What are impact fees??

[Rainger99]

There is an article in today's paper about impact taxes going up 150%. I have never heard the term before but I did some research and they appear to be an assessment for infrastructure.

Southern residents voice concerns about tax increase | In Today's Daily Sun | The Villages Daily Sun | thevillagesdailysun.com (https://www.thevillagesdailysun.com/news/in_todays_daily_sun/southern-residents-voice-concerns-about-tax-increase/article_5adbc12c-5ecb-11ec-ac60-7b6c545d5b67.html)

Are they the same as the bond? According to the following article, the impact fee for a 1,400–1,999-square-foot home in Palm Beach County is $12,469.43

How impact fees work in Florida and what changes under the new law | Palm Beach Roofing Press (https://palmbeachroofingpress.com/how-impact-fees-work-in-florida-and-what-changes-under-the-new-law/)

However, I also read that a law that was passed this summer limits impact fees. As of June 4, 2021, jurisdictions can only increase impact fees once every four years in the following manner: Increases between 25 to 50 percent must be spread over four years, while smaller increases would be implemented in two equal installments.

If that is the case, how can Sumter be increasing them by up to 150%??

[Bogie Shooter]

////// had to cancel. Don’t want anymore demirits!

[golfing eagles]

What are impact fees??

Well, they are NOT something that requires the same post in triplicate

Oops, now it's quadruplicate:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[villagetinker]

Go to the top of this page, click on SEARCH, enter Impcat fees and read lots of previous posts.

[ElDiabloJoe]

////// had to cancel. Don’t want anymore demirits!
:1rotfl:

Think you meant demerits.

[Bill14564]

Interesting. Will have to wait for the BOCC minutes to be posted to see if this is a new proposal or if the paper is regurgitating old information that has already been OBE.

[DAVES]

There is an article in today's paper about impact taxes going up 150%. I have never heard the term before but I did some research and they appear to be an assessment for infrastructure.

Southern residents voice concerns about tax increase | In Today's Daily Sun | The Villages Daily Sun | thevillagesdailysun.com (https://www.thevillagesdailysun.com/news/in_todays_daily_sun/southern-residents-voice-concerns-about-tax-increase/article_5adbc12c-5ecb-11ec-ac60-7b6c545d5b67.html)

Are they the same as the bond? According to the following article, the impact fee for a 1,400–1,999-square-foot home in Palm Beach County is $12,469.43

How impact fees work in Florida and what changes under the new law | Palm Beach Roofing Press (https://palmbeachroofingpress.com/how-impact-fees-work-in-florida-and-what-changes-under-the-new-law/)

However, I also read that a law that was passed this summer limits impact fees. As of June 4, 2021, jurisdictions can only increase impact fees once every four years in the following manner: Increases between 25 to 50 percent must be spread over four years, while smaller increases would be implemented in two equal installments.

If that is the case, how can Sumter be increasing them by up to 150%??

Nothing is new. Everyone wants but have creative ideas why someone, anyone but them should pay. It has always been and always will be so.

[EdFNJ]

Go to the top of this page, click on SEARCH, enter Impcat fees and read lots of previous posts.

Impcats are running free on the streets. They're small but don't feed them as they multiply quickly.

[tophcfa]

I’ll give you two answers. They are fees necessary to pay for infrastructure that is required because of new development. They are fees that create great divide regarding who should rightfully be required to pay them.

[champion6]

There is an article in today's paper about impact taxes going up 150%. I have never heard the term before but I did some research and they appear to be an assessment for infrastructure.

Southern residents voice concerns about tax increase | In Today's Daily Sun | The Villages Daily Sun | thevillagesdailysun.com (https://www.thevillagesdailysun.com/news/in_todays_daily_sun/southern-residents-voice-concerns-about-tax-increase/article_5adbc12c-5ecb-11ec-ac60-7b6c545d5b67.html)

Are they the same as the bond? According to the following article, the impact fee for a 1,400–1,999-square-foot home in Palm Beach County is $12,469.43

How impact fees work in Florida and what changes under the new law | Palm Beach Roofing Press (https://palmbeachroofingpress.com/how-impact-fees-work-in-florida-and-what-changes-under-the-new-law/)

However, I also read that a law that was passed this summer limits impact fees. As of June 4, 2021, jurisdictions can only increase impact fees once every four years in the following manner: Increases between 25 to 50 percent must be spread over four years, while smaller increases would be implemented in two equal installments.

If that is the case, how can Sumter be increasing them by up to 150%??I believe this article was published in the Daily Sun in 2020, not 2021 as noted at the top of the article. It absolutely doesn't appear in the printed versions of the DS on Dec 16 or 17.

[Bilyclub]

Seems the Sun has started pushing candidates for the Sumter County Board. This Billardello guy has trying to get his name out there, but he appears to be the developer's guy in the story.

[Bogie Shooter]

Here we go…….:popcorn:


The bait is tossed out.

[dewilson58]

Go to the top of this page, click on SEARCH, enter Impcat fees and read lots of previous posts.

Agree.................The Bait is out.

Tink has a great suggestion.

The OP could go to the County for a complete understanding.

Otherwise :popcorn:

[Papa_lecki]

Does anyone know anything about reverse mortgages?

[Bogie Shooter]

Does anyone know anything about reverse mortgages?

I think it was mentioned on the “Gate Strikes “ thread.:ho:

[Bilyclub]

I'm sorta glad the OP pointed this out. There has to be a pretty devious reason for the Sun to rehash this so soon after the two got locked up.

[thevillages2013]

////// had to cancel. Don’t want anymore demirits!

I feel you! Skating on thin ice myself :boxing2:

[DaleDivine]

I think it was mentioned on the “Gate Strikes “ thread.:ho:

Dannngggg, I thought it was in the "DOG POOP" thread...
:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[dewilson58]

////// had to cancel. Don’t want anymore demirits!

How long do nasty points last???

[Bogie Shooter]

How long do nasty points last???

:shrug:

[Topspinmo]

Sum it up one of several ways to bleed residents.

[COLTempleton]

Yes, but they're impish (thus the name) and can be caught easily.

[chenault55]

Agree.................The Bait is out.

Tink has a great suggestion.

The OP could go to the County for a complete understanding.

Otherwise :popcorn:

Does the OP I see a lot here mean old people or something else?

[tophcfa]

Does the OP I see a lot here mean old people or something else?

LOL, it means original poster, but old person would also be appropriate.

[dewilson58]

Does the OP I see a lot here mean old people or something else?

OPOP means Old Person Old Poster.

:1rotfl:

[jarodrig]

Does anyone know anything about reverse mortgages?

Yes ! I’m interested in a RM !

Where can I find info about this ?? LOL 😂

[kappy]

If you want to know how not collecting the appropriate impact fees caused Sumter County taxes to go up 25.5% in 2019 see Scott Fenstermaker - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQiReUkH_V4).
If you want to learn what impact fees are go to FlaglerLive.com and look for, “Impact Fees: What They Are, Who Pays Them, How Much They Pay.”

[Ptmckiou]

To answer your question…..new commercial development. The answer was in the first paragraph of the article.

[Altavia]

Impact fees are not necessary when building 5,000 new homes adding more that one billion in taxable real estate to the base every year.

In addition the developer provides the bonus of a new state of the art charter education facility with staff at no charge to the county.

[tophcfa]

How long do nasty points last???

As long as the moderator deems it to be so, sometimes forever.

[ScottFenstermaker]

Impact fees are not necessary when building 5,000 new homes adding more that one billion in taxable real estate to the base every year.

In addition the developer provides the bonus of a new state of the art charter education facility with staff at no charge to the county.

Our 25% property-tax increase, enacted to protect the Developer's sweetheart impact fee, disproves that nonsense. BTW, charter schools are paid for with tax dollars, just like public schools.

[JMintzer]

Our 25% property-tax increase, enacted to protect the Developer's sweetheart impact fee, disproves that nonsense. BTW, charter schools are paid for with tax dollars, just like public schools.

The new charter schools being built are being paid for by The Developer, not your tax $$$...

[Kenswing]

Our 25% property-tax increase, enacted to protect the Developer's sweetheart impact fee, disproves that nonsense. BTW, charter schools are paid for with tax dollars, just like public schools.
Hey look! It's the Avacado reincarnated..

The Developer is building the schools but get education funding just like any other public school.

Charter Schools (https://www.floridacharterschools.org/?gclid=Cj0KCQiA8ICOBhDmARIsAEGI6o2AharyHHplLpFluMe 8d16uOg1nfFw5nMT1_JI2RzkOeGvGPRo9XYgaAgqZEALw_wcB)

[Altavia]

Hey look! It's the Avacado reincarnated..

The Developer is building the schools but get education funding just like any other public school.

Charter Schools (https://www.floridacharterschools.org/?gclid=Cj0KCQiA8ICOBhDmARIsAEGI6o2AharyHHplLpFluMe 8d16uOg1nfFw5nMT1_JI2RzkOeGvGPRo9XYgaAgqZEALw_wcB)

Very interesting and thanks for the clarification.

I think it's safe to say thanks to the development, residents of The Villages are a primary source of funding to education in the county.

[ScottFenstermaker]

The new charter schools being built are being paid for by The Developer, not your tax $$$...

I know that they are built and INITIALLY paid for by the Developer, but once up and running, the charter schools will be receiving our tax dollars in an amount adequate to cover the amortized (technically depreciated) original building costs. Those dollars are siphoned away from dollars that would otherwise go to Wildwood public schools. Although I agree with you that The Villages charter schools are state of the art and exceptionally well run, they are not a gift from the Developer.

[golfing eagles]

I know that they are built and INITIALLY paid for by the Developer, but once up and running, the charter schools will be receiving our tax dollars in an amount adequate to cover the amortized (technically depreciated) original building costs. Those dollars are siphoned away from dollars that would otherwise go to Wildwood public schools. Although I agree with you that The Villages charter schools are state of the art and exceptionally well run, they are not a gift from the Developer.

Welcome back, avocado. Glad to see you didn't change your tagline of "the developer's sweetheart impact fee deal":1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Bogie Shooter]

Welcome back, avocado. Glad to see you didn't change your tagline of "the developer's sweetheart impact fee deal":1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Are we going to have to go thru all of that again?:a040:

[Dana1963]

There is an article in today's paper about impact taxes going up 150%. I have never heard the term before but I did some research and they appear to be an assessment for infrastructure.

Southern residents voice concerns about tax increase | In Today's Daily Sun | The Villages Daily Sun | thevillagesdailysun.com (https://www.thevillagesdailysun.com/news/in_todays_daily_sun/southern-residents-voice-concerns-about-tax-increase/article_5adbc12c-5ecb-11ec-ac60-7b6c545d5b67.html)

Are they the same as the bond? According to the following article, the impact fee for a 1,400–1,999-square-foot home in Palm Beach County is $12,469.43

How impact fees work in Florida and what changes under the new law | Palm Beach Roofing Press (https://palmbeachroofingpress.com/how-impact-fees-work-in-florida-and-what-changes-under-the-new-law/)

However, I also read that a law that was passed this summer limits impact fees. As of June 4, 2021, jurisdictions can only increase impact fees once every four years in the following manner: Increases between 25 to 50 percent must be spread over four years, while smaller increases would be implemented in two equal installments.

If that is the case, how can Sumter be increasing them by up to 150%??
If it came from the Daily Sun developer owned newspaper.
Thought this was a settled matter when Gov DeSantis signed controversial bill in June.

[Altavia]

///

[ScottFenstermaker]

Welcome back, avocado. Glad to see you didn't change your tagline of "the developer's sweetheart impact fee deal":1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

You are right. The sweetheart impact fee remains in place, our massive tax hike that subsidizes it does as well, and many residents are oblivious as to what is going on. Only now the ante has been raised, with the arrest of two of the Commissioners who pledged to increase the fee and roll back the tax increase.

Although all the facts are not yet publicly available, the arrests appear to be the result of a carefully orchestrated perjury trap set up to enable the two Commissioners to be removed from office and replaced with subs who are friendly to the Developer. I know both Search and Miller and would be amazed if either one actually committed perjury-- although the Daily Sun seems intent on convicting them in the court of public opinion.

[Bogie Shooter]

New conspiracy theory is introduced for debate…………

[dewilson58]

New conspiracy theory is introduced for debate…………

I'm walking around with aluminum foil on my head.

[golfing eagles]

You are right. The sweetheart impact fee remains in place, our massive tax hike that subsidizes it does as well, and many residents are oblivious as to what is going on. Only now the ante has been raised, with the arrest of two of the Commissioners who pledged to increase the fee and roll back the tax increase.

Although all the facts are not yet publicly available, the arrests appear to be the result of a carefully orchestrated perjury trap set up to enable the two Commissioners to be removed from office and replaced with subs who are friendly to the Developer. I know both Search and Miller and would be amazed if either one actually committed perjury-- although the Daily Sun seems intent on convicting them in the court of public opinion.

New user name

Same old agenda:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[ScottFenstermaker]

New user name

Same old agenda:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

You are right. My agenda is, and always has been, trying to clean up the cesspool that existed for years at the Developer-controlled County Commission to the detriment of the residents.

But I am not the issue here. How about sticking to it?

[Kenswing]

You are right. My agenda is, and always has been, trying to clean up the cesspool that existed for years at the Developer-controlled County Commission to the detriment of the residents.

But I am not the issue here. How about sticking to it?

Now's your chance. Maybe you can run for one of the two soon to be open Council seats. Then you can be the Sweetheart Deal Killer.

[ScottFenstermaker]

Now's your chance. Maybe you can run for one of the two soon to be open Council seats. Then you can be the Sweetheart Deal Killer.

I have no political ambitions and don't live in either Gilpin's or Breeden's district. Hopefully Republican challengers, who are independent of the Developer, will emerge before the next primary.

[Topspinmo]

The new charter schools being built are being paid for by The Developer, not your tax $$$...

But, it will collect tax dollars which will pay for it 10 fold.

[Topspinmo]

Are we going to have to go thru all of that again?:a040:

Why——not.

[triflex]

I read that article too. I came from a County on the Coast in FL with impact fees raised for sewer.

Think of it like this: You own a Yugo (old poor Sumter County) and you decide to buy a Ferrari (new Sumter County that isn't a poverty palace). Then the County decides to charge you 150% in impact fees for buying the Ferrari. You decide not to buy the Ferrari. Now you and the County have nothing but what was already there. You have to PAY the impact fee before you even GET that car. However if the impact fee isn't there then improvements can be taxed or paid over time (like the Bond we pay which is basically a loan we got without even having to qualify for it) .

In my old County (Brevard) I was in a new house on sewer. Other new houses literally next door were being built and required an impact fee for sewer. All of the new houses sought an exemption and requested to put in septic tanks or they wouldn't build. The County, instead of granting an impact fee waiver, allowed septic tanks two doors down from the sewer system. Not one new house in area was added to the sewer system in the three years I was there - all of them installed septic systems. Why? Impact fees were between $20k & $35k and homeowners and builders refused to build without the septic tank being waived in.

Local governments become filled with people who just want to get to retirement and get a pension. From my experience, you start seeing a lot of fat guys in County pickup trucks who cannot wait for lunch to roll around. Nothing of substance gets done.

The Developer is WAAAAAAY better than what seems to be shaping up on the Sumter County Commissioners Board or other counties.

There is an article in today's paper about impact taxes going up 150%. I have never heard the term before but I did some research and they appear to be an assessment for infrastructure.

Southern residents voice concerns about tax increase | In Today's Daily Sun | The Villages Daily Sun | thevillagesdailysun.com (https://www.thevillagesdailysun.com/news/in_todays_daily_sun/southern-residents-voice-concerns-about-tax-increase/article_5adbc12c-5ecb-11ec-ac60-7b6c545d5b67.html)

Are they the same as the bond? According to the following article, the impact fee for a 1,400–1,999-square-foot home in Palm Beach County is $12,469.43

How impact fees work in Florida and what changes under the new law | Palm Beach Roofing Press (https://palmbeachroofingpress.com/how-impact-fees-work-in-florida-and-what-changes-under-the-new-law/)

However, I also read that a law that was passed this summer limits impact fees. As of June 4, 2021, jurisdictions can only increase impact fees once every four years in the following manner: Increases between 25 to 50 percent must be spread over four years, while smaller increases would be implemented in two equal installments.

If that is the case, how can Sumter be increasing them by up to 150%??

[golfing eagles]

I have no political ambitions and don't live in either Gilpin's or Breeden's district. Hopefully Republican challengers, who are independent of the Developer, will emerge before the next primary.

Too bad. If you would be just as entertaining on the County Commission as you are on TOTV, I'd certainly vote for you:)

[Altavia]

The Developer is WAAAAAAY better than what seems to be shaping up on the Sumter County Commissioners Board or other counties.

Exactly, looking beyond the Villages boarders shows what this atea would need like without competent long term planned development.

The impact fee fiasco illustrates what it would have taken to get county approval for the bonds to build the charter school education complex?l.

It is a company town and that's a major reason I retired here.

[CWGUY]

Exactly, looking beyond the Villages boarders shows what this atea would need like without competent long term planned development.

The impact fee fiasco illustrates what it would have taken to get county approval for the bonds to build the charter school education complex?l.

It is a company town and that's a major reason I retired here.

:ho: Thank you. Exactly how we feel. We like clean, we like rules, we like order, and mostly we like how the Morse family does things. We wonder if some of the complainers moved here because they didn't like the way things were done and figured they could spend what ever time they had left just bitching about things and it would make their days seem longer because they were sooooo unhappy.
I may not be a retired lawyer like Mr.Fenstermaker...... but I know my taxes are lower now compared to my first years here. After 17 years full time I have no complaints. :coolsmiley:

[tophcfa]

I have no political ambitions and don't live in either Gilpin's or Breeden's district. Hopefully Republican challengers, who are independent of the Developer, will emerge before the next primary.

Don’t hold your breath waiting for what you’re hoping for. After watching the new commissioners get repeatedly slandered, strong armed, accused of crimes, and having their lives generally made miserable, who in their right mind would want to follow in their footsteps. Mission accomplished, the emperor has spoken!

[Bogie Shooter]

//////

[ScottFenstermaker]

Don’t hold your breath waiting for what you’re hoping for. After watching the new commissioners get repeatedly slandered, strong armed, accused of crimes, and having their lives generally made miserable, who in their right mind would want to follow in their footsteps. Mission accomplished, the emperor has spoken!

I am afraid you may be right.

[Bilyclub]

I read that article too. I came from a County on the Coast in FL with impact fees raised for sewer.

Think of it like this: You own a Yugo (old poor Sumter County) and you decide to buy a Ferrari (new Sumter County that isn't a poverty palace). Then the County decides to charge you 150% in impact fees for buying the Ferrari. You decide not to buy the Ferrari. Now you and the County have nothing but what was already there. You have to PAY the impact fee before you even GET that car. However if the impact fee isn't there then improvements can be taxed or paid over time (like the Bond we pay which is basically a loan we got without even having to qualify for it) .

In my old County (Brevard) I was in a new house on sewer. Other new houses literally next door were being built and required an impact fee for sewer. All of the new houses sought an exemption and requested to put in septic tanks or they wouldn't build. The County, instead of granting an impact fee waiver, allowed septic tanks two doors down from the sewer system. Not one new house in area was added to the sewer system in the three years I was there - all of them installed septic systems. Why? Impact fees were between $20k & $35k and homeowners and builders refused to build without the septic tank being waived in.

Local governments become filled with people who just want to get to retirement and get a pension. From my experience, you start seeing a lot of fat guys in County pickup trucks who cannot wait for lunch to roll around. Nothing of substance gets done.

The Developer is WAAAAAAY better than what seems to be shaping up on the Sumter County Commissioners Board or other counties.

Welcome to TOTY. We got high bonds and a big property tax hike. It was about the developer and the prior commissioners raising property taxes to pay for the roads in the developers new project South of 44.

[ScottFenstermaker]

Welcome to TOTY. We got high bonds and a big property tax hike. It was about the developer and the prior commissioners raising property taxes to pay for the roads in the developers new project South of 44.

Most people don't realize that the issue is not just new county roads. The Developer pays for 40% of his county roads and zero percent for his other county infrastructure like libraries, police and fire stations and equipment, government buildings and equipment, and jail expansion. This is why he wants to maintain control of the County Commission.

[Bill14564]

Most people don't realize that the issue is not just new county roads. The Developer pays for 40% of his county roads and zero percent for his other county infrastructure like libraries, police and fire stations and equipment, government buildings and equipment, and jail expansion. This is why he wants to maintain control of the County Commission.

I believe that is 40% of the maximum justifiable charge, which doesn't necessarily equate to actual cost.

Can road impact fees be legally spent on any of the things you mention? And are you sure the developer didn't build the Villages fire stations (that's an honest question, I don't know).

Not saying the developer isn't getting a good deal, they are, but Sumter County and Wildwood are definitely benefiting also. They benefit directly from the increasing number of tax payers and indirectly from the increasing number of customers in local businesses. Everybody seems to be winning at the moment.

[Northwoods]

Most people don't realize that the issue is not just new county roads. The Developer pays for 40% of his county roads and zero percent for his other county infrastructure like libraries, police and fire stations and equipment, government buildings and equipment, and jail expansion. This is why he wants to maintain control of the County Commission.

I believe The Developer builds the Fire Stations and then turns them over to the district for $0. The only stipulation is that they must remain a fire station.
Goldwingnut has stated this numerous times.

[Altavia]

I believe that is 40% of the maximum justifiable charge, which doesn't necessarily equate to actual cost.

Can road impact fees be legally spent on any of the things you mention? And are you sure the developer didn't build the Villages fire stations (that's an honest question, I don't know).

Not saying the developer isn't getting a good deal, they are, but Sumter County and Wildwood are definitely benefiting also. They benefit directly from the increasing number of tax payers and indirectly from the increasing number of customers in local businesses. Everybody seems to be winning at the moment.

I'd like to see the planning for how the county will manage the incremental property taxes the county will collect as a result of expansion.

The following model is very conservative considering the current higher rate of construction and increase in average sell price of new homes.

Estimate they're closer to 5,000 homes per year@ $350K+ sell price currently. At that rate, the county will collect over $100M in incremental tax revenue before the roads completed the next 5 years

[Bogie Shooter]

I'd like to see the planning for how the county will manage the incremental property taxes the county will collect as a result of expansion.

The following model is very conservative considering the current higher rate of construction and increase in average sell price of new homes.

Estimate they're closer to 5,000 homes per year@ $350K+ sell price currently. At that rate, the county will collect over $100M in incremental tax revenue before the roads completed the next 5 years

This is a difficult question for the current commissioners…………this would require future planning.

[dewilson58]

I believe The Developer builds the Fire Stations and then turns them over to the district for $0.

Very True..........some posters just post crap and lies.

[PugMom]

complain all you like, it's still way cheaper than the northern state from which you came. everybody happy :)

[Bilyclub]

complain all you like, it's still way cheaper than the northern state from which you came. everybody happy :)

There's nothing wrong with a healthy discussion about things that affect everybody's bottom line. If you include the bond and that groceries and contractors are more expensive it's a dead heat.

[dewilson58]

If you include the bond and that groceries and contractors are more expensive it's a dead heat.

Not Even Close.

This will help you.

Cost Of Living Comparison (https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/comparison.jsp)

[JMintzer]

Not Even Close.

This will help you.

Cost Of Living Comparison (https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/comparison.jsp)

Other than a few groceries, imported beer and leatheriness shoes, TV is about 25-50% cheaper than where I currently live...

[Bogie Shooter]

Other than a few groceries, imported beer and leatheriness shoes, TV is about 25-50% cheaper than where I currently live...

You don’t live in TV?

[ScottFenstermaker]

Seems the Sun has started pushing candidates for the Sumter County Board. This Billardello guy has trying to get his name out there, but he appears to be the developer's guy in the story.

The Developer's Daily Sun is certainly continuing its unrelenting attack on Commissioners Estep, Miller and Search, who were elected to increase the Developer's sweetheart impact fee and roll back our 25% property-tax increase. That increase was enacted by the predecessors of Estep, Miller, and Search in order to subsidize the Developer's sweetheart impact fee-- which is about 5% of what he would pay in Collier County.

[Bill14564]

The Developer's Daily Sun is certainly continuing its unrelenting attack on Commissioners Estep, Miller and Search, who were elected to increase the Developer's sweetheart impact fee and roll back our 25% property-tax increase. That increase was enacted by the predecessors of Estep, Miller, and Search in order to subsidize the Developer's sweetheart impact fee-- which is about 5% of what he would pay in Collier County.

Which might explain why the Villages are primarily in Sumter County and not Collier County. Since I prefer being here rather than on the coast this has worked out well for me.

By the way, you neglected to work the words "massive" and "puppet" into your post.

[JMintzer]

You don’t live in TV?

Not yet full time. We're still "Snowflakes" (we come and go as often as possible), but I'm still working on my exit strategy so I can become a "Frog"...

I should have posted "currently live, most of the time"... I'm working on selling my practice and then we'll sell the house here (just outside DC, in Maryland) and y'all can enjoy my presence full time! LOL!

[ScottFenstermaker]

Which might explain why the Villages are primarily in Sumter County and not Collier County. Since I prefer being here rather than on the coast this has worked out well for me.

By the way, you neglected to work the words "massive" and "puppet" into your post.

If you are okay with subsidizing the Developer's business with your property-tax dollars, I can't argue with you.

By the way, do you really think that the Developer's massive expansion of The Villages, which was facilitated by his puppet Commissioners and is being subsidized by the current residents, is good for the current residents? :icon_wink:

[ScottFenstermaker]

I believe The Developer builds the Fire Stations and then turns them over to the district for $0. The only stipulation is that they must remain a fire station.
Goldwingnut has stated this numerous times.

Are you sure about that? Aren't they sold to the district along with the rest of the district infrastructure? Have you found a deed where they are conveyed free of charge?

[Altavia]

If you are okay with subsidizing the Developer's business with your property-tax dollars, I can't argue with you.



Those fees are passed on to new home buyers.

With the more than 50% increases in home costs the past year, are you OK with new home buyers paying close to double what you are paying in property taxes for the same home? And you want to tax them even more for the privilege to do so?

[ScottFenstermaker]

No, the houses are now priced at the highest level that market conditions will allow. Businesses cannot simply pass all their costs on to buyers, otherwise no business would go bankrupt, especially if the costs are not incurred by all the the business's competitors.

Yes, housing prices would increase to some extent, and I am perfectly fine with that. Then the new residents AND the Developer, who are responsible for the new county infrastructure, would be paying for it, instead of us current residents. Remember, with the new-home buyers no longer paying for the Developer's subsequent county infrastructure through higher property taxes, they would recoup some or all of the higher home price. Better yet, the value of the houses of the current residents would increase correspondingly.

I know this is complicated, but think: If the Developer could simply pass on 100% of higher impact fees and not take a profit hit, do you seriously think he would have paid Hage $350,000.14 and would have fought so hard to keep his Commission puppets in office?

BTW, what makes you think that home prices around here went up 50% in the past year??

[dewilson58]

:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Love You Guacamole, Love ya.

:cryin2::cryin2::cryin2:

[Bill14564]

...
I know this is complicated, but think: If the Developer could simply pass on 100% of higher impact fees and not take a profit hit, do you seriously think he would have paid Hage $350,000.14 and would have fought so hard to keep his Commission puppets in office?

...


But the developer cannot pass 100% of the higher impact fees on to the buyer. What seems to be frequently disregarded is the impact fees apply to not only to the construction of homes but also to the construction of commercial property.

The additional cost to the home might be about $1,500 which could easily be added to the price of a home in the Villages. Heck, between inflation, the bond, and various state fees and taxes, $4,000 would be lost in the noise.

Commercial property is a different story. There are threads on here asking when a BJs or Costco or whatever might be coming to the area. According to one of the documents analyzing the 2019 study, increasing the impact fee would add $500,000 to the cost of the building for a total of $835,000 in impact fees. A hospital would incur about $1,000,000 in additional impact fees.

While $1,500 might not affect the sale of a home, an additional $500,000 is very likely to affect the profitability of the Costco and may result in it not being built in the first place (not that it seems to be coming soon anyway). I appreciate having businesses and hospitals either in or close to the Villages. I would like lower taxes too, but if an extra $300 per year maintains the lifestyle I enjoy then yes, I am willing to pay it.

[Bogie Shooter]

:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Love You Guacamole, Love ya.

:cryin2::cryin2::cryin2:

:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[golfing eagles]

If you are okay with subsidizing the Developer's business with your property-tax dollars, I can't argue with you.

By the way, do you really think that the Developer's massive expansion of The Villages, which was facilitated by his puppet Commissioners and is being subsidized by the current residents, is good for the current residents? :icon_wink:

Yes

[ScottFenstermaker]

But the developer cannot pass 100% of the higher impact fees on to the buyer. What seems to be frequently disregarded is the impact fees apply to not only to the construction of homes but also to the construction of commercial property.

The additional cost to the home might be about $1,500 which could easily be added to the price of a home in the Villages. Heck, between inflation, the bond, and various state fees and taxes, $4,000 would be lost in the noise.

Commercial property is a different story. There are threads on here asking when a BJs or Costco or whatever might be coming to the area. According to one of the documents analyzing the 2019 study, increasing the impact fee would add $500,000 to the cost of the building for a total of $835,000 in impact fees. A hospital would incur about $1,000,000 in additional impact fees.

While $1,500 might not affect the sale of a home, an additional $500,000 is very likely to affect the profitability of the Costco and may result in it not being built in the first place (not that it seems to be coming soon anyway). I appreciate having businesses and hospitals either in or close to the Villages. I would like lower taxes too, but if an extra $300 per year maintains the lifestyle I enjoy then yes, I am willing to pay it.



How did you calculate $500,000? We don't know what the commercial properties would pay without an impact study, which Hage's legislation essentially blocks.

In any event, you are correct that new commercial property would be initially somewhat more expensive, but the businesses occupying it would subsequently pay less in property taxes.

Bottom line: somebody has to pay for the new county infrastructure, and I argue that that somebody should be the developers and new residents-- not us current residents. The 25% property-tax increase shows clearly what is going on here-- which is the current residents subsidizing the Developer-- it is he who is doing virtually all the new building. That is what the voters of Sumter County decided, by a 2-to-1 margin, in last year's County Commission election.

As I have said elsewhere, if you don't mind, in essence, writing a check each year to the Developer in the amount of your tax increase, I can't argue with you over property taxes and impact fees. However, I don't think higher impact fees, combined with lower property taxes, would slow growth-- it would just reallocate the costs thereof.

[Bill14564]

How did you calculate $500,000? We don't know what the commercial properties would pay without an impact study, which Hage's legislation essentially blocks.

In any event, you are correct that new commercial property would be initially somewhat more expensive, but the businesses occupying it would subsequently pay less in property taxes.

Bottom line: somebody has to pay for the new county infrastructure, and I argue that that somebody should be the developers and new residents-- not us current residents. The 25% property-tax increase shows clearly what is going on here-- which is the current residents subsidizing the Developer-- it is he who is doing virtually all the new building. That is what the voters of Sumter County decided, by a 2-to-1 margin, in last year's County Commission election.

As I have said elsewhere, if you don't mind, in essence, writing a check each year to the Developer in the amount of your tax increase, I can't argue with you over property taxes and impact fees. However, I don't think higher impact fees, combined with lower property taxes, would slow growth-- it would just reallocate the costs thereof.

I'm surprised you don't have that information. What are you basing your comments on if you haven't reviewed the impact fee documentation?

There are two sources for the $500,000 number though in the end they both come down to the same 2019 Impact Fee Study.

1. The Sumter County Impact Fee Schedule (https://www.sumtercountyfl.gov/1242/Impact-Fees) shows $3,356 per 1,000 sq ft for a Discount Club. Assuming a 100,000 sq ft Costco, that comes to $335,600. If we assume your 40% number is correct, at 100% it would come to a total of $839,000 or about $500,000 in additional fees.

2. There were several documents created in conjunction with the 2019 Impact Fee Study. One of those documents is a comparison of current fees at 40%, fees at 100%, and fees from several surrounding counties. The 40% and 100% numbers match the $335,600 and $839,000 numbers and therefore the $500,000 in additional fees.

I don't have the background to argue whether $500,00 in additional fees would keep Costco from coming here or whether $1,000,000 in additional fees would stop a hospital project. But until someone with the background cares to comment, I'll believe that those numbers are large enough to cause second thoughts and slow growth.

[ScottFenstermaker]

I'm surprised you don't have that information. What are you basing your comments on if you haven't reviewed the impact fee documentation?

There are two sources for the $500,000 number though in the end they both come down to the same 2019 Impact Fee Study.

1. The Sumter County Impact Fee Schedule (https://www.sumtercountyfl.gov/1242/Impact-Fees) shows $3,356 per 1,000 sq ft for a Discount Club. Assuming a 100,000 sq ft Costco, that comes to $335,600. If we assume your 40% number is correct, at 100% it would come to a total of $839,000 or about $500,000 in additional fees.

2. There were several documents created in conjunction with the 2019 Impact Fee Study. One of those documents is a comparison of current fees at 40%, fees at 100%, and fees from several surrounding counties. The 40% and 100% numbers match the $335,600 and $839,000 numbers and therefore the $500,000 in additional fees.



I don't have the background to argue whether $500,00 in additional fees would keep Costco from coming here or whether $1,000,000 in additional fees would stop a hospital project. But until someone with the background cares to comment, I'll believe that those numbers are large enough to cause second thoughts and slow growth.

You brought up the figure, so I presumed you had the calculation easily at hand. I, obviously, did not.

Anyway: Initial building costs are depreciated and deducted from income taxes over the life of the building, say 30 years. Accepting your figure of $500,000, dividing it by 30 = a tax-deducible cost of $16,667 per year. Offsetting that would be lower property taxes. Do you seriously believe that net amount is going to deter Costco from building? I have reviewed hundreds of business plans. Let me assure you, it would not.

BTW, it is my understanding that the hospital does not pay property taxes. Having it located just on the other side of the county line with the ancillary, tax-paying buildings on our side is a blessing for Sumter County residents.