What is your perception of Gary Morse?

[graciegirl]

The Morse's are not seen often here in person, in fact almost NEVER ,so people have to guess what they are really, really like and what they are up to.

I think Gary Morse is in his 60's, a very good business man and a perfectionist. I think I would like him if I knew him personally.

Can't wait to see what you have to say.

[dfn8tly]

I believe that Gary Morse is a brilliant business man and a very private person. The family has several large homes here along C.R. 466 and is more integrated into the community than you might think. I know some of the grandchildren hold rather minimal jobs in banks, restaurants, etc. They don't advertise who they are but their parents want to be sure they have a strong work ethic. Also, Gary's sisters are quite prominent heads of departments as well. It's a very wealthy but also very hard working family.

[jebartle]

that ONE family gave us this glorious place.....

[dfn8tly]

My apologies, Gracie. Most of my comments above were actually about MARK Morse. I do not withdraw my statement about Gary Morse being a brilliant business man. Certainly he has now turned most of the daily operations over to his children and is a reclusive man. The fact is he could walk around the streets of TV and 99.9% of the people wouldn't know who he was and maybe he does. I'm sure no one expects him to wear a name tag "HELLO, my name is GARY MORSE".

[sandybill2]

that ONE family gave us this glorious place.....


My husband and I agree completely.

[red tail]

that ONE family gave us this glorious place.....

ill give em this....10 years ago if someone told me i would spend a quarter of a million dollars on a a two bedroom place with people all over the place i would have told them they are crazy! and now here i am.

[2BNTV]

My impression is that he is a brilliant business man. You have to be a visionary to build a place like TV that has everything a person could want. The Morse family still works at making TV better.

Anyone that has built a place like TV is going to have some people that don't agree with certain things. There are other people who will say , "there is no place like the TV".

I was blown away by beauty of TV on my first visit and still smiiten with TV on my second visit. It is as close to heaven as I can imagine.

I for one, can't wait to move to paradise.

[Russ_Boston]

Who's Gary Morse? :)

[Ajack]

Who's Gary Morse? :)

:D I often wonder if he might be walking around incognito and I have already said "hi" to him. I know if I had the wisdom and vision to build such a place, it would be fun to walk around and observe the results.

[ncr2482]

How about giving most of the credit to the old man Harold Schwartz? He was the visionary who started this place. The family has done a great job of continuing his legacy.

[LuvItHere]

Don't know much about Morse, but I admire and respect him and the family for building TV instead of something like this, below, that is only for people who have so much money they don't know what else to do with it.

The Villages is within reach of anyone who works for a living and lives within their means.

"Virgin Galactic's Sir Richard Branson, New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson and prospective astronauts gathered in the southern New Mexico desert Friday to celebrate the completion of the runway at the world's first purpose-built commercial spaceport.

Virgin Galactic is the anchor tenant of the taxpayer-funded spaceport and plans to use the facility to take tourists on what will first be short hops into space. . . .

Tickets for suborbital space rides aboard SpaceShipTwo cost $200,000. The 2½-hour flights will include about five minutes of weightlessness. Some 380 customers have already made deposits totaling more than $50 million, Virgin Galactic officials said Friday.

http://www.lcsun-news.com/ci_16407579

[Russ_Boston]

How about giving most of the credit to the old man Harold Schwartz? He was the visionary who started this place. The family has done a great job of continuing his legacy.

Agree. But those that came after Harold certainly made TV even better by following a strict master planned community template. It is this template that lured me to TV.

[kentucky blue]

Who's Gary Morse? :)

Can't believe you don't know who Gary Morse is !!!!????!!! Gary is the owner of Gary Morse House Of Flowers, in Hopkinsville, Kentucky, takes Visa and Master Card, also sells balloons.Remember ladies,when a man brings you flowers for no reason.......................there's a reason:icon_wink:!!!!!!!!!!

[2BNTV]

ncr2482
Member Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Belvedere
Posts: 51

Morse family

How about giving most of the credit to the old man Harold Schwartz? He was the visionary who started this place. The family has done a great job of continuing his legacy.

ncr2482:

I meant to mention that fact in my post. It was Harold Schwartz vision but I was trying to say that Gary continued it by expanding it and continued to make it better.

I don't have the information at my fingertips but I remember reading somewhere, there was another partner with Harold Schwartz. I don't remember his name off the top of my head but he was bought out by Harold.

Sorry for the oversight.

[Ajack]

How about giving most of the credit to the old man Harold Schwartz? He was the visionary who started this place. The family has done a great job of continuing his legacy.

Well, he had enough vision to hire his son. ( Who I think was an advertising executive) :)

[redwitch]

I truly admire the business acumen of the Morse family. TV is an amazing place and I will be eternally grateful to Mr. Schwartz for conceiving of it, Gary Morse for enlarging the vision and Mark Morse for continuing the legacy.

All of that being said, I still stand by my opinion that the Morse family is greedy. They nickel and dime TVers, especially newbies who know no better. A couple of examples: When Empty Nest was run by the developer (i.e., the Morse family), they charged $3.50 a day to check a home once a week. This fee was outrageous. They have now sold that portion of their services (or so it is claimed, although I'm not entirely convinced -- if you go through enough corporate records, you will find it is still a subsidiary of the Morses and still charges higher rates than the norm). The Villages Golf Carts is owned by the Morses -- their carts are priced higher than anywhere else around here; their rental fees are higher than anyone around here (and for a lesser, slower cart). They charge businesses a little higher sales (not profit, SALES) rate than the majority of malls in the U.S. and there is no negotiating that fee. They could easily put their fees in line with those of other businesses in and around TV but have no need to do so -- people will use their services and products because they know no better or have no choice if they want to do business in TV.

So, I thank Mr. Schwartz and the Morses for their visions and willingness to put their livelihood on the line in building TV and making it what it is today. I also do my best to not do business in a Morse-owned property (direct ownership or via a subsidiary). I can usually find at least equal to, if not better, services and products by others at lower prices.

[Bogie Shooter]

I truly admire the business acumen of the Morse family. TV is an amazing place and I will be eternally grateful to Mr. Schwartz for conceiving of it, Gary Morse for enlarging the vision and Mark Morse for continuing the legacy.

All of that being said, I still stand by my opinion that the Morse family is greedy. They nickel and dime TVers, especially newbies who know no better. A couple of examples: When Empty Nest was run by the developer (i.e., the Morse family), they charged $3.50 a day to check a home once a week. This fee was outrageous. They have now sold that portion of their services (or so it is claimed, although I'm not entirely convinced -- if you go through enough corporate records, you will find it is still a subsidiary of the Morses and still charges higher rates than the norm). The Villages Golf Carts is owned by the Morses -- their carts are priced higher than anywhere else around here; their rental fees are higher than anyone around here (and for a lesser, slower cart). They charge businesses a little higher sales (not profit, SALES) rate than the majority of malls in the U.S. and there is no negotiating that fee. They could easily put their fees in line with those of other businesses in and around TV but have no need to do so -- people will use their services and products because they know no better or have no choice if they want to do business in TV.

So, I thank Mr. Schwartz and the Morses for their visions and willingness to put their livelihood on the line in building TV and making it what it is today. I also do my best to not do business in a Morse-owned property (direct ownership or via a subsidiary). I can usually find at least equal to, if not better, services and products by others at lower prices.

This seems like a double edged sword! One side is worn and soft the other is sharp and cutting.

[billethkid]

just looking at the community as it progressed from the historic area, to Spanish Springs being built and the surrounding infrastructure and homes and Reina Sales Center, then widening 466 pushing Buena Vista and Morse Blvd South, then Sumter Square with new sales center and ditto all above and then further South to 466A and again the sales center moves with the center of gravity of the new construction as do the models and soon on to the new town center on SR 44.
Going from single wide trailers to ranches then designers and as the sales of these took off they entered into Premier.

All very calculated. All by most any measure totally successful (this does not mean 100% because nothing ever is).

Yes Schwartz may have planted the seeds but Gary Morse had the moxy to take the seed and update it's germination to match the needs of the current market. As the marketing 101 book says, find a need then fulfill it.

That the family has done.

The real measure of success will come when we see how well this entity continues when ever the family says....we're done and are gone. Only then will we really find out the true cost of keeping our new found piece of heaven in TV. Hopefully the developer planning has extended investments that are planned to be a part of the turn over to fund the massive infrastructure we all enjoy.

Yes, the family gets an A + on their report card. There are very many developers across the country that would like to have the Morse's slow season!!!

btk

[2BNTV]

billethkid
Soaring Eagle member Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,301

One can see the evolution in concept, design and the times by

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

just looking at the community as it progressed from the historic area, to Spanish Springs being built and the surrounding infrastructure and homes and Reina Sales Center, then widening 466 pushing Buena Vista and Morse Blvd South, then Sumter Square with new sales center and ditto all above and then further South to 466A and again the sales center moves with the center of gravity of the new construction as do the models and soon on to the new town center on SR 44.
Going from single wide trailers to ranches then designers and as the sales of these took off they entered into Premier.

All very calculated. All by most any measure totally successful (this does not mean 100% because nothing ever is).

Yes Schwartz may have planted the seeds but Gary Morse had the moxy to take the seed and update it's germination to match the needs of the current market. As the marketing 101 book says, find a need then fulfill it.

That the family has done.

The real measure of success will come when we see how well this entity continues when ever the family says....we're done and are gone. Only then will we really find out the true cost of keeping our new found piece of heaven in TV. Hopefully the developer planning has extended investments that are planned to be a part of the turn over to fund the massive infrastructure we all enjoy.

Yes, the family gets an A + on their report card. There are very many developers across the country that would like to have the Morse's slow season!!!

btk
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btk:

Well said. :BigApplause:

[Russ_Boston]

Just a note for 2BN and others: There is an easy way to quote the user (all or part of the quote) by using the quote button on the original post. You can then edit between the brackets ([]....[]).

Seems like a lot of users don't know this and try to cut and past into another post which isn't as useful in my opinion. Also makes quoting you easier than also pulling in the original + yours.

[chuckinca]

I believe Mr Schwartz often mixed with the residents.


.

[LuvItHere]

All of that being said, I still stand by my opinion that the Morse family is greedy. They nickel and dime TVers, especially newbies who know no better. A couple of examples: When Empty Nest was run by the developer (i.e., the Morse family), they charged $3.50 a day to check a home once a week. . . .

If consumers patronize a businessperson who is "greedy" because their price is higher, that is the consumer's choice. As "newbies", "we knew better" than to think that Empty Nest is the only place around who does that (open the newspaper ads, or say hello to the retired neighbor who charges $10/visit twice a month).

Outside TV, people might join one country club that excludes certain people and costs $40,000 dues per year with an initiation fee of $500,000 . . . or they might join a country club whose dues are $5,000/year with $10,000 initiation fee.

It's the consumer's choice which one they want. But here, we are all "members" of 9-10 exceptional country clubs without all the dues, initiation fees, minimum spending; golf greens fees are reasonable; etc.

I think A-Rod and LeBron are "greedy", too, but people always pay a bundle to see them. It's the fan's choice.

[Russ_Boston]

If consumers patronize a businessperson who is "greedy" because their price is higher, that is the consumer's choice. As "newbies", "we knew better" than to think that Empty Nest is the only place around who does that (open the newspaper ads, or say hello to the retired neighbor who charges $10/visit twice a month).

Outside TV, people might join one country club that excludes certain people and costs $40,000 dues per year with an initiation fee of $500,000 . . . or they might join a country club whose dues are $5,000/year with $10,000 initiation fee.

It's the consumer's choice which one they want. But here, we are all "members" of 9-10 exceptional country clubs without all the dues, initiation fees, minimum spending; golf greens fees are reasonable; etc.

I think A-Rod and LeBron are "greedy", too, but people always pay a bundle to see them. It's the fan's choice.

I'm pretty sure that is what Red said. She chooses not to patronize.

[golfnut]

I too give the family an A+

Russ have you figured out who Gary Morse is or are you pulling our leg (btw Gary is 73).....gn

[barb1191]

http://Complete Guide to The Villages Florida" (http://Complete Guide to The Villages Florida)

It seems like the pecking order is Harold Schwartz, Gary Morse, & Mark Morse.

A real good website about the history of TV.....b

[golfnut]

barb can you check your link, I get nothing....gn

[barb1191]

barb can you check your link, I get nothing....gn

Sorry, have tried every possible way I can think of i.e., Photobucket, cut/paste, upload, etc and can not succeed in pulling the website up into this website. Suggest that you find it the way I did by putting a search on it in your IP search engine. I don't usually have any luckl with PDA documents and this is what this one is. I have the document downloaded on my 'puter, but it won't allow me to upload it to photobucket or this website.

If anyone can help, greatfully appreciated as it is a great article of TV starting from the very beginning when H Schwartz first started OBG with another partner and then bought the partner out and that's when Gary Morse came into the picture and created this paradise. Yes, Gary Morse is the genious behind all of this and Mark Morse, his son seems to be following in his father's footsteps. The Morse family are hard-working members of this huge successful entity.

[barb1191]

Just noted that what I was attempting to share with that website is a published book, obviously with proprietary restrictions. One is able to read it online though.....b

[Russ_Boston]

Russ have you figured out who Gary Morse is or are you pulling our leg (btw Gary is 73).....gn

I know a Barry Morse in Hadley. He's about 73.

[Pturner]

I also give the family an A+ for vision, leadership and business acumen. I admire that TV has remained a family enterprise and that now a third generation of the family seems poised to take the reins.

Questions have been raised about Gary Morse's business ethics with regard to the IRS issue, the sale of TV assets to company-controlled CDDs, alleged influence peddling and some spending of amenity fees that resulted in a successful lawsuit challenge.

On the IRS issue: it remains to be seen how it will come out, but he probably tested the boundaries. If he wins the case, I'd give him maybe a B +. If he doesn't win, I'll study the IRS evidence and conclusions before deciding.

Political influence peddling: I don't have enough information. If he did nothing illegal or improper, and I have no evidence to suggest he did, I'd give him an A- for political acumen without crossing the one.

Alleged inflated appraisal of assets sold to CDD's: If nothing else, the transactions seem to not have been arms length. B- is the best I can do. That's probably generous.

I also agree with BTK that the real test of sustainability will be post build out.

As for the quality of life in TV: A+ hands down. The Morse's deserve tremendous credit and appreciation for everything they got right.

[Jakel]

I am amazed at how private the Morse family, and in particular, Gary Morse is. Most people with a successful business would want face recognition. I would love to buy a dvd documenting the history of how the family designed and built The Villages. Everytime I visit I am even more impressed with the attention to details. Just wish we could sell here in Jersey, then we wouldn't have missed Gracie's party, and we would have met many of you famous Villagers!

[golfnut]

some people bask in the limelight, some prefer their privacy. FYI, from what i understand Mark Morse is spotted around town with some regularity...gn

[K9-Lovers]

All of that being said, I still stand by my opinion that the Morse family is greedy. They nickel and dime TVers, especially newbies who know no better.

Sorry, Redwitch, I have to disagree about the greediness comment. People pay extra for convenience all the time. For example, the golf cart retailer owned by the developer is right here at the squares ... convenient.

Charging businesses more than the norm who wish to locate in one of the squares is a smart business move. By charging more, it weeds out those businesses that would not as successful. Therefore, we don't have mediocre shops and businesses at the squares, only the cream of the crop can afford their rates and that's why we have retailers and service providers that are excellent and highly successful. That's why we have desirable shops and professional businesses that we and those outside of TV want to frequent.

The developer has provided a solution to every need and filled every identifiable niche. If you had a massive business such as theirs, you would want to capture income from a variety of sources, rather than just from home sales.

Seems smart to me, not greedy.

Gracie, I'm not able to comment about any of the individuals in the Morse family. You specifically asked about Gary Morse. But I can say that I admire any family that can work together for a long period of time. Working with your family takes a great deal of respect and patience, love and understanding. Working with your family and making a paradise for retirees while taking in a profit -- extraordinary!

[Bosoxfan]

Sorry, Redwitch, I have to disagree about the greediness comment. People pay extra for convenience all the time. For example, the golf cart retailer owned by the developer is right here at the squares ... convenient.

Charging businesses more than the norm who wish to locate in one of the squares is a smart business move. By charging more, it weeds out those businesses that would not as successful. Therefore, we don't have mediocre shops and businesses at the squares, only the cream of the crop can afford their rates and that's why we have retailers and service providers that are excellent and highly successful. That's why we have desirable shops and professional businesses that we and those outside of TV want to frequent.

The developer has provided a solution to every need and filled every identifiable niche. If you had a massive business such as theirs, you would want to capture income from a variety of sources, rather than just from home sales.

Seems smart to me, not greedy.



Well said!!!:agree: :BigApplause:

[Ajack]

Well said!!!:agree: :BigApplause:

Yep, I agree,too.

[beartrack]

WOW, K9 Lovers, Great post. Bravo

:BigApplause:

[redwitch]

Sorry, Redwitch, I have to disagree about the greediness comment. People pay extra for convenience all the time. For example, the golf cart retailer owned by the developer is right here at the squares ... convenient.

Charging businesses more than the norm who wish to locate in one of the squares is a smart business move. By charging more, it weeds out those businesses that would not as successful. Therefore, we don't have mediocre shops and businesses at the squares, only the cream of the crop can afford their rates and that's why we have retailers and service providers that are excellent and highly successful. That's why we have desirable shops and professional businesses that we and those outside of TV want to frequent.

The developer has provided a solution to every need and filled every identifiable niche. If you had a massive business such as theirs, you would want to capture income from a variety of sources, rather than just from home sales.

Seems smart to me, not greedy.

Gracie, I'm not able to comment about any of the individuals in the Morse family. You specifically asked about Gary Morse. But I can say that I admire any family that can work together for a long period of time. Working with your family takes a great deal of respect and patience, love and understanding. Working with your family and making a paradise for retirees while taking in a profit -- extraordinary!

K9, too many businesses fail or move once their lease is up in the Squares because of the rental rates and the percentage of sales receipts. Rather than be willing to negotiate a workable rate, the developer simply lets the businesses go. That's not good business, that's greed.

Yes, Villagers pay for the convenience of shopping in TV and don't mind doing so, including me. I mind when it is one entity under the umbrella and guise of being different entities that have prices well beyond other local businesses. I will not do business with those stores and services.

I mind that I have to dig through tons of corporate records to discover that an entity is actually part and parcel of the developers, especially when it is announced that the entity has been sold and is no longer under the developer's umbrella. Again, I will not do business with that service.

Buy a home from the Morses? In a heartbeat! Buy from the Mercantile? Not me. Use the services of Blackhawk? Not me. Have TV Golf Cart service my cart or buy a cart from them? Not me.

As I said, I appreciate the fulfillment of a vision and I willingly pay for the privilege of living here. Like my best friend or my soul mate, I see their flaws and love them anyway. The same is true of TV. I don't have to like the developers to admire their accomplishments.

[Tom Hannon]

.

[Taj44]

I truly admire the business acumen of the Morse family. TV is an amazing place and I will be eternally grateful to Mr. Schwartz for conceiving of it, Gary Morse for enlarging the vision and Mark Morse for continuing the legacy.

All of that being said, I still stand by my opinion that the Morse family is greedy. They nickel and dime TVers, especially newbies who know no better. A couple of examples: When Empty Nest was run by the developer (i.e., the Morse family), they charged $3.50 a day to check a home once a week. This fee was outrageous. They have now sold that portion of their services (or so it is claimed, although I'm not entirely convinced -- if you go through enough corporate records, you will find it is still a subsidiary of the Morses and still charges higher rates than the norm). The Villages Golf Carts is owned by the Morses -- their carts are priced higher than anywhere else around here; their rental fees are higher than anyone around here (and for a lesser, slower cart). They charge businesses a little higher sales (not profit, SALES) rate than the majority of malls in the U.S. and there is no negotiating that fee. They could easily put their fees in line with those of other businesses in and around TV but have no need to do so -- people will use their services and products because they know no better or have no choice if they want to do business in TV.

So, I thank Mr. Schwartz and the Morses for their visions and willingness to put their livelihood on the line in building TV and making it what it is today. I also do my best to not do business in a Morse-owned property (direct ownership or via a subsidiary). I can usually find at least equal to, if not better, services and products by others at lower prices.

My thoughts exactly. The question posed here is "what do you think of Gary Morse", not what you think of The Villages. Many of us posting here on TOTV actually live in The Villages, and we love it here with all the amenities, etc. I too am grateful that Harold Schwartz had the vision to get this place started, and the Morse relatives continue the legacy. But from my perspective there is a greedy aspect to the Morse business dealings. Everywhere you look they have their "hands in the pie" so to speak. You can call that good business acumen, or if you're on the receiving end of having to pay out, as we Villagers are, I think it is called taking advantage. Yes, as consumers we have the right to utilize other services, and many of us do. I didn't buy my furniture from Southern Lifestyles, another arm of the developer. I found the same products cheaper elsewhere, for example. But other people living here may not find it as easy to do so.

Another important case in point is the $40 million class action lawsuit filed against the Developer. Its shameful that things had to go that far, just so amenity services and facilities would be maintained. It seems to me that if Morse had really cared about the status of the facilities and services in The Villages, he would not have to be prodded by a lawsuit to do what is good for the community.

The the whole IRS bond thing is another issue the Villagers have been saddled with, thanks to the "business acumen" of the Morses. It remains to be seen how it will be resolved, but certainly has the potential to cost us Villagers hundreds of millions of dollars. If that happened, I expect there would have to be another class action lawsuit to get the Morses to do what is right.

Do I love the Villages? Yes, I enjoy most aspects of it. Do I think the Morse's are taking advantage of the seniors here? You betcha.

[Zumbahead]

I would love to meet any of the Morse's and tell them just how much I've enjoyed my life here in the villages. It's great!!!!

[billethkid]

than most shopping malls in FL. Some units in Sumter Square are less per Square foot than units in the shopping centers off Rolling Acres.

As for the always alleged percent of sales fee for TV, the leases I have been involved in and those of other retailers I am knowledgeable of....yes there is a % retail fee.....but not until after one hits a revenue level substantially higher than any amount ever presented in a soliciting business plan. For example, if a business planned steady state retail was forecast to be $500,000 per year; the % fee would be designed to BEGIN on sales say above $1,000,000. In which case the business would have doubled in size beyond plan and if they hit such growth would be more than capable and content to pay the fee.

All these rates and costs are known to applicants before they sign on the dotted line. When they sign up they are fully aware of what it costs to be in business in TV (or any where else). If they do not measure up to expectation, and do not do what they expected to meet expense and profit targets, it is most certainly not the fault of the rents charged or the always mis-understood % fee for TV.

There have been good examples of TV working with retailers to move into smaller facilities (several have done this over the years) to be successful. Some have even made a third move to even a smaller venue in an off TV location only to close their doors within a year.

I do not think it is accurate or fair to chastise TV for the failure of a business here. TV may be tough and experience has served to teach them to be that....however, if a business can show merit, TV will work with that entity to do what ever is reasonable and..... AGAIN.....agreed to by the retailer to make it work.

It is not unusual for a failed business to lay the blame at another doorstep to save face.

I am not defending TV....only presenting what I know from first hand experience in more than one commercial lease arrangement here in TV as well as other locations.

btk

[Ajack]

The Morse's are not seen often here in person, in fact almost NEVER ,so people have to guess what they are really, really like and what they are up to.

I think Gary Morse is in his 60's, a very good business man and a perfectionist. I think I would like him if I knew him personally.

Can't wait to see what you have to say.

Gracie, I think this thread has gone from perceptions of the man to questioning his character. I, as a brand new FROG, am grateful and proud to see the free enterprise system at it's shining best.
I wonder if people here dig into the records of every business they frequent or are the Villages exclusive? The beauty of capitalism is the ability of the consumer to chose where they spend their money. Don't forget, when you shop at your local shops, you are also keeping Villages jobs more secure, too.

[otherbruddaDarrell]

I think he is one smart cookie!....................I would also bet that he or some of his family are on this site on a regular basis in order to find out the various problems/solutions presented on TOTV.

[Rag Bagger]

I think a lot of the negative comments about Gary Morse are the result of jealousy.

I know we all work hard in our life to gain what we have. But some work harder, some work smarter, some work harder and smarter and a very few work harder, smarter and brilliant. Thank you very much but that is the American Way. The Morse family has just plain been brilliant. I for one am happy for that. I have the best place in the country to live. Thank you Mr. Morse and family.

All this is just my opinion.

[Russ_Boston]

I am not defending TV....only presenting what I know from first hand experience in more than one commercial lease arrangement here in TV as well as other locations. btk


Great info BTK.

I like to hear both sides. In the end it still comes down to standard business theory "Supply vs. Demand".

[REDCART]

Anyone who has attempted even a small project quickly discovers that the devil is in the details. With a project of this size, the issues that the developer has overcome are almost overwhelming. As an example. think about the ecological impact of recovering and managing surface water, and how well the system works. Few people are born with this engineering expertise but the family uncovered the resources to tap into which makes TV run so smoothly. This place was no accident, and pride rather than greed was their motivation in my opinion.

[salpal]

I agree with OBDarrell....one smart cookie with amazing vision! I keep asking myself why aren't there other places like this in the USA? I hear rumors they are going to do another one in Texas or N.Carolina, and if true, more power to them. If you build it, they will come. I am living proof, I hated Florida and had no desire to ever live here, but here I am!

[2BNTV]

Just a note for 2BN and others: There is an easy way to quote the user (all or part of the quote) by using the quote button on the original post. You can then edit between the brackets ([]....[]).

Seems like a lot of users don't know this and try to cut and past into another post which isn't as useful in my opinion. Also makes quoting you easier than also pulling in the original + yours.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Russ_Boston:

Used the "quote" icon.

Thanks for this tip. I didn't know that.

2B

[villages07]

A brilliant businessman and visionary, but a very private, almost reclusive individual. Very little seen of him locally and very little written about him. A google search reveals very little.

I'd like to think and hope that he is heading the way of Warren Buffett and Bill Gates... He's made more money than he can ever spend so whats more important to him now is to preserve the legacy for himself and his family by ensuring that this special, unique place thrives well into the future.

Gary, if you're reading this... Thank you so much for creating this wonderful place. May you live a very long and happy life and see the next generations of your family continue the hardworking example you and your father set.

[billethkid]

and has chosen to remain here in TV!.

btk

[Russ_Boston]

and has chosen to remain here in TV!.

btk

Great point BTK. You're on a roll!

[golfnut]

Where is the topic cop :police: when you need 'em

[Ajack]

Where is the topic cop :police: when you need 'em

:confused:

[logdog]

Sorry, have tried every possible way I can think of i.e., Photobucket, cut/paste, upload, etc and can not succeed in pulling the website up into this website. Suggest that you find it the way I did by putting a search on it in your IP search engine. I don't usually have any luckl with PDA documents and this is what this one is. I have the document downloaded on my 'puter, but it won't allow me to upload it to photobucket or this website.

If anyone can help, greatfully appreciated as it is a great article of TV starting from the very beginning when H Schwartz first started OBG with another partner and then bought the partner out and that's when Gary Morse came into the picture and created this paradise. Yes, Gary Morse is the genious behind all of this and Mark Morse, his son seems to be following in his father's footsteps. The Morse family are hard-working members of this huge successful entity.

Try this: http://www.thevillagesfloridabook.com/about/

Then click on "Click here to download Chapter 3, History of The Villages." Good info.

[barb1191]

Try this: http://www.thevillagesfloridabook.com/about/

Then click on "Click here to download Chapter 3, History of The Villages." Good info.

Thank you, thank you, thank you, logdog. Don't know how you did it, but it sure is an interesting Chapter 3. I guess that I was attempting to make the url "Chapter 3...." when I should have made the url as you did, by the title of the book. DUH ...b

[Pturner]

I know he has a family home here. Is it his principal residence? Anyone know how much of the year he lives here?

[dfn8tly]

I've been told that altough he does have a large home here he spends most of his time on his yacht that he purchased from CBS. Just a rumor, no verification.

[graciegirl]

Good questions P!

Can anyone do Google earth well enough to show us that area in the middle of TV between Morse and Buena Vista, behind the Polo field that is their compound?

[Larryandlinda]

Good questions P!

Can anyone do Google earth well enough to show us that area in the middle of TV between Morse and Buena Vista, behind the Polo field that is their compound?

Speaking of google earth.....
Any reason why the aerial and birdseyes stop near TV perimeter?

L and L

[Pturner]

Good questions P!

Can anyone do Google earth well enough to show us that area in the middle of TV between Morse and Buena Vista, behind the Polo field that is their compound?

Check this out...

<http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=28.927402,-81.985824&spn=0.001951,0.004128&t=h&z=19>

[Pturner]

Speaking of google earth.....
Any reason why the aerial and birdseyes stop near TV perimeter?

L and L

Hi L and L,
I'm not sure why you are having this issue. Google Earth does zoom into TV. What are you trying to find in TV on GE?

[dillywho]

I don't feel that Gary Morse or any of the other Morses are greedy....just savvy. Greedy is when you take everything for yourself and give nothing in return. As for businesses failing, that is the fault of the business management and/or supply and demand. Otherwise, all of them would fail...none would succeed.

Not a single other person or family has taken the risk and put up the money like they have. They did not do any of it with a guarantee. It's called speculation, and in the instance of TV, it has paid off and paid off big. I can only hope that they continue. For us, this has been and continues to be a blessing. If anyone can find something else better, then go for it. The door is always open....we're not going anywhere.

A big "Thank you" for all they have done and continue to do. Have they made mistakes? Sure. Do any of you know of anyone who hasn't? If so, I'd sure like to get in line and meet whoever it is and find out the secret.

[bike42]

. . . Google earth well enough to show us that area in the middle of TV between Morse and Buena Vista, behind the Polo field that is their compound?

No need to use Google Earth, just use the Sumter County Property Assessor's website http://www.sumterpa.com/GIS/Search_F.asp

Type Morse into the "Name" box and you'll get links to Gary Morse, Mark Morse as well as various others -- click on the GIS map link, then zoom in and you can see the various parts of the compound -- plus lots of data such as square footage etc. etc.

[graciegirl]

No need to use Google Earth, just use the Sumter County Property Assessor's website http://www.sumterpa.com/GIS/Search_F.asp

Type Morse into the "Name" box and you'll get links to Gary Morse, Mark Morse as well as various others -- click on the GIS map link, then zoom in and you can see the various parts of the compound -- plus lots of data such as square footage etc. etc.

Wow Bike. :wave:I told L and L that I thought of all of us that you two might know the family personally. They said no.

I feel like a snooper looking at this, but it does work. They have a BIG YARD!!

[Pturner]

Check this out...

<http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=28.927402,-81.985824&spn=0.001951,0.004128&t=h&z=19>

The Google Earth map is easier to navigate though. You can zoom closer if you really want to be noisy, or zoom out further and browse all around TV.
:crap2:

[Tweety Bird]

ill give em this....10 years ago if someone told me i would spend a quarter of a million dollars on a a two bedroom place with people all over the place i would have told them they are crazy! and now here i am.

And, I remembered stating, "there would be one state I would never want to live in, and that is Florida". And...here I am. Amazing.

[graciegirl]

And, I remembered stating, "there would be one state I would never want to live in, and that is Florida". And...here I am. Amazing.

Ah yes, my words exactly, Ms. Bird:wave:

[Indy-Guy]

I have a book titled The Villages Then and now the author is Lee King and it was published in 2006. I purchased mine at All Booked up. It is a very interesting book. The information below is from that book.

Perhaps this will let many know a little more about H. Gary Morse.

In the early 60's Harold Schwartz and Al Tarson were purchasing land in Central Florida for $150.00 an acre and sellling it for $295.00 for a quarter acre and were doing this via mail order transactions. The mail order business collapsed and the two partners were left holding several hundred acres north of Lady Lake. In the mid 80's Al Tarson sold out to Harold Schwartz. Schwartz then visited Dell Webb's Sun City in AZ. Schwartz then decided that he could do the same in central FL. Up to this time Orange Blossom Hills mobil home park had operated at a loss for Schwartz. By this time Schwartz was 70 years of age and he sent his son Gary Morse to operate the endevor while Schwartz remained in Chicago.

Morse who is Harold Schwartz son from a previous marriage and was adopted by his stepfather in the mid 40's at his mothers instance that he take the stepfather's non-Jewish sounding name as she feared the Nazis would invade the US.

In 1983 Gary Morse a sales force of one sold 97 homes in Orange Blossom Hills that had only 50 homes when he arrived. The next year Morse had so many homes under construction that they had a cash flow problem and he called his Father is Chicago and asked if he should slow down sales. Mr Schwartz said keep on selling and build me one. Mr Schwartz then moved permently to Orange Blossom Gardens.

They haven't looked back since.

I reccomend this book if All Booked Up still sells it. The above is a sample of the information it contains.

[mzmom3]

When we came on our first visit in the 90s, we were so impressed with smiling faces and couples holding hands everywhere.

This is a special place and I thank Harold and Gary and the rest of the Morse family for making The Villages a happy place to live.

Just wish there was an indoor pool or two for those who wish to swim for therapy year round. That's my only missing link.

I love The Villages and the people who live here and those that make it special.

[barb1191]

When we came on our first visit in the 90s, we were so impressed with smiling faces and couples holding hands everywhere.

This is a special place and I thank Harold and Gary and the rest of the Morse family for making The Villages a happy place to live.

Just wish there was an indoor pool or two for those who wish to swim for therapy year round. That's my only missing link.

I love The Villages and the people who live here and those that make it special.

My sentiments exactly mzmom3; well put....b

[Bosoxfan]

I would love to meet him & express my gratitude for affording me the chance to live this dream!!:bowdown: :BigApplause:

[The Shadow]

Bump

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcThU7povQ8yLfr8b-mN87xGBiXkOy0Tr5BC27rGTayVuSl8454&t=1&usg=__uQKSyYT7zWDeGPHeyG4HFKy62tQ=

[K9-Lovers]

Shadow, you crack me up!:pepper2:

[CtButterfly]

I agree, TV is "Paradise Found" aka " The Bubble" - as close to perfect as life can get...how lucky are we to enjoy our waning years surrounded with so much fun & beauty...thank you...8-)

[chuckinca]

I think Gary Morse is in his 60's, a very good business man and a perfectionist. I think I would like him if I knew him personally.





According to the article in the Orlando Sentinel on Mark Morse and the Montana hunting issue, Mark is 50 which would make his father Gary around 75.


.

[graciegirl]

Madame Butterfly,

Welcome to you. I know you are gonna like it here!

[bimmertl]

Bump

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcThU7povQ8yLfr8b-mN87xGBiXkOy0Tr5BC27rGTayVuSl8454&t=1&usg=__uQKSyYT7zWDeGPHeyG4HFKy62tQ=

This post is a classic illustration of the old saying, "a picture is worth a thousand words"!

In addition, it's hilarious!!!!

[islandgal]

Please - no more Montana news.

Be thankful for what we have here and for those who made it possible.

[Pturner]

Bump

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcThU7povQ8yLfr8b-mN87xGBiXkOy0Tr5BC27rGTayVuSl8454&t=1&usg=__uQKSyYT7zWDeGPHeyG4HFKy62tQ=

:a20: Sorry y'all, but that is funny.

[1blsdman]

The Morse's are not seen often here in person, in fact almost NEVER ,so people have to guess what they are really, really like and what they are up to.

I think Gary Morse is in his 60's, a very good business man and a perfectionist. I think I would like him if I knew him personally.

Can't wait to see what you have to say.
I've met Gary Morse, many times. I've met Mark Morse and Jennifer Parr and Tracy Matthews and all the great grandkids (of Harold) too. In fact I've known them from a close business relationship since 2000. I've sat next to Gary and his wife Renee at a party at Savanah center. I've heard Gary speak maybe twice in the last 10 years, publically. He is a very private man however I was driving around the square at LSL the other day and Gary was walking across the street with his son Mark and a few of his buddies heading to lunch (at their private restaraunt, The Angler's Club I assume). You would never know it was him if you didn't know what he looked like. He is usually in a pair of jeans and cowboy boots or deck shoes and a Columbia fishing shirt. (No $2,000 suits....EVER) I've seen Gary and Mark in a tie maybe twice in the last 10 years.

Honestly, what the entire family has worked hard to create over the last 40 years including Harold, Gary, Mark, Jennifer and Tracy is unparalleled...it's simply the best thing going. What the project has done to them is another story. Of course the fact that they have become wildly wealthy is obvious. The changes most people never see is behind the scenes. "Money changes people." Money and absolute power...absolutely changes people." If you would have told the family 25 years ago that they would have come to the point in their life where they have done some of the "behind the scenes" things that they have rationalized they would have called you a liar. Very few people can handle this much power and money without every now and then starting to believe that at least "some of the rules" don't apply to you. This is the case with this story about the wildlife violations. Sure, they are innocent until proven guilty. However, there is no way that the number of SPECIFIC DATES of the case could have been known by any authority UNLESS a former employee of theirs (most likely from one of the northern ranches) was keeping notes in case they did to him (or her) what they have done to hundreds of people who have worked for them. Fired them because they said one thing wrong or didn't always cower to their highness/control. Then if you didn't go away quietly...they will crush you with attorneys or buy people or buildings to control you. They have planted a ton of good seeds however they have succumbed to their own belief in their absolute power and control. The problem...they must have done someone wrong and that person kept notes, for years, about these hunting trips "just in case" the family ever did to them what they've done to hundreds before (and is company policy with an army of hired guns/attorneys) They just wanted to protect themselves and wanted to have some ammunition to fire back in case the family tried to crush them too. You don't speakout against them or they will crush you...period.

My personal opinion is, "Mark, (guilty or innocent) your private life has reflected poorly on The Villages." Don't be another cliche of a rich man who gets away with it because he has enough money to buy whatever he wants. Tell the truth in open court. This lesson they could learn is, "The rules apply to EVERYONE the same." I do not wish Mark and MLissa and the rest of the suspects any ill will but when you break the law (whether you did THIS TIME or not) then the seeds you plant will grow and you will reap a harvest of what you have planted.

[handieman]

Those that would enjoy listening to Mark Morse's "State of the Villages Speech" and meet his sisters would do well to join the VHA (Village Homeowners Association). He speaks to this group annually around the first part of the year,I believe. Membership is $12.00 for two yrs per family. Membership is required to be invited to this event. If you go watch for the announcement on the time and place. Last year he packed the Savannah Center and a large meeting room adjacent. I had to park in Jacksonville it seemed.
Handie

[Chi-Town]

According to the article in the Orlando Sentinel on Mark Morse and the Montana hunting issue, Mark is 50 which would make his father Gary around 75.


.
This link from NNDB has info on age, etc. It's almost scary how much info can be tracked on the internet.
http://www.nndb.com/people/314/000118957/

[Ajack]

This post is a classic illustration of the old saying, "a picture is worth a thousand words"!

In addition, it's hilarious!!!!

Sorry, don't see the humor:(

[chuckster]

I agree, humorless .......imho

[jblum8156]

Yes, the VHA meeting was most informatitive. Mark and two of his sisters spoke about the history of TV and the state of TV and future developments. They showed slides of the family compound back in Michigan, including shots of Gary Morse and his children as children. The family had a lodge and entertainment venue known as Brownwood, which is where the new development south of 466A got its name. He said there will be 11,000 new homes in that area and a time frame of about 5 years.

[Taj44]

Bump

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcThU7povQ8yLfr8b-mN87xGBiXkOy0Tr5BC27rGTayVuSl8454&t=1&usg=__uQKSyYT7zWDeGPHeyG4HFKy62tQ=

The picture is too funny, Shadow. Thanks for the chuckles!

[K9-Lovers]

I've just gotta say again . . . every time I see this photo, I start laughing!!:loco:

[downeaster]

I do not have a perception of Mr. Morse. I have never met him or heard his presentations. The only available input I have for forming a perception is contained in this forum. Not a good source.

Speaking of perceptions, I have been able to develop perceptions of many TOTV members. This forum provides a great deal of fodder based on members own words.

How would you react if someone started a thread "What is your perception of (you name the member)? I think such a thread would be in very bad taste and I am inclined to think this thread, picking apart a private figure, leaves something to be desired

[Ajack]

I do not have a perception of Mr. Morse. I have never met him or heard his presentations. The only available input I have for forming a perception is contained in this forum. Not a good source.

Speaking of perceptions, I have been able to develop perceptions of many TOTV members. This forum provides a great deal of fodder based on members own words.

How would you react if someone started a thread "What is your perception of (you name the member)? I think such a thread would be in very bad taste and I am inclined to think this thread, picking apart a private figure, leaves something to be desired

:beer3: Well said.

[BobKat1]

:beer3: Well said.

Well said indeed!!

[BaylorBear]

How about giving most of the credit to the old man Harold Schwartz? He was the visionary who started this place. The family has done a great job of continuing his legacy.

I met Mr. Schwartz in 1989 at a dinner party given by my future in-laws (Len and Rosemary Bigelow) at Orange Blossom Hills Country Club. He was their friend and a very gracious gentleman.:agree:

[Larry Wilson]

I read some comments on a Montana newspaper article that Wildlife mangagement had gone undercover. So to 1blsdam who said an employee must have exposed the Morse poaching, you are probably right in some of the instances. Also, it may have been someone from Wildlife mangement posing as an outfitter on some of the charges.
Again, thanks to 1blsdam on such an intelligent and understandable post.

[graciegirl]

The Morse's are not seen often here in person, in fact almost NEVER ,so people have to guess what they are really, really like and what they are up to.

I think Gary Morse is in his 60's, a very good business man and a perfectionist. I think I would like him if I knew him personally.

Can't wait to see what you have to say.

Bump

I started this thread and there was NO intention for it to be so negative.

This is a copy of the first post.

I will be forever grateful to the Morses for starting this lovely place and I have seen very few such thought out places on this earth.

[graciegirl]

I do not have a perception of Mr. Morse. I have never met him or heard his presentations. The only available input I have for forming a perception is contained in this forum. Not a good source.

Speaking of perceptions, I have been able to develop perceptions of many TOTV members. This forum provides a great deal of fodder based on members own words.

How would you react if someone started a thread "What is your perception of (you name the member)? I think such a thread would be in very bad taste and I am inclined to think this thread, picking apart a private figure, leaves something to be desired

That was NOT my intention.

[K9-Lovers]

Gracie, no need to fret. There is no person that would ever think you would try to create a negative post here on TOTV. Your intentions are always honorable.

[2BNTV]

Gracie:

Don't worry.

Anyone that visits TOTV knows you have good manners and are concerned about the welfare of others. I know it was started with intention of positive comments.

You post was started on 10/23/10 at 8:34 AM and the Morse story in Billings Montana was posted on 11/4/10 at 7:30 AM.

Unless you have a crystal ball to know this was to happen, I don't see how you or anyone else would know that a negative story would be reported at a later date.

If you do have a crystal ball, PM me with winning lottery ticket numbers. :)

[redwitch]

Also, it might help if people noticed you specifically asked about GARY Morse, not Harold Schwartz, not Mark Morse, not The Villages. I agree that I can't imagine you ever starting a thread and looking for negative comments. Any thread you start is going to be with the very best of intentions.

[graciegirl]

Also, it might help if people noticed you specifically asked about GARY Morse, not Harold Schwartz, not Mark Morse, not The Villages. I agree that I can't imagine you ever starting a thread and looking for negative comments. Any thread you start is going to be with the very best of intentions.

Redwitch, I have you completely fooled. I have an enormous hug that you didn't pick up this morning.

I will save it until next time.

[downeaster]

That was NOT my intention.

I think we all know you well enough to know it was not your intention, Gracie.

It is unfortunate a person's good intentions are used by others as a means to - to- to-. Oh heck, it has; been a long day and I have run out of gas. I think you get my meaning.

[graciegirl]

I think we all know you well enough to know it was not your intention, Gracie.

It is unfortunate a person's good intentions are used by others as a means to - to- to-. Oh heck, it has; been a long day and I have run out of gas. I think you get my meaning.

I knew that downeaster. I think you are the greatest.

[Annabelle]

Bump

I started this thread and there was NO intention for it to be so negative.

This is a copy of the first post.

I will be forever grateful to the Morses for starting this lovely place and I have seen very few such thought out places on this earth.

Bump

I started this thread and there was NO intention for it to be so negative.

This is a copy of the first post.

I will be forever grateful to the Morses for starting this lovely place and I have seen very few such thought out places on this earth.

Gracie,
The first time I read through this thread I did so very quickly, however as I came to the end, I was puzzled by your comment (above) and would like to reply to you since you are the author of this thread.

Anyone who has not taken the time to read ALL the posts within this thread may conclude from your own words "so negative" that somehow this very long thread has been nothing more than an ugly assault on the reputation of the Morse family .... since your thread asks for people's "perception of Gary Morse".

Just to make sure that I read the same posts as everyone else (and yet somehow did not reach the same conclusion as you ..... (that this somehow became a "negative" thread about the Morse family) I actually re-read all the posts.

At the time of my writing this post...... thus far there have been 100 posts on this thread. Reading carefully through all the posts, I came up with 39 posts which made very "positive" comments either about the Morse family (or one of it's members) or TV in general.

Only 6 posts stated something about the Morse family which some readers may consider "negative" comments about the Morses. I personally felt those few posts were nothing more than intelligent and honest observations made by posters who are just as entitled to their opinions of the Morse family as those who always want to glorify the Morse's accomplishments and accuse anyone who disagrees as being "jealous."

Also I want to note that most of those few "negative" posts also included praise for the developer and the development.

So, to recap: 100 posts on this thread (thus far) 39% were in praise of the Morse family (or TV) and only 6% found some fault with them. The other 55 posts were comments that were not directly related to your question.

According to my math, surely, NO ONE could or should assume that this thread was "so negative" towards the Morse family.

Annabelle

[Annabelle]

Oophs, didn't mean to post CG's post twice!

[Annabelle]

My thoughts exactly. The question posed here is "what do you think of Gary Morse", not what you think of The Villages. Many of us posting here on TOTV actually live in The Villages, and we love it here with all the amenities, etc. I too am grateful that Harold Schwartz had the vision to get this place started, and the Morse relatives continue the legacy. But from my perspective there is a greedy aspect to the Morse business dealings. Everywhere you look they have their "hands in the pie" so to speak. You can call that good business acumen, or if you're on the receiving end of having to pay out, as we Villagers are, I think it is called taking advantage. Yes, as consumers we have the right to utilize other services, and many of us do. I didn't buy my furniture from Southern Lifestyles, another arm of the developer. I found the same products cheaper elsewhere, for example. But other people living here may not find it as easy to do so.

Another important case in point is the $40 million class action lawsuit filed against the Developer. Its shameful that things had to go that far, just so amenity services and facilities would be maintained. It seems to me that if Morse had really cared about the status of the facilities and services in The Villages, he would not have to be prodded by a lawsuit to do what is good for the community.

The the whole IRS bond thing is another issue the Villagers have been saddled with, thanks to the "business acumen" of the Morses. It remains to be seen how it will be resolved, but certainly has the potential to cost us Villagers hundreds of millions of dollars. If that happened, I expect there would have to be another class action lawsuit to get the Morses to do what is right.

Do I love the Villages? Yes, I enjoy most aspects of it. Do I think the Morse's are taking advantage of the seniors here? You betcha.

Taj44,
Thank you for your comments. Since you are a full time resident of TV, IMO you and other full time residents have a much greater interest in these issues than someone who only resides in TV part time, or rents or owns rental property.

Your perspectives regarding how the Morse family does business, as well as day to day issues/problems facing residents in living in TV is greatly appreciated by those of us who have yet to sign on the dotted line.

Annabelle
P.S. Red thanks for your comments too!

[Annabelle]

Bump

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcThU7povQ8yLfr8b-mN87xGBiXkOy0Tr5BC27rGTayVuSl8454&t=1&usg=__uQKSyYT7zWDeGPHeyG4HFKy62tQ=

Shadow,
I didn't know what in the world this photo had to do with the subject matter of this thread.... THEN I saw the other threads. I've not visited TOTV for a few weeks and so I am just catching up.

Now I am really "suspicious" about the purpose of this thread. Am I the only one who thinks the "timing" of this thread is just a bit too coincidental?

Annabelle

[redwitch]

Annabelle -- The timing really is coincidental. Gracie posted this well before the Mark Morse hunting issue was made public. I doubt she had any more knowledge about it than the rest of us. The poaching knocked all of us for a loop. The fans of the Morse's were hit particularly hard, I think.

As to the picture -- I refuse to comment on it but it was first posted on the poaching thread, then copied to here. Does The Shadow have his own agenda? Who knows but it seems so.

[Annabelle]

I read some comments on a Montana newspaper article that Wildlife mangagement had gone undercover. So to 1blsdam who said an employee must have exposed the Morse poaching, you are probably right in some of the instances. Also, it may have been someone from Wildlife mangement posing as an outfitter on some of the charges.
Again, thanks to 1blsdam on such an intelligent and understandable post.

I enjoyed reading both your posts and hope that you both will post again.

Annabelle

[The Shadow]

Shadow,
I didn't know what in the world this photo had to do with the subject matter of this thread.... THEN I saw the other threads. I've not visited TOTV for a few weeks and so I am just catching up.

Now I am really "suspicious" about the purpose of this thread. Am I the only one who thinks the "timing" of this thread is just a bit too coincidental?

Annabelle
“Now I am really "suspicious" about the purpose of this thread.”

As far a suspicions, consider this the thread was started weeks before Montana Gate. Prior to Montana Gate I could care less what anyone thinks about Gary, Mark, Larry, Mo, or Curly. My interest was so minute my only interest was the title that turns me off. Then the Montana Gate story breaks and I see a chance to dazzle people with quick wit and humor. I went back a couple of weeks and dig up this dopey thread that had 71 posts it was long forgotten. I did a Bump and added a picture that related back to another post and now this dopey thread has more than doubled in size.

Considering the Montana Gate story content the picture posted is funny stuff, I don’t care who you are.:1rotfl:

As for the dopey thread term, just my words drop the fryin pan.

[Annabelle]

Red and Shadow,
You are both missing the point.....I find this thread which basically pays homage to the Morse family more than a bit coincidental in light of the fact of it's timing which was so close to the the other threads regarding the news about the poaching allegations .....which if true are beyond disgusting.

Who is going to praise the Morse family on this thread and then turn around less than 2 weeks later and criticize them? Maybe that was why this thread was posted in the first place. I have no doubt from the times I have visited this site that the developer has his fans looking out for him because they are on here day and night posting non-stop.

Shadow, pardon me for not being more "forum savvy" but since this is the only forum I have ever joined online and have precious little time to even visit it......I have no idea what BUMP means with regard to posting.

Again the only reason I even posted to your post was because it seemed so out place..... but at that time I was unaware of this poaching story. So stop being so defensive.
Annabelle

[bkcunningham1]

How did Grace know that charges were going to be filed against the Morse family for hunting without a license? She didn't. Her post came about the time that a discussion was going on about the Moffitt Cancer Center groundbreaking in TV.

Grace posted the groundbreaking after reading it in the Daily Sun newspaper. She noted that the Morse family wasn't mentioned in the story. A previous thread about the Moffitt Center and the Morse family brought about the usual round of punches.

If I'm not mistaken, Grace posted this thread, long before the Morse family was charged with hunting with no license in Montana, but right after the Moffitt Center ground breaker.

Grace has a good heart and a good spirit and unlike many people in this world, she sees the good in people. I hope she NEVER changes. She gives me hope. Her name says alot about her. Love you Grace.

[The Shadow]

Red and Shadow,
You are both missing the point.....I find this thread which basically pays homage to the Morse family more than a bit coincidental in light of the fact of it's timing which was so close to the the other threads regarding the news about the poaching allegations .....which if true are beyond disgusting.

Who is going to praise the Morse family on this thread and then turn around less than 2 weeks later and criticize them? Maybe that was why this thread was posted in the first place. I have no doubt from the times I have visited this site that the developer has his fans looking out for him because they are on here day and night posting non-stop.

Shadow, pardon me for not being more "forum savvy" but since this is the only forum I have ever joined online and have precious little time to even visit it......I have no idea what BUMP means with regard to posting.

Again the only reason I even posted to your post was because it seemed so out place..... but at that time I was unaware of this poaching story. So stop being so defensive.
Annabelle

Bump= Spanish for bring it back up to the top of the title index list. Type in any text in the message box (Bump, free lunch) hit enter and the title goes to the top of the list.

The longer a title has no post the lower it sinks on the title list because of new titles being added daily.

[graciegirl]

Annabelle.

I noticed that you have several posts in a row. If you wish to add comments, you can press edit and add them to the post you already made. I thought perhaps that since you didn't know what "bump" meant, that you didn't know that you could just add to your first post and not have to have another post or several.

[Xavier]

He's a poacher

Really? Gee I thought the charges you refer to were brought against Mark Morse, NOT Gary. Oops.

Xavier

[villages07]

He's a poacher

Eggs, animals, or tennis shots???

If you are talking about the hunting violation charges, Gary Morse was not implicated. Mark was. The father should not be judged by the as-yet unproven actions of the son. Give the man his day in court.

[Bogie Shooter]

He's a poacher

Welcome.
Your first post is cute?

[chuckster]

A person of few words...........:popcorn:

[jblum315]

" Just think of all the places in the world he can afford to live
and has chosen to remain here in TV!".(orig. by Billethkid)
I have often thought of this. I imagine the Morses have other homes, other places, for instance in Montana, but they chose to establish their main family compound right here in the heart of TV. Reason: not to keep an eye on things(they could do that from anywhere). But because they love it here and also want their youngsters to work and participate in the family business. Very private people, as they should be. Every time I look around, even just at the lovely landscaping along the streets and boulevards, I'm reminded of the brilliant thinking and engineering that has made TV what it is. Impressed and grateful.

[graciegirl]

" Just think of all the places in the world he can afford to live
and has chosen to remain here in TV!".(orig. by Billethkid)
I have often thought of this. I imagine the Morses have other homes, other places, for instance in Montana, but they chose to establish their main family compound right here in the heart of TV. Reason: not to keep an eye on things(they could do that from anywhere). But because they love it here and also want their youngsters to work and participate in the family business. Very private people, as they should be. Every time I look around, even just at the lovely landscaping along the streets and boulevards, I'm reminded of the brilliant thinking and engineering that has made TV what it is. Impressed and grateful.

Jeanne. You are one of the smartest artists I know. I just love ya.

[2BNTV]

A brilliant business man.

[natickdan]

A brilliant visionary and entrepreneur that exemplifies the best of capitalism. Those of us in TV are fortunate to experience all that TV offers and, in the future, will offer.

[katezbox]

A brilliant visionary and entrepreneur that exemplifies the best of capitalism. Those of us in TV are fortunate to experience all that TV offers and, in the future, will offer.

I am in total agreement. Would like to add that many here seem to think that his success also means that he:

1. Should do more for us as villagers (c'mon folks - he's not our father and isn't that a bit (!) Socialistic?

2. That he is a really nice guy or that he is really an $OB

[barb1191]

Gary is the mastermind behind TV original vision and success and one certainly can not fault him for that.

Mark? Questionable!

[Larry Wilson]

I'm with you Barb. Harold was fantastic, Gary was good, and Mark is a ...Ask the people who have lived and worked here a long time. I could write a book on all the nasty things Mark has done. I won't argue with anyone because most people are clueless about Mark.

[billmar]

ill give em this....10 years ago if someone told me i would spend a quarter of a million dollars on a a two bedroom place with people all over the place i would have told them they are crazy! and now here i am.

too funny; too true. me thinks he's laughing all the way to the bank :1rotfl:

[graciegirl]

I'm with you Barb. Harold was fantastic, Gary was good, and Mark is a ...Ask the people who have lived and worked here a long time. I could write a book on all the nasty things Mark has done. I won't argue with anyone because most people are clueless about Mark.

I kinda disagree. Harold was good. Gary IS Fantastic if we are discussing business acumen...and Mark is a legacy kid.

It was only after Harold died that The Villages took off like a rocket.

And I doubt that you or anyone of us villagers really know anything about the family personally; as far as their intentions, personality or values. They are carefully private. We know only the recent few public mistakes and their huge business success.

Kate hit the nail on the head. We aren't going to their church. We are buying into their well planned retirement community.

[jblum315]

One last thought: I just wish the Morses would plan to add more regional rec centers. I see plans for rec centers, but no regionals. And with 105,000 people projected here, we are surely going to need them

[handyman]

I might have met Gary Morse at the wine bar in LSL,or if not he fit the discription............mid 60's never ending smile,


but then again it might have just been just another happy resident

[rubicon]

I tend to agree with those who attempt to separate their feelings about TV with that of the Morse family.

If you want a read on the Morses' then read the Notice of Proposed Issue filed by the IRS. After reading those filings then refer back to archive issues of the POA.

Speak to some of the people who had to pay commericial rent to the Morses. Talk to people who moved to TV in 2005-2006 and ask them to relay their experience.

Far too many people have had the wool pulled over their eyes .

[Bogie Shooter]

I tend to agree with those who attempt to separate their feelings about TV with that of the Morse family.

If you want a read on the Morses' then read the Notice of Proposed Issue filed by the IRS. After reading those filings then refer back to archive issues of the POA.

Speak to some of the people who had to pay commericial rent to the Morses. Talk to people who moved to TV in 2005-2006 and ask them to relay their experience.

Far too many people have had the wool pulled over their eyes .

And what about you, did you get the wool pulled over your eyes??

[rubicon]

Yes, yes and yes

[rubicon]

Boogieshooter I did not intend to offend anyone...Just suggesting that people ought not to draw conclusions based on their living experiences good or bad but rather do some research before rendering an opinion. So if I offfended you I do aplogize.

[barb1191]

I kinda disagree. Harold was good. Gary IS Fantastic if we are discussing business acumen...and Mark is a legacy kid.

It was only after Harold died that The Villages took off like a rocket.

And I doubt that you or anyone of us villagers really know anything about the family personally; as far as their intentions, personality or values. They are carefully private. We know only the recent few public mistakes and their huge business success.

Kate hit the nail on the head. We aren't going to their church. We are buying into their well planned retirement community.

Harold Schwartz was alive during the great success of TV Spanish Springs build-out to Rte 466 which "took off like a rocket." LSL wasn't built, but TV was already established with a great reputation during the elder years of its founder, Harold Schwartz.

HS was able to see and revel in the paradise and used to ride around TV in a beautiful stretch white Cadillac. Everyone would recognize the car and wave to him, but couldn't see him as the car windows had a dark tint.

He was always accessible and loved by all.

[graciegirl]

Harold Schwartz was alive during the great success of TV Spanish Springs build-out to Rte 466 which "took off like a rocket." LSL wasn't built, but TV was already established with a great reputation during the elder years of its founder, Harold Schwartz.

HS was able to see and revel in the paradise and used to ride around TV in a beautiful stretch white Cadillac. Everyone would recognize the car and wave to him, but couldn't see him as the car windows had a dark tint.

He was always accessible and loved by all.

Here is an article in Wikipedia that said that Harold Schwartz had only sold 400 units until he brought his son, Gary Morse in with him in 1983. I think I should have said that Gary Morse seemed to be the person who is responsible for the rocket like growth. I really don't know when Harold Schwartz passed away.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Villages,_Florida

[Pturner]

Speak to some of the people who had to pay commericial rent to the Morses. Talk to people who moved to TV in 2005-2006 and ask them to relay their experience.

Far too many people have had the wool pulled over their eyes .

1) Don't people know how much the rent is before they lease commercial property? If it's not a good deal, why do it?
2) In 2005-06?? One might make that argument about people who moved almost anywhere during the crest of the housing bubble.

Just saying.

[barb1191]

GG, just wanted to clarify your following comment about HS not able to see the success of TV.

"It was only after Harold died that The Villages took off like a rocket."

I moved here in Feb 2002 and Harold Schwartz died in 2003. When Gary joined forces with his father in 1983, they both worked together with HS purchasing additional land.

As you can see, he was with Gary for twenty years and was an integral part of the "rocket-like growth."

[graciegirl]

GG, just wanted to clarify your following comment about HS not able to see the success of TV.

"It was only after Harold died that The Villages took off like a rocket."

I moved here in Feb 2002 and Harold Schwartz died in 2003. When Gary joined forces with his father in 1983, they both worked together with HS purchasing additional land.

As you can see, he was with Gary for twenty years and was an integral part of the "rocket-like growth."

Thanks Barb.

This has caused me to clarify some history and I am glad that you and me...are here NOW!

Kindest wishes,
Gracie

[eweissenbach]

My perception from reading all the history I can find and "Leisureville", which actually contains a fair amount of Villages history, is that while Harold was the patriarch and the founder, it was Gary and his aggressive approach that really pushed the concept to it's current level. Harold may have been satisfied to develop a successful manufactured home community, but Gary saw the ptential for much much more. I don't begrudge Gary a cent of his money or success, but as often is the case, the following generations may not be worthy custodians of the fortune.

[The Great Fumar]

Are you guys kidding ???? GARY is a heck of a guy, He's a Republican , he is not particularly fond of dogs , he's a lousy golfer which is how I supplement my retirement income....
In fact the only thing I find distasteful about him is" as far as hunting goes". he's a lousy shot.........
Outside of that I think he's swell guy and besides his GRAND IDEA has afforded me a fabulous place to retire....

a very comfy fumar ......:thumbup:

[graciegirl]

Are you guys kidding ???? GARY is a heck of a guy, He's a Republican , he is not particularly fond of dogs , he's a lousy golfer which is how I supplement my retirement income....
In fact the only thing I find distasteful about him is" as far as hunting goes". he's a lousy shot.........
Outside of that I think he's swell guy and besides his GRAND IDEA has afforded me a fabulous place to retire....

a very comfy fumar ......:thumbup:

Fumar, I have said it before and I will say it again, and others have said it as well,......I remember Donna said it once.


You ain't right.

but you are funny and that makes up for it.

He is just being funny everyone and he really likes dogs.

Maybe.

[kentucky blue]

I don't begrudge Gary a cent of his money or success, but as often is the case, the following generations may not be worthy custodians of the fortune.

I had this very conversation with my mother yesterday.She is extremely concerned about the work ethic of the younger generation, and in particular a few of her grandchildren( not my 3 kids,they worked throughout college) and their friends.They feel they are ENTITLED to the financial achievements of their parents and grandparents.This entitlement leads to them becoming nothing more than parasites, and worthless contributors and a drain to the future of the family and their community.Hopefully Gary Morse has instilled his and Harold's work ethic to some members of his family, and TV will continue to be lead by a family of astute visionaries.

[rubicon]

1) Don't people know how much the rent is before they lease commercial property? If it's not a good deal, why do it?
2) In 2005-06?? One might make that argument about people who moved almost anywhere during the crest of the housing bubble.

Just saying.


PTurner your points are well taken. However if a person moved anywhere else in 2005-2006 they may have paid top dollar for the property but they would have least been able to pick and chose what went into the house fixtures, counters, colors, various design, applicances ,etc. People buying here, then were told take it or leave it. I know some people who bought then and ended up gutting out their homes to replace items of their choice.
I understand this if these were old homes and you bought and remodeled but when you remodel a new home to the tune of $50,00???????????
I gave my sales woman a list of what I wanted in a house and told her to call me if she found one.... she did three weeks later with every single upgrde I requested

My only position for this thread was to share my beleif that best practices would suggest that before rendering an opinion about a developer you might want to look deeper than the end product.

I am an analytical thinker by nature and investigate by training. While I told another member that the wool was pulled over my eyes, the fact is that my initial impressions of TV and how it operates were known to me before I purchased. My mistake was in believing that it would all get better and eventually change with time.

Bottom line for me like most here is that I am going to make the best of it.
I suppose what I fail to do is acknowledge more my appreciation for the wonderful people, like you, that I have met here, the pleasure with golfing with them and the social interactions at the town centers, etc.

What I tell my friends here is that I learned how to work well but failed all my life at learning to play. Its taking me some real effort to shed those old ways...and it is beginning to annoy my bride. and as you know bride's are always right;)

[jebartle]

Also, it might help if people noticed you specifically asked about GARY Morse, not Harold Schwartz, not Mark Morse, not The Villages. I agree that I can't imagine you ever starting a thread and looking for negative comments. Any thread you start is going to be with the very best of intentions.

There were tons of Villagers like me that left positive comments, we have never met the man but LOVE LOVE LOVE what he has created......The ole boy and I are sooooo grateful.....Atta Boy!

[Bogie Shooter]

PTurner your points are well taken. However if a person moved anywhere else in 2005-2006 they may have paid top dollar for the property but they would have least been able to pick and chose what went into the house fixtures, counters, colors, various design, applicances ,etc. People buying here, then were told take it or leave it. I know some people who bought then and ended up gutting out their homes to replace items of their choice.
I understand this if these were old homes and you bought and remodeled but when you remodel a new home to the tune of $50,00???????????
I gave my sales woman a list of what I wanted in a house and told her to call me if she found one.... she did three weeks later with every single upgrde I requested

My only position for this thread was to share my beleif that best practices would suggest that before rendering an opinion about a developer you might want to look deeper than the end product.

I am an analytical thinker by nature and investigate by training. While I told another member that the wool was pulled over my eyes, the fact is that my initial impressions of TV and how it operates were known to me before I purchased. My mistake was in believing that it would all get better and eventually change with time.

Bottom line for me like most here is that I am going to make the best of it.
I suppose what I fail to do is acknowledge more my appreciation for the wonderful people, like you, that I have met here, the pleasure with golfing with them and the social interactions at the town centers, etc.

What I tell my friends here is that I learned how to work well but failed all my life at learning to play. Its taking me some real effort to shed those old ways...and it is beginning to annoy my bride. and as you know bride's are always right;)

Implying that most are going to make the best of it...says we are all unhappy but making the best of it. I do not think this is true and you are way off base.
There may be a few others like you but to say most.....?

[katezbox]

Implying that most are going to make the best of it...says we are all unhappy but making the best of it. I do not think this is true and you are way off base.
There may be a few others like you but to say most.....?

I agree. Back in the days when buyers had no customization choices and an hour two to decide on a home, TV was selling homes at an amazing pace. No one forced anyone to buy one of these. They could have shopped around the resales.

I am also an analytical person (CPA) with some industry knowledge of home builders. A developer must always work against the clock. Time - and the time value of $ - are crucial factors in their success or failure. Simply put - in order to allow customizations a developer will need to charge a huge premium to cover all the delays that come with building a non-standard home. As the market has slowed, TV has offered some upgrade choices - but keeping them very limited.

I guess I don't understand "what" it is that Rubicon thought would "get better."

[cabo35]

Implying that most are going to make the best of it...says we are all unhappy but making the best of it. I do not think this is true and you are way off base.
There may be a few others like you but to say most.....?

I completely agree with you Bogie. It is outrageously presumptuous for rubicon to suggest in his post that he speaks for "most" Villagers. We moved here in the window he defined as 2005-2006 and not withstanding his belief to the contrary, it just keeps getting better. The fact is we are finding less and less motivation to leave the boundaries of The Villages. The novelty of the lifestyle has not worn off. Our friends and neighbors overwhelmingly share our views.

Have a good day in The Villages.

[villages07]

If you bought anywhere in 05-06, you have probably lost equity in your house. That's the nature of a cyclical housing market. I caught the peak of the market here in July 06, had the limited choices, 3 hr window etc. That's how the market was at the time. Since I don't plan to sell anytime soon, it's a non issue and looking back I have no regrets. I'd rather have had those couple of years here enjoying the lifestyle than waiting somewhere else for the values here to go down before purchasing. Life is made up of choices and dealing with circumstances as they change. It's hard to time cyclical peaks and valleys in housing or in stocks. You just make the best decision you can at the time and deal with it.

I'm with cabo.... life here is good and getting better all the time.

[kentucky blue]

What I tell my friends here is that I learned how to work well but failed all my life at learning to play. Its taking me some real effort to shed those old ways...and it is beginning to annoy my bride. and as you know bride's are always right;)

You have got to start playing,life is way tooooooooooooooooo short not to enjoy the rest of your life, and there is not a better place than TV.A couple of quotes might help,........"Men do not quit playing because they grow old, they grow old because they quit playing."Also,"none are soooooooooooo old as those who have outlived enthusiasm.":pepper2:

[duffysmom]

I completely agree with you Bogie. It is outrageously presumptuous for rubicon to suggest in his post that he speaks for "most" Villagers. We moved here in the window he defined as 2005-2006 and not withstanding his belief to the contrary, it just keeps getting better. The fact is we are finding less and less motivation to leave the boundaries of The Villages. The novelty of the lifestyle has not worn off. Our friends and neighbors overwhelmingly share our views.

Have a good day in The Villages.

:agree:

[GatorFan]

Sharon Morse played a huge role in the growth and success of The Villages.

[graciegirl]

I completely agree with you Bogie. It is outrageously presumptuous for rubicon to suggest in his post that he speaks for "most" Villagers. We moved here in the window he defined as 2005-2006 and not withstanding his belief to the contrary, it just keeps getting better. The fact is we are finding less and less motivation to leave the boundaries of The Villages. The novelty of the lifestyle has not worn off. Our friends and neighbors overwhelmingly share our views.

Have a good day in The Villages.

Dear Cabo.

I needed to hear that today. Up to our nostrils in boxes and snags here and there in the road to closing. We haven't had a decently cooked meal forever and I am losing track of the goal.

Bless you Cabo.