Pace of play on Championship courses?

[henry1224]

Can someone explain the delay occurring when you make the turn from your first nine and starting the second nine. Your first nine holes goes fine. A reasonable pace, no wait between holes, to a pace where you have to wait 10 min between shots every time. You wait until the green is clear, hit your shot, chip and putt then drive up to the next tee box only to wait for the foursome ahead of you to start to tee off. I don't want to hear the most stupid answer that we are playing to fast! The fact is that they are over booking the system with 9 hole players.

[DrBrutyle109]

Agree 100%
We have run into this several times. You have 3 nines. Use two for 18 hole play and the last one for nine holes. Played Cane in late December. Turned off Hibiscus to Jacaranda. Had to wait for THREE groups to tee off. The pace of play was somewhat ok after the fourth hole. Starter on jacaranda told us when we pulled up”you have 3 groups before you can tee off”. Best part is she thought it was funny. Giggling as she told us to wait.
They want you to play “ready “ golf, but then you get penalized for doing so. I guess it doesn’t seem that difficult to me to make tee times further apart. AND for what we pay, conditions could be better.

[golfing eagles]

Can someone explain the delay occurring when you make the turn from your first nine and starting the second nine. Your first nine holes goes fine. A reasonable pace, no wait between holes, to a pace where you have to wait 10 min between shots every time. You wait until the green is clear, hit your shot, chip and putt then drive up to the next tee box only to wait for the foursome ahead of you to start to tee off. I don't want to hear the most stupid answer that we are playing to fast! The fact is that they are over booking the system with 9 hole players.

That's "the fact"??????

Unfortunately , that makes no sense whatsoever vis a vis slower play on your back 9. They book the morning wave 7:28-9:28 and afternoon wave 11:56-1:56, regardless of 18 vs 9 hole play (and at this time of year there is only 9 hole play on weekends, before 8:00 and after 1:00) A group playing 9 drops out after their front 9, creating an open space and FASTER play. Depending on your tee time, you may be running into the last of the wave at the turn causing slower play, since there are now 15+ groups ahead of you on the back nine and more of a chance that some of them are slower. The solution is to give the ambassadors more power to speed things up. At many courses a group that is slow will be asked to skip a hole, and if they refuse their golfing privileges are suspended for a time. But then you are turning the ambassadors into golf course Nazis......and for some of them, absolute power corrupts absolutely

[golfing eagles]

Agree 100%
We have run into this several times. You have 3 nines. Use two for 18 hole play and the last one for nine holes. Played Cane in late December. Turned off Hibiscus to Jacaranda. Had to wait for THREE groups to tee off. The pace of play was somewhat ok after the fourth hole. Starter on jacaranda told us when we pulled up”you have 3 groups before you can tee off”. Best part is she thought it was funny. Giggling as she told us to wait.
They want you to play “ready “ golf, but then you get penalized for doing so. I guess it doesn’t seem that difficult to me to make tee times further apart. AND for what we pay, conditions could be better.

Eight minutes apart is pretty standard and more than adequate. Bethpage Black gets 104 foursomes off on a long summer day, or at least they used to. Let's put the blame for slow play where it belongs----Not on the tee times, not on the greens fees, but solely on the golfers. And conditions could always be better, everywhere but Augusta:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[kcrazorbackfan]

To the ones that are whining about it, have you gone into the Golf Shop for the courses you have the issues with and talked to the Facility Manager (the Golf Pro) and expressed your displeasure with the way things are run? Didn’t think so…..

[dewilson58]

Explain??..................bottomline, the front nine was played too fast and created a snowball starting at about hole #12 and the snowball is rolling backwards.

Just like driving down the HiWay and a couple people tap their brakes.

[JMintzer]

Eight minutes apart is pretty standard and more than adequate. Bethpage Black gets 104 foursomes off on a long summer day, or at least they used to. Let's put the blame for slow play where it belongs----Not on the tee times, not on the greens fees, but solely on the golfers. And conditions could always be better, everywhere but Augusta:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

I disagree...

Last time I played Augusta, the pine straw in the woods was abysmal... :1rotfl:

Then, I woke up...

[golfing eagles]

I disagree...

Last time I played Augusta, the pine straw in the woods was abysmal... :1rotfl:

Then, I woke up...

The last 3 times I played it, I was annoyed that the azaleas weren't in bloom:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[A-2-56]

This is just my opinion based on rudimentary knowledge of what I have seen in TV golf.
Most golfers play fast and expect to be done with 9 holes in about 1:30 to 1:45. Using the wave the entire system is predicated on a two hour turn. If you turn in less then there are still posted tee times staring on the other nine.
One does not have to like to system but it is a good way to maximize play.
My home course in the north has 27 holes and they do not use the wave. They simply schedule the same rotation all day. The North turns East, the East turns South, and the South turns North. Then it become random chaos for the starter but by then the GM is no longer there so there is no problem. Lol!

[henry1224]

The winter rough is high, which makes finding a ball harder I get that. What I don't get is the fact that after I let the green clear, in the time I hit my second shot, chip and 4 putt, the foursome ahead of me has not even teed off ! Some foursomes play different rules of golf? They are inconsiderate of the other foursomes! They do not play ready golf!

There are no ambassadors to be found on the courses anymore, if you happen to see one, they are gone in a flash!

[tophcfa]

Not a fan of the wave system, but that’s what they do here on the 27 hole courses so you have to learn how to deal with it. I have been on both sides of the coin here. If you are the first couple times of the wave and play at a good pace, you are going to wait at the turn. If you are later in the wave and early for your t time, you often still have a couple groups of angry golfers standing there with their hands on their hips staring you down like you are a jerk for having the audacity to show up on time for your round of golf. That’s why I love it when the weather is cold and nasty like the last three weekends, no one golfs and it’s easy to get in a stress free sub three hour 18 holes : ) with no waiting or being stared down. Other good options are to play one of the three 18 hole Championship courses that have straight t times (as a bonus you can start mid morning until noon). I like it during the slower months, when on of the 9’s is often shut down for maintenance on the 27 hole courses, and they also run straight t times. Golf on!

[tophcfa]

We have a family of bobcats that live in the wildlife preserve behind our home. We periodically see them walking along on top of the fence between the homes and the preserve, sometimes during daylight. They like walking on top of the fence as the elevated vantage point makes it easier to identify a potential snack. The bobcats are smaller than our dog, and she never goes outside without our company, so no worries. I wouldn’t let a small dog out there unattended though. The only wildlife in the preserve that gives us concern are the snakes, specially the cotton mouths/water moccasins, nothing else is threatening in our opinion.

Whoops, posted this on the wrong thread, my bad! Supposed to be on the “Bobcat in my backyard” thread.

[JMintzer]

The last 3 times I played it, I was annoyed that the azaleas weren't in bloom:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

https://media2.giphy.com/media/OTrcaFr7P5RIs/200.gif

[golfing eagles]

Not a fan of the wave system, but that’s what they do here on the 27 hole courses so you have to learn how to deal with it. I have been on both sides of the coin here. If you are the first couple times of the wave and play at a good pace, you are going to wait at the turn. If you are later in the wave and early for your t time, you often still have a couple groups of angry golfers standing there with their hands on their hips staring you down like you are a jerk for having the audacity to show up on time for your round of golf. That’s why I love it when the weather is cold and nasty like the last three weekends, no one golfs and it’s easy to get in a stress free sub three hour 18 holes : ) with no waiting or being stared down. Other good options are to play one of the three 18 hole Championship courses that have straight t times (as a bonus you can start mid morning until noon). I like it during the slower months, when on of the 9’s is often shut down for maintenance on the 27 hole courses, and they also run straight t times. Golf on!

We call that "the Villages pose". You know, leaning on a club in the left hand, R hand on hip and staring at the green waiting. Last time this happened, my friend's son( who is a pro in Boca) and I were playing and waiting on every shot. We were just a twosome and the group behind us assumed "the Villages pose" while we were on the green. We looked at each other then in unison assumed "the Villages pose" right back at them. They got the hint.

[JMintzer]

We call that "the Villages pose". You know, leaning on a club in the left hand, R hand on hip and staring at the green waiting. Last time this happened, my friend's son( who is a pro in Boca) and I were playing and waiting on every shot. We were just a twosome and the group behind us assumed "the Villages pose" while we were on the green. We looked at each other then in unison assumed "the Villages pose" right back at them. They got the hint.

Like this?

https://static.onecms.io/wp-content/uploads/sites/20/2020/12/20/tiger-woods-9.jpg

[golfing eagles]

Like this?

https://static.onecms.io/wp-content/uploads/sites/20/2020/12/20/tiger-woods-9.jpg

Exactly!!!

[Altavia]

You guys crackle me up ;-)

[Mendy]

Can someone explain the delay occurring when you make the turn from your first nine and starting the second nine. Your first nine holes goes fine. A reasonable pace, no wait between holes, to a pace where you have to wait 10 min between shots every time. You wait until the green is clear, hit your shot, chip and putt then drive up to the next tee box only to wait for the foursome ahead of you to start to tee off. I don't want to hear the most stupid answer that we are playing to fast! The fact is that they are over booking the system with 9 hole players.

With using the wave system, it is simple math. Most courses have approximately a 2 hour 10 minute minute pace of play for 9 holes. The morning wave runs from 7:28-9:28am. If you tee off at 7:28 and play in 90 minutes (complete front nine at 8:58am), you will wait approximately 35-40 minutes until you can tee off on the 10th hole, as you need to wait for the morning wave to complete the 9:28 tee time. So unfortunately, playing too fast is often not a good thing. Ambassadors try to insure everyone is keeping pace with the group in front of them as well as making sure they are playing within the pace of play guidelines (which are listed on the scorecard).

[Guitarman1951]

Pee break!!

[jack.hunter00@yahoo.com]

You turned too fast.

[jack.hunter00@yahoo.com]

If you don't like to wait. The play at a straight 18 course, Orange Blossum or Tierra Del Sol

[Funkman]

I would "guess" that part of the reason is that there are plenty of open times first thing in the morning and that results in groups moving along at a better pace on the front. However by the time you get to the turn, those scheduled to go off between 9:00-9:30 are still waiting for their tee time. I run into this a lot as I play in the mornings as a single once or twice a week. I agree the best bet is to do a straight 18 hole course if you want move at a steady pace (you can add the new course to that 18 hole list)

[tsmall22204]

This is a retirement community, slow down and take a breath. It is called golf not horse racing. Perhaps they are just tired after the first 9.

[b1ll649]

I find it impossible for my foursome to play a 4 hour and 16 minute round of golf unless we are waiting on every hole. How is the pace of play determined? My groups usually play in 3:45 or less when we don't have to wait on almost every hole. Maybe we need to give the ambassadors a little more power to move the slow groups along. The groups that slow down the course have a great day while every group behind them has a miserable day waiting and waiting and waiting.

[Starfire]

I find it impossible for my foursome to play a 4 hour and 16 minute round of golf unless we are waiting on every hole. How is the pace of play determined? My groups usually play in 3:45 or less when we don't have to wait on almost every hole. Maybe we need to give the ambassadors a little more power to move the slow groups along. The groups that slow down the course have a great day while every group behind them has a miserable day waiting and waiting and waiting.

I agree with the previous poster. I am not sure it would be wise to give Ambassadors more power.

As an example, I recently played an 18 hole course. The 7th hole is a par 3. As we drove up, there was a group still on the green with the ambassador beside the green waiting. The group cleared the green within a minute of us arriving at the tee box and we teed off and drove up beside the ambassador who made a comment about us needing to play faster. This guy clearly had no clue what was going on around him. He was looking only looking at a time sheet I am sure. We can not play faster than the group in front. Go talk to the people leading the wave (and certainly do not wait on the 7th hole to say something to that group). They probably needed a reminder on the 3rd or 4th hole.

Since Covid turned over many of the Ambassadors, I find those remaining are mostly very poor at controlling the pace of play or even having much of a clue about golf. I asked 2 recently what the Stimp numbers were. They did not even know what a Stimpmeter is.

[SHIBUMI]

The last tee time is 9:30. You teed off at 7:30, if you pace yourself for 2 hours you are perfect, if you rush and have to wait...you are not too bright...if you complain about it then your even less bright......the less ambassadors talk to golfers the better because they are all self serving and the ambassador is just trying to make things right. Its never you that plays too fast or too slow its always the other guy. They do a great job here as they are locked into the 2 hour mode, which is great....if you play in under 2 hours you don't get it....and if you write in about it, please use an alias as you don't want folks to know how bright you are not. Get a dog, he will listen to all of your stupidity and smile as long as you feed him. Its 2 hours, smarten up!


With using the wave system, it is simple math. Most courses have approximately a 2 hour 10 minute minute pace of play for 9 holes. The morning wave runs from 7:28-9:28am. If you tee off at 7:28 and play in 90 minutes (complete front nine at 8:58am), you will wait approximately 35-40 minutes until you can tee off on the 10th hole, as you need to wait for the morning wave to complete the 9:28 tee time. So unfortunately, playing too fast is often not a good thing. Ambassadors try to insure everyone is keeping pace with the group in front of them as well as making sure they are playing within the pace of play guidelines (which are listed on the scorecard).

[Good Golly]

That's "the fact"??????

Unfortunately , that makes no sense whatsoever vis a vis slower play on your back 9. They book the morning wave 7:28-9:28 and afternoon wave 11:56-1:56, regardless of 18 vs 9 hole play (and at this time of year there is only 9 hole play on weekends, before 8:00 and after 1:00) A group playing 9 drops out after their front 9, creating an open space and FASTER play. Depending on your tee time, you may be running into the last of the wave at the turn causing slower play, since there are now 15+ groups ahead of you on the back nine and more of a chance that some of them are slower. The solution is to give the ambassadors more power to speed things up. At many courses a group that is slow will be asked to skip a hole, and if they refuse their golfing privileges are suspended for a time. But then you are turning the ambassadors into golf course Nazis......and for some of them, absolute power corrupts absolutely

Question, has anyone experienced an ambassador asking groups to speed up with their play? That is part of their job, correct?

[dewilson58]

Question, has anyone experienced an ambassador asking groups to speed up with their play? That is part of their job, correct?

I've had an Ambass say they told a group to speed up, but not experienced.

[Topspinmo]

Pee break!!

Burger 🍔 and beer 🍺 break. :)

[SHIBUMI]

In the old days, ambassadors used to be called Golf Course Rangers, as time passed and more fights broke out at golf courses they quieted that name down to Players Assistance or even Ambassadors, less threatening. They will tell players to speed up when those players are not playing within the 2 hour guideline. If they are, figured out by their starting time and the color of their cart, they leave them alone. Regardless of the people behind them that are pushing faster than the 2 hour time mark. It also explains not letting players thru as this would mess up the book keeping of who is who. Golfers have to be kept out of control of the control mechanism. The inmates cannot rule the asylum. Its a perfect system unlike most courses, let the 2 hours be your guideline and you can chill and focus more on your game and if you didn't give yourself those 2 foot putts you wouldn't play so fast. I have had ambassadors tell us to slow down, we did, and I have seen them tell others to speed up. 9 holes every 2 hours, it is so perfect....
maybe thats what's bothering everyone!!!!!!Question, has anyone experienced an ambassador asking groups to speed up with their play? That is part of their job, correct?

[CWSBLUE]

Love the black...

[JMintzer]

I've had an Ambass say they told a group to speed up, but not experienced.

Same...

[BrianL99]

I've been playing golf for 40 years. I managed a very exclusive, 45 hole facility for a couple of years.

Across the country, the standard time to play 18 holes, is between 4 hours and 4:15. I prefer faster and with a cart on an open course, average about 2:30 minutes. Unfortunately, that's just not practical under normal circumstances.

I recently bought in The Villages and I've played golf 18 out of the last 21 days. My fastest round was 3.5 hours, the longest was 4:30 minutes. My average 18 hole time has been 4 hours & 10 minutes. Right in the middle of the national average.

As of today, I've played every one of the Championship courses, other than Orange Blossom. It seems to me, that someone is doing a great job of maintaining the Pace of Play in The Villages, especially considering we're dealing with an older clientele, prime season and 8 minute Tee Time spacing (most Private Courses use 10 minute intervals).

Keep up the great work and don't listen to the complainers!

[JMintzer]

I've been playing golf for 40 years. I managed a very exclusive, 45 hole facility for a couple of years.

Across the country, the standard time to play 18 holes, is between 4 hours and 4:15. I prefer faster and with a cart on an open course, average about 2:30 minutes. Unfortunately, that's just not practical under normal circumstances.

I recently bought in The Villages and I've played golf 18 out of the last 21 days. My fastest round was 3.5 hours, the longest was 4:30 minutes. My average 18 hole time has been 4 hours & 10 minutes. Right in the middle of the national average.

As of today, I've played every one of the Championship courses, other than Orange Blossom. It seems to me, that someone is doing a great job of maintaining the Pace of Play in The Villages, especially considering we're dealing with an older clientele, prime season and 8 minute Tee Time spacing (most Private Courses use 10 minute intervals).

Keep up the great work and don't listen to the complainers!

:bigbow::bigbow::bigbow:

[Laker14]

Playing Palmer, last Friday, our group was told to pick up the pace. We were told we were 15 minutes behind. Actually, we were 4 minutes behind. We were asked politely to pick up our pace. Curiously, we were told this as we walked off the 17th green. The other interesting thing is that when we got done with the round, we recapped how many holes we had to wait on. There were 6 holes we had to wait on, including the 3 holes on the 2nd nine. We also waited a good 10 minutes at the turn. So, although we were behind the time par on the card, if the hadn't had to wait, we'd been well ahead of 4 hours. Of course, the ambassador doesn't know that. He was polite. Just doing his job.
Of our 4 golfers, the highest handicap in the group was a 3. The greens were fast, some of the pin placements ridiculous for the speed and slope of the green. I'm a good putter, a 2 handicap on that course (white tees) and I had a 4 putt from 6 feet. My cart partner, a 3 handicap, had a 4 putt also, on a different green, from about 8 feet. Three putts were too numerous to mention.
Fast greens, steep slopes, and fast play do not go together.

[Bethwill]

Obviously you're playing your second nine after 1:00. The rest of the year, after June, people can play nine holes all day long. We occasionally see people waiting at the turn for the scheduled tee time groups to tee off. I guess it's more of a seasonal problem. Fewer players in the afternoons in the summer. Tee times have always been 8 minutes apart.

[Bethwill]

Obviously you're playing your second nine after 1:00. The rest of the year, after June, people can play nine holes all day long. We occasionally see people waiting at the turn for the scheduled tee time groups to tee off. I guess it's more of a seasonal problem. Fewer players in the afternoons in the summer. Tee times have always been 8 minutes apart.

[golfing eagles]

Obviously you're playing your second nine after 1:00. The rest of the year, after June, people can play nine holes all day long. We occasionally see people waiting at the turn for the scheduled tee time groups to tee off. I guess it's more of a seasonal problem. Fewer players in the afternoons in the summer. Tee times have always been 8 minutes apart.

Please re-think that post

[mkjelenbaas]

Can someone explain the delay occurring when you make the turn from your first nine and starting the second nine. Your first nine holes goes fine. A reasonable pace, no wait between holes, to a pace where you have to wait 10 min between shots every time. You wait until the green is clear, hit your shot, chip and putt then drive up to the next tee box only to wait for the foursome ahead of you to start to tee off. I don't want to hear the most stupid answer that we are playing to fast! The fact is that they are over booking the system with 9 hole players.
I would venture a guess that it is slow play??

[RayAmb]

EASY TO EXPLAIN! Come back in a few months when 60,000 people go home.
You won’t have any issues and beautiful courses. And that’s only the half of it.

[fdpaq0580]

Pee break!!

Old men with enlarged prostate just added 10 minutes to their play time. Per pit stop.

[fdpaq0580]

I asked 2 recently what the Stimp numbers were. They did not even know what a Stimpmeter is.

I don't know either. Never had my stimp measured. Do they take it orally, or ... you know, the other way??

😯

[tophcfa]

Played today and had the second tee time of the afternoon wave. Showed up 20 minutes early and was told to hurry up because we were late? How in the world being 20 minutes early could possibly be late I simply can’t understand? So we rushed out as instructed which got the round off to a needlessly unrelaxed start. Of course, at the turn we had to wait for the last two groups of the wave to tee off, which would not have been the case if we simply started our round as scheduled. It’s easy to hate the wave!

[Viperguy]

No problem in July

[JMintzer]

Played Bonifay yesterday in under 4 hrs... 9:20 t-time...

[fdpaq0580]

Let's see. Average time to play 18 holes for a foursome =250 minutes. Rounding up from 13.8888889 to 14 minutes per hole includes travel to the hole.
Time clock at each tee records start time. Foursome has 14 minutes to finish the hole or pick up their balls and move on to next hole when siren sounds "time is up".
Score on hole not completed is DNF. Failure to comply to time constraints means all in foursome banned from the course for 1 year.

Eliminates backups, waiting, slow play, griping about other golfers (maybe) and pace of play. Also eliminates camaraderie, time to converse with fellow golfers, fun, enjoyment, etc.

Streamline the game and make the courses more efficient.

😏

[Flyers999]

But don't the championship courses schedule a foursome every eight minutes?

[fdpaq0580]

But don't the championship courses schedule a foursome every eight minutes?

Guess they INTENTIONALLY want to push the players by having one foursome stepping on the heals of the one before them. Guess a foursome that walks the course won't be allowed. Since the pros/champions walk the course, the concept of a championship course is a misnomer.
My post was to (tongue in cheek) suggest a possible way to avoid the backups. To make the game more like an assembly line, where all players must move at the same speed or keep up at the cost of a DNF on their score card. Golf should be enjoyable, but there sure seem to be some grumpy golfers. Makes one wonder why they play if it only frustrates them.

[Flyers999]

If it's any consolation, we do get an extra minute(nine) between groups on the executive courses.

[Laker14]

If it's any consolation, we do get an extra minute(nine) between groups on the executive courses.

We use that up and more hitting all of our mulligans.

[b1ll649]

I play two to three times a week in a group of 16 to 24. We have a couple players who slow the entire group down simply because they sit in their cart until it's their turn to hit, then they get their yardage for their shot, then they take three or four practice swings, step back and then line up for two more practice swings and then hit their shot. Then they clean their club and replace it in their bag. We have told them to clean and replace when the cart stops again but they prefer not to do that. This is their routine which drives the rest of us nuts. We put these people in the last group and reprimand them for their slow play when they finish 20 to 30 minutes behind the group in front of them but that doesn't help. We tell them to not lose sight of the group in front of them but they ultimately do. They don't think they play slow but the proof is in the finish. If all groups would try to keep the group in front of them in sight, we would not have this problem. Also, starters should NOT push us off early only to have us wait on every hole. If we have a 9:20 tee time, we should tee off at 9:20.

😏[/QUOTE]

[CFrance]

I play two to three times a week in a group of 16 to 24. We have a couple players who slow the entire group down simply because they sit in their cart until it's their turn to hit, then they get their yardage for their shot, then they take three or four practice swings, step back and then line up for two more practice swings and then hit their shot. Then they clean their club and replace it in their bag. We have told them to clean and replace when the cart stops again but they prefer not to do that. This is their routine which drives the rest of us nuts. We put these people in the last group and reprimand them for their slow play when they finish 20 to 30 minutes behind the group in front of them but that doesn't help. We tell them to not lose sight of the group in front of them but they ultimately do. They don't think they play slow but the proof is in the finish. If all groups would try to keep the group in front of them in sight, we would not have this problem. Also, starters should NOT push us off early only to have us wait on every hole. If we have a 9:20 tee time, we should tee off at 9:20.

😏[/QUOTE]
These people sound arrogant and self-centered. Why don't you remove them from the group if they won't follow your suggestions? They're not only bothering your group, they are bothering the groups behind them.

[MDLNB]

Complaining about something being slow in the Villages seems a bit ironic. You would think that folks never heard of old people and their "senior moments."
Kind of like when someone in front of me in the grocery store apologizes for being slow or just taking too long to make a decision on a purchase. I just respond "don't worry about it, I'm retired. I have plenty of time."
Chill.

[tophcfa]

Also, starters should NOT push us off early only to have us wait on every hole. If we have a 9:20 tee time, we should tee off at 9:20.

😏[/QUOTE]

Totally agree, I hate showing up at the starter shack 15 minutes before the scheduled t time, be told to hurry up because I am late, have to unnecessarily rush out before the scheduled time, then wait for a couple groups at the turn. Why can’t they understand that a scheduled t time starts at the scheduled time. I have found the starters at Cane Garden to be especially bad at telling time.

[fdpaq0580]

Totally agree, I hate showing up at the starter shack 15 minutes before the scheduled t time, be told to hurry up because I am late, have to unnecessarily rush out before the scheduled time, then wait for a couple groups at the turn. Why can’t they understand that a scheduled t time starts at the scheduled time. I have found the starters at Cane Garden to be especially bad at telling time.[/QUOTE]

Trying to understand the starters perspective. Since the tee time is, for example, 8:00 a.m., how long to check in and walk/drive to the tee, determine who goes first, actually tee up and hit the first ball? 1, 5, 10, 15 minutes?? Just asking. Never took my buddy and me more than 5.