Log in

View Full Version : Upcoming Changes to all Gates in The Villages


Bogie Shooter
10-25-2010, 04:06 PM
I received this in an email. I have not verified the information with District Property Management. Has anyone else heard anything regarding this issue?
----------------------------------


Gary Kadow, fellow Lynnhaven resident who is currently running for Supervisor in Community Development District 5 (CDD 5), seat #5, in the upcoming General election took the initiative for clarifying this issue for us.

10/11/2010 5:38 PM I just had a long conversation with Sam Wartinbee, Director of District Property Management, regarding the upcoming changes planned for the gates here in The Villages. I know that several of our neighbors have raised this issue, and I wanted to be sure they had accurate information.


These changes are in fact a result of a Federal Law that takes effect on January 1, 2011. This law has been adopted by the Florida legislature, and accepted by the counties of Sumter, Lake, and Marion. In essence, the law states that there must be complete traffic control of all "vehicles" entering and exiting The Villages. As a result, the following will be implemented in our community:
All single entrance and exit gates must extend far enough over to leave no more than a 24-inch opening.

All double gates, such as the one at the Bonnybrook exit, can have no more than a 40-inch opening.

These gates must have a red and white striped reflective pattern on them, and the "Welcome Home" can no longer be used on the gate arms. Go figure?

ALL vehicles must be controlled by the gate arms. This includes automobiles, motorcycles, golf carts, and bicycles. The gate at Belvedere "may be an exception" due to it's current design.

Any gate that is unable to detect bicycles or special alloy vehicles will be equipped with electric eye sensors.

Anyone going around these gates may be subject to traffic law enforcement violations.

How will this be paid for?

Districts 1 through 4 on the North side of Route 466 have already had their ACC Committee approve using amenities fee funds.

District 5 will be paid for by the Sumter Landing Community Development District (SLCDD), which in fact will be using the current amenities fees that we pay them. It will not come out of our District Property Assessment fees.

Districts 6 through 10 will be paid for by the Developer.
That's about it for now. Hope this helps.

=

golf2140
10-25-2010, 04:18 PM
I received this in an email. I have not verified the information with District Property Management. Has anyone else heard anything regarding this issue?
----------------------------------


Gary Kadow, fellow Lynnhaven resident who is currently running for Supervisor in Community Development District 5 (CDD 5), seat #5, in the upcoming General election took the initiative for clarifying this issue for us.

10/11/2010 5:38 PM I just had a long conversation with Sam Wartinbee, Director of District Property Management, regarding the upcoming changes planned for the gates here in The Villages. I know that several of our neighbors have raised this issue, and I wanted to be sure they had accurate information.


These changes are in fact a result of a Federal Law that takes effect on January 1, 2011. This law has been adopted by the Florida legislature, and accepted by the counties of Sumter, Lake, and Marion. In essence, the law states that there must be complete traffic control of all "vehicles" entering and exiting The Villages. As a result, the following will be implemented in our community:
All single entrance and exit gates must extend far enough over to leave no more than a 24-inch opening.

All double gates, such as the one at the Bonnybrook exit, can have no more than a 40-inch opening.

These gates must have a red and white striped reflective pattern on them, and the "Welcome Home" can no longer be used on the gate arms. Go figure?

ALL vehicles must be controlled by the gate arms. This includes automobiles, motorcycles, golf carts, and bicycles. The gate at Belvedere "may be an exception" due to it's current design.

Any gate that is unable to detect bicycles or special alloy vehicles will be equipped with electric eye sensors.

Anyone going around these gates may be subject to traffic law enforcement violations.

How will this be paid for?

Districts 1 through 4 on the North side of Route 466 have already had their ACC Committee approve using amenities fee funds.

District 5 will be paid for by the Sumter Landing Community Development District (SLCDD), which in fact will be using the current amenities fees that we pay them. It will not come out of our District Property Assessment fees.

Districts 6 through 10 will be paid for by the Developer.
That's about it for now. Hope this helps.

=

I wounder what the costs were for Washington to make this decision. :boom:

Pturner
10-25-2010, 04:37 PM
Hi Bogie,
Thanks for passing this along. Do you by chance know anything about new law? It's title? It's purpose? Who sponsored and why? Anybody?

If the information is correct, I'm also curious what it will cost and expected impacts (other than taking longer to get through the gates).

On the surface, it sounds... weird.

Bogie Shooter
10-25-2010, 04:45 PM
Hi Bogie,
Thanks for passing this along. Do you by chance know anything about new law? It's title? It's purpose? Who sponsored and why? Anybody?

If the information is correct, I'm also curious what it will cost and expected impacts (other than taking longer to get through the gates).

On the surface, it sounds... weird.

I only know what you see in the email.
The cost shouldn't be that much, since the gates are knocked down on a regular basis....just install the longer ones.

bike42
10-25-2010, 04:57 PM
Hi Bogie,
Thanks for passing this along. Do you by chance know anything about new law? It's title? It's purpose? Who sponsored and why? Anybody?
If the information is correct, I'm also curious what it will cost and expected impacts (other than taking longer to get through the gates).
On the surface, it sounds... weird.

I agree, Pt. Once again our legislators are working hard to save lives, cure unemployment, fix the economy and all the other reasons we elected them . . . when I go to the polls I want a box to vote for "none of the above."

Larryandlinda
10-25-2010, 05:00 PM
Hi Bogie,
Thanks for passing this along. Do you by chance know anything about new law? It's title? It's purpose? Who sponsored and why? Anybody?

If the information is correct, I'm also curious what it will cost and expected impacts (other than taking longer to get through the gates).

On the surface, it sounds... weird.

Isn't "into The Villages" un-gated anyway?
Any vehicle can go through =on the major roads with no control.

If the Harmeswood gate openings were even close to 24" we'd be delighted.
One must turn sideways in order to walk through

Is a wheelchair, mobility scooter, or pushed bicycle a vehicle?

Hopefully someone will take some action and do a little more research

L and L

bike42
10-25-2010, 05:10 PM
The cost shouldn't be that much . . .

At a bike club meeting we were told (by a Sumter County sheriff) that the cost for the new gates is over $1 million dollars.

elevatorman
10-25-2010, 05:32 PM
Will the gates open automatically without the use of a gate card?

redwitch
10-25-2010, 06:17 PM
golf -- You can't blame everything on Washington. It sounds like this is a Florida legislator decision. Can't even imagine the feds passing a law such as this.

Bogie Shooter
10-25-2010, 06:36 PM
golf -- You can't blame everything on Washington. It sounds like this is a Florida legislator decision. Can't even imagine the feds passing a law such as this.
If thats true......some legislator must own a gate company.

otherbruddaDarrell
10-25-2010, 06:40 PM
Do away with the gates, put up a stop sign and full length speed bumps.

villages07
10-25-2010, 06:54 PM
The Feds set highway design standards in the MUTCD ... manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices. Florida has adopted the national standard.

In 2003, I see a letter from Tampa area inquiring if gates into residential areas are considered traffic control. The fed response at that time was the only gates they addressed were rail crossings and bridges but that they would consider residential gates in future editions of the standard. It looks like the 2009 update to the MUTCD chapter 2B.68 -page 102 in the link below now includes these residential gates as traffic control devices and thus requires them to have vertical red and white striping and extend the full width.

That's the offiicial source, as best I can tell. Does it make sense in our world??? Probably not... Yes it may increase safety but that will be offset by increased delays in getting through the gates and general aggravation on the part of bikers and golf cart operators.

http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/pdfs/2009/part2b.pdf

Pturner
10-25-2010, 06:56 PM
golf -- You can't blame everything on Washington. It sounds like this is a Florida legislator decision. Can't even imagine the feds passing a law such as this.

It probably has something to do with state adoption of the Federal Highway Administration Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices or something along those lines. Just a guess. Don't know what would have changed and why.

Pturner
10-25-2010, 06:58 PM
Ooops. V07 just posted that. I'm a day late and a dollar short-- again!

bike42
10-25-2010, 07:17 PM
Will the gates open automatically without the use of a gate card?

No, everyone will need to swipe their card or press the button.

njbchbum
10-25-2010, 07:22 PM
I wonder what this means for the Shay Gate on the north side! Been using that gate for 4 yrs and there has never been a gate! We just cruise thru and smile and wave back to our "gatekeeper"! There is insufficient room between the gatehouse and the main street to permit the use of a gate! Traffic would be backed up to the hiway if every entering car had to wait for a mechanical gate! Maybe they'll move the gate down to Tarrson? I doubt that!

bike42
10-25-2010, 07:27 PM
The Feds set highway design standards in the MUTCD ... manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices. Florida has adopted the national standard.
http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/pdfs/2009/part2b.pdf

The language of this standard is so vague I cannot believe The Villages is spending $1 million to comply without other pressures or motives. Is there a public record of the meeting(s) where this was discussed and decided? Who raised the issue and what did they want to accomplish?

redwitch
10-25-2010, 07:35 PM
ONE MILLION DOLLARS? Wouldn't it be cheaper to ask for a waiver for TV? Especially considering how often the gates will be knocked down by carts trying to squeeze through the mini-gap (or just forgetting they have changed).

Makes no sense to me.

islandgal
10-25-2010, 07:59 PM
Too bad they can't spend some of that $1 mil to make each village more secure for residents.

Pturner
10-25-2010, 08:09 PM
The language of this standard is so vague I cannot believe The Villages is spending $1 million to comply without other pressures or motives. Is there a public record of the meeting(s) where this was discussed and decided? Who raised the issue and what did they want to accomplish?

ONE MILLION DOLLARS? Wouldn't it be cheaper to ask for a waiver for TV? Especially considering how often the gates will be knocked down by carts trying to squeeze through the mini-gap (or just forgetting they have changed).

Makes no sense to me.

Excellent questions, Bike and Red is on to something. What it the world would be accomplished. If not much in the way of safety, a waiver would seem sensible. It almost seems at first blush that safety would be compromised. I hope there's more to this than meets the eye.

villages07
10-25-2010, 08:26 PM
Found the comments to the notice of proposed rule making NPRM... Sveral states and agencies provided comments on this new section but nothing adverse questioning why it was being done. The only reference to the reason for the change by the Feds was to achieve uniformity with how other mandated traffic control gates (bridges and rail crossings) are used.

Paraphrasing here, it said gate arms must extend the full width to block motor vehicle and/or pedestrian traffic, as appropriate. Seems as though the "as appropriate" leaves some interpretation for applicability.

I sure hope FL, Sumter County, and the Villages property management did their due diligence in seeking a waiver from these requirements where it makes sense to do so.

Midge538
10-25-2010, 09:30 PM
"Gary Kadow, fellow Lynnhaven resident who is currently running for Supervisor in Community Development District 5 (CDD 5), seat #5, in the upcoming General election took the initiative for clarifying this issue for us."

The Yoder 500 also helps ....

redwitch
10-25-2010, 09:48 PM
"Gary Kadow, fellow Lynnhaven resident who is currently running for Supervisor in Community Development District 5 (CDD 5), seat #5, in the upcoming General election took the initiative for clarifying this issue for us."

The Yoder 500 also helps ....


???

The Shadow
10-25-2010, 10:24 PM
I wonder if the CDD, being a government body supposedly at arms length from the developer, put this million dollar project out for bids or did the developer get it in a no bid no competitions contract.

Pturner
10-25-2010, 10:43 PM
I wonder if the CDD, being a government body supposedly at arms length from the developer, put this million dollar project out for bids or did the developer get it in a no bid no competitions contract.

That's a 5 o'clock "Shadow," a.k.a., a stretch. Don't you think? How much would the developer make after he paid for materials and labor? You're gonna have to 'splain this one to me, Shadow.

Larryandlinda
10-26-2010, 12:04 AM
<SNIP>
Paraphrasing here, it said gate arms must extend the full width to block motor vehicle and/or pedestrian traffic, as appropriate. Seems as though the "as appropriate" leaves some interpretation for applicability. <SNIP>

The pedestrian control part is 'over the top' but unless they put up a screen they can go 'under the bottom'
Seriously, do 'they' really expect to 'control' pedestrians with Railroad/Checkpoint Charlie-style gates?

Maybe the yoga and pilates clubs will grow or the Limbo will come back!!

And what about those rogue ladies on their trikes?
and egads, DOGS!!
Remember NO fences in TV!!

I say better be careful, gate installers, this maverick triker
http://www.drmirkin.com/images/ThunderChurchill.JPG
might turn loose her roadies - even though she can do the head dip and sneak under the boom

Keep us posted

L and L

bike42
10-26-2010, 04:38 AM
In essence, the law states that there must be complete traffic control of all "vehicles" entering and exiting The Villages. As a result, the following will be implemented in our community:
All single entrance and exit gates must extend far enough over to leave no more than a 24-inch opening.

All double gates, such as the one at the Bonnybrook exit, can have no more than a 40-inch opening.


=

The Standard says "the closest part of the gate arm and support shall have a lateral offset of AT LEAST 2 feet from the face of the curb or the edge of the traveled way" (emphasis mine). As I read this, it that means the opening COULD BE 3 feet, 4 feet or more.

It looks to me as if TV is using the Standard to justify changing the gates for some other reason than just to comply with this "law". What are the reasons? They should be in the minutes of the meeting where the decision was made.

l2ridehd
10-26-2010, 04:54 AM
Now we will need to carry gate passes in the golf cart. Used to just leave them in the cars and never needed one for the cart. So where do I get/purchase extra gate passes? Hummmmmmm, maybe that is the way they will be paid for.

redwitch
10-26-2010, 06:00 AM
Now we will need to carry gate passes in the golf cart. Used to just leave them in the cars and never needed one for the cart. So where do I get/purchase extra gate passes? Hummmmmmm, maybe that is the way they will be paid for.

And just think of the revenue in replacing lost and stolen cards. Cards are stolen from the carts all the time now. Imagine what it will be like when everyone begins to carry them in their carts -- lost yours; no problem -- grab a new one at the square.

This is definitely one of those things just doesn't make sense to me. I really get the feeling the cost will become truly exorbitant with broken gates everywhere and non-stop card replacement.

bike42
10-26-2010, 06:23 AM
If the newly mandated function of these gates is to stop all traffic, what is the purpose of the exit gates? I thought they were to give an image of security. Cars never stop at these gates; they roll into the view of the electric eye and keep rolling through as soon as the gate opens. Will everyone now be required to stop at these gates?

Again I ask -- What is the real agenda for these changes?

graciegirl
10-26-2010, 06:38 AM
I have read all of what you have to say and you all have considered this from every angle. There is a small thing added into this, a very small thing that I dislike very much.

It is when we have been out painting, lunching, pickleballing, golfing, riding our bike, cart, car, motorcycle, or when we have driven a gazillion hours or flown from way far away, on our return each and every one of us always felt so nice to read. "Welcome Home".

TommyT
10-26-2010, 07:39 AM
It is when we have been out painting, lunching, pickleballing, golfing, riding our bike, cart, car, motorcycle, or when we have driven a gazillion hours or flown from way far away, on our return each and every one of us always felt so nice to read. "Welcome Home".


:agree: My wife and I too like to see the "Welcome Home" signs on the gate.

bkcunningham1
10-26-2010, 08:19 AM
I read through the minutes of the Villages Community Development District's meetings. There are a few reference that I could find regarding the Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices and the gates in TV.

I am including only a portion of the minutes I found addressing the issue. You can look at the minutes by going to the link I provide at the end of the post and researching the matter if you are interested.

There is a resident of Polo Ridge who has provided the board with the UTCD and brings the issue to the boards attention at several of the meetings. I haven't looked back far enough in the minutes to find the first time it is brought up. But here is what I have found.

April 7, 2010: Page 12 of the minutes, 11th order of business, Gate Incident Report

"Stan Kozloski, Village of Polo Ridge, provided the Committee with a copy of information provided by the Florida Highway Administration pertaining to gates and advised there is direction included in the Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices (MUTCD) pertaining to signage on shareduse paths.

"Mr. Wartinbee advised Staff has located a high intensity red and white reflective tape which will be installed on resident entry and exit gates. The red and white tape will be installed in three sections along the gates. Staff has identified that the blue tape installed on the Southern Trace gate was
an error and the tape will be removed."

May 12, 2010: Page 10 of the minutes, the 8th order of business:
Gate Arm Length and Stop Signs

"Mike Tucker, Chief, Villages Public Safety Department (VPSD) advised Staff has been communicating with law enforcement in an attempt to identify what actions the District can take to ensure proper traffic flow when gate arms are inoperable and have been advised by law enforcement the stop signs installed on the barrels are not enforceable; however, the District has been commended by law enforcement for utilizing the signs and barrels by warning residents of the need to stop.

"Staff will continue with the placement of the barrels.

"Sam Wartinbee, District Property Management (DPM) Director, advised Chief Tucker and he have identified the gate arms at an exit gate will not be less than 36 inches. In regards to the entry gates the Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices (MUTCD) effective January 2011 will be adopted by
Sumter County and the Town of Lady Lake. Staff has not been able to receive confirmation from Marion County at this time.

"The MUTCD states that a gate arm shall completely block a lane of traffic
except for a 24 inch opening for pedestrians; however, in some instances the pedestrian opening may increase to 36 inches. The District will comply with the MUTCD which will require all vehicles, inclusive of bicyclists, motorcycles and golf carts, to stop at the gates to utilize their gate card or the
push button.

"Mr. Wartinbee advised the MUTCD also requires alternating 16 inches of red and 16 inches of white tape on the gate arms which Staff will apply manually.
Chairman Lambrecht requested confirmation if the �Welcome Home� stickers would be removed. Mr. Wartinbee stated the �Welcome Home� stickers would have to be removed.

"Mr. Wartinbee advised the Committee the cost for replacement gate arms will increase depending on the number broken by golf carts."


July 14, 2010: Page 12 of the minutes, the 12th order of business: Administrative Policy Pertaining to Length of Gate Arms and Timing of Gates at Entries and Exits.

August 11, 2010: , Page 19 of the minutes, the 21st order of business:
Committee Member Comments



http://www.districtgov.org/aac/aac.aspx

cabo35
10-26-2010, 09:12 AM
Implementation of new gate regulations without sufficient research and input would create a bigger problem than whatever it is proponents and uninformed bureaucrats are trying to solve. The Bridgeport Lake Sumter gate comes to mind. Because of the design of the gate, a poor one at that, golf cart traffic would have to exit the cart path, go out to Buena Vista where operators without street legal status would be breaking the law, and re-enter through the access on the island which extends to Buena Vistaa. You see, the gate access reader is between the cart path and Buena Vista while the gate is between the path and the village. This maneuver or any shortcut to circumvent it, would be extremely dangerous as two way cart traffic co-mingles with fast traffic coming off Buena Vista and would compete to enter the same access amd gate. I can hear the crunching of metal on fiberglass already. I know that there must be other gates with similar design issues.

Of course the Sumter County Sheriff can set up a manned booth and write summones for all those gate violators who break one law to satisfy another. Great revenue stream for the county.

I wonder if the people who create these dictates considered the cost implications of the redesign efforts necessary to implement the new restrictions safely? Who will pick up the redesign tab? Heck.....on the plus side it will create jobs for someone.

bike42
10-26-2010, 10:35 AM
Implementation of new gate regulations without sufficient research and input would create a bigger problem than whatever it is proponents and uninformed bureaucrats are trying to solve. The Bridgeport Lake Sumter gate comes to mind.

Bravo, Cabo35 and thanks to bcunningham for the info on CDD minutes.
Has the POA taken any stand on this issue? Perhaps we need a class-action lawsuit to prevent implementation of these ill-advised changes.

advp007
10-26-2010, 12:26 PM
I find it mildly interesting that there should be such concern over this. Most folks think there is not enough security. If I had a vote I would say the more security the better.

Taltarzac
10-26-2010, 12:37 PM
I find it mildly interesting that there should be such concern over this. Most folks think there is not enough security. If I had a vote I would say the more security the better.

They cannot stop anyone from coming into the Villages because these are public roads. There are a few roads around the Villages that have it posted that they are "private" roads.

This will just make more of a headache for gatekeepers and people waiting in lines at the gates.

It is also very probably that many more gates will get broken by people trying to go around them in their golf cart. I must see someone going around gates in a car or truck about twice a month at least.

cabo35
10-26-2010, 12:51 PM
007 -If there is no concurrent adjustments to the "press the button and let anyone in policy", what will longer gates accomplish? I agree with you that we need more security. We differ on the consequences gate extensions will have on multi-modal traffic flow safety and....its dubious impact on security.

Perhaps a consolidation of efforts reviewing and combining security and traffic safety interests would be more in the interest of Villagers. The gate extension by itself is a band-aid that will not enhance security without an overhaul of the current security efforts or lack thereof.

billethkid
10-26-2010, 12:51 PM
maybe.

As far as having your gate card with you, there is really no need for that. Just push the button like everybody else that left their card home or is not a resident.

This sounds like another one of those conference room decisions made without real knowledge to solve a problem that is most likely minimal in proportion and anfter the spending of the money and changes made, NOTHING WILL HAVE CHANGED except the longer gates and spending the money.

What needs to be ferreted out is the prime mover/motivation for this to become an issue in the first place. And with sufficient urgency to spend what will wind up being more than $i million dollars.

btk

PS is it not impressive the number of hits some subjects get!!!!

Larryandlinda
10-26-2010, 02:53 PM
<snip>
What needs to be ferreted out is the prime mover/motivation for this to become an issue in the first place. And with sufficient urgency to spend what will wind up being more than $i million dollars.
btk
<snip>

It may have been said before, and might get said again.....
Would it be possible a gate contractor could stand a chance to benefit?

We had someone going around to stores , offices, and shopping centers citing people for ADA accessibility infractions and it just so happened his brother was in the business of construction

Then there are some political types that blame certain governmental actions, declarations, and projects on the revenue.

That is not the business of this forum

We just agree it's a waste of effort and money to put so much into those gates.

On the other hand, there's enough iron and steel in the Gate at BV and Avalos to build a ship


L and L

Mikeod
10-26-2010, 04:10 PM
I don't know how they came up with the $1M price tag. But perhaps it takes into consideration that every time a gate is broken by a vehicle, instead of replacing the broken, shorter, arm onto the gate, they have to buy a new one.

llaran
10-31-2010, 01:41 PM
If you read the Mutcd - it is not a LAW it is a standard for traffic control devices and signage. It states the arm should be long enough to effectively restrict motorized vehicles. Does not say we can not have the Welcome Home sign. It does say the mechanism must be at least 2ft. behind the edge of the curb. Read the MUTCD


http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/pdfs/2009/part2b.pdf:read:

golf2140
10-31-2010, 02:35 PM
golf -- You can't blame everything on Washington. It sounds like this is a Florida legislator decision. Can't even imagine the feds passing a law such as this.

Red,

The third paragraph states that it started with mandate from Washington!! I thought there were a whole lot of hot topics on their plate in D.C.

redwitch
10-31-2010, 04:35 PM
Yup, you be right, I be wrong. Amazing how something done to protect idiots from running train crossings has become such a royal mess for others (and I can't believe this is just an issue for TV). It would be so nice if common sense would prevail once in awhile.

Pturner
10-31-2010, 07:36 PM
Yup, you be right, I be wrong. Amazing how something done to protect idiots from running train crossings has become such a royal mess for others (and I can't believe this is just an issue for TV). It would be so nice if common sense would prevail once in awhile.

Hey Red, since we already have our black t-shirts, badges and sticks, maybe Gracie, you and me can beat some common sense into 'em!

Ajack
10-31-2010, 07:43 PM
Don't forget anonchick.

AnonChick
10-31-2010, 07:47 PM
Yeah I got my Gatling all loaded up and ready for some serious knee-shootin fun! YAHOO!
:pepper2:

redwitch
10-31-2010, 09:23 PM
TV and common sense? Think that may be a dichotomy (anything run by committee usually lacks common sense IMO). Gotta be a little cooler to wear that black shirt, though, but I'm game to try. Gracie?

bmarlo767
10-31-2010, 10:13 PM
These changes are in fact a result of a Federal Law that takes effect on January 1, 2011. This law has been adopted by the Florida legislature, and accepted by the counties of Sumter, Lake, and Marion. In essence, the law states that there must be complete traffic control of all "vehicles" entering and exiting The Villages. As a result, the following will be implemented in our community:

Bill-n-Brillo
10-31-2010, 10:35 PM
As a result, the following will be implemented in our community:

Maybe it's my pc, but that was the end of your post. Is there something missing?

Bill

gadaboutgal
10-31-2010, 10:45 PM
Just my humble opinion, but I say it is time we take down the gates. They are only decorative in nature and are of no effective value.

Ajack
10-31-2010, 11:05 PM
Just my humble opinion, but I say it is time we take down the gates. They are only decorative in nature and are of no effective value.

I beg to differ. They can be a deterrence for the uninformed. They still intimidate my wife.: )

redwitch
11-01-2010, 05:21 AM
They also slow down traffic which is one of the main reasons for having them. For some, it's a great reminder they're entering a residential area and they. actually. slow. down!

graciegirl
11-01-2010, 07:00 AM
They also slow down traffic which is one of the main reasons for having them. For some, it's a great reminder they're entering a residential area and they. actually. slow. down!

What she said.

AnonChick
11-01-2010, 07:07 AM
Speed bumps slow traffic down too, and are much less costly to maintain.

Snowbirdtobe
11-01-2010, 09:47 AM
In Boston we use potholes to slow the traffic and save money on road repairs.

gadaboutgal
11-01-2010, 03:40 PM
Who do you expect to intimidate with gates? The criminals who are going to find a way in anyway? They are a nuisance and a waste of money. Ever have to stick your hand out the window to punch a button in the rain?
And as for slowing vehicles down. Just how long do you think it takes to speed up once through the gate?
But back to the why of the new laws regarding the gates; I think a reasonable explanation is that most gates that impede traffic on a public road are found at train crossings. Ever see someone foolish enough to go round the end of the bar to cross over the tracks? Many, many accidents are caused this way. Therefore, we now have a generic law mandating the length of the bar-probably to keep the impatient ones from getting killed.

islandgal
11-01-2010, 05:09 PM
Atjack and redwitch -
I agree with you that the gates are a deterrence for the uninformed and do slow down traffic.
However, I have always felt that TV's advertising as a gated community is a misnomer. Because the streets are owned by the county,
there is no way the gates can be completely secured. If the developer had chosen to maintain the streets, our current amenity fees
would probably be doubled.

I have reservations about what our security will be when our population reaches 100,000+.
I moved from a community where the gates were manned by two officers and no one was permitted without the authority of the
property owner. The owner would call in guest's name and guest would pick up a pass at a designated spot to gain access so
I was shocked when I moved to this "gated" community. I would have welcomed the amenity fee for that security.
Hopefully TV's security will increase as the population increases.

I disagree with those who want to no longer have gates whatever their lengths. Something is better than nothing in today's world even in The Bubble.

Bogie Shooter
11-01-2010, 05:14 PM
Since I do not know. Where in advertising for TV do they portray TV as a gated community?

AnonChick
11-01-2010, 05:40 PM
Yeah that's confusing to me too. As someone who doesn't live there yet, I consider it a master-planned active retirement community, not a gated community. Technically, it isn't even a retirement community, since many residents work. It isn't -really- even a senior community, because there are sections reserved for employees and their minor children to live.

It's a community that has gates, but it is not a gated community. My mom's development is gated - you cannot enter without having either a bar-code sticker on your window, or the guard at the gate verifying your authorization to be there.

My grandmother lived in Century Village - THAT is a gated community. A gated community means something specific, and The Villages doesn't meet that criteria.

graciegirl
11-01-2010, 05:44 PM
I want them to replace the gates with big (at least 16 feet tall) wrought iron ones that open as you approach because they recognize the chip in your car.

I would also like to have those guys like Queen Elizabeth has that blow their horns. A curtsy or two would be nice...but hey, it ain't bad the way it is.:1rotfl:

bike42
11-01-2010, 07:16 PM
Can someone explain to me the function of the exit gates?

islandgal
11-01-2010, 07:54 PM
Under Lifestyles on The Villages website:

Our residents say it�s like being a kid again: golf, recreation, shopping, dining, medical and professional services � everything you need to live life to the fullest � just a golf car ride away, in a beautifully designed and gated community.
You�ll make friends, you�ll make memories, and you can ultimately make yourself a happier, healthier person too!

Snowbirdtobe
11-01-2010, 08:25 PM
Can someone explain to me the function of the exit gates?

Lowers the temptation to drive through in the wrong direction.

iaudit
11-01-2010, 09:16 PM
Can someone explain to me the function of the exit gates?

S - L - O - W you down around the cart crossing areas.

golfnut
11-01-2010, 09:25 PM
bike42, u understand now right?....gn

jblum8156
11-01-2010, 10:49 PM
I don't think TV is advertised as a gated community. That would be false advertising. Everybody knows what a gated community is, and TV isn't one.

Ooper
11-01-2010, 11:11 PM
I don't think TV is advertised as a gated community. That would be false advertising. Everybody knows what a gated community is, and TV isn't one.

They look like gates to me!

Larryandlinda
11-01-2010, 11:37 PM
Can someone explain to me the function of the exit gates?

While not as controversial as Watergate, in a real world, exit gates, like emergency exits that cannot be opened from the 'outside', are there to block entry.

If there were no exit gate, a (very rare) driver could head into the 'secured' neighborhood in the opposite lane

Just be glad they don't have a 'severe tire damage' spikeplate on the ground.

If 'they' make the Harmeswood gate-end-to-curb opening 24", we'd be utterly delighted
Anyone other than Twiggy has to turn sideways to enter on foot.
L and L

captain1202
11-02-2010, 02:00 AM
I'm in favor of keeping the gates I believe they are an effective deterrent to unwanted and "cut-thru" traffic for non-residents.

Just wondering though, if promulgated in a law including railroad crossings, can we get those alternating flashing red lights on the top of the gates, they're pretty cool.

bike42
11-02-2010, 09:39 AM
S - L - O - W you down around the cart crossing areas.

But the exit gates come AFTER the golf cart paths.

dillywho
11-02-2010, 10:38 AM
But the exit gates come AFTER the golf cart paths.

Cart trail along Buena Vista across Talley Ridge; Coming from Saddlebrook under the tunnel and turning right along Buena Vista; Morse Blvd. toward 441 and/or downtown, just to name a few.

bike42
11-02-2010, 11:35 AM
Since there are so many different variations of gates, how are they going to come up with one consistent design that works for all? How about the entrance at Belvedere just past the high school? Last year they created a separate lane for golf carts so they could go by the gate arm, because golf cart traffic is so heavy there that cars were backing up to block the high school entrance. Are they now switching back to make the carts use gate cards?

Karissimo
11-16-2010, 09:09 PM
Re: changes in Villages gates: "These changes are in fact a result of a Federal Law that takes effect on January 1, 2011. This law has been adopted by the Florida legislature, and accepted by the counties of Sumter, Lake, and Marion. In essence, the law states that there must be complete traffic control of all "vehicles" entering and exiting The Villages."
How did this law come to be? Who proposed it? What is the motivation behind it?

golf2140
11-16-2010, 09:12 PM
re: Changes in villages gates: "these changes are in fact a result of a federal law that takes effect on january 1, 2011. This law has been adopted by the florida legislature, and accepted by the counties of sumter, lake, and marion. In essence, the law states that there must be complete traffic control of all "vehicles" entering and exiting the villages."
how did this law come to be? Who proposed it? What is the motivation behind it?

the gate keeper

Pturner
11-16-2010, 09:16 PM
the gate keeper

Good one. lol

djl8412
11-17-2010, 12:13 AM
Atjack and redwitch -
I agree with you that the gates are a deterrence for the uninformed and do slow down traffic.
However, I have always felt that TV's advertising as a gated community is a misnomer. Because the streets are owned by the county,
there is no way the gates can be completely secured. If the developer had chosen to maintain the streets, our current amenity fees
would probably be doubled.

I have reservations about what our security will be when our population reaches 100,000+.
I moved from a community where the gates were manned by two officers and no one was permitted without the authority of the
property owner. The owner would call in guest's name and guest would pick up a pass at a designated spot to gain access so
I was shocked when I moved to this "gated" community. I would have welcomed the amenity fee for that security.
Hopefully TV's security will increase as the population increases.

I disagree with those who want to no longer have gates whatever their lengths. Something is better than nothing in today's world even in The Bubble.
:blahblahblah:
The PRIMARY GOAL of The Villages is selling homes. When most of us first visited here to consider our future retirement years in FL, we saw all the gates and gate houses and were convinced in was a super secure, "gated community." I believe it's all part of the marketing show. As long as the roadways are publicly maintained and county tax dollars are used for them they have to be accessible to the general public. The gates will not deter those entering for illegal doings. There is camera monitoring at all the gates south of Rte. 466 but I wouldn't count on any of them to provide any photo quality good enough to use as identifying a speficific vehicles or persons. I feel a lot of our amenity monies are used for a lot of show for a lot of dough!

bike42
11-17-2010, 08:24 PM
Re: changes in Villages gates: "These changes are in fact a result of a Federal Law that takes effect on January 1, 2011. This law has been adopted by the Florida legislature, and accepted by the counties of Sumter, Lake, and Marion. In essence, the law states that there must be complete traffic control of all "vehicles" entering and exiting The Villages."
How did this law come to be? Who proposed it? What is the motivation behind it?

There is no such law. There are federal guidelines (MUTCD) for gates, IF they are used at places such as parking lots, military bases, private communities (which TV is not). The guidelines do not require any gates. They do not state how wide the opening must be (if a gate is used).

The Amenity Authority Committee is using the federal guidelines as an excuse to punish bad behavior of a few bicycle/motorcycle/golf cart drivers in a way that will inconvenience everyone, create a hazard for cyclists, and use EVERYONE's amenity money for a totally unnecessary project. If you want to complain, address the AAC at http://www.districtgov.org/aac/aac.aspx

There is a link near the top of the page that will send an email to each of the six committee members: AACboard@districtgov.org

villages07
11-17-2010, 09:37 PM
Bike42... Have you or others from the bike club gotten the official stance from the Villages public safety or property management folks? Are they using these guidelines to implement a change they want to do? The expense doesn't seem worth it and this change, requiring golf carts to stop at the gates, is sure to slow down traffic flow.

My reading of the MUTCD and the opinion of a retired FHWA engineer is that the Villages would have a good case to request an exemption from the new guidelines. Our situation here is unique enough not to fall within the intent of the new guidelines.

bike42
11-18-2010, 08:54 PM
Villages07-- Mr. Sam Wartinbee, the Director of District Property Management, seems to be trying to figure out ways to make the new gates as safe as possible (new electric eyes, etc.). However, the decision to install the gates has been made by the AAC and Mr. Wartinbee must carry it out.

The bike club president and several members gave statements at the last AAC meeting but the AAC members made it clear that they had made up their minds.
Now it seems all we can do is wait for the changes and see how they actually work out.

I hope everyone will REPORT ANY INCIDENTS that occur at the new gates. If enough problems occur, the gates could easily be cut back to their original length. (There IS NO LAW dictating gate length.)

golfnut
11-18-2010, 09:07 PM
so if incidents occur gates can be cut back? and how much are these new gates costing....gn

villages07
11-18-2010, 10:25 PM
I thought the AAC only had jurisdiction for amenities North of 466 and that final decisions on amenity changes are made by the central districts. VCCDD for north of 466 (although the cdd board does seem to abide by AAC direction. But, then, the SLCDD (south of 466) has to agree to any Villages wide changes. The SLCDD is controlled by the developer appointed board. Did they go along with the VCCDD/AAC decision?


I can see applying the uniform reflective striping but I don't see the benefit of extending the arms so that all carts, bicycles, scooters, etc have to stop at the gate. I think it will slow traffic flow. And then there is the cost.

Oh well.....

REDCART
11-18-2010, 10:39 PM
At Tuesday's POA meeting, someone asked the question about the timeline for upgrading all 63 gates in TV to comply with federal guidelines. Janet Tutt, District Mgr of the Villages responded that while the changes are effective 1/2011. TV plans to upgrade indivual gates on a necessary basis rather than a total gate replacement. I don't recall the specific amount, but total gate upgrades for TV was in the multi-million dollar range. All new gates will of course meet the new standard. Janet defended TV adoption of federal gate standards by saying that people observing a closed gate have a reaonable expection that it's safe to cross. How can you argue with this logic?

George

bike42
11-19-2010, 09:37 AM
Janet defended TV adoption of federal gate standards by saying that people observing a closed gate have a reaonable expection that it's safe to cross. How can you argue with this logic?

George

That makes me wonder if Janet Tutt ever uses the multi-modal paths. Carts, bikes and pedestrians never have and should not rely on the gates to let them know if cars are coming. As soon as cars/trucks activate the gate they come charging through, with no regard for what is on the path. It takes a lot more than six seconds to get across the roadways. We always look to make sure there are no cars APPROACHING the gate before we cross.

barb1191
11-19-2010, 01:23 PM
In Boston we use potholes to slow the traffic and save money on road repairs.

:a040: :1rotfl: :clap2:

As a North of Boston suburban native, LOVE IT!!! So true.....b

Bogie Shooter
11-19-2010, 02:51 PM
That makes me wonder if Janet Tutt ever uses the multi-modal paths. Carts, bikes and pedestrians never have and should not rely on the gates to let them know if cars are coming. As soon as cars/trucks activate the gate they come charging through, with no regard for what is on the path. It takes a lot more than six seconds to get across the roadways. We always look to make sure there are no cars APPROACHING the gate before we cross.

Most of those of those crossings have a Stop sign and a Yield to vehicles sign, for the carts. A lot of carts disregard both!

Talk Host
11-19-2010, 03:30 PM
I have seen cars, motorcycles, bicycles and golf carts go around the end of the gate while it is in the down position.

When that gate is down, it signals to those who are waiting to cross that it is safe to cross. (even after stopping at the stop sign) If they legally and safety begin to cross and suddenly someone flies around the gate, it is an extreme danger. No less than someone crashing a stop sign or red light.

I don't understand the need to go around the gate rather than waiting for it to lift. It takes all of 5 seconds.

Boudicca
11-19-2010, 03:52 PM
Guess this change will require us to carry access cards in our carts and cars, unless there is a plan to make passes (like the SUNPASS) available?

Pturner
11-19-2010, 04:21 PM
I thought the AAC only had jurisdiction for amenities North of 466 and that final decisions on amenity changes are made by the central districts. VCCDD for north of 466 (although the cdd board does seem to abide by AAC direction. But, then, the SLCDD (south of 466) has to agree to any Villages wide changes. The SLCDD is controlled by the developer appointed board. Did they go along with the VCCDD/AAC decision?

Anyone know the answer?

billethkid
11-19-2010, 04:44 PM
of society as the old gates. All that is required is the ability to push the red button.

The most cost effective mode is to remove the gates.

The traffic will sort itself out.

But that would not give the appearance to those shopping for a home here of a gated community.

The gate system here affords as much security from the unwanted as the intersection of 301 and 44!!!

If your amenity fees were going up to pay for the new gates...maybe....MAYBE...THE SILENT MAJORITY WOULD WAKE UP!

BTK

btk

cabo35
11-19-2010, 06:55 PM
I have seen cars, motorcycles, bicycles and golf carts go around the end of the gate while it is in the down position.

When that gate is down, it signals to those who are waiting to cross that it is safe to cross. (even after stopping at the stop sign) If they legally and safety begin to cross and suddenly someone flies around the gate, it is an extreme danger. No less than someone crashing a stop sign or red light.

I don't understand the need to go around the gate rather than waiting for it to lift. It takes all of 5 seconds.

While your point is well taken, it does not consider certain unique problems at many gates including this observation whereby gate extensions without complete design changes, significantly compromise traffic safety and will create even greater hazards for multi-modal users as well as autos, motorcycles (like you...I ride) and cyclists.

"Implementation of new gate regulations without sufficient research and input would create a bigger problem than whatever it is proponents are trying to solve. The Bridgeport Lake Sumter gate comes to mind. Because of the design of the gate, a poor one at that, Bridgeport entering golf cart traffic would have to exit the cart path, go out toward Buena Vista where operators without street legal status could be breaking the law, make a sharp u-turn and re-enter through the access on the island which extends toward Buena Vista. You see, the gate access reader is between the cart path and Buena Vista while the gate is between the path and the village. This maneuver or any shortcut to circumvent it, would be extremely dangerous as two way cart and bicycle traffic co-mingles with fast exit traffic coming off Buena Vista and would compete to enter the same access and gate. I can hear the crunching of metal on fiberglass and bicycles already. I know that there must be other gates with similar design issues."

I believe it would ultimately be necessary to redesign the gate, access and traffic pattern at Bridgeport Lake Sumter at considerable expense to create safe ingress and egress to that Village. I am certain there are other Villages with similar issues attributable to the original design that did not anticipate the extraordinary volume of multi-modal traffic patterns growth created.

Security considerations with extended gates realistically are non-starters and need to defer to safety issues. They are for all intents and purposes mute as long as anyone can press a button and get access in 5 seconds as you correctly point out.

bike42
11-19-2010, 07:43 PM
When that gate is down, it signals to those who are waiting to cross that it is safe to cross.

It would be crazy to count on a closed gate to signal that it is OK to cross the road. On a bicycle, we use both the multi-modal paths and the roads. We ALWAYS look to see if any cars/trucks are approaching the card reader. It takes only seconds for a gate to be activated and then the cars/trucks charge through. A closed gate offers no protection whatever to carts/bikes/pedestrians crossing the road, no matter what its length.

This new explanation that the longer gates are for the safety of multi-modal path traffic makes no sense. Are they are going to add stop signs, stop lights, crossing signals or a person directing traffic to let everyone know who has the right of way? And what's the explanation for longer gates on the exits (which come after the paths?)


I don't understand the need to go around the gate rather than waiting for it to lift. It takes all of 5 seconds.

We have no problem with stopping. We do have a problem with starting up again fast enough to get through the gate before it closes. Six seconds may be enough for a motorcycle, but it is not enough for a bike or group of bikes.
We need a space to get by the gate as it closes on us.

Pturner
11-19-2010, 09:39 PM
I don't understand the need either. It seems like a big waste of our money. What a shame.

bike42
12-09-2010, 11:38 AM
This is in today's Sun (page A8, 12/9/10):

"AAC members were in agreement that they do not want a system that allows multiple bicycles to proceed through a gate without stopping."

What do you think will happen when a group of 20 bicycles lines up at a gate and each one has to open the gate individually? Traffic will be backed up onto the main roads. Cars will be furious and will take their anger out on the bicycles. This is crazy.

gemorc
12-09-2010, 07:15 PM
This is in today's Sun (page A8, 12/9/10):

"AAC members were in agreement that they do not want a system that allows multiple bicycles to proceed through a gate without stopping."

What do you think will happen when a group of 20 bicycles lines up at a gate and each one has to open the gate individually? Traffic will be backed up onto the main roads. Cars will be furious and will take their anger out on the bicycles. This is crazy.

Blocking traffic on the main roads. Is that the excuse given by multiple bicyclists, blowing thru a stop sign or a traffic light?

chuckster
12-10-2010, 08:27 AM
This oughta be interesting...........:popcorn: