Is this fair?

[Mudder]

Today after golf we went to Lake Sumter Landing for lunch. As we turned into the square we saw lots of tables and chairs set up for tOctoberfest, I saw a man sitting at one table and I remarked, "gosh people are here 4 hours early to get a good spot". Then I looked at the other tables....every single one of them had something on them, a small cooler, a jacket or two, anything and the chairs turned into the table. Obviously saving the tables for this evening. I don't know it just seems a little to much to me to be there at the crack of dawn to save tables, that's jmho. As for us, we'll go to Spanish Springs, who knows may be the same thing is there too. We'll find a spot and enjoy.

[graciegirl]

It bothers me too.

[jblum8156]

I'm afraid this is fairly typical of events in TV. Seems like a lot of people have too much time on their hands.

[BogeyBoy]

Today after golf we went to Lake Sumter Landing for lunch. As we turned into the square we saw lots of tables and chairs set up for tOctoberfest, I saw a man sitting at one table and I remarked, "gosh people are here 4 hours early to get a good spot". Then I looked at the other tables....every single one of them had something on them, a small cooler, a jacket or two, anything and the chairs turned into the table. Obviously saving the tables for this evening. I don't know it just seems a little to much to me to be there at the crack of dawn to save tables, that's jmho. As for us, we'll go to Spanish Springs, who knows may be the same thing is there too. We'll find a spot and enjoy.

My guess is that those items were there at the crack of dawn.

[missypie]

Same thing happens on a cruise ship, saving chairs.

There are ways of stopping this though..........

Anybody gonna take this one on???

[paulandjean]

No problem with me. If I wanted a table and chairs I would get there early also.Seems like a 4th grade problem.

[ConeyIsBabe]

IMHO is is very rude and it should be the responsibility of the Management to prohibit that action unless a real person is physically sitting in one of the chairs :shocked:

[2BNTV]

IMHO is is very rude and it should be the responsibility of the Management to prohibit that action unless a real person is physically sitting in one of the chairs :shocked:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------I agree. If some people have the time to swing by to throw items on chairs, they should have the time to get their early if getting the best seats is important to them. If I person is handicapped, I could see someone trying to accomodate a friend or a family member.
IMHO - Getting there early and sitiing on a chair is the right way to do it and no-one has to get annoyed.
I'm still a wannabe but when I move to TV, I will have to resign myself to the fact this is a frequent occurrence.

I would think an occurence of this nature should be filed under the thread of,
"what I don't like about TV", (Sorry that I don't remember the exact thread off the top of my head0.

[JenAjd]

I still ascribe to the "Golden Rule"...being "do unto others as you would have them do unto you!" I 1st learned this btw in public school back in the 50's. BOY have we digressed over the years.
You will also see this at resorts by the pool...people up at the crack of dawn,scoping out their chairs--reserving them with towels. THEN never showing up in the afternoon so they were doing it "just in case". I've seen alot of behaviors here that mirror junior high school. Wish people would just "chill" and go with the flow. I personally won't be down near the squares due to much of this.....

[vj1213]

We were here last year for our lifestyle visit at the time of the lighting of the Christmas tree. People came and roped off whole rows of chairs as they were being set up. Then they didn't show up until late during the entertainment, so there were several rows of vacant seats throughout the night. What bothered me were there were a lot of disabled people who were standing while there were so many empty chairs.
Maybe this year one of Santa's elves might just have a pair of scissors in their hip pocket!

[Bottaboom]

Simple solution. Just put the item that was saving the table on another saved table and let them duke it out. I have never had the guts to do it but I might someday.

[Bill-n-Brillo]

I've seen the "saving places" occur at car shows in the past. Someone gets there a bit early and puts out chairs, etc. to save a couple of spots for his/her buddies who will arrive later on. But I've also been to some shows that are advertised as "No saving parking spots" and they DO enforce it - people putting on the show will remove any chairs. It does work when enforced!

Don't know how well that would work at a TV event, though....

Bill

[dominick]

Selfish, ignorant people and their "I got mine" mentality are everywhere, not just in TV. They rely on sheeple like me not to challenge them. Maybe,someday soon, the old crazy Dominick will resurface and cause a real nasty scene.

[sandybill2]

Honestly---I don't worry about what "others" do---don't think it is fair--but figure if they want a table bad enough to set up a schedule so that "someone" is always sitting there---they have more time than I do--and it means more to them than it does to me-----Most of the "special nights; i.e.; Italian American Night, Octoberfest, etc,. are basically just like every night at a Town Square--other than the stilt walkers--maybe a parade---and LOTS MORE PEOPLE. I have company --- we got the dinner to go from Red Sauce--picked it up at 4:00---therefore, we could walk around---not get in any lines---know our dinner was at home--ready to be heated and wonderful---Our company enjoyed the walking around and our chicken parm. and ziti from Red Sauce was really good.

[Ajack]

Selfish, ignorant people and their "I got mine" mentality are everywhere, not just in TV. They rely on sheeple like me not to challenge them. Maybe,someday soon, the old crazy Dominick will resurface and cause a real nasty scene.

:beer3: ROTFLMAO Maybe the old crazy me will join you!!!!

[Tweety Bird]

I also saw a big round table with all chairs leaning against the table as if "saved". There was a gallon of water on the ground and a smaller one on top. If I had wanted that table, I would have put the chairs back in place and removed the bottle of waters next to a garbage can...or hid them. I'd like to see someone remove me from that table???? Try prying me off a chair....you just try it!!! I have had it with rude people and there are alot of them in TV. They literally just don't care. hahahaha...and I don't either...hahahahaha... :evil6:

[bluedog103]

I also saw a big round table with all chairs leaning against the table as if "saved". There was a gallon of water on the ground and a smaller one on top. If I had wanted that table, I would have put the chairs back in place and removed the bottle of waters next to a garbage can...or hid them. I'd like to see someone remove me from that table???? Try prying me off a chair....you just try it!!! I have had it with rude people and there are alot of them in TV. They literally just don't care. hahahaha...and I don't either...hahahahaha... :evil6:
Tweety, I like the way you think. Maybe I'll even join you!

[Indydealmaker]

This is kind of activity is the "unintended consequence" of trying to offer free entertainment, which by virtue of being free, cannot pay for sufficient management to offset today's "me and me only" culture. The Golden Rule is not only tarnished; it is corroded.

[Bill-n-Brillo]

I also saw a big round table with all chairs leaning against the table as if "saved". There was a gallon of water on the ground and a smaller one on top. If I had wanted that table, I would have put the chairs back in place and removed the bottle of waters next to a garbage can...or hid them. I'd like to see someone remove me from that table???? Try prying me off a chair....you just try it!!! I have had it with rude people and there are alot of them in TV. They literally just don't care. hahahaha...and I don't either...hahahahaha... :evil6: WHOA!! Call in the guys with the white coats........... :1rotfl: Ha-ha!

Bill

[Ajack]

We were here last year for our lifestyle visit at the time of the lighting of the Christmas tree. People came and roped off whole rows of chairs as they were being set up. Then they didn't show up until late during the entertainment, so there were several rows of vacant seats throughout the night. What bothered me were there were a lot of disabled people who were standing while there were so many empty chairs.
Maybe this year one of Santa's elves might just have a pair of scissors in their hip pocket!

We were here last year on our lifestyle visit at the time of the Christmas tree lighting, too. I seen all those roped off tables and thought that management had done that. Now I'm really peeved.:grumpy:

[tpop1]

I'm not one of the abusers and don't usually attend these events so I was unaware that there were even tables.

Reading these strident posts, however, I did not see many ideas for more equitable, safe way for table selection.

Somehow, I don't see "concert seating" working here, that is opening the tables at a set time and letting everyone rush to grab a table...survival of the fittest??

Anybody have any reasonable ideas to provide equity...maybe lottery table reservations.

Lets get the positive ideas flowing so recommendations can be made to management

[Ajack]

First come, first seated. No reserving or "saving" seats.

[K9-Lovers]

Selfish, ignorant people and their "I got mine" mentality are everywhere, not just in TV. They rely on sheeple like me not to challenge them. Maybe,someday soon, the old crazy Dominick will resurface and cause a real nasty scene.

You should rattle those "spectators" !!

[Larryandlinda]

I also saw a big round table with all chairs leaning against the table as if "saved". There was a gallon of water on the ground and a smaller one on top. If I had wanted that table, I would have put the chairs back in place and removed the bottle of waters next to a garbage can...or hid them. I'd like to see someone remove me from that table???? Try prying me off a chair....you just try it!!! I have had it with rude people and there are alot of them in TV. They literally just don't care. hahahaha...and I don't either...hahahahaha... :evil6:

"Hey Vin, deze guys tink dey own it, and someone left us some cold ones in a cooler!"
Ha , fuhgettaboutit"

Or feeling a little more mellow?
Take the Gump way...
Enjoy the food someone left you, try on the sweaters, and tell em thanks when they return and you're deeeelighted to meet some friendly folk.

Management not responsible for unattended articles.

Besides the 'sweat payment for waiting in line or at the table/chair/area, some places offer premium seating

Since these are no cost events.....that would be tough

In Bawlmer, if you shovel your snow in front of your place, and place a few chairs out there, people are supposed to let you have that space - but it gets violated - the streets are public and parking is not assigned nor reserved

L and L

[VT2TV]

Things like this really bothers me-it is so rude and selfish. It may not work, but I would like to see management make the effort to make rounds every 20-30 mins, and throw away anything set on the tables "to reserve" space". It wouldn't take many times for people to lose their things before they stopped leaving things around. OR, Management should have a line roped off instead of letting people sit down, and about 30-45 mins before the event start let people sit down. Also no saving more than 1 seat per person. This is just wishful thinking, and probably too severe for some, but you shouldn't have to ask adults to be considerate to others.

[redwitch]

I vote with no reserved/saved seats. If you and your friends want those tables and special chairs, put your rear end in 'em and stay in 'em. I've seen it time and again here -- for Rocky n the Rollers, for the parades, tree lightings, etc.

The first time I saw it, I thought maybe the tables were special seating for which you paid. When I found out they were free, I didn't get it. I would love to see someone reserve a spot at the Rose Bowl Parade and not be in it. Their stuff would be moved in a heartbeat.

As to enforcement, it shouldn't be that difficult. There are always volunteers and Community Watch personnel at these events. They take care of parking, preventing traffic from going through, etc. I can't imagine it would take more than an hourly walk around the Square and removing all items on unoccupied tables and having a lost and found area for them. They could explain to anyone sitting at a table that they can save their seat but not seats for others arriving later -- if the people aren't there, they have no seats. And if someone says their friends are in the bathroom or getting food, it isn't that hard to come back 15-30 minutes later and say, "Sorry, but your friend still isn't here; you'll have to release that seat."

How about if you take a table, there is a container on it where you have to deposit $1.00 for every seat you and your friends are going to use or someone who collects the money and gives you a sticker to put on the chair(s)? This money would then be donated to whatever charity takes center stage that month.

The biggest problem would be those who save the tables. I can hear the screams and wails right now. For some it really is a RIGHT to save seats, spots. The fact that it is not right or fair to others is totally irrelevant.

[mac9]

I've never let this bother me. If I go to the square when there is a popular group and there are empty seats, I just sit in one of them. If someone has the audacity to tell me that it is saved, I just say "thank you for your information" and continue to sit there and stare. Never have had a problem. If it belongs to someone who is up and dancing, then I just move when they return.
I've done the same thing during Octoberfest or any of the other events. If a table is not filled, I just pull up and empty seat and sit. If I'm told that it is saved, I merely explain that that is rude and continue to sit. So many times, no one ever claims the seat. People save them just in case a friend shows.
Life is just too short to be affected by these silly games.

[thistrucksforyou]

We were here last year on our lifestyle visit at the time of the Christmas tree lighting, too. I seen all those roped off tables and thought that management had done that. Now I'm really peeved.:grumpy:

HEY.... HOWS COME KNOWONE EVER SAVED A SEAT FOR SUE AND I AT THE TREE LIGHTING ?chilout

[ajbrown]

I vote with no reserved/saved seats. If you and your friends want those tables and special chairs, put your rear end in 'em and stay in 'em. I've seen it time and again here -- for Rocky n the Rollers, for the parades, tree lightings, etc.

<section removed from original post>

:agree:

A simple policy that says NO saving seats (applied with common sense) is the best way IMO. It is not subjective or personal and is fair to everyone.

PS. This is the rule at Mallory Country Club Happy Hour when the bar is filling up.

[BlueHeronFan]

First come, first seated. No reserving or "saving" seats.

Easy policy, easy to enforce, easy for someone else to sit down if not in use.

[Baltimore Guy]

This happens a lot here in the Villages, we went to see the movie Blind Side and a little old lady had a half of a row of seats saved . The seats sat there until after the show started, oh and the house was full.:BigApplause:

[Tweety Bird]

Things like this really bothers me-it is so rude and selfish. It may not work, but I would like to see management make the effort to make rounds every 20-30 mins, and throw away anything set on the tables "to reserve" space". It wouldn't take many times for people to lose their things before they stopped leaving things around. OR, Management should have a line roped off instead of letting people sit down, and about 30-45 mins before the event start let people sit down. Also no saving more than 1 seat per person. This is just wishful thinking, and probably too severe for some, but you shouldn't have to ask adults to be considerate to others.


HAHAHAHA.... LOVE it! Another idea...put their STUFF in a lost and found. Lost and Found open ONLY the next day for retrieval. $1.00 per "look" and a $1.00 for retrieval. Money given to a local charity. Picture taken and placed in a lost and found column in the Daily Sun. Jane Doe, Village of Sunny Seat Saver and John Doe, Village of Rude Crusty Cresthaven
:1rotfl:

[nitehawk]

Big sign "NO TABLES - CHAIRS ONLY" bring your own folding chair or what ever kind of chair you like. If someone leaves more then one chair unattended for more then 15 minutes they will be take to lost and found.

[Ajack]

HAHAHAHA.... LOVE it! Another idea...put their STUFF in a lost and found. Lost and Found open ONLY the next day for retrieval. $1.00 per "look" and a $1.00 for retrieval. Money given to a local charity. Picture taken and placed in a lost and found column in the Daily Sun. Jane Doe, Village of Sunny Seat Saver and John Doe, Village of Rude Crusty Cresthaven
:1rotfl:

Great ideas. Now we need to have someone type these up and deliver to the people in charge. This could be my very first Village improvement campaign. LOL

[graciegirl]

Wouldn't that be a shame to put rules like that in place when most people are caring and respectful of others?

I am sure that those folks who do hold chairs never think that it might annoy or inconvenience others.

I think it boils down to how each of us was raised.

[Ajack]

Wouldn't that be a shame to put rules like that in place when most people are caring and respectful of others?

I am sure that those folks who do hold chairs never think that it might annoy or inconvenience others.

I think it boils down to how each of us was raised.

I usually agree with most of your terrific posts Graciegirl, but I kinda part ways with this one. I think that the thought of annoying people does enter their minds, but somehow they rationalize it.

[graciegirl]

I usually agree with most of your terrific posts Graciegirl, but I kinda part ways with this one. I think that the thought of annoying people does enter their minds, but somehow they rationalize it.

Could be Ajack. Winning through intimidation?

I don't have the b.. I mean the courage...

[Tweety Bird]

Could be Ajack. Winning through intimidation?

I don't have the b.. I mean the courage...

let's hope you don't have b_ _ _ s Gracie! hahaha

[nitehawk]

Wouldn't that be a shame to put rules like that in place when most people are caring and respectful of others?

I am sure that those folks who do hold chairs never think that it might annoy or inconvenience others.

I think it boils down to how each of us was raised.

Most people are honest and law abidings. But not ALL, that's why we have laws for the few who are not. Some people only see the good side. I try to live and let live until it effects me. then it time to stand up for what right.I think it boils down to how each of us was raised.[/QUOTE]
I do not inconvenience other for my own pleasure

[Coconuts]

The folks who save tables and chairs at the Square also go to exercise classes where they stake out their territory (and for their cohorts) with water bottles. I have patiently waited in line for a free sales clerk at a busy store only to have some queen push past because she has "just one quick question" (it's not quick). And then there was my morning at a water aerobics class where a woman entering the pool told me to move because I was standing where she always stands. Reserved seating IN THE WATER. Most people are wonderful. But this thread has uncovered the dirty little secret. The "SPECIAL PEOPLE" who live here. Do you suspect they may also be the speed demons in their golf carts? :loco:

[Mudder]

I'm with you, Dominick !!

[AnonChick]

Here's what I did when I was visiting a casino resort in Vegas and all the seats at the pool were occupied by towels and random other things, while no one was actually IN the pool:

I would stand near the chair I wanted to sit for five minutes. If no one showed up, I would move all those random other things, and the towel, to the chair next to me. On top of the towel and random other things that were already there.

Every single time, without fail, I was able to occupy that "reserved" seat without being troubled by whoever "reserved" it showing up to reclaim it. Upon leaving, I would simply move all the items back where they were when I showed up.

If people can't have the courtesy to BE THERE in the seat they claim they want badly enough to deposit their belongings, then they'll just have to suck it up when someone who actually wants to sit, does so.

[RichieLion]

During this past Christmas Celebration at LSL we were walking around enjoying the atmosphere when we came upon a table that was filled with some friends, so we joined them. One of my buddies told me they saw the table with all the chairs tipped and a garland around them and nobody sitting. They removed the garland, sat down and enjoyed their meal and the entertainment. My wife and I got our own food and rejoined them. About an hour after we sat a woman came over and asked "wasn't this table saved?" and my buddy said, "We've been sitting here for 2 hours and don't know what you mean about saved tables". She walked away and we enjoyed the activities well past the tree lighting.

[EdV]

This is not the first time that this problem has been discussed in TOTV. Management should recognize this problem and take action. Here’s my solution:

Place a big sign at the back that says “No reserving seats. Any personal items left unattended for more than 15 minutes should be placed here – THE MANAGEMENT!”

Then we can all pick up this “Squatter Fodder” when we see it and place it in the designated area as directed by The Management.

[NJblue]

I too think it is not right to save tables and chairs for an extended time. However, I have learned that the people who do this are not necessarily rude and uncaring. We have neighbors who are among the most thoughtful people we have met ... not just to us (because we are "neighbors") but to everyone. However, I was taken aback when they told me they went to the square early to reserve seats for the Rocky and the Rollers concert later that day.

Does this single act make them rude? No, I think they are probably from an environment where this is accepted behavior and not considered rude at all.

[2BNTV]

In a word, "no".

Can someone saved a seat for me at the Christmas tree lighting? I should be down at TV some time next spring. Just Kidding!

This type of behavior reminds me of a small child who has no concept of anything going around them. I sometimes lament on the lack of courtesy and co-operation in the world that seems to be getting less and less as I get older. :(

If one sits so close to the stage, are they in the performance? :)

Come on, folks. Lets have some consideration for others.

[graciegirl]

I too think it is not right to save tables and chairs for an extended time. However, I have learned that the people who do this are not necessarily rude and uncaring. We have neighbors who are among the most thoughtful people we have met ... not just to us (because we are "neighbors") but to everyone. However, I was taken aback when they told me they went to the square early to reserve seats for the Rocky and the Rollers concert later that day.

Does this single act make them rude? No, I think they are probably from an environment where this is accepted behavior and not considered rude at all.

That is how I see it. However it would be considered rude where I come from.

We are all so alike and so different.

[redwitch]

NJB -- Maybe you should send your friends to this thread so they can see how the majority feels about their behavior. I'll even bet you 50 cents that it won't make a bit of difference to them -- they will continue to save the seats. Even nice people do things that is considered rude by others and see no reason to stop.

[dillywho]

The practice should be eliminated and everyone on a first-come basis. Afterall, TV is for everyone, not just a select few. We were at SS yesterday and got there early enough to get a good seat and be in the shade. Right in front of us were chairs tied together and whoever had done so still hadn't shown up when we left long after the parade. You want a seat, get there and sit in it. I can see saving one or two if you have plans with someone and get there first, but not a whole row and not for long. Certainly not for all day.
If they don't make it within 20 minutes of the agreed time, then let it go.

[Bogie Shooter]

In the eight years I have been in TV, there never has been anything published regarding this issue of saving tables/seats. Seems if there was a position stated those sweet folks who don't know they are being rude, would have an awakning.
BTW if someone wants to got to the square at 10:00AM and sit at a table until the parade starts at 4:45pm, thats OK with me.(the parades are nice but never saw one worth waiting 6-7 hours for). I too object to the cooler "sitters".

[scrapple]

I say sit on the empty chairs until the person comes for them.

[scarecrow1]

Don't have public tables and chairs. Bring your own, then they are yours. If you want to get there early with YOUR table and chair then you can reserve the spot. As for the way they do it now I'll sit in any chair I like. I'm 6'6" and 300 lbs and I'd like to see someone remove me from a so called saved seat.

[Pturner]

This is not the first time that this problem has been discussed in TOTV. Management should recognize this problem and take action. Here�s my solution:

Place a big sign at the back that says �No reserving seats. Any personal items left unattended for more than 15 minutes should be placed here � THE MANAGEMENT!�

Then we can all pick up this �Squatter Fodder� when we see it and place it in the designated area as directed by The Management.

I think simple signs that say "no reserve seating" should suffice. These are free events, so I don't think management should have to hassle with collecting people's stuff and dealing with any subsequent ranting.

"No reserved seating" signs would give Villagers the go ahead to simply move items place on "saved" seat and place the items beside (or under) the seat. If the owner returns, the seated Villager could politely point out the sign/ rules against saving seats, and let the owner take his/her belongings.

[memason]

Here's the deal... Lets say that I don't read TOTV and I don't know how everyone on here feels about the saved/reserved seats/tables. So, I get to TV; a brand new Villager and go to the square or any other event where I am not able to get a seat, since they are all reserved or "saved". What do I do at the next event I want to attend? Exactly, I go early and "save" my spot, because that's what they do in TV. Right?

I think the best solution would be to have signs stating no reserved seating, etc. They certainly have signs that you cannot smoke in the square and even make a VERY LOUD announcement telling everyone smoking is not allowed. What's the difference...

Bottomline....When in Rome, do as the Romans do. So, in a sorta goofy, backhanded way, I think I'm defending the practice.

Just keeping it real....

[ladylake1]

Seem to recall the same situation occurred when TV had a New Year's Eve event. People set up chairs and tables way way ahead of time. As it turned out, they cancelled New Year's Eve celebration. There should be some limit to how long something can be "reserved."

[NJblue]

Here's the deal... Lets say that I don't read TOTV and I don't know how everyone on here feels about the saved/reserved seats/tables. So, I get to TV; a brand new Villager and go to the square or any other event where I am not able to get a seat, since they are all reserved or "saved". What do I do at the next event I want to attend? Exactly, I go early and "save" my spot, because that's what they do in TV. Right?

I think the best solution would be to have signs stating no reserved seating, etc. They certainly have signs that you cannot smoke in the square and even make a VERY LOUD announcement telling everyone smoking is not allowed. What's the difference...

Bottomline....When in Rome, do as the Romans do. So, in a sorta goofy, backhanded way, I think I'm defending the practice.

Just keeping it real....

I think you have nailed it. For all I know my neighbors did exactly that ... they saw what everyone else was doing and assumed that's the "Village Way". Until signs are posted and/or announcements are made, things are not likely to change.

[graciegirl]

What we usually do is take those lightweight chairs and find a place for the three of us....hoping not to block the view of the original SITTERS. No fun for me if I am being glared at.

Memason....there is lot of sense in how you put it. I don't think many people mean ill, but it is aggravating when they don't come and sit on those chairs.

In my art class there is a person who takes up the whole table that is set up for two, which is not a problem except when the class is filled and someone is turned away.

It is unusual, and people don't know just how to approach someone like that.

Although some peoples' meat and drink is to have some sort of confrontation.
That is how they are made.

I was born and still am a card carrying sissy.

[Ajack]

I don't think it would take very many confrontations before word spreads. It could shift the other way in no time. :crap2:

[Bill-n-Brillo]

I think simple signs that say "no reserve seating" should suffice. These are free events, so I don't think management should have to hassle with collecting people's stuff and dealing with any subsequent ranting.

"No reserved seating" signs would give Villagers the go ahead to simply move items place on "saved" seat and place the items beside (or under) the seat. If the owner returns, the seated Villager could politely point out the sign/ rules against saving seats, and let the owner take his/her belongings.

This makes good sense to me! :)

Bill

[Indydealmaker]

Eliminate free seating for special events. Rope off the square. Have a vendor employing some of our residents rent chairs for $5 each starting one hour prior to event. People are less likely to fork over the moolah for their friends who have not yet arrived. Those that currently and quite reasonably feel arriving around an hour prior to an event is practical can then have increased chances of attending. For those horrified by the prospect of actually paying for entertainment, the funds can go to charity. I have found that if you want to induce people to start acting reasonably, money is an effective inducement.

[Tweety Bird]

I too think it is not right to save tables and chairs for an extended time. However, I have learned that the people who do this are not necessarily rude and uncaring. We have neighbors who are among the most thoughtful people we have met ... not just to us (because we are "neighbors") but to everyone. However, I was taken aback when they told me they went to the square early to reserve seats for the Rocky and the Rollers concert later that day.

Does this single act make them rude? No, I think they are probably from an environment where this is accepted behavior and not considered rude at all.

YES...the act of reserving seats for Rocky and the Rollers ahead of time IS rude. Let them get there early and put their keesters in the seat AT THE TIME OF THEIR ARRIVAL. This is NOT a theater with ticket purchases with seat and row number on it. Take their little sweater, jacket or plastic water bottle and TOSS it in the nearby planter. They have NO right!!! Let them rant and rave and act like the idiots that they are. I will bring my camera, take their picture and post it! :girlneener: Better yet..ask them...where's your ticket???????

[Tweety Bird]

The practice should be eliminated and everyone on a first-come basis. Afterall, TV is for everyone, not just a select few. We were at SS yesterday and got there early enough to get a good seat and be in the shade. Right in front of us were chairs tied together and whoever had done so still hadn't shown up when we left long after the parade. You want a seat, get there and sit in it. I can see saving one or two if you have plans with someone and get there first, but not a whole row and not for long. Certainly not for all day.
If they don't make it within 20 minutes of the agreed time, then let it go.

Bring a scissor and cut the cord!

[Tweety Bird]

Here's the deal... Lets say that I don't read TOTV and I don't know how everyone on here feels about the saved/reserved seats/tables. So, I get to TV; a brand new Villager and go to the square or any other event where I am not able to get a seat, since they are all reserved or "saved". What do I do at the next event I want to attend? Exactly, I go early and "save" my spot, because that's what they do in TV. Right?

I think the best solution would be to have signs stating no reserved seating, etc. They certainly have signs that you cannot smoke in the square and even make a VERY LOUD announcement telling everyone smoking is not allowed. What's the difference...

Bottomline....When in Rome, do as the Romans do. So, in a sorta goofy, backhanded way, I think I'm defending the practice.

Just keeping it real....

Your "reality" does not impress me.

I will print out my own signs NO RESERVED SEATING and put them on the table. I will have them in the car in a folder for the appropriate time. I'm "keeping it real"

[memason]

Your "reality" does not impress me.

I will print out my own signs NO RESERVED SEATING and put them on the table. I will have them in the car in a folder for the appropriate time. I'm "keeping it real"

Well, I wasn't trying to impress you... it what it is...my opinion. From my experience, it's easier to determine "why" something is happening and then try to come up with a solution. You can rant on TOTV 'til hell freezes over and nothings gonna change.

If you print your signs and put them on the tables, I applaud you! You are actually doing something about the perceived problem, besides complaining.

Go get 'em Tweety Bird

[AnonChick]

This whole passive-aggressive stuff is mindboggling to me. When in Rome? They didn't KNOW? How could they not know? The concept of "sharing" is something taught in kindergarten. The concept of "don't claim what isn't yours" is something taught right along with the concept of sharing.

Are you really all justifying rude, childish, selfish behavior as ignorance? You're excusing it, patronising the offender, and saying "oh there there, it's okay, you just didn't know."

Of course they knew. I mean unless they were brought up in 'the hood' where turf wars are faught with knives and guns and every man for himself and if little Susie didn't carve her name in blood on the chair, then someone else was gonna steal it from her...

But I'm getting the impression that the Villages has a slightly higher caliber of residents.

The poachers know better. But they know you'll excuse them, and justify them, and not say anything to them, and probably even become one of them if they keep doing it enough times. And so they'll continue to poach.

[Coconuts]

This whole passive-aggressive stuff is mindboggling to me. When in Rome? They didn't KNOW? How could they not know? The concept of "sharing" is something taught in kindergarten. The concept of "don't claim what isn't yours" is something taught right along with the concept of sharing.

Are you really all justifying rude, childish, selfish behavior as ignorance? You're excusing it, patronising the offender, and saying "oh there there, it's okay, you just didn't know."

Of course they knew. I mean unless they were brought up in 'the hood' where turf wars are faught with knives and guns and every man for himself and if little Susie didn't carve her name in blood on the chair, then someone else was gonna steal it from her...

But I'm getting the impression that the Villages has a slightly higher caliber of residents.

The poachers know better. But they know you'll excuse them, and justify them, and not say anything to them, and probably even become one of them if they keep doing it enough times. And so they'll continue to poach.

What she said.:agree:

[Talk Host]

On our very first visit to The Villages in 2002 we were greeted by some friends from back home who had already moved here. It was the night of the Marti Gras parade. (back when it was really, really nice and big). Anyway, they said, "Let's all go to the parade tonight, we went down and set up chairs early this morning."

My response was, "won't somebody steal them or move them or something?" The response was, "no, that's what everybody in the Villages does, it's the accepted practice." So, very early on we were under the impression everybody was good with it. We've never done it though for the reasons cited here.


As an interesting side note about that parade, there were two women standing next to me. Somebody on a float was throwing out those 2 cent Marti Gras necklaces. Both of the women caught it at the same time and began a tug of war and shoving match over that stupid cheesy string of plastic beads. Finally, the string broke and the beads flew all over the place, but the women kept shoving each other until some guys broke it up. I looked at my wife and said, "Hmmmmmmmm" Florida's friendliest home town!" Have never seen anything like it since.

JLK

[Bogie Shooter]

As an interesting side note about that parade, there were two women standing next to me. Somebody on a float was throwing out those 2 cent Marti Gras necklaces. Both of the women caught it at the same time and began a tug of war and shoving match over that stupid cheesy string of plastic beads. Finally, the string broke and the beads flew all over the place, but the women kept shoving each other until some guys broke it up. I looked at my wife and said, "Hmmmmmmmm" Florida's friendliest home town!" Have never seen anything like it since.

JLK

In 2002 the margarita's had more of a punch!:cool:

[Talk Host]

In 2002 the margarita's had more of a punch!:cool:

I'm guessing you're right.

[BobKat1]

I might start a thread, "Are the margarita's served in TV getting weaker?"

[Ajack]

I might start a thread, "Are the margarita's served in TV getting weaker?"

Maybe the villagers have just created a higher tolerance?:beer3:

[bargee]

This will continue until there is a serious confrontation and someone is injured and the next night we will show up to find no chairs set out and we will be notifed that you will here after bring your own chairs.Don't think that will happen,remember the Buffalo?Come on folks lets be fair,if you want to sit get there early,otherwise bring your own seats.No Saving.

[iandwk]

My wife and I just purchased the silver pass to Silver Springs. We wanted it mainly for the concerts coming up this winter. We asked the lady at the gate how it worked, and she said that people generally come in when they open the park at 9am and bring their chairs and place them in front of the stage. She said no one ever bothers them. Then they leave the park and come back in time for the show around 3pm. It reminded me of this thread.

The difference is the park doesn't provide chairs. If you want to sit and watch the show you bring your own. If I wanted to reserve a spot in TV for an event, I would bring my own chair and leave it. I doubt anyone would be so bold as to claim it as their own, and I can't see why anyone would complain about it.

We always carry our own chairs when going to the squares anyway. Much more comfortable.

[Pturner]

Eliminate free seating for special events. Rope off the square. Have a vendor employing some of our residents rent chairs for $5 each starting one hour prior to event. People are less likely to fork over the moolah for their friends who have not yet arrived. Those that currently and quite reasonably feel arriving around an hour prior to an event is practical can then have increased chances of attending. For those horrified by the prospect of actually paying for entertainment, the funds can go to charity. I have found that if you want to induce people to start acting reasonably, money is an effective inducement.

I think that would be a shame, and it's not about the $5. Free concerts and events on the square are part of what makes TV TV. It's cultural. It's part of our fabric, our magic sauce, our Kool aide.

I'm not in favor of letting a few bad apples spoil the bunch. Take something of value away from everybody because of of the deeds of some? Why? Better to advocate for a posted "no saving seats" policy. Give notice in the Daily Fun. Have CW around to enforce it the first few times until it becomes known.

"I'll show you" inducement policies are lose lose. Let's be more creative than that!

[Indydealmaker]

I think that would be a shame, and it's not about the $5. Free concerts and events on the square are part of what makes TV TV. It's cultural. It's part of our fabric, our magic sauce, our Kool aide.

I'm not in favor of letting a few bad apples spoil the bunch. Take something of value away from everybody because of of the deeds of some? Why? Better to advocate for a posted "no saving seats" policy. Give notice in the Daily Fun. Have CW around to enforce it the first few times until it becomes known.

"I'll show you" inducement policies are lose lose. Let's be more creative than that!

I totally agree that establishing a rule and making that rule known to all is a much better solution than to modify the established "free" approach. I am hopeful, but doubtful, that would work when rules in general don't seem to mean anything anymore (illegally modified golf carts, speeders, red light runners, blocking golf carts against the curb with your cart, cutting in line, under-age residents, etc. etc.) You are absolutely right in acknowledging that a few bad apples do the spoiling, but the spoiling seems oblivious to rules and laws, particularly because all too often enforcement is "missing in action". Lack of consequences for socially undesirable behavior feeds and nurtures the growth of bad actions. The actions of the minority are all too often exponentially deteriorating to our Quality of Life. Well that is my rant for the day.

[Talk Host]

Lack of consequences for socially undesirable behavior feeds and nurtures the growth of bad actions. The actions of the minority are all too often exponentially deteriorating to our Quality of Life. Well that is my rant for the day.

This applies directly to the discussion of speeding golf carts too. The actions of a few mandate that rules be made and enforced, otherwise the minority actions become the norm for the majority.

[Challenger]

This applies directly to the discussion of speeding golf carts too. The actions of a few mandate that rules be made and enforced, otherwise the minority actions become the norm for the majority.

concur

[graciegirl]

Not to worry. I am planning for me and PTurner and Redwitch to walk around and beat the crap outta anyone who is saving chairs.

I haven't asked them yet, but we could wear black shirts that say "If you touch a chair, your fanny better sit in it" and carry squirt guns too.

At the post office in our home town there are signs that say "Please be considerate of others by not using your cell phone".

Works sometimes..........

[bkcunningham1]

I think this may be the only solution.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_mb_c8su7k

[Ajack]

LOL That's a good one BK. As I was watching the video I was envisioning that the kids were geezers. :1rotfl:

[Pturner]

Not to worry. I am planning for me and PTurner and Redwitch to walk around and beat the crap outta anyone who is saving chairs.

I haven't asked them yet, but we could wear black shirts that say "If you touch a chair, your fanny better sit in it" and carry squirt guns too.

At the post office in our home town there are signs that say "Please be considerate of others by not using your cell phone".

Works sometimes..........

We can use the arms that they are replacing at the gates as our "police sticks".:police:

[Boomer]

Not to worry. I am planning for me and PTurner and Redwitch to walk around and beat the crap outta anyone who is saving chairs.

I haven't asked them yet, but we could wear black shirts that say "If you touch a chair, your fanny better sit in it" and carry squirt guns too.

At the post office in our home town there are signs that say "Please be considerate of others by not using your cell phone".

Works sometimes..........


Or maybe your shirts could say Chair Traffic Controller.

Boomer

[bkcunningham1]

Or maybe your shirts could say Chair Traffic Controller.

Boomer


:1rotfl: You are too funny.

Or their shirts could say, "Seat inspector." That could be fun under the right circumstances.

[Pturner]

Hmmm, I guess we'll be operating by the seat of our pants.

[K9-Lovers]

All you need to get control of any situation is AnonChick. She'll shoot 'em in the knees.

[Ajack]

:a20::1rotfl: You guys crack me up. Just came back from watching RED at Sumter Square and now I get a belly laugh before bedtime.

[AnonChick]

Of course I'd shoot'em in the knees. That way, they'd HAVE to actually SIT in those chairs they claimed.

In the words of Kelly Bundy: It ain't rocket surgery ya know.

[paulandjean]

I still do not see the problem.How many times dates are we talking about. 6 or 7 times a year.If you want good seats go there early. Sounds again like a 4 grade problem.Stop complaining.

[AnonChick]

You're not understanding the problem, if you think that's the solution. The problem is people -do- go there sometimes several -hours- early, and "claim" seats by putting things on them, or roping them off. They do this expecting that no one will take those seats. And then, they leave. And sometimes they'll come back for the event, sometimes they won't. In the meantime, people who show up between the time the seats were "claimed" and the time of the show, see all these empty seats, and don't sit in them, because they were supposedly claimed by people who *ARE NOT THERE* to sit in them.

This is unfair for the people who are willing to actually sit down while they wait for the event. It is the same mentality that has people on cruise ships showing up at 6 in the morning to claim seats at the pool, then go off to spend their day, show up at 1 in the afternoon, knowing that no one took "their" seat - and dozens of people who want to actually sit at those seats, dare not, because they think the "claimant" will show up any minute. And of course, they don't, because they put towels there knowing that no one will move them. It's a herd mentality and it's incredibly effective. It's also incredibly manipulative and unfair.

[Walt.]

It would be easy to enforce a "no saving tables" (or chairs) rule. Just put a notice on each table that reads "Items Left Unattended Longer Than 30 Minutes Will Be Removed and Discarded." Than maybe every hour or so a staff member could just walk through the area and upon seeing sweaters, bottles (or what have you) leave a post-it note with the time stuck on the table. Thirty minutes is time enough to park etc.
At the next walk-through if the items are still there unattended take them away. The post-it would be the simple way to see if enough time has elapsed. Maybe do this until about an hour before the show/event.
When the inconsiderate jerks show up later and other people are sitting in "their" place they may start to get the message.

[Challenger]

Controlling overeaching "place savers" probably takes different strategies in various situations. This is a problem everywhere that we have lived. In some cases parade routes are claimed 24 or more hrs in advance. At the Master's Tournament fans place chairs at greens hours in advance and no one touches the seat. No complaints there from other attendees. Obviously different traditions prevail in many areas.

IMO and from previous clashes over these issues I have found when the controlling authority adopts a reasonable rule , posts it in prominent places, and provides a modicum of enforcement, the problem is significantly reduced.
We all know that "the jerks" will be there always, but most will willingly cooperate.

[Bryan]

Walt and Challenger both have good ideas - ideas that would actually work......EXCEPT their ideas "assume" (we all know what happens when you 'assume') that the powers-that-be actually have the cojones to post signs and then police up unattended items reserving seats. I have never seen any demonstration of that level of intestinal fortitude from the Entertainment Department, Special Events staff, nor Community Watch. Therefore there are only three chances that these great ideas will be implemented by anyone in authority - FAT, SLIM, and NONE!

[graciegirl]

Don't be pickin' on the Morses, Bryan. I doubt that they are gonna get heavy handed about this because it isn't "FRIENDLY". They would be forced to be MORE rude and uncaring than the people who aren't thinking of others and just where would that get you?? I think they have enough sense to stay out of a p***ing contest. There isn't much of a way to enforce the rule, how would YOU do it if you were in charge?

How would you word the sign?

What would the consequences be?

I can't think of a civil ordinance that has been breached, so the sheriff's office would be unable to have any teeth.

How would you really handle it if you were The developer? It isn't quite as easy to enforce as a deed restriction. Would you penalize all of the people who show up to sit down? Would you penalize just the original sweater placer or ribbon hanger? Would you barr them from the squares? Would you remove their rights to dance? I can't think of a penalty.

[redwitch]

Gracie, no one -- not the Morses, not the entertainment department, not Community Watch -- would need to do more than post signs that seat saving would no longer be allowed and items left on seats would be removed. There doesn't have to be penalties. The seats being available to those who are there and sitting in them would be enough and having to go through a pile of junk to find their personal junk should be enough. Remember, they were willing to reserve table for a price with no free table seating (until the screaming got too loud) for New Year's Eve. Of course, that might be the solution -- charge to save the tables (not the chairs in the Squares, just the tables).

It is not just an issue at the parade events. Look how many seats are reserved early in the day when Rocky and the Rollers are performing. It's ridiculous. I once counted 78 chairs being reserved for them, all before noon.

I also believe no one should be allowed to save more than 4 seats for themselves and others. If someone doesn't show up when the parade/show starts, those saved seats should be up for grabs. No saving for latecomers. It really isn't fair to others.

[AnonChick]

I don't think it needs to be turned into a rule. It's not a rule anywhere else really, it's more a matter of courtesy vs. selfishness, and the consequences of natural order.

Basically - they put up a sign reminding everyone that the management will not be held responsible for the seats, or anything left on the seats, if those seats are abandoned by their "reservers."

And then, the people who want to actually SIT in them - do so.

And then, the reservers return, find "their" seats are occupied, and they can't do diddly about it and have to suck it up and find somewhere else to sit.

Because the management has already warned them that they reserve seats at their own risk, there's nothing more to do about it.

[graciegirl]

Gracie, no one -- not the Morses, not the entertainment department, not Community Watch -- would need to do more than post signs that seat saving would no longer be allowed and items left on seats would be removed. There doesn't have to be penalties. The seats being available to those who are there and sitting in them would be enough and having to go through a pile of junk to find their personal junk should be enough. Remember, they were willing to reserve table for a price with no free table seating (until the screaming got too loud) for New Year's Eve. Of course, that might be the solution -- charge to save the tables (not the chairs in the Squares, just the tables).

It is not just an issue at the parade events. Look how many seats are reserved early in the day when Rocky and the Rollers are performing. It's ridiculous. I once counted 78 chairs being reserved for them, all before noon.

I also believe no one should be allowed to save more than 4 seats for themselves and others. If someone doesn't show up when the parade/show starts, those saved seats should be up for grabs. No saving for latecomers. It really isn't fair to others.

As you can see I feel quarrelsome today.

You have made excellent points Red, and I can see where this could work. However it would require more paid manpower to remove objects from chairs and to oversee their return, all day, both squares.

And someone will tell me that the developers are as rich as Croesus and it won't make a dent.

But in any business money is a consideration and the bottom line. Someone would have to be there all day, and be available to give back the sweater or whatever. It would be a royal pain in the neck. But you may well have the correct answer.

[dillywho]

It would be interesting if some of the seat-savers would weigh in on this, wouldn't it? So far, I haven't seen any comments by any of them.

On another note, if we choose to sit in a "saved, reserved, whatever the verbage seat", what can the saver to about it other than yell? If someone gets physical, could charges not be filed against them? I would think so.

When we went to SS on Oktoberfest, some guy put some chairs in front of the front row that someone had established. Needless to say, when told by those he got in front of that he couldn't do that, he told them "that until someone with the authority to do so tells me I can't, then I'm sitting here"....and he did. (BTW, you could look across the "aisle" and his chairs were actually in line.):clap2:

[redwitch]

However it would require more paid manpower to remove objects from chairs and to oversee their return, all day, both squares.


Let TV put the signs up. I'm sure those who want to sit will be happy to move the stuff to a "lost and found" pile. If owners lose stuff because someone picks through the pile for goodies, their loss. No extra manpower needed. (You're in a quarrelsome mood, I'm very non-sympathetic today.)

[graciegirl]

Do you think it is THAT time of the month?

Oh...right..ain't happnin'.:1rotfl::1rotfl:

Just pure cussed meanness on my part.

Sorry.

[vj1213]

Well, in my own little humble opinion, roping off the chairs could easily be solved, by whoever is in charge of setting out the seats and later the people who patrol the area, simply remove the ropes during the day. (I was at the square last year during the Christmas setup and people were standing with the ropes as the chairs were being set up) I don't have a problem if you bring your own chairs and leave them all day...no one will bother them.
The tables, well as far as people setting stuff on them, they are doing so with the assumption that they will still be there...do they not think that unattended items can and do get stolen everyday...so in my opinion, toss it in a box and let them dig for it, no one has to be there to give back the items they left them there unattended in the first place.

[graciegirl]

You know, the more I think about it, the better I like it.

It probably wouldn't take long to get the point across.

[Ajack]

Do you think it is THAT time of the month?

Oh...right..ain't happnin'.:1rotfl::1rotfl:

Just pure cussed meanness on my part.

Sorry.

We pay our bills the 1st every month, too. Kinda makes me a little edgy.:D

[Challenger]

The simple act of posting signs regarding the issues would serve to encourage compliance from those who follow most rules in their lives. It would also "empower" folks to use the selfishly reserved seats and would put abusers on notice that their efforts to "sequester" the prime seating would probably not work. I don't think more draconian measures will be needed once the issue is broached. In any case it is worth a try. As we have discused, there are different norms for these problems in various venues and we need to establish the pattern here.

[taylor111947]

Can I offer one more suggestion?

Before a big event, print up a certain number of 'Reserved Seat' tickets or stickers (say at $5/ticket) to be offered for sale. Allow 4 tickets/person. Tickets can be placed in seats or on chairs starting at a certain time prior to the event. Then there would be no need for policing. Proceeds from the tickets could go to charity.

I too, find it odd that of all the responses I don't think any have been in favor of the way things are done today. Is there any way of enacting a change based upon a vote of some kind?

[Ajack]

Can I offer one more suggestion?

Before a big event, print up a certain number of 'Reserved Seat' tickets or stickers (say at $5/ticket) to be offered for sale. Allow 4 tickets/person. Tickets can be placed in seats or on chairs starting at a certain time prior to the event. Then there would be no need for policing. Proceeds from the tickets could go to charity.

I too, find it odd that of all the responses I don't think any have been in favor of the way things are done today. Is there any way of enacting a change based upon a vote of some kind?

Charging for "saving seats" sounds like a great idea.Something tells me that most seat savers are not big spenders. LOL

[Indydealmaker]

When I suggested charging to rent chairs, a popular response was that this changed the "flavor" of TV. In other words our "free" stuff was part of TV culture. I still say this little controversy is an example of a tried and true axiom: "There ain't no such thang as a free lunch." In this instance, we pay in discomfort and grief caused by a lack of civility in others.

[AnonChick]

The new idea on the table isn't renting chairs. It's buying a reservation. In other words - you don't have to rent a chair, to get a seat. ANYONE can sit at ANY available seat, for free. That wouldn't change.

However, a specific section of limited seating would be made available for people who want to reserve their seats in advance. People who want to be guaranteed not "a" seat - but "that" seat.

They can reserve "that" seat in advance, but they'd have to pay for the privilege of doing so. Currently, they do it anyway, and don't pay anything. So they have nothing to lose if they don't show up, or get there late.

Meanwhile, everyone else who just wants the opportunity to sit down, can sit wherever there are seats, and not pay a dime, because they're not "claiming" seats in advance.

[Bottaboom]

Paying for reserved seating is not the answer. Some people just don't have that extra cash to pay for a seat to see a free event. Besides, I always thought that TV was a "Status Free" community. The only answer (if there is one) is to remove any left articles and have a seat. If someone comes to claim "Their seat" just give them back their articles without a word and I'm sure they will get the point.

[Ajack]

Paying for reserved seating is not the answer. Some people just don't have that extra cash to pay for a seat to see a free event. Besides, I always thought that TV was a "Status Free" community. The only answer (if there is one) is to remove any left articles and have a seat. If someone comes to claim "Their seat" just give them back their articles without a word and I'm sure they will get the point.

That is exactly what I have decided to do. I will treat items as if they were accidentally left behind and when and if they come for them, I will point to where they are.

[graciegirl]

There is no vote on this. It will happen or it won't happen and that bothers some, but not me.

It is this kind of thing that when placed in the hands of the residents as it will be in the future will cause all kinds of havoc. I am happy to have it the way it is for now.

I still say that the powers here in Oz read this forum. We will see. We will see.

They are doing pretty good if you ask me.

[taylor111947]

I was looking for a solution that would make everyone happy and avoid conflict or confrontation - personally, I would have trouble removing someone's belongings. If having to 'buy' a reserved seat ticket would be a financial burden, then give tickets away first come/first served, but still allow only a limited number/person and restrict the total number tickets available.

[uujudy]

Gosh, I've always just sat down wherever there's a seat at a table!
I just assumed (oops!) that the good folks already sitting there with empty seats wanted some company. You can meet the most interesting people this way! They seat people together at Hacienda Hills whenever they're crowded, and it's fun.

We also did this outside at the bar at Redsauce during the Italianfest parade. Two people at a table for four = 2 empty seats. Of course I always ask, "May we join you?" and after their initial confusion (Do we know you? Who are these pushy people?) they always say yes. They do it in Europe all the time. Maybe we can just pretend we're all Europeans from now on?

European Judy

[Bottaboom]

[QUOTE=graciegirl;304260]There is no vote on this. It will happen or it won't happen and that bothers some, but not me.

Exactly, it doesn't bother me either. Enforcing rules is not the way. Everyone should deal with this in any way they feel comfortable. For me, if I wanted the seat bad enough I would remove their belonging and give them back when and if the owner returns. Like Ajack said I would assume they were left there by accident.

No more from me on this subject, I've better things to do.

[Ajack]

I was looking for a solution that would make everyone happy and avoid conflict or confrontation - personally, I would have trouble removing someone's belongings. If having to 'buy' a reserved seat ticket would be a financial burden, then give tickets away first come/first served, but still allow only a limited number/person and restrict the total number tickets available.

"Tickets" would take away from the "free" and casual culture that has been the norm here. One thing we do not want is someone or a committee to get involved and mess everything up.

This culture of seat saving started with individuals and should change by individuals. I think that once a few bold people start sitting where there are empty seats, regardless of articles left behind, the word will spread like wildfire that seat saving is not going to happen without the risk of losing possessions.

[scarecrow1]

There is no vote on this. It will happen or it won't happen and that bothers some, but not me.

It is this kind of thing that when placed in the hands of the residents as it will be in the future will cause all kinds of havoc. I am happy to have it the way it is for now.

I still say that the powers here in Oz read this forum. We will see. We will see.

They are doing pretty good if you ask me.

I'm from OZ and I say no reserved seats. Put up signs saying "seats available on first come basis occupide only".:wave:

[dillywho]

I was looking for a solution that would make everyone happy and avoid conflict or confrontation - personally, I would have trouble removing someone's belongings. If having to 'buy' a reserved seat ticket would be a financial burden, then give tickets away first come/first served, but still allow only a limited number/person and restrict the total number tickets available.

Tickets, free or otherwise, won't work for several reasons.

Why can the seats not just be on a first-come first-served basis in the first place? If you want a particular seat/position, get there and physically sit in it ... period. Not everyone stays from start to finish of any event. As people get up and leave, others take their place on this very basis...no problem, no questions asked. As someone else suggested, just bring your own seat if you want to be assured of sitting. Otherwise, stand until someone leaves. Besides, is it really necessary that you (the word "you" being general as in the rest of the post .. suppose it would actually be grammatically correct to use "one" instead..oh well:shrug:) always have the "best" seat in the place? Just more of the me, me, me mentality IMHO.

[Ajack]

Tickets, free or otherwise, won't work for several reasons.

Why can the seats not just be on a first-come first-served basis in the first place? If you want a particular seat/position, get there and physically sit in it ... period. Not everyone stays from start to finish of any event. As people get up and leave, others take their place on this very basis...no problem, no questions asked. As someone else suggested, just bring your own seat if you want to be assured of sitting. Otherwise, stand until someone leaves. Besides, is it really necessary that you (the word "you" being general as in the rest of the post .. suppose it would actually be grammatically correct to use "one" instead..oh well:shrug:) always have the "best" seat in the place? Just more of the me, me, me mentality IMHO.

Yes, as great as this place is, there is a percentage, like everywhere in the world, of people who have the attitude of "I got mine-and the heck with everybody else"

The host will always have parasites.

[K9-Lovers]

This has become a long discussion with several solutions being offered. There is one thing that we have all seemed to forget, though: human nature.

Human nature dictates that there will not be people to track the minutes items are unattended, patrol tables and chairs, remove items, and be available for their retrieval. That would take too many people and too much time. So forget the idea of the "Polite Police".

There will always be rude people and polite people. No matter what rules are imposed, the rude people will ignore them, and the very polite people will obey.

With rules & signs ~ or not ~ the rude people will continue to save seats, and the polite people will be too polite to rudely remove them.

Now, if all the polite people put their heads together and decide to overthrow the seat-saving-culture here in TV, then things could change. If all the polite people begin to remove the belongings of the seat/table-savers and tear down their barriers and ropes, then saving seats or tables would no longer be effective.

BUT, human nature predicts that polite people do not want to be rude. Therefore, no matter what . . . items will not be removed, seats will be saved, and polite people will continue to be annoyed.

C'est la vie.

[BigLew]

That is exactly what I have decided to do. I will treat items as if they were accidentally left behind and when and if they come for them, I will point to where they are.

amen. just place the 'seat holders' on the next seat that has 'holders' on it as well and let them figure it out !

[Ajack]

This has become a long discussion with several solutions being offered. There is one thing that we have all seemed to forget, though: human nature.

Human nature dictates that there will not be people to track the minutes items are unattended, patrol tables and chairs, remove items, and be available for their retrieval. That would take too many people and too much time. So forget the idea of the "Polite Police".

There will always be rude people and polite people. No matter what rules are imposed, the rude people will ignore them, and the very polite people will obey.

With rules & signs ~ or not ~ the rude people will continue to save seats, and the polite people will be too polite to rudely remove them.

Now, if all the polite people put their heads together and decide to overthrow the seat-saving-culture here in TV, then things could change. If all the polite people begin to remove the belongings of the seat/table-savers and tear down their barriers and ropes, then saving seats or tables would no longer be effective.

BUT, human nature predicts that polite people do not want to be rude. Therefore, no matter what . . . items will not be removed, seats will be saved, and polite people will continue to be annoyed.

C'est la vie.

Good post K9. I am one of those polite people who sometimes get inspired to be rude. I don't know what is happening to me but I somewhat feel more embolden as I age.

[Indydealmaker]

How would Tony Soprano handle this?

[scarecrow1]

I have a question. How many people from outside tv come in and save seats for themselves and friends? Anybody know?????:doh:

[graciegirl]

I have a question. How many people from outside tv come in and save seats for themselves and friends? Anybody know?????:doh:

Now THAT throws a different light on the subject!

That would really be not fair!!!

[Indydealmaker]

The Town Square is public access and the Developer and whomever he sells it to in the next few years count on the revenue flow from both TV as well as "outsiders". Of course, TV resident or non, that still does not make "fair" and "equitable" to save a row of seats without having earned a special right to do so or without having paid for that privilage.

[Walt.]

...Human nature dictates that there will not be people to track the minutes items are unattended, patrol tables and chairs, remove items, and be available for their retrieval. That would take too many people and too much time. So forget the idea of the "Polite Police"...

C'est la vie.

You would only need one person to walk through the area hourly... perhaps carrying a garbage bag. If there is an unattended table with a sweater and the post-it from the walkthrough the hour before (see my earlier post) then just toss the abandoned sweater into the bag and that's it. Perhaps once a month or so the collected sweaters could be donated to the Hospital Thrift Store. The previous owners could "retrieve" them there for a few bucks.
If I leave a home-made sign that said "I'm saving this table" would somebody clearing the area be obligated to save the sign until I claim it? No different than a "Table Saving Sweater."

[AnonChick]

It doesn't need any kinds of policies, or sweater-police, or garbage bags, or table to hold abandoned stuff.

All it needs, are residents with the tiny itty bitty cojones necessary to SIT DOWN and not worry about that scotch-taped fake sign claiming that table for someone who isn't there. If the chair has something on it, drape it over the arm and SIT DOWN.

If the people who claimed it actually show up, then move your own things over a few inches and invite them to pull up a chair and join you.

If you're not willing to sit down, then you really have no cause to complain about an empty chair that no one is actually occupying.