Stalin is probably rolling in his grave about Putin's mess.

[Taltarzac725]

Napoleon's Waterloo & Hitler's Barbarossa: 5 lessons Putin can learn from failed war campaigns, World News | wionews.com (https://www.wionews.com/photos/napoleons-waterloo-hitlers-barbarossa-5-lessons-putin-can-learn-from-failed-war-campaigns-461556)

The old saying those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it fits here.

I would bet Stalin and his various generals are livid while watching from wherever what Vladimir Putin is doing.

[Taltarzac725]

The Great Courses (https://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/history-s-greatest-military-blunders-and-the-lessons-they-teach)

History's Great Military Blunders and the Lessons They Teach
Gregory S. Aldrete, Ph.D. Professor, University of Wisconsin, Green Bay


Putin should throw in the towel. There is no way he can win this. His attack on the sovereign nation of Ukraine is a massive blunder.

[Bay Kid]

Evidently you must be screwed up to run a country.

[Caymus]

Putin should throw in the towel. There is no way he can win this.

It depends on his definition of "win"

[Stu from NYC]

It is amazing how generals do not learn lessons from the past in how to fight a war.

[MrFlorida]

Urban warfare is the most difficult , a sniper behind every window... It will be very costly for the invaders.

[jimbomaybe]

Urban warfare is the most difficult , a sniper behind every window... It will be very costly for the invaders.
Would it not be a matter of just how much damage you are willing to inflict? sniper in a building? call in artillery, reduce building , worked in WW2

[Taltarzac725]

Major Battles in World History - How They Affected our World | Wondrium (https://www.wondrium.com/the-decisive-battles-of-world-history)

The facts will eventually get to powerful Russians. I hope they see that Putin cannot win without causing a much larger war in the process.

[Aces4]

Major Battles in World History - How They Affected our World | Wondrium (https://www.wondrium.com/the-decisive-battles-of-world-history)

The facts will eventually get to powerful Russians. I hope they see that Putin cannot win without causing a much larger war in the process.


You forget the two world bullies have nukes and now China is warning weaponry is not to be brought into Taiwan or else… This is not going to end well, enjoy each day you have.

[manaboutown]

Stalin would view Putin as a Boy Scout.

The Ukrainian Famine: How Joseph Stalin Starved Millions - HISTORY (https://www.history.com/news/ukrainian-famine-stalin)

Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin - The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/1989/02/04/world/major-soviet-paper-says-20-million-died-as-victims-of-stalin.html)

Although old Josef might envy Putin's Palace! Putin's Palace - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Putin%27s_Palace)

[fishon]

An old Battalion Commander once told me that you should pound the enemy with long range ordinance unmercifully before committing troops.
It seems that the Russians are following a slow methodical advance, saving the troops for the occupation.

[MartinSE]

I guess we will find out how crazy Putin really is. He is threatening to target weapons systems bing brought into Ukraine. If he does that while they are still in Poland, then we have an attack on a NATO ally and will have to respond. If we have to respond, I hope we respond with overwhelming force and not get into a tit-for-tat match.

[Aces4]

I guess we will find out how crazy Putin really is. He is threatening to target weapons systems bing brought into Ukraine. If he does that while they are still in Poland, then we have an attack on a NATO ally and will have to respond. If we have to respond, I hope we respond with overwhelming force and not get into a tit-for-tat match.

I think you don’t have to worry about tit for tat, Russia is way ahead of the US in nuke weapons.

[davem4616]

You forget the two world bullies have nukes and now China is warning weaponry is not to be brought into Taiwan or else… This is not going to end well, enjoy each day you have.


I agree

no good is going to come of this

[MartinSE]

I think you don’t have to worry about tit for tat, Russia is way ahead of the US in nuke weapons.

Sorry, you are completely wrong on that post. I am not sure where you get that, but we both have the ability to completely destroy each other.

[manaboutown]

Sorry, you are completely wrong on that post. I am not sure where you get that, but we both have the ability to completely destroy each other.

After four decades and $200 billion, the US missile defense system is no match for a Russian nuclear attack - The Boston Globe (https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/03/12/nation/after-four-decades-200-billion-us-missile-defense-system-is-no-match-russian-nuclear-attack/)

[Aces4]

Sorry, you are completely wrong on that post. I am not sure where you get that, but we both have the ability to completely destroy each other.


Someone hasn’t been keeping up with what is happening. I have a feeling there are many more out there with the same status: uninformed as to current events. Can’t say I blame people for turning off the news.

[jimjamuser]

Major Battles in World History - How They Affected our World | Wondrium (https://www.wondrium.com/the-decisive-battles-of-world-history)

The facts will eventually get to powerful Russians. I hope they see that Putin cannot win without causing a much larger war in the process.
I think that it is about 50/50 that Putin gets overthrown. A lot depends on how long the Ukrainians can prolong the conflict. The Ukrainians can win in the active part of the conflict or they can win a war of attrition and guerilla action that could go on long-term after a stalemate. The Russian "best and brightest" have left or are leaving the country. Putin may run out of money to continue the war and he probably will find it hard to get loans. Europe is united and becoming more aggressive and losing their passivity - they have to fear Putin and face the facts that only force has stopped Dictators in the past. Historically, appeasement and treaties (ask the Ukraine) never stop a Dictator. Only imminent capture stopped Hitler.
.....All Democracies have a vested interest in Putin losing this war. If he should win, then Taiwan likely falls to China. Small country Dictators think that Democracy is weak and they start to take, take, and take. Putin next takes Estonia or Rumania. The US is caught up in this tragedy and it is lucky that they still have Europe as a friend. US citizens will have to accept some price increases on goods and gasoline. Peace has dividends and wars have costs - usually suffered most by the average citizen.
........The Ukraine was supposedly a beautiful country that had great mineral resources and fertile farmland. They are being bombed back into the middle ages.......their big sin - choosing western freedom over Russian Dictatorship. I hope that Americans remember the Ukrainian example.

[Aces4]

I think that it is about 50/50 that Putin gets overthrown. A lot depends on how long the Ukrainians can prolong the conflict. The Ukrainians can win in the active part of the conflict or they can win a war of attrition and guerilla action that could go on long-term after a stalemate. The Russian "best and brightest" have left or are leaving the country. Putin may run out of money to continue the war and he probably will find it hard to get loans. Europe is united and becoming more aggressive and losing their passivity - they have to fear Putin and face the facts that only force has stopped Dictators in the past. Historically, appeasement and treaties (ask the Ukraine) never stop a Dictator. Only imminent capture stopped Hitler.
.....All Democracies have a vested interest in Putin losing this war. If he should win, then Taiwan likely falls to China. Small country Dictators think that Democracy is weak and they start to take, take, and take. Putin next takes Estonia or Rumania. The US is caught up in this tragedy and it is lucky that they still have Europe as a friend. US citizens will have to accept some price increases on goods and gasoline. Peace has dividends and wars have costs - usually suffered most by the average citizen.
........The Ukraine was supposedly a beautiful country that had great mineral resources and fertile farmland. They are being bombed back into the middle ages.......their big sin - choosing western freedom over Russian Dictatorship. I hope that Americans remember the Ukrainian example.


If only the world was dealing with a rational person and not an evil old man with nothing to lose, those thoughts would hold water.

Putin will use the nuclear threat now to get anything he wants, there is no squeezing him. If it becomes unmanageable for him in any fashion, his finger is on the button.

[blueash]

Aces4

I think you don’t have to worry about tit for tat, Russia is way ahead of the US in nuke weapons.

MartinSE
Sorry, you are completely wrong on that post. I am not sure where you get that, but we both have the ability to completely destroy each other.

After four decades and $200 billion, the US missile defense system is no match for a Russian nuclear attack - The Boston Globe (https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/03/12/nation/after-four-decades-200-billion-us-missile-defense-system-is-no-match-russian-nuclear-attack/)

Review the above. Aces4 writes we are way behind Russia in nukes.
Martin says Aces4 is wrong
aboutown links to a story to apparently prove Martin is wrong and Aces is correct.

But the link is a story about how useless the Reagan idea (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Defense_Initiative) of a missile DEFENSE shield has proven to be. After 200 billion dollars we cannot protect ourselves from a Russian nuclear attack. Thus the Russians can still kill us.

Can we still kill them? Many times over.
If you really care to read:
The US nuclear capability is HERE
(https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00963402.2020.1859865)

The Russian capability is HERE (https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00963402.2022.2038907)

And a summary of the data is HERE (https://allianceforscience.cornell.edu/blog/2022/03/what-the-science-says-could-humans-survive-a-nuclear-war-between-nato-and-russia/)

"Current nuclear weapons inventories
The latest assessment of Russian nuclear military capability estimates that as of early 2022 Russia has a stockpile of approximately 4,477 nuclear warheads — nearly 6,000 if “retired” warheads are included. The US maintains a similar inventory of 5,500 warheads, with 3,800 of those rapidly deployable."

TL: DR
Russia is not ahead, nor behind in nuclear weapons. Years of treaties and verification have kept a nuclear balance in the face of mutually assured destruction. MAD

[Aces4]

Review the above. Aces4 writes we are way behind Russia in nukes.
Martin says Aces4 is wrong
aboutown links to a story to apparently prove Martin is wrong and Aces is correct.

But the link is a story about how useless the Reagan idea (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Defense_Initiative) of a missile DEFENSE shield has proven to be. After 200 billion dollars we cannot protect ourselves from a Russian nuclear attack. Thus the Russians can still kill us.

Can we still kill them? Many times over.
If you really care to read:
The US nuclear capability is HERE
(https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00963402.2020.1859865)

The Russian capability is HERE (https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00963402.2022.2038907)

And a summary of the data is HERE (https://allianceforscience.cornell.edu/blog/2022/03/what-the-science-says-could-humans-survive-a-nuclear-war-between-nato-and-russia/)

"Current nuclear weapons inventories
The latest assessment of Russian nuclear military capability estimates that as of early 2022 Russia has a stockpile of approximately 4,477 nuclear warheads — nearly 6,000 if “retired” warheads are included. The US maintains a similar inventory of 5,500 warheads, with 3,800 of those rapidly deployable."

TL: DR
Russia is not ahead, nor behind in nuclear weapons. Years of treaties and verification have kept a nuclear balance in the face of mutually assured destruction. MAD


So how many “retired” warheads does America have for backup? Russia is well prepared for nuclear attack and has also exercised and conducted ongoing training in that area. One may want perform an online search for a Bloomberg opinion article as to why the US currently isn’t ready for nuclear rivalry with Russia or with China.

[MartinSE]

Review the above. Aces4 writes we are way behind Russia in nukes.
Martin says Aces4 is wrong
aboutown links to a story to apparently prove Martin is wrong and Aces is correct.

But the link is a story about how useless the Reagan idea (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Defense_Initiative) of a missile DEFENSE shield has proven to be. After 200 billion dollars we cannot protect ourselves from a Russian nuclear attack. Thus the Russians can still kill us.

Can we still kill them? Many times over.
If you really care to read:
The US nuclear capability is HERE
(https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00963402.2020.1859865)

The Russian capability is HERE (https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00963402.2022.2038907)

And a summary of the data is HERE (https://allianceforscience.cornell.edu/blog/2022/03/what-the-science-says-could-humans-survive-a-nuclear-war-between-nato-and-russia/)

"Current nuclear weapons inventories
The latest assessment of Russian nuclear military capability estimates that as of early 2022 Russia has a stockpile of approximately 4,477 nuclear warheads — nearly 6,000 if “retired” warheads are included. The US maintains a similar inventory of 5,500 warheads, with 3,800 of those rapidly deployable."

TL: DR
Russia is not ahead, nor behind in nuclear weapons. Years of treaties and verification have kept a nuclear balance in the face of mutually assured destruction. MAD

Thanks, I didn't see any point in just going round and round. People believe what they want to believe, and like often will conflate one story with anything similar.

Yes, the anti-ballistic missile system was a complete waste of money. But, that was ONE thing, not our entire system. Oh well.

[MartinSE]

So how many “retired” warheads does America have for backup? Russia is well prepared for nuclear attack and has also exercised and conducted ongoing training in that area. One may want perform an online search for a Bloomberg opinion article as to why the US currently isn’t ready for nuclear rivalry with Russia or with China.

Linking to an opinion piece doesn't make it so. And you seem to be very knowledgeable of just what Russia has and just what we have - strange when I was in the Marines making comments in public like that would have prompted a visit from the FBI. I wonder where you got your FACTS, I know you liked to an opinion, but you know what they say about opinions - everyone has one.

Have anything official documenting your comments?

[Stu from NYC]

I think that it is about 50/50 that Putin gets overthrown. A lot depends on how long the Ukrainians can prolong the conflict. The Ukrainians can win in the active part of the conflict or they can win a war of attrition and guerilla action that could go on long-term after a stalemate. The Russian "best and brightest" have left or are leaving the country. Putin may run out of money to continue the war and he probably will find it hard to get loans. Europe is united and becoming more aggressive and losing their passivity - they have to fear Putin and face the facts that only force has stopped Dictators in the past. Historically, appeasement and treaties (ask the Ukraine) never stop a Dictator. Only imminent capture stopped Hitler.
.....All Democracies have a vested interest in Putin losing this war. If he should win, then Taiwan likely falls to China. Small country Dictators think that Democracy is weak and they start to take, take, and take. Putin next takes Estonia or Rumania. The US is caught up in this tragedy and it is lucky that they still have Europe as a friend. US citizens will have to accept some price increases on goods and gasoline. Peace has dividends and wars have costs - usually suffered most by the average citizen.
........The Ukraine was supposedly a beautiful country that had great mineral resources and fertile farmland. They are being bombed back into the middle ages.......their big sin - choosing western freedom over Russian Dictatorship. I hope that Americans remember the Ukrainian example.

Interesting analysis. If push comes to shove would the Russian military allow Putin to start a nuclear war? Hope we never have to find out.

[Taltarzac725]

Interesting analysis. If push comes to shove would the Russian military allow Putin to start a nuclear war? Hope we never have to find out.

Not if they have a choice in the matter. I would expect many of the nuclear strike attack plans in place target the military leaders of Russia.

[Aces4]

Linking to an opinion piece doesn't make it so. And you seem to be very knowledgeable of just what Russia has and just what we have - strange when I was in the Marines making comments in public like that would have prompted a visit from the FBI. I wonder where you got your FACTS, I know you liked to an opinion, but you know what they say about opinions - everyone has one.

Have anything official documenting your comments?

Seriously? It’s a crime to listen to news reports, reading news items and listening to reports from government officials who are interviewed? It’s now a crime to form an opinion regarding information provided to the public? That doesn’t sound like the America of which I am a citizen. That sounds more like Russian control of it’s citizenry. Geezzz:ohdear:

I suppose I just made up the fact that Russia has approached China for weaponry and financing now. Sorry if this all interrupts one’s head-in-the-sand moments.

[Taltarzac725]

Stalin killed millions. A Stanford historian answers the question, was it genocide? (https://news.stanford.edu/2010/09/23/naimark-stalin-genocide-092310/)

Stalin was a murderous dictator but he would be very upset with Putin for starting a war he has no real way of winning short of sparking a nuclear war and no one knows how that would end. Maybe whoever winds up with the most surviving nuclear submarines and even those would have to come up for air and provisions.

[manaboutown]

Stalin killed millions. A Stanford historian answers the question, was it genocide? (https://news.stanford.edu/2010/09/23/naimark-stalin-genocide-092310/)

Stalin was a murderous dictator but he would be very upset with Putin for starting a war he has no real way of winning short of sparking a nuclear war and no one knows how that would end. Maybe whoever winds up with the most surviving nuclear submarines and even those would have to come up for air and provisions.

My greatest concern is the state of Putin's health, primarily his mental health. Rumors have it that he has neurological and possibly some other health issues. That could make him very dangerous IMHO. He is unpredictable may be becoming increasingly irrational. At some point he may push or try to push the nuclear button. As you suggested his invasion seems unwinnable. I do not think anyone has an answer.

I found an interesting article about how Russians are possibly feeling. Of course they cannot really speak out fully. What it'''s like inside Moscow amid Ukraine war: Reporter'''s Notebook | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/world/what-its-like-inside-moscow-reporters-notebook?cmpid=fb_fnc&fbclid=IwAR31fsBlCOLCytzIvlyLHbtkE3k1bP5PvKWmDTYm1-X1t3_o6m3paysmVSY)

[Worldseries27]

More than likely putin is already looking for an out. So are the sycophants that surround him which makes it very dangerous for him. All the war game scenarios are being dusted off and decapitation strikes are certainly being discussed.
In the end all the radioactivity spreads to the atmosphere and spreads all over the earth killing possibly all life.
1959 movie " on the beach" with gregory peck scenario.

[Geodyssey]

Napoleon's Waterloo & Hitler's Barbarossa: 5 lessons Putin can learn from failed war campaigns, World News | wionews.com (https://www.wionews.com/photos/napoleons-waterloo-hitlers-barbarossa-5-lessons-putin-can-learn-from-failed-war-campaigns-461556)

The old saying those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it fits here.

I would bet Stalin and his various generals are livid while watching from wherever what Vladimir Putin is doing.

Yet Russia is winning.

[Geodyssey]

The Great Courses (https://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/history-s-greatest-military-blunders-and-the-lessons-they-teach)

History's Great Military Blunders and the Lessons They Teach
Gregory S. Aldrete, Ph.D. Professor, University of Wisconsin, Green Bay


Putin should throw in the towel. There is no way he can win this. His attack on the sovereign nation of Ukraine is a massive blunder.

Would you bet on it? No.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Stalin appears to Putin in a dream

Putin: "What can I do to make Russia great again?"
Stalin: "Execute half the population and paint the Kremlin blue."
Putin: "Why blue?"
Stalin: "Well done comrade! I knew you wouldn't ask about the first part."

[Ashley from UK]

So sitting on this side of the pond and not being a military expert - but having studied a little history my guess is.

1) Russie is blocking all external access to the internet this week for its citizens (Eg. no more VPN so no more balanced view and not more dissension).
2) Internal PR will go into overdrive so Russian residents believe that this is merely a military campaign to oust the NAZI and evil West. (remember WW2 - The German people were brainwashed to believe the lies of their leaders). China is also not far behind the same thing with Hong Kong AND Taiwan moving under draconian control.
3) China is really behind this - feeding both US and Russia with info to cause infighting and weaken both parties - divide and conquer. - I have no proof - it's mere speculation.
4) China will step in when things start getting out of hand and broker a settlement (a more palatable conclusion than armageddon) - by which time China will not be hampered by the huge debts of war incurred on top of the huge debts of Covid. Lest we forget that China already has many financial problems of its own - War is a great way to resolve those debts - either by leveling up the opposition (eg East/West) OR taking control of the opposition's assets. This may be the start of the great leveling up around the world and potentially the start of more peace - or the start of a 100-year war....the outcome of which will not be pleasant.
5) We are all thinking of conventional warfare. Russia doesn't work like that. Yes, the Ukrainian people can fight a long-term gorilla war but Russia now has vacuum bombs and isn't frightened to use them. Flatten first - chemical warfare second. Higher casualties for the indigenous population - but potentially swifter in the long run... HOWEVER - you can NEVER kill people's spirits which may fester for generations - as we see all over the world with repeated conflicts over the same ground with the same arguments.

Like I said - I am not a military expert - just an observer of human actions. As the original author implied - If you want to predict the future read the past.

And to end with - we are all the pawns in the game of a few. Whether American, British, European, Russian, or Chinese. We will pay the price at the tills, through our lives or the lives of the younger generations who now fight. We are all the same - as an enlightened and very frightened Russian friend said to me over the weekend in what they think will be their last VPN posting - we are the 's' people that are expendable to those with self-interest for power. We are all the same so do not automatically blame the peasants for the crimes of the dictator - even if the peasant supposedly committed an unseemly action - that had they not have been indoctrinated with lies they would not have performed...

[JMintzer]

Seriously? It’s a crime to listen to news reports, reading news items and listening to reports from government officials who are interviewed? It’s now a crime to form an opinion regarding information provided to the public? That doesn’t sound like the America of which I am a citizen. That sounds more like Russian control of it’s citizenry. Geezzz:ohdear:

I suppose I just made up the fact that Russia has approached China for weaponry and financing now. Sorry if this all interrupts one’s head-in-the-sand moments.

Who said it's a crime to listen to news reports from government officials? Certainly not the person you're quoting...

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Lets look at the future outcome possibilities, because most everyone knows the current situation is a mess at the moment, and disinformation is everywhere, both Russian and the West, as the article about stepping up information versus disinformation from both sides in a prior post is key to keeping a skeptical view about everything

Possible Outcomes of the Russo-Ukrainian War and China's Choice - U.S.-China Perception Monitor (https://uscnpm.org/2022/03/12/hu-wei-russia-ukraine-war-china-choice/)

some strategic outcomes, well thought out, NOT AN OR THE ANSWER, the answer is in the future, and the future has not arrived yet.

We live in interesting times, and yes, bonds are falling / interest rates are rising, and the stock market is correcting . . .

[Aces4]

[QUOTE=JMintzer;2072122]Who said it's a crime to listen to news reports from government officials? Certainly not the person you're quoting...


The person I was quoting:

[/Linking to an opinion piece doesn't make it so. And you seem to be very knowledgeable of just what Russia has and just what we have - strange when I was in the Marines making comments in public like that would have prompted a visit from the FBI. I wonder where you got your FACTS, I know you liked to an opinion, but you know what they say about opinions - everyone has one


You don’t think that his inference that my posts in public should prompt a visit from the FBI because the FBI is doing tea parties, do you?

[Stu from NYC]

Lets look at the future outcome possibilities, because most everyone knows the current situation is a mess at the moment, and disinformation is everywhere, both Russian and the West, as the article about stepping up information versus disinformation from both sides in a prior post is key to keeping a skeptical view about everything

Possible Outcomes of the Russo-Ukrainian War and China's Choice - U.S.-China Perception Monitor (https://uscnpm.org/2022/03/12/hu-wei-russia-ukraine-war-china-choice/)

some strategic outcomes, well thought out, NOT AN OR THE ANSWER, the answer is in the future, and the future has not arrived yet.

We live in interesting times, and yes, bonds are falling / interest rates are rising, and the stock market is correcting . . .

interesting

[JMintzer]

[QUOTE=JMintzer;2072122]Who said it's a crime to listen to news reports from government officials? Certainly not the person you're quoting...


The person I was quoting:

[/Linking to an opinion piece doesn't make it so. And you seem to be very knowledgeable of just what Russia has and just what we have - strange when I was in the Marines making comments in public like that would have prompted a visit from the FBI. I wonder where you got your FACTS, I know you liked to an opinion, but you know what they say about opinions - everyone has one


You don’t think that his inference that my posts in public should prompt a visit from the FBI because the FBI is doing tea parties, do you?

He specifically stated that when "he was a Marine", and making public comments...

Remember that one Officer who was busted in rank and discharged for making comments about politics?

It has NOTHING to do with your LISTENING to, or your MAKING said comments. Huge difference... Unless, of course, you're active duty...

[NotGolfer]

So sitting on this side of the pond and not being a military expert - but having studied a little history my guess is.

1) Russie is blocking all external access to the internet this week for its citizens (Eg. no more VPN so no more balanced view and not more dissension).
2) Internal PR will go into overdrive so Russian residents believe that this is merely a military campaign to oust the NAZI and evil West. (remember WW2 - The German people were brainwashed to believe the lies of their leaders). China is also not far behind the same thing with Hong Kong AND Taiwan moving under draconian control.
3) China is really behind this - feeding both US and Russia with info to cause infighting and weaken both parties - divide and conquer. - I have no proof - it's mere speculation.
4) China will step in when things start getting out of hand and broker a settlement (a more palatable conclusion than armageddon) - by which time China will not be hampered by the huge debts of war incurred on top of the huge debts of Covid. Lest we forget that China already has many financial problems of its own - War is a great way to resolve those debts - either by leveling up the opposition (eg East/West) OR taking control of the opposition's assets. This may be the start of the great leveling up around the world and potentially the start of more peace - or the start of a 100-year war....the outcome of which will not be pleasant.
5) We are all thinking of conventional warfare. Russia doesn't work like that. Yes, the Ukrainian people can fight a long-term gorilla war but Russia now has vacuum bombs and isn't frightened to use them. Flatten first - chemical warfare second. Higher casualties for the indigenous population - but potentially swifter in the long run... HOWEVER - you can NEVER kill people's spirits which may fester for generations - as we see all over the world with repeated conflicts over the same ground with the same arguments.

Like I said - I am not a military expert - just an observer of human actions. As the original author implied - If you want to predict the future read the past.

And to end with - we are all the pawns in the game of a few. Whether American, British, European, Russian, or Chinese. We will pay the price at the tills, through our lives or the lives of the younger generations who now fight. We are all the same - as an enlightened and very frightened Russian friend said to me over the weekend in what they think will be their last VPN posting - we are the 's' people that are expendable to those with self-interest for power. We are all the same so do not automatically blame the peasants for the crimes of the dictator - even if the peasant supposedly committed an unseemly action - that had they not have been indoctrinated with lies they would not have performed...

Great response. That said, I was going to mention China. Remember them? Also...my thoughts are that this war is a deflection of "something" that takes the world's eyes off from some things more important. Time will tell.

[haysus7]

Putin already has nuclear weapons in Ukraine. The power plants He already is trying to blow them up

[OhioBuckeye]

You forget the two world bullies have nukes and now China is warning weaponry is not to be brought into Taiwan or else… This is not going to end well, enjoy each day you have.

Whether anybody agrees with us or not Aces4, I think you’re right. All the comments are just making assumptions! Just 3 more yrs. of misery!

[Wyseguy]

I think you don’t have to worry about tit for tat, Russia is way ahead of the US in nuke weapons.

U.S.A. with 6,185

Russia with 6,500

When you are dealing with warheads many times more powerful than Hiroshima, and each side has in excess of five thousand, I do not believe the 315 variance makes much of a difference.

[Aces4]

He specifically stated that when "he was a Marine", and making public comments...

Remember that one Officer who was busted in rank and discharged for making comments about politics?

It has NOTHING to do with your LISTENING to, or your MAKING said comments. Huge difference... Unless, of course, you're active duty...


That’s a reach but if that’s the case, what does his former occupation and its limitations have to do with the subject at hand? Why was it even introduced in the discussion? Ok, rationalize away..

[Aces4]

U.S.A. with 6,185

Russia with 6,500

When you are dealing with warheads many times more powerful than Hiroshima, and each side has in excess of five thousand, I do not believe the 315 variance makes much of a difference.

You’re right, it probably makes little difference unless one country is more prepared. Even at that, there will be no winners in a thermonuclear war. As I stated earlier, enjoy each day.

[Stu from NYC]

You’re right, it probably makes little difference unless one country is more prepared. Even at that, there will be no winners in a thermonuclear war. As I stated earlier, enjoy each day.

Given the nuclear ballistic missile subs we are all losers in a nuclear war

[MartinSE]

Seriously? It’s a crime to listen to news reports, reading news items and listening to reports from government officials who are interviewed? It’s now a crime to form an opinion regarding information provided to the public? That doesn’t sound like the America of which I am a citizen. That sounds more like Russian control of it’s citizenry. Geezzz:ohdear:

I suppose I just made up the fact that Russia has approached China for weaponry and financing now. Sorry if this all interrupts one’s head-in-the-sand moments.

You are stating military readiness and arms numbers, and that is top secret when it comes to nukes.

Listen to all the news reports you want, talk about all the news reports you want. Those are NOT facts, when it comes to top secret information. If they are, someone has leaked and that is a crime.

That is all I am saying. You are stating your comments as FACT, and either you are leaking classified information, or you are quoting public knowledge - which is not facts.

[Wyseguy]

Thanks, I didn't see any point in just going round and round. People believe what they want to believe, and like often will conflate one story with anything similar.

Yes, the anti-ballistic missile system was a complete waste of money. But, that was ONE thing, not our entire system. Oh well.

I was in undergrad and grad school during the 1980's. Being in the D.C. Area, we had many speakers discussing SDI and what the benefits were of it. S.D.I. was an important part of 1980's soviet - U.S. relations. It can even be said that it played an important role in the ultimate end of the Cold War. The Soviet Union was presented with a system and it's technology that they would not be able to meet financially or technologically.

[airstreamingypsy]

Looking at the horrifying photos from the Ukraine I remember William Marcy's comment, "To the victor goes the spoils."

[Aces4]

You are stating military readiness and arms numbers, and that is top secret when it comes to nukes.

Listen to all the news reports you want, talk about all the news reports you want. Those are NOT facts, when it comes to top secret information. If they are, someone has leaked and that is a crime.

That is all I am saying. You are stating your comments as FACT, and either you are leaking classified information, or you are quoting public knowledge - which is not facts.

Top secret was never mentioned in my statements. I’m not here to debate cluelessness, if it makes some happy to ignore common knowledge because they’re too lazy to do the research… go with it. I prefer discussions with the aware/enlightened crowd.:ho:

[Geodyssey]

Putin already has nuclear weapons in Ukraine. The power plants He already is trying to blow them up

Why would he do that?

And if he's in control of them (he is), why haven't they been blown up?

[Geodyssey]

Ukrainian AZOV Battalion shirts & mugs for sale on Amazon.

Genuine AZOV Gear (link to Amazon) (https://www.amazon.com/s?k=azov+battalion&crid=1NK7ZDCR0840Q&sprefix=azov+battalion%2Caps%2C440&ref=nb_sb_noss)

Can anyone explain their symbol? Looks familiar, can't put my finger on it.

[MartinSE]

I was in undergrad and grad school during the 1980's. Being in the D.C. Area, we had many speakers discussing SDI and what the benefits were of it. S.D.I. was an important part of 1980's soviet - U.S. relations. It can even be said that it played an important role in the ultimate end of the Cold War. The Soviet Union was presented with a system and it's technology that they would not be able to meet financially or technologically.

Yes, the development was the deterrent. But, it never actually worked. Or I should say, I think that is the one that never worked. If it is the anti-ballistic missile system I am thinking of, they tried numerous times over decades to hit a target and misted almost every time.

I may be confusing two systems.

My post was not so much about a specific system, but about posts claiming "facts" about our military readiness. And public knowledge is not "facts" was my point. If someone is actually quoting "facts", that would be a federal offense, since the nukes are all classified top secret. People can try to "glean" information, and can extrapolate and can theorize. But, discussing actual facts around out nukes is off the menu.

And, I may be out of line, but, saying our military will lose in a war against Russia is in my not so humble opinion un-American, especially for a person that can n to possibly have the actual data about military readiness, to make statements like that in what could be a run up to war, seems to be rooting for the other side.

But that is just my opinion.

[MartinSE]

Top secret was never mentioned in my statements. I’m not here to debate cluelessness, if it makes some happy to ignore common knowledge because they’re too lazy to do the research… go with it. I prefer discussions with the aware/enlightened crowd.:ho:

Pleaser enlighten me, please provide us with actual FACTs and not news report. Seriously you really believe you KNOW the state of our military? That is pretty sad.

[mike1946]

Not sure of the exact number but Russia has 6000+ nukes and the USA 5000+ but even the lowly UK with 280 Nukes has enough fire power to make a hell of a mess of the world - if everyone fires everything they've got put your head between your legs and kiss you A** goodbye.

[MartinSE]

Not sure of the exact number but Russia has 6000+ nukes and the USA 5000+ but even the lowly UK with 280 Nukes has enough fire power to make a hell of a mess of the world - if everyone fires everything they've got put your head between your legs and kiss you A** goodbye.

Well said, we both have more than enough to bring about nuke winter. And, we, the public, only have general numbers and no idea of readiness, or accuracy, or much of anything.

[Aces4]

Not sure of the exact number but Russia has 6000+ nukes and the USA 5000+ but even the lowly UK with 280 Nukes has enough fire power to make a hell of a mess of the world - if everyone fires everything they've got put your head between your legs and kiss you A** goodbye.

According to another poster, we can’t possibly have any updated info regarding this info. :icon_wink:
Kiss and hug your loved ones every time you walk out the door.

[Aces4]

Well said, we both have more than enough to bring about nuke winter. And, we, the public, only have general numbers and no idea of readiness, or accuracy, or much of anything.

Yes, as you read earlier in my posts, Russia has more weapons and thank you for the acknowledgment. With the exception of readiness, our exercises were postponed lest we upset Putin, who continued his nuclear exercises on February 19th, 2022. (Per radiofreeeurope)

[jimbomaybe]

I was in undergrad and grad school during the 1980's. Being in the D.C. Area, we had many speakers discussing SDI and what the benefits were of it. S.D.I. was an important part of 1980's soviet - U.S. relations. It can even be said that it played an important role in the ultimate end of the Cold War. The Soviet Union was presented with a system and it's technology that they would not be able to meet financially or technologically.

The logic and reasoning is transparent and has been demonstrated through history , "If you would have peace prepare for war"( some ancient Roman) It's much easier to spend public funds on things that generate votes and show just how caring and generous a politician you are

[MartinSE]

Yes, as you read earlier in my posts, Russia has more weapons and thank you for the acknowledgment. With the exception of readiness, our exercises were postponed lest we upset Putin, who continued his nuclear exercises on February 19th, 2022. (Per radiofreeeurope)

It seems you just have to stat FACTS.

"Russia has more weapons" - you do not KNOW this to be true, if you have FACTS that would be top secret information. I doubt you would share that. They might, they might not.

"Our exercises were postponed lest we upset Putin". You don't KNOW that. You think it, you believe it, it fits your world view. If you have the memo signed by the president stating WHY we did or didn't do something, I am willing to bet you won't share it.

I am NOT saying you are wrong, I am saying you can not have enough information to make the statements as facts. And enough people making those statements aides Putin in what he is doing.

[Aces4]

It seems you just have to stat FACTS.

"Russia has more weapons" - you do not KNOW this to be true, if you have FACTS that would be top secret information. I doubt you would share that. They might, they might not.

"Our exercises were postponed lest we upset Putin". You don't KNOW that. You think it, you believe it, it fits your world view. If you have the memo signed by the president stating WHY we did or didn't do something, I am willing to bet you won't share it.

I am NOT saying you are wrong, I am saying you can not have enough information to make the statements as facts. And enough people making those statements aides Putin in what he is doing.



Quote:
Originally Posted by mike1946 View Post
Not sure of the exact number but Russia has 6000+ nukes and the USA 5000+ but even the lowly UK with 280 Nukes has enough fire power to make a hell of a mess of the world - if everyone fires everything they've got put your head between your legs and kiss you A** goodbye.
Well said, we both have more than enough to bring about nuke winter. And, we, the public, only have general numbers and no idea of readiness, or accuracy, or much of anything.




You just AGREED with Mike who provided actual numbers for weapons from Russia and the US. THOSE aren’t my numbers, I didn’t provide numbers.

I provided a source, radiofreeeurope, for the nuclear preparedness of Russia versus the US. Do some research, reading and check in on reliable news sources, the US didn’t perform the latest scheduled exercise lest Putin be upset. It’s not brain surgery.:rolleyes:

Us postpones long range missile test amid nuclear tension with Russia. March 2nd 2022 time magazine

[Petersweeney]

We should take Greenland

[MartinSE]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike1946 View Post
Not sure of the exact number but Russia has 6000+ nukes and the USA 5000+ but even the lowly UK with 280 Nukes has enough fire power to make a hell of a mess of the world - if everyone fires everything they've got put your head between your legs and kiss you A** goodbye.
Well said, we both have more than enough to bring about nuke winter. And, we, the public, only have general numbers and no idea of readiness, or accuracy, or much of anything.




You just AGREED with Mike who provided actual numbers for weapons from Russia and the US. THOSE aren’t my numbers, I didn’t provide numbers.

I provided a source, radiofreeeurope, for the nuclear preparedness of Russia versus the US. Do some research, reading and check in on reliable news sources, the US didn’t perform the latest scheduled exercise lest Putin be upset. It’s not brain surgery.:rolleyes:

The only link I saw that you posted was to an opinion.

6000+ is not an exact number, it is an estimate.

You stated as FACT that the US would lose a nuke war against Russia.

If you found a report that the reason the US stop an exercise was to avoid making Putin mad, your Google Foo is better than mine, because I can find no such article. And if you can find it I expect it will be my opinion. I am pretty sure the US would not say in print, "We are afraid of fighting Russia, so we are going to stop any military actions that might make Putin mad"...

But, I could be wrong, apparently, you can't be wrong.

[Aces4]

The only link I saw that you posted was to an opinion.

6000+ is not an exact number, it is an estimate.

You stated as FACT that the US would lose a nuke war against Russia.

If you found a report that the reason the US stop an exercise was to avoid making Putin mad, your Google Foo is better than mine, because I can find no such article. And if you can find it I expect it will be my opinion. I am pretty sure the US would not say in print, "We are afraid of fighting Russia, so we are going to stop any military actions that might make Putin mad"...

But, I could be wrong, apparently, you can't be wrong.

This would be funny, if not so convoluted. I gave you the source, the date and what to search online and you can’t do it. Our last intercontinental ballistic missile test, which the article indicates is planned way in advance and not often, was cancelled and why. Try harder. I never stated the US would lose a nuclear war with Russia. Those are your words. I did indicate we wouldn’t win a nuclear war with Russia. There will be NO winners.

You realize we’re both on the same side of this fight… of course, who knows for sure these days. Read all my posts. I didn’t state Russia would win. My point is that with Russia just as, and if not more, nuclear armed as the US, and an old man in Russia at the helm with an itchy finger who doesn’t care who he takes with him, there will be no winners if this goes thermonuclear. There will be no tit for tat with Putin. He’s the world bully with his big weapon.

[MartinSE]

This would be funny, if not so convoluted. I gave you the source, the date and what to search online and you can’t do it. Our last intercontinental ballistic missile test, which the article indicates is planned way in advance and not often, was cancelled and why. Try harder. I never stated the US would lose a nuclear war with Russia. Those are your words. I did indicate we wouldn’t win a nuclear war with Russia. There will be NO winners.

You realize we’re both on the same side of this fight… of course, who knows for sure these days. Read all my posts. I didn’t state Russia would win. My point is that with Russia just as, and if not more, nuclear armed as the US, and an old man in Russia at the helm with an itchy finger who doesn’t care who he takes with him, there will be no winners if this goes thermonuclear. There will be no tit for tat with Putin. He’s the world bully with his big weapon.

I looked back over all your posts, I could find NO links now, I am fair certain there was before. I only found a reference to a news article. My point still stands you can not KNOW how many Nukes we have, you can only approximate it. You can not KNOW the readiness of our military. If you do and you reveal that known that is leaking classified information.

You said, "I think you don’t have to worry about tit for tat, Russia is way ahead of the US in nuke weapons."

I see no way to read/interpret that other than If we tried to go tit-for-tat Russia will win, BECAUSE they are "WAY AHEAD OF THE US in Nukes".

But, then, you can read it anyway you want.

I agree you also stated there would be no winner - in a later post. I agree with that. If we go nuclear we all lose.

[jimjamuser]

Interesting analysis. If push comes to shove would the Russian military allow Putin to start a nuclear war? Hope we never have to find out.
Thanks and I agree about nuclear war.

[Aces4]

I looked back over all your posts, I could find NO links now, I am fair certain there was before. I only found a reference to a news article. My point still stands you can not KNOW how many Nukes we have, you can only approximate it. You can not KNOW the readiness of our military. If you do and you reveal that known that is leaking classified information.

You said, "I think you don’t have to worry about tit for tat, Russia is way ahead of the US in nuke weapons."

I see no way to read/interpret that other than If we tried to go tit-for-tat Russia will win, BECAUSE they are "WAY AHEAD OF THE US in Nukes".

But, then, you can read it anyway you want.

I agree you also stated there would be no winner - in a later post. I agree with that. If we go nuclear we all lose.

Sigh.. we are not able to respond to anything with Putin and I never mentioned military because it will never be a factor. He has finger on the button and therein lies the rub.

Way ahead of us, yes they are. We no longer have a weapons edge to control freak dictators with nukes, they have them too. They’re ahead of us which translates to: we are able to blow each other apart. No one has an edge, just evil lurking.

[jimjamuser]

So sitting on this side of the pond and not being a military expert - but having studied a little history my guess is.

1) Russie is blocking all external access to the internet this week for its citizens (Eg. no more VPN so no more balanced view and not more dissension).
2) Internal PR will go into overdrive so Russian residents believe that this is merely a military campaign to oust the NAZI and evil West. (remember WW2 - The German people were brainwashed to believe the lies of their leaders). China is also not far behind the same thing with Hong Kong AND Taiwan moving under draconian control.
3) China is really behind this - feeding both US and Russia with info to cause infighting and weaken both parties - divide and conquer. - I have no proof - it's mere speculation.
4) China will step in when things start getting out of hand and broker a settlement (a more palatable conclusion than armageddon) - by which time China will not be hampered by the huge debts of war incurred on top of the huge debts of Covid. Lest we forget that China already has many financial problems of its own - War is a great way to resolve those debts - either by leveling up the opposition (eg East/West) OR taking control of the opposition's assets. This may be the start of the great leveling up around the world and potentially the start of more peace - or the start of a 100-year war....the outcome of which will not be pleasant.
5) We are all thinking of conventional warfare. Russia doesn't work like that. Yes, the Ukrainian people can fight a long-term gorilla war but Russia now has vacuum bombs and isn't frightened to use them. Flatten first - chemical warfare second. Higher casualties for the indigenous population - but potentially swifter in the long run... HOWEVER - you can NEVER kill people's spirits which may fester for generations - as we see all over the world with repeated conflicts over the same ground with the same arguments.

Like I said - I am not a military expert - just an observer of human actions. As the original author implied - If you want to predict the future read the past.

And to end with - we are all the pawns in the game of a few. Whether American, British, European, Russian, or Chinese. We will pay the price at the tills, through our lives or the lives of the younger generations who now fight. We are all the same - as an enlightened and very frightened Russian friend said to me over the weekend in what they think will be their last VPN posting - we are the 's' people that are expendable to those with self-interest for power. We are all the same so do not automatically blame the peasants for the crimes of the dictator - even if the peasant supposedly committed an unseemly action - that had they not have been indoctrinated with lies they would not have performed...
I agree with the last paragraph. Even in the democratic countries, all institutions have some level of corruption.....Federal Government, state and local governments, Universities (high Presidents' salaries, high coaches" salaries), corporations (excessively high salaries), and even religion (Tammy Faye Baker, Billy Graham, and TV Evangelicals with private jets). If you push that corruption higher and higher, you slowly lose a middle class, propaganda increases, and eventually, you get a Dictatorship. Fortunately, most Dictators and Dictatorships don't enjoy a long life span - Putin is at about 22years, so he is overdue for a fall. Then, a country goes from anarchy to possibly democracy. But, democracies are fragile and must maintain a strong middle-class and constantly fight against corruption. I believe that it is about 50/50 whether Putin will be overthrown soon.

[MartinSE]

I agree with the last paragraph. Even in the democratic countries, all institutions have some level of corruption.....Federal Government, state and local governments, Universities (high Presidents' salaries, high coaches" salaries), corporations (excessively high salaries), and even religion (Tammy Faye Baker, Billy Graham, and TV Evangelicals with private jets). If you push that corruption higher and higher, you slowly lose a middle class, propaganda increases, and eventually, you get a Dictatorship. Fortunately, most Dictators and Dictatorships don't enjoy a long life span - Putin is at about 22years, so he is overdue for a fall. Then, a country goes from anarchy to possibly democracy. But, democracies are fragile and must maintain a strong middle-class and constantly fight against corruption. I believe that it is about 50/50 whether Putin will be overthrown soon.

Agreed.

There was a good opinion piece recently about all the strong arm authoritarians moving into positions of power around the world. The opinion was that this happens when people are unhappy, losing ground economically, and feel threatened. They look to the authoritarians to bring stability and a return to "how things were".

I have always said that "people" will not rise up against their government until they feel they have nothing left to lose. I think that reflects the same sentiment. Sadly, the US is failing to meet its citizens needs and the result is a splintering and that is not good.

Democracy only works when people have faith in it.

[jimjamuser]

Great response. That said, I was going to mention China. Remember them? Also...my thoughts are that this war is a deflection of "something" that takes the world's eyes off from some things more important. Time will tell.
I suppose that everyone has a DIFFERENT "something". This war certainly won't lessen global warming and lessen Covid and other diseases. It will lower world population a small amount, likely .....but, it is not the ideal way to accomplish that. It WILL cause a lot of population relocation and refugees. 2/3 of all refugees never return to their original country. And most will want to end up in the US just in time to add to our own internal lack of cohesion!

[jimjamuser]

I was in undergrad and grad school during the 1980's. Being in the D.C. Area, we had many speakers discussing SDI and what the benefits were of it. S.D.I. was an important part of 1980's soviet - U.S. relations. It can even be said that it played an important role in the ultimate end of the Cold War. The Soviet Union was presented with a system and it's technology that they would not be able to meet financially or technologically.
Gee whizz, I remember that differently - as in wasted money going into the pockets of wealthy CEOs and large shareholders of government defense contractors. Money that could have been used to fortify a soon-to-be vanishing middle-class.

[jimjamuser]

Why would he do that?

And if he's in control of them (he is), why haven't they been blown up?
It might happen accidentally, but unlikely on purpose - because the prevailing winds would blow the radiation eastward toward Russia.

[jimjamuser]

Not sure of the exact number but Russia has 6000+ nukes and the USA 5000+ but even the lowly UK with 280 Nukes has enough fire power to make a hell of a mess of the world - if everyone fires everything they've got put your head between your legs and kiss you A** goodbye.
The "Russhkies" will not dare nuke Florida. Everyone knows that after the war they will want to take a vacation to Disney World.

[jimjamuser]

We should take Greenland
Right, when no one's looking. Good idea!

[MartinSE]

Right, when no one's looking. Good idea!

We could put Chinese flags on the planes and boats. I am sure no one will notice.
:shocked:

[jhoffha]

Actually, the Germans lost in Stalingrad, partly due to snipers which were both genders. Germans leveled the city with bombs. It was within this rubble that the Russians were able to attach the Germans at close quarters. The tactic was referred to as "hugging the enemy" which took away the Germans ability to use artillery and mortar for fear of hitting their own German forces. This was innovative strategy was introduced be the Russian commander Vasily Chuikov. As the fighting continues and the Ukrainian resolve to tested we will see this method of fighting in use against the Russians, ironically the original users against the Germans 81 years ago (1941).

[Worldseries27]

the "russhkies" will not dare nuke florida. Everyone knows that after the war they will want to take a vacation to disney world.
actually they would. Kings bay georgia submarine base is a strategic target 140 miles away. It would be hit with dozens of warheads from russian subs located only a few hundred miles off our coast line .we are just outside ground zero. They would bounce our rubble dozens of times.
In return 75% of russia's population lives in the european side of russia. Check out a satellite view of russia at night
there is no possible win for them. If they launch at us they become extinct.

[Get real]

The "Russhkies" will not dare nuke Florida. Everyone knows that after the war they will want to take a vacation to Disney World.

South Florida would be OK. :boom:

[davem4616]

Given the nuclear ballistic missile subs we are all losers in a nuclear war


exactly....

[Janet1946]

“The only way to win is not to play.” (from the movie, War Games.)

[Aces4]

[QUOTE=Aces4;2072137]

He specifically stated that when "he was a Marine", and making public comments...

Remember that one Officer who was busted in rank and discharged for making comments about politics?

It has NOTHING to do with your LISTENING to, or your MAKING said comments. Huge difference... Unless, of course, you're active duty...

Since I don’t PM, per your inquiry… starts with a b, ends with an o and has spent a lot of time on the bench. Got it?

[JMintzer]

///

[JMintzer]

Since I don’t PM, per your inquiry… starts with a b, ends with an o and has spent a lot of time on the bench. Got it?

Nope... But of course you could tell me where I'm wrong... Just like I did to you... Rather than post some cryptic insult...


P.S. It would also help if you learned to use the "Quote" function...

[Aces4]

Nope... But of course you could tell me where I'm wrong... Just like I did to you... Rather than post some cryptic insult...


P.S. It would also help if you learned to use the "Quote" function...

Quote function was used and what was a cryptic insult? I was trying to subtly, publicly tell you the answer since I don’t PM. Wow, nice response.

[JMintzer]

Quote function was used and what was a cryptic insult? I was trying to subtly, publicly tell you the answer since I don’t PM. Wow, nice response.

Considering your reply had nothing to do with what I actually said (because you used the quote function incorrectly), your cryptic post was useless...

[JMintzer]

Quote function was used and what was a cryptic insult? I was trying to subtly, publicly tell you the answer since I don’t PM. Wow, nice response.

Okay, maybe I overreacted. but...

The quote function was use incorrectly. You have yourself quoting what I said... (see post #80)

As to your comment about whom you were responding to, it was MartinSE, I don't see a B or an O anywhere. So no, I don't "got it"...

And I'm at a loss why the PM function is outside your realm of possibilities...

[Aces4]

Okay, maybe I overreacted. but...

The quote function was use incorrectly. You have yourself quoting what I said... (see post #80)

As to your comment about whom you were responding to, it was MartinSE, I don't see a B or an O anywhere. So no, I don't "got it"...

And I'm at a loss why the PM function is outside your realm of possibilities...

The quote function worked just fine for it’s purpose. This person was a Marine many moons ago and this forum was his theater for soapbox political diatribes which got him kicked often and maybe permanently. MartinSE name has nothing to do with his old handle which started with a B and ended with o with letters in between. Sorry if it was confusing.

I don’t PM because of neutrality. I appreciate the food for thought on this forum but when people want to connect, they normally like lockstep thinking and send personal information or venom toward others. Anything I share is public, has nothing to do with you.

[JMintzer]

The quote function worked just fine for it’s purpose. This person was a Marine many moons ago and this forum was his theater for soapbox political diatribes which got him kicked often and maybe permanently. MartinSE name has nothing to do with his old handle which started with a B and ended with o with letters in between. Sorry if it was confusing.

I don’t PM because of neutrality. I appreciate the food for thought on this forum but when people want to connect, they normally like lockstep thinking and send personal information or venom toward others. Anything I share is public, has nothing to do with you.

Nope. Your post (#80) had you quoted as saying something I said...

As to with an alias, I still have no idea who you're talking about.

"Neutrality"? Okay, if you say so...

[Aces4]

Nope. Your post (#80) had you quoted as saying something I said...

As to with an alias, I still have no idea who you're talking about.

"Neutrality"? Okay, if you say so...



YOU sent me the PM wanting to know who a poster was.

I sent you that quote so you could see he was a soldier which aligned with his former posting identity, he has a new alias.

Yes, neutrality! And with that I’m done. I’m sure others here have the answer already.

[JMintzer]

YOU sent me the PM wanting to know who a poster was.

I sent you that quote so you could see he was a soldier which aligned with his former posting identity, he has a new alias.

Yes, neutrality! And with that I’m done. I’m sure others here have the answer already.

Yes, because you seemed to know who he was. The simple response was to answer in kind (via PM), but no, YOU had to make a big deal about it and make it public...

Unlike you, I rarely remember the history of every poster on TOTV...

What this has to do with "neutrality" escapes me...

A simple response of "I'd rather not say" would have been much easier...


P.S. Points given for correctly quoting me!

[MorTech]

In Soviet Union, grave roll you.

[davem4616]

Russia may be able to level the Ukrainian landscape by force, and replace the leaders with puppets, but Russia will never conquer the hearts of the people of Ukraine that have tasted freedom...

Someone down at City Fire said that Putin was intent on reestablishing the buffer between Russia and the NATO countries that he had with the pro-Russian government that had been in place in the Ukraine...the one that the West helped put the skids under
...I wasn't able to hear the rest of his story, our table was ready and we left the bar area

[Lottoguy]

I thought Stalin is in a glass case in Red Square? Or was that Walt Disney?

[Lottoguy]

You'd be surprised what the USA has in weapons that nobody knows about. Remember the stealth program 40 years ago?

[Lottoguy]

I guess Putin doesn't know anything about how the wind works and radiation?

[Stu from NYC]

I guess Putin doesn't know anything about how the wind works and radiation?

Nobody would win an all out nuclear war.

[MartinSE]

I guess Putin doesn't know anything about how the wind works and radiation?

Putin is a sociopath and part of that is narcissism. As such, he can't concieve that anyone can stand up to him, or beat him. He seriously believes he can do anything he wants.

If you have been following the news reports, it seems he has been very angry with some of his generals because things are not going how he thought they should. Being a narcissist it can't be his mistake, so he has to blame others.

This relates to the MAD issue. He can't conceive that he could be destroyed. So, it is not a deterrent to him. Our best hope is either a special forces team sent in to assassinate him, or some of his own people take him out.

It is a very precarious situation for everyone.

[JMintzer]

I thought Stalin is in a glass case in Red Square? Or was that Walt Disney?

Walt's on ice, under the Magic Kingdom...

[jimjamuser]

An old Battalion Commander once told me that you should pound the enemy with long range ordinance unmercifully before committing troops.
It seems that the Russians are following a slow methodical advance, saving the troops for the occupation.
Putin has 7,000 dead and about 14,000 injured. A lot of Russian tank crews have left their tanks sit there and given up or just walked away. I'll be curious how things go when the US Switchblade drones are used. I think that it is about 50/50 that the Ukraine wins the war outright. And about 50/50 that Putin gets overthrown. Most Dictators do not last more than 20 years. Germany's army will be stronger than the Russian army in about 2 years.

[GRACEALLEMAN]

I guess we will find out how crazy Putin really is. He is threatening to target weapons systems bing brought into Ukraine. If he does that while they are still in Poland, then we have an attack on a NATO ally and will have to respond. If we have to respond, I hope we respond with overwhelming force and not get into a tit-for-tat match.

Biden is a mannequin shell. No Brainer that he is weak

[jimjamuser]

Russia may be able to level the Ukrainian landscape by force, and replace the leaders with puppets, but Russia will never conquer the hearts of the people of Ukraine that have tasted freedom...

Someone down at City Fire said that Putin was intent on reestablishing the buffer between Russia and the NATO countries that he had with the pro-Russian government that had been in place in the Ukraine...the one that the West helped put the skids under
...I wasn't able to hear the rest of his story, our table was ready and we left the bar area
The real reason that Putin invaded Ukraine was that he saw them having a better life by becoming Western - while the lives of ordinary Russians were stuck in a bad place and going nowhere. Eventually, with social media, the Russians would want what the Ukrainians have and begin to blame Putin and his Oligarchs. Then Putin could lose his position or even his life. So, that fear was driving him. And this was a good time because Europe was weak and not united - and America was divided. But, America surprised him by exhibiting togetherness and strong leadership. Now it is going to be difficult for Putin to call back his massive slow-moving Military. Putin almost must go forward - no matter how much it costs him in economic terms and soldiers' lives lost. He will either break the Ukraine or Russia. He may (?) get so desperate as to use tactical nuclear missiles, possibly at Mariupol.

[MartinSE]

Biden is a mannequin shell. No Brainer that he is weak

Wow, you know people have been given timeout for less political statements. I don't recall saying ANYTHING ab out Biden, but you just could not resist the opportunity to spew your political beliefs. #sad.

[MartinSE]

The real reason that Putin invaded Ukraine was that he saw them having a better life by becoming Western - while the lives of ordinary Russians were stuck in a bad place and going nowhere. Eventually, with social media, the Russians would want what the Ukrainians have and begin to blame Putin and his Oligarchs. Then Putin could lose his position or even his life. So, that fear was driving him. And this was a good time because Europe was weak and not united - and America was divided. But, America surprised him by exhibiting togetherness and strong leadership. Now it is going to be difficult for Putin to call back his massive slow-moving Military. Putin almost must go forward - no matter how much it costs him in economic terms and soldiers' lives lost. He will either break the Ukraine or Russia. He may (?) get so desperate as to use tactical nuclear missiles, possibly at Mariupol.

I agree with you, but I think you left out the why, that being that Ukraine is a Democracy and Putin could not risk Russians seeing a next door Democracy resulting in a better life than his dictatorship.

[Stu from NYC]

I agree with you, but I think you left out the why, that being that Ukraine is a Democracy and Putin could not risk Russians seeing a next door Democracy resulting in a better life than his dictatorship.

You should add Russia very much wants a buffer between itself and Germany/Ukraine

[camaguey48]

Sorry, you are completely wrong on that post. I am not sure where you get that, but we both have the ability to completely destroy each other.
And no one wins.

[Taltarzac725]

How Putin Bungled His Invasion of Ukraine (https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/03/18/russia-putin-ukraine-war-three-weeks/)

I do hope this is Putin's Waterloo moment so to speak.

[Taltarzac725]

Battle of Cartagena de Indias - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cartagena_de_Indias)

Or maybe Putin's attack on Ukraine will wind up like the huge failure described above and by Gregory S. Aldrete, Ph.D. Professor, University of Wisconsin, Green Bay in his DVD and/or online course. The Great Courses (https://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/history-s-greatest-military-blunders-and-the-lessons-they-teach)

[jimjamuser]

I agree with you, but I think you left out the why, that being that Ukraine is a Democracy and Putin could not risk Russians seeing a next door Democracy resulting in a better life than his dictatorship.
True. I was trying to say the same thing when I wrote that the Ukraine was looking to the West.