Cruising still not that appealing . .

[CoachKandSportsguy]

From a posting on another site:
My dad's currently on a cruise round the mediterranean. And in isolation in his cabin after he and 125 other guests tested positive for COVID. Bear in mind that everyone on that boat needed to be triple vaccinated (and provide a negative test result) in order to set sail.


For those thinking that now is a great time for a cruise, you might spend your money and not quite get the experience you want, even with your YOLO attitude. . .

cautious spending guy

[Stu from NYC]

We know quite a few people from here who have cruised in past 4 months (us included) very successfully. We are sticking to Caribbean for now though.

[Garywt]

We are taking our first cruise in probably 10 years + in Sept. Flying out to Seattle and going to Alaska for the first time. Hope everything works out for us. We have a balcony and we insured the trip including the flight.

I currently have Covid myself along with my wife, daughter and grandson. So far for us it is like having the flu. Today was day 8 for my wife, the rest of us it is 2-4 days. My oncology team is worried about me and keeps checking but all is good.

Anyway I guess if you get quarantined you miss an entire 7 day cruise, defiantly would not want to be in an inside cabin. We are just hoping for the best come September.

[Arctic Fox]

I guess if you get quarantined you miss an entire 7 day cruise, defiantly would not want to be in an inside cabin. We are just hoping for the best come September.

Many cruise lines have a designated "isolation area" of balcony cabins, and will move you there if you need to be quarantined

[rjn5656]

Just returned from a Panama Canal cruise. No issues. Masks were not required, but about 20% of the people wore them.

[billethkid]

If the current status of the "pandemic" holds or evolves to endemic we are going the week after Thanksgiving.
We are vaccinated and boosted and will have our second boost by then.

If masking should revert back to being required we will cancel (again).....this is our third attempt since 2020.

Princess cruise line cancellation policy has been very good about either refunding or future cruise crediting paid monies.

[golfing eagles]

Just returned from a Panama Canal cruise. No issues. Masks were not required, but about 20% of the people wore them.

Sounds a bit high, but may be in the ballpark for a cruise. I was at the Sharon last week and out of 900+ attendees, I could only spot 5 with a mask, although there could have been more. So my question to these 1-20% minority who are wearing the paper masks is this: Are you so incredibly altruistic that you believe you are protecting the other 99% from yourself, or are you so incredibly stupid that you still believe a paper mask is protecting yourself? I think 99% of us know that answer. And please, no idiotic responses such as "any protection is better than none" or "I feel safer wearing one" , you would just be making the point. People with legitimate medical concerns are exempt.

[BlueStarAirlines]

I just got back from a cruise and only the staff worse masks. There was the occasional masked passenger, but counted maybe 3-4 during the entire 8 day cruise.

We've done two since January with both being in the Caribbean. The only difference noticed between now and pre-COVID is there was more of an emphasis on hand washing and the buffet is not self-serve.

[Arctic Fox]

Are you so incredibly altruistic that you believe you are protecting the other 99% from yourself, or are you so incredibly stupid that you still believe a paper mask is protecting yourself?

It is a personal decision.

Whether or not you choose to use the topic as an excuse to be offensive to others - well, that is a personal decision for you.

[RedChariot]

Sounds a bit high, but may be in the ballpark for a cruise. I was at the Sharon last week and out of 900+ attendees, I could only spot 5 with a mask, although there could have been more. So my question to these 1-20% minority who are wearing the paper masks is this: Are you so incredibly altruistic that you believe you are protecting the other 99% from yourself, or are you so incredibly stupid that you still believe a paper mask is protecting yourself? I think 99% of us know that answer. And please, no idiotic responses such as "any protection is better than none" or "I feel safer wearing one" , you would just be making the point. People with legitimate medical concerns are exempt.

I do believe you are a medical doctor. Yes? Is it your professional opinion that wearing a mask is ineffective and a waste of our time? What advise can you give us to avoid Covid in addition to vaccines and boosters. My husband and I were at the Sharon about a month ago to see Jay Leno. We and one other man were the only ones wearing a mask. Including the staff. I am high risk.

[golfing eagles]

I do believe you are a medical doctor. Yes? Is it your professional opinion that wearing a mask is ineffective and a waste of our time? What advise can you give us to avoid Covid in addition to vaccines and boosters. My husband and I were at the Sharon about a month ago to see Jay Leno. We and one other man were the only ones wearing a mask. Including the staff. I am high risk.

Like I said, legitimate medical reasons are exempt. If you are high risk, just wear a N-95 mask when in public, probably unnecessary for you when housesitting unless someone else is there. My comments were directed at those useless paper masks. And the best advice to avoid COVID besides vaccination is social distancing of at least 6 feet. For anyone who is moderately or severely immunocompromised (ANC <500), they probably should avoid crowds totally.

[golfing eagles]

It is a personal decision.

Whether or not you choose to use the topic as an excuse to be offensive to others - well, that is a personal decision for you.

But it's not a personal decision, it's a scientific/medical decision. Which means that decision should be made on the facts, NOT "feelings". And what you call "offensive" might just as easily be considered "educational", in a rather harsh manner. If someone wants to wear a paper mask on a cruise, fine, they have that right. But they also have the right to wear their life preserver 24/7 or wear a helmet on the flight to the departure port. I'm sure someone will retort that those are ridiculous analogies, but in reality, they are exactly the same-----the illusion of safety where no actual safety exists. In fact, I could make a better case for the life preserver or helmet, since the former will give protection in case the ship sinks or you fall overboard, and the latter in case of a low speed crash such as while taxiing.

[Arctic Fox]

But it's not a personal decision, it's a scientific/medical decision. Which means that decision should be made on the facts, NOT "feelings".

I am going on a Cunard ship tomorrow, and the current rules are:

Cunard requires cruisers to wear face masks that cover their nose and mouth when indoors and when seated in the theater. When seated in other venues, masks may be removed, even if passengers are not eating or drinking. Face coverings are also not required outdoors, in cabins or while exercising (indoors or outside).


Whatever your "facts" and "feelings", I am required to wear a mask under those circumstances. You may consider it pointless (many other medical professionals would disagree with you) but that won't carry much weight with Cunard, or other carriers that require the wearing of a mask.

And to claim that your calling the minority who chose to wear a mask at the Sharon "incredibly stupid" is educational! Thank goodness you went into medicine, not teaching.

[golfing eagles]

I am going on a Cunard ship tomorrow, and the current rules are:

Cunard requires cruisers to wear face masks that cover their nose and mouth when indoors and when seated in the theater. When seated in other venues, masks may be removed, even if passengers are not eating or drinking. Face coverings are also not required outdoors, in cabins or while exercising (indoors or outside).


Whatever your "facts" and "feelings", I am required to wear a mask under those circumstances. You may consider it pointless (many other medical professionals would disagree with you) but that won't carry much weight with Cunard, or other carriers that require the wearing of a mask.

And to claim that your calling the minority who chose to wear a mask at the Sharon "incredibly stupid" is educational! Thank goodness you went into medicine, not teaching.

First of all, I didn't call ANYONE incredibly stupid. I posed a question, of which that was one possible answer. That answer ONLY applies to those that go into a crowded venue with a paper mask and believe/think/feel that they are protecting themselves. BTW, the "medical professionals" that would disagree with me are WRONG. As far as your cruise goes, of course you have to follow the rules of the cruise line, no one would suggest that you shouldn't (of course, when you get there, you will probably run into quite a few that will ignore that rule. Too bad, since a recent cruise that required 2 shots, a booster, and a negative test 72 hours prior STILL had 100+ passengers come down with COVID. I have no idea if any of them were sick and no idea why they would test anyone during the cruise that wasn't sick, but it goes to show nothing is 100% safe) Finally, have a great time on your cruise!!!! Bon Voyage!!!!

[tophcfa]

Sounds a bit high, but may be in the ballpark for a cruise. I was at the Sharon last week and out of 900+ attendees, I could only spot 5 with a mask, although there could have been more. So my question to these 1-20% minority who are wearing the paper masks is this: Are you so incredibly altruistic that you believe you are protecting the other 99% from yourself, or are you so incredibly stupid that you still believe a paper mask is protecting yourself? I think 99% of us know that answer. And please, no idiotic responses such as "any protection is better than none" or "I feel safer wearing one" , you would just be making the point. People with legitimate medical concerns are exempt.

We totally agree that wearing a paper mask would not give us the protection we are seeking while surrounded by many people not wearing masks in an indoor space. Our solution is simple, we stay away from those situations. Easy peasy.

[davem4616]

We've been on a number of cruises....but on the small ships, like Windstar

IMHO, the smaller ships are more to my liking for a number of reasons

- there's usually less than 300 passengers on board
- the ratio of staff to passenger is higher
- they dock at smaller ports, so you're not unloading with 5 other huge ships
- the food and the service

...okay, you don't get the big Broadway Shows, but the entertainment is always great

[Arctic Fox]

First of all, I didn't call ANYONE incredibly stupid. I posed a question, of which that was one possible answer.

"Are you so incredibly altruistic that you believe you are protecting the other 99% from yourself, or are you so incredibly stupid that you still believe a paper mask is protecting yourself? I think 99% of us know that answer."

So did you mean that the 99% of people who "know that answer" believe that those wearing a mask at the Sharon are incredibly altruistic? If not, then you are saying that they are incredibly stupid.

"Oh what a tangled web we weave when our intent is to deceive."

It's never too late to apologize.

[golfing eagles]

"Are you so incredibly altruistic that you believe you are protecting the other 99% from yourself, or are you so incredibly stupid that you still believe a paper mask is protecting yourself? I think 99% of us know that answer."

So did you mean that the 99% of people who "know that answer" believe that those wearing a mask at the Sharon are incredibly altruistic? If not, then you are saying that they are incredibly stupid.

"Oh what a tangled web we weave when our intent is to deceive."

It's never too late to apologize.

I'm not saying it, it would be the 99% IF that was the reason. You know what they say when you ASSUME. Nevertheless, please have a great time on your voyage!

[Stu from NYC]

We've been on a number of cruises....but on the small ships, like Windstar

IMHO, the smaller ships are more to my liking for a number of reasons

- there's usually less than 300 passengers on board
- the ratio of staff to passenger is higher
- they dock at smaller ports, so you're not unloading with 5 other huge ships
- the food and the service

...okay, you don't get the big Broadway Shows, but the entertainment is always great

My understanding on smaller ships you get one choice of entertainment each night. On larger ships you have a number of choices. For example on our last cruise which was on Carnival we saw a show in main theatre or you have a choice of cover band, piano bar entertainer or comedy show each night.

[Garywt]

First of all, I didn't call ANYONE incredibly stupid. I posed a question, of which that was one possible answer. That answer ONLY applies to those that go into a crowded venue with a paper mask and believe/think/feel that they are protecting themselves. BTW, the "medical professionals" that would disagree with me are WRONG. As far as your cruise goes, of course you have to follow the rules of the cruise line, no one would suggest that you shouldn't (of course, when you get there, you will probably run into quite a few that will ignore that rule. Too bad, since a recent cruise that required 2 shots, a booster, and a negative test 72 hours prior STILL had 100+ passengers come down with COVID. I have no idea if any of them were sick and no idea why they would test anyone during the cruise that wasn't sick, but it goes to show nothing is 100% safe) Finally, have a great time on your cruise!!!! Bon Voyage!!!!
Since many or most Villagers never believed that Covid existed and refused to protect themselves or others from day 1 I can understand a comment like this.

What ever the case may be ever week when I walk into the hospital I am handed a new mask and asked to toss my old mask in the trash. Every employee and patient must wear a mask if in the building. I guess if you refuse you will be sent outside to remain sick or possibly die. Your choice.

[Garywt]

Since many or most Villagers never believed that Covid existed and refused to protect themselves or others from day 1 I can understand a comment like this.

What ever the case may be ever week when I walk into the hospital I am handed a new mask and asked to toss my old mask in the trash. Every employee and patient must wear a mask if in the building. I guess if you refuse you will be sent outside to remain sick or possibly die. Your choice.

You did ask if people are incredibly stupid which I guess makes you incredible brilliant but we know that is not correct.

[golfing eagles]

You did ask if people are incredibly stupid which I guess makes you incredible brilliant but we know that is not correct.

All I can say is that some people lack reading comprehension and clearly don't know when they are comparing apples to oranges. Also, since you do not know me you can't possibly know if I'm incredibly brilliant or not. Other than that, you two comments, well, res ipsa loquitur

[Garywt]

All I can say is that some people lack reading comprehension and clearly don't know when they are comparing apples to oranges. Also, since you do not know me you can't possibly know if I'm incredibly brilliant or not. Other than that, you two comments, well, res ipsa loquitur

First I have read previous comments from you so I know brilliant is not the word to use

Also good for you to admit you have been shown negligence in your comments here.

Finally, here is the comment you made that you claim you didn’t: are you so incredibly stupid that you still believe a paper mask is protecting yourself?

So believe what you want but we all know what the problem is.

[skippy05]

Cruises are an actual incubator and breeding ground for all kinds of illnesses. Anyone who hasn't figured this out by now is wearing rose-colored glasses 24/7.

[Professor]

First of all, I didn't call ANYONE incredibly stupid. I posed a question, of which that was one possible answer. That answer ONLY applies to those that go into a crowded venue with a paper mask and believe/think/feel that they are protecting themselves. BTW, the "medical professionals" that would disagree with me are WRONG. As far as your cruise goes, of course you have to follow the rules of the cruise line, no one would suggest that you shouldn't (of course, when you get there, you will probably run into quite a few that will ignore that rule. Too bad, since a recent cruise that required 2 shots, a booster, and a negative test 72 hours prior STILL had 100+ passengers come down with COVID. I have no idea if any of them were sick and no idea why they would test anyone during the cruise that wasn't sick, but it goes to show nothing is 100% safe) Finally, have a great time on your cruise!!!! Bon Voyage!!!!

Glad to know you are such an expert on medical issues. If you don't agree with something going on that is not hurting you or anyone else, why attack others for their beliefs. You must be miserable to live with...

[thevillages2013]

Sounds a bit high, but may be in the ballpark for a cruise. I was at the Sharon last week and out of 900+ attendees, I could only spot 5 with a mask, although there could have been more. So my question to these 1-20% minority who are wearing the paper masks is this: Are you so incredibly altruistic that you believe you are protecting the other 99% from yourself, or are you so incredibly stupid that you still believe a paper mask is protecting yourself? I think 99% of us know that answer. And please, no idiotic responses such as "any protection is better than none" or "I feel safer wearing one" , you would just be making the point. People with legitimate medical concerns are exempt.
Thanks for speaking the truth!

[wayneman]

Sounds a bit high, but may be in the ballpark for a cruise. I was at the Sharon last week and out of 900+ attendees, I could only spot 5 with a mask, although there could have been more. So my question to these 1-20% minority who are wearing the paper masks is this: Are you so incredibly altruistic that you believe you are protecting the other 99% from yourself, or are you so incredibly stupid that you still believe a paper mask is protecting yourself? I think 99% of us know that answer. And please, no idiotic responses such as "any protection is better than none" or "I feel safer wearing one" , you would just be making the point. People with legitimate medical concerns are exempt.
As a UF Health employee it is MANDATORY to wear a mask at every moment you are in the hosp. They only exception is while eating in cafeteria.
I will forward your response to them about your opinion that masks are ridiculous. Oh, and not all masks are N 95. The majority of masks are Just plain
Low grade “medical” masks. So maybe you could help us get this ridiculous policy reversed.

[golfing eagles]

Since many or most Villagers never believed that Covid existed and refused to protect themselves or others from day 1 I can understand a comment like this.

What ever the case may be ever week when I walk into the hospital I am handed a new mask and asked to toss my old mask in the trash. Every employee and patient must wear a mask if in the building. I guess if you refuse you will be sent outside to remain sick or possibly die. Your choice.

First I have read previous comments from you so I know brilliant is not the word to use

Also good for you to admit you have been shown negligence in your comments here.

Finally, here is the comment you made that you claim you didn’t: are you so incredibly stupid that you still believe a paper mask is protecting yourself?

So believe what you want but we all know what the problem is.

Alex, I'll take partial quotes out of context for $400 please. Or do you work for the news media that does that all the time? So here is the WHOLE question posed: "So my question to these 1-20% minority who are wearing the paper masks is this: Are you so incredibly altruistic that you believe you are protecting the other 99% from yourself, or are you so incredibly stupid that you still believe a paper mask is protecting yourself?"
Note the word "OR", it really isn't that hard to understand.

As far as the hospital mask policy goes, what does that have to do with cruising or a performance at the Sharon???? Answer----NOTHING (unless it is a cruise of immunocompromised patients).

So yes, we do know what the problem is, and you stayed up to 2:15 to post that nonsense.

[golfing eagles]

As a UF Health employee it is MANDATORY to wear a mask at every moment you are in the hosp. They only exception is while eating in cafeteria.
I will forward your response to them about your opinion that masks are ridiculous. Oh, and not all masks are N 95. The majority of masks are Just plain
Low grade “medical” masks. So maybe you could help us get this ridiculous policy reversed.

Wow---yet another poster that wants to equate the hospital setting with a cruise or show. Amazing. Let's try this a different way. Could you please list the differences between an inpatient setting with hospital employees in direct contact with potentially immunocompromised patients and a cruise ship. If you can't, please refrain from posting garbage.

[golfing eagles]

Glad to know you are such an expert on medical issues. If you don't agree with something going on that is not hurting you or anyone else, why attack others for their beliefs. You must be miserable to live with...

Another who wants to state it is a "belief", as if masks were Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny. It is a fact, not a "belief", so follow the science. There are people who belong to the Flat Earth Society who "believe" the world is flat. That "belief" isn't hurting anyone else either, but everyone retains the right to ridicule it. Just because there are more misguided people who "believe" a paper mask protects them doesn't make it any different. And BTW , I AM an expert on medical issues.

[Sandy and Ed]

We know quite a few people from here who have cruised in past 4 months (us included) very successfully. We are sticking to Caribbean for now though.
Yup. We went on a cruise over Thanksgiving, then Christmas/NewYear, our Blue Stone Vircle cruise fell apart but we are now heading out on a Panama transit in April. At 75 not going to hang up one of the outlets we enjoy due to the China virus.

[Petersweeney]

IMHO, the smaller ships are more to my liking for a number of reasons

- there's usually less than 300 passengers on board
- the ratio of staff to passenger is higher
- they dock at smaller ports, so you're not unloading with 5 other huge ships
- the food and the service

- they let you jump off the side and do canon balls
-tap beer is self serve and is 24/7
-captain let’s you drive the ship
- elephant walks at 3am right after panty raids

[paulajr]

wow...you really believe that "Many or most" don't believe COVID exists? WRONG. Perhaps we just didn't believe all the HYPE around it. There is a difference between being "careful" and being obsessed and terrified.

[paulajr]

Since many or most Villagers never believed that Covid existed and refused to protect themselves or others from day 1 I can understand a comment like this.

What ever the case may be ever week when I walk into the hospital I am handed a new mask and asked to toss my old mask in the trash. Every employee and patient must wear a mask if in the building. I guess if you refuse you will be sent outside to remain sick or possibly die. Your choice.

wow...you really believe that "Many or most"here don't believe COVID exists? WRONG. Perhaps we just didn't believe all the HYPE around it. There is a difference between being "careful" and being obsessed and terrified.

[rrtjp]

Well said Arctic Fox

[asiebel]

We just returned from Panama Canal Cruise and no problems.

[Dendrn]

What line is he on? We are booked for mid May on Viking and I have COVID concers.

[Worldseries27]

it is a personal decision.

Whether or not you choose to use the topic as an excuse to be offensive to others - well, that is a personal decision for you.
anger always finds a way.

[golfing eagles]

anger always finds a way.

So does stupidity

[Taurus510]

[QUOTE=Garywt;2077900]Since many or most Villagers never believed that Covid existed and refused to protect themselves or others from day 1 I can understand a comment like this.

I see this obvious spin from many. I doubt that any Villagers doubted that the Rona existed as stated. What I and many others believed was that the REACTION to the Rona was massively overblown and harmful to the world economy and personal health. There is a huge difference, and we know what damage was wrought on the world’s economy. The damage to so many lives is starting to be known, and it is already extreme, and I expect it will be shocking as we learn more.

[RedChariot]

Like I said, legitimate medical reasons are exempt. If you are high risk, just wear a N-95 mask when in public, probably unnecessary for you when housesitting unless someone else is there. My comments were directed at those useless paper masks. And the best advice to avoid COVID besides vaccination is social distancing of at least 6 feet. For anyone who is moderately or severely immunocompromised (ANC <500), they probably should avoid crowds totally.

Thank You for the clarification.

[Ptmckiou]

Sounds a bit high, but may be in the ballpark for a cruise. I was at the Sharon last week and out of 900+ attendees, I could only spot 5 with a mask, although there could have been more. So my question to these 1-20% minority who are wearing the paper masks is this: Are you so incredibly altruistic that you believe you are protecting the other 99% from yourself, or are you so incredibly stupid that you still believe a paper mask is protecting yourself? I think 99% of us know that answer. And please, no idiotic responses such as "any protection is better than none" or "I feel safer wearing one" , you would just be making the point. People with legitimate medical concerns are exempt.


Incredible stupid? Really? I wear a N95 mask. The same type mask doctors wear. You can can order them online. The 95 means it filters out 95% of all viruses. And yes….it’s a white cloth mask but with special construction to pass certification. You go to a hospital to visit a friend, you’re required to wear a N95, and they will give it to you.

[golfing eagles]

Thank You for the clarification.

Your welcome. And a little further clarification for those who apparently failed to grasp my meaning earlier and are conflating institutional/public health policy with individual protection. Why did the CDC/FAA/NIH advocate masks???? Because in groups it helps prevent the spread of COVID, primarily by decreasing the ability of an infected person to transmit droplets to others. This in turn will reduce the number of infected individuals which then decreases spread and so on. At the very least it spreads out the peak in time so hospitals aren't overwhelmed. However, as individual protection against contracting the virus, paper masks are as close to useless as you can get, which is the point I made rather bluntly. But, I still held out hope that many of those individuals were in the "altruistic" category.

[MandoMan]

I am going on a Cunard ship tomorrow, and the current rules are:

Cunard requires cruisers to wear face masks that cover their nose and mouth when indoors and when seated in the theater. When seated in other venues, masks may be removed, even if passengers are not eating or drinking. Face coverings are also not required outdoors, in cabins or while exercising (indoors or outside).


Whatever your "facts" and "feelings", I am required to wear a mask under those circumstances. You may consider it pointless (many other medical professionals would disagree with you) but that won't carry much weight with Cunard, or other carriers that require the wearing of a mask.

And to claim that your calling the minority who chose to wear a mask at the Sharon "incredibly stupid" is educational! Thank goodness you went into medicine, not teaching.

If you were having major surgery, would you want everyone in the OR to wear a mask? I would! People breathe out germs from their noses and lungs, and droplets of saliva spray out when they talk. Cultures are taken from noses for Covid testing, so people who have it have it there, ready to share. Half a century ago I spent three years at an operating room table passing instruments to doctors. Two years were in the US, wearing good quality disposable masks designed to catch droplets. (They weren’t paper. More
Iike special non-woven fabrics.) One year was in Africa, where our sponges were made of the same absorbable, multi-layer cotton fabric as laparotomy sponges. These were laundered, boiled, dried in the sun, and reused. There were no N-95 masks yet. I like to believe those masks served a purpose and prevented the spreading of micro-organisms. They were required. When they were invented, their use cut infections. When I arrived in Africa, my OR had a 50% surgical infection rate. When I left, it was 2%. Required sterile technique works. Properly worn, high quality masks do filter out organisms, each way. I know of a study in the UK based on surgeries done without masks that says they don’t stop the spread of infection in the OR, but I’d like corroboration of that, and I still don’t want people coughing in my face.

[Bill Torres]

It boils down to respecting what everyone feels toward this subject. Don’t let it allow anyone to lose any sleep because of what everyone is doing.

[golfing eagles]

Incredible stupid? Really? I wear a N95 mask. The same type mask doctors wear. You can can order them online. The 95 means it filters out 95% of all viruses. And yes….it’s a white cloth mask but with special construction to pass certification. You go to a hospital to visit a friend, you’re required to wear a N95, and they will give it to you.

Agree, about N-95's

Now what does that have to do with PAPER masks?????

[golfing eagles]

If you were having major surgery, would you want everyone in the OR to wear a mask? I would! People breathe out germs from their noses and lungs, and droplets of saliva spray out when they talk. Cultures are taken from noses for Covid testing, so people who have it have it there, ready to share. Half a century ago I spent three years at an operating room table passing instruments to doctors. Two years were in the US, wearing good quality disposable masks designed to catch droplets. (They weren’t paper. More
Iike special non-woven fabrics.) One year was in Africa, where our sponges were made of the same absorbable, multi-layer cotton fabric as laparotomy sponges. These were laundered, boiled, dried in the sun, and reused. There were no N-95 masks yet. I like to believe those masks served a purpose and prevented the spreading of micro-organisms. They were required. When they were invented, their use cut infections. When I arrived in Africa, my OR had a 50% surgical infection rate. When I left, it was 2%. Required sterile technique works. Properly worn, high quality masks do filter out organisms, each way. I know of a study in the UK based on surgeries done without masks that says they don’t stop the spread of infection in the OR, but I’d like corroboration of that, and I still don’t want people coughing in my face.

And all of that is true and well stated----about other people wearing masks around you. It does not change the almost nil value of wearing a paper mask to protect yourself

[merrymini]

The paper masks are actually not paper.
The only thing worse than “paper” masks are cloth ones.
The lies perpetrated around this virus are sad.
The people who believe them are sadder.

[Gulfcoast]

But it's not a personal decision, it's a scientific/medical decision. Which means that decision should be made on the facts, NOT "feelings". And what you call "offensive" might just as easily be considered "educational", in a rather harsh manner. If someone wants to wear a paper mask on a cruise, fine, they have that right. But they also have the right to wear their life preserver 24/7 or wear a helmet on the flight to the departure port. I'm sure someone will retort that those are ridiculous analogies, but in reality, they are exactly the same-----the illusion of safety where no actual safety exists. In fact, I could make a better case for the life preserver or helmet, since the former will give protection in case the ship sinks or you fall overboard, and the latter in case of a low speed crash such as while taxiing.

I agree with your analogies. I suppose we could say the same thing about the triple vaxed who still wind up getting Covid. Why insist that passengers on a cruise ship be "fully vaccinated" if they can still get Covid and wind up in quarantine anyway?

Wouldn't it be better to just accept that there is a contagious and ever mutating virus going around and that if you go into crowded places like concerts, sporting events, cruises, etc - you accept the risk of doing so?

I've had the most recent variation of Covid and my symptoms were so mild that I thought it was seasonal allergies. It was basically a head cold. Most of the people that I know who have had it have experienced the same sort of thing. It's when it starts to go into your chest that you should get yourself into a doctor.

[hrenner]

Sounds a bit high, but may be in the ballpark for a cruise. I was at the Sharon last week and out of 900+ attendees, I could only spot 5 with a mask, although there could have been more. So my question to these 1-20% minority who are wearing the paper masks is this: Are you so incredibly altruistic that you believe you are protecting the other 99% from yourself, or are you so incredibly stupid that you still believe a paper mask is protecting yourself? I think 99% of us know that answer. And please, no idiotic responses such as "any protection is better than none" or "I feel safer wearing one" , you would just be making the point. People with legitimate medical concerns are exempt.
You don't have to be so nasty

[camaguey48]

I do believe you are a medical doctor. Yes? Is it your professional opinion that wearing a mask is ineffective and a waste of our time? What advise can you give us to avoid Covid in addition to vaccines and boosters. My husband and I were at the Sharon about a month ago to see Jay Leno. We and one other man were the only ones wearing a mask. Including the staff. I am high risk.
High risk? Perhaps to you, not the rest of us. Keep doing what you're doing, I have a feeling it's working out for you.

[golfing eagles]

I agree with your analogies. I suppose we could say the same thing about the triple vaxed who still wind up getting Covid. Why insist that passengers on a cruise ship be "fully vaccinated" if they can still get Covid and wind up in quarantine anyway?

Wouldn't it be better to just accept that there is a contagious and ever mutating virus going around and that if you go into crowded places like concerts, sporting events, cruises, etc - you accept the risk of doing so?

I've had the most recent variation of Covid and my symptoms were so mild that I thought it was seasonal allergies. It was basically a head cold. Most of the people that I know who have had it have experienced the same sort of thing. It's when it starts to go into your chest that you should get yourself into a doctor.

The natural history of these viral pandemics is that the strains tend to become more contagious but less virulent and eventually fade away or turn into something much more benign. Many of our seasonal flu strains are direct descendants of the Spanish flu of 1918-19, and about 10-15% of "common cold" viruses are coronaviruses. Let's hope that is the case with COVID

[golfing eagles]

You don't have to be so nasty

Perhaps not, but back when I was "nice" about trying to shed light on fact and fiction regarding COVID, all I got was endless argument and debate from people who didn't have the slightest idea of what they were talking about, so, like Howard Stern, I'm trying the "shock jock" approach.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

I've had the most recent variation of Covid and my symptoms were so mild that I thought it was seasonal allergies. It was basically a head cold. Most of the people that I know who have had it have experienced the same sort of thing. It's when it starts to go into your chest that you should get yourself into a doctor.

Same here, but friends and I have had long lasting yunny sinus and post nasal drip resulting from inflamed nasal passages which have lasted several months, and uncertain if it will ever clear up. . . this results in daily coughing, which constantly irritates the throat. . .

so lucky if you get no longer lasting symptoms. . . but not everyone is so lucky. . hopefully time will resolve

[Jack65]

I agree with your analogies. I suppose we could say the same thing about the triple vaxed who still wind up getting Covid. Why insist that passengers on a cruise ship be "fully vaccinated" if they can still get Covid and wind up in quarantine anyway?

Wouldn't it be better to just accept that there is a contagious and ever mutating virus going around and that if you go into crowded places like concerts, sporting events, cruises, etc - you accept the risk of doing so?

I've had the most recent variation of Covid and my symptoms were so mild that I thought it was seasonal allergies. It was basically a head cold. Most of the people that I know who have had it have experienced the same sort of thing. It's when it starts to go into your chest that you should get yourself into a doctor.

There seems to be a lot of people that don’t realize there are many variants of coronavirus, and what is referred to as a positive test is just a positive test for one of the 7 or more coronaviruse. The test cannot distinguish one from another. My neighbor has had positive tests 4 times over the past 2 years and he has been vaccinated boosted etc. symptoms are mild (common cold). As long as Fauci is on TV though we will continue with this discussion.

[JuneMarkridge]

The “paper mask” you are referring to I imagine is what is known as a “surgical” mask - “medical” face mask or “procedure” mask which fall under the category of PPE and is a barrier that reduces airborne transmission of pathogens. It is better than a cloth mask but of course not as effective as an N95. And most certainly the fit is very important. When indoors in a large venue, with a large crowd I certainly will continue to wear my mask. Last I heard the pandemic was not over… and a new more easily transmissible strain is on the scene. I hope you really are not that selfish that for 2 hours you cannot sit with a mask on to possibly prevent the spread of a virus you may be harboring??? Is it your - let me use your term “stupidity” that makes you uninformed about how Covid is transmitted??? I wear my mask to protect myself and whoever might be sitting around me. I don’t know who has a health issue and might not be able to fight this deadly virus even if they are vaccinated and boosted. It is not altruism or stupidity but common sense and curtesy!!!
If you don’t think masks work, would tell the surgeon that he need not wear a mask if you needed surgery???

[Stu from NYC]

I agree with your analogies. I suppose we could say the same thing about the triple vaxed who still wind up getting Covid. Why insist that passengers on a cruise ship be "fully vaccinated" if they can still get Covid and wind up in quarantine anyway?

Wouldn't it be better to just accept that there is a contagious and ever mutating virus going around and that if you go into crowded places like concerts, sporting events, cruises, etc - you accept the risk of doing so?

I've had the most recent variation of Covid and my symptoms were so mild that I thought it was seasonal allergies. It was basically a head cold. Most of the people that I know who have had it have experienced the same sort of thing. It's when it starts to go into your chest that you should get yourself into a doctor.

The people on a cruise ship who get vaccinated and catch the virus usually do not get serious case and die from it.

[golfing eagles]

The “paper mask” you are referring to I imagine is what is known as a “surgical” mask - “medical” face mask or “procedure” mask which fall under the category of PPE and is a barrier that reduces airborne transmission of pathogens. It is better than a cloth mask but of course not as effective as an N95. And most certainly the fit is very important. When indoors in a large venue, with a large crowd I certainly will continue to wear my mask. Last I heard the pandemic was not over… and a new more easily transmissible strain is on the scene. I hope you really are not that selfish that for 2 hours you cannot sit with a mask on to possibly prevent the spread of a virus you may be harboring??? Is it your - let me use your term “stupidity” that makes you uninformed about how Covid is transmitted??? I wear my mask to protect myself and whoever might be sitting around me. I don’t know who has a health issue and might not be able to fight this deadly virus even if they are vaccinated and boosted. It is not altruism or stupidity but common sense and curtesy!!!
If you don’t think masks work, would tell the surgeon that he need not wear a mask if you needed surgery???

Now that is truly laughable, best one yet. I'M UNINFORMED!:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:
Ok, I guess I'm stuck educating you. You get a partial pass since this is your first post.

You may certainly wear your mask to protect those around you---that fits into the altruism category and I applaud you. As far as protecting yourself, well, that has already been addressed. And again it is not "common sense", it is scientific and medical fact. The problem is that many have "made up their own minds" based on the internet, or their hairdresser, or the voodoo high priestess. And you close with a statement that completely delineates your misinformation----when I wore a mask while performing surgery, it was not to protect myself, it was to protect the patient. If the patient had something highly contagious, let's say meningococcemia, we used a whole different level of protection.

[JMintzer]

If you were having major surgery, would you want everyone in the OR to wear a mask? I would! People breathe out germs from their noses and lungs, and droplets of saliva spray out when they talk. Cultures are taken from noses for Covid testing, so people who have it have it there, ready to share. Half a century ago I spent three years at an operating room table passing instruments to doctors. Two years were in the US, wearing good quality disposable masks designed to catch droplets. (They weren’t paper. More
Iike special non-woven fabrics.) One year was in Africa, where our sponges were made of the same absorbable, multi-layer cotton fabric as laparotomy sponges. These were laundered, boiled, dried in the sun, and reused. There were no N-95 masks yet. I like to believe those masks served a purpose and prevented the spreading of micro-organisms. They were required. When they were invented, their use cut infections. When I arrived in Africa, my OR had a 50% surgical infection rate. When I left, it was 2%. Required sterile technique works. Properly worn, high quality masks do filter out organisms, each way. I know of a study in the UK based on surgeries done without masks that says they don’t stop the spread of infection in the OR, but I’d like corroboration of that, and I still don’t want people coughing in my face.

OR masks are not designed to protect anyone from viruses. It's BACTERIA, which are exponentially larger than viruses...

You're comparing apples to kumquats...

[NJSonja]

We know quite a few people from here who have cruised in past 4 months (us included) very successfully. We are sticking to Caribbean for now though.

we are sticking with the Caribbean now too. They stole 2 years from us and life keeps moving. We've been on 3 since September and thankfully have not gotten ill. In August I'm supposed to go to Iceland, but who knows how that will be (on a cruise). I can't stop living. IMHO

[Gulfcoast]

The people on a cruise ship who get vaccinated and catch the virus usually do not get serious case and die from it.

I think the same could be said for unvaccinated people - they usually don't get a serious case and die from it, either. Of course, there are no cruises for the unvaxed to use for comparison purposes.

I can say that I was at a hotel/casino/event venue that had the policy that the guests were responsible for assessing and mitigating their own risks. There were only a handful of people that I saw wearing masks and, of course, there was no way to tell who was/was not vaxxed. Some were, some weren't. No one seemed too worried about it either way. I would be fine going on a cruise with the same sort of policy.

[SHERYLNOLAND]

As with so many that preach "personal choice," your remarks imply that any other's personal choice that disagrees with your personal choice is either incredibly altruistic or incredibly stupid...since you have no mind reading skills indicated, you also have no way of knowing anyone's "medical concerns." Additionally, mask wearing may be no more than a sensory reminder not to touch one's face when in public. Finally, why is someone else's mask wearing any of your concern or meriting your comment, at all..? How omniscient you must be, to be the arbiter of everyone's conduct! Exhausting, I'm sure! You should go take a nap, and give your commentary a rest!


Sounds a bit high, but may be in the ballpark for a cruise. I was at the Sharon last week and out of 900+ attendees, I could only spot 5 with a mask, although there could have been more. So my question to these 1-20% minority who are wearing the paper masks is this: Are you so incredibly altruistic that you believe you are protecting the other 99% from yourself, or are you so incredibly stupid that you still believe a paper mask is protecting yourself? I think 99% of us know that answer. And please, no idiotic responses such as "any protection is better than none" or "I feel safer wearing one" , you would just be making the point. People with legitimate medical concerns are exempt.

[PugMom]

i'm going to have to side with Eagles here. my own doc tells me the paper masks are useless, & now it's not required @ Creekside Medical, just OPTIONAL.

[golfing eagles]

As with so many that preach "personal choice," your remarks imply that any other's personal choice that disagrees with your personal choice is either incredibly altruistic or incredibly stupid...since you have no mind reading skills indicated, you also have no way of knowing anyone's "medical concerns." Additionally, mask wearing may be no more than a sensory reminder not to touch one's face when in public. Finally, why is someone else's mask wearing any of your concern or meriting your comment, at all..? How omniscient you must be, to be the arbiter of everyone's conduct! Exhausting, I'm sure! You should go take a nap, and give your commentary a rest!

And here we have yet another ridiculous response that suggests "personal choice" over facts and science. May I suggest YOU make a "personal choice" to take a nap?
PS: Nice 2nd post in 9 years

[Garywt]

wow...you really believe that "Many or most"here don't believe COVID exists? WRONG. Perhaps we just didn't believe all the HYPE around it. There is a difference between being "careful" and being obsessed and terrified.

From day 1 Villages refused to keep away from each other and still met at the town squares etc refusing to follow the rules because their master told them it was fake.

[Stu from NYC]

From day 1 Villages refused to keep away from each other and still met at the town squares etc refusing to follow the rules because their master told them it was fake.

The vast majority were very good at social distancing. And yes there were too many people sitting at bars shoulder to shoulder however a small minority.

[Gulfcoast]

From day 1 Villages refused to keep away from each other and still met at the town squares etc refusing to follow the rules because their master told them it was fake.

And? Was there mass death and bodies being burned in the streets because Villagers continued to socialize? I don't recall hearing anything about that.

What I do know is that elderly people living in stand alone Independent Living apartments were still able to see their families, go to the grocery and otherwise get out.

Whereas, people living in LTCs (continuing care, assisted living, memory care, nursing homes) were more or less on lock down and kept isolated away from their families and the rest of the world and even masked and socially distanced from each other within their facilities. Were they safer from Covid? Probably. But that isolation was very hard on many of those elderly and their worrying family members. That was a big reason for the push to get the vaccine out there in record speed.

Masks have been bones of contention since the very beginning of this ordeal. And that hasn't changed. Overall, I prefer to just live the life that the good Lord gave me and not obsess about things that are beyond my control.

[Garywt]

Alex, I'll take partial quotes out of context for $400 please. Or do you work for the news media that does that all the time? So here is the WHOLE question posed: "So my question to these 1-20% minority who are wearing the paper masks is this: Are you so incredibly altruistic that you believe you are protecting the other 99% from yourself, or are you so incredibly stupid that you still believe a paper mask is protecting yourself?"
Note the word "OR", it really isn't that hard to understand.

As far as the hospital mask policy goes, what does that have to do with cruising or a performance at the Sharon???? Answer----NOTHING (unless it is a cruise of immunocompromised patients).



So yes, we do know what the problem is, and you stayed up to 2:15 to post that nonsense.

So you can make general comments on mask wearing but no one else can. In general you don’t support it and that is fine with you but the rest of the world is wrong if they don’t agree with you. People can do what they want, I don’t care but don’t tell others they are wrong, it is not your business. I follow the rules that are in place and what my oncologist tells me to do, I do not question him. As for being up at 2:15, just about every night I am up to 3-4 as I don’t sleep much since going on chemo almost 9 years ago.

[JuneMarkridge]

And again you are missing the point…as I said - would you tell a surgeon that a mask is not necessary??? Of course not because it certainly protects any transmission of a pathogen. Same for someone who chooses to wear a mask to protect others. Your post was not helpful - just divisive in my opinion and you are supposed to be a healer…

[Gulfcoast]

You all are aware that surgeons don't wear homemade cloth masks or dust masks when they operate on you, right? Even the medical grade surgical masks that they wear are intended more to keep the area sterile as they operate as opposed to stopping viruses.

A cruise ship is hardly a sterile operating room...and really shouldn't be viewed as such.

[Moderator]

Too much sniping and name calling, as per usual with anything related to masks and Covid.
Enough.