E 15 gasoline

[Fredman]

So pleased to hear that E15 gasoline will be available this summer. Whoops my car and a lot of other cars won’t run on E15.

[tophcfa]

E10 is bad enough, I prefer the E Zero.

[Michael G.]

So pleased to hear that E15 gasoline will be available this summer. Whoops my car and a lot of other cars won’t run on E15.

Vote people, get out and vote

[JoelJohnson]

Most modern cars will adjust (via the computer) for E15.

[Bogie Shooter]

Vote people, get out and vote

Does the ballot say E15, yes or no?

[Decadeofdave]

As I understand it, your mileage will be reduced by ethanol, I am not posting ( or posing) as an expert.

[JMintzer]

As I understand it, your mileage will be reduced by ethanol, I am not posting ( or posing) as an expert.

Ethanol contains about one-third less energy than gasoline. So, vehicles will typically go 3% to 4% fewer miles per gallon on E10 and 4% to 5% fewer on E15 than on 100% gasoline."...

[Topspinmo]

Just be thankful you’ll be able to get any gasoline

[villagetinker]

I am wondering if the use of E15 will have any effect on a vehicle's warranty????

Or a golf cart warranty, all of these state E10 gas.......

[CoachKandSportsguy]

I am not sure that I would make this a determinate for whom I vote, since I have a diesel. . . or otherwise. Am thinking this is a minor issue. . .

[Bill14564]

I am wondering if the use of E15 will have any effect on a vehicle's warranty????

Or a golf cart warranty, all of these state E10 gas.......

Both my vehicles state they can run on E15. However, my cart specifies E10. Not sure how E15 would affect the warranty on my cart but I would rather not find out.

I hope this newest move simply means that E15 will be available where E15 is normally available in the winter and all our E10 pumps will be unchanged.

[Fredman]

Most modern cars will adjust (via the computer) for E15.

The owners manual for my 2021 Santa Fe says not to use e15 because it could damage your engine and decrease your power. I will follow that. It also says use of e15 could affect the warranty

[Bill14564]

The owners manual for my 2021 Santa Fe says not to use e15 because it could damage your engine and decrease your power. I will follow that

Doesn't it read: Never use gasohol containing more than 15% ethanol?

E15 contains 15% or less ethanol and so would not seem to conflict with the guidance in the manual.

[Fredman]

Doesn't it read: Never use gasohol containing more than 15% ethanol?

E15 contains 15% or less ethanol and so would not seem to conflict with the guidance in the manual.

No, it reads that the Santa Fe is not suitable for e15 gasoline because it could damage your engine

[EdFNJ]

It seems you won't have to worry too much about it because most stations likely won't have it for quite a long time and by then it will probably be moot anyway.

E15 fuel is available only "at a few thousand pumps today," but said the U.S. will invest $100 million in biofuel infrastructure. E15 gas is currently available at about 2,300 fueling stations, according to the Department of Energy.

Even Uncle Sen. Chucky G is happy about it (read his Twitter posts) because it will make all his farmers happy and even the last guy ordered it available year round but the courts shut it down and even The Supremes refused to hear it so it can't be all bad. ;)

[EdFNJ]

No, it reads that the Santa Fe is not suitable for e15 gasoline because it could damage your engine Interesting. Seems true for 3rd gen (earlier than 2018) but 4th gen 2018-present it seems acceptable (but obviously not the best):

From 2021 Santa Fe manual page 1-5:
Gasoline containing alcohol and methanol
Gasohol, a mixture of gasoline and ethanol (also known as grain alcohol) are being
marketed along with or instead of leaded or unleaded gasoline. For example, “E15” is a
gasohol comprised of 15% ethanol and 85% gasoline.
Do not use gasohol containing more than 15% ethanol, and do not use gasoline or
gasohol containing any methanol.

All the engines available in the Hyundai Santa Fe lineup can run on regular 87 octane. Ethanol is only allowed up to 10% in all generations except for the fourth-gen (2018-present), which allows up to 15% ethanol by volume. MMT and methanol are not allowed at all. Regarding fuel additives, Hyundai recommends the TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline.


The Types Of Gas A Hyundai Santa Fe Takes (Explained) - The Driver Adviser (https://thedriveradviser.com/the-types-of-gas-a-hyundai-santa-fe-takes-explained/#:~:text=All%20the%20engines%20available%20in,to%2 015%25%20ethanol%20by%20volume).

[tophcfa]

So, let’s see if I understand. Food prices are soaring, the Russian invasion of Ukraine is disrupting the supply of wheat and other grain across many countries, and people are starving in many parts of the world. So let’s take an important source of food and use it to dilute gas and make it less efficient. Great friggin idea, NOT!

[Woodbear]

On a business show today they expected the cost per gallon of our current E10 blend to drop $0.10 a gallon at best. Given the reduced energy output of ethanol, the savings are a wash. Why risk your vehicle being damaged. For what it is worth, ethanol on the commodity market yesterday was selling for $3.56 a gallon.

[tophcfa]

If you take ethanol and add some sugar and other stuff to it to make it taste better, you basically have some really strong booze. I don’t want my truck to wake up with a hangover.

[MartinSE]

So, let’s see if I understand. Food prices are soaring, the Russian invasion of Ukraine is disrupting the supply of wheat and other grain across many countries, and people are starving in many parts of the world. So let’s take an important source of food and use it to dilute gas and make it less efficient. Great friggin idea, NOT!

Sorry, the corn grown for ethanol is not suitable for eating. It is a special type designed/grown to optimize fuel production.

That said, I would be just as happy if they did away with gasohol. Don't like it or much of anything about it.

That said, It will make a very small impact on fast price for a limited number of people. So, better than nothing, but just barely.

[Two Bills]

My lovely old banger cant use E10, but has to drink E5.
It will be drunk as a skunk on E15!:ohdear:

[larbud]

It’s all posturing for influencing the base of the”RULING PARTY” smfhol.

[MrFlorida]

I was under the impression that most cars can only handle E10, anything over that would damage your engine....can this be a way to make you buy an electric car , after your engine is destroyed ?

[Bay Kid]

THEY want you to just plug it in.

[Bay Kid]

So, let’s see if I understand. Food prices are soaring, the Russian invasion of Ukraine is disrupting the supply of wheat and other grain across many countries, and people are starving in many parts of the world. So let’s take an important source of food and use it to dilute gas and make it less efficient. Great friggin idea, NOT!

Growing corn hurts the fields. The crops need to be rotated. The world could use the food.

[metoo21]

I was under the impression that most cars can only handle E10, anything over that would damage your engine....can this be a way to make you buy an electric car , after your engine is destroyed ?

Yep. All part of the plan.

[ThirdOfFive]

Growing corn hurts the fields. The crops need to be rotated. The world could use the food.
Farmers do rotate crops. I come from a big ethanol-producing area, and farmers know how to get the most out of their soil. Usually rotate corn-soybeans.

But ethanol for fuel is an illusion anyway. America uses corn which is at best a 1-1 proposition, usually less. In other words the best you can hope for is to get as much energy OUT of the ethanol as you put into making it. Brazil is virtually petroleum-free, but their ethanol comes from sugar cane, which can be grown over much of Brazil and gives a 7-1 return, but which is limited here. We could use Sorghum, which gives back a 2-1 return, but to go that route means different farming machinery, different refining methods, etc., and could not be done overnight.

[Lindsyburnsy]

Long past time for alternate energy to run transportation. We cannot keep ourselves in this position because of oil.

[Mleeja]

I had a “flex fuel” suv. With regular unleaded I got 22 mph. With E85 the mileage went down to 17 mpg. Your actual mileage may vary. Do the math to determine if you are really saving any money using E85. Also, while you are saving money on gas with E85, you are paying more for food and other products that uses corn.

[Bill14564]

I had a “flex fuel” suv. With regular unleaded I got 22 mph. With E85 the mileage went down to 17 mpg. Your actual mileage may vary. Do the math to determine if you are really saving any money using E85. Also, while you are saving money on gas with E85, you are paying more for food and other products that uses corn.

If going all the way from E10 to E85 "costs" only 5mpg then I wonder if the difference between E10 and E15 is even noticeable.

[fishon]

E85 is a much dirtier fuel, that’s why most major US cities ban it’s use in the summer due to increased air pollution.
The greenies will not be pleased.

[Keefelane66]

If going all the way from E10 to E85 "costs" only 5mpg then I wonder if the difference between E10 and E15 is even noticeable.
Biden is temporarily allowing E15 NOT E85. “To be clear, E15 is gasoline. It's 88-octane fuel that is refined with 85 percent unleaded gas and 15 percent ethanol. E15 has been available through retail distributors since 2012 and, like the more popular E85 (unleaded gas plus between 51 and 83 percent ethanol), it can be used in all flexible-fuel vehicles.” Sep 21, 2021 MOTOTREND

[DAVES]

Most modern cars will adjust (via the computer) for E15.

The gaskets used in many cars will not stand up to E15 fuels. Gonna cause EXPENSIVE repairs.

[DAVES]

I am wondering if the use of E15 will have any effect on a vehicle's warranty????

Or a golf cart warranty, all of these state E10 gas.......

When, they started adding alcohol to gasoline it caused gaskets to fail. My car says E10.
My golf cart is E10. Gonna be some EXPENSIVE repairs.

[DAVES]

So, let’s see if I understand. Food prices are soaring, the Russian invasion of Ukraine is disrupting the supply of wheat and other grain across many countries, and people are starving in many parts of the world. So let’s take an important source of food and use it to dilute gas and make it less efficient. Great friggin idea, NOT!

I perhaps read too much, remember some and expect, no demand it makes sense.
Far as corn, I've read that 80% of the calories in America come from corn. It is not just the few ears we buy at the grocery, it is a major feed for livestock.

[Babubhat]

Other interesting facts about ethanol from Honda.

Ethanol is produced from corn, soybeans, sugar cane, or other organic material. It is blended with gasoline (10% ethanol, 90% gasoline) to produce E10.

Ethanol has 28% less energy density than gasoline, so it reduces fuel efficiency.

Ethanol is an excellent solvent, drying agent and cleanser. It will clean or dissolve some parts of, and deposits in, fuel storage and fuel delivery systems, including some fuel tank materials. The dissolved material can clog filters or pass through and leave deposits on fuel injectors, fuel pumps, fuel pressure regulators, carburetor jets, intake tracts, valves, and valve guides.

[JMintzer]

I perhaps read too much, remember some and expect, no demand it makes sense.
Far as corn, I've read that 80% of the calories in America come from corn. It is not just the few ears we buy at the grocery, it is a major feed for livestock.

High Fructose Corn Syrup is in EVERYTHING!

[Bill14564]

Biden is temporarily allowing E15 NOT E85. “To be clear, E15 is gasoline. It's 88-octane fuel that is refined with 85 percent unleaded gas and 15 percent ethanol. E15 has been available through retail distributors since 2012 and, like the more popular E85 (unleaded gas plus between 51 and 83 percent ethanol), it can be used in all flexible-fuel vehicles.” Sep 21, 2021 MOTOTREND

You may want to direct your reply to the poster who provided E85 statistics in this thread about E15 fuel.

[Mleeja]

Sorry, the corn grown for ethanol is not suitable for eating. It is a special type designed/grown to optimize fuel production.

That said, I would be just as happy if they did away with gasohol. Don't like it or much of anything about it.

That said, It will make a very small impact on fast price for a limited number of people. So, better than nothing, but just barely.

From the Nebraska Corn Board

Field corn is the classic big ears of yellow dented corn you see dried and harvested in the fall. In fact, it’s sometime called “dent corn” because of the distinctive dent that forms on the kernel as the corn dries.

Field corn has dozens of uses, but it is most commonly fed to animals or used to make renewable fuels like ethanol to power our cars and trucks. But only part of the kernel is used for ethanol (the starch), the rest of the kernel, including the protein and fat, are then used to make another popular animal feed known as distillers grains.

People don’t eat field corn directly from the field because it’s hard and certainly not sweet. Instead, field corn must go through a mill and be converted to food products and ingredients like corn syrup, corn flakes, yellow corn chips, corn starch or corn flour.

[tophcfa]

From the Nebraska Corn Board

Field corn is the classic big ears of yellow dented corn you see dried and harvested in the fall. In fact, it’s sometime called “dent corn” because of the distinctive dent that forms on the kernel as the corn dries.

Field corn has dozens of uses, but it is most commonly fed to animals or used to make renewable fuels like ethanol to power our cars and trucks. But only part of the kernel is used for ethanol (the starch), the rest of the kernel, including the protein and fat, are then used to make another popular animal feed known as distillers grains.

People don’t eat field corn directly from the field because it’s hard and certainly not sweet. Instead, field corn must go through a mill and be converted to food products and ingredients like corn syrup, corn flakes, yellow corn chips, corn starch or corn flour.

Ya, so what’s your point? If the land, efforts, and resources used to grow field corn was instead channeled onto growing sweet corn, also known as food corn, instead of growing field corn for ethanol, the gas we use would be more efficient and the world would have a much greater food supply. Farmers grow what they are incentivize to grow, not what is best for society. Stop incentivized farmers to grow corn that pollutes gas and doesn’t feed people.

[Anne Cink]

Does it really make sense to spend "$100 million" on "biofuel infrastructure" when we could spend $0.00. if Biden would take the handcuffs off the oil and natural gas producers?

[Southwest737]

Thank you Elon Musk for the best automobile we have owned. Tesla. No gas.

[Retiredsteve]

:bigbow:It seems you won't have to worry too much about it because most stations likely won't have it for quite a long time and by then it will probably be moot anyway.

E15 fuel is available only "at a few thousand pumps today," but said the U.S. will invest $100 million in biofuel infrastructure. E15 gas is currently available at about 2,300 fueling stations, according to the Department of Energy.

Even Uncle Sen. Chucky G is happy about it (read his Twitter posts) because it will make all his farmers happy and even the last guy ordered it available year round but the courts shut it down and even The Supremes refused to hear it so it can't be all bad. ;)

[Luggage]

Lower gas prices but higher food prices . And more pollution. Doesn't make any sense .

[Luggage]

I think the nomenclature is wrong here

[Eg_cruz]

So pleased to hear that E15 gasoline will be available this summer. Whoops my car and a lot of other cars won’t run on E15.
Alway amazes me just how smart our government is

[Andyb]

Political stunt, might as well pour sugar in your tank.

[bogmonster]

For sure. Notice the CAFE standards are worded ‘per gallon of gasoline’. Increase the percentages of anything other than gasoline and magically the MPG numbers go up.

As everyone watched this documentary? Very interesting.
King Corn (film - Wikipedia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Corn_(film))

I can’t imagine how much damage ethanol will do to golf carts down here with all the humidity. Up north we run ethanol free in snowmobiles and boats to keep green sludge from ruining everything.

[toeser]

Vote people, get out and vote

Voters caused this problem.

[OhioBuckeye]

Yea it might be a trick so people will be forced to buy electric cars! So start saving a lot of money.

[Cyndee@twc.com]

WE tried Ethanol before to find out it was creating a food shortage. Our corn supply was going into our gas tank.

[Bigmo93]

Besides the lower energy content in ethanol, that crap degrades engine seals. Let’s also note there is supposed to be a growing food shortage, since Ukraine’s crops won’t be planted due to war, and in the brilliance of our “leaders” the ethanol is made from corn. Another incredibly stupid decision.

[Larchap49]

Most modern cars will adjust (via the computer) for E15.

Not true. E15 will be damaging to cars and more so to golf carts and lawn equipment. Beware. Cars and trucks are specifically rated to runners E15 or they're not.

[merrymini]

Stupid is as stupid does and this is stupid.

[Indydealmaker]

Most modern cars will adjust (via the computer) for E15.

However, they do not adjust for energy value. E15 reduces mpg.

[G.R.I.T.S.]

As I understand it, your mileage will be reduced by ethanol, I am not posting ( or posing) as an expert.

It's more polluting than gasoline too, but the corn farmers will love it!

[R2keeper]

You are correct. Energy content of a unit volume of ethanol is significantly less than a unit volume of petroleum gasoline

[funnycarbob1]

The problem with E-85 or for that matter any ethanol based fuel is that for every 2% you lose 1% fuel mileage. So at 15% you lose 7.5% of fuel millage. This is because Ethanol has .5 the BTU energy. I have race-cars and still race (hence my handle Funnycarbob) and use 100% alcohol (Methanol) at a rate of 11 gallons for 1/4 mile BUT, as it does produce 5% more power over race gas it is at a sacrifice of 50% fuel mileage. But in racing it is all about Horse Power.

Also Ethanol is Hygroscopic (absorbs water from the air). It is corrosive to a fuel system. and the way cars set in The Villages in high humidity that may not be a good thing.

[Bay Kid]

Just DO NOT buy E15 gas. They will still have the crappy e10 available. If it doesn't sell it will go away. we hope.

[JeepsterGlenn]

Ethanol in gasoline has been supported by the domestic car manufacturers for 20 years (remember the yellow gas cap?).

Having this alternative will help reduce gas prices and prevent shortages of gas in the future. (Remember the long gas lines in the 1970’s?).

Glad to see we will have alternatives in the future. Much better to plan ahead than do nothing!!!

[Speedie]

Be aware
More ethanol in the mix lowers fuel mileage.

[Speedie]

Ethanol in gasoline has been supported by the domestic car manufacturers for 20 years (remember the yellow gas cap?).

Having this alternative will help reduce gas prices and prevent shortages of gas in the future. (Remember the long gas lines in the 1970’s?).

Glad to see we will have alternatives in the future. Much better to plan ahead than do nothing!!!

Great idea 💡. Open up America for drilling and we will have $2 gallon again. America sits on a sea of fuel

[Joe C.]

Ethanol, in any amount in your fuel tank WILL attract and hold moisture. You need to use a fuel additive (Stabil, Chevron, etc.) to help dissipate the moisture. This too, is an added cost. And for those who don't drive much, rust or corrosion in the fuel system is a royal PITA.

[justjim]

Vote people, get out and vote

Vote for what? Most cars do quite well on E15 and its good for American Farmers.

[TNLAKEPANDA]

Does the ballot say E15, yes or no?

No but you know who got us in this mess so you know who not to vote for.

[Dgodin]

E15 isn't a good solution for non automobile use. Motorcycle owners may find that use of E15 voids their warranty. Ethanol gas also may attack fuel lines in small engines. Ethanol resistant fuel lines may be purchased at local parts stores.

[tibbetts]

So pleased to hear that E15 gasoline will be available this summer. Whoops my car and a lot of other cars won’t run on E15.
I had an RX7 and got home after a run in real hot weather, pull into the garage, got out and could hear some thing that did not seem right. I open the hood and you could hear the gas boiling in the carburetor. I suppose that won't happen with fuel injection but I don't think any of the cars or other gas using equipment is going to like E15. I try to buy alcohol free gas for my generator. I would put it in the cars but the octane rating is to low.

[JMintzer]

Vote for what? Most cars do quite well on E15 and its good for American Farmers.

Well, considering it's not widely used, nor available, how would you know that?

[tophcfa]

Vote for what? Most cars do quite well on E15 and its good for American Farmers.

Correction, E15 will be good for engine mechanics that fix all the problems it creates.

[MartinSE]

Great idea 💡. Open up America for drilling and we will have $2 gallon again. America sits on a sea of fuel

America IS open to drilling, the oil companies have over 9,000 drilling permits they are not using.

Thanks to the pandemic and "graying of the workforce" there is a shortage of workers to bring more wells online.

And the BIG reason they are not bringing more wells online:

Over the last decade, U.S. oil production saw tremendous growth. But when prices crashed in 2014, investors lost big money. Oil prices are notoriously volatile, with the industry often suffering from boom-and-bust cycles.

But in the last few years, investors have been making clear to oil producers that they should not sink money into additional drilling in pursuit of the next oil boom. Instead, they want companies to pay back investors.

Exploration and production companies have responded by recording explosive dividend growth. According to the Morningstar U.S. Market Index, the average dividend in dollars per share has grown from $14 in 2018 to $40 in 2021, an increase of more than 180%.

"Energy companies were very afraid to ramp production because they were going to get punished by investors," said Morris, of data provider Alerian.

So, as always the decision to drilling or not is MONEY, not Biden, despite how much so many want to blame Biden.

[MartinSE]

It is estimated that approximately 1.5% of gas stations will receive E15. Yeah, that is going to destroy EVERYONES cars and golf carts.

The World is going to end, all our cars will be destroyed! OMG! (sarcasm)

All new cars in the US (new meaning made after 2001) can burn some levels of Ethanol. Long term usage of higher levels will cause some wear on engines, 3 months over summer is not long term use. This is a temporary action, it is not intended to solve the problem, it is intended to do exactly what was said, help some small number of people.

[MDLNB]

I don't see the problem :angel:
After all, we do have plenty of fuel underneath us, don't we? I guess someone intends to force us to use Chinese made batteries in our $80k priced vehicles. Everyone can afford an $80k car, right? Hey, the working stiff doesn't need to pay a mortgage. A car is much more important. Let's see, transportation to work or place to sleep? What a conundrum.

[OhioBuckeye]

I worked for Fo. Mo. Co. for 38 yrs. & I’m telling you Ethanol wear out your engine. I worked in the Dyno Lab & when tore down the engines that had Ethanol, it was totally burnt brown. We always used High test gas, every once in a while we ran regular gas when we got behind or used in special application engine like in process engines. Personally I think the govt. will start using more & more ethanol & car & trucks will wear out quicker! So the ones here that are making comments here about Ethanol know engines. It’s something we have to put up with. Most people don’t know the difference. It’s a terrible additive!

[Tvflguy]

I’m from the government and I’m here to help…

[biker1]

There is an SAE article on the effects of ethanol on engine wear.

The Effects of Alcohol Fuels and Fully Formulated Lubricants on Engine Wear (https://www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/811199/)

Essentially, ethanol does not increase engine wear but methanol, which isn't really used, does have a negative impact. I know people with over 300K miles on their engines and use 10% ethanol fuel. My own experience with 10% ethanol fuel only goes to 165K miles with no observable engine wear as determined by no noticeable oil consumption or decrease in mileage. Be that as it may, I would follow your owner's manual with regard to which fuel is recommended. For E15, you want to look for "Flex fuel" designation for your car otherwise I would stick with E10, despite what the EPA thinks (who didn't design and manufacture your car). The easiest way to impact engine wear is to change your oil at the manufacturer recommended interval, as well as perform other recommended maintenance.


I worked for Fo. Mo. Co. for 38 yrs. & I’m telling you Ethanol wear out your engine. I worked in the Dyno Lab & when tore down the engines that had Ethanol, it was totally burnt brown. We always used High test gas, every once in a while we ran regular gas when we got behind or used in special application engine like in process engines. Personally I think the govt. will start using more & more ethanol & car & trucks will wear out quicker! So the ones here that are making comments here about Ethanol know engines. It’s something we have to put up with. Most people don’t know the difference. It’s a terrible additive!

[biker1]

You can buy electric cars for less than $80K. You can also spend more than $80K. That is also true for gas cars.

I don't see the problem :angel:
After all, we do have plenty of fuel underneath us, don't we? I guess someone intends to force us to use Chinese made batteries in our $80k priced vehicles. Everyone can afford an $80k car, right? Hey, the working stiff doesn't need to pay a mortgage. A car is much more important. Let's see, transportation to work or place to sleep? What a conundrum.

[JMintzer]

America IS open to drilling, the oil companies have over 9,000 drilling permits they are not using.

Incorrect. They have over 9000 LEASES, not PERMITS...

Plus, they need permits to build the infrastructure to move the oil once it's pumped out of the ground... None of that is being fast tracked...

[Topspinmo]

Most modern cars will adjust (via the computer) for E15.


Don’t it have to be flex fuel models??

[Topspinmo]

I’m from the government and I’m here to help…


LOL:a040: yes, I got it. :)

[Bill14564]

Don’t it have to be flex fuel models??

A flex-fuel vehicle I used to have would work with E85. The "normal," nothing special car I drive today says it will work with E15 but nothing higher.

[JoeBell100]

Only seems logical that if corn is used for E15 then the cost of corn to feed the farm animals will rise and subsequently the cost of chicken, beef, pork, etc. will soon follow.

[Keefelane66]

Don’t it have to be flex fuel models??
Flex fuel is E85 totally different from E15

[Keefelane66]

Great idea 💡. Open up America for drilling and we will have $2 gallon again. America sits on a sea of fuel
No it will not petroleum is priced on a world market.

[OhioBuckeye]

You said it exactly right, thanks!

[MDLNB]

America IS open to drilling, the oil companies have over 9,000 drilling permits they are not using.

Thanks to the pandemic and "graying of the workforce" there is a shortage of workers to bring more wells online.

And the BIG reason they are not bringing more wells online:

Over the last decade, U.S. oil production saw tremendous growth. But when prices crashed in 2014, investors lost big money. Oil prices are notoriously volatile, with the industry often suffering from boom-and-bust cycles.

But in the last few years, investors have been making clear to oil producers that they should not sink money into additional drilling in pursuit of the next oil boom. Instead, they want companies to pay back investors.

Exploration and production companies have responded by recording explosive dividend growth. According to the Morningstar U.S. Market Index, the average dividend in dollars per share has grown from $14 in 2018 to $40 in 2021, an increase of more than 180%.

"Energy companies were very afraid to ramp production because they were going to get punished by investors," said Morris, of data provider Alerian.

So, as always the decision to drilling or not is MONEY, not Biden, despite how much so many want to blame Biden.


Wow, someone's been reading the propaganda. Talking about "drilling" someone should DRILL down past the propaganda to get to the truth.

[MDLNB]

I'm waiting for the government to buy me a 'lectric car. After all, the average worker and lower middle class earner cannot afford one.

[JMintzer]

Wow, someone's been reading the propaganda. Talking about "drilling" someone should DRILL down past the propaganda to get to the truth.

I tried to explain it to him, but I'm sure it didn't take...

[MartinSE]

Incorrect. They have over 9000 LEASES, not PERMITS...

Plus, they need permits to build the infrastructure to move the oil once it's pumped out of the ground... None of that is being fast tracked...

You are correct, I used the wrong term, any bad. But, it still remains that oil companies are NOT applying for permits. They investors they use to finance drilling new wells do not want them to drill new wells. It is NOT Biden's rules that are stopping them. They have the option to increase production and they do not want to.

[MartinSE]

Wow, someone's been reading the propaganda. Talking about "drilling" someone should DRILL down past the propaganda to get to the truth.

Well, the was informative and will certainly help me correct my ways

(end sarcasm).

MY propaganda came from NPR and they got their information from the Oil companies, financial companies, et al. Yeah, left wing radical media like NPR, Bloomberg et al

3 reasons why Big Oil can't simply drill to ease high gas prices : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2022/03/19/1086925726/gas-prices-oil-crude-drilling)

Where do you get YOUR propaganda?

[JMintzer]

You are correct, I used the wrong term, any bad. But, it still remains that oil companies are NOT applying for permits. They investors they use to finance drilling new wells do not want them to drill new wells. It is NOT Biden's rules that are stopping them. They have the option to increase production and they do not want to.

Since you (once again) brought politics into the discussion, I'll reply...

The current admin is not giving PERMITS to drill. They are not giving PERMITS to expand pipelines/roads, etc, to move any oil that is found.

Banks have significantly DECREASED investments in fossil fuels as of 2021...

Bloomberg - Are you a robot? (https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2021-wall-street-banks-ranked-green-projects-fossil-fuels/)

The question is WHY they are decreasing investments... I'll let YOU figure out the answer...

[kkingston57]

Have never seen e15 in Florida but have seen it in states like Colorado. All of the stations I go to only sell 89 or higher octane. Some stations do sell non ethanol gas but they are rare.

My understanding is that E15 will now be allowed to be sold year round and nothing will change in Florida(except for the wild fluctuations in price)

[kkingston57]

Yea it might be a trick so people will be forced to buy electric cars! So start saving a lot of money.

Mercedes just announced an electric car which will go 600 miles on one charge. This could be a game changer when them and other producers can get the cost down. Cost to engineer these cars are probably out of sight, but the actual cost(s) to build should be less than an ICE car. Saving a lot will be faster than most people think

[kkingston57]

Great idea 💡. Open up America for drilling and we will have $2 gallon again. America sits on a sea of fuel

Doubt Exxon Mobile etc has any incentive to sell gas at $2.00 a gallon.

[Fredman]

Mercedes just announced an electric car which will go 600 miles on one charge. This could be a game changer when them and other producers can get the cost down. Cost to engineer these cars are probably out of sight, but the actual cost(s) to build should be less than an ICE car. Saving a lot will be faster than most people think

You can buy a EV from Mercedes if you happen to have $103,000 laying around and that is the starting price.

[MartinSE]

Have never seen e15 in Florida but have seen it in states like Colorado. All of the stations I go to only sell 89 or higher octane. Some stations do sell non ethanol gas but they are rare.

My understanding is that E15 will now be allowed to be sold year round and nothing will change in Florida(except for the wild fluctuations in price)

It is estimated that less than 2% (I think the number was 1.8%) of gas stations can pump E15. So, very few people will be affected. It is one tiny thing. Rather than a silver bullet, it is one thing of many that can be done.

[JMintzer]

Doubt Exxon Mobile etc has any incentive to sell gas at $2.00 a gallon.

They make the same small amount/gallon sold, regardless of the price...

[MDLNB]

Mercedes just announced an electric car which will go 600 miles on one charge. This could be a game changer when them and other producers can get the cost down. Cost to engineer these cars are probably out of sight, but the actual cost(s) to build should be less than an ICE car. Saving a lot will be faster than most people think


As you know, batteries get weaker and weaker as they are used and recharged. Today, you might squeeze 600 miles, coasting part of the way and then tomorrow you might get 400 miles, etc. Replacing the batteries costs as much as a used car, and recycling those batteries will KEEP the price high. Battery power is NOT the answer right now. We need alternatives, such as hydrogen fuel cells or high capacity storage capacitors, etc. just for examples of possible lower cost ideas. We have plenty of oil under us to last us many years while someone continues to explore new ideas of cheaper transportation. Why FORCE us to make the change when the change is way TOO EXPENSIVE for most families?

[MartinSE]

As you know, batteries get weaker and weaker as they are used and recharged. Today, you might squeeze 600 miles, coasting part of the way and then tomorrow you might get 400 miles, etc. Replacing the batteries costs as much as a used car, and recycling those batteries will KEEP the price high. Battery power is NOT the answer right now. We need alternatives, such as hydrogen fuel cells or high capacity storage capacitors, etc. just for examples of possible lower cost ideas. We have plenty of oil under us to last us many years while someone continues to explore new ideas of cheaper transportation. Why FORCE us to make the change when the change is way TOO EXPENSIVE for most families?

I don;'t recall ANYONE being forced to buy electric. Did you get a visitor with a large gun that threatened you? (that was silly, but so is your constant use of the word FORCE. There are incentives to encourage people who are on the fence to buy electric, which will accelerate the adoption and the will help companies cover the cost of conversion.

Yes, EVs with batteries are NOT perfect right now for EVERYONE. They are perfect right now for many. Tesla is currently backordered for close to a year, because they are in fact PERFECT for many - too man y to keep up with demand.

As to your comment about battery life: Here is the warranty information on Tesla - sort of disagrees with your exaggerated commetn:

------------------
Battery and Drive Unit Limited Warranty
The Battery and Drive Unit in your vehicle are covered for a period of:

Model S Model X
8 years or 150,000 miles, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period.

Model 3 Rear-Wheel Drive
8 years or 100,000 miles, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period.

Model 3 Long Range
Model 3 Performance
Model Y Long Range
Model Y Performance
8 years or 120,000 miles, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period.

These warranties cover the repair or replacement necessary to correct defects in the materials or workmanship of any parts manufactured or supplied by Tesla, which occur under normal use.
-------------

At 8 years they are warranted to still hold 70% of their capacity. So, using your numbers, the degrading to 400 miles will not be tomorrow it will be in 8 years or 120,000 to 150,000 miles. At that point, there will be a market for those to be used as solar storage for homes of people that can't afford a new battery wall. So some of the cost of replacing will be recoverable. How much, no way to predict something 8 years in the future.

They do NOT stop working at that point, the will continue working for many more years if you don't want to replace them.

In 8 years battery technology will be vastly better than today, that includes lower cost, longer life, and faster charging.

Now, considering the cost of an EV, which you claim no one can afford (except those people waiting in line to get their backordered car).

Typical Tesla owners see ZERO $0 maintenance cost for the first 40,000 miles (if they do not abuse the car). Brakes will certainly outlast any ICE car because of the regenerative braking. I believe Tesla has considered simply giving a life time warranty on brakes because they pretty much don't wear out - and it would be good marketing.

Cost of fuel for the same period saves about $2,000 per year over a BMW.

Cost of fuel and maintenance for a typical BMW is about $20,000 for 100,000 miles. Typical total cost of ownership for a Tesla over the same period is around $4,500.

So, IF one wanted to replace the batteries after 150,000 miles. The net cost would be around ZERO - considering the TCO paid by the average BMW owner compared to the TCO of the Tesla.

So, as I said at the top of this, the EVs are NOT perfect for everyone, but they are PERFECT for many - so many Tesla can not keep up with demand. They just opened their Giga factory in Texas to help, but it will be years (decades maybe) before EVs can keep up with demand. To replace the 300 million cars on the road in the US with EVs will take decades at the most optimistic production ramp up rates. Not to mention infrastructure changes etc to support them.

I am sorry, it upsets you so much that EVs are coming. I am sorry it upsets you so much that the government is supporting conversion to EVs. The Government has always (since the beginning of the US) supported industry in many ways - subsidies (a relatively recent invention) is just one way the government attempts to guide industry to do what the people want (need?)

But, while there are many issues with EVs, your repeated comments on affordability and longevity and desirability are at best an exaggeration. They may be true for you, but NOT for everyone as you imply. If fact, I know a lot of Tesla owners, and they are just your average TV residents, and ever single one that I know is thrilled with their Teslas. Two of my children own Teslas and they gush constantly on their cars, and rave about the cost savings and fun of driving.

And to your last comment, "why force us to change now when we can continue on gas for years" (Paraphrased). No one is forcing you, on the other hand, if you are correct and we have enough oil for years, then we are in deep ****. Because if we start right now, and we are, ramping up production, it will take no less than decades to replace the ICE vehicles. So, based on your estimate, how are people going to get to work for the decades after we run out of oil? And if we ONLY have a years of oil left, I assume you know what happens to the price of a resource as it begins to run out? Yeah, you think $5.00/gal for gas is unsustainable? Just wait until the oil companies KNOW they only have 10 years of oil left in their wells - the price will skyrocket, and that will not be a good time to try to ramp up and alternative.

[Keefelane66]

I don;'t recall ANYONE being forced to buy electric. Did you get a visitor with a large gun that threatened you? (that was silly, but so is your constant use of the word FORCE. There are incentives to encourage people who are on the fence to buy electric, which will accelerate the adoption and the will help companies cover the cost of conversion.

Yes, EVs with batteries are NOT perfect right now for EVERYONE. They are perfect right now for many. Tesla is currently backordered for close to a year, because they are in fact PERFECT for many - too man y to keep up with demand.

As to your comment about battery life: Here is the warranty information on Tesla - sort of disagrees with your exaggerated commetn:

------------------
Battery and Drive Unit Limited Warranty
The Battery and Drive Unit in your vehicle are covered for a period of:

Model S Model X
8 years or 150,000 miles, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period.

Model 3 Rear-Wheel Drive
8 years or 100,000 miles, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period.

Model 3 Long Range
Model 3 Performance
Model Y Long Range
Model Y Performance
8 years or 120,000 miles, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period.

These warranties cover the repair or replacement necessary to correct defects in the materials or workmanship of any parts manufactured or supplied by Tesla, which occur under normal use.
-------------

At 8 years they are warranted to still hold 70% of their capacity. So, using your numbers, the degrading to 400 miles will not be tomorrow it will be in 8 years or 120,000 to 150,000 miles. At that point, there will be a market for those to be used as solar storage for homes of people that can't afford a new battery wall. So some of the cost of replacing will be recoverable. How much, no way to predict something 8 years in the future.

They do NOT stop working at that point, the will continue working for many more years if you don't want to replace them.

In 8 years battery technology will be vastly better than today, that includes lower cost, longer life, and faster charging.

Now, considering the cost of an EV, which you claim no one can afford (except those people waiting in line to get their backordered car).

Typical Tesla owners see ZERO $0 maintenance cost for the first 40,000 miles (if they do not abuse the car). Brakes will certainly outlast any ICE car because of the regenerative braking. I believe Tesla has considered simply giving a life time warranty on brakes because they pretty much don't wear out - and it would be good marketing.

Cost of fuel for the same period saves about $2,000 per year over a BMW.

Cost of fuel and maintenance for a typical BMW is about $20,000 for 100,000 miles. Typical total cost of ownership for a Tesla over the same period is around $4,500.

So, IF one wanted to replace the batteries after 150,000 miles. The net cost would be around ZERO - considering the TCO paid by the average BMW owner compared to the TCO of the Tesla.

So, as I said at the top of this, the EVs are NOT perfect for everyone, but they are PERFECT for many - so many Tesla can not keep up with demand. They just opened their Giga factory in Texas to help, but it will be years (decades maybe) before EVs can keep up with demand. To replace the 300 million cars on the road in the US with EVs will take decades at the most optimistic production ramp up rates. Not to mention infrastructure changes etc to support them.

I am sorry, it upsets you so much that EVs are coming. I am sorry it upsets you so much that the government is supporting conversion to EVs. The Government has always (since the beginning of the US) supported industry in many ways - subsidies (a relatively recent invention) is just one way the government attempts to guide industry to do what the people want (need?)

But, while there are many issues with EVs, your repeated comments on affordability and longevity and desirability are at best an exaggeration. They may be true for you, but NOT for everyone as you imply. If fact, I know a lot of Tesla owners, and they are just your average TV residents, and ever single one that I know is thrilled with their Teslas. Two of my children own Teslas and they gush constantly on their cars, and rave about the cost savings and fun of driving.

And to your last comment, "why force us to change now when we can continue on gas for years" (Paraphrased). No one is forcing you, on the other hand, if you are correct and we have enough oil for years, then we are in deep ****. Because if we start right now, and we are, ramping up production, it will take no less than decades to replace the ICE vehicles. So, based on your estimate, how are people going to get to work for the decades after we run out of oil? And if we ONLY have a years of oil left, I assume you know what happens to the price of a resource as it begins to run out? Yeah, you think $5.00/gal for gas is unsustainable? Just wait until the oil companies KNOW they only have 10 years of oil left in their wells - the price will skyrocket, and that will not be a good time to try to ramp up and alternative.
Thanks for your information, as we come to this site there is always A wealth of misinformation and personal opinions than facts.
A good documentary on EV “Who Killed the Electric Car” available on YouTube, Amazon and Google Video.

[MartinSE]

Thanks for your information, as we come to this site there is always A wealth of misinformation and personal opinions than facts.
A good documentary on EV “Who Killed the Electric Car” available on YouTube, Amazon and Google Video.

Are you saying my information was misinformation? If so, you point out what so I can find out why I am misinformed.

There are a lot of people that have shorted Tesla over the years, many of those spent a significant amount of money spreading false information in an attempt to drive the share price down. That is why my post contained information from Tesla owners, from Tesla Warranty, and from numerous sites with information about TCO for ICE vehicles.

If you are claiming I am wrong, drive by posts don't lead to credibility, If you are agreeing with me, I apologize for over reacting.

[Keefelane66]

Are you saying my information was misinformation? If so, you point out what so I can find out why I am misinformed.

There are a lot of people that have shorted Tesla over the years, many of those spent a significant amount of money spreading false information in an attempt to drive the share price down. That is why my post contained information from Tesla owners, from Tesla Warranty, and from numerous sites with information about TCO for ICE vehicles.

If you are claiming I am wrong, drive by posts don't lead to credibility, If you are agreeing with me, I apologize for over reacting.
I thanked you for the information.
Could have phrased it better not attacking you.

[MartinSE]

I thanked you for the information.
Could have phrased it better not attacking you.

My bad, thank you. I am a bit thin skinned. I really need to work on that. I appreciate your civil reply.

[Keefelane66]

Bloomberg News 4-14-2022
Wind turbines in the U.S. produced more electricity than coal or nuclear plants on March 29 for the first time on record, the U.S. Energy Information Administration said Thursday. That made wind the second-biggest source of electricity that day, behind only natural gas and narrowly ahead of nuclear.

[MartinSE]

Bloomberg News 4-14-2022
Wind turbines in the U.S. produced more electricity than coal or nuclear plants on March 29 for the first time on record, the U.S. Energy Information Administration said Thursday. That made wind the second-biggest source of electricity that day, behind only natural gas and narrowly ahead of nuclear.


Shhh... now you have done it.

Here come the "birds killed" comments.

Ignoring domestic cats kill over 2.4 billion birds a year and wind turbines kill around 250,000. But, you know Wind turbines are evil!

[Keefelane66]

Shhh... now you have done it.

Here come the "birds killed" comments.

Ignoring domestic cats kill over 2.4 billion birds a year and wind turbines kill around 250,000. But, you know Wind turbines are evil!
Since post started out with fuel additive going from E10 to E15. Then morphed to E85 going to EV technology, batteries, thought I’d bring up Wind Turbines. My lanai sliders take out maybe 15 to 20 birds a year!

[MartinSE]

Since post started out with fuel additive going from E10 to E15. Then morphed to E85 going to EV technology, batteries, thought I’d bring up Wind Turbines. My lanai sliders take out maybe 15 to 20 birds a year!

yes, keeping with the fine tradition of TOTV, topic drift is mandatory. LOL!

[JMintzer]

I don;'t recall ANYONE being forced to buy electric. Did you get a visitor with a large gun that threatened you? (that was silly, but so is your constant use of the word FORCE. There are incentives to encourage people who are on the fence to buy electric, which will accelerate the adoption and the will help companies cover the cost of conversion. .

Forcing someone to choose between paying $4.00+ for gas or putting food on the table is a metaphorical gun to some people's head...

I would think someone as empathetic as you would realize that...

[JMintzer]

Shhh... now you have done it.

Here come the "birds killed" comments.

Ignoring domestic cats kill over 2.4 billion birds a year and wind turbines kill around 250,000. But, you know Wind turbines are evil!

Yes, house cats kill environmentally protected bird all the time... Wait, what?

[MartinSE]

Forcing someone to choose between paying $4.00+ for gas or putting food on the table is a metaphorical gun to some people's head...

I would think someone as empathetic as you would realize that...

Okay, I will bite, how are people being forced to choose between gas and food and who is doing the forcing?

[Speedie]

Thank you Elon Musk for the best automobile we have owned. Tesla. No gas.

Keeping it charged from a coal fired generating plant

[MartinSE]

Keeping it charged from a coal fired generating plant

More power is generated by wind turbines today than by coal.

[MorTech]

Okay, I will bite, how are people being forced to choose between gas and food and who is doing the forcing?

To put ethanol in gasoline they destroy corn food crops. The State uses death threats (aka, gun-n-jail backed "Laws") to force ethanol into gasoline.

[JMintzer]

Okay, I will bite, how are people being forced to choose between gas and food and who is doing the forcing?

Not everyone is as financially fortunate as you or I...

Current sky high inflation and the significant increase in gas prices (over that last 1+ year) are the main culprit...

[JMintzer]

More power is generated by wind turbines today than by coal.

That happened (supposedly) for only one day...

[tophcfa]

Since post started out with fuel additive going from E10 to E15. Then morphed to E85 going to EV technology, batteries, thought I’d bring up Wind Turbines. My lanai sliders take out maybe 15 to 20 birds a year!

Try putting some of these stickers on your lanai sliders. They are readily available from Amazon and will significantly reduce the number of birds flying into the glass.

[Keefelane66]

To put ethanol in gasoline they destroy corn food crops. The State uses death threats (aka, gun-n-jail backed "Laws") to force ethanol into gasoline.
And, grain crops to make liquor priorities. Some do consider alcohol food.

[MartinSE]

Not everyone is as financially fortunate as you or I...

Current sky high inflation and the significant increase in gas prices (over that last 1+ year) are the main culprit...

This is very true. I completely agree and inflation historically lags the cause by 2 to 5 years. According to some experts, the current inflation cycle (they usually come every 15 years or so) has been "overdue" for about 2 or more years. So, it could possibly have been initiated by Obama policies or Trump policies. It is highly unlikely that it was caused by Biden's policies since those started just 1 1/2 years ago. However, I did say highly unlikely. With the pandemic creating economic chaos around the world (including here) it is hard to apply traditional economic models to the current situation.

And this is an ECONOMIC reply, not a political post. I did not blame or exonerate anyone, simply pointing out that cause and effect don't happen overnight. Inflation happens, it is a thing with capitalism/socialism/or whichever we have.

[MartinSE]

Try putting some of these stickers on your lanai sliders. They are readily available from Amazon and will significantly reduce the number of birds flying into the glass.

Not just birds, but people and dogs frequently slam into sliding glass doors, they are really dangerous. And decorative sticks help a lot.

[MartinSE]

That happened (supposedly) for only one day...

It happened, the change is upon us. With another large offshore wind turbine farm just licensed, in a few years, we will see more and more. Coal is on the way out. It has no future - short of economic collapse killing any innovative new solutions.

Wind Market Reports: 2021 Edition | Department of Energy (https://www.energy.gov/eere/wind/wind-market-reports-2021-edition)

Sadly, in today's world everything is "supposedly", since there seems to be more misinformation than information available.

[JMintzer]

This is very true. I completely agree and inflation historically lags the cause by 2 to 5 years. According to some experts, the current inflation cycle (they usually come every 15 years or so) has been "overdue" for about 2 or more years. So, it could possibly have been initiated by Obama policies or Trump policies. It is highly unlikely that it was caused by Biden's policies since those started just 1 1/2 years ago. However, I did say highly unlikely. With the pandemic creating economic chaos around the world (including here) it is hard to apply traditional economic models to the current situation.

And this is an ECONOMIC reply, not a political post. I did not blame or exonerate anyone, simply pointing out that cause and effect don't happen overnight. Inflation happens, it is a thing with capitalism/socialism/or whichever we have.

"Highly unlikely"....

:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[JMintzer]

It happened, the change is upon us. With another large offshore wind turbine farm just licensed, in a few years, we will see more and more. Coal is on the way out. It has no future - short of economic collapse killing any innovative new solutions.

Wind Market Reports: 2021 Edition | Department of Energy (https://www.energy.gov/eere/wind/wind-market-reports-2021-edition)

Sadly, in today's world everything is "supposedly", since there seems to be more misinformation than information available.

China continues to add coal-fired power plants within its borders, bringing forty-one gigawatts of coal power on line in 2020 alone, which accounted for seventy-five percent of the global total.

[MartinSE]

China continues to add coal-fired power plants within its borders, bringing forty-one gigawatts of coal power online in 2020 alone, which accounted for seventy-five percent of the global total.

You are right, but another way to look at China's electrical production is their coal-produced electrical generation as a percentage of generation has remained flat since the 2010-2015 era while all other forms have increased.

Chinese coal-fired electricity generation expected to flatten as mix shifts to renewables - Today in Energy - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) (https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=33092)

[MartinSE]

Yes, house cats kill environmentally protected bird all the time... Wait, what?

Ah, someone inserted "protected"

[MartinSE]

You can buy a EV from Mercedes if you happen to have $103,000 laying around and that is the starting price.

You can buy an EV from Atomic Car if you have $16K sitting around and save that much within a couple of years in maintenance and fuel if you simply use it to do all your local driving and park your Excursion SUV saving it for long-distance trips.

The TOC for the average lower to middle-class worker driving to work, shopping, entertainment for 99% of their use case will certainly see a significant reduction in transportation costs on the budget compared to say a Toyota Yaris or other "inexpensive" ICE vehicle.

That is ONE there are literally hundreds of new products coming online this year

[JMintzer]

You are right, but another way to look at China's electrical production is their coal-produced electrical generation as a percentage of generation has remained flat since the 2010-2015 era while all other forms have increased.

Chinese coal-fired electricity generation expected to flatten as mix shifts to renewables - Today in Energy - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) (https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=33092)

Yet, you said this: "Coal is on the way out. It has no future..."

It is patently untrue...

Until we finally embrace the newer MUCH safer Nuclear technology, coal ain't going nowhere...

[JMintzer]

Ah, someone inserted "protected"

That is because that is what the complaint about wind turbines is all about.

It is not (and never was) about killing flying rats (pigeons) that cats seem to like...

[Fredman]

You can buy an EV from Atomic Car if you have $16K sitting around and save that much within a couple of years in maintenance and fuel if you simply use it to do all your local driving and park your Excursion SUV saving it for long-distance trips.

The TOC for the average lower to middle-class worker driving to work, shopping, entertainment for 99% of their use case will certainly see a significant reduction in transportation costs on the budget compared to say a Toyota Yaris or other "inexpensive" ICE vehicle.

That is ONE there are literally hundreds of new products coming online this year

I consider those thing SV’s. Suicide Vehicles. One wreck and you are toast.

[JMintzer]

You can buy an EV from Atomic Car if you have $16K sitting around and save that much within a couple of years in maintenance and fuel if you simply use it to do all your local driving and park your Excursion SUV saving it for long-distance trips.

The TOC for the average lower to middle-class worker driving to work, shopping, entertainment for 99% of their use case will certainly see a significant reduction in transportation costs on the budget compared to say a Toyota Yaris or other "inexpensive" ICE vehicle.

That is ONE there are literally hundreds of new products coming online this year

The people struggling with inflation and gas prices have neither the $103K, nor the $16K "laying around" to buy anything...

And like I've already pointed out, the Atomic Car only has VERY limited use for those with families...

[MartinSE]

Yet, you said this: "Coal is on the way out. It has no future..."

It is patently untrue...

Until we finally embrace the newer MUCH safer Nuclear technology, coal ain't going nowhere...

Well, coal is on the way out is not patently untrue. But, it currently makes up about 85% of our generation capacity being retired.

While my post may be exaggerated or at least imply "any day now". It is a fact that coal generation is being retired.

Coal will account for 85% of U.S. electric generating capacity retirements in 2022 - Today in Energy - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) (https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=50838)

[MartinSE]

The people struggling with inflation and gas prices have neither the $103K, nor the $16K "laying around" to buy anything...

And like I've already pointed out, the Atomic Car only has VERY limited use for those with families...

Okay, so we should do nothing, since that situation is not ever going to change? And for those that can afford a 20K car (financed) they should not have the option? Inflation comes and goes poverty doesn't. It should, it is embarrassing that the richest country on the earth has so many poor.

I guess I don't understand the point of your post.

[JMintzer]

Okay, so we should do nothing, since that situation is not ever going to change? And for those that can afford a 20K car (financed) they should not have the option? Inflation comes and goes poverty doesn't. It should, it is embarrassing that the richest country on the earth has so many poor.

I guess I don't understand the point of your post.

Ah, the old "either we do what I want or do nothing" argument...

The answer is simple. Stop making policies that drive up the price of fossil fuels AND continue to develop new technologies, AND invest in new Nuclear plants...