The Villages doing things differently

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

South of 44 I'm seeing things being done that I haven't seen in other parts of The Villages.

In Fenney, of course, we have the Fenney Grill which is similar to a country club but with no championship golf course. I originally though that that was because Fenney is so isolated. I don't know of any other country club that is adjacent to executive golf course.

Then they built Southern Oaks championship golf course with no country club attached.

They built Sawgrass across the street, which by the way has no where near the parking spaces that are going to be required, that has McGrady's Pub which I'm thinking that they hope will serve as a country club.

When I first inquired as to what Sawgrass was going to be like, I was told with great enthusiasm that its going to be smaller than other town squares that that was a big benefit.

The Ezell rec center shares the parking area with Sawgrass. I don't think that I've ever seen that in The Villages before.

They also built the pro shop and cart barn across the street from the golf course which I find very strange.

Now they're building a new rec center with a restaurant next to it on Meggison Road just north of St John's. Again, it appears to me to have very limited parking.

There are great walking and bicycling paths along Marsh Bend Road and Fenney Road but the golf carts are in a lane on the streets on these busy roads. I would have thought that they would have learn from what exists on Morse north of 466.

It seems that over the years The Villages has learned from previous builds and made subsequent areas better. Although I see a lot of things that are better south of 44 there are some things that puzzle me.

[shut the front door]

Apparently, they don't want to spend their money on adequate parking. Look at the Fenney pitch and putt debacle. I feel bad for the people who bought nearby homes not knowing that their street would become a parking lot.

[Topspinmo]

When they sell out to district it will be their problem….

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

When they sell out to district it will be their problem….

That is always the intention. To do what they do - for good or for bad. And once they're done doing it, the newly formed CDD gets to bear the burden of the results (for good or for bad).

[vintageogauge]

Apparently, they don't want to spend their money on adequate parking. Look at the Fenney pitch and putt debacle. I feel bad for the people who bought nearby homes not knowing that their street would become a parking lot.

The pitch and putt is in Marsh Bend. I think you are referring to the Putt and Play which is in Fenney.

[shut the front door]

The pitch and putt is in Marsh Bend. I think you are referring to the Putt and Play which is in Fenney.

Yes. The one with no parking available.

[Marathon Man]

Yea yea yea. Another post about how bad it is in the south.

We used to live in the Sumter Landing area. Now we live in the Southern Oaks area. We love the 'new formula' as I call it.

Those that find it strange or are puzzled, well, I guess you can be glad that you don't live here. But let me address a few of your points:

The country club at a champ course is really just a restaurant. So, it can be anywhere. Like across the street.

Separating walkers from golf carts is indeed an improvement. How many threads exist on TOTV about the problems of sharing the MMP's?

A parking shortage remains to be seen, doesn't it? I mean, since it is not open yet.

A restaurant was built where there is no championship golf course seems strange? Really?

[Bogie Shooter]

Yea yea yea. Another post about how bad it is in the south.

We used to live in the Sumter Landing area. Now we live in the Southern Oaks area. We love the 'new formula' as I call it.

Those that find it strange or are puzzled, well, I guess you can be glad that you don't live here. But let me address a few of your points:

The country club at a champ course is really just a restaurant. So, it can be anywhere. Like across the street.

Separating walkers from golf carts is indeed an improvement. How many threads exist on TOTV about the problems of sharing the MMP's?

A parking shortage remains to be seen, doesn't it? I mean, since it is not open yet.

A restaurant was built where there is no championship golf course seems strange? Really?

Thanks for your reply from someone who actually lives in the area.
Those that don’t should just keep quiet.

[ureout]

I agree with the OP .. driving a golf cart right next to cars and trucks is just an accident waiting to happen.. I refuse to drive my golf cart on the N part of morse blvd. when I golf at hacienda I always cut through to el-camino real

[Bogie Shooter]

I agree with the OP .. driving a golf cart right next to cars and trucks is just an accident waiting to happen.. I refuse to drive my golf cart on the N part of morse blvd. when I golf at hacienda I always cut through to el-camino real

I have been here 20 years and never heard of an accident because of what you say. However, poor turns, not signaling, yes.
BTW I read the other news site.

[shut the front door]

Yea yea yea. Another post about how bad it is in the south.

We used to live in the Sumter Landing area. Now we live in the Southern Oaks area. We love the 'new formula' as I call it.

Those that find it strange or are puzzled, well, I guess you can be glad that you don't live here. But let me address a few of your points:

The country club at a champ course is really just a restaurant. So, it can be anywhere. Like across the street.

Separating walkers from golf carts is indeed an improvement. How many threads exist on TOTV about the problems of sharing the MMP's?

A parking shortage remains to be seen, doesn't it? I mean, since it is not open yet.

A restaurant was built where there is no championship golf course seems strange? Really?

The parking shortage does not remain to be seen. It's been seen for 3 years now and has been complained about by the residents who can't get down their streets because it has turned in to a parking lot. Also complained about by the people who had to walk for blocks to get there.

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/members/shut-the-front-door-115064/albums/pics/9044-headinsand.png

[Altavia]

Yea yea yea. Another post about how bad it is in the south.

We used to live in the Sumter Landing area. Now we live in the Southern Oaks area. We love the 'new formula' as I call it.

Those that find it strange or are puzzled, well, I guess you can be glad that you don't live here. But let me address a few of your points:

The country club at a champ course is really just a restaurant. So, it can be anywhere. Like across the street.

Separating walkers from golf carts is indeed an improvement. How many threads exist on TOTV about the problems of sharing the MMP's?

A parking shortage remains to be seen, doesn't it? I mean, since it is not open yet.

A restaurant was built where there is no championship golf course seems strange? Really?

I love how they are experimenting/innovating in each new area.

There's clearly a culture of continueous improvement and adapting to the current market behind the planning.

[dewilson58]

"The Villages doing things differently"

Yep, quit "selling" mobile homes 40 years ago.

:ohdear::ohdear::ohdear:

[JoMar]

The parking shortage does not remain to be seen. It's been seen for 3 years now and has been complained about by the residents who can't get down their streets because it has turned in to a parking lot. Also complained about by the people who had to walk for blocks to get there.

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/members/shut-the-front-door-115064/albums/pics/9044-headinsand.png

Apples and oranges....you are talking about a different area.

[BlackHarley]

Convenience of the Villagers seems to have gone 'out the window'. South of 44 it's obvious to pack as many homes into an area means more profit. Who cares if the streets are too narrow to support traffic? Not enough parking you state? Parking spaces don't produce revenue. Just my 2 cents.

[crash]

Thanks for your reply from someone who actually lives in the area.
Those that don’t should just keep quiet.

The OP lives in the Villages and has for years.

[Worldseries27]

south of 44 i'm seeing things being done that i haven't seen in other parts of the villages.

In fenney, of course, we have the fenney grill which is similar to a country club but with no championship golf course. I originally though that that was because fenney is so isolated. I don't know of any other country club that is adjacent to executive golf course.

Then they built southern oaks championship golf course with no country club attached.

They built sawgrass across the street, which by the way has no where near the parking spaces that are going to be required, that has mcgrady's pub which i'm thinking that they hope will serve as a country club.

When i first inquired as to what sawgrass was going to be like, i was told with great enthusiasm that its going to be smaller than other town squares that that was a big benefit.

The ezell rec center shares the parking area with sawgrass. I don't think that i've ever seen that in the villages before.

They also built the pro shop and cart barn across the street from the golf course which i find very strange.

Now they're building a new rec center with a restaurant next to it on meggison road just north of st john's. Again, it appears to me to have very limited parking.

There are great walking and bicycling paths along marsh bend road and fenney road but the golf carts are in a lane on the streets on these busy roads. I would have thought that they would have learn from what exists on morse north of 466.

It seems that over the years the villages has learned from previous builds and made subsequent areas better. Although i see a lot of things that are better south of 44 there are some things that puzzle me.
full disclosure. I live in st catherine's and there have been a few details overlooked.
1. Sawgrass grove will have an indoor marketplace with several restaurants.
2. It is a regional recreation center.
3. It has clifton grove putting course within it
4. The square has a tapestry like covering over it
5. It will be connected to the new south villages by the bexley trail bridge for cars and carts
6. The connection to the florida turnpike is minutes away.
There are many videos
on youtube that can highlight these and other highlights
7. There have been hundreds of driveway parties.

[dewilson58]

The OP lives in the Villages and has for years.

:ohdear::ohdear::ohdear:

Bogie knows that, thanks for the post anyway.

[GmaLisaG]

Couldn't not have said it all any better 🙄

[ureout]

I have been here 20 years and never heard of an accident because of what you say. However, poor turns, not signaling, yes.
BTW I read the other news site.


https://www.**************.com/2021/02/17/golf-cart-driver-dies-after-crash-on-morse-boulevard/

so if you read the other site why would you post you never heard of an accident on morse?? especially with this 1 causing a death... cars and trucks routinely drive well over the posted speed limit.. if morse had a separate path for golf carts traffic like the rest of TV's this would never have happened.. BTW have you ever driven your golf cart on that section of road

[Mollusk29]

fConvenience of the Villagers seems to have gone 'out the window'. South of 44 it's obvious to pack as many homes into an area means more profit. Who cares if the streets are too narrow to support traffic? Not enough parking you state? Parking spaces don't produce revenue. Just my 2 cents.
Yes, TV goal is to produce "4000 homes" as quickly as possible, the real estate agent informed me. I inquired about a home modified with wider entryways for a walker/wheelchair and grab bars for the bathroom. No can do on smaller homes, I was told, but I could buy lot for a designer home(more pricey of course) and make some adjustments. Homes built for aging boomers, HAH!

[Bogie Shooter]

https://www.**************.com/2021/02/17/golf-cart-driver-dies-after-crash-on-morse-boulevard/

so if you read the other site why would you post you never heard of an accident on morse?? especially with this 1 causing a death... cars and trucks routinely drive well over the posted speed limit.. if morse had a separate path for golf carts traffic like the rest of TV's this would never have happened.. BTW have you ever driven your golf cart on that section of road

Your link does not work so, was unable to learn the details of this tragic death.
The accidents on Morse cannot all be attributed to the lack of a cart path but more so to driver error. I cannot back this up with any statistics anymore that you saying "if Morse had a separate path for golf carts traffic like the rest of TV's this would never have happened".
For your information, yes, I have driven my cart on Morse from CR466 to US 441.....many times.

[rustyp]

South of 44 I'm seeing things being done that I haven't seen in other parts of The Villages.

In Fenney, of course, we have the Fenney Grill which is similar to a country club but with no championship golf course. I originally though that that was because Fenney is so isolated. I don't know of any other country club that is adjacent to executive golf course.

Then they built Southern Oaks championship golf course with no country club attached.

They built Sawgrass across the street, which by the way has no where near the parking spaces that are going to be required, that has McGrady's Pub which I'm thinking that they hope will serve as a country club.

When I first inquired as to what Sawgrass was going to be like, I was told with great enthusiasm that its going to be smaller than other town squares that that was a big benefit.

The Ezell rec center shares the parking area with Sawgrass. I don't think that I've ever seen that in The Villages before.

They also built the pro shop and cart barn across the street from the golf course which I find very strange.

Now they're building a new rec center with a restaurant next to it on Meggison Road just north of St John's. Again, it appears to me to have very limited parking.

There are great walking and bicycling paths along Marsh Bend Road and Fenney Road but the golf carts are in a lane on the streets on these busy roads. I would have thought that they would have learn from what exists on Morse north of 466.

It seems that over the years The Villages has learned from previous builds and made subsequent areas better. Although I see a lot of things that are better south of 44 there are some things that puzzle me.



Orange Blossom Championship and Hill Top Executive

[MSGirl]

Yea yea yea. Another post about how bad it is in the south.

We used to live in the Sumter Landing area. Now we live in the Southern Oaks area. We love the 'new formula' as I call it.

Those that find it strange or are puzzled, well, I guess you can be glad that you don't live here. But let me address a few of your points:

The country club at a champ course is really just a restaurant. So, it can be anywhere. Like across the street.

Separating walkers from golf carts is indeed an improvement. How many threads exist on TOTV about the problems of sharing the MMP's?

A parking shortage remains to be seen, doesn't it? I mean, since it is not open yet.

A restaurant was built where there is no championship golf course seems strange? Really?
I wonder why country club restaurants north of 44, like Belle Glade and Bonifay are filled with golfers from south of 44 who want to golf and have a social large enough and close to where they just golfed? Where they can actually make a reservation and have a table ready when they finish their round if they are happy the way things are where they live south of 44…just curious

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Yea yea yea. Another post about how bad it is in the south.

We used to live in the Sumter Landing area. Now we live in the Southern Oaks area. We love the 'new formula' as I call it.

Those that find it strange or are puzzled, well, I guess you can be glad that you don't live here. But let me address a few of your points:

The country club at a champ course is really just a restaurant. So, it can be anywhere. Like across the street.

Separating walkers from golf carts is indeed an improvement. How many threads exist on TOTV about the problems of sharing the MMP's?

A parking shortage remains to be seen, doesn't it? I mean, since it is not open yet.

A restaurant was built where there is no championship golf course seems strange? Really?

I actually do live south of 44 in Marsh Bend.

I love it down here. I wasn't complaining as much as pointing out that they seem to have a different formula.

We're seeing things as they are new but we don't know what the long term plans are. There may be other projects that come along that will alleviate some of the issues that I'm pointing out.

And yes, a country club type restaurant without a championship golf course is unusual. Look around. North of 44, restaurants seem to be in three different areas. In the town squares, in the plazas like Magnolia or country clubs (and yes, I know that they are simply restaurants open to the public, the same as I know that the so called championship golf courses are simply public golf courses). Where, other than Fenney or on Meggison have you seen a restaurant next to rec center with no other retail around it? Where else have you seen a rec center adjacent to a town square?

As I said, they have a different formula down here. I live north of 44 for nine years and this will probably take me a little getting used to. For those who haven't lived in other parts of The Villages, it's all they know. Maybe I'll find it better. I'll wait and see.

In the meantime, there's nothing wrong with noticing and pointing out that TV has seem to be going in a different direction.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I wonder why country club restaurants north of 44, like Belle Glade and Bonifay are filled with golfers from south of 44 who want to golf and have a social large enough and close to where they just golfed? Where they can actually make a reservation and have a table ready when they finish their round if they are happy the way things are where they live south of 44…just curious

Right now, hopefully, that will be McGrady's Pub across from Southern Oaks Golf Course.

They also have several more golf courses in the works down here. Hopefully they'll have some kind of restaurant nearby.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Orange Blossom Championship and Hill Top Executive

You're right. Hilltop is next to OBGCC. I missed that one. But the restaurant is also next to a championship golf course like every other "country club" in The Villages.

[EviesGP]

Good points, Dr B.
I add to that, some of the MMPs down there seem a bit perilous, especially when they pass around waterways and woods, with little to no lighting or curbing?! And I'm a fairly young guy with good eyesight.
I do think the parking is going to be quite a challenge in that new area, as is the restaurant issue. Yes, some/many non-golfers dine at CC restaurants, but now they're going to compete with all the people attending the square/market facilities. And it won't be fine dining, but pub-style food(which is also different).
Finally, the location is different, as now golfers heading to the SO course, will need to compete with adjacent square traffic, then proceed across an active street, to tee off.
Per your comment, I'm not bashing anything yet(just pointing out), and I'll wait to see how it all works out.

[Bilyclub]

Convenience of the Villagers seems to have gone 'out the window'. South of 44 it's obvious to pack as many homes into an area means more profit. Who cares if the streets are too narrow to support traffic? Not enough parking you state? Parking spaces don't produce revenue. Just my 2 cents.

They do produce revenue if the occupants of the vehicle are going to your restaurant or championship golf course, which you own.

[spd2918]

I live south of 44 and I love it.

The big changes at the new "square" are due to the national trend of retail closings. Witness the empty spaces at Brownwood. People are using Amazon to save money. Why build for retail space when none are needed?

I agree there appears to be a lack of parking at the new facility. Time will tell.

[vintageogauge]

The parking shortage does not remain to be seen. It's been seen for 3 years now and has been complained about by the residents who can't get down their streets because it has turned in to a parking lot. Also complained about by the people who had to walk for blocks to get there.

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/members/shut-the-front-door-115064/albums/pics/9044-headinsand.png

The only place that has a parking problem is at the Putt and Play on Fenney Way which the OP never mentioned. Other than at that one amenity it remains to be seen if there will be problems in the areas the OP is talking about.

[JMintzer]

I live south of 44 and I love it.

The big changes at the new "square" are due to the national trend of retail closings. Witness the empty spaces at Brownwood. People are using Amazon to save money. Why build for retail space when none are needed?

I agree there appears to be a lack of parking at the new facility. Time will tell.

What "empty spaces" at Brownwood? 1 or 2, storefronts? Van Heusen (which went out everywhere) is the only one I saw last time I was there...

[ureout]

Your link does not work so, was unable to learn the details of this tragic death.
The accidents on Morse cannot all be attributed to the lack of a cart path but more so to driver error. I cannot back this up with any statistics anymore that you saying "if Morse had a separate path for golf carts traffic like the rest of TV's this would never have happened".
For your information, yes, I have driven my cart on Morse from CR466 to US 441.....many times.

try this link.. if it doesn't work google golf cart accident on morse blvd

Man, 74, dies in golf cart crash in The Villages (https://www.clickorlando.com/traffic/2021/02/17/fatal-golf-cart-crash/)

I agree with driver error, that usually is the cause of most accidents.. what I'm saying is that I would much rather have driver error with another golf cart on a separate golf cart path than with a car or truck driving next to me on morse..

[Stu from NYC]

What "empty spaces" at Brownwood? 1 or 2, storefronts? Van Heusen (which went out everywhere) is the only one I saw last time I was there...

Walk away from the square and quite a few empty storefronts

[JMintzer]

Walk away from the square and quite a few empty storefronts

I did. 1 or 2 are where the medical/business offices are (past the Design Center) and there's one by Cody's...

[Topspinmo]

"The Villages doing things differently"

Yep, quit "selling" mobile homes 40 years ago.

:ohdear::ohdear::ohdear:

And adding more houses in areas sold out to Districts. :clap2:

[Worldseries27]

full disclosure. I live in st catherine's and there have been a few details overlooked.
1. Sawgrass grove will have an indoor marketplace with several restaurants.
2. It is a regional recreation center.
3. It has clifton grove putting course within it
4. The square has a tapestry like covering over it
5. It will be connected to the new south villages by the bexley trail bridge for cars and carts
6. The connection to the florida turnpike is minutes away.
There are many videos
on youtube that can highlight these and other highlights
7. There have been hundreds of driveway parties.
addendum

[DonH57]

South of 44 I'm seeing things being done that I haven't seen in other parts of The Villages.

In Fenney, of course, we have the Fenney Grill which is similar to a country club but with no championship golf course. I originally though that that was because Fenney is so isolated. I don't know of any other country club that is adjacent to executive golf course.

Then they built Southern Oaks championship golf course with no country club attached.

They built Sawgrass across the street, which by the way has no where near the parking spaces that are going to be required, that has McGrady's Pub which I'm thinking that they hope will serve as a country club.

When I first inquired as to what Sawgrass was going to be like, I was told with great enthusiasm that its going to be smaller than other town squares that that was a big benefit.

The Ezell rec center shares the parking area with Sawgrass. I don't think that I've ever seen that in The Villages before.

They also built the pro shop and cart barn across the street from the golf course which I find very strange.

Now they're building a new rec center with a restaurant next to it on Meggison Road just north of St John's. Again, it appears to me to have very limited parking.

There are great walking and bicycling paths along Marsh Bend Road and Fenney Road but the golf carts are in a lane on the streets on these busy roads. I would have thought that they would have learn from what exists on Morse north of 466.

It seems that over the years The Villages has learned from previous builds and made subsequent areas better. Although I see a lot of things that are better south of 44 there are some things that puzzle me.

I think every new generation of the Morse's want to put their signature on their design plans as they continue to build out.

[Stu from NYC]

I think every new generation of the Morse's want to put their signature on their design plans as they continue to build out.

Very true and each generation has bigger dollar signs in front of them

[Carpe Diem]

4 Championship courses with country clubs in Spanish Springs section.
3 Championship courses at Sumter.
3 Championship courses at Brownwood.
Plans for south of Rte 44?

Wide boulevards on Morse / Buena Vista lined by courses and with separate golf cart paths provides a picturesque expansive feel to the packed neighborhoods . . . and safer drive. (They learned to build broad boulevards after they observed Morse in the north section. Now they revert back?)
The landscaping on the boulevards down to Brownwood is amazing. Fountains and other features appear at key intersections.

Savannah Center & The Sharon have no comparable in the south. I guess theatres, in general, are a thing of the past. (And I remember all the hoopla surrounding the barnstorm theatre.)

No indoor gymnasium in the entire Villages yet??? How about another bowling alley? A softball batting cage? Another driving range? (And why driving ranges but no batting cages. Exactly the same concept.)

The squares even seem to shrink in size as you head south. Sawgrass will never have the nighttime atmosphere that Spanish Springs or Sumter Landing have. Not even close.

Is there a gas station south of Rte 44 south yet? If not, that would have never been the case while Gary was alive.

Not sure why Grace Tabernacle (?) church is not golf cart accessible. Not sure why churches were shut out of The Villages after Rte 466. Just houses and rec centers. I'm sure Gary insisted on setting aside land for churches in the early days. But now, it's easy to come up with an excuse why not to. Clearly, there's no shortage of land. We're only halfway done.

Are there premier homes south of Rte 44? You know, to encourage quality doctors and other professionals to move into the area.

That's what I question when I head south. There are nice things there as well. Marshbend/Everglades is pretty awesome.

My impression is that Gary went the extra mile to create Sumter Lake with an incredibly expensive boardwalk and lighthouse. There's even a manmade river with waterfalls, bridges, and locks there. And a playground for grandkids.

There are fountains at Spanish Spring, clay courts and an showy entry to Glenview. There was Katie Bells. IMO Hacienda Country club was a special building with a pool that served drinks. The historic section has a beautiful park lake near its entrance. Will there ever be another Arnold Palmer / Nancy Lopez-like golf course built? Anything comparable to the Polo grounds? Or even a cart trail like the shaded golf trail to Saddlebrook? Doubt it. Thank you, Gary!

Back then, every decision was ingenious. Now I see putt putt courses without parking lots. Squares too small for crowds. Few restaurants and no gas stations - what - six years into it? Which new rec centers have workout gyms? (There may be - I don't know.) The closest new MVP club in the healthiest home town? What would we have done if the Lowe's Beaumont land had never been sold off? Don't see any of that planned in the far south. There was so much potential for that strip of land along Okahumpka. Where's the genius anymore?

Now, the Developer is fully aware that the place has momentum and selling houses is a piece of cake. Now, it seems to me that the "improved features" like walking trails and dog parks are pretty inexpensive in comparison to the magical stuff that Gary provided. Clearly, the new people enjoy the nice things in the south, but they really don't know the rest of it.

I believe that other developers can pretty easily duplicate or even improve upon the model they're working with nowadays. They could never duplicate what Gary did.

[tophcfa]

Yup, no doubt that things are being done differently. Not necessarily a bad thing, new residents have more variety of lifestyle choices to consider when deciding where in the Villages to live. We are happy with our choice : )

[Papa_lecki]

No indoor gymnasium in the entire Villages yet??? How about another bowling alley? A softball batting cage? Another driving range? (And why driving ranges but no batting cages. Exactly the same concept.)

The lack of driving ranges confuses me.
Sarasota shows you can take land with a lake (which is needed for water management) and turn it into a cash generator.
People will say you can’t put houses around it for the lot premium, but not all lakes have houses. You could put a lake around a place like Citrus Grove, and put a driving range at one end. Sarasota is always packed with people buying buckets of balls.

[Stu from NYC]

The lack of driving ranges confuses me.
Sarasota shows you can take land with a lake (which is needed for water management) and turn it into a cash generator.
People will say you can’t put houses around it for the lot premium, but not all lakes have houses. You could put a lake around a place like Citrus Grove, and put a driving range at one end. Sarasota is always packed with people buying buckets of balls.

Than hire a scuba diver to collect the wet ones and resell them.

Kind of like double dipping.:a040:

[JMintzer]

The lack of driving ranges confuses me.
Sarasota shows you can take land with a lake (which is needed for water management) and turn it into a cash generator.
People will say you can’t put houses around it for the lot premium, but not all lakes have houses. You could put a lake around a place like Citrus Grove, and put a driving range at one end. Sarasota is always packed with people buying buckets of balls.

The are going to build another Driving Range in Middleton... (along with another Golf Academy and Championship Course)...