900 miles on charge?

[Topspinmo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SGN-Q5KRC8

Claiming 900 miles on charge. Now we’re talking!!! If affordable for masses?

[Stu from NYC]

That would be a game changer for sure

[Two Bills]

My two AA batteries in my tv remote have lasted nearly 18 months so far!:icon_wink:

[Michael G.]

Don't know why, but I just not ready for electric vehicles.

It's the battery that's the heart of these units that make up most of the cost and performance.
Until they develop a lifetime battery with 900 - 1000-mile range, then you'll get my attention.

[retiredguy123]

I think the biggest obstacle will be that most people do not have a garage for charging. There are millions of people who will not have access to a charging station.

[Brad-tv]

Don't know why, but I just not ready for electric vehicles.

It's the battery that's the heart of these units that make up most of the cost and performance.
Until they develop a lifetime battery with 900 - 1000-mile range, then you'll get my attention.


Right now Tesla offers a 8 year 100,000 battery warranty. Many folks claim to have over a million miles with slight battery degradation in charging. There is no car company in the world that will warranty anything over a 100,000 mile warranty on a engine( I believe). 900-1000 mile range per charge is probably just the beginning on range . I would bet in the next 5-10 years all manufacturers will hit this range if not further.

[Brad-tv]

I think the biggest obstacle will be that most people do not have a garage for charging. There are millions of people who will not have access to a charging station.


True
But the current administration is spending a fortune on adding charge stations nationwide. Right now I plug in every night ( cheaper rates) and a full charge 320 miles no more gas ever!! Think about any normal driver how many miles do they drive a day maybe 20 to 50 tops? Long range travel 500 miles a day stop once or twice. As it has been discussed many many times on this forum electric cars are not for everyone but when you get to a 900 mile range I think it’ll change many peoples minds especially when gas it’s $10 a gallon soon

[Stu from NYC]

True
But the current administration is spending a fortune on adding charge stations nationwide. Right now I plug in every night ( cheaper rates) and a full charge 320 miles no more gas ever!! Think about any normal driver how many miles do they drive a day maybe 20 to 50 tops? Long range travel 500 miles a day stop once or twice. As it has been discussed many many times on this forum electric cars are not for everyone but when you get to a 900 mile range I think it’ll change many peoples minds especially when gas it’s $10 a gallon soon

$ 10 per gallons sure hope not.

[Michael G.]

I think it’ll change many peoples minds especially when gas it’s $10 a gallon soon

I love it.........
You THINK this will change peoples minds.
You THINK gas will go to $10 a gallon soon.

I THINK I'll take my chances and wait and see.

[Bill14564]

900 would be a game changer. We'll see what happens once they actually start manufacturing batteries and after 2024 when they plan to turn their attention to EVs. Good news, but futureware at this point.

[Keefelane66]

Don't know why, but I just not ready for electric vehicles.

It's the battery that's the heart of these units that make up most of the cost and performance.
Until they develop a lifetime battery with 900 - 1000-mile range, then you'll get my attention.
And when they achieve a 1000 mile range you’ll want 2,000

[NotGolfer]

What people don't stop and think about is...."where does electricity come from?" You have to have power to make power and that comes from (gasp) oil!!! Also what to do with ALL those batteries when you want to throw them out? Not too "green" now. Wouldn't be enough charging stations to serve all who can afford to buy these things. I'll stick with my "gas-driven" car!!

[Topspinmo]

True
But the current administration is spending a fortune on adding charge stations nationwide. Right now I plug in every night ( cheaper rates) and a full charge 320 miles no more gas ever!! Think about any normal driver how many miles do they drive a day maybe 20 to 50 tops? Long range travel 500 miles a day stop once or twice. As it has been discussed many many times on this forum electric cars are not for everyone but when you get to a 900 mile range I think it’ll change many peoples minds especially when gas it’s $10 a gallon soon

Electricity is going to go up, sooner or later government (local and federal) going figure out taxing it. IMO in the end will be be about same cost. When range and cost becomes realistic for masses I’m all in.

[jdulej]

What people don't stop and think about is...."where does electricity come from?" You have to have power to make power and that comes from (gasp) oil!!! Also what to do with ALL those batteries when you want to throw them out? Not too "green" now. Wouldn't be enough charging stations to serve all who can afford to buy these things. I'll stick with my "gas-driven" car!!
These are all the same types of issues that faced the move to internal combustion, and they were "solved", mostly in bad ways. Hopefully this time it's done more thoughtfully, but I'm not holding my breath on that front. But, the train has left the station - in 10 (maybe 15) years you will not be able to buy a new gas powered auto.

[Topspinmo]

I think the biggest obstacle will be that most people do not have a garage for charging. There are millions of people who will not have access to a charging station.

All need is 220V outlet. Eventually apartments will have hookup is parking spots. I sure they will take cut of the pie?

[La lamy]

Don't know why, but I just not ready for electric vehicles.

It's the battery that's the heart of these units that make up most of the cost and performance.
Until they develop a lifetime battery with 900 - 1000-mile range, then you'll get my attention.

Agreed.

[jebartle]

What is replacement cost for these batteries, ooouch!

[MartinSE]

What people don't stop and think about is...."where does electricity come from?" You have to have power to make power and that comes from (gasp) oil!!! Also what to do with ALL those batteries when you want to throw them out? Not too "green" now. Wouldn't be enough charging stations to serve all who can afford to buy these things. I'll stick with my "gas-driven" car!!

Tesla is already recycling, they are not thrown out.

You are right, tomorrow there will not be enough to change 300 million EVs - that is how many ICE vehicles are on the road. Tesla will be trying to reach 1 million EVs sold this year, and 2 million next year. At that rate it will take decades to completely replace ICE with EV. And at that rate, there is plenty of time to build out an infrastructure to support them.

We have to start someplace. NO one can afford to build out super chargers to support 300 million EVs. There has to be revenue generated to pay for it. That is what Tesla is doing now, building. GM, Ford, et al, will have a LOT of catching up to do, since they need to produce batteries and decide how and where they get charged. That is also whey there is no practical CHEAP EV. All the EVs have to have a high enough profit margin to pay for the buildout.

What the government could do is force various companies making EVs to have compatible charing ports, so no one has to build all the charging stations for themselves.

[Keefelane66]

What is replacement cost for these batteries, ooouch!
Nothing to worry about I have a 2008 Prius hybrid currently I have 290,000 miles on vehicle still getting my 52 mpg 14 years no issues when the batteries die I have been quoted $850 including installation choice will be to replace batteries or junk car I get between 575 to 600 miles per tank about 3 months driving. My Ford F-150 lightning EV should arrive approx June I’m not worried!

[EdFNJ]

I think the biggest obstacle will be that most people do not have a garage for charging. There are millions of people who will not have access to a charging station. There are many models of outdoor rated EV chargers listed right on Home Depot. Why would a garage matter wrt charging? Most homes have a minimum of 4 outdoor walls to use. :D

Weatherproof - EV Chargers - Renewable Energy - The Home Depot (https://www.homedepot.com/b/Electrical-Renewable-Energy-EV-Chargers/Weatherproof/N-5yc1vZc3gjZ1z0mjmh)

[JMintzer]

There are many models of outdoor rated EV chargers listed right on Home Depot. Why would a garage matter wrt charging? Most homes have a minimum of 4 outdoor walls to use. :D

Weatherproof - EV Chargers - Renewable Energy - The Home Depot (https://www.homedepot.com/b/Electrical-Renewable-Energy-EV-Chargers/Weatherproof/N-5yc1vZc3gjZ1z0mjmh)

No garage/driveway (quite common in cities), means on street parking. Where do they plug in?

High rise apartments? Where does everyone plug in?

[Reiver]

Good luck with that.
https://twitter.com/stats_feed/status/1512445210097160195

[Garywt]

True
But the current administration is spending a fortune on adding charge stations nationwide. Right now I plug in every night ( cheaper rates) and a full charge 320 miles no more gas ever!! Think about any normal driver how many miles do they drive a day maybe 20 to 50 tops? Long range travel 500 miles a day stop once or twice. As it has been discussed many many times on this forum electric cars are not for everyone but when you get to a 900 mile range I think it’ll change many peoples minds especially when gas it’s $10 a gallon soon

Luckily gas prices are starting to come down some. Day to day is not the issue but a 1400 miles drive 3-5 times a year is the issue. If staying overnight half way will work if the hotel has charging stations. As long as at home you can just plug into any outlet then that would work.

[Topspinmo]

Luckily gas prices are starting to come down some. Day to day is not the issue but a 1400 miles drive 3-5 times a year is the issue. If staying overnight half way will work if the hotel has charging stations. As long as at home you can just plug into any outlet then that would work.

Fast charging have to be at least 220v.

[MDLNB]

To replace the batteries in a electric golf cart it will cost you a minimum of $1100. To replace the batteries in today's EVs the cost averages about $10K (if I am not mistaken). Batteries do not last forever and degrade as they get older, making distance driving shorter and shorter. EVs and ICE are going to have to co-exist, period. EVs will never be a viable plan for the low wage earner, and will be a major investment for the middle class earner. If I was going to purchase a brand new golf cart, it would ONLY be a gasoline fueled vehicle. If you run out of gas fuel on the road, you can walk to a station and pick up a gallon of gasoline to make it to the next filling station. Far as I know, you cannot carry enough electric if you run out on the road to get to the next charging station.
I am not very concerned as I know that EVs will not take over in my lifetime. I figure that the best they will be able to do is replace about a quarter of the commuting traffic on the roads with EVs in the next 20 years. Hybrids maybe, full EV....nope.

[noslices1]

They need to build an efficient “on board” charging system that charges the battery as you are driving, so there will be unlimited miles, not just 900 and no charging stations needed.

[ithos]

They need to build an efficient “on board” charging system that charges the battery as you are driving, so there will be unlimited miles, not just 900 and no charging stations needed.

Perpetual motion machine. I love it!!

[ldovermiller]

More electric vehicles with less gasoline tax collected for road repair/ construction, who is going to pick up the tab for this??? Guess
who??? Quite a scam!

[thevillages2013]

True
But the current administration is spending a fortune on adding charge stations nationwide. Right now I plug in every night ( cheaper rates) and a full charge 320 miles no more gas ever!! Think about any normal driver how many miles do they drive a day maybe 20 to 50 tops? Long range travel 500 miles a day stop once or twice. As it has been discussed many many times on this forum electric cars are not for everyone but when you get to a 900 mile range I think it’ll change many peoples minds especially when gas it’s $10 a gallon soon

If gas goes to $10 a gallon it is because “They” want it to so they can get you to buy an electric vehicle. Really screwed up IMO

[flyboyl39]

The problem becomes marketing your used ev car. The average age of cars in the US is 12.1 years old. Even with an 8 yr warranty these cars will be unsaleable. The new Ford Mach E battery pack when replaced under warranty is a 40,000 dollar warranty claim. A Prius ( which is only a hybrid with a way cheaper battery pack ) replacement battery pack is 4000. By year 5 most true ev’s lose 30% of their range also. There will be no market for these when used.

[thevillages2013]

Luckily gas prices are starting to come down some. Day to day is not the issue but a 1400 miles drive 3-5 times a year is the issue. If staying overnight half way will work if the hotel has charging stations. As long as at home you can just plug into any outlet then that would work.

Gas prices are a roller coaster ride down a little and then right back up. Check the pump prices this week?

[Stu from NYC]

They need to build an efficient “on board” charging system that charges the battery as you are driving, so there will be unlimited miles, not just 900 and no charging stations needed.

For now hybrids will fit that bill.

[B-flat]

Don't know why, but I just not ready for electric vehicles.

It's the battery that's the heart of these units that make up most of the cost and performance.
Until they develop a lifetime battery with 900 - 1000-mile range, then you'll get my attention.

That's two of us, at least two of us probably many more too. With any luck, I'll be in my grave before this comes to full fruition. I know some of my problem is I believe we are being scammed by the very people who are supposed to have our best interests in mind.

[JMintzer]

Luckily gas prices are starting to come down some. Day to day is not the issue but a 1400 miles drive 3-5 times a year is the issue. If staying overnight half way will work if the hotel has charging stations. As long as at home you can just plug into any outlet then that would work.

What, $0.10 (after going up over $2.00?)

[Blackbird45]

Everyone who states it's the batteries are correct. But they are improving the batteries every day, also there are car manufactures right now that will actually rent batteries as part of their sale. They are reducing the price of the car and you rent the battery. As far as charging stations, they will start popping up all over once people realize they can make a profit from them. As far as homes, as the price starts to drop, and people start to learn their car will be charge waiting for them in the morning they will be a rush to install them. The last argument against the batteries is the charging time. All major roadways will have charging stations installed by the states because they can make money from them (like the soda & candy machines). So, you stop charge for 20 minutes, while the gas car next to you can gas up in 5 minutes, but let's not forget the 10 minutes to pull off the road and then back on.

They are now testing a battery plane for short runs and supposedly DHL is discussing about purchasing a fleet. I don't think a company that size would be interested if they didn't think it would help their bottom line.

[MidWestIA]

so why isn't in the news for a ev car now - saw a blip they are starting with air taxis???

[Chi-Town]

What people don't stop and think about is...."where does electricity come from?" You have to have power to make power and that comes from (gasp) oil!!! Also what to do with ALL those batteries when you want to throw them out? Not too "green" now. Wouldn't be enough charging stations to serve all who can afford to buy these things. I'll stick with my "gas-driven" car!!

Get ready to gasp. Oil produces less than one half of a percent (0.5%) of our electricity needs.

Electricity in the U.S. - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) (https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/electricity/electricity-in-the-us.php)

[merrymini]

I have owned three Prius, never a problem with the batteries, even though that was the fear when they first came out.

I owned a Tesla and sold it for a profit because of demand. Super, super car.

Electric cars use energy (daaaahhhh) but have no exhaust fumes. Definitely a plus.

It will be many decades before gas vehicles disappear. Should be pretty exciting.

[Nellmack]

The problem becomes marketing your used ev car. The average age of cars in the US is 12.1 years old. Even with an 8 yr warranty these cars will be unsaleable. The new Ford Mach E battery pack when replaced under warranty is a 40,000 dollar warranty claim. A Prius ( which is only a hybrid with a way cheaper battery pack ) replacement battery pack is 4000. By year 5 most true ev’s lose 30% of their range also. There will be no market for these when used.

I drove my 1st Tesla for 7 years (137,000 miles) and I went from 220 miles of available daily battery down to 214 miles. That's 6 miles or about 2.6% loss..... over 7 years.....

Your comment that ev's loose 30% over 5 years is incorrect.

[Stu from NYC]

Get ready to gasp. Oil produces less than one half of a percent (0.5%) of our electricity needs.

Electricity in the U.S. - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) (https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/electricity/electricity-in-the-us.php)

What about that little thing called coal?

[Chi-Town]

What about that little thing called coal?

Was just focusing on the oil misinformation but glad you read the article.

[toeser]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SGN-Q5KRC8

Claiming 900 miles on charge. Now we’re talking!!! If affordable for masses?

I would suggest people start watching around the 9 minute mark to avoid a lot of unrelated stuff.

[JMintzer]

Was just focusing on the oil misinformation but glad you read the article.

So, you cherry picked the article... (P.S. You also ignored Natural Gas...)

[toeser]

Get ready to gasp. Oil produces less than one half of a percent (0.5%) of our electricity needs.

Electricity in the U.S. - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) (https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/electricity/electricity-in-the-us.php)

That's because natural gas is the primary fossil fuel for electricity generation.

[MartinSE]

Get ready to gasp. Oil produces less than one half of a percent (0.5%) of our electricity needs.

Electricity in the U.S. - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) (https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/electricity/electricity-in-the-us.php)

This is true, but oil produces 99.99% of the energy used to move cars. Not so much of the electricity to charge batteries as some would say.

[Chi-Town]

So, you cherry picked the article... (P.S. You also ignored Natural Gas...)

You obviously
ignored post #12 and cherry picked my response. But glad you read the article.

[MartinSE]

I drove my 1st Tesla for 7 years (137,000 miles) and I went from 220 miles of available daily battery down to 214 miles. That's 6 miles or about 2.6% loss..... over 7 years.....

Your comment that ev's loose 30% over 5 years is incorrect.

What was being quoted is what Tesla says in their warranty, ie. the battery will charge to at least 70% of its original charge up to 1xx,xxx miles (depending on model).

Like any warranty, Tesla is being conservative. If they didn't then they would face lawsuits as soon as one failed to perform.

I have not seen ONE post in numerous threads here and everywhere that a Tesla owner said they were dissatisfied with their car on any front (other than some build and fit issues in early models). Instead it is people that don't own them, saying how terrible they are.

[MrFlorida]

900 miles ? At what cost for the vehicle, ?

[flyboyl39]

I drove my 1st Tesla for 7 years (137,000 miles) and I went from 220 miles of available daily battery down to 214 miles. That's 6 miles or about 2.6% loss..... over 7 years.....

Your comment that ev's loose 30% over 5 years is incorrect.

Your individual experience does not make me incorrect . There are people that have driven their gas vehicles 400000 miles without a major repair ,,, does that mean they all will ??? My son is a wholesale car buyer for one of the major automotive retailers, it is a known fact among those that buy cars for a living. They bought a 5 yr old 300 mile range Tesla 6 months ago,,, it now has a 230 mile range fully charged .

[DaleDivine]

They need to build an efficient “on board” charging system that charges the battery as you are driving, so there will be unlimited miles, not just 900 and no charging stations needed.

Maybe even call it a hybrid...
:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[DaleDivine]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SGN-Q5KRC8

Claiming 900 miles on charge. Now we’re talking!!! If affordable for masses?

Never replace gas in our grandchildren's lifetime...
:ohdear::ohdear:

[DaleDivine]

No garage/driveway (quite common in cities), means on street parking. Where do they plug in?

High rise apartments? Where does everyone plug in?

I can see it now. Someone using an extension cord to steal power from another persons charger at apartments. They go to get in car that was supposed to be charging and the battery is dead.
:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[tophcfa]

My two AA batteries in my tv remote have lasted nearly 18 months so far!:icon_wink:

So does ours, but the remote doesn’t need to travel at 75 MPH for 11 hours, for two consecutive days, packed full of stuff, with the HVAC system running, like our car does to get between our homes.

[Vermilion Villager]

The problem becomes marketing your used ev car. The average age of cars in the US is 12.1 years old. Even with an 8 yr warranty these cars will be unsaleable. The new Ford Mach E battery pack when replaced under warranty is a 40,000 dollar warranty claim. A Prius ( which is only a hybrid with a way cheaper battery pack ) replacement battery pack is 4000. By year 5 most true ev’s lose 30% of their range also. There will be no market for these when used.
Congratulations!!! You just won this week's. Most Made Up Crap In One Post award!!!!:bigbow:

[flyboyl39]

Congratulations!!! You just won this week's. Most Made Up Crap In One Post award!!!!:bigbow:

What part is made up ??? Look it up on your own. Average age is 12.1 yrs . The dealer group my son buys cars .for had the 40000 dollar warranty claim . And ev’s do loose their capacity significantly over time.So it is all true and you do not know what you are talking about.

[Keefelane66]

What was being quoted is what Tesla says in their warranty, ie. the battery will charge to at least 70% of its original charge up to 1xx,xxx miles (depending on model).

Like any warranty, Tesla is being conservative. If they didn't then they would face lawsuits as soon as one failed to perform.

I have not seen ONE post in numerous threads here and everywhere that a Tesla owner said they were dissatisfied with their car on any front (other than some build and fit issues in early models). Instead it is people that don't own them, saying how terrible they are.
Bingo,
seems most poster on TOTV have no idea especially this post and make stuff up.
Just because they may not like EV’s no one should.

[flyboyl39]

If you are referring to my post when did I say I didn’t like ev’s . I have owned 2 Prius ( one whose battery pack failed) my post was regarding the long term viability of a pure ev in the used marketplace. I personally feel hybrids are the answer not pure ev’s and so does the chairman of Toyota. ( look it up )

[Blackbird45]

We have spent Trillions on defense systems to protect ourselves from Russia. We are adding more and more sanctions every day to stop the war in Ukraine. Our European partners are doing the same, but they are feeding the Russian war machine because they rely on their oil. Wouldn't it be great to switch to an alternative fuel and starves Russia back to the stone age? Not only Russia, but also all the other countries we have to bend the knee to for their black gold.

[MrChipster]

I think the biggest obstacle will be that most people do not have a garage for charging. There are millions of people who will not have access to a charging station.

Not even addressing the fact that most landlords will not be willing or potentially able to put charging stations and metering into every parking location for their tenants.

[MrChipster]

We have spent Trillions on defense systems to protect ourselves from Russia. We are adding more and more sanctions every day to stop the war in Ukraine. Our European partners are doing the same, but they are feeding the Russian war machine because they rely on their oil. Wouldn't it be great to switch to an alternative fuel and starves Russia back to the stone age? Not only Russia, but also all the other countries we have to bend the knee to for their black gold.

Were we not an energy (fossil fuel) net exporter just 15 months ago?

[Sherry8bal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SGN-Q5KRC8

Claiming 900 miles on charge. Now we’re talking!!! If affordable for masses?

I don't believe it for one minute. Sounds like propaganda to get more people to buy these outrageously priced electric cars. They only want you to buy them because too many "fat cats" have millions invested in them all over the country. The batteries and the cars themselves have been proven to not be good for the environment - it's all about money!

[Blackbird45]

Not even addressing the fact that most landlords will not be willing or potentially able to put charging stations and metering into every parking location for their tenants.

That might not be the fact, a third party might lease the parking spot area from the landlord to put a charging stations in place and maintain it if they believe it is profitable.
The third party might even be the electric companies themselves.

[OhioBuckeye]

Michael, people don’t realize how expensive it is to own an electric vehicle. I think it’ll be a while before an electric car will get 900 to 1,000 miles. Make sure you do your homework very extensively. There’s a lot more expenses to own an electric car than they’re telling you. I’m not an expert on electric cars, but retired from a Auto Plant after 38 yrs. helped! Like I tell everybody, do what you want but don’t cry about it after you spend lots of money on one.Do your homework!

[Blackbird45]

Were we not an energy (fossil fuel) net exporter just 15 months ago?
But we are not totally depended on oil and gas alone. We are not attacking other countries and we are not chopping up reporters we don't like.

[Vermilion Villager]

Were we not an energy (fossil fuel) net exporter just 15 months ago?
And why was that????
Answer: Because 15 months ago there was this little thing called a pandemic (maybe you heard of it....almost 1 million Americans died from in less than 2 years)
Anyways..... that pandemic shut everything down and nobody was driving their cars hence not using gas.
Now imaging how we could get back to that export status again without a virus?
Answer: Americans don't use gas.
And how would they do that?
Answer: By driving vehicles that don't use gas.:ho:

[MartinSE]

I don't believe it for one minute. Sounds like propaganda to get more people to buy these outrageously priced electric cars. They only want you to buy them because too many "fat cats" have millions invested in them all over the country. The batteries and the cars themselves have been proven to not be good for the environment - it's all about money!

Why would they promote something they can't sell? Tesla is back ordered almost a year.

Batteries and cars are bad for the environment, and Vaccines have trackers in them - about the same.

[MrChipster]

That might not be the fact, a third party might lease the parking spot area from the landlord to put a charging stations in place and maintain it if they believe it is profitable.
The third party might even be the electric companies themselves.

Feel free to invest your own private dollars in that program…

[MartinSE]

And why was that????
Answer: Because 15 months ago there was this little thing called a pandemic (maybe you heard of it....almost 1 million Americans died from in less than 2 years)
Anyways..... that pandemic shut everything down and nobody was driving their cars hence not using gas.
Now imaging how we could get back to that export status again without a virus?
Answer: Americans don't use gas.
And how would they do that?
Answer: By driving vehicles that don't use gas.:ho:

Isn't it investing that many (most) of the COVID deniers are also anti EV. Not all, but it does seem like most. And it is also interesting to me to hear the wording - "They are not going to FORCE me to wear a mask or get a vaccine" and They are not going to FORCE me to buy an EV, they are FORCING kids to learn about CRT". It seems a lot of people feel they are being forced about a lot of things.".

[MartinSE]

Michael, people don’t realize how expensive it is to own an electric vehicle. I think it’ll be a while before an electric car will get 900 to 1,000 miles. Make sure you do your homework very extensively. There’s a lot more expenses to own an electric car than they’re telling you. I’m not an expert on electric cars, but retired from a Auto Plant after 38 yrs. helped! Like I tell everybody, do what you want but don’t cry about it after you spend lots of money on one.Do your homework!

OKay, so, you claim there are hidden expenses to owning an EV. Then don't tell us. It seems it would be easy enough to list a few of them if there are a lot.

Then you say you are not an expert, but worked in an Ice factory. Helped! (not sure why that matters or what it means.)

On the other hand, numerous Tesla owners have posted on these constantly repeating threads, and in EVERY case they are more than satisfied at how inexpensive the EVs are to own.

Police departments (obviously hard on cars) are testing Tesla's and in every case are happy with the cost savings and are typically ordering more to replace the ICE vehicles they traditionally used. Schools are buying EV Buses because they are so my more Inexpensive to own and operate. And on and on.

But, "THEY are not telling us the truth"

Hmmm, who to believe.

[MartinSE]

Your individual experience does not make me incorrect . There are people that have driven their gas vehicles 400000 miles without a major repair ,,, does that mean they all will ??? My son is a wholesale car buyer for one of the major automotive retailers, it is a known fact among those that buy cars for a living. They bought a 5 yr old 300 mile range Tesla 6 months ago,,, it now has a 230 mile range fully charged .

Any car dealers offering a 400,000 mile warranty on the engine? No? Why? And that is ONE case - to quote you

Any EV companies offering a 150,000 warranty on batteries? OH, year, they are. I don't know if the battery warranty is transferable on Tesla's but regardless of age, they have a 100,000 to 150,000 mile warranty. Since the example you quoted was a USED car, we have no way of knowing what use it had been put to, how it had been abused or anything.

I am fairly certain if I said, I both a USED 5 year old ICE (you pick the brand) and complained about it, you would say, you get what you pay for when buying used.

[MartinSE]

So, you cherry picked the article... (P.S. You also ignored Natural Gas...)

No, their post specifically said OIL. And was perfectly accurate. There are several fossil fuels sources, but OIL is the only (in real practice) one that produces gasoline. So, OIL is the only one pertinent to this discussion. I would suggest you are the one being nit picky.

[Topspinmo]

What was being quoted is what Tesla says in their warranty, ie. the battery will charge to at least 70% of its original charge up to 1xx,xxx miles (depending on model).

Like any warranty, Tesla is being conservative. If they didn't then they would face lawsuits as soon as one failed to perform.

I have not seen ONE post in numerous threads here and everywhere that a Tesla owner said they were dissatisfied with their car on any front (other than some build and fit issues in early models). Instead it is people that don't own them, saying how terrible they are.

There not old enough yet.

[Topspinmo]

No, their post specifically said OIL. And was perfectly accurate. There are several fossil fuels sources, but OIL is the only (in real practice) one that produces gasoline. So, OIL is the only one pertinent to this discussion. I would suggest you are the one being nit picky.

Natural gas is bi-product of crud oil. Coal crud oil turned to shale. Fossil fuel ALL three. Crud oil makes up big part of manufacturing anything green.

[Topspinmo]

Any car dealers offering a 400,000 mile warranty on the engine? No? Why? And that is ONE case - to quote you

Any EV companies offering a 150,000 warranty on batteries? OH, year, they are. I don't know if the battery warranty is transferable on Tesla's but regardless of age, they have a 100,000 to 150,000 mile warranty. Since the example you quoted was a USED car, we have no way of knowing what use it had been put to, how it had been abused or anything.

I am fairly certain if I said, I both a USED 5 year old ICE (you pick the brand) and complained about it, you would say, you get what you pay for when buying used.


I have never worn out gasoline burning vehicle new or used. I just got tired of them and had to have something else. But, I know where the dip stick and valve stems are. Most people don’t keep vehicle long enough to change oil let along ware one out. It be same with electric they trade every 3 years.

[Blackbird45]

Feel free to invest your own private dollars in that program…

I am invested in Sothern Electric.
I believe electricity will be the fuel for now until something else comes along.

[Vermilion Villager]

Michael, people don’t realize how expensive it is to own an electric vehicle. I think it’ll be a while before an electric car will get 900 to 1,000 miles. Make sure you do your homework very extensively. There’s a lot more expenses to own an electric car than they’re telling you. I’m not an expert on electric cars, but retired from a Auto Plant after 38 yrs. helped! Like I tell everybody, do what you want but don’t cry about it after you spend lots of money on one.Do your homework!
Judging from your post I think you are the one who does not realize the cost of an electric vehicle. In the terms of cost per mile the EV is about half the cost.
https://avt.inl.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/fsev/costs.pdf

[phousel]

They need to build an efficient “on board” charging system that charges the battery as you are driving, so there will be unlimited miles, not just 900 and no charging stations needed.
So what - a nuclear reactor?

[flyboyl39]

Any car dealers offering a 400,000 mile warranty on the engine? No? Why? And that is ONE case - to quote you

Any EV companies offering a 150,000 warranty on batteries? OH, year, they are. I don't know if the battery warranty is transferable on Tesla's but regardless of age, they have a 100,000 to 150,000 mile warranty. Since the example you quoted was a USED car, we have no way of knowing what use it had been put to, how it had been abused or anything.

I am fairly certain if I said, I both a USED 5 year old ICE (you pick the brand) and complained about it, you would say, you get what you pay for when buying used.

You need to go back and read my original post. The average age of a vehicle in the US is 12.1 yrs. They have over 150 thousand miles on them. So a 100 to 150k battery warranty doesn’t get it done considering the outrageously high price of the battery pack. So the long term viability in the used marketplace is absolutely suspect, just like I said.

[Stu from NYC]

So what - a nuclear reactor?

Close but nuclear fusion. It will be coming

[MartinSE]

So what - a nuclear reactor?

Actually, yes - maybe. They are called "Micro-nukes" and both fission and fusion are being studied - fusion not as much because we still don't know how to make BIG ones - LOL

Anyway, yes, a inexhaustible power source with a small form factor and very HIGH energy density would be perfect for many applications, including EVs. And there is research going on.

Needless to say, it will take a while to prove they are safe enough to allow to be put out in 300 million cars - so, don't expect it soon, probably not in our life time.

Personally I would like to see the same effort put into making capacitors instead of batteries viable for EVs. Capacitors do not generate electricity, they store it. How long and much much are the limitations. However, from a practical point of view, they don't ever wear out. (Some cheap capacitors leak and die.) An advantage to capacitors is they will, theoretically, charge as fast as you can pump the juice into them. Literally, if you had a big enough wire and a big enough generator you could charge a capacitor in seconds. And while there are limitations to the current capacitor (size and weight for cars) those could be overcome - maybe - with enough research.

[JMintzer]

You obviously
ignored post #12 and cherry picked my response. But glad you read the article.

No, I responded precisely to your post...

[JMintzer]

Bingo,
seems most poster on TOTV have no idea especially this post and make stuff up.
Just because they may not like EV’s no one should.

Or, to contrast... Those who like EVs believe everyone should...

[JMintzer]

And why was that????
Answer: Because 15 months ago there was this little thing called a pandemic (maybe you heard of it....almost 1 million Americans died from in less than 2 years)
Anyways..... that pandemic shut everything down and nobody was driving their cars hence not using gas.
Now imaging how we could get back to that export status again without a virus?
Answer: Americans don't use gas.
And how would they do that?
Answer: By driving vehicles that don't use gas.:ho:

We were a net exporter well before the pandemic hit... But nice try...

[JMintzer]

OKay, so, you claim there are hidden expenses to owning an EV. Then don't tell us. It seems it would be easy enough to list a few of them if there are a lot.

Then you say you are not an expert, but worked in an Ice factory. Helped! (not sure why that matters or what it means.)

On the other hand, numerous Tesla owners have posted on these constantly repeating threads, and in EVERY case they are more than satisfied at how inexpensive the EVs are to own.

Police departments (obviously hard on cars) are testing Tesla's and in every case are happy with the cost savings and are typically ordering more to replace the ICE vehicles they traditionally used. Schools are buying EV Buses because they are so my more Inexpensive to own and operate. And on and on.

But, "THEY are not telling us the truth"

Hmmm, who to believe.

Less than 1% of school busses are electric (as of the end of 2021). They may be TALKING about it, but it's certainly not a common thing...

Ford is CONSIDERING making a purpose built Police vehicle and some departments are CONSIDERING the new Mustang as pursuit vehicles. Others have used the "Leave" in parking enforcement...

Ford considers "purpose-built electric police vehicles," offers Mach-E electric car for testing (https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1133615_ford-electric-police-vehicles-mach-e-electric-car-testing)

None of this is saying there is any widespread switching to EVs and you're trying to claim...

[JMintzer]

I have never worn out gasoline burning vehicle new or used. I just got tired of them and had to have something else. But, I know where the dip stick and valve stems are. Most people don’t keep vehicle long enough to change oil let along ware one out. It be same with electric they trade every 3 years.

My Hyundai Genesis is 11+ years old. My wife traded in her 8 yo Acura MDX...

MOST people are keeping vehicles MUCH longer than in the past...

From the Google Machine: "The IHS Markit study showed that vehicles are being made with better quality nowadays, leading consumers to own them longer. According to IHS, the average length of ownership was a record 79.3 months, or nearly seven years."

[MartinSE]

You need to go back and read my original post. The average age of a vehicle in the US is 12.1 yrs. They have over 150 thousand miles on them. So a 100 to 150k battery warranty doesn’t get it done considering the outrageously high price of the battery pack. So the long term viability in the used marketplace is absolutely suspect, just like I said.

SO, you think the batteries just die one day? Do the engines just die when they are past their 50,000 warranty? (Do any still offer 50,000?)

They degrade over time, at 150,000 miles they are warranted to still get 70% of their original range. So, instead of 600 miles, they would be down to 420. Or instead of 300 miles, they would be down to 210.

And your "outrageously expensive" description is a personal opinion, obviously, a lot of people think they are worth it. And beyond that, the price of EV batteries has dropped by 89% in the past ten years. There is no reason to believe and no evidence that the decline is over. In fact, historically the price of technology plummets as a mass product is adopted. We are NOT yet at mass production. So, it is reasonable the price of those "outrageously expensive" batteries will be "dirt cheap" in 10 years -

Attached is an image of the bill for an out-of-warranty Telsa Model 3 battery replacement recently, the total (including a few other things that were done) was under $17,000. So, even if the dropping price of batteries only continues at the current rate, it will cost a WHOPPING $1,700. And with the advancement of technology, it is reasonable to assume that the "new battery" in 2032 will have a faster charging rate, and go at least twice as far. (personally, I am betting on 10 times as far.)

[MartinSE]

My Hyundai Genesis is 11+ years old. My wife traded in her 8 yo Acura MDX...

MOST people are keeping vehicles MUCH longer than in the past...

From the Google Machine: "The IHS Markit study showed that vehicles are being made with better quality nowadays, leading consumers to own them longer. According to IHS, the average length of ownership was a record 79.3 months, or nearly seven years."


There are other studies that show cars are not being trade-in for even longer. It used to be 2 or 3 years. I have no problem with people keeping their cars as long as they want to, as long as that car passes emissions testing.

[MartinSE]

Less than 1% of school busses are electric (as of the end of 2021). They may be TALKING about it, but it's certainly not a common thing...

Ford is CONSIDERING making a purpose built Police vehicle and some departments are CONSIDERING the new Mustang as pursuit vehicles. Others have used the "Leave" in parking enforcement...

Ford considers "purpose-built electric police vehicles," offers Mach-E electric car for testing (https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1133615_ford-electric-police-vehicles-mach-e-electric-car-testing)

None of this is saying there is any widespread switching to EVs and you're trying to claim...

I understand you will not like this, but you confirmed everything I said. I NEVER said there is widespread switching, I said it was starting and those that have actually tested them, are buying more.

If I did say there is WIDE SPREAD acceptance or adopting I will plead I don't remember and should not have and apologize.

[flyboyl39]

SO, you think the batteries just die one day? Do the engines just die when they are past their 50,000 warranty? (Do any still offer 50,000?)

They degrade over time, at 150,000 miles they are warranted to still get 70% of their original range. So, instead of 600 miles, they would be down to 420. Or instead of 300 miles, they would be down to 210.

And your "outrageously expensive" description is a personal opinion, obviously, a lot of people think they are worth it. And beyond that, the price of EV batteries has dropped by 89% in the past ten years. There is no reason to believe and no evidence that the decline is over. In fact, historically the price of technology plummets as a mass product is adopted. We are NOT yet at mass production. So, it is reasonable the price of those "outrageously expensive" batteries will be "dirt cheap" in 10 years -

Attached is an image of the bill for an out-of-warranty Telsa Model 3 battery replacement recently, the total (including a few other things that were done) was under $17,000. So, even if the dropping price of batteries only continues at the current rate, it will cost a WHOPPING $1,700. And with the advancement of technology, it is reasonable to assume that the "new battery" in 2032 will have a faster charging rate, and go at least twice as far. (personally, I am betting on 10 times as far.)

Wow! Thank you for making my point for me !! A 17000 dollar bill on a car that can’t be over 5 yrs old because they didn’t make them till 2017 !!
Your logic about the battery dropping in price with the shortage of Lithium is also really a stretch. Is everything you are buying right now today dropping in price ??? Also there is so much Lithium being sourced in this country isn’t there? Oh no, it comes from other countries doesn’t it ! Again, I am not anti ev’s at all but my point still stands,,,, the long term viability of them as a major transportation medium is still in doubt . Especially true with the fact that the nations power grid can’t handle the load now .

[Badger 2006]

True
But the current administration is spending a fortune on adding charge stations nationwide. Right now I plug in every night ( cheaper rates) and a full charge 320 miles no more gas ever!! Think about any normal driver how many miles do they drive a day maybe 20 to 50 tops? Long range travel 500 miles a day stop once or twice. As it has been discussed many many times on this forum electric cars are not for everyone but when you get to a 900 mile range I think it’ll change many peoples minds especially when gas it’s $10 a gallon soon

By “the current administration” I interpret that to mean “the American taxpayer” which consists of only 43% of American households that paid taxes in 2021. Are we the taxpayers going to receive the income these estimated 500,000 charging stations at a taxpayer cost of $178 Billion will generate?

[Topspinmo]

Judging from your post I think you are the one who does not realize the cost of an electric vehicle. In the terms of cost per mile the EV is about half the cost.
https://avt.inl.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/fsev/costs.pdf


Right now, but will it be when masses have electric vehicles? That’s the million dollar question? I’m betting kilowatts will be on stock exchange and taxes to death and costs will be same or more. :duck:

[Badger 2006]

The problem becomes marketing your used ev car. The average age of cars in the US is 12.1 years old. Even with an 8 yr warranty these cars will be unsaleable. The new Ford Mach E battery pack when replaced under warranty is a 40,000 dollar warranty claim. A Prius ( which is only a hybrid with a way cheaper battery pack ) replacement battery pack is 4000. By year 5 most true ev’s lose 30% of their range also. There will be no market for these when used.

Gee why think of that now? Let’s certainly not put all the positives and negatives on the table so we can understand the total picture. Just point the herd to the water hole but certainly don’t inform them of the potential hazards in the water. So re-read the informative quote highlighted above before you rush to the water hole.

[JMintzer]

Don't forget... All those ICE vehicles pay fuel taxes that support road construction, maintenance...

EVs pay none of that... YET...

But not to worry, they'll find a way to tax them (most likely as a per mile tax) and the cost of ownership will rise...

[Topspinmo]

My Hyundai Genesis is 11+ years old. My wife traded in her 8 yo Acura MDX...

MOST people are keeping vehicles MUCH longer than in the past...

From the Google Machine: "The IHS Markit study showed that vehicles are being made with better quality nowadays, leading consumers to own them longer. According to IHS, the average length of ownership was a record 79.3 months, or nearly seven years."

One hundred mens will test today, but only 3 professionals will keep car pass 3 years…. :coolsmiley:

[MartinSE]

Lots of posts predicting the future with only "common sense" and no backing by anything. And yet, every car maker in the world (or close to it) is jumping on the wagon. They must all be so stupid. If you own any of their stock, I hope you unlock it before the rest of the stock holder decide they are going to go out of business selling EVs.

[JMintzer]

One hundred mens will test today, but only 3 professionals will keep car pass 3 years…. :coolsmiley:

That's because many "professionals" lease their vehicles for tax purposes. Leases are most commonly 3 years...

I leased a car once, about 25 years ago. I didn't notice much benefit, so I never did it again... And I've kept my vehicles an average of 7-8 years, before passing them on to my kids...

[MartinSE]

By “the current administration” I interpret that to mean “the American taxpayer” which consists of only 43% of American households that paid taxes in 2021. Are we the taxpayers going to receive the income these estimated 500,000 charging stations at a taxpayer cost of $178 Billion will generate?

Uh, wow.

Okay, I had to take a breath. Okay, you may want to push fast forward on that recording your are watching, the number you quoted was from a bill Biden proposed in 2021, and the GOP shot down.

The program he just signed into law is different: Department of Energy (http://Energy.gov)


"The program will provide nearly $5 billion over five years to help states create a network of EV charging stations along designated Alternative Fuel Corridors, particularly along the Interstate Highway System. The total amount available to states in Fiscal Year 2022 under the NEVI Formula Program is $615 million."

That's about $16 per tax payer spread over a period of 5 years. Or about $3.20 per year. .

[Blackbird45]

Alternate fuel cars are coming, you can argue about the batteries, their price, the longevity of the vehicle, how long today's owners keep their cars, the charging time, on and on.

At the end the consumer will determine how fast gas cars will fade out. A good barometer to focus on is how much money all the car companies are investing in the EV future. Remember before 1900, horses still dominated the mode of transportation in this country, and we all have to admit things are moving a lot faster today.

Whatever problems these vehicles are facing today will work its way out, as long as there is a profit at the end someone will come up with a solution. No matter how much wants to hold onto the past you cannot stop the future.

[Stu from NYC]

Alternate fuel cars are coming, you can argue about the batteries, their price, the longevity of the vehicle, how long today's owners keep their cars, the charging time, on and on.

At the end the consumer will determine how fast gas cars will fade out. A good barometer to focus on is how much money all the car companies are investing in the EV future. Remember before 1900, horses still dominated the mode of transportation in this country, and we all have to admit things are moving a lot faster today.

Whatever problems these vehicles are facing today will work its way out, as long as there is a profit at the end someone will come up with a solution. No matter how much wants to hold onto the past you cannot stop the future.

What you say is true but consumers will still be able to vote with their feet. The question to me is will consumers be willing to pay the extra initial costs of EVs?

Time will tell.

[Two Bills]

My old ICE Volvo has a lot of miles left in it.
Just hope my old body has same!
EV's are for the kids.
Most on here will burn gas until it's time for them to burn!

[bkrug123]

That is a great video about Tesla and Elon Musk. Thank you for sharing.

[mrf0151]

Concerned here about safety of charging a car while in my garage. The only garage vehicle fires in The Villages have been electric golf carts. Now we are hearing about fires starting while charging electric cars. NOT SAFE.
Tesla Model S in US catches fire while charging overnight in a garage (https://www.republicworld.com/world-news/us-news/tesla-model-s-in-us-catches-fire-while-charging-overnight-in-a-garage.html)

[Topspinmo]

That's because many "professionals" lease their vehicles for tax purposes. Leases are most commonly 3 years...

I leased a car once, about 25 years ago. I didn't notice much benefit, so I never did it again... And I've kept my vehicles an average of 7-8 years, before passing them on to my kids...


Afraid to keep car pass 3 years, same difference.

[Topspinmo]

SO, you think the batteries just die one day? Do the engines just die when they are past their 50,000 warranty? (Do any still offer 50,000?)

They degrade over time, at 150,000 miles they are warranted to still get 70% of their original range. So, instead of 600 miles, they would be down to 420. Or instead of 300 miles, they would be down to 210.

And your "outrageously expensive" description is a personal opinion, obviously, a lot of people think they are worth it. And beyond that, the price of EV batteries has dropped by 89% in the past ten years. There is no reason to believe and no evidence that the decline is over. In fact, historically the price of technology plummets as a mass product is adopted. We are NOT yet at mass production. So, it is reasonable the price of those "outrageously expensive" batteries will be "dirt cheap" in 10 years -

Attached is an image of the bill for an out-of-warranty Telsa Model 3 battery replacement recently, the total (including a few other things that were done) was under $17,000. So, even if the dropping price of batteries only continues at the current rate, it will cost a WHOPPING $1,700. And with the advancement of technology, it is reasonable to assume that the "new battery" in 2032 will have a faster charging rate, and go at least twice as far. (personally, I am betting on 10 times as far.)

I bet you lose that bet…

[Topspinmo]

I don't believe it for one minute. Sounds like propaganda to get more people to buy these outrageously priced electric cars. They only want you to buy them because too many "fat cats" have millions invested in them all over the country. The batteries and the cars themselves have been proven to not be good for the environment - it's all about money!

Electric vehicles has to be cheaper to make, but price outrageously high. I’m on fence it could happen in 10 to 15 years? But, majority of us posting will be como toast by then.

[Topspinmo]

But we are not totally depended on oil and gas alone. We are not attacking other countries and we are not chopping up reporters we don't like.

The world is totally dependent on gas, crud oil, and products made from fossil fuels. Electric vehicles not going to stop it, reduce it maybe but it will still be in high demand.

We don’t know what governments are doing in other countries.

[MartinSE]

Concerned here about safety of charging a car while in my garage. The only garage vehicle fires in The Villages have been electric golf carts. Now we are hearing about fires starting while charging electric cars. NOT SAFE.
Tesla Model S in US catches fire while charging overnight in a garage (https://www.republicworld.com/world-news/us-news/tesla-model-s-in-us-catches-fire-while-charging-overnight-in-a-garage.html)

Fires are extremely rare. Here is a summary article, basically 60 fires in 8 years, and the article puts the fire count into context, meaning what were they, how do they compare to other sources, etc.

Hope it helps:

Ignore the Hype: Spontaneous Tesla Fires are Incredibly Rare (https://cleantechnica.com/2021/12/08/its-extremely-rare-for-teslas-to-spontaneously-catch-on-fire/)

[bogmonster]

I have a Tesla Model X, love it, but because it is a cool car not for any 'Save the Earth' reasons. I do hate the fact that the kids writing the software have never driven a car and don't realize that turning on the defroster when you are driving 75mph shouldn't be buried 3 menus deep.

Fun facts:

1) It's nice to never have to go to a gas station in the middle of winter Here in Minnesota. My car is 'USUALLY' charge in the morning.

2) The range is about 320 miles per charge in the warm months (June, July, August). Tesla still reports 320 in the middle of winter even though I actually only get 150.

3) I've had many days that I'm glad that the pandemic happened and I have the ability to work remotely any time I want. Forget to plug in the car at night and start the next day with fake 200 miles range. I'm not risky enough to drive 50 miles at -20 degrees and hope i make it home.

4) From 7th grade physics, if you want to make an efficient vehicle, you make it light. My Model X weighs somewhere around 5500 lbs. BTW: most full size trucks are much lighter than that.

5) Charging at night works great, but there aren't any alternative energy sources that generate electricity at night. Solar doesn't work at all at night and the wind usually dies at night.

6) Tesla supercharging is great and free (I have unlimited, lifetime charging). Other vehicles it's going to take a long time to build up their network.

7) When we first get a network built up, price gouging is going to be the norm. When you are down to 50 miles charge and the next charging station is 100 miles away, you have to pay the troll, no matter what the price.

8) It's almost impossible for the current ICE manufacturers to close down their ICE lines. They are legally obligated to have to support their vehicles for a number of years. Watched an interesting youtube video on just shutting down one model of engine a few years ago. Took 5 years or so.

Just my $0.02

Mike

[Blackbird45]

My car is 2 years old; I'm holding out to 2024 and will switch to an EV. I'm up there in age and what I'm hoping for is a level 5 self driving car. I'd like to ride in one before I'm in the back of one on my way to Forest Lawn

[bogmonster]

My car is 2 years old; I'm holding out to 2024 and will switch to an EV. I'm up there in age and what I'm hoping for is a level 5 self driving car. I'd like to ride in one before I'm in the back of one on my way to Forest Lawn

I paid 10k for that feature in my Model X. Now 2.5 years later I'm hoping i get to see it before I get rid of my car.

[nhtexasrn]

Yes, many can't see the forest for the trees.

[nhtexasrn]

What people don't stop and think about is...."where does electricity come from?" You have to have power to make power and that comes from (gasp) oil!!! Also what to do with ALL those batteries when you want to throw them out? Not too "green" now. Wouldn't be enough charging stations to serve all who can afford to buy these things. I'll stick with my "gas-driven" car!!

Yes, many can't see the forest for the trees!

[MartinSE]

I have a Tesla Model X, love it, but because it is a cool car not for any 'Save the Earth' reasons. I do hate the fact that the kids writing the software have never driven a car and don't realize that turning on the defroster when you are driving 75mph shouldn't be buried 3 menus deep.

Fun facts:

1) It's nice to never have to go to a gas station in the middle of winter Here in Minnesota. My car is 'USUALLY' charge in the morning.

2) The range is about 320 miles per charge in the warm months (June, July, August). Tesla still reports 320 in the middle of winter even though I actually only get 150.

3) I've had many days that I'm glad that the pandemic happened and I have the ability to work remotely any time I want. Forget to plug in the car at night and start the next day with fake 200 miles range. I'm not risky enough to drive 50 miles at -20 degrees and hope i make it home.

4) From 7th grade physics, if you want to make an efficient vehicle, you make it light. My Model X weighs somewhere around 5500 lbs. BTW: most full size trucks are much lighter than that.

5) Charging at night works great, but there aren't any alternative energy sources that generate electricity at night. Solar doesn't work at all at night and the wind usually dies at night.

6) Tesla supercharging is great and free (I have unlimited, lifetime charging). Other vehicles it's going to take a long time to build up their network.

7) When we first get a network built up, price gouging is going to be the norm. When you are down to 50 miles charge and the next charging station is 100 miles away, you have to pay the troll, no matter what the price.

8) It's almost impossible for the current ICE manufacturers to close down their ICE lines. They are legally obligated to have to support their vehicles for a number of years. Watched an interesting youtube video on just shutting down one model of engine a few years ago. Took 5 years or so.

Just my $0.02

Mike

Thank you for the great summary from an owner.

I feel for some of your issues, and do believe they are the typical early adopter things most new technology has to deal with. I feel like you still like it.

And yes, despite all the rhetoric suggesting there are not going to be any ICE cars tomorrow, and implying EV supporters think they are perfect, the fact is EVs will be phased in over the next few decades. I am predicting 3 decades or 2050 or so for a mostly (90%) adoption.

Thanks again, good post.

[MDLNB]

EVs are priced for the upper middle class to upper class. Working class stiffs cannot afford them, no matter how much they can save in fuel cost. Apartment complexes are not going to be able to maintain charging stations due to space and security. Folks that live in cheap apartments won't be able to afford EVs.
This cannot be a matter of mandating one vs the other. We cannot mandate that folks convert to EV when it's going to disenfranchise a large group of folks. Things that are going to have to be addressed before pushing EVs are:
Initial cost of vehicle
Availability and convenience of charging stations
Time to charge vehicle
Cost to charge vehicle
Cost to replace batteries
Using EVs in cold winter climates and hot summer climates(longevity of a charge)
Recycling batteries (how are the chemicals disposed of)
Materials for constructing batteries (country of origin)
Is the power grid capable of handling the load of future drain of mass EV charging (ie.at night?)
Cost, Cost, Cost, and Cost. Does the future cost savings of fuel outweigh the immediate cost of purchase?

[Blackbird45]

Repeatedly the issue of cost keeps coming up. If you live in TV you might have noticed Corvettes, Farries, Jaguars none going over 30MPH . Motorcycles darned with everything short of a bed and Golfcart so pimped up it's beyond belief. I think in TV a cost of an EV is not a factor.

[EHS210]

Repeatedly the issue of cost keeps coming up. If you live in TV you might have noticed Corvettes, Farries, Jaguars none going over 30MPH . Motorcycles darned with everything short of a bed and Golfcart so pimped up it's beyond belief. I think in TV a cost of an EV is not a factor.

This could win “Best Post of the Day”

[OhioBuckeye]

Like I said buy one if you want, hope you have a good experience. Just do your own homework & read all the Pro’s & Con’s. For a start they’ll have to put up new power grids to handle millions of charging cars, didn’t think of that huh! Not hear to argue, because it seems like everyone knows, & they’re not on the market, basicly not yet, just Tesla! Have a nice day.������

[MartinSE]

What you say is true but consumers will still be able to vote with their feet. The question to me is will consumers be willing to pay the extra initial costs of EVs?

Time will tell.

That question has been answered, in that consumers are so willing that they are backordered a year.

Bringing out my crystal ball, and based on almost every auto manufacturer jumping into the pool (I assume they checked for water first) I would say prices are going to go DOWN just like every other expensive new technology does as mass production kicks in.

So, the real question is WHEN a consumer wants to jump in, not if. But, that when could easily be 30 years from now. That is up to consumers, not me or anyone else to FORCE them into buying.

[MartinSE]

I paid 10k for that feature in my Model X. Now 2.5 years later I'm hoping i get to see it before I get rid of my car.

That is in fact ONE of the reasons I am waiting, but from what I have been seeing/reading I don't think I really need FSD, what it has now seems to be pretty close.

What features of FSD are you waiting for? Hands off?

[MartinSE]

Repeatedly the issue of cost keeps coming up. If you live in TV you might have noticed Corvettes, Farries, Jaguars none going over 30MPH . Motorcycles darned with everything short of a bed and Golfcart so pimped up it's beyond belief. I think in TV a cost of an EV is not a factor.

Thank you - LOL. I think Uh Duh, is somewhat appropriate.

But, I will say, Tesla is priced as HIGH as Tesla thinks they can price it and still sell them. They seem to have guessed right (or possibly a little low - they seem to be leaving some money on the table), since they are backordered. It is perfectly normal for a new high end product to be priced high. That is how the company expands to upgrade its mass production.

And I used to find it so frustrating (but now just find it humorous), how so many demand over and over that a product that is 100 years old with international mass manufacturing and massive spinoff support products that are highly refined be compared to a product that is a decade old and still growing, and no where near mass marketing and no real international production yet. Uh Duh, the existing product will almost always win in every comparison. Duh. But, every day that comparison slips a little more in favor of EVs.

And even more so, use cases are evolving. Musk is frequently talking about how once EVs are established and FSD is available he is considering not selling Teslas, but instead starting a Robotaxi company. If it is what he suggests, I for one am ALL IN. The concept, if I understand it correctly is to operate like a time share. Basically you pay a monthly (hourly, daily, annual) rental for using the "taxi". When you want to go someplace, you summons a car using your cell phone and in 5 or 10 minutes it arrives, takes you to your destination, drops you off and goes and charges while waiting for another summons. You will be able to schedule cars to pick you up at specified times, say you have a doctors appointment, or want to go to a show, etc. There will be changing stations in each service area and the number of floating cars will be determine by usage.

I am ALL IN on that. No paying $30K to $50K up front for a vehicle to sit in my garage 90% of the time. No maintenance, no insurance, just summons a car when I want it, and it is maintained, charged and ready whenever I want it.

That idea would also make a HUGE difference in the number of cars required to serve everyone. Which results is a massive reduction in the number of batteries recycled every year, which results in a massive reduction in the rare minerals required to make batteries. I have no idea HOW many cars would be required to do this, but even if it was only a reduction in half, that is 150 million cars we don't have to build and power.

Obviously this will not work for everyone. I lived on acreage about 15 minutes from a tiny town (Live Oak, population about 3,000). I would not have been happy waiting 30 minutes for a car to arrive. So, I would not have been a potential Customer then. But, here in TV, I would jump on the beta of that project!

The next 3 to 5 years are going to see a LOT of EVs enter the market. There are a LOT of issues to be resolved. They will be resolved as they are discovered.

[MartinSE]

Like I said buy one if you want, hope you have a good experience. Just do your own homework & read all the Pro’s & Con’s. For a start they’ll have to put up new power grids to handle millions of charging cars, didn’t think of that huh! Not hear to argue, because it seems like everyone knows, & they’re not on the market, basicly not yet, just Tesla! Have a nice day.������

uh, yeah, actually EVERYONE is thinking of that. And the most popular solution is distributed (decentralized) power production. The type is dependent on your location. Here it most likely would be roof solar tiles and a power bank of batteries at home. But, that is a problem that is really a long time off in the future - at least a decade, (current admin estimate that I think is a bit optimistic) more likely 20 years from now.

So, we have 20 years to fix the issues. But, that will not be enough time unless we start. And that is what we are doing, starting, and those that want it NOW are paying a premium, as they do with all new toys.

[MartinSE]

My car is 2 years old; I'm holding out to 2024 and will switch to an EV. I'm up there in age and what I'm hoping for is a level 5 self driving car. I'd like to ride in one before I'm in the back of one on my way to Forest Lawn

I am so with you. And I am past ready to stop driving (my wife side has fingernail marks in all the leather - LOL!)

I am 72, I am certain that by 80 I will HAVE to have a FSD car to get around. I would prefer one in the net year or two. I think that FSD will be a major change that will give so many elderly more freedom to get around.

[Stu from NYC]

That question has been answered, in that consumers are so willing that they are backordered a year.

Bringing out my crystal ball, and based on almost every auto manufacturer jumping into the pool (I assume they checked for water first) I would say prices are going to go DOWN just like every other expensive new technology does as mass production kicks in.

So, the real question is WHEN a consumer wants to jump in, not if. But, that when could easily be 30 years from now. That is up to consumers, not me or anyone else to FORCE them into buying.

Not so sure prices will go down, the materials going into a battery might skyrocket as rare earth metals are now produced in only a handful of countries most of them not exactly friendly.

[MartinSE]

What people don't stop and think about is...."where does electricity come from?" You have to have power to make power and that comes from (gasp) oil!!! Also what to do with ALL those batteries when you want to throw them out? Not too "green" now. Wouldn't be enough charging stations to serve all who can afford to buy these things. I'll stick with my "gas-driven" car!!

Okay,

1. Very little electricity is generated using OIL, less than 1%. But, you point is still valid, Because a very large percentage of electricity is produced using Coal - really bad pollution source (about 800,000 Americans die every year from coal pollution). The good news in Coal is being retired. Plants are retired every year, and are being replace with alternative forms of electricity production. On one day recently I think Wind beat Coat. So, that is coming along.

2. Batteries are NOT thrown out, they are recycled. At least Tesla is recycling (most?) and working to reach 100%

3. There are plenty of charging stations at this time for the EV owners. Tesla will produce 1 million more EVs this year and maybe 2 million next year. They are racing to add more charging stations to keep up with that. The current administration has just passed a bipartisan bill to put $5 billion into a build out of charging stations along all the major freeways over the next few years. So, that will help a lot.

4. Tesla is a NEW toy (high tech product) and as such they are charging as much as possible for them to fund growth. Even so, they "guessed" wrong how much they could charge, since they are constantly backordered (they can't keep up with demand). Once all the other companies start rolling out EVs the price will plummet (me and my crystal ball says so - lol. We will see).

Absolutely, you should not run out and buy an EV if you are not comfortable buying something at a premium price that has not got all the bugs worked out yet. That is a smart move, let others pay the premium and do the testing. I agree. There a plenty with money burning a hole in their pockets that are will to do the testing for you and me.

[MDLNB]

Repeatedly the issue of cost keeps coming up. If you live in TV you might have noticed Corvettes, Farries, Jaguars none going over 30MPH . Motorcycles darned with everything short of a bed and Golfcart so pimped up it's beyond belief. I think in TV a cost of an EV is not a factor.


Who said only the folks in TV would be buying EVs?
The average person that retires, may not be able to afford to live in TV, let alone purchase an EV. Wow, no one is talking about just the "Bubble."
I said that most folks that are working and/or living in an apartment might not be able to purchase an EV. That is why we will continue with the fossil fuel autos for a very long time. We won't be able to discontinue building ICE vehicles, just because a bunch of tree huggers think that it will save the planet. I can't understand why our country has become such a bunch of non-compromising, blankety, blank thick skull problem children. We can have both, and it will not destroy the world. Falsely raising the price of gasoline in hopes of making folks purchase EVs or attempting to ban ICE vehicles in ten years is not going to endear the folks to the idea of moving to a more expensive means of transportation. When an EV cost more than a mortgage for some folks or rent, how is that going to help the lower earners? Do we now disregard all but the wealthy and say "tough cookies" get a better job?

[MartinSE]

Not so sure prices will go down, the materials going into a battery might skyrocket as rare earth metals are now produced in only a handful of countries most of them not exactly friendly.

I certainly can not disagree with you. Tesla is the worlds largest battery producer, and they can not keep up with their own needs. That is their major advantage BTW over all the other manufacturers. I don't think any of the big guys make batteries yet, I think GM (maybe?) just announced a deal with Panasonic for batteries)

I do think in the next 10 years when EVs are mass produced all over the world we will have to have a new technology to power them. I have no idea what that might be - Maybe Tesla's (the scientist, not the car) idea of RF distribution of electricity (doubtful, but fun to think about everyones hair standing on end.). Maybe micro-nukes? Dunno, lots of work in that area. I think the silver bullet would be some form of power generation onboard the car (again micro-nuke maybe) is the best solution, since it solves the charging issues. Oh and of course the idea of renting batteries instead of buying them, but there are a lot of "social" issues - many people will not like trading their brand new batteries for used ones. But, it is certainly a way forward that solves the charging time, you can swap batteries in 5 minutes.

But, I think we can grow at least 5 years maybe/hopefully 10 before batteries are replaced.

So, yeah, it may end up that the cars are dirt cheap, but the batteries cost a fortune.

[MartinSE]

Who said only the folks in TV would be buying EVs?
The average person that retires, may not be able to afford to live in TV, let alone purchase an EV. Wow, no one is talking about just the "Bubble."
I said that most folks that are working and/or living in an apartment might not be able to purchase an EV. That is why we will continue with the fossil fuel autos for a very long time. We won't be able to discontinue building ICE vehicles, just because a bunch of tree huggers think that it will save the planet. I can't understand why our country has become such a bunch of non-compromising, blankety, blank thick skull problem children. We can have both, and it will not destroy the world. Falsely raising the price of gasoline in hopes of making folks purchase EVs or attempting to ban ICE vehicles in ten years is not going to endear the folks to the idea of moving to a more expensive means of transportation. When an EV cost more than a mortgage for some folks or rent, how is that going to help the lower earners? Do we now disregard all but the wealthy and say "tough cookies" get a better job?

Okay, I gotta call you on that one. WHO is calling for ICE cars to be banned in 10 years?

And you are stuck saying what EVs cost today most people can not afford. That is a GOOD thing. There are 300 million ICE vehicles in America alone. Tesla is making 1 million cars per year (this year) and hopes to make 2Million next year, that means we could replace all those in ONLY 150 years.

So, please, no one is suggesting we can replace 300 million cars in 10 years. Even with all the other manufactures jumping on board, most are years from production, and certainly can not phase out ICE cars in less than a decade and that would be an amazingly fast product change over.

So, once again, other than some Youtube video, WHO in power to do so, is suggesting we ban ICE cars in 10 years.

[Speedie]

These are all the same types of issues that faced the move to internal combustion, and they were "solved", mostly in bad ways. Hopefully this time it's done more thoughtfully, but I'm not holding my breath on that front. But, the train has left the station - in 10 (maybe 15) years you will not be able to buy a new gas powered auto.

After fall of 22 the crazy train will be derailed. America has plenty of low cost oil for the next 100 years at least.

[JMintzer]

Alternate fuel cars are coming, you can argue about the batteries, their price, the longevity of the vehicle, how long today's owners keep their cars, the charging time, on and on.

At the end the consumer will determine how fast gas cars will fade out. A good barometer to focus on is how much money all the car companies are investing in the EV future. Remember before 1900, horses still dominated the mode of transportation in this country, and we all have to admit things are moving a lot faster today.

Whatever problems these vehicles are facing today will work its way out, as long as there is a profit at the end someone will come up with a solution. No matter how much wants to hold onto the past you cannot stop the future.

Problem is, the gubmint keeps mucking things up with mandates...

[JMintzer]

Afraid to keep car pass 3 years, same difference.

Nothing close to the same thing...

[Stu from NYC]

Problem is, the gubmint keeps mucking things up with mandates...

Yes the market works best when the govt interferes least.

[MartinSE]

Yes the market works best when the govt interferes least.

Just a few that come to mind:

Human Genome Project
Ellis Island
Panama Canal
Elementary and Secondary school system
Hoover Dam
Post Office
GI Bill 1944
DARPA
Apollo Program
Marshal Plan - 1948
Interstate Highway System
NASA - Landing on the moon - uncounted numbers of spin-off that are used everyday.

Not saying those are still wonderful, but for decades we outperformed the world in almost every area. Countries around the world came to the US to learn how we setup our public school system, our post office, our space program, et al...

Around 1970 it seems to me is when things started going sideways, and has not so slowly gone down hill since then, until we are here, where Congress votes against their own constituents best interest over 90% of the time and votes in favor of big money interests.

And today, there is only money - everything is about how much of the governments teat each company can suck on. IMNSHO - the only thing to save us is a complete overhaul that gets the vast amount of money given to companies out of the government. Go back to funding areas that are too big for a company to handle, and once started step back and let capitalism run it.

Oh, and for my conservative friends, I also would like to see a complete overhaul of our disaster "welfare" (handout) system. I would like to see changes that would include Universal Basic Income (replace all handouts), Universal Healthcare, and no cost public education k-college or k-apprentice programs. After all I believe in a hand up to those that need it, not a hand out.

[Topspinmo]

Nothing close to the same thing...

Opinion, you have you’re and I have mine.

Why we get second opinion’s. My opinion electric vehicles for professionals best thing since sliced bread. All the got to remember is plug it in. O wait the tires still need air when warning light blinks, but where are the valve stems and where do I get air? where does the windshield wiper fluid go…… all highly technical processes. Where the handyman?

[JMintzer]

Just a few that come to mind:

Human Genome Project
Ellis Island
Panama Canal
Elementary and Secondary school system
Hoover Dam
Post Office
GI Bill 1944
DARPA
Apollo Program
Marshal Plan - 1948
Interstate Highway System
NASA - Landing on the moon - uncounted numbers of spin-off that are used everyday.

Not saying those are still wonderful, but for decades we outperformed the world in almost every area. Countries around the world came to the US to learn how we setup our public school system, our post office, our space program, et al...

Around 1970 it seems to me is when things started going sideways, and has not so slowly gone down hill since then, until we are here, where Congress votes against their own constituents best interest over 90% of the time and votes in favor of big money interests.

And today, there is only money - everything is about how much of the governments teat each company can suck on. IMNSHO - the only thing to save us is a complete overhaul that gets the vast amount of money given to companies out of the government. Go back to funding areas that are too big for a company to handle, and once started step back and let capitalism run it.

Oh, and for my conservative friends, I also would like to see a complete overhaul of our disaster "welfare" (handout) system. I would like to see changes that would include Universal Basic Income (replace all handouts), Universal Healthcare, and no cost public education k-college or k-apprentice programs. After all I believe in a hand up to those that need it, not a hand out.

Yes, those thing on the list define "the market"...:ohdear:

[Retiredsteve]

Right now Tesla offers a 8 year 100,000 battery warranty. Many folks claim to have over a million miles with slight battery degradation in charging. There is no car company in the world that will warranty anything over a 100,000 mile warranty on a engine( I believe). 900-1000 mile range per charge is probably just the beginning on range . I would bet in the next 5-10 years all manufacturers will hit this range if not further.
I'm betting most people who drove the Model T were complaining like most are here about new technology

[JMintzer]

Opinion, you have you’re and I have mine.

Why we get second opinion’s. My opinion electric vehicles for professionals best thing since sliced bread. All the got to remember is plug it in. O wait the tires still need air when warning light blinks, but where are the valve stems and where do I get air? where does the windshield wiper fluid go…… all highly technical processes. Where the handyman?

Yes, "professionals" are helpless when it comes to fixing anything...

Snob much?

[frose]

when coal and fossil fuels make electricity, the more they make the more pollution they make.. 900 miles at this time is not possible the technology is just not there yet.. electric rates will rival gas prices, it has to, until a way is found to make electric cheap and clean and china is not there yet. they are the one who will lead this and will be stuck with our thumbs up our buts trying to figure out what happened.. also where do you dispose of used up batteries.. great idea, just not ready yet.. this needs time to develop.

[MartinSE]

when coal and fossil fuels make electricity, the more they make the more pollution they make.. 900 miles at this time is not possible the technology is just not there yet.. electric rates will rival gas prices, it has to, until a way is found to make electric cheap and clean and china is not there yet. they are the one who will lead this and will be stuck with our thumbs up our buts trying to figure out what happened.. also where do you dispose of used up batteries.. great idea, just not ready yet.. this needs time to develop.

Batteries are not thrown away, don't know where you are hearing that, but they are recycled.

EV cost per mile for electricity is already less expensive that gas for an ICE.

Absolutely agree, coal pollution is very bad and coal is used for about 1/5 of the electricity generated in the US, natural gas - a MUCH cleaner source - is used for most. Coal is being retired as plants are decommissioned and replaced with cleaner plants using gas, wind and solar.

And last, actually China is lagging on EVs. Tesla leads the world right now. But, China's strength is they will launch a massive number of different vehicles testing the markets, figure out the optimum market right now and target it. The will catch up very fast.

[MDLNB]

Okay, I gotta call you on that one. WHO is calling for ICE cars to be banned in 10 years?

And you are stuck saying what EVs cost today most people can not afford. That is a GOOD thing. There are 300 million ICE vehicles in America alone. Tesla is making 1 million cars per year (this year) and hopes to make 2Million next year, that means we could replace all those in ONLY 150 years.

So, please, no one is suggesting we can replace 300 million cars in 10 years. Even with all the other manufactures jumping on board, most are years from production, and certainly can not phase out ICE cars in less than a decade and that would be an amazingly fast product change over.

So, once again, other than some Youtube video, WHO in power to do so, is suggesting we ban ICE cars in 10 years.


"Biden has set a goal of eliminating pollution from fossil fuel in the power sector by 2035 and from the U.S. economy overall by 2050.."
-------------
"SACRAMENTO – Governor Gavin Newsom today announced that he will aggressively move the state further away from its reliance on climate change-causing fossil fuels while retaining and creating jobs and spurring economic growth – he issued an executive order requiring sales of all new passenger vehicles to be zero-emission by 2035 and additional measures to eliminate harmful emissions from the transportation sector."
---------------
There's more, but I don't want to bore everyone.


Like I said, I have nothing against the EV industry. I am against eliminating or banning ICE vehicles. Until someone can produce transportation that EVERYONE can afford, the world needs fossil fuel. And pricing gasoline so high that the working Joe can't afford it, is not going to make the transition any easier.

I am not overly concerned with air pollution right now, considering we have better air quality now than when I was a kid. It is not a one idea or nothing. It is a combination of many different ideas to solve a problem of this sort. Why is it that some folks believe that there is only one way to solve air pollution?

[MartinSE]

"Biden has set a goal of eliminating pollution from fossil fuel in the power sector by 2035 and from the U.S. economy overall by 2050.."
-------------
"SACRAMENTO – Governor Gavin Newsom today announced that he will aggressively move the state further away from its reliance on climate change-causing fossil fuels while retaining and creating jobs and spurring economic growth – he issued an executive order requiring sales of all new passenger vehicles to be zero-emission by 2035 and additional measures to eliminate harmful emissions from the transportation sector."

And I don't see where there was any mandate to raise gas prices. Gas prices are raising all over the world. I don't think we did that.
---------------
There's more, but I don't want to bore everyone.


Like I said, I have nothing against the EV industry. I am against eliminating or banning ICE vehicles. Until someone can produce transportation that EVERYONE can afford, the world needs fossil fuel. And pricing gasoline so high that the working Joe can't afford it, is not going to make the transition any easier.

I am not overly concerned with air pollution right now, considering we have better air quality now than when I was a kid. It is not a one idea or nothing. It is a combination of many different ideas to solve a problem of this sort. Why is it that some folks believe that there is only one way to solve air pollution?

First, eliminating pollution from fossil fuel in the power sector has almost nothing to do with EVs, it is elimination of coat, gas, and oil from power plants.

Second, "he issued an executive order requiring sales of all new passenger vehicles to be zero-emission by 2035" does not say you have to buy EVs it says auto manufacturers have to reach net zero emissions by 2035 for all new passenger vehicles, that would not apply to step vans, dump trucks, etc. sales. If they can do it some other way, go for it.

It also doesn't ban the sale of used ICE vehicles. And that is 2% of the states. CA is always leading on progressive issues. And I support states rights.

[Stu from NYC]

First, eliminating pollution from fossil fuel in the power sector has almost nothing to do with EVs, it is elimination of coat, gas, and oil from power plants.

Second, "he issued an executive order requiring sales of all new passenger vehicles to be zero-emission by 2035" does not say you have to buy EVs it says auto manufacturers have to reach net zero emissions by 2035 for all new passenger vehicles, that would not apply to step vans, dump trucks, etc. sales. If they can do it some other way, go for it.

It also doesn't ban the sale of used ICE vehicles. And that is 2% of the states. CA is always leading on progressive issues. And I support states rights.

California is such a great place to live. Wonder why so many people are leaving?

[MartinSE]

California is such a great place to live. Wonder why so many people are leaving?

I am sure you know, why not share? I mean last I heard LA was a ghost town.

[Keefelane66]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SGN-Q5KRC8

Claiming 900 miles on charge. Now we’re talking!!! If affordable for masses?
It’s a start making EV vehicles (trucks, buses,cars) coming to Michigan this year already in Israel Great Britain Sweden. Similar to charging your wireless phone.
Please Wait... | Cloudflare (https://www.autoevolution.com/news/sweden-successfully-tests-wireless-charging-road-set-to-revolutionize-mobility-155137.html#:~:text=Recently%2C%20the%20company%20 has%20completed,by%20the%20Swedish%20smart%20road)

[MorTech]

A coal-fired power plant emits millions of times more radiation than a nuclear power plant. I bet nobody here knows that.

What is the energy density / volumetric density of that there sulfur battery? LOL.
I just don't want a 270kw bomb under my seat...but that's just me :)

Ever experience a li-on battery in thermal runaway?
Now they want to add sulfur to the bomb?

[MDLNB]

It’s a start making EV vehicles (trucks, buses,cars) coming to Michigan this year already in Israel Great Britain Sweden. Similar to charging your wireless phone.
Please Wait... | Cloudflare (https://www.autoevolution.com/news/sweden-successfully-tests-wireless-charging-road-set-to-revolutionize-mobility-155137.html#:~:text=Recently%2C%20the%20company%20 has%20completed,by%20the%20Swedish%20smart%20road)


Yes, because Israel, Britain and Sweden are such LARGE countries...:clap2:
In my opinion, while EVs are great for commuting within small areas, fossil fuel/gasoline and diesel won't be replaced by EVs in my lifetime. Unfortunately, fuel prices and lifestyles will suffer because of someone's grand scheme of forcing an unobtainable transition to batteries in such a short time-span.

Electricity may be the answer, but not with batteries that weigh hundreds of pounds in a car, that will cost thousands of dollars to replace. Appears that some folks are not looking after the little guy, but speak a great tale.

[Bay Kid]

Buy stock in electric provider companies. The price is sure to go up.

[Stu from NYC]

I am sure you know, why not share? I mean last I heard LA was a ghost town.

Can we start with very high taxes, ridiculously expensive real estate costs, lots of crime, not such a great place to live these days.

[MartinSE]

Can we start with very high taxes, ridiculously expensive real estate costs, lots of crime, not such a great place to live these days.

Okay, cost of living is reflected in higher wages, which drive up cost of living, and round and round that goes. I will agree it costs a bunch to live there, not a good place to retire, unless you are rich.

An advantage of living and working in CA is with higher wages for the same job as other places, when you retire you get higher SS payments. My wife, who comes from CA gets about 20% higher payments than I do and we were basically in the same field IT.

It is difficult to reconcile actual cost of living by comparing prices and wages. It would help if someone provided cost of typical items (food, gas, housing, etc) based on number of hours worked to pay for them. My 2 years in CA seem to show that while things cost more, the number of hours worked to pay for, say a loaf of bread, is about the same.

Crime, here is a recent crime survey 2022 - seems CA is about the same as Florida, and neither are near the top. You can draw you own conclusions about where are the highest crimes rates and highest homicide rates are - I already have a brownie point pending.

Highest crime rates:

District of Columbia
New Mexico
Alaska
Louisiana
South Carolina

Here are the 10 states with the highest homicide rates:

Louisiana (12.4 per 100,000 people)
Missouri (9.8 per 100,000 people)
Nevada (9.1 per 100,000 people)
Maryland (9 per 100,000 people)
Arkansas (8.6 per 100,000 people)
Alaska (8.4 per 100,000 people)
Alabama (8.3 per 100,000 people)
Mississippi (8.2 per 100,000 people)
Illinois (7.8 per 100,000 people)
South Carolina (7.8 per 100,000 people)

State Rankings Crime Rate byState (https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/crime-rate-by-state)

[MorTech]

Buy stock in electric provider companies. The price is sure to go up.

The biggest problem...NIMBY.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I think the biggest obstacle will be that most people do not have a garage for charging. There are millions of people who will not have access to a charging station.

It's not just that, but the administration has set a goal to become 100% electric by 2035. The fact that that will not change the over all emission output worldwide aside, how about the millions of people that are driving 25 year old cars that can't afford a new car? Is the plan for the government to buy cars for everyone that can't afford one?

Another issue is not simply access to charging stations but the length of time required to recharge. Are people going to be willing to wait for hours at a recharging station while they are filling up? Filling your car with gas take ten minutes. So far charging times for electrics are hours.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Okay, cost of living is reflected in higher wages, which drive up cost of living, and round and round that goes. I will agree it costs a bunch to live there, not a good place to retire, unless you are rich.

An advantage of living and working in CA is with higher wages for the same job as other places, when you retire you get higher SS payments. My wife, who comes from CA gets about 20% higher payments than I do and we were basically in the same field IT.

It is difficult to reconcile actual cost of living by comparing prices and wages. It would help if someone provided cost of typical items (food, gas, housing, etc) based on number of hours worked to pay for them. My 2 years in CA seem to show that while things cost more, the number of hours worked to pay for, say a loaf of bread, is about the same.

Crime, here is a recent crime survey 2022 - seems CA is about the same as Florida, and neither are near the top. You can draw you own conclusions about where are the highest crimes rates and highest homicide rates are - I already have a brownie point pending.

Highest crime rates:

District of Columbia
New Mexico
Alaska
Louisiana
South Carolina

Here are the 10 states with the highest homicide rates:

Louisiana (12.4 per 100,000 people)
Missouri (9.8 per 100,000 people)
Nevada (9.1 per 100,000 people)
Maryland (9 per 100,000 people)
Arkansas (8.6 per 100,000 people)
Alaska (8.4 per 100,000 people)
Alabama (8.3 per 100,000 people)
Mississippi (8.2 per 100,000 people)
Illinois (7.8 per 100,000 people)
South Carolina (7.8 per 100,000 people)

State Rankings Crime Rate byState (https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/crime-rate-by-state)

What's left out of crime stats by state is how localized the crime is. A huge percentage of the crime in Florida for example takes place in three or four big cities. There are thousands of square miles in Florida are are very safe. The Villages is in that category. The same could be said for most other states. Unless you live or work in St Louis you are probably very safe in Missouri.