The Developer Trying To Kill Spanish Springs?

[Jim 9922]

According to the "Other" news source, the Developer has submitted plans to reserve 14 parking spaces directly on the Square Area streets for the apartments to be built. Ten are across the front of the Patten Building, two across the street, directly on the square, and a couple along commercial areas. I think that is more than spaces reserved for handicapped.
What happened to "there is more than enough parking spaces behind the commercial buildings for apartment dwellers and daily users"? Who uses these reserved spaces when streets are closed for fairs, craft shows, and other events?
Looks like more than just the camel's nose is already inside the tent.

[tophcfa]

According to the "Other" news source, the Developer has submitted plans to reserve 14 parking spaces directly on the Square Area streets for the apartments to be built. Ten are across the front of the Patten Building, two across the street, directly on the square, and a couple along commercial areas. I think that is more than spaces reserved for handicapped.
What happened to "there is more than enough parking spaces behind the commercial buildings for apartment dwellers and daily users"? Who uses these reserved spaces when streets are closed for fairs, craft shows, and other events?
Looks like more than just the camel's nose is already inside the tent.

Hmmmm, you make a very good point. When the town square traffic is closed for events like the cruise in, holiday events and parades, market night, crafts fairs, farmers markets, etc….., the proposed parking spaces for the apartment dwellers would not be accessible. That certainly is reason to raise reasonable concerns about the future plans for the town square?

[Keefelane66]

Go to meet the Developer venue tickets are FREE. The Mores Family owns the Squares The Villages does not

[Topspinmo]

Should of built parking garage on top of KB. :icon_wink:I see more apartments throughout the empty commercial building north of 466.

I wouldn’t want park my vehicle around squares with privileged parking. Too great change get damaged unintentionally.

[Topspinmo]

Go to meet the Developer venue tickets are FREE. The Mores Family owns the Squares The Villages does not

Only if VHA member way I read it?

[tophcfa]

Go to meet the Developer venue tickets are FREE. The Mores Family owns the Squares The Villages does not

Is the event open to questions that get honest answers, or is it simply a dog and pony show?

[Stu from NYC]

Is the event open to questions that get honest answers, or is it simply a dog and pony show?

Good question.

Understand the need to make a profit but this does seem wrong.

[dewilson58]

Oh No, The Horror of it.

[champion6]

According to the "Other" news source, the Developer has submitted plans to reserve 14 parking spaces directly on the Square Area streets for the apartments to be built. Ten are across the front of the Patten Building, two across the street, directly on the square, and a couple along commercial areas. I think that is more than spaces reserved for handicapped.
What happened to "there is more than enough parking spaces behind the commercial buildings for apartment dwellers and daily users"? Who uses these reserved spaces when streets are closed for fairs, craft shows, and other events?
Looks like more than just the camel's nose is already inside the tent.Yes, this is step #1 for ending Spanish Spring Town Square. It is just the tip of the iceberg.

From the February 17, 2021 online news site:
"The Lady Lake Commission on Wednesday night voted 3-2 to turn down a plan for apartments at Spanish Springs Town Square.

"The Villages put on a Power Point presentation, led by attorney Jo Thacker, Tallahassee consultant Darrin Taylor and Villages Vice President Marty Dzuro, that lacked numbers and specifics and were not detailed enough for some commissioners.

"The Villages team painted an idyllic picture of what life would be like in up to 45 apartments on the second floors of four commercial buildings at Spanish Springs. The plan would include seven apartments at the former home of Katie Belle’s, the storied Villagers-only club named after founder of The Villages Harold Schwartz’s mother."

Now we learn the details of step #1: 7 apartments that will require 14 prime-location street parking spots, not parking-lot parking spots.

Future steps seem to be that 38 more apartments are planned and they will require 76 more prime-location parking spots.

It isn't hard to imagine that most of the on-street parking in Spanish Springs Town Square will eventually become reserved for apartment dwellers.

[champion6]

Go to meet the Developer venue tickets are FREE. The Mores Family owns the Squares The Villages does not

Is the event open to questions that get honest answers, or is it simply a dog and pony show?I have been to many of these meetings. Although each has been very interesting, they are definitely a dog and pony show. None has ever included a Q&A session.

[Bogie Shooter]

Not the right venue for Q & A……would turn into shouting pi$$ing contest.
Evidence as seen in the above posts……

[PugMom]

i hear so many say they are afraid spainsh springs is being ignored to rot, or forgotten by the developers for greener pastures. what if this is the beginning of a new & more inclusive spanish springs? i'd be interested to see if there are any plans of future development in/or around the town square, ie: larger spaces for recreation, more restaurants, available parking, walking trails & things of that nature. orange blossom is such a beautiful area, the scenery is ideal to what comes to mind when a person thinks of resort-style florida. :popcorn:

[Number 10 GI]

Is the event open to questions that get honest answers, or is it simply a dog and pony show?

Why don't you go to the presentation and give us a report?

[Stu from NYC]

I have been to many of these meetings. Although each has been very interesting, they are definitely a dog and pony show. None has ever included a Q&A session.

Oh well lost interest than.

[tophcfa]

Why don't you go to the presentation and give us a report?

See post #10 from champion6, you got your report.

[tophcfa]

Oh No, The Horror of it.

Actually, if you live in the area of SS and enjoy the various events at the square it is a very legitimate concern. Who in their right mind would rent an apartment with a parking spot where access to use your car would be periodically blocked for long periods of time? During the annual weekend crafts show in SS, the town square is closed for almost three full days.

The planned parking for the apartments and continuing business as usual in the town square seem to be at odds.

[dewilson58]

Actually, if you live in the area of SS and enjoy the various events at the square it is a very legitimate concern. Who in their right mind would rent an apartment with a parking spot where access to use your car would be periodically blocked for long periods of time? During the annual weekend crafts show in SS, the town square is closed for almost three full days.

The planned parking for the apartments and continuing business as usual in the town square seem to be at odds.

Not sure how "live in the area" is defined, but we go to SS for events and for dining......as we do all squares.

I don't feel the need to determine "who in their right mind"..........our free-market system will determine.

The landlord will have to determine how to communicate parking options to tenants.

:coolsmiley:

[shut the front door]

There are residents of the area who are already talking to attorneys.
The developer might lose another 44 million for screwing over the people who live in the north.

[Stu from NYC]

There are residents of the area who are already talking to attorneys.
The developer might lose another 44 million for screwing over the people who live in the north.

Will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

[BrianL99]

According to the "Other" news source, the Developer has submitted plans to reserve 14 parking spaces directly on the Square Area streets for the apartments to be built. Ten are across the front of the Patten Building, two across the street, directly on the square, and a couple along commercial areas. I think that is more than spaces reserved for handicapped.
What happened to "there is more than enough parking spaces behind the commercial buildings for apartment dwellers and daily users"? Who uses these reserved spaces when streets are closed for fairs, craft shows, and other events?
Looks like more than just the camel's nose is already inside the tent.

I went to the District Office in Lake Sumter Landing this morning. The Square was packed at 10 a.m. It was tough to find a parking space and there were people everywhere.

On my way home from running some off campus errands, I returned through Spanish Springs, about 11 a.m. It was a Ghost Town. It was like one of those old Western movies ... I expected to see some tumbleweed, blowing down the road.

I'm fairly new to TV, but it doesn't take a brain surgeon, to see that the Square is hurting and is due for an upgrade and change of "theme". Unfortunately, it doesn't look like the Developer is willing to invest sufficient capital to completely change the outdated theme and perhaps concerned another theme wouldn't blend with the "outskirts of town"?

Personally, think a San Francisco theme would be comparatively less capital intensive and would be reasonable consistent with the surrounding area.

[dewilson58]

Personally, think a San Francisco theme would be comparatively less capital intensive and would be reasonable consistent with the surrounding area.
:1rotfl::1rotfl:
Won't find many who would like a taste of California.

[tophcfa]

There are residents of the area who are already talking to attorneys.
The developer might lose another 44 million for screwing over the people who live in the north.

The tale of three Villages. The folks in the southern area are waiting for stuff to be built, the folks in the northern area are hoping the stuff that already has been built won’t continue to be torn down or repurposed, and the folks in the center area are currently as content as a clam during high tide.

[MartinSE]

Finally another thread about hating the developers. I was starting to feel something was wrong.

I see lots of mights and could be's. Some "sounds reasonable"s. And a suggestion of another $44M lawsuit. But, no actual facts. There was a town hula meeting that refuse permit to build some apartments. Okay, but if they can't build the apartments why would they want the parking places? And why would someone rent an apartment and not have a parking place that is acceptable?

So many complaints...

[dewilson58]

There are residents of the area who are already talking to attorneys. The developer might lose another 44 million for screwing over the people who live in the north.

The "residents of the area" should put their money where their whiney mouths are and open their own unprofitable Katie Butts.

Poor Me.

[Stu from NYC]

Why would anyone expect the square to be crowded all day long?

Busy in the morning than lunchtime than early evening thru dinner time.

What is wrong with that.

The problem is that some of us who cannot walk very far will be faced with longer walks to venues and not sure that is fair.

[Bogie Shooter]

The "residents of the area" should put their money where their whiney mouths are and open their own unprofitable Katie Butts.

Poor Me.

Wait till the judge, in a lawsuit, asks them, “show me where you were promised………….
BTW, where did the sales center go, that was a well decorated place, I miss that. Can I join the lawsuit?:ohdear:

[rcpds]

I don't know who's making the decisions on Spanish Springs environment but he/she/they are not considering the residents that frequent SS. They're only interested in their bonus' for making SS more profitable immediately. The reserved parking plan is definitely f....ed up. If you feel you're adversely impacted, show up at the Lady Lake Town Hall, Monday May 2th at 6pm with "Save Spanish Springs" signs.

[Babubhat]

It’s past it’s prime. Needs to be redeveloped. Beyond bowling nothing of interest there. At least you can shop and dine on 27/441

[dewilson58]

It’s past it’s prime. Needs to be redeveloped.

Yepper.

But there are a few Old Dogs that don't like new tricks.

:eclipsee_gold_cup:

[Mleeja]

I am “ok” with apartments. The buildings belong to the Developer and they can do what they want. If renters of the apartments don’t know there is entertainment every night on the square, shame on them. It is like the people who buy next to the turnpike and then complain about the traffic noise! But I digress… I seem to recall that when in Katie Belle’s you could not here the music from the outside. Somewhere along the road, the buildings were very well insulated for sound. Also, no one has considered that potential renters may do so to be close to the entertainment.

However! Taking parking spaces away from the square is totally unacceptable! The streets around the square are public streets. There are plenty of spaces behind the building. I am guessing the Developer want these spaces due to the main entrance and elevator is on the square side of the building. It will “save” them money.

It could also be a negotiation tactic. Give up the request for parking in return for approval of the overall project. If they really what to take these spaces on the square then that flips me to “nay” for the entire project. Let them go build apartments at Hacienda…

[billethkid]

methinks there may be a little bit of making a banquet out of a ham sandwich!!

[Papa_lecki]

I don't know who's making the decisions on Spanish Springs environment but he/she/they are not considering the residents that frequent SS. They're only interested in their bonus' for making SS more profitable immediately. The reserved parking plan is definitely f....ed up. If you feel you're adversely impacted, show up at the Lady Lake Town Hall, Monday May 2th at 6pm with "Save Spanish Springs" signs.

If the commercial property was profitable, nothing would happen to the space.

There doesn’t seem to be a huge demand from tenants. Likely because of all the development along 441 - so many options. Not really an issue along 466/466A/44.

[Stu from NYC]

methinks there may be a little bit of making a banquet out of a ham sandwich!!

Huh???

[Number 10 GI]

"The Developer Trying To Kill Spanish Springs"? Please explain how it will benefit the developer to kill Spanish Springs. Makes no sense to me but maybe someone can draw a color picture explanation. If anything it is the Villagers who are killing the town square by not patronizing the businesses that are there.

Research how cities are trying to revitalize downtown areas. These studies have shown that for the downtown area of a city to survive is that there need to be people living in the downtown to patronize the businesses. The downtown area of Nashville, Tennessee used to be a ghost town after 5:00PM when all the office workers quit for the day. A developer realized the opportunity and built a high rise apartment building right in the downtown and all of a sudden more stores opened in previously vacant buildings. Since then more condos and apartment buildings have been built and a whole lot of people are patronizing the downtown businesses and many new businesses have opened. Lots of people like to live where the "action" is and being right on the square appeals to them. Just because you wouldn't like it doesn't mean others feel that way.

As to the comment that after 11:00 PM Spanish Springs is totally empty, so are the other town squares. This is a community of old folks and most of us can't or don't want to party much after 10:00PM.

Had another thought. My understanding is the second floor of these building were originally set up for businesses but apparently there wasn't enough customer support by Villagers to patronize potential business people renting the space. So is the developer supposed to suck it up and eat the revenue loss? That sounds like great business advice.

So many wannabe financial and community development experts on this forum.

[kkingston57]

i hear so many say they are afraid spainsh springs is being ignored to rot, or forgotten by the developers for greener pastures. what if this is the beginning of a new & more inclusive spanish springs? i'd be interested to see if there are any plans of future development in/or around the town square, ie: larger spaces for recreation, more restaurants, available parking, walking trails & things of that nature. orange blossom is such a beautiful area, the scenery is ideal to what comes to mind when a person thinks of resort-style florida. :popcorn:

We go to Spanish Springs 1-3X a week. There is not any open space for new development.

[Stu from NYC]

"The Developer Trying To Kill Spanish Springs"? Please explain how it will benefit the developer to kill Spanish Springs. Makes no sense to me but maybe someone can draw a color picture explanation. If anything it is the Villagers who are killing the town square by not patronizing the businesses that are there.

Research how cities are trying to revitalize downtown areas. These studies have shown that for the downtown area of a city to survive is that there need to be people living in the downtown to patronize the businesses. The downtown area of Nashville, Tennessee used to be a ghost town after 5:00PM when all the office workers quit for the day. A developer realized the opportunity and built a high rise apartment building right in the downtown and all of a sudden more stores opened in previously vacant buildings. Since then more condos and apartment buildings have been built and a whole lot of people are patronizing the downtown businesses and many new businesses have opened. Lots of people like to live where the "action" is and being right on the square appeals to them. Just because you wouldn't like it doesn't mean others feel that way.

As to the comment that after 11:00 PM Spanish Springs is totally empty, so are the other town squares. This is a community of old folks and most of us can't or don't want to party much after 10:00PM.

Had another thought. My understanding is the second floor of these building were originally set up for businesses but apparently there wasn't enough customer support by Villagers to patronize potential business people renting the space. So is the developer supposed to suck it up and eat the revenue loss? That sounds like great business advice.

So many wannabe financial and community development experts on this forum.

Just reread that comment it was after 11 am not pm.

[MartinSE]

Yepper.

But there are a few Old Dogs that don't like new tricks.

:eclipsee_gold_cup:

Well, I think there are a few old dogs that just hate the developers. And they seem to have moved here so they could constantly point out how the devs are a bunch of lying criminals. Why else would so many that hate this place so much stay?

It is almost fun to watch it go from, "Are they trying to close SS?" to suppositions that, They don't care about residents they just want to make their bonuses.

[tc1963]

So is the developer supposed to suck it up and eat the revenue loss?


I don't think the developers are suffering by having to eat canned tuna and government cheese! They have plenty of $$$.

[Number 10 GI]

I don't think the developers are suffering by having to eat canned tuna and government cheese! They have plenty of $$$.

Yep, you got it, they have plenty of $$$. Doesn't mean you have any claim to it. There are people living in cardboard boxes under bridges. They look at you living in the villages and believe that you have plenty of $$$, why don't you share it with them?

Envy, one of the seven deadly sins.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I'm opposed to the apartments in the former Katie Bell's building. In an ACTUAL village, where there's an active police presence (usually on foot patrol) and the majority of the shops are for locals rather than tourists, including a small grocery shop or bodega, it'd make sense to have apartments over the shops. Not just one building's worth, but many or even most. I've lived in a village, I've visited friends who've lived in villages or village-like neighborhoods. None of them had just 7-10 apartments over a single building, with no police presence, no assigned off-street parking for residents, no children, no playgrounds, no schools in walking distance.

The Villages Town Square is a tourist area. It's a facade, where visitors can buy overpriced resort-wear at 50% off, making it only somewhat overpriced instead of ridiculously overpriced. And live music every night, weather permitting. With twice-monthly "events" that shut down street parking around the square for many hours each day of the event. It's not suited for residential units.

That's not hate for the developers. It's just pragmatism. Either it's going to be a poor business decision which will harm the facade and turn it into something completely different than what it was designed to be, thus alienating anyone who DOES live in the area and enjoys it...

or it's an intentional business decision to turn it into something completely different from what it was designed to be.

The building that currently houses the MVP fitness center was initially intended to be a small hotel. I think that actually would've been an awesome idea. If that had happened, then there would be more sense in building apartments on the upper floors of the shops. That'd be the anchor of "people sleeping at the square" to justify it. But that never happened. The hotel is down the block from the Square, next to the townhouses.

Now that the theatre is closed with not even a hint that they might even consider maybe re-opening some day in the next decade, and Gator's Dockside is closing early every night because they can't find anyone who wants to work for them at the closing shift, the Square has lost some revenue overall. Reserving parking spaces on the street in front of the Katie Belle building will just drive even more people away. 7-10 apartment's worth of residents won't change that.

[champion6]

<snip> BTW, where did the sales center go, that was a well decorated place, I miss that. The Spanish Springs Sales Office is at 1120 Main St, corner of Main and Paige Pl.

[tc1963]

Yep, you got it, they have plenty of $$$. Doesn't mean you have any claim to it. There are people living in cardboard boxes under bridges. They look at you living in the villages and believe that you have plenty of $$$, why don't you share it with them?

Envy, one of the seven deadly sins.

ENVY yah right. "Doesn't mean you have any claim to it." NEVER said I did. "There are people living in cardboard boxes under bridges." Plenty of jobs available. Why don't they get a job, save some money, retire, so they can live in the Villages like most of us here have done! " Why don't you share it with them?" You have absolutely no clue what I do with the money I have earned and I do not need to justify it to YOU!

[banjobob]

The developer bullied Lady Lake by warning of extended litigation if they did not consent to this trafistary action. The developer would spend Lady Lake to insolvency by continued litigation if they did not comply. So what’s next another situation like La Hacienda county club , screw the residents let’s make money.

[La lamy]

Slightly off subject but I'm appalled at HOW LONG it has been for the freakin construction zone they've set up around the movie theater at SS to be dealt with. Why are they allowed to have an eyesore for YEARS, yet no home property can have a lawn ornament that may be offensive looking?!!

[dewilson58]

I don't think the developers are suffering by having to eat canned tuna and government cheese! They have plenty of $$$.

Clueless

[dewilson58]

"The Developer Trying To Kill Spanish Springs"? Please explain how it will benefit the developer to kill Spanish Springs. Makes no sense to me but maybe someone can draw a color picture explanation. If anything it is the Villagers who are killing the town square by not patronizing the businesses that are there.

Research how cities are trying to revitalize downtown areas. These studies have shown that for the downtown area of a city to survive is that there need to be people living in the downtown to patronize the businesses. The downtown area of Nashville, Tennessee used to be a ghost town after 5:00PM when all the office workers quit for the day. A developer realized the opportunity and built a high rise apartment building right in the downtown and all of a sudden more stores opened in previously vacant buildings. Since then more condos and apartment buildings have been built and a whole lot of people are patronizing the downtown businesses and many new businesses have opened. Lots of people like to live where the "action" is and being right on the square appeals to them. Just because you wouldn't like it doesn't mean others feel that way.

As to the comment that after 11:00 PM Spanish Springs is totally empty, so are the other town squares. This is a community of old folks and most of us can't or don't want to party much after 10:00PM.

Had another thought. My understanding is the second floor of these building were originally set up for businesses but apparently there wasn't enough customer support by Villagers to patronize potential business people renting the space. So is the developer supposed to suck it up and eat the revenue loss? That sounds like great business advice.

So many wannabe financial and community development experts on this forum.

:eclipsee_gold_cup:

A vocal few can't understand, or don't want to understand.

:icon_wink:

[thevillages2013]

Is the event open to questions that get honest answers, or is it simply a dog and pony show?

The newspaper says it’s definitely not!

[Nell57]

Slightly off subject but I'm appalled at HOW LONG it has been for the freakin construction zone they've set up around the movie theater at SS to be dealt with. Why are they allowed to have an eyesore for YEARS, yet no home property can have a lawn ornament that may be offensive looking?!!

When they can build a home in 90 days, you know it doesn’t take two years to update The Rialto.
Downtown workers says it’s being repurposed into a new use. With so many people staying home and watching movies, no need for three theaters in the area.
Hope the Morse Family addresses that at the Town Hall
Meeting.
No guarantee that they will always have craft fairs and car shows in SS.
That would be the other way to solve their problem.
Remember the parades we had….and were suddenly gone?

[Stu from NYC]

When they can build a home in 90 days, you know it doesn’t take two years to update The Rialto.
Downtown workers says it’s being repurposed into a new use. With so many people staying home and watching movies, no need for three theaters in the area.
Hope the Morse Family addresses that at the Town Hall
Meeting.
No guarantee that they will always have craft fairs and car shows in SS.
That would be the other way to solve their problem.
Remember the parades we had….and were suddenly gone?

Do not see the Rialto showing movies again thinking they kind of know what they want to do with the property but waiting for the right moment but would not be surprised more apartments if they find they can get it zoned and sold.

The idea of apartments does not bother me but the loss of quite a few parking spots does. As we get older will get harder and harder to go to SS and walk some distance for dinner or music.

[JMintzer]

The developer bullied Lady Lake by warning of extended litigation if they did not consent to this trafistary action. The developer would spend Lady Lake to insolvency by continued litigation if they did not comply. So what’s next another situation like La Hacienda county club , screw the residents let’s make money.

"trafistary"??? :confused::confused::confused:

[hosegooseman]

According to the "Other" news source, the Developer has submitted plans to reserve 14 parking spaces directly on the Square Area streets for the apartments to be built. Ten are across the front of the Patten Building, two across the street, directly on the square, and a couple along commercial areas. I think that is more than spaces reserved for handicapped.
What happened to "there is more than enough parking spaces behind the commercial buildings for apartment dwellers and daily users"? Who uses these reserved spaces when streets are closed for fairs, craft shows, and other events?
Looks like more than just the camel's nose is already inside the tent.

Well at least there’s a different story/perspective in today’s newspaper. We will see…😎

[daca55]

Slightly off subject but I'm appalled at HOW LONG it has been for the freakin construction zone they've set up around the movie theater at SS to be dealt with. Why are they allowed to have an eyesore for YEARS, yet no home property can have a lawn ornament that may be offensive looking?!!

You make a good point. Over where I live they have been going after a guy and fining him because he has a little white cross in his yard. It’s the old saying, do as I say not as I do.
Bob

[Stu from NYC]

"trafistary"??? :confused::confused::confused:

Well you know what happens if they go all "Trafistary" on this. All I can say now is the results will not be pretty.

[OhioBuckeye]

Personally I don’t think you have any control what goes on in TV unless you’re on the board of directors. Sounds like you’re you’re just a resident that just owns a home there. When we lived there 3 yrs. ago I never heard any complaining about anything like this. Now it seems like everyday someone is complaining about a neighbor, noise’s, golf coarse complains, or someone wanting something changed to satisfy them. All I can tell you, just park somewhere else. Sorry!

[JMintzer]

Well you know what happens if they go all "Trafistary" on this. All I can say now is the results will not be pretty.

https://i.gifer.com/5OG.gif

[Dgodin]

Go to meet the Developer venue tickets are FREE. The Mores Family owns the Squares The Villages does not

Who owns Spanish Springs square?
Buildings (developer?)
Steeets (Lady Lake?)
Center square area (developer?)

Residents are stakeholders in the square as it affects property values. The cost of a house in the villages is more expensive because of amenities like the square (even though it is open tonthe public).

[MartinSE]

"trafistary"??? :confused::confused::confused:

Everything in live is temporary.

[MartinSE]

It does seem that no one is talking about if property owned by the developers (I assume this is, if not, the entire conversation makes no sense) should not be allowed to be repurposed if the developers are not making as much money as they would like to from that property.

For people that seem to enjoy capitalism, that enjoyment only extends to what they think a company should do?

[MandoMan]

I went to the District Office in Lake Sumter Landing this morning. The Square was packed at 10 a.m. It was tough to find a parking space and there were people everywhere.

On my way home from running some off campus errands, I returned through Spanish Springs, about 11 a.m. It was a Ghost Town. It was like one of those old Western movies ... I expected to see some tumbleweed, blowing down the road.

I'm fairly new to TV, but it doesn't take a brain surgeon, to see that the Square is hurting and is due for an upgrade and change of "theme". Unfortunately, it doesn't look like the Developer is willing to invest sufficient capital to completely change the outdated theme and perhaps concerned another theme wouldn't blend with the "outskirts of town"?

Personally, think a San Francisco theme would be comparatively less capital intensive and would be reasonable consistent with the surrounding area.

With respect, I think Spanish Springs is beautifully maintained, and the theme is not “due for an upgrade.” I’m at the various town squares quite frequently, and I think they are all kept up the same, and that is at a high level. I assume you are joking about “a San Francisco theme” in Florida. Would that mean, say, bringing in a thousand homeless junkies to keep the benches warm? Spanish-style architecture does at least point to a very distant Spanish colonial past in Florida, and it fits in well with our natural greenery. I applaud the Morse family for developing The Villages in a consistent and beautiful way. I do wish they’d be more forthcoming about some of their plans and perhaps respond to questions in Talk of the Villages.

[Bilyclub]

It does seem that no one is talking about if property owned by the developers (I assume this is, if not, the entire conversation makes no sense) should not be allowed to be repurposed if the developers are not making as much money as they would like to from that property.
For people that seem to enjoy capitalism, that enjoyment only extends to what they think a company should do?

There was a development agreement between the developer and Lady Lake that suited the developer well when Lady Lake rubber stamped everything. When Lady Lake voted against the apartments the developer conveniently started pulling out of agreements and contracts with Lady Lake. If the streets are public the developer knows there is no way Lady Lake is approving assigned spots for apartment renters on public streets. The developer is working on an angle with this move.

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

The people talking about the slow death of Spanish Springs and how the family is killing it are probably the same ones going to the target or Walmart or the 50 or so restaurants that are close by . The developer is at least trying to shake up the square , what are the big ideas from people posting ? I know, bring back Katie Bells , the place was an advertisement for the developer, which I suspect never made much money except for a time when non residents were allowed in . I remember even in its golden years seeing little nips of alcohol in the trash in bathroom

[Buckeye Bob]

Go to meet the Developer venue tickets are FREE. The Mores Family owns the Squares The Villages does not

You have to be a member of the VHA to get a ticket; why can’t anyone who lives in the Villages get a ticket? VHA promotes the developer.

[Chi-Town]

Check the Daily Sun today. Spanish Springs is "vibrant". The Sharon, Cruise-ins, and apartments are the reason why. Who could ask for more?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Check the Daily Sun today. Spanish Springs is "vibrant". The Sharon, Cruise-ins, and apartments are the reason why. Who could ask for more?

The truth might be more than anyone could ask for?

There are no apartments in Spanish Springs Town Square right now. So - apartments can't possibly be the cause of the vibrancy of Spanish Springs.

[Culvers2Villages]

According to the "Other" news source, the Developer has submitted plans to reserve 14 parking spaces directly on the Square Area streets for the apartments to be built. Ten are across the front of the Patten Building, two across the street, directly on the square, and a couple along commercial areas. I think that is more than spaces reserved for handicapped.
What happened to "there is more than enough parking spaces behind the commercial buildings for apartment dwellers and daily users"? Who uses these reserved spaces when streets are closed for fairs, craft shows, and other events?
Looks like more than just the camel's nose is already inside the tent.
The horse is out of the stall...
the developer will not stop!!
It is such a very sad, sad thing!!!

[golfing eagles]

The horse is out of the stall...
the developer will not stop!!
It is such a very sad, sad thing!!!

If only any of us knew the developers plans for that area. But we don't, it's all conjecture and speculation.

Where's Graciegirl when we need her?:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Stu from NYC]

It does seem that no one is talking about if property owned by the developers (I assume this is, if not, the entire conversation makes no sense) should not be allowed to be repurposed if the developers are not making as much money as they would like to from that property.

For people that seem to enjoy capitalism, that enjoyment only extends to what they think a company should do?

But when it affects the people who live here are we not entitled to voice our opinion?

[Stu from NYC]

Check the Daily Sun today. Spanish Springs is "vibrant". The Sharon, Cruise-ins, and apartments are the reason why. Who could ask for more?

We can all ask for more but the developer will do what he wants to do.

[zendog3]

We are children of the 60's. If you feel strongly, protest! Get a placard and stand in front of the developers presentation.

When they tried to put a wall to keep carts in the historic section, I went to the developers bank and told them I was taking my money out. The wall became a gate.

When you bought your place, it came with certain expectations, including parking spaces near the square. In putting apartments above the square, the developer is selling the new residents your parking spaces. If he wants the apartments to have reserved parking, he should be required to build a parking garage for them. Simple enough!

But remember, the developer don't play. Some folks who protested are headed for the pokey.

[Villages Kahuna]

If I was one of the retail tenants who rely on that parking, I’d be really unhappy. In this case it appears that the Developer intends to “re-purpose” Spanish Springs into something else. Less retail, no entertainment, even more apartments?

[jimjamuser]

According to the "Other" news source, the Developer has submitted plans to reserve 14 parking spaces directly on the Square Area streets for the apartments to be built. Ten are across the front of the Patten Building, two across the street, directly on the square, and a couple along commercial areas. I think that is more than spaces reserved for handicapped.
What happened to "there is more than enough parking spaces behind the commercial buildings for apartment dwellers and daily users"? Who uses these reserved spaces when streets are closed for fairs, craft shows, and other events?
Looks like more than just the camel's nose is already inside the tent.
Good to point that out. But, what was expected? We live in a bubble of maximum legitimized greed and avarice. Private citizens here have no control over their environment. We exist here on a "take it or leave it basis" - "the good with the bad". We are one or 2 steps above Russian and Chinese citizens, that's all.
.......The HOUSE makes the rules and if you don't like it. you can fold your cards and walk.
........The "quality of life" in Spanish Springs, TV Land, and throughout America has decreased since about the 1950s.
.........A person could call their Congress Man and say, "Please give us a break on a few parking spaces" because that will start to turn America around for the better!

[jimjamuser]

i hear so many say they are afraid spainsh springs is being ignored to rot, or forgotten by the developers for greener pastures. what if this is the beginning of a new & more inclusive spanish springs? i'd be interested to see if there are any plans of future development in/or around the town square, ie: larger spaces for recreation, more restaurants, available parking, walking trails & things of that nature. orange blossom is such a beautiful area, the scenery is ideal to what comes to mind when a person thinks of resort-style florida. :popcorn:
Maybe they should move the apartments onto the closest golf course. That is available little-used space.

[Vermilion Villager]

What happened to "there is more than enough parking spaces behind the commercial buildings for apartment dwellers and daily users"? Who uses these reserved spaces when streets are closed for fairs, craft shows, and other events?
Have you ever thought that maybe in the future they are not planning anymore fairs, craft shows, or other events up in Spanish Springs? :shocked:

[Villages Kahuna]

If I was one of the retail tenants who rely on that parking, I’d be really unhappy. In this case it appears that the Developer intends to “re-purpose” Spanish Springs into something else. Less retail, no entertainment, even more apartments?

[Bogie Shooter]

If I was one of the retail tenants who rely on that parking, I’d be really unhappy. In this case it appears that the Developer intends to “re-purpose” Spanish Springs into something else. Less retail, no entertainment, even more apartments?

Parking was explained in today’s Daily Sun.

The sky is not really falling…………..

[Warcats]

To take needed parking for the Sharon and other events and shows seems a problem. Developers too often rape the land and leave their droppings behind.

[vintageogauge]

Parking was explained in today’s Daily Sun.

The sky is not really falling…………..

Right, and it won't fall. The square will be as good as, if not better than it is right now for years to come, they are not going to give up all those tenants around the square, they quoted that some of the events held there bring in 10,000 heads and the cruise-in's 2,000 heads, that's a lot. I feel that they realize times are changing and want to keep up with it. They did note that 80% of the Loft residents moved there from homes within TV so there is a demand for them and they will probably build them slowly to see how they go. I wouldn't doubt that the first 7 are already spoken for.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

According to the Daily Sun article:
We have a big commitment there and continue to commit more and more resources to maintaining and improving it.

That sounds like spin, not fact. If it was fact, they would've either completed the renovations of the Rialto and it'd be open for business by now, or they'd be proudly announcing the plans for its future by now. Instead, we get radio silence and vague meaningless statements like in the above.

Then, there's the paragraph where they compare the 7 apartment units to the Lofts of Brownwood. The Lofts are a few dozen apartments in a single building, with its own dedicated, gated parking lot and its own dedicated swimming pool and lobby. It also has garage space available exclusively for their use, their own pet lawn, a dedicated spot for barbequing outside. Compare with 7 units over a storefront with no pool, no gated entry to the property, no garages, no pet lawn, no outdoor cooking area, no lobby or dedicated recreational area, but those 7 units will be mostly isolated away from the entire rest of the Villages at 11PM until 9 the next morning.

What WOULD enhance the Square area - is if they took the MVP gym and moved it to the Rialto property, and added maybe a juice bar and other "healthy options" small eatery (since it's a gym, that'd fit) and maybe even a nook with health-related products and services, like vitamins/supplements, kenisiology tape, massage therapy, acupressure and similar services.

And then take that MVP building that was -originally- supposed to be a hotel, and turn THAT into an apartment building. With a couple of rec center amenities (a billiards room, a meeting room with kitchen, a card room) on the second floor over an indoor pool, a concierge, and an elevator. Parking can be in the back, which has its own circular driveway and entrance to the building already.

[Babubhat]

Spanish Springs is obsolete. Everything you need is on 27. Not a big deal

[tophcfa]

Apartments very well might not be trying to kill Spanish Springs, but they will certainly not make it any easier to get one of the three lanes, which are already usually full, for amenity fee paying residents to use to swim laps at the La Hacienda sports pool.

[njbchbum]

Save the Spanish Springs Town Square!

Save Spanish Springs | from The Villages (https://savespanishsprings.com/)

[jricci13]

I heard about the apartments being built, taking away the parking away Spanish Springs…
We are being over abused by people from outside communities such as Stone Crest, Recreation Plantation , Hilltop Estates and all the others that are getting through with their golf carts and already taking up our spaces, using all of the recreation with guest passes from someone that lives in the villages, and using all the tee-times on our monthly CDD FEES… and now we’re going to have tenants that we retrieve no income from that are gonna be taking the remaining few parking spaces that are left in the square.
I phoned the Villages CDD and the supervisor treated me as if I had no right to complain. It’s almost like it’s just turned into a money making business for the Morse family and everyone else in the developing business, and the owners have no say anymore.

[Bogie Shooter]

I heard about the apartments being built, taking away the parking away Spanish Springs…
We are being over abused by people from outside communities such as Stone Crest, Recreation Plantation , Hilltop Estates and all the others that are getting through with their golf carts and already taking up our spaces
You know this as a fact or just reading opinion posts?

, using all of the recreation with guest passes from someone that lives in the villages,
Again where does this come from?

and using all the tee-times on our monthly CDD FEES…
You meant amenity fees right....you do know what they are?

and now we’re going to have tenants that we retrieve no income from
How do you know they will not be paying amenity fees?

that are gonna be taking the remaining few parking spaces that are left in the square.
How do you determine "few remaining"?

I phoned the Villages CDD and the supervisor treated me as if I had no right to complain.
If you used the above points, anybody would wonder where you were coming from.

It’s almost like it’s just turned into a money making business for the Morse family

Guess what, they are in the business to make money.......

and everyone else in the developing business,
Yep.

and the owners have no say anymore.

I been here 20 years, I cannot recall where any owners had any say in how The Villages was to be developed.


I am going to make an assumption, that you joined TOTV when you arrived. If so, you need more than a year to really know what is going on.

[Bilyclub]

I heard about the apartments being built, taking away the parking away Spanish Springs…
We are being over abused by people from outside communities such as Stone Crest, Recreation Plantation , Hilltop Estates and all the others that are getting through with their golf carts and already taking up our spaces, using all of the recreation with guest passes from someone that lives in the villages, and using all the tee-times on our monthly CDD FEES… and now we’re going to have tenants that we retrieve no income from that are gonna be taking the remaining few parking spaces that are left in the square.
I phoned the Villages CDD and the supervisor treated me as if I had no right to complain. It’s almost like it’s just turned into a money making business for the Morse family and everyone else in the developing business, and the owners have no say anymore.

I been here 20 years, I cannot recall where any owners had any say in how The Villages was to be developed.


I am going to make an assumption, that you joined TOTV when you arrived. If so, you need more than a year to really know what is going on.



I'll take issue with the amenity fee statement. The developer still has the 150 free amenity fees from the AAC for the Hacienda Clubhouse to apartment building fiasco.

[Joe V.]

I heard about the apartments being built, taking away the parking away Spanish Springs…
We are being over abused by people from outside communities such as Stone Crest, Recreation Plantation , Hilltop Estates and all the others that are getting through with their golf carts and already taking up our spaces, using all of the recreation with guest passes from someone that lives in the villages, and using all the tee-times on our monthly CDD FEES… and now we’re going to have tenants that we retrieve no income from that are gonna be taking the remaining few parking spaces that are left in the square.
I phoned the Villages CDD and the supervisor treated me as if I had no right to complain. It’s almost like it’s just turned into a money making business for the Morse family and everyone else in the developing business, and the owners have no say anymore.

The developer is in the business to make money.

[JSR22]

I'll take issue with the amenity fee statement. The developer still has the 150 free amenity fees from the ACC for the Hacienda Clubhouse fiasco.
Hacienda was not an amenity.

[manaboutown]

Personally, think a San Francisco theme would be comparatively less capital intensive and would be reasonable consistent with the surrounding area.

To do that the developer would have to bring in megatons of dirt to build hills, maybe put in tracks and a cable car and build a miniature Golden Gate Bridge. Oh, bringing in a bunch of homeless to panhandle, shoot up drugs in public and do their business in the streest would help authenticate it as San Francisco today.

[BostonRich]

I wonder if a food court type of operation, like that being built at Sawgrass Grove, would work in the Katie Belles space?

[jricci13]

I love the Spanish theme. I live a half of a half a mile from there are times when it’s packed with people. I just think as you go farther south and tends to be a younger crowd all day long. Spanish Spring drives in a lot of the locals late at night.

[Nucky]

The Developer Trying To Kill Spanish Springs? Can I present one simple question, please? Have some of our valued neighbors lost your damn minds? You don't want people walking their dogs on your property but telling someone else what to do with Real Estate that they have owned since the earth was flat is okay? Sorry but that doesn't compute. What's even crazier is that the demise of Spanish Springs is a figment of someone's immagination who has to much time on their hands.

Stop the foolishness. We are coming out of the biggest disaster of the last 100 years. Cut out stirring up something that doesn't exist or is none of your business!

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

The Developer Trying To Kill Spanish Springs? Can I present one simple question, please? Have some of our valued neighbors lost your damn minds? You don't want people walking their dogs on your property but telling someone else what to do with Real Estate that they have owned since the earth was flat is okay? Sorry but that doesn't compute. What's even crazier is that the demise of Spanish Springs is a figment of someone's immagination who has to much time on their hands.

Stop the foolishness. We are coming out of the biggest disaster of the last 100 years. Cut out stirring up something that doesn't exist or is none of your business!

I don't know about you Nucky, but as a resident, homeowner, taxpayer, and registered voter of the town of Lady Lake, in Lake County, the development of residential units in a commercial zone in the town of Lady Lake, in Lake County, is my business.

The restaurant that we enjoyed, Gator's Dockside, is at risk of closing for good due to lack of people to work the closing shift. That will negatively affect the Square. It's not the Developer's fault, but it is a "thing" that's going on there. It'll be one more business closed, on one more corner immediately adjacent to the public square area. The Rialto is closed. Gator's might close. The Square is experiencing problems, and adding 7 residential units to a commercial zone is not the answer.

[Laker14]

I don't know about you Nucky, but as a resident, homeowner, taxpayer, and registered voter of the town of Lady Lake, in Lake County, the development of residential units in a commercial zone in the town of Lady Lake, in Lake County, is my business.

The restaurant that we enjoyed, Gator's Dockside, is at risk of closing for good due to lack of people to work the closing shift. That will negatively affect the Square. It's not the Developer's fault, but it is a "thing" that's going on there. It'll be one more business closed, on one more corner immediately adjacent to the public square area. The Rialto is closed. Gator's might close. The Square is experiencing problems, and adding 7 residential units to a commercial zone is not the answer.

If the old model were working, it would still be making money for the owners of the property. Businesses seldom disappear unless they aren't profitable enough to justify the work, and the risk. It seems obvious to me that the businesses that have closed closed due to not making enough money.
It is someone's job to make that space as profitable as possible. Unfortunately for those who would prefer to have things there remain as they were 20 years ago, some things are influencing decisions away from that. One is that the old model isn't generating enough cash flow to justify keeping it, and, here's the scary one: since the owners of that property are no longer trying to sell new developments in that area, it no longer is of benefit to them as a lure to bring in new Villagers.
They are likely trying to generate the maximum cash flow they can, and in true capitalist fashion, don't give a hoot about how it affects the lifestyle of the neighbors, or the value of their homes. In fact, by making the neighborhood less desirable to prospective buyers, it funnels more buyers to the newer sections.

One of my misgivings about buying in TV was the fact that if I chose to sell someday, I would be in competition with the developer, and I'd lose. But I did it anyway.

The more they invest in building in the south, the less motivated they will be to keep the north attractive.
That's just my opinion. Maybe the family doesn't feel that way. Maybe they feel a debt of gratitude to the people who bought into Gary Morse's dream. Maybe they do. I would hope so, but, they didn't all get to be billionaires by being driven my sentimentality.

[Bilyclub]

Hacienda was not an amenity.


Didn't say it was, but if you recall the AAC voted to give the developer 150 amenity fees for free for their apartments planned on the Hacienda site.

[dewilson58]

........is my business. The Square is experiencing problems, and adding 7 residential units to a commercial zone is not the answer.

Empty vs. Apartments (it's probably for sale) those are the choices now............unless you are going to tell a company how to run their business.

[Stu from NYC]

Empty vs. Apartments (it's probably for sale) those are the choices now............unless you are going to tell a company how to run their business.

Wonder just how expensive rents are in the squares? Outside strip malls on 27/441 seem to be pretty full.

[dewilson58]

Wonder just how expensive rents are in the squares? Outside strip malls on 27/441 seem to be pretty full.

Jus like living inside TV, probably higher than outside TV.

[Papa_lecki]

Wonder just how expensive rents are in the squares? Outside strip malls on 27/441 seem to be pretty full.

They also seem to be very busy and full.
Rents are rents, they are charging what the market will bear. Maybe there’s a premium because the real estate is golf car accessible. If that doesn’t warrant a rent premium, it will not be charged.

Maybe the problem is us (the residents), do we eat at all the restaurants often or do we get bad service one time write a bad review and never go back again? How much did you spend at the retails shop in SS last year?

[Stu from NYC]

They also seem to be very busy and full.
Rents are rents, they are charging what the market will bear. Maybe there’s a premium because the real estate is golf car accessible. If that doesn’t warrant a rent premium, it will not be charged.

Maybe the problem is us (the residents), do we eat at all the restaurants often or do we get bad service one time write a bad review and never go back again? How much did you spend at the retails shop in SS last year?

If your asking how much I spent at the SS retail shops probably very little. Now my wife would be another story.

[vintageogauge]

They also seem to be very busy and full.
Rents are rents, they are charging what the market will bear. Maybe there’s a premium because the real estate is golf car accessible. If that doesn’t warrant a rent premium, it will not be charged.

Maybe the problem is us (the residents), do we eat at all the restaurants often or do we get bad service one time write a bad review and never go back again? How much did you spend at the retails shop in SS last year?

I've been to all of the restaurants in all 3 squares and don't think I ever had an experience in any of them that would stop me from going back. I like to give restaurants a second chance, even a third. Sometimes they end up being one of my favorites. What I won't do on a square is wait in line to get a drink from the booze huts. If there is no line I go in otherwise I'll go to City Fire or one of the others with outside bars for drinks. We also buy from the retail stores, shoes, clothing, home decor, etc. it's nice to have them around.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

They also seem to be very busy and full.
Rents are rents, they are charging what the market will bear. Maybe there’s a premium because the real estate is golf car accessible. If that doesn’t warrant a rent premium, it will not be charged.

Maybe the problem is us (the residents), do we eat at all the restaurants often or do we get bad service one time write a bad review and never go back again? How much did you spend at the retails shop in SS last year?

We go to the squares fairly regularly. We were getting wings at Gator's almost weekly, until the unemployment incentives tanked their employee roster and their service and wait-time for food was significantly reduced. But we did still go. Just not as often. We also enjoy World of Beer, we were just there this past week in fact. I love the waffle cones at Kilwins and sometimes will go in just to buy a cone, even if I'm not in the mood for ice cream.

I check the shops for clearance sales in case there's a shirt or pair of shorts they're trying to get rid of. A few nice things but 50% of $160 is still more than I'll ever pay for a shirt. When it gets down to under $20 I try it on.

We also go to the squares to listen to music and dance on occasion and always get drinks at the huts.

I also like checking out the craft fairs, though seeing the same vendors over and over again is kinda uninspiring. Once in awhile I'll buy something, usually a soap, or a packet of spice. Actually hoping the Vermont maple syrup people come back soon, we're almost out and we don't use "pancake" syrup or "table" syrup. Maple syrup in the stores is stupidly expensive and that vendor's prices are actually reasonable.

[rustyp]

It does seem that no one is talking about if property owned by the developers (I assume this is, if not, the entire conversation makes no sense) should not be allowed to be repurposed if the developers are not making as much money as they would like to from that property.

For people that seem to enjoy capitalism, that enjoyment only extends to what they think a company should do?

And now for the rest of the story:

The area is zoned by Lady Lake as commercial not residential. The developer in essence is asking to change the law for their particular interests (a variance) thus in this case the developer is not allowed to do whatever they wish carte blanche with "their property". Only within the law. The citizens of Lady Lake have every right to their input to the change. The elected officials have an obligation to make a decision that will ultimately benefit all the citizens.

[vintageogauge]

And now for the rest of the story:

The area is zoned by Lady Lake as commercial not residential. The developer in essence is asking to change the law for their particular interests (a variance) thus in this case the developer is not allowed to do whatever they wish carte blanche with "their property". Only within the law. The citizens of Lady Lake have every right to their input to the change. The elected officials have an obligation to make a decision that will ultimately benefit all the citizens.

However, everyone knows including our elected officials that there is always something in their back pocket that will not make their residents happy and would not require a variance. Local Government 101.

[kansasr]

I do find it interesting, with all the uproar over what's happening in Spanish Springs, that SUDDENLY there's a front page article in the Daily Sun about how wonderful things are in Spanish Springs......

[MartinSE]

And now for the rest of the story:

The area is zoned by Lady Lake as commercial not residential. The developer in essence is asking to change the law for their particular interests (a variance) thus in this case the developer is not allowed to do whatever they wish carte blanche with "their property". Only within the law. The citizens of Lady Lake have every right to their input to the change. The elected officials have an obligation to make a decision that will ultimately benefit all the citizens.

I completely agree, ANY business can only do what they want within the law. I would think that would "go without saying" but I guess in todays world that might be a bad assumption.

And elected officials always SHOULD do what is in their constituents best interest. Yup...

I am not familiar with the conditions around the Squares (north or south) do the dev's maintain ownership of the Squares? If so, are there any agreements in the purchase agreement for a house in an area with a square?

[Stu from NYC]

I do find it interesting, with all the uproar over what's happening in Spanish Springs, that SUDDENLY there's a front page article in the Daily Sun about how wonderful things are in Spanish Springs......

Well the developer told them to do so in order help the rest of us think life is wonderful in SS.

[rustyp]

I completely agree, ANY business can only do what they want within the law. I would think that would "go without saying" but I guess in todays world that might be a bad assumption.

And elected officials always SHOULD do what is in their constituents best interest. Yup...

I am not familiar with the conditions around the Squares (north or south) do the dev's maintain ownership of the Squares? If so, are there any agreements in the purchase agreement for a house in an area with a square?

If apartments were allowed why would the developer be applying for a change in zoning law?

[tophcfa]

I completely agree, ANY business can only do what they want within the law. I would think that would "go without saying" but I guess in todays world that might be a bad assumption?

Those with deep enough pockets and extensive political influence typically don’t take no for an answer and can find ways to make their desires and the law come into alignment.

[MartinSE]

Those with deep enough pockets and extensive political influence typically don’t take no for an answer and can find ways to make their desires and the law come into alignment.

Sadly, I can't disagree with you. Imagine a world where money could not influence law.

[vintageogauge]

Sadly, I can't disagree with you. Imagine a world where money could not influence law.

Right, that would be like having a billionaire President somewhere in the world.

[Stu from NYC]

Those with deep enough pockets and extensive political influence typically don’t take no for an answer and can find ways to make their desires and the law come into alignment.

The developer sure has a lot of influence within the state.

[dewilson58]

The elected officials have an obligation to make a decision that will ultimately benefit all the citizens.

Exactly, not jus the whiny few.

[Nucky]

I don't know about you Nucky, but as a resident, homeowner, taxpayer, and registered voter of the town of Lady Lake, in Lake County, the development of residential units in a commercial zone in the town of Lady Lake, in Lake County, is my business.

The restaurant that we enjoyed, Gator's Dockside, is at risk of closing for good due to lack of people to work the closing shift. That will negatively affect the Square. It's not the Developer's fault, but it is a "thing" that's going on there. It'll be one more business closed, on one more corner immediately adjacent to the public square area. The Rialto is closed. Gator's might close. The Square is experiencing problems, and adding 7 residential units to a commercial zone is not the answer.

It's not that much of a problem either. If these residential units take down Spanish Springs then there was something much deeper that was wrong in the first place.

I'm surprised that people who normally stand up for other people's rites don't see that they are running a BUSINESS. That is strictly about making money. The way I see it is that is all they are trying to do. They are not out to personally hurt anyone of us.

Too Jay's closed and another joint opened up. The same thing will happen if Gators closes. Life will go on, I'll go to the square when there is a band we like and so on and so forth. I won't boycott or worry about SEVEN apartments.

All the complaining and crying started when the 2 for 1 drinks stopped. Has anyone ever put that together?

I wonder how much the income decreased for the landlords all over The Villages during the height of COVID? They are scrambling to recover. Private landlords and The Developer.

If so many businesses are going to be closing then the parking for these apartments won't be an issue.

My opinion is not popular and if the apartments are blocked then that's the way it was supposed to be and I'll accept it without one single tear. I'm grateful to be up at the Square fighting for my parking spot instead of hanging at the house. :1rotfl:

[Laker14]

Better a billionaire than an idiot:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

sometimes you get two birds with one stone.

[tophcfa]

The developer sure has a lot of influence within the state.

There are a couple of former county commissioners that would definitely agree with your statement.

[coffeebean]

The tale of three Villages. The folks in the southern area are waiting for stuff to be built, the folks in the northern area are hoping the stuff that already has been built won’t continue to be torn down or repurposed, and the folks in the center area are currently as content as a clam during high tide.

Consider me a contended clam. LOL.

[Stu from NYC]

There are a couple of former county commissioners that would definitely agree with your statement.

And the third one just elected may have been seduced by the dark side.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

And now for the rest of the story:

The area is zoned by Lady Lake as commercial not residential. The developer in essence is asking to change the law for their particular interests (a variance) thus in this case the developer is not allowed to do whatever they wish carte blanche with "their property". Only within the law. The citizens of Lady Lake have every right to their input to the change. The elected officials have an obligation to make a decision that will ultimately benefit all the citizens.

...and on the eighth day, god created money.
...and on the ninth day, god created lobbies.

[yellowtownhouse]

If only any of us knew the developers plans for that area. But we don't, it's all conjecture and speculation.

Where's Graciegirl when we need her?:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Where IS Gracie Girl? You are sorely MISSED!!

[Get real]

Where IS Gracie Girl? You are sorely MISSED!!

I heard she was busy moving into her new apartment at SS.

[Marathon Man]

"The Developer Trying To Kill Spanish Springs"? Please explain how it will benefit the developer to kill Spanish Springs. Makes no sense to me but maybe someone can draw a color picture explanation. If anything it is the Villagers who are killing the town square by not patronizing the businesses that are there.

Research how cities are trying to revitalize downtown areas. These studies have shown that for the downtown area of a city to survive is that there need to be people living in the downtown to patronize the businesses. The downtown area of Nashville, Tennessee used to be a ghost town after 5:00PM when all the office workers quit for the day. A developer realized the opportunity and built a high rise apartment building right in the downtown and all of a sudden more stores opened in previously vacant buildings. Since then more condos and apartment buildings have been built and a whole lot of people are patronizing the downtown businesses and many new businesses have opened. Lots of people like to live where the "action" is and being right on the square appeals to them. Just because you wouldn't like it doesn't mean others feel that way.

As to the comment that after 11:00 PM Spanish Springs is totally empty, so are the other town squares. This is a community of old folks and most of us can't or don't want to party much after 10:00PM.

Had another thought. My understanding is the second floor of these building were originally set up for businesses but apparently there wasn't enough customer support by Villagers to patronize potential business people renting the space. So is the developer supposed to suck it up and eat the revenue loss? That sounds like great business advice.

So many wannabe financial and community development experts on this forum.

Well said.

The fact that "The Developer" is willing to invest money to put apartments in tells me that "The Developer" is actually trying to SAVE Spanish Springs.

[Stu from NYC]

Well said.

The fact that "The Developer" is willing to invest money to put apartments in tells me that "The Developer" is actually trying to SAVE Spanish Springs.

7 apartments will not amount to a hill of beans. It is an experiment to see if they can make money doing this. If so look forward to lots of apartments in the squares perhaps high rise building for residential space.

[MartinSE]

7 apartments will not amount to a hill of beans. It is an experiment to see if they can make money doing this. If so look forward to lots of apartments in the squares perhaps high rise building for residential space.

I agree, I think the developers will "follow the money" where ever it may go. In my mind that is a good thing. The downside being things change and no everyone likes change. The up side is if it makes money it will be maintained.

Anyone every seen a "downtown" that was thriving and not being maintained, or improved. But, we have all seen (a lot) of downtowns that were not making money and allowed two fall into disrepair.

[jricci13]

In response to Boogie Shooter,

Apparently you don't get around and talk to people.
I've met people at the square who have told me they live in Stonecrest and then see them ride by on their golf cart. I spoke to two girls in Margarita Republic who told me that they came in from Stonecrest through the "Walmart Gate" with a swipe card. I dated a guy from a neighboring community (respecting his privacy) who goes to the squares on his golf cart driving over private property.
I took a pictures (can't attach) of a cart who crossed my path on Rolling Acres Road, driving from the Villages side into Recreation Plantation (just to name a few). A very good source told me there is access where they can get into the Villages from RP. I spoke to people staying at the RV resorts who hit up owners to get them guest passes so they could play golf everyday. Shouldn't the guest truly be our guests?
Now, to address the apartments. If you rent an apartment you get parking and recreation. Before I bought my property in the Villages I checked out the rentals in Brownwood. There is no reason why the Villages can't use parking spaces behind the buildings. Taking away from the limited parking around the square where "very elderly seniors" park close to enjoy the music and venues is wrong.

I don't have the energy to answer all of your insertions. Get out and talk to people...go to the square and see for yourself rather than question every line of my comments.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

In response to Boogie Shooter,

Apparently you don't get around and talk to people.
I've met people at the square who have told me they live in Stonecrest and then see them ride by on their golf cart. I spoke to two girls in Margarita Republic who told me that they came in from Stonecrest through the "Walmart Gate" with a swipe card. I dated a guy from a neighboring community (respecting his privacy) who goes to the squares on his golf cart driving over private property.
I took a pictures (can't attach) of a cart who crossed my path on Rolling Acres Road, driving from the Villages side into Recreation Plantation (just to name a few). A very good source told me there is access where they can get into the Villages from RP. I spoke to people staying at the RV resorts who hit up owners to get them guest passes so they could play golf everyday. Shouldn't the guest truly be our guests?
Now, to address the apartments. If you rent an apartment you get parking and recreation. Before I bought my property in the Villages I checked out the rentals in Brownwood. There is no reason why the Villages can't use parking spaces behind the buildings. Taking away from the limited parking around the square where "very elderly seniors" park close to enjoy the music and venues is wrong.

I don't have the energy to answer all of your insertions. Get out and talk to people...go to the square and see for yourself rather than question every line of my comments.

I'm not seeing anywhere where the developer is saying they plan on taking spaces from the front of the building. I vaguely recall some wording in the proposal saying that they "should" but not that they "shall" or "must." In legalese, these words have very significant differences, and it was a legal document.

I also recall reading (possibly from the Daily Sun the other day?) the developer stating that they do -not- plan on creating tenant-reserved parking in the front of the building.

It'd be a logistics nightmare if they did - since that would give tenants the right to drive to those spaces park there even when the road is closed for fairs and festivals. Hard to do when there are throngs of pedestrians there and the road is blocked off with cones and Community Watch folks directing traffic away.

I still don't like the idea of isolating 7 units in a single small building in a commercial zone. I still think they should repurpose the Rialto into the MPV fitness center and turn the existing MPV center into either a hotel or apartments (or combination) with amenities built into the property.

[JMintzer]

I spoke to people staying at the RV resorts who hit up owners to get them guest passes so they could play golf everyday. Shouldn't the guest truly be our guests?

Who makes their T-times? A resident must do it...

I find your claim to be suspect...

[Laker14]

In response to Boogie Shooter,

I spoke to people staying at the RV resorts who hit up owners to get them guest passes so they could play golf everyday. Shouldn't the guest truly be our guests?


Who makes their T-times? A resident must do it...

I find your claim to be suspect...


You can make a golf reservation with a guest pass ID#. You don't have to play with a resident. However, I don't see the developer's plans for the square having much impact on the dynamic of people cheating the system with fake guest passes.

Edit: I might be wrong about that. I'm confusing when I was a renter with when I was a guest. I don't remember how it worked when I was a guest.

[Bilyclub]

I'm not seeing anywhere where the developer is saying they plan on taking spaces from the front of the building. I vaguely recall some wording in the proposal saying that they "should" but not that they "shall" or "must." In legalese, these words have very significant differences, and it was a legal document.

I also recall reading (possibly from the Daily Sun the other day?) the developer stating that they do -not- plan on creating tenant-reserved parking in the front of the building.

It'd be a logistics nightmare if they did - since that would give tenants the right to drive to those spaces park there even when the road is closed for fairs and festivals. Hard to do when there are throngs of pedestrians there and the road is blocked off with cones and Community Watch folks directing traffic away.


The attached document clearly shows assigned parking in front if the Van Patten Building.

[Bogie Shooter]

In response to Boogie Shooter,

Apparently you don't get around and talk to people.
I've met people at the square who have told me they live in Stonecrest and then see them ride by on their golf cart. I spoke to two girls in Margarita Republic who told me that they came in from Stonecrest through the "Walmart Gate" with a swipe card. I dated a guy from a neighboring community (respecting his privacy) who goes to the squares on his golf cart driving over private property.
I took a pictures (can't attach) of a cart who crossed my path on Rolling Acres Road, driving from the Villages side into Recreation Plantation (just to name a few). A very good source told me there is access where they can get into the Villages from RP. I spoke to people staying at the RV resorts who hit up owners to get them guest passes so they could play golf everyday. Shouldn't the guest truly be our guests?
Now, to address the apartments. If you rent an apartment you get parking and recreation. Before I bought my property in the Villages I checked out the rentals in Brownwood. There is no reason why the Villages can't use parking spaces behind the buildings. Taking away from the limited parking around the square where "very elderly seniors" park close to enjoy the music and venues is wrong.

I don't have the energy to answer all of your insertions. Get out and talk to people...go to the square and see for yourself rather than question every line of my comments.

All hearsay.

[Bogie Shooter]

I do find it interesting, with all the uproar over what's happening in Spanish Springs, that SUDDENLY there's a front page article in the Daily Sun about how wonderful things are in Spanish Springs......

Maybe to provide facts to some of the bias erroneous opinions posted on TOTV?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

The attached document clearly shows assigned parking in front if the Van Patten Building.

Yes that is the drawn outline of the proposed plan. In the TEXT explaining the design, the wording is "should" rather than "must" or "shall" with regards to those numbered spaces. The word "should" specifies that this is not set in stone. It is changeable, negotiable, not a done deal, and not a deal-breaker.

[Stu from NYC]

Maybe to provide facts to some of the bias erroneous opinions posted on TOTV?

I would agree if not for the obvious bias the paper shows to so many things.

[Bilyclub]

Yes that is the drawn outline of the proposed plan. In the TEXT explaining the design, the wording is "should" rather than "must" or "shall" with regards to those numbered spaces. The word "should" specifies that this is not set in stone. It is changeable, negotiable, not a done deal, and not a deal-breaker.

That the developer would even consider taking away 14 spots on the square which is a public street is disheartening. I have no beef with them taking 14 spots in their parking lot.

[Nucky]

Who started this madness? Is it the same person or people who said the bridges would never be built or the Walmart Cart Path would be closed? Calm down. Go out if you can. It's beautiful at Spanish Springs today.

[JMintzer]

You can make a golf reservation with a guest pass ID#. You don't have to play with a resident. However, I don't see the developer's plans for the square having much impact on the dynamic of people cheating the system with fake guest passes.

Edit: I might be wrong about that. I'm confusing when I was a renter with when I was a guest. I don't remember how it worked when I was a guest.

Yes, you were confused. I had to have a resident make my t-times when I first came down as a guest, but I could make my own when I rented for a few months, before we bought...

[Jim 9922]

The location of the building really makes it less than ideal for apartments. It is basically land locked by other buildings including a restaurant to the west and the bowling alley complex to the south. Looks like they either park on the streets or convert the retail clothing store on the ground floor to private covered parking (if that is possible, considering structural building and fire codes). Converting the empty office spaces along the commercial row and the MVP Building would make more sense in that entrances are already accessible to existing parking lots. Of course, these conversions assume basic apartment fire code construction features were originally built into the buildings.

When Spanish Springs was originally built, the second-floor offices were used principally for Developer and CDD activities and even included a "private" restaurant for Developer and selected local business executives. All that, including the restaurant moved to the second-floor offices at Lake Sumter Landing. Now most of the Developer and CDD administration activity was recently relocated to Brownwood. I assume the next massive migration of Developer office employees will be to the Middleton area once that is completed.

I assume they learned from their mistakes at Spanish Springs and built the office areas in the newer town squares to be more conducive to apartment conversions. Most of those offices have direct access to parking lots, and in fact are usually accessible only from the back or breezeways.

I believe I read somewhere that the Developer holds 120 additional "resident permits". That would probably fill up the second floors of Spanish Springs and Lake Sumter Landing areas.

[Bilyclub]

The location of the building really makes it less than ideal for apartments. It is basically land locked by other buildings including a restaurant to the west and the bowling alley complex to the south. Looks like they either park on the streets or convert the retail clothing store on the ground floor to private covered parking (if that is possible, considering structural building and fire codes). Converting the empty office spaces along the commercial row and the MVP Building would make more sense in that entrances are already accessible to existing parking lots. Of course, these conversions assume basic apartment fire code construction features were originally built into the buildings.

When Spanish Springs was originally built, the second-floor offices were used principally for Developer and CDD activities and even included a "private" restaurant for Developer and selected local business executives. All that, including the restaurant moved to the second-floor offices at Lake Sumter Landing. Now most of the Developer and CDD administration activity was recently relocated to Brownwood. I assume the next massive migration of Developer office employees will be to the Middleton area once that is completed.

I assume they learned from their mistakes at Spanish Springs and built the office areas in the newer town squares to be more conducive to apartment conversions. Most of those offices have direct access to parking lots, and in fact are usually accessible only from the back or breezeways.

I believe I read somewhere that the Developer holds 120 additional "resident permits". That would probably fill up the second floors of Spanish Springs and Lake Sumter Landing areas.

In 2020 the AAC voted to allow the Developer’s remaining 286 amenity units that had been designated in 2015 for residents of independent living facilities (ILFs) or assisted living facilities (ALFs) to be used for apartments.