Avid Villages Cyclist Answers Your Questions

[kkimball]

Here are my (opinionated) answers to common cycling questions I've seen recently on this forum.

If you have more questions, post them here, and I'll answer them as best I can.

Q: Why don't cyclists stick to the MMPs?
A: The MMPs are great for a casual ride, but the frequent stops and corners make for a slow ride. Many cyclists prefer the open roads because they can go faster and get a better workout.

Q: Why do people ride bikes when it's so dangerous?
A: Every activity has some amount of risk. Cyclists know and have accepted the risk. My opinion is that The Villages is safer than other areas because motorists are more accustomed to seeing cyclists on the road.

Q: Why do cyclists ride down the middle of the lane?
A: Because they don't want to be passed in *their* lane. Motorists should move to the lane on the left before passing a cyclist in the right lane and only pass when it's safe. Please be patient and always give cyclists at least 3-feet of clearance when passing.

Q: Why don't cyclists follow the rules of the road?
A: They absolutely should, but like motorists, cyclists sometimes don't pay attention as much as they should or outright skirt the rules.

Q: Why don't cyclists have more lights so seeing them is easier?
A: They should. Brighter tail lights and headlights are a good idea. When riding earlier or later in the day, wearing bright colored LED lights is also a good idea.

Q: What happened to ABC cyclist that got hit on XYZ road?
A: Most accidents are not widely reported.

Q: Why are cyclists so arrogant?
A: Cyclists are people, and some of them are arrogant. Most are not, in my experience.

These are my opinions and observations. I'm happy to hear yours.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Why was it when I was a following a group of bicyclists in my golf cart on and MMP that one or more of them would move over to the left every time I tried to pass them? They were going about 13 mph and my cart goes 20 but they wouldn't allow me to pass for over two miles.

[golfing eagles]

Why was it when I was a following a group of bicyclists in my golf cart on and MMP that one or more of them would move over to the left every time I tried to pass them? They were going about 13 mph and my cart goes 20 but they wouldn't allow me to pass for over two miles.

Probably because the cyclists believe that they, and they alone, are the sole arbitrators of when it is safe for them to be passed. Apparently the rest of us don't get a vote.

[DARFAP]

I vote for them to ride on the open roads.

[JMintzer]

Why was it when I was a following a group of bicyclists in my golf cart on and MMP that one or more of them would move over to the left every time I tried to pass them? They were going about 13 mph and my cart goes 20 but they wouldn't allow me to pass for over two miles.

Because THAT particular group of cyclists had some jerks in the group...

[villager7591]

I agree with you opinion on Road v. MMPs. However, not so bad now that many snowbirds are leaving BUT, the MMPs I feel are just as dangerous as the road. With many walkers and golf cars on the MMPs, and many are impatient golf car drivers, the MMPs are often more dangerous. I only feel safe on the paths that prohibit golf cars (walkers and cyclists only).

[ElDiabloJoe]

Cyclists, in my experience, have earned their reputation. Especially when they are riding in their massive pelotons, these Lance Armstrong wannabes blatantly ignore stop signs, hold up traffic, and arrogantly "Take the lane."

They complain about cars passing them too closely or that they alone should take up an entire vehicular travel lane, but they are also the worst violators.

When I was running dozens of miles per week during marathon training build-ups, they would zoom past me and purposely try to skim shoulders as they did so. Their attempts to intimidate me out of my run often led to me sticking my arms straight out as they passed, and they were none-too-happy about being clothes-lined in that fashion. However, I was just "taking my lane."

Cyclist is just another way of saying arrogant jerk, and dorky looking loser. Clicking around in their little cycle shoes and tight clothes like teen aged girls in high heels walking on the dance floor.

Not here to start a war, but you did open the door to the topic. So, reiterating, I think they have earned their reputation and the disdain of all other road users.

[Taurus510]

[QUOTE=ElDiabloJoe;2090189]

[golfing eagles]

Cyclists, in my experience, have earned their reputation. Especially when they are riding in their massive pelotons, these Lance Armstrong wannabes blatantly ignore stop signs, hold up traffic, and arrogantly "Take the lane."

They complain about cars passing them too closely or that they alone should take up an entire vehicular travel lane, but they are also the worst violators.

When I was running dozens of miles per week during marathon training build-ups, they would zoom past me and purposely try to skim shoulders as they did so. Their attempts to intimidate me out of my run often led to me sticking my arms straight out as they passed, and they were none-too-happy about being clothes-lined in that fashion.

Cyclist is just another way of saying arrogant jerk, and dorky looking loser. Clicking around in their little cycle shoes and tight clothes like teen aged girls in high heels walking on the dance floor.

Not here to start a war, but you did open the door to the topic. So, reiterating, I think they have earned their reputation and the disdain of all other road users.

But, how do you really feel??????:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Cyclists, in my experience, have earned their reputation. Especially when they are riding in their massive pelotons, these Lance Armstrong wannabes blatantly ignore stop signs, hold up traffic, and arrogantly "Take the lane."

They complain about cars passing them too closely or that they alone should take up an entire vehicular travel lane, but they are also the worst violators.

When I was running dozens of miles per week during marathon training build-ups, they would zoom past me and purposely try to skim shoulders as they did so. Their attempts to intimidate me out of my run often led to me sticking my arms straight out as they passed, and they were none-too-happy about being clothes-lined in that fashion. However, I was just "taking my lane."

Cyclist is just another way of saying arrogant jerk, and dorky looking loser. Clicking around in their little cycle shoes and tight clothes like teen aged girls in high heels walking on the dance floor.

Not here to start a war, but you did open the door to the topic. So, reiterating, I think they have earned their reputation and the disdain of all other road users.

So this is interesting train of thought vomitus. Let's take that apart shall we?

1. Peloton is not a bicycle that people can ride. It's a stationary bicycle. That means you set it up on your lanai or somewhere in the house, and it doesn't go anywhere. It has one wheel - the other end is attached to a base. So you're griping about something you clearly know nothing about, and making it up as you go along.

2. It sounds like you have a lot of anger against teenage girls, or possibly have some resentment against teenage girls who wear tight clothes and heels when they go dancing? Pretty weird, and possibly creepy, if you ask me.

3. I don't know what you mean by cyclist shoes. I wear sneakers, just normal sneakers. I also wear leggings or skin-hugging shorts, because otherwise I get chafing on my thighs from constant peddling up and down against the bike seat.

4. You're running in the street, at probably around 6-7mph. A bicycle is riding, usually between 13-17mph. A golf cart is driving between 17-20mph. And a car is driving at 20-45mph. If they're all approaching each other, whether from behind or in front, then everyone has to squeeze in so everyone fits and has room to pass each other. It has to be paced, timed so that no one ends up tipped over and injured. The pedestrian has the easiest job of stopping or getting out of the way. That's just physics. The golf cart has the second easiest job of stopping or getting out of the way. The car has the third easiest job. And the bicycle - has the hardest time either stopping or getting out of the way.

So cut those cyclists some slack. If you see them coming toward you, get as close to the edge of the path as you can. In fact, if it's safe to get on the grass, then get on the grass. YOU won't be inconvenienced even a smidge.

[tophcfa]

Cyclists, in my experience, have earned their reputation. Especially when they are riding in their massive pelotons, these Lance Armstrong wannabes blatantly ignore stop signs, hold up traffic, and arrogantly "Take the lane."

They complain about cars passing them too closely or that they alone should take up an entire vehicular travel lane, but they are also the worst violators.

When I was running dozens of miles per week during marathon training build-ups, they would zoom past me and purposely try to skim shoulders as they did so. Their attempts to intimidate me out of my run often led to me sticking my arms straight out as they passed, and they were none-too-happy about being clothes-lined in that fashion. However, I was just "taking my lane."

Cyclist is just another way of saying arrogant jerk, and dorky looking loser. Clicking around in their little cycle shoes and tight clothes like teen aged girls in high heels walking on the dance floor.

Not here to start a war, but you did open the door to the topic. So, reiterating, I think they have earned their reputation and the disdain of all other road users.

I guess that “taking my lane thing” can work for more than just bikers. What bothers me is the “taking my lane” thing on the MMP’s where there is only one lane. Regardless of your form of transportation, if there is only one lane and you are going slower than the person behind you, get out of the way! That includes the golf carts that like to drive slow and then floor it when you try to pass them.

[Toymeister]

There are about a dozen, perhaps double that, of regular posters who dominant the posts here in general discussion. One or two try to be funny most are just talking to themselves. Given the vast amount of time they spend getting in the last word and spreading mostly inaccurate negativism. All hate cyclists.

[Bill14564]

So this is interesting train of thought vomitus. Let's take that apart shall we?

1. Peloton is not a bicycle that people can ride. It's a stationary bicycle. That means you set it up on your lanai or somewhere in the house, and it doesn't go anywhere. It has one wheel - the other end is attached to a base. So you're griping about something you clearly know nothing about, and making it up as you go along.

2. It sounds like you have a lot of anger against teenage girls, or possibly have some resentment against teenage girls who wear tight clothes and heels when they go dancing? Pretty weird, and possibly creepy, if you ask me.

3. I don't know what you mean by cyclist shoes. I wear sneakers, just normal sneakers. I also wear leggings or skin-hugging shorts, because otherwise I get chafing on my thighs from constant peddling up and down against the bike seat.

4. You're running in the street, at probably around 6-7mph. A bicycle is riding, usually between 13-17mph. A golf cart is driving between 17-20mph. And a car is driving at 20-45mph. If they're all approaching each other, whether from behind or in front, then everyone has to squeeze in so everyone fits and has room to pass each other. It has to be paced, timed so that no one ends up tipped over and injured. The pedestrian has the easiest job of stopping or getting out of the way. That's just physics. The golf cart has the second easiest job of stopping or getting out of the way. The car has the third easiest job. And the bicycle - has the hardest time either stopping or getting out of the way.

So cut those cyclists some slack. If you see them coming toward you, get as close to the edge of the path as you can. In fact, if it's safe to get on the grass, then get on the grass. YOU won't be inconvenienced even a smidge.

1. The word peloton existed long before a company adopted it. Look it up.

2. ????

3. While looking up peloton, look up bicycling footwear too.

4. The four conveyances would never be side-by-side in a single lane. Only runners would be in the same lane as a bicycle, car, or golf cart. All the others would take up two lanes if side-by-side. Also, unless specifically indicated, the runner/pedestrian has as an equal right to be in the lane as any of the others.

[ThirdOfFive]

Here are my (opinionated) answers to common cycling questions I've seen recently on this forum.

If you have more questions, post them here, and I'll answer them as best I can.

Q: Why don't cyclists stick to the MMPs?
A: The MMPs are great for a casual ride, but the frequent stops and corners make for a slow ride. Many cyclists prefer the open roads because they can go faster and get a better workout.

Q: Why do people ride bikes when it's so dangerous?
A: Every activity has some amount of risk. Cyclists know and have accepted the risk. My opinion is that The Villages is safer than other areas because motorists are more accustomed to seeing cyclists on the road.

Q: Why do cyclists ride down the middle of the lane?
A: Because they don't want to be passed in *their* lane. Motorists should move to the lane on the left before passing a cyclist in the right lane and only pass when it's safe. Please be patient and always give cyclists at least 3-feet of clearance when passing.

Q: Why don't cyclists follow the rules of the road?
A: They absolutely should, but like motorists, cyclists sometimes don't pay attention as much as they should or outright skirt the rules.

Q: Why don't cyclists have more lights so seeing them is easier?
A: They should. Brighter tail lights and headlights are a good idea. When riding earlier or later in the day, wearing bright colored LED lights is also a good idea.

Q: What happened to ABC cyclist that got hit on XYZ road?
A: Most accidents are not widely reported.

Q: Why are cyclists so arrogant?
A: Cyclists are people, and some of them are arrogant. Most are not, in my experience.

These are my opinions and observations. I'm happy to hear yours.
Excellent opening post. It would be good to see more such. Engaging in dialogue is better than spewing anger.

Lots of roads and streets in Minnesota have dedicated bicycle lanes where only bicycle traffic is allowed. I haven't been to many places yet in Florida but I've not seen them here. While they don't solve all problems those lanes do help. The problem is that not all streets have them and there are bicyclists up there who insist on riding their bicycles on streets with no bike lanes--during rush hour traffic. Rush hour in downtown Minneapolis, as in most large cities I imagine, can become nightmarish, and there is a lot of resentment from motorists when bicyclists are navigating those streets two abreast and going much slower than the vehicular traffic. It doesn't make a lot of sense: driving in rush hour there is hurry-up-and-wait most of the time, but there have been numerous incidents when that resentment boils over into out-and-out rage, with bicycles bumped off streets by cars, quite a few injuries of bicyclists, and some deaths.

When it is bicycle vs. car, bicycle loses every time.

[Babubhat]

Why have I not seen a bicycle stop at a sign in 7 years? Yes, never

[brianherlihy]

jerks dont stop so i domt stop and just keep on ridding right on and dont stop on my golf cart

[GpaVader]

Can't we all just get along... I came from Minneapolis and I familiar with the bike lanes mentioned. What wasn't mentioned is that those lanes came at the expense of a lane of traffic or someone's parking, which is especially difficult when they tend to lose that in the winter anyway. The larger related issue is paying for the bike lanes, like electric vehicles they don't buy gas so they don't contribute to some of the funding of the roads or surfaces they use.

The real issue is we all just need to get along, which most of us do. When passing bikers and walkers with my Golf Car, I go out of my way to give them room, more so for people walking their dogs. Yes, you will always run into jerks, but as I tell my wife, wait and get around them and you'll likely never see them again. Forget about it and go about your business....

[ElDiabloJoe]

So this is interesting train of thought vomitus. Let's take that apart shall we?

1. Peloton is not a bicycle that people can ride. It's a stationary bicycle. That means you set it up on your lanai or somewhere in the house, and it doesn't go anywhere. It has one wheel - the other end is attached to a base. So you're griping about something you clearly know nothing about, and making it up as you go along.

2. It sounds like you have a lot of anger against teenage girls, or possibly have some resentment against teenage girls who wear tight clothes and heels when they go dancing? Pretty weird, and possibly creepy, if you ask me.

3. I don't know what you mean by cyclist shoes. I wear sneakers, just normal sneakers. I also wear leggings or skin-hugging shorts, because otherwise I get chafing on my thighs from constant peddling up and down against the bike seat.

4. You're running in the street, at probably around 6-7mph. A bicycle is riding, usually between 13-17mph. A golf cart is driving between 17-20mph. And a car is driving at 20-45mph. If they're all approaching each other, whether from behind or in front, then everyone has to squeeze in so everyone fits and has room to pass each other. It has to be paced, timed so that no one ends up tipped over and injured. The pedestrian has the easiest job of stopping or getting out of the way. That's just physics. The golf cart has the second easiest job of stopping or getting out of the way. The car has the third easiest job. And the bicycle - has the hardest time either stopping or getting out of the way.

So cut those cyclists some slack. If you see them coming toward you, get as close to the edge of the path as you can. In fact, if it's safe to get on the grass, then get on the grass. YOU won't be inconvenienced even a smidge.

So this is interesting train of thought vomitus. Let's take that apart shall we? Clearly you are confusing recreational cycling with hardcore cyclists.

1. A peloton is a massive group of cyclists. The term has been around much longer than the recent few years and the uber popular stationary bike;

2. You are projecting wayyyy too much. "Creep" is a quick way to severely disparage someone. Usually used by those with little else to retort since there is little defense from the accusation. It's not "Creepy" like putting up cameras in bathrooms. THAT'S creepy, not comparing attire from one group to another. Is it "creepy" to say someone is on their cell phone all the time like a pre-teen girl? It's an apt comparison.

3. I'm simply saying, when cyclists and their specialized shoes (not the Keds you are wearing) stop at Starbucks, all you can hear is the clicking of their "clip-in" cycling shoes;

4. Physics aside, the slower traffic generally has the right of way. You have clearly never done serious running. First, you cannot slow and step out of the way easily when you are running because one does not have eyes in the back of their head in order to see the rapidly approaching cyclist. Using your logic, cyclists should always stop and pull over to the curb when faster cars approach from behind.

Additionally, stopping and dodging, even slowing for traffic lights causes a myriad of biomechanics issues to a body's dynamics when it is training at a high level. Have you ever watched a marathon? Do you really think they can just side-step an obstacle and not cause phenomenal counter-impacts to their tendons, ligaments, ankles, knees, and hips, never mind the break in breathing rhythm necessary to continue at a certain pace for many many miles.

By the way, the word you wanted to use is "Pedaling" not "Peddling." Unless you're selling something besides illogic.

You are clearly responding out of context. A person running dozens of miles a week and a very serious cyclist are far different than you out for a walk/jog or casual bike ride on your Schwinn.

PS- Sorry Bill14564, I didn't see you already addressed her points before I replied. You were far more succinct.

[dnobles]

This happens a lot on the way to Fenney area

[tophcfa]

Why have I not seen a bicycle stop at a sign in 7 years? Yes, never

Hmmm, you mean those aren’t just for cars????

[JMintzer]

Not here to start a war...

Looks like you failed...

[DAVES]

Here are my (opinionated) answers to common cycling questions I've seen recently on this forum.

If you have more questions, post them here, and I'll answer them as best I can.

Q: Why don't cyclists stick to the MMPs?
A: The MMPs are great for a casual ride, but the frequent stops and corners make for a slow ride. Many cyclists prefer the open roads because they can go faster and get a better workout.

Q: Why do people ride bikes when it's so dangerous?
A: Every activity has some amount of risk. Cyclists know and have accepted the risk. My opinion is that The Villages is safer than other areas because motorists are more accustomed to seeing cyclists on the road.

Q: Why do cyclists ride down the middle of the lane?
A: Because they don't want to be passed in *their* lane. Motorists should move to the lane on the left before passing a cyclist in the right lane and only pass when it's safe. Please be patient and always give cyclists at least 3-feet of clearance when passing.

Q: Why don't cyclists follow the rules of the road?
A: They absolutely should, but like motorists, cyclists sometimes don't pay attention as much as they should or outright skirt the rules.

Q: Why don't cyclists have more lights so seeing them is easier?
A: They should. Brighter tail lights and headlights are a good idea. When riding earlier or later in the day, wearing bright colored LED lights is also a good idea.

Q: What happened to ABC cyclist that got hit on XYZ road?
A: Most accidents are not widely reported.

Q: Why are cyclists so arrogant?
A: Cyclists are people, and some of them are arrogant. Most are not, in my experience.

These are my opinions and observations. I'm happy to hear yours.

A good try. The pseudo names. When you read the posts, it is clear too many of our fellow villagers are astronomy professors. They always did and continue to be sure the world revolves around them.

I ride a bike, drive a golf cart and drive a car so see and experience all sides. Truth, I don't think any will change their mind but......... In terms of speed to get a workout, like all other vehicles on the road, sharing the road, safely being on the road. There are places where it is safe to ride a bike, a car, a golf cart at speed and then others where slower speed is SMARTER. In terms of exercise. I own several bikes. Exercise? Buy an old Schwinn I had a 1950 Phantom that I picked up in the trash and restored it to be rideable. Single speed, bike weighs 50 pounds. If the goal is exercise that will do it.
Same of course applies to people who buy motorized bicycles. For exercise?

Manners, rules, common sense. I think we tend to see, to notice those who do not seem to know or care and not the most who do. Drivers? I think far too many people think they are better drivers than they are. The goal the win is everyone gets to where they are going in one piece. Realize what do you accomplish by????????????????
Get to the next red light sooner? Cars are expensive, gas is expensive, tires are out of sight, tickets etc etc etc etc.

[DAVES]

jerks dont stop so i domt stop and just keep on ridding right on and dont stop on my golf cart

Read my post about astronomy. Law is supposed to apply to all. Re: golf cart. The law is the golf cart is low man on the totem pole. By LAW, they yield to cars and yes to bicycles.

People. Accident is a word and often not the proper one. Most accidents are avoidable thus an impact is at least one person doing what they should not be doing.

[DAVES]

Hmmm, you mean those aren’t just for cars????

The reality. Stop sign. You are supposed to come to a complete stop even with the stop sign. Then, as is often the case you may need to go past there in order to see. Proper stopping for a stop sign I doubt you will see anyone do that.

Unlike a car or golf cart a bike that is not motorized some of them really should be forced to be registered vehicles with plates and insurance. A bike, a human powered one cannot accelerate quickly from a dead stop. At a stop sign, you need to be concerned with the traffic in front of you as well as cars or golf carts who will decide to drive around you.

[tsmall22204]

You didn't answer any questions, you gave your opinion. Your opinion is wrong on several levels because you are biased. If you were being honest and not opinionated the answers would be quite different.

[rrtjp]

So this is interesting train of thought vomitus. Let's take that apart shall we?

1. Peloton is not a bicycle that people can ride. It's a stationary bicycle. That means you set it up on your lanai or somewhere in the house, and it doesn't go anywhere. It has one wheel - the other end is attached to a base. So you're griping about something you clearly know nothing about, and making it up as you go along.

2. It sounds like you have a lot of anger against teenage girls, or possibly have some resentment against teenage girls who wear tight clothes and heels when they go dancing? Pretty weird, and possibly creepy, if you ask me.

3. I don't know what you mean by cyclist shoes. I wear sneakers, just normal sneakers. I also wear leggings or skin-hugging shorts, because otherwise I get chafing on my thighs from constant peddling up and down against the bike seat.

4. You're running in the street, at probably around 6-7mph. A bicycle is riding, usually between 13-17mph. A golf cart is driving between 17-20mph. And a car is driving at 20-45mph. If they're all approaching each other, whether from behind or in front, then everyone has to squeeze in so everyone fits and has room to pass each other. It has to be paced, timed so that no one ends up tipped over and injured. The pedestrian has the easiest job of stopping or getting out of the way. That's just physics. The golf cart has the second easiest job of stopping or getting out of the way. The car has the third easiest job. And the bicycle - has the hardest time either stopping or getting out of the way.

So cut those cyclists some slack. If you see them coming toward you, get as close to the edge of the path as you can. In fact, if it's safe to get on the grass, then get on the grass. YOU won't be inconvenienced even a smidge.
I don’t understand why a runner or a walker rather use the street than a sidewalk or path?

[Priebehouse]

Excellent opening post. It would be good to see more such. Engaging in dialogue is better than spewing anger.

Lots of roads and streets in Minnesota have dedicated bicycle lanes where only bicycle traffic is allowed. I haven't been to many places yet in Florida but I've not seen them here. While they don't solve all problems those lanes do help. The problem is that not all streets have them and there are bicyclists up there who insist on riding their bicycles on streets with no bike lanes--during rush hour traffic. Rush hour in downtown Minneapolis, as in most large cities I imagine, can become nightmarish, and there is a lot of resentment from motorists when bicyclists are navigating those streets two abreast and going much slower than the vehicular traffic. It doesn't make a lot of sense: driving in rush hour there is hurry-up-and-wait most of the time, but there have been numerous incidents when that resentment boils over into out-and-out rage, with bicycles bumped off streets by cars, quite a few injuries of bicyclists, and some deaths.

When it is bicycle vs. car, bicycle loses every time.

My ONLY problem are the ones who ride in "packs" (sometimes 15 - 20 or more in the pack), three and four abreast and disregard the road rules on major thoroughfares (e.g.:ho: Buena Vista Blvd) . In the event they do stop at a signal when there is a car in the right lane, they get upset if the car turns right and inhibits their forward progress. These are the folks that create the distain for cyclists. You know who you are.

[Laker14]

Why was it when I was a following a group of bicyclists in my golf cart on and MMP that one or more of them would move over to the left every time I tried to pass them? They were going about 13 mph and my cart goes 20 but they wouldn't allow me to pass for over two miles.

If you had a clear lane all to yourself, where you wouldn't have to share the lane with the cyclist, and you knew you could pass safely, they were wrong in doing that. If you were trying to squeeze in between the cyclist and oncoming traffic, or trying to squeeze in between the cyclist and the left hand curb, in an area where the MMP is divided, then they were within their rights to take the lane and prevent you from giving them the squeeze.

If it's a really long line of cyclists, and I can safely pass some, but not all, I pass who I can pass, and when I need to get back into the lane, I signal and slowly reenter the lane. I expect the long line of bicycles to give me some room to get back in. I respected their space, and now they have to respect mine.
I signal, and come back slowly, giving them time to give me room with no abrupt braking on their part required. I have never encountered hostility from the cyclists doing this.

[Laker14]

I guess that “taking my lane thing” can work for more than just bikers. What bothers me is the “taking my lane” thing on the MMP’s where there is only one lane. Regardless of your form of transportation, if there is only one lane and you are going slower than the person behind you, get out of the way! That includes the golf carts that like to drive slow and then floor it when you try to pass them.

Where there is only one lane is precisely where the "taking the lane" is a must for the biker. Otherwise carts will try to squeeze between the left curb and the bike.
That's a no-no. The cart has to wait until there are two lanes, and no oncoming traffic in order to pass safely.

[mydavid]

Cyclists, in my experience, have earned their reputation. Especially when they are riding in their massive pelotons, these Lance Armstrong wannabes blatantly ignore stop signs, hold up traffic, and arrogantly "Take the lane."

They complain about cars passing them too closely or that they alone should take up an entire vehicular travel lane, but they are also the worst violators.

When I was running dozens of miles per week during marathon training build-ups, they would zoom past me and purposely try to skim shoulders as they did so. Their attempts to intimidate me out of my run often led to me sticking my arms straight out as they passed, and they were none-too-happy about being clothes-lined in that fashion. However, I was just "taking my lane."

Cyclist is just another way of saying arrogant jerk, and dorky looking loser. Clicking around in their little cycle shoes and tight clothes like teen aged girls in high heels walking on the dance floor.

Not here to start a war, but you did open the door to the topic. So, reiterating, I think they have earned their reputation and the disdain of all other road users. I think many ride just so they can ware thoes dorky outfits and head gear.:clap2:

[Gladys Turnip]

[QUOTE=kkimball;2090031]Here are my (opinionated) answers to common cycling questions I've seen recently on this forum.

If you have more questions, post them here, and I'll answer them as best I can.

Dear OP - I'm a walker, and my question concerns the walking paths in the south end of the The Villages (not the MMPs, but the narrower paths that only allow walkers and bikers, no golf carts; for example the Hogeye Sink Pathway).

I understand the need to share these paths, but they are very narrow. My question is, why do so many bike riders not say "On Your Left" as they zoom past, just off the shoulder of walkers? It's very dangerous.

I'd estimate that 50% of bike riders (the considerate ones) provide a nice, clear, robust "On Your Left" announcement as they approach a walker. When I hear that, I move over even further to my right to ensure that the biker has plenty of room. (I also always give a nice loud "thank you" to the biker for providing the warning.)

The other 50% of bike riders however, never say a word and just fly by, often only inches from a walker. As I said it's very dangerous for both the walker and the rider. It would seem to take very little effort for a biker to open their mouth and provide a quick safety warning.

Any thoughts? Thanks.

[golfing eagles]

The reality. Stop sign. You are supposed to come to a complete stop even with the stop sign. Then, as is often the case you may need to go past there in order to see. Proper stopping for a stop sign I doubt you will see anyone do that.

Unlike a car or golf cart a bike that is not motorized some of them really should be forced to be registered vehicles with plates and insurance. A bike, a human powered one cannot accelerate quickly from a dead stop. At a stop sign, you need to be concerned with the traffic in front of you as well as cars or golf carts who will decide to drive around you.

In other words, that is an excuse for breaking the same law that cyclists expect everyone else to follow?????

[toeser]

Why was it when I was a following a group of bicyclists in my golf cart on and MMP that one or more of them would move over to the left every time I tried to pass them? They were going about 13 mph and my cart goes 20 but they wouldn't allow me to pass for over two miles.

I am a cyclist who rides seven days per week. If I had been in a golf cart behind such a group, I would have been tempted to lay on my horn until they let me pass. Cyclists like them give the rest of us a bad name.

[toeser]

[QUOTE=kkimball;2090031]Here are my (opinionated) answers to common cycling questions I've seen recently on this forum.

If you have more questions, post them here, and I'll answer them as best I can.

Dear OP - I'm a walker, and my question concerns the walking paths in the south end of the The Villages (not the MMPs, but the narrower paths that only allow walkers and bikers, no golf carts; for example the Hogeye Sink Pathway).

I understand the need to share these paths, but they are very narrow. My question is, why do so many bike riders not say "On Your Left" as they zoom past, just off the shoulder of walkers? It's very dangerous.

I'd estimate that 50% of bike riders (the considerate ones) provide a nice, clear, robust "On Your Left" announcement as they approach a walker. When I hear that, I move over even further to my right to ensure that the biker has plenty of room. (I also always give a nice loud "thank you" to the biker for providing the warning.)

The other 50% of bike riders however, never say a word and just fly by, often only inches from a walker. As I said it's very dangerous for both the walker and the rider. It would seem to take very little effort for a biker to open their mouth and provide a quick safety warning.

Any thoughts? Thanks.


It's not only walkers who have to contend with these inconsiderate riders, it's other riders as well. I have had other bikers (road bikes) zoom by me on my left with no warning whatsoever. I have a mirror, but sometimes I miss their approach. I always give out passing warnings.

[villager7591]

Just a note-often, an "on your left" statement sometimes startles the walkers and they turn into the path of the cyclist. Sp please do not necessarily judge the cyclist negatively. They do not want to run into walkers.

[wsachs]

My problem is with those electric bikes. they are quiet and fast. At least three times yesterday while walking the Hogeye path towards Edna's and back, those bikes came from behind and whizzed by without even a horn or bell to warn us. Just a grunt as they went by. Some weren't even peddling, just going almost as fast as a golf cart. Manners?

[thevillages2013]

jerks dont stop so i domt stop and just keep on ridding right on and dont stop on my golf cart

Put the bottle down

[Gladys Turnip]

Just a note-often, an "on your left" statement sometimes startles the walkers and they turn into the path of the cyclist. Sp please do not necessarily judge the cyclist negatively. They do not want to run into walkers.

"On Your Left" does not // will not startle a walker or endanger anyone as long as it it given a sufficient distance in advance. This gives the walker time to slide a bit more to the right (to make both safe). The startling happens when the first thing the walker knows about the bike is when it is passing him/her, just inches away to the left.

A loud, robust "On Your Left" provided far enough in advance is courteous and will keep both walker and biker safe.

[thevillages2013]

Looks like you failed...

Admits he is the Devil right there in his username. I agree with most of his posts however. Does that mean I’m No Angel. No reference to Gregg Allman

[Accidental1]

[QUOTE=kkimball;2090031]Here are my (opinionated) answers to common cycling questions I've seen recently on this forum.

If you have more questions, post them here, and I'll answer them as best I can.

Dear OP - I'm a walker, and my question concerns the walking paths in the south end of the The Villages (not the MMPs, but the narrower paths that only allow walkers and bikers, no golf carts; for example the Hogeye Sink Pathway).

I understand the need to share these paths, but they are very narrow. My question is, why do so many bike riders not say "On Your Left" as they zoom past, just off the shoulder of walkers? It's very dangerous.

I'd estimate that 50% of bike riders (the considerate ones) provide a nice, clear, robust "On Your Left" announcement as they approach a walker. When I hear that, I move over even further to my right to ensure that the biker has plenty of room. (I also always give a nice loud "thank you" to the biker for providing the warning.)

The other 50% of bike riders however, never say a word and just fly by, often only inches from a walker. As I said it's very dangerous for both the walker and the rider. It would seem to take very little effort for a biker to open their mouth and provide a quick safety warning.

Any thoughts? Thanks.

I’ll share my thoughts on this because I walk these paths frequently. I like bikers that use bells to alert walkers. Whether they use bells or say “on the left” it should be done well away from the walkers so as not to startle them. Actually, It makes sense to me to treat the walk/cycle paths like walking on a street and walk to the left facing oncoming wheeled traffic.

[dewilson58]

My problem is with those electric bikes. they are quiet and fast. At least three times yesterday while walking the Hogeye path towards Edna's and back, those bikes came from behind and whizzed by without even a horn or bell to warn us. Just a grunt as they went by. Some weren't even peddling, just going almost as fast as a golf cart. Manners?

Walker should be on the left side, biker should be on the right side of the path.

:shrug:

Like an electric cart...........I can hear the bike coming.

(I'm not an electric bike owner)

[ThirdOfFive]

Bottom line: if everybody--automobile, golf cart, motorcycle, bicycle, e-bike, segway, scooter, walker, runner--would both KNOW and OBEY the rules of the road, we'd all be a whole lot safer. many of the above share the same roadways or MMPs, and ALL of them share the intersections.

That--and keep your head in the game. I witnessed a pretty nasty car-golf cart accident a few weeks back, where a golf cart stopped for a stop sign (four-way intersection but only a three-way stop) dutifully stopped at the stop sign, then accelerated into the intersection completely oblivious to the fact that the guy in the SUV coming from the right, who DIDN'T have a stop sign, didn't stop. The SUV rammed the golf cart on the passenger side probably less than a foot ahead of the passenger seat of the golf cart. Luckily there were no injuries, though the cart was totaled, but that was merely a matter of luck. Had the cart been two feet ahead of where it was hit, there would surely have been some serious injuries.

Someone in this thread made an observation to the effect that there are few real accidents. I wholeheartedly agree with that.

[Gladys Turnip]

[QUOTE=dewilson58;2090500]Walker should be on the left side, biker should be on the right side of the path.

:shrug:

Like an electric cart...........I can the bike coming.

We have walked/hiked all over the USA and if you are walking on a real road (that is, with automobiles) or MMP (with golf carts) you are supposed to walk on left (into traffic).

But when walking on sidewalks and paths that only allow walkers & bikers, both are supposed to stay to the right, in which case bikes (and runners) pass on the left (while providing a robust warning, well in advance, like the universal "On Your Left").

BTW, this is also the process followed by 90% of the walkers here in The Villages. Now if only more bikers could provide the requisite warning call.

[Bill14564]

"On Your Left" does not // will not startle a walker or endanger anyone as long as it it given a sufficient distance in advance. This gives the walker time to slide a bit more to the right (to make both safe). The startling happens when the first thing the walker knows about the bike is when it is passing him/her, just inches away to the left.

A loud, robust "On Your Left" provided far enough in advance is courteous and will keep both walker and biker safe.

A loud, robust "On Your Left" *will* startle some, including me. Any loud, robust sound will startle some. If given enough in advance then the walker can recover from being startled and all is good.

Three possible concerns:
1. If given too close, the announcement could startle the walker causing them to move the wrong direction
2. Some may not hear the announcement over the music they are listening to.
3. Not everyone has a loud, robust voice

Still, a loud, robust "On Your Left" will help more often than it will hurt.

[dnptrll]

I am more than willing to allow bike riders the 3 foot allowance as I pass in my vehicle. It would be appropriate if the bike rider did not crowd the white line making that allowance impossible for a car in some instances.

Hand signals are wonderful indicators as to what the bike rider intends to do at any given intersection;
an outstretched right arm or a raised bent left arm signals a right turn
an outstretched left arm indicates a left turn
a lowered bent left arm indicates a stop.
We all learned those as children and would do well to use them as adults.

[dewilson58]

But when walking on sidewalks and paths that only allow walkers & bikers, both are supposed to stay to the right, in which case bikes (and runners) pass on the left (while providing a robust warning, well in advance, like the universal "On Your Left").

With the injection of electric bikes (going 20mph) on these paths, and if you can't hear them coming, your old "suppose to" may not be wise or defensive as a walker.

[Topgun 1776]

Why was it when I was a following a group of bicyclists in my golf cart on and MMP that one or more of them would move over to the left every time I tried to pass them? They were going about 13 mph and my cart goes 20 but they wouldn't allow me to pass for over two miles.
If it was recently going down Meggison, this was a group of 100 E-cyclists (in 3-4 large groups) that had no idea about courtesy. We were on our bikes going the opposite direction and we were yelling at them to get over and let the string of carts go through because they were going the speed you indicated.
FROM A CYCLIST TO CYCLISTS....on the MMP...get over and let the carts go through! You are creating a dangerous bottleneck.
Thanks!

[Waltdisney4life]

Great Opening post the comment not so great

[srswans]

[QUOTE=Gladys Turnip;2090477]

I’ll share my thoughts on this because I walk these paths frequently. I like bikers that use bells to alert walkers. Whether they use bells or say “on the left” it should be done well away from the walkers so as not to startle them. Actually, It makes sense to me to treat the walk/cycle paths like walking on a street and walk to the left facing oncoming wheeled traffic.

No, no, no - walk on the right on pathways

[kkimball]

It's good to see the wide range of opinions and insight. As promised, here are my (still opinionated) answers to your questions:

Q: Why don't cyclists call out "on your left" when passing?
A: They should. It does startle some people. I think bells are better.

Q: Why won't the cyclist allow me to pass in the same lane?
A: Most likely, they don't feel safe allowing you to pass. You need to respect their decision just like you would for any other vehicle. Please don't yell or lay on your horn. That's not fun for anyone.

Q: Why should cyclists be allowed on the road if they don't pay fuel taxes?
A: Cyclists own cars and pay the same taxes as everyone else. If this is a genuine concern, electric car owners also need to get off the road.

Q: If cyclists want a better workout, why not get a heavy bike?
A: Heavy bikes are not as fun to ride.

Q: Why don't cyclists stop at stop signs?
A: They should, and the law requires it; however, many cyclists will roll through a stop sign when it's obvious the coast is clear because regaining momentum after a stop is not fun.

Q: Why do cyclists wear dorky outfits?
A: Every sport has its specialized gear. Some are dorkier than others. Road cycling clothing is comfortable, breathable, and aerodynamic. The bright, reflective colors make it easier to see cyclists, and the cycling industry loves to brand their gear. Yes, it's very dorky.

Q: Why do cyclists wear clicky shoes?
A: The clicky shoes clip into the pedals and allow power transfer throughout the pedal stroke. No one likes walking in them.

I'll keep an eye out for more questions in this thread. Please repost if I missed yours.

[GRACEALLEMAN]

Cyclists, in my experience, have earned their reputation. Especially when they are riding in their massive pelotons, these Lance Armstrong wannabes blatantly ignore stop signs, hold up traffic, and arrogantly "Take the lane."

They complain about cars passing them too closely or that they alone should take up an entire vehicular travel lane, but they are also the worst violators.

When I was running dozens of miles per week during marathon training build-ups, they would zoom past me and purposely try to skim shoulders as they did so. Their attempts to intimidate me out of my run often led to me sticking my arms straight out as they passed, and they were none-too-happy about being clothes-lined in that fashion. However, I was just "taking my lane."

Cyclist is just another way of saying arrogant jerk, and dorky looking loser. Clicking around in their little cycle shoes and tight clothes like teen aged girls in high heels walking on the dance floor.

Not here to start a war, but you did open the door to the topic. So, reiterating, I think they have earned their reputation and the disdain of all other road users.
We like to ride our bikes everyday 8 miles..on MMPs...but we are not so much called "cyclists" But we agree with every single word that you said. We are from Portland Oregon. Enough said.

[Mortal1]

Here are my (opinionated) answers to common cycling questions I've seen recently on this forum.

If you have more questions, post them here, and I'll answer them as best I can.

Q: Why don't cyclists stick to the MMPs?
A: The MMPs are great for a casual ride, but the frequent stops and corners make for a slow ride. Many cyclists prefer the open roads because they can go faster and get a better workout.

Q: Why do people ride bikes when it's so dangerous?
A: Every activity has some amount of risk. Cyclists know and have accepted the risk. My opinion is that The Villages is safer than other areas because motorists are more accustomed to seeing cyclists on the road.

Q: Why do cyclists ride down the middle of the lane?
A: Because they don't want to be passed in *their* lane. Motorists should move to the lane on the left before passing a cyclist in the right lane and only pass when it's safe. Please be patient and always give cyclists at least 3-feet of clearance when passing.

Q: Why don't cyclists follow the rules of the road?
A: They absolutely should, but like motorists, cyclists sometimes don't pay attention as much as they should or outright skirt the rules.

Q: Why don't cyclists have more lights so seeing them is easier?
A: They should. Brighter tail lights and headlights are a good idea. When riding earlier or later in the day, wearing bright colored LED lights is also a good idea.

Q: What happened to ABC cyclist that got hit on XYZ road?
A: Most accidents are not widely reported.

Q: Why are cyclists so arrogant?
A: Cyclists are people, and some of them are arrogant. Most are not, in my experience.

These are my opinions and observations. I'm happy to hear yours.

cyclists are not supposed to ride abreast of each other, cyclists do not have the right to a whole lane(that is part of the arrogance you yourself ignore), cyclists should ride in single file(you want to take lead then do it when no traffic is present).

[CFrance]

(snipped)

Additionally, stopping and dodging, even slowing for traffic lights causes a myriad of biomechanics issues to a body's dynamics when it is training at a high level. Have you ever watched a marathon? Do you really think they can just side-step an obstacle and not cause phenomenal counter-impacts to their tendons, ligaments, ankles, knees, and hips, never mind the break in breathing rhythm necessary to continue at a certain pace for many many miles.


If that's the case, that stopping or slowing ad dodging for traffic lights causes a myriad of biomechanics issues, etc., then the cyclist should not be on the road. It's both dangerous for him to NOT BE FOLLOWING the traffic laws (which are clearly stated cyclists must do), but it is dangerous for drivers who have equal rights as him to be on the streets

[ElDiabloJoe]

I don’t understand why a runner or a walker rather use the street than a sidewalk or path?

Because paths are short and sidewalks have the driveway up and downs and intersection curbs, not to mention uneven sidewalk cracks caused by roots - that constant uneven surface is murder on a runner's calves and shins and leads to injury. In addition, focusing on those dynamic surfaces takes away from the "in the zone" a runner's head strives to get into for training purposes. A serious runner is trying to focus on one's breathing patterns (breaths to steps ratios) to maximize oxygen exchange in the lungs and pace to increase performance

Remember, we are talking about MILES and MILES at a time. Only streets (and occasionally paths along an ocean) have the miles of non-stop, graded level terrain that allows a runner to truly train for distance racing.

[Glowfromminnesota]

Very true in Minnesota.

[Windguy]

Why have I not seen a bicycle stop at a sign in 7 years? Yes, never
Probably for the same reason that I have not seen a car or cart come to a complete stop at a stop sign unless cross traffic forced them to.

[EdFNJ]

I don’t understand why a runner or a walker rather use the street than a sidewalk or path? First you seem to be generalizing that all walkers/runners" prefer streets. Not the case. If it is concrete vs. blacktop (this has been covered many times here) the blacktop (street) is much more resilient than concrete (sidewalk) and much easier on the feet EVEN WITH TOP NOTCH RUNNING SHOES. If the "paths" you are referring to are the MMP's which ARE blacktop it makes no sense why a walker or runner would prefer the street over the blacktop MMP. Never seen a runner going down Morse or BV. :) If it's local blacktop streets with or without a diamond lane vs concrete sidewalks the streets will win for the reason above. Kinda why running tracks aren't made of concrete. Concrete is much harder on the bones & joints.

[Love2Swim]

Here are my (opinionated) answers to common cycling questions I've seen recently on this forum.

If you have more questions, post them here, and I'll answer them as best I can.

Q: Why don't cyclists stick to the MMPs?
A: The MMPs are great for a casual ride, but the frequent stops and corners make for a slow ride. Many cyclists prefer the open roads because they can go faster and get a better workout.

Q: Why do people ride bikes when it's so dangerous?
A: Every activity has some amount of risk. Cyclists know and have accepted the risk. My opinion is that The Villages is safer than other areas because motorists are more accustomed to seeing cyclists on the road.

Q: Why do cyclists ride down the middle of the lane?
A: Because they don't want to be passed in *their* lane. Motorists should move to the lane on the left before passing a cyclist in the right lane and only pass when it's safe. Please be patient and always give cyclists at least 3-feet of clearance when passing.

Q: Why don't cyclists follow the rules of the road?
A: They absolutely should, but like motorists, cyclists sometimes don't pay attention as much as they should or outright skirt the rules.

Q: Why don't cyclists have more lights so seeing them is easier?
A: They should. Brighter tail lights and headlights are a good idea. When riding earlier or later in the day, wearing bright colored LED lights is also a good idea.

Q: What happened to ABC cyclist that got hit on XYZ road?
A: Most accidents are not widely reported.

Q: Why are cyclists so arrogant?
A: Cyclists are people, and some of them are arrogant. Most are not, in my experience.

These are my opinions and observations. I'm happy to hear yours.

:bigbow: Great questions and answers. Thanks for taking the time to educate, or try to educate, the non-cycling community. Happy trails.

[admiral72]

s. 316.130 – Pedestrians; Traffic Regulations

(3) Where sidewalks are provided, no pedestrian shall, unless required by other circumstances, walk along and upon the portion of a roadway paved for vehicular traffic. see below


Here are my (opinionated) answers to common cycling questions I've seen recently on this forum.

If you have more questions, post them here, and I'll answer them as best I can.

Q: Why don't cyclists stick to the MMPs?
A: The MMPs are great for a casual ride, but the frequent stops and corners make for a slow ride. Many cyclists prefer the open roads because they can go faster and get a better workout.

Q: Why do people ride bikes when it's so dangerous?
A: Every activity has some amount of risk. Cyclists know and have accepted the risk. My opinion is that The Villages is safer than other areas because motorists are more accustomed to seeing cyclists on the road.

Q: Why do cyclists ride down the middle of the lane?
A: Because they don't want to be passed in *their* lane. Motorists should move to the lane on the left before passing a cyclist in the right lane and only pass when it's safe. Please be patient and always give cyclists at least 3-feet of clearance when passing.

Q: Why don't cyclists follow the rules of the road?
A: They absolutely should, but like motorists, cyclists sometimes don't pay attention as much as they should or outright skirt the rules.

Q: Why don't cyclists have more lights so seeing them is easier?
A: They should. Brighter tail lights and headlights are a good idea. When riding earlier or later in the day, wearing bright colored LED lights is also a good idea.

Q: What happened to ABC cyclist that got hit on XYZ road?
A: Most accidents are not widely reported.

Q: Why are cyclists so arrogant?
A: Cyclists are people, and some of them are arrogant. Most are not, in my experience.

These are my opinions and observations. I'm happy to hear yours.

s. 316.130 – Pedestrians; Traffic Regulations

(3) Where sidewalks are provided, no pedestrian shall, unless required by other circumstances, walk along and upon the portion of a roadway paved for vehicular traffic.

And paved shoulders are not allowed to be used by vehicles or runners/pedestrians just cyclists in Florida

Different rules apply to marked bicycle lanes

[admiral72]

Cyclists, in my experience, have earned their reputation. Especially when they are riding in their massive pelotons, these Lance Armstrong wannabes blatantly ignore stop signs, hold up traffic, and arrogantly "Take the lane."

They complain about cars passing them too closely or that they alone should take up an entire vehicular travel lane, but they are also the worst violators.

When I was running dozens of miles per week during marathon training build-ups, they would zoom past me and purposely try to skim shoulders as they did so. Their attempts to intimidate me out of my run often led to me sticking my arms straight out as they passed, and they were none-too-happy about being clothes-lined in that fashion. However, I was just "taking my lane."

Cyclist is just another way of saying arrogant jerk, and dorky looking loser. Clicking around in their little cycle shoes and tight clothes like teen aged girls in high heels walking on the dance floor.

Not here to start a war, but you did open the door to the topic. So, reiterating, I think they have earned their reputation and the disdain of all other road users.

s. 316.130 – Pedestrians; Traffic Regulations

(3) Where sidewalks are provided, no pedestrian shall, unless required by other circumstances, walk along and upon the portion of a roadway paved for vehicular traffic.

And paved shoulders are not allowed to be used by vehicles or runners/pedestrians just cyclists in Florida

Different rules apply to marked bicycle lanes

[Bill14564]

cyclists are not supposed to ride abreast of each other, cyclists do not have the right to a whole lane(that is part of the arrogance you yourself ignore), cyclists should ride in single file(you want to take lead then do it when no traffic is present).

Where did you get that information? It is wrong (see below). What book or website or official is providing misinformation?


Florida law states:
- Depending on the width of the lane, bicyclists may have the right to the whole lane: 316.2065(5)(a)3. Most (all?) roads around the Villages are of "substandard" width.
- Cyclists may not ride *more* than two abreast: 316.2065(6)(a)

[Bill14564]

s. 316.130 – Pedestrians; Traffic Regulations

(3) Where sidewalks are provided, no pedestrian shall, unless required by other circumstances, walk along and upon the portion of a roadway paved for vehicular traffic.

And paved shoulders are not allowed to be used by vehicles or runners/pedestrians just cyclists in Florida

Different rules apply to marked bicycle lanes

Hard to believe you didn't read the very next sentence in that statute:
(4) Where sidewalks are not provided, any pedestrian walking along and upon a highway shall, when practicable, walk only on the shoulder on the left side of the roadway in relation to the pedestrian’s direction of travel, facing traffic which may approach from the opposite direction.

If you don't believe that applies then which statute says that paved shoulders are reserved for bicyclists only?

[kendi]

Why have I not seen a bicycle stop at a sign in 7 years? Yes, never

Maybe because you don’t notice those who follow the rules, only the ones who don’t.

[MX rider]

I don’t understand why a runner or a walker rather use the street than a sidewalk or path?

I don't get that either. I've been running for 41 years. Given the choice I always opt for a sidewalk when available. We have mountain bikes at our home in TV. We ride the MM paths quite a bit and have no issues for the most part, but it's casual riding. We would rather bike than use a car or golf cart.

When we want a more intense ride we simply drive to Santos Trailhead and ride the trails there. Awesome place, and all we have to worry about is other riders and trees. lol.

I've been riding motorcycles since I was 10. I still love riding my dirt bike but I gave up street riding 8 years ago. Too many bad, distracted and impaired drivers.

[Rodneysblue]

Here are my (opinionated) answers to common cycling questions I've seen recently on this forum.

If you have more questions, post them here, and I'll answer them as best I can.

Q: Why don't cyclists stick to the MMPs?
A: The MMPs are great for a casual ride, but the frequent stops and corners make for a slow ride. Many cyclists prefer the open roads because they can go faster and get a better workout.

Q: Why do people ride bikes when it's so dangerous?
A: Every activity has some amount of risk. Cyclists know and have accepted the risk. My opinion is that The Villages is safer than other areas because motorists are more accustomed to seeing cyclists on the road.

Q: Why do cyclists ride down the middle of the lane?
A: Because they don't want to be passed in *their* lane. Motorists should move to the lane on the left before passing a cyclist in the right lane and only pass when it's safe. Please be patient and always give cyclists at least 3-feet of clearance when passing.

Q: Why don't cyclists follow the rules of the road?
A: They absolutely should, but like motorists, cyclists sometimes don't pay attention as much as they should or outright skirt the rules.

Q: Why don't cyclists have more lights so seeing them is easier?
A: They should. Brighter tail lights and headlights are a good idea. When riding earlier or later in the day, wearing bright colored LED lights is also a good idea.

Q: What happened to ABC cyclist that got hit on XYZ road?
A: Most accidents are not widely reported.

Q: Why are cyclists so arrogant?
A: Cyclists are people, and some of them are arrogant. Most are not, in my experience.

These are my opinions and observations. I'm happy to hear yours.

I remember seeing this when I was researching riding in Florida. Florida Bicycle Laws, was posted in the Gainesville Cycling Club.

Roadway Position (see Section 316.2065, F.S.)

A bicyclist who is not traveling at the same speed of other traffic must ride in the lane marked
for bicycle use or, if no lane is marked for bicycle use, as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except in the following situations: when passing, making a left turn, to avoid road hazards, or when a lane is too narrow for a bicycle and a car to share safely.
A bicyclist operating on a one-way street with two or more traffic lanes may ride as close to the left-hand edge of the roadway as practicable.
Persons riding bicycles upon a roadway shall not ride more than two abreast except on paths or parts of roadways set aside for the exclusive use of bicycles. Persons riding two abreast shall not impede traffic when traveling at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions existing, and shall ride within a single lane.
This was copied from the Gainesville Cycleing Club’s website.

[EdFNJ]

s. 316.130 – Pedestrians; Traffic Regulations

(3) Where sidewalks are provided, no pedestrian shall, unless required by other circumstances, walk along and upon the portion of a roadway paved for vehicular traffic. see below




s. 316.130 – Pedestrians; Traffic Regulations

(3) Where sidewalks are provided, no pedestrian shall, unless required by other circumstances, walk along and upon the portion of a roadway paved for vehicular traffic.

And paved shoulders are not allowed to be used by vehicles or runners/pedestrians just cyclists in Florida

Different rules apply to marked bicycle lanes Correct and has been posted ad nauseam however there are also laws governing speed limits, proper use of turn signals, stopping at stop signs, declaring all one's income, littering, keeping to the right, spitting, urinating in public, putting up illegal signs, golf carts capable of exceeding 20mph, making noise after hours, unleashed dogs and many others as well which I am sure everyone follows to the "T". ;)

[Laker14]

I remember seeing this when I was researching riding in Florida. Florida Bicycle Laws, was posted in the Gainesville Cycling Club.

Roadway Position (see Section 316.2065, F.S.)

A bicyclist who is not traveling at the same speed of other traffic must ride in the lane marked
for bicycle use or, if no lane is marked for bicycle use, as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except in the following situations: when passing, making a left turn, to avoid road hazards, or when a lane is too narrow for a bicycle and a car to share safely.
A bicyclist operating on a one-way street with two or more traffic lanes may ride as close to the left-hand edge of the roadway as practicable.
Persons riding bicycles upon a roadway shall not ride more than two abreast except on paths or parts of roadways set aside for the exclusive use of bicycles. Persons riding two abreast shall not impede traffic when traveling at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions existing, and shall ride within a single lane.
This was copied from the Gainesville Cycleing Club’s website.

It doesn't say who gets to determine when it's safe or not.

[Tbrazie]

Cyclists, in my experience, have earned their reputation. Especially when they are riding in their massive pelotons, these Lance Armstrong wannabes blatantly ignore stop signs, hold up traffic, and arrogantly "Take the lane."

They complain about cars passing them too closely or that they alone should take up an entire vehicular travel lane, but they are also the worst violators.

When I was running dozens of miles per week during marathon training build-ups, they would zoom past me and purposely try to skim shoulders as they did so. Their attempts to intimidate me out of my run often led to me sticking my arms straight out as they passed, and they were none-too-happy about being clothes-lined in that fashion. However, I was just "taking my lane."

Cyclist is just another way of saying arrogant jerk, and dorky looking loser. Clicking around in their little cycle shoes and tight clothes like teen aged girls in high heels walking on the dance floor.

Not here to start a war, but you did open the door to the topic. So, reiterating, I think they have earned their reputation and the disdain of all other road users.

Really, I am a cyclist and I very much take issue with your rant. It seems we have a many arrogant, selfish people out there of all kinds, but to characterize a group as all being that way is just unfair. Also, when I run, there is plenty of room for a cyclist to pass in the same lane as I. Only a jerk would closeline someone else under any conditions.

[Bill14564]

It doesn't say who gets to determine when it's safe or not.

Florida does: Section 316.083

[Vermilion Villager]

Why have I not seen a bicycle stop at a sign in 7 years? Yes, never I'm sure no one EVER has....because they don't!!!!

[Rodneysblue]

The 2021 Florida Statutes


Title XXIII
MOTOR VEHICLES
Chapter 316
STATE UNIFORM TRAFFIC CONTROL
View Entire Chapter
316.2065 Bicycle regulations.—
(1) Every person propelling a vehicle by human power has all of the rights and all of the duties applicable to the driver of any other vehicle under this chapter, except as to special regulations in this chapter, and except as to provisions of this chapter which by their nature can have no application.
(2) A person operating a bicycle may not ride other than upon or astride a permanent and regular seat attached thereto unless the bicycle was designed by the manufacturer to be ridden without a seat.
(3)(a) A bicycle may not be used to carry more persons at one time than the number for which it is designed or equipped, except that an adult rider may carry a child securely attached to his or her person in a backpack or sling.
(b) Except as provided in paragraph (a), a bicycle rider must carry any passenger who is a child under 4 years of age, or who weighs 40 pounds or less, in a seat or carrier that is designed to carry a child of that age or size and that secures and protects the child from the moving parts of the bicycle.
(c) A bicycle rider may not allow a passenger to remain in a child seat or carrier on a bicycle when the rider is not in immediate control of the bicycle.
(d) A bicycle rider or passenger who is under 16 years of age must wear a bicycle helmet that is properly fitted and is fastened securely upon the passenger’s head by a strap and that meets the federal safety standard for bicycle helmets, final rule, 16 C.F.R. part 1203. As used in this subsection, the term “passenger” includes a child who is riding in a trailer or semitrailer attached to a bicycle.
(e) Law enforcement officers and school crossing guards may issue a bicycle safety brochure and a verbal warning to a bicycle rider or passenger who violates this subsection. A bicycle rider or passenger who violates this subsection may be issued a citation by a law enforcement officer and assessed a fine for a pedestrian violation, as provided in s. 318.18. The court shall dismiss the charge against a bicycle rider or passenger for a first violation of paragraph (d) upon proof of purchase of a bicycle helmet that complies with this subsection.
(4) No person riding upon any bicycle, coaster, roller skates, sled, or toy vehicle may attach the same or himself or herself to any vehicle upon a roadway. This subsection does not prohibit attaching a bicycle trailer or bicycle semitrailer to a bicycle if that trailer or semitrailer is commercially available and has been designed for such attachment.
(5)(a) A person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing must ride in the bicycle lane or, if there is no bicycle lane on the roadway, as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except under any of the following situations:
1. When overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction.
2. When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.
3. When reasonably necessary to avoid any condition or potential conflict, including, but not limited to, a fixed or moving object, parked or moving vehicle, bicycle, pedestrian, animal, surface hazard, turn lane, or substandard-width lane, which makes it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge or within a bicycle lane. For the purposes of this subsection, a “substandard-width lane” is a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and another vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane.
(b) A person operating a bicycle upon a one-way highway with two or more marked traffic lanes may ride as near the left-hand curb or edge of such roadway as practicable.
(6)(a) Persons riding bicycles upon a roadway or in a bicycle lane may not ride more than two abreast except on a bicycle path. Persons riding two abreast may not impede traffic when traveling at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing and must ride within a single lane. Where bicycle lanes exist, persons riding bicycles may ride two abreast if both are able to remain within the bicycle lane. If the bicycle lane is too narrow to allow two persons riding bicycles to ride two abreast, the persons must ride single-file and within the bicycle lane. On roads that contain a substandard-width lane as defined in subparagraph (5)(a)3., persons riding bicycles may temporarily ride two abreast only to avoid hazards in the roadway or to overtake another person riding a bicycle.
(b) When stopping at a stop sign, persons riding bicycles in groups, after coming to a full stop and obeying all traffic laws, may proceed through the stop sign in a group of 10 or fewer at a time. Motor vehicle operators must allow one such group to travel through the intersection before moving forward.
(7) Every bicycle in use between sunset and sunrise shall be equipped with a lamp on the front exhibiting a white light visible from a distance of at least 500 feet to the front and a lamp and reflector on the rear each exhibiting a red light visible from a distance of 600 feet to the rear. A bicycle or its rider may be equipped with lights or reflectors in addition to those required by this section. A law enforcement officer may issue a bicycle safety brochure and a verbal warning to a bicycle rider who violates this subsection or may issue a citation and assess a fine for a pedestrian violation as provided in s. 318.18. The court shall dismiss the charge against a bicycle rider for a first violation of this subsection upon proof of purchase and installation of the proper lighting equipment.
(8) No parent of any minor child and no guardian of any minor ward may authorize or knowingly permit any such minor child or ward to violate any of the provisions of this section.
(9) A person propelling a vehicle by human power upon and along a sidewalk, or across a roadway upon and along a crosswalk, has all the rights and duties applicable to a pedestrian under the same circumstances.
(10) A person propelling a bicycle upon and along a sidewalk, or across a roadway upon and along a crosswalk, shall yield the right-of-way to any pedestrian and shall give an audible signal before overtaking and passing such pedestrian.
(11) No person upon roller skates, or riding in or by means of any coaster, toy vehicle, or similar device, may go upon any roadway except while crossing a street on a crosswalk; and, when so crossing, such person shall be granted all rights and shall be subject to all of the duties applicable to pedestrians.
(12) This section shall not apply upon any street while set aside as a play street authorized herein or as designated by state, county, or municipal authority.
(13) Every bicycle shall be equipped with a brake or brakes which will enable its rider to stop the bicycle within 25 feet from a speed of 10 miles per hour on dry, level, clean pavement.
(14) A person engaged in the business of selling bicycles at retail shall not sell any bicycle unless the bicycle has an identifying number permanently stamped or cast on its frame.
(15)(a) A person may not knowingly rent or lease any bicycle to be ridden by a child who is under the age of 16 years unless:
1. The child possesses a bicycle helmet; or
2. The lessor provides a bicycle helmet for the child to wear.
(b) A violation of this subsection is a nonmoving violation, punishable as provided in s. 318.18.
(16) The court may waive, reduce, or suspend payment of any fine imposed under subsection (3) or subsection (15) and may impose any other conditions on the waiver, reduction, or suspension. If the court finds that a person does not have sufficient funds to pay the fine, the court may require the performance of a specified number of hours of community service or attendance at a safety seminar.
(17) Notwithstanding s. 318.21, all proceeds collected pursuant to s. 318.18 for violations under paragraphs (3)(e) and (15)(b) shall be deposited into the State Transportation Trust Fund.
(18) The failure of a person to wear a bicycle helmet or the failure of a parent or guardian to prevent a child from riding a bicycle without a bicycle helmet may not be considered evidence of negligence or contributory negligence.
(19) Except as otherwise provided in this section, a person who violates this section commits a noncriminal traffic infraction, punishable as a pedestrian violation as provided in chapter 318. A law enforcement officer may issue traffic citations for a violation of subsection (3) or subsection (15) only if the violation occurs on a bicycle path or road, as defined in s. 334.03. However, a law enforcement officer may not issue citations to persons on private property, except any part thereof which is open to the use of the public for purposes of vehicular traffic.
History.—s. 1, ch. 71-135; s. 1, ch. 76-31; s. 2, ch. 76-286; s. 1, ch. 78-353; s. 8, ch. 83-68; s. 5, ch. 85-309; s. 1, ch. 86-23; s. 7, ch. 87-161; s. 21, ch. 94-306; s. 899, ch. 95-148; s. 1, ch. 96-185; s. 2, ch. 97-300; s. 161, ch. 99-248; s. 6, ch. 2010-223; s. 7, ch. 2012-27; s. 6, ch. 2012-181; s. 7, ch. 2020-69; s. 1, ch. 2021-20; s. 5, ch. 2021-180.
Note.—Former s. 316.111.

[rustyp]

Why all the hubbub ? Cycling in The Villages is just nature's way of voluntarily culling the herd. Fewer people lessens the negative impacts on the planet.

[ElDiabloJoe]

Really, I am a cyclist and I very much take issue with your rant. Of course you do. seems we have a many arrogant, selfish people out there of all kinds, but to characterize a group as all being that way is just unfair. If the shoe fits. when I run, there is plenty of room for a cyclist to pass in the same lane as I. me, not I. "...to pass in the same lane as me." a jerk would closeline someone else under any conditions.But it's okay for them to sideswipe me, a vulnerable pedestrian wearing no helmet or other PPE? I guess it makes them feel like vroom-vroom a racecar passing a competitor or some other form of superiority? I have no idea why they do it, really, I just have experienced that they do do it. Am I to remain defenseless?

[JimmyO3]

So much anger, WOW
In my five plus years of cycling I never witnessed any negative behavior toward walkers or joggers.
When in large groups (peloton) on two lane roads we always either stayed in a tight mass or split into two or more groups, leaving space in between for passing vehicles.

THERE IS ENOUGH ROOM FOR ALL OF US!

Lighten up and enjoy retirement.

[KarenandJohn]

Great answers!

[KarenandJohn]

Kkimball, absolutely correct. I’m a cyclist and while driving on Buena Vista crossing 466A, told a cyclist who blew through a red light that he gives cyclists a bad name and should follow the rules of the road. He gave me the finger. That says volumns about him as a person and not cyclists in general.

[Laker14]

I remember seeing this when I was researching riding in Florida. Florida Bicycle Laws, was posted in the Gainesville Cycling Club.

Roadway Position (see Section 316.2065, F.S.)

A bicyclist who is not traveling at the same speed of other traffic must ride in the lane marked
for bicycle use or, if no lane is marked for bicycle use, as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except in the following situations: when passing, making a left turn, to avoid road hazards, or when a lane is too narrow for a bicycle and a car to share safely.
A bicyclist operating on a one-way street with two or more traffic lanes may ride as close to the left-hand edge of the roadway as practicable.
Persons riding bicycles upon a roadway shall not ride more than two abreast except on paths or parts of roadways set aside for the exclusive use of bicycles. Persons riding two abreast shall not impede traffic when traveling at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions existing, and shall ride within a single lane.
This was copied from the Gainesville Cycleing Club’s website.

It doesn't say who gets to determine when it's safe or not.

Florida does: Section 316.083

Where in those 10,000 words does it address when a lane is too narrow for both a car and a bike to pass safely?

[JMintzer]

You didn't answer any questions, you gave your opinion. Your opinion is wrong on several levels because you are biased. If you were being honest and not opinionated the answers would be quite different.

To whom are you responding?

[Laker14]

You didn't answer any questions, you gave your opinion. Your opinion is wrong on several levels because you are biased. If you were being honest and not opinionated the answers would be quite different.

To whom are you responding?

It's a generic post. It applies to everyone. (except me).

[admiral72]

Where did you get that information? It is wrong (see below). What book or website or official is providing misinformation?


Florida law states:
- Depending on the width of the lane, bicyclists may have the right to the whole lane: 316.2065(5)(a)3. Most (all?) roads around the Villages are of "substandard" width.
- Cyclists may not ride *more* than two abreast: 316.2065(6)(a)

Sorry but it comes direct from the Florida statute. Here is the link or just google the citation.

Statutes & Constitution
:View Statutes
:

Online Sunshine (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0300-0399/0316/Sections/0316.130.html)

There is a lot of misinformation out there but this is not. Here is what I put together:

I already gave you the rule pedestrians, walkers and runners are required to use sidewalks, if available.

I think I have a good understanding and wanted to confirm my review. Please let me know if anything I say is wrong.



Vehicle is a cart, car, motorcycle or moped.



Roadway is from yellow line to white line.



White line to curb is paved shoulder or berm.



There are no bike lanes where I live so I ride on paved berm or shoulder.



Vehicles must operate within roadways and not on the paved shoulder or berm. Pedestrians, walkers and runners are not allowed on the road or paved shoulder if sidewalk available.



Carts are prohibited from operating on sidewalks.



Bikes may operate on sidewalks, roadways or on paved shoulders unless required to only use a marked bike lane..

Please share the road and use common sense. Nothing in the law should be relied on when lives are at stake.

Avoid the risk of collision and, if you are not sure, assume there is a risk.

[Bill14564]

Where in those 10,000 words does it address when a lane is too narrow for both a car and a bike to pass safely?

Vehicles are required to give a minimum space of three feet when passing a cyclist. A 6' wide car, a 3' wide cyclist, and a 3' space would mean a lane width of 12' at a bare minimum to be safe. The lanes on Morse appear to be 11'.

[Laker14]

Sorry but it comes direct from the Florida statute. Here is the link or just google the citation.

Statutes & Constitution
:View Statutes
:

Online Sunshine (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0300-0399/0316/Sections/0316.130.html)

There is a lot of misinformation out there but this is not. Here is what I put together:

I already gave you the rule pedestrians, walkers and runners are required to use sidewalks, if available.

I think I have a good understanding and wanted to confirm my review. Please let me know if anything I say is wrong.



Vehicle is a cart, car, motorcycle or moped.



Roadway is from yellow line to white line.



White line to curb is paved shoulder or berm.



There are no bike lanes where I live so I ride on paved berm or shoulder.



Vehicles must operate within roadways and not on the paved shoulder or berm. Pedestrians, walkers and runners are not allowed on the road or paved shoulder if sidewalk available.



Carts are prohibited from operating on sidewalks.



Bikes may operate on sidewalks, roadways or on paved shoulders unless required to only use a marked bike lane..

Please share the road and use common sense. Nothing in the law should be relied on when lives are at stake.

Avoid the risk of collision and, if you are not sure, assume there is a risk.

I don't see where in your links the issue of bicycles running abreast is addressed.

[Bill14564]

Sorry but it comes direct from the Florida statute. Here is the link or just google the citation.

Statutes & Constitution
:View Statutes
:

Online Sunshine (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0300-0399/0316/Sections/0316.130.html)

There is a lot of misinformation out there but this is not. Here is what I put together:

I already gave you the rule pedestrians, walkers and runners are required to use sidewalks, if available.

I think I have a good understanding and wanted to confirm my review. Please let me know if anything I say is wrong.



Vehicle is a cart, car, motorcycle or moped.



Roadway is from yellow line to white line.



White line to curb is paved shoulder or berm.



There are no bike lanes where I live so I ride on paved berm or shoulder.



Vehicles must operate within roadways and not on the paved shoulder or berm. Pedestrians, walkers and runners are not allowed on the road or paved shoulder if sidewalk available.



Carts are prohibited from operating on sidewalks.



Bikes may operate on sidewalks, roadways or on paved shoulders unless required to only use a marked bike lane..

Please share the road and use common sense. Nothing in the law should be relied on when lives are at stake.

Avoid the risk of collision and, if you are not sure, assume there is a risk.

What point are you arguing? I made three points:

1. Bicycles can claim the entire lane - I provided the Statute that supports that
2. Bicycles can ride two abreast - I provided the Statute that supports that
3. Pedestrians may walk on the shoulder - I provided 316.130(4) which supports that

Pedestrians must use the sidewalk of one exists. If one does not exist then pedestrians must use the shoulder.

[Babubhat]

There is a clown who rides his bike on the sidewalk up and down pinellas. Gets annoyed by walkers.

[Laker14]

Perhaps you should have read instead of counting.

Vehicles are required to give a minimum space of three feet when passing a cyclist. A 6' wide car, a 3' wide cyclist, and a 3' space would mean a lane width of 12' at a bare minimum to be safe. The lanes on Morse appear to be 11'.

Is that specified in the link you referred to? What paragraph, what letter sub-heading. I'm not saying it's not there, just that I can't find it in all that verbiage on other subjects.

[Bill14564]

Is that specified in the link you referred to? What paragraph, what letter sub-heading. I'm not saying it's not there, just that I can't find it in all that verbiage on other subjects.

My apologies.

316.083 paragraphs (2) and (3):
(2) The driver of a vehicle overtaking a bicycle or other nonmotorized vehicle or an electric bicycle occupying the same travel lane must pass the bicycle or other nonmotorized vehicle or electric bicycle at a safe distance of not less than 3 feet or, if such movement cannot be safely accomplished, must remain at a safe distance behind the bicycle or other nonmotorized vehicle or electric bicycle until the driver can safely pass at a distance of not less than 3 feet and must safely clear the overtaken bicycle or other nonmotorized vehicle or electric bicycle.
(3) The driver of a vehicle overtaking a bicycle or other nonmotorized vehicle, or an electric bicycle, occupying a bicycle lane must pass the bicycle, other nonmotorized vehicle, or electric bicycle at a safe distance of not less than 3 feet between the vehicle and the bicycle, other nonmotorized vehicle, or electric bicycle.

[Laker14]

My apologies.

316.083 paragraphs (2) and (3):
(2) The driver of a vehicle overtaking a bicycle or other nonmotorized vehicle or an electric bicycle occupying the same travel lane must pass the bicycle or other nonmotorized vehicle or electric bicycle at a safe distance of not less than 3 feet or, if such movement cannot be safely accomplished, must remain at a safe distance behind the bicycle or other nonmotorized vehicle or electric bicycle until the driver can safely pass at a distance of not less than 3 feet and must safely clear the overtaken bicycle or other nonmotorized vehicle or electric bicycle.
(3) The driver of a vehicle overtaking a bicycle or other nonmotorized vehicle, or an electric bicycle, occupying a bicycle lane must pass the bicycle, other nonmotorized vehicle, or electric bicycle at a safe distance of not less than 3 feet between the vehicle and the bicycle, other nonmotorized vehicle, or electric bicycle.

No, MY apologies. I was looking at 316.0083 (missed that extra "0") which has nothing to do with overtaking bicycles.
BTW, you and I are on the same side in this argument. I just couldn't find your references because I was looking in the wrong place.

[golfing eagles]

It's good to see the wide range of opinions and insight. As promised, here are my (still opinionated) answers to your questions:

Q: Why don't cyclists call out "on your left" when passing?
A: They should. It does startle some people. I think bells are better.

Q: Why won't the cyclist allow me to pass in the same lane?
A: Most likely, they don't feel safe allowing you to pass. You need to respect their decision just like you would for any other vehicle. Please don't yell or lay on your horn. That's not fun for anyone.

Q: Why should cyclists be allowed on the road if they don't pay fuel taxes?
A: Cyclists own cars and pay the same taxes as everyone else. If this is a genuine concern, electric car owners also need to get off the road.

Q: If cyclists want a better workout, why not get a heavy bike?
A: Heavy bikes are not as fun to ride.

Q: Why don't cyclists stop at stop signs?
A: They should, and the law requires it; however, many cyclists will roll through a stop sign when it's obvious the coast is clear because regaining momentum after a stop is not fun.

Q: Why do cyclists wear dorky outfits?
A: Every sport has its specialized gear. Some are dorkier than others. Road cycling clothing is comfortable, breathable, and aerodynamic. The bright, reflective colors make it easier to see cyclists, and the cycling industry loves to brand their gear. Yes, it's very dorky.

Q: Why do cyclists wear clicky shoes?
A: The clicky shoes clip into the pedals and allow power transfer throughout the pedal stroke. No one likes walking in them.

I'll keep an eye out for more questions in this thread. Please repost if I missed yours.

I'll just address your highlighted "answer" Why does the cyclist get to be the dictator of when it is safe to pass. Maybe I think it is safe. Maybe he should respect my decision.

[Laker14]

I'll just address your highlighted "answer" Why does the cyclist get to be the dictator of when it is safe to pass. Maybe I think it is safe. Maybe he should respect my decision.

Because you aren't the one who is going to get injured if you are wrong.

[golfing eagles]

Because you aren't the one who is going to get injured if you are wrong.

Don't know that. If I'm wrong I may run head-on into a tree while the cyclist is unscathed.

[jimjamuser]

Here are my (opinionated) answers to common cycling questions I've seen recently on this forum.

If you have more questions, post them here, and I'll answer them as best I can.

Q: Why don't cyclists stick to the MMPs?
A: The MMPs are great for a casual ride, but the frequent stops and corners make for a slow ride. Many cyclists prefer the open roads because they can go faster and get a better workout.

Q: Why do people ride bikes when it's so dangerous?
A: Every activity has some amount of risk. Cyclists know and have accepted the risk. My opinion is that The Villages is safer than other areas because motorists are more accustomed to seeing cyclists on the road.

Q: Why do cyclists ride down the middle of the lane?
A: Because they don't want to be passed in *their* lane. Motorists should move to the lane on the left before passing a cyclist in the right lane and only pass when it's safe. Please be patient and always give cyclists at least 3-feet of clearance when passing.

Q: Why don't cyclists follow the rules of the road?
A: They absolutely should, but like motorists, cyclists sometimes don't pay attention as much as they should or outright skirt the rules.

Q: Why don't cyclists have more lights so seeing them is easier?
A: They should. Brighter tail lights and headlights are a good idea. When riding earlier or later in the day, wearing bright colored LED lights is also a good idea.

Q: What happened to ABC cyclist that got hit on XYZ road?
A: Most accidents are not widely reported.

Q: Why are cyclists so arrogant?
A: Cyclists are people, and some of them are arrogant. Most are not, in my experience.

These are my opinions and observations. I'm happy to hear yours.
About riding down the middle of the lane. If I am in a car behind a bicyclist and they are going as fast as the flow of cars are going ( say 35 in a posted 30 mph road because people go OVER the speed limit often) (or say 25 in a posted 20 mph road) then I have no problem staying behind that cyclist. However, if they are going 15 mph on a 30 mph road, then I and most other vehicle drivers are going to WANT to pass them.
.......I do not want to drive close to and endanger a cyclist. But, I would appreciate if they would move to their inside right (to be considerate of me) and I will move to my left when I pass (to be considerate of them). There should be a yard or more distance apart that way.
.......If a cyclist that is going slowly stays in the middle of the lane, then we will BOTH be delayed (going slowly) and I will have to wait until there is no oncoming traffic before I can pass.
.........When I ride a bicycle I know that I am SLOWER than the cars even in a residential area, so I ALWAYS move to the right. I go WAY to the right, even if I have to go about 1 foot onto someone's grass. Sorry grass, but I am more important than you. And I don't trust vehicles to pass me safely - I have had TOO many close calls even as a younger biker. I would even stop if I had to and wait until my road or street was clear. I have seen the older drivers here in cars or even golf cars weave far off the right edge of a street - they lose concentration easily.
........so, in conclusion.......I would NOT ride a bike down the middle of a road unless I could see behind me for a long-distance

[lpruettusa]

Cyclists, in my experience, have earned their reputation. Especially when they are riding in their massive pelotons, these Lance Armstrong wannabes blatantly ignore stop signs, hold up traffic, and arrogantly "Take the lane."

They complain about cars passing them too closely or that they alone should take up an entire vehicular travel lane, but they are also the worst violators.

When I was running dozens of miles per week during marathon training build-ups, they would zoom past me and purposely try to skim shoulders as they did so. Their attempts to intimidate me out of my run often led to me sticking my arms straight out as they passed, and they were none-too-happy about being clothes-lined in that fashion. However, I was just "taking my lane."

Cyclist is just another way of saying arrogant jerk, and dorky looking loser. Clicking around in their little cycle shoes and tight clothes like teen aged girls in high heels walking on the dance floor.

Not here to start a war, but you did open the door to the topic. So, reiterating, I think they have earned their reputation and the disdain of all other road users.

As a cyclist, I always give pedestrians plenty of space on both the multi purpose trails and when they are running in the road illegally. Unless you were training for the marathons on the multi purpose trails and NOT the roads, you were breaking the law. Unlike cyclists, pedestrians do NOT have right to use the roads for jogging. I'm sure neighborhood streets are considered an exception to the Florida Statutes. See the Florida Statutes, below.

The 2021 Florida Statutes
Title XXIII
MOTOR VEHICLES
Chapter 316
STATE UNIFORM TRAFFIC CONTROL
316.130 Pedestrians; traffic regulations.—
(3) Where sidewalks are provided, no pedestrian shall, unless required by other circumstances, walk along and upon the portion of a roadway paved for vehicular traffic.
(4) Where sidewalks are not provided, any pedestrian walking along and upon a highway shall, when practicable, walk only on the shoulder on the left side of the roadway in relation to the pedestrian’s direction of travel, facing traffic which may approach from the opposite direction.
(10) Every pedestrian crossing a roadway at any point other than within a marked crosswalk or within an unmarked crosswalk at an intersection shall yield the right-of-way to all vehicles upon the roadway.
(12) No pedestrian shall, except in a marked crosswalk, cross a roadway at any other place than by a route at right angles to the curb or by the shortest route to the opposite curb.

[lpruettusa]

1. The word peloton existed long before a company adopted it. Look it up.

2. ????

3. While looking up peloton, look up bicycling footwear too.

4. The four conveyances would never be side-by-side in a single lane. Only runners would be in the same lane as a bicycle, car, or golf cart. All the others would take up two lanes if side-by-side. Also, unless specifically indicated, the runner/pedestrian has as an equal right to be in the lane as any of the others.

Not according to Florida Laws.

[Bill14564]

///

[DrHitch]

Everyone who drives a car/truck is "autonomous".. you don't have a wingman...

All who fly fighter jets, bicycles and motorcycles always have that SEPARATE eyes and ears on situational awareness....

So, if one bicyclist on the MMP slides to the left, they are telling you it's unsafe to pass regardless of how fast you can accelerate and swerve past a pack...wait until there is a good long straightaway...patience, grasshopper!

[thevillages2013]

[QUOTE=OrangeBlossomBaby;2090215]

3. I don't know what you mean by cyclist shoes. I wear sneakers, just normal sneakers. I also wear leggings or skin-hugging shorts, because otherwise I get chafing on my thighs from constant peddling up and down against the bike seat.


Intriguing! Got any pictures you can share with the group. Not the shoes I’m not a weirdo:popcorn:

[thevillages2013]

Very true in Minnesota.

What?

[thevillages2013]

Great answers!

Who are you referring to?

[golfing eagles]

Everyone who drives a car/truck is "autonomous".. you don't have a wingman...

All who fly fighter jets, bicycles and motorcycles always have that SEPARATE eyes and ears on situational awareness....

So, if one bicyclist on the MMP slides to the left, they are telling you it's unsafe to pass regardless of how fast you can accelerate and swerve past a pack...wait until there is a good long straightaway...patience, grasshopper!

Again, I disagree. What makes the cyclist the sole judge of "when it is safe to pass"?
What makes the cyclists' judgement better??? My judgement is better than 99% of the drivers out there, so I feel absolutely no obligation to take "orders" from a random cyclist. THEY do not get to direct traffic. IF, again IF I decide to pass, it is only if I can give the cyclist at least 3 feet, and get back on my side of the MMP before any oncoming traffic approaches, and never in the single lane divided areas. IF, and again IF, a cyclist decides to move left as I am safely passing, that is on him. If you read one of the earlier posts in this thread, someone was stuck behind a cyclist for 2 miles. That is unacceptable, there is no way that the opportunity to pass did not arise in that span, yet the cyclist continually blocked the MMP (IF that post was truthful)

[dewilson58]

So, if one bicyclist on the MMP slides to the left, they are telling you it's unsafe to pass

OR, they are driving/riding under the influence.

:shrug:

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

About riding down the middle of the lane. If I am in a car behind a bicyclist and they are going as fast as the flow of cars are going ( say 35 in a posted 30 mph road because people go OVER the speed limit often) (or say 25 in a posted 20 mph road) then I have no problem staying behind that cyclist. However, if they are going 15 mph on a 30 mph road, then I and most other vehicle drivers are going to WANT to pass them.

Jim, if you are behind a car that's driving slower than the speed limit, and you want to go the speed limit, and you're in a no-passing zone - do you blow a gasket? Or do you just follow along, being somewhat annoyed but not bent out of shape, until the slow car turns off the road or you're finally allowed to pass them?

Or do you pass them illegally?

Or do you turn off the road and take a detour?

It is not illegal to go 15mph in a 30mph zone. I can't stand it, personally, when people go too slow. But I prefer going as fast as I can safely, regardless of some arbitrary number on a sign. In my case, I will gladly take the risk of being pulled over for speeding, rather than be in front of a line of cars that merely want to go the speed limit but can't because I'm driving too slow.

I'm willing to own my choices. But I also accept the choice of the slow driver who chooses to obey the law while still annoying the crap out of me in the process. There are plenty of car drivers, and golf cart drivers, who drive WAY too slowly. On Morse Blvd when the speed is 35mph, they might be driving in the passing lane at only 20mph with no sign of intention to take a left, not approaching a round-about. Just moseying along being in everyone's way.

You don't hear people beeping their horns, you don't see people getting road rage and shooting the slow driver, you don't see multiple posts expressing their anger in a tirade against these miscreants and deviants of our perfect society.

Instead, you usually just see people pass them on the right when they can, or eventually get to their destination 2 minutes later than planned.

[Laker14]

Again, I disagree. What makes the cyclist the sole judge of "when it is safe to pass"?
What makes the cyclists' judgement better??? My judgement is better than 99% of the drivers out there, so I feel absolutely no obligation to take "orders" from a random cyclist. THEY do not get to direct traffic. IF, again IF I decide to pass, it is only if I can give the cyclist at least 3 feet, and get back on my side of the MMP before any oncoming traffic approaches, and never in the single lane divided areas. IF, and again IF, a cyclist decides to move left as I am safely passing, that is on him. If you read one of the earlier posts in this thread, someone was stuck behind a cyclist for 2 miles. That is unacceptable, there is no way that the opportunity to pass did not arise in that span, yet the cyclist continually blocked the MMP (IF that post was truthful)

ah..but...the cyclist has no clue as to your amazingness. In fact, the smart cyclist if he/she wishes to remain intact, should assume that you are blind in your right eye, have no idea as to the spatial relationship of the right front fender, and your sugar meds are off a tad today.
I lost a friend and neighbor to someone who wasn't as amazing as you, unfortunately. The driver who clipped him was exactly as described above.

[golfing eagles]

ah..but...the cyclist has no clue as to your amazingness. In fact, the smart cyclist if he/she wishes to remain intact, should assume that you are blind in your right eye, have no idea as to the spatial relationship of the right front fender, and your sugar meds are off a tad today.
I lost a friend and neighbor to someone who wasn't as amazing as you, unfortunately. The driver who clipped him was exactly as described above.

Not my problem

[Laker14]

Not my problem

Correct. And it's not the cyclists problem if you have to wait until he/she feels it's safe to move over and let you pass.

[Bill14564]

Correct. And it's not the cyclists problem if you have to wait until he/she feels it's safe to move over and let you pass.

It's not up to the cyclist to feel safe enough to move over and *let* someone pass. The cyclist has the right to one lane, not the entire path (or road).

*IF* the cyclist could see something the cart driver could not then that *might* excuse an illegal move to prevent an accident but nothing that was said so far indicates that was the case. If the cyclist simply decided "you're not passing me today, not happening" and blocked the second lane then he/she was in the wrong and it's lucky for the cyclist that his/her actions didn't cause the situation to escalate into something worse.

We all (cyclist, car driver, cart driver) should be calling out bad behavior not trying to defend it.

[golfing eagles]

Correct. And it's not the cyclists problem if you have to wait until he/she feels it's safe to move over and let you pass.

So your position is that a cyclist ignorant of the driving skills of a cart that wants to pass gets to dictate traffic flow? Seriously??? Sorry, cyclists don’t own the MMPs

[Laker14]

So your position is that a cyclist ignorant of the driving skills of a cart that wants to pass gets to dictate traffic flow? Seriously??? Sorry, cyclists don’t own the MMPs

It is my position that the cyclist is correct if in his estimation, there is not enough room for a cart to pass between him and the left edge of the roadway. This could be because it's where the MMP is divided, and there isn't enough width to safely do it. It could be because in his estimation there isn't enough vision ahead to be sure the passing cart will make it by with sufficient room before the possibility of an unseen oncoming cart could cause a dangerous situation with the passing cart possibly needing to make an abrupt reentry into the right lane at the cyclist's expense.

The alternative is for the cyclist to assume the cart driver isn't stupid, and that is a dangerous assumption to make.
It's not about who "owns" the MMP. It's about whose safety is at stake in that situation, and who has to make the call so nobody gets hurt.

[ThirdOfFive]

It is my position that the cyclist is correct if in his estimation, there is not enough room for a cart to pass between him and the left edge of the roadway. This could be because it's where the MMP is divided, and there isn't enough width to safely do it. It could be because in his estimation there isn't enough vision ahead to be sure the passing cart will make it by with sufficient room before the possibility of an unseen oncoming cart could cause a dangerous situation with the passing cart possibly needing to make an abrupt reentry into the right lane at the cyclist's expense.

The alternative is for the cyclist to assume the cart driver isn't stupid, and that is a dangerous assumption to make.
It's not about who "owns" the MMP. It's about whose safety is at stake in that situation, and who has to make the call so nobody gets hurt.
Bingo.

I'd also add that when we allow pride to dictate our actions, we're on some dangerous ground. None of us are infallible.

[golfing eagles]

It is my position that the cyclist is correct if in his estimation, there is not enough room for a cart to pass between him and the left edge of the roadway. This could be because it's where the MMP is divided, and there isn't enough width to safely do it. It could be because in his estimation there isn't enough vision ahead to be sure the passing cart will make it by with sufficient room before the possibility of an unseen oncoming cart could cause a dangerous situation with the passing cart possibly needing to make an abrupt reentry into the right lane at the cyclist's expense.

The alternative is for the cyclist to assume the cart driver isn't stupid, and that is a dangerous assumption to make.
It's not about who "owns he" the MMP. It's about whose safety is at stake in that situation, and who has to make the call so nobody gets hurt.

Sorry, but I’M driving MY cart. I couldn’t care less about somebody else’s “estimation”. The cyclist is NOT driving FOR me, so he can keep HIS backseat driving estimate to himself. Again, my comments are predicated on being able to SAFELY pass, in MY estimate, NOT YOURS. When you are driving your car and run up to some bozo driving 30 in a 55 zone, do you rely on THEIR judgment as to when it is safe to pass or your own? Your comment suggests that somehow cyclists have far superior judgment skills than the rest of us

[golfing eagles]

[/SIZE][/COLOR][/B]
Bingo.

I'd also add that when we allow pride to dictate our actions, we're on some dangerous ground. None of us are infallible.

Starting with cyclists

[Laker14]

Sorry, but I’M driving MY cart. I couldn’t care less about somebody else’s “estimation”. The cyclist is NOT driving FOR me, so he can keep HIS backseat driving estimate to himself. Again, my comments are predicated on being able to SAFELY pass, in MY estimate, NOT YOURS. When you are driving your car and run up to some bozo driving 30 in a 55 zone, do you rely on THEIR judgment as to when it is safe to pass or your own? Your comment suggests that somehow cyclists have far superior judgment skills than the rest of us

I think we've all read enough of your posts to know you will never admit you are wrong, no matter what.
Carry on.

[D.Bolen]

Of course you do. If the shoe fits. me, not I. "...to pass in the same lane as me." But it's okay for them to sideswipe me, a vulnerable pedestrian wearing no helmet or other PPE? I guess it makes them feel like vroom-vroom a racecar passing a competitor or some other form of superiority? I have no idea why they do it, really, I just have experienced that they do do it. Am I to remain defenseless?

Hey El Diablo Joe, I will not let you remain defenseless. Below are my personal observations (with comments), along with a question for the OP Laker14 as invited (whose post I sincerely appreciate and have learned from BTW):

In my (too many) years of experience, cyclists, upon encountering those on foot (even in an area designated for both bicycles and pedestrians and in the right-edge of the right lane) seem to generally have an initial territorial-like response, viewing the body of that slow-moving pedestrian as an annoying obstacle, and that person as an interloper to their roadway and possible impediment to maintaining their momentum, focus, etc.

See any similarity to the way car drivers react when they see one or more bicycles they cannot pass?

(Cyclists may assume to have a higher moral ground re fossil fuel usage, but for fun I'll share that spandex (like a multitude of daily-use items) is manufactured with fossil fuels/petroleum and not via spigots tapped into rubber tree plants; see: The Environmental Impact of Spandex - One Green Planet (https://www.onegreenplanet.org/environment/the-environmental-impact-of-spandex/) )

So, my question to OP Laker14 as inspired the post by ElDiabloJoe is: What percentage of serious cyclists do you think are irritated when they encounter a pedestrian while riding the MMPs? And also, what percentage are so irritated that they might deliberately pass at a close clip?

I would not really expect you to furnish a guesstimate for the second question.

My guess is at least 90% are irritated, and maybe 25%-30% are even irritated enough to deliberately pass at a close clip, overconfident re their navigational abilities & reaction time and not realizing how severe a physical injury could result to the unwary pedestrian if the latter (a person with ability to make sharp movements and not just a static, annoying blob in the roadway) made the slightest unexpected movement that would result in a collision?

Edit: I'm adding a last paragraph to the OP because in re-reading, I think my post sounded antagonistic to cyclists. I didn't mean it to be that way. Maybe a little envious that I'll never be physically fit & confidant enough to ride with the "gather at 7am at Barnes & Noble" crowd. But if you have a response, I'd value your opinion.

[golfing eagles]

I think we've all read enough of your posts to know you will never admit you are wrong, no matter what.
Carry on.

Except in this case I am 110% correct. I guess I haven’t been clear enough. YOU do not dictate how I drive. YOU do not get to tell me what to do. YOU are not in charge of directing traffic on a MMP. I don’t care that you think you are the self appointed guardian of the roadways If you think you do, you should be prepared to be disappointed

[Happydaz]

I am a bicyclist and I was interested to see how the conversation would go on this topic. As far as multimodal paths go, they really are not suited for a fast bicyclist or a group of bicyclists to use as a major route of transport. Traffic is too heavy and there are many walkers, joggers and golf carts on them. The streets are much safer, especially when riding with a group of bicyclists separated into groups of ten. It is important that all bicycles have front and rear flashing lights as well as rear mirrors. Bicycling is an absolutely enjoyable sport and many of us are in the best shape of our lives. I am a 75 years old male and I weigh 160 pounds. I just love riding around the Villages. I would have to say that 99% of the vehicle drivers are considerate of us on the road. As for the bickering that goes on here, I just have to say “Chill out, take it easy.” Maybe go out for a run, get some good exercise to work out your frustrations. Hanging around your computer all day doesn’t seem to be a good idea. Cheers and happy exercising and whatever else you choose to do to maintain good physical and mental health.

[Laker14]

Hey El Diablo Joe, I will not let you remain defenseless. Below are my personal observations (with comments), along with a question for the OP Laker14 as invited (whose post I sincerely appreciate and have learned from BTW):

In my (too many) years of experience, cyclists, upon encountering those on foot (even in an area designated for both bicycles and pedestrians and in the right-edge of the right lane) seem to generally have an initial territorial-like response, viewing the body of that slow-moving pedestrian as an annoying obstacle, and that person as an interloper to their roadway and possible impediment to maintaining their momentum, focus, etc.

See any similarity to the way car drivers react when they see one or more bicycles they cannot pass?

(Cyclists may assume to have a higher moral ground re fossil fuel usage, but for fun I'll share that spandex (like a multitude of daily-use items) is manufactured with fossil fuels/petroleum and not via spigots tapped into rubber tree plants; see: The Environmental Impact of Spandex - One Green Planet (https://www.onegreenplanet.org/environment/the-environmental-impact-of-spandex/) )

So, my question to OP Laker14 as inspired the post by ElDiabloJoe is: What percentage of serious cyclists do you think are irritated when they encounter a pedestrian while riding the MMPs? And also, what percentage are so irritated that they might deliberately pass at a close clip?

I would not really expect you to furnish a guesstimate for the second question.

My guess is at least 90% are irritated, and maybe 25%-30% are even irritated enough to deliberately pass at a close clip, overconfident re their navigational abilities & reaction time and not realizing how severe a physical injury could result to the unwary pedestrian if the latter (a person with ability to make sharp movements and not just a static, annoying blob in the roadway) made the slightest unexpected movement that would result in a collision?

Edit: I'm adding a last paragraph to the OP because in re-reading, I think my post sounded antagonistic to cyclists. I didn't mean it to be that way. Maybe a little envious that I'll never be physically fit & confidant enough to ride with the "gather at 7am at Barnes & Noble" crowd. But if you have a response, I'd value your opinion.

I'm a little confused here. I get the impression from your post that you have me confused as the OP of this thread. I'm not. Not that it's important.
I gave up cycling a few years ago because I found my fear of motorists had grown to the point that I wasn't finding it enjoyable. I've never ridden a bike in TV, so I can't speak from any first hand experience.
I live on a lake in NY, and I have ridden on what I would call 1 1/2 lane roads, with cars, cars pulling boat trailers, pedestrians, runners, dog walkers, and kids on skateboards. I never got irritated with anyone on foot. I did a lot of walking on those roads myself and I would get irritated with bicyclist zooming by from my 6 O'Clock without so much as a "Behind you",,, or "on the left"...a very dangerous move in my opinion. When riding and approaching pedestrians I would slow down, and give them a "behind you, on the left" warning. I would slow to the point of being able to avoid them if they should move the wrong way.
When a cyclist would warn me I would always thank them as they passed.
I have no idea what percentage of cyclists get annoyed by pedestrians on the MMPs. If they do, they are in the wrong. IMO, just as wrong as the dude in the cart who thinks the biker should move all the way to the right so the cart can pass between oncoming carts and the biker's left knee.

I hope I've answered your question.

[Laker14]

I am a bicyclist and I was interested to see how the conversation would go on this topic. As far as multimodal paths go, they really are not suited for a fast bicyclist or a group of bicyclists to use as a major route of transport. Traffic is too heavy and there are many walkers, joggers and golf carts on them. The streets are much safer, especially when riding with a group of bicyclists separated into groups of ten. It is important that all bicycles have front and rear flashing lights as well as rear mirrors. Bicycling is an absolutely enjoyable sport and many of us are in the best shape of our lives. I am a 75 years old male and I weigh 160 pounds. I just love riding around the Villages. I would have to say that 99% of the vehicle drivers are considerate of us on the road. As for the bickering that goes on here, I just have to say “Chill out, take it easy.” Maybe go out for a run, get some good exercise to work out your frustrations. Hanging around your computer all day doesn’t seem to be a good idea. Cheers and happy exercising and whatever else you choose to do to maintain good physical and mental health.

Well said.

[Toymeister]

I think we've all read enough of your posts to know you will never admit you are wrong, no matter what.
Carry on.

I summed it up 99 posts before yours (post 12). I can share my ignore list with you which targets the posters who are determined to get the last word in, talk to themselves, and spread their own brand of negativity.

It spares me the time of seeing uneducated, unreasonable and simply ignorant posts appearing in a thread. It's a tremendous time saver for someone like myself who does not associate with ignorance in real life.

[D.Bolen]

I'm a little confused here. I get the impression from your post that you have me confused as the OP of this thread.

You're correct Laker14, somewhere along the line I had misidentified you as the OP of this thread.

Thanks for your reply and the background info.

[MX rider]

I'm a little confused here. I get the impression from your post that you have me confused as the OP of this thread. I'm not. Not that it's important.
I gave up cycling a few years ago because I found my fear of motorists had grown to the point that I wasn't finding it enjoyable. I've never ridden a bike in TV, so I can't speak from any first hand experience.
I live on a lake in NY, and I have ridden on what I would call 1 1/2 lane roads, with cars, cars pulling boat trailers, pedestrians, runners, dog walkers, and kids on skateboards. I never got irritated with anyone on foot. I did a lot of walking on those roads myself and I would get irritated with bicyclist zooming by from my 6 O'Clock without so much as a "Behind you",,, or "on the left"...a very dangerous move in my opinion. When riding and approaching pedestrians I would slow down, and give them a "behind you, on the left" warning. I would slow to the point of being able to avoid them if they should move the wrong way.
When a cyclist would warn me I would always thank them as they passed.
I have no idea what percentage of cyclists get annoyed by pedestrians on the MMPs. If they do, they are in the wrong. IMO, just as wrong as the dude in the cart who thinks the biker should move all the way to the right so the cart can pass between oncoming carts and the biker's left knee.

I hope I've answered your question.

Good post.
My wife and I mountain bike offroad. I don't trust drivers enough to ride the road. But we do like to ride around on the MM paths. We ride at a casual pace , and 99% of the time it's all good. We also run on the MM. But there's always that 1% that are a**holes, which includes drivers, runners and cyclists.

[JMintzer]

I am a bicyclist and I was interested to see how the conversation would go on this topic. As far as multimodal paths go, they really are not suited for a fast bicyclist or a group of bicyclists to use as a major route of transport. Traffic is too heavy and there are many walkers, joggers and golf carts on them. The streets are much safer, especially when riding with a group of bicyclists separated into groups of ten. It is important that all bicycles have front and rear flashing lights as well as rear mirrors. Bicycling is an absolutely enjoyable sport and many of us are in the best shape of our lives. I am a 75 years old male and I weigh 160 pounds. I just love riding around the Villages. I would have to say that 99% of the vehicle drivers are considerate of us on the road. As for the bickering that goes on here, I just have to say “Chill out, take it easy.” Maybe go out for a run, get some good exercise to work out your frustrations. Hanging around your computer all day doesn’t seem to be a good idea. Cheers and happy exercising and whatever else you choose to do to maintain good physical and mental health.

Get out of here with your logic, reason and politeness...

People are fighting here! :icon_wink:

Oh, and to your post? :bigbow::bigbow::bigbow:

[Marathon Man]

Just a note-often, an "on your left" statement sometimes startles the walkers and they turn into the path of the cyclist. Sp please do not necessarily judge the cyclist negatively. They do not want to run into walkers.

Correct. I stopped calling out warnings for this very reason.

[kkimball]

There has been a lot of great conversation in this thread. I've learned a few things myself, including that there is an actual Florida statute requiring calling out when passing.

I appreciate all the work others have done to put together good questions and those who have taken the time to post great follow-ups.

Here are the answers to the additional questions asked:

Q: What percentage of serious cyclists do you think are irritated when they encounter a pedestrian while riding the MMPs? And also, what percentage are so irritated that they might deliberately pass at a close clip?
A: I think few are irritated by pedestrians, and I hope that none would intentionally endanger them. However, cyclists don't like to slow down once they gain momentum. That can lead to them passing pedestrians at potentially unsafe speeds, just as motorists often pass cyclists.

Q: Why do cyclists get mad when at fault in a traffic situation?
A: My best guess is because they don't realize that they are wrong. Most of us are from away, and there is a learning curve to traffic rules and patterns in The villages. Hopefully, the cyclist takes the time to reflect, realize their mistake, and pass that knowledge on to others. The two local cycling groups do their best to educate riders, but there is much to learn.

Q: Why does the cyclist decide when it's safe for me to pass?
A: They don't. As the passing vehicle, you determine when it's safe to pass.

Please let me know if I missed your question.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I'll say that I had a particularly positive experience today, when I was driving my golf cart and there was a guy on a bicycle ahead of me on an MMP.

The path had some curves to it, leading to a stop sign near the entryway of one of the buildings near the Morse circle on Camino Real.

This was pretty obviously a "cyclist" rather than a "bicyclist" (who knew these people would get all elitist about the term - only here in the Villages, hah!).

He clearly knew what he was doing so I just stayed behind him, keeping a few carts' distance so as not to tailgate (I hate when people do that to me, so I make it my business not to do that to others). He sped up near this curve, slowed down near that curve, and that's when I was able to see there was some empty pavement up ahead with no one coming our way. So that's when I passed him. Gave him an upnod, he returned the upnod, and we went our merry ways, with me in front going 20mph and him behind going around 15mph (it was a pretty healthy pace).

It was basically - the perfect experience of golf cart driver wanting to pass a bicycle rider, where neither were being jerks about it to each other. Mutual respect of our chosen vehicles, mutual respect of civil interaction between humans.

[Laker14]

I'll say that I had a particularly positive experience today, when I was driving my golf cart and there was a guy on a bicycle ahead of me on an MMP.

The path had some curves to it, leading to a stop sign near the entryway of one of the buildings near the Morse circle on Camino Real.

This was pretty obviously a "cyclist" rather than a "bicyclist" (who knew these people would get all elitist about the term - only here in the Villages, hah!).

He clearly knew what he was doing so I just stayed behind him, keeping a few carts' distance so as not to tailgate (I hate when people do that to me, so I make it my business not to do that to others). He sped up near this curve, slowed down near that curve, and that's when I was able to see there was some empty pavement up ahead with no one coming our way. So that's when I passed him. Gave him an upnod, he returned the upnod, and we went our merry ways, with me in front going 20mph and him behind going around 15mph (it was a pretty healthy pace).

It was basically - the perfect experience of golf cart driver wanting to pass a bicycle rider, where neither were being jerks about it to each other. Mutual respect of our chosen vehicles, mutual respect of civil interaction between humans.

Isn't it amazing how nicely things work when we apply concepts like patience and mutual respect?

[Bruce3055]

I summed it up 99 posts before yours (post 12). I can share my ignore list with you which targets the posters who are determined to get the last word in, talk to themselves, and spread their own brand of negativity.

It spares me the time of seeing uneducated, unreasonable and simply ignorant posts appearing in a thread. It's a tremendous time saver for someone like myself who does not associate with ignorance in real life.

Yes, please share swith me your list via private message and advise how I may set u an ignore list for myself.

Thanks

[Bruce3055]

I'm sure no one EVER has....because they don't!!!!

I think it's more important to consider if a bicycle (or cart) is creating an unsafe condition by rolling through a stop sign. If they are safe, rolling through the stop sign is probably appreciated by most. Can you imagine the back ups that would occur if everyone stopped even though they could safely roll through the gate crossing.

Cart drivers would back up as they waited for clear openings

Bike riders could create enormous back ups as they got off their bikes to walk thru intersections as not all are fast enough to safely cross from a completes stop otherwise.

[clekr]

Took my bike out this morning and headed toward Brownwood. Stopped for a rest on the shaded bench in front of the sales office. This put me within 80 feet of two stop signs. During the 20 minutes I stayed I observed one bike and 35-50 cars/carts proceed through. The bike did not even slow for the sign. Of the cars/carts only two stopped. One seemed to be because of a car in the left lane; he was in the right lane. But then, he made a left turn from the right lane. Would seem bikes are no worse than others on this.

[villager7591]

Here is the Florida statute to which you refer. It calls out 'sidewalks' which an MMP or the walking/biking-only trails may or may not be:
A person propelling a bicycle upon and along a sidewalk, or across a roadway upon and along a crosswalk, shall yield the right-of-way to any pedestrian and shall give an audible signal before overtaking and passing such pedestrian.

[golfing eagles]

There has been a lot of great conversation in this thread. I've learned a few things myself, including that there is an actual Florida statute requiring calling out when passing.

I appreciate all the work others have done to put together good questions and those who have taken the time to post great follow-ups.

Here are the answers to the additional questions asked:

Q: What percentage of serious cyclists do you think are irritated when they encounter a pedestrian while riding the MMPs? And also, what percentage are so irritated that they might deliberately pass at a close clip?
A: I think few are irritated by pedestrians, and I hope that none would intentionally endanger them. However, cyclists don't like to slow down once they gain momentum. That can lead to them passing pedestrians at potentially unsafe speeds, just as motorists often pass cyclists.

Q: Why do cyclists get mad when at fault in a traffic situation?
A: My best guess is because they don't realize that they are wrong. Most of us are from away, and there is a learning curve to traffic rules and patterns in The villages. Hopefully, the cyclist takes the time to reflect, realize their mistake, and pass that knowledge on to others. The two local cycling groups do their best to educate riders, but there is much to learn.

Q: Why does the cyclist decide when it's safe for me to pass?
A: They don't. As the passing vehicle, you determine when it's safe to pass.

Please let me know if I missed your question.

Thank you, thank you, thank you :bigbow: :bigbow: :bigbow:

That last Q/A was my ONLY point in this thread, and as the OP and an avid cyclist, I'm glad you agree

Everyone should be aware of the safety of others, on the roads and MMPs, and that goes for cars, carts, cycles, and pedestrians. However, no one gets to dictate actions to another. I'll drive my vehicles, and others can drive theirs, but I retain the sole right to determine when it's safe to pass

And for that opinion, which btw is 100% correct, I was called ignorant and uneducated. Sorry, as the OP I guess you're in that same club in that person's opinion.

[Laker14]

There has been a lot of great conversation in this thread. I've learned a few things myself, including that there is an actual Florida statute requiring calling out when passing.

I appreciate all the work others have done to put together good questions and those who have taken the time to post great follow-ups.

Here are the answers to the additional questions asked:

Q: What percentage of serious cyclists do you think are irritated when they encounter a pedestrian while riding the MMPs? And also, what percentage are so irritated that they might deliberately pass at a close clip?
A: I think few are irritated by pedestrians, and I hope that none would intentionally endanger them. However, cyclists don't like to slow down once they gain momentum. That can lead to them passing pedestrians at potentially unsafe speeds, just as motorists often pass cyclists.

Q: Why do cyclists get mad when at fault in a traffic situation?
A: My best guess is because they don't realize that they are wrong. Most of us are from away, and there is a learning curve to traffic rules and patterns in The villages. Hopefully, the cyclist takes the time to reflect, realize their mistake, and pass that knowledge on to others. The two local cycling groups do their best to educate riders, but there is much to learn.

Q: Why does the cyclist decide when it's safe for me to pass?
A: They don't. As the passing vehicle, you determine when it's safe to pass.

Please let me know if I missed your question.

Thank you, thank you, thank you :bigbow: :bigbow: :bigbow:

That last Q/A was my ONLY point in this thread, and as the OP and an avid cyclist, I'm glad you agree

Everyone should be aware of the safety of others, on the roads and MMPs, and that goes for cars, carts, cycles, and pedestrians. However, no one gets to dictate actions to another. I'll drive my vehicles, and others can drive theirs, but I retain the sole right to determine when it's safe to pass

And for that opinion, which btw is 100% correct, I was called ignorant and uneducated. Sorry, as the OP I guess you're in that same club in that person's opinion.


When I rode, there were definitely times I did not want the car driver behind me to be tempted to try to squeeze between me and the double yellow line. In those cases I would take the middle of the lane to communicate to the car that it's not safe yet.

My concern was typically that the driver would try to squeeze, unable to see what was coming around a blind curve. If an oncoming car came around that curve over the yellow line, or close to it, there was not going to be a safe amount of room for two cars and me. And in that situation, there would likely be one loser, and that would be me.

Basically, there is never a time when it's safe for a car to attempt to squeeze between the lane marker and the bike, and that is why the law requires a 3 foot margin between the car and the bike. But not every car will respect that.

If the passing car can see there is room enough to get by, going over the lane marker, then by all means do so. It won't matter where the bike is in that situation.

Does that make sense?

[golfing eagles]

When I rode, there were definitely times I did not want the car driver behind me to be tempted to try to squeeze between me and the double yellow line. In those cases I would take the middle of the lane to communicate to the car that it's not safe yet.

My concern was typically that the driver would try to squeeze, unable to see what was coming around a blind curve. If an oncoming car came around that curve over the yellow line, or close to it, there was not going to be a safe amount of room for two cars and me. And in that situation, there would likely be one loser, and that would be me.

Basically, there is never a time when it's safe for a car to attempt to squeeze between the lane marker and the bike, and that is why the law requires a 3 foot margin between the car and the bike. But not every car will respect that.

If the passing car can see there is room enough to get by, going over the lane marker, then by all means do so. It won't matter where the bike is in that situation.

Does that make sense?

It makes perfect sense as you've described it and I agree for the most part.
Apparently you are talking about a roadway, but I still disagree (and so does the OP) that it is up to you to decide for another driver when it is safe. It is his responsibility to operate his vehicle safely, not yours. I understand that a cyclist is more vulnerable and therefore might want to control the situation, but he is not a dictator and does not have any authority to dictate to others. As much as a person might want to, none of us can control the actions of another. Again, I'll use the analogy---when you are driving a car and come upon a "driver" going 30 in a 55 zone, do you eagerly await his permission to decide for you when it is safe to pass, or do you decide for yourself? And what would you think of that slow driver moving into a position to block you from passing when you had the chance? (I realize cycles are slightly different given the width of the road and the 3 foot rule). But what if that slow driver moved 6 feet into the oncoming lane to block you. (Of course, most of those slugs simply speed up from 30 to 70 when you go to pass) Remember, most of my posts were directed at responding to a post that claimed slow cyclists were blocking him from passing on a MMP for 2 miles, which (if true) would be ridiculous.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I think it's more important to consider if a bicycle (or cart) is creating an unsafe condition by rolling through a stop sign. If they are safe, rolling through the stop sign is probably appreciated by most. Can you imagine the back ups that would occur if everyone stopped even though they could safely roll through the gate crossing.

Cart drivers would back up as they waited for clear openings

Bike riders could create enormous back ups as they got off their bikes to walk thru intersections as not all are fast enough to safely cross from a completes stop otherwise.

Honestly, the only time I "roll through" a stop sign on my bike is if I'm riding uphill. The only alternative is to stop, get off my bike, and block traffic while I walk it across the street. Where I live, there's a stop sign that's at the bottom of an incline, and is a right turn onto another incline. So I can get momentum on the way to the stop sign and make it up that other road without having to walk it the entire way to the stop sign after that. There's plenty of clearance for me to check to my left and make sure no one is coming.

It's technically illegal, and if a police officer were to pull me over on my bicycle to give me a ticket I'd accept it (and probably fight it, but I'd still not give the officer any bunk - he's just doing his job).

I am 100% in favor of the roll-through bicycle laws they have in other states. But here in Florida, we don't have those laws. So if you're going to do that, you need to accept that you're breaking the law - even though what you're doing is safer for EVERYONE involved.