Warren Buffett and Bitcoin

[tophcfa]

Warren Buffett, indisputably one of the most respected investors ever, stated he wouldn’t buy all the Bitcoin in the world for $25. Buffett believes assets have to have value, deliver something to somebody. He said he would gladly write a check for $25 billion for either 1% of all the farmland our apartment buildings in the country, those assets produce food and rent, but Bitcoin produces nothing. He further stated that the only thing one can do with Bitcoin is hope someone will be willing to buy it back and that it undermines the Federal Reserve system. In his strongest statement, Buffett said that Bitcoin is “probably rat poison squared”.

[DAVES]

Warren Buffett, indisputably one of the most respected investors ever, stated he wouldn’t buy all the Bitcoin in the world for $25. Buffett believes assets have to have value, deliver something to somebody. He said he would gladly write a check for $25 billion for either 1% of all the farmland our apartment buildings in the country, those assets produce food and rent, but Bitcoin produces nothing. He further stated that the only thing one can do with Bitcoin is hope someone will be willing to buy it back and that it undermines the Federal Reserve system. In his strongest statement, Buffett said that Bitcoin is “probably rat poison squared”.

People use the term Buffet like. I find that whole thought amusing. Buffet says I lost 44 million on that stock. I am Buffet like, except for reality. If, I lost 44 million dollars there would be a lot of people wondering how they were so dumb to LEND me that much money.

Bitcoin reminds me of tulip bulb trading like 600 years ago. There were wild swings.
Even the church was involved. Some people made a lot of money. When, it finally burned out the last holder discovered they held a pile of bulbs they paid way too much for.

Bitcoin. If you read about it, all these people buying and selling, "tulip bulbs." The dollar is based on the full faith and credit of the United States. It is no longer redeemable in gold or silver. That backing may be of depreciating value and respect. However, Bitcoin is backed by NOTHING. The creator does not actually exist. There is only rumor and suspicions. Imagine buying anything with Bitcoin. It's,"value," is compared to the dollar. The dollar itself fluctuates. OOPS you wanted to pay some number of bitcoins for xxxx it just dropped 5%.

Talk about HUH. People are buying real-estate cars, boats in the imaginary world called the metaverse. I understand you can choose your neighbors when you buy your non-existent lot.

It is or was a way to launder money.

Amusing to watch. Far as Tulips, far as I know the Villages is too hot for growing Tulips.

[MartinSE]

I am not smart enough to have any thoughts on Bitcoins themselves. BUT. From what I understand the value in Bitcoins is two things. One they are 100% untraceable. And two, they disempower banks. A lot of people see banking as "evil". I am not taking a side, just repeating what I have read. It will be interesting to see how it goes. My biggest problem with Bitcoins is that the farms use hellish amounts of energy, most of which is in China and produce using coal. Not good.

Bitcoin mining consumes around 91 terawatt-hours of electricity annually. The Digiconomist's Bitcoin Energy Consumption Index estimated that one Bitcoin transaction takes 1,544 kWh to complete, or the equivalent of approximately 53 days of power for the average US household.

To put that into money terms, the average cost per kWh in the US is 13 cents. That means one Bitcoin transaction would generate more than $200 in energy bills.

[Stu from NYC]

Agree with Mr Buffett.

[Topspinmo]

I usually don’t agree with tax cheats, but in this case I do.:duck:

[Boomer]

Warren Buffett, indisputably one of the most respected investors ever, stated he wouldn’t buy all the Bitcoin in the world for $25. Buffett believes assets have to have value, deliver something to somebody. He said he would gladly write a check for $25 billion for either 1% of all the farmland our apartment buildings in the country, those assets produce food and rent, but Bitcoin produces nothing. He further stated that the only thing one can do with Bitcoin is hope someone will be willing to buy it back and that it undermines the Federal Reserve system. In his strongest statement, Buffett said that Bitcoin is “probably rat poison squared”.


Thanks, tophcfa,

I knew my instincts were right this time. I would not touch Bitcoin either.

They say experience is the best teacher — next to Warren Buffett, of course.

I got caught in the dot-com bubble of the 1990s. When that bubble popped, I clearly remember thinking. . .well, this must be exactly what the term ‘sucker punch’ means.

I also clearly remember my thinking that led up to getting caught in that big pop………

I thought I was seeing the future…….

I would come home from work, check my funds, and revel in my brilliance……..

There was a brief and shining moment when I had a fund doing more than 100% — rocket fast.

My thinking was so arrogant, so nauseatingly arrogant.

At least, I had not bet the farm, only the butter and egg money. But, even so, that experience reined me in and I have been boring ever since.

Boomer

[dewilson58]

I've been playing with Bitcoin as part of my speculation dollars.

I've gotten my original investment back five times over.
I've taken three of the fives times off the table.
I have no basis in my bitcoin pot now.

Sometimes it's bad to pass up opportunities...........sometimes.

:MOJE_whot:

[Malsua]

One they are 100% untraceable. And two, they disempower banks. A lot of people see banking as "evil". I am not taking a side, just repeating what I have read. It will be interesting to see how it goes. My biggest problem with Bitcoins is that the farms use hellish amounts of energy, most of which is in China and produce using coal. Not good.



There are a couple things you've got wrong here.

1. Bitcoin transactions are 100% TRACEABLE. All the way back to the first coin. This is what is called an open ledger. If I know your wallet addresses, I can find every movement of every coin, into and out of your wallet for all time. You cannot hide it. It's very easy to see as well as there are large, free websites that will give you all that information.

Transactions can be obfuscated with tools, but what those tools do take large quantities of coins and dump them into a blender, mix them with other stuff and push out small amount. Again, if I know your wallet address, I can watch it all happen, pretty much in real time.

As far as energy usage goes, if it cost $100 to use a bitcoin, the fees would prohibit usage. There are around 500 "transactions" i.e. You bought a cup of coffee, in a block confirmation. Each block may cost around $100 so your cup of coffee cost a 20 cent fee.

There are other crypto currencies that confirm blocks for much less than bitcoin. On the Solana chain for example, block confirmations are in the hundredths of a penny.

Finally, how much do you think traditional finance costs? When you do the actual comparision, bitcoin transactions are a bargain. How much energy does every bank use? It dwarfs bitcoin, around 800 to 1. No building to run, no lights, no AC, no heat, no people driving to it, on and on and on.

If you don't want to use bitcoin or any cryptocurrency, don't.

The Federal Reserve in the process of building their own Fedcoin. I don't know what it will be called, but it's a CBDC(Central Bank Digital currency). Children born today will not understand why you ever had to go to a building somewhere in town to get money. It will all be some form of a Blockchain(which is what Fedcoin will be) and it will all bear some resemblance to bitcoin(in function essentially) except that Fedcoin will be centralized instead of distributed.

[tophcfa]

I've been playing with Bitcoin as part of my speculation dollars.

I've gotten my original investment back five times over.
I've taken three of the fives times off the table.
I have no basis in my bitcoin pot now.

Sometimes it's bad to pass up opportunities...........sometimes.

:MOJE_whot:

It’s a game of musical chairs. If you get in early while the music is still playing it’s all fun, but it’s wise to stop playing early. When the music stops there very well might not be a single chair around.

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

I am not smart enough to have any thoughts on Bitcoins themselves. BUT. From what I understand the value in Bitcoins is two things. One they are 100% untraceable. And two, they disempower banks. A lot of people see banking as "evil". I am not taking a side, just repeating what I have read. It will be interesting to see how it goes. My biggest problem with Bitcoins is that the farms use hellish amounts of energy, most of which is in China and produce using coal. Not good.

Bitcoin mining consumes around 91 terawatt-hours of electricity annually. The Digiconomist's Bitcoin Energy Consumption Index estimated that one Bitcoin transaction takes 1,544 kWh to complete, or the equivalent of approximately 53 days of power for the average US household.

To put that into money terms, the average cost per kWh in the US is 13 cents. That means one Bitcoin transaction would generate more than $200 in energy bills. china has now banned crypto and the USA has quietly slipped into the number 1 mining spot

[dewilson58]

It’s a game of musical chairs. If you get in early while the music is still playing it’s all fun, but it’s wise to stop playing early. When the music stops there very well might not be a single chair around.

Absolutely.
I told my kids they were idiots to invest.
(of course I have not told them my story)
:)

[Stu from NYC]

I usually don’t agree with tax cheats, but in this case I do.:duck:

Why would you think he is a tax cheat?

[tvbound]

It’s a game of musical chairs. If you get in early while the music is still playing it’s all fun, but it’s wise to stop playing early. When the music stops there very well might not be a single chair around.

I totally agree. While there will always be those who anonymously tout (falsely brag?) about how much they've made on crypto and were able to get out already with huge returns, IMHO the market is being driven by those who are ruled by FOMO (fear of missing out). As we've seen time and time again (the Tulip fiasco is a good example) by the time that fomo feeling takes over, it's usually too late. And those few who actually made amazing returns by actually getting out, will most likely try again for that adrenaline rush and good luck to them looking for a seat - when it crashes. I'll continue to look to the Oracle of Omaha and his tried and true formula for building wealth - as it's worked pretty well so far.

[DAVES]

I usually don’t agree with tax cheats, but in this case I do.:duck:

Tax cheats? The reality is no one wants to pay taxes. Everyone wants stuff, services.
A tax deduction? It is fair if I get it. If, someone else gets a deduction that is cheating.

Reality, there is a line on the tax form where you can pay more tax, if you choose to.

It is interesting. Our constitution is four pages. Our tax code is one hundred and eighty THOUSAND pages.

We know if you tax something you will have less of it. If, you subsidize something you will have more of it. We tax WORK. We tax SAVING. We subsidize POVERTY. We subsidize DEBT.

[DAVES]

Thanks, tophcfa,

I knew my instincts were right this time. I would not touch Bitcoin either.

They say experience is the best teacher — next to Warren Buffett, of course.

I got caught in the dot-com bubble of the 1990s. When that bubble popped, I clearly remember thinking. . .well, this must be exactly what the term ‘sucker punch’ means.

I also clearly remember my thinking that led up to getting caught in that big pop………

I thought I was seeing the future…….

I would come home from work, check my funds, and revel in my brilliance……..

There was a brief and shining moment when I had a fund doing more than 100% — rocket fast.

My thinking was so arrogant, so nauseatingly arrogant.

At least, I had not bet the farm, only the butter and egg money. But, even so, that experience reined me in and I have been boring ever since.

Boomer

Wisdom from BAZOOKA bubble gum comic. The big roll. The one that cost a nickel. The one that gave you six lumps for the price of five of the penny size.
Buy low and sell high.

Buffet, listed as THE GREAT stock picker. Buffet does not make money on every trade.

Life? Part of living is making mistakes.

[Stu from NYC]

Wisdom from BAZOOKA bubble gum comic. The big roll. The one that cost a nickel. The one that gave you six lumps for the price of five of the penny size.
Buy low and sell high.

Buffet, listed as THE GREAT stock picker. Buffet does not make money on every trade.

Life? Part of living is making mistakes.

But if you look at his body of work he has done an awesome job making money for his investors

[Topspinmo]

Why would you think he is a tax cheat?

O please everyone heard his infamous statement. Why do you think he has army tax code lawyers, why do think lobbyist lobby career ————-. (Not allowed to say that word).

[dewilson58]

But if you look at his body of work he has done an awesome job making money for his investors

Depends on what period of time you look at.

Last five years: Berkshire 13.3%, S&P 14.9%

Last ten years: Berkshire 15.4%, S&P 14.5%

(Barron's March 4, 2022)

[Boston-Sean]

What a great thread.

Lots of people who don't understand Bitcoin whining about those of us who do and who've made tons of money.

If\when I buy my Villages house it will be 100% with bitcoin profits.

Great Buffet reference tho. I didn't know he was still alive.

Fidelity is kind of knowledgeable about investments and they seem to think Bitcoin is OK:

Fidelity will soon offer bitcoin as an option in 401(k)s - CNN (https://edition.cnn.com/2022/04/26/success/fidelity-bitcoin-401k/index.html)

[Boomer]

What a great thread.

Lots of people who don't understand Bitcoin whining about those of us who do and who've made tons of money.

If\when I buy my Villages house it will be 100% with bitcoin profits.

Great Buffet reference tho. I didn't know he was still alive.

Fidelity is kind of knowledgeable about investments and they seem to think Bitcoin is OK:

Fidelity will soon offer bitcoin as an option in 401(k)s - CNN (https://edition.cnn.com/2022/04/26/success/fidelity-bitcoin-401k/index.html)


Hey,

Nobody is whining.

No need to be condescending. (Do I see a little ageism between the lines? Well, not exactly between the lines, is it?)

No need to be so upset because some people don’t care about Bitcoin and/or those people are not saying things you want to hear. Can’t find your trophy here?

Btw, even though I am oh so decrepit, I already knew about Fidelity playing to the Bitcoin crowd. That’s called marketing. Fidelity knows some people want to buy Bitcoin, so Fidelity is providing the tools for Bitcoin buyers to use — through Fidelity. That’s all. Fidelity does not actually know whether Bitcoin is going to be “OK” or not. (said Boomer, explaining patiently)

And, just for the record, guess what…….

Ya know that post I wrote earlier in this thread — about my dot-com bubble dancing days. Well, my dot-com funds were all Fidelity funds. But, at least I knew that Fidelity was not telling me dot-com was “OK.” Fidelity was just marketing to the times.

About your future TV house built of Bitcoin? Maybe so. Who knows? But I would lay some real money down on a bet that there are a whole lot of houses in TV built out of dividends, years and years and years of dividends.

Having fun at the Bitcoin Casino is fine, but maybe branch out a little. I was sure glad I had backup when I was putting my 403(b) in dot-com, and oh my, my, at the time, I thought I knew so much, so very much……….

Boomer (Advice 5 Cents)

[DylanTodd]

Warren Buffett, indisputably one of the most respected investors ever, stated he wouldn’t buy all the Bitcoin in the world for $25. Buffett believes assets have to have value, deliver something to somebody. He said he would gladly write a check for $25 billion for either 1% of all the farmland our apartment buildings in the country, those assets produce food and rent, but Bitcoin produces nothing. He further stated that the only thing one can do with Bitcoin is hope someone will be willing to buy it back and that it undermines the Federal Reserve system. In his strongest statement, Buffett said that Bitcoin is “probably rat poison squared”.

To the OP, what was your motivation in creating this thread? I sense you are frustrated and are lashing out at crypto currency. I can sympathize, your hard earned dollars are diminishing at an advertised rate of 8 to 10% and the true purchasing power lost is likely much higher.

Sounds like you would benefit from coming to a Villages crypto currency club meeting. We actually have one tomorrow morning at the Water Lily rec center from 9am to 11am in person and we also have weekly virtual meetings Saturday mornings. Members of the crypto club can help teach you how to gain that to 8 to 10% back in interest bearing defi accounts.

If anyone in this thread would like more information and would like to have a constructive conversation about bitcoin and other crypto currencies reach out to me at dylanwaynetodd@gmail.com

Cheers,

Dylan

[Boomer]

I am loving this thread.

But I gotta stop doing improv and go watch Ozark now.

Seeya,
Boomer

[Stu from NYC]

Depends on what period of time you look at.

Last five years: Berkshire 13.3%, S&P 14.9%

Last ten years: Berkshire 15.4%, S&P 14.5%

(Barron's March 4, 2022)

How many of us would not be thrilled with that kind of ROI over past 15 years

[Boston-Sean]

Hey,

Nobody is whining.

No need to be condescending. (Do I see a little ageism between the lines? Well, not exactly between the lines, is it?)

No need to be so upset because some people don’t care about Bitcoin and/or those people are not saying things you want to hear. Can’t find your trophy here?

Btw, even though I am oh so decrepit, I already knew about Fidelity playing to the Bitcoin crowd. That’s called marketing. Fidelity knows some people want to buy Bitcoin, so Fidelity is providing the tools for Bitcoin buyers to use — through Fidelity. That’s all. Fidelity does not actually know whether Bitcoin is going to be “OK” or not. (said Boomer, explaining patiently)

And, just for the record, guess what…….

Ya know that post I wrote earlier in this thread — about my dot-com bubble dancing days. Well, my dot-com funds were all Fidelity funds. But, at least I knew that Fidelity was not telling me dot-com was “OK.” Fidelity was just marketing to the times.

About your future TV house built of Bitcoin? Maybe so. Who knows? But I would lay some real money down on a bet that there are a whole lot of houses in TV built out of dividends, years and years and years of dividends.

Having fun at the Bitcoin Casino is fine, but maybe branch out a little. I was sure glad I had backup when I was putting my 403(b) in dot-com, and oh my, my, at the time, I thought I knew so much, so very much……….

Boomer (Advice 5 Cents)

You realize that I didn't start this thread, right?

You Luddites are the ones beating your chests about how bad Bitcoin is. I'm just watching the show.

Wall st. is all in on Bitcoin. You can retire the Tulip references.

Pro Tip: Don't buy it if you don't like it. Bonus Tip: Don't get butthurt watching other people make money.

That dotcom story was great though. Up 100%???? Wow. That's less than my energy fund the last 2 years.

[Stu from NYC]

O please everyone heard his infamous statement. Why do you think he has army tax code lawyers, why do think lobbyist lobby career ————-. (Not allowed to say that word).

He has not been indicted for tax fraud has he? Whose fault is it that congress can be bought to enable people to pay less taxes. Us foolish voters keep returning the same congressman to office

[dewilson58]

How many of us would not be thrilled with that kind of ROI over past 15 years

I'm talking 5 and 10, I will have to sniff out 15.

[Boomer]

You realize that I didn't start this thread, right?

You Luddites are the ones beating your chests about how bad Bitcoin is. I'm just watching the show.

Wall st. is all in on Bitcoin. You can retire the Tulip references.

Pro Tip: Don't buy it if you don't like it. Bonus Tip: Don't get butthurt watching other people make money.

That dotcom story was great though. Up 100%???? Wow. That's less than my energy fund the last 2 years.



Darn it, kid. You made me log back on.

That 100%-plus was fast, real fast. I was so happy with my new-found talent. I bragged — but only to Mr. Boomer. There is an old saying about people who go around bragging about money or whatever else — something about the ratio of hat to cattle.

Congrats on the energy thing though. I like energy. (And so did some big deal guy on WealthTrack last week.) I just don’t have any interest in Bitcoin. Why take that so personally and start name-calling?

“Just watching the show,” you say. We are the show. I have let this turn into some kind of generation v. generation thing. It needs to stop. I’m the grownup, so I’ll stop it.

And scene.

Boomer

PS: For anybody watching Ozark: I am on the second new episode. I am betting Ruth kills Wendy at the end of the season. (This is the last season.) But that bet might be like my dot-com bet. We’ll see.

[Luggage]

Bitcoin does provide certain value as far as it being a private currency and it has an ability be used on the internet for micro transactions. This is something Warren Buffett doesn't understand. Also everything can we use for money if other people decide as value. Silver Pieces Of Eight which themselves can only be melted down for jewelry used to be used as well as large Stones cut into Wheels. We also use little pieces of plastic all credit cards which themselves are backed by little green pieces of paper are you put in your bank or by so cold faith of credit at your bank decides you are worth so in reality it is all game of faith

[Luggage]

M g m was up 300% after the nosedive last year as well as many stocks

[La lamy]

Thanks, tophcfa,

I knew my instincts were right this time. I would not touch Bitcoin either.

They say experience is the best teacher — next to Warren Buffett, of course.

I got caught in the dot-com bubble of the 1990s. When that bubble popped, I clearly remember thinking. . .well, this must be exactly what the term ‘sucker punch’ means.

I also clearly remember my thinking that led up to getting caught in that big pop………

I thought I was seeing the future…….

I would come home from work, check my funds, and revel in my brilliance……..

There was a brief and shining moment when I had a fund doing more than 100% — rocket fast.

My thinking was so arrogant, so nauseatingly arrogant.

At least, I had not bet the farm, only the butter and egg money. But, even so, that experience reined me in and I have been boring ever since.

Boomer

I had a 'friend' who invested a lot of my money in dot-com in the 90s and I too lost a lot of "butter and egg" money. Since then I educated myself about investing and I've chosen "boring" long term dividend yielding stocks that I believe in. NO BITCOINS. Boring is so much better!

[ithos]

Bitcoin has created fortunes for many. Like all pyramid schemes those who know how to trade it or get in early often make a profit. But there have been many losers as well but their stories are rarely told.

Keep in mind that even though it has some practical applications, it was created out of thin air so there is nothing exclusive to Bitcoin as it can be replicated many times over as it has been. Bitcoin is now only about 50% of the total crypto market cap when at one time it was 99%. Yes it was the first mover and widely adopted but that is no guarantee that it will not be replaced by a better engineered crypto coin in the future. Also the use of so called "stable coins" in trading such as tether which have extremely low audit standards makes it even more suspect.

I do not think the government should attempt to regulate private sector economic activity but the the insane decision to infect the futures and derivative markets with this illusionary industry that has no physical value increases the likelihood of making its collapse to be a systemic risk to our economy.

[Villages Kahuna]

I loved Buffett’s simple, clear cut answers to questions which others make more complicated. Charlie Munger was typically even more direct. I agree with both—but I’ve never visited Las Vegas to gamble, which may explain my opinion.

[Worldseries27]

it’s a game of musical chairs. If you get in early while the music is still playing it’s all fun, but it’s wise to stop playing early. When the music stops there very well might not be a single chair around.
doesn't smell like teen spirit
more like ponzi

[merrymini]

Bitcoins are worth what investors think they are worth. Some people made money, some people lost their shirts, Bonafide, GAW. Invest if you can tolerate losing it all. Not my cup of tea. There are always people who tell you how rich they have become being rentals property owners, selling real estate themselves, selling their house in two hours, etc. Sometimes true, lots of BS. You only see the worm in the apple when you get up close.

[Stu from NYC]

Bitcoins are worth what investors think they are worth. Some people made money, some people lost their shirts, Bonafide, GAW. Invest if you can tolerate losing it all. Not my cup of tea. There are always people who tell you how rich they have become being rentals property owners, selling real estate themselves, selling their house in two hours, etc. Sometimes true, lots of BS. You only see the worm in the apple when you get up close.

For some reason most people will only tell you about their winners never the losers

[Petersweeney]

I’d rather buy something I can put in my driveway or garage…..

[Nell57]

There are a couple things you've got wrong here.

1. Bitcoin transactions are 100% TRACEABLE. All the way back to the first coin. This is what is called an open ledger. If I know your wallet addresses, I can find every movement of every coin, into and out of your wallet for all time. You cannot hide it. It's very easy to see as well as there are large, free websites that will give you all that information.

Transactions can be obfuscated with tools, but what those tools do take large quantities of coins and dump them into a blender, mix them with other stuff and push out small amount. Again, if I know your wallet address, I can watch it all happen, pretty much in real time.

As far as energy usage goes, if it cost $100 to use a bitcoin, the fees would prohibit usage. There are around 500 "transactions" i.e. You bought a cup of coffee, in a block confirmation. Each block may cost around $100 so your cup of coffee cost a 20 cent fee.

There are other crypto currencies that confirm blocks for much less than bitcoin. On the Solana chain for example, block confirmations are in the hundredths of a penny.

Finally, how much do you think traditional finance costs? When you do the actual comparision, bitcoin transactions are a bargain. How much energy does every bank use? It dwarfs bitcoin, around 800 to 1. No building to run, no lights, no AC, no heat, no people driving to it, on and on and on.

If you don't want to use bitcoin or any cryptocurrency, don't.

The Federal Reserve in the process of building their own Fedcoin. I don't know what it will be called, but it's a CBDC(Central Bank Digital currency). Children born today will not understand why you ever had to go to a building somewhere in town to get money. It will all be some form of a Blockchain(which is what Fedcoin will be) and it will all bear some resemblance to bitcoin(in function essentially) except that Fedcoin will be centralized instead of distributed.

You are very knowledgeable and have a great understanding of the Value of cryptocurrency.
We have a TERRIFIC crypto club here in The Villages.
We meet in person the first Wed.of each month 9 am at Water Lily. You are welcome.
We also do smaller group meetings throughout the week.

[NoMo50]

Ever know or talk to a gambler? They can lavish you with details of their big winnings last weekend, but rarely talk about the losing forays. Sure...there are pros who consistently win, but they are very few and very far between. There is a reason the house always wins.

[ElDiabloJoe]

Hey,

Nobody is whining.

No need to be condescending. (Do I see a little ageism between the lines? Well, not exactly between the lines, is it?)

No need to be so upset because some people don’t care about Bitcoin and/or those people are not saying things you want to hear. Can’t find your trophy here?

Btw, even though I am oh so decrepit, I already knew about Fidelity playing to the Bitcoin crowd. That’s called marketing. Fidelity knows some people want to buy Bitcoin, so Fidelity is providing the tools for Bitcoin buyers to use — through Fidelity. That’s all. Fidelity does not actually know whether Bitcoin is going to be “OK” or not. (said Boomer, explaining patiently)

And, just for the record, guess what…….

Ya know that post I wrote earlier in this thread — about my dot-com bubble dancing days. Well, my dot-com funds were all Fidelity funds. But, at least I knew that Fidelity was not telling me dot-com was “OK.” Fidelity was just marketing to the times.

About your future TV house built of Bitcoin? Maybe so. Who knows? But I would lay some real money down on a bet that there are a whole lot of houses in TV built out of dividends, years and years and years of dividends.

Having fun at the Bitcoin Casino is fine, but maybe branch out a little. I was sure glad I had backup when I was putting my 403(b) in dot-com, and oh my, my, at the time, I thought I knew so much, so very much……….

Boomer (Advice 5 Cents)

^This. Concur 100%

[Joe C.]

Bitcoin can be good except if you're the last one holding it. I believe that it's a pyramid scheme that works well for those in the beginning and in the middle....... but not so good for those in the end. And if Bitcoin is so wonderful, how come they take dollars in trade? Because in the end, they'll have the dollars and you'll have nada.

[tophcfa]

To the OP, what was your motivation in creating this thread? I sense you are frustrated and are lashing out at crypto currency. I can sympathize, your hard earned dollars are diminishing at an advertised rate of 8 to 10% and the true purchasing power lost is likely much higher.

Sounds like you would benefit from coming to a Villages crypto currency club meeting. We actually have one tomorrow morning at the Water Lily rec center from 9am to 11am in person and we also have weekly virtual meetings Saturday mornings. Members of the crypto club can help teach you how to gain that to 8 to 10% back in interest bearing defi accounts.

If anyone in this thread would like more information and would like to have a constructive conversation about bitcoin and other crypto currencies reach out to me at dylanwaynetodd@gmail.com

Cheers,

Dylan

OP here. Lots of false assumptions in the above quoted post. The motivation for starting the thread was to share with fellow Villagers what a very well respected investor had to say about Bitcoin. Your jumping to a lot of conclusions. Just like dogs, golf, pickle-ball, types of music, etc…, everyone has an opinion about the pros and cons of various things. I get that a lot of people have both made and lost lots of $$$ on crypto. People have also made money on snake oil. As a retired investment professional, what bothers me about crypto is that I like to invest in assets that have some intrinsic underlying fundamental value, which crypto doesn’t! What frustrates me about crypto is that many of the smart minds of our society are spending their time, effort, and brain power buying and selling a digital token that adds no value to society. The efficient allocation of capital is a critical element of a productive society. Crypto is consuming valuable capital with no productive benefits. Wouldn’t it be great if those efforts were instead geared toward real investments/businesses that actually provide needed goods and services?

[coralway]

I always listen to what Mr. Buffet says about anything - but, I do my own dd. Other investors whom I also respect, say it is the future.

I have one BTC purchased at $6500.

[jimjamuser]

Tax cheats? The reality is no one wants to pay taxes. Everyone wants stuff, services.
A tax deduction? It is fair if I get it. If, someone else gets a deduction that is cheating.

Reality, there is a line on the tax form where you can pay more tax, if you choose to.

It is interesting. Our constitution is four pages. Our tax code is one hundred and eighty THOUSAND pages.

We know if you tax something you will have less of it. If, you subsidize something you will have more of it. We tax WORK. We tax SAVING. We subsidize POVERTY. We subsidize DEBT.
The US taxes INCOME from employment and from investments (investment income). The purpose of taxes is to give a government (federal, state, or local) the money that it needs to perform the tasks that the residents of that government want to have done and chose to have done by the voters in those governments. An individual may want a new bridge to be built in his city but he is powerless, by himself, to build it. A government can combine taxes paid by MANY
individuals to actually accomplish the building of this bridge - which is known as PROGRESS. Without government, each individual would still be in the Caveman period.
........A government often spends money to increase STABILITY and lawfulness in society. Everyone desires that. But, many complain when a government spends money to try to move individuals out of poverty or spends money on education. These complainers do not realize that they themselves benefit from that spent money because it gives them STABILITY and LAWFULNESS. It takes a government to build a bridge or a road, not just one shortsighted individual.
.......Any government needs tax revenue coming in. They COULD tas by many methods .....income, wealth, property value, number of children, by luck (or unluck ) of a lottery, by age, or by height. It could be any system using ANY variable. Obviously, INCOME is the normal variable of choice.

[jimjamuser]

He has not been indicted for tax fraud has he? Whose fault is it that congress can be bought to enable people to pay less taxes. Us foolish voters keep returning the same congressman to office
Actually, if I had my way, they would have term limits.

[jimjamuser]

Bitcoin does provide certain value as far as it being a private currency and it has an ability be used on the internet for micro transactions. This is something Warren Buffett doesn't understand. Also everything can we use for money if other people decide as value. Silver Pieces Of Eight which themselves can only be melted down for jewelry used to be used as well as large Stones cut into Wheels. We also use little pieces of plastic all credit cards which themselves are backed by little green pieces of paper are you put in your bank or by so cold faith of credit at your bank decides you are worth so in reality it is all game of faith
Good post, I agree. And civilization itself could come apart by wars or diseases. At which time people would go back to barter as in, "I will give you 2 fish for 1 rabbit".

[jimjamuser]

Bitcoin has created fortunes for many. Like all pyramid schemes those who know how to trade it or get in early often make a profit. But there have been many losers as well but their stories are rarely told.

Keep in mind that even though it has some practical applications, it was created out of thin air so there is nothing exclusive to Bitcoin as it can be replicated many times over as it has been. Bitcoin is now only about 50% of the total crypto market cap when at one time it was 99%. Yes it was the first mover and widely adopted but that is no guarantee that it will not be replaced by a better engineered crypto coin in the future. Also the use of so called "stable coins" in trading such as tether which have extremely low audit standards makes it even more suspect.

I do not think the government should attempt to regulate private sector economic activity but the the insane decision to infect the futures and derivative markets with this illusionary industry that has no physical value increases the likelihood of making its collapse to be a systemic risk to our economy.
Yes, that is one risk to economic stability, but there are several greater risks out there in the world today.

[jimjamuser]

OP here. Lots of false assumptions in the above quoted post. The motivation for starting the thread was to share with fellow Villagers what a very well respected investor had to say about Bitcoin. Your jumping to a lot of conclusions. Just like dogs, golf, pickle-ball, types of music, etc…, everyone has an opinion about the pros and cons of various things. I get that a lot of people have both made and lost lots of $$$ on crypto. People have also made money on snake oil. As a retired investment professional, what bothers me about crypto is that I like to invest in assets that have some intrinsic underlying fundamental value, which crypto doesn’t! What frustrates me about crypto is that many of the smart minds of our society are spending their time, effort, and brain power buying and selling a digital token that adds no value to society. The efficient allocation of capital is a critical element of a productive society. Crypto is consuming valuable capital with no productive benefits. Wouldn’t it be great if those efforts were instead geared toward real investments/businesses that actually provide needed goods and services?
Agreed, good post!

[ThirdOfFive]

Good post, I agree. And civilization itself could come apart by wars or diseases. At which time people would go back to barter as in, "I will give you 2 fish for 1 rabbit".
Don't take that deal. A rabbit is worth five fish. Easy.

[coralway]

Agreed, good post!





Many businesses accept BTC as a form of payment. You can purchase a new car with BTC from several dealers .

People are afraid of things they don't understand. How does that Lennon song go ..... living is easy with eyes closed misunderstanding all you see.

[Boston-Sean]

This thread should be forwarded to our new ministry of truth. Several posters would be indicted for misinformation.

I'll add one more thing ... BTC has been trading since 2011. It's currently at $38K. It's only traded above $38K for a little over a year. So every purchase made for the first 10 years was at a price below what it's trading at today. Pretty much all the HODL'ers are ahead of the game. Some of us by a LOT.

OK, 2 more things. Bitcoin IS exclusive. Only about 2 million more will ever be mined. Unlike those green pieces of paper in your wallets which get created out of thin air daily. The exclusivity is what sets BTC apart from Fiat currencies.

Ethereum is the only other significant crypto and serves a different purpose than Bitcoin. If you want to compare 99% of the rest of crypto's to tulips go ahead. But not Bitcoin.

[Boston-Sean]

Many businesses accept BTC as a form of payment. You can purchase a new car with BTC from several dealers .

People are afraid of things they don't understand. How does that Lennon song go ..... living is easy with eyes closed misunderstanding all you see.

I bought a gun with Bitcoin.

:: completely legally ::

[Fastskiguy]

This thread should be forwarded to our new ministry of truth. Several posters would be indicted for misinformation.

I'll add one more thing ... BTC has been trading since 2011. It's currently at $38K. It's only traded above $38K for a little over a year. So every purchase made for the first 10 years was at a price below what it's trading at today. Pretty much all the HODL'ers are ahead of the game. Some of us by a LOT.

OK, 2 more things. Bitcoin IS exclusive. Only about 2 million more will ever be mined. Unlike those green pieces of paper in your wallets which get created out of thin air daily. The exclusivity is what sets BTC apart from Fiat currencies.

Ethereum is the only other significant crypto and serves a different purpose than Bitcoin. If you want to compare 99% of the rest of crypto's to tulips go ahead. But not Bitcoin.

^^ Agreed.

There are strict rules on how many Bitcoin will ever be mined/produced. Which is not the same with the dollar. Do you realize that your government increased the total number of dollars by 1/3rd in the last 2 years? They have been doing it and will keep doing it....making the dollars in your wallet worth less and less.

Dollars are only worth something because we all agree they are worth something. Not unlike Bitcoin. Dollars have been around longer and have the "full faith of the US Government" (which...what does that even mean anyway??) but they are both currencies. One can be manipulated, one cannot.

Obviously you might want to think twice about putting it all on Bitcoin. But if it goes to $500K per in a few years you might look back and wish you picked one up somewhere along the way.

Joe

[Boston-Sean]

Bentley to accept cryptocurrency for tuition payments - The Boston Globe (https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/05/04/business/bentley-accept-cryptocurrency-tuition-payments/?camp=bg%3Abrief%3Arss%3Afeedly&rss_id=feedly_rss_brief&s_campaign=bostonglobe%3Asocialflow%3Atwitter)

[Boston-Sean]

Bentley to accept cryptocurrency for tuition payments - The Boston Globe (https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/05/04/business/bentley-accept-cryptocurrency-tuition-payments/?camp=bg%3Abrief%3Arss%3Afeedly&rss_id=feedly_rss_brief&s_campaign=bostonglobe%3Asocialflow%3Atwitter)

Can one of the posters here contact Bentley and explain that Bitcoin is a ponzi scheme to them? Hopefully, next year they won't do so well in the rankings.

Rankings & Recognition | Graduate Admission | Bentley University (https://www.bentley.edu/graduate/why-bentley/rankings)

[collie1228]

Buffet has always invested under the mantle of (rough quote) "if you don't understand it, don't invest in it". I've always followed that advice, and have no regrets. I have researched bitcoin and other crypto currencies, and simply do not understand how high speed powerful computers doing calculations to solve complex math problems creates any value. It just doesn't make any sense to me, so I avoid crypto completely. Great products, dividends and strong balance sheets I understand. Call me old fashioned.

[Boston-Sean]

Buffet has always invested under the mantle of (rough quote) "if you don't understand it, don't invest in it". I've always followed that advice, and have no regrets. I have researched bitcoin and other crypto currencies, and simply do not understand how high speed powerful computers doing calculations to solve complex math problems creates any value. It just doesn't make any sense to me, so I avoid crypto completely. Great products, dividends and strong balance sheets I understand. Call me old fashioned.

That's perfectly reasonable.

It's the people who go out of their way to scream about how awful bitcoin is like on this thread that I have a problem with. Especially when most don't understand it.

Buffet famously didn't buy Apple for decades. Until he did. Thankfully I ignored him on that as well.

[manaboutown]

This I found interesting. Warren Buffett acquired 90 to 95% of his net worth since age 65. He has also given away billions along the way.

Buffett made 95% of his wealth after the age of 65 | Cambridge House International (https://cambridgehouse.com/news/8730/warren-buffett-will-die-with-billions)

Warren Buffett Has Amassed Over 90% of His Wealth Since He Turned 65 | Barron's (https://www.barrons.com/articles/warren-buffett-has-amassed-over-90-of-his-wealth-since-he-turned-65-51648738715)

Bill Gates is now big in farmland. Bill Gates is the biggest private owner of farmland in the United States. Why? | Nick Estes | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/apr/05/bill-gates-climate-crisis-farmland)

[Boston-Sean]

Buffet vs another famous investor

[MorTech]

Don't take that deal. A rabbit is worth five fish. Easy.

At least you won't have 2 fish stolen from you in taxes.

[dewilson58]

Buffet vs another famous investor

Who?? Oh, flash in the pan.

[Caymus]

Can one of the posters here contact Bentley and explain that Bitcoin is a ponzi scheme to them? Hopefully, next year they won't do so well in the rankings.

Rankings & Recognition | Graduate Admission | Bentley University (https://www.bentley.edu/graduate/why-bentley/rankings)

I find it amusing that multiple Boston Area Colleges lost millions to Madoff and his Ponzi scheme.

[manaboutown]

I find this parable possibly relevant to cryptocurrency created out of nothing. Parable: The Emperor Has No Clothes | by Mattimore Cronin | Medium (https://medium.com/@mattimore/parable-the-emperor-has-no-clothes-ace63fef6eb8)

[Boston-Sean]

Lots of people in Stage 1: Shock + Denial here

The 5 Stages Of Getting Orange-Pilled | ZeroHedge (https://www.zerohedge.com/crypto/5-stages-getting-orange-pilled)

[ithos]

You can buy a boatload of Bitcoin with Tether. Too bad you can not invest in the issuer of Tether.

According to a recent study, 70 percent of Bitcoin trading is done in Tethers. On any given day, Tether is by far the most-traded coin, its volume often double that of Bitcoin. If you want to gamble at the crypto casino, you need Tethers.

Ben McKenzie on Tether, the potential danger at the center of the crypto economy. (https://slate.com/technology/2021/10/tether-crypto-danger-ben-mckenzie.html#:~:text=According%20to%20a%20recent% 20study,trading%20is%20done%20in%20Tethers).

Anyone Seen Tether’s Billions

Bloomberg - Are you a robot? (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-10-07/crypto-mystery-where-s-the-69-billion-backing-the-stablecoin-tether)

[manaboutown]

One Amazing Stat That Captures Warren Buffett’s Investing Career (https://finance.yahoo.com/m/a57d2130-5b5a-37e3-9286-59d6d1a500a9/one-amazing-stat-that.html)

[Boston-Sean]

I'm old enough to remember when Buffet would spout off non-stop about how the "rich" should pay more in taxes. Then Propublica got a dump of IRS data on the richest people in America. No more sermonizing from Buffet once this story got published:

No one among the 25 wealthiest avoided as much tax as Buffett, the grandfatherly centibillionaire. That’s perhaps surprising, given his public stance as an advocate of higher taxes for the rich. According to Forbes, his riches rose $24.3 billion between 2014 and 2018. Over those years, the data shows, Buffett reported paying $23.7 million in taxes.


Warren Buffett
Berkshire Hathaway Inc.
2014-2018 Wealth Growth:
$24.3B
Total Income Reported:
$125M (0.51% of wealth)
Total Taxes Paid:
$23.7M (0.10% of wealth)
Note: Values in the graphic are rounded.
That works out to a true tax rate of 0.1%, or less than 10 cents for every $100 he added to his wealth.

[Stu from NYC]

I'm old enough to remember when Buffet would spout off non-stop about how the "rich" should pay more in taxes. Then Propublica got a dump of IRS data on the richest people in America. No more sermonizing from Buffet once this story got published:

No one among the 25 wealthiest avoided as much tax as Buffett, the grandfatherly centibillionaire. That’s perhaps surprising, given his public stance as an advocate of higher taxes for the rich. According to Forbes, his riches rose $24.3 billion between 2014 and 2018. Over those years, the data shows, Buffett reported paying $23.7 million in taxes.


Warren Buffett
Berkshire Hathaway Inc.
2014-2018 Wealth Growth:
$24.3B
Total Income Reported:
$125M (0.51% of wealth)
Total Taxes Paid:
$23.7M (0.10% of wealth)
Note: Values in the graphic are rounded.
That works out to a true tax rate of 0.1%, or less than 10 cents for every $100 he added to his wealth.

The problem is the rich are able to buy enough congressman to make laws to help them avoid taxes. Term limits would be a good way to stop this.

[manaboutown]

"As of July 2020—when he donated about 16 million Berkshire Hathaway Class B shares, worth around $2.9 billion—Buffett had given away more than $37.4 billion to philanthropic causes, according to Reuters.

Earlier in the year, Buffett topped Forbes and SHOOK Research’s list of the biggest philanthropic donors in America after giving away $14.7 billion, or about 16 percent of his net worth, over a five-year span.

In June 2021, news of Buffett's largest donation to date was somewhat overshadowed by the news he also had resigned from the Gates Foundation board. However, the 4.1 billion stock donation in 2021 surpassed his previous top donation in 2019, when he gave away $3.6 billion, according to Reuters."

From: How Much Has Warren Buffett Donated to Charity? (https://marketrealist.com/p/how-much-has-warren-buffett-donated/)

“Anyone may arrange his affairs so that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which best pays the treasury. There is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes. Over and over again the Courts have said that there is nothing sinister in so arranging affairs as to keep taxes as low as possible. Everyone does it, rich and poor alike and all do right, for nobody owes any public duty to pay more than the law demands.”

~ Judge Learned Hand
(1872-1961), Judge, U. S. Court of Appeals
in the case of Gregory v. Helvering 69 F.2d 809, 810 (2d Cir. 1934), aff'd, 293 U.S. 465, 55 S.Ct. 266, 79 L.Ed. 596 (1935)

[manaboutown]

The problem is the rich are able to buy enough congressman to make laws to help them avoid taxes. Term limits would be a good way to stop this.

"The top 10 percent of earners bore responsibility for over 71 percent of all income taxes paid and the top 25 percent paid 87 percent of all income taxes. Both of those figures represent an increased tax share compared to 2017. The top fifty percent of filers earned 88 percent of all income and were responsible for 97 percent of all income taxes paid in 2018."

From: Who Pays Income Taxes? - Foundation - National Taxpayers Union (https://www.ntu.org/foundation/tax-page/who-pays-income-taxes)

"On Wednesday, the Tax Policy Center (TPC) released estimates on the portion of households with no federal income tax liability, finding that in 2020, about 60.6 percent of households did not pay income tax, up from 43.6 percent of households in 2019."

From: Increasing Share of U.S. Households Paying No Income Tax (https://taxfoundation.org/us-households-paying-no-income-tax/)

[ithos]

This may explain some of the carnage seen in bitcoin lately.

One type of cryptocurrency, a so-called stablecoin, is meant to keep its value at $1. But on Monday, the third-biggest stablecoin, TerraUSD, fell as low as 69 cents, causing a flood of investors to sell their holdings.

Cryptocurrency TerraUSD Falls Below Fixed Value, Triggering Selloff - WSJ (https://www.wsj.com/articles/cryptocurrency-terrausd-falls-below-fixed-value-triggering-selloff-11652122461)

The crypto whales will do everything they can to keep bitcoin above $30. A good time if you are a trader.

[Love2Swim]

Darn it, kid. You made me log back on.

That 100%-plus was fast, real fast. I was so happy with my new-found talent. I bragged — but only to Mr. Boomer. There is an old saying about people who go around bragging about money or whatever else — something about the ratio of hat to cattle.

Congrats on the energy thing though. I like energy. (And so did some big deal guy on WealthTrack last week.) I just don’t have any interest in Bitcoin. Why take that so personally and start name-calling?

“Just watching the show,” you say. We are the show. I have let this turn into some kind of generation v. generation thing. It needs to stop. I’m the grownup, so I’ll stop it.

End scene.

Boomer

PS: For anybody watching Ozark: I am on the second new episode. I am betting Ruth kills Wendy at the end of the season. (This is the last season.) But that bet might be like my dot-com bet. We’ll see.

:bigbow:

[ithos]

Now Tether is starting to look a little shaky. If it goes look out below.

Tether price | index, chart and news | WorldCoinIndex (https://www.worldcoinindex.com/coin/tether)

[Rainger99]

It is interesting. Our constitution is four pages. Our tax code is one hundred and eighty THOUSAND pages.

But those were big pages!!!

https://constitutioncenter.org/media/files/constitution.pdf

[Topspinmo]

"As of July 2020—when he donated about 16 million Berkshire Hathaway Class B shares, worth around $2.9 billion—Buffett had given away more than $37.4 billion to philanthropic causes, according to Reuters.

Earlier in the year, Buffett topped Forbes and SHOOK Research’s list of the biggest philanthropic donors in America after giving away $14.7 billion, or about 16 percent of his net worth, over a five-year span.

In June 2021, news of Buffett's largest donation to date was somewhat overshadowed by the news he also had resigned from the Gates Foundation board. However, the 4.1 billion stock donation in 2021 surpassed his previous top donation in 2019, when he gave away $3.6 billion, according to Reuters."

From: How Much Has Warren Buffett Donated to Charity? (https://marketrealist.com/p/how-much-has-warren-buffett-donated/)

“Anyone may arrange his affairs so that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which best pays the treasury. There is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes. Over and over again the Courts have said that there is nothing sinister in so arranging affairs as to keep taxes as low as possible. Everyone does it, rich and poor alike and all do right, for nobody owes any public duty to pay more than the law demands.”

~ Judge Learned Hand
(1872-1961), Judge, U. S. Court of Appeals
in the case of Gregory v. Helvering 69 F.2d 809, 810 (2d Cir. 1934), aff'd, 293 U.S. 465, 55 S.Ct. 266, 79 L.Ed. 596 (1935)

Foundations are tax shelters for rich. They get to control money and pass it out to relatives on million dollar plus payrolls. All while the deducting it off as tax breaks.

[Love2Swim]

I'm old enough to remember when Buffet would spout off non-stop about how the "rich" should pay more in taxes. Then Propublica got a dump of IRS data on the richest people in America. No more sermonizing from Buffet once this story got published:

No one among the 25 wealthiest avoided as much tax as Buffett, the grandfatherly centibillionaire. That’s perhaps surprising, given his public stance as an advocate of higher taxes for the rich. According to Forbes, his riches rose $24.3 billion between 2014 and 2018. Over those years, the data shows, Buffett reported paying $23.7 million in taxes.


Warren Buffett
Berkshire Hathaway Inc.
2014-2018 Wealth Growth:
$24.3B
Total Income Reported:
$125M (0.51% of wealth)
Total Taxes Paid:
$23.7M (0.10% of wealth)
Note: Values in the graphic are rounded.
That works out to a true tax rate of 0.1%, or less than 10 cents for every $100 he added to his wealth.

So what's the point? His accountants followed the tax laws and he paid what our laws said he should. I imagine he was arguing that the laws should be changed. In the meantime, are you implying he should just ignore the laws and make a donation to the government? Instead he donated billions to charity and has pledged to give away 99% of his net worth. I say good for him.

[tvbound]

So what's the point? His accountants followed the tax laws and he paid what our laws said he should. I imagine he was arguing that the laws should be changed. In the meantime, are you implying he should just ignore the laws and make a donation to the government? Instead he donated billions to charity and has pledged to give away 99% of his net worth. I say good for him.


"Instead he donated billions to charity and has pledged to give away 99% of his net worth. I say good for him."

A lot of those who hate Buffett, purposely ignore this fact. Ironically, a lot of them are also pro-crypto and hate him because of his negative comments about it, but I wonder how they feel now - after crypto's massive fall lately? LOL

[tvbound]

Buffet vs another famous investor

LOL, cherry picked old news. By the way - what's the score now? ;)

[manaboutown]

I like Buffett. He is old school as am I.

[ElDiabloJoe]

I usually don’t agree with tax cheats, but in this case I do.:duck:
If it is a legal loophole, it is not cheating. Like they teach in law school, there is NO such thing as right and wrong. There is only legal and illegal. Kinda 'slains the (lack of) moral code in that profession, don't it?

[Boston-Sean]

[i][b] I wonder how they feel now - after crypto's massive fall lately? LOL

Same as all the other "massive falls". Wait that's not true. Some of the others have been 80 or 90% falls.

So this one is not so bad. So far.

[tvbound]

Same as all the other "massive falls". Wait that's not true. Some of the others have been 80 or 90% falls.

So this one is not so bad. So far.

Unlike stocks in companies that actually produce something, or have tangible assets, crypto is nothing more than a pyramid/Ponzi scheme that is basically unregulated at the moment. Once the suckers at the bottom become spooked and regulation moves in - the whole thing falls down. It's happening now.

[ithos]

Bitcoin probably has some major moves to the upside left in it. The crypto whales still have the same manipulative tricks up their sleeves and there will probably be another wave of hedge funds and billionaires who will dive in for the first time because of FOMO. But the recovery from 80% pull backs that so many talk about happened when the market cap was much lower so it took far less inflow of new money to make that happen. The higher it goes the more greater fool money it will take to keep it thriving as so many early adopters are cashing in while they can.

Also if you look at the major moves they were when PayPal became brokers, derivative markets entered the fray and when the bitcoin ETF was created. The only catalyst you have left that I can think of is if governments start to pile in like El Salvador did.

I still believe that Tether will be its downfall once it has been exposed or a superior crypto becomes widely adopted. Also there are many major institutions and corporations who piled in late have to report why their investments dropped 30 to 40% in one or two quarters that will not repeat that mistake.

[Love2Swim]

"Instead he donated billions to charity and has pledged to give away 99% of his net worth. I say good for him."

A lot of those who hate Buffett, purposely ignore this fact. Ironically, a lot of them are also pro-crypto and hate him because of his negative comments about it, but I wonder how they feel now - after crypto's massive fall lately? LOL

Agree. :bigbow:

[Stu from NYC]

"Instead he donated billions to charity and has pledged to give away 99% of his net worth. I say good for him."

A lot of those who hate Buffett, purposely ignore this fact. Ironically, a lot of them are also pro-crypto and hate him because of his negative comments about it, but I wonder how they feel now - after crypto's massive fall lately? LOL

Very interesting man. Really enjoyed reading his book. Brilliant investor who has done very well by his stockholders

[Fastskiguy]

I'm not pro or anti buffett but you've gotta admit he's done pretty well when the US money printing press is rolling. The government can't just print more bitcoin when things get tight. I think a lot of people would like a currency that the government can't mess with. But, on the other hand, if you made bazillions of freshly created dollars by "helping" the government....you might just be anti crypto.

Joe

[Boston-Sean]

Bitcoin probably has some major moves to the upside left in it. The crypto whales still have the same manipulative tricks up their sleeves and there will probably be another wave of hedge funds and billionaires who will dive in for the first time because of FOMO. But the recovery from 80% pull backs that so many talk about happened when the market cap was much lower so it took far less inflow of new money to make that happen. The higher it goes the more greater fool money it will take to keep it thriving as so many early adopters are cashing in while they can.

Also if you look at the major moves they were when PayPal became brokers, derivative markets entered the fray and when the bitcoin ETF was created. The only catalyst you have left that I can think of is if governments start to pile in like El Salvador did.

I still believe that Tether will be its downfall once it has been exposed or a superior crypto becomes widely adopted. Also there are many major institutions and corporations who piled in late have to report why their investments dropped 30 to 40% in one or two quarters that will not repeat that mistake.

You make some good points but there are more catalysts ahead. There is no real Bitcoin ETF. Yet. It will get approved eventually and when it does even people like the luddites in this thread will jump in. There is also scarcity. Only 2 mil more will be mined. Another halfing coming up in 2 years. Those have been catalysts in the past.

There will also be headline upside when cash rich companies like Apple + Google announce they're carrying BTC on their balance sheets. That is coming.

It's still early days as far as main stream adoption goes. When every 401K has the option to buy BTC then we'll be near full adoption. By then we'll be trading a fixed asset with minimal new coins available.

With BTC still standing pretty strong while many many crap coins tanked completely that is just one more argument for BTC as the singular mainstream crypto asset.

The ponzi scheme analogies are pretty funny. Especially coming from people watching their Fiat currencies shrink in front of their eyes.

[Fastskiguy]

The ponzi scheme analogies are pretty funny. Especially coming from people watching their Fiat currencies shrink in front of their eyes.

Repeating for emphasis!

Joe

[Boston-Sean]

"Instead he donated billions to charity and has pledged to give away 99% of his net worth. I say good for him."

A lot of those who hate Buffett, purposely ignore this fact. Ironically, a lot of them are also pro-crypto and hate him because of his negative comments about it, but I wonder how they feel now - after crypto's massive fall lately? LOL


Yes, let's all follow Buffets example. Give all our money to causes we believe in, leaving next to nothing for taxes. All while scolding everyone else to pay their fair share of taxes.

The govt would collapse but so what. We'd feel good about ourselves for giving so much money away. And sycophants would worship us. That's all that matters, right?

No one likes a hypocrite. Especially a sanctimonious one.

Buffet was being interviewed on CNBC years back. You've all see these interviews where Buffet holds court explaining how he's so much smarter than everyone else. The topic turned to politics and Buffet jumped in with an example of how he judges politicians. According to Buffet he asks them to give him examples of positions they've taken that hurt them politically but they stuck by anyway because it was the right thing to do. Of course if the Pol couldn't come up with an example, Buffet dismissed him/her as unworthy of his support.

As Buffet sat there glowing with moral superiority, Becky Quick hit him with a followup: So what did Hillary Clinton say when you asked her that? (Hillary was running for President at the time and Buffet was a big supporter)

A great question.

Buffet started stammering and stuttering so bad I thought they were going to have to call an EMT. Turns out he never asked Hillary that question because he didn't want to put her on the spot.

All this Buffet worship is nauseating.

[Stu from NYC]

Yes, let's all follow Buffets example. Give all our money to causes we believe in, leaving next to nothing for taxes. All while scolding everyone else to pay their fair share of taxes.

The govt would collapse but so what. We'd feel good about ourselves for giving so much money away. And sycophants would worship us. That's all that matters, right?

No one likes a hypocrite. Especially a sanctimonious one.

Buffet was being interviewed on CNBC years back. You've all see these interviews where Buffet holds court explaining how he's so much smarter than everyone else. The topic turned to politics and Buffet jumped in with an example of how he judges politicians. According to Buffet he asks them to give him examples of positions they've taken that hurt them politically but they stuck by anyway because it was the right thing to do. Of course if the Pol couldn't come up with an example, Buffet dismissed him/her as unworthy of his support.

As Buffet sat there glowing with moral superiority, Becky Quick hit him with a followup: So what did Hillary Clinton say when you asked her that? (Hillary was running for President at the time and Buffet was a big supporter)

A great question.

Buffet started stammering and stuttering so bad I thought they were going to have to call an EMT. Turns out he never asked Hillary that question because he didn't want to put her on the spot.

All this Buffet worship is nauseating.

As an investing guru he has done an incredible job for his stockholders.

[tvbound]

As an investing guru he has done an incredible job for his stockholders.


"As an investing guru he has done an incredible job for his stockholders."

And a lot of the hatred toward him, is because he has done it through smart, steady diversification for decades, versus the selfish "wanna get rich quick" schemers. Right now, as they watch their pyramid/Ponzi scheme take massive hits (with most likely more to come) - they really hate him. lol

[Boston-Sean]

"As an investing guru he has done an incredible job for his stockholders."

And a lot of the hatred toward him, is because he has done it through smart, steady diversification for decades, versus the selfish "wanna get rich quick" schemers. Right now, as they watch their pyramid/Ponzi scheme take massive hits (with most likely more to come) - they really hate him. lol

Take a look in your wallet:

[manaboutown]

As an investing guru he has done an incredible job for his stockholders.

It was just dumb luck but I bought a (very) few shares of BRK in the mid 1980s at about $3,000 per share. It is now of course BRK-A. I am as happy as a clam about that!

BRK was $375 per share in 1980. I find Buffett's investment record beyond amazing.

[Stu from NYC]

It was just dumb luck but I bought a (very) few shares of BRK in the mid 1980s at about $3,000 per share. It is now of course BRK-A. I am as happy as a clam about that!

BRK was $375 per share in 1980. I find Buffett's investment record beyond amazing.

Read his book very interesting fellow.

[manaboutown]

Read his book very interesting fellow.

Do you mean "Warren Buffett's Ground Rules: Words of Wisdom from the Partnership Letters of the World's Greatest Investor'"?

I have several books on him in my library. "The Snowball" is my favorite.

[Stu from NYC]

Do you mean "Warren Buffett's Ground Rules: Words of Wisdom from the Partnership Letters of the World's Greatest Investor'"?

I have several books on him in my library. "The Snowball" is my favorite.

The Snowball. Read it after it came out thinking it is worth rereading, hopefully the library will have it.

[ithos]

I wonder why Buffett did not mention Tether, Bitcoins Achilles heel.

In an interview with the Financial Times last week, Tether executive Paolo Ardoino said revealing details about the group’s reserve management would give away the company’s “secret sauce”.
Investors pull $7bn from Tether as stablecoin jitters intensify | Financial Times (https://www.ft.com/content/db9c3f32-cd91-4149-9788-95b2046bea10)

According to Kaiko, 70 percent of bitcoin trading activity during the last three months was denominated in tether, with other stablecoins (primarily the dollar-denominated BUSD, FTXUSD and USDC) representing an additional 13 percent of overall bitcoin volumes.
Tether dominates bitcoin trading - New Money Review (https://newmoneyreview.com/index.php/2021/10/11/tether-dominates-bitcoin-trading/)

One down. More to follow?
https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/terrausd/
.
.

[Boston-Sean]

Oh how could I forget my favorite Buffetism.

One of his most famous holdings was Coke and the covered calls he wrote for years that made a ton of money.

As evidence of how bad sugar was piled up Buffet continued to insist Coke was a healthy product. "I drink a Cherry Coke with my dinner every night and I'm fine".

Meanwhile millions of Americans became obese and diabetic. Especially black Americans; while Buffet laughed all the way to the bank.

He's a swell guy all right.

[Stu from NYC]

Oh how could I forget my favorite Buffetism.

One of his most famous holdings was Coke and the covered calls he wrote for years that made a ton of money.

As evidence of how bad sugar was piled up Buffet continued to insist Coke was a healthy product. "I drink a Cherry Coke with my dinner every night and I'm fine".

Meanwhile millions of Americans became obese and diabetic. Especially black Americans; while Buffet laughed all the way to the bank.

He's a swell guy all right.

He satisfied a demand nobody was forced to drink it.

[manaboutown]

Warren eats breakfast from a McDonald's drive through.

"Warren Buffett, one of the world's wealthiest billionaires, eats the same breakfast every day. He stops by McDonald's on the way to his office and orders one of the three items – two sausage patties, egg, and cheese, or a bacon, egg, and cheese."

From: What frugal billionaire eats almost every breakfast at McDonald’s? (https://whatanikasays.com/what-frugal-billionaire-eats-almost-every-breakfast-at-mcdonalds/)

He does not drink alcohol or smoke tobacco products. In any case at age 91 he is still going strong.