brownwood ,tear down windmill and water tower

[village dreamer]

its going to cost us .... $225k to tear down and replace the water tower and windmill in brownwood. the wood is all rotten. just tear it down . somebodys brother inlaw is making a lot of money.

[Keefelane66]

And why do The Villagers need to pay for it?

[Papa_lecki]

#1- if homeowners were to pay for it, it would cost like $1 each.

$2 - i am pretty sure the developer owns the squares, not amenity authorities.

[Keefelane66]

#1- if homeowners were to pay for it, it would cost like $1 each.

$2 - i am pretty sure the developer owns the squares, not amenity authorities.
Oh we're going to pay!
“ The Project Wide Advisory Committee will be asked to consider an emergency budget resolution to fund the demolition and restoration of the windmill and the water tower, which have no useful function and are purely decorative.


The windmill and water tower at Brownwood Paddock Square will have to be torn down and rebuilt at a cost of $225,000.
The amount of the demolition and restoration of the windmill and water tower is estimated at $225,000. The money would come from maintenance assessment fees paid by residents of The Villages living south of County Road 466.”

[dewilson58]

Dreamer...............$225k sounds like a lot in your life, but it is costing you nothing extra.

Breath and enjoy the wonderful square.

[retiredguy123]

If $225K is the actual cost to replace both structures, it sounds like a bargain to me. Decoration at a square is a useful function. What's the big deal?

[Bill14564]

If you read the article, linked in the original, about the $63K to rebuild the entrance, when the PWAC objected to paying for a structure in Brownwood Square they were informed that the PWAC "owned" the maintenance of it.

Not sure if that applies to everything in the square or only the non-commercial structures. I cynically suspect that the PWAC "owns" the expenses and the BCDD "owns" the income.

[Bill14564]

If $225K is the actual cost to replace both structures, it sounds like a bargain to me. Decoration at a square is a useful function. What's the big deal?

$225K extra on top of $700K extra for the new trail on top of whatever is being paid to repair the sinkholes both north and south of 44... I may be getting some of my funding mixed but the point is, a couple hundred thousand here and a few hundred thousand there and it begins to add up.

[village dreamer]

maybe we should extend happy hour , take the profits for the tower and windmill. then everyones happy.:MOJE_whot::MOJE_whot::MOJE_whot:

[retiredguy123]

$225K extra on top of $700K extra for the new trail on top of whatever is being paid to repair the sinkholes both north and south of 44... I may be getting some of my funding mixed but the point is, a couple hundred thousand here and a few hundred thousand there and it begins to add up.
I worked in Federal construction. Looking at the photos of those two structures, I'm thinking millions, not thousands. LOL.

[Bill14564]

I worked in Federal construction. Looking at the photos of those two structures, I'm thinking millions, not thousands. LOL.

Oh, I misunderstood your point. That would make sense. The trail ballooned to five times the original estimate, why not this too?

[Garywt]

For someone who lived through the Big Dig in Boston, things do add up.

Of course if they just take them down the next post will be, look what else the Morse family took away from us, I can see the end of Brownwood coming…

$225,000 is not much in this day and age and things need to be maintained or replaced as needed.

[Keefelane66]

The Developer is under such financial distress maybe we should all pitch in to help.

[Topspinmo]

If $225K is the actual cost to replace both structures, it sounds like a bargain to me. Decoration at a square is a useful function. What's the big deal?


Yep, just like the walking trail. 225 will turn into 850……

[Stu from NYC]

So who actually does own the squares? If the developer why are they not responsible for maintenance?

[ronciecka]

The Villages did not use treated wood and then did not periodically spray the structures with preservative. The structures helped them sell homes so they should be willing to pay at least half the cost. Also, phone companies and companies that build and then lease antennas should be asked if they would like to build an antenna disguised as a windmill or water tower.

[tophcfa]

It hard to believe that no one realized an outdoor structure built with non pressure treated lumber wouldn’t last more than a few years in the Florida heat and humidity? Whoever designed the original structure should be fired for total incompetence.

[Worldseries27]

the developer is under such financial distress maybe we should all pitch in to help.
i agree. They can keep the tower but install an apartment within it a la the spanish springs economic model.

[Stu from NYC]

It hard to believe that no one realized an outdoor structure built with non pressure treated lumber wouldn’t last more than a few years in the Florida heat and humidity? Whoever designed the original structure should be fired for total incompetence.

I have a piece of treated 2 x 4 in my garage can we donate it to the rebuilding campaign?

[Luggage]

Personally I think you should add a toll booth at the entrance and let all the easy pass SunPass people pay

[Rsenholzi]

Are you kidding me? They are the ones making the money . We are the retired ones living on a fixed income. They use a shoddy company to lay in the piping under the roads in the villas and we have to pay for it. They are making money from the businesses in the squares- not only from the rents but additional money from a percentage of what they sell and we have to pay for the upkeep. They keep trying to taking parking spaces from the squares for their rental apartments and who loses out - the people who visit the squares to keep the businesses running because during snowbird season there is no parking. Movie Theaters disappeared during COVID because people couldn’t go and movies weren’t being made so they closed 2 of them! Their plan - to make more apartments and lose more parking on the squares. Mark my words - their plan is to close the squares so they don’t have to pay for the entertainment. They already refused to renew the contract with the police so there will be no police presence in the squares- another thing we are losing. They don’t care about the people - all they care about is lining their pockets with the green stuff

[bowlingal]

always more than the original estimate and always longer than what is first stated

[kidnerkim]

Tear them down & put in more seating

[crash]

Tear them down & put in more seating

How about any seating.

[crash]

Are you kidding me? They are the ones making the money . We are the retired ones living on a fixed income. They use a shoddy company to lay in the piping under the roads in the villas and we have to pay for it. They are making money from the businesses in the squares- not only from the rents but additional money from a percentage of what they sell and we have to pay for the upkeep. They keep trying to taking parking spaces from the squares for their rental apartments and who loses out - the people who visit the squares to keep the businesses running because during snowbird season there is no parking. Movie Theaters disappeared during COVID because people couldn’t go and movies weren’t being made so they closed 2 of them! Their plan - to make more apartments and lose more parking on the squares. Mark my words - their plan is to close the squares so they don’t have to pay for the entertainment. They already refused to renew the contract with the police so there will be no police presence in the squares- another thing we are losing. They don’t care about the people - all they care about is lining their pockets with the green stuff

They don’t pay for the entertainment the merchants in the square does.

[Goldwingnut]

So who actually does own the squares? If the developer why are they not responsible for maintenance?

Both are owned by the Brownwood CDD (a unit of local government not a private entity - aka the developer) and are included in Exhibit A of the Project Wide Agreement as are most of the public/entertainment areas in both LSL and BW. So, under the terms of the Project Wide Agreement the maintenance will fall to the Project Wide Fund. They are no different than many other structures and facilities in the community owned by all the CDDs that fall under the agreement, the key difference in my mind is that these are purely ornamental and have no functional need or requirement.

Knowing well the current PWF budget and having seen the proposed budget that is still being worked for next fiscal year I'm still on the fence with this "emergency?" budget item. How did they get in this condition so fast? Why are we only just now seeing the problem? How does a real windmill last decades on a farm but just 10 years in the town square? What will be lost if both are just raised and not rebuilt? How many residents have ever noticed they even existed? What are the legal responsibilities for the Project Wide Agreement to keep/replace the feature? These and many more unanswered questions need to be answered.

[midiwiz]

The Villages did not use treated wood and then did not periodically spray the structures with preservative. The structures helped them sell homes so they should be willing to pay at least half the cost. Also, phone companies and companies that build and then lease antennas should be asked if they would like to build an antenna disguised as a windmill or water tower.

that makes far too much sense..... rethink that LOL.

[midiwiz]

....

Knowing well the current PWF budget and having seen the proposed budget that is still being worked for next fiscal year I'm still on the fence with this "emergency?" budget item. How did they get in this condition so fast? Why are we only just now seeing the problem? How does a real windmill last decades on a farm but just 10 years in the town square? What will be lost if both are just raised and not rebuilt? How many residents have ever noticed they even existed? What are the legal responsibilities for the Project Wide Agreement to keep/replace the feature? These and many more unanswered questions need to be answered.

How did they get in this condition so fast? Poor expectations, design, build, cheap materials.
Why are we only just now seeing the problem? Come on you've watched the federal government haven't you? same thing.
How does a real windmill last decades on a farm but just 10 years in the town square? Better everything, and not cheap.
What will be lost if both are just raised and not rebuilt? Absolutely nothing at all
How many residents have ever noticed they even existed? not until now, actually the entire outside decor while I understand goes with the theme, is actually somewhat ugly and over the top.

[Lindaws]

Monthly amen. fees will go up. Residents are also responsible for all these
bridges.

[Worldseries27]

it hard to believe that no one realized an outdoor structure built with non pressure treated lumber wouldn’t last more than a few years in the florida heat and humidity? Whoever designed the original structure should be fired for total incompetence.
heard they used brown wood

[stone8735]

its going to cost us .... $225k to tear down and replace the water tower and windmill in brownwood. the wood is all rotten. just tear it down . somebodys brother inlaw is making a lot of money.

We have a multimillion dollar woodshop. Let's have those guys do all the work

[Nucky]

Wow, just Wow! Enjoy your retirement. Go do something useful with your time. Thankfully they caught it before someone got hurt. Not many things have a ten year warranty. Repairing stuff around here is the reason it’s still beautiful after all these years.

[Driver8]

For someone who lived through the Big Dig in Boston, things do add up.

Of course if they just take them down the next post will be, look what else the Morse family took away from us, I can see the end of Brownwood coming…

$225,000 is not much in this day and age and things need to be maintained or replaced as needed.
They're concentrating on phasing out Spanish Springs now. I don't see Brownwood going anywhere anytime soon.

[Worldseries27]

its going to cost us .... $225k to tear down and replace the water tower and windmill in brownwood. The wood is all rotten. Just tear it down . Somebodys brother inlaw is making a lot of money.
we need some global hawk and predators to buzz that tower so we can see what's going on.

[Gunny2403]

It’s a reasonable price for a landmark feature. Lighten up.

[airstreamingypsy]

You can build a three bedroom house for $225,000.00, how can a windmill and water tower base cost that much?

[Ski Bum]

Well, since this is the adult Disneyland... Tear it down, put in a Tower of Doom ride. Sell tickets. Problem solved.

[spd2918]

I encourage all the chronic complainers to sell their "shoddily built" homes immediately. Since people want to move here you will make a huge profit (that evil thing the developer seeks).

Risk all your money, start your own village, and be happy. You are obviously much smarter than the developer. But you might find people will bitch and complain about your every move.

(Sorry for being so salty... I've been sick for a week)

[Bogie Shooter]

Monthly amen. fees will go up. Residents are also responsible for all these
bridges.

Not really.

[sbb1256]

Both are owned by the Brownwood CDD (a unit of local government not a private entity - aka the developer) and are included in Exhibit A of the Project Wide Agreement as are most of the public/entertainment areas in both LSL and BW. So, under the terms of the Project Wide Agreement the maintenance will fall to the Project Wide Fund. They are no different than many other structures and facilities in the community owned by all the CDDs that fall under the agreement, the key difference in my mind is that these are purely ornamental and have no functional need or requirement.

Knowing well the current PWF budget and having seen the proposed budget that is still being worked for next fiscal year I'm still on the fence with this "emergency?" budget item. How did they get in this condition so fast? Why are we only just now seeing the problem? How does a real windmill last decades on a farm but just 10 years in the town square? What will be lost if both are just raised and not rebuilt? How many residents have ever noticed they even existed? What are the legal responsibilities for the Project Wide Agreement to keep/replace the feature? These and many more unanswered questions need to be answered.

Don, thanks for your knowledgeable, and non-snarky, answer. However, I'm still confused. What part of the square does the developer own and maintain, and what part do we as Villagers own and maintain? (And who reaps any profit derived?) Since every inch of the squares is available to non- Villagers, why are residents (through their amenity fees) required to pay for maintenance of this property?

[Topspinmo]

Both are owned by the Brownwood CDD (a unit of local government not a private entity - aka the developer) and are included in Exhibit A of the Project Wide Agreement as are most of the public/entertainment areas in both LSL and BW. So, under the terms of the Project Wide Agreement the maintenance will fall to the Project Wide Fund. They are no different than many other structures and facilities in the community owned by all the CDDs that fall under the agreement, the key difference in my mind is that these are purely ornamental and have no functional need or requirement.

Knowing well the current PWF budget and having seen the proposed budget that is still being worked for next fiscal year I'm still on the fence with this "emergency?" budget item. How did they get in this condition so fast? Why are we only just now seeing the problem? How does a real windmill last decades on a farm but just 10 years in the town square? What will be lost if both are just raised and not rebuilt? How many residents have ever noticed they even existed? What are the legal responsibilities for the Project Wide Agreement to keep/replace the feature? These and many more unanswered questions need to be answered.


We need vote to just remove or replace, the boards don’t speak for majority of villagers, but have special interest involved IMO. If majority want to pay and spend the money then rest who don’t has to suck it up. I never go to brownwood so naturally I would vote to remove and be done with it.

[Topspinmo]

Not really.

Yearly tax assessment will though.

[Topspinmo]

You can build a three bedroom house for $225,000.00, how can a windmill and water tower base cost that much?

Wood used cost more than 2 by 4s. Then, there the labor and the bid to the work, now add liability, cost of doing business and equipment it will easily in the end be close to million IMO.

[dalejiw25]

I suggest they tear down these structures and replace them with Sunbrellas. The Sun in that square can be pretty intense in the evening. Also change the hours to 6-10 and change happy hour back to 2 hrs. Including alcohol. JMHO

[Chi-Town]

Thank goodness the water wheel at LSL was spared when it needed repair.

[JMintzer]

are you kidding me? They are the ones making the money . We are the retired ones living on a fixed income. They use a shoddy company to lay in the piping under the roads in the villas and we have to pay for it. They are making money from the businesses in the squares- not only from the rents but additional money from a percentage of what they sell and we have to pay for the upkeep. They keep trying to taking parking spaces from the squares for their rental apartments and who loses out - the people who visit the squares to keep the businesses running because during snowbird season there is no parking. Movie theaters disappeared during covid because people couldn’t go and movies weren’t being made so they closed 2 of them! Their plan - to make more apartments and lose more parking on the squares. Mark my words - their plan is to close the squares so they don’t have to pay for the entertainment. They already refused to renew the contract with the police so there will be no police presence in the squares- another thing we are losing. They don’t care about the people - all they care about is lining their pockets with the green stuff

greed!!!

Isn't that always the answer? :popcorn:

[JMintzer]

How about any seating.

They have bleachers in Brownwood...

[Bilyclub]

If you look at the bottom of the water tower you can see the shoddy work done. Either they botched it during construction or a cheap fix was done. The windmill itself appears to be functioning properly so all you need is a new tower. Doesn't the District have maintenance people on their payroll or do they contract out everything?

Aermotor Windmill Company - Wind-Powered Water Pumps (https://aermotorwindmill.com/)

[rsimpson]

What is the "significance" of a water tower (that does not function?) Take it down - you won't miss it in a couple months. $225K is still a lot of money.

[Joe C.]

The tower and the windmill look "nice", but in the whole scheme of things, it's a waste of time, money and materials.
If the PWAC "owns" the tower, then they shouldn't be asked by a different entity to replace it, or pay for the replacement.

I think that someone is taking advantage, thinks of it as an opportunity, and wants some "easy money".

[dewilson58]

its going to cost us .... $225k to tear down and replace the water tower and windmill in brownwood. the wood is all rotten. just tear it down . somebodys brother inlaw is making a lot of money.

But I was promised there would ALWAYS be a water tower & windmill in Brownwood.

[zendog3]

I like the windmill and water tower. But I think someone needs to question this expenditure.

I remember when they were built. Are we going to be on the hook for a quarter of a million every 5 or 6 years? Those timbers should last longer. Also, if they need to be replaced, take bids. Don't just take someone's word for it that they cost that much.I built a 7000 ft timber frame house of timbers like those used in the water tower for about $750,000. So, when someone tells me the demolition and reconstruction of that windmill will cost $250,000, I am going to take some convincing.

[dewilson58]

I like the windmill and water tower. But I think someone needs to question this expenditure.

I remember when they were built. Are we going to be on the hook for a quarter of a million every 5 or 6 years? So, when someone tells me the demolition and reconstruction of that windmill will cost $250,000, I am going to take some convincing.

Don't fall for the click-bait...........it's estimated to cost. Quotes/bids have not been requested.

[NatureBoy]

My $0.02 since I'm going to be a Villager in a couple months so I need to get some complaining practice in:

One would expect structures like this to use pressure treated lumber and/or be made of materials that would last more than ten years. If The Developer built this as part of the decorations for the square, and then turned the maintenance over to the CDD (or whoever), I think the CDD would have a legitimate gripe that The Developer did not build them properly, in accordance with industry best practices, i.e. did a lousy job and should have known better. The dollar amount is probably not high enough to get too many lawyers involved, but it seems fair that the original builder (The Developer) should bear the burden of replacing it.

On the other hand, if there was some sort of maintenance that was required/expected to keep the structures healthy, and the CDD didn't perform that, then the fault is theirs.

Now, do _I_ want _my_ tax dollars going to replace something that is purely decorative? Not really. I'd rather see the money go into something functional - someone mentioned shading.

[JMintzer]

But I was promised there would ALWAYS be a water tower & windmill in Brownwood.

:bigbow::bigbow::bigbow:

[conman5652@aol.com]

Don’t worry be happy

[Garywt]

They're concentrating on phasing out Spanish Springs now. I don't see Brownwood going anywhere anytime soon.

Yes, more of a joke. No one knows what will happen to Spanish Springs.

[Stu from NYC]

Yes, more of a joke. No one knows what will happen to Spanish Springs.

The Developer knows all

[Marathon Man]

We need vote to just remove or replace, the boards don’t speak for majority of villagers, but have special interest involved IMO. If majority want to pay and spend the money then rest who don’t has to suck it up. I never go to brownwood so naturally I would vote to remove and be done with it.

This is exactly why we should never make decisions by popular vote. People don't like spending money unless they are directly and personally benefited. Take a ride through one of the communities that do that and see the results.

[Keefelane66]

We've been told windmills kill thousands of birds and cause cancer. Time for it to go.

[Traveling lady]

its going to cost us .... $225k to tear down and replace the water tower and windmill in brownwood. the wood is all rotten. just tear it down . somebodys brother inlaw is making a lot of money.

If this was put up by the developer’s contractor, using inferior products, the developer and the contractor should be required to replace them.

[tvbound]

If this was put up by the developer’s contractor, using inferior products, the developer and the contractor should be required to replace them.

The common denominator in a lot of things like this (premature road degradation being one), was the developer using sweetheart-deal/sole-source contractors. Since the developer was able to hand over most of the maintenance once the infrastructure was built (at highly inflated valuations), I predict a drip-by-drip of similar premature failures - in coming years.

[Topspinmo]

My $0.02 since I'm going to be a Villager in a couple months so I need to get some complaining practice in:

One would expect structures like this to use pressure treated lumber and/or be made of materials that would last more than ten years. If The Developer built this as part of the decorations for the square, and then turned the maintenance over to the CDD (or whoever), I think the CDD would have a legitimate gripe that The Developer did not build them properly, in accordance with industry best practices, i.e. did a lousy job and should have known better. The dollar amount is probably not high enough to get too many lawyers involved, but it seems fair that the original builder (The Developer) should bear the burden of replacing it.

On the other hand, if there was some sort of maintenance that was required/expected to keep the structures healthy, and the CDD didn't perform that, then the fault is theirs.

Now, do _I_ want _my_ tax dollars going to replace something that is purely decorative? Not really. I'd rather see the money go into something functional - someone mentioned shading.


You won’t be off the koolaid for at least 3 or 4 years.

[Topspinmo]

We have a multimillion dollar woodshop. Let's have those guys do all the work

Two multi-million workshops.

[Bogie Shooter]

We need vote to just remove or replace, the boards don’t speak for majority of villagers, but have special interest involved IMO. If majority want to pay and spend the money then rest who don’t has to suck it up. I never go to brownwood so naturally I would vote to remove and be done with it.

You just don’t get a vote on everything in life………

[ScottFenstermaker]

its going to cost us .... $225k to tear down and replace the water tower and windmill in brownwood. the wood is all rotten. just tear it down . somebodys brother inlaw is making a lot of money.

I believe that the Developer sold the water towel/windmill to his Brownwood Community Development District. In other words, he sold it to himself at a price and under terms and conditions that he determined. Now Villagers are responsible, through their amenity fees, to pay for replacing the rot.

I'm sure that further details will be available in The Daily Sun.

[Stu from NYC]

I believe that the Developer sold the water towel/windmill to his Brownwood Community Development District. In other words, he sold it to himself at a price and under terms and conditions that he determined. Now Villagers are responsible, through their amenity fees, to pay for replacing the rot.

I'm sure that further details will be available in The Daily Sun.

That will be as soon as they hire a living breathing editor who is allowed to do their job.

[ScottFenstermaker]

That will be as soon as they hire a living breathing editor who is allowed to do their job.

Their editor is doing his job, which is to publish exactly what the Developer tells him to. BTW, I was being sarcastic about the Daily Sun in my last post. There is no way that The Daily Sun will publish anything that reflects unfavorably upon its owner (the Developer) or upon The Villages.

[Topspinmo]

You just don’t get a vote on everything in life………

When I’m paying I should. But that would eliminate nepotism, favoritism, and brother in law….

[crilemd]

J , M and J...isn't anyone happy just being able to live here...all I hear on this listserv is Bitch, Bitch Bitch...GET OVER IT PEOPLE....NOONE IS FORCING YOU TO RESIDE HERE...we are ALL free to return to the SH some of you apparently came from...we just lease our space here until our lease runs out...enjoy what's left
CD



QUOTE=Rsenholzi;2092260]Are you kidding me? They are the ones making the money . We are the retired ones living on a fixed income. They use a shoddy company to lay in the piping under the roads in the villas and we have to pay for it. They are making money from the businesses in the squares- not only from the rents but additional money from a percentage of what they sell and we have to pay for the upkeep. They keep trying to taking parking spaces from the squares for their rental apartments and who loses out - the people who visit the squares to keep the businesses running because during snowbird season there is no parking. Movie Theaters disappeared during COVID because people couldn’t go and movies weren’t being made so they closed 2 of them! Their plan - to make more apartments and lose more parking on the squares. Mark my words - their plan is to close the squares so they don’t have to pay for the entertainment. They already refused to renew the contract with the police so there will be no police presence in the squares- another thing we are losing. They don’t care about the people - all they care about is lining their pockets with the green stuff[/QUOTE]

[HRDave]

Oh My Gawwwd people! Quit complaining. It’s like every friggin’ week there’s one more thing to bitch about.
Chill and just enjoy yourselves or flee to cheaper areas. I came for the fun environment. Not for the cheap cost of living. 😎

[JoMar]

Are you kidding me? They are the ones making the money . We are the retired ones living on a fixed income. They use a shoddy company to lay in the piping under the roads in the villas and we have to pay for it. They are making money from the businesses in the squares- not only from the rents but additional money from a percentage of what they sell and we have to pay for the upkeep. They keep trying to taking parking spaces from the squares for their rental apartments and who loses out - the people who visit the squares to keep the businesses running because during snowbird season there is no parking. Movie Theaters disappeared during COVID because people couldn’t go and movies weren’t being made so they closed 2 of them! Their plan - to make more apartments and lose more parking on the squares. Mark my words - their plan is to close the squares so they don’t have to pay for the entertainment. They already refused to renew the contract with the police so there will be no police presence in the squares- another thing we are losing. They don’t care about the people - all they care about is lining their pockets with the green stuff

Yet you stay

[Stu from NYC]

Their editor is doing his job, which is to publish exactly what the Developer tells him to. BTW, I was being sarcastic about the Daily Sun in my last post. There is no way that The Daily Sun will publish anything that reflects unfavorably upon its owner (the Developer) or upon The Villages.

Should have added the world independent to the editor's position

[Bogie Shooter]

Their editor is doing his job, which is to publish exactly what the Developer tells him to. BTW, I was being sarcastic about the Daily Sun in my last post. There is no way that The Daily Sun will publish anything that reflects unfavorably upon its owner (the Developer) or upon The Villages.

You think? You learned that since Oct…..

[Transplant]

Maybe replace with solar panels.

[Bogie Shooter]

Maybe replace with solar panels.

The editor?

[New Englander]

For someone who lived through the Big Dig in Boston, things do add up.

Of course if they just take them down the next post will be, look what else the Morse family took away from us, I can see the end of Brownwood coming…

$225,000 is not much in this day and age and things need to be maintained or replaced as needed.

I worked on the Big Dig in Boston.

[thevillages2013]

maybe we should extend happy hour , take the profits for the tower and windmill. then everyones happy.:MOJE_whot::MOJE_whot::MOJE_whot:

I’m on board with that but why not three hours ? 4-7

[Keefelane66]

I worked on the Big Dig in Boston.
Thank you it was a nightmare going to logan airport to and from using the Sumner and Callahan tunnels.

[JMintzer]

You think? You learned that since Oct…..

Join date on ToTV doesn't always correlate to when someone moved in...

Or, even if they actually live in TV...

[Bilyclub]

J , M and J...isn't anyone happy just being able to live here...all I hear on this listserv is Bitch, Bitch Bitch...GET OVER IT PEOPLE....NOONE IS FORCING YOU TO RESIDE HERE...we are ALL free to return to the SH some of you apparently came from...we just lease our space here until our lease runs out...enjoy what's left
CD



I love when a poster emerges from a long, almost 8 year sleep to tow the developers line.

[Stu from NYC]

The editor?

Could it hurt?

[Bogie Shooter]

Join date on ToTV doesn't always correlate to when someone moved in...

Or, even if they actually live in TV...

Yep, I knew that…………

[mlmarr]

wow looks like it time for some to move..relax enjoy your days left on this fine earth and living in the Villages.. a law suit would be a whole lot more then a rebuild if someone was hurt .. I can be you it will be built back better.. just like America someday.

[Stu from NYC]

wow looks like it time for some to move..relax enjoy your days left on this fine earth and living in the Villages.. a law suit would be a whole lot more then a rebuild if someone was hurt .. I can be you it will be built back better.. just like America someday.

Is it not wrong they built an inferior tower and now that it has to be replaced the builder has no responsibility?

[Luggage]

Actually your county government sends back your tax dollars every year to pay for the entertainment

[Luggage]

If they did not use the proper wood at the beginning and I certainly believe that the county and the township permitting departments should be sued as well as the original contractors engineers and architects as it was the most foolish thing not to use pressure treated and insect treated woods . Has citizens you are paying good money to the township and counties to watch over the permitting and building of amenities and structures. If they are not doing their jobs then the township should end up being sued and paid for replacing these or does anyone else have any common Sense ideas and how to get things done here. I certainly wouldn't trust the builders with my home without getting something inspected by the county and townships building departments.

[Luggage]

Do we really need a windmill and a water tower to define Brownwood or just a nice sign which would cost maybe $5 or $10,000? Who really decides these things and why are they spending our money or your money when we have inflation and so many other things to concern ourselves with? Maybe what we really need is a bronze medal windmill and water tower that will not depreciate what deprecate or rust or have termites and maybe we should spend a million dollars instead on a monument to this stupidity of not using termite treated wood? Maybe we should have the original architect engineer and builders pay for a new one instead because they saved 5 or $10,000 years ago and not use the correct proper materials?

[Luggage]

If I go to Brownwood and use its facilities and retailers, does it matter whether I live in The villages to you if I can comment on this? Whether I lived here 6 months or 20 years my concerns are just as valid as yours or someone else's. But I will say it's really really really really stupid and someone's part not to have built it out of the correct materials and it's really really stupid not to have the county and township building departments check on these things in advance. And it's really really stupid not to hold people accountable for failures like this or it would cost money to sue to get the money back or not. Because if you don't hold people accountable it will happen time and time again. Just look at the fact that they tear down 20-year-old buildings because there's no maintenance or that they use substandard material and labor and of course you millions of dollars to redo country club buildings that are sold to the community after being depreciated

[rustyp]

///

[Freehiker]

Wait and see….due to the pandemic and supply chain issues the cost will suddenly triple.

[Freehiker]

Is it not wrong they built an inferior tower and now that it has to be replaced the builder has no responsibility?

Welcome to the Villages!

[CosmicTrucker]

I honestly thought the destressed look was intentional.

[Topgun 1776]

its going to cost us .... $225k to tear down and replace the water tower and windmill in brownwood. the wood is all rotten. just tear it down . somebodys brother inlaw is making a lot of money.


This is a mere drop in the bucket of what we pay for to live in this GREAT place! Projects like this have happened and will go on forever in this huge development.

Either you adapt and stay...or you sell and go. We all made/will make that choice.

[KYtoTV2021]

The Developer is under such financial distress maybe we should all pitch in to help.

The Morse family is worth 100s of millions of dollars.......and growing.
Look at the southern growth...more and more houses -- little or no infrastructure.
Why? Money, money, money.

[Bogie Shooter]

If they did not use the proper wood at the beginning and I certainly believe that the county and the township permitting departments should be sued as well as the original contractors engineers and architects as it was the most foolish thing not to use pressure treated and insect treated woods . Has citizens you are paying good money to the township and counties to watch over the permitting and building of amenities and structures. If they are not doing their jobs then the township should end up being sued and paid for replacing these or does anyone else have any common Sense ideas and how to get things done here. I certainly wouldn't trust the builders with my home without getting something inspected by the county and townships building departments.
What townships?

[Bilyclub]

If they did not use the proper wood at the beginning and I certainly believe that the county and the township permitting departments should be sued as well as the original contractors engineers and architects as it was the most foolish thing not to use pressure treated and insect treated woods . Has citizens you are paying good money to the township and counties to watch over the permitting and building of amenities and structures. If they are not doing their jobs then the township should end up being sued and paid for replacing these or does anyone else have any common Sense ideas and how to get things done here. I certainly wouldn't trust the builders with my home without getting something inspected by the county and townships building departments.

Looks like you're not from here. Brownwood is in Wildwood . If you would have read the whole thread before posting you would have seen GoldWingNut's post: Both are owned by the Brownwood CDD (a unit of local government not a private entity - aka the developer) and are included in Exhibit A of the Project Wide Agreement as are most of the public/entertainment areas in both LSL and BW. So, under the terms of the Project Wide Agreement the maintenance will fall to the Project Wide Fund.

[dhdallas]

The whole articial cowtown motif is ridiculous anyway. The less of it, the better! Get rid of the structures.

[Bilyclub]

Let's not forget they just cleaned the cowboy for $9000.

[joelfmi]

That is why your state taxes are lower because common charges will pay for exterior structure. that is why people are complaining about what is happening in Orlando's major theme park and one of the reasons buying in an area were the state pays from your taxes for exterior replacement and repairs like roads, water main, water tower,

[dewilson58]

The Morse family is worth 100s of millions of dollars.......and growing.
.

Not even close. :clap2:

[Bilyclub]

Not even close. :clap2:



Maybe it's only millions in liquid cash.

[MartinSE]

If $225K is the actual cost to replace both structures, it sounds like a bargain to me. Decoration at a square is a useful function. What's the big deal?

Thank you. My feelings.

Go look at any other senior communities around the country, and see what "not doing maintenance" looks like. The fact that The Villages are kept in good repair and updated help our home values stay up. The Villages are attractive and that is a big part of why I moved here.

[JMintzer]

Thank you. My feelings.

Go look at any other senior communities around the country, and see what "not doing maintenance" looks like. The fact that The Villages are kept in good repair and updated help our home values stay up. The Villages are attractive and that is a big part of why I moved here.

I agree with this post... (even a blind squirrel finds an acorn once in a while... :icon_wink:)

[MartinSE]

I encourage all the chronic complainers to sell their "shoddily built" homes immediately. Since people want to move here you will make a huge profit (that evil thing the developer seeks).

Risk all your money, start your own village, and be happy. You are obviously much smarter than the developer. But you might find people will bitch and complain about your every move.

(Sorry for being so salty... I've been sick for a week)

I completely agree. I expect the only reason they stay is so they have something to bitch about. If they went anywhere else it would be perfect and they would be bored.

[dewilson58]

I completely agree. I expect the only reason they stay is so they have something to bitch about. If they went anywhere else it would be perfect and they would be bored.

AND, many do not even live here. :ohdear:

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Both are owned by the Brownwood CDD (a unit of local government not a private entity - aka the developer) and are included in Exhibit A of the Project Wide Agreement as are most of the public/entertainment areas in both LSL and BW. So, under the terms of the Project Wide Agreement the maintenance will fall to the Project Wide Fund. They are no different than many other structures and facilities in the community owned by all the CDDs that fall under the agreement, the key difference in my mind is that these are purely ornamental and have no functional need or requirement.

Knowing well the current PWF budget and having seen the proposed budget that is still being worked for next fiscal year I'm still on the fence with this "emergency?" budget item. How did they get in this condition so fast? Why are we only just now seeing the problem? How does a real windmill last decades on a farm but just 10 years in the town square? What will be lost if both are just raised and not rebuilt? How many residents have ever noticed they even existed? What are the legal responsibilities for the Project Wide Agreement to keep/replace the feature? These and many more unanswered questions need to be answered.

I would suggest that neither the windmill nor the watertower are amenities or zoning requirements. And so their removal shouldn't require replacement at all. Maybe put in a seating area with tables under a cupula and a misting device at one end. So folks can sit in an open but shaded area, watch the hustle and bustle of the squares from a safe distance, enjoy their take-out from the local restaurants, and cool off on the warmer days.

[Velvet]

Why not just tear down and not replace? They were likely used as a sales gimmick but now all the new homes around have been sold, so what is the need for them. It is like the local residents are asked to pay for advertising.

[Bilyclub]

Thank you. My feelings.

Go look at any other senior communities around the country, and see what "not doing maintenance" looks like. The fact that The Villages are kept in good repair and updated help our home values stay up. The Villages are attractive and that is a big part of why I moved here.


Maintenance that is paid for by the residents. The support posts are resting directly on the cement piers which is a major design flaw. The windmill is cool but not worth the money to rebuild.

[Bogie Shooter]

Maintenance can be tearing down the two structures and planting something there. The windmill is cool but not worth the money to rebuild.

Palms could be planted and then the whiners could bitch why they were not being trimmed.:a040:

[dewilson58]

Per CDD Website for Brownwood:

Maintenance of the infrastructure is provided through an annual assessment to commercial property owners based upon square footage of the benefitting properties.


:shrug::shrug::shrug:

[Bogie Shooter]

Per CDD Website for Brownwood:

Maintenance of the infrastructure is provided through an annual assessment to commercial property owners based upon square footage of the benefitting properties.


:shrug::shrug::shrug:

OMG, actual facts.:faint:

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Per CDD Website for Brownwood:

Maintenance of the infrastructure is provided through an annual assessment to commercial property owners based upon square footage of the benefitting properties.


:shrug::shrug::shrug:

Not sure how that addresses something that isn't maintenance. Demolition and removal of non-functional outbuildings is not "infrastructure" and isn't "maintenance."

[rustyp]

Per CDD Website for Brownwood:

Maintenance of the infrastructure is provided through an annual assessment to commercial property owners based upon square footage of the benefitting properties.


:shrug::shrug::shrug:

If this is true and as simple as stated which I am not challenging why are we concerned. It's not our money. Just like Katie Belle's. Suck it up - it's not yours to control. It's so appropriate it involves fake water again.

[MartinSE]

If this is true and as simple as stated which I am not challenging why are we concerned. It's not our money. Just like Katie Belle's. Suck it up - it's not yours to control. It's so appropriate it involves fake water again.

Well, you must be new here - you are asking "why complain"?

[MartinSE]

Per CDD Website for Brownwood:

Maintenance of the infrastructure is provided through an annual assessment to commercial property owners based upon square footage of the benefitting properties.


:shrug::shrug::shrug:

I have no idea personally, but I expect you are accurate, and I also expect this will result in another hundred posts explaining why it doesn't matter. ahem...

[rustyp]

Well, you must be new here - you are asking "why complain"?

Oh please believe me this is not my first rodeo in this town.

[dewilson58]

If this is true and as simple as stated which I am not challenging why are we concerned. It's not our money. Just like Katie Belle's. Suck it up - it's not yours to control. It's so appropriate it involves fake water again.

Here's the link for all to read:
Village Community Development Districts (https://www.districtgov.org/yourdistrict/front.aspx?district=bw)

It's my understanding the windmill provides drinking water for all residents South of 466c. :icon_wink:

[Bilyclub]

The Brownwood CDD did kick in $225,000 into the Project Wide Fund for 2021-2022. Don't know if the $65,000 for the falling down fences, and the $9000 to clean the cowboy came out of the Fund.

[DAVES]

Oh we're going to pay!
“ The Project Wide Advisory Committee will be asked to consider an emergency budget resolution to fund the demolition and restoration of the windmill and the water tower, which have no useful function and are purely decorative.


The windmill and water tower at Brownwood Paddock Square will have to be torn down and rebuilt at a cost of $225,000.
The amount of the demolition and restoration of the windmill and water tower is estimated at $225,000. The money would come from maintenance assessment fees paid by residents of The Villages living south of County Road 466.”

I am not aware of the need, the proposed work or a reasonable price for the job. Surely we could have one villager climb the structure and carry down the windmill in one hand and the water tower in the other. Taking not more than 10 minutes.

The cost of keeping this place up, is huge. Assuming they will be rebuilt as is, cost of lumber, rot resistant lumber, cost of labor, qualified labor, permits, insurance are all out of sight. Who to call who can rebuild a windmill? Replace parts etc.

[rustyp]

Both are owned by the Brownwood CDD (a unit of local government not a private entity -aka the developer) and are included in Exhibit A of the Project Wide Agreement as are most of the public/entertainment areas in both LSL and BW. So, under the terms of the Project Wide Agreement the maintenance will fall to the Project Wide Fund. They are no different than many other structures and facilities in the community owned by all the CDDs that fall under the agreement, the key difference in my mind is that these are purely ornamental and have no functional need or requirement.

Knowing well the current PWF budget and having seen the proposed budstill being worked for next fiscal year I'm still on the fence with this "emergency?"get that is budget item. How did they get in this condition so fast? Why are we only just now seeing the problem? How does a real windmill last decades on a farm but just 10 years in the town square? What will be lost if both are just raised and not rebuilt? How many residents have ever noticed they even existed? What are the legal responsibilities for the Project Wide Agreement to keep/replace the feature? These and many more unanswered questions need to be answered.

Per CDD Website for Brownwood:

Maintenance of the infrastructure is provided through an annual assessment to commercial property owners based upon square footage of the benefitting properties.


:shrug::shrug::shrug:

I'll admit sometimes my pea brain just doesn't click. If this is solely the developer's responsibility why would Goldwingnut be on the fence and publish this huge dissertation ? Got to be a reasonable explanation but at the moment beyond me. What is his role in the developers sole business ? And if this all is true why do we care ? When was the last time you heard anyone say let's take a cruise to see the Brownwood water tower and windmill ? 90% didn't know it existed until "oh no" they are taking another thing away.

[dewilson58]

If this is solely the developer's responsibility .

It's not.

[tophcfa]

Palms could be planted and then the whiners could bitch why they were not being trimmed.:a040:

Whining about whiners!

[rustyp]

Per CDD Website for Brownwood:

Maintenance of the infrastructure is provided through an annual assessment to commercial property owners based upon square footage of the benefitting properties.


:shrug::shrug::shrug:

It's not.

Help - you said "Maintenance of the infrastructure is provided through an annual assessment to commercial property owners based upon square footage of the benefitting properties." Who owns commercial property here other than the developer. Are the rec centers classified as commercial property thus the PWAC and AAC are paying into the PWF budget? If so that's our amenity fees.

[davem4616]

it was poorly designed...I've noticed the rotting wood for more than a couple of years now

It needs to be addressed

stop whining, someone could get injured

besides...it's a nice entry way to Brownwood that needs to be kept up

IMHO

[dewilson58]

Help

The developer includes the charges in the rent to the tenants.
(the developer does have space for their use, so they will be paying some)
I doubt the CDD will make a special assessment for $200k, so the funds have already been collected and assessed.

[dewilson58]

Now that being said, it's pretty difficult to draw a solid line from revenue sources to expenditures.................so I'm not shocked if we all pay for the replacements one way or another. What's it going to cost each of us???........$5 maybe. Not worth all the hot air posts.

[rustyp]

Now that being said, it's pretty difficult to draw a solid line from revenue sources to expenditures.................so I'm not shocked if we all pay for the replacements one way or another. What's it going to cost each of us???........$5 maybe. Not worth all the hot air posts.

Wow - a definite maybe the expenditure gets back to us but it doesn't matter - it's so little. OK!

[dewilson58]

Wow - a definite maybe the expenditure gets back to us but it doesn't matter - it's so little. OK!

:wave::wave:

[Topspinmo]

$5 here $100 there, it soon added up. Yes, I know I can move and probably will be in couple years…..:MOJE_whot:

[Stu from NYC]

Wow - a definite maybe the expenditure gets back to us but it doesn't matter - it's so little. OK!

How much other shoddy works gets passed thru to us to pay for replacement?

Sometimes the little things manage to become big things

[JoMar]

I don't think the entertainment square is the Developers responsibility since it is there for the enjoyment of the public therefore is the responsibility of the residents to maintain it. The infrastructure is what supports the rental properties which is what the renters contribute to. The business's also contribute to the nightly entertainment, as does the Developer. I'm happy we have a system in place that takes care of this stuff without imposing an additional assessment on the residents every time something fails. Another mountain growing from that ant hill.

[RobO178]

Both are owned by the Brownwood CDD (a unit of local government not a private entity - aka the developer) and are included in Exhibit A of the Project Wide Agreement as are most of the public/entertainment areas in both LSL and BW. So, under the terms of the Project Wide Agreement the maintenance will fall to the Project Wide Fund. They are no different than many other structures and facilities in the community owned by all the CDDs that fall under the agreement, the key difference in my mind is that these are purely ornamental and have no functional need or requirement.

Knowing well the current PWF budget and having seen the proposed budget that is still being worked for next fiscal year I'm still on the fence with this "emergency?" budget item. How did they get in this condition so fast? Why are we only just now seeing the problem? How does a real windmill last decades on a farm but just 10 years in the town square? What will be lost if both are just raised and not rebuilt? How many residents have ever noticed they even existed? What are the legal responsibilities for the Project Wide Agreement to keep/replace the feature? These and many more unanswered questions need to be answered.


My wife and I recently became residents of TV's after searching for many years for a place to retire. These structures, although not functional, were a very visible part of the reason we moved here. The decor, themes and lifestyle of TV squares cannot be found elsewhere. We took pictures of them during our initial visit to remind us what TV was all about. They're iconic and unique.

We'd vote to replace them with structures that would last decades. We'd be willing to contribute to a fund to help save them so others might enjoy what makes this place special.

PS - your Youtube channel also helped us decide on TV. Yesterday we became customers of one of your sponsors. Thanks for the work you do!

[Bilyclub]

I don't think the entertainment square is the Developers responsibility since it is there for the enjoyment of the public therefore is the responsibility of the residents to maintain it. The infrastructure is what supports the rental properties which is what the renters contribute to. The business's also contribute to the nightly entertainment, as does the Developer. I'm happy we have a system in place that takes care of this stuff without imposing an additional assessment on the residents every time something fails. Another mountain growing from that ant hill.

So if you think the residents are responsible for the maintaining the squares then they should be for residents and guests only. But then TV would lose the Sumter County contribution of $150,000 for entertainment at LSL and BPS.

[Bogie Shooter]

Whining about whiners!

Guilty.:ohdear:

[NatureBoy]

I don't think the entertainment square is the Developers responsibility since it is there for the enjoyment of the public therefore is the responsibility of the residents to maintain it.

The problem here is that The Developer built the stuff and turned it over to the residents to maintain. If TD did a bad job building it, then they should bear some level of responsibility for fixing it.

[JoMar]

So if you think the residents are responsible for the maintaining the squares then they should be for residents and guests only. But then TV would lose the Sumter County contribution of $150,000 for entertainment at LSL and BPS.

That's not what I said. But, twist it whichever way you want.

[dewilson58]

Another mountain growing from that ant hill.

Bingo

[Bilyclub]

That's not what I said. But, twist it whichever way you want.

I don't think the entertainment square is the Developers responsibility since it is there for the enjoyment of the public therefore is the responsibility of the residents to maintain it.

You said the entertainment square is the responsibility of the residents so the public can enjoy the square. No spin whatsoever.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Per CDD Website for Brownwood:

Maintenance of the infrastructure is provided through an annual assessment to commercial property owners based upon square footage of the benefitting properties.


:shrug::shrug::shrug:

Not sure how that addresses something that isn't maintenance. Demolition and removal of non-functional outbuildings is not "infrastructure" and isn't "maintenance."

Again - the decorative, non-functional windmill and the decorative, non-functional water tower are not infrastructure. And removal and replacement of these decorative additions is not "maintenance." You don't maintain something by demolishing it and building a new one. That would fall under the category of "replacement."

Not infrastructure, not maintenance. That rule doesn't apply to this situation.

[dewilson58]

Again - the decorative, non-functional windmill and the decorative, non-functional water tower are not infrastructure.

Actually they are infrastructure.

Also, landscape is part of infrastructure.

Landscape Architects design soft and hard infrastructures.
From LA site:
Landscape infrastructure is an evolutionary approach to strategizing economically and environmentally sustainable multipurpose infrastructure systems, reversing urban sprawl and regenerating our invaluable natural resources.

As the world faces an urgent need for new and repaired infrastructure systems, design and planning professionals have the crucial opportunity to reimagine networks that support multiple uses and functions. Multipurpose infrastructure conserves land, shares the financial load of its development, restores previously overlooked or damaged natural ecologies, reinforces healthy transit options, and provides public access to much needed open space.

[rustyp]

Actually they are infrastructure.

Also, landscape is part of infrastructure.

Landscape Architects design soft and hard infrastructures.
From LA site:
Landscape infrastructure is an evolutionary approach to strategizing economically and environmentally sustainable multipurpose infrastructure systems, reversing urban sprawl and regenerating our invaluable natural resources.

As the world faces an urgent need for new and repaired infrastructure systems, design and planning professionals have the crucial opportunity to reimagine networks that support multiple uses and functions. Multipurpose infrastructure conserves land, shares the financial load of its development, restores previously overlooked or damaged natural ecologies, reinforces healthy transit options, and provides public access to much needed open space.

Critical underlying infrastructure - high maintenance:

93645

[dewilson58]

Critical underlying infrastructure - high maintenance:

93645

I can hear the song. :)

Linda Henning-Betty Jo Bradley.......................the only living cast member.

[Lindsyburnsy]

Wait until Floridians have to pay for when Disney is no longer it's own governmental unit. That was a super smart move. We showed them!

[Bilyclub]

Took some pics of the problem the other day. Looks like there was a quick fix tried at one time. Somebody forgot that wood will wick moisture if not sealed.

[dewilson58]

Wait until Floridians have to pay for when Disney is no longer it's own governmental unit. That was a super smart move. We showed them!

Hopefully you are more knowledgeable than what you are stating. :ohdear:

[Boston1945]

Please let's tear it down and move on. Why is this such a huge issue? oh, wait it's going to cost $$$$ everyone in the district. Forget the rebuilding part.

[Bilyclub]

Please let's tear it down and move on. Why is this such a huge issue? oh, wait it's going to cost $$$$ everyone in the district. Forget the rebuilding part.


Just wait until the lighthouse at LSL needs to be replaced next year.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Took some pics of the problem the other day. Looks like there was a quick fix tried at one time. Somebody forgot that wood will wick moisture if not sealed.

In other words, it's an ongoing problem they knew about (if they didn't know about it, they wouldn't have known to try and fix it). They chose to apply an inefficient, or inappropriate patch, and then either chose to ignore it when it got worse, or didn't follow up to...
(what's that word again?)

(oh yeah)

MAINTAIN.

[Two Bills]

After looking at Bilyclub's pictures, I have had properly treated timber last longer in the ground, than that stuff above ground level.

[Bilyclub]

The Project Wide Advisory Committee on Monday unanimously agreed to allocate up to $20,000 for the demolition of the decorative windmill and water tower at Brownwood Paddock Square.

[Stu from NYC]

The Project Wide Advisory Committee on Monday unanimously agreed to allocate up to $20,000 for the demolition of the decorative windmill and water tower at Brownwood Paddock Square.

This was in the Sun today and shockingly did not talk about the materials used to build these. Guess the editor was told exactly what to say and not to say. Surprise.

[Bilyclub]

This was in the Sun today and shockingly did not talk about the materials used to build these. Guess the editor was told exactly what to say and not to say. Surprise.

Should be interesting when it comes to rebuilding.

[Bogie Shooter]

This was in the Sun today and shockingly did not talk about the materials used to build these. Guess the editor was told exactly what to say and not to say. Surprise.

“After 10-plus years of weather, humidity, sun and water exposure, the wooden posts on the structures have decayed, according to District Property Management.” The Villages Daily Sun, May 10, 2022

[Bilyclub]

Aeromotor sells steel towers for their windmills. Steel will last a lot longer than untreated wood,

Aermotor Windmills - Order Yours Today – Aermotor Windmill Company (https://aermotorwindmill.com/collections/windmills)

[Stu from NYC]

“After 10-plus years of weather, humidity, sun and water exposure, the wooden posts on the structures have decayed, according to District Property Management.” The Villages Daily Sun, May 10, 2022

And this is why pressure treated lumber should have been used in the first place. Whoever specified and agreed to using nontreated lumber should be held responsible.

[dewilson58]

I think we should have 150 posts on gin costing $2/bottle more than last year.

Gin will only last a month.

New mill & tower will cost $2/person and will last another 10 years.


:clap2::clap2::clap2:

[Happydaz]

A fake water tower and windmill could have been built out of better materials than untreated pine. Why not use pressure treated lumber? The same people who say Katie Belles should not become a district amenity because it would be too costly come out and support the rebuilding of fake wooden structures. Many more people could benefit from a dance club than will benefit from rebuilding these things. You mean the structures are unsound and rotten after only ten years? And now that we are paying for it we are thinking of using some kind of steel? We deserve a thorough investigation into this matter. Didn’t we already shell out a lot of money recently to replace the Brownwood sign? “Something is rotten in The Villages.”

[Stu from NYC]

I think we should have 150 posts on gin costing $2/bottle more than last year.

Gin will only last a month.

New mill & tower will cost $2/person and will last another 10 years.


:clap2::clap2::clap2:

For some things the principle is more important than the dollars and do think this is one of the times.

Gin will only last a month? Is that really true?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

This was in the Sun today and shockingly did not talk about the materials used to build these. Guess the editor was told exactly what to say and not to say. Surprise.

They blamed it on 10 years of humidity, rain, and sun.

Here's a clue that they're LYING:

Puerto Rico has more humid, rainy weather, more often, and more exposure to sun than central Florida. El Viejo San Juan has wooden doors dating back over 100 years that are still securing the buildings they're hinged to.

Does San Juan use magic doors? I'm guessing probably not.

[Stu from NYC]

They blamed it on 10 years of humidity, rain, and sun.

Here's a clue that they're LYING:

Puerto Rico has more humid, rainy weather, more often, and more exposure to sun than central Florida. El Viejo San Juan has wooden doors dating back over 100 years that are still securing the buildings they're hinged to.

Does San Juan use magic doors? I'm guessing probably not.

Well if the sun had a living, breathing editor who was allowed to report the facts we would have an entirely different newspaper. Wonder what percentage of people reading the article believed what they were saying?

[Keefelane66]

Well if the sun had a living, breathing editor who was allowed to report the facts we would have an entirely different newspaper. Wonder what percentage of people reading the article believed what they were saying?
Are you assuming anyone possibly reading the Daily Sun could be fooled? If you were to talk to my brother in-law it’s the written gospel!

[Bilyclub]

I think we should have 150 posts on gin costing $2/bottle more than last year.

Gin will only last a month.

New mill & tower will cost $2/person and will last another 10 years.


:clap2::clap2::clap2:

As long as there is good vodka, rum, and Jack I don't care about smelly gin.

[tophcfa]

The Project Wide Advisory Committee on Monday unanimously agreed to allocate up to $20,000 for the demolition of the decorative windmill and water tower at Brownwood Paddock Square.

Are you kidding me, 20 grand for the demo? I’ll do it for the cost of a Stihl two cycle gas chain saw and a case of beer and the pile of wood will be ready to toss in a bonfire in less than an hour!

[Papa_lecki]

Gin will only last a month? Is that really true?

A month, 2 weeks - what’s the difference??

[dewilson58]

Championship golf course bridges South of 466a are being replaced.
Treated wood, 10 years.
:popcorn::popcorn:

[Bogie Shooter]

Championship golf course bridges South of 466a are being replaced.
Treated wood, 10 years.
:popcorn::popcorn:

:MOJE_whot: You must be lying, just on this thread it was said treated wood lasts nearly forever.

[Stu from NYC]

A month, 2 weeks - what’s the difference??

Considering we would never come close to finishing a bottle of gin in 6 months there is no difference.

[Bilyclub]

Will they tear the structures down under the cover of darkness or do it during the day on the 19th of May ?

[Stu from NYC]

Will they tear the structures down under the cover of darkness or do it during the day on the 19th of May ?

At this point do not think it matters as they will be coming down and apparently the people that used inferior materials will get away scot free.

[Bilyclub]

Windmill top is gone.

[twoplanekid]

The following was received by me from the Village District manager Kenny Blocker ->

[dewilson58]

The following was received by me from the Village District manager Kenny Blocker ->

Thanks for tracking this down.

It's funny to read the "false" items and then go back and read all the negative nellies & their ignorant posts.

:MOJE_whot::MOJE_whot::MOJE_whot:

[Two Bills]

Championship golf course bridges South of 466a are being replaced.
Treated wood, 10 years.
:popcorn::popcorn:

Windmill and tower never had golf carts and mowers running over them 7 days a week for ten years, unlike the bridges!:icon_wink:

[dewilson58]

Windmill and tower never had golf carts and mowers running over them 7 days a week for ten years, unlike the bridges!:icon_wink:

But the mill & tower did have dogs and old people peeing on them at ground level (notice, that's where the rot is). :clap2:

[Two Bills]

But the mill & tower did have dogs and old people peeing on them at ground level (notice, that's where the rot is). :clap2:

When you Gotta-go, you Gotta-go!:icon_wink:

[Bilyclub]

I'll enter it as Exhibit #1-5 in the official record.

[Stu from NYC]

Interesting document but one question.

If heartwood is so good why is it not more commonly used for outdoor structures?

When I rebuilt an outdoor stair rail in our old home used pressure treated lumber and 25 years later it was still intact.

If heartwood is so great why did it fail so quickly?

[dewilson58]

Interesting document but one question.

If heartwood is so good why is it not more commonly used for outdoor structures?

When I rebuilt an outdoor stair rail in our old home used pressure treated lumber and 25 years later it was still intact.

If heartwood is so great why did it fail so quickly?

You need to educate yourself on treated lumber of today, not 20 years ago. It's changed.

Bonifay, Belle, Evans bridges made out of treated wood are being replaced.....same vintage as Brownwood.

[Bilyclub]

The columns that support the grandstand roofs at Brownwood are what looks to be the same kind of wood. Unless the wood is decorative and there is steel underneath.

[tophcfa]

The following was received by me from the Village District manager Kenny Blocker ->

Thanks for posting. I would encourage everyone to read the last sentence on page two that runs into the beginning of page three. What a double standard! Apparent that language applies only to property transferred by the developer to the CDD’s, and not property retained. I will site Hacienda Hills as a blatant example of this double standard.

[rustyp]

I'll enter it as Exhibit #1-5 in the official record.

Copied from the exhibit:

A portion of maintenance fees for residents in Districts 5-13, and commercial properties in Lake Sumter Landing and Brownwood Community Development District are applied to the District's Project Wide Fund
Allocation through the allocation methodology as agreed upon by all Districts that are party to the agreement. Exhibit (A) of the Project Wide Agreement outlines what is included within the purview of the Project Wide Advisory Committee aside from common areas and infrastructure, including the Brownwood Windmill and Water Tower located in the Brownwood Paddock Square.

Questions:
1 Is there a copy of exhibit A on line
2 Are the Sumter and Brownwood bandstands and drink shacks common areas per exhibit A

[Jayhawk]

They're concentrating on phasing out Spanish Springs now.

You must have a really good connection on the inside to know this. Or, are you just making it up to keep the pot stirred?

[Stu from NYC]

You need to educate yourself on treated lumber of today, not 20 years ago. It's changed.

Bonifay, Belle, Evans bridges made out of treated wood are being replaced.....same vintage as Brownwood.

Read a very interesting article on the process and the different grades of pressure treated lumber. The application will determine the grade of lumber to be used. This grade is actually on the lumber itself.

My guess is someone managed to use the wrong grade for the application either by accident or perhaps to save a few bucks.

[Jayhawk]

For some things the principle is more important than the dollars and do think this is one of the times.




For some people, the complaining is more important than the principle, and do think this is one of the times.

[MartinSE]

Wasn't there a song about this:

"you don't know what you got 'till it's gone, Tear down the tower and put up a parking lot"

[Jayhawk]

Well if the sun had a living, breathing editor who was allowed to report the facts we would have an entirely different newspaper. Wonder what percentage of people reading the article believed what they were saying?

So why do people bother reading it? Some posters probably feel like paying for it to find topics to gripe about.

I would hate to only be happy when I was miserable.

[dewilson58]

Read a very interesting article on the process and the different grades of pressure treated lumber.

My guess

"different Grades" = Splits & Knots.

"My guess" = :MOJE_whot:

[dewilson58]

Tear down the tower and put up a parking lot"

I heard they are going to install a diving platform & small pool.

Villagers can take a dive during band breaks.

:coolsmiley:

[Stu from NYC]

So why do people bother reading it? Some posters probably feel like paying for it to find topics to gripe about.

I would hate to only be happy when I was miserable.

I read it for info on what is going on entertainment wise and a few columns I enjoy. Do not have any expectations of impartiality.

[Stu from NYC]

"different Grades" = Splits & Knots.

"My guess" = :MOJE_whot:

My opinion is someone used the incorrect grade of pressure treated lumber causing it to fail prematurely. Irrelevant now.

[Topspinmo]

Both are owned by the Brownwood CDD (a unit of local government not a private entity - aka the developer) and are included in Exhibit A of the Project Wide Agreement as are most of the public/entertainment areas in both LSL and BW. So, under the terms of the Project Wide Agreement the maintenance will fall to the Project Wide Fund. They are no different than many other structures and facilities in the community owned by all the CDDs that fall under the agreement, the key difference in my mind is that these are purely ornamental and have no functional need or requirement.

Knowing well the current PWF budget and having seen the proposed budget that is still being worked for next fiscal year I'm still on the fence with this "emergency?" budget item. How did they get in this condition so fast? Why are we only just now seeing the problem? How does a real windmill last decades on a farm but just 10 years in the town square? What will be lost if both are just raised and not rebuilt? How many residents have ever noticed they even existed? What are the legal responsibilities for the Project Wide Agreement to keep/replace the feature? These and many more unanswered questions need to be answered.


Then the CDD can elect to not replace it if the own it.

[Topspinmo]

I heard they are going to install a diving platform & small pool.

Villagers can take a dive during band breaks.

:coolsmiley:


I heard you will be first to dive in before the tank filled….:)

[Topspinmo]

My opinion is someone used the incorrect grade of pressure treated lumber causing it to fail prematurely. Irrelevant now.

My opinion the didn’t use pressure treated lumber.

[Papa_lecki]

I heard they are going to install a diving platform & small pool.

Villagers can take a dive during band breaks.

:coolsmiley:

I heard it’s being built next to the new Costco.

[dewilson58]

Then the CDD can elect to not replace it if the own it.

From the CDD:
False:
The Project Wide Advisory Committee can choose to demolish and NOT replace the
Brownwood Windmill and Water Tower to save money.
True:
The Project Wide Agreement requires the Project Wide Advisory Committee to utilize the
Project Wide Fund to maintain common infrastructure to design intent standards. This means
they must maintain, repair and restore infrastructure as close as possible to the original
landscape as-builts, architect plans and other design documents.

[tophcfa]

From the CDD:
False:
The Project Wide Advisory Committee can choose to demolish and NOT replace the
Brownwood Windmill and Water Tower to save money.
True:
The Project Wide Agreement requires the Project Wide Advisory Committee to utilize the
Project Wide Fund to maintain common infrastructure to design intent standards. This means
they must maintain, repair and restore infrastructure as close as possible to the original
landscape as-builts, architect plans and other design documents.

I read that as well, but you left out other key parts of the same document stating why the features need to be replaced.

It goes on to state that they are prominent aesthetic features and are an integral part of what makes the Villages the wonderful community that our residents love. We must maintain the overall design standard, superior quality, design appeal and overall “look and feel” of our community - the very reason many of our residents came to live in the Villages in the first place and call it home.

Talk about a double standard, that logic applies to purely aesthetic features dumped on the CDD’s, but doesn’t apply to other features that have real functional value but are retained by the developer? If the logic stated in the document we’re to be applied consistently, Hacienda Hills needs to be restored to its original design standard, appeal, and overall “ look and feel”. After all, as stated in the document, that’s the very reason many of our residents came to live in the Villages in the first place and call it home! Those are their words, not mine.

[dewilson58]

but you left out other key parts



Not.

That did not add anything to my post, except it supported my post "they must replace", which was correcting your post stating, "Then the CDD can elect to not replace it if the own it."

[Stu from NYC]

My opinion the didn’t use pressure treated lumber.

My post you responded to was wrong. They did not use pressure treated lumber they used heartwood.

They should have used PTL and if so think the structures would still be intact. As usual the developer gets away with something.

[tophcfa]

which was correcting your post stating, "Then the CDD can elect to not replace it if the own it."

I never stated that? And you are correct, by cherry picking only part of the document, you were able to show that the features have to be replaced. Selectively, you choose to ignore the other part of the document which explains the reasoning and inadvertently points out the double standard between assets dumped on the CDD’s versus those retained.

[dewilson58]

I never stated that? .

100% my error.

Confused you with Topspinner.

All you Top's all look the same.

:1rotfl::1rotfl:

[dewilson58]

Selectively, you choose to ignore the other part of the document which explains the reasoning and inadvertently points out the double standard between assets dumped on the CDD’s versus those retained.

Selectively..........yep.
HHills is old news, it's a large pain to you, not to me because TOPics (see how I threw in Top) are unrelated.
Anything I state about a windmill vs. HHills will not make you happy.
So I might as well avoid beating my head against a wall.
:ho:

[davem4616]

“After 10-plus years of weather, humidity, sun and water exposure, the wooden posts on the structures have decayed, according to District Property Management.” The Villages Daily Sun, May 10, 2022

I noticed the decay at the base of the huge wooden posts a few years ago

surprised that it's taken this long to realize something needed to be done

[Jayhawk]

As usual the developer gets away with something.

Way to go, you cracked the case. They planned all along to build thousands of houses, rec centers, golf courses, etc . in order to camouflage their goal of ripping off the AAC for the decorative water tower after 10 years.

Touche'

[rustyp]

Way to go, you cracked the case. They planned all along to build thousands of houses, rec centers, golf courses, etc . in order to camouflage their goal of ripping off the AAC for the decorative water tower after 10 years.

Touche'

PWAC not the AAC - AAC has more experience dealing with the developer.

[tophcfa]

Selectively..........yep.
HHills is old news, it's a large pain to you, not to me because TOPics (see how I threw in Top) are unrelated.
Anything I state about a windmill vs. HHills will not make you happy.
So I might as well avoid beating my head against a wall.
:ho:

Actually they are kind of related, because they point out a blatant double standard. If the PWAC or AAC tears something down, they are required to replace it to preserve the overall “look and feel” of our community - the very reason many of our residents came to live in the Villages in the first place and call it home. Their words, not mine. Hacienda Hills is just an example of how the double standard is applied versus the Brownwood windmill and water tower.

[dewilson58]

Actually they are kind of related, because they point out a blatant double standard. If the PWAC or AAC tears something down, they are required to replace it to preserve the overall “look and feel” of our community - the very reason many of our residents came to live in the Villages in the first place and call it home. Their words, not mine. Hacienda Hills is just an example of how the double standard is applied versus the Brownwood windmill and water tower.

Understand your view, but disagree...............totally different.

[Keefelane66]

Since both were non functional it would fiscally responsible not to replace them. My brother in law converted his 40 year old windmill to electric and powers his barn and house with power also an electric pump in pond for irrigation.

[Stu from NYC]

Actually they are kind of related, because they point out a blatant double standard. If the PWAC or AAC tears something down, they are required to replace it to preserve the overall “look and feel” of our community - the very reason many of our residents came to live in the Villages in the first place and call it home. Their words, not mine. Hacienda Hills is just an example of how the double standard is applied versus the Brownwood windmill and water tower.

In other words one side has all the power.

[dewilson58]

In other words one side has all the power.

Yes, and that one side is called THE OWNERS.


:ohdear::ohdear:

[Topspinmo]

Yes, and that one side is called THE OWNERS.


:ohdear::ohdear:

Then, the owners CDD can elect not to rebuild it.

[Topspinmo]

100% my error.

Confused you with Topspinner.

All you Top's all look the same.

:1rotfl::1rotfl:

Have you took the leap yet…..:)

[Jayhawk]

So who actually does own the squares? If the developer why are they not responsible for maintenance?

Those 2 structures (water tower and windmill) are not on the square. No different than the kiddie play park that is near Lake Sumter Landing square.

[Bill14564]

Those 2 structures (water tower and windmill) are not on the square. No different than the kiddie play park that is near Lake Sumter Landing square.

?? Have you ever been to Brownwood Paddock Square? Those two structures most certainly were on the square. See google maps for proof.

[tophcfa]

Yes, and that one side is called THE OWNERS.


:ohdear::ohdear:

Disagree, the owners of the non functional windmill and water tower don’t appear to have the power to determine the cost effectiveness of replacing worthless aesthetic only features that seemingly only help the other party sell homes. Unless your claiming the developer defacto owns the CDD’s.

[Jayhawk]

?? Have you ever been to Brownwood Paddock Square? Those two structures most certainly were on the square. See google maps for proof.

Yep, my error I was thinking about the large water tower at the entrance. The one made from corrugated metal.

Lo Siento

The Villages, Florida, Brownwood water tower | The villages florida, Village, Florida (https://www.pinterest.com/pin/the-villages-florida-brownwood-water-tower--563372234607383878/)

[dewilson58]

Then, the owners CDD can elect not to rebuild it.

They can, but they signed a contract and they need for it to expire.

[dewilson58]

Disagree, the owners of the non functional windmill and water tower don’t appear to have the power to determine the cost effectiveness of replacing worthless aesthetic only features that seemingly only help the other party sell homes. Unless your claiming the developer defacto owns the CDD’s.

The owners do have the power, subject to the contract they signed.

Once the contract expires, then there will be no "subject to".

:ho:

[tophcfa]

The owners do have the power, subject to the contract they signed.

Once the contract expires, then there will be no "subject to".

:ho:

Agree, hopefully the CDD’s have learned from their mistakes and will never again agree to acquire assets from the developer under terms that limit the control of their ownership. Certainly, the developers legal council would never let them enter into such a fiscally irresponsible contractual agreement. Yet they expect the CDD’s to acquire assets from them under those terms. That’s the double standard I have been referring to.

[rustyp]

Agree, hopefully the CDD’s have learned from their mistakes and will never again agree to acquire assets from the developer under terms that limit the control of their ownership. Certainly, the developers legal council would never let them enter into such a fiscally irresponsible contractual agreement. Yet they expect the CDD’s to acquire assets from them under those terms. That’s the double standard I have been referring to.

History repeats itself. 2008 and $40 mil ago a maintenance problem ..........

[Bilyclub]

Agree, hopefully the CDD’s have learned from their mistakes and will never again agree to acquire assets from the developer under terms that limit the control of their ownership. Certainly, the developers legal council would never let them enter into such a fiscally irresponsible contractual agreement. Yet they expect the CDD’s to acquire assets from them under those terms. That’s the double standard I have been referring to.

The Brownwood CDD owns the square. The developer appoints the Brownwood CDD board. The fault lies in the PWAC agreement which is why CDD 7 is trying to get changes made to that contract.

[Chi-Town]

The windmill and water tower are part of the charm of the Square. Not much else in the way of a landmark. They should be rebuilt. The water wheel and steam clock in LSL would be history with the why waste the money mentality.

[twoplanekid]

Agree, hopefully the CDD’s have learned from their mistakes and will never again agree to acquire assets from the developer under terms that limit the control of their ownership. Certainly, the developers legal council would never let them enter into such a fiscally irresponsible contractual agreement. Yet they expect the CDD’s to acquire assets from them under those terms. That’s the double standard I have been referring to.

I have been a party to three purchases from the Developer for over $300 million. It is my view that it's an all or nothing vote for the CDD boards as staff negotiates the agreement with the Developer. As an example, I wanted to have NSCUDD signage on the water towers that NSCUDD owns and operates to let people know who is responsible for them. In the purchase agreement it states that nothing can be changed from the way it was purchased by NSCUDD. Now, I don't mind having the Developers logo (The Villages) on the tower but just wanted to add information someplace as to who now owns the water tower. It can't be done even though a public agency owns the towers after paying millions for it. I love most everything in the Villages but there are a few things that I question and see a need for changes.

[tophcfa]

I love most everything in the Villages but there are a few things that I question and see a need for changes.

Totally agree

[Bogie Shooter]

I have been a party to three purchases from the Developer for over $300 million. It is my view that it's an all or nothing vote for the CDD boards as staff negotiates the agreement with the Developer. As an example, I wanted to have NSCUDD signage on the water towers that NSCUDD owns and operates to let people know who is responsible for them. In the purchase agreement it states that nothing can be changed from the way it was purchased by NSCUDD. Now, I don't mind having the Developers logo (The Villages) on the tower but just wanted to add information someplace as to who now owns the water tower. It can't be done even though a public agency owns the towers after paying millions for it. I love most everything in the Villages but there are a few things that I question and see a need for changes.

Totally agree

And it’s those few things that are blabbed about on here………. ad nauseum.

[photo1902]

And it’s those few things that are blabbed about on here………. ad nauseum.

Along with the replies

[Stu from NYC]

And it’s those few things that are blabbed about on here………. ad nauseum.

So we should just behave like a herd of sheep? Sorry not going to happen.

Feel free to scroll on by responses you do not care for. Funny do not criticize you for your responses.

[Stu from NYC]

Yes, and that one side is called THE OWNERS.


:ohdear::ohdear:

The owner is not the developer. The residents of the Villages purchased all kinds of stuff from the developer under all kinds of restrictions that most of us have no idea about.

[Stu from NYC]

The Brownwood CDD owns the square. The developer appoints the Brownwood CDD board. The fault lies in the PWAC agreement which is why CDD 7 is trying to get changes made to that contract.

Unfortunately most of us have no idea why CDD7 wants to make changes. From what I know the PWAC agreement is very one sided favoring the developer.

Wish they would give out more info on this.

[tophcfa]

And it’s those few things that are blabbed about on here………. ad nauseum.

Even worse than complaining about complaining. Complaining about those who have the audacity to care enough about the community they live in to not take everything at face value and question things.

[renrod]

Why not ask Wildwood to chip in? I live on the south end and we are in Wildwood. I pay $1000 property tax to Wildwood, in addition to my taxes to the State and County. If Wildwood gets approximately $1,000 from each house plus all the new houses they should be rolling in dough. The Villages asks (??) Wildwood to annex the new building areas before the houses are started, and they gladly do it.

BTW, who is the mayor of Wildwood and what is his day job?

[Bogie Shooter]

Even worse than complaining about complaining. Complaining about those who have the audacity to care enough about the community they live in to not take everything at face value and question things.

To question is good. To put the opinion in a loop. So it can be repeated and applied to way more than one topic is just bitching on and on and usually comes around to bashing the Developer. Which in turn is really just disparaging the community.

[Stu from NYC]

To question is good. To put the opinion in a loop. So it can be repeated and applied to way more than one topic is just bitching on and on and usually comes around to bashing the Developer. Which in turn is really bashing the community.

So you think we can only complain about one topic only.

This is a great place to live but like nothing else in life nothing is perfect and nothing wrong with constructive criticism.

BTW this is a discussion board and we are allowed to make more than one posts on a topic as long as we did it in a respectful manner.

[Topspinmo]

Why not ask Wildwood to chip in? I live on the south end and we are in Wildwood. I pay $1000 property tax to Wildwood, in addition to my taxes to the State and County. If Wildwood gets approximately $1,000 from each house plus all the new houses they should be rolling in dough. The Villages asks (??) Wildwood to annex the new building areas before the houses are started, and they gladly do it.

BTW, who is the mayor of Wildwood and what is his day job?


Only 1000. I paid 3 thousand in Marion landfill.

[Topspinmo]

They can, but they signed a contract and they need for it to expire.

Tear it down and set on it till contract up.

[Bilyclub]

The following was received by me from the Village District manager Kenny Blocker ->

Did the District attach Exhibit A which they claim to list what the PWAC is responsible for?

[dewilson58]

Tear it down and set on it till contract up.

doesn't work that way.........since it's already down, if they don't replace they have a liability exposure.

[twoplanekid]

Did the District attach Exhibit A which they claim to list what the PWAC is responsible for?

The information you request was not attached but can be found here on the District website -> Village Community Development Districts (https://www.districtgov.org/committees/pwac.aspx)

Looking at the third amended and restated (https://www.districtgov.org/committees/Third%20Amended%20and%20Restated%20IGA.pdf... , it's a 20 year agreement starting ??? and states " a lot of legalize that I would have a lawyer lead me through. No mention of windmills or water towers except to state " Paddock Square" is included.

Hope this helps someone.

[Stu from NYC]

The information you request was not attached but can be found here on the District website -> Village Community Development Districts (https://www.districtgov.org/committees/pwac.aspx)

Looking at the third amended and restated (https://www.districtgov.org/committees/Third%20Amended%20and%20Restated%20IGA.pdf... , it's a 20 year agreement starting ??? and states " a lot of legalize that I would have a lawyer lead me through. No mention of windmills or water towers except to state " Paddock Square" is included.

Hope this helps someone.

I understand the agreement is up for renewal but is there a reason it should be for 20 years? A lot can happen during that time.

[tophcfa]

doesn't work that way.........since it's already down, if they don't replace they have a liability exposure.

Yet they had to tear it down to avoid potential liability exposure. A no win situation.

[Goldwingnut]

I understand the agreement is up for renewal but is there a reason it should be for 20 years? A lot can happen during that time.

The reason for the long-term agreement is that it benefits everyone. If it were short term, 3-5 years like CDD7 would want, there is no way to enter into long term agreements with suppliers and contractors for services. These long-term contracts bring with them HUGE savings for the CDDs that could not be achieved otherwise. The PWA agreement can be revised at any time with the agreement of all signatories, so even though it is a 20-year agreement it is not inflexible and can be modified.

Is the PWA perfect? Nope, there were issues with it that were being addressed as a part of the effort to establish a PWAC2. Of course this all fell apart last year. 45 district supervisors, several lawyers, and countless district staff reviewed the PWAC2 agreement, including the Sumter Landing CDD supervisors (developer's reps) and all agreed, the new agreement was an improvement for everyone, and would benefit everyone. But 3 supervisors made it fail, because of their inability to understand what the PWA was about and a hatred of the developer. Some see the cdd7 supervisors as champions of the people looking to put it to the developer, most see them as bumbling fools wasting the resident's money on an overpriced lawyer who is only telling them what they want to hear just to feed their own egos and his wallet. Of course, this has cost 7 of the other CDDs a lot of money and will likely cost them even more in the future, hence the recent actions of CDD6 against CDD7.

Most residents don't understand the PWA and its purpose and tend to believe the biased and frequently erroneous information they read on websites and social media instead of going to the meetings and finding out the facts. The water tower and windmill will be a certain topic of discussion and deliberation at the Monday PWAC meeting.

[Papa_lecki]

Most residents don't understand the PWA and its purpose and tend to believe the biased and frequently erroneous information they read on websites and social media instead of going to the meetings and finding out the facts. The water tower and windmill will be a certain topic of discussion and deliberation at the Monday PWAC meeting.

SO, not everything you read on the internet is true?

[rustyp]

The reason for the long-term agreement is that it benefits everyone. If it were short term, 3-5 years like CDD7 would want, there is no way to enter into long term agreements with suppliers and contractors for services. These long-term contracts bring with them HUGE savings for the CDDs that could not be achieved otherwise. The PWA agreement can be revised at any time with the agreement of all signatories, so even though it is a 20-year agreement it is not inflexible and can be modified.

Is the PWA perfect? Nope, there were issues with it that were being addressed as a part of the effort to establish a PWAC2. Of course this all fell apart last year. 45 district supervisors, several lawyers, and countless district staff reviewed the PWAC2 agreement, including the Sumter Landing CDD supervisors (developer's reps) and all agreed, the new agreement was an improvement for everyone, and would benefit everyone. But 3 supervisors made it fail, because of their inability to understand what the PWA was about and a hatred of the developer. Some see the cdd7 supervisors as champions of the people looking to put it to the developer, most see them as bumbling fools wasting the resident's money on an overpriced lawyer who is only telling them what they want to hear just to feed their own egos. Of course this has cost 7 of the CDDs a lot of money and will likely cost them even more in the future, hence the recent actions of CDD6 against CDD7.

Most residents don't understand the PWA and its purpose and tend to believe the biased and frequently erroneous information they read on websites and social media instead of going to the meetings and finding out the facts. The water tower and windmill will be a certain topic of discussion and deliberation at the Monday PWAC meeting.

While I understand the hesitancy from the supplier side you pointed out the flip side of the coin is why should we the residents enter into anything long term at the infancy stage when the decision makers are all appointed by the developer ?

[Jayhawk]

I understand the agreement is up for renewal but is there a reason it should be for 20 years? A lot can happen during that time.

Did you ever have a long-term mortgage, or did you avoid it because a lot can happen in that time?

[Stu from NYC]

Did you ever have a long-term mortgage, or did you avoid it because a lot can happen in that time?

I always had the option to refinance. Do the individual districts have the right to make changes? I do not think so.

[Jayhawk]

I always had the option to refinance. Do the individual districts have the right to make changes? I do not think so.

Not correct. If your income goes down, you may not qualify. If the house value drops, you may not qualify. Rates go up, or your credit score drops, you may not qualify. You are taking a gamble with a mortgage, each and every time.

[Goldwingnut]

While I understand the hesitancy from the supplier side you pointed out the flip side of the coin is why should we the residents enter into anything long term at the infancy stage when the decision makers are all appointed by the developer ?

Good question, currently only the commercial districts and CDD13 have developer appointed representatives. CDD13 landowner elected seats 1, 2, and 3 will be coming up for election in November, it is not unreasonable to assume that these 3 new seats will be held by residents of CDD13, assuming any will step forward and run for the positions. This would put the majority voice and vote in the hands of the residents.

The PWA requires unanimous agreement by all signatories for any changes to the agreement, so the other 9 resident elected supervisors on the PWAC board must also approve any decisions and changes. So, there are residents looking after the best interests of all the residents in these matters.

Entering into PWA brings with it immediate economies of scale and reduced pricing for the majority of services that the new CDDs require. This represents substantial savings to the fledgling CDDs as they start up and brings with it resident oversite of these costs. Additionally, this process reduces the overhead and administrative costs of not having to put every contract for serves out to bid for each new CDD, instead all contracts all carry the ability to amend and add on additional services at the already agreed to rates.

Some are very quick to point out that a majority of every CDDs budget funds are contributed to the Project Wide Fund under the PWA, of course it does, what is consistently ignored and not discussed by these same individuals is that the majority of the services required to be delivered by the CDDs are carried out under the PWA at significant savings to the CDDs. So yes most of your CDD's budget is used to perform most of the work, work that is carried out under the CDD.

The basics of the PWA are to maintain common infrastructures - cut the grass, trim the trees, maintain the storm water system and retention ponds, and maintain the common areas. The argument against the assessable acreage calculation ignores this simple fact and claims the commercial districts don't pay their fair share. Lake Sumter Landing has about 75 assessable acres to contribute to an even smaller number of acres to be maintained under the PWA, while CDD10 has about 1500 assessable acres and a substantially higher number and ratio of acre to be maintained under the PWA. These acres are out of the approximately 10,400 assessable acres. So yes the commercial district pay a relatively small portion of the project wide fund assessments, because they have so few acres to maintain. Should one district pay more per acre to cut the grass or trim a tree than any other? I don't think so.

The commercial district properties (tenants) pay more than 10 times the maintenance assessment per square foot that residential properties. These fees pay for not only maintaining the buildings, but also all the parking lots, cleaning the streets and parking lots of trash nightly, and many other things that directly and indirectly impact the residents. The commercial properties pay the full burden of the nightly entertainment (Sumter County stopped contributing their 50% to this about 2 years ago), this is a self-serving gesture as the goal is to bring more people to the squares and thus more customer to their businesses.

With respect to the windmill and water tower, one can only hope that prudence and good judgment in these difficult financial times will win out at Monday's PWAC meeting.

[Pairadocs]

The Developer is under such financial distress maybe we should all pitch in to help.

You mean we are not already pitching as as much and as fast as we can while trying to cope with $4.60 gasoline and $7.29 # hamburger, and utilities that are going up so fast you can't even keep track ! Yep, retirement is tough for sure.

[rustyp]

While I understand the hesitancy from the supplier side you pointed out the flip side of the coin is why should we the residents enter into anything long term at the infancy stage when the decision makers are all appointed by the developer ?

Good question, currently only the commercial districts and CDD13 have developer appointed representatives. CDD13 landowner elected seats 1, 2, and 3 will be coming up for election in November, it is not unreasonable to assume that these 3 new seats will be held by residents of CDD13, assuming any will step forward and run for the positions. This would put the majority voice and vote in the hands of the residents.

The PWA requires unanimous agreement by all signatories for any changes to the agreement, so the other 9 resident elected supervisors on the PWAC board must also approve any decisions and changes. So, there are residents looking after the best interests of all the residents in these matters.

Entering into PWA brings with it immediate economies of scale and reduced pricing for the majority of services that the new CDDs require. This represents substantial savings to the fledgling CDDs as they start up and brings with it resident oversite of these costs. Additionally, this process reduces the overhead and administrative costs of not having to put every contract for serves out to bid for each new CDD, instead all contracts all carry the ability to amend and add on additional services at the already agreed to rates.

Some are very quick to point out that a majority of every CDDs budget funds are contributed to the Project Wide Fund under the PWA, of course it does, what is consistently ignored and not discussed by these same individuals is that the majority of the services required to be delivered by the CDDs are carried out under the PWA at significant savings to the CDDs. So yes most of your CDD's budget is used to perform most of the work, work that is carried out under the CDD.

The basics of the PWA are to maintain common infrastructures - cut the grass, trim the trees, maintain the storm water system and retention ponds, and maintain the common areas. The argument against the assessable acreage calculation ignores this simple fact and claims the commercial districts don't pay their fair share. Lake Sumter Landing has about 75 assessable acres to contribute to an even smaller number of acres to be maintained under the PWA, while CDD10 has about 1500 assessable acres and a substantially higher number and ratio of acre to be maintained under the PWA. These acres are out of the approximately 10,400 assessable acres. So yes the commercial district pay a relatively small portion of the project wide fund assessments, because they have so few acres to maintain. Should one district pay more per acre to cut the grass or trim a tree than any other? I don't think so.

The commercial district properties (tenants) pay more than 10 times the maintenance assessment per square foot that residential properties. These fees pay for not only maintaining the buildings, but also all the parking lots, cleaning the streets and parking lots of trash nightly, and many other things that directly and indirectly impact the residents. The commercial properties pay the full burden of the nightly entertainment (Sumter County stopped contributing their 50% to this about 2 years ago), this is a self-serving gesture as the goal is to bring more people to the squares and thus more customer to their businesses.

With respect to the windmill and water tower, one can only hope that prudence and good judgment in these difficult financial times will win out at Monday's PWAC meeting.


Actually I was referring to PWAC resolution 13-05. This document appears to be the original template which set up obligations between the districts south of 466 and the developer. Any amendments to that resolution since then appear to be a formality to include new areas and districts under the original rule set. I attempted to find the names of the district chairs and research if they were the original representatives assigned to each district by the developer (I.E. the 7 year weaning process). The attachment is not included on the PWAC site. Thus I'm talking about the days of Janet Tutt for you old timers. Of interest also is there is no time limit mentioned in the document which I will interpret as someone did not give forethought if this original agreement really represents the will of the residents (taxation without representation). As we know from history many of the developers business partners were assigned as district reps at the beginning of each CCD. Those reps in many cases were the very suppliers that were also entering into long term agreements with TV as you mentioned why the need for stability.

[Bill14564]

...

With respect to the windmill and water tower, one can only hope that prudence and good judgment in these difficult financial times will win out at Monday's PWAC meeting.

Is the PWAC meeting this coming Monday (6/6)or is it the second Monday of the month (6/13)? The Agenda and Minutes page seems to contradict itself.