Lady Lake commissioner changes vote on SS.

[Bilyclub]

Interesting development: “I voted no at the last commission meeting because of the emotion in this place. It was a bad vote and I am not ashamed to admit it,” Freeman said at Monday’s meeting. He said the taxpayers of Lady Lake should not pay for a lawsuit that could potentially cost up to $500,000 “because of an argument with the Morse family.” He said the town, which was sued by The Villages last year, would have little to no chance of prevailing in the lawsuit.

“They have every right to build apartments,” said Freeman, a resident of Water Oak.

[dewilson58]

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

Waiting for all the "he was bot" posters.

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:


:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Stu from NYC]

Hey I can be #1.

Wonder what the cost of changing someones vote is now.

[tophcfa]

Zoning decisions rarely end with opposing parties both being happy with the results, but typically everyone involved respectfully accepts the process and lives with the decision. Unfortunately, when one party has seemingly unlimited resources and “lawyers up” to force a desired outcome, it completely discredits the whole zoning process. Anyone paying attention saw this coming! It’s very sad when the arbiter between parties disregards the process of following zoning bylaws because of the fear of crippling legal expenses. So much for a system of checks and balances?

[Babubhat]

Less lawsuits, no brainer. Spanish springs is depressing. Needs a total overhaul

[Stu from NYC]

Zoning decisions rarely end with opposing parties both being happy with the results, but typically everyone involved respectfully accepts the process and lives with the decision. Unfortunately, when one party has seemingly unlimited resources and “lawyers up” to force a desired outcome, it completely discredits the whole zoning process. Anyone paying attention saw this coming! It’s very sad when the arbiter between parties disregards the process of following zoning bylaws because of the fear of crippling legal expenses. So much for a system of checks and balances?

Sad but so true. The developer;s political power grows as this place grows so what he wants he gets.

[PugMom]

Hey I can be #1.

Wonder what the cost of changing someones vote is now.

:boom:

[rustyp]

Interesting development: “I voted no at the last commission meeting because of the emotion in this place. It was a bad vote and I am not ashamed to admit it,” Freeman said at Monday’s meeting. He said the taxpayers of Lady Lake should not pay for a lawsuit that could potentially cost up to $500,000 “because of an argument with the Morse family.” He said the town, which was sued by The Villages last year, would have little to no chance of prevailing in the lawsuit.

“They have every right to build apartments,” said Freeman, a resident of Water Oak.

I don't understand. If the developer has every right to build apartments why were they seeking a zoning variance ?

[Happydaz]

I get confused about this situation. If the developer has every right to add apartments to Spanish Springs why does he need approval from Lady Lake? If he needs approval then it seems that the current zoning regulations do not permit apartments in SS. If that is true then the developer needed to change current zoning regulations in order to add apartments. Why can’t a town vote to not change their zoning even though the developer demands it? The threat of intimidation through a lawsuit should not deter a town from voting for what they and their constituents want. Why is this person changing his vote? Why did he really change his mind?

[joldnol]

Someone got paid

[dewilson58]

I get confused about this situation.

So many questions.
You might want to do research if you really want answers.
This ain't the place.
:ho:

[Happydaz]

So many questions.
You might want to do research if you really want answers.
This ain't the place.
:ho:

This is definitely the place to do research and raise questions. You seem to post on here all the time. You appear to have a definite point of view, favoring Spanish Springs apartments, favoring rebuilding the rotten windmill and water tank in Brownwood, etc., if one didn’t know better, one might assume you work for the interests of the developer.

[dewilson58]

This is definitely the place to do research ...........

You've been here longer than I.
This is not the place for research.
This place is 90% opinion, 10% fact.

Like my first post, jus waiting for the "he was bot" posters.........you did not disappoint.

:MOJE_whot:

[Villages Kahuna]

… in this case they bought a Commissioner. In the case of Sumter County, they’re sending two commissioners to prison on a phone baloney felony charge. We might as well lay back and enjoy it.

Spanish Springs is being repurposed from a retail, dining, entertainment venue to neighborhood of rental apartments. The nearest houses being sold by the Developer are over 15 miles away. There is no need to provide entertainment that far away. Brownwood serves that purpose.The limited retail and dining base that survives won’t be able to continue to pay for the nightly entertainment.

Get used to it. The restaurants and retail that will have their parking taken away and will fail and be replaced with apartments. That’s the plan, Spanish Springs will be ‘repurposed’. The Developer will have a neat twist on what’s happening, so buy in, lay back and enjoy it! There’s nothing you can to stop it.

[Stu from NYC]

… in this case they bought a Commissioner. In the case of Sumter County, they’re sending two commissioners to prison on a phone baloney felony charge. We might as well lay back and enjoy it.

Spanish Springs is being repurposed from a retail, dining, entertainment venue to neighborhood of rental apartments. The nearest houses being sold by the Developer are over 15 miles away. There is no need to provide entertainment that far away. Brownwood serves that purpose.The limited retail and dining base that survives won’t be able to continue to pay for the nightly entertainment.

Get used to it. The restaurants and retail that will have their parking taken away and will fail and be replaced with apartments. That’s the plan, Spanish Springs will be ‘repurposed’. The Developer will have a neat twist on what’s happening, so buy in, lay back and enjoy it! There’s nothing you can to stop it.

And we can read how great this is for us in the Sun.

[Stu from NYC]

You've been here longer than I.
This is not the place for research.
This place is 90% opinion, 10% fact.

Like my first post, jus waiting for the "he was bot" posters.........you did not disappoint.

:MOJE_whot:

When you first posted you new exactly the response and to me it is warranted.

[Happydaz]

####

[Number 10 GI]

… in this case they bought a Commissioner. In the case of Sumter County, they’re sending two commissioners to prison on a phone baloney felony charge. We might as well lay back and enjoy it.

Spanish Springs is being repurposed from a retail, dining, entertainment venue to neighborhood of rental apartments. The nearest houses being sold by the Developer are over 15 miles away. There is no need to provide entertainment that far away. Brownwood serves that purpose.The limited retail and dining base that survives won’t be able to continue to pay for the nightly entertainment.

Get used to it. The restaurants and retail that will have their parking taken away and will fail and be replaced with apartments. That’s the plan, Spanish Springs will be ‘repurposed’. The Developer will have a neat twist on what’s happening, so buy in, lay back and enjoy it! There’s nothing you can to stop it.

I keep hearing this same lament about lack of parking. I drove around there just last week and there is plenty of parking. People might have to walk their lazy butts a 3 or 4 blocks but it is there, just not on the square itself. Just like the other two squares, you have to walk a little way from the parking lot.

[Bilyclub]

I keep hearing this same lament about lack of parking. I drove around there just last week and there is plenty of parking. People might have to walk their lazy butts a 3 or 4 blocks but it is there, just not on the square itself. Just like the other two squares, you have to walk a little way from the parking lot.

The developer is seeking 14 spots to be reserved for the apartment renters on Del Mar, a public street. They can reserve all they want in a parking lot.

[thelegges]

Those who voted yes will have a job next year.. those who voted No will be looking for a new line of work. SS needs help, feels little unsettling in the evening, at least for us.
The start of 7 new apartments with 14 possible occupants will not return SS back to early 2000s, but hopefully change will help, a new movement for SS

[mtdjed]

What real skin does Lady Lake have in Spanish Springs? No investment or owned assets. Perhaps they provide some services for which they are paid. The town centers such as Spanish Springs, Lake Sumter Landing, Brownwood are developer investments. The developer is in a far better place than Lady Lake to know how to manage their assets. As time goes by and stores turn more towards internet sales, existing building assets need to be recycled to new uses. Apartments might bring some new life to the area. Will the Developer make some more money? Hopefully, if it keeps the assets in good shape and vibrant.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Interesting development: “I voted no at the last commission meeting because of the emotion in this place. It was a bad vote and I am not ashamed to admit it,” Freeman said at Monday’s meeting. He said the taxpayers of Lady Lake should not pay for a lawsuit that could potentially cost up to $500,000 “because of an argument with the Morse family.” He said the town, which was sued by The Villages last year, would have little to no chance of prevailing in the lawsuit.

“They have every right to build apartments,” said Freeman, a resident of Water Oak.

Except, they don't have every "right" to build apartments. It's not zoned residential. In order to build apartments they have to get an "exception." They don't have a "right" to an exception. If they have that right, then I'm gonna exercise my "right" to set up a solar-powered pup-tent in one of the public parking spaces on Main Street, and buy a porto-potty for the space next to it for my own personal use, and run my playlist on my boombox at full blast all day long (which I can do, since there's no daytime noise ordinance).

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

What real skin does Lady Lake have in Spanish Springs? No investment or owned assets. Perhaps they provide some services for which they are paid. The town centers such as Spanish Springs, Lake Sumter Landing, Brownwood are developer investments. The developer is in a far better place than Lady Lake to know how to manage their assets. As time goes by and stores turn more towards internet sales, existing building assets need to be recycled to new uses. Apartments might bring some new life to the area. Will the Developer make some more money? Hopefully, if it keeps the assets in good shape and vibrant.

They have taxes as "real skin." Or loss thereof.

[mtdjed]

They have taxes as "real skin." Or loss thereof.

That is the problem when people think that "Taxes" are a town's skin. Taxes pay for services given. Real skin is investment. What would we think if the developer boarded up stores that remain vacant for lack of viable occupants. I think we all expect the towns to remain vibrant. Zoning laws can be changed as needs change. Perhaps the Developer is in a better position to evaluate current needs and trends than any of us.

Urban Aging is a problem especially in in a restrictive age community. When first built the people are at some given average age above 55. What interests those people changes over 10, 20, 30 years. Facilities much adapt also. We expect the Developer to accomodate us. Not likely to get much help from Lady Lake other than more embarassing icon images of old ladies, cane carrying icons on the Lady Lake roads.

[Number 10 GI]

The developer is seeking 14 spots to be reserved for the apartment renters on Del Mar, a public street. They can reserve all they want in a parking lot.

And how does that change what I said about plenty of parking off the square? If it is truly a public street then I don't believe it is legal for the developer to reserve those spaces for apartment dwellers. Which leads me to believe that the street is private property.

[Get real]

All you whiny people probably would whine about the lawsuit loss and having to pay higher taxes. Town Commissioners should avoid lawsuits that expose their constituents to financial losses.

[Stu from NYC]

All you whiny people probably would whine about the lawsuit loss and having to pay higher taxes. Town Commissioners should avoid lawsuits that expose their constituents to financial losses.

So they should roll over and let people do anything they want?

[thevillages2013]

You've been here longer than I.
This is not the place for research.
This place is 90% opinion, 10% fact.

Like my first post, jus waiting for the "he was bot" posters.........you did not disappoint.

:MOJE_whot:

On the 90% I think you spelled horse$#!t wrong

[thevillages2013]

Except, they don't have every "right" to build apartments. It's not zoned residential. In order to build apartments they have to get an "exception." They don't have a "right" to an exception. If they have that right, then I'm gonna exercise my "right" to set up a solar-powered pup-tent in one of the public parking spaces on Main Street, and buy a porto-potty for the space next to it for my own personal use, and run my playlist on my boombox at full blast all day long (which I can do, since there's no daytime noise ordinance).

What kind of tunes are we talking about on your playlist? Color me curious

[thevillages2013]

Interesting development: “I voted no at the last commission meeting because of the emotion in this place. It was a bad vote and I am not ashamed to admit it,” Freeman said at Monday’s meeting. He said the taxpayers of Lady Lake should not pay for a lawsuit that could potentially cost up to $500,000 “because of an argument with the Morse family.” He said the town, which was sued by The Villages last year, would have little to no chance of prevailing in the lawsuit.

“They have every right to build apartments,” said Freeman, a resident of Water Oak.
So that was the pivotal vote that flipped? Help us out here please / so the damn thing passed now?

[Bogie Shooter]

I keep hearing this same lament about lack of parking. I drove around there just last week and there is plenty of parking. People might have to walk their lazy butts a 3 or 4 blocks but it is there, just not on the square itself. Just like the other two squares, you have to walk a little way from the parking lot.

Yes, you are right.
BTW, what happened to the hundreds of parking spots that had been used by the former Katie Bells. We’re they torn up and planted with sod?

Sorry number 10, not asking you in particular.:)

[Topspinmo]

Interesting development: “I voted no at the last commission meeting because of the emotion in this place. It was a bad vote and I am not ashamed to admit it,” Freeman said at Monday’s meeting. He said the taxpayers of Lady Lake should not pay for a lawsuit that could potentially cost up to $500,000 “because of an argument with the Morse family.” He said the town, which was sued by The Villages last year, would have little to no chance of prevailing in the lawsuit.

“They have every right to build apartments,” said Freeman, a resident of Water Oak.

Naturally, ray Charles could seen that coming……..:)

[Topspinmo]

You've been here longer than I.
This is not the place for research.
This place is 90% opinion, 10% fact.

Like my first post, jus waiting for the "he was bot" posters.........you did not disappoint.

:MOJE_whot:


All forum’s and posters are opinions.

[ithos]

My biggest concern is that there are only 14. The more townhomes near the town squares the better. It would be great for business and tax revenue.

[Kgcetm]

You folks need to change Commissioners at the first opportunity. His decision to change his vote does not pass any smell test. Fire him.

[dewilson58]

You folks need to change Commissioners at the first opportunity.

Not enough votes, most people support progress.

[Bilyclub]

So that was the pivotal vote that flipped? Help us out here please / so the damn thing passed now?

There will be another meeting and vote in June. The vote then will probably be 3-2 in favor of the apartments.

[christine J Toft]

Zoning decisions rarely end with opposing parties both being happy with the results, but typically everyone involved respectfully accepts the process and lives with the decision. Unfortunately, when one party has seemingly unlimited resources and “lawyers up” to force a desired outcome, it completely discredits the whole zoning process. Anyone paying attention saw this coming! It’s very sad when the arbiter between parties disregards the process of following zoning bylaws because of the fear of crippling legal expenses. So much for a system of checks and balances?
Absolutely... this was inevitable.

[toeser]

Apartments might bring some new life to the area. Will the Developer make some more money? Hopefully, if it keeps the assets in good shape and vibrant.

Hardly.

[DeeCee Dubya]

Well stated.

[Windguy]

Someone got paid

Seem more like succumbing to extortion to me.

[NoMo50]

… in this case they bought a Commissioner. In the case of Sumter County, they’re sending two commissioners to prison on a phone baloney felony charge.

Just to clear the air, the felony charge is far from phony baloney. Or was "phone" baloney a pun? The charge against those two was about as simple as it gets. Both were sworn in. Both swore to tell the truth. Both lied to direct, simple questions. Lying under oath is Perjury...a felony. Neither of those former commissioners would be in their present predicament had they not made the conscious decision to lie under oath.

Now, prison? Highly unlikely. One took a deal, and will testify against the other. He will probably plead guilty to a lesser charge and quietly ride off into the sunset. The other will likely eat a felony conviction, but it is doubtful he will serve any real jail time.

[Jayhawk]

What real skin does Lady Lake have in Spanish Springs? No investment or owned assets. Perhaps they provide some services for which they are paid. The town centers such as Spanish Springs, Lake Sumter Landing, Brownwood are developer investments. The developer is in a far better place than Lady Lake to know how to manage their assets. As time goes by and stores turn more towards internet sales, existing building assets need to be recycled to new uses. Apartments might bring some new life to the area. Will the Developer make some more money? Hopefully, if it keeps the assets in good shape and vibrant.

Finally, someone makes a lucid, unbiased observation.

:BigApplause::BigApplause::BigApplause:

[Vikingjunior]

No worries, when people move into the apartments just protest outside their homes like the libs.

Isn't that how it works now, if you don't like something hold mostly peaceful protests.

[Stu from NYC]

You folks need to change Commissioners at the first opportunity. His decision to change his vote does not pass any smell test. Fire him.

It sure does not pass the smell test.

[Stu from NYC]

Not enough votes, most people support progress.

The developers idea of progress is not necessarily the same as people who live near there.

[tallmanf]

I dont have a problem with apartments what i do have a problem with is taking prime parking spaces.

[merrymini]

An area may be zoned for a particular use. When that use or business is no longer there, an entity may request a zone change because they want to use the space differently. This allows the county over sight as to how vacant spaces are used. I used to be on a planning board and, although I do not know the specific rules of this particular county, asking for a zoning change is not unusual, nor are the people making the decisions”dirty.” This application seems sensible to me, all except the one about reserving street space for parking. Perhaps this overreach is a bargaining chip on the developer's part as in, “okay, I will give up the street parking if you approve this.”

[Stu from NYC]

An area may be zoned for a particular use. When that use or business is no longer there, an entity may request a zone change because they want to use the space differently. This allows the county over sight as to how vacant spaces are used. I used to be on a planning board and, although I do not know the specific rules of this particular county, asking for a zoning change is not unusual, nor are the people making the decisions”dirty.” This application seems sensible to me, all except the one about reserving street space for parking. Perhaps this overreach is a bargaining chip on the developer's part as in, “okay, I will give up the street parking if you approve this.”

Good points but does anyone really think they will stop at 7? This is only the beginning

[Jayhawk]

Good points but does anyone really think they will stop at 7? This is only the beginning

So what? Unless you want to invest in commercial space in SS, should you (and I mean the proverbial you, not YOU personally) have a say in how someone else (The Developer, who develops) uses their capital?

Spanish Springs, like the other squares, is NOT an amenity.

The Lofts have apparently been a success and the people living there aren't causing any problems for homeowners. Businesses make decisions on products and services. That's why there is a new BJ's club just down the road from Sam's Club. DId the area really NEED a new buying club, or do choices make people's lives better?

Are 14 parking spaces really going to be the demise of Spanish Springs?

If more people supported the businesses that are there, there wouldn't be enough vacant space to build apartments.

And as someone from NYC, this can't be your first exposure to mixed-use building. Look around next time you go back north.

[Bogie Shooter]

No worries, when people move into the apartments just protest outside their homes like the libs.

Isn't that how it works now, if you don't like something hold mostly peaceful protests.

If you do this in Florida...you can be arrested. New law just this week.

[tophcfa]

I dont have a problem with apartments what i do have a problem with is taking prime parking spaces.

Agree, except that I would add I have a very big problem with giving out additional amenity rights in a mature area with already overused amenities. However, that’s not on the Lady Lake officials, that’s where the AAC seriously dropped the ball.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

That is the problem when people think that "Taxes" are a town's skin. Taxes pay for services given. Real skin is investment. What would we think if the developer boarded up stores that remain vacant for lack of viable occupants. I think we all expect the towns to remain vibrant. Zoning laws can be changed as needs change. Perhaps the Developer is in a better position to evaluate current needs and trends than any of us.

Urban Aging is a problem especially in in a restrictive age community. When first built the people are at some given average age above 55. What interests those people changes over 10, 20, 30 years. Facilities much adapt also. We expect the Developer to accomodate us. Not likely to get much help from Lady Lake other than more embarassing icon images of old ladies, cane carrying icons on the Lady Lake roads.

Taxes is absolutely a town's skin. The Square is the main attraction to this part of Lady Lake, one of the main reasons people choose to live here, as opposed to (for instance) Water Oak or Del Webb. The square also has several health care offices. If those are all boarded up, the paid entertainers will have one less place to play, the employees will have to find other jobs possibly further from home, which might convince them to simply move closer to their new jobs. There would be fewer people moving in, because there's no "anchor" to attract them to this location as opposed to any other location.

Fewer people living here, fewer businesses being here, equals fewer taxes. The Developer is already paying tax on that building, there will be no more property taxes coming from tenants renting the apartments. So the town might have 14 more residents, but 0 more taxes paid.

That's skin.

[Jayhawk]

Taxes is absolutely a town's skin. The Square is the main attraction to this part of Lady Lake, one of the main reasons people choose to live here, as opposed to (for instance) Water Oak or Del Webb. Disagree. The wholesale clubs get more visitors than SS, and people from Water Oak or Dell Webb can use them AND Spanish Springs.The square is NOT AN AMENITY for Villagers.The square also has several health care offices. If those are all boarded up, the paid entertainers will have one less place to play, the employees will have to find other jobs possibly further from home, which might convince them to simply move closer to their new jobs. There would be fewer people moving in, because there's no "anchor" to attract them to this location as opposed to any other location.

Fewer people living here, fewer businesses being here, equals fewer taxes. The Developer is already paying tax on that building, there will be no more property taxes coming from tenants renting the apartments. So the town might have 14 more residents, but 0 more taxes paid. How much in taxes will Lady Lake receive if the Developer says to hell with it, let's just tear that down to raw land?

That's skin.

That's not.

[Stu from NYC]

So what? Unless you want to invest in commercial space in SS, should you (and I mean the proverbial you, not YOU personally) have a say in how someone else (The Developer, who develops) uses their capital?

Spanish Springs, like the other squares, is NOT an amenity.

The Lofts have apparently been a success and the people living there aren't causing any problems for homeowners. Businesses make decisions on products and services. That's why there is a new BJ's club just down the road from Sam's Club. DId the area really NEED a new buying club, or do choices make people's lives better?

Are 14 parking spaces really going to be the demise of Spanish Springs?

If more people supported the businesses that are there, there wouldn't be enough vacant space to build apartments.

And as someone from NYC, this can't be your first exposure to mixed-use building. Look around next time you go back north.

7 or 14 apts is not the finale. This is just the tip of the iceberg. What would a couple of hundred apts mean for SS?

BTW our village sales rep did call the squares an amenity.

It is amazing to me that when the developer loses some thing they always manage to finesse their way around it and get what they want.

[tophcfa]

7 or 14 apts is not the finale. This is just the tip of the iceberg. What would a couple of hundred apts mean for SS?

BTW our village sales rep did call the squares an amenity.

It is amazing to me that when the developer loses some thing they always manage to finesse their way around it and get what they want.

No problems with finesse, that’s how it’s supposed to work. The problem is that when finesse doesn’t work, the next step is bullying.

[Villages Kahuna]

Because Spanish Springs is governed by Lady Lake. It is served by the LL police and fire departments and subject to LL zoning and other town regulations.

[Villages Kahuna]

Filing a criminal complaint against two new Sumter County commissioners that will probably land them in the state prison isn’t exactly a “finesse” move. That’s more brutal politics than I’ve ever seen.

[Bilyclub]

So what? Unless you want to invest in commercial space in SS, should you (and I mean the proverbial you, not YOU personally) have a say in how someone else (The Developer, who develops) uses their capital?

Spanish Springs, like the other squares, is NOT an amenity.

The Lofts have apparently been a success and the people living there aren't causing any problems for homeowners. Businesses make decisions on products and services. That's why there is a new BJ's club just down the road from Sam's Club. DId the area really NEED a new buying club, or do choices make people's lives better?

Are 14 parking spaces really going to be the demise of Spanish Springs?

If more people supported the businesses that are there, there wouldn't be enough vacant space to build apartments.

And as someone from NYC, this can't be your first exposure to mixed-use building. Look around next time you go back north.


Yes, Spanish Springs is not an amenity, but LSL and Brownwood squares are owned by a CDD and all the CDD's south of 466 pay for the maintenance like the windmill.

The Lofts of Brownwood were not that much of a success or the developer would not have cancelled plans for building the Lofts of Richmond.

14 Parking spots on the square is problematic because the streets are public. To those who say the streets are owned by the developer then why would he need permission from LL to reserve them?

[Number 10 GI]

I've posted this before and I'll do it again. Community development agencies have done a lot or research into revitalizing down towns in cities and have found that to bring life back to downtown areas you need residents living there. I saw that happen in Nashville, TN when I was working downtown. A developer built a high rise apartment building right on the edge of downtown. Prior to this the majority of businesses there were restaurants and a few small shops that catered to the office workers with a lot of boarded up buildings. After the apartment building was built and occupied, a grocery store opened just a couple block from the apartments. Other businesses opened to cater to the apartment residents. In the downtown entertainment area new businesses opened and existing ones expanded their operations. In the last 8 or so years a lot of new apartment and condo buildings have been built and prior to the covid debacle the downtown scene in Nashville was booming. Without those apartment residents downtown, Nashville would still be a ghost town after 6:00 PM. If you haven't figured it out yet, maybe apartments will revitalize and save SS.

Question for all the community development experts, what are your ideas for the improvement of SS? Please don't even mention Katie Belles, that is a dead horse that has been beaten into a bloody pulp that will not be like the Phoenix and rise from the ashes. It was a failed business plan, get over it.

The office spaces on the second floor of these buildings are setting vacant and producing no revenue yet the owner has to pay property taxes and maintenance. What successful business allows potential revenue generating property to set idle and be a drain on corporate revenue? I'll help out here for those that don't have critical thinking skills, none that are operating in the black.

[rustyp]

I've posted this before and I'll do it again. Community development agencies have done a lot or research into revitalizing down towns in cities and have found that to bring life back to downtown areas you need residents living there. I saw that happen in Nashville, TN when I was working downtown. A developer built a high rise apartment building right on the edge of downtown. Prior to this the majority of businesses there were restaurants and a few small shops that catered to the office workers with a lot of boarded up buildings. After the apartment building was built and occupied, a grocery store opened just a couple block from the apartments. Other businesses opened to cater to the apartment residents. In the downtown entertainment area new businesses opened and existing ones expanded their operations. In the last 8 or so years a lot of new apartment and condo buildings have been built and prior to the covid debacle the downtown scene in Nashville was booming. Without those apartment residents downtown, Nashville would still be a ghost town after 6:00 PM. If you haven't figured it out yet, maybe apartments will revitalize and save SS.

Question for all the community development experts, what are your ideas for the improvement of SS? Please don't even mention Katie Belles, that is a dead horse that has been beaten into a bloody pulp that will not be like the Phoenix and rise from the ashes. It was a failed business plan, get over it.

The office spaces on the second floor of these buildings are setting vacant and producing no revenue yet the owner has to pay property taxes and maintenance. What successful business allows potential revenue generating property to set idle and be a drain on corporate revenue? I'll help out here for those that don't have critical thinking skills, none that are operating in the black.

What proof is there SS downtown needs revitalization ? Let's take a good look around. Every postage stamp of vacant land around SS is being bought up and new businesses being built at breakneck speed. Highways being widened. New developments going up - literally up. Land around SS is so scarce they need to build high rises.
Another hypothesis might be the developer is charging beyond what a Mom and Pop business can afford to pay for rent and MOM and POP still be profitable. Don't forget their model is to minimize most larger corporations/franchises on their domain. No lack of people here from 5 - 9 pm. Lack of two hour happy hours, lack of hard libation for HH, Lack of good restaurants and an abundance of businesses that are not much more than novelty shops.

And the answer is - 7 apartments will save SS from doomsday.

Reviatization from what ? A self inflicted wound. - Bunch of BS.

[dewilson58]

The developers idea of progress is not necessarily the same as people who live near there.

Can't please everyone.
They are pleasing most.
:clap2::clap2:

[Stu from NYC]

I've posted this before and I'll do it again. Community development agencies have done a lot or research into revitalizing down towns in cities and have found that to bring life back to downtown areas you need residents living there. I saw that happen in Nashville, TN when I was working downtown. A developer built a high rise apartment building right on the edge of downtown. Prior to this the majority of businesses there were restaurants and a few small shops that catered to the office workers with a lot of boarded up buildings. After the apartment building was built and occupied, a grocery store opened just a couple block from the apartments. Other businesses opened to cater to the apartment residents. In the downtown entertainment area new businesses opened and existing ones expanded their operations. In the last 8 or so years a lot of new apartment and condo buildings have been built and prior to the covid debacle the downtown scene in Nashville was booming. Without those apartment residents downtown, Nashville would still be a ghost town after 6:00 PM. If you haven't figured it out yet, maybe apartments will revitalize and save SS.

Question for all the community development experts, what are your ideas for the improvement of SS? Please don't even mention Katie Belles, that is a dead horse that has been beaten into a bloody pulp that will not be like the Phoenix and rise from the ashes. It was a failed business plan, get over it.

The office spaces on the second floor of these buildings are setting vacant and producing no revenue yet the owner has to pay property taxes and maintenance. What successful business allows potential revenue generating property to set idle and be a drain on corporate revenue? I'll help out here for those that don't have critical thinking skills, none that are operating in the black.

Three is a market price for everything. When real estate is vacant for a long period of time it tells me that they are charging more than the market will pay and if they want to rent out the space should lower their asking price.

[Jayhawk]

7 or 14 apts is not the finale. This is just the tip of the iceberg. What would a couple of hundred apts mean for SS?

It would mean the businesses were unprofitable or poorly managed and ended up closing.

BTW our village sales rep did call the squares an amenity.

Probably not the first or last salesperson to mis-state something

It is amazing to me that when the developer loses some thing they always manage to finesse their way around it and get what they want.


They are good developers. Only bad business people sit on losing assets without trying something better

[dewilson58]

They are good developers. Only bad business people sit on losing assets without trying something better

The negative nellies don't care about logic.
They jus "don't like it" and have no logical reason to oppose.

Concerned about parking spaces???......pretty small minded.
This will lead to hundreds of apartments???.......the NN's will be dead by then.
We were promised??.......:1rotfl::1rotfl:

[mtdjed]

What proof is there SS downtown needs revitalization ? Let's take a good look around. Every postage stamp of vacant land around SS is being bought up and new businesses being built at breakneck speed. Highways being widened. New developments going up - literally up. Land around SS is so scarce they need to build high rises.
Another hypothesis might be the developer is charging beyond what a Mom and Pop business can afford to pay for rent and MOM and POP still be profitable. Don't forget their model is to minimize most larger corporations/franchises on their domain. No lack of people here from 5 - 9 pm. Lack of two hour happy hours, lack of hard libation for HH, Lack of good restaurants and an abundance of businesses that are not much more than novelty shops.

And the answer is - 7 apartments will save SS from doomsday.

Reviatization - BS.

Your first paragraph is about areas outside of Spanish Springs. Very little building occurring in Spanish Springs.
Your opinion and hypothesis is just that - Yours, and you are entitled to it. But the Developer is entitled to their opinion. If they choose to repurpose facilities like they did with the old sales facility (MVP, Restaurant, Car rental), good for them.
How does 7 apartments hurt anything?

[dewilson58]

How does 7 apartments hurt anything?

The sky is falling.

It's the end of the Square.

I was promised it would never happen.

:icon_wink:

[Number 10 GI]

What proof is there SS downtown needs revitalization ? Let's take a good look around. Every postage stamp of vacant land around SS is being bought up and new businesses being built at breakneck speed. Highways being widened. New developments going up - literally up. Land around SS is so scarce they need to build high rises.
Another hypothesis might be the developer is charging beyond what a Mom and Pop business can afford to pay for rent and MOM and POP still be profitable. Don't forget their model is to minimize most larger corporations/franchises on their domain. No lack of people here from 5 - 9 pm. Lack of two hour happy hours, lack of hard libation for HH, Lack of good restaurants and an abundance of businesses that are not much more than novelty shops.

And the answer is - 7 apartments will save SS from doomsday.

Reviatization from what ? A self inflicted wound. - Bunch of BS.

I never said SS was failing and needed re-vitalizing, just responding to those who claim it is failing and providing information community development experts has found to work.

Think about your statement that the developer charges too much rent. How does any successful business think that is better to lose revenue because their ego tells them the property should rent for more than the market will bear? Does that make any sense? Has the Morse family not been successful?

It probably wasn't a smart idea to build office/retain space on a second floor but even the best developers make errors. I'll go back to my experiences working in downtown Nashville. There is an area called the Arcade, a restaurant/shopping area that is roofed over for weather protection and has a second floor. Most of the space on the second floor was vacant because people didn't want to wait for the elevator or use the stairs.

As far as 14 parking spaces being taken by apartment residents, that is like a 5 gallon bucket of water taken out of one of the retention ponds. As I stated earlier there are plenty of parking spaces within a short walk of the square. Many people could benefit from the exercise.

[Bilyclub]

I never said SS was failing and needed re-vitalizing, just responding to those who claim it is failing and providing information community development experts has found to work.

Think about your statement that the developer charges too much rent. How does any successful business think that is better to lose revenue because their ego tells them the property should rent for more than the market will bear? Does that make any sense? Has the Morse family not been successful?

It probably wasn't a smart idea to build office/retain space on a second floor but even the best developers make errors. I'll go back to my experiences working in downtown Nashville. There is an area called the Arcade, a restaurant/shopping area that is roofed over for weather protection and has a second floor. Most of the space on the second floor was vacant because people didn't want to wait for the elevator or use the stairs.

As far as 14 parking spaces being taken by apartment residents, that is like a 5 gallon bucket of water taken out of one of the retention ponds. As I stated earlier there are plenty of parking spaces within a short walk of the square. Many people could benefit from the exercise.

14 parking spots on a public street located next to the square. That is a big difference.

[rustyp]

I never said SS was failing and needed re-vitalizing, just responding to those who claim it is failing and providing information community development experts has found to work.

Think about your statement that the developer charges too much rent. How does any successful business think that is better to lose revenue because their ego tells them the property should rent for more than the market will bear? Does that make any sense? Has the Morse family not been successful?

It probably wasn't a smart idea to build office/retain space on a second floor but even the best developers make errors. I'll go back to my experiences working in downtown Nashville. There is an area called the Arcade, a restaurant/shopping area that is roofed over for weather protection and has a second floor. Most of the space on the second floor was vacant because people didn't want to wait for the elevator or use the stairs.

As far as 14 parking spaces being taken by apartment residents, that is like a 5 gallon bucket of water taken out of one of the retention ponds. As I stated earlier there are plenty of parking spaces within a short walk of the square. Many people could benefit from the exercise.

Never once have I seen a statement from the developers that they were operating SS in the red. The only source I've heard that statement from is the sheeples who for the most part are still in the new home honeymoon period (and just for grins never stepped foot into the original Katie Belle's - Harold's flagship and his mother's namesake). Before you jump to the next comeback what I did not say is "the developers don't have a right to go onto other ventures that will produce higher profit margins". However those ventures are limited to being within the law which includes zoning. I have no issue with the developer requesting "legally" a variance. The declaration of it's their property and they can do as they wish is a total misnomer and neither can anyone of us do as we wish with our properties. I am not saying bibery, blackmail, backroom deals are taking place but something smells fishy to me about the sequence of events that have unfolded.

All I ask is for my representatives (public and private) to stop telling me the yellow liquid on my sneakers is simply a little bit of rain. I really don't care if the developer puts up 7 apartments. Just stop feeding me BS.

[Stu from NYC]

Never once have I seen a statement from the developers that they were operating SS in the red. The only source I've heard that statement from is the sheeples who for the most part are still in the new home honeymoon period (and just for grins never stepped foot into the original Katie Belle's - Harold's flagship and his mother's namesake). Before you jump to the next comeback what I did not say is "the developers don't have a right to go onto other ventures that will produce higher profit margins". However those ventures are limited to being within the law which includes zoning. I have no issue with the developer requesting "legally" a variance. The declaration of it's their property and they can do as they wish is a total misnomer and neither can anyone of us do as we wish with our properties. I am not saying bibery, blackmail, backroom deals are taking place but something smells fishy to me about the sequence of events that have unfolded.

What the developer wants the developer finds a way to get.

[rustyp]

///

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Someone asked what we think should happen, to "revitalize" Spanish Springs Town Square.

As the newish resident living in the oldest section of the Villages, who's lived in metropolitan areas, the suburbs of New England, and been to every contiguous state in the country, in urban, rural, suburban, and mountainous regions, who has worked for a town engineer and worked on zoning restrictions and issued zoning permits, this is what I think should be done:

(The same as what I proposed previously but here it is again):

The MVP gym moved to the Rialto theatre, with shops in the front of it dedicated to fresh, healthy food options - salads, simple sandwiches made with home-made breads and organic ingredients, plenty of raw foods that don't require cooking, a few comfort dessert options (such as fresh apple pie, or assorted tortes or strawberry topped shortbread, for example). Another shop within the Rialto-converted-MVP building could cater to exercise clothing and accessories - leggings, gym tops and shorts, yoga mats and yoga shoes, fitbits, etc.

Then take the MVP building and turn it into either condos or apartments, or a mixture of both, with amenities taking up the entire first floor. A small pool can be built where the circular drive currently is, out back, and the pool and first-floor amenities can then be considered a Town Square Rec Center. The parking area behind that building could be gated, so that residents have assigned parking off the street and away from easy access to theft.

Once that building has been renovated and vacancies filled, THEN add that 7 apartments over the old Katie Belle's building. And behind that building, section off an area for assigned resident parking, and build a modest-sized carport for resident golf carts. They can have access to the amenities in the MVP building as well.

[dewilson58]

This thread gets funnier and funnier.

[JSR22]

This thread gets funnier and funnier.

I agree. Writing a business plan for the developer! LOL

[dewilson58]

I agree. Writing a business plan for the developer! LOL

Writing a business plan with no business experience. :1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Nick B]

If you do this in Florida...you can be arrested. New law just this week.
A whole bunch of new laws in this Free state.

[JSR22]

Writing a business plan with no business experience. :1rotfl::1rotfl:

I am trying very hard to get my jaw off the floor.

[Jayhawk]

Someone asked what we think should happen, to "revitalize" Spanish Springs Town Square.

As the newish resident living in the oldest section of the Villages, who's lived in metropolitan areas, the suburbs of New England, and been to every contiguous state in the country, in urban, rural, suburban, and mountainous regions, who has worked for a town engineer and worked on zoning restrictions and issued zoning permits, this is what I think should be done:

(The same as what I proposed previously but here it is again):

The MVP gym moved to the Rialto theatre, with shops in the front of it dedicated to fresh, healthy food options - salads, simple sandwiches made with home-made breads and organic ingredients, plenty of raw foods that don't require cooking, a few comfort dessert options (such as fresh apple pie, or assorted tortes or strawberry topped shortbread, for example). Another shop within the Rialto-converted-MVP building could cater to exercise clothing and accessories - leggings, gym tops and shorts, yoga mats and yoga shoes, fitbits, etc.

Then take the MVP building and turn it into either condos or apartments, or a mixture of both, with amenities taking up the entire first floor. A small pool can be built where the circular drive currently is, out back, and the pool and first-floor amenities can then be considered a Town Square Rec Center. The parking area behind that building could be gated, so that residents have assigned parking off the street and away from easy access to theft.

Once that building has been renovated and vacancies filled, THEN add that 7 apartments over the old Katie Belle's building. And behind that building, section off an area for assigned resident parking, and build a modest-sized carport for resident golf carts. They can have access to the amenities in the MVP building as well.

WOW. How much is all of this going to cost you? I assume this is your idea to spend your own dough (for the special bread) to put this plan in motion? At a minimum, you should contact The Villages management and demand a consulting fee. Go Get 'em.

:ohdear:

[rustyp]

Someone asked what we think should happen, to "revitalize" Spanish Springs Town Square.

As the newish resident living in the oldest section of the Villages, who's lived in metropolitan areas, the suburbs of New England, and been to every contiguous state in the country, in urban, rural, suburban, and mountainous regions, who has worked for a town engineer and worked on zoning restrictions and issued zoning permits, this is what I think should be done:

(The same as what I proposed previously but here it is again):

The MVP gym moved to the Rialto theatre, with shops in the front of it dedicated to fresh, healthy food options - salads, simple sandwiches made with home-made breads and organic ingredients, plenty of raw foods that don't require cooking, a few comfort dessert options (such as fresh apple pie, or assorted tortes or strawberry topped shortbread, for example). Another shop within the Rialto-converted-MVP building could cater to exercise clothing and accessories - leggings, gym tops and shorts, yoga mats and yoga shoes, fitbits, etc.

Then take the MVP building and turn it into either condos or apartments, or a mixture of both, with amenities taking up the entire first floor. A small pool can be built where the circular drive currently is, out back, and the pool and first-floor amenities can then be considered a Town Square Rec Center. The parking area behind that building could be gated, so that residents have assigned parking off the street and away from easy access to theft.

Once that building has been renovated and vacancies filled, THEN add that 7 apartments over the old Katie Belle's building. And behind that building, section off an area for assigned resident parking, and build a modest-sized carport for resident golf carts. They can have access to the amenities in the MVP building as well.

OH OH I wanna piggyback:
- Add a lazy river for all residents on the 1st floor of the La Raina apartment complex
- Put Katie Belle's back downstairs where it was
- Make upstairs of the new KB's a brothel (the developer can do whatever they want with their property) - highly profitable business. To compensate the old priority golfers for their recent loss offer discounts rates to the new "enhanced members".

[dewilson58]

- Make upstairs of the new KB's a brothel .

Hopefully not resident talent.

[mtdjed]

Three is a market price for everything. When real estate is vacant for a long period of time it tells me that they are charging more than the market will pay and if they want to rent out the space should lower their asking price.

But sometimes the market disappears, Consider Bass and Van Huesen in Lake Sumter Landing. They are getting out of Brick and Mortar.

[Babubhat]

Start with a bulldozer. Nothing worth saving

[Stu from NYC]

But sometimes the market disappears, Consider Bass and Van Huesen in Lake Sumter Landing. They are getting out of Brick and Mortar.

For sure but at the right price you can find replacements.

[tvbound]

Hey I can be #1.

Wonder what the cost of changing someones vote is now.

It would definitely have been interesting to have been a fly on the wall, when the commissioner had his mind changed - from whom and with what.

[RUCdaze]

Just remember the name FREEMAN the next time he comes up for re-election. One bad vote deserves another.

[DonnaNi4os]

I certainly hope that you are wrong. It was on a historic tour that I found my new home almost 4 1/2 years ago. Removing a square that is convenient and assessable by those of us in the northern sections of TV would truly be disappointing. It would make the founding father roll over in his grave. May the powers that be remember the man that founded this piece of paradise and continue to honor his vision and the promises made when we purchased our homes. Adding a new square to the southern section should not be reason to take one away.

[dewilson58]

I certainly hope that you are wrong. It was on a historic tour that I found my new home almost 4 1/2 years ago. Removing a square that is convenient and assessable by those of us in the northern sections of TV would truly be disappointing. It would make the founding father roll over in his grave. May the powers that be remember the man that founded this piece of paradise and continue to honor his vision and the promises made when we purchased our homes. Adding a new square to the southern section should not be reason to take one away.

Congratulations!!!.................The craziest post of the month. :MOJE_whot::MOJE_whot:

Removing the square??? :1rotfl::1rotfl:

"the man that founded this piece of paradise and continue to honor his vision and the promises made when we purchased our homes".......bot your house 4.5 years ago, Harold has been dead 20 years. How did he promise you?? :1rotfl::1rotfl:

"It would make the founding father roll over in his grave".........:1rotfl::1rotfl: How do you know???

Congratulations on the award. :MOJE_whot::MOJE_whot:

[Stu from NYC]

Just remember the name FREEMAN the next time he comes up for re-election. One bad vote deserves another.

Very true

[Bogie Shooter]

Yes, vote’m . That worked a few years ago when two crooks were voted into the county commissioners.

[Stu from NYC]

Yes, vote’m . That worked a few years ago when two crooks were voted into the county commissioners.

Did I miss the part where they received a guilty verdict? Wonder how much it cost the developer to investigate the three of them to dig up dirt and than figure out a way to take them out?

[Bogie Shooter]

Did I miss the part where they received a guilty verdict? Wonder how much it cost the developer to investigate the three of them to dig up dirt and than figure out a way to take them out?

Fall back on the old “ whataboutism”. :sigh:

BTW, cutting a deal is same as pleading guilty.

[Bogie Shooter]

//////

[jmaccallum]

I’m getting pretty sick and tired of hearing about the supposed woes of Spanish Springs. It’s a great Town Square! Look at what we got - a combination of nice shops and restaurants - so support it! Yeah, it ain’t Sumter and it ain’t Brownwood, but it’s ours! Down south, the average age is younger and they engage. Up here north, y’all are sounding like a bunch of grumpy old people! Katie Belle’s failed and it’s gone. Get over it! Seven apartments don’t amount to diddley-doo! 14 people living above the Square. So what? 7 parking spaces lost, that y’all never used anyway, cos most of you don’t come out and support the establishments we have. You just complain!

Brownwood is packed and over crowded now as the south people have no where else to go until Sawgrass opens. We got a unique situation up here as we’re too far to travel for them. We have a great Town Square in Spanish Springs! You’ve no idea how good we got it. So get your heads out of your butts, support the businesses and events in the Square, and enjoy it!

[Stu from NYC]

Fall back on the old “ whataboutism”. :sigh:

BTW, cutting a deal is same as pleading guilty.

One guy ok the other has not had his trial.

BTW if one of the developers puppets was caught in a similar criminal act do you think he would have been removed from office before the trial?

[thevillages2013]

Someone asked what we think should happen, to "revitalize" Spanish Springs Town Square.

As the newish resident living in the oldest section of the Villages, who's lived in metropolitan areas, the suburbs of New England, and been to every contiguous state in the country, in urban, rural, suburban, and mountainous regions, who has worked for a town engineer and worked on zoning restrictions and issued zoning permits, this is what I think should be done:

(The same as what I proposed previously but here it is again):

The MVP gym moved to the Rialto theatre, with shops in the front of it dedicated to fresh, healthy food options - salads, simple sandwiches made with home-made breads and organic ingredients, plenty of raw foods that don't require cooking, a few comfort dessert options (such as fresh apple pie, or assorted tortes or strawberry topped shortbread, for example). Another shop within the Rialto-converted-MVP building could cater to exercise clothing and accessories - leggings, gym tops and shorts, yoga mats and yoga shoes, fitbits, etc.

Then take the MVP building and turn it into either condos or apartments, or a mixture of both, with amenities taking up the entire first floor. A small pool can be built where the circular drive currently is, out back, and the pool and first-floor amenities can then be considered a Town Square Rec Center. The parking area behind that building could be gated, so that residents have assigned parking off the street and away from easy access to theft.

Once that building has been renovated and vacancies filled, THEN add that 7 apartments over the old Katie Belle's building. And behind that building, section off an area for assigned resident parking, and build a modest-sized carport for resident golf carts. They can have access to the amenities in the MVP building as well.

Where is the cannabis dispensary going to be located?

[Stu from NYC]

Where is the cannabis dispensary going to be located?

NE side of 33rd and 3rd.:pray:

[tophcfa]

Dam, it’s just amazing how threads that are controversial can evolve into an absolutely s#i ! show. And just like politics, wack jobs dug in on either side all make absolutely no logical sense.

[michstrito]

Well, this is my first post after living here for almost a year and I suppose probably my last because of what I’m about to say. This whiny commissioner is changing his vote? He got all carried away with the emotional nature of the meeting? Now he realizes the error of his ways and he’s not ashamed? How about he grows a spine and stands his ground? What does falling on the floor and assuming the fetal position because of the threat of a lawsuit say about representative government? The residents, by a clear majority, do not want the apartments. We know it means the end of the square and we’re willing to take on the developer to try and stop it. Do your job Freeman. Vote the way your constituents want you to.

[Jayhawk]

The residents, by a clear majority, do not want the apartments. We know it means the end of the square and we’re willing to take on the developer to try and stop it.

If by clear majority you mean the 50 or 60 out of 130,000 residents who came to the meeting, and maybe 10-15 hardliners on this forum, I think you are overestimating the definition of majority.

How do you "know it means the end" of the square? Seven apartments or some empty commercial spaces on the 2nd floor. Now which one will really "kill the squares"? Answer - Neither.

[michstrito]

The skin is called representative government. I went to the meeting at town hall. It was an overflow crowd. The residents are against the apartments by a clear majority. The commissioners should vote the way their constituents want.

[michstrito]

Seven? Seriously? Think fourty five, with two parking spaces for each resident. Think no music because town ordinances only allow certain decibel levels near residential areas.

[michstrito]

You’re right. Seven apts don’t amount to much. But think foot in the door. It’s just the beginning. All the space above the restaurants and shops are empty. The theatre, which was supposed to be refurbished, has been dormant for some time now. Why do you think that is. One resident at the town meeting said that there are plans for 45 apts which would mean the end of the square. Look, the developer should have been at that meeting to discuss plans and answer questions. They couldn’t be bothered. A real lack of respect to the overflow crowd of residents who showed up.

[Jayhawk]

The residents are against the apartments by a clear majority. The commissioners should vote the way their constituents want.

If this were true, there would have been about 20,000 residents there. Not 60.

[michstrito]

14 spaces probably not a problem. But how about 90? Why is all the space above the shops and restaurants empty? Why has the theatre not been refurbished as they claimed? Why did the developer not send a representative to the town meeting on May 2nd to discuss plans and answer questions from an overflow crowd of residents? Aside from the fact that it was extremely disrespectful, it does seem they have something to hide.

[michstrito]

So, per the mayor, a majority of residents in Lady Lake are against the apts. Seven apts are a foot in the door. Think 45. Think 90 parking spaces. Think no more music because of town codes regarding decibel levels near residential areas.

[tophcfa]

14 spaces probably not a problem. But how about 90? Why is all the space above the shops and restaurants empty? Why has the theatre not been refurbished as they claimed? Why did the developer not send a representative to the town meeting on May 2nd to discuss plans and answer questions from an overflow crowd of residents? Aside from the fact that it was extremely disrespectful, it does seem they have something to hide.

Don’t wast your time arguing with Ralph Kramden. POW, to the moon Alice, will be the best response you get. Not sending a representative is in itself sending a very strong message. Good news travels fast, bad news gets buried. A blatant lack of transparency actually sends a very strong and clear message : (

[donassaid]

The law suit is a red herring. A Developer cannot sue to force a local governing body to change a commercial zoning into a residential zoning just to please the Developer. Just because they own the property is irrelevant. That's why there are zoning laws.

[dewilson58]

A Developer cannot sue to force a local governing body to change ..............

False.

Actually you can sue.

[oldtimes]

So, per the mayor, a majority of residents in Lady Lake are against the apts. Seven apts are a foot in the door. Think 45. Think 90 parking spaces. Think no more music because of town codes regarding decibel levels near residential areas.

The majority never knew Harold Schwartz
The majority has never been to Katie Belles
The majority don’t even go to SS unless there is an event
A few hundred people is by no means a majority

[Bogie Shooter]

One guy ok the other has not had his trial.

BTW if one of the developers puppets was caught in a similar criminal act do you think he would have been removed from office before the trial?

There you go again………

On another note you never answered the question which village you live in.

[Stu from NYC]

There you go again………

On another note you never answered the question which village you live in.

So you are entitled to your opinion and I am not. Good to know.

We are near Lake Sumter. Not sure why you care so much which village we live in. You going to bring us cookies?

[Bogie Shooter]

So you are entitled to your opinion and I am not. Good to know.

We are near Lake Sumter. Not sure why you care so much which village we live in. You going to bring us cookies?

Just wondering why you post so much bashing the new areas. So, you really don’t have a dog in that fight!

[Lottoguy]

This is what rich people do to get there way! Should be a law to stop such nonsense!

[tophcfa]

The law suit is a red herring. A Developer cannot sue to force a local governing body to change a commercial zoning into a residential zoning just to please the Developer. Just because they own the property is irrelevant. That's why there are zoning laws.

They can’t legally force a change of mind, but they can challenge the legality of their decision and attempt to have the courts overturn it based on interpretation of the zoning laws. More importantly, they can turn it into a war of financial attrition and force the other party to roll over.

[dewilson58]

This is what rich people do to get there way! Should be a law to stop such nonsense!

Oh

Oh

Let me play.

This is what old people do when they have a sad life.

:1rotfl::1rotfl:

[dewilson58]

They can’t legally force a change of mind, but they can challenge the legality of their decision and attempt to have the courts overturn it based on interpretation of the zoning laws. More importantly, they can turn it into a war of financial attrition and force the other party to roll over.

Truth.

[Bilyclub]

The majority never knew Harold Schwartz
The majority has never been to Katie Belles
The majority don’t even go to SS unless there is an event
A few hundred people is by no means a majority


A couple dozen people were able to bamboozle the PWAC into spending what will probably be a million when it's done, on a 1/2 mile walking trail

[tophcfa]

A couple dozen people were able to bamboozle the PWAC into spending what will probably be a million when it's done, on a 1/2 mile walking trail

And the developer bamboozled the AAC into granting approximately an additional 150 amenity rights to apartment dwellers in an area with already overcrowded amenities, with no new additional amenities in return.

[PugMom]

I’m getting pretty sick and tired of hearing about the supposed woes of Spanish Springs. It’s a great Town Square! Look at what we got - a combination of nice shops and restaurants - so support it! Yeah, it ain’t Sumter and it ain’t Brownwood, but it’s ours! Down south, the average age is younger and they engage. Up here north, y’all are sounding like a bunch of grumpy old people! Katie Belle’s failed and it’s gone. Get over it! Seven apartments don’t amount to diddley-doo! 14 people living above the Square. So what? 7 parking spaces lost, that y’all never used anyway, cos most of you don’t come out and support the establishments we have. You just complain!

Brownwood is packed and over crowded now as the south people have no where else to go until Sawgrass opens. We got a unique situation up here as we’re too far to travel for them. We have a great Town Square in Spanish Springs! You’ve no idea how good we got it. So get your heads out of your butts, support the businesses and events in the Square, and enjoy it!

wow! a voice of reason!!! :coolsmiley:

[Bilyclub]

wow! a voice of reason!!! :coolsmiley:

Up here north, y’all are sounding like a bunch of grumpy old people! Katie Belle’s failed and it’s gone. Get over it! Seven apartments don’t amount to diddley-doo! 14 people living above the Square. So what? 7 parking spaces lost, that y’all never used anyway, cos most of you don’t come out and support the establishments we have. You just complain!


Voice of reason changing the facts. A complainer about complainers. Y'all need to get the facts straight. It's 14 parking spots on the square, on a public street. Y'all don't think those spots are used all lot, right. That's a fact, Jack.

[Stu from NYC]

Voice of reason changing the facts. A complainer about complainers. Y'all need to get the facts straight. It's 14 parking spots on the square, on a public street. Y'all don't think those spots are used all lot, right. That's a fact, Jack.

Do you really think that all they will want to put in is 7 apartments? If so would you like to buy a very nice hardly used bridge we have for sale?

[dewilson58]

Do you really think that all they will want to put in is 7 apartments? If so would you like to buy a very nice hardly used bridge we have for sale?

That's all they want now.

Why worry and cry about what MIGHT happen?........you will never be happy.

[Stu from NYC]

That's all they want now.

Why worry and cry about what MIGHT happen?........you will never be happy.

Simple logic tells me they want to be able to put in as many apartments as they can make money on. Is this in the best interests of the people who want to take advantage of the squares? I dont think so.

Last I looked though was not a sheep.

[Topspinmo]

Those who voted yes will have a job next year.. those who voted No will be looking for a new line of work. SS needs help, feels little unsettling in the evening, at least for us.
The start of 7 new apartments with 14 possible occupants will not return SS back to early 2000s, but hopefully change will help, a new movement for SS

Only thing IMO apartments going to do make empty building useful. And there plenty of empty building around squares.

[Bilyclub]

Do you really think that all they will want to put in is 7 apartments? If so would you like to buy a very nice hardly used bridge we have for sale?


It's their buildings so I don't care as long as they don't get public property for their parking spots.

[dewilson58]

Simple logic tells me they want to be able to put in as many apartments as they can make money on. Is this in the best interests of the people who want to take advantage of the squares? I dont think so.

The Lofts were a great addition for the merchants in BW.
Apartments 7 or 70 will be a great addition for the merchants.
Having healthy merchants are great for users of the Squares.
The current users of SS are not spending dollars.
All you have to do is go there.....................places are empty, no dollars are exchanging hands.

Simple Logic is dangerous when it is not tempered by humility, foresight, vision, empathy and compassion.

[Topspinmo]

Do you really think that all they will want to put in is 7 apartments? If so would you like to buy a very nice hardly used bridge we have for sale?

Personally I don’t care what developers do with there commercial property, it their property. But, I think it stinks when they go into district they sold out to decades ago and add housing.

Excuse me but they developed sold and moved on. IMO district 4 good example nearly 9000 residents built out 20 plus years ago, the District 4 supervisor’s allow’s 300 plus more.

Again, district 4 getting stuck with development problems with high dollar price tag. Not only did we have to suck up the lopez sinkhole feasco now add souliere to million dollar price tag. And no I don’t think a contractor can fix that problem estimate quoted.

[oldtimes]

Personally I don’t care what developers do with there commercial property, it their property. But, I think it stinks when they go into district they sold out to decades ago and add housing.

Excuse me but they developed sold and moved on. IMO district 4 good example nearly 9000 residents built out 20 plus years ago, the District 4 supervisor’s allow’s 300 plus more.

Again, district 4 getting stuck with development problems with high dollar price tag. Not only did we have to suck up the lopez sinkhole feasco now add souliere to million dollar price tag. And no I don’t think a contractor can fix that problem estimate quoted.

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