Another mass shooting g

[jebartle]

19 innocent children, 2 dedicated teachers, lives lost, solution????? More guns, bigger prisons, NOT. Japan, no guns unless police and military, murder rate .3 percent per 100,000, America, 4.7 per 100,000. Mental health wake up call.

[Two Bills]

Prayers, platitudes, lots of flowers, plenty of photo ops. at the vigils, (cry please) and most of all, empty promises.
Same old faces spouting the same entrenched opinions.
Sells papers, and keeps the talking heads employed.
Nothing will change.
Here's to the next time! :ohdear:

[dewilson58]

Japan, no guns unless police and military,

Almost correct.

Hunters in Japan can have guns.

The low murder rate is culture driven, not gun control driven.

[MrFlorida]

Maybe we should not let our children play violent video games that gives them the idea that it's ok to kill people ?

[dewilson58]

Maybe we should not let our children play violent video games that gives them the idea that it's ok to kill people ?

:popcorn::popcorn:

[ThirdOfFive]

19 innocent children, 2 dedicated teachers, lives lost, solution????? More guns, bigger prisons, NOT. Japan, no guns unless police and military, murder rate .3 percent per 100,000, America, 4.7 per 100,000. Mental health wake up call.
There was a study done a few years back regarding incidents such as this. I don't recall the methodology used but the conclusion was that well over HALF of such crimes are "copycat". And with the endless and exhaustive "coverage", which often tends toward the maudlin or even the hysterical, it is easy to see how it could influence some person not all that solid mentally, to try to imitate it or even do it one (or more) better.

There is another effect of such coverage, one that has been proven innumerable times. Every such incident is accompanied by an endless parade of officials calling for increased gun control. They, too, tend toward the maudlin or the hysterical. But the EFFECT is that such overdramatization is a direct cause of vastly increased gun sales. In 2021 alone, something like 43 MILLION new guns were sold to private citizens in America.

Maybe its time for a little common sense. Hysteria just doesn't seem to work all that well.

[Taltarzac725]

Successful lawsuits against gun manufacturers might get some changes like those the tobacco companies underwent decades ago.

[tophcfa]

Guns have been around forever, but mass shootings are up during recent years. What’s different than before, social media and violent video games that are streamed online through sites like twitch. How come every time there is a violent shooting it becomes about guns, but when some whack job mows down a crowd of people with a car it’s not about vehicles? Whack jobs will always find a way, especially when they can become immediate social media click bait.

[dewilson58]

Successful lawsuits against gun manufacturers might get some changes like those the tobacco companies underwent decades ago.

Tobacco industry lied, added ingredients and covered up information.

Gun manufacturers have not.

:ho:

[ThirdOfFive]

Guns have been around forever, but mass shootings are up during recent years. What’s different than before, social media and violent video games that are streamed online through sites like twitch. How come every time there is a violent shooting it becomes about guns, but when some whack job mows down a crowd of people with a car it’s not about vehicles? Whack jobs will always find a way, especially when they can become immediate social media click bait.
Bingo.

[Michael G.]

This country is going back to the wild west days.

[44Apple]

Maybe we should not let our children play violent video games that gives them the idea that it's ok to kill people ?

I remember when the adults blamed watching violent TV shows for bad deeds done by the kids. We've moved on.

[blueash]

This country is going back to the wild west days.

The Wild West had vigorous gun regulation in the towns and mass slaughters of civilians the likes of which we see so often did not happen.

Do you remember how horrified everyone was by Columbine in 1999. It had never happened before. In the last 22 years there have now been 13 mass school killings, defined as 3 or more deaths in a single incident.

Thoughts and prayers are not working.

[Trayderjoe]

Guns have been around forever, but mass shootings are up during recent years. What’s different than before, social media and violent video games that are streamed online through sites like twitch. How come every time there is a violent shooting it becomes about guns, but when some whack job mows down a crowd of people with a car it’s not about vehicles? Whack jobs will always find a way, especially when they can become immediate social media click bait.

Unfortunately the same lazy rhetoric of "more gun laws" reappears. How about enforcing current laws? For example, it is a criminal offense to lie on the background check form when purchasing a gun from a Federal Firearm Licensee (FFL), yet how many people fail the background check but are not arrested or tried? Note that an FFL will not legally sell a gun to someone who fails a background check. Why are people who commit violent crimes allowed out of jail with little or no bail? Perhaps there needs to be more calls for getting to the root cause of "why" the attack occurred versus implementing more laws that CRIMINALS don't care to follow anyway?

The US Secret Service conducted a threat assessment in 2021 entitled "Averting Targeted School Violence" (link (https://www.secretservice.gov/sites/default/files/reports/2021-03/USSS%20Averting%20Targeted%20School%20Violence.202 1.03.pdf)). The assessment included "an analysis of 67 averted school attack plots" which also indicated that "Students who plotted school attacks shared many similarities with students who perpetrated school attacks". There is a section entitled "Key Findings and Implications" on pages 4 and 5 that talks about these characteristics.

Maybe more studies like these need to be conducted, if they don't already exist, and then a NONPARTISAN discussion about how to implement "fixes" can be had.

[Boffin]

19 innocent children, 2 dedicated teachers, lives lost, solution????? More guns, bigger prisons, NOT. Japan, no guns unless police and military, murder rate .3 percent per 100,000, America, 4.7 per 100,000. Mental health wake up call.

Bad news: 21 dead.
Good news: no need for a judge and jury.

[Stu from NYC]

Maybe we should not let our children play violent video games that gives them the idea that it's ok to kill people ?

When we were kids had pea shooters, carpet guns and cap pistols and we all carried around pocket knives even to school.

Had fish fights and noone even thought of taking out their knives.

Had all kind of cowboy and war movies and rather violent cartoons so we were also exposed to violence and we all survived.

There are over 400 million guns in this country how in the world would you get rid of them?

Have no clue how to fix this problem but defunding the police will not help.

[jebartle]

Locking all school doors, apparently this didn't happen here.

[BigSteph]

I'll not defend guns or prisons, but just know that Japan has it own problems -- they are not shooting each other, but they have extreme mental health issues. I watched several recent documentaries on Japan's low birth rate, the lack of desire for intimacy among young adults, the extreme loner syndrome, these are just a few issues they have -- along with a large aging population.


19 innocent children, 2 dedicated teachers, lives lost, solution????? More guns, bigger prisons, NOT. Japan, no guns unless police and military, murder rate .3 percent per 100,000, America, 4.7 per 100,000. Mental health wake up call.

[BigSteph]

I'll not defend or debate guns, but I would posit if you took all the guns away right this moment, there would still be rage and loneliness and hate and desperation.

Guns make hate and rage easy to manifest, profoundly. They are rarely the cause of rage, but they are, too often, the tools to express it.

I have no answers, only observations and opinions......

When we were kids had pea shooters, carpet guns and cap pistols and we all carried around pocket knives even to school.

Had fish fights and noone even thought of taking out their knives.

Had all kind of cowboy and war movies and rather violent cartoons so we were also exposed to violence and we all survived.

There are over 400 million guns in this country how in the world would you get rid of them?

Have no clue how to fix this problem but defunding the police will not help.

[tvbound]

Even as a gun owner, I just want to live in a country where everyone loves children - more than a lot of people love guns.

[MrFlorida]

How about installing metal detectors? It works for the airports.

[BigSteph]

I think we do have too many guns in America. I own guns but can be realistic about it.

The thing is, it is not the entirety of the issue.

Google acid attacks in London. Knife attacks in the UK.

If you want to hear about mass casualty, Google Bow and Arrow killer in Norway.

I would agree that guns do enable mentally ill people to commit mass casualty events more broadly and severely.


Bingo.

[MartinSE]

Guns have been around forever, but mass shootings are up during recent years. What’s different than before, social media and violent video games that are streamed online through sites like twitch. How come every time there is a violent shooting it becomes about guns, but when some whack job mows down a crowd of people with a car it’s not about vehicles? Whack jobs will always find a way, especially when they can become immediate social media click bait.

350 million guns have not been around forever. And it is growing at historic rates, just like school shootings - coincidence? Number of guns has tripled since 2000. You remember 2000? The year after the first school shooting - Columbine.

Yeah, another thing that has changed, concerning what has changed, just a week ago wasn't it that the crazy quoted Replacement theory for killing 10 people.

Whack jobs are everywhere, in every country in every society. Only the US has mass shootings in school - constantly. Only in the US. What does the US have that no other country in the world has? 350 MILLION guns in circulation.

I have NOTHING against responsible gun owners or gun ownership. I can't think of ANY way 350 million guns can be collected. It is NOT going to happen.

So, how about we all get together and figure out a way to keep responsible gun owners happy and armed, while at the same time creating fewer mourning parents. 231 school shootings in the 22 years since Columbine.

Or, would everyone like to just keep calling each other naming and spewing "facts" like guns don't kill people. Yeah guns do nothing until a person picks it up, the gun is used to kill 21 people in under 2 minutes.

I have heard someone say crazies will find a way, like using a car to drive into a crowd. Yeah, true, and when was the last time a crazy drove a car into a crowded class room and killed 19 children?

[MartinSE]

Unfortunately the same lazy rhetoric of "more gun laws" reappears. How about enforcing current laws? For example, it is a criminal offense to lie on the background check form when purchasing a gun from a Federal Firearm Licensee (FFL), yet how many people fail the background check but are not arrested or tried? Note that an FFL will not legally sell a gun to someone who fails a background check. Why are people who commit violent crimes allowed out of jail with little or no bail? Perhaps there needs to be more calls for getting to the root cause of "why" the attack occurred versus implementing more laws that CRIMINALS don't care to follow anyway?

The US Secret Service conducted a threat assessment in 2021 entitled "Averting Targeted School Violence" (link (https://www.secretservice.gov/sites/default/files/reports/2021-03/USSS%20Averting%20Targeted%20School%20Violence.202 1.03.pdf)). The assessment included "an analysis of 67 averted school attack plots" which also indicated that "Students who plotted school attacks shared many similarities with students who perpetrated school attacks". There is a section entitled "Key Findings and Implications" on pages 4 and 5 that talks about these characteristics.

Maybe more studies like these need to be conducted, if they don't already exist, and then a NONPARTISAN discussion about how to implement "fixes" can be had.

Sorry, this shooter did not lie on the background check, Texas doesn’t require one. He just turned 18 and legally purchased 2 ar15s a day later and then killed 21 people.

It’s hard to enforce laws that don’t exist.

[Keefelane66]

Today is the 144th day of 2022.

The Uvalde shooting is the 212th mass shooting of 2022.

Gun violence is a public health crisis.

[jimbomaybe]

When we were kids had pea shooters, carpet guns and cap pistols and we all carried around pocket knives even to school.

Had fish fights and noone even thought of taking out their knives.

Had all kind of cowboy and war movies and rather violent cartoons so we were also exposed to violence and we all survived.

There are over 400 million guns in this country how in the world would you get rid of them?

Have no clue how to fix this problem but defunding the police will not help.

Could it be the direction we have been given by our social scientists , people feel the need for guns to protect themselves from those around us that the laws now cant seem to with the improvements made, have mental problems ?, cant abridge your freedoms, much like the results of defunding the police,

[MartinSE]

How about installing metal detectors? It works for the airports.

In other words, "hardening" the schools.

Seriously, okay, and let's replace all the school buses with armored personal transports, and we can replace PE in school with firing range practice, and issue every student a firearm for personal protection when they arrive at school.

Yeah, that sound like the country I want my grand kids to grow up in. At this point I am starting to worry about whether my grandkids will just grow up.

[MartinSE]

I'll not defend or debate guns, but I would posit if you took all the guns away right this moment, there would still be rage and loneliness and hate and desperation.

Guns make hate and rage easy to manifest, profoundly. They are rarely the cause of rage, but they are, too often, the tools to express it.

I have no answers, only observations and opinions......

Guns facilitate it. All the way back to the Campus tower in Texas, he could have thrown bats and rocks at the people walking around below him, b ut guns were more effective.

I have a solution, but I am not naive enough to think it has a chance. Stop fighting and arguing and come to a compromise to protect our children (grand and great grand) at School. Something both sides can agree on. I here one side calling for bipartisan work, and I hear the other side talking about all the reasons we can't do anything - you know, god given 2nd amendment.

Well, somehow we managed to free slaves, and give women the vote and the country didn't end. Maybe we can. Find an amendment that both responsible gun owners and responsible anti-gun owners can agree on.

BTW, where is the pro-life outrage? Are these 19 children not worth protecting?

[billethkid]

Locking the school doors requires enforcement. Our society has become one that does not do/accept enforcement very well.

Those charged with enforcement do so with selectivity....hence weakening enforcement.

Enforcement, at times generates inconvenience......which we all know will again get watered down.

And so on!! Nothing new, unfortunately.

If the "need" for change/control/etc is as great as being professed by some...... where was it before this shooting?

[Caymus]

The deadliest murder of school children was done without guns.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2022/05/24/bath-consolidated-school-massacre-uvalde/

[Djean1981]

Criminals don't care about gun laws. An example is the cartel - crime in Mexico where gun possession carries a prison sentence. We can't even keep drugs off the street much less guns. And, now guns can be printed. Regretfully, telling people to give up their guns, so only the criminals will be armed, is not the answer..

[Number 10 GI]

Sorry, this shooter did not lie on the background check, Texas doesn’t require one. He just turned 18 and legally purchased 2 ar15s a day later and then killed 21 people.

It’s hard to enforce laws that don’t exist.

Very few states require a State conducted background check. The federal government DOES require a check on all firearms purchased from a licensed gun dealer. The federal law applies to all states and territories of the U.S. A state cannot preempt that requirement, only add to it.

What laws weren't enforced??? The murderer and the gun dealer both complied with federal law by completing federal form 4473. Apparently the murderer passed the background check as he was able to take possession of the firearms.

We have laws against robbery, rape, assault, drug dealing, murder and a whole slew of other illegal activity. How well are they preventing crime??? We have a severe violence problem in this country yet no one wants to address that. The politicians misdirect your attention by blaming the tool used by criminals instead of working on the real problem, because that would require them to actually work on something.

[ThirdOfFive]

Today is the 144th day of 2022.

The Uvalde shooting is the 212th mass shooting of 2022.

Gun violence is a public health crisis.
I'd be interested to know what the criteria are for a "mass" shooting, upon which the numbers in the post I'm responding to are based.

[Boffin]

19 innocent children, 2 dedicated teachers, lives lost, solution????? More guns, bigger prisons, NOT. Japan, no guns unless police and military, murder rate .3 percent per 100,000, America, 4.7 per 100,000. Mental health wake up call.

Time to invest some more in:

Smith & Wesson Brands (NASDAQ:SWBI)
Vista Outdoor (NYSE:VSTO)
Ammo (NASDAQ:POWW)

[dewilson58]

I'd be interested to know what the criteria are for a "mass" shooting, upon which the numbers in the post I'm responding to are based.

4 is the magic number.

Mass Shootings are, for the most part an American phenomenon. While they are generally grouped together as one type of incident they are several with the foundation definition being that they have a minimum of four victims shot, either injured or killed, not including any shooter who may also have been killed or injured in the incident

Mass Shootings in 2022 | Gun Violence Archive (https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting?page=1)

[Trayderjoe]

Sorry, this shooter did not lie on the background check, Texas doesn’t require one. He just turned 18 and legally purchased 2 ar15s a day later and then killed 21 people.

It’s hard to enforce laws that don’t exist.

Never said that this particular murderer purchased their guns illegally. My point was that there are laws that are not enforced, one of them being lying on the background check which is required by federal law. Having said that, per the Texas Department of Public Safety, "House Bill 1927 (Permitless Carry) does not repeal the License to Carry Program (LTC), established by Government Code Chapter 411, Subchapter H. The department is still required to process applications, conduct background checks, and produce a laminated license for those who qualify." (link (https://www.dps.texas.gov/section/handgun-licensing/overview))

When we hear that we need more gun laws, we don't hear how the additional gun laws would have prevented the tragedy to begin with. For example, a current talking point is how Universal Background Check legislation needs to be passed, yet in this specific case, the ATF reported that the murderer did in fact purchase his weapons legally.

More laws won't prevent these tragedies, I submit that committing murder is against the law, yet that law doesn't seem to stop this madness. If a perpetrator is intent on "suicide by cop" after such a heinous act, just how will more laws get them to not commit these crimes? What is the "endgame" of more laws? Is the reality that gun confiscation is the true goal?

Instead of focusing on more laws, how about understanding why current laws are not effective? Are they not being enforced? If not, why? Is the penalty for committing the crime an insufficient deterrent? Are there societal issues that may be contributing? How are we handling those suffering from mental illness? How about those who are just plain evil?

The FBI reported that they conducted over 38.8 Million Gun Background Checks in 2021 (link (https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/nics_firearm_checks_-_month_year.pdf/view)). The NSSF Trade Industry Association conducted a retail survey that showed an estimated 3.2 million first time gun buyers in the first half of 2021 (link (https://www.nssf.org/articles/nssf-retail-surveys-show-3-2-million-estimated-first-time-gun-buyers-in-first-half-of-2021/)). So why are there so many first time buyers? Maybe people are worried about their safety and prefer "to be judged by 12 than carried by 6".

There is no easy answer to why mass shootings are occurring, but until the focus shifts from the "how" to the "why" we will stay in an endless loop.

[Hancie2]

Was disappointed when driving around the villages and seeing so few flags at half mast. Where is the respect? Maybe we should start there, with respect for each other.

[MartinSE]

Maybe our government should stop sending so much money to other countries and use our military to help protect our public schools

Absolutely, 100% NO. The day our military is used in our country is the day our country ends.

[MartinSE]

Very few states require a State conducted background check. The federal government DOES require a check on all firearms purchased from a licensed gun dealer. The federal law applies to all states and territories of the U.S. A state cannot preempt that requirement, only add to it.

What laws weren't enforced??? The murderer and the gun dealer both complied with federal law by completing federal form 4473. Apparently the murderer passed the background check as he was able to take possession of the firearms.

We have laws against robbery, rape, assault, drug dealing, murder and a whole slew of other illegal activity. How well are they preventing crime??? We have a severe violence problem in this country yet no one wants to address that. The politicians misdirect your attention by blaming the tool used by criminals instead of working on the real problem, because that would require them to actually work on something.

Funny, the police have stated the shooter LEGALLY purchased the gun in Texas. So, what law was to be enforced?

[MartinSE]

I'd be interested to know what the criteria are for a "mass" shooting, upon which the numbers in the post I'm responding to are based.

Go to the FBI website, it is all defined and explained.

[MartinSE]

Never said that this particular murderer purchased their guns illegally. My point was that there are laws that are not enforced, one of them being lying on the background check which is required by federal law.

And I was not saying all school shootings are by legally purchased weapons. My point was that this one was, so even if there are laws that are not enforced (and I agree with you there are many laws that are not enforced) it was not a contributing factor in this case.

So, by saying if new are not addressing why, are you saying there is no point is trying to reduce the how?

NO ONE knows why electricity works - I guess we shovel stop using it (sarcasm). Doing something is better than doing nothing.

But, not all somethings are useful. That is obvious, since there are lots of "somethings" being done, useless gun Carol laws that are not enforced and have too many loop holes for example.

So, your post was excellent, but came to the same conclusion as many others, we don't know HOW to stop school shootings.

My suggestion is we start talking about it, and stop fighting over the past and find a solution for the future sake of our country and our children.

[Djean1981]

Very true. A lot of the behavior is driven by wanting attention. The shooter was posting on social media prior to the shootings. Social media has created a lot of narcissists.

[davem4616]

so sad...and so sad that our leaders seem to be incapable of doing anything to prevent this

maybe they're just too busy trying to figure out how to get reelected to do anything that will really make a difference in the world we live in

[Trayderjoe]

And I was not saying all school shootings are by legally purchased weapons. My point was that this one was, so even if there are laws that are not enforced (and I agree with you there are many laws that are not enforced) it was not a contributing factor in this case.

So, by saying if new are not addressing why, are you saying there is no point is trying to reduce the how?

I will clarify my use of the term "how" in my previous postings on this thread to the use of a gun/rifle as the focal point instead of things like how did the warning signs about this individual get missed as has happened in other previous events? How/why did this perpetrator get past a school resource officer who approached him and engaged him? (Per recent reports). Certainly other questions of "how" need to be addressed. Unfortunately there is a race to be first instead of waiting to get data, so immediately there is a call for more gun laws. The call for more gun laws leans into the emotional side of the discussion, but I have yet to see a correlation of how new gun laws will stop the mass shootings. Per a report (link (https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/suficspi16.pdf)) published in 2019 by the DOJ in which it surveyed prison inmates in 2016, the majority of guns used in their crimes were obtained illegally. So if guns are obtained illegally, or legally as in this specific case, how do the gun control laws prevent a recurrence of this event?

NO ONE knows why electricity works - I guess we should stop using it (sarcasm). Doing something is better than doing nothing.

But, not all somethings are useful. That is obvious, since there are lots of "somethings" being done, useless gun control laws that are not enforced and have too many loop holes for example.

I am curious as to which gun control laws are useless and not enforced and what the many loopholes are that make them useless.

So, your post was excellent, but came to the same conclusion as many others, we don't know HOW to stop school shootings.

My suggestion is we start talking about it, and stop fighting over the past and find a solution for the future sake of our country and our children

We may not know how to stop the school shootings all together, but we do know how to mitigate the risk. Unfortunately not all schools have implemented risk management plans (in whole or in part) for one reason or another.

I think that the big hurdle is how to start the dialogue. It appears that emotion and politics tend to be the start and end of the discussion.

[Woodbear]

Sorry, this shooter did not lie on the background check, Texas doesn’t require one. He just turned 18 and legally purchased 2 ar15s a day later and then killed 21 people.

It’s hard to enforce laws that don’t exist.

The shooter legally purchased two AR platform rifles from a federally licensed gun store. This WOULD have required a background check.

[Woodbear]

350 million guns have not been around forever. And it is growing at historic rates, just like school shootings - coincidence? Number of guns has tripled since 2000. You remember 2000? The year after the first school shooting - Columbine.

Yeah, another thing that has changed, concerning what has changed, just a week ago wasn't it that the crazy quoted Replacement theory for killing 10 people.

Whack jobs are everywhere, in every country in every society. Only the US has mass shootings in school - constantly. Only in the US. What does the US have that no other country in the world has? 350 MILLION guns in circulation.

I have NOTHING against responsible gun owners or gun ownership. I can't think of ANY way 350 million guns can be collected. It is NOT going to happen.

So, how about we all get together and figure out a way to keep responsible gun owners happy and armed, while at the same time creating fewer mourning parents. 231 school shootings in the 22 years since Columbine.

Or, would everyone like to just keep calling each other naming and spewing "facts" like guns don't kill people. Yeah guns do nothing until a person picks it up, the gun is used to kill 21 people in under 2 minutes.

I have heard someone say crazies will find a way, like using a car to drive into a crowd. Yeah, true, and when was the last time a crazy drove a car into a crowded class room and killed 19 children?

Tim McVeigh killed 19 children and 168 people in total with only fertilizer and diesel fuel

[MrChip72]

Criminals don't care about gun laws. An example is the cartel - crime in Mexico where gun possession carries a prison sentence. We can't even keep drugs off the street much less guns. And, now guns can be printed. Regretfully, telling people to give up their guns, so only the criminals will be armed, is not the answer..

This is irrelevant to this mass killing event. Same with in Buffalo last week and Michigan a couple months ago where the guns were legally purchased and were reported to be birthday and Christmas presents for the gunman in each case.

[jswirs]

19 innocent children, 2 dedicated teachers, lives lost, solution????? More guns, bigger prisons, NOT. Japan, no guns unless police and military, murder rate .3 percent per 100,000, America, 4.7 per 100,000. Mental health wake up call.
As someone else posted, the problem is the culture here in the USA. Far too many parents need or want to work two jobs, leaving their children to their own devices for far too long a time. These shooters always give out signs of some sort regarding their intentions. Parents need to make their children feel loved and do their due diligence. Sometimes that means searching their rooms and looking into their computers.
The answer, IMHO, starts at home.

[GOLFER54]

One would be foolish to believe that guns are the problem. There are kids and adults that are mentally unstable, some take medications, others seek help, some do not. If an unstable person gets a gun, whether it be legal or illegally and if they have bad intentions, how is anyone to know if they plan to do harm to others ?Criminals on the other hand carry guns with the intentions if they are cornered or interrupted during their crime they will no doubt shoot someone. Those folks that have purchased a gun legally have the intentions of protecting themselves or their love ones. Sadly we see that mass murders in US has seen more than 200 mass shootings since January.

[GRACEALLEMAN]

19 innocent children, 2 dedicated teachers, lives lost, solution????? More guns, bigger prisons, NOT. Japan, no guns unless police and military, murder rate .3 percent per 100,000, America, 4.7 per 100,000. Mental health wake up call.
It all starts with the family base. No father mentioned. His mother was a complete drug addict. Didn't even know that he shot the grandmother. While she was out playing around the child was in the school killing people.

[WingedFoot78]

In the "Wild West Days" ammunition capacity was limited to six shots or whatever the rifles of the times held. Now with the AR type weapons, the capacity has increased multiple times. Is there any need for these types of weapons? Can you hunt legally with them?

[kitnhead]

I'd be interested to know what the criteria are for a "mass" shooting, upon which the numbers in the post I'm responding to are based.
A mass shooting is defined as four or more. This has been the definition, although many news outlets don’t like it because it does not support their agenda and they have tried to redefine the term. This definition is from the FBI crime statistics.

[thevillages2013]

Three words. ARM THE TEACHERS. This POS would have picked a different target if it were public knowledge that the teachers were packing

[Fran from MI]

Guns have been around forever, but mass shootings are up during recent years. What’s different than before, social media and violent video games that are streamed online through sites like twitch. How come every time there is a violent shooting it becomes about guns, but when some whack job mows down a crowd of people with a car it’s not about vehicles? Whack jobs will always find a way, especially when they can become immediate social media click bait.

If you can list for me the number of "whack jobs" that used a car to mow down 8-10 year old kids that numbers more than 0, I will consider your argument. Schools have become the target for "whack jobs" over the last 10 years.

In this case an 18 year old with no prior mental health issues buys 2 Assault Rifles with high capacity magazines LEGALLY. Can anyone explain to me what 18 year old has a need for such guns?

Now we hear Texas saying that they are going to commit more money for mental health (I guess for the survivors?) and are going to "harden their schools" by allowing Teachers to have guns. I guess this means teachers will be allowed to have an AR-15 tucked between their legs since these attacks typically happen with high capacity magazines and sometimes even some body armor. Does that really sound like it makes sense? It wasn't long ago that the push was on for Armed Guards in every school district. I guess once the noise settled down, they realized there wasn't enough money to do that.

Does Social Media play a part--absolutely. Does mental health play a part-absolutely. Does the easy access to high powered, high capacity guns play a part-ABSOLUTELY. Had this kid just had rifle used for hunting, he could not have killed as many 10 year olds, if any.

This is a multi faceted problem that requires tackling ALL of those issues together, a little at a time, but fixing any 1 of them will not do it.

[banjobob]

The problem is not the gun, the problem is single parent households . The decline of the family unit in not married shacking up and producing babies , pretending to be legitimate, women being left to raise children .Compare Chicago, most gun control in the country ,worst gun violence in the country. Massachusetts no gun permit required ,safest state for gun violence. Politicians scream to repeal allowing gun ownership, Nonsense ! Hold parents responsible for their childrens behavior, period.

[36Aday]

Mental health is a solution! Gun control is not the answer.

[Anne Cink]

I feel the same way about video games. Why do they never investigate what kind of video games a shooter watched? Hollywood elites scream their outrage and demand gun control. yet they produce ever more violent movies and tv shows with bigger and bigger guns! Video games get more realistic and more despicably violent! We desensitize children to the value of life! Death becomes less "real"!

[Anne Cink]

Sadly, there is little anyone can do to prevent a mass shooting if the shooter is willing to die in the process!

[36Aday]

School personnel must be armed to protect students. On a voluntary basis.

[Sandy and Ed]

Just some rambling thoughts:

This issue is not an easy fix. I believe in gun control and think we have a lot of controls already that perhaps are not being enforced. And true there are adjustments needed to tighten up on who should be allowed to own a gun. And try there should be a penalty for those found to be in possession of an illegal gun.

I own a gun. Not an arsenal. I own a gun to protect my home from invasion. I do not carry it although I can. If I did not feel it necessary to own a gun I would not.

Unfortunately police do not prevent crime. They are no longer allowed to. They can only respond to crime, I.e. after the horse has left the stable. I do not want someone to solve the murder of my family. I need a way to prevent the murder of my family

Logical Gun control is a partial solution to the problem but it needs to reflect WHY folks like me even own a gun.

[me4vt]

What do You expect when Americans take GOD out of everything and insert the Worldly ways into everything?? Guns have never killed anyone, it’s the person using the Gun!

[TNLAKEPANDA]

Don’t start with the Anti Gun carp. Guns are not the problem! People are the problem and in particular young people. All the shooters were in the age range of 18-20. We are not raising our kids properly like it or not. Respect is gone and Religion is nearly gone especially for young kids. You mentioned Japan well the difference is not about guns it’s about Respect. They still teach it!

Anyone who thinks that banning or worse conversation of guns will fix the problem is a fool. We will become a world of Mad Max.

[me4vt]

What do You expect when Americans take GOD out of everything and insert the Worldly ways into everything?? Guns have never killed anyone, it’s the person using the Gun!

[Vikingjunior]

Great, maybe we can sue the alcohol companies for all their destruction and car manufacturers because their cars can mow down people at a parade and knife companies too.
When do people start taking responsibility for their own behavior?

They can make all the gun laws they want but if this society doesn't change its tune it's only going to get worst.

[danglanzsr]

How about installing metal detectors? It works for the airports.

The shooter in Robb would certainly have been stopped if he knew he would have to go through a metal detector.

[Mushkie]

19 innocent children, 2 dedicated teachers, lives lost, solution????? More guns, bigger prisons, NOT. Japan, no guns unless police and military, murder rate .3 percent per 100,000, America, 4.7 per 100,000. Mental health wake up call.

There are more deaths from car accidents caused by texting and alcohol but we don’t ban cars, iPhones or booze.

Celebrities and politicians screaming “ban guns” enjoy the security of ARMED security.

Did the fact that shooter was transgender make the police scared of being called transphobic from taking legal action of the shooter’s prior violent behavior- shooting people with a BB gun from his home and car, assaulting people, threatening violence??

Forbidding law abiding citizens from owning guns won’t stop gun violence- it will leave only the criminals and the government with guns to do violence against law abiding citizens- ask the hundreds of millions of unarmed citizens of China, USSR, Nazi Germany, Cuba etc slaughtered by their government that first enacted laws to take away their guns, ensuring their citizens wouldn’t be able to protect themselves.

One must be MOST scared of any government that is afraid of it’s citizen owning guns.

I don’t think it’s coincidence that since the law making schools a “gun free zone” back in the 90’s, school shootings skyrocketed- the government wanted school shootings to sicken and scare the citizens into willingly giving up their guns- it looks less fascist if the citizens volunteer to give up their guns. The law made our schools like lame sheep waiting for the slaughter. We need teachers and administrators that are capable gun users to have guns along with armed security officers back in schools.

It’s not a coincidence that we don’t see there mass shootings at gun stores and shooting ranges.

[Andyb]

Please, guns don’t kill people, people kill people.

[MartinSE]

Tim McVeigh killed 19 children and 168 people in total with only fertilizer and diesel fuel

Yes he did that was one case 27 years ago.. How many schools haver been attacked this year so far? Over 200 mass shootings so far this year.

[GizmoWhiskers]

19 innocent children, 2 dedicated teachers, lives lost, solution????? More guns, bigger prisons, NOT. Japan, no guns unless police and military, murder rate .3 percent per 100,000, America, 4.7 per 100,000. Mental health wake up call.

Control the media minions would be a start. They falsely report on what an AR15 even is. At this point they are biased on race of perps. They fix the narritive and manipulate the cherry picked audience and then when conditions are just right they set up copycats. It's a digusting display for $$ and ratings.

Prayers do work and evil is real. Mental health care is a factor and so is the ability for the healthy to defend.

[tklloop]

It’s amazing how most on this site repost the same old talking points from Fox noise and the far right gun nutz! The issue is very simple,,,,, stronger background checks- what we have now is lame and useless! Not one person in america needs to own an Assault rifle! NO ONE!. Not one person in America needs to own body armor! If any 18 year old child purchases an Assault rifle, body armor, and massive ammo,,,,RED FLAG folks!

[Captainpd]

As always, it's not the method, it's the individual. 11 teenagers die daily from text/driving. Legal owners have 300 million guns, trillion rounds of ammo, if we were the problem, you'd now it. If gun control worked, Chicago would be Mayberry USA. I have no problem with strict background checks when it comes to firearms, can we use the same checks that are used for voter ID? How about relaxing HEPA, and maybe these people can be identified BEFORE instead of after. Parents are failing their kids and society is failing us

[Eg_cruz]

Maybe we should not let our children play violent video games that gives them the idea that it's ok to kill people ?
Could not agree with you more. Let’s also look at Hollywood and the movies they make.

[tklloop]

Please, guns don’t kill people, people kill people.

Please, people drunk in cars don’t kill people, alcohol kills people! GEEZ Give me a break!

[MDLNB]

Perhaps we should ban ALL "bad" guns, right? I only have good guns so I am fine. None of my guns have gone on shooting/killing sprees, so they be good lil' guns. After all, it's not the people wielding the guns, it's the guns that are bad and the people just don't know how to keep them from going out and killing the innocent folks. Of course, more people are killed by doctors than guns so maybe we should also ban doctors. How about those evil cars? After all, it 's not the drunk driver's fault. They don't kill people, just the cars that run over people and destroy other folks property.
Get over it. Guns have NOTHING to do with EVIL thoughts. They are just a tool, used for a purpose. Some folks just insist on using guns for the wrong purpose, killing the innocent. If you go to countries with gun bans, you will see that they have more knife murders than we do. Evil people will always find a way to perpetrate evil, whether with a gun, knife, bomb, fire, ax, hammer, etc.
Like someone else said, try banning certain video games to children.
Teach children to respect life at an early age. Teach them the value of life. People are not born evil, they learn it from someone.

[dewilson58]

Control the media minions would be a start. They falsely report on what an AR15 even is.

:bigbow:

[Eg_cruz]

Successful lawsuits against gun manufacturers might get some changes like those the tobacco companies underwent decades ago.
Did it stop everyone from smoking …….nope

[donassaid]

I guess you forget Nazi Germany, Venezuela and every other Communist and Socialist country whose first move is to take all the guns. What part of "if you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns" do you not understand?

[ThirdOfFive]

Very true. A lot of the behavior is driven by wanting attention. The shooter was posting on social media prior to the shootings. Social media has created a lot of narcissists.
Indeed!

Social media. The ultimate oxymoron.

[Vikingjunior]

Friendly reminder, Hunter Biden obtained a gun illegally and tossed in a trash can near a school.

[Randyj66]

Most people who are voicing there opinions are sitting behind a locked door, however the most important people ,the children are not! Please lock our schools down and solve this problem ������ More than 75 percent of adults work behind locked doors, just doesn't make sense.

[dewilson58]

Friendly reminder, Hunter Biden obtained a gun illegally and tossed in a trash can near a school.

Really?? Never heard that one.

I need to Phone a Friend.

[Eg_cruz]

The problem is not the gun, the problem is single parent households . The decline of the family unit in not married shacking up and producing babies , pretending to be legitimate, women being left to raise children .Compare Chicago, most gun control in the country ,worst gun violence in the country. Massachusetts no gun permit required ,safest state for gun violence. Politicians scream to repeal allowing gun ownership, Nonsense ! Hold parents responsible for their childrens behavior, period.
Littleton shooters lived with both parents

[MartinSE]

Did it stop everyone from smoking …….nope

Smoking cut in half in less than 20 years. As this relates to this thread, if we cut the mass shootings in half that would be 100 less mass shootings this year alone.

While we may not completely 100% solve a problem, that doesn't mean we shouldn't do what we can.

[MartinSE]

Friendly reminder, Hunter Biden obtained a gun illegally and tossed in a trash can near a school.

Friendly reminder, Hunter obtained the gun legally, and his wife threw it away. But other than that your post is accurate.

[Linnberg]

Maybe we should not let our children play violent video games that gives them the idea that it's ok to kill people ?

I’m sorry but that is way to simplistic which has now become an incredibly
Complex issue. Part
Of problem is that it is in our founding culture, add
To that, very little mental awareness or help. Yes licensing and restriction of AR rifles would help but we are so past that as a possible solution. Hope that our
Society finds more answers as now everyone expects it to
Become even more rampant. Certainly open carry with no
Restrictions cannot help the problem.

[Stu from NYC]

Could not agree with you more. Let’s also look at Hollywood and the movies they make.

Growing up see war movies and cowboy movies and we all carried pocket knives and cap pistols.

How come the older generation has not killed itself off?

Do not know the answer but taken guns from law abiding citizens is not it.

[MartinSE]

The shooter legally purchased two AR platform rifles from a federally licensed gun store. This WOULD have required a background check.

And an 18 year old with no criminal background passed, and walked out with almost 400 rounds and 2 ar15s.

[MartinSE]

One would be foolish to believe that guns are the problem. There are kids and adults that are mentally unstable, some take medications, others seek help, some do not. If an unstable person gets a gun, whether it be legal or illegally and if they have bad intentions, how is anyone to know if they plan to do harm to others ?Criminals on the other hand carry guns with the intentions if they are cornered or interrupted during their crime they will no doubt shoot someone. Those folks that have purchased a gun legally have the intentions of protecting themselves or their love ones. Sadly we see that mass murders in US has seen more than 200 mass shootings since January.

So, if I understand you, there are NO mentally unstable people in the rest of the world?

[ThirdOfFive]

The problem is not the gun, the problem is single parent households . The decline of the family unit in not married shacking up and producing babies , pretending to be legitimate, women being left to raise children .Compare Chicago, most gun control in the country ,worst gun violence in the country. Massachusetts no gun permit required ,safest state for gun violence. Politicians scream to repeal allowing gun ownership, Nonsense ! Hold parents responsible for their childrens behavior, period.
Absolutely!

Back in the day, the "day" in question being 1965, guns in school was nothing out of the ordinary. Gun safety training was offered at the high school I attended and on the range days seeing kids with guns on buses was totally normal. We had to store them at the Principal's office until range time but the ammo we just carried loose in our pockets. Oh--and no self-respecting lad at my school would EVER be caught without his trusty Barlow pocket knife. Saw a teacher borrow one from a kid one time when the pencil sharpener was on the fritz.

The three biggest behavior problems were talking in class, chewing gum and running in the halls. And even then, you didn't want your parents knowing. Mom and Dad had a talk with each of us at a young age: "never get in trouble at school and complain to us about it, because you'll be in twice as much trouble when you get home". And they meant it.

Oh--just about all of came from two married parents households, raised to take responsibility for our actions, respect hard work, and to take pride in academic accomplishments. One of the proudest days of my high-school life was when I was invited to join the National Honor Society. School was a privilege, not an obligation.

Guns were as deadly back then as they are now. But being raised in the right circumstances, with the right values, meant that we respected guns much as would respect any other tool. Blaming the guns for today's ills is on the same par as blaming the fork because you gained ten pounds. Want to fix the problem? Fix the FAMILY.

[ThirdOfFive]

In the "Wild West Days" ammunition capacity was limited to six shots or whatever the rifles of the times held. Now with the AR type weapons, the capacity has increased multiple times. Is there any need for these types of weapons? Can you hunt legally with them?
Questioning the "need" for a gun or guns is just another way of avoiding discussing the real problems behind the violence of today. It is on a par with questioning the "need" for so many pairs of shoes.

And yes. You can hunt with them. My grandson shot his first deer with one, a 10-point buck.

[ThirdOfFive]

Sadly, there is little anyone can do to prevent a mass shooting if the shooter is willing to die in the process!
There are certainly steps we can take.

Texas has the right idea. Armed teachers may not be able to eradicate gun violence in their schools but it certainly can (and will) minimize the damage. It certainly beats all the public squalling about the guns.

[airstreamingypsy]

School shootings seem to have two components..... The first is a weird kid who has been bullied. The second is semi automatic AR-15s, the mass shooters'' weapon of choice. Both those things are almost always present.

Schools have to pay more attention to bullying...... parents have to watch for signs that their kid is being bullied too, and parents need to teach their kids not to bully other kids.

As for the AR-15s..... this country is so obsessed with guns, and misinterpreting the 2nd amendment, I guess thoughts and prayers is the only action that will be taken.

[MartinSE]

As someone else posted, the problem is the culture here in the USA. Far too many parents need or want to work two jobs, leaving their children to their own devices for far too long a time. These shooters always give out signs of some sort regarding their intentions. Parents need to make their children feel loved and do their due diligence. Sometimes that means searching their rooms and looking into their computers.
The answer, IMHO, starts at home.

The US has about 23% single parent families. And Great Britain has about 21%. The last school shooting in GB was in 1996, and a law was passed banning some guns and there has not been another since.

I am NOT saying banning guns would solve the problem here. I am saying there is a tendency to blame mental illness (people are mentally ill all love rate world), single parent homes, (we are not alone), Social Media (there entire world uses it), video games, (everyone plays them all over the world),violent movies (everyone watches them all over the world).

And yet, school shootings like this ONLY happen in the US. The single factor I have found consistently is we are the only country with 400 million guns in circulation.

[ThirdOfFive]

It’s amazing how most on this site repost the same old talking points from Fox noise and the far right gun nutz! The issue is very simple,,,,, stronger background checks- what we have now is lame and useless! Not one person in america needs to own an Assault rifle! NO ONE!. Not one person in America needs to own body armor! If any 18 year old child purchases an Assault rifle, body armor, and massive ammo,,,,RED FLAG folks!
What is an "assault" rifle?

[Worldseries27]

350 million guns have not been around forever. And it is growing at historic rates, just like school shootings - coincidence? Number of guns has tripled since 2000. You remember 2000? The year after the first school shooting - columbine.

Yeah, another thing that has changed, concerning what has changed, just a week ago wasn't it that the crazy quoted replacement theory for killing 10 people.

Whack jobs are everywhere, in every country in every society. Only the us has mass shootings in school - constantly. Only in the us. What does the us have that no other country in the world has? 350 million guns in circulation.

I have nothing against responsible gun owners or gun ownership. I can't think of any way 350 million guns can be collected. It is not going to happen.

So, how about we all get together and figure out a way to keep responsible gun owners happy and armed, while at the same time creating fewer mourning parents. 231 school shootings in the 22 years since columbine.

Or, would everyone like to just keep calling each other naming and spewing "facts" like guns don't kill people. Yeah guns do nothing until a person picks it up, the gun is used to kill 21 people in under 2 minutes.

I have heard someone say crazies will find a way, like using a car to drive into a crowd. Yeah, true, and when was the last time a crazy drove a car into a crowded class room and killed 19 children?
i believe there are enough active reservists in each state who could be assigned to all schools to man a central entrance with metal detectors to protect the children
this is a low cost solution since the reservists are already being paid.
If you are waiting for gun control laws to be passed be prepared to wait decades if then.

[MartinSE]

Absolutely!

Back in the day, the "day" in question being 1965, guns in school was nothing out of the ordinary. Gun safety training was offered at the high school I attended and on the range days seeing kids with guns on buses was totally normal. We had to store them at the Principal's office until range time but the ammo we just carried loose in our pockets. Oh--and no self-respecting lad at my school would EVER be caught without his trusty Barlow pocket knife. Saw a teacher borrow one from a kid one time when the pencil sharpener was on the fritz.

The three biggest behavior problems were talking in class, chewing gum and running in the halls. And even then, you didn't want your parents knowing. Mom and Dad had a talk with each of us at a young age: "never get in trouble at school and complain to us about it, because you'll be in twice as much trouble when you get home". And they meant it.

Oh--just about all of came from two married parents households, raised to take responsibility for our actions, respect hard work, and to take pride in academic accomplishments. One of the proudest days of my high-school life was when I was invited to join the National Honor Society. School was a privilege, not an obligation.

Guns were as deadly back then as they are now. But being raised in the right circumstances, with the right values, meant that we respected guns much as would respect any other tool. Blaming the guns for today's ills is on the same par as blaming the fork because you gained ten pounds. Want to fix the problem? Fix the FAMILY.

US single parent homes - 23%, Great Britain single parent homes - 21%.

Care to guess how many school shootings GB has had since the last school shooting in 1996 after which they banned most guns?

[Mulliganguy]

Not really, in those days you knew there were life or death consequences. Today the whacko’s actually get away with murder. Just saying.

[MartinSE]

What do You expect when Americans take GOD out of everything and insert the Worldly ways into everything?? Guns have never killed anyone, it’s the person using the Gun!

Please show me any post here that someone claimed GUN KILL PEOPLE. Absolutely, people kill people, and EVERY school mass killing involves the USE of guns. EVERY SINGLE ONE. Guns facilitate killing - you know, maybe that is why they are used in WARS. SO people can kill more people faster and easier.

That OLD NRA sloan is well worn out.

[KYtoTV2021]

19 innocent children, 2 dedicated teachers, lives lost, solution????? More guns, bigger prisons, NOT. Japan, no guns unless police and military, murder rate .3 percent per 100,000, America, 4.7 per 100,000. Mental health wake up call.

So, this dude thinks that taking away firearms from law-abiding citizens will make us safer? Does he/she think that the bad guys will turn in their guns? What a bunch of liberal/theoretical nonsense.

In the 1930s, Germany took away all firearms from citizens. How did that turn out?
Ditto Russia and North Korea.

Washington DC, Baltimore, MD and Chicago, IL have the most restrictive handgun laws in the country, yet among the very highest incidents of handgun violence.

If the bad guys breaking into my house know that I am certainly unarmed, who has the advantage?

C'mon man -- take off those liberal rose-colored glasses and THINK.

[ThirdOfFive]

US single parent homes - 23%, Great Britain single parent homes - 21%.

Care to guess how many school shootings GB has had since the last school shooting in 1996 after which they banned most guns?
My thought is that GB for the most part has been able to retain the values that existed back in 1965.

[retiredguy123]

Growing up see war movies and cowboy movies and we all carried pocket knives and cap pistols.

How come the older generation has not killed itself off?

Do not know the answer but taken guns from law abiding citizens is not it.
I used to love cap pistols and firecrackers. Gone.

But, there seems to be more guns on television now than there were when I was growing up.

[MDLNB]

Was disappointed when driving around the villages and seeing so few flags at half mast. Where is the respect? Maybe we should start there, with respect for each other.


Why? If we put flags at half mast every time there was a death, then we would have to have them at half mast ALL the time. How about half mast when there is an abortion, car accident death, Covid death, etc.? Respect? PC? Ethics? Morality? Manners? All gone! Chipped away by banning prayer in public, law enforcement, common sense, and making excuses for plain old bad behavior.

[MDLNB]

Please show me any post here that someone claimed GUN KILL PEOPLE. Absolutely, people kill people, and EVERY school mass killing involves the USE of guns. EVERY SINGLE ONE. Guns facilitate killing - you know, maybe that is why they are used in WARS. SO people can kill more people faster and easier.

That OLD NRA sloan is well worn out.


Sorry, but PEOPLE are the problem, not guns. Take away the bad people and you have no problems. Take away the tools, and you still have the bad people and you still have the same problem, only a different method. When a child hits another child with a toy fire truck and you take the toy away from him, he will just find some other means to bully the other child. Take away the bad child (or correct him in such manner that makes him too scared of the consequences) and you eliminate the problem. Taking away the tool of the crime does not eliminate the causation.

You can stop a shooter with another shooter. If the bad guy uses a bomb instead, you cannot stop him with another bomb. If he uses a knife, do you stop him with another knife? If you outlaw all means of violence, someone will just invent a new method. The answer is to eliminate the cause of the violence. If you cannot fix the person then you must eliminate his ability to perpetrate violence. You lock him up, or in extreme cases you put him down.

[Snprentice]

Maybe we should not let our children play violent video games that gives them the idea that it's ok to kill people ?

I agree with your statement. Young children are playing these games and have no idea of reality. These games make them feel powerful and in control. Violent video games need to he taken off the market.

[paulajr]

Sorry, this shooter did not lie on the background check, Texas doesn’t require one. He just turned 18 and legally purchased 2 ar15s a day later and then killed 21 people.

It’s hard to enforce laws that don’t exist.

PolitiFact | No proof for claim in wake of Uvalde that 50% of Texas guns sales lack background checks (https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/may/25/matthew-dowd/no-proof-claim-wake-uvalde-50-texas-guns-sales-lac/)

[MDLNB]

My thought is that GB for the most part has been able to retain the values that existed back in 1965.


The UK is NUMBER ONE in violent crimes in the World.

[ScottGo]

There is no point in taking any action, this is the new normal. The only way to stop is to take away all guns but that will not happen, too many 2nd amendment lovers. Just get used to it, Sandy Hook, Las Vegas, south Fla., Colorado, Texas. Got a bunch of states it hasn't happened yet, but it will. It's old news. Not going to change.

[PugMom]

when these killings happen, everyone is talking about guns, but i rarely her anyone mention SECURITY. as in Sandy Hook, this guy just walked right into the school, no checks or balances. Chris Murphy said we needed better security, but it never happened, except for the occasional unarmed patrol greeting parents.
the killings are horrific, but look how it brings out the SAME PEOPLE who've been arguing for gun control for years! it's obscene the way they turn out time after time, preaching but offering no real solutions. they use the dead children as a tool to enforce stricter laws & it hasn't worked yet, so i get the feeling nothing is sacred when it comes to manipulation

[Cmacnair@hotmail.com]

How that work out? People still smoke.

[Watchdr@yahoo.com]

Maybe we should not let our children play violent video games that gives them the idea that it's ok to kill people ?

If you have ever seen these video games like Call of Duty, the character you play in the game is exactly like this last grocery store killing. He had his camera mount on his chest so it would look just like it does in the video game, all the way down to the way he reloaded the gun.
Businesses put millions of dollars in 30 second advertising like commercials and radio because it works. Now think about kids playing these games for hours everyday. It is actually driven in the brain. These video games are way more to blame than the guns. But, it also falls back on the parents, discipline & the way they raise them.
I know many of you will argue that the guns are the problems but we have guns protecting our politicians, our money (banks), celebrities, special events, college sports, and much more. But NO security officers with guns in schools. If you ask me, teachers should have to go through a yearly gun course and carry to protect our children. Have fingers print access to the guns so the kids can’t take them and stop these killers in their tracks.

[Villages Kahuna]

AR-15’s?

[Speedie]

Sorry, this shooter did not lie on the background check, Texas doesn’t require one. He just turned 18 and legally purchased 2 ar15s a day later and then killed 21 people.

It’s hard to enforce laws that don’t exist.

Please get some facts. All states must follow the EXISTING Federal background checks before allowing a gun to be sold. This is a requirement (LAW) for any FFL dealer. The check must clear with the FBI and other federal databases.

[villager7591]

An AR-15 is not a military weapon. Think of a .22 rifle with an ammo clip.

[Speedie]

There is no point in taking any action, this is the new normal. The only way to stop is to take away all guns but that will not happen, too many 2nd amendment lovers. Just get used to it, Sandy Hook, Las Vegas, south Fla., Colorado, Texas. Got a bunch of states it hasn't happened yet, but it will. It's old news. Not going to change.

And would you also like others to take away your 1st amendment right to state your opinion? Much violence is being caused by the 1st amendment fermenting anger

People need to go back to church, put God back in schools, and teach their children right from wrong. Moral values and caring for others can help stop the violence.

[Worldseries27]

mr. "know it all" as usual. Your opinion. Not based by logic or reason. We live in a country where there are more guns than people. More guns than motor vehicles. Second amendment stated regulated militia but this country's guns are not regulated. No one needs an ar 15 assault weapon unless you are in the military at war. Your "two cents" is now worth less than a penny!
1. There is one goal and that is to protect our children from being murdered in school rooms
2. We must guard our children like a bank guards its money with armed personnel
3. Businesses that guard their product do not get caught up in political , social or constitutional arguements .you enter their store with criminal intent you may not walk out vertically.
4 as i said before in pp. Arm our paid national guard to deploy to schools with metal detectors.
This is a solution. Not a philosophical menagerie of aimless and pointless debates
5. Protect our children not your points of views.

[villager7591]

Reply not directed at creator of post, but more to gun-control people: Chicago has some of the most constraining gun law in the country...and they rack up more dead in a month than in this recent TX elementary school shooting. How is more gun control going to help? Criminal will continue to get the guns while law-abiding citizens will be limited or even disarmed.
*Caveat-why does no one care that Chicago has, normally, about 20+ killed every month in shootings but everyone goes ape over a mass shooting? Incongruous.

[billethkid]

Questioning the "need" for a gun or guns is just another way of avoiding discussing the real problems behind the violence of today. It is on a par with questioning the "need" for so many pairs of shoes.

And yes. You can hunt with them. My grandson shot his first deer with one, a 10-point buck.

Nicely stated in a simple to understand statement.!!
:BigApplause:

[donnamayo]

The shooter legally purchased two AR platform rifles from a federally licensed gun store. This WOULD have required a background check.

And what would have come back if a background check was done?

[Villages Kahuna]

“A .22 with an ammo clip”?

Most recent descriptions describe the AR-15 as the most destructive rifle against human flesh ever used in armed combat. A .22? Like what kids use to shoot squirrels?

[DrBrutyle109]

Maybe we should not let our children play violent video games that gives them the idea that it's ok to kill people ?
I would say it’s the PARENTS job to teach them not to kill a perdon

[spd2918]

I had police training about how to react to an "active shooter." I wish I kept my materials. I recall a high percentage of young adults who commit these crimes are actively on mental illness medication, some of which have warnings of homicidal/ suicidal idiations. Food for thought.

And I learned the first school shooting was in the 1800s. And nutballs that want soft victims go to schools and some have used knives. So do we ban those too? Or fertilizer and deisiel fuel?

[Stu from NYC]

I used to love cap pistols and firecrackers. Gone.

But, there seems to be more guns on television now than there were when I was growing up.

I dont think so. Growing up there were series on TV about war (Combat) with lots of people getting shot and blown up every week. Remember all the war movies about WW II and Korea.

Lots of cowboy and indians shows and movies with people getting killed in the hundreds.

We used to play a game with knives called land where we took a pocket knife and threw it into the ground near our feet. Dumb of course but we all did it.

How the world has changed.

[Two Bills]

The UK is NUMBER ONE in violent crimes in the World.

BS!

[Petersweeney]

Almost correct.

Hunters in Japan can have guns.

The low murder rate is culture driven, not gun control driven.

Suicide rate is sky high, culture driven

[airstreamingypsy]

And would you also like others to take away your 1st amendment right to state your opinion? Much violence is being caused by the 1st amendment fermenting anger

People need to go back to church, put God back in schools, and teach their children right from wrong. Moral values and caring for others can help stop the violence.

Whose god do you want in schools? Yours. I don't want my kid indoctrinated. Your god is banned from schools by the Constitution.

[airstreamingypsy]

An AR-15 is not a military weapon. Think of a .22 rifle with an ammo clip.

Actually, it is. "ArmaLite first developed the AR-15 in the late 1950s as a military rifle, but had limited success in selling it. In 1959 the company sold the design to Colt.

In 1963, the U.S. military selected Colt to manufacture the automatic rifle that soon became standard issue for U.S. troops in the Vietnam War. It was known as the M-16.

Armed with that success, Colt ramped up production of a semiautomatic version of the M-16 that it sold to law enforcement and the public, marketed as the AR-15."

[Topspinmo]

This country is going back to the wild west days.


Yep, 350 million plus hard core crazy killers and murderers. Now if want to come up with reasonable solutions? No semiautomatic hand guns, no semiautomatic rifles with magazines over 5 rounds or no semiautomatic rifles. No extended magazines. No guns will never happen, but limitations can work. No society is actually free so the free country argument out the window.

[spd2918]

Ted Kennedy's Oldsmobile has killed more people than all my guns combined.

[jimbomaybe]

“A .22 with an ammo clip”?

Most recent descriptions describe the AR-15 as the most destructive rifle against human flesh ever used in armed combat. A .22? Like what kids use to shoot squirrels?
Hype, my vote would be the AK47 originally chambered for 7.62X39, since then of course it has been manufactured from 223, on up

[jimbomaybe]

Yep, 350 million plus hard core crazy killers and murderers. Now if want to come up with reasonable solutions? No semiautomatic hand guns, no semiautomatic rifles with magazines over 5 rounds or no semiautomatic rifles. No extended magazines. No guns will never happen, but limitations can work. No society is actually free so the free country argument out the window.
Police /military ok , everybody else muzzleloaders

[Topspinmo]

There is no point in taking any action, this is the new normal. The only way to stop is to take away all guns but that will not happen, too many 2nd amendment lovers. Just get used to it, Sandy Hook, Las Vegas, south Fla., Colorado, Texas. Got a bunch of states it hasn't happened yet, but it will. It's old news. Not going to change.

Too many guns and too many illegal untraceable guns entering country. No guns will NEVER happen even if you outlaw them, yes it will work with law bidding citizens, but what about the other 30% or higher? Limited gun laws where can go after manufacture an dealers might work legally, but illegal trade it won’t. laws in this country are not all enforced depending on who’s in charge at moment.

[RatattacK79]

Useless analogy… go live in Japan. Tell how you feel safer there. The real problem is we (USA) abandoned mental health in the 70’s. We abandoned God, family and morality starting in the 80’s and 90’s as a society. USA will reap what it sows if we do not make some serious changes to how we raise our children and how we ignore people with mental illness.

[JeepsterGlenn]

Our congressmen consume millions of dollars of taxpayer money each year and most of them are not willing to do anything about this huge issue. If our lawmakers are not doing their job, they need to be removed in the next election.

Every resident of this country has the ability to enforce change if they are willing to vote based on actual results instead of hot air and propaganda.

This is not meant to be political as it applies to everyone. Why do you allow these politicians to get re-elected when they are not solving problems like this?

[Lindaws]

That is a start! Taking away our guns is not the answer. Society, cultural ,
mental illness etc. he was on a mission! If no gun he would have found another
weapon.

[Topspinmo]

Police /military ok , everybody else muzzleloaders

Actually I don’t want bunch of idiots with bags of black powder. Sooner or later they figure out they can make bombs 💣.

[Marine1974]

I think it’s more like any American can buy weapons that can fire 400 rounds per minute. Even the inventors of these weapons agree it is a weapon designed for Military use in combat .

[Topspinmo]

Whose god do you want in schools? Yours. I don't want my kid indoctrinated. Your god is banned from schools by the Constitution.


So is teaching off the state approved requirements. Teachers are paid to teach approved state material, not what they think should be taught. I don’t want my kids indoctrinated by teachers agenda.

[MDLNB]

“A .22 with an ammo clip”?

Most recent descriptions describe the AR-15 as the most destructive rifle against human flesh ever used in armed combat. A .22? Like what kids use to shoot squirrels?


An AR-15 does shoot a type of 22cal ammo. It just has more powder charge. It is NOT an automatic weapon, and is NOT a combat weapon. Although, I suppose ANY rifle could be used in combat. But that does not make "any" rifle an assault weapon. Most folks speak of "assault" weapons as automatic rifles. An automatic rifle fires multiple rounds when the trigger is pulled. An M-14 rifle fires a 7.62mm round or a 308cal and has the ability to fire automatic when a selector switch is installed. That was the combat rifle used in years past in our military. M-16 rifles were then utilized in jungle conditions because of the short size and the ability to carry a lot more ammo on the person, with less weight. Also the M-16, being shorter was less likely to be as bulky maneuvering in the jungle. An AR-15 is basically a semiautomatic version of the military M-16. The M-16 has the ability to fire automatically, where the M-15 can not. A Ruger Mini-14 uses the same ammo as the AR-15 and the M-16. A Remington 700 that fires 308 ammo basically fires the same ammo as the M-14. You can purchase any number of pistols that fire 9mm ammo that are not considered "assault" weapons, but an Uzi fires automatically and is considered an assault weapon by many. I am not a weapons expert, but have used a multitude of different weapons in my lifetime, some in the military, some in law enforcement and some in recreation. Muskets were considered military weapons when the Constitution was created. Are they "assault" weapons? It's all a matter of perspective. The point is that anything can be used as a weapon to destroy or a tool to protect or supply food for the table. Time to be realistic and concentrate on the cause of violence, not the means of violence.

[MDLNB]

BS!


Nope

[Scbang]

One would be foolish to believe that guns are the problem. There are kids and adults that are mentally unstable, some take medications, others seek help, some do not. If an unstable person gets a gun, whether it be legal or illegally and if they have bad intentions, how is anyone to know if they plan to do harm to others ?Criminals on the other hand carry guns with the intentions if they are cornered or interrupted during their crime they will no doubt shoot someone. Those folks that have purchased a gun legally have the intentions of protecting themselves or their love ones. Sadly we see that mass murders in US has seen more than 200 mass shootings since January.

There will always be killings as long as human species exist. The questions is how many and haw fast can one kill.

With baseball bat, knife, punching, etc..
vs. Automatic rifle, machine gun, handgun, etc..

Yes even a hunting bow can kill from a distance but not at the rate of AR-15.

If we have to have guns for hunting and ranching and other purposes, maybe it's time for license and registrations also insurance. Powerful Insurance companies might be able to do something our politicians and all of can not do.

Sadness.

[nn0wheremann]

Somehow we must bring into balance our rights under the Second (keep and bear arms) and Fourth (be secure in our persons, houses, papers, and effects) Amendments.

[PugMom]

Ted Kennedy's Oldsmobile has killed more people than all my guns combined.

:1rotfl::clap2::mademyday:

[MDLNB]

A Ruger 10/22 is a semiauto 22cal rifle that allows one to insert magazines that will hold anywhere from 10 to 50 rounds of ammo or more. Is that an assault weapon? Or, is it not used by the military so it is not considered dangerous? M-16's and AR-15's are basically 22cal rifles (223). Pellet rifles can be purchased that are fully automatic and legal. You can purchase a 22cal fully automatic pellet rifle or pistol without a background check. Do you wish to be in front of one that is being fired at you?
Like I said, people are the problem.

[MDLNB]

Somehow we must bring into balance our rights under the Second (keep and bear arms) and Fourth (be secure in our persons, houses, papers, and effects) Amendments.


The 2nd protects you against violations of the 4th.

[MartinSE]

Time to be realistic and concentrate on the cause of violence, not the means of violence.

Why not do both?

[PugMom]

Hey, Moderator! I get a warning for saying "Brandon Gas" and you let THIS POLICAL POST continue. Whatkind of rules do you run this site with? Seriously!?

am not that sure this thread walks that line. this issue involves all parties & all citizens, maybe that's why they left it open. there's some very good points here to consider--on all sides

[MartinSE]

The 2nd protects you against violations of the 4th.

It protected the children?

[fraurose]

Plus do not advertise all this on the news , just give someone else the idea how to do it !

[PugMom]

& that was one of the good points i was referring to, very effective

[MartinSE]

A Ruger 10/22 is a semiauto 22cal rifle that allows one to insert magazines that will hold anywhere from 10 to 50 rounds of ammo or more. Is that an assault weapon? Or, is it not used by the military so it is not considered dangerous? M-16's and AR-15's are basically 22cal rifles (223). Pellet rifles can be purchased that are fully automatic and legal. You can purchase a 22cal fully automatic pellet rifle or pistol without a background check. Do you wish to be in front of one that is being fired at you?
Like I said, people are the problem.

You seem to be focused on the wording, "assault weapon" while ignoring the AR15 is the most popular gun sold in America. It is also designed to "appear" like it's military counter part while meeting government regulations. And of course not least, it is the weapon of choice in most mass shootings since it's release.

So, call it what ever you like...

And, I expect if AR15s were completely 100% banned, then the people wanting to kill a lot of people quickly would simply move to another weapon, like some of those you have pointed out would be much better to use.

So, I personally have no desire to BAN all guns. I think the horse have left that barn. With close to 400 million in circulation there is no practical way to ban them. However, that doesn't mean we should do nothing. Cool down periods, ager restrictions, and other means could be used/tried. And, personally I also would like to see a Federal Law that required some minimum level of control. And if a state is found to not be enforcing that minimum level the state would be held responsible/liable for any casualties that resulted.

[ThirdOfFive]

The UK is NUMBER ONE in violent crimes in the World.
Actually, that would be Honduras, with a violent crime rate per 100,000 of 52.019. Honduras also leads the world in murder rate, by the way.

The UK is something like 157th overall, even lower in murder rate.

[MartinSE]

I had police training about how to react to an "active shooter." I wish I kept my materials. I recall a high percentage of young adults who commit these crimes are actively on mental illness medication, some of which have warnings of homicidal/ suicidal idiations. Food for thought.

And I learned the first school shooting was in the 1800s. And nutballs that want soft victims go to schools and some have used knives. So do we ban those too? Or fertilizer and deisiel fuel?

Interesting a quick search showed numbers AS HIGH AS 11% of shooters in schools exhibit serious mental health issues. Up to 20% of mass murderers.

I don't understand your point about knives, fertilizer, etc. Are you suggesting that ;since anything CAN be used as a weapon we should just do nothing? Since you are saying what doesn't work, but not making any suggestion one what to do to stop this uniquely American past time. We are the only country in the world that kills it's children for going to school.

Here is a study by MIH on mental health and mass shootings.

Mental Illness, Mass Shootings, and the Politics of American Firearms - PMC (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4318286/)

[billethkid]

There will always be killings as long as human species exist. The questions is how many and haw fast can one kill.

With baseball bat, knife, punching, etc..
vs. Automatic rifle, machine gun, handgun, etc..

Yes even a hunting bow can kill from a distance but not at the rate of AR-15.

If we have to have guns for hunting and ranching and other purposes, maybe it's time for license and registrations also insurance. Powerful Insurance companies might be able to do something our politicians and all of can not do.

Sadness.

The much available (and discussed/mis-used) model "AR-15" is not an automatic weapon!!!

It is a rifle on an AR-15 configuration.

It is one shot with one trigger pull.....shoots as fast as fast as you can repeat pulling the trigger......like most all other firearms!

[Taltarzac725]

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-law-week/sandy-hook-gun-settlement-marks-a-turning-point

This does seem to suggest that more gun manufacturers will be sued for violence done by people using their weapons especially if the company marketed the firearm in a certain way.

[MartinSE]

The UK is NUMBER ONE in violent crimes in the World.

First, this is factually wrong. It is not even in the top 10, maybe around 150th?

And second, this thread is about school shootings and school children being murdered, and GB. has not had ONE school shooting since 1996, and within months of that shooting they banned most guns and strangely - no more school shooting since then. I am NOT claiming causality, but there does seem to be correlation.

[Topspinmo]

The UK is NUMBER ONE in violent crimes in the World.

Here one way of researching that?

Most Dangerous Countries in the World 2022 (https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-dangerous-countries)

[ThirdOfFive]

Somehow we must bring into balance our rights under the Second (keep and bear arms) and Fourth (be secure in our persons, houses, papers, and effects) Amendments.
If the law cannot protect our rights under the Fourth Amendment, then the Second Amendment will.

[Trayderjoe]

IMO, the very loop that this thread has taken is why not enough progress has been made to help reduce these tragic events. Apples are not truly being compared to apples when we compare our past history with our current society, nor when we compare US against other countries. EVERYTHING is not equal and making basic comparisons ignores these differences. For example, how does the use of anti-depressants factor in? Here is a study from 2021 on "America's Epidemic Of Antidepressants" (link (https://bpr.berkeley.edu/2021/11/07/americas-epidemic-of-antidepressants/)). Were antidepressants as prevalent back then as they are now? What are the rates of anti-depressant use in other countries? What are the comparative suicide rates (US today versus the 1950's and US vs other countries)? When we were kids, we were exposed to violence as are kids of today, but WHAT IS DIFFERENT? One easy answer is that when we were kids, we socialized more (read: played) with other children whereas today a segment of the population playing violent video games are doing so online and by themselves.

Instead, how about taking the time understand how human life has become so devalued in our society? Is that too big of a challenge? Well then why don't we try to understand why CURRENT laws are not working and fix what is broken (for whatever reason) before we implement new laws? As an example from an earlier post in this thread: "But, not all somethings are useful. That is obvious, since there are lots of "somethings" being done, useless gun Carol laws that are not enforced and have too many loop holes for example." I asked: "I am curious as to which gun control laws are useless and not enforced and what the many loopholes are that make them useless." I still have not seen a response to this question, although the person who made the former statement has posted multiple times since then.

So if we are to solely focus on new "common sense" gun laws, please explain specifically what these laws would be and correlate how these new laws would have prevented these mass shootings. Given that at least twice in this thread, a statistic of "200 mass shootings have occurred this year" has been cited, I would ask that these proposed laws also be correlated to handgun usage and not just the use of a rifle. Note that I am not disputing the number since it would appear to include gangland style handgun shootings in major urban areas, but it would be helpful if the poster included a link to support the reported number and to provide context. I would also not be at all surprised if the data also shows that HANDGUNS are used more frequently than rifles in mass shooting events.

Oh, and I am looking as well for a definition of what an "assault rifle" actually is. I am not talking about the look or color of a rifle, I am talking about what function in the rifle makes it an "assault rifle". Hint: AR does NOT stand for assault rifle despite what the talking heads say, it stands for ArmaLite rifle after the company that originated the design in the 1950's.

[Taltarzac725]

Why $73 million Sandy Hook settlement is unlikely to unleash a flood of lawsuits against gun-makers (https://theconversation.com/why-73-million-sandy-hook-settlement-is-unlikely-to-unleash-a-flood-of-lawsuits-against-gun-makers-177209)

This also might be of interest.

[Scbang]

The much available (and discussed/mis-used) model "AR-15" is not an automatic weapon!!!

It is a rifle on an AR-15 configuration.

It is one shot with one trigger pull.....shoots as fast as fast as you can repeat pulling the trigger......like most all other firearms!

I did not say it's automatic. I was in the army, I know the difference with M-16.
Even with single fire trigger, it is a whole lot faster killer than a bow. That's my point.

Sadness

[spd2918]

Interesting a quick search showed numbers AS HIGH AS 11% of shooters in schools exhibit serious mental health issues. Up to 20% of mass murderers.

I don't understand your point about knives, fertilizer, etc. Are you suggesting that ;since anything CAN be used as a weapon we should just do nothing? Since you are saying what doesn't work, but not making any suggestion one what to do to stop this uniquely American past time. We are the only country in the world that kills it's children for going to school.

Here is a study by MIH on mental health and mass shootings.

Mental Illness, Mass Shootings, and the Politics of American Firearms - PMC (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4318286/)

The point i made shows you can chase your tail all day long by making guns laws and nothing will change. People who want to kill people can still do so without guns.

The press loves to celebrate school shootings for ratings and to further their political agendas. They will shove a camera into a greiving mother's face for ratings. They will rush to judgment and speculate just to stay on a hot topic. They are keen to talk about the shooter, and future shooters want that type of attention.

If the press were to report these pathetic individuals for what they are (lovers, mentally ill, socially awkward), then maybe we would have less repeaters.

[Taltarzac725]

101 California Street shooting - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/101_California_Street_shooting)

I remember writing this law firm's partners or something like that after this shooting about getting their help with bringing practical materials for survivors/victims of crimes into libraries of all kinds and they, or whoever responded back then, wrote me that they did not have the resources to do anything about the issue I raised. I think they were thinking more broadly about curbing violence done by weapons meant for soldiers in combat situations and not with my concerns about access to meaningful information for those trying to deal with fallout of these shootings.

I do see stuff in that Act below that address these concerns though.

Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violent_Crime_Control_and_Law_Enforcement_Act)

[Trayderjoe]

I think it’s more like any American can buy weapons that can fire 400 rounds per minute. Even the inventors of these weapons agree it is a weapon designed for Military use in combat .

Actually the AR rifle that is widely owned and still purchased is a semi-automatic version of the military weapon. One trigger pull equals one round of ammunition expended in the civilian version .

[MartinSE]

IMO, the very loop that this thread has taken is why not enough progress has been made to help reduce these tragic events. Apples are not truly being compared to apples when we compare our past history with our current society, nor when we compare US against other countries. EVERYTHING is not equal and making basic comparisons ignores these differences. For example, how does the use of anti-depressants factor in? Here is a study from 2021 on "America's Epidemic Of Antidepressants" (link (https://bpr.berkeley.edu/2021/11/07/americas-epidemic-of-antidepressants/)). Were antidepressants as prevalent back then as they are now? What are the rates of anti-depressant use in other countries? What are the comparative suicide rates (US today versus the 1950's and US vs other countries)? When we were kids, we were exposed to violence as are kids of today, but WHAT IS DIFFERENT? One easy answer is that when we were kids, we socialized more (read: played) with other children whereas today a segment of the population playing violent video games are doing so online and by themselves.

Instead, how about taking the time understand how human life has become so devalued in our society? Is that too big of a challenge? Well then why don't we try to understand why CURRENT laws are not working and fix what is broken (for whatever reason) before we implement new laws? As an example from an earlier post in this thread: "But, not all somethings are useful. That is obvious, since there are lots of "somethings" being done, useless gun Carol laws that are not enforced and have too many loop holes for example." I asked: "I am curious as to which gun control laws are useless and not enforced and what the many loopholes are that make them useless." I still have not seen a response to this question, although the person who made the former statement has posted multiple times since then.

So if we are to solely focus on new "common sense" gun laws, please explain specifically what these laws would be and correlate how these new laws would have prevented these mass shootings. Given that at least twice in this thread, a statistic of "200 mass shootings have occurred this year" has been cited, I would ask that these proposed laws also be correlated to handgun usage and not just the use of a rifle. Note that I am not disputing the number since it would appear to include gangland style handgun shootings in major urban areas, but it would be helpful if the poster included a link to support the reported number and to provide context. I would also not be at all surprised if the data also shows that HANDGUNS are used more frequently than rifles in mass shooting events.

Oh, and I am looking as well for a definition of what an "assault rifle" actually is. I am not talking about the look or color of a rifle, I am talking about what function in the rifle makes it an "assault rifle". Hint: AR does NOT stand for assault rifle despite what the talking heads say, it stands for ArmaLite rifle after the company that originated the design in the 1950's.

Excellent post and very informative. You even pointed out a few areas of investigation that could potentially help. You obviously are posting in the wrong forum :)

I heard an NPR interview this morning that asked many of your questions. And one answer was "common sense" gun regulation would be "in the eye of the beholder". I think that is accurate.

I push for opening a dialog on solutions. The country is obviously divided, and one side is NOT going to get what it wants - hence we do not much of anything.

And the obvious answer to your question "what is ASSAULT WEAPON", is pretty obvious. One thing one side is extremely good at is making stupid statements which the other side can then use as talking points against them. Two recent ones being defund the police and assault weapons. Both of which are coined phrases intended to elicit inflamed attitudes in the public. And neither of which accurate represent the actual situation they are addressing. If we could all stop using dog whistles, we might find there are many things we can agree on.

And once again, thank you for the excellent post that actually addressed some points in serious need of discussion.

[Oldragbagger]

My husband and I have both been retired for six years from Baltimore County Schools, but even in the last ten years of working the entire school system had instituted security measures. First, school doors were all locked after morning admission and stayed locked until dismissal. There were cameras at the door so the person seeking admission could be clearly seen before being admitted. School employees had swipe cards and one door for access throughout the school day. There was an an armed School Resource Officer who was an on duty policeman. His office was located close to the front door. All classroom doors were metal and had locks. They had a very small glass window so you could see out. We conducted drills regularly, much like fire drills. Upon hearing a code that signaled we had an armed intruder all classroom doors were locked, lights were turned out, a curtain was placed over the window, children and staff were trained to huddle against the wall at a location far away from the window and keep silent.
It is a sad state of affairs that we need such a protocol in this country, and that children should have to be taught that this might be necessary to protect their lives, but I would hope that every school in the country, no matter the size of the community, will take whatever steps necessary to protect their precious charges. There are measures that can and should be taken.

[MartinSE]

My husband and I have both been retired for six years from Baltimore County Schools, but even in the last ten years of working the entire school system had instituted security measures. First, school doors were all locked after morning admission and stayed locked until dismissal. There were cameras at the door so the person seeking admission could be clearly seen before being admitted. School employees had swipe cards and one door for access throughout the school day. There was an an armed School Resource Officer who was an on duty policeman. His office was located close to the front door. All classroom doors were metal and had locks. They had a very small glass window so you could see out. We conducted drills regularly, much like fire drills. Upon hearing a code that signaled we had an armed intruder all classroom doors were locked, lights were turned out, a curtain was placed over the window, children and staff were trained to huddle against the wall at a location far away from the window and keep silent.
It is a sad state of affairs that we need such a protocol in this country, and that children should have to be taught that this might be necessary to protect their lives, but I would hope that every school in the country, no matter the size of the community, will take whatever steps necessary to protect their precious charges. There are measures that can and should be taken.

Whaat you describe is mitigation and every school should implement it until a solution is found. And I 100% agree it is extremely sad.

And, look back over this thread, and ANY thread any where in this country that touches on guns and I think you will find the majority of posts don't offer ANY solutions or even suggestions of solutions, or even calls for cooperation on finding solutions. They simply want to pound their chests about rights.

[DonnaNi4os]

19 innocent children, 2 dedicated teachers, lives lost, solution????? More guns, bigger prisons, NOT. Japan, no guns unless police and military, murder rate .3 percent per 100,000, America, 4.7 per 100,000. Mental health wake up call.

So many excuses for the shooters…bullied, unstable home life. Stop showing these monsters faces on tv. Stop making excuses. These deranged people want their moment in the light even if they die in the process. They are mentally ill, maybe; they are evil for certain. They are cowardly, deranged, evil murderers. Enough. We pray for the families, we cry with them and then our life goes on. Our anger diminishes and then it happens again and again. There have been 14 mass school shooting since Columbine and countless other mass shootings. Enough already. The government needs to start spending money on keeping the schools secure. How does anyone just walk into a school and start shooting?

[Indydealmaker]

The Wild West had vigorous gun regulation in the towns and mass slaughters of civilians the likes of which we see so often did not happen.

Do you remember how horrified everyone was by Columbine in 1999. It had never happened before. In the last 22 years there have now been 13 mass school killings, defined as 3 or more deaths in a single incident.

Thoughts and prayers are not working.

However, better parenting by 2 parents would work.

[spd2918]

Please, please, please, separate US inner city gun deaths from the rest of the country when quoting US stats. What happens there does not represent the US as a whole.

[spd2918]

History of School Shootings in the United States | K12 Academics (https://www.k12academics.com/school-shootings/history-school-shootings-united-states)

The first US school shooting was on July 26th, 1764 (yes, we were a British colony at the time).

[ThirdOfFive]

You seem to be focused on the wording, "assault weapon" while ignoring the AR15 is the most popular gun sold in America. It is also designed to "appear" like it's military counter part while meeting government regulations. And of course not least, it is the weapon of choice in most mass shootings since it's release.

So, call it what ever you like...

And, I expect if AR15s were completely 100% banned, then the people wanting to kill a lot of people quickly would simply move to another weapon, like some of those you have pointed out would be much better to use.

So, I personally have no desire to BAN all guns. I think the horse have left that barn. With close to 400 million in circulation there is no practical way to ban them. However, that doesn't mean we should do nothing. Cool down periods, ager restrictions, and other means could be used/tried. And, personally I also would like to see a Federal Law that required some minimum level of control. And if a state is found to not be enforcing that minimum level the state would be held responsible/liable for any casualties that resulted.
One of the correlations that seems pop up in these debates (and I've been part of many) is that the lower the knowledge level, the higher the emotion. The post to which I'm referring makes this point very well. The rifle this Texas nutcase used wasn't an AR-15. It was an AR-15 STYLE rifle, specifically the Model DDM4 V7 rifle made by Daniel Defense of Georgia. Many companies are making these look-alikes since the original Colt patent expired I believe in the late 1970's. There are even BB guns made in this "style". But the term "AR-15" has taken on a sinister connotation and is thus used at every opportunity, even though the weapon isn't an AR-15.

The other overused term is "assault weapon". I had a client once who did some time for assault with a deadly weapon. His "assault weapon" of choice? A table leg, which he ripped off the dining room table and used it to chase some people out the door and down the street. Fortunately they were faster than he was so no harm done, other than of course to the table. An assault weapon, under the law, can be ANYTHING--but of course the term has also taken on a sinister connotation and as such is employed at every opportunity.

Progress will only be made when reason replaces emotion. But more and more, it seems like the opposite is true, not just in this particular debate.

[spd2918]

The Dunblane massacre took place at Dunblane Primary School near Stirling, Scotland, United Kingdom, on 13 March 1996, when Thomas Hamilton shot dead sixteen pupils and one teacher, and injured fifteen others, before killing himself. It remains the deadliest mass shooting in British history.

Dunblane massacre - Wikipedia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_massacre)

[ThirdOfFive]

The point i made shows you can chase your tail all day long by making guns laws and nothing will change. People who want to kill people can still do so without guns.

The press loves to celebrate school shootings for ratings and to further their political agendas. They will shove a camera into a greiving mother's face for ratings. They will rush to judgment and speculate just to stay on a hot topic. They are keen to talk about the shooter, and future shooters want that type of attention.

If the press were to report these pathetic individuals for what they are (lovers, mentally ill, socially awkward), then maybe we would have less repeaters.
Yep--and the ironic thing is all this hysteria on the part of media results in two things: copycat crimes and a huge spike in gun sales.

[KAM+6]

The problem is not the gun, the problem is single parent households . The decline of the family unit in not married shacking up and producing babies , pretending to be legitimate, women being left to raise children .Compare Chicago, most gun control in the country ,worst gun violence in the country. Massachusetts no gun permit required ,safest state for gun violence. Politicians scream to repeal allowing gun ownership, Nonsense ! Hold parents responsible for their childrens behavior, period.

Wrong, wrong, Massachusetts has a very strict gun permit law. In fact, it is very difficult to get a gun permit. Why does anyone need a machine gun. They should not be sold to the public.

[spd2918]

Dec. 7, 1999. Veghel, Netherlands

One teacher and three students wounded by a 17-year-old student.

[spd2918]

Mar. 2000 Branneburg, Germany

One teacher killed by a 15-year-old student, who then shot himself. The shooter has been in a coma ever since.

[spd2918]

Jan. 18, 2001 Jan, Sweden

One student killed by two boys, ages 17 and 19

[Stu from NYC]

One of the correlations that seems pop up in these debates (and I've been part of many) is that the lower the knowledge level, the higher the emotion. The post to which I'm referring makes this point very well. The rifle this Texas nutcase used wasn't an AR-15. It was an AR-15 STYLE rifle, specifically the Model DDM4 V7 rifle made by Daniel Defense of Georgia. Many companies are making these look-alikes since the original Colt patent expired I believe in the late 1970's. There are even BB guns made in this "style". But the term "AR-15" has taken on a sinister connotation and is thus used at every opportunity, even though the weapon isn't an AR-15.

The other overused term is "assault weapon". I had a client once who did some time for assault with a deadly weapon. His "assault weapon" of choice? A table leg, which he ripped off the dining room table and used it to chase some people out the door and down the street. Fortunately they were faster than he was so no harm done, other than of course to the table. An assault weapon, under the law, can be ANYTHING--but of course the term has also taken on a sinister connotation and as such is employed at every opportunity.

Wow an assault weapon can be a table leg. Who would have thought.

Wish our govt would actually enforce the laws already on the books and do more to promote mental health.

[spd2918]

Feb. 19, 2002 Freising, Germany

Two killed in Eching by a man at the factory from which he had been fired; he then traveled to Freising and killed the headmaster of the technical school from which he had been expelled. He also wounded another teacher before killing himself.

[spd2918]

Apr. 26, 2002 Erfurt, Germany

13 teachers, two students, and one policeman killed, ten wounded by Robert Steinhaeuser, 19, at the Johann Gutenberg secondary school. Steinhaeuser then killed himself.

[spd2918]

Apr. 29, 2002 Vlasenica, Bosnia-Herzegovina

One teacher killed, one wounded by Dragoslav Petkovic, 17, who then killed himself.

[spd2918]

Sept. 28, 2004 Carmen de Patagones, Argentina

Three students killed and 6 wounded by a 15-year-old Argentininan student in a town 620 miles south of Buenos Aires.

[spd2918]

Sept. 13, 2006 Montreal, Canada

Kimveer Gill, 25, opened fire with a semiautomatic weapon at Dawson College. Anastasia De Sousa, 18, died and more than a dozen students and faculty were wounded before Gill killed himself.

[spd2918]

Nov. 7, 2007 Tuusula, Finland

An 18-year-old student in southern Finland shot and killed five boys, two girls, and the female principal at Jokela High School. At least 10 others were injured. The gunman shot himself and died from his wounds in the hospital.

[spd2918]

Sept. 23, 2008 Kauhajoki, Finland

A 20-year-old male student shot and killed at least nine students and himself at a vocational college in Kauhajok, 330km (205 miles) north of the capital, Helsinki.

[spd2918]

Mar. 11, 2009 Winnenden, Germany
Fifteen people were shot and killed at Albertville Technical High School in southwestern Germany by a 17-year-old boy who attended the same school.

[spd2918]

Apr. 30, 2009 Azerbaijan, Baku

A Georgian citizen of Azerbaijani descent killed 12 students and staff at Azerbaijan State Oil Academy. Several others were wounded.

[spd2918]

Apr. 7, 2011 Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
A 23-year-old former student returned to his public elementary school in Rio de Janeiro and began firing, killing 12 children and seriously wounding more than a dozen others, before shooting himself in the head. While Brazil has seen gang-related violence in urban areas, this was the worst school shooting the country has ever seen

[spd2918]

July 22, 2011 Tyrifjorden, Buskerud, Norway

A gunman disguised as a policeman opened fire at a camp for young political activists on the island of Utoya. The gunman kills 68 campers, including personal friends of Prime Minister Stoltenberg. Police arrested Anders Behring Breivik, a 32-year-old Norwegian who had been been linked to an anti-Islamic group.

[spd2918]

Mar. 19, 2012 Toulouse, France
Mohammed Merah, a French man of Algerian descent, shot and killed a rabbi, two of his children, and another child at a Jewish school. Police believe he had earlier shot and killed three paratroopers. Merah said he was a member of Al Qaeda and that he was seeking revenge for the killing of Palestinian children.

[spd2918]

Jan. 7, 2015 Paris, Franc

Three masked gunmen storm the office of Charlie Hebdo, a satirical weekly magazine, and kill 12 people, including the paper's top editors and cartoonists, as well as two police officers. The provocative magazine is known for publishing charged cartoons that satirized Islamic terrorists and the Prophet Muhammad.

[spd2918]

Jan. 15, 2017 Monterrey, Nuevo Len, Mexico

A student at Colegio Americano del Noreste, brought a handgun to class and shot several classmates and himself. The high school had not yet implemented security measures that became widespread in Mexico in the prior decade.

[MartinSE]

Jan. 15, 2017 Monterrey, Nuevo Len, Mexico

A student at Colegio Americano del Noreste, brought a handgun to class and shot several classmates and himself. The high school had not yet implemented security measures that became widespread in Mexico in the prior decade.

Lets see, in your examples one country had 2 in the past couple decades - that would be France. We have had 27 so far this year. And the year is not half way over.

There are always exceptions, and nothing is perfect.

To compare to your list over the past decades, here is a list of school shootings in the US since 2000 (it provides a link to shooting prior to that)

List of school shootings in the United States - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States)

[spd2918]

Jan. 29, 2017 Quebec, Canada

Alexandre Bissonnette, a Quebecois man who publicly expressed anti-Muslim sentiments, attacked the Islamic Cultural Centre of Quebec, where he killed six and injured nineteen who were attending prayer.

[PurePeach]

Successful lawsuits against gun manufacturers might get some changes like those the tobacco companies underwent decades ago.
Guns don’t kill unless a person pulls the trigger. Guns aren’t a carcinogen like tobacco. These kinds of things are products of perhaps too many violent video games, lack of proper parenting (instilling values and morals), lax or no punishment for crimes, and I could go on and on. My parents would have whipped me until I couldn’t stand up if I’d acted like some of these kids do these days. Parents just don’t discipline because they are a generation who didn’t get disciplined either.

[spd2918]

Oct. 20, 2017 Goinia, Gois, Brazil

An unidentified student brought a pistol to class, killing two and injuring four. The shooter attempted suicide before being talked down by a teacher. He claimed inspiration from Columbine and the Realengo shooting.

[spd2918]

Oct. 17, 2018 Kerch, Crimea

A student at Kerch Polytechnic College, Vladislav Roslyakov, brought a shotgun and 150 rounds to his college, where he proceeded to kill 20 students and staff and wound 70. Vladislav was an avowed fan of Columbine shooters Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris, participating in several online fan communities.

[spd2918]

Mar. 13, 2019 Suzano, Brazil

Two former students of the Professor Raul Brasil State School, Guilherme Taucci Monteiro and Luiz Henrique de Castro, went to the school and opened fire. They killed five students, two teachers, and themselves, as well as wounding eleven. They killed Monteiro's uncle prior to attacking the school.

[spd2918]

Mar. 15, 2019 Christchurch, New Zealand

Brenton Tarrant, a reported white supremacist who publicly espoused anti-Muslim sentiments, attacked two mosques. He killed 51 and wounded 49. Tarrant awaits trial, which will likely begin in 2020.

[spd2918]

September 20, 2021 Perm, Russia

18-year-old shooter Timur Bekmansurov brought a shotgun to Perm State University in the city of Perm, where he killed 6 and wounded 43. Statements from the shooter and public investigation revealed no terrorist connections, and no clear political or religious motivation.

[GATORBILL66]

Guns don't kill people, people kill people. We need tougher penalties for all crimes including the death penalty for murder,

[Madelaine Amee]

I am not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but the NRA meeting being held in Orlando this week (I believe) is a GUN FREE ZONE

So why do you think that might be? If they believe guns are safe and everyone should have one, why not at their annual parade?

[spd2918]

The above are just mass shootings from 1996 to 2021. We can see this happens in other countries, some with VERY strict gun laws.

Let's not pretend taking guns from law abiding citizens will change what terrorists, criminals, or nutjobs do.

At least in the US there is a good chance a good guy will stop the violence with his own firearm. Like the Border Patrol Agent did in Texas.

[spd2918]

I am not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but the NRA meeting being held in Orlando this week (I believe) is a GUN FREE ZONE

So why do you think that might be? If they believe guns are safe and everyone should have one, why not at their annual parade?

I would like to see your source for this. Mi e came from Timeline of Worldwide School and Mass Shootings (https://www.infoplease.com/us/crime/timeline-of-worldwide-school-and-mass-shootings)

Rules at the venue or for insurance.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Almost correct.

Hunters in Japan can have guns.

The low murder rate is culture driven, not gun control driven.

Exactly. That along with the sad state of our mental health system and the HIPPAA laws that prevent agencies from being informed of people with mental illness.

[Madelaine Amee]

The above are just mass shootings from 1996 to 2021. We can see this happens in other countries, some with VERY strict gun laws.

Let's not pretend taking guns from law abiding citizens will change what terrorists, criminals, or nutjobs do.

At least in the US there is a good chance a good guy will stop the violence with his own firearm. Like the Border Patrol Agent did in Texas.

Just take the assault weapons, nobody wants the guns from law-abiding citizens. By the way, you have way too much time on your hands - takes a long time to do this much research.

[jebartle]

Guns don't kill people, people kill people. We need tougher penalties for all crimes including the death penalty for murder,

Hear this quote frequently, just wondering if the GUN was not readily available, and time was given to the mad person, would mass killing happen, maybe not.

[Worldseries27]

A hypothetical president of america could
1. Summon all the governors of all 50 states to a conference proposing to pass legislation to subsidize their armed national guards to protect the school children employing metal detectors and other technology.
2. He could issue executive orders to make it so.
So why not?

[Trayderjoe]

I am not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but the NRA meeting being held in Orlando this week (I believe) is a GUN FREE ZONE

So why do you think that might be? If they believe guns are safe and everyone should have one, why not at their annual parade?

Assuming this to be true, the venue could choose to make the area a gun free zone. While there are specific areas in which guns are prohibited by law (federal buildings-even the parking lot of the post office, schools, etc.), any business can choose to make their area "gun free". By the by, most (I am hesitant to say all without the facts) gun retailers require any handgun or rifle to be unloaded and encased before entering their business.

[Sarah_W]

Assuming this to be true, the venue could choose to make the area a gun free zone. While there are specific areas in which guns are prohibited by law (federal buildings-even the parking lot of the post office, schools, etc.), any business can choose to make their area "gun free". By the by, most (I am hesitant to say all without the facts) gun retailers require any handgun or rifle to be unloaded and encased before entering their business.

I believe the reason it is a gun free zone is due to a Secret Service requirement since Trump will be speaking. I think all venues where current and former Presidents speak are gun free zones. I've been to NRA events in the past and was not required to leave my firearm or have it unloaded.

As to gun stores, the policies vary. Some allow you have have your loaded firearm on your person if you have a CCW permit. Others don't allow them to be uncased and require them to be unloaded and still others have no requirement at all.

[Taltarzac725]

Federal Assault Weapons Ban - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban)

This law expired quite a ways back.

Found this interesting--

Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giffords_Law_Center_to_Prevent_Gun_Violence)

[Trayderjoe]

Just take the assault weapons, nobody wants the guns from law-abiding citizens. By the way, you have way too much time on your hands - takes a long time to do this much research.

Again, what are assault weapons? What makes them an "assault weapon"? Are you aware that an AR style rifle and a semi-automatic handgun have the same rate of fire (i.e. one trigger pull equals one round of ammunition expended)?

So which guns do you want to confiscate from law abiding citizens? Are we now including semi-automatic handguns as banned weapons (data also shows handguns are used FAR more frequently in "mass shooting" events). Are you willing to ban bodyguards from carrying these guns, or do richer people have the right to protection that people in lower income levels can't afford? What will be the penalty for people who possess these "banned guns" and will the penalties be applied absolutely? If we can apply these new laws absolutely, then what will be changed, since many current laws are falling by the wayside? Why was Darrell Brooks allowed to remain on the streets? If you don't remember him, he was the person arrested for the Waukesha Christmas Parade tragedy (link (https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/waukesha-christmas-parade-darrell-brooks/)). Is it remotely possible that if offenders like these find themselves in jail and not kicked back on the streets before the paperwork is done, there might be a decrease in violent crime? Since criminals don't seem to care about current laws, who do you think that new laws will impact the most, law abiding citizens or criminals?

[Trayderjoe]

I believe the reason it is a gun free zone is due to a Secret Service requirement since Trump will be speaking. I think all venues where current and former Presidents speak are gun free zones. I've been to NRA events in the past and was not required to leave my firearm or have it unloaded.

As to gun stores, the policies vary. Some allow you have have your loaded firearm on your person if you have a CCW permit. Others don't allow them to be uncased and require them to be unloaded and still others have no requirement at all.

Thank you. I forgot that President Trump will be there, so that in and of itself would be a reason for the gun ban as you indicated. Of course, the venue can make that designation as well. On a side note, I have seen a doctor's office with a posting on the doors that firearms were prohibited.

[Taltarzac725]

What is a '''Red Flag law'''—a hope for bipartisan reform on gun control | Fortune (https://fortune.com/2022/05/26/what-is-red-flag-law-us-gun-control-laws-reform-states/)

This is being discussed right now.

A red-flag law is shorthand for a type of gun legislation that grants law enforcement the authority to temporarily take guns away from someone who exhibits concerning behavior. That red-flag behavior could include a known gun owner issuing specific threats to do harm or demonstrating signs of suffering serious mental illness.

[MollyJo]

Almost correct.

Hunters in Japan can have guns.

The low murder rate is culture driven, not gun control driven.
Right. They will not dishonor their families. The life lessons begin at birth…

[jswirs]

If you can list for me the number of "whack jobs" that used a car to mow down 8-10 year old kids that numbers more than 0, I will consider your argument. Schools have become the target for "whack jobs" over the last 10 years.

In this case an 18 year old with no prior mental health issues buys 2 Assault Rifles with high capacity magazines LEGALLY. Can anyone explain to me what 18 year old has a need for such guns?

Now we hear Texas saying that they are going to commit more money for mental health (I guess for the survivors?) and are going to "harden their schools" by allowing Teachers to have guns. I guess this means teachers will be allowed to have an AR-15 tucked between their legs since these attacks typically happen with high capacity magazines and sometimes even some body armor. Does that really sound like it makes sense? It wasn't long ago that the push was on for Armed Guards in every school district. I guess once the noise settled down, they realized there wasn't enough money to do that.

Does Social Media play a part--absolutely. Does mental health play a part-absolutely. Does the easy access to high powered, high capacity guns play a part-ABSOLUTELY. Had this kid just had rifle used for hunting, he could not have killed as many 10 year olds, if any.

This is a multi faceted problem that requires tackling ALL of those issues together, a little at a time, but fixing any 1 of them will not do it.
But you did not mention who plays the most important part... PARENTS.

[Bellavita]

Do you support background checks or just let anyone anytime get a gun like an AK 30 round clip?


There was a study done a few years back regarding incidents such as this. I don't recall the methodology used but the conclusion was that well over HALF of such crimes are "copycat". And with the endless and exhaustive "coverage", which often tends toward the maudlin or even the hysterical, it is easy to see how it could influence some person not all that solid mentally, to try to imitate it or even do it one (or more) better.

There is another effect of such coverage, one that has been proven innumerable times. Every such incident is accompanied by an endless parade of officials calling for increased gun control. They, too, tend toward the maudlin or the hysterical. But the EFFECT is that such overdramatization is a direct cause of vastly increased gun sales. In 2021 alone, something like 43 MILLION new guns were sold to private citizens in America.

Maybe its time for a little common sense. Hysteria just doesn't seem to work all that well.

[Sarah_W]

Do you support background checks or just let anyone anytime get a gun like an AK 30 round clip?

An "AK 30 round clip" is not a gun, so the question is impossible to answer.

[spd2918]

Just take the assault weapons, nobody wants the guns from law-abiding citizens. By the way, you have way too much time on your hands - takes a long time to do this much research.

The problem is the controlling political class will call everything an assault weapon. A real assault weapon is a machine gun (fully automatic) and I'm probably correct in saying no US school shooting involved one. I own an AR15 derivative. It is not full auto. It is difficult to own a full auto assault weapon. Special rules apply very few people have them.

I didn't do much research. I did, however, looked some things up and did not knee jerk agree with what our horrible mass media pumps out. Our news is trash- do your own research and use multiple sources.

[Sarah_W]

School shootings seem to have two components..... The first is a weird kid who has been bullied. The second is semi automatic AR-15s, the mass shooters'' weapon of choice. Both those things are almost always present.

Schools have to pay more attention to bullying...... parents have to watch for signs that their kid is being bullied too, and parents need to teach their kids not to bully other kids.

As for the AR-15s..... this country is so obsessed with guns, and misinterpreting the 2nd amendment, I guess thoughts and prayers is the only action that will be taken.

Mr. "Know it all" as usual. Your opinion. Not based by logic or reason. We live in a country where there are more guns than people. More guns than motor vehicles. Second Amendment stated regulated militia but this country's guns are not regulated. No one needs an AR 15 assault weapon unless you are in the military at war. Your "two cents" is now worth less than a penny!

Full disclosure: I am a hunter and grew up in a hunting family. I am a competition shooter, competing in speed pistol and precision rifle. I am a certified firearms instructor and co-founder of US Womens Shooting Academy. I know a lot about firearms. Lastly, I speak publicly on the Constitution as well as the 2nd Amendment.

I mean no disrespect regarding the two posts I highlighted above. There were several to choose from that are factually inaccurate and typify much of the rhetoric today. The majority of people screaming for more gun control are not knowledgeable about firearms.

The fact of the matter is, the AR-15 is not the weapon of choice for school shooters. The handgun is used 10 times more often. As a general note, it doesn't even rank in the top ten for weapons of straight out murder. AR style rifles account for an average of 17 murders over the past ten years. Blunt objects such as hammers and bats are used more often. The common denominator with school shooters are they are individuals who have been traumatized, bullied, marginalized, etc.



Some people believe AR stands for Assault Rifle. It does not. The AR line of firearms were manufactured by Armalite Rifles.
The AR has been around since the 1950's. Today it is popular with hunters and sport shooters alike. The AR does seem to frighten people who don't know anything about guns, whereas the Ruger Mini 14 Ranch Rifle doesn't bother them. The fact is, they both fire the .223/5.56 round with the same capacity magazines, at the same rate of fire which is one round for one trigger pull. The AR is a scary black rifle and the Ruger looks like Grandpa's pickup gun in his gun rack.

The second quoted post above calls the AR and assault weapon and considers it a weapon of war. Neither is true. The military version of the civilian AR is the M-16, a fully automatic rifle. The AR is not fully automatic. Nobody has a definition of assault rifle. It is a term used to frighten people. Never has the US soldier carried an AR-15 into battle. Our soldiers carry the M-16, among others.

The problem is not just that the average citizens doesn't know the facts, the problem is even bigger because many of our politicians don't know the facts, or conveniently twist the facts to suit their agenda and that is a bigger problem still. In my opinion, Legislators should have mandatory education on the important issues they draft laws to govern. Within the United States we have over 300,000 laws related to firearms. As noted, many are not enforced. That is a huge problem. Fun fact: Nobody knows how many laws there are in total in the US. That seems like a system out of control.

It is disturbing to me how little the average American knows about our freedom documents and the reasons our Founding Fathers created this Constitutional Republic of the people and for the people. In my personal library I have over 70 books on this subject. The oldest printed in 1785, Samuel Johnson's Dictionary. The very dictionary our Founding Fathers used to write the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

Addressing the second quoted post above I'll limit this to the 2nd Amendment. There is history to the Bill of Rights but I'll save that for another discussion. We shall use the text as it currently appears.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

The second quoted post above erroneously connects some imaginary dots that the guns of the militia should be regulated and our country does not regulate guns. Both assertions are false. First, there are many regulations on guns, at the Federal and State levels. The CZ Shadow 9mm handgun is one of my favorites. Try buying one in California. Hint: You can't buy a new CZ Shadow 2 because it is not on CA "approved roster of handguns".

Let's break down the second amendment. "A well regulated militia"...the definition of a militia in 1787 "the part of the community trained to martial exercise." The militia should be well regulated. The definition of "regulate" was to "direct". Therefore, another way of saying the first portion is "A well directed part of the community trained to martial exercise". The definition of "martial" is "war like".

"Being necessary for the security of a free State". This portion is very basic. There were 13 states at the time of the writing of our Constitution. The very much valued their freedom and intended to retain the freedom they fought 8 bloody years for.

"The right of the People to keep and bear Arms". So many on the left of center seem to not understand this. What is the Right? To keep and bear arms. To keep Arms means to hold and keep in custody. To bear arms means to carry arms. Who owns that Right? The People, not the State and not the militia as an entity, but the People. Arms means armaments as in armor for defense and weapons for offense.

"Shall not be infringed". Infringe means to violate, to destroy, to hinder.

Our Founding Fathers feared and did not favor a standing army. They had just won their independence fighting the British Regulars, the standing army of Britain. When the British moved to disarm the Americans on April 19, 1775 at Lexington and Concord, it was not George Washington's army who met them. It was the militias of that area. Bakers, farmers, blacksmiths, shop keepers, etc. stood firm against the most feared military of their time and refused to surrender their weapons.

Today our media demonizes the word militia. it is easy to understand why. The American citizen is actually the largest armed force in the world. There are many who wish to destroy that. It begins with undermining our Rights, infringing on our Rights, and taking away our Rights.


To the school shootings and other mass shootings. Prior to the internet, mass shootings were very rare. It would be interesting to track the rise of social media and the rise of mass shootings. Young people have been kept isolated for the past two years due to a disease that is 99.6% survivable. Young people spent and inordinate amount of time on social media platforms. Touching another human being is being replaced with keypads. Looking another human being in the eye and reading their body language as been replaced by a monitor. Netflix is full of violent movies and rarely post up a comedy or romance. Take a young man, bully him online, keep him isolated so he doesn't know his self worth, fail to instill morals and then let him binge watch John Wick movies and play hour upon hour of Call of Duty. The outcome is predictable. There will be more mass killings by mentally ill people. We are doing nothing to identify them and treat them. Many want to blame the instrument instead of the societal failings of our culture. The list of reasons for killing someone or many is actually a pretty short list. Mass shooters are particularly mentally ill. I suspect in their mind being famous or infamous is one in the same. Their name will be known. I will say that predators do measure Risk versus Reward. It should come as no surprise that they choose Gun Free Zones to inflict as much carnage as they can before they are stopped.

Note: I had plenty of links for citations I listed above, but being a new poster here it would not post.

[jswirs]

If you can list for me the number of "whack jobs" that used a car to mow down 8-10 year old kids that numbers more than 0, I will consider your argument. Schools have become the target for "whack jobs" over the last 10 years.

In this case an 18 year old with no prior mental health issues buys 2 Assault Rifles with high capacity magazines LEGALLY. Can anyone explain to me what 18 year old has a need for such guns?

Now we hear Texas saying that they are going to commit more money for mental health (I guess for the survivors?) and are going to "harden their schools" by allowing Teachers to have guns. I guess this means teachers will be allowed to have an AR-15 tucked between their legs since these attacks typically happen with high capacity magazines and sometimes even some body armor. Does that really sound like it makes sense? It wasn't long ago that the push was on for Armed Guards in every school district. I guess once the noise settled down, they realized there wasn't enough money to do that.

Does Social Media play a part--absolutely. Does mental health play a part-absolutely. Does the easy access to high powered, high capacity guns play a part-ABSOLUTELY. Had this kid just had rifle used for hunting, he could not have killed as many 10 year olds, if any.

This is a multi faceted problem that requires tackling ALL of those issues together, a little at a time, but fixing any 1 of them will not do it.

Littleton shooters lived with both parents

Ok, but does that mean the parents did their due diligence with these children? Did the parents get involved with the children's school, and have the kids get involved with sports, etc., and did the children feel loved? Just because children live with both parents does not mean those parents were involved enough in their children's lives to make a difference.

[Keefelane66]

As events unfold seems that even with a SCHOOL RESOURCE OFFICER FAILURE TO CONFRONT and try to stop Murderer Local Sheriff's we're ineffective and needed to wait between 40 to 60 minutes for a tactical unit from Border Patrol to confront and take down, MURDERER. Families arrived a school before Tactical units arrived!

[Two Bills]

Nope

Double BS.

Total nonsense.
UK is way down the list on world crime, and last school shooting was 1996.
Then guns were banned.
Gun crime now is mainly drug gangs killing each other, which as far as majority of population is concerned, save a lot of money on paperwork, and feeding them in prison.

[Keefelane66]

Thank you. I forgot that President Trump will be there, so that in and of itself would be a reason for the gun ban as you indicated. Of course, the venue can make that designation as well. On a side note, I have seen a doctor's office with a posting on the doors that firearms were prohibited.
Weapons are PROHIBITED at all NRA CONVENTIONS!

[Caymus]

As events unfold seems that even with a SCHOOL RESOURCE OFFICER FAILURE TO CONFRONT and try to stop Murderer Local Sheriff's we're ineffective and needed to wait between 40 to 60 minutes for a tactical unit from Border Patrol to confront and take down, MURDERER. Families arrived a school before Tactical units arrived!

I wondered why the Border Patrol was involved.

[ThirdOfFive]

I am not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but the NRA meeting being held in Orlando this week (I believe) is a GUN FREE ZONE

So why do you think that might be? If they believe guns are safe and everyone should have one, why not at their annual parade?

I'm pretty sure it is not because the NRA people might be carrying but because of the possibility of anti-gun crazies disrupting things. There are some pretty fringy people in Orlando.

I've attended several pro-Second Amendment rallies. One in particular that I recall was held on the grounds of the State Capitol Building in St. Paul, Minnesota. It was sponsored and organized by the NRA, which also had several display booths. It was attended by about 3,000 pro-Second Amendment folks, and most of us were armed. Many openly (open carry is legal in Minnesota). There were some pretty well-known dignitaries present as well: a Congressman and several Minnesota State Legislative members.

Oh--and there were cops there too. Four in total. Three of them, Minnesota State Troopers, were stationed on the sidewalk ringing the rally, facing AWAY from it, on the watch for demonstrators (who never showed up). The fourth, a uniformed St. Paul cop, was present with the attendees, but he was spending his time chatting, looking at exhibits, and generally having as good a time as the rest of us.

The cops knew where the danger was, and it wasn't from the 3,000 or so armed rally attendees but from the nutjobs who might try to disrupt things. My guess it is the same in Orlando.

[Taltarzac725]

Probably patients with this you would not want having access to any kind of firearm. Quite a Red Flag situation.

Capgras delusion - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capgras_delusion)

[jswirs]

Full disclosure: I am a hunter and grew up in a hunting family. I am a competition shooter, competing in speed pistol and precision rifle. I am a certified firearms instructor and co-founder of US Womens Shooting Academy. I know a lot about firearms. Lastly, I speak publicly on the Constitution as well as the 2nd Amendment.

I mean no disrespect regarding the two posts I highlighted above. There were several to choose from that are factually inaccurate and typify much of the rhetoric today. The majority of people screaming for more gun control are not knowledgeable about firearms.

The fact of the matter is, the AR-15 is not the weapon of choice for school shooters. The handgun is used 10 times more often. As a general note, it doesn't even rank in the top ten for weapons of straight out murder. AR style rifles account for an average of 17 murders over the past ten years. Blunt objects such as hammers and bats are used more often. The common denominator with school shooters are they are individuals who have been traumatized, bullied, marginalized, etc.



Some people believe AR stands for Assault Rifle. It does not. The AR line of firearms were manufactured by Armalite Rifles.
The AR has been around since the 1950's. Today it is popular with hunters and sport shooters alike. The AR does seem to frighten people who don't know anything about guns, whereas the Ruger Mini 14 Ranch Rifle doesn't bother them. The fact is, they both fire the .223/5.56 round with the same capacity magazines, at the same rate of fire which is one round for one trigger pull. The AR is a scary black rifle and the Ruger looks like Grandpa's pickup gun in his gun rack.

The second quoted post above calls the AR and assault weapon and considers it a weapon of war. Neither is true. The military version of the civilian AR is the M-16, a fully automatic rifle. The AR is not fully automatic. Nobody has a definition of assault rifle. It is a term used to frighten people. Never has the US soldier carried an AR-15 into battle. Our soldiers carry the M-16, among others.

The problem is not just that the average citizens doesn't know the facts, the problem is even bigger because many of our politicians don't know the facts, or conveniently twist the facts to suit their agenda and that is a bigger problem still. In my opinion, Legislators should have mandatory education on the important issues they draft laws to govern. Within the United States we have over 300,000 laws related to firearms. As noted, many are not enforced. That is a huge problem. Fun fact: Nobody knows how many laws there are in total in the US. That seems like a system out of control.

It is disturbing to me how little the average American knows about our freedom documents and the reasons our Founding Fathers created this Constitutional Republic of the people and for the people. In my personal library I have over 70 books on this subject. The oldest printed in 1785, Samuel Johnson's Dictionary. The very dictionary our Founding Fathers used to write the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

Addressing the second quoted post above I'll limit this to the 2nd Amendment. There is history to the Bill of Rights but I'll save that for another discussion. We shall use the text as it currently appears.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

The second quoted post above erroneously connects some imaginary dots that the guns of the militia should be regulated and our country does not regulate guns. Both assertions are false. First, there are many regulations on guns, at the Federal and State levels. The CZ Shadow 9mm handgun is one of my favorites. Try buying one in California. Hint: You can't buy a new CZ Shadow 2 because it is not on CA "approved roster of handguns".

Let's break down the second amendment. "A well regulated militia"...the definition of a militia in 1787 "the part of the community trained to martial exercise." The militia should be well regulated. The definition of "regulate" was to "direct". Therefore, another way of saying the first portion is "A well directed part of the community trained to martial exercise". The definition of "martial" is "war like".

"Being necessary for the security of a free State". This portion is very basic. There were 13 states at the time of the writing of our Constitution. The very much valued their freedom and intended to retain the freedom they fought 8 bloody years for.

"The right of the People to keep and bear Arms". So many on the left of center seem to not understand this. What is the Right? To keep and bear arms. To keep Arms means to hold and keep in custody. To bear arms means to carry arms. Who owns that Right? The People, not the State and not the militia as an entity, but the People. Arms means armaments as in armor for defense and weapons for offense.

"Shall not be infringed". Infringe means to violate, to destroy, to hinder.

Our Founding Fathers feared and did not favor a standing army. They had just won their independence fighting the British Regulars, the standing army of Britain. When the British moved to disarm the Americans on April 19, 1775 at Lexington and Concord, it was not George Washington's army who met them. It was the militias of that area. Bakers, farmers, blacksmiths, shop keepers, etc. stood firm against the most feared military of their time and refused to surrender their weapons.

Today our media demonizes the word militia. it is easy to understand why. The American citizen is actually the largest armed force in the world. There are many who wish to destroy that. It begins with undermining our Rights, infringing on our Rights, and taking away our Rights.


To the school shootings and other mass shootings. Prior to the internet, mass shootings were very rare. It would be interesting to track the rise of social media and the rise of mass shootings. Young people have been kept isolated for the past two years due to a disease that is 99.6% survivable. Young people spent and inordinate amount of time on social media platforms. Touching another human being is being replaced with keypads. Looking another human being in the eye and reading their body language as been replaced by a monitor. Netflix is full of violent movies and rarely post up a comedy or romance. Take a young man, bully him online, keep him isolated so he doesn't know his self worth, fail to instill morals and then let him binge watch John Wick movies and play hour upon hour of Call of Duty. The outcome is predictable. There will be more mass killings by mentally ill people. We are doing nothing to identify them and treat them. Many want to blame the instrument instead of the societal failings of our culture. The list of reasons for killing someone or many is actually a pretty short list. Mass shooters are particularly mentally ill. I suspect in their mind being famous or infamous is one in the same. Their name will be known. I will say that predators do measure Risk versus Reward. It should come as no surprise that they choose Gun Free Zones to inflict as much carnage as they can before they are stopped.

Note: I had plenty of links for citations I listed above, but being a new poster here it would not post.
All so very well said, and so very true. I THANK YOU, SARAH, SO VERY MUCH.

[ThirdOfFive]

Double BS.

Total nonsense.
UK is way down the list on world crime, and last school shooting was 1996.
Then guns were banned.
Gun crime now is mainly drug gangs killing each other, which as far as majority of population is concerned, save a lot of money on paperwork, and feeding them in prison.
Bingo! I certainly don't see gang members killing each other as a negative thing.

[rogerk]

More gun regulations will not change the outcome. Enforce the laws on the books. Switzerland has one of the lowest murder rates. They also require every man and woman to own a gun and know how to use it. Now that might be an interesting idea. Why do most mass shootings occur in gun free zones? Something to think about.

[Trayderjoe]

Weapons are PROHIBITED at all NRA CONVENTIONS!

Well this was a rumor that even Snopes flagged as false back in 2016 (link (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/nra-convention-gun-ban/#:~:text=However%2C%20the%20NRA%20did%20not%20in%2 0any%20way,varying%20convention%20practices%2C%20l ocal%20regulations%2C%20and%20existing%20laws.)).

Additionally, here is the NRA firearms policy (link (https://www.nraam.org/attend/firearms-policy/)). Can they be banned? Yes as in this case with President Trump attending (and in 2018 when Vice President Pence gave a speech).

[Trayderjoe]

Full disclosure: I am a hunter and grew up in a hunting family. I am a competition shooter, competing in speed pistol and precision rifle. I am a certified firearms instructor and co-founder of US Womens Shooting Academy. I know a lot about firearms. Lastly, I speak publicly on the Constitution as well as the 2nd Amendment.

I mean no disrespect regarding the two posts I highlighted above. There were several to choose from that are factually inaccurate and typify much of the rhetoric today. The majority of people screaming for more gun control are not knowledgeable about firearms.

The fact of the matter is, the AR-15 is not the weapon of choice for school shooters. The handgun is used 10 times more often. As a general note, it doesn't even rank in the top ten for weapons of straight out murder. AR style rifles account for an average of 17 murders over the past ten years. Blunt objects such as hammers and bats are used more often. The common denominator with school shooters are they are individuals who have been traumatized, bullied, marginalized, etc.



Some people believe AR stands for Assault Rifle. It does not. The AR line of firearms were manufactured by Armalite Rifles.
The AR has been around since the 1950's. Today it is popular with hunters and sport shooters alike. The AR does seem to frighten people who don't know anything about guns, whereas the Ruger Mini 14 Ranch Rifle doesn't bother them. The fact is, they both fire the .223/5.56 round with the same capacity magazines, at the same rate of fire which is one round for one trigger pull. The AR is a scary black rifle and the Ruger looks like Grandpa's pickup gun in his gun rack.

The second quoted post above calls the AR and assault weapon and considers it a weapon of war. Neither is true. The military version of the civilian AR is the M-16, a fully automatic rifle. The AR is not fully automatic. Nobody has a definition of assault rifle. It is a term used to frighten people. Never has the US soldier carried an AR-15 into battle. Our soldiers carry the M-16, among others.

The problem is not just that the average citizens doesn't know the facts, the problem is even bigger because many of our politicians don't know the facts, or conveniently twist the facts to suit their agenda and that is a bigger problem still. In my opinion, Legislators should have mandatory education on the important issues they draft laws to govern. Within the United States we have over 300,000 laws related to firearms. As noted, many are not enforced. That is a huge problem. Fun fact: Nobody knows how many laws there are in total in the US. That seems like a system out of control.

It is disturbing to me how little the average American knows about our freedom documents and the reasons our Founding Fathers created this Constitutional Republic of the people and for the people. In my personal library I have over 70 books on this subject. The oldest printed in 1785, Samuel Johnson's Dictionary. The very dictionary our Founding Fathers used to write the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

Addressing the second quoted post above I'll limit this to the 2nd Amendment. There is history to the Bill of Rights but I'll save that for another discussion. We shall use the text as it currently appears.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

The second quoted post above erroneously connects some imaginary dots that the guns of the militia should be regulated and our country does not regulate guns. Both assertions are false. First, there are many regulations on guns, at the Federal and State levels. The CZ Shadow 9mm handgun is one of my favorites. Try buying one in California. Hint: You can't buy a new CZ Shadow 2 because it is not on CA "approved roster of handguns".

Let's break down the second amendment. "A well regulated militia"...the definition of a militia in 1787 "the part of the community trained to martial exercise." The militia should be well regulated. The definition of "regulate" was to "direct". Therefore, another way of saying the first portion is "A well directed part of the community trained to martial exercise". The definition of "martial" is "war like".

"Being necessary for the security of a free State". This portion is very basic. There were 13 states at the time of the writing of our Constitution. The very much valued their freedom and intended to retain the freedom they fought 8 bloody years for.

"The right of the People to keep and bear Arms". So many on the left of center seem to not understand this. What is the Right? To keep and bear arms. To keep Arms means to hold and keep in custody. To bear arms means to carry arms. Who owns that Right? The People, not the State and not the militia as an entity, but the People. Arms means armaments as in armor for defense and weapons for offense.

"Shall not be infringed". Infringe means to violate, to destroy, to hinder.

Our Founding Fathers feared and did not favor a standing army. They had just won their independence fighting the British Regulars, the standing army of Britain. When the British moved to disarm the Americans on April 19, 1775 at Lexington and Concord, it was not George Washington's army who met them. It was the militias of that area. Bakers, farmers, blacksmiths, shop keepers, etc. stood firm against the most feared military of their time and refused to surrender their weapons.

Today our media demonizes the word militia. it is easy to understand why. The American citizen is actually the largest armed force in the world. There are many who wish to destroy that. It begins with undermining our Rights, infringing on our Rights, and taking away our Rights.


To the school shootings and other mass shootings. Prior to the internet, mass shootings were very rare. It would be interesting to track the rise of social media and the rise of mass shootings. Young people have been kept isolated for the past two years due to a disease that is 99.6% survivable. Young people spent and inordinate amount of time on social media platforms. Touching another human being is being replaced with keypads. Looking another human being in the eye and reading their body language as been replaced by a monitor. Netflix is full of violent movies and rarely post up a comedy or romance. Take a young man, bully him online, keep him isolated so he doesn't know his self worth, fail to instill morals and then let him binge watch John Wick movies and play hour upon hour of Call of Duty. The outcome is predictable. There will be more mass killings by mentally ill people. We are doing nothing to identify them and treat them. Many want to blame the instrument instead of the societal failings of our culture. The list of reasons for killing someone or many is actually a pretty short list. Mass shooters are particularly mentally ill. I suspect in their mind being famous or infamous is one in the same. Their name will be known. I will say that predators do measure Risk versus Reward. It should come as no surprise that they choose Gun Free Zones to inflict as much carnage as they can before they are stopped.

Note: I had plenty of links for citations I listed above, but being a new poster here it would not post.

All so very well said, and so very true. I THANK YOU, SARAH, SO VERY MUCH.

I'd like to add my thanks as well.

[ThirdOfFive]

[QUOTE=Sarah_W;2099233]Full disclosure: I am a hunter and grew up in a hunting family. I am a competition shooter, competing in speed pistol and precision rifle. I am a certified firearms instructor and co-founder of US Womens Shooting Academy. I know a lot about firearms. Lastly, I speak publicly on the Constitution as well as the 2nd Amendment.

Etc........

Excellent, well-written post. I didn't paste the whole post here but I DID print it. Lots of good information there.

One thing I inferred from the post is something that I believe very strongly; and that is that the excess emotion by the people who favor far stricter laws and controls actually hinders, rather than helps, the debate. And yes. There are many (far too many) who use a public display of emotion all too often accompanied by twisted claims and interpretations that are used to increase the emotion level of the public for their own gain. Such shenanigans solve nothing.

What is needed is reason, an actual KNOWLEDGE of the facts rather than just mindlessly repeating words designed to inflame rather than inform, and a willingness to look beyond our own prejudices. We don't have a gun problem. We have a people problem. And until we recognize and deal with THAT, things will just get worse.

[Heytubes]

Guess I can sue car manufacturers when a drunk drive kills someone.

[Kgcetm]

No one is afraid of the punishment any more. Do gooders have constructed a prison life that many just don’t want to leave. The process time between crime and punishment is too long and the accommodations too nice.

[Scbang]

Guns don’t kill unless a person pulls the trigger. Guns aren’t a carcinogen like tobacco. These kinds of things are products of perhaps too many violent video games, lack of proper parenting (instilling values and morals), lax or no punishment for crimes, and I could go on and on. My parents would have whipped me until I couldn’t stand up if I’d acted like some of these kids do these days. Parents just don’t discipline because they are a generation who didn’t get disciplined either.

You would think that 18 year old Texas kid had guts and energy to stab 19 children and 2 teachers to death.

I rest my case. Can you kill with no guns? Absolutely. but as I said earlier, it's how many and how fast you kill that isolates these horrible cases from other murders.

Sadness

[Scbang]

Guns don't kill people, people kill people. We need tougher penalties for all crimes including the death penalty for murder,
Many mass murders kill themselves after shooting. I don't think they were afraid to die.
Death penalty for them means nothing. We can give one death penalty for every single murder. What penalty would you give then to the dead Texas kid if he didn't get shot and killed?

Sadness.

[Scbang]

I would like to see your source for this. Mi e came from Timeline of Worldwide School and Mass Shootings (https://www.infoplease.com/us/crime/timeline-of-worldwide-school-and-mass-shootings)

Rules at the venue or for insurance.

It's dictated by Secret Service to protect you know who scheduled to speak there.
It should have been "Everybody is required to carry some kind of guns".

Sad.

[Scbang]

I wondered why the Border Patrol was involved.

Many of the cops and/or soldiers do not have actual gun battle experience. They will more likely be hiding than trying to shoot the killer. Border patrol guys probably have enough experience with live bullets flying. Long time ago, I passed a live shooting robbery scene and the only cop who really was aiming and shooting was a Vietnam Vet. I read the Texas school security guard did not do anything to stop this massacre and there is absolutely no proof that armed school guard reduces school gun violence.
That is $1B/yr wasted because someone has to say we are doing something.

Sadness

[Scbang]

Originally Posted by dewilson58 View Post
Almost correct.

Hunters in Japan can have guns.

The low murder rate is culture driven, not gun control driven.
Right. They will not dishonor their families. The life lessons begin at birth…

Japan has a quite bloody history ( If you watched any Samurai war movies ). It is true hunters can have a hunting gun but it is very difficult to get a permit. It has to be unloaded and locked in. If any high level dignitaries come to town, you have to bring your gun to local police station to be locked up till he/she is gone. It is not cultural but I admit, if you did not have guns for so long ( Since the end of WW2 ) it probably became cultural by now..

Sadness

[Scbang]

Guess I can sue car manufacturers when a drunk drive kills someone.

Yes if they said my cars don't kill people.

Sadness

[jimjamuser]

Prayers, platitudes, lots of flowers, plenty of photo ops. at the vigils, (cry please) and most of all, empty promises.
Same old faces spouting the same entrenched opinions.
Sells papers, and keeps the talking heads employed.
Nothing will change.
Here's to the next time! :ohdear:
Social tensions are VERY high. There are 1.2 guns available per person in the US and a BIG increase in the last 2 years. That is a bad recipe! And there could be something like one mass murder every 10 days in the near future - until something is done nationwide to lower social tensions or do something about the US guns problem or do both.
Australia AND New Zealand HAD a similar problem to the one the US has now. They attacked the gun problem directly by Australia's MELTING DOWN all semi-automatic rifles. Since then they have had only ONE mass murder in about 10 years. That is PROOF POSITIVE that something can be done. Children in Australia and New Zealand do NOT have to fear simply going to school - or adults going to church - or to a square to listen to music and dance.
........ Also, US mass murders are only 2% of the deaths due to guns. The rest is individual murders and suicides!
..........I am in favor of the 2nd amendment and having gun ownership for home protection, shooting targets, and hunting. I am NOT in favor of semi-automatic rifles that the NRA and the gun manufacturers PREFER because of high mark-up and profits paid for by the blood of children. Let's return to the 1950s when guns were for hunting game and NOT HUNTING PEOPLE !!!!!!!

[DAVES]

19 innocent children, 2 dedicated teachers, lives lost, solution????? More guns, bigger prisons, NOT. Japan, no guns unless police and military, murder rate .3 percent per 100,000, America, 4.7 per 100,000. Mental health wake up call.

Sadly, there are no simple answers. Mental health? Read the posts. Anyone who does not agree with ME they are NUTS.

INSANITY? The definition of insanity is harmful to yourself or others. Your neighbor sprays insecticide on a tree. Are they INSANE?

Antigun? Acceptance of law by RIOT. Lack of police support. Gun sales have skyrocketed.

The fact is there is a very small percentage of our population that commit violent crimes. It was proposed three strikes and you are out but it never happened.

Our legal system, innocent until proven guilty. Hum 3x and your out and accepting it is a crime for anyone to suggest you MIGHT commit a crime. IMAGINE.

[jimjamuser]

Maybe we should not let our children play violent video games that gives them the idea that it's ok to kill people ?
Throughout the WHOLE world, children play the SAME kind of violent video games. The UK, Germany, and all other countries have an INSIGNIFICANT amount of gun violence compared to the US which is, BY FAR, # 1 . Also mental health is nearly constant throughout the world, so not really a factor! The differentiating factor is that the AVAILABILITY OF GUNS in the US is sssssoooo much greater.

[Stu from NYC]

Throughout the WHOLE world, children play the SAME kind of violent video games. The UK, Germany, and all other countries have an INSIGNIFICANT amount of gun violence compared to the US which is, BY FAR, # 1 . Also mental health is nearly constant throughout the world, so not really a factor! The differentiating factor is that the AVAILABILITY OF GUNS in the US is sssssoooo much greater.

Not so sure availability of firearms is the cause. Understand there is a huge number of firearms owned by residents of the villages. When was the last time they were improperly used?

[DAVES]

Social tensions are VERY high. There are 1.2 guns available per person in the US and a BIG increase in the last 2 years. That is a bad recipe! And there could be something like one mass murder every 10 days in the near future - until something is done nationwide to lower social tensions or do something about the US guns problem or do both.
Australia AND New Zealand HAD a similar problem to the one the US has now. They attacked the gun problem directly by Australia's MELTING DOWN all semi-automatic rifles. Since then they have had only ONE mass murder in about 10 years. That is PROOF POSITIVE that something can be done. Children in Australia and New Zealand do NOT have to fear simply going to school - or adults going to church - or to a square to listen to music and dance.
........ Also, US mass murders are only 2% of the deaths due to guns. The rest is individual murders and suicides!
..........I am in favor of the 2nd amendment and having gun ownership for home protection, shooting targets, and hunting. I am NOT in favor of semi-automatic rifles that the NRA and the gun manufacturers PREFER because of high mark-up and profits paid for by the blood of children. Let's return to the 1950s when guns were for hunting game and NOT HUNTING PEOPLE !!!!!!!

Return to the 1950's. First of all we cannot go back to what was. Secondly, memory of the good old days is distorted. I HAVE PHOTOGRAPHIC PROOF OF IT.

I was born in 1950. We have 16mm movies of a family picnic I will guess around 1955. We never had a 16mm projector so I had no way to see them. I had them transferred to DVD. Due to my parents yelling at me about littering, I remembered the streets were clean in the OLD DAYS. The movies show clearly that was not true.
Typical park equipment. Today child protection services , which did not exist, would toss parents into jail and put kids into foster care for allowing kids to play on that stuff. Movies showed I was having a blast. This post shows it did not kill us. Oh and my did was a WWII COMBAT VET. We were poorer than is provided, today by the public dole. UNFAIR-I was taught, right and wrong. I was taught you work for what you need. I was taught there is a difference between what you need and what you want.

What is wrong now is what we have allowed to be.

[jimjamuser]

Guns have been around forever, but mass shootings are up during recent years. What’s different than before, social media and violent video games that are streamed online through sites like twitch. How come every time there is a violent shooting it becomes about guns, but when some whack job mows down a crowd of people with a car it’s not about vehicles? Whack jobs will always find a way, especially when they can become immediate social media click bait.
From about 1950 to 1985 if you read a Guns magazine, the articles were about where to hunt pheasants and deer - and what shotgun or bolt-action rifle was best for deer. Also some articles about hunting in Alaska, Canada, or even Africa. THEN, that all changed because the GUN MANUFACTURERS found out that fewer people were going hunting and that there were larger PROFITS to make in selling to FOOLS....... MILITARY-STYLE semi-automatics AKA MAN KILLERS !!!!!!!

[ThirdOfFive]

"Let's return to the 1950s when guns were for hunting game and NOT HUNTING PEOPLE !!!!!!!"

The ethics and values of the 1950s were what prevented people then from what they are doing now. Guns were just as available then. Actually much more so: if you were over 18, in Minnesota at least, you could buy a gun. Or guns. My dad had a collection of well over 50 when he died. But if we EVER had school shootings back then, we certainly didn't hear about it.

We don't have a gun problem. We have a people problem. Fix the PEOPLE and forget about demonizing guns: it is just a convenient way to avoid facing the real issues.

[DAVES]

Not so sure availability of firearms is the cause. Understand there is a huge number of firearms owned by residents of the villages. When was the last time they were improperly used?

It could not be more clear. You cannot reason with people. So many examples.
Read the posts on any thread. A post where it says, I DID NOT REALIZE I AM WRONG BUT I SEE IT NOW.

People in the villages are older, brighter, more educated and more prosperous than average.

[ThirdOfFive]

From about 1950 to 1985 if you read a Guns magazine, the articles were about where to hunt pheasants and deer - and what shotgun or bolt-action rifle was best for deer. Also some articles about hunting in Alaska, Canada, or even Africa. THEN, that all changed because the GUN MANUFACTURERS found out that fewer people were going hunting and that there were larger PROFITS to make in selling to FOOLS....... MILITARY-STYLE semi-automatics AKA MAN KILLERS !!!!!!!
Sorta like blaming the gifts for causing Christmas.