Baby Formula Shipments

[dewilson58]

What a joke, a plane load here, a plane load there.

Not a drop in the bucket & months late.

:ohdear::ohdear:

[Stu from NYC]

How in the world did nobody in the federal govt knowing that a large portion of formula capacity was off line raise their hand and say guys we have a big problem coming and a few planeloads of formula from Europe is a drop in the bucket.

[ureout]

How in the world did nobody in the federal govt knowing that a large portion of formula capacity was off line raise their hand and say guys we have a big problem coming and a few planeloads of formula from Europe is a drop in the bucket.

yes I agree this never should have happened.. but why would the federal gov't keep track of baby formula ??

[dewilson58]

yes I agree this never should have happened.. but why would the federal gov't keep track of baby formula ??

They don't have to track...............they need to think, Cause & Effect.

:ho:

[Stu from NYC]

yes I agree this never should have happened.. but why would the federal gov't keep track of baby formula ??

The FDA closed a major producer of formula in a market where there is only a few manufacturers. What did they think would happen when the factory was closed for many months?

[Keefelane66]

The FDA closed a major producer of formula in a market where there is only a few manufacturers. What did they think would happen when the factory was closed for many months?

The question should be why didn't ABBOT take control of their issue. Why were imports of baby formula banned in the USMCA trade agreement, Why aren't there overlapping formulas between manufactures. Why does Capitalism allow monopolies? Four companies control baby formula. Four companies control meatpacking and they all can set prices at will. I love capitalism when I can control demand I can set the price.

[Stu from NYC]

The question should be why didn't ABBOT take control of their issue. Why were imports of baby formula banned in the USMCA trade agreement, Why aren't there overlapping formulas between manufactures. Why does Capitalism allow monopolies? Four companies control baby formula. Four companies control meatpacking and they all can set prices at will. I love capitalism when I can control demand I can set the price.

Better question is why is the govt allowing these mergers that reduce competition? Shocked that the govt allowed Spring and T Mobile to merge. How does that not limit competition?

Also what really happened between Abbott and the govt after the FDA closed the facility? Suddenly when their is a shortage of formula Abbott can suddenly restart the factory? How is that?

[MartinSE]

What a joke, a plane load here, a plane load there.

Not a drop in the bucket & months late.

:ohdear::ohdear:

That is ONE thing that is being done. It is NOT a solution, it I snot perfect. It is ONE of many things put in place to resolve the problem.

The root cause of the problem is the legal restriction of producers of baby formula, and the legal restriction of importing baby formula. Combine that with the largest provider in the US closing a main plant and it was inevitable.

[MartinSE]

The FDA closed a major producer of formula in a market where there is only a few manufacturers. What did they think would happen when the factory was closed for many months?

It was a voluntary closure after. whistle blower contacted the FDA with concerns. The FDA then "dragged its feet" in addressing the problem. To me the more important question is why the FDA dragged it's feet.

[MartinSE]

Better question is why is the govt allowing these mergers that reduce competition? Shocked that the govt allowed Spring and T Mobile to merge. How does that not limit competition?

Also what really happened between Abbott and the govt after the FDA closed the facility? Suddenly when their is a shortage of formula Abbott can suddenly restart the factory? How is that?

I agreed with the question, why are we allowing monopolies that put the public at risk. I think the answer is obvious, money.

[DDToto41]

Better question is why is the govt allowing these mergers that reduce competition? Shocked that the govt allowed Spring and T Mobile to merge. How does that not limit competition?

Also what really happened between Abbott and the govt after the FDA closed the facility? Suddenly when their is a shortage of formula Abbott can suddenly restart the factory? How is that?

The FDA didn't close Abbot, they closed themselves because they had a roof leak and 4 babies got sick and 2 died possibly from their formula. this happened in February and they are still closed for a roof repair. why didn't they repair the roof before it became a problem?

[tklloop]

What a joke, a plane load here, a plane load there.

Not a drop in the bucket & months late.

:ohdear::ohdear:

And that’s affecting you how??

[PersonOfInterest]

What a joke, a plane load here, a plane load there.

Not a drop in the bucket & months late.

:ohdear::ohdear:

What a disaster! How could anyone know how to feed a baby without Baby Formula? The babies should launch a huge protest.

[Rzepecki]

Gentlemen:

Feeding babies is considered a “woman’s” issue and, therefore, low priority. It’s something women deal with from the time they are born: as soon as their gender is determined rights are taken away and they are marginalized.

[Lindsyburnsy]

No kidding. Why on earth wasn't the manufacturing problem resolved months ago. Then because of NAFTA changes a few years ago, we couldn't get anything imported quickly. If we are going to buy American products, we need more than 1-2 companies producing it just in case of issues like the one the producers had.

[donassaid]

Quite the problem. Did you actually believe that anyone in the Federal Govt. actually THINKS? Dis anyone Think before pulling the military out of Afghanistan before getting the civilians out? Did they Think before leaving behind billions of dollars in military weapons including planes, helicopters, drones, tanks, firing weapons and ammunition? Obviously not.

[waterflower]

yes I agree this never should have happened.. but why would the federal gov't keep track of baby formula ??
Maybe all the food plants/farms that are now shut down is because the evil corporations have been putting toxic ingredients in our food system for decade (cancer etc). Many of these locations have burnt down, planes crash into them etc. Maybe we can find a independent investigator instead of listening to the controlled news corporations.

[Petersweeney]

What percent of babies use formula? It got to be pretty low…..I hope.

[ThirdOfFive]

Time for a little perspective here...

Just what is this "shortage". Well, it is a shortage of a product that is there in very large part for one thing. Convenience.

Growing up back in the day, most of the mothers NURSED their infants. We'd see it a lot and nobody gave it a second thought. Many of the mothers would place a cloth over the infant and breast for modesty's sake but many did not. Mama Nature provides. Our culture however favors giving our infants second-best.

Okay. I get the fact that a lot of women these days work away from home. I also get the fact that for some small percentage of women and children, physical issues prevent maternal nursing. But we seem to be bemoaning a "problem" that exists largely in our minds; a problem for which answers OTHER than infant formula are available.

1. BREAST MILK. Even back in my day, some women would pump milk from their own breasts and have it on hand to feed L'il Bubba from a bottle when circumstances made breast-feeding difficult. Even in my daughter's generation, women would do this and drop the bottle(s) off with Bubba at daycare. Too obvious to be considered, I guess.

2: LACTATION-FRIENDLY SPACES: You see 'em all over. They're not just for nursing, but also for pumping milk from the mother's breasts for feeding later. I'm not sure but I think many states and municipalities mandate them for public areas. I know that some Courthouses up north have them. There are even forward-thinking work places that have them. A large agency that I used to use for client placement had an infant daycare on-site along with the lactation room, so female employees who were also nursing mothers could go there to feed their infant, or to pump milk to be kept for later feedings by the workers.

3: FORMULA SUBSTITUTES. Mom used to make her own baby formula from Karo syrup, canned condensed milk and a couple of other ingredients. She nursed all of us (5) when very young but substituted her home-made formula for later times. We all grew up healthy as horses so it didn't do us any harm. I haven't checked but I'll bet a dollar to a doughnut that there are dozens, perhaps hundreds, of such formula recipes available online.

The formula crisis exists largely in our minds. Creativity and planning ahead--along with being less concerned with convenience and outward appearances, and a greater concern for the health and well-being of the infant--could take care of most of it.

We've gone too far away from our roots. Previous generations knew how to handle such things and solve such problems. We, apparently, do not.

[OhioBuckeye]

What a joke, a plane load here, a plane load there.

Not a drop in the bucket & months late.

:ohdear::ohdear:

All you can do at this time is shake your head!

[PugMom]

It was a voluntary closure after. whistle blower contacted the FDA with concerns. The FDA then "dragged its feet" in addressing the problem. To me the more important question is why the FDA dragged it's feet.

yes, i'd read that report also. you'd think they'd forsee this being an issue

[dewilson58]

What percent of babies use formula? It got to be pretty low…..I hope.

Couple of quick snaps:

While about 80% of babies are now breastfed at birth, by three months less than 20% are exclusively breastfed.

This statistic means that over 50 percent of moms were formula feeders by some point within their first year, whether exclusively or in combination feeding. By six months, the statistics are even lower, with only 25 percent of moms exclusively breastfeeding.

[dewilson58]

And that’s affecting you how??

Grandchildren and friends with babies, thanks for asking.

[dewilson58]

Also what really happened between Abbott and the govt after the FDA closed the facility? Suddenly when their is a shortage of formula Abbott can suddenly restart the factory? How is that?

Abbott's market share is not a result of mega mergers.

How can Abbott suddenly start, they rec'd FDA authorization.

[Stu from NYC]

Abbott's market share is not a result of mega mergers.

How can Abbott suddenly start, they rec'd FDA authorization.

Of course Abbott can restart after they received authorization from the FDA. The obvious question is what took so long for this to happen?

Is this on the company or the FDA?

[Stu from NYC]

Time for a little perspective here...

Just what is this "shortage". Well, it is a shortage of a product that is there in very large part for one thing. Convenience.

Growing up back in the day, most of the mothers NURSED their infants. We'd see it a lot and nobody gave it a second thought. Many of the mothers would place a cloth over the infant and breast for modesty's sake but many did not. Mama Nature provides. Our culture however favors giving our infants second-best.

Okay. I get the fact that a lot of women these days work away from home. I also get the fact that for some small percentage of women and children, physical issues prevent maternal nursing. But we seem to be bemoaning a "problem" that exists largely in our minds; a problem for which answers OTHER than infant formula are available.

1. BREAST MILK. Even back in my day, some women would pump milk from their own breasts and have it on hand to feed L'il Bubba from a bottle when circumstances made breast-feeding difficult. Even in my daughter's generation, women would do this and drop the bottle(s) off with Bubba at daycare. Too obvious to be considered, I guess.

2: LACTATION-FRIENDLY SPACES: You see 'em all over. They're not just for nursing, but also for pumping milk from the mother's breasts for feeding later. I'm not sure but I think many states and municipalities mandate them for public areas. I know that some Courthouses up north have them. There are even forward-thinking work places that have them. A large agency that I used to use for client placement had an infant daycare on-site along with the lactation room, so female employees who were also nursing mothers could go there to feed their infant, or to pump milk to be kept for later feedings by the workers.

3: FORMULA SUBSTITUTES. Mom used to make her own baby formula from Karo syrup, canned condensed milk and a couple of other ingredients. She nursed all of us (5) when very young but substituted her home-made formula for later times. We all grew up healthy as horses so it didn't do us any harm. I haven't checked but I'll bet a dollar to a doughnut that there are dozens, perhaps hundreds, of such formula recipes available online.

The formula crisis exists largely in our minds. Creativity and planning ahead--along with being less concerned with convenience and outward appearances, and a greater concern for the health and well-being of the infant--could take care of most of it.

We've gone too far away from our roots. Previous generations knew how to handle such things and solve such problems. We, apparently, do not.

I would agree that breastfeeding is preferable but it is not always possible.

Our daughter for some reason rejected feeding from one of my wife's breasts. How does one convince a two moth old little girl this is not the right thing to do? Sometimes a female has a problem producing enough milk.

Bottom line not always possible.

[dewilson58]

Of course Abbott can

Well you asked the question, just giving you the of course answer.

:ohdear::ohdear:

[Topspinmo]

What a joke, a plane load here, a plane load there.

Not a drop in the bucket & months late.

:ohdear::ohdear:

Well, if makes you feel better gasoline all time high this morning $4.59 at my local gas station. :):duck:

[Topspinmo]

yes I agree this never should have happened.. but why would the federal gov't keep track of baby formula ??

Well, maybe it’s somebody job in federal government for welfare of the people?

[Topspinmo]

What a joke, a plane load here, a plane load there.

Not a drop in the bucket & months late.

:ohdear::ohdear:



How did non-breastfeeding mums feed their babies before formula was invented? (https://babyology.com.au/baby/feeding/bottle-feeding/how-did-non-breastfeeding-mums-feed-their-babies-before-formula-was-invented/)

[ThirdOfFive]

I would agree that breastfeeding is preferable but it is not always possible.

Our daughter for some reason rejected feeding from one of my wife's breasts. How does one convince a two moth old little girl this is not the right thing to do? Sometimes a female has a problem producing enough milk.

Bottom line not always possible.
Of course. But what percentage of cases out of the entire spectrum of infants needing bottle/breast feeding is this true? There is still formula to be had. And if we were a bit more proactive and resourceful I am sure it would be more than enough to cover those cases.

[Burgy]

It was a voluntary closure after. whistle blower contacted the FDA with concerns. The FDA then "dragged its feet" in addressing the problem. To me the more important question is why the FDA dragged it's feet.

Just like we waited many weeks for them to approve covid vaccines with their many layers of boards for approvals. All the director would say is it wasn't OPTIMALLY HANDLED. Now they are acting heroic with the planeloads coming in.

[forebubba]

What a joke, a plane load here, a plane load there.

Not a drop in the bucket & months late.

:ohdear::ohdear:

And who voted against even getting any?
Tariffs imposed on Canada closed that supply source too
Abbott bought back $5,000,000,000 stock. Did not fix the problem.

[MartinSE]

And who voted against even getting any?
Tariffs imposed on Canada closed that supply source too
Abbott bought back $5,000,000,000 stock. Did not fix the problem.

The problem was/is a virtual monopoly with NO plan for what to do when the biggest producer (the virtual monopoly holder) had a problem. That problem has been around a long time, and was exaggerated by the previous administration. That the limitations put in place came back to haunt us in this administration is just what happens with out method of governing where we change sides every few years and undo everything possible that the other side did.

Once upon a time (in the GOOD OLD DAYS) monopolies were illegal and people got famous by taking them to court and taking them down. Then companies figured out they could buy the politicians and change the laws to help them become monopolies (the vast majority of baby formula is made by 2 companies and 45% is made by one - Abbot).

In so many critical product lines today virtual monopolies exist - a handful of mega companies control 80% of the food in the US, and on and on. We all know about Amazon, and WalMart, et al.

The government is in the pocket so to speak of these major international virtual monopolies. And if you believe they do not talk to each other to "fix prices and supplies" you are naive for sure.

Anyway. This whole thing was the product of decades of decisions and a predatory capitalism system that places profit above people. Just consider with Abbot producing 45% of all Baby Formula in the country, what do you think would happen if they shut down their biggest plant for a month or more. And yet, they were not required to have a plan, and so they didn't.

You can stop blaming administrations. People in government are trying to deal with a situation that should never have happened. And doing the best they can.

[Stu from NYC]

The problem was/is a virtual monopoly with NO plan for what to do when the biggest producer (the virtual monopoly holder) had a problem. That problem has been around a long time, and was exaggerated by the previous administration. That the limitations put in place came back to haunt us in this administration is just what happens with out method of governing where we change sides every few years and undo everything possible that the other side did.

Once upon a time (in the GOOD OLD DAYS) monopolies were illegal and people got famous by taking them to court and taking them down. Then companies figured out they could buy the politicians and change the laws to help them become monopolies (the vast majority of baby formula is made by 2 companies and 45% is made by one - Abbot).

In so many critical product lines today virtual monopolies exist - a handful of mega companies control 80% of the food in the US, and on and on. We all know about Amazon, and WalMart, et al.

The government is in the pocket so to speak of these major international virtual monopolies. And if you believe they do not talk to each other to "fix prices and supplies" you are naive for sure.

Anyway. This whole thing was the product of decades of decisions and a predatory capitalism system that places profit above people. Just consider with Abbot producing 45% of all Baby Formula in the country, what do you think would happen if they shut down their biggest plant for a month or more. And yet, they were not required to have a plan, and so they didn't.

You can stop blaming administrations. People in government are trying to deal with a situation that should never have happened. And doing the best they can.

Govt caused this by allowing these monopolies and oligopolies and should have done a better job stopping this before it reached this level.

Govt in way too many instances brings new meaning to incompetence.

[MartinSE]

Govt caused this by allowing these monopolies and oligopolies and should have done a better job stopping this before it reached this level.

Govt in way too many instances brings new meaning to incompetence.

Sorry, don't mean to be argumentative, but I disagree. The government is extremely competent. They do exactly what their owners want them to do, with precision and tenacity, regardless of what their constituents want.

[Stu from NYC]

Sorry, don't mean to be argumentative, but I disagree. The government is extremely competent. They do exactly what their owners want them to do, with precision and tenacity, regardless of what their constituents want.

Sad that they do not work for we the people anymore. Unfortunately we keep returning them to office.

Did you read the comments from retired guy recently how incredibly inefficient the govt actually is.

[MartinSE]

Sad that they do not work for we the people anymore. Unfortunately we keep returning them to office.

Did you read the comments from retired guy recently how incredibly inefficient the govt actually is.

I don't recall that post. I assume the "inefficiency" is things like $1000 screw driver for a jet. Which if you think about it is a very efficient way to transfer tax dollars to mega companies.

[Retiredsteve]

Better question is why is the govt allowing these mergers that reduce competition? Shocked that the govt allowed Spring and T Mobile to merge. How does that not limit competition?

Also what really happened between Abbott and the govt after the FDA closed the facility? Suddenly when their is a shortage of formula Abbott can suddenly restart the factory? How is that? I live in the bastion of right wing politics and you ask that question? Remember, less government? Remember, too many government regulations? Viola, less oversight

[Stu from NYC]

I live in the bastion of right wing politics and you ask that question? Remember, less government? Remember, too many government regulations? Viola, less oversight

With all the govt we have not much oversight seems to be going on. Do you really think more govt will give more oversight?

Sorry have to disagree.

[Stu from NYC]

I don't recall that post. I assume the "inefficiency" is things like $1000 screw driver for a jet. Which if you think about it is a very efficient way to transfer tax dollars to mega companies.

No his post was saying 12 employees were needed to do the work that two efficient workers could be doing.

And eventually we get to pay the pensions for lots of people who stood around doing very little.

[nn0wheremann]

The FDA closed a major producer of formula in a market where there is only a few manufacturers. What did they think would happen when the factory was closed for many months?
Why did not the Justice department sue to break up Abbot’s trust? One company supplying 40 percent of an essential product? Managed by arrogant idiots who would not fix a leaky roof in their only factory, nor would they maintain sanitation? And still they cannot clean it up to sanitary standards! But they crank out PR bull$%@# denying that their documented sanitation problems killed the babies sickened by their mistakes.

[ThirdOfFive]

With all the govt we have not much oversight seems to be going on. Do you really think more govt will give more oversight?

Sorry have to disagree.
In my opinion more EFFECTIVE government will lead to proper oversight. It seems to be a distressing tendency for governments--all levels--to get so bloated over time that they get in their own way more often than not. Best way to slim down the government is to get rid of the inefficient fat, which would mean a smaller, more efficient government.

Of course that will never happen. No entity on the planet is better at justifying its existence than government.

[dewilson58]

Why did not the Justice department sue to break up Abbot’s trust? One company supplying 40 percent of an essential product? Managed by arrogant idiots who would not fix a leaky roof in their only factory, nor would they maintain sanitation? And still they cannot clean it up to sanitary standards! But they crank out PR bull$%@# denying that their documented sanitation problems killed the babies sickened by their mistakes.

Hope you fell better now.

Except for 40%, 100% opinion..............no facts.

[billethkid]

Sorry, don't mean to be argumentative, but I disagree. The government is extremely competent. They do exactly what their owners want them to do, with precision and tenacity, regardless of what their constituents want.

Perfect assessment!!

[njbchbum]

Of course. But what percentage of cases out of the entire spectrum of infants needing bottle/breast feeding is this true? There is still formula to be had. And if we were a bit more proactive and resourceful I am sure it would be more than enough to cover those cases.

You seem to think that you have all of the answers - why don't you tell us "what percentage of cases out of the entire spectrum of infants needing bottle/breast feeding is this true?".

And as far as "And if we were a bit more proactive and resourceful I am sure it would be more than enough to cover those cases." - just what would your idea of 'proactive and resourceful' be?

How many women in your family are currently feeding their infants?

[Djean1981]

How in the world did nobody in the federal govt knowing that a large portion of formula capacity was off line raise their hand and say guys we have a big problem coming and a few planeloads of formula from Europe is a drop in the bucket.
Oh, they knew...

[Stu from NYC]

Oh, they knew...

Agreed but apparently sat on their hands.