No Palm Allowed?

[Ozzello]

I spent several years wintering here before I bought our home in TV. A major selling point for my wife and I, was the beautiful palms so many people had as part of the landscaping.

Even when purchasing our new home, the salesman assured me, that though I can't get that palm in my front yard, I could replace the ugly tree there with a palm after I closed, as so many other residents have . It seemed obvious the way it was done here.

Now, the AOC tells me I have to remove that palm I waited so long, and paid so much for.

Why? Because someone complained.

Special easement? No. But everyone , yes EVERYONE on my street has a palm in this same location?
Well, no one complained about them. "So , it isn't a problem big enough to do anything about, unless someone complains?" That is how complaint driven works.

This is where I started driving around, looking at how many homes were out of compliance. There are MORE OUT of compliance than IN!! Yep, I just got lucky and had this jerk down the street that doesn't have anything better to do, than police ME.. Why not the house RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET FROM ME???

How far from the street do I need to move this tree? Not inside 15.5' ..... and if I put the lovely landscape wall around the tree at a healthy distance, the wall must be 16.5' from our little side street curb, moving the tree to 21'. the sylvester has a 12' frond spanning back 14' from the required setback and would now touch my house.

I guess the big screwing came from the sales team. Anyone want to buy a house.. with no palm tree, and a real jerk living a couple doors down with nothing better to do than stick his nose in your business?

[ohioshooter]

There’s at least one in every neighborhood.

[photo1902]

I spent several years wintering here before I bought our home in TV. A major selling point for my wife and I, was the beautiful palms so many people had as part of the landscaping.

Even when purchasing our new home, the salesman assured me, that though I can't get that palm in my front yard, I could replace the ugly tree there with a palm after I closed, as so many other residents have . It seemed obvious the way it was done here.

Now, the AOC tells me I have to remove that palm I waited so long, and paid so much for.

Why? Because someone complained.

Special easement? No. But everyone , yes EVERYONE on my street has a palm in this same location?
Well, no one complained about them. "So , it isn't a problem big enough to do anything about, unless someone complains?" That is how complaint driven works.

This is where I started driving around, looking at how many homes were out of compliance. There are MORE OUT of compliance than IN!! Yep, I just got lucky and had this jerk down the street that doesn't have anything better to do, than police ME.. Why not the house RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET FROM ME???

How far from the street do I need to move this tree? Not inside 15.5' ..... and if I put the lovely landscape wall around the tree at a healthy distance, the wall must be 16.5' from our little side street curb, moving the tree to 21'. the sylvester has a 12' frond spanning back 14' from the required setback and would now touch my house.

I guess the big screwing came from the sales team. Anyone want to buy a house.. with no palm tree, and a real jerk living a couple doors down with nothing better to do than stick his nose in your business?

So we all understand what’s going on in your case, did you submit an ARC application before making any changes?

[Ozzello]

They apparently 'missed' that the palm would be too close to the road. The approval actually says on it, that if anything they approved, later is deemed not within the guidelines, that the approval doesn't count.

So even WITH approval, if someone complains the tree or landscape border is too close to the road, you have to move it.

[Bill14564]

If EVERYONE on the street has a palm in the same location including the house RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET FROM you then perhaps Community Standards can help. If those palms were approved then Community Standards should have the letters of approval on file. You might be able to use those approvals as an argument for why your palm should be approved as well.

Possible issues:
- If the palms were original then who knows if any approval was required
- The neighbors might not have asked for approval. In that case you will need to decide if you want to become that jerk and file complaints about them
- The posts in other threads make it seem like the ARC is not often willing to give retroactive approvals. You'll have to decide if it's worth the time to do the research and possibly be turned down anyway.

[Stu from NYC]

Sorry this happened to you

[Ozzello]

I already removed the tree and 'offending' landscape. The ARC (inspector?) seemed pretty adamant that was my only choice, or I would be fined. He wasn't very nice and got quite an attitude when I asked questions about having other options. The landscaper I had remove the tree said in the last few years the ARC went from rarely imposing fines and being quite reasonable with these type matters, to becoming very strict and imposing fines very quickly. So maybe there was a changing of the 'landscape' at the ARC?

[mtdjed]

I spent several years wintering here before I bought our home in TV. A major selling point for my wife and I, was the beautiful palms so many people had as part of the landscaping.

Even when purchasing our new home, the salesman assured me, that though I can't get that palm in my front yard, I could replace the ugly tree there with a palm after I closed, as so many other residents have . It seemed obvious the way it was done here.

Now, the AOC tells me I have to remove that palm I waited so long, and paid so much for.

Why? Because someone complained.

Special easement? No. But everyone , yes EVERYONE on my street has a palm in this same location?
Well, no one complained about them. "So , it isn't a problem big enough to do anything about, unless someone complains?" That is how complaint driven works.

This is where I started driving around, looking at how many homes were out of compliance. There are MORE OUT of compliance than IN!! Yep, I just got lucky and had this jerk down the street that doesn't have anything better to do, than police ME.. Why not the house RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET FROM ME???

How far from the street do I need to move this tree? Not inside 15.5' ..... and if I put the lovely landscape wall around the tree at a healthy distance, the wall must be 16.5' from our little side street curb, moving the tree to 21'. the sylvester has a 12' frond spanning back 14' from the required setback and would now touch my house.

I guess the big screwing came from the sales team. Anyone want to buy a house.. with no palm tree, and a real jerk living a couple doors down with nothing better to do than stick his nose in your business?

I appreciate the feelings you have but think you should step back and cool down and think it through.

Setbacks are there for a reason and non compliance by others is not a license to do the same.

Like you, I wanted Palm Trees in my new yard 14 years ago. (I am from the north). The image was great at the time. That 12' frond umbrella didn't stop at 12'. Mine is now over 20' and some around here are larger yet. Palm trees are extremely messy and require maintenance, a lot of maintenance. Frond removal, seed pod removal, diamond cuts on removed fronds etc. Perhaps do it yourself for a while with loppers, handsaws, stepladder, extended saws, and then 24 foot extended saws, extension ladders, chainsaws, and did I mention a lot of Band-Aids. At some point as the tree grows older as you also will, you need to hire someone to maintain at $100 per tree perhaps twice a year or pay to have the monster removed along with the stump for $350 or so. I paid to get rid of two Palms that grew so large that they infringed with the roof. Some neighbors found that their Palms became a thruway for Palm Rats to gain easy access to their attics. And bees love the ripening seeds coming out of the seed pods .

I wish some "jerk" had ratted on me. Palm trees belong on beaches or byways for you to view. Enjoy the sight of your neighbors trees which can be seen from your house. After all, you really can't enjoy the sight of yours because they are blocking your windows. When you are outside looking at them, you are looking up and noticing the brown fronds that need to be trimmed. Put Sylvester in the back yard or somewhere you can view from afar. You will save a lot of money.

Buy the "jerk" a Mai Tai.

[Ozzello]

I am well aware of the pros and cons of palm trees. And setbacks and why they are there. I am also aware of blanket POA rules that make no sense and are created by people who have more political experience than engineering.
In the back where it actually impacts utilities and drainage issues, they require significantly less room.

Is it for 4 ft sidewalk they MAY install and still 12 MORE feet for possible utilities that would ACTUALLY be installed under the road should the need arise to abandon the existing utilities in the back of our property?
They learned here 2 decades ago it is cheaper to do utilities under the road instead of demo and replacement of driveways.

If this issue of having palm trees.. or ANY landscaping within 15 ft of the road was actually IMPORTANT , they wouldn't be ONLY addressing the complaining neighbors.

[asianthree]

So ARC approved the landscaping, in writing, then changed their mind? Was the approval for the same site as the palm was placed?

I thought once ARC approval and kept to the same plan, you were good to go. If they can then change their mind on a site approval, who would dare spend money to potentially have to remove at the whims of ARC

[GizmoWhiskers]

They apparently 'missed' that the palm would be too close to the road. The approval actually says on it, that if anything they approved, later is deemed not within the guidelines, that the approval doesn't count.

So even WITH approval, if someone complains the tree or landscape border is too close to the road, you have to move it.

"Selective Enforcement" you could do some research on it.

[Black Beauty]

We had someone complain about our new yard light being 'different'. My lovely wife got it approved...busy bodies

[La lamy]

Wow what a crazy journey you've been on. I agree that palms are probably not worth the hassle, but ARC should not be able to waffle on their decisions. If they do, they should financially compensate you for THEIR mistake.

[kidnerkim]

Before you do anything, you must present plan to architectural board. They approve changes to your landscaping. Yes the guy is a jerk for calling you out. Maybe it is in his sight line? Who knows about the trolls. Your sales team should have told you & so should landscaper.

[Romad]

Who did you have remove your palms. I want to get rid of mine too?

[jparsoneau@aol.com]

There’s always at least one winer usually more

[Hank’s mom]

I want to sell and move also because of this insanity with complaints about beautiful lawns that are not causing a problem. I am very soured on home ownership now!

[Papa_lecki]

Don’t think the ARC system is sustainable. The volume has to be too great for a volunteer run board Ike that.

Wonder how many of these “mistakes” are made?

[Sandy and Ed]

I appreciate the feelings you have but think you should step back and cool down and think it through.

Setbacks are there for a reason and non compliance by others is not a license to do the same.

Like you, I wanted Palm Trees in my new yard 14 years ago. (I am from the north). The image was great at the time. That 12' frond umbrella didn't stop at 12'. Mine is now over 20' and some around here are larger yet. Palm trees are extremely messy and require maintenance, a lot of maintenance. Frond removal, seed pod removal, diamond cuts on removed fronds etc. Perhaps do it yourself for a while with loppers, handsaws, stepladder, extended saws, and then 24 foot extended saws, extension ladders, chainsaws, and did I mention a lot of Band-Aids. At some point as the tree grows older as you also will, you need to hire someone to maintain at $100 per tree perhaps twice a year or pay to have the monster removed along with the stump for $350 or so. I paid to get rid of two Palms that grew so large that they infringed with the roof. Some neighbors found that their Palms became a thruway for Palm Rats to gain easy access to their attics. And bees love the ripening seeds coming out of the seed pods .

I wish some "jerk" had ratted on me. Palm trees belong on beaches or byways for you to view. Enjoy the sight of your neighbors trees which can be seen from your house. After all, you really can't enjoy the sight of yours because they are blocking your windows. When you are outside looking at them, you are looking up and noticing the brown fronds that need to be trimmed. Put Sylvester in the back yard or somewhere you can view from afar. You will save a lot of money.

Buy the "jerk" a Mai Tai.
Amen. First thing we did when we moved in was to remove our queen palms. Love to admire them. Somebody else’s palms, that is.

[mskaggs]

Do you know who complained, or is it just the generic “jerk down the street”? My neighbor had someone complain about his beautiful landscaping, and I feel so icky not knowing who the rat is. Apparently it is someone that the community standards office knows well. I don’t think complainers, especially chronic complainers, should be able to hide behind anonymity.

[MandoMan]

I spent several years wintering here before I bought our home in TV. A major selling point for my wife and I, was the beautiful palms so many people had as part of the landscaping.

Even when purchasing our new home, the salesman assured me, that though I can't get that palm in my front yard, I could replace the ugly tree there with a palm after I closed, as so many other residents have . It seemed obvious the way it was done here.

Now, the AOC tells me I have to remove that palm I waited so long, and paid so much for.

Why? Because someone complained.

Special easement? No. But everyone , yes EVERYONE on my street has a palm in this same location?
Well, no one complained about them. "So , it isn't a problem big enough to do anything about, unless someone complains?" That is how complaint driven works.

This is where I started driving around, looking at how many homes were out of compliance. There are MORE OUT of compliance than IN!! Yep, I just got lucky and had this jerk down the street that doesn't have anything better to do, than police ME.. Why not the house RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET FROM ME???

How far from the street do I need to move this tree? Not inside 15.5' ..... and if I put the lovely landscape wall around the tree at a healthy distance, the wall must be 16.5' from our little side street curb, moving the tree to 21'. the sylvester has a 12' frond spanning back 14' from the required setback and would now touch my house.

I guess the big screwing came from the sales team. Anyone want to buy a house.. with no palm tree, and a real jerk living a couple doors down with nothing better to do than stick his nose in your business?

Make a list of all the trees in your neighborhood with trees in similar positions or even closer to the street and get statements of support for an exception from them, then take the statements to an ARC appeal hearing. Or you could report everyone in your neighborhood with similar trees, and they can all show up to protest at the same time. However, it may be that the other trees are a couple feet farther back.

[photo1902]

So ARC approved the landscaping, in writing, then changed their mind? Was the approval for the same site as the palm was placed?

I thought once ARC approval and kept to the same plan, you were good to go. If they can then change their mind on a site approval, who would dare spend money to potentially have to remove at the whims of ARC

I have a feeling there is more to this story than what’s being written.

[airstreamingypsy]

What a nightmare. Places like The Villages, get volunteers who need a power trip on these boards. It's outrageous how they lower the boom on some, and not others, because some jerk needs a life. With all the activities in TV, you would think they could find something better to do than rat on their neighbors. I've been here for 8 years and have seen horror stories about wounded vets having to clip a foot off their driveway, because someone complained. Stories of 90 year olds, who have lived in their home for 30 years and a new neighbor complained about something that was done 35 years ago. Things that should have been grandfathered in. Little hitlers on power trips.

[joelfmi]

Thank about transparency at the village. I will not to buy there

[midiwiz]

I spent several years wintering here before I bought our home in TV. A major selling point for my wife and I, was the beautiful palms so many people had as part of the landscaping.

Even when purchasing our new home, the salesman assured me, that though I can't get that palm in my front yard, I could replace the ugly tree there with a palm after I closed, as so many other residents have . It seemed obvious the way it was done here.

Now, the AOC tells me I have to remove that palm I waited so long, and paid so much for.

Why? Because someone complained.

Special easement? No. But everyone , yes EVERYONE on my street has a palm in this same location?
Well, no one complained about them. "So , it isn't a problem big enough to do anything about, unless someone complains?" That is how complaint driven works.

This is where I started driving around, looking at how many homes were out of compliance. There are MORE OUT of compliance than IN!! Yep, I just got lucky and had this jerk down the street that doesn't have anything better to do, than police ME.. Why not the house RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET FROM ME???

How far from the street do I need to move this tree? Not inside 15.5' ..... and if I put the lovely landscape wall around the tree at a healthy distance, the wall must be 16.5' from our little side street curb, moving the tree to 21'. the sylvester has a 12' frond spanning back 14' from the required setback and would now touch my house.

I guess the big screwing came from the sales team. Anyone want to buy a house.. with no palm tree, and a real jerk living a couple doors down with nothing better to do than stick his nose in your business?

Arc form or not this is considered selective enforment which is illegal on a federal level. I'd point out selective enforcement. Also if it goes legal I'd do it in Marion or orange counties where they would lose hands down

[joelfmi]

There have been a lot of complaint on living at the village which are not recorded worse than what you stated,

[merrymini]

So many people think they are above the rules here that I have no doubt the inspector is sick of it, although, I have to admit, I do not see uniform application. If they went after everybody, the howling would be heard on the moon. I go for ARC approval before I do anything but when I did my landscaping, my district was still in the construction phase, so I saw a representative of the builder. I was well prepared and it went like a dream.

[Bella6368]

There’s at least one in every neighborhood.

There sure is!

[Marine1974]

Sounds like selective enforcement and maybe discrimination. Sorry to hear you are being singled out .
I would fight it . If yours has to be
moved or removed then all the palms out of compliance should be moved . And the AOC with the bad attitude should be reported for not enforcing other houses . Try the media.

[photo1902]

There have been a lot of complaint on living at the village which are not recorded worse than what you stated,

Huh?

[RICH1]

Don’t fight the system, remove the Palm and Save your money for the Tax increases!

[ChicagoNative]

Is it possible that “lethal bronzing” has something to do with your situation. Queen Palms are said to be particularly vulnerable, but all palms are affected.

[Papa_lecki]

The ARC deed compliance process doesn’t have a process for appeal, if ARC approval is received - only if ARC was denied or without ARC approval.

https://www.districtgov.org/departments/community-standards/images/ARC%20Deed%20Compliance%20Process.pdf

[Daxdog]

I spent several years wintering here before I bought our home in TV. A major selling point for my wife and I, was the beautiful palms so many people had as part of the landscaping.

Even when purchasing our new home, the salesman assured me, that though I can't get that palm in my front yard, I could replace the ugly tree there with a palm after I closed, as so many other residents have . It seemed obvious the way it was done here.

Now, the AOC tells me I have to remove that palm I waited so long, and paid so much for.

Why? Because someone complained.

Special easement? No. But everyone , yes EVERYONE on my street has a palm in this same location?
Well, no one complained about them. "So , it isn't a problem big enough to do anything about, unless someone complains?" That is how complaint driven works.

This is where I started driving around, looking at how many homes were out of compliance. There are MORE OUT of compliance than IN!! Yep, I just got lucky and had this jerk down the street that doesn't have anything better to do, than police ME.. Why not the house RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET FROM ME???

How far from the street do I need to move this tree? Not inside 15.5' ..... and if I put the lovely landscape wall around the tree at a healthy distance, the wall must be 16.5' from our little side street curb, moving the tree to 21'. the sylvester has a 12' frond spanning back 14' from the required setback and would now touch my house.

I guess the big screwing came from the sales team. Anyone want to buy a house.. with no palm tree, and a real jerk living a couple doors down with nothing better to do than stick his nose in your business?
Sorry, you ****ed off the wrong guy, but my story is just as bad. A couple of years ago we had a couple down the street that the wife and husband were off their meds, the sold the house and the day they were to close and move that “reported” 19 houses in the area with things wrong, and if you drive around of course you will many more with small things wrong. Just part of living here, the good, bad and the ugly!

[MartinSE]

The ARC deed compliance process doesn’t have a process for appeal, if ARC approval is received - only if ARC was denied or without ARC approval.

https://www.districtgov.org/departments/community-standards/images/ARC%20Deed%20Compliance%20Process.pdf

I think if you got ARC approval the only way it could be forced to remove is if it is on an easement, and breaks easement rules, like blocking access to the electrical supply box, etc.

So, I have to assume, that the OP went ahead and had the Palm put in without ARC approval. That seems to happen often - people ask if they can change a tree or something, and the salesman says yes after you move it. The buyers then take that as permission, it isn't it is just the truth, you can after you move in, but you have to follow the rules to get approval.

That other people are "breaking" the rules and getting away with it is no reason to get mad when you don't get away with it. We all sign similar code restrictions.

[JCMSr]

In reviewing the ARC application form here a few things the OP failed to mention.
- The following paragraph entitled ACKNOWLEDGEMENT, INDEMNIFICATION, AND HOLD HARMLESS states as follows:

Property owner acknowledges ARC approvals and denials are made in accordance with the District’s adopted Rules, Standards and the information supplied by the property owner. It is the property owners’ responsibility to obtain all necessary permits, government approvals and maintain compliance with all governmental laws, water management district plans, and private restrictions, including but not limited to: building regulations, zoning regulations, plat requirements, permitting, and declaration of restrictions (collectively, the “Laws”).

- ARC applications are either (1) Approved with stipulations or (2) Denied for specific reason(s). One of these stipulations clearly states that “IMPROVEMENTS MADE WITHIN THE RIGHT OF WAY OR EASEMENT AREAS ARE MADE AT THE OWNER’S OWN RISK. THE DISTRICT IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY DAMAGE, LOSS, OR INJIURY RESULTING TO OR FROM PERSONS, PROPERTY OR IMPROVEMENTS, REMOVAL OF IMPROVEMENTS, OR COSTS INCURRED AS A RESULT OF MAINTENANCE OR USE OF THESE AREAS.” Furthermore, said applications include the following statement: “Approval does not waive the property owner’s responsibility/liability for compliance with the Laws as identified herein and otherwise.”

As part of the original application process did the homeowner submit a site plan or boundary survey showing all easements with clear dimensions from the improvements to said easements or property lines? If not, how can it be said that they (the ARC) “missed” that the palm would be too close to the road? I’m sure the OP was paraphrasing when he stated “So even WITH approval, if someone complains the tree or landscape border is too close to the road, you have to move it”. Even though that is not the exact wording in the ARC application, his interpretation is essentially correct. Too bad he only paid attention to this after the fact. What part of “Approval does not waive the property owner’s responsibility/liability for compliance……” did he not understand.

I seriously doubt that the ARC has “waffled on their decision” as some posts have insinuated. It is far more likely that the application submitted for approval either did not contain sufficient information or contained erroneous information supplied by the property owner or his contractor. Too often property owners leave it up to their contractor to complete and submit the applications on their behalf without considering that it is solely the property owner’s signature that is legally binding.

Complaints about selective enforcement are a waste of time. Like it or not the system in most Districts is a complaint driven system. If a complaint is filed, it is investigated, and a violation is either confirmed or dismissed. Unless the process allowed some complaints to be investigated and others to be ignored, there is nothing selective in this process.

Every property owner owes it to himself and his neighbors to read and understand the rules and regulations and abide by them. Pleading ignorance is not now nor has it ever been a valid legal defense. Every property owner signed an agreement to abide by these rules and until they are legally modified, they are, as defined above, “The Law(s).

Stop whining and trying to blame everyone else and look into the mirror. There is a process to make changes but, until then, the current rules are what we agreed to abide by.

[MartinSE]

In reviewing the ARC application form here a few things the OP failed to mention.
- The following paragraph entitled ACKNOWLEDGEMENT, INDEMNIFICATION, AND HOLD HARMLESS states as follows:

Property owner acknowledges ARC approvals and denials are made in accordance with the District’s adopted Rules, Standards and the information supplied by the property owner. It is the property owners’ responsibility to obtain all necessary permits, government approvals and maintain compliance with all governmental laws, water management district plans, and private restrictions, including but not limited to: building regulations, zoning regulations, plat requirements, permitting, and declaration of restrictions (collectively, the “Laws”).

- ARC applications are either (1) Approved with stipulations or (2) Denied for specific reason(s). One of these stipulations clearly states that “IMPROVEMENTS MADE WITHIN THE RIGHT OF WAY OR EASEMENT AREAS ARE MADE AT THE OWNER’S OWN RISK. THE DISTRICT IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY DAMAGE, LOSS, OR INJIURY RESULTING TO OR FROM PERSONS, PROPERTY OR IMPROVEMENTS, REMOVAL OF IMPROVEMENTS, OR COSTS INCURRED AS A RESULT OF MAINTENANCE OR USE OF THESE AREAS.” Furthermore, said applications include the following statement: “Approval does not waive the property owner’s responsibility/liability for compliance with the Laws as identified herein and otherwise.”

As part of the original application process did the homeowner submit a site plan or boundary survey showing all easements with clear dimensions from the improvements to said easements or property lines? If not, how can it be said that they (the ARC) “missed” that the palm would be too close to the road? I’m sure the OP was paraphrasing when he stated “So even WITH approval, if someone complains the tree or landscape border is too close to the road, you have to move it”. Even though that is not the exact wording in the ARC application, his interpretation is essentially correct. Too bad he only paid attention to this after the fact. What part of “Approval does not waive the property owner’s responsibility/liability for compliance……” did he not understand.

I seriously doubt that the ARC has “waffled on their decision” as some posts have insinuated. It is far more likely that the application submitted for approval either did not contain sufficient information or contained erroneous information supplied by the property owner or his contractor. Too often property owners leave it up to their contractor to complete and submit the applications on their behalf without considering that it is solely the property owner’s signature that is legally binding.

Complaints about selective enforcement are a waste of time. Like it or not the system in most Districts is a complaint driven system. If a complaint is filed, it is investigated, and a violation is either confirmed or dismissed. Unless the process allowed some complaints to be investigated and others to be ignored, there is nothing selective in this process.

Every property owner owes it to himself and his neighbors to read and understand the rules and regulations and abide by them. Pleading ignorance is not now nor has it ever been a valid legal defense. Every property owner signed an agreement to abide by these rules and until they are legally modified, they are, as defined above, “The Law(s).

Stop whining and trying to blame everyone else and look into the mirror. There is a process to make changes but, until then, the current rules are what we agreed to abide by.

Pretty much exactly right.

[Papa_lecki]

I think if you got ARC approval the only way it could be forced to remove is if it is on an easement, and breaks easement rules, like blocking access to the electrical supply box, etc.

So, I have to assume, that the OP went ahead and had the Palm put in without ARC approval. That seems to happen often - people ask if they can change a tree or something, and the salesman says yes after you move it. The buyers then take that as permission, it isn't it is just the truth, you can after you move in, but you have to follow the rules to get approval.

That other people are "breaking" the rules and getting away with it is no reason to get mad when you don't get away with it. We all sign similar code restrictions.

There is a clear exception to easements for landscaping put in during construction. So replacement probably would not meet the exception.

Realtor probably didnt know about the easement restriction when replacing something

[JMintzer]

Thank about transparency at the village. I will not to buy there

Yet you post on ToTV...

Color me confused...

[MartinSE]

There is a clear exception to easements for landscaping put in during construction. So replacement probably would not meet the exception.

Realtor probably didnt know about the easement restriction when replacing something

I am, not sure I understood.

Even if there was existing landscaping, changing it requires ARC approval (most conditions).

I got ARC approval for a hedge around the power box in my front yard. Even with ARC approval I had to remove it when I found out from the electric provider at that time that it did not meet their requirements for the safety of their workers. So, we changed it to meet both ARC and Power Company approvals. Not a big deal.

So, anyway. Changes that are to "larger" trees and are visible have to get approval is my understanding.

[RVJim]

What a nightmare. Places like The Villages, get volunteers who need a power trip on these boards. It's outrageous how they lower the boom on some, and not others, because some jerk needs a life. With all the activities in TV, you would think they could find something better to do than rat on their neighbors. I've been here for 8 years and have seen horror stories about wounded vets having to clip a foot off their driveway, because someone complained. Stories of 90 year olds, who have lived in their home for 30 years and a new neighbor complained about something that was done 35 years ago. Things that should have been grandfathered in. Little hitlers on power trips.

Being a “wounded vet” or “90 years old” doesn’t give you any more or less ability to skirt the rules. Justice is blind or at least it should be.

[kendi]

I spent several years wintering here before I bought our home in TV. A major selling point for my wife and I, was the beautiful palms so many people had as part of the landscaping.

Even when purchasing our new home, the salesman assured me, that though I can't get that palm in my front yard, I could replace the ugly tree there with a palm after I closed, as so many other residents have . It seemed obvious the way it was done here.

Now, the AOC tells me I have to remove that palm I waited so long, and paid so much for.

Why? Because someone complained.

Special easement? No. But everyone , yes EVERYONE on my street has a palm in this same location?
Well, no one complained about them. "So , it isn't a problem big enough to do anything about, unless someone complains?" That is how complaint driven works.

This is where I started driving around, looking at how many homes were out of compliance. There are MORE OUT of compliance than IN!! Yep, I just got lucky and had this jerk down the street that doesn't have anything better to do, than police ME.. Why not the house RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET FROM ME???

How far from the street do I need to move this tree? Not inside 15.5' ..... and if I put the lovely landscape wall around the tree at a healthy distance, the wall must be 16.5' from our little side street curb, moving the tree to 21'. the sylvester has a 12' frond spanning back 14' from the required setback and would now touch my house.

I guess the big screwing came from the sales team. Anyone want to buy a house.. with no palm tree, and a real jerk living a couple doors down with nothing better to do than stick his nose in your business?

You can’t get the tree you want. What a tough life you live. We’ll now I guess you’ll have to spend your time enjoying all those other palms on your street.

[sdifede313@aol.com]

Thanks! Now I’ve the reason NOT to move to TV. Who needs to have their lives dictated to?

[MartinSE]

Thanks! Now I’ve the reason NOT to move to TV. Who needs to have their lives dictated to?

No one, please move where you will be happy.

100,000 seem to find happiness here.

[Remembergoldenrule]

You forgot the golden rule of real estate. Buyer beware. . Real estate agents aren’t your friend they just want to make a sale to get their commission. Everyone before you do any landscaping get approval. You need to put the distance from curbs and all of your drawings. Once you have approval, it won’t matter if there is a busy body on your street causing trouble because you have the approval. You can also check out the distances required in the neighborhood you are buying in before you buy. Again, real estate agents just want a commission so actually go to the approval site and ask.

[Remembergoldenrule]

Why are you letting one person and one incident ruin your dreams? Do you really think anywhere you go will be utopia? You have probably worked hard your entire life. It is now time to enjoy your life. Don’t let one person’s action ruined your enjoyment. Enjoyment is a state of mind. Get a potted palm for your screened in porch or plant some smaller variety of palm and enjoy the retirement that you worked your whole life for!

[Marathon Man]

Thanks! Now I’ve the reason NOT to move to TV. Who needs to have their lives dictated to?

Actually, thank YOU for deciding not to move here. There are already too many folks who seem to think that deed restrictions don't apply to them.

[Marathon Man]

Thank about transparency at the village. I will not to buy there

More like CAN'T move here for some reason. Many post on TOTV from someone showing great interest in TV. That is someone who clearly wishes they could live here.

[Glowfromminnesota]

I feel for you. We had a similar situation recently. Helping my mother in law move in. Three weeks we were here off and on. No one said anything, welcome, hello, nice to meet you. Their bushes were growing over our sprinkler system… bushes were actually on our property. My husband trimmed the bottom on our side. The husband and wife came out screaming and I mean really screaming!!! They said they were calling the ARC committee, etc. My husband said do what you have to do all of your bushes are on our property. All of their blinds are closed and you can see where they look out at us. Very sad as they clearly have nothing else to do. Just mean people and no cause for this. Very cranky!

[Marykess1802]

Sorry this happened to you. The power-hungry ARC (wonder how much $$ you have to pay them?). Then there are the b*tchin 🧌 trolls who have nothing better to do. My feeling is, fine me. I’ll be dead before they can collect. LOL

[Djean1981]

Do you know who complained, or is it just the generic “jerk down the street”? My neighbor had someone complain about his beautiful landscaping, and I feel so icky not knowing who the rat is. Apparently it is someone that the community standards office knows well. I don’t think complainers, especially chronic complainers, should be able to hide behind anonymity.
To prevent serial-complainers from terrorizing their neighborhood.
Maybe, complaints from repeat complainers should not be acted upon unless at least two or three complaints are received about an issue.

[airstreamingypsy]

Being a “wounded vet” or “90 years old” doesn’t give you any more or less ability to skirt the rules. Justice is blind or at least it should be.

Wow, you sound nice. I think being a wounded vet, who can't safely get out of his car, should get dispensation. I think a 90 year old widow, who has lived in a house for 30 years, and bought it that way, should be left alone. People like you, not so much.

[JohnSchmidt]

I spent several years wintering here before I bought our home in TV. A major selling point for my wife and I, was the beautiful palms so many people had as part of the landscaping.

Even when purchasing our new home, the salesman assured me, that though I can't get that palm in my front yard, I could replace the ugly tree there with a palm after I closed, as so many other residents have . It seemed obvious the way it was done here.

Now, the AOC tells me I have to remove that palm I waited so long, and paid so much for.

Why? Because someone complained.

Special easement? No. But everyone , yes EVERYONE on my street has a palm in this same location?
Well, no one complained about them. "So , it isn't a problem big enough to do anything about, unless someone complains?" That is how complaint driven works.

This is where I started driving around, looking at how many homes were out of compliance. There are MORE OUT of compliance than IN!! Yep, I just got lucky and had this jerk down the street that doesn't have anything better to do, than police ME.. Why not the house RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET FROM ME???

How far from the street do I need to move this tree? Not inside 15.5' ..... and if I put the lovely landscape wall around the tree at a healthy distance, the wall must be 16.5' from our little side street curb, moving the tree to 21'. the sylvester has a 12' frond spanning back 14' from the required setback and would now touch my house.

I guess the big screwing came from the sales team. Anyone want to buy a house.. with no palm tree, and a real jerk living a couple doors down with nothing better to do than stick his nose in your business?
Sorry that you are being impacted in what seems to be an inconsistent enforcement of the rules - although do we have all of the details? I'm a big proponent of rules as they keep our property values up, but rules need to be enforced on all properties, not just the ones that someone complains about. I would be a bit upset as well .... and I would still inquire as to why it's okay at some homes??

[photo1902]

Wow, you sound nice. I think being a wounded vet, who can't safely get out of his car, should get dispensation. I think a 90 year old widow, who has lived in a house for 30 years, and bought it that way, should be left alone. People like you, not so much.

Please cite your source for the “wounded vet who can’t safely get out of his car”, who needs a “dispensation”. Just curious.

[RVJim]

Wow, you sound nice. I think being a wounded vet, who can't safely get out of his car, should get dispensation. I think a 90 year old widow, who has lived in a house for 30 years, and bought it that way, should be left alone. People like you, not so much.

No, I don’t think justice should favor or disfavor anyone based on veteran status or age. Justice should be blind to anything but the issue at hand. Giving favored treatment based on veteran status or age isn’t the way that community standards should work. We already live in a country of “special interests” that demand accommodations be made to them. Have to draw a line. Sorry buddy, veteran or not, you don’t get to ignore the rules.

[Marathon Man]

Wow, you sound nice. I think being a wounded vet, who can't safely get out of his car, should get dispensation. I think a 90 year old widow, who has lived in a house for 30 years, and bought it that way, should be left alone. People like you, not so much.

I attended all of those meetings. You don't know the facts of the case. What you read in the on-line "news" site was not accurate.

[mtdjed]

Another issue for the recently declared Whiners club. I originally felt sorry for the OP but I can see the resentment from so many against any requirements. Plant your tree wherever you want. Block your neighbor prized view. Put it on a water drain easement. Block access to backyards of others. Plan it so your leaves and tree trash lands in other lawns.

But hopefully you won't ever complain when somebody decides to put up an ugly illegal fence on your shared property.

[Topspinmo]

In reviewing the ARC application form here a few things the OP failed to mention.
- The following paragraph entitled ACKNOWLEDGEMENT, INDEMNIFICATION, AND HOLD HARMLESS states as follows:

Property owner acknowledges ARC approvals and denials are made in accordance with the District’s adopted Rules, Standards and the information supplied by the property owner. It is the property owners’ responsibility to obtain all necessary permits, government approvals and maintain compliance with all governmental laws, water management district plans, and private restrictions, including but not limited to: building regulations, zoning regulations, plat requirements, permitting, and declaration of restrictions (collectively, the “Laws”).

- ARC applications are either (1) Approved with stipulations or (2) Denied for specific reason(s). One of these stipulations clearly states that “IMPROVEMENTS MADE WITHIN THE RIGHT OF WAY OR EASEMENT AREAS ARE MADE AT THE OWNER’S OWN RISK. THE DISTRICT IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY DAMAGE, LOSS, OR INJIURY RESULTING TO OR FROM PERSONS, PROPERTY OR IMPROVEMENTS, REMOVAL OF IMPROVEMENTS, OR COSTS INCURRED AS A RESULT OF MAINTENANCE OR USE OF THESE AREAS.” Furthermore, said applications include the following statement: “Approval does not waive the property owner’s responsibility/liability for compliance with the Laws as identified herein and otherwise.”

As part of the original application process did the homeowner submit a site plan or boundary survey showing all easements with clear dimensions from the improvements to said easements or property lines? If not, how can it be said that they (the ARC) “missed” that the palm would be too close to the road? I’m sure the OP was paraphrasing when he stated “So even WITH approval, if someone complains the tree or landscape border is too close to the road, you have to move it”. Even though that is not the exact wording in the ARC application, his interpretation is essentially correct. Too bad he only paid attention to this after the fact. What part of “Approval does not waive the property owner’s responsibility/liability for compliance……” did he not understand.

I seriously doubt that the ARC has “waffled on their decision” as some posts have insinuated. It is far more likely that the application submitted for approval either did not contain sufficient information or contained erroneous information supplied by the property owner or his contractor. Too often property owners leave it up to their contractor to complete and submit the applications on their behalf without considering that it is solely the property owner’s signature that is legally binding.

Complaints about selective enforcement are a waste of time. Like it or not the system in most Districts is a complaint driven system. If a complaint is filed, it is investigated, and a violation is either confirmed or dismissed. Unless the process allowed some complaints to be investigated and others to be ignored, there is nothing selective in this process.

Every property owner owes it to himself and his neighbors to read and understand the rules and regulations and abide by them. Pleading ignorance is not now nor has it ever been a valid legal defense. Every property owner signed an agreement to abide by these rules and until they are legally modified, they are, as defined above, “The Law(s).

Stop whining and trying to blame everyone else and look into the mirror. There is a process to make changes but, until then, the current rules are what we agreed to abide by.


So ARC is just bunch of Bs jumping through hoops and in the end the approval means nothing.

[Topspinmo]

Actually, thank YOU for deciding not to move here. There are already too many folks who seem to think that deed restrictions don't apply to them.

What difference does it make if ARC approval means nothing. Actually if lots of us k new all the in’s and outs we probably would of winged off the koolaid and be out.

[Altavia]

It should take as much work to file a complaint as it does to request approval of a change.

The complaint should be required to include documented evidence of non compliance and as much backup information about the property as it takes to make a change.

We had a false complaint for "unapproved" work completed by the developer prior to purchase. We were included in 36 complaints filed by one person.

It was dismissed but there was the time and aggravation receiving the letter from an attorney and showing the complaint was false.

[rherb55]

So we all understand what’s going on in your case, did you submit an ARC application before making any changes?

It probably wouldn’t make a difference if he had gotten permission from the board. They get one complaint from one busybody and BOOM you loose….

[airstreamingypsy]

Please cite your source for the “wounded vet who can’t safely get out of his car”, who needs a “dispensation”. Just curious.

Well, it won't let me post the URL for the online news source. I'll try sending you a private message. Well that didn't work either. Go to the online news source and hit the magnifying glass and put this in. patio-villa-owners-face-prospect-of-ripping-up-out-of-compliance-driveways/
.

[Daxdog]

Isn’t it odd how the AOC works, we have a Canadian (gone back north) here who cut down a palm down and left the stump, talked to AOC three times before they did anything, still waiting for it to be removed.

[Rodneysblue]

Rules for thee not for me.

[Raybe]

I appreciate the feelings you have but think you should step back and cool down and think it through.

Setbacks are there for a reason and non compliance by others is not a license to do the same.

Like you, I wanted Palm Trees in my new yard 14 years ago. (I am from the north). The image was great at the time. That 12' frond umbrella didn't stop at 12'. Mine is now over 20' and some around here are larger yet. Palm trees are extremely messy and require maintenance, a lot of maintenance. Frond removal, seed pod removal, diamond cuts on removed fronds etc. Perhaps do it yourself for a while with loppers, handsaws, stepladder, extended saws, and then 24 foot extended saws, extension ladders, chainsaws, and did I mention a lot of Band-Aids. At some point as the tree grows older as you also will, you need to hire someone to maintain at $100 per tree perhaps twice a year or pay to have the monster removed along with the stump for $350 or so. I paid to get rid of two Palms that grew so large that they infringed with the roof. Some neighbors found that their Palms became a thruway for Palm Rats to gain easy access to their attics. And bees love the ripening seeds coming out of the seed pods .

I wish some "jerk" had ratted on me. Palm trees belong on beaches or byways for you to view. Enjoy the sight of your neighbors trees which can be seen from your house. After all, you really can't enjoy the sight of yours because they are blocking your windows. When you are outside looking at them, you are looking up and noticing the brown fronds that need to be trimmed. Put Sylvester in the back yard or somewhere you can view from afar. You will save a lot of money.

Buy the "jerk" a Mai Tai.

You nailed it. I have been here for many years and my experience has been exactly as you so well state.

[daddymac1127]

ARC performs a very important function. My firsthand experience was that the members are very kniwledgeable of the restrictions. Their approvals are based upon those restructions. Who actually has the time and legal expertise to read through their 30+ page restrictions. Of course their approval can have limitations but they are reviewing 100s of applications a week. Of course mistakes can be made particularly if not all the information is submitted with the application. I urge that everyone just sit in on one of their 4 hour meetings for just a half hour.

[bp243]

I spent several years wintering here before I bought our home in TV. A major selling point for my wife and I, was the beautiful palms so many people had as part of the landscaping.

Even when purchasing our new home, the salesman assured me, that though I can't get that palm in my front yard, I could replace the ugly tree there with a palm after I closed, as so many other residents have . It seemed obvious the way it was done here.

Now, the AOC tells me I have to remove that palm I waited so long, and paid so much for.

Why? Because someone complained.

Special easement? No. But everyone , yes EVERYONE on my street has a palm in this same location?
Well, no one complained about them. "So , it isn't a problem big enough to do anything about, unless someone complains?" That is how complaint driven works.

This is where I started driving around, looking at how many homes were out of compliance. There are MORE OUT of compliance than IN!! Yep, I just got lucky and had this jerk down the street that doesn't have anything better to do, than police ME.. Why not the house RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET FROM ME???

How far from the street do I need to move this tree? Not inside 15.5' ..... and if I put the lovely landscape wall around the tree at a healthy distance, the wall must be 16.5' from our little side street curb, moving the tree to 21'. the sylvester has a 12' frond spanning back 14' from the required setback and would now touch my house.

I guess the big screwing came from the sales team. Anyone want to buy a house.. with no palm tree, and a real jerk living a couple doors down with nothing better to do than stick his nose in your business?

Here’s what you do: Ask every neighbor in your area (via a short letter) and including the neighbor who turned you in, to sign their name and address that having you add a palm tree in your front area is fine with them. Then your nasty neighbor will at least have to face you in person.

[RVJim]

Here’s what you do: Ask every neighbor in your area (via a short letter) and including the neighbor who turned you in, to sign their name and address that having you add a palm tree in your front area is fine with them. Then your nasty neighbor will at least have to face you in person.

What if more than one person refuses to sign? Or what if everyone refuses to sign. Your premise is that only one person dislikes the palm tree. Maybe everyone dislikes it but only one person disliked it enough to complain. Where there is one there are usually more.

[DAVES]

I spent several years wintering here before I bought our home in TV. A major selling point for my wife and I, was the beautiful palms so many people had as part of the landscaping.

Even when purchasing our new home, the salesman assured me, that though I can't get that palm in my front yard, I could replace the ugly tree there with a palm after I closed, as so many other residents have . It seemed obvious the way it was done here.

Now, the AOC tells me I have to remove that palm I waited so long, and paid so much for.

Why? Because someone complained.

Special easement? No. But everyone , yes EVERYONE on my street has a palm in this same location?
Well, no one complained about them. "So , it isn't a problem big enough to do anything about, unless someone complains?" That is how complaint driven works.

This is where I started driving around, looking at how many homes were out of compliance. There are MORE OUT of compliance than IN!! Yep, I just got lucky and had this jerk down the street that doesn't have anything better to do, than police ME.. Why not the house RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET FROM ME???

How far from the street do I need to move this tree? Not inside 15.5' ..... and if I put the lovely landscape wall around the tree at a healthy distance, the wall must be 16.5' from our little side street curb, moving the tree to 21'. the sylvester has a 12' frond spanning back 14' from the required setback and would now touch my house.

I guess the big screwing came from the sales team. Anyone want to buy a house.. with no palm tree, and a real jerk living a couple doors down with nothing better to do than stick his nose in your business?

As far as your palm and who reported you. We always get one side of every story and it always says the poster is right. It seems the AOC has told you WHY.

There are plusses and minuses to our congested life style. You rights end where the next persons rights begin.

There is some truth in this. Before buying in the villages I became aware of an island of several acres with a house and a small herd of horses on it. Price was a million bucks.
I WOULD BE KING OF MY ISLAND. The QUEEN VETOED THE IDEA. The AOC has an often difficult job to do. Neighbors calling each other jerks never leads to a happy ending.