Bitcoin Explained in plain english

[MorTech]

precisely...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpJ7xIQZ34k

Why the parasites don't like Bitcoin.

[DylanTodd]

To further support the video the OP put up, watch this one from the 10 min mark to learn just how much bitcoin you need to carry as your hedge against inflation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfGcKHv5P_w&fbclid=IwAR3qZe4PeRAbG9IKuflr280DSlqgLZBUDWMH3e-MhGX8-9FWVJfPuGr-E-4

MorTech, are you already part of our Villages Crypto Club? If not reach out to me at dylanwaynetodd@gmail.com.

Cheers,

Dylan

[manaboutown]

The Emperor's New Clothes. Hans Christian Andersen : The Emperor's New Clothes (https://andersen.sdu.dk/vaerk/hersholt/TheEmperorsNewClothes_e.html)

[retiredguy123]

I have never bought any bitcoins, and this thread has not changed my mind about them.

[Caymus]

Bitcoin had a bad weekend. Down to 24,000 today

[MorTech]

I am not a joiner :)

Trying to discuss "What is Money" with people is like trying to discuss with a 5 year old why cookies are bad for you.

I predict the Russian Ruble will be 1:1 with the USD within 2 years :)

[Pballer]

Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme. Too volatile to serve as a medium of exchange or store of value. A solution in search of problem that wastes enormous amounts of electricity to solve mathematical puzzles. Will eventually settle at its intrinsic value - 0.

[tophcfa]

If that’s plain English then I need to brush up on my English skills.

[Worldseries27]

i am not a joiner :)

trying to discuss "what is money" with people is like trying to discuss with a 5 year old why cookies are bad for you.

I predict the russian ruble will be 1:1 with the usd within 2 years :)
look in the ball. I need the dates

[Worldseries27]

to further support the video the op put up, watch this one from the 10 min mark to learn just how much bitcoin you need to carry as your hedge against inflation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfgckhv5p_w&fbclid=iwar3qze4perabg9ikuflr280dslqglzbudwmh3e-mhgx8-9fwvjfpugr-e-4

mortech, are you already part of our villages crypto club? If not reach out to me at dylanwaynetodd@gmail.com.

Cheers,

dylan
wheres the chapter on world domination

[jdulej]

To further support the video the OP put up, watch this one from the 10 min mark to learn just how much bitcoin you need to carry as your hedge against inflation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfGcKHv5P_w&fbclid=IwAR3qZe4PeRAbG9IKuflr280DSlqgLZBUDWMH3e-MhGX8-9FWVJfPuGr-E-4

MorTech, are you already part of our Villages Crypto Club? If not reach out to me at dylanwaynetodd@gmail.com.

Cheers,

Dylan

How's that hedge working out right now?

[toeser]

precisely...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpJ7xIQZ34k

Why the parasites don't like Bitcoin.

Very interesting talk and concepts. I understand what he's saying, but I guess I'm old fashioned enough to prefer owning something with intrinsic value of some kind.

[kbace6]

To further support the video the OP put up, watch this one from the 10 min mark to learn just how much bitcoin you need to carry as your hedge against inflation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfGcKHv5P_w&fbclid=IwAR3qZe4PeRAbG9IKuflr280DSlqgLZBUDWMH3e-MhGX8-9FWVJfPuGr-E-4

MorTech, are you already part of our Villages Crypto Club? If not reach out to me at dylanwaynetodd@gmail.com.

Cheers,

Dylan

Bitcoin can be explained in 2 words. "Financial Sovereignty" It is really no more complicated than that.

[kbace6]

Bitcoin had a bad weekend. Down to 24,000 today

Ultimately I expect it to go down to near $3,850 sometime early next year which was the COVID low before all the money printing accelerated everything. After that, it will take about a year or so to get back to its ATH again.

I do think it is a near certainty that it goes below $10k. But I do expect it will go down below $5k.

[Fastskiguy]

Ultimately I expect it to go down to near $3,850 sometime early next year which was the COVID low before all the money printing accelerated everything. After that, it will take about a year or so to get back to its ATH again.

I do think it is a near certainty that it goes below $10k. But I do expect it will go down below $5k.

That is a bold call, it'll be interesting to see if it happens. I might just save up some $$ and start buying if it falls below $10K or so.

Joe

[Babubhat]

precisely...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpJ7xIQZ34k

Why the parasites don't like Bitcoin.

It is not an inflation hedge, should be 100k now if so. It is a risk on Asset that you need a bigger fool to buy if it isn’t stolen from you. Plain old gambling. Bet what you can afford.

[DAVES]

precisely...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpJ7xIQZ34k

Why the parasites don't like Bitcoin.

My view. When, you post stuff like,"Why parasites don't like bitcoin," do expect a positive effect? I do not own bitcoin but have no choice but to be aware of it.

It is interesting that it has spread this far. It's "value," is compared to the dollar. The dollar is no longer backed by gold and silver, Nixon as well as opening trade with China, did that. The dollar is backed by the full faith and credit of the United States.
I think most would think that is of depreciating value.

Bitcoin is backed by NOTHING. Even who or what created it is unknown. HUH? You can buy fake real estate and even non-existent yachts in the non-existent world called the metaverse.

A better currency? Bitcoin regularly swings 6% plus on a day. Our stock market is down, if I recall 14% from it's peak. Our dollar has lost CPI 8.7%. Bitcoin has lost half it's ?? Value.

It is so much like the Ponzi scheme of 300 years ago on tulip bulbs.

[Fastskiguy]

It is interesting that it has spread this far. It's "value," is compared to the dollar. The dollar is no longer backed by gold and silver, Nixon as well as opening trade with China, did that. The dollar is backed by the full faith and credit of the United States.
I think most would think that is of depreciating value.

Bitcoin is backed by NOTHING. Even who or what created it is unknown. HUH? You can buy fake real estate and even non-existent yachts in the non-existent world called the metaverse.

A better currency? Bitcoin regularly swings 6% plus on a day. Our stock market is down, if I recall 14% from it's peak. Our dollar has lost CPI 8.7%. Bitcoin has lost half it's ?? Value.

It is so much like the Ponzi scheme of 300 years ago on tulip bulbs.

I think you've just said it yourself, the dollar is of depreciating value. There are 1/3rd more dollars now vs. just 3 years ago. It's true bitcoin is volatile....but it's a measure of value that governments can't jack with. They can't just print more bitcoin. If you dislike government shenanigans with money then bitcoin starts to look pretty appealing.

As far as non existent yachts in a non existent world...well I'd use the coca cola logo as an example. It's red ink on white paper, nothing more, but it's obviously worth a lot of money so maybe it's the same for these new types of "things"?

Joe

[MorTech]

Bitcoin can be explained in 2 words. "Financial Sovereignty" It is really no more complicated than that.

It is the only property that you can actually own...No Counterparty, limited to 21M Bitcoins, and cannot be stolen from you by parasites like muggers, voters, and their politicians. It is highly volatile in terms of fiat currency so you need good speculation skills. It would be nice if people actually watched/understood the video before commenting. It does require conceptual thinking ability. He is a MIT scientist.

[MorTech]

With the "You will own nothing and you will be happy" parasites infesting the entire world, you would be a fool not to own Bitcoin.

[tophcfa]

It does require conceptual thinking ability. He is a MIT scientist.

MIT scientist? I worked with a bunch of actuaries who were considered mathematical superstars and could pass all kinds of difficult tests. The other side of the coin was that they wore loafers because they couldn’t figure out how to tie their shoes. Sometimes book smarts and street smart’s don’t necessarily intersect.

[tophcfa]

Bitcoin can be explained in 2 words. "Financial Sovereignty" It is really no more complicated than that.

Explained in four words and one statistic, “ down 54% year to date”.

[ElDiabloJoe]

MIT scientist? ... Sometimes book smarts and street smart’s don’t necessarily intersect.

Sometimes? I think Most times is more accurate, in my experience.

[Fastskiguy]

Explained in four words and one statistic, “ down 54% year to date”.

I think the big question is…..will Bitcoin go up or down vs the dlollar over the next 10 years? Inflation is really a thing these days for dollars but volatility is a thing for Bitcoin.

Joe

[manaboutown]

What Bill Gates recently said:

Bloomberg - Are you a robot? (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-15/bill-gates-blasts-crypto-nfts-as-based-on-greater-fool-theory)

[Fastskiguy]

What Bill Gates recently said:

Bloomberg - Are you a robot? (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-15/bill-gates-blasts-crypto-nfts-as-based-on-greater-fool-theory)

He poo poos crypto along with nfts and claims they don’t solve a problem. Which kinda means he doesn’t appreciate how crypto allows everyone to “hold the ledger” instead of only a chosen few.

Joe

[valuemkt]

PARASITES ??
Have a read at history, as those that don;t understand history are doomed to repeat it.
Dutch Tulip Bulb Market Bubble Definition (https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/dutch_tulip_bulb_market_bubble.asp)

[DAVES]

I think you've just said it yourself, the dollar is of depreciating value. There are 1/3rd more dollars now vs. just 3 years ago. It's true bitcoin is volatile....but it's a measure of value that governments can't jack with. They can't just print more bitcoin. If you dislike government shenanigans with money then bitcoin starts to look pretty appealing.

As far as non existent yachts in a non existent world...well I'd use the coca cola logo as an example. It's red ink on white paper, nothing more, but it's obviously worth a lot of money so maybe it's the same for these new types of "things"?

Joe

I must be old fashioned I see no relationship between bit coin and the value of the COKE logo.

In terms of an investment, I own K as stated I do not own bitcoin and have no faith in it.
Buying something where it is unknown who created it. Faith that it can't be reproduced? Actual bitcoins, there are tons of fakes around. As stated, compared, the tulip bulb Ponzi Scheme some made a lot of money due to wild swings. Bitcoin offers that. Right now the swing is DOWN and that seems to be the momentum. Will it change? Will it recover to the price you paid? I do not know. I truly wish you well.
I'm not in it. I've given my reasons.

A store of value? All kinds of thing have been used as money. A buck was a a buck, a deerskin. A shot of whiskey was because you could trade a bullet for it. Bitcoin the value changes every second, you need a WORKING computer and a broker to turn it into coin of the realm.

In terms of investing, bitcoin is not the only thing I am not buying.

[MorTech]

He poo poos crypto along with nfts and claims they don’t solve a problem. Which kinda means he doesn’t appreciate how crypto allows everyone to “hold the ledger” instead of only a chosen few.

Joe

The parasites hate Bitcoin because they want to "hold the ledger" so they can continue to own us all. Control the oil you control the nation. Control the food you control the people. Control the money you own everything and everyone. Imagine if you could "legally" type whatever number you wanted into your own bank account. You could literally steal everything from everyone. That's what they do. They call this theft "Central Banking".

Bitcoin: No Counterparty...It is not a security...It is property.

Try and follow this :) In terms of physical reality, aka, energy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXix6OIU1hw

LOL!

[Fastskiguy]

I must be old fashioned I see no relationship between bit coin and the value of the COKE logo.

In terms of an investment, I own K as stated I do not own bitcoin and have no faith in it.
Buying something where it is unknown who created it. Faith that it can't be reproduced? Actual bitcoins, there are tons of fakes around. As stated, compared, the tulip bulb Ponzi Scheme some made a lot of money due to wild swings. Bitcoin offers that. Right now the swing is DOWN and that seems to be the momentum. Will it change? Will it recover to the price you paid? I do not know. I truly wish you well.
I'm not in it. I've given my reasons.

A store of value? All kinds of thing have been used as money. A buck was a a buck, a deerskin. A shot of whiskey was because you could trade a bullet for it. Bitcoin the value changes every second, you need a WORKING computer and a broker to turn it into coin of the realm.

In terms of investing, bitcoin is not the only thing I am not buying.

Can’t argue about volatility but this pullback isn’t as big as 17-18 was. And you do need a computer but a certain amount of infrastructure is needed for most anything these days. I’m not aware of any fake Bitcoin out there… that’s one of the best things about it.

Will it go the way of the pet rock or the the way of the internet?

Joe

[tophcfa]

Will it go the way of the pet rock or the the way of the internet?

Or the way of Enron?

[Fastskiguy]

Or the way of Enron?

Ha! I don’t think so but there is a nonzero chance that it could happen!

Joe

[CoachKandSportsguy]

LOL! I love listening to cult BS. There are so many right now, as thieves / crooks / get rich quick schemes / sociopaths / etc love the game. NFT were just another game created by the believers. The funniest part is that thieves steal each others' thieve's currency, which makes the whole implementation fraudulent.

block chain tries to solve the byzantine general game theory problem, Byzantine fault - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_fault) and its the best solution so far. However, that doesn't make it economically viable on a mass scale as an asset class nor a money as a store of value for trading for goods and services.

the cult dudes don't even know when they are in the cult, and after some people come out, they can't believe how brain washed they were. . . . time to read up on abnormal psychology and behavioral finance to understand the intersection of money mania periods.

good luck to the cult. . . and yes, I have studied economic history in grad school, and have traded / invested / speculated over 40 years, so i have some experience in reality. . even the great Jesse Livermore died broke, but his great granddaughter is a beautiful porn star!

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Its kind of like this video. . .

https://pbs.twimg.com/ext_tw_video_thumb/1544021671706755072/pu/img/X8zBzeKkAQcFRlHl?format=jpg&name=small

herding in human behavior. . .

LOL!

[Fastskiguy]

And when the automobile was introduced people just wanted faster horses. You never really know until you have the benefit of hindsight.

Joe

[CoachKandSportsguy]

And when the automobile was introduced people just wanted faster horses. You never really know until you have the benefit of hindsight.

Joe

maybe, or maybe one has enough experience in the game to realize a fraud when one sees one. . . there are lots of ideas which fail which if you seen them , you get the idea that its a solution looking for a personal problem.

[MorTech]

LOL! I love listening to cult BS. There are so many right now, as thieves / crooks / get rich quick schemes / sociopaths / etc love the game. NFT were just another game created by the believers. The funniest part is that thieves steal each others' thieve's currency, which makes the whole implementation fraudulent.

block chain tries to solve the byzantine general game theory problem, Byzantine fault - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_fault) and its the best solution so far. However, that doesn't make it economically viable on a mass scale as an asset class nor a money as a store of value for trading for goods and services.

the cult dudes don't even know when they are in the cult, and after some people come out, they can't believe how brain washed they were. . . . time to read up on abnormal psychology and behavioral finance to understand the intersection of money mania periods.

good luck to the cult. . . and yes, I have studied economic history in grad school, and have traded / invested / speculated over 40 years, so i have some experience in reality. . even the great Jesse Livermore died broke, but his great granddaughter is a beautiful porn star!

What solves the "economic problem" of every political currency on earth rapidly falling to zero value? I don't think you understand what a "cult" is...Bitcoin is digital property that is limited in quantity and can't be stolen from you by muggers and voters.

[justjim]

If Buffet (warren) buys Bitcoin I’m in. Until then I’m out.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

What solves the "economic problem" of every political currency on earth rapidly falling to zero value? I don't think you understand what a "cult" is...Bitcoin is digital property that is limited in quantity and can't be stolen from you by muggers and voters.

LOL! keep repeating the cult BS so it becomes more true!

[manaboutown]

What solves the "economic problem" of every political currency on earth rapidly falling to zero value? I don't think you understand what a "cult" is...Bitcoin is digital property that is limited in quantity and can't be stolen from you by muggers and voters.

Bitcoin is air pudding and walk about pie. lol

[MorTech]

LOL! keep repeating the cult BS so it becomes more true!

I don't think you understand what a "cult" actually is :)
BTW - You didn't even try to answer my question. Any ideas, Economist?

If Jesse Livermore were alive today, he would borrow $1B and buy Bitcoin...Then he would fake his own death :) It is the only way I can think of to be truly free in this world of Central Bank counterfeit :)

[MorTech]

Bitcoin is air pudding and walk about pie. lol

Alrighty then.

[tophcfa]

It is the only way I can think of to be truly free in this world of Central Bank counterfeit :)

Hmmmmm, being down 57% year to date is really liberating?

[MorTech]

Hmmmmm, being down 57% year to date is really liberating?

What is the rate of return over 5 years? 10 years? Bitcoin was under one dollar about 10 years ago...Apple (Talking about a cult) was at about a buck in 2003. Of course it is going to fluctuate wildly against fiat currency. Like all assets since October 1987 when Greenspan implemented his institutional corruption program...Put in overdrive by the Clinton, Rubin, Greenspan trio :)

[CoachKandSportsguy]

And the US banking system is fractional, as are the crypto schemes. . . and your comment about all currencies going to zero says everything about cult beliefs. . .

[tophcfa]

What is the rate of return over 5 years? 10 years? Bitcoin was under one dollar about 10 years ago...Apple (Talking about a cult) was at about a buck in 2003. Of course it is going to fluctuate wildly against fiat currency. Like all assets since October 1987 when Greenspan implemented his institutional corruption program...Put in overdrive by the Clinton, Rubin, Greenspan trio :)

Last time I checked, Apple was a company, not a cult. Unlike Bitcoin, they actually publish audited financial statements, produce good and services that are in strong consumer demand, they have assets, equity, employ people, and produce lots of cash flow. Those are all things that can be quantified, projected into the future, and discounted to arrive at real value.

And this post was sent from my iPad and will be read by lots of people using Apple products.

[tvbound]

Personally, I'm pretty satisfied with the Oracle of Omaha's guidance and that I didn't bet on MLM/Ponzi based crypto. It seems that quite a few didn't/don't - feel the same way.

[valuemkt]

The Greater Fool Theory is the idea that, during a market bubble, one can make money by buying overvalued assets and selling them for a profit later, because it will always be possible to find someone who is willing to pay a higher price. And Bitcoin isnt even an asset, unless you thought a Tulip was an asset in the 1600s. With Crypto exchanges declaring bankruptcy and halting redemptions, perhaps reality is setting in .. SELL SELL SELL .. but to whom ?

[Fastskiguy]

The Greater Fool Theory is the idea that, during a market bubble, one can make money by buying overvalued assets and selling them for a profit later, because it will always be possible to find someone who is willing to pay a higher price. And Bitcoin isnt even an asset, unless you thought a Tulip was an asset in the 1600s. With Crypto exchanges declaring bankruptcy and halting redemptions, perhaps reality is setting in .. SELL SELL SELL .. but to whom ?

It could be like that....but it could also be like trading currencies. The nice thing about bitcoin as a currency is that the government can't decide to print more. The number of bitcoin is fixed. So like in 2020-21 where they created 1/3rd again as many dollars as we had before...well with bitcoin you can't do that. The problem with creating more dollars is that you just might end up with inflation (oops!).

Now bitcoin has been a lot more volatile than (a lot of) other currencies over the years but it may settle down and become an actual thing. And then you might just wish you had some. Or maybe it'll go to zero, who knows?

And with that I'm off to buy some $4.35/gal gas!

Joe

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Just a quick crypto update:

Terra Luna - $40 billion of investors money lost
3AC - from $10 billion in assets to bankruptcy
Voyager - owes $1.3 billion to 100,000 creditors
Celsius - owes millions to over 100,000 creditors, files for bankruptcy

with no inherent value behind the letters and numbers, its just another ponzi scheme, and mostly taken advantage by criminals

finance guy

[Fastskiguy]

Just a quick crypto update:

Terra Luna - $40 billion of investors money lost
3AC - from $10 billion in assets to bankruptcy
Voyager - owes $1.3 billion to 100,000 creditors
Celsius - owes millions to over 100,000 creditors, files for bankruptcy

with no inherent value behind the letters and numbers, its just another ponzi scheme, and mostly taken advantage by criminals

finance guy

I don’t think anyone expects every cryptocurrency of the hundreds of options to be safe and solid. People can lose money in stocks and currencies too. BTC is down more than your SPY and The Dollar but they are all down for the year.

Joe

[MorTech]

Bitcoin is a digital property...The other cryptos are Securities.
Anyway...Cookies are bad for you.

[MorTech]

Last time I checked, Apple was a company, not a cult. Unlike Bitcoin, they actually publish audited financial statements, produce good and services that are in strong consumer demand, they have assets, equity, employ people, and produce lots of cash flow. Those are all things that can be quantified, projected into the future, and discounted to arrive at real value.

And this post was sent from my iPad and will be read by lots of people using Apple products.

Do you mean you don't understand the difference between Bitcoin and Apple? Seriously? Do you understand the difference between a Security and a Property?

[MorTech]

It could be like that....but it could also be like trading currencies. The nice thing about bitcoin as a currency is that the government can't decide to print more. The number of bitcoin is fixed. So like in 2020-21 where they created 1/3rd again as many dollars as we had before...well with bitcoin you can't do that. The problem with creating more dollars is that you just might end up with inflation (oops!).

Now bitcoin has been a lot more volatile than (a lot of) other currencies over the years but it may settle down and become an actual thing. And then you might just wish you had some. Or maybe it'll go to zero, who knows?

And with that I'm off to buy some $4.35/gal gas!

Joe

The thieves created about 40% more digital dollars in order to steal...Causing inflation which is even greater theft since inflation steals from everyone. A millionaire doesn't care much but a $60k office dweller is demoralized.

John Law would be proud that Central Bank Counterfeit is still going on...and on...and on.

[Arctic Fox]

"Chainalysis" - look it up before using your digital currency for nefarious purposes

[CoachKandSportsguy]

OOPS, there goes another

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Do you mean you don't understand the difference between Bitcoin and Apple? Seriously? Do you understand the difference between a Security and a Property?

LOL! asking a CFA and a former portfolio manager a question about his knowledge after 40 years in the career. . .

priceless

[Babubhat]

Bitcoin has no incremental buyer at these levels. It’s about Fomo and conning institutions to jam money into a finite space to get the price up. Will be plenty of bag holders

[MorTech]

LOL! asking a CFA and a former portfolio manager a question about his knowledge after 40 years in the career. . .

priceless

Yup..Sure am! You really think a 40 year CFA knows better than a self-made billionaire with a MIT degree?

Priceless

[MorTech]

Jeebus, people! At least watch the video before commenting. You might have to watch it a few times to grasp the concepts. Bitcoin is available to everyone on Earth with access to a $50 smartphone.

The full discussion is here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49FhysfWX1M

[Babubhat]

Crypto implosion at FTX. The emperor has no clothes. When they tell you everything if fine it’s time to run away.

Sam Bankman-Fried No Longer a Billionaire After $14.6B Overnight Wipe-out (https://www.yahoo.com/now/sam-bankman-fried-no-longer-014407946.html)

[Caymus]

Crypto implosion at FTX. The emperor has no clothes. When they tell you everything if fine it’s time to run away.

Sam Bankman-Fried No Longer a Billionaire After $14.6B Overnight Wipe-out (https://www.yahoo.com/now/sam-bankman-fried-no-longer-014407946.html)

They had a 1930's style "run on the bank". On another note, naming rights for FTX Arena in Miami may be available:D

[ElDiabloJoe]

Yup..Sure am! You really think a 40 year CFA knows better than a self-made billionaire with a MIT degree?

Priceless
I would absolutely take the 40 yr experienced CFA (NOT a CFP) over the self-made billionaire with an MIT degree. That just tells me he is an excellent engineer that managed to fill a very large, previously-unfilled, niche in the market. It doesn't tell me he knows a fig about financial theory and the inner workings of the money industry. It tells me he knows how to make a motherboard. As a guy with an advanced degree from a private Division I university, I will tell you, I don't give a whole lot of weight to if / where someone went to college. MIT is no different, it doesn't have the cache with everyone you think it does. Nor do any of the ivies.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

I would absolutely take the 40 yr experienced CFA (NOT a CFP) over the self-made billionaire with an MIT degree.

The difference between finance and engineering? fairly straight word:

engineering used the physical laws of nature, which have very specific properties and very, very narrow std deviations of differences, validated over and over again.

finance and economics are abstract concepts, finance about valuations based upon the future. Economics is about how humans manage money and make decisions about money, which has very large standard deviations, and results from the conceptual thoughts and feelings emanating from the brain.

neither is smarter than the other, but different yes, and seldom do these skills cross over very well into the other area of expertise

but you are all free to believe whatever you want to believe

philosophy guy

[Fastskiguy]

BTC is sub $17K right now, it's tough being a bull at this point in history!

Joe

[CoachKandSportsguy]

BTC is sub $17K right now, it's tough being a bull at this point in history!

Joe

If you look at many, many new product companies, there is a very fast growth, and then slowly, other products are produced to compete, and with more supply and competition, the price drops and eventually these new product companies go to commodity status. . . meaning that the expected growth is the same as the economy, unless the company internally mismanages the cash and the company goes bankrupt. . such as carvana,
perfect chart of hot company and then mismanages cash flow through greed and other insider enrichment schemes, and now they are near zero and will be bankrupt within a year

nothing new with crypto currency, other than its a thieve's currency

[CoachKandSportsguy]

“How did you go bankrupt?” Bill asked.
“Two ways,” Mike said. “Gradually and then suddenly.”
The dialogue above is from Ernest Hemingway’s 1926 novel, The Sun Also Rises

[Two Bills]

After reading many of the comments on The Yahoo site regarding the collapse, I thought this was the best and most relevant quote.

""If $14.6 billion was wiped out overnight, I'm guessing it was never really there to begin with.""

[MorTech]

Video for thinking people...Fitting after the mid-term election.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcjFrIMw2sI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uix5BrzMTBM

Time to withdrawal consent?

[CoachKandSportsguy]

you really think a 40 year cfa knows better than a self-made billionaire with a mit degree?


lol! Yup!

[Caymus]

lol! Yup!

SBF will be serving some jail time. Are the Bahamian jails nicer than those in the US?

[Boomer]

“It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so,” said Mark Twain……..

Seems like that quote applies to this mess.

I never had any interest in this type of investment — never smelled right to me…….but I do recall a couple of threads on here that were rather mocking of more traditional investors who either showed no interest or pointed out the potential for collapse.

CNBC can’t seem to talk about anything else this morning.

The emperor is buck nekkid.

Boomer

[tophcfa]

Some things are difficult to see coming, but this wasn’t.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

“It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so,” said Mark Twain……..

Seems like that quote applies to this mess.

Boomer

From an investor point of view yes, but from a crypto point of view, no, there is no regulation, so its a wild, wild west for thieves, and if you thought that everyone played nice in the wild, wild west, you read the wrong books. If anyone reads the history of banking in the 1800s and early 1900s, they will understand the reason for the centralization and standardization of the banking system. History does rhyme here.

As far as any belief in engineering credentials can override human behavior, doesn't matter, behavioral economics rules, which has nothing to do with economic equations. . .

[MorTech]

Understanding the Bitcoin dynamic requires high-order conceptual thinking ability as well as higher-order finance. All others can do is just watch their television to be told what to think by people who are trying to own them.

[MorTech]

Bitcoin is a digital property.
FTX is an unregulated security.
Only a fool would knowingly/willingly take on counterparty risk.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

BREAKING: FTX had a “backdoor” built into its accounting software by SBF, which he used to move billions without triggering alerts to other staff, auditors etc - Reuters

BREAKING: SBF was trying to sell his 7.6% share of Robinhood, worth $472M, on the app Signal. The shares were held by an Antigua and Barbuda entity called Emergent Fidelity, which is personally controlled by Bankman-Fried and NOT included in the FTX bankruptcy filing." - Financial Times

Add FTX name to the list:
Lehman, Bear Stearns, Enron, Archegos, 3AC, Celsius, MF Global, LTCM, Peregrine, Washington Mutual,
Penn Square, Worldcom, Digital, etc

Where there was financial mismanagement one usually finds excessive leverage, corruption, all due to human greed, and that finance isn't linear and finance doesn't conform to any physical laws. Some on the list didn't realize that the world around them changed. . . meaning that they relied on the trend is their friend and kept spending farther into deb Everyone also believes that management can control the corporate outcome.

Doesn't matter the corporate status, all human systems are fallible because they are run by humans. Economics doesn't explain greed as that is not a rational actor. . . Behavioral economics does, and this scenario, happens, over and over and over again.

Which is easier? grow a company at 16% a year for 20 years? or go become financially insolvent?

[Caymus]

Any guess as to how much $$$ Brady lost in FTX?

[tophcfa]

Understanding the Bitcoin dynamic requires high-order conceptual thinking ability as well as higher-order finance. All others can do is just watch their television to be told what to think by people who are trying to own them.

Don’t forget to add that the most important Bitcoin dynamic requires a high-order level of faith that there is a greater fool out there willing and able to keep the pyramid from collapsing.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

And there will be a book, from one of the best non fiction financial writers of our times

H'''wood FTX Frenzy as Michael Lewis Reveals He Spent 6 Months with Founder (https://theankler.com/p/hwood-ftx-frenzy-as-michael-lewis)

Will be interested in the details. . .

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Don’t forget to add that the most important Bitcoin dynamic requires a high-order level of faith that there is a greater fool out there willing and able to keep the pyramid from collapsing.

ever since Mt Gox, there has always been a question about the security of ownership of tokens, and the ability to keep them safe from the platform/exchange operator. And the MtGox heist has never been solved many years later. This security issue has always been my issue with the whole crypto currency usage as not a serious investment option.

Mt. Gox - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mt._Gox)

[CoachKandSportsguy]

The cast of characters in the FTX corruption is unbelievable

see the FDIC letter

Who's Dan Friedberg? From Excapsa. You know, the company that made poker software that allowed employees to cheat at poker to make money, and then said people were just butthurt they lost at poker.

There is the letter original link: https://www.fdic.gov/news/press-releases/2022/ftx-harrison-letter.pdf

[Fastskiguy]

The cast of characters in the FTX corruption is unbelievable

see the FDIC letter

Who's Dan Friedberg? From Excapsa. You know, the company that made poker software that allowed employees to cheat at poker to make money, and then said people were just butthurt they lost at poker.

There is the letter original link: https://www.fdic.gov/news/press-releases/2022/ftx-harrison-letter.pdf

Which doesn’t really mean Bitcoin or crypto in general are sketchy. Of course other things make them sketchy depending on how you look at them. But slimy guys in finance? Kinda the norm, right?

Joe

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Which doesn’t really mean Bitcoin or crypto in general are sketchy. Of course other things make them sketchy depending on how you look at them. But slimy guys in finance? Kinda the norm, right?

Joe

“(Why do you rob banks, Willie?) Because that's where the money is.”
― Willie Sutton, Where the Money Was: The Memoirs of a Bank Robber

The probability for slimy higher here than anywhere else, for the Willie Sutton rule.
Which is why after working in the industry, I am skeptical about most all financial sales pitches.

[Fastskiguy]

“(Why do you rob banks, Willie?) Because that's where the money is.”
― Willie Sutton, Where the Money Was: The Memoirs of a Bank Robber

The probability for slimy higher here than anywhere else, for the Willie Sutton rule.
Which is why after working in the industry, I am skeptical about most all financial sales pitches.

Willie is literally saying something as obvious as “the sky is blue” but I could not agree with you more and since you are from the industry it carries much more weight.

Do you own any crypto?

Joe

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Willie is literally saying something as obvious as “the sky is blue” but I could not agree with you more and since you are from the industry it carries much more weight.

Do you own any crypto?

Joe

Ah, never, thieve's currency. read some of my prior recent posts. every since the MtGox debacle, there has never been any guarantee of account segregation at the exchanges such that i could trust guarantee an account. However, since there is no intrinsic value, no reason to even think about it.

finance guy

[Fastskiguy]

Ah, never, thieve's currency. read some of my prior recent posts. every since the MtGox debacle, there has never been any guarantee of account segregation at the exchanges such that i could trust guarantee an account. However, since there is no intrinsic value, no reason to even think about it.

finance guy

That is not what I want to hear!!!!


But I appreciate the comment :)

Joe

[Aces4]

Don’t forget to add that the most important Bitcoin dynamic requires a high-order level of faith that there is a greater fool out there willing and able to keep the pyramid from collapsing.

Reminds one of the stock market…

[CoachKandSportsguy]

That is not what I want to hear!!!!

Joe

Ask Larry, he knows


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BH5-rSxilxo

[tophcfa]

And there will be a book, from one of the best non fiction financial writers of our times

H'''wood FTX Frenzy as Michael Lewis Reveals He Spent 6 Months with Founder (https://theankler.com/p/hwood-ftx-frenzy-as-michael-lewis)

Will be interested in the details. . .

Can’t wait to read the book, Michael Lewis is an awesome writer and has a way of being thoroughly researched and spot on. Two of my favorite books are written by him, Liar’s Poker and The Big Short. I lived within the inner circle of those books stories during my career and he is incredibly accurate in his descriptions of the goings on in the investment world in both books. He was accurate right down to the tendencies, mannerisms, and personalities of many of the main characters in the books, who I had extensive working relationships with, both good and bad.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Can’t wait to read the book, Michael Lewis is an awesome writer and has a way of being thoroughly researched and spot on. Two of my favorite books are written by him, Liar’s Poker and The Big Short. I lived within the inner circle of those books stories during my career and he is incredibly accurate in his descriptions of the goings on in the investment world in both books. He was accurate right down to the tendencies, mannerisms, and personalities of many of the main characters in the books, who I had extensive working relationships with, both good and bad.

You may like this article, which was slightly before my time in the industry, but I remember all the names.

Market Rap - Bernard Madoff, the Mafia, and the Friends of Michael Milken (http://www.marketrap.com/article/view_article/9152/bernard-madoff-the-mafia-and-the-friends-of-michael-milken)

And that's why I don't trust anyone with their sales pitches, you never know who is on the other side and what their edge is. . .

[Normal]

So it’s down to 16,700 today, just because two of its major backers are pulling out doesn’t mean it won’t die a fast and terrible death. Buy at 60,000 sell at 800 bucks, what a deal? FTX filed for bankruptcy this weekend; if gold backed cryptocurrency is floundering, it’s all a wash. The “house of cards” will fall on its lynch pin this week.

[Fastskiguy]

Financial slime balls aside, the promise of crypto is secure, anonymous ways of sending money to anyone anywhere. It cuts the banks out of the equation...which lowers cost. It is decentralized, meaning everyone has a copy of the ledger, not just the insiders at the bank. It has the potential to completely change the financial world. And, with contracts (and other stuff I don't understand), it can go much farther.

But

If I want to hold bitcoin, I need to make damn sure I don't lose my pass phrase. If you lose that you can never recover the bitcoin. If you have somebody else hold your coins...well we all saw how that can go just last week. Finally, if I have my coin and I want to sent it directly to you, I need to be absolutely 100% certain I'm sending it to the right address. If you put in one wrong character it goes to somebody else or is lost in the ether but you can be sure you won't get it back.

So most people kinda need banks. A lot like we have right now.

Having said all of that, I own some bitcoin. Ethereum too. But I'm not exactly betting the farm on it.

Joe

[tvbound]

So it’s down to 16,700 today, just because two of its major backers are pulling out doesn’t mean it won’t die a fast and terrible death. Buy at 60,000 sell at 800 bucks, what a deal? FTX filed for bankruptcy this weekend; if gold backed cryptocurrency is floundering, it’s all a wash. The “house of cards” will fall on its lynch pin this week.

Yes, but, who could have ever predicted that this scheme could/would fail so spectacularly? I mean, besides Buffett... and so many others.

I'm currently looking for someone who handles tulip bulb futures. lol

[Babubhat]

The higher the price the less suckers to dump it on. El Salvador underwater hoping to pump and dump it . So many better forms of gambling. Options, commodities etc

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Financial slime balls aside, the promise of crypto is secure, anonymous ways of sending money to anyone anywhere. It cuts the banks out of the equation...which lowers cost. It is decentralized, meaning everyone has a copy of the ledger, not just the insiders at the bank. It has the potential to completely change the financial world. And, with contracts (and other stuff I don't understand), it can go much farther.

But

If I want to hold bitcoin, I need to make damn sure I don't lose my pass phrase. If you lose that you can never recover the bitcoin. If you have somebody else hold your coins...well we all saw how that can go just last week. Finally, if I have my coin and I want to sent it directly to you, I need to be absolutely 100% certain I'm sending it to the right address. If you put in one wrong character it goes to somebody else or is lost in the ether but you can be sure you won't get it back.

So most people kinda need banks. A lot like we have right now.

Having said all of that, I own some bitcoin. Ethereum too. But I'm not exactly betting the farm on it.

Joe

anonymous but not anonymous, right?
I can do with my bank exactly what crypto can do, transfer to someone else with the address, i know the person and the address, so why is it different than a bank?

so then if I have to sent it to an address which I don't know who it is, like with ransomware, then its really just a thieve's currency, evading the banking regulations, evading prosecution because one wants to do something which isn't legal. . . . such as theft and taxes. . .

so then supporting anti tax movement just says, I want to use the US land and US services, but I don't want to share the burden for it, which makes me a selfish freeloader.

hence, there is no use case for bitcoin other than illegal, selfish, self enrichment activities.

prove me wrong

[MorTech]

Watch and at least try to understand....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RI4xEHI7tGg

Bitcoin is not a Security.

[MorTech]

The big question...Will Sam Bankman-Fried be "Epsteined"?

[Caymus]

SBF released on $250 million bond. Must be nice that his family could cover the fees.

[Fastskiguy]

SBF released on $250 million bond. Must be nice that his family could cover the fees.

Yeah but they probably only needed to cough up $25 mil

^^please read with heavy sarcasm^^

Joe