Gas Tax Holiday

[dewilson58]

Stupid idea.

Band Aid with dirt on the pad.

[Stu from NYC]

Pandering to people dumb enough to think this is a good idea.

Where does the money come from to fix roads and bridges on road if nobody pays the gas tax?

[MrFlorida]

So that's going to amount to, about 18 cents a gallon, big deal.....

[Bay Kid]

Whip cream on s__t. They know not what they do.

[dewilson58]

Its not a supply issue. Have you seen any ‘sorry, no gas’ signs lately? In 2021 the us exported 8.63 millions barrels/day of gasoline

Please EDUCATE yourself................the other 1/2 of your "story" is how many barrels were imported.

:ohdear::ohdear::ohdear:

[jdulej]

Please EDUCATE yourself................the other 1/2 of your "story" is how many barrels were imported.

:ohdear::ohdear::ohdear:
I know. 8.4?ish. Whats your point. You can import and not export. Either way the price will settle at the world price which means you have a lot more oil you paid too much for - not a supply problem. It is a demand problem.

[dewilson58]

I know. 8.4?ish. Whats your point. You can import and not export. Either way the price will settle at the world price which means you have a lot more oil you paid too much for - not a supply problem. It is a demand problem.

December 2021 EY study summary:
Summary
For the oil and gas industry, the next few years will be defined by capital markets’ reluctance to invest, discord among government, and consumer and investor perceptions about the speed with which oil and gas should or can be replaced.

[MartinSE]

I know. 8.4?ish. Whats your point. You can import and not export. Either way the price will settle at the world price which means you have a lot more oil you paid too much for - not a supply problem. It is a demand problem.

BTW: I agree the tax holiday is just politics. We will pay for that loss of road maintenance later. Nothing is free.

Remember the reason the oil companies are making historic profit levels is they are charging what they can without regard to people. They can do this because they buy oil is large volumes to get a guaranteed price. So, as the price of oil goes up, they make more profit by charging more and not paying more.

When their bulk contract runs out, we better hope the price of oils is down, or prices could double over night.

[jdulej]

December 2021 EY study summary:
Summary
For the oil and gas industry, the next few years will be defined by capital markets’ reluctance to invest, discord among government, and consumer and investor perceptions about the speed with which oil and gas should or can be replaced.

Thats likely a smart move. Like it or not using oil for power is going to way of coal. It would be very helpful if people would work together to make a smooth transition - good luck with that
Like coal, oil wont go away. I would guess at a 25% decrease over the next 50 years. But we do not need a bunch of new drilling or infrastructure to cover that

[Ken Nelson]

This is most likely not going to pass the House (Pelosi said she is against it early for the same reasons, it's a bandaid).

[jdulej]

This is most likely not going to pass the House (Pelosi said she is against it early for the same reasons, it's a bandaid).
Good for her. It is a silly idea

[JMintzer]

US Oil production is open.

:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Stu from NYC]

US Oil production is open.

True but the govt should look to help and encourage the producers to expand production asap.

Telling them that we are working to reduce consumption of oil products and want you to go away asap is not going to help reduce prices

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

So that's going to amount to, about 18 cents a gallon, big deal.....

The Florida gas tax holiday comes JUST in time for the election. People will remember the last big thing that they experienced. What better than a big honkin discount on gas on the way to the ballot box!

From the State of Florida official website Governor Ron DeSantis Signs Largest Tax Relief Package in Florida’s History (https://www.flgov.com/2022/05/06/governor-ron-desantis-signs-largest-tax-relief-package-in-floridas-history/)

· A one-month Fuel Tax Holiday from October 1, through October 31, 2022, saving Floridians $200 million by lowering the price of gas by 25.3 cents per gallon.

Funny how most of the people complaining about the 18-cent tax holiday for the fed, aren't complaining about the 25-cent tax holiday for the state. Maybe it's just politics? Nahhhhhhh can't be.



That's what this is about. That is ONLY what this is about.

[Stu from NYC]

The Florida gas tax holiday comes JUST in time for the election. People will remember the last big thing that they experienced. What better than a big honkin discount on gas on the way to the ballot box!

From the State of Florida official website Governor Ron DeSantis Signs Largest Tax Relief Package in Florida’s History (https://www.flgov.com/2022/05/06/governor-ron-desantis-signs-largest-tax-relief-package-in-floridas-history/)



Funny how most of the people complaining about the 18-cent tax holiday for the fed, aren't complaining about the 25-cent tax holiday for the state. Maybe it's just politics? Nahhhhhhh can't be.



That's what this is about. That is ONLY what this is about.

First of all the State of Florida manages its finances much better than Washington does.

In any case gas tax revenue supposed to go to maintaining our roads and wrong for the govt to not collect the money or spend it accordingly.

[golfing eagles]

US Oil production is open.

I concur with the responder who posted : :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

9,000 parcels of federal land is available for oil companies to LEASE, but the government won't issue any PERMITS to actually drill there. That's like telling a landlord that they can build a new apartment building but they are not allowed to rent the apartments. A 3 month hiatus in the 18 cent/gal. federal tax is like putting a band aid on a chain saw wound. The answer is to open the Keystone pipeline, issue permits for drilling, and tell the ________(fill in the blank) that global warming (due to man's activity) is a myth.

[jdulej]

I concur with the responder who posted : :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

9,000 parcels of federal land is available for oil companies to LEASE, but the government won't issue any PERMITS to actually drill there. That's like telling a landlord that they can build a new apartment building but they are not allowed to rent the apartments. A 3 month hiatus in the 18 cent/gal. federal tax is like putting a band aid on a chain saw wound. The answer is to open the Keystone pipeline, issue permits for drilling, and tell the ________(fill in the blank) that global warming (due to man's activity) is a myth.
If the goal is to get the price of gas down, I don't see how sending more dirty Canadian tarsand oil to China will help. US is already a net exporter of gas. Start by blocking that - could do it tomorrow. But, that will do nothing to lower the price of gas, just like more drilling will do nothing. The problem is a demand problem. People want more and don't (yet) care what the price is. Who has not done something they wanted to do, especially after the pandemic, because gas is up? I don't know anyone. Lots of my neighbors are cruising in their RVs out to Colorado or where ever. They grumble, but it does not stop them. Of course the poor, the most powerless, will/are suffering but no one cares about them.
We'll save Global Warming for another day.

[drcar]

I concur with the responder who posted : :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

9,000 parcels of federal land is available for oil companies to LEASE, but the government won't issue any PERMITS to actually drill there. That's like telling a landlord that they can build a new apartment building but they are not allowed to rent the apartments. A 3 month hiatus in the 18 cent/gal. federal tax is like putting a band aid on a chain saw wound. The answer is to open the Keystone pipeline, issue permits for drilling, and tell the ________(fill in the blank) that global warming (due to man's activity) is a myth.

LOL, there is not a lack of oil, the refineries are not running full, heck the oil companies are making record profits, they won't change.

[Tvflguy]

LOL, there is not a lack of oil, the refineries are not running full, heck the oil companies are making record profits, they won't change.

Please provide facts and details on the above.

[Topspinmo]

US Oil production is open.


And they sell it on stock market like every other world producers Now refineries pays price and based on that price sets price for gallon of gas.

[Topspinmo]

LOL, there is not a lack of oil, the refineries are not running full, heck the oil companies
are making record profits, they won't change.

They sell product on stock market, stock market controls prices. Now we can argue over why it goes up fast and comes down slow when price is crud oil drops, but that it.

Crude Oil Prices Today | Brent and WTI Price Charts (https://www.dailyfx.com/crude-oil)

[billethkid]

The proposal is testimony that politicians think their constituents are stupid.

I grant that they are most certainly silent.....but not stupid.

Twenty cents off five dollar gas!!!!!!!:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[wisbad1]

Stupid idea.

Band Aid with dirt on the pad.
Oh boy! Can’t wait to get my gas rebate card too. Wondering if I can get reparations with it.

[Keefelane66]

Gas prices still aren’t high enough people haven’t adjusted their driving habits still clogging up the highways

[Tvflguy]

Personally I love this. That .18 gallon savings will go towards my fund to buy a new electric car. I’ll be just about 107 when that happens. Thanks!

[MartinSE]

Please provide facts and details on the above.

Which part, the oil refineries running at 100%, that Oil companies are making historic profits? They are all in the news.

If they needed more wells, why haven't they drilled ANY of the 1000 permits they already own? Please provide FACTS on that.

[I'm Popeye!]

Pandering to people dumb enough to think this is a good idea.

Where does the money come from to fix roads and bridges on road if nobody pays the gas tax?

Is this the beginning of the "Build Back Better" program? :eek:

[tophcfa]

That will make two new ridiculous Federal holidays.

[JMintzer]

Which part, the oil refineries running at 100%, that Oil companies are making historic profits? They are all in the news.

If they needed more wells, why haven't they drilled ANY of the 1000 permits they already own? Please provide FACTS on that.

And lord knows, "The News" has never lied to us...

[mtdjed]

If the goal is to get the price of gas down, I don't see how sending more dirty Canadian tarsand oil to China will help. US is already a net exporter of gas. Start by blocking that - could do it tomorrow. But, that will do nothing to lower the price of gas, just like more drilling will do nothing. The problem is a demand problem. People want more and don't (yet) care what the price is. Who has not done something they wanted to do, especially after the pandemic, because gas is up? I don't know anyone. Lots of my neighbors are cruising in their RVs out to Colorado or where ever. They grumble, but it does not stop them. Of course the poor, the most powerless, will/are suffering but no one cares about them.
We'll save Global Warming for another day.

Are you talking about oil or gas? That being natural gas vs gasoline. I see where the US exports more Gasoline now than before. If we are exporting more gasolene , that would seem to suggest that the industry comments that we do not have capacity may be exaggerated. Since exports are somewhat controlled by the government, why wouldn't the administration simply not approve the export, thus making more gasoline available in the USA? That would increase the supply side of the equation.

[MartinSE]

A bit more than a tad.

True, just trying to play "nice".

[MartinSE]

Are you talking about oil or gas? That being natural gas vs gasoline. I see where the US exports more Gasoline now than before. If we are exporting more gasolene , that would seem to suggest that the industry comments that we do not have capacity may be exaggerated. Since exports are somewhat controlled by the government, why wouldn't the administration simply not approve the export, thus making more gasoline available in the USA? That would increase the supply side of the equation.

So, you are in favor of government regulating companies? Isn't that socialism?

And if so, why not just put in price controls.

[Stu from NYC]

So, you are in favor of government regulating companies? Isn't that socialism?

And if so, why not just put in price controls.

To a large extent the govt already regulates companies.

Socialism is when the govt actually owns the companies in question.

[Michael G.]

How can I possible add to this post without getting political and getting spanked from the mods?
Then I'll be on a vacation from this forum, so I'm holding back, for now.

[Luggage]

He must be a big shot with a lot of money in the bank. That's another 10 or $20 a month the average Joe can keep in their own wallet to spend on things like food utilities and rent. You seem to forget we are the 1%

[Blackbird45]

There are many factors for the increase in gas prices. One is the realization of these companies that there are alternative fuels on the horizon. So, you can understand why they’re interest in drilling has dropped, investing in something with diminishing returns is not a wise move. What this has created is a self-feeding problem. Less drilling, less product in the market, less product high prices for that product.

This problem is evolutionary, while we go through this transition oil price will climb. But when more of the public switch to EVs or some type of alternative fuel the prices will drop. Supply and demand.

The three-month tax holiday is a nice gesture, but it’s going to take longer than 3 months to switch from oil to alternative fuel vehicles. People have to realize this issue is not confined to the U.S. There are charts on the internet showing that prices have increased almost everywhere, this is a global issue.

[donassaid]

Symbolism over substance because he thinks the American people are stupid enough to cause them to change their vote in November. Average person will save less than $3,00 per fill up. Big Whoop.

[barvic]

Agree 100%! Your comment awhile back re; ambassadors are now "sand providers" was the best!!

[MDLNB]

Gas prices still aren’t high enough people haven’t adjusted their driving habits still clogging up the highways


Yes, it is a shame that folks have to use the highways to go to work, and trucks need to supply our stores with products by using the highways. Maybe they should adjust their driving habits? Kind of like getting rid of guns will stop violence.

[golfing eagles]

He must be a big shot with a lot of money in the bank. That's another 10 or $20 a month the average Joe can keep in their own wallet to spend on things like food utilities and rent. You seem to forget we are the 1%

Let's look at that a little closer:

1) not concerned over saving $10-20/ MONTH makes one a "big shot with a lot of money in the bank" Hmmm.....yes, 5 years of saving $10/mo. would deplete the "big shot's" savings of a whopping $600

2) To save $20/mo., at 18 cents/gallon = 111.1 gallons/month or $556 at $5/gallon and implies driving 2,999 miles/MONTH---a bit more than average, which according to Car and Driver magazine is 13,500/year So the savings for an average driver is closer to $7/month.

3) But the proposal is only to repeal that tax for 3 months, so total savings is $21---yep, that would put someone in the "1%":1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[golfing eagles]

There are many factors for the increase in gas prices. One is the realization of these companies that there are alternative fuels on the horizon. So, you can understand why they’re interest in drilling has dropped, investing in something with diminishing returns is not a wise move. What this has created is a self-feeding problem. Less drilling, less product in the market, less product high prices for that product.

This problem is evolutionary, while we go through this transition oil price will climb. But when more of the public switch to EVs or some type of alternative fuel the prices will drop. Supply and demand.

The three-month tax holiday is a nice gesture, but it’s going to take longer than 3 months to switch from oil to alternative fuel vehicles. People have to realize this issue is not confined to the U.S. There are charts on the internet showing that prices have increased almost everywhere, this is a global issue.

Let's examine those concepts a bit further:

First of all, does anyone think it is likely that big oil would sacrifice profits today for fear of declining profit in the distant future????? I doubt it.

Second---EVs. Where do people think the electricity comes from???? Latest data for our sources of electricity:

Coal---------------33.2%
Natural gas----32.7%
Nuclear----------19.5%
Hydro---------------6.1%
Wind----------------4.7%
Solar----------------0.6%

This does not include heating and cooling homes from fossil fuels and industrial applications, so you could replace every internal combustion engine with EV and not make a dent in the carbon footprint, not that it matters since global warming is a myth anyway.

Third------"alternative fuel vehicle"---which, besides EV which is powered as listed above, is just what??? I haven't seen a nuclear reactor on a car since the Delorean in "back to the future". 40,000 pound windmill on top of a 3,000 pound car? Mobile waterfall????? 500 sq. ft. of solar panels on a mini cooper???

Fourth, to respond to some other posts, my understanding is that there are 2 parts to drilling on federal land---first, permission to lease the land and second a permit to actually drill on it. The government is more than happy to collect the rent for leasing the land, but this administration has issue exactly ZERO permits to actually drill on it. Must be Putin's fault. Also, there has not been a new refinery built in the US since 1974. Who thinks that is due to "greedy oil companies" and who thinks that is due to ridiculously overburdening environmental regulations? Hint: oil companies sell refined products.

[Stu from NYC]

Let's examine those concepts a bit further:

First of all, does anyone think it is likely that big oil would sacrifice profits today for fear of declining profit in the distant future????? I doubt it.

Second---EVs. Where do people think the electricity comes from???? Latest data for our sources of electricity:

Coal---------------33.2%
Natural gas----32.7%
Nuclear----------19.5%
Hydro---------------6.1%
Wind----------------4.7%
Solar----------------0.6%

This does not include heating and cooling homes from fossil fuels and industrial applications, so you could replace every internal combustion engine with EV and not make a dent in the carbon footprint, not that it matters since global warming is a myth anyway.

Third------"alternative fuel vehicle"---which, besides EV which is powered as listed above, is just what??? I haven't seen a nuclear reactor on a car since the Delorean in "back to the future". 40,000 pound windmill on top of a 3,000 pound car? Mobile waterfall????? 500 sq. ft. of solar panels on a mini cooper???

Fourth, to respond to some other posts, my understanding is that there are 2 parts to drilling on federal land---first, permission to lease the land and second a permit to actually drill on it. The government is more than happy to collect the rent for leasing the land, but this administration has issue exactly ZERO permits to actually drill on it. Must be Putin's fault. Also, there has not been a new refinery built in the US since 1974. Who thinks that is due to "greedy oil companies" and who thinks that is due to ridiculously overburdening environmental regulations? Hint: oil companies sell refined products.

Now you have done it, confused people with facts that they do not want to hear.

[Marine1974]

The United States was a total petroleum net exporter in 2020 and 2021
In 2021, the United States exported about 8.63 million barrels per day (b/d) and imported about 8.47 million b/d of petroleum,1 making the United States an annual total petroleum net exporter for the second year in a row since at least 1949. Total petroleum net exports were about 0.16 million b/d in 2021, and total petroleum net exports in 2020 were 0.63 million b/d. Also in 2021, the United States produced2 about 18.66 million b/d of petroleum and consumed3 about 19.78 million b/d. Even though U.S. annual total petroleum exports were greater than total petroleum imports in 2020 and 2021, the United States still imported some crude oil and petroleum products from other countries to help to supply domestic demand for petroleum and to supply international markets.

[Stu from NYC]

Symbolism over substance because he thinks the American people are stupid enough to cause them to change their vote in November. Average person will save less than $3,00 per fill up. Big Whoop.

And than they will say we need more for the build back better program as we have depleted the funds for rebuilding highways.

[golfing eagles]

Now you have done it, confused people with facts that they do not want to hear.

Yep, don't we just hate that :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Of course, all those who have bought into the "greedy oil companies" story line for 50 years and those "woke" enough to actually believe that global warming is due to man will not want to EVER be swayed by the facts.

[dewilson58]

The United States was a total petroleum net exporter in 2020 and 2021.

Old News

This US turned into a Net Importer in 2022.

[jbrown132]

Stupid idea.

Band Aid with dirt on the pad.
Right up there with taking oil out of our strategic reserves. Dumb, dumb, dumb!!!!

[golfing eagles]

Old News

This US turned into a Net Importer in 2022.

Thank you.
Now, anyone care to guess which factors made us a net exporter and which ones have quickly turned us into a net importer??????

[dewilson58]

Thank you.
Now, anyone care to guess which policies made us a net exporter and which ones have quickly turned us into a net importer??????

CAREFUL

I've got two border (the border, that could be a third) line threads trying to survive the political deletion.

:eclipsee_gold_cup:

[dewilson58]

Right up there with taking oil out of our strategic reserves. Dumb, dumb, dumb!!!!

Waiting for the plan to convert our military to electric.

:oops:

[golfing eagles]

CAREFUL

I've got two border (the border, that could be a third) line threads trying to survive the political deletion.

:eclipsee_gold_cup:

good point---I edited it to change "policies" to "factors"

[Bill14564]

Old News

This US turned into a Net Importer in 2022.

But did the US companies decrease production or did the US consumers increase consumption?

[dewilson58]

But did the US companies decrease production or did the US consumers increase consumption?

Yes

[golfing eagles]

But did the US companies decrease production or did the US consumers increase consumption?

Both, for reasons already stated. But realize, we are essentially a petroleum based economy---if consumption does not increase we are either stagnant or in a recession.

[dewilson58]

But realize, we are essentially a petroleum based economy---

Yes, golf balls use petroleum.

[Tvflguy]

Yes, golf balls use petroleum.

Most people would be shocked to know items that are dependent on petroleum. Tough to replace petroleum with sun and wind.

[golfing eagles]

Yes, golf balls use petroleum.

OMG!!! Drill baby, drill!!!!

Better start hoarding now! Let's deflect---start the rumor that toilet paper is made out of petroleum :1rotfl: :1rotfl: :1rotfl:

[Bill14564]

Both, for reasons already stated. But realize, we are essentially a petroleum based economy---if consumption does not increase we are either stagnant or in a recession.

I've seen arguments why production has not increased but I've seen nothing that indicates production has decreased in the last six months.

This page (https://www.bts.gov/content/overview-us-petroleum-production-imports-exports-and-consumption-million-barrels-day) has a nice set of data showing that a production increase in 2019 followed by a consumption decrease in 2020/2021 led to the "net exporter" condition. I haven't found the numbers for 2022 yet to see what they show (and they would be incomplete at this point anyway).

The US was a net exporter due to a sharp decrease in consumption in 2020 that was likely due to Covid. Not unexpectedly, production decreased in 2020 driven either by lower consumption or by Covid shutdowns in the production lines. But still, 2020 production remained close to the 2019 high and increased slightly in 2021. This level of production also supported a continued increase in exports through 2021.

I would like to find the 2022 numbers that supports the assertion that the US is now a net importer. It wouldn't surprise me too much if the recovering economy has led to an increase in consumption back to 2019 levels when we were a net importer.

There are likely several factors that are stifling increased production. But I would have doubts about a decrease in production without numbers to back it up.

[jammaiora]

Stupid idea.

Band Aid with dirt on the pad.
"Stupid Idea" with no supporting reasons for why you think it is stupid. Therefore, STUPID comment! I "LOVED" the bandaid analogy, very "original".

[golfing eagles]

......
In case you haven't figured it out you do not put oil in your car you put gasoline in your car. ...........

If you don't put oil in your car, your engine will seize :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Vermilion Villager]

If you don't put oil in your car, your engine will seize :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

I had one of those cars once "fill it with oil and check the gasoline":loco:

[Stu from NYC]

I had one of those cars once "fill it with oil and check the gasoline":loco:

Hope my wife remembers where the oil goes.

[billethkid]

Is the USA still exporting gasoline/oil/diesel?
Yes!!!!
Has the USA maximized it's capability to basic oil production?
No!!!
Are the needs of Americans the top priority?
No!
Are we the people doing anything about it?
No!
Hence the green agenda continues.......regardless the cost!

[Haggar]

True but the govt should look to help and encourage the producers to expand production asap.

Telling them that we are working to reduce consumption of oil products and want you to go away asap is not going to help reduce prices

It's economics. Oil companies have the capacity to produce more oil without opening up any NEW fields that people are claiming the government should release.

With the trend towards clean energy and the lowered demand for oil in the future the oil companies do not want to spend money today to open up their existing fields (including more expensive shale fields) because in the long term when demand is less they will not be needed.

They could produce more oil from existing fields they own if they thought it would be profitable in the long run. Right now they would rather return their profits to the stockholders.

And to the poster who said they should open up the Keystone pipeline - the Keystone pipeline is open. It's the extension of the Keystone XL pipeline which is being blocked. The Keystone XL will bring tar sands oil from Canada (unusable for gasoline in the US) to Gulf ports FOR EXPORT. I'm missing something - how will that help us in the US?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

And lord knows, "The News" has never lied to us...

You could just go ahead and check the actual oil company reports and press releases. They're not run by the news. They just give the information TO the press, who reports what they're told.

If you did that, you'd see that -
(drumroll)
the news reported correctly. Oil companies HAVE reported their biggest profits ever. And oil companies ARE responsible for the increase in price. And oil companies DO have control over how much/little they charge for the oil. And there are no oil shortages, and oil is being distributed just fine throughout our country.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Yes, it is a shame that folks have to use the highways to go to work, and trucks need to supply our stores with products by using the highways. Maybe they should adjust their driving habits? Kind of like getting rid of guns will stop violence.

Good analogy.

People need to stop relying on gasoline for all their transportation - just like people need to stop using guns to shoot people.

I like that analogy.

[Captainpd]

The $.18 per gallon times 8.8 million gallons daily is $880000000, 880 billion a day in lost revenue while saving the average driver less than $10. Gas was $1.89 and is now +$5.00. Gas is up +$3.00 and the Government thinks $10 a month is going to help.

[haysus7]

Capitalism

[golfing eagles]

The $.18 per gallon times 8.8 million gallons daily is $880000000, 880 billion a day in lost revenue while saving the average driver less than $10. Gas was $1.89 and is now +$5.00. Gas is up +$3.00 and the Government thinks $10 a month is going to help.

common core math??????

Using the numbers posted without checking them, 8.8 million gallons/day x 18 cents = $1,584,000/day. Even if "/day" was a typo for "/year", it's still only 578.16 million /year. Too bad, since it were truly 880 billion/day, that tax alone would pay off our 30 trillion national debt in 34 days.

[Jacob85]

I tell you what all of you I will take your savings then as I assume none of you want the extra money. If there was no offer of help everyone would be saying why don’t they do something? Most people probably don’t even know the reasons why this is happening!

[Bill14564]

The $.18 per gallon times 8.8 million gallons daily is $880000000, 880 billion a day in lost revenue while saving the average driver less than $10. Gas was $1.89 and is now +$5.00. Gas is up +$3.00 and the Government thinks $10 a month is going to help.

Bad math, bad info.

About 369 million gallons per day (https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=23&t=10) (8.8 milling barrels). At $.18/gallon that would be $66.4M per day or about $6B over the proposed 90 day period. (Diesel is taxed more than gasoline so the lost revenue will be somewhat higher)

[golfing eagles]

I tell you what all of you I will take your savings then as I assume none of you want the extra money. If there was no offer of help everyone would be saying why don’t they do something? Most people probably don’t even know the reasons why this is happening!

No problem---I use about 20 gallons/month, so where do I send my windfall savings of $3.60??????? You could probably buy half a latte at Starbucks or 6 chicken McNuggets----not quite enough to feed a family of 4. Nothing like a 3 month reprieve of 3.6% on a product whose price has tripled in the last 2 years

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Second---EVs. Where do people think the electricity comes from???? Latest data for our sources of electricity:

Coal---------------33.2%
Natural gas----32.7%
Nuclear----------19.5%
Hydro---------------6.1%
Wind----------------4.7%
Solar----------------0.6%

This does not include heating and cooling homes from fossil fuels and industrial applications, so you could replace every internal combustion engine with EV and not make a dent in the carbon footprint, not that it matters since global warming is a myth anyway.

Third------"alternative fuel vehicle"---which, besides EV which is powered as listed above, is just what???

I guess you don't remember back in the days of diesel fuel, when we learned that corn oil and other vegetable oil could be used in diesel engines. The technology wasn't good enough for a full replacement, but that's how the idea of adding ethanol to our gas started. And now, most gasoline is cut with ethanol. That can be improved.

Meanwhile - everyone who says this is a petroleum-based economy and country is right. It is. There's no way we're going to give up on plastics, it just isn't going to happen. But there are ways to REDUCE petroleum consumption.

Also, I don't know where you got your chart, but it's incorrect. Probably outdated.

Natural gas is the #1 source for electricity in the USA, at 38%. Coal is second at 22%. Nuclear is at 19% and all the renewable energies, combined, fill out the remaining 21%. Petroleum makes up .5% (half a percent) of electricity sources.

There's no reason why we can't reduce our reliance on fossil fuels, and increase our production of renewables and "alternative" sources. Even our garbage man is already doing that, by converting trash to energy (Waste Management). Heck even GOLF is pro-active in this; the Phoenix Open, sponsored by Waste Management, runs a zero-waste tournament where ALL trash is converted to energy.

It might have started out as a gimmick - a good public relations scheme. But it's an idea with merit.

[golfing eagles]

Bad math, bad info.

About 369 million gallons per day (https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=23&t=10) (8.8 milling barrels). At $.18/gallon that would be $66.4M per day or about $6B over the proposed 90 day period. (Diesel is taxed more than gasoline so the lost revenue will be somewhat higher)

Concur. I did state "without checking the numbers", but when the math was that horrendous, I should have checked his facts as well. :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[tophcfa]

Most people probably don’t even know the reasons why this is happening!

Could one of the reasons be all the climate activists flying around in their private jets?

[golfing eagles]

I guess you don't remember back in the days of diesel fuel, when we learned that corn oil and other vegetable oil could be used in diesel engines. The technology wasn't good enough for a full replacement, but that's how the idea of adding ethanol to our gas started. And now, most gasoline is cut with ethanol. That can be improved.

Meanwhile - everyone who says this is a petroleum-based economy and country is right. It is. There's no way we're going to give up on plastics, it just isn't going to happen. But there are ways to REDUCE petroleum consumption.

Also, I don't know where you got your chart, but it's incorrect. Probably outdated.

Natural gas is the #1 source for electricity in the USA, at 38%. Coal is second at 22%. Nuclear is at 19% and all the renewable energies, combined, fill out the remaining 21%. Petroleum makes up .5% (half a percent) of electricity sources.

There's no reason why we can't reduce our reliance on fossil fuels, and increase our production of renewables and "alternative" sources. Even our garbage man is already doing that, by converting trash to energy (Waste Management). Heck even GOLF is pro-active in this; the Phoenix Open, sponsored by Waste Management, runs a zero-waste tournament where ALL trash is converted to energy.

It might have started out as a gimmick - a good public relations scheme. But it's an idea with merit.

Yes, that chart was bit old----from 2015.

But the bottom line remains---once we "reduce fossil fuels", what have we accomplished??? Absolutely nothing except to those that have bought into the myth/scam of "global warming" hook, line and sinker. Now, if someone were to make the argument that our air would be cleaner if we didn't burn hydrocarbons, I would agree. But global warming????--total farce.

[billethkid]

For those proposing alternatives to using gasoline;
What are the alternatives that are readily available for mass consumption?

How about a plan with the objective to be accomplished?

Most elected officials are incapable of planning! And planning does not provide the instant gratification required for special interest groups.

:icon_bored:

[OhioBuckeye]

I agree it’s only for a week & then it goes back to the price it was or higher to make up for the bandaid fix. You’re right just a temporary fix!

[JMintzer]

You could just go ahead and check the actual oil company reports and press releases. They're not run by the news. They just give the information TO the press, who reports what they're told.

If you did that, you'd see that -
(drumroll)
the news reported correctly. Oil companies HAVE reported their biggest profits ever. And oil companies ARE responsible for the increase in price. And oil companies DO have control over how much/little they charge for the oil. And there are no oil shortages, and oil is being distributed just fine throughout our country.

Oil companies are making the same profit per gallon as they always haver.

When you compare 2021, when they were LOSING money to today, when the economy has reopened, of course there will be a large surge in profits...

[DAVES]

Stupid idea.

Band Aid with dirt on the pad.

Government is sort of interesting. They must do something, even if doing nothing is the right thing to do.

Oil if we read it is an interesting MESS. A world market? Just as we do, companies buy from the cheapest source. I am retired. I drive far less than I used to. Food is up roughly 30%, CPI is up roughly 9% and in the stock market roughly 14% has simply vanished.

[Blackbird45]

Let's examine those concepts a bit further:

First of all, does anyone think it is likely that big oil would sacrifice profits today for fear of declining profit in the distant future????? I doubt it.

Second---EVs. Where do people think the electricity comes from???? Latest data for our sources of electricity:

Coal---------------33.2%
Natural gas----32.7%
Nuclear----------19.5%
Hydro---------------6.1%
Wind----------------4.7%
Solar----------------0.6%

This does not include heating and cooling homes from fossil fuels and industrial applications, so you could replace every internal combustion engine with EV and not make a dent in the carbon footprint, not that it matters since global warming is a myth anyway.

Third------"alternative fuel vehicle"---which, besides EV which is powered as listed above, is just what??? I haven't seen a nuclear reactor on a car since the Delorean in "back to the future". 40,000 pound windmill on top of a 3,000 pound car? Mobile waterfall????? 500 sq. ft. of solar panels on a mini cooper???

Fourth, to respond to some other posts, my understanding is that there are 2 parts to drilling on federal land---first, permission to lease the land and second a permit to actually drill on it. The government is more than happy to collect the rent for leasing the land, but this administration has issue exactly ZERO permits to actually drill on it. Must be Putin's fault. Also, there has not been a new refinery built in the US since 1974. Who thinks that is due to "greedy oil companies" and who thinks that is due to ridiculously overburdening environmental regulations? Hint: oil companies sell refined products.

You do know they're working on hydrogen cars.
EVs will take over but not because the global warming, but because it eventually will be more convenient and most likely less expensive.
The oil companies can see the handwriting on the wall.
There will still be a market for their product, but they are going to take a hit.

[DAVES]

Oil companies are making the same profit per gallon as they always haver.

When you compare 2021, when they were LOSING money to today, when the economy has reopened, of course there will be a large surge in profits...

Our current concept by too many. The evil oil companies. Oil companies are corporations. Shares in the company, stocks, are traded on an opened market.
I am an evil stock holder. They produce a nice dividend that I use to pay MY bills.
The stocks have actually fallen from their peak. We all have a choice of buying the stock, RISKING YOUR SAVINGS, as well as when to or not to do it.

[golfing eagles]

You do know they're working on hydrogen cars.
EVs will take over but not because the global warming, but because it eventually will be more convenient and most likely less expensive.
The oil companies can see the handwriting on the wall.
There will still be a market for their product, but they are going to take a hit.

No argument---it is self evident. Once cars are all EV or hydrogen, gasoline will be virtually non-existent. But when will that be? American business is notoriously short-sighted, looking 2-3 years ahead while competitors like China and Japan look 20 years ahead. For that reason I just don't believe that oil companies are reducing production and foregoing profits NOW in anticipation of an uncertain future in which their product MIGHT be vastly reduced. Of course, this is highly speculative. Right now, despite the rise in price, fossil fuels are still the cheapest form of energy. EV's of any quality tend to be quite expensive, and hydrogen is a great idea that is many years away if ever. Personally, I'd be a bit leery of parking the Hindenburg in my garage.

[Keefelane66]

$.18 for many of us isn’t much but for a minimum wage worker it my help them out many don’t buy the most efficient transportation vehicles but many will say that’s their problem.

[Stu from NYC]

No argument---it is self evident. Once cars are all EV or hydrogen, gasoline will be virtually non-existent. But when will that be? American business is notoriously short-sighted, looking 2-3 years ahead while competitors like China and Japan look 20 years ahead. For that reason I just don't believe that oil companies are reducing production and foregoing profits NOW in anticipation of an uncertain future in which their product MIGHT be vastly reduced. Of course, this is highly speculative. Right now, despite the rise in price, fossil fuels are still the cheapest form of energy. EV's of any quality tend to be quite expensive, and hydrogen is a great idea that is many years away if ever. Personally, I'd be a bit leery of parking the Hindenburg in my garage.


Wow you must have one heck of a big garage than.

[Blackbird45]

No argument---it is self evident. Once cars are all EV or hydrogen, gasoline will be virtually non-existent. But when will that be? American business is notoriously short-sighted, looking 2-3 years ahead while competitors like China and Japan look 20 years ahead. For that reason I just don't believe that oil companies are reducing production and foregoing profits NOW in anticipation of an uncertain future in which their product MIGHT be vastly reduced. Of course, this is highly speculative. Right now, despite the rise in price, fossil fuels are still the cheapest form of energy. EV's of any quality tend to be quite expensive, and hydrogen is a great idea that is many years away if ever. Personally, I'd be a bit leery of parking the Hindenburg in my garage.

What will dictate the speed of EVs taken over is the demand. Right now you have people paying a high price for an EV and are willing to wait months for delivery.
Even though there are still issues with distance and charging times.
Car companies and battery manufactures see this and will do whatever they can to solves these problems as quickly as they can. You also have the states investing in charging stations and people realizing they may never have to visit another gas station. This is eventually going to affect the oil companies bottom line. I don't think the oil companies are evil, they're doing what is in the best financial interest of their company and their stockholders.

[Stu from NYC]

What will dictate the speed of EVs taken over is the demand. Right now you have people paying a high price for an EV and are willing to wait months for delivery.
Even though there are still issues with distance and charging times.
Car companies and battery manufactures see this and will do whatever they can to solves these problems as quickly as they can. You also have the states investing in charging stations and people realizing they may never have to visit another gas station. This is eventually going to affect the oil companies bottom line. I don't think the oil companies are evil, they're doing what is in the best financial interest of their company and their stockholders.

Very well said

[golfing eagles]

What will dictate the speed of EVs taken over is the demand. Right now you have people paying a high price for an EV and are willing to wait months for delivery.
Even though there are still issues with distance and charging times.
Car companies and battery manufactures see this and will do whatever they can to solves these problems as quickly as they can. You also have the states investing in charging stations and people realizing they may never have to visit another gas station. This is eventually going to affect the oil companies bottom line. I don't think the oil companies are evil, they're doing what is in the best financial interest of their company and their stockholders.

Alright, but just WHO is buying and waiting for EVs? Certainly not the masses. Just a guess, but I would bet Californians and other bicoastal elites lead the pack along with young woke people with good jobs.

Also, a visit to the gas station-----3 minutes. A visit to the charging station----how many hours?????

Of course, all that will change in the future as costs come down, ranges go up, and battery life improves.

[bogmonster]

Why has nobody mentioned the obvious? The day before the federal tax holiday hits, the gas stations will raise their prices a magical 10-15 cents.

[defrey12]

What will dictate the speed of EVs taken over is the demand. Right now you have people paying a high price for an EV and are willing to wait months for delivery.
Even though there are still issues with distance and charging times.
Car companies and battery manufactures see this and will do whatever they can to solves these problems as quickly as they can. You also have the states investing in charging stations and people realizing they may never have to visit another gas station. This is eventually going to affect the oil companies bottom line. I don't think the oil companies are evil, they're doing what is in the best financial interest of their company and their stockholders.

Noticed your comment “distance & changing times”…not the issue, and EVs will undoubtedly be MUCH more inconvenient—2hr charge time to go another 200 miles. That’s a great idea for long trip vs a 10 minute fill time and 400 miles for ⛽️. The real issue is the fact that the power companies MUST STILL BURN SOME SORT OF FOSSIL FUEL to make electricity! Unless you’re in the west where hydro-electric rules. But those states still have to purchase more from coal burners (yes, they had to switch back from natural gas due to Washington’s interference) to meet their demand. Bottom line: There’s a worse carbon footprint for building and powering electric cars than sticking with what we know, and making it better. Oh! And don’t even get me started on what to do with the batteries once they wear out, which they will. Are we going to shoot them into space? THEY ARE CONSIDERED TOXIC WASTE by the EPA so they’re not going in land-fills. And what about the strip mining for lithium (required for those batteries) in South America and other places throughout the world? Go ahead…look it up. You could put many small American towns in those craters. But those things seems to matter not to “the enlightened”…EVs alone are NOT the cure. They have a place—inner city commuting—but outside of that application, they just are not practical and convenient—values close to the American heart. Just a lot political posturing and back room deals.

[Topspinmo]

Why has nobody mentioned the obvious? The day before the federal tax holiday hits, the gas stations will raise their prices a magical 10-15 cents.

Why? it don’t affect there profit.:)

[defrey12]

What stroke was that? What spigot was turned off?

Uhhh, in case you missed it…one of Joe’s first official acts was to kill the pipeline via Executive Order. Around 4000-5000 people lost their jobs that day, too…but that’s ok. If he hadn’t done that, we would not be stuck begging for and buying hi-priced Saudi oil and we’d have instead given our business to our neighbors to the north…for about half the cost! And we would be SELLING our surplus to Europe instead of them having to go to other guys. Got it?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Yes, that chart was bit old----from 2015.

But the bottom line remains---once we "reduce fossil fuels", what have we accomplished??? Absolutely nothing except to those that have bought into the myth/scam of "global warming" hook, line and sinker. Now, if someone were to make the argument that our air would be cleaner if we didn't burn hydrocarbons, I would agree. But global warming????--total farce.

This topic is about the price of gas, not about climate change.

The price of gas is reduced when there's less of a demand/reliance on it. The oil companies charge more, because they CAN. Because so far, no one has said "nope - we'll just not use gas as much anymore, but thanks for playing."

When we increase renewables and alternatives to petroleum, we decrease the demand for petroleum. And the price of petroleum will go down. That's just basic economics.

[Topspinmo]

Noticed your comment “distance & changing times”…not the issue, and EVs will undoubtedly be MUCH more inconvenient—2hr charge time to go another 200 miles. That’s a great idea for long trip vs a 10 minute fill time and 400 miles for ⛽️. The real issue is the fact that the power companies MUST STILL BURN SOME SORT OF FOSSIL FUEL to make electricity! Unless you’re in the west where hydro-electric rules. But those states still have to purchase more from coal burners (yes, they had to switch back from natural gas due to Washington’s interference) to meet their demand. Bottom line: There’s a worse carbon footprint for building and powering electric cars than sticking with what we know, and making it better. Oh! And don’t even get me started on what to do with the batteries once they wear out, which they will. Are we going to shoot them into space? THEY ARE CONSIDERED TOXIC WASTE by the EPA so they’re not going in land-fills. And what about the strip mining for lithium (required for those batteries) in South America and other places throughout the world? Go ahead…look it up. You could put many small American towns in those craters. But those things seems to matter not to “the enlightened”…EVs alone are NOT the cure. They have a place—inner city commuting—but outside of that application, they just are not practical and convenient—values close to the American heart. Just a lot political posturing and back room deals.

Water in southwest drying up, too many lawns and golf courses in desert, not to mention overpopulated. They had to create new intake on Hoover dam to supply Las Vegas, cause the one the built way back when sticking out of water by several feet. Even Denver trying to steal water from plat river form Nebraska water rights. If the had any brains in southwest desert They would outlaw grass lawns and plush golf courses.

[Moderator]

The next political comment closes the thread. Moderation has become weary.

[Topspinmo]

This topic is about the price of gas, not about climate change.

The price of gas is reduced when there's less of a demand/reliance on it. The oil companies charge more, because they CAN. Because so far, no one has said "nope - we'll just not use gas as much anymore, but thanks for playing."

When we increase renewables and alternatives to petroleum, we decrease the demand for petroleum. And the price of petroleum will go down. That's just basic economics.

Yes, TOTV monitor, o wait not you’re job.

So, how do you think renewables are produced? Fossil fuels.

[Bill14564]

Uhhh, in case you missed it…one of Joe’s first official acts was to kill the pipeline via Executive Order. Around 4000-5000 people lost their jobs that day, too…but that’s ok. If he hadn’t done that, we would not be stuck begging for and buying hi-priced Saudi oil and we’d have instead given our business to our neighbors to the north…for about half the cost! And we would be SELLING our surplus to Europe instead of them having to go to other guys. Got it?

The Keystone XL, is that the spigot he turned off? That wasn't a spigot at all.

You note that 4000-5000 people lost their jobs that day. Were those refinery workers processing the oil from that pipeline? Were they truckers transporting the fuel products that came out of the refinery? No.

The people who lost their jobs that day were the construction workers who would have been building the pipeline. No spigot was shut off; there was no spigot to shut off.

The Keystone XL pipeline expansion would have transported tar sands oil to refineries in the gulf. The output of those refineries would then be sported overseas, not a drop of fuel would be sent to US pumps.

Again, no spigot was shut off; there was no spigot to shut off. Got it?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Alright, but just WHO is buying and waiting for EVs? Certainly not the masses. Just a guess, but I would bet Californians and other bicoastal elites lead the pack along with young woke people with good jobs.

Also, a visit to the gas station-----3 minutes. A visit to the charging station----how many hours?????

Of course, all that will change in the future as costs come down, ranges go up, and battery life improves.

I see a future that includes gasoline use in cars.
But it ALSO includes MORE EVs and hydrogen-powered cars. Possibly even with solar panels on the roof to power the internal stuff like the radio, lights, cabin electrical system - maybe even the heater.

In fact I see a future with lots of hybrids, that utilize both electricity and gasoline.

I also see families having an EV for local needs, and a gas-powered vehicle - or perhaps more efficient rental company vehicles - for long distance driving.

No need to worry about where you'll charge your EV, if you only drive 10-15 miles away from home everywhere and can recharge when you get home.

I see a future where every town has at least one public charging station, so folks who DO prefer to have exclusively EV in town, can venture to the next town for a day trip, without worrying about running out of juice.

And yes I absolutely see the need for gas-powered cars. Long distance travel is important, especially for truckers. There's absolutely positively no way we'll be eliminating gas-powered vehicles. It just can't happen, unless we get rid of the trucking industry entirely. But we can rely LESS on gas, and MORE on EV and alternate fuels. Remember that big push for STEM education? Yeah - that means more engineers to study more efficient engine options that don't require gasoline. Maybe they'll be able to make an efficient, low-pollution diesel engine that uses the discarded used vegetable oil from fast-food joints. It's not a pipe dream - we've already figured out how to use the fresh stuff. It's just not very good for the environment. Yet.

[billethkid]

This topic is about the price of gas, not about climate change.

The price of gas is reduced when there's less of a demand/reliance on it. The oil companies charge more, because they CAN. Because so far, no one has said "nope - we'll just not use gas as much anymore, but thanks for playing."

When we increase renewables and alternatives to petroleum, we decrease the demand for petroleum. And the price of petroleum will go down. That's just basic economics.

Pretty obvious. However, currently just words.

Why cut off the current petroleum based products BEFORE the renewals and alternatives are available?

How can the public be encouraged to change when the "green" ways are not available in adequate supply.....and cost?

Just basics of supply and demand!!!!

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Pretty obvious. However, currently just words.

Why cut off the current petroleum based products BEFORE the renewals and alternatives are available?

How can the public be encouraged to change when the "green" ways are not available in adequate supply.....and cost?

Just basics of supply and demand!!!!

As long as the oil companies have control over the conversation, there will be resistance to even trying. "Why bother trying if oil will just win anyway" is a defeatist attitude. There are already alternatives to SOME petroleum products, and SOME gasoline-powered vehicles.

Popularity of them is increasing. You can think locally on this, without even looking at the national picture. More electric golf carts. More re-usable grocery bags. More people choosing refillable household products rather than single-use ones. More water filters, fewer disposable water bottles.

All of these things are alternatives that *reduce* rather than replace petroleum consumption. And it's already happening right here in the Villages. We could set the standard. Or we can say "nah...we don't care" and pretend we're not already shifting our attitude so younger generations don't bother even trying to follow the example.

I don't have kids or grandkids. I have no horse in that race. Your mileage may vary. Ironic quip intended.

[rogerrice60]

Couple years ago we produced so much oil the spot price went to $0.
Trump filled our Strategic Oil Reserves at a very low price...

[Tvflguy]

I rcvd an infraction for what I believe was a very mild comment. Mod considered it political. I’m quite new here and very confused how they may pick and choose what is and not.

Trying to tread lightly here. Are they biased or selective. I kinda feel violated. I look thru this thread, and think “Why me”?!!

[rogerrice60]

I concur with the responder who posted : :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

9,000 parcels of federal land is available for oil companies to LEASE, but the government won't issue any PERMITS to actually drill there. That's like telling a landlord that they can build a new apartment building but they are not allowed to rent the apartments. A 3 month hiatus in the 18 cent/gal. federal tax is like putting a band aid on a chain saw wound. The answer is to open the Keystone pipeline, issue permits for drilling, and tell the ________(fill in the blank) that global warming (due to man's activity) is a myth.


Excellent & Accurate Commentary

[Stu from NYC]

Excellent & Accurate Commentary

Drill baby drill is the answer to high gas costs

[bogmonster]

No, it’s when people are conditioned to pay $6 a gallon, they will still pay it. The stations will just pocket the free money.

[JMintzer]

This topic is about the price of gas, not about climate change.

The price of gas is reduced when there's less of a demand/reliance on it. The oil companies charge more, because they CAN. Because so far, no one has said "nope - we'll just not use gas as much anymore, but thanks for playing."

When we increase renewables and alternatives to petroleum, we decrease the demand for petroleum. And the price of petroleum will go down. That's just basic economics.

So, inflation hasn't affected the oil companies and they're only raising prices because they want to?

[Stu from NYC]

So, inflation hasn't affected the oil companies and they're only raising prices because they want to?

Economics should be a required class in all schools

[JMintzer]

The Keystone XL, is that the spigot he turned off? That wasn't a spigot at all.

You note that 4000-5000 people lost their jobs that day. Were those refinery workers processing the oil from that pipeline? Were they truckers transporting the fuel products that came out of the refinery? No.

The people who lost their jobs that day were the construction workers who would have been building the pipeline. No spigot was shut off; there was no spigot to shut off.

The Keystone XL pipeline expansion would have transported tar sands oil to refineries in the gulf. The output of those refineries would then be sported overseas, not a drop of fuel would be sent to US pumps.

Again, no spigot was shut off; there was no spigot to shut off. Got it?

Off shore and Alaska leases were cancelled...

Leases and permits to drill on Federal land have not been approved...

[JMintzer]

Water in southwest drying up, too many lawns and golf courses in desert, not to mention overpopulated. They had to create new intake on Hoover dam to supply Las Vegas, cause the one the built way back when sticking out of water by several feet. Even Denver trying to steal water from plat river form Nebraska water rights. If the had any brains in southwest desert They would outlaw grass lawns and plush golf courses.

The golf courses out there use reclaimed and recycled water...

[JMintzer]

As long as the oil companies have control over the conversation, there will be resistance to even trying. "Why bother trying if oil will just win anyway" is a defeatist attitude. There are already alternatives to SOME petroleum products, and SOME gasoline-powered vehicles.

Popularity of them is increasing. You can think locally on this, without even looking at the national picture. More electric golf carts. More re-usable grocery bags. More people choosing refillable household products rather than single-use ones. More water filters, fewer disposable water bottles.

All of these things are alternatives that *reduce* rather than replace petroleum consumption. And it's already happening right here in the Villages. We could set the standard. Or we can say "nah...we don't care" and pretend we're not already shifting our attitude so younger generations don't bother even trying to follow the example.

I don't have kids or grandkids. I have no horse in that race. Your mileage may vary. Ironic quip intended.

You don't think the oil companies are thinking "long term" and investing in alternative fuels?

They are in the "Energy Business"...

All types of "energy"...

[JMintzer]

I rcvd an infraction for what I believe was a very mild comment. Mod considered it political. I’m quite new here and very confused how they may pick and choose what is and not.

Trying to tread lightly here. Are they biased or selective. I kinda feel violated. I look thru this thread, and think “Why me”?!!

Join the club...

[JMintzer]

Economics should be a required class in all schools

Please explain your response to my comment...

[Stu from NYC]

The golf courses out there use reclaimed and recycled water...

The problem is the land and its resources out there is not able to support the number of people living there.

[tophcfa]

Screw the gas tax holiday, we need a golf tax holiday : )

[Stu from NYC]

Please explain your response to my comment...

People do not understand how businesses run.

[Bill14564]

Off shore and Alaska leases were cancelled...

Leases and permits to drill on Federal land have not been approved...

Still, no spigots were shut off. Potential future production was prevented, and that likely had an effect on price, but there was no spigot shut off that could immediately be turned back on.

[Lindsyburnsy]

Every little bit helps, but why only 40% of that tax relief going to the avg citizen?

[TrapX]

Still, no spigots were shut off. Potential future production was prevented, and that likely had an effect on price, but there was no spigot shut off that could immediately be turned back on.

Not correct. Fracking leases were cancelled in Jan 2021. New leases were blocked. That immediately reduced the supply of natural gas. Those sites were scuttled, and cannot simply be "turned back on" without a lot of work and investment. Since the previous investment in those sites was trashed, and threats to further restrict fracking leases were made, the energy companies would not invest in that area again.

So with less natural gas, oil was needed to fill the previous demand. But oil drilling leases were also not renewed. New leases were blocked. Same story as fracking - less production.

Now the US is no longer a net exporter of oil and gas. We need to buy it on the global market. That means any one of many countries can raise prices and the US pays it. No choice there.

Russia raises prices for energy and the world has to pay it. That's how the current administration's energy policy has given Russia and the Arabs control over part of our economy.

[Bill14564]

Not correct. Fracking leases were cancelled in Jan 2021. New leases were blocked. That immediately reduced the supply of natural gas. Those sites were scuttled, and cannot simply be "turned back on" without a lot of work and investment. Since the previous investment in those sites was trashed, and threats to further restrict fracking leases were made, the energy companies would not invest in that area again.

So with less natural gas, oil was needed to fill the previous demand. But oil drilling leases were also not renewed. New leases were blocked. Same story as fracking - less production.

Now the US is no longer a net exporter of oil and gas. We need to buy it on the global market. That means any one of many countries can raise prices and the US pays it. No choice there.

Russia raises prices for energy and the world has to pay it. That's how the current administration's energy policy has given Russia and the Arabs control over part of our economy.

"New leases were blocked" means new "spigots" were not turned on. The supply of natural gas was not reduced, it simply was not increased. (Yes, also not replaced when existing sources dried up).

Note that the US was a net exporter in 2021. If the "spigot" was shut off in January then it would have had immediate effect on production yet 2021 production was greater than 2020.

Look, I have no argument with the idea that petroleum sources have not expanded at the rate they had in the past. My argument is with the idea that current production was immediately diminished in January 2021. The current situation is not a result of decreased US production. The current situation is a result of a continuing increase in demand and, to a far greater extent, the threat of a decrease in the world supply, largely due to Russia.

Again, I have not seen any 2022 numbers for US production but the 2021 numbers showed an increase, not a decline.

[golfing eagles]

"New leases were blocked" means new "spigots" were not turned on. The supply of natural gas was not reduced, it simply was not increased. (Yes, also not replaced when existing sources dried up).

Note that the US was a net exporter in 2021. If the "spigot" was shut off in January then it would have had immediate effect on production yet 2021 production was greater than 2020.

Look, I have no argument with the idea that petroleum sources have not expanded at the rate they had in the past. My argument is with the idea that current production was immediately diminished in January 2021. The current situation is not a result of decreased US production. The current situation is a result of a continuing increase in demand and, to a far greater extent, the threat of a decrease in the world supply, largely due to Russia.

Again, I have not seen any 2022 numbers for US production but the 2021 numbers showed an increase, not a decline.

Question: If someone shuts down the Keystone extension and new drilling permits on January 22, 2021 did anyone except the catastrophic damage would be evident on January 23? If not, the 2021 argument is moot

[Bill14564]

Question: If someone shuts down the Keystone extension and new drilling permits on January 22, 2021 did anyone except the catastrophic damage would be evident on January 23? If not, the 2021 argument is moot

Are you proposing that someone should have predicted the reaction in the stock market? Is the country now supposed to be run in a way that minimizes the often irrational behavior of the market? It seems like you are proposing a "tail wagging the dog" form of governance.

The 2021 argument is a supply and demand argument. The supply has not decreased but has actually increased. The demand has increased more. These are real, hard facts.

The January 23 argument asks for speculation against potential speculation. Yes, the markets are going to react but in the absence of anything else the supply and demand numbers will prevail. But we didn't have the absence of anything else, we had the war in Ukraine. Now, the markets are reacting to the war in Ukraine and the markets are reacting to the way the markets are reacting. Unfortunately, since the markets set the price of oil and gas, that is causing problems.

And with that, I am out of my comfort zone. Time to sit back and watch those with more background make logical, non-political arguments.

[golfing eagles]

Are you proposing that someone should have predicted the reaction in the stock market? Is the country now supposed to be run in a way that minimizes the often irrational behavior of the market? It seems like you are proposing a "tail wagging the dog" form of governance.

The 2021 argument is a supply and demand argument. The supply has not decreased but has actually increased. The demand has increased more. These are real, hard facts.

The January 23 argument asks for speculation against potential speculation. Yes, the markets are going to react but in the absence of anything else the supply and demand numbers will prevail. But we didn't have the absence of anything else, we had the war in Ukraine. Now, the markets are reacting to the war in Ukraine and the markets are reacting to the way the markets are reacting. Unfortunately, since the markets set the price of oil and gas, that is causing problems.

And with that, I am out of my comfort zone. Time to sit back and watch those with more background make logical, non-political arguments.

Interesting, but nowhere did I mention the stock market at all. My point is that when you cut supply------yes CUT SUPPLY, eventually, NOT the next day, and demand increases, the price will go up. PERIOD. Futures contracts for commodities go out both short term and long term. The handwriting on the wall is obvious to all but the truly brainwashed, domestic supply will go down as demand increases, so prices will rise. Economics 101. Unfortunately, some of the decision makers are either among the brainwashed or the brain dead.

[Bill14564]

Interesting, but nowhere did I mention the stock market at all. My point is that when you cut supply------yes CUT SUPPLY, eventually, NOT the next day, and demand increases, the price will go up. PERIOD. Futures contracts for commodities go out both short term and long term. The handwriting on the wall is obvious to all but the truly brainwashed, domestic supply will go down as demand increases, so prices will rise. Economics 101. Unfortunately, some of the decision makers are either among the brainwashed or the brain dead.

Apparently, I made an incorrect assumption. For clarity, what were you referring to when you wrote, "did anyone except the catastrophic damage would be evident on January 23?" If not the market reaction then what exactly was the catastrophic damage that was evident on January 23?

[golfing eagles]

Apparently, I made an incorrect assumption. For clarity, what were you referring to when you wrote, "did anyone except the catastrophic damage would be evident on January 23?" If not the market reaction then what exactly was the catastrophic damage that was evident on January 23?

The "catastrophic damage" (hyperbole, I admit), referred to future oil prices, future inflation and further dependence on foreign oil. The stock market does what it does, sometimes independent of current economic reality. Sorry I wasn't clear

[MartinSE]

From what I have read, the Keystone pipeline extension had managed to complete 90 miles out of a total of 1200 miles in over a year. Most estimates, considering legal issues, funding, etc, feel the pipeline extension would have been completed in 3 years - if everything went right.

So, around 2024 we could see some oil flowing through the extension.

Then there is the little matter of the oil coming from their tar pits was to be refined in the US and mostly shipped overseas.

Sounds like a lot of Tucker is being spread here.

I won't provide links, since that seems to insult people here.

[Stu from NYC]

Interesting, but nowhere did I mention the stock market at all. My point is that when you cut supply------yes CUT SUPPLY, eventually, NOT the next day, and demand increases, the price will go up. PERIOD. Futures contracts for commodities go out both short term and long term. The handwriting on the wall is obvious to all but the truly brainwashed, domestic supply will go down as demand increases, so prices will rise. Economics 101. Unfortunately, some of the decision makers are either among the brainwashed or the brain dead.

Or getting paid to help the oil industry raise the price

[golfing eagles]

Or getting paid to help the oil industry raise the price

explanation????

[Calisport]

I'm waiting for the $90.00 discount on electric cars also

[Moderator]

Thread closed. Refer to post 95.