Independent Fire District Cost Impact Information

[Goldwingnut]

This is a very long post on a very complex and important subject. I've taken the time to write it to help everyone understand the Independent Fire District issue.

There is a lot of concern about the upcoming vote on creating an Independent Fire District (IFD) formation vote that is coming up. There is also a lot of speculation and misinformation being spread by some who are trying to pass themselves off as “knowledgeable” or even as “experts”, some of these people are running for the various County Commissioner seats. At The Villages Republican Club meeting on Thursday, I heard some of these individuals speak and, in my opinion, attempt to spread fear and discontent about this as a way to sway voters on the issue and to vote for them. While I am not omnipotent in my knowledge of the topic, recent service as a District Supervisor on the CDD10 board and on PWAC as well as my current service as County Commissioner has had me deeply engaged in the issue.

What follows is an explanation of the issue and how it will impact residents in The Villages as well as outside The Villages in Sumter County. My knowledge about The Villages undertakings on the IFD is up to date as of my leaving office on June 10th when I assumed the position of County Commissioner, for the most up to date information, you should contact Mr. Kenny Blocker, the District Manager.

Concerning the IFD, there are several variables here and I'll try to explain them. Please keep in mind what I will explain is the "ideal" and “theoretical” situation and the numbers involved can and will most likely change so the net impact to any individual property owner or taxpayer is still unknown at this time.

First, we must look at the fire department structure in Sumter County, there are two, the Sumter County Fire & EMS department (SCFD) and The Villages Public Safety department (VPSD). Both are funded from the county general fund budget; the proposed budget is about $19.3M for Sumter County and $17.9M for VPSD for the 2023 fiscal year. About $37.2M in total, this is second only to the $42.4M proposed budget for the Sumter County Sheriff's Office budget.

Funding this is two principal sources 1) the $124 annual fire Municipal Service Benefit Unit (MSBU) for fires services on the property tax bill for each developed property in the county and 2) the county general fund funds the balance of the costs. There are currently 73 funding sources to the general fund and there may be some addition contributions from some of these other sources but for the sake of discussion since these would be minor sources, we’ll focus on these two primary funding sources. The MSBU projected contribution for next year (FY23) is about $9.1M, this leaves about $28.1M coming from the General Fund.

What happens next is the most important part of the process and was approved by the BOCC on Tuesday July 12th. We will have an independent company review and analyze the costs associated with the county fire department and transport services (ambulance) in the current budget and projected for the upcoming year. They will make a recommendation on the path forward for funding of the county fire department. The anticipated action is:
a) The current revenues and expenses for fire service for both fire departments will be removed from the FY24 budget. (Based on FY23 budget numbers this would be $19.3M + $17.9M in cost and $9.1M in revenue). This will result in a decrease of the ad valorem tax millage rate; these numbers are shown at the bottom of this posting.
b) The IFD and Sumter County will set a MSBU (separate, so they may be different for each) would be based on the actual number of properties serviced by each fire department and applied to their FY24 budgets. The Sumter County MSBU will be based on the outcome of the study approved by the BOCC and the IFD as determined by their needs and board’s direction.
c) Some of the remaining costs for the County Fire Department would then be assessed as a Municipal Service Taxing Unit (MSTU) on the properties service by the SCFD and not those serviced by the VSPD. The MSTU would be an ad valorem tax on the property. This will replace the ad valorem tax rate reduction for SCFD serviced residents.
d) The balance of the costs should be recovered in Transport Fees – the fees charged for transport by the county ambulance services that were approved last year. These costs and revenues still need to be calculated.

I'm no longer engaged with the VPSD and District office for The Villages since becoming a member of the BOCC but will share with you what I know of the anticipated plan for the VPSD funding. Please follow up with the District staff and Mr. Kenny Blocker (District Manager) for the most up to date details on this.
a) A board of supervisors for the Independent Fire District will be appointed by the Governor, presumably these will be residents within the IFD.
b) The IFD will determine its funding requirements and operating budget.
c) The IFD board will establish their own MSBU to support their funding – this is the fixed dollar amount per parcel.
d) The board will set their own MSTU (or equivalent) to cover the majority of the operating cost – this is the value-based ad valorem tax millage rate that could be as high as 2 millage points ($2 per $1000 assessed value).
e) The Villages residents also contribute $4.08 each month from each Amenity Fee paid to supplement the VPSD budget, about $3.5M as best I can recall from the budget workshops earlier this year. This helps fund the extra services such as smoke alarm battery change out and AED programs.
f) Like the SCFD, VPSD will also be collecting Transport Fees for the ambulance services they provide, these revenues will also be applied to the operating budget to offset costs.

Again, for the most accurate information please contact Mr. Kenny Blocker, The Villages District Manager.

For both fire departments there may be internal and external revenue sources that may offset some of the operating cost in addition to what I’ve described above. These will be up to their governing boards to pursue.

The vote on the general election ballot on November 8th is only about establishing the IFD and not about the ambulance services. The ambulance service issue was resolved last year and is moving forward in both fire districts. This is the result of residents of The Villages and County Residents requirements for better, more effective, and more responsive emergency transport services. The BOCC listened and reacted accordingly. This higher level of service will come with a price that reflects additional staffing and equipment costs. In the ideal world, these will be cost neutral and self-funding from the transport fees collected.

There may also be some startup costs for both fire departments associated with establishing an IFD that would have to be absorbed in their initial budgets.

In the end you should see on your county tax bill:
a) A lower ad valorem property tax
b) An MSBU – possibly different for each fire district
c) An MSTU – dependent on your fire districts budget requirements and any other offsetting revenue sources.

This method that is in motion that I have described removes the cost of fire protection and transport service from the general property tax bill and collects it from the separate MSBU and MSTU fees. It prevents residents in or outside The Villages from being double taxed for the fire services.

In the ideal world there would be a net zero change in your property tax bill, but there are other factors that come into play such as the costs and revenues from the in-house ambulance services that were approved last year, as well as many other things.

Again, please understand that what I've described is the ideal situation and there are many variables that will impact this and there are a lot of numbers to be crunched to determine the exact impacts and cost. Also, please reach out to Mr. Blocker for more details on the VPSD funding side.

One of the drums that have been being banged by these fear mongering “experts” is that the actual numbers for the cost impact won’t be known until June 30th 2023. While upsetting to some, this is not an attempt from either Sumter County or VPSD to hide anything, it is simply because these numbers are still being and will continue to be calculated. A little forethought should put this issue into perspective:
a) On the county side the ad valorem millage rate adjustment can’t be calculated until the exact number of properties and their values are determined in each fire district is known, this is a huge task that the Property Appraiser must do each fiscal year.
b) Both fire departments have to determine their operating costs under the new configurations, this is still in transition.
c) Transport costs and recovery rates that impact the budgets can’t be accurately determined until they are operational and have some operating history.
d) Current economic conditions (inflation) are very unpredictable, the closer to the go-live point that budgets are determined the more accurate they will be.

All of these things being considered we can do some rough calculations on some of the impact of the proposed changes. I’ll use the proposed FY23 budget numbers to get an approximation of some of the items.
To determine the ad valorem tax millage rate change we need to know two things, 1) the value of the fire service costs to be removed and 2) the value of 1 millage point.

How much will be removed from the general fund budget, I’ve discussed this already discussed this – about $37.2M less the amount collected by the current MSBU of $124/property/year $9.1M or about $28.1M. (unrounded is $28,188,777)

How much is a millage point worth? In the proposed FY23 budget the millage rate of 5.5936 will yield $95,037,767 in ad valorem taxes or about $16,990,447.48 per millage point.

With these numbers the ad valorem tax millage rate anticipated change would be:

$28,188,777/$16,990,447.48 or 1.6591 points or about a 29.7% decrease in the ad valorem tax rate for the county general fund budget.

The current MSBU of $124/yr will also be removed from the county tax bill.

This ad valorem tax decrease and MSBU removal will be replaced by a new tax, an MSTU, and a new MSBU for each fire district on the county tax bill. How much these new taxes are still being determined. If I had to guess, on The Villages side the rates may be comparable between old and new, on the county side it is much more difficult to determine so I won’t speculate at this time.

Again, these numbers are very rough and have a great many other factors that will be considered that will affect them. These are also based on FY23 values and not the more accurate yet to be determined FY24 numbers. Overall, this should give you some ideas of what things are looking like.

Neither the Sumter County BOCC or The Villages District Staff are trying to hide any information or misrepresent anything to anyone, it is simply a very complex and lengthy process both are going through in preparation for a possible approval vote to the referendum in November. Information has been and will continue to be made available as it becomes available.

Finally, once again I say, for the most up to date information on The Villages side of the issue please contact Mr. Kenny Blocker, and on the Sumter County side we won’t have accurate answers until sometime in the first half of 2023 when the study is completed.

I know this explanation is lengthy and detailed, it is a complex issue and process. I hope this explanation has helped you understand where things are going with funding of the fire departments in Sumter County.

One last thought, this may be a difficult decision for some, the only advice I can give on this issue is when to determine if it is worthwhile. The only time you will truly be able to answer what the value of all this is when those big red trucks roll up to your home as the smoke is coming out the windows and all your possessions or the life of someone you love is at risk and these brave men and women step in to do their jobs, or as you let the hand of your most cherished one go as they are loaded into the ambulance on the way to the hospital. It is only at these moments that you will ever know that on November 8th, if you made the right decision.

[Bill14564]

Thank you.

[Kenswing]

It’s nice having at least one public official that is proactive in communicating the issues that affect us all.
Thanks,Don

[ditka41]

Thank you sincerely for this information. It will be interesting to see how many comments are posted complaining about perceived impacts without reading your intelligent comments at least a few times. We appreciate your efforts, knowledge and experience in helping us move forward in services.

[Babubhat]

Thank you for the summary. I am concerned when unknown amounts are involved. Pessimistic this will not result in substantial increases. They should present costs now or delay it.

[Altavia]

Thanks for the background and explainations.

This is more than just the money. Having a neighbor recently die of a heart attack waiting over 20 min for ambulance illustrates the need for improvement of our services..

[Stu from NYC]

Thank you for the summary. I am concerned when unknown amounts are involved. Pessimistic this will not result in substantial increases. They should present costs now or delay it.

When seconds count cost become secondary

[Babubhat]

When seconds count cost become secondary

Speculative at best. Yes money matters. Right now it’s a Pandora’s box. Increases may be large. I fear another unaccountable commission.

[kansasr]

One of the difficulties has been getting a map of what the new district will actually look like (if you read the enabling legislation, your eyes will cross!). I received the attached from the district gov office last week and it's the best I've seen so far.
94469

[Bill14564]

One of the difficulties has been getting a map of what the new district will actually look like (if you read the enabling legislation, your eyes will cross!). I received the attached from the district gov office last week and it's the best I've seen so far.
94469

So the new independent district would cover the Sumter County portion of the Villages? That sounds like what we've been told from the start.

[Bill14564]

Speculative at best. Yes money matters. Right now it’s a Pandora’s box. Increases may be large. I fear another unaccountable commission.

Based on the information provided, what leads you to believe the increases may be large and that there would be another unaccountable commission? (by the way, what unaccountable commission(s?) do we currently have?)

[Babubhat]

In my opinion it’s a black hole without concrete numbers. A lobster pot, easy to get into hard to get out of. That Sumter tax increase went over well. Don’t need another surprise

Many villages already have an Defibrillator program.

[Goldwingnut]

So the new independent district would cover the Sumter County portion of the Villages? That sounds like what we've been told from the start.

Correct, crossing county lines to create an IFD would be incredibly complex, there will be agreements in place between the IFD, Lake County, and Marion County for mutual service. From the public's stand point, there should be little change from what we have now.

[Goldwingnut]

In my opinion it’s a black hole without concrete numbers. A lobster pot, easy to get into hard to get out of. That Sumter tax increase went over well. Don’t need another surprise

Many villages already have an Defibrillator program.

So the answer is simple for you, vote no on November 8th.

[Bogie Shooter]

In my opinion it’s a black hole without concrete numbers. A lobster pot, easy to get into hard to get out of. That Sumter tax increase went over well. Don’t need another surprise

Many villages already have an Defibrillator program.

What about those that don’t have defibrillator?
I agree, you may sleep better if you vote no……………..

[Worldseries27]

Sounds like
read
my
lips

[MandoMan]

May I point out an error in your epigram from Thomas Paine’s “Common Sense”?

You quote it as “Society is produced by our wants, and government by wickedness; the former promotes our happiness positively by uniting our affections, the latter negatively by restraining our voices.”

The correct word is VICES, not VOICES. The role of government is keeping us from exercising our bad habits, not taping our mouths shut.

[Annie66]

Let's presume for a moment that voters reject the IFD in November. What happens then? I've not seen discussion on this issue.

[Luggage]

Well done, may I add, you should compare fire cost services in lake county next door as well per Capita. Currently per residence it's $201 and villagers pay 124

[Luggage]

Further, who will run these depts, are new positions being considered.
( High salaries ? )

[Veracity]

Thank you, Commissioner Wiley, for posting this important information. I also agree with you about these fear mongering “experts” who are now Sumter County commissioner candidates, especially the one who sat on the ambulance-transport committee that (by his own admission) was a total disaster.

[jrref]

Thanks Don! Keep up the good work!

[JSR22]

Further, who will run these depts, are new positions being considered.
( High salaries ? )

You don't live here. Why do you care?

[Dilligas]

Thank you Don for the facts and not opinions of the facts. You have always laid things out for us to understand and decide.

[mikreb]

Thanks Don. An in-depth explanation of the PWAC split would be appreciated as well.

[Romad]

1. The cost will be established by unelected people, not necessarily from TV.
2. The actual cost per homeowner won’t be known until June 2023.
3. The assessment will be based on actual home values instead of assessed value. Who determines them?

While Mr. Wiley’s response is long, he failed to address why so many were concerned about the cost last Thursday. If he was there, why didn’t he speak up?

If you thought the 25% tax increase over the roads was bad, you haven’t seen anything yet.

I think more of us would be interested in the cost for one fire department in Sumter county instead of two.

[Bill14564]

1. The cost will be established by unelected people, not necessarily from TV.
2. The actual cost per homeowner won’t be known until June 2023.
3. The assessment will be based on actual home values instead of assessed value. Who determines them?

While Mr. Wiley’s response is long, he failed to address why so many were concerned about the cost last Thursday. If he was there, why didn’t he speak up?

If you thought the 25% tax increase over the roads was bad, you haven’t seen anything yet.

I think more of us would be interested in the cost for one fire department in Sumter county instead of two.

Who is "us" and what does that have to do with the funding of the IFD?

- Most of "us" in the Villages have expressed time and again our desire to have a VPSD separate from the Sumter County Fire Department (SCFD).

- The discussion of funding has nothing to do with a separate fire department. The VPSD exists today and it will exist after the election. If the IFD is approved then the VPSD would have its own funding source and would be further removed from decisions of the Sumter County Commissioners. But even without the IFD, the VPSD will exist separate from SCFD.

Using Mr. Wiley's information along with the information that has been provided by the VPSD, I would expect to see my taxes increase by at most 0.1 mils or less than 2%. Yes, the actual numbers will not be known until July/August 2023 when the budgets are put together and things may change by then. We have to decide whether we trust the numbers the VPSD and Mr. Wiley have provided. I know I do.

[Sunflower33]

Thanks Don great explanation

[Bogie Shooter]

Further, who will run these depts, are new positions being considered.
( High salaries ? )

You don't live here. Why do you care?

Seems like a reasonable question…….we are waiting.

[Travelhunter123]

Who is "us" and what does that have to do with the funding of the IFD?

- Most of "us" in the Villages have expressed time and again our desire to have a VPSD separate from the Sumter County Fire Department (SCFD).

- The discussion of funding has nothing to do with a separate fire department. The VPSD exists today and it will exist after the election. If the IFD is approved then the VPSD would have its own funding source and would be further removed from decisions of the Sumter County Commissioners. But even without the IFD, the VPSD will exist separate from SCFD.

Using Mr. Wiley's information along with the information that has been provided by the VPSD, I would expect to see my taxes increase by at most 0.1 mils or less than 2%. Yes, the actual numbers will not be known until July/August 2023 when the budgets are put together and things may change by then. We have to decide whether we trust the numbers the VPSD and Mr. Wiley have provided. I know I do.

I agree completely with the concept and improved response time.
The controversy’s seem to be the complexity and lack of firm budgets and estimates .
We are being asked to take a “leap of faith” and trust the impact is approximately cost neutral.
It would be easier to decide if the proponents provided a firm not to exceed budget of + or - X percent

[Kgcetm]

What about those that don’t have defibrillator?
I agree, you may sleep better if you vote no……………..

Several neighborhoods collected funds from residents and installed their own defibrillators. Many residents elected to contribute, some didn't. Still, we've had defibrillators for a couple of years and have trained individuals living throughout the neighborhood.

Paying your own way is a great way to go.

[cathy34787]

Thank you Don!

[HeyGeorge]

Thank you, Don, for a comprehensive explanation of the financial impact of an IFD on the taxpayer.

Disabled Veterans receive a discount on their Ad Valorem taxes, but not on other assessments. So, if my analysis of your post is correct, a new IFD will be an increase in taxes on disabled Vets.

I hope I am wrong.

[Moderator]

This thread is about the funding of the fire departments. If you want to discuss the hospital there’s already a thread for that. Posts have been removed.

Moderator

[mark100]

Don,
Thank you for your appraisal of this sensitive subject matter. You thought process is clear on the issue. I worked on a Fire Consolidation of seven fire departments in the North Shore of Milwaukee. It was tried 3 times and failed. The forth time was a charm.

As with any major undertaking, the final figures on what it will cost is always a consideration that is different to each resident. The more information one is provided with helps with the final decision. On November 8th, The Sumter County residents of The Villages will be asked to vote.

No, the answer is not easy however the long term effects on coverage, response time, transparency, control and style of Fire Department each resident wants is tied to the vote. Continue to gather information and vote wisely.

[Goldwingnut]

May I point out an error in your epigram from Thomas Paine’s “Common Sense”?

You quote it as “Society is produced by our wants, and government by wickedness; the former promotes our happiness positively by uniting our affections, the latter negatively by restraining our voices.”

The correct word is VICES, not VOICES. The role of government is keeping us from exercising our bad habits, not taping our mouths shut.

Good catch! I never noticed the typo, thank you for bringing it to my attention. It does make a huge difference.

[Goldwingnut]

Let's presume for a moment that voters reject the IFD in November. What happens then? I've not seen discussion on this issue.

Then things continue as they are now and there is no change in the FD structures. Sumter County will continue to have the ultimate control over the majority of the VPSD budget. Both FDs will continue to move forward with providing the ambulance services to their respective customers.

[Goldwingnut]

Further, who will run these depts, are new positions being considered.
( High salaries ? )

For SCFD no changes in the department structures are planned that I am aware of beyond bringing on extra EMS staff to staff the county run ambulances. For VPSD, direct the question to Kenny Blocker, District Manager.

[Goldwingnut]

Well done, may I add, you should compare fire cost services in lake county next door as well per Capita. Currently per residence it's $201 and villagers pay 124

As I stated in the original post, the $124 MSBU only covers about $9.5M of the nearly $40M of the combined fire department budgets, the rest comes from the General Fund. I haven't Looked into Lake County's budget (busy enough with Sumter) but would assume it is a similar case. Just comparing the $201 to the $124 is NOT an accurate comparison of the actual costs of running the fire departments.

[Goldwingnut]

Thanks Don. An in-depth explanation of the PWAC split would be appreciated as well.

Perhaps after the August primary election when I have a little more time on my hands. Remind me then and I'll be happy to go over it in detail.

[twoplanekid]

copied from the District website

"Each parcel will be charged $124. The additional needed funding will be generated with $0.75 per $1000 of relative improvement value in (market or ‘just’ value minus land value) in a second tier. In addition to the ‘Simplified Funding’, The Villages Independent Fire Control and Rescue District will have the legal ability to generate funding via millage which is an ad-valorem assessment, meaning that it is based on the taxable value of your home. This is capped at one (1) mill which is equivalent to $1 for every $1,000 of the assessable value of residential and commercial properties. This would mean the Board could levy 0 mills or any millage in between to a maximum of 1 mill. Under the purview of the District, these revenue methods will provide enhanced transparency in identifying exactly how much you are paying to fund the services received.

So, will I be paying more?

The following chart provides sample comparisons of the potential maximum levy for fire and EMS services that would be provided by the District of actual properties within the proposed District boundaries (does not include amenity fee). As you can see, the annual increase varies based on the relative improvement value.


Current Process Proposed Process Annual Difference
Patio Villa $171.70 $299.50 $127.80
Patio Villa $196.52 $329.50 $132.98
Courtyard Villa $261.56 $450.45 $188.89
Courtyard Villa $156.58 $313.11 $156.53
Designer $244.16 $432.99 $188.83
Designer $338.19 $628.39 $290.20
Premier $640.16 $1,183.44 $543.28
Premier $721.42 $1,437.29 $715.87
Ranch $240.85 $404.86 $164.01
Ranch $257.61 $432.62 $175.01

Publix Plaza – Colony Blvd $11,664.35 $23,878.01 $12,213.66
Freedom Pointe $16,844.26 $31,173.67 $14,329.41
Brownwood Lofts $19,404.87 $34,780.16 $15,375.29
What will I be getting with the annual increase?

The Villages Public Safety Department heard from the thousands of residents that they wanted better services and response times than they were receiving from the current transport and service provider. This budget was created to include the revenues and expenditures to provide those comprehensive services, consistent to the higher level of services that residents of The Villages expect in all areas of their lifestyle. Most notably, the increased expenses account for the assumption of ambulance and transport services, as well as funding to support future fire stations, apparatus and personnel to maintain a constant state of readiness in this ever-growing community.

If I am no longer paying taxes to Sumter County for fire service, will my Sumter County taxes be reduced?

Only the Sumter County Board of County Commissioners can respond as to their plan for taxing in Sumter County. We urge you to contact them with your questions or concerns by attending a meeting or visiting their website at Sumter County, FL - Official Website | Official Website (https://www.sumtercountyfl.gov/). "

Again, this information is currently on the Village Community Development Districts (http://www.Districtgov.org)

[Goldwingnut]

1. The cost will be established by unelected people, not necessarily from TV.
2. The actual cost per homeowner won’t be known until June 2023.
3. The assessment will be based on actual home values instead of assessed value. Who determines them?

While Mr. Wiley’s response is long, he failed to address why so many were concerned about the cost last Thursday. If he was there, why didn’t he speak up?

If you thought the 25% tax increase over the roads was bad, you haven’t seen anything yet.

I think more of us would be interested in the cost for one fire department in Sumter county instead of two.

1. The costs are determined by the accounting and budget departments of Sumter County and the district office. These are not elected individuals but paid professionals on the staff of both, who have been doing this for years for every budget. IF your comment about "not necessarily from TV" is referring to the elected officials that will make up the IFD board, you are mistaken, the governor will appoint the initial board (through the appointment process in place by the state), these board members will have to meet all the eligibility requirements as they would to run for the office including where they live, just as I had to to be considered for appointment as County Commissioner in District 5.

2. Correct, those numbers will take some time to determine, district staff is working on the VPSD IFD costs but can't determine the final millage rate until June 30, 2023 when property value determinations are completed and certified by the County Property Appraiser. The reduction in the ad valorum millage rate on your tax bill will not be determined until then for the same reason and because the SCFD operating costs have to be determined. A lot of the SCFD costs have to be calculated because many costs are not necessarily determined by department but as a part of the overall county budget, things like vehicle servicing, IT support, and staff support costs. Also not known is the actual number of homes that will be taxed next year, more are added every day.

3. The values are determined by the Sumter County Property Appraiser, Mr. Joey Hooten (and staff), who is an elected official of Sumter County.

The cost of combining both fire departments into one would be significant, but not so much in dollars but in service. All residents would receive the same services and as such many of the additional services provided by VPSD would have to be eliminated, or if added to SCFD services all residents of Sumter County would feel the increased cost. Also, these two fire departments have significantly different operating models VPSD is geared for an older urban community and SCFD is more responsive to a younger more rural population.

Yes, I was there, I was in the audience the same as all the rest. That was the time for the District 2 and 4 candidates to speak, it was not an open forum.

[Bill14564]

copied from the District website

...

So, will I be paying more?

The following chart provides sample comparisons of the potential maximum levy for fire and EMS services that would be provided by the District of actual properties within the proposed District boundaries (does not include amenity fee). As you can see, the annual increase varies based on the relative improvement value.

...

Again, this information is currently on the Village Community Development Districts (http://www.Districtgov.org)

The table is based on 0.71 mils of current property tax allocated to fire and EMS service. Commissioner Wiley sets this number closer to 1.66 mils. If Commissioner Wiley's numbers come to pass then the increase under the independent district will be much less than shown in the table.

[Weiserj]

I’m glad that our 2 fire departments will also provide timely transport service vs the previous 3rd party company. This should prove to save lives❤️

[crash]

Well done, may I add, you should compare fire cost services in lake county next door as well per Capita. Currently per residence it's $201 and villagers pay 124

The Villages would pay $124 plus $.75 per thousand. This is where the proposed 9.1% county tax cut comes from because they won’t have to pay it.

[milling73]

This thread makes for fascinating, and very complicated reading: of explanations, estimated and ‘in a perfect world’ cost / tax variables that blur the actual outcome.
As a home owner it is the reality of the bottom line dollar amount on the tax bill due that is simple, real, and one I can understand:
And It is going to be higher.

[Travelhunter123]

copied from the District website

"Each parcel will be charged $124. The additional needed funding will be generated with $0.75 per $1000 of relative improvement value in (market or ‘just’ value minus land value) in a second tier. In addition to the ‘Simplified Funding’, The Villages Independent Fire Control and Rescue District will have the legal ability to generate funding via millage which is an ad-valorem assessment, meaning that it is based on the taxable value of your home. This is capped at one (1) mill which is equivalent to $1 for every $1,000 of the assessable value of residential and commercial properties. This would mean the Board could levy 0 mills or any millage in between to a maximum of 1 mill. Under the purview of the District, these revenue methods will provide enhanced transparency in identifying exactly how much you are paying to fund the services received.

So, will I be paying more?

The following chart provides sample comparisons of the potential maximum levy for fire and EMS services that would be provided by the District of actual properties within the proposed District boundaries (does not include amenity fee). As you can see, the annual increase varies based on the relative improvement value.


Current Process Proposed Process Annual Difference
Patio Villa $171.70 $299.50 $127.80
Patio Villa $196.52 $329.50 $132.98
Courtyard Villa $261.56 $450.45 $188.89
Courtyard Villa $156.58 $313.11 $156.53
Designer $244.16 $432.99 $188.83
Designer $338.19 $628.39 $290.20
Premier $640.16 $1,183.44 $543.28
Premier $721.42 $1,437.29 $715.87
Ranch $240.85 $404.86 $164.01
Ranch $257.61 $432.62 $175.01

Publix Plaza – Colony Blvd $11,664.35 $23,878.01 $12,213.66
Freedom Pointe $16,844.26 $31,173.67 $14,329.41
Brownwood Lofts $19,404.87 $34,780.16 $15,375.29
What will I be getting with the annual increase?

The Villages Public Safety Department heard from the thousands of residents that they wanted better services and response times than they were receiving from the current transport and service provider. This budget was created to include the revenues and expenditures to provide those comprehensive services, consistent to the higher level of services that residents of The Villages expect in all areas of their lifestyle. Most notably, the increased expenses account for the assumption of ambulance and transport services, as well as funding to support future fire stations, apparatus and personnel to maintain a constant state of readiness in this ever-growing community.

If I am no longer paying taxes to Sumter County for fire service, will my Sumter County taxes be reduced?

Only the Sumter County Board of County Commissioners can respond as to their plan for taxing in Sumter County. We urge you to contact them with your questions or concerns by attending a meeting or visiting their website at Sumter County, FL - Official Website | Official Website (https://www.sumtercountyfl.gov/). "

Again, this information is currently on the Village Community Development Districts (http://www.Districtgov.org)

Thank you for a concise and easily understandable review of the impacts and path forward!

[Travelhunter123]

Goldwingnut
“The cost of combining both fire departments into one would be significant, but not so much in dollars but in service”
Generally, when two departments are combined there are cost savings that result from duplication of positions in an organization chart as well as other overlaps. Has this been taken into account in your analysis?

[dougawhite]

Would it be possible to take a previous budget year, say 2021-22, and simulate what the taxes would be under the proposed IFD structure? This way there are no unknowns, since everything is documented from the past (# of homes, assessments, fire & transport costs, etc). This would present an apples to apples comparison of the two methods to organize the fire & ambulance services.

[Bill14564]

This thread makes for fascinating, and very complicated reading: of explanations, estimated and ‘in a perfect world’ cost / tax variables that blur the actual outcome.
As a home owner it is the reality of the bottom line dollar amount on the tax bill due that is simple, real, and one I can understand:
And It is going to be higher.

That seems like a very confident assertion after you seemingly discount an analysis based on the best estimates available. How can you be so confident that taxes will go up?

Then there is the question of how much they will go up.
- If the IFD is not created then the Sumter County Fire-EMS is not separated from the County budget either and we will end up paying for any plus-up in equipment or staff needed to improve that service.

- If the IFD is created but the County Commissioners do not adjust the budget then I may pay an unacceptable additional $600 in taxes.

- If the IFD is created and the County Commissioners offset about 0.71 mils as estimated in the table on the VPSD page then I pay an undesirable additional $300 in taxes.

- If the IFD is created and Commissioner Wiley's calculated offset of 1.66 mils stands then I will see a slight decrease in taxes.

We can't know the numbers until next July; there is no way to determine the numbers until next July. Those numbers will be affected by the new study on how to fund the Sumter County Fire-EMS if the IFD is approved, the economy, the increase in the tax base (number of homes), and the priorities of the commissioners we elect next month (August).

[2newyorkers]

Why would the board be chosen by the governor? Isn't that cronyism instead of a board that has everyone's best interest?

[Bill14564]

Why would the board be chosen by the governor? Isn't that cronyism instead of a board that has everyone's best interest?

How else would you choose the initial members of a board? The residents don't know what the board does yet or what the minimum qualifications would be so allowing the voters to choose would be like the blind leading the blind.

The Governor chooses experienced, qualified individuals for the initial board to get the district up and running and then the residents choose the new members as the terms of the initial board come to an end. As I understand it, that is Florida law.

[gidget72]

Thank you Don for taking the time to explain this to us, can you tell me if the IFD will include us that live in Marion County?

[Dorebea]

Thank you Don. I always appreciate and trust your insights.

[justjim]

Bottom line is if you want quicker response time there are costs involved. Waiting for an ambulance 10 minutes or perhaps more is unacceptable in my community IMHO. I will be voting to improve this service. We can do better.

[jump4]

Don, I’m very confused. Before digging into the financials, I need to understand the overarching issues.

Background:
o Don Wiley states “The vote on the general election ballot on November 8th is only about establishing the IFD and not about the ambulance services. The ambulance service issue was resolved last year and is moving forward in both fire districts. This is the result of residents of The Villages and County Residents requirements for better, more effective, and more responsive emergency transport services. The BOCC listened and reacted accordingly. This higher level of service will come with a price that reflects additional staffing and equipment costs. In the ideal world, these will be cost neutral and self-funding from the transport fees collected.”

o Districtgov.org states “What will I be getting with the annual increase? The Villages Public Safety Department heard from the thousands of residents that they wanted better services and response times than they were receiving from the current transport and service provider. This budget was created to include the revenues and expenditures to provide those comprehensive services, consistent to the higher level of services that residents of The Villages expect in all areas of their lifestyle.


Comments & Questions:
1. Although this emphasizes that the ambulance service issue and the IFD vote this November are separate issues, the messaging seems to treat them as one. For example, “one last thought” on the decision voters must make re: IFD refers to “let the hand of your most cherished one go as they are loaded into the ambulance”
2. It appears the October 2022 change from contracted ambulance service to in-house ambulance and transport should result in better and “more responsive emergency rescue, medical, and transport services”. Given that, why are we considering a separate major change to create two independent Fire Control and Rescue entities?
3. The Districtgov.org site refers to self-governance and autonomy and independent financial sustainability as reasons for forming an IFD. Have Sumter-county residents outside The Villages indicated that they do not also want better and “more responsive emergency rescue, medical, and transport services”?
4. Since the Sumter County Board of County Commissioners (BOCC) previously approved to maintain two distinct Fire & rescue operations I assume they discussed a comprehensive set of pros and cons for establishing the IFD. Could you please share that list (or something similar)?
5. You state that "We will have an independent company review and analyze the costs associated with the county fire department and transport services (ambulance) in the current budget and projected for the upcoming year." Wouldn't it be wise (and perhaps more cost efficient) to have the same independent review and analysis for the VPSD & IFD? Is that planned?
6. To prevent residents from being hit with huge ambulance transport bills, will the new ambulance service be contracted as in-network with major health insurance companies?

Thanks

[Bogie Shooter]

Don, I’m very confused. Before digging into the financials, I need to understand the overarching issues.

Background:
o Don Wiley states “The vote on the general election ballot on November 8th is only about establishing the IFD and not about the ambulance services. The ambulance service issue was resolved last year and is moving forward in both fire districts. This is the result of residents of The Villages and County Residents requirements for better, more effective, and more responsive emergency transport services. The BOCC listened and reacted accordingly. This higher level of service will come with a price that reflects additional staffing and equipment costs. In the ideal world, these will be cost neutral and self-funding from the transport fees collected.”

o Districtgov.org states “What will I be getting with the annual increase? The Villages Public Safety Department heard from the thousands of residents that they wanted better services and response times than they were receiving from the current transport and service provider. This budget was created to include the revenues and expenditures to provide those comprehensive services, consistent to the higher level of services that residents of The Villages expect in all areas of their lifestyle.


Comments & Questions:
1. Although you emphasize that the ambulance service issue and the IFD vote this November are separate issues, the messaging seems to treat them as one. For example, your “one last thought” refers to “let the hand of your most cherished one go as they are loaded into the ambulance”
2. It appears the October 2022 change from contracted ambulance service to in-house ambulance and transport should result in better and “more responsive emergency rescue, medical, and transport services”. Given that, why are we considering a separate major change to create two independent Fire Control and Rescue entities?
3. The Districtgov.org site refers to self-governance and autonomy and independent financial sustainability as reasons for forming an IFD. Have Sumter-county residents outside The Villages indicated that they do not also want better and “more responsive emergency rescue, medical, and transport services”?
4. Since the Sumter County Board of County Commissioners (BOCC) previously approved to maintain two distinct Fire & rescue operations I assume they discussed a comprehensive set of pros and cons for establishing the IFD. Could you please share that list (or something similar)?
5. You state that "We will have an independent company review and analyze the costs associated with the county fire department and transport services (ambulance) in the current budget and projected for the upcoming year." Wouldn't it be wise (and perhaps more cost efficient) to have the same independent review and analysis for the VPSD & IFD?
6. To prevent residents from being hit with huge ambulance transport bills, will the new ambulance service be contracted as in-network with major health insurance companies?

Thanks

You seem to have missed a lot of meetings……………
Maybe this will help.
The Villages Independent Fire Control and Rescue District (https://districtgov.org/departments/Public-Safety/independent-fire-control-and-rescue-district.aspx)
Sumter View Page (http://sumterclerk.granicus.com/ViewPublisher.php?view_id=2)

[Babubhat]

If they can’t figure out the cost now prepare for a shock. How can you trust an entity that can’t do basic accounting? In the business world this would never happen. Easy to spend other peoples money

You can buy a bigger truck for better safety. You can buy more life insurance. Any benefits are speculative

[jump4]

Yes, I missed all the meetings. Most people who will vote on this issue probably missed the meetings. My mind is open, but so far I have not seen information in the local paper or website to justify the proposed change.

[twoplanekid]

Yes, I missed all the meetings. Most people who will vote on this issue probably missed the meetings. My mind is open, but so far I have not seen information in the local paper or website to justify the proposed change.

"What will I be getting with the annual increase?

The Villages Public Safety Department heard from the thousands of residents that they wanted better services and response times than they were receiving from the current transport and service provider. This budget was created to include the revenues and expenditures to provide those comprehensive services, consistent to the higher level of services that residents of The Villages expect in all areas of their lifestyle. Most notably, the increased expenses account for the assumption of ambulance and transport services, as well as funding to support future fire stations, apparatus and personnel to maintain a constant state of readiness in this ever-growing community."

At the moment, this is the position of District staff as presented on the districtgov.org website.

[Papa_lecki]

Taxes are probably going to increase. We wanted better response time from the ambulance - better service is more expensive.

If the improved response time saves your life, your spouse’s life or your best friend’s life, is it worth a few hundred dollars?

It’s like the people who complain about course conditions, and the high greens fees, you can’t have it both ways.

[oldtimes]

Several neighborhoods collected funds from residents and installed their own defibrillators. Many residents elected to contribute, some didn't. Still, we've had defibrillators for a couple of years and have trained individuals living throughout the neighborhood.

Paying your own way is a great way to go.

Heart attacks are not the only medical emergencies they respond to.

[Ndomines]

So why not address MUTUAL AID and emergency responses outside of The Villages? Looks like a pretty lopsided delivery of services. I suspect our neighboring emergency services departments are salivating over what they will get on the backs of Villages tax revenues. That alone will represent a huge service delivery cost obfuscated by the smoke and mirrors of local government budget and tax administrators. The explanations you offer are beautifully written. I wonder if the costs of supporting neighboring
tax districts through UN-MUTUAL aid
was intentionally left out.

[Bogie Shooter]

So why not address MUTUAL AID and emergency responses outside of The Villages? Looks like a pretty lopsided delivery of services. I suspect our neighboring emergency services departments are salivating over what they will get on the backs of Villages tax revenues. That alone will represent a huge service delivery cost obfuscated by the smoke and mirrors of local government budget and tax administrators. The explanations you offer are beautifully written. I wonder if the costs of supporting neighboring
tax districts through UN-MUTUAL aid
was intentionally left out.

From post #13.
Correct, crossing county lines to create an IFD would be incredibly complex, there will be agreements in place between the IFD, Lake County, and Marion County for mutual service. From the public's stand point, there should be little change from what we have now.

[tophcfa]

From post #13.
Correct, crossing county lines to create an IFD would be incredibly complex, there will be agreements in place between the IFD, Lake County, and Marion County for mutual service. From the public's stand point, there should be little change from what we have now.

If there is little chance from what we have now then why change? Hopefully change will be either quicker response time or lower cost. In the end the change will more likely be quicker response time and TBD increased cost?

[Bogie Shooter]

If there is little chance from what we have now then why change? Hopefully change will be either quicker response time or lower cost. In the end the change will more likely be quicker response time and TBD increased cost?

:shrug:

[Bill14564]

If there is little chance from what we have now then why change? Hopefully change will be either quicker response time or lower cost. In the end the change will more likely be quicker response time and TBD increased cost?

From now until Oct 2023:
- The VPSD exists today.
- The VPSD will provide ambulance service starting in October.
- The funding for the VPSD comes from the County budget - the Commissioners set the funding level.

If the IFD does not pass, that is what we will have in Oct 2023 as well.

If the IFD *does* pass then beginning in Oct 2023 the funding for the VPSD will be controlled by the IFD and not by the County Commissioners.
- Property taxes in September 2023 will show the two new funding lines for the IFD (a non-ad-velorem line of 0.75 mils and an ad-velorem line of up to 1 mil)
- *Ideally* the Sumter County property tax line will be reduced by about 1.65mils

The IFD is all about securing a funding source and organizational structure independent of Sumter County. No possibility of Sumter County underfunding the VPSD and no possibility of the VPSD being rolled into (or brought under control of) the SCFD.

[Bilyclub]

One of the difficulties has been getting a map of what the new district will actually look like (if you read the enabling legislation, your eyes will cross!). I received the attached from the district gov office last week and it's the best I've seen so far.
94469

Nice of them to include Lakeside Landings in the fire district.

[Babubhat]

Everything is speculative. No guarantees things get better. And no one will tell you the cost

[twoplanekid]

Everything is speculative. No guarantees things get better. And no one will tell you the cost

Operationally, it is my understanding that new ambulances will replace the fire service trucks that the Villages Fire Dept. would send out on 911 calls to then wait for the old ambulance company to arrive. The new ambulances will be stored in the same bay as these old fire truck vehicles that are no longer needed. In the past, the Villages Fire Dept. vehicle would usually arrive before the ambulance. I would believe that the new Fire Dept. ambulance would now arrive at the same time it took the old Village Fire Dept. truck vehicles to arrive. I asked a fire dept. official if there would be some cost saving as the Fire Dept. is now the ambulance service provider. I didn’t get the jest of his response. At a few stations, there may be two ambulances available?

[jackandbeth]

Am I to assume that this is for Sumter County residents only?
And how will this effect Villages Residents from Marion and Lake counties? Pretty important point I believe, seeing as some our the amenities fees that should be used for ALL of us seem to be going to Sumter residents only.
Please reply

[twoplanekid]

Am I to assume that this is for Sumter County residents only?
And how will this effect Villages Residents from Marion and Lake counties? Pretty important point I believe, seeing as some our the amenities fees that should be used for ALL of us seem to be going to Sumter residents only.
Please reply

The new fire district is for the Villages in Sumter County and will be paid for by residents located in this fire district.

Amenities fees collected are administered by AAC in the older sections of the Villages
VCDD Amenity Authority Committee - AAC (https://www.districtgov.org/committees/aac.aspx)

and PWAC in districts 5-11 with no transfer of funds between these two independent public entities.

Village Community Development Districts (https://www.districtgov.org/committees/pwac.aspx)

[Goldwingnut]

Am I to assume that this is for Sumter County residents only?
And how will this effect Villages Residents from Marion and Lake counties? Pretty important point I believe, seeing as some our the amenities fees that should be used for ALL of us seem to be going to Sumter residents only.
Please reply

Good question!

Yes, $4.08 of each month's amenity fee is applied to the Villages Public Safety budget so there should be some accounting for the residents that live in Lake and Marion counties for these funds.

One might assume that these funds would be used to offset some of the mutual aid costs incurred by the VPSD when/if the IFD is approved, but I don't know the full answer to this question. You need to ask this question to the District Manager, Kenney Blocker, as he and the district staff are dealing with the funding side of the VPSD/ISD issue.

[TrapX]

It has been stated this is ONLY a change to how things are funded. Not how services are provided. And it's been said there will be little to near zero change to the homeowner tax costs, but that appears to be up for debate.
If this is all true, then how will any EMS services change between keeping as-is and making the change? If the new district has nothing to do with service delivery, then why are they promoting better service as a need for the district? Just do it now.
Things don't add up. What is the real truth and why are some officials saying contradicting things?

[Bogie Shooter]

It has been stated this is ONLY a change to how things are funded. Not how services are provided. And it's been said there will be little to near zero change to the homeowner tax costs, but that appears to be up for debate.
If this is all true, then how will any EMS services change between keeping as-is and making the change? If the new district has nothing to do with service delivery, then why are they promoting better service as a need for the district? Just do it now.
Things don't add up. What is the real truth and why are some officials saying contradicting things?

Maybe ask these officials?

[Bill14564]

It has been stated this is ONLY a change to how things are funded. Not how services are provided. And it's been said there will be little to near zero change to the homeowner tax costs, but that appears to be up for debate.
If this is all true, then how will any EMS services change between keeping as-is and making the change? If the new district has nothing to do with service delivery, then why are they promoting better service as a need for the district? Just do it now.
Things don't add up. What is the real truth and why are some officials saying contradicting things?

Posts #1 and #67 should help.

The structures of the VPSD and SCFD, both of which will include ambulance service, will not change whether the IFD is approved or not. Delivery of fire, EMS, and transport services will not change immediately whether the IFD is approved or not, the IFD affects what happens after 2023.

[Goldwingnut]

I received an email from Kenney Blocker this afternoon that included a forwarded email about this posting. The email concluded that I was encouraging people to vote no on the referendum in November, this in not and was never the intent of this post. The post simply (OK, maybe not so simply) explains the processes that are going on now to determine the cost impact of the IFD and why it is not possible to give an exact number until the property values area certified by the Property Appraiser in June of 2023. If anything, I believe that I have actually painted positive picture of what is to come for Villages residents if the IFD is approved. I'll try a brief recap.

1. For those serviced by VPSD there should be no noticeable difference in service if the IFD is approved or not. The Difference will be in the level of control of the funding by the county, will it stay the same or will it be completely independent of the county.
2. The county must identify the cost of all fire services, SCFD and VPSD, and remove it from the general fund budget. This will result in a decrease in the ad valorum tax for everyone in the county. This ensures you are only paying for one fire service, no matter where you live.
3. If approved there will be 2 fire districts in Sumter County next year. Each with its own funding sources - separate MSBU and MSTU for each. VPSD will also receive $4.08/month/property from the amenity fee we all pay. There are also other funding sources that may go into determining the MSBU/MSTU for each fire department. These new fees will replace the ad valorum tax decrease.

Now for my opinion on the topic. As a resident, I believe that this is the best thing for the residents of The Villages as our needs are very different and it is better that we have control over the funding mechanism. The residents of the proposed IFD are the only ones who have a vote in this issue, those serviced by the SCFD have no say.

What I haven't previously discussed is one portion of the math involved, the number and value of the properties involved. The Villages represents about 75-80% of the properties in Sumter County with a higher average property value. Both fire departments have operating budgets in a similar range, which means that 75-80% of the properties will have to cover an operating budget similar to the budget that 20-25% will have to cover. As it stands right now, VPSD residents may pay considerably less for annual fire service than SCFD residents may have to pay. The naysayers and ill-informed neglect to point this out as well as the requirements of the adjustments to the ad valorum property tax to prevent double taxing. Good news doesn't sell newspapers, fear does.

For every decision there are always unintended consequences.

[Goldwingnut]

It has been stated this is ONLY a change to how things are funded. Not how services are provided. And it's been said there will be little to near zero change to the homeowner tax costs, but that appears to be up for debate.
If this is all true, then how will any EMS services change between keeping as-is and making the change? If the new district has nothing to do with service delivery, then why are they promoting better service as a need for the district? Just do it now.
Things don't add up. What is the real truth and why are some officials saying contradicting things?

The improved service delivery is really focused around the transport services (ambulance) that has already been decided, however some internal structural changes will result in a higher level of cross-skills qualifications (all fire fighters being EMT/paramedics) giving greater flexibility and skill to the responding unit. This does come at a cost.

Costs, or paying for these costs, is one of the big issues with the IFD. Currently the county holds the wallet for both fire departments, this has given rise to differences of opinion on what the funding should be for the VPSD and how the additional revenue sources should impact VPSD funding from the county. Letting the VPSD be funded from an IFD will allow the tailoring of services to better fit the needs of the residents and then only the benefiting fire district fund them.

I've not seen any "official" involved in the process have conflicting information or responses, all have been delivering the same message, that the final cost is still being developed because there still a lot of moving parts that must be determined. The easiest of these is perhaps the VPSD costing because it has operated nearly independently for many years now. The hard part is determining the number of homes and the property values that will be ultimately included in the IFD, until that is known the (in June of 2023) the exact millage rate to cover the IFD cost can't be determined. The District (Villages) can't say what the county will do with the tax rates because they are not involved in the county budget. The county can't say what the exact change will be yet because they are still working to identify and isolate the SCFD costs in the county budget and waiting for the Property Appraiser's final determinations.

Where I have seen conflicting opinions is in some candidate's (not officials) opinions on the process. Having listened to many, some are ill- or under-informed on the entire process and subject and are casting dispersions on the process because of their lack of understanding. Many are, in my opinion, trying to make noise to get recognition on the campaign trail, the realities of this issue seem to have no bearing on their "opinions".

My original post here was an attempt to bring to light some of the internal processes that are happening to form the IFD and determine its cost to the homeowners and county residents alike. My previous post here is the first that I know of that anyone has spoken to the math of the 80/20 population split in the county/fire districts and the impact that that will have on the individual residents here in the county.

Perhaps the worst part of all of this is that the people with absolutely no say in the matter, the residents that will not be part of the VPSD IFD in Sumter County, will be the most negatively impacted by this process.

[bobeaston]

Several neighborhoods collected funds from residents and installed their own defibrillators. Many residents elected to contribute, some didn't. Still, we've had defibrillators for a couple of years and have trained individuals living throughout the neighborhood.

Paying your own way is a great way to go.

Please be aware: Defibrillators are good for only ONE condition, when a patient is not responding and not breathing, and has no apparent heartbeat. They are NOT useful for the far more frequent and more common heart attack. While the people who respond to defibrillator calls are great at CPR, we STILL NEED the fire department first responders for heart attacks, as well as other medical emergencies. Don't believe that your local AED program negates the need for Fire department first responders.

Don't get me wrong. I strongly support the defibrillator programs and am active in helping get one started in my village, but I'm also grateful for that Fire Department only a couple of minutes away. We need both!

[Altavia]

...

For every decision there are always unintended consequences.

So true, there are always "Unk Unk's" ( unknowen unknowns).

We can't let those stand in the way of the greater good.

Thanks for providing synthisis of the information currently available.

[jump4]

....the people with absolutely no say in the matter, the residents that will not be part of the VPSD IFD in Sumter County, will be the most negatively impacted by this process.

This is something that concerns me. The tremendous development of The Villages should help elevate the surrounding area, not disadvantage it. Why are the current county commissioners being more transparent about this? Don't they represent the entire county?

?

[paulat585]

This is a very long post on a very complex and important subject. I've taken the time to write it to help everyone understand the Independent Fire District issue.

There is a lot of concern about the upcoming vote on creating an Independent Fire District (IFD) formation vote that is coming up. There is also a lot of speculation and misinformation being spread by some who are trying to pass themselves off as “knowledgeable” or even as “experts”, some of these people are running for the various County Commissioner seats. At The Villages Republican Club meeting on Thursday, I heard some of these individuals speak and, in my opinion, attempt to spread fear and discontent about this as a way to sway voters on the issue and to vote for them. While I am not omnipotent in my knowledge of the topic, recent service as a District Supervisor on the CDD10 board and on PWAC as well as my current service as County Commissioner has had me deeply engaged in the issue.

What follows is an explanation of the issue and how it will impact residents in The Villages as well as outside The Villages in Sumter County. My knowledge about The Villages undertakings on the IFD is up to date as of my leaving office on June 10th when I assumed the position of County Commissioner, for the most up to date information, you should contact Mr. Kenny Blocker, the District Manager.

Concerning the IFD, there are several variables here and I'll try to explain them. Please keep in mind what I will explain is the "ideal" and “theoretical” situation and the numbers involved can and will most likely change so the net impact to any individual property owner or taxpayer is still unknown at this time.

First, we must look at the fire department structure in Sumter County, there are two, the Sumter County Fire & EMS department (SCFD) and The Villages Public Safety department (VPSD). Both are funded from the county general fund budget; the proposed budget is about $19.3M for Sumter County and $17.9M for VPSD for the 2023 fiscal year. About $37.2M in total, this is second only to the $42.4M proposed budget for the Sumter County Sheriff's Office budget.

Funding this is two principal sources 1) the $124 annual fire Municipal Service Benefit Unit (MSBU) for fires services on the property tax bill for each developed property in the county and 2) the county general fund funds the balance of the costs. There are currently 73 funding sources to the general fund and there may be some addition contributions from some of these other sources but for the sake of discussion since these would be minor sources, we’ll focus on these two primary funding sources. The MSBU projected contribution for next year (FY23) is about $9.1M, this leaves about $28.1M coming from the General Fund.

What happens next is the most important part of the process and was approved by the BOCC on Tuesday July 12th. We will have an independent company review and analyze the costs associated with the county fire department and transport services (ambulance) in the current budget and projected for the upcoming year. They will make a recommendation on the path forward for funding of the county fire department. The anticipated action is:
a) The current revenues and expenses for fire service for both fire departments will be removed from the FY24 budget. (Based on FY23 budget numbers this would be $19.3M + $17.9M in cost and $9.1M in revenue). This will result in a decrease of the ad valorem tax millage rate; these numbers are shown at the bottom of this posting.
b) The IFD and Sumter County will set a MSBU (separate, so they may be different for each) would be based on the actual number of properties serviced by each fire department and applied to their FY24 budgets. The Sumter County MSBU will be based on the outcome of the study approved by the BOCC and the IFD as determined by their needs and board’s direction.
c) Some of the remaining costs for the County Fire Department would then be assessed as a Municipal Service Taxing Unit (MSTU) on the properties service by the SCFD and not those serviced by the VSPD. The MSTU would be an ad valorem tax on the property. This will replace the ad valorem tax rate reduction for SCFD serviced residents.
d) The balance of the costs should be recovered in Transport Fees – the fees charged for transport by the county ambulance services that were approved last year. These costs and revenues still need to be calculated.

I'm no longer engaged with the VPSD and District office for The Villages since becoming a member of the BOCC but will share with you what I know of the anticipated plan for the VPSD funding. Please follow up with the District staff and Mr. Kenny Blocker (District Manager) for the most up to date details on this.
a) A board of supervisors for the Independent Fire District will be appointed by the Governor, presumably these will be residents within the IFD.
b) The IFD will determine its funding requirements and operating budget.
c) The IFD board will establish their own MSBU to support their funding – this is the fixed dollar amount per parcel.
d) The board will set their own MSTU (or equivalent) to cover the majority of the operating cost – this is the value-based ad valorem tax millage rate that could be as high as 2 millage points ($2 per $1000 assessed value).
e) The Villages residents also contribute $4.08 each month from each Amenity Fee paid to supplement the VPSD budget, about $3.5M as best I can recall from the budget workshops earlier this year. This helps fund the extra services such as smoke alarm battery change out and AED programs.
f) Like the SCFD, VPSD will also be collecting Transport Fees for the ambulance services they provide, these revenues will also be applied to the operating budget to offset costs.

Again, for the most accurate information please contact Mr. Kenny Blocker, The Villages District Manager.

For both fire departments there may be internal and external revenue sources that may offset some of the operating cost in addition to what I’ve described above. These will be up to their governing boards to pursue.

The vote on the general election ballot on November 8th is only about establishing the IFD and not about the ambulance services. The ambulance service issue was resolved last year and is moving forward in both fire districts. This is the result of residents of The Villages and County Residents requirements for better, more effective, and more responsive emergency transport services. The BOCC listened and reacted accordingly. This higher level of service will come with a price that reflects additional staffing and equipment costs. In the ideal world, these will be cost neutral and self-funding from the transport fees collected.

There may also be some startup costs for both fire departments associated with establishing an IFD that would have to be absorbed in their initial budgets.

In the end you should see on your county tax bill:
a) A lower ad valorem property tax
b) An MSBU – possibly different for each fire district
c) An MSTU – dependent on your fire districts budget requirements and any other offsetting revenue sources.

This method that is in motion that I have described removes the cost of fire protection and transport service from the general property tax bill and collects it from the separate MSBU and MSTU fees. It prevents residents in or outside The Villages from being double taxed for the fire services.

In the ideal world there would be a net zero change in your property tax bill, but there are other factors that come into play such as the costs and revenues from the in-house ambulance services that were approved last year, as well as many other things.

Again, please understand that what I've described is the ideal situation and there are many variables that will impact this and there are a lot of numbers to be crunched to determine the exact impacts and cost. Also, please reach out to Mr. Blocker for more details on the VPSD funding side.

One of the drums that have been being banged by these fear mongering “experts” is that the actual numbers for the cost impact won’t be known until June 30th 2023. While upsetting to some, this is not an attempt from either Sumter County or VPSD to hide anything, it is simply because these numbers are still being and will continue to be calculated. A little forethought should put this issue into perspective:
a) On the county side the ad valorem millage rate adjustment can’t be calculated until the exact number of properties and their values are determined in each fire district is known, this is a huge task that the Property Appraiser must do each fiscal year.
b) Both fire departments have to determine their operating costs under the new configurations, this is still in transition.
c) Transport costs and recovery rates that impact the budgets can’t be accurately determined until they are operational and have some operating history.
d) Current economic conditions (inflation) are very unpredictable, the closer to the go-live point that budgets are determined the more accurate they will be.

All of these things being considered we can do some rough calculations on some of the impact of the proposed changes. I’ll use the proposed FY23 budget numbers to get an approximation of some of the items.
To determine the ad valorem tax millage rate change we need to know two things, 1) the value of the fire service costs to be removed and 2) the value of 1 millage point.

How much will be removed from the general fund budget, I’ve discussed this already discussed this – about $37.2M less the amount collected by the current MSBU of $124/property/year $9.1M or about $28.1M. (unrounded is $28,188,777)

How much is a millage point worth? In the proposed FY23 budget the millage rate of 5.5936 will yield $95,037,767 in ad valorem taxes or about $16,990,447.48 per millage point.

With these numbers the ad valorem tax millage rate anticipated change would be:

$28,188,777/$16,990,447.48 or 1.6591 points or about a 29.7% decrease in the ad valorem tax rate for the county general fund budget.

The current MSBU of $124/yr will also be removed from the county tax bill.

This ad valorem tax decrease and MSBU removal will be replaced by a new tax, an MSTU, and a new MSBU for each fire district on the county tax bill. How much these new taxes are still being determined. If I had to guess, on The Villages side the rates may be comparable between old and new, on the county side it is much more difficult to determine so I won’t speculate at this time.

Again, these numbers are very rough and have a great many other factors that will be considered that will affect them. These are also based on FY23 values and not the more accurate yet to be determined FY24 numbers. Overall, this should give you some ideas of what things are looking like.

Neither the Sumter County BOCC or The Villages District Staff are trying to hide any information or misrepresent anything to anyone, it is simply a very complex and lengthy process both are going through in preparation for a possible approval vote to the referendum in November. Information has been and will continue to be made available as it becomes available.

Finally, once again I say, for the most up to date information on The Villages side of the issue please contact Mr. Kenny Blocker, and on the Sumter County side we won’t have accurate answers until sometime in the first half of 2023 when the study is completed.

I know this explanation is lengthy and detailed, it is a complex issue and process. I hope this explanation has helped you understand where things are going with funding of the fire departments in Sumter County.

One last thought, this may be a difficult decision for some, the only advice I can give on this issue is when to determine if it is worthwhile. The only time you will truly be able to answer what the value of all this is when those big red trucks roll up to your home as the smoke is coming out the windows and all your possessions or the life of someone you love is at risk and these brave men and women step in to do their jobs, or as you let the hand of your most cherished one go as they are loaded into the ambulance on the way to the hospital. It is only at these moments that you will ever know that on November 8th, if you made the right decision.

Thank you

[TrapX]

Look at the candidate's published positions (league of women voter's survey is one) about the cancellation for county tax portion IF the new district tax passes.
Several say they will not remove the double taxation. Simple proof that passing this is not fiscally sound.

[Bill14564]

Look at the candidate's published positions (league of women voter's survey is one) about the cancellation for county tax portion IF the new district tax passes.
Several say they will not remove the double taxation. Simple proof that passing this is not fiscally sound.

Could you provide a simple link to that survey? Or to any other information that backs up your claim? (I'm still looking on the LWV site but haven't found any survey)

EDIT: Never mind, here it is (https://www.vote411.org/personalized-voting-info)
EDIT 2: It appears you didn't read the survey or are intentionally misrepresenting the results. Out of nine candidates, one did not respond, two didn't understand the question (or chose to answer a different question) and the other six supported lowering taxes.

I have listened to two candidate forums and read what has been published in local papers. I have not seen or heard anything from any candidate saying they would "not remove the double taxation." The ONLY thing I have seen or heard in that information is Commissioner Wiley's discussion of the study the current Commissioners have in place to determine how much to remove.

[Bill14564]

...

How much will be removed from the general fund budget, I’ve discussed this already discussed this – about $37.2M less the amount collected by the current MSBU of $124/property/year $9.1M or about $28.1M. (unrounded is $28,188,777)

How much is a millage point worth? In the proposed FY23 budget the millage rate of 5.5936 will yield $95,037,767 in ad valorem taxes or about $16,990,447.48 per millage point.

With these numbers the ad valorem tax millage rate anticipated change would be:

$28,188,777/$16,990,447.48 or 1.6591 points or about a 29.7% decrease in the ad valorem tax rate for the county general fund budget.

The current MSBU of $124/yr will also be removed from the county tax bill.


...

Thank you for these numbers. The discussion is clear and the numbers can easily be found in the FY 22-23 Proforma Budget Document in the BoCC agenda.

However, not all the numbers match.

The Ad Valorem taxes for FY 2023 are $95M as you mention above. With $28 being removed from FY2024 it would be expected that the FY2024 Ad Valorem amount would be $67M + $2M growth for a total of $69M. However, the number shown in the budget document is $81M.

$95M - $28M = $67M (expected)
$81M (actual) - $67M (expected) = $14M (increase)
If $2M of the increase is projected growth that means a $12M tax increase.

$12M (increase) / $67M (expected) = 18% tax increase being planned for the 2023-2024 budget.

These numbers are for the FY2024 budget which will be built next summer.

At which BoCC meeting or workshop next year would it be appropriate to discuss what appears to be the second large tax increase in five years?

[Altavia]

Thank you for these numbers. The discussion is clear and the numbers can easily be found in the FY 22-23 Proforma Budget Document in the BoCC agenda.

However, not all the numbers match.

The Ad Valorem taxes for FY 2023 are $95M as you mention above. With $28 being removed from FY2024 it would be expected that the FY2024 Ad Valorem amount would be $67M + $2M growth for a total of $69M. However, the number shown in the budget document is $81M.

$95M - $28M = $67M (expected)
$81M (actual) - $67M (expected) = $14M (increase)
If $2M of the increase is projected growth that means a $12M tax increase.

$12M (increase) / $67M (expected) = 18% tax increase being planned for the 2023-2024 budget.

These numbers are for the FY2024 budget which will be built next summer.

At which BoCC meeting or workshop next year would it be appropriate to discuss what appears to be the second large tax increase in five years?

Thanks for the synthisis Don!

[Rainger99]

One last thought, this may be a difficult decision for some, the only advice I can give on this issue is when to determine if it is worthwhile. The only time you will truly be able to answer what the value of all this is when those big red trucks roll up to your home as the smoke is coming out the windows and all your possessions or the life of someone you love is at risk and these brave men and women step in to do their jobs, or as you let the hand of your most cherished one go as they are loaded into the ambulance on the way to the hospital.

I am new here so I don't know much about the current services.

Are people dying because of long wait times for ambulances or are houses burning down because fire trucks aren't getting to the scene on time? How do response times compare to the rest of Florida? Are we slower, faster, or about the same?

[Altavia]

I am new here so I don't know much about the current services.

Are people dying because of long wait times for ambulances or are houses burning down because fire trucks aren't getting to the scene on time? How do response times compare to the rest of Florida? Are we slower, faster, or about the same?

EMT/Fire are usually on the scene within 5-10 min.

It's not unusual for an ambulance to arrive (if needed) 30-40 min after EMT/Fire services arrive.

This obviously delays the patient reaching emergency/hospital services and ties up EMT/Fire services longer than necessary.

[Rainger99]

It's not unusual for an ambulance to arrive (if needed) 30-40 min after EMT/Fire services arrive.


What is the reason for this delay?

And how will a new district make response times better?

[Kenswing]

What is the reason for this delay?

And how will a new district make response times better?

Because the current ambulance transport provider (AMR) didn’t have enough resources dedicated to the county. I think Don said that they only had 7 or 8 ambulances county wide. The Villages Public Safety Department has purchased 12 new ambulances. Of those, nine will be front line units with 3 used as spares. The County has also purchased, I think 12 ambulances. So you can see that county wide we’re going from about 7 available ambulances to around twenty or so. I would say it’s fair to assume we’ll see higher fire costs. We just tripled the number of ambulances we’ll have. I’ll happily pay the increase to insure my loved ones and neighbors can get to the hospital in a reasonable time.

[Altavia]

Because the current ambulance transport provider (AMR) didn’t have enough resources dedicated to the county. I think Don said that they only had 7 or 8 county wide. The Villages Public Safety Department has purchased 12 new ambulances. Of those, nine will be front line units with 3 used as spares. The County has also purchased, I think 12 ambulances. So you can see that county wide we’re going from about 7 available ambulances to around twenty or so. I would say it’s fair to assume we’ll see higher fire costs. We just tripled the number of ambulances we’ll have. I’ll happily pay the increase to insure my loved one and neighbors can get to the hospital in a reasonable time.

Agree, many Villages have resident purchased defibrillators which are less effective with delayed ambulance response times.

Do I understand correctly ambulances will replace the existing Villages EMT vehicles and use existing staff?

[Kenswing]

Agree, many Villages have resident purchased defibrillators which are less effective with delayed ambulance response times.

Do I understand correctly ambulances will replace the existing Villages EMT vehicles and use existing staff?

Our village has ordered defibrillators and trained about 100 responders. Our defibrillators are on back order due to supply chain issues.

From what I understand they will be eliminating the quick response units (pickup trucks) we called them aid cars, and replacing them with the ambulances. They are already paramedic staffed as are the engines so other than apparatus familiarization it should be a pretty seamless transition. I’m not sure what the situation is with the county as far as manpower and training.

[moerman]

any update info on Independent Fire District Cost Impact Information. i

[kaznerm]

This is a very long post on a very complex and important subject. I've taken the time to write it to help everyone understand the Independent Fire District issue.

There is a lot of concern about the upcoming vote on creating an Independent Fire District (IFD) formation vote that is coming up. There is also a lot of speculation and misinformation being spread by some who are trying to pass themselves off as “knowledgeable” or even as “experts”, some of these people are running for the various County Commissioner seats. At The Villages Republican Club meeting on Thursday, I heard some of these individuals speak and, in my opinion, attempt to spread fear and discontent about this as a way to sway voters on the issue and to vote for them. While I am not omnipotent in my knowledge of the topic, recent service as a District Supervisor on the CDD10 board and on PWAC as well as my current service as County Commissioner has had me deeply engaged in the issue.

What follows is an explanation of the issue and how it will impact residents in The Villages as well as outside The Villages in Sumter County. My knowledge about The Villages undertakings on the IFD is up to date as of my leaving office on June 10th when I assumed the position of County Commissioner, for the most up to date information, you should contact Mr. Kenny Blocker, the District Manager.

Concerning the IFD, there are several variables here and I'll try to explain them. Please keep in mind what I will explain is the "ideal" and “theoretical” situation and the numbers involved can and will most likely change so the net impact to any individual property owner or taxpayer is still unknown at this time.

First, we must look at the fire department structure in Sumter County, there are two, the Sumter County Fire & EMS department (SCFD) and The Villages Public Safety department (VPSD). Both are funded from the county general fund budget; the proposed budget is about $19.3M for Sumter County and $17.9M for VPSD for the 2023 fiscal year. About $37.2M in total, this is second only to the $42.4M proposed budget for the Sumter County Sheriff's Office budget.

Funding this is two principal sources 1) the $124 annual fire Municipal Service Benefit Unit (MSBU) for fires services on the property tax bill for each developed property in the county and 2) the county general fund funds the balance of the costs. There are currently 73 funding sources to the general fund and there may be some addition contributions from some of these other sources but for the sake of discussion since these would be minor sources, we’ll focus on these two primary funding sources. The MSBU projected contribution for next year (FY23) is about $9.1M, this leaves about $28.1M coming from the General Fund.

What happens next is the most important part of the process and was approved by the BOCC on Tuesday July 12th. We will have an independent company review and analyze the costs associated with the county fire department and transport services (ambulance) in the current budget and projected for the upcoming year. They will make a recommendation on the path forward for funding of the county fire department. The anticipated action is:
a) The current revenues and expenses for fire service for both fire departments will be removed from the FY24 budget. (Based on FY23 budget numbers this would be $19.3M + $17.9M in cost and $9.1M in revenue). This will result in a decrease of the ad valorem tax millage rate; these numbers are shown at the bottom of this posting.
b) The IFD and Sumter County will set a MSBU (separate, so they may be different for each) would be based on the actual number of properties serviced by each fire department and applied to their FY24 budgets. The Sumter County MSBU will be based on the outcome of the study approved by the BOCC and the IFD as determined by their needs and board’s direction.
c) Some of the remaining costs for the County Fire Department would then be assessed as a Municipal Service Taxing Unit (MSTU) on the properties service by the SCFD and not those serviced by the VSPD. The MSTU would be an ad valorem tax on the property. This will replace the ad valorem tax rate reduction for SCFD serviced residents.
d) The balance of the costs should be recovered in Transport Fees – the fees charged for transport by the county ambulance services that were approved last year. These costs and revenues still need to be calculated.

I'm no longer engaged with the VPSD and District office for The Villages since becoming a member of the BOCC but will share with you what I know of the anticipated plan for the VPSD funding. Please follow up with the District staff and Mr. Kenny Blocker (District Manager) for the most up to date details on this.
a) A board of supervisors for the Independent Fire District will be appointed by the Governor, presumably these will be residents within the IFD.
b) The IFD will determine its funding requirements and operating budget.
c) The IFD board will establish their own MSBU to support their funding – this is the fixed dollar amount per parcel.
d) The board will set their own MSTU (or equivalent) to cover the majority of the operating cost – this is the value-based ad valorem tax millage rate that could be as high as 2 millage points ($2 per $1000 assessed value).
e) The Villages residents also contribute $4.08 each month from each Amenity Fee paid to supplement the VPSD budget, about $3.5M as best I can recall from the budget workshops earlier this year. This helps fund the extra services such as smoke alarm battery change out and AED programs.
f) Like the SCFD, VPSD will also be collecting Transport Fees for the ambulance services they provide, these revenues will also be applied to the operating budget to offset costs.

Again, for the most accurate information please contact Mr. Kenny Blocker, The Villages District Manager.

For both fire departments there may be internal and external revenue sources that may offset some of the operating cost in addition to what I’ve described above. These will be up to their governing boards to pursue.

The vote on the general election ballot on November 8th is only about establishing the IFD and not about the ambulance services. The ambulance service issue was resolved last year and is moving forward in both fire districts. This is the result of residents of The Villages and County Residents requirements for better, more effective, and more responsive emergency transport services. The BOCC listened and reacted accordingly. This higher level of service will come with a price that reflects additional staffing and equipment costs. In the ideal world, these will be cost neutral and self-funding from the transport fees collected.

There may also be some startup costs for both fire departments associated with establishing an IFD that would have to be absorbed in their initial budgets.

In the end you should see on your county tax bill:
a) A lower ad valorem property tax
b) An MSBU – possibly different for each fire district
c) An MSTU – dependent on your fire districts budget requirements and any other offsetting revenue sources.

This method that is in motion that I have described removes the cost of fire protection and transport service from the general property tax bill and collects it from the separate MSBU and MSTU fees. It prevents residents in or outside The Villages from being double taxed for the fire services.

In the ideal world there would be a net zero change in your property tax bill, but there are other factors that come into play such as the costs and revenues from the in-house ambulance services that were approved last year, as well as many other things.

Again, please understand that what I've described is the ideal situation and there are many variables that will impact this and there are a lot of numbers to be crunched to determine the exact impacts and cost. Also, please reach out to Mr. Blocker for more details on the VPSD funding side.

One of the drums that have been being banged by these fear mongering “experts” is that the actual numbers for the cost impact won’t be known until June 30th 2023. While upsetting to some, this is not an attempt from either Sumter County or VPSD to hide anything, it is simply because these numbers are still being and will continue to be calculated. A little forethought should put this issue into perspective:
a) On the county side the ad valorem millage rate adjustment can’t be calculated until the exact number of properties and their values are determined in each fire district is known, this is a huge task that the Property Appraiser must do each fiscal year.
b) Both fire departments have to determine their operating costs under the new configurations, this is still in transition.
c) Transport costs and recovery rates that impact the budgets can’t be accurately determined until they are operational and have some operating history.
d) Current economic conditions (inflation) are very unpredictable, the closer to the go-live point that budgets are determined the more accurate they will be.

All of these things being considered we can do some rough calculations on some of the impact of the proposed changes. I’ll use the proposed FY23 budget numbers to get an approximation of some of the items.
To determine the ad valorem tax millage rate change we need to know two things, 1) the value of the fire service costs to be removed and 2) the value of 1 millage point.

How much will be removed from the general fund budget, I’ve discussed this already discussed this – about $37.2M less the amount collected by the current MSBU of $124/property/year $9.1M or about $28.1M. (unrounded is $28,188,777)

How much is a millage point worth? In the proposed FY23 budget the millage rate of 5.5936 will yield $95,037,767 in ad valorem taxes or about $16,990,447.48 per millage point.

With these numbers the ad valorem tax millage rate anticipated change would be:

$28,188,777/$16,990,447.48 or 1.6591 points or about a 29.7% decrease in the ad valorem tax rate for the county general fund budget.

The current MSBU of $124/yr will also be removed from the county tax bill.

This ad valorem tax decrease and MSBU removal will be replaced by a new tax, an MSTU, and a new MSBU for each fire district on the county tax bill. How much these new taxes are still being determined. If I had to guess, on The Villages side the rates may be comparable between old and new, on the county side it is much more difficult to determine so I won’t speculate at this time.

Again, these numbers are very rough and have a great many other factors that will be considered that will affect them. These are also based on FY23 values and not the more accurate yet to be determined FY24 numbers. Overall, this should give you some ideas of what things are looking like.

Neither the Sumter County BOCC or The Villages District Staff are trying to hide any information or misrepresent anything to anyone, it is simply a very complex and lengthy process both are going through in preparation for a possible approval vote to the referendum in November. Information has been and will continue to be made available as it becomes available.

Finally, once again I say, for the most up to date information on The Villages side of the issue please contact Mr. Kenny Blocker, and on the Sumter County side we won’t have accurate answers until sometime in the first half of 2023 when the study is completed.

I know this explanation is lengthy and detailed, it is a complex issue and process. I hope this explanation has helped you understand where things are going with funding of the fire departments in Sumter County.

One last thought, this may be a difficult decision for some, the only advice I can give on this issue is when to determine if it is worthwhile. The only time you will truly be able to answer what the value of all this is when those big red trucks roll up to your home as the smoke is coming out the windows and all your possessions or the life of someone you love is at risk and these brave men and women step in to do their jobs, or as you let the hand of your most cherished one go as they are loaded into the ambulance on the way to the hospital. It is only at these moments that you will ever know that on November 8th, if you made the right decision.

You have explained how the issue could financially affect us, but what I would like to know is how our fire services would change if the measure is passed.

[Daddymac]

I agree completely with the concept and improved response time.
The controversy’s seem to be the complexity and lack of firm budgets and estimates .
We are being asked to take a “leap of faith” and trust the impact is approximately cost neutral.
It would be easier to decide if the proponents provided a firm not to exceed budget of + or - X percent

Read up on it!!! They said there will be NO CHANGE TO THE SERVICES !! :confused::confused::confused:

[Daddymac]

The fire department staffers calculated the new fire assessment fee. Based on the results of this analysis, she determined that Instead of paying $124.00, they will be paying $516.00. Your fee will be different from others because all properties ARE NOT being assessed the same fee. The fee will be based on the MARKET VALUE of your house. A home in your neighborhood may be paying more than you or less than you, even though you will be receiving the SAME SERVICES. If your house burns, or another house burns, both will still get the same number of responders and fire trucks no matter how much of a fee has been paid.

There is no cap on the residential fees that will be charged, and they can increase yearly. There is a cap on commercial properties … Guess who that benefits?
There ARE NO NEW SERVICES if the referendum passes!

I am very concerned, and do not like the thought of paying this added tax on top of all the other taxes we already pay…......and based on MARKET value!!

Ambulances have been purchased and are ready to go October 1, 2022 and will be staffed with paramedics from the fire dept.



If the referendum is VOTED DOWN, the county continues to fund the fire dept. (FUNDING HAS NEVER BEEN DENIED BY THE COUNTY) and we continue to receive all the services we have been getting.
The referendum, if passed, would set up a NEW TAXING DISTRICT controlled by The Villages for the first 3–5 years before we can start electing villagers of our choice. If the referendum is passed, it CANNOT be reversed or undone. It will be here to stay!


Please vote NO on this referendum on November 8th. OUR NEW ambulance service and existing fire department will not change if you vote NO!
Please forward to fellow villagers . . . . . .

[Kenswing]

The fire department staffers calculated the new fire assessment fee. Based on the results of this analysis, she determined that Instead of paying $124.00, they will be paying $516.00. Your fee will be different from others because all properties ARE NOT being assessed the same fee. The fee will be based on the MARKET VALUE of your house. A home in your neighborhood may be paying more than you or less than you, even though you will be receiving the SAME SERVICES. If your house burns, or another house burns, both will still get the same number of responders and fire trucks no matter how much of a fee has been paid.

There is no cap on the residential fees that will be charged, and they can increase yearly. There is a cap on commercial properties … Guess who that benefits?
There ARE NO NEW SERVICES if the referendum passes!

I am very concerned, and do not like the thought of paying this added tax on top of all the other taxes we already pay…......and based on MARKET value!!

Ambulances have been purchased and are ready to go October 1, 2022 and will be staffed with paramedics from the fire dept.



If the referendum is VOTED DOWN, the county continues to fund the fire dept. (FUNDING HAS NEVER BEEN DENIED BY THE COUNTY) and we continue to receive all the services we have been getting.
The referendum, if passed, would set up a NEW TAXING DISTRICT controlled by The Villages for the first 3–5 years before we can start electing villagers of our choice. If the referendum is passed, it CANNOT be reversed or undone. It will be here to stay!


Please vote NO on this referendum on November 8th. OUR NEW ambulance service and existing fire department will not change if you vote NO!
Please forward to fellow villagers . . . . . .
Quit telling people how to vote. We’re all capable of making our own decisions.

Again. Are you an elected official? A board member of one of the homeowners groups or just a concerned citizen? Just trying to determine your motivation in this whole thing. You seem to be more vested than most.

[Bill14564]

The fire department staffers calculated the new fire assessment fee. Based on the results of this analysis, she determined that Instead of paying $124.00, they will be paying $516.00. Your fee will be different from others because all properties ARE NOT being assessed the same fee. The fee will be based on the MARKET VALUE of your house. A home in your neighborhood may be paying more than you or less than you, even though you will be receiving the SAME SERVICES. If your house burns, or another house burns, both will still get the same number of responders and fire trucks no matter how much of a fee has been paid.

There is no cap on the residential fees that will be charged, and they can increase yearly. There is a cap on commercial properties … Guess who that benefits?
There ARE NO NEW SERVICES if the referendum passes!

I am very concerned, and do not like the thought of paying this added tax on top of all the other taxes we already pay…......and based on MARKET value!!

Ambulances have been purchased and are ready to go October 1, 2022 and will be staffed with paramedics from the fire dept.



If the referendum is VOTED DOWN, the county continues to fund the fire dept. (FUNDING HAS NEVER BEEN DENIED BY THE COUNTY) and we continue to receive all the services we have been getting.
The referendum, if passed, would set up a NEW TAXING DISTRICT controlled by The Villages for the first 3–5 years before we can start electing villagers of our choice. If the referendum is passed, it CANNOT be reversed or undone. It will be here to stay!


Please vote NO on this referendum on November 8th. OUR NEW ambulance service and existing fire department will not change if you vote NO!
Please forward to fellow villagers . . . . . .

STILL MISLEADING! See discussion in the other thread on this topic.

[kkingston57]

This thread makes for fascinating, and very complicated reading: of explanations, estimated and ‘in a perfect world’ cost / tax variables that blur the actual outcome.
As a home owner it is the reality of the bottom line dollar amount on the tax bill due that is simple, real, and one I can understand:
And It is going to be higher.

Best response to all of the opinions/what if's in this string. This is a complicated issue and will never end. Some people want Rolls Royce service on a Ford/Chevy budget and with at least 4 different entities, The Villages, Lake County, Sumter County and Marion County.

[Mrs.Guy]

Quit telling people how to vote. We’re all capable of making our own decisions.

Again. Are you an elected official? A board member of one of the homeowners groups or just a concerned citizen? Just trying to determine your motivation in this whole thing. You seem to be more vested than most.

:confused: I too am trying to determine his motivation. I find it hard to believe that a Villager wants Sumter Co.(the people that gave us AMR) to stay in control of our VPSD. What am I missing?

[Bilyclub]

Did you forget that the county commissioners who put AMR in were backed by the developer.
What the developer wants, the developer gets, one way or another. Even when the people voted
in the 3 county commissioners, who won that battle in the end ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZYG2PCyNfE

[dewilson58]

who won that battle in the end ?


what battle??

[dewilson58]

It's not unusual for an ambulance to arrive (if needed) 30-40 min after EMT/Fire services arrive.

Have not heard this.................please share your supporting data and source.

[Stu from NYC]

what battle??

You know very well what battle.

[Happydaz]

1. The cost will be established by unelected people, not necessarily from TV.
2. The actual cost per homeowner won’t be known until June 2023.
3. The assessment will be based on actual home values instead of assessed value. Who determines them?

While Mr. Wiley’s response is long, he failed to address why so many were concerned about the cost last Thursday. If he was there, why didn’t he speak up?

If you thought the 25% tax increase over the roads was bad, you haven’t seen anything yet.

I think more of us would be interested in the cost for one fire department in Sumter county instead of two.

This was a reasoned response to the complex subject being discussed here. Where I came from in New England there was no way a high cost item with fuzzy math like this would ever pass on a first or second vote. It took 6 years to pass a bill to pay for a new police station. The price was cut in half in year six and the town of 7000 approved the expense.

[JMintzer]

Quit telling people how to vote. We’re all capable of making our own decisions.

Again. Are you an elected official? A board member of one of the homeowners groups or just a concerned citizen? Just trying to determine your motivation in this whole thing. You seem to be more vested than most.

"Please vote no" is TELLING people how to vote?

I read it as his opinion and a request...

[oldtimes]

:confused: I too am trying to determine his motivation. I find it hard to believe that a Villager wants Sumter Co.(the people that gave us AMR) to stay in control of our VPSD. What am I missing?

Absolutely agree. This poster sounds like more than a concerned Villager.

[oldtimes]

"Please vote no" is TELLING people how to vote?

I read it as his opinion and a request...

“Please forward to fellow villagers . . . . . .“ sounds like more than a request

[dewilson58]

Just trying to determine your motivation in this whole thing.

Lives in NYC.................need to know anything more???

:evil6:

[dewilson58]

You have explained how the issue could financially affect us, but what I would like to know is how our fire services would change if the measure is passed.

That can not be answered.............changes will be determined by FD Leadership in place in the future (may be new leadership, may be the same leadership).

[Bill14564]

Have not heard this.................please share your supporting data and source.

There is this: https://www.**************.com/2021/06/24/the-villages-fire-chief-contends-fire-departments-should-take-over-ambulance-operations/ (https://www.**************.com/2021/06/24/the-villages-fire-chief-contends-fire-departments-should-take-over-ambulance-operations/)(replace the broken link with the news-site-that-shall-not-be-named). I'm sure there are documents on the ad-hoc committee pages that support this as well but I haven't taken the time to find them yet.

[dewilson58]

There is this:

Over one and a half years old news.

[Babubhat]

If it can’t be explained in one paragraph forget it. Don’t expect a complicated matter to turn out well with the usual suspects involved

[Bill14564]

Over one and a half years old news.

What you missed....

About one and a half years ago a commission was put together to look for solutions to the ambulance response times. The ultimate outcome of that effort was adding ambulance service to both the VPSD and the SCFD beginning the first of this month. Service did start under the VPSD but I think there is a delay with the SCFD side of things.

Recent articles have mentioned the large number of calls that have been received and the good response times in the Villages. Hopefully, that continues in the Villages and is also seen in the rest of the county once the SCFD begins providing that service.

During the vote of the ad-hoc committee, a motion was made and seconded to combine the VPSD and SCFD rather than keeping them separate. The motion was defeated at the time but some link the current push for the IFD back to that motion. One of those on the ad-hoc committee who was associated with that motion is a newly elected commissioner. The IFD would protect the VPSD from that same motion being made at the BoCC level.

[dewilson58]

If it can’t be explained in one paragraph forget it. Don’t expect a complicated matter to turn out well with the usual suspects involved

I know what you are saying..........about the Usuals.

But, there are people who will read and will analyze and will educate themself.

I have extensive experience with city, county and state fund accounting and budgeting and Don did a great job accurately explaining.

I believe there are some who learned.

The Usuals, they will continue.

:pepper2:

[Bilyclub]

what battle??


The impact fee increase that never happened.

[Stu from NYC]

The impact fee increase that never happened.

The developer did have his executive vp who was also in the Fl legislature put forth legislation that he wanted passed. Than he hired a law firm to dig up dirt on the three newly elected commissioners. In other words what the developers wants he does get

[dewilson58]

The impact fee increase that never happened.

If that was a battle, the battle was over before the first swing.

That was no battle.

That was a silly campaign promise, promised by inexperienced candidates, an believed by some voters.

[Bill14564]

If that was a battle, the battle was over before the first swing.

That was no battle.

That was a silly campaign promise, promised by inexperienced candidates, an believed by some voters.

I have to disagree in part. The voters (some) believed the BoCC had some control over how the county was run. The promise was kept and the measure was passed to raise the road impact fees.

As it turns out, in reality neither the BoCC nor the voters control the county: the decision was taken out of their hands and the commissioners were removed from the BoCC.

[dewilson58]

The promise was kept and the measure was passed to raise the road impact fees.


The silly promise was, reversing the 25% increase in RE Taxes by increasing the Impact Fee................that was never going to happen.

Voters didn't care about a minor increase in the Impact Fee...........they wanted the 25% reversed.

[Bill14564]

The silly promise was, reversing the 25% increase in RE Taxes by increasing the Impact Fee................that was never going to happen.

Voters didn't care about a minor increase in the Impact Fee...........they wanted the 25% reversed.

True. The 25% increase (it was actually more) was never going to be reversed by raising impact fees - the numbers just didn't match up.

Interesting that what was probably the real cause of the increase, paying for the new roads for the southern area, has been covered already yet the increase remains in place. Once a tax is in place it is nearly impossible to remove.

It will be interesting to see what happens if the IFD passes. With the VPSD and SCFD removed from the general fund (about 30% of the total ad-valorem income), property taxes should be lowered to about 70% of the 2023 rollback rate. I am skeptical.

[nsantelli]

Thanks for the background and explainations.

This is more than just the money. Having a neighbor recently die of a heart attack waiting over 20 min for ambulance illustrates the need for improvement of our services..

The Ambulance service has already been improved. As of October 1, the Blue ambulances run by contractors are gone. Service now provided by VFD. A neighbor fell off a ladder last week. A brand new, fire engine red ambulance, manned by experienced VFD medical personnel arrived in less than 5 minutes. A fire engine with additional medical personnel arrived 1 minute later. Before Oct 1, a fire engine would always arrive before the ambulance. Why - because fire engines are stationed at each fire house and were closer. Now ambulances are also located at the fire stations.

Please reread the above post. The new and improved ambulance service, which has been up and running for over two weeks is NOT dependent upon the IFD.

[dewilson58]

It will be interesting to see what happens if the IFD passes. With the VPSD and SCFD removed from the general fund (about 30% of the total ad-valorem income), property taxes should be lowered to about 70% of the 2023 rollback rate. I am skeptical.

That's where involvement in the Budget Process by concerned people is critical.

The expenses will be removed, but what new expenses will be added by departments during the budget process. In the perfect world...........if other expenses are controlled, we will taste the rollback. :icon_hungry:

[Bridget Staunton]

Thank you for your in-depth analysis & the time it took. God bless you, much appreciated

[Goldwingnut]

The Ambulance service has already been improved. As of October 1, the Blue ambulances run by contractors are gone. Service now provided by VFD. A neighbor fell off a ladder last week. A brand new, fire engine red ambulance, manned by experienced VFD medical personnel arrived in less than 5 minutes. A fire engine with additional medical personnel arrived 1 minute later. Before Oct 1, a fire engine would always arrive before the ambulance. Why - because fire engines are stationed at each fire house and were closer. Now ambulances are also located at the fire stations.

Please reread the above post. The new and improved ambulance service, which has been up and running for over two weeks is NOT dependent upon the IFD.

It's also not protected by an IFD. If the IFD is not approved and the county budget become tight because of inflation or a recession that is now predicted to happen, then the VPSD budget could be cut, or worse yet VPSD dissolved into the SCFD (not on my watch!), and then we could be going back to the poor service we had experienced for years. If nothing else, the IFD will protect the ambulance service from tampering by those who may not have the best interest of The Villages residents in mind.

[Altavia]

"The IFD will protect the ambulance service from tampering by those who may not have the best interest of The Villages residents in mind."

Exactly.

[Babubhat]

Mail in ballots should have already been sent in. No reason to wait and keep debating. Not trusting anyone who can’t give an accurate cost.

[JMintzer]

“Please forward to fellow villagers . . . . . .“ sounds like more than a request

No, "please do something" is a request...

[oldtimes]

No, "please do something" is a request...

No it is an agenda. I still think this person has something to gain besides worrying about their taxes.

[golfing eagles]

Most of this thread covers the funding for a separate IFD, so why not make it easy:

Take the number of parcels in the newly created IFD, divide it into the cost and raise the current MSBU of $124 to whatever it needs to be and skip the progressive home value tax (MSTU). This gets the emergency service cost out of the general budget and rids us of the inequity of 2 neighbors paying different amounts for the same service.

[Babubhat]

From vn site

Veteran fireman says don't make a 'horrible mistake' - **************.com (https://tinyurl.com/c2xex72h)

[JMintzer]

No it is an agenda. I still think this person has something to gain besides worrying about their taxes.

It can be both. Personally, I don't really care. Everyone has their own opinions and agendas...

[oldtimes]

Most of this thread covers the funding for a separate IFD, so why not make it easy:

Take the number of parcels in the newly created IFD, divide it into the cost and raise the current MSBU of $124 to whatever it needs to be and skip the progressive home value tax (MSTU). This gets the emergency service cost out of the general budget and rids us of the inequity of 2 neighbors paying different amounts for the same service.

So you don't think that putting out a fire at a large multi floor premier home requires more manpower than a small 2 bedroom patio villa?

[Altavia]

So you don't think that putting out a fire at a large multi floor premier home requires more manpower than a small 2 bedroom patio villa?

How many home fires do we see in The Villages?

[golfing eagles]

So you don't think that putting out a fire at a large multi floor premier home requires more manpower than a small 2 bedroom patio villa?

Very slightly more---certainly not triple or higher. And all fire services are on an incremental cost basis. Based on Don's numbers it essentially costs 37 million to fight the first fire, and then $0.98 for each one thereafter----No different than the post office-----$100 billion to mail the first letter and $0.000005 for every one thereafter

PS: 2 story premier???? what model is that?????

[oldtimes]

Very slightly more---certainly not triple or higher. And all fire services are on an incremental cost basis. Based on Don's numbers it essentially costs 37 million to fight the first fire, and then $0.98 for each one thereafter----No different than the post office-----$100 billion to mail the first letter and $0.000005 for every one thereafter

PS: 2 story premier???? what model is that?????

I don't know what the model is but we went into one in the Village of McClure a couple of years ago with our friends who were visiting. The master bedroom was upstairs.

Actually I found one
2 story home (https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/1502-Wresh-Way_The-Villages_FL_32162_M58002-82208)

[golfing eagles]

I don't know what the model is but we went into one in the Village of McClure a couple of years ago with our friends who were visiting. The master bedroom was upstairs.

Actually I found one
2 story home (https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/1502-Wresh-Way_The-Villages_FL_32162_M58002-82208)

Is that a real 2nd story or just for show, like the St. John's model? And if real, it may very well be an owner addition---just like the 2 homes that are behind #2 of Seminole at Belle Glade.

And an afterthought to incremental costs-----we all "know" it costs more to educate a student in our public schools if you live in a "2 story premier" than a courtyard villa, right?????

[Byte1]

Since I am an aging senior and may be a bit slow at comprehending a lot of verbiage, can someone please answer what I consider a very simple question? It may have been addressed, but maybe someone can simplify it in plain English that I can understand.
Question:
If we vote yes, then TV (Sumter Co portion) has it's own Fire Dept and is responsible for the financing of it?
If we vote NO, then the whole county (Sumter) continues to pay for the Fire Dept? Since it would be a WHOLE county tax payers financed service then we would share the cost? If we segregate to a private Fire Dept. then TV portion of Sumter Co. would be responsible for the WHOLE cost?
Sorry, more than one question.
Just a thought: Seems like if we take on the added responsibility of financing our own FD, then this would be similar to paying our bonds that supposedly pays for Infrastructure in TV. I've paid my bond off, but adding the TVFD financing to my taxes seems like it would be like tacking another uncapped bond to my yearly tax. Right now, we pay for the FD but the whole county shares the cost, not just TV. Or am I mistaken?
If I am right, I can see NO justification for voting "YES"

[golfing eagles]

Since I am an aging senior and may be a bit slow at comprehending a lot of verbiage, can someone please answer what I consider a very simple question? It may have been addressed, but maybe someone can simplify it in plain English that I can understand.
Question:
If we vote yes, then TV (Sumter Co portion) has it's own Fire Dept and is responsible for the financing of it?
If we vote NO, then the whole county (Sumter) continues to pay for the Fire Dept? Since it would be a WHOLE county tax payers financed service then we would share the cost? If we segregate to a private Fire Dept. then TV portion of Sumter Co. would be responsible for the WHOLE cost?
Sorry, more than one question.
Just a thought: Seems like if we take on the added responsibility of financing our own FD, then this would be similar to paying our bonds that supposedly pays for Infrastructure in TV. I've paid my bond off, but adding the TVFD financing to my taxes seems like it would be like tacking another uncapped bond to my yearly tax. Right now, we pay for the FD but the whole county shares the cost, not just TV. Or am I mistaken?
If I am right, I can see NO justification for voting "YES"

Don Wiley is in a better position to clarify those statements.
I would also like to pose another simple question:

We know the financing may have unexpected costs, but outside of more local control I'll ask this:

What are the advantages of financing the VSPD separately?????

[Bill14564]

Since I am an aging senior and may be a bit slow at comprehending a lot of verbiage, can someone please answer what I consider a very simple question? It may have been addressed, but maybe someone can simplify it in plain English that I can understand.
Question:
If we vote yes, then TV (Sumter Co portion) has it's own Fire Dept and is responsible for the financing of it?
If we vote NO, then the whole county (Sumter) continues to pay for the Fire Dept? Since it would be a WHOLE county tax payers financed service then we would share the cost? If we segregate to a private Fire Dept. then TV portion of Sumter Co. would be responsible for the WHOLE cost?
Sorry, more than one question.
Just a thought: Seems like if we take on the added responsibility of financing our own FD, then this would be similar to paying our bonds that supposedly pays for Infrastructure in TV. I've paid my bond off, but adding the TVFD financing to my taxes seems like it would be like tacking another uncapped bond to my yearly tax. Right now, we pay for the FD but the whole county shares the cost, not just TV. Or am I mistaken?
If I am right, I can see NO justification for voting "YES"

There are two fire companies that service the county today: VPSD inside the Villages and SCFD outside.

The county could, at any time, choose to merge the VPSD and the SCFD. At that point we would all share in the cost of the combined service. At that point we would all share in the benefits and the problems of the combined service.

Yes, the costs for the VPSD are shared with the entire county. HOWEVER, so are the costs for the SCFD. You and I pay for both. The guy down in Webster pays for both.

Under the IFD, only the Villagers (and those non-Villagers inside the IFD boundaries) would pay for the VPSD.

If the county moves forward with what they have projected then only those county residents outside the IFD boundaries would pay for the SCFD (you and I would not)

You currently pay something like 1.65mils towards the combined VPSD and SCFD. If the IFD passes and the 0.1mil estimate is correct then you will pay approximately 1.1mils towards the VPSD and nothing towards the SCFD. You will still pay for fire protection, it will just be on a separate line and it will likely be less than today.

(IMPORTANT: We don't yet know how the county will fund the SCFD so it is only an assumption that we will not continue to pay for the SCFD through our property taxes)

[Bilyclub]

(IMPORTANT: We don't yet know how the county will fund the SCFD so it is only an assumption that we will not continue to pay for the SCFD through our property taxes)


A Sumter County Commissioner has stated we will not be paying for SCFD if the IFD passes.

[Bill14564]

Don Wiley is in a better position to clarify those statements.
I would also like to pose another simple question:

We know the financing may have unexpected costs, but outside of more local control I'll ask this:

What are the advantages of financing the VSPD separately?????

There are probably no advantage to just the separate financing of the VPSD. In fact, there could be disadvantages. However, the IFD is not just about separate financing.

The separate financing comes about when the IFD is created to separate the IFD from county funding.

What you also get is:
- You *only* finance the VPSD (today you also finance the SCFD)
- The VPSD is protected from being merged with the SCFD (this idea has been raised)

I like the idea that my fire protection costs will go down but what is more important to me is protecting the VPSD against being merged to form one, county-wide service.

[Bill14564]

A Sumter County Commissioner has stated we will not be paying for SCFD if the IFD passes.

And I believe what was stated and truly hope it turns out to be the case. Additionally, the projected 2024 projected budget is consistent with separate funding for the SCFD. I am just being careful with my words until all the dust has settled.

[golfing eagles]

There are probably no advantage to just the separate financing of the VPSD. In fact, there could be disadvantages. However, the IFD is not just about separate financing.

The separate financing comes about when the IFD is created to separate the IFD from county funding.

What you also get is:
- You *only* finance the VPSD (today you also finance the SCFD)
- The VPSD is protected from being merged with the SCFD (this idea has been raised)

I like the idea that my fire protection costs will go down but what is more important to me is protecting the VPSD against being merged to form one, county-wide service.

Thank you, and I agree----I doubt services in The Villages would be enhanced if the two departments are merged into one, much less the budget games that would likely result. The only financial concern is the concept that Don stated in his OP that the MTSU could be as high as 2 mil---that can add up quickly---I like the 0.1 mil number better.:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Bill14564]

Thank you, and I agree----I doubt services in The Villages would be enhanced if the two departments are merged into one, much less the budget games that would likely result. The only financial concern is the concept that Don stated in his OP that the MTSU could be as high as 2 mil---that can add up quickly---I like the 0.1 mil number better.:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

In my calculations, the 0.1mil will result in close to the $18M that the VPSD is receiving from the county this year. If the expenses increase next year the 0.1mil may not be sufficient.

One of the risks of the IFD is there is little that can be done to control budget increases other than the 1mil cap. I will not be happy if my fire protection costs increase that much.

[Advogado]

Whether one intends to vote yes or no, residents should be outraged that the proponents of the new fire district are spending our tax dollars on color brochures and what appears to be a professionally made video that are nothing more than propaganda promoting the fire district. The brochures and video are just decoration on the poke in which the pig of the fire district is being hidden.

[dewilson58]

Whether one intends to vote

:loco::loco:
The cost of education.

Welcome back.
I've missed you.

:jester:

[Altavia]

:loco::loco:
The cost of education.

Welcome back.
I've missed you.

:jester:

Where can I get one!

[dewilson58]

Where can I get one!

No idea.
No idea if they are real.
The poster who mentioned them, makes stuff up all the time.
:posting:

[Kenswing]

Whether one intends to vote yes or no, residents should be outraged that the proponents of the new fire district are spending our tax dollars on color brochures and what appears to be a professionally made video that are nothing more than propaganda promoting the fire district. The brochures and video are just decoration on the poke in which the pig of the fire district is being hidden.

Says the lobbyist for the POA. lol

[Jotom]

Date: Thu, Oct 6, 2022 at 3:07 PM
Subject: Fire Dept. Referendum-Information - Important - Please Read
To:


Villages Separate Fire District Referendum

This is from a friend who follows all of the political issues in both The Villages and the surrounding counties. She has checked out the fire department thoroughly and lists the facts below.

Info regarding the referendum on the November 8th ballot.gg has been following the The Villages’ push for a separate fire district. She met with Chief Cain & Deputy Chief Goodworth on Friday, July 22nd and followed up with an email to Jim Goodworth on August 1st to clarify some of her questions and received answers August 3rd, and then attended a VHA meeting at Miona on September 14th.

Here is what she learned.

The fire department staffers calculated the new fire assessment fee. Based on the results of this analysis, she determined that Instead of paying $124.00, they will be paying $516.00. Your fee will be different from others because all properties ARE NOT being assessed the same fee. The fee will be based on the MARKET VALUE of your house. A home in your neighborhood may be paying more than you or less than you, even though you will be receiving the SAME SERVICES. If your house burns, or another house burns, both will still get the same number of responders and fire trucks no matter how much of a fee has been paid.

There is no cap on the residential fees that will be charged, and they can increase yearly. There is a cap on commercial properties … Guess who that benefits?

There ARE NO NEW SERVICES if the referendum passes

[Sandy and Ed]

First thank you for this detail. We attended two of the public sessions recently given to explain all this and frankly I was still confused after the meetings.

We received a Sample Ballot as is the usual case recently from Bill Keen. Very much appreciated. In reviewing it I noticed that it did not provide a ballot question for the actual “creation” of the new Fire Control/Rescue!! It only asked if the voter approved of the proposed means of funding the district. It was in effect a forced choice question worded so you would obviously vote “yes” to cap the tax. In doing so you would actually be voting for the district itself as well as its funding. Am I missing something here?? Wasn’t this ballot to first get voter approval for the district and then, if voter approved, get approval for the funding? I suppose I am still confused. Anyone out there able to enlighten me?? Is the new district question on the ballot??

[Bill14564]

Date: Thu, Oct 6, 2022 at 3:07 PM
Subject: Fire Dept. Referendum-Information - Important - Please Read
To:


Villages Separate Fire District Referendum

This is from a friend who follows all of the political issues in both The Villages and the surrounding counties. She has checked out the fire department thoroughly and lists the facts below.

...

This misleading claim is not new. You may want to look at posts #96 and #98 above and over on this thread (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/new-fire-district-who-benefits-yup-you-guessed-335929/?highlight=commercial+properties) posts #1, #3, #37, and #40

[charlie1]

I wish someone could just summarize what we know to be true about the new fire district based on the facts. Also maybe a separate list of what people are afraid will happen if it either passes or fails. Both sides seem to have a lot of emotion about what will happen should it pass/fail that are based on few or no facts.

[Byte1]

Simple question:
Does the creation and vote "YES" for a separate fire district cost the individual TV residents more or less tax money?

I believe that this question is more relevant than whether or not we will get better service with a separate fire district.

[Bill14564]

Simple question:
Does the creation and vote "YES" for a separate fire district cost the individual TV residents more or less tax money?

I believe that this question is more relevant than whether or not we will get better service with a separate fire district.

I would disagree. I feel the question of service, and quality/reliability of service, is more important than cost.

The portion of your overall tax bill that is used for fire protection should initially be less with the IFD. My fire protection costs will be less until the variable portion of the IFD funding hits about 0.6 mils.

Your overall tax bill is likely to increase. If this happens, it is not due to the IFD costs. If it happens it will be due to the BoCC not lowering millage to match the removal of the VPSD and SCFD - effectively a tax increase.

[golfing eagles]

I would disagree. I feel the question of service, and quality/reliability of service, is more important than cost.

The portion of your overall tax bill that is used for fire protection should initially be less with the IFD. My fire protection costs will be less until the variable portion of the IFD funding hits about 0.6 mils.

Your overall tax bill is likely to increase. If this happens, it is not due to the IFD costs. If it happens it will be due to the BoCC not lowering millage to match the removal of the VPSD and SCFD - effectively a tax increase.

Exactly. Of course, tax increases will ultimately occur anyway, but this sounds like a convenient excuse.
Now here's a new question: Will the creation of the IFD create another administrative hierarchy duplicating costs?

[mrf0151]

Villages Separate Fire District Referendum

This is from a friend who follows all of the political issues in both The Villages and the surrounding counties. She has checked out the fire department thoroughly and lists the facts below.

Info regarding the referendum on the November 8th ballot.

She has been following the The Villages’ push for a separate fire district. She met with Chief Cain & Deputy Chief Goodworth on Friday, July 22nd and followed up with an email to Jim Goodworth on August 1st to clarify some of her questions and received answers August 3rd, and then attended a VHA meeting at Miona on September 14th.

Here is what she learned.

The fire department staffers calculated the new fire assessment fee. Based on the results of this analysis, she determined that Instead of paying $124.00, they will be paying $516.00. Your fee will be different from others because all properties ARE NOT being assessed the same fee. The fee will be based on the MARKET VALUE of your house. A home in your neighborhood may be paying more than you or less than you, even though you will be receiving the SAME SERVICES. If your house burns, or another house burns, both will still get the same number of responders and fire trucks no matter how much of a fee has been paid.

There is no cap on the residential fees that will be charged, and they can increase yearly. There is a cap on commercial properties … Guess who that benefits?

There ARE NO NEW SERVICES if the referendum passes.

Ambulances have been purchased and are ready to go October 1, 2022 and will be staffed with paramedics from the fire dept.

If the referendum is voted down, the county continues to fund the fire dept. (FUNDING HAS NEVER BEEN DENIED BY THE COUNTY) and we continue to receive all the services we have been getting.

The referendum, if passed, would set up a NEW TAXING DISTRICT controlled by The Villages for the first 3–5 years before we can start electing villagers of our choice. If the referendum is passed, it cannot be reversed or undone. It is here to stay!

Please vote NO on this referendum on November 8th. OUR NEW ambulance service and existing fire department will not change if you vote NO!

Please forward to fellow villagers . . . . . .

[Bill14564]

Villages Separate Fire District Referendum

This is from a friend who follows all of the political issues in both The Villages and the surrounding counties. She has checked out the fire department thoroughly and lists the facts below.

....

Your "friend" seems to really get around.

Take a look at posts #151 and #153 above.

[oldtimes]

Your "friend" seems to really get around.

Take a look at posts #151 and #153 above.

Yes there is definitely an agenda going on here. Someone stands to gain greatly to see this defeated.

[Altavia]

Yes there is definitely an agenda going on here. Someone stands to gain greatly to see this defeated.

Just the normal haters.

Name one service Sumter County does better or at a lower cost to Villages residents?

[golfing eagles]

Just the normal haters.

Name one service Sumter County does better or at a lower cost to Villages residents?

Rent out commercial space?????:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[charlie1]

Villages Separate Fire District Referendum

This is from a friend who follows all of the political issues in both The Villages and the surrounding counties. She has checked out the fire department thoroughly and lists the facts below.

Info regarding the referendum on the November 8th ballot.

She has been following the The Villages’ push for a separate fire district. She met with Chief Cain & Deputy Chief Goodworth on Friday, July 22nd and followed up with an email to Jim Goodworth on August 1st to clarify some of her questions and received answers August 3rd, and then attended a VHA meeting at Miona on September 14th.

Here is what she learned.

The fire department staffers calculated the new fire assessment fee. Based on the results of this analysis, she determined that Instead of paying $124.00, they will be paying $516.00. Your fee will be different from others because all properties ARE NOT being assessed the same fee. The fee will be based on the MARKET VALUE of your house. A home in your neighborhood may be paying more than you or less than you, even though you will be receiving the SAME SERVICES. If your house burns, or another house burns, both will still get the same number of responders and fire trucks no matter how much of a fee has been paid.

There is no cap on the residential fees that will be charged, and they can increase yearly. There is a cap on commercial properties … Guess who that benefits?

There ARE NO NEW SERVICES if the referendum passes.

Ambulances have been purchased and are ready to go October 1, 2022 and will be staffed with paramedics from the fire dept.

If the referendum is voted down, the county continues to fund the fire dept. (FUNDING HAS NEVER BEEN DENIED BY THE COUNTY) and we continue to receive all the services we have been getting.

The referendum, if passed, would set up a NEW TAXING DISTRICT controlled by The Villages for the first 3–5 years before we can start electing villagers of our choice. If the referendum is passed, it cannot be reversed or undone. It is here to stay!

Please vote NO on this referendum on November 8th. OUR NEW ambulance service and existing fire department will not change if you vote NO!

Please forward to fellow villagers . . . . . .

ANYBODY THAT DID ANY RESEARCH WILL KNOW THAT THIS DOES NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE REDUCTION IN THE SUMTER COUNTY TAXES! PLEASE GIVE COMPLETE FACTS BEFORE SPREADING YOUR INCOMPLETE PICTURE.

All I know is that this whole thing started with a vote to merge the current villages fire department into the Sumter County Fire department. We all know how good Sumter was with Ambulance service! Why would we want them to take over the fire department also. Without a separate district, Sumter can do whatever they please with both the ambulance and fire departments. They would not need a referendum! Once the district is finalized, they lose the option to merge the departments.

[golfing eagles]

ANYBODY THAT DID ANY RESEARCH WILL KNOW THAT THIS DOES NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE REDUCTION IN THE SUMTER COUNTY TAXES! PLEASE GIVE COMPLETE FACTS BEFORE SPREADING YOUR INCOMPLETE PICTURE.

All I know is that this whole thing started with a vote to merge the current villages fire department into the Sumter County Fire department. We all know how good Sumter was with Ambulance service! Why would we want them to take over the fire department also. Without a separate district, Sumter can do whatever they please with both the ambulance and fire departments. They would not need a referendum! Once the district is finalized, they lose the option to merge the departments.

I think you pretty much nailed it.

It seems to be that the main advantage of a separate IFD is protection against the VSPD getting merged into Sumter Co.
The disadvantage appears to be that, while this should be relatively revenue neutral, there is no guarantee that the county will reduce its milage rate to reflect the fact that they will no longer be paying for the VSPD

[Byte1]

Ok, so if I am not mistaken, my taxes will go up because now I will be paying for emergency services twice. Because I will be paying via the county taxes and via some TV added tax. My bond is paid so I am not sure I am convinced that paying TV another fee/tax is something I look forward to. Until someone explains it in a manner that convinces me that paying twice is a good idea, I think I'll pass on it. Not sure if I like the answers of "maybe, IF, might, could" or a promise of better service. Better than what? Does anyone have a problem with our current Fire Dept? I am not trying to stir up trouble. Just trying to understand the advantage of paying more for something I hopefully will never need to use. I also attempt to get the best price for insurance every chance I get. Living on a limited income, I try to be prudent with my finances when possible.

[oldtimes]

Ok, so if I am not mistaken, my taxes will go up because now I will be paying for emergency services twice. Because I will be paying via the county taxes and via some TV added tax. My bond is paid so I am not sure I am convinced that paying TV another fee/tax is something I look forward to. Until someone explains it in a manner that convinces me that paying twice is a good idea, I think I'll pass on it. Not sure if I like the answers of "maybe, IF, might, could" or a promise of better service. Better than what? Does anyone have a problem with our current Fire Dept? I am not trying to stir up trouble. Just trying to understand the advantage of paying more for something I hopefully will never need to use. I also attempt to get the best price for insurance every chance I get. Living on a limited income, I try to be prudent with my finances when possible.

Where do you get a guarantee that your taxes won't go up if it does not get created? How do you know Sumter County won't raise your taxes? Also the chances that you will eventually need them is very high, they don't just put out fires.

[Bill14564]

Ok, so if I am not mistaken, my taxes will go up because now I will be paying for emergency services twice. Because I will be paying via the county taxes and via some TV added tax. My bond is paid so I am not sure I am convinced that paying TV another fee/tax is something I look forward to. Until someone explains it in a manner that convinces me that paying twice is a good idea, I think I'll pass on it. Not sure if I like the answers of "maybe, IF, might, could" or a promise of better service. Better than what? Does anyone have a problem with our current Fire Dept? I am not trying to stir up trouble. Just trying to understand the advantage of paying more for something I hopefully will never need to use. I also attempt to get the best price for insurance every chance I get. Living on a limited income, I try to be prudent with my finances when possible.

You are mistaken.

You will not pay twice for the IFD/VPSD. If the IFD passes, Sumter County will no longer fund the VPSD, they will no longer take ad-valorem taxes to send to the VPSD.

[Bilyclub]

You are mistaken.

You will not pay twice for the IFD/VPSD. If the IFD passes, Sumter County will no longer fund the VPSD, they will no longer take ad-valorem taxes to send to the VPSD.

But there is no guarantee that we will not be paying for the SCFD. There may be a verbal commitment by one Sumter County Board Member, but nothing in writing about funding SCFD.

[charlie1]

I think you pretty much nailed it.

It seems to be that the main advantage of a separate IFD is protection against the VSPD getting merged into Sumter Co.
The disadvantage appears to be that, while this should be relatively revenue neutral, there is no guarantee that the county will reduce its milage rate to reflect the fact that they will no longer be paying for the VSPD

The county will have to reduce funds for Fire Protection in their budget unless they have HUGE expansion plans for what would be left of the county fire department. The only way they could keep the taxes the same would be to add those funds to other budget categories which then would result in keeping our county taxes the same. However, I am sure there will be residents and/or the press watching the budget closely to make sure this would get exposed.

[Bilyclub]

The county will have to reduce funds for Fire Protection in their budget unless they have HUGE expansion plans for what would be left of the county fire department. The only way they could keep the taxes the same would be to add those funds to other budget categories which then would result in keeping our county taxes the same. However, I am sure there will be residents and/or the press watching the budget closely to make sure this would get exposed.

You must have missed the last big tax hike, the subsequent county commissioner election, and the whole impact fee mess. The residents wanted the higher impact fees and the developer's minion did an end a round. There is no press here, except for the Daily Sun.

[Stu from NYC]

You must have missed the last big tax hike, the subsequent county commissioner election, and the whole impact fee mess. The residents wanted the higher impact fees and the developer's minion did an end a round. There is no press here, except for the Daily Sun.

As a wise man once said what the Developer wants the developer gets

[Byte1]

You are mistaken.

You will not pay twice for the IFD/VPSD. If the IFD passes, Sumter County will no longer fund the VPSD, they will no longer take ad-valorem taxes to send to the VPSD.

Ok, great. Then the rest of the county, non-TV residences will pay the bulk of the CO's IFD/VPSD? How will that go over? Something doesn't quite seem right here. That means, even if they don't make it up in some other manner, a large chunk of revenue coming from TV to the county will cease and the remainder of the Sumter Co. residents will have to make up the deficit. Or, am I missing something?

[golfing eagles]

Ok, great. Then the rest of the county, non-TV residences will pay the bulk of the CO's IFD/VPSD? How will that go over? Something doesn't quite seem right here. That means, even if they don't make it up in some other manner, a large chunk of revenue coming from TV will to the county will cease and the remainder of the Sumter Co. residents will have to make up the deficit. Or, am I missing something?

Don Wiley is the expert on this, I am not. However, I interpreted his statements to mean that residents of TV in Sumter County will pay for the VSPD and not the rest of the county, and the residents of the non-Villages part of Sumter County will pay for their part. His numbers showed the costs to be about the same, about 25% coming from the per parcel assessment and the rest out of the general budget. When split off, all of the 18-19 million costs for the VSPD will come from the "fee", so that part will go up---someone calculated from $124 to $516. That increase should be offset by a reduction in county tax, since they will no longer be paying that 18-19 million. Of course, you will still pay general county taxes, and therefore your total tax bill will be dependent upon the county doing the "right thing"

[Stu from NYC]

Don Wiley is the expert on this, I am not. However, I interpreted his statements to mean that residents of TV in Sumter County will pay for the VSPD and not the rest of the county, and the residents of the non-Villages part of Sumter County will pay for their part. His numbers showed the costs to be about the same, about 25% coming from the per parcel assessment and the rest out of the general budget. When split off, all of the 18-19 million costs for the VSPD will come from the "fee", so that part will go up---someone calculated from $124 to $516. That increase should be offset by a reduction in county tax, since they will no longer be paying that 18-19 million. Of course, you will still pay general county taxes, and therefore your total tax bill will be dependent upon the county doing the "right thing"

Can we trust the county to do the right thing? Only good thing is I believe most of the commissioners for Sumter are from TV.

[Bogie Shooter]

Can we trust the county to do the right thing? Only good thing is I believe most of the commissioners for Sumter are from TV.

You know what happened to the last commissioners that did NOT do the right thing………

[Babubhat]

If it’s too complicated it can’t be good

[Bilyclub]

You know what happened to the last commissioners that did NOT do the right thing………

As a sidenote, former Commissioner Miller has endorsed the TVIFD on FB.

[Plinker]

If it’s too complicated it can’t be good

The fact that this referendum has generated such a voluminous amount of posts which contain both accurate and inaccurate information, strongly suggests to me that it is not ready for prime time. If the pros and cons and costs cannot be clearly articulated, I will have a hard time supporting it.
The following questions deserve a precise answer:
Let’s assume a home has a 2022 (current) TRIM notice of “X” dollars which includes all ad-valorem and valorem taxes.
1. Assuming the lowest variable fire fee(s) proposed, what would my new “X” be?
2. Assuming the variable fire fee(s) are at maximum, what would my new”X” be?
3. What specific advantages are there to vote “yes”?
4. What are the specific disadvantages to vote “no”?
If these questions cannot be clearly answered without ambiguity due to so much variability in the calculations then the proposal needs more work.

[Bill14564]

The fact that this referendum has generated such a voluminous amount of posts which contain both accurate and inaccurate information, strongly suggests to me that it is not ready for prime time. If the pros and cons and costs cannot be clearly articulated, I will have a hard time supporting it.
The following questions deserve a precise answer:
Let’s assume a home has a 2022 (current) TRIM notice of “X” dollars which includes all ad-valorem and valorem taxes.
1. Assuming the lowest variable fire fee(s) proposed, what would my new “X” be?
2. Assuming the variable fire fee(s) are at maximum, what would my new”X” be?
3. What specific advantages are there to vote “yes”?
4. What are the specific disadvantages to vote “no”?
If these questions cannot be clearly answered without ambiguity due to so much variability in the calculations then the proposal needs more work.

1. and 2. cannot be determined because they are dependent on changes to the property tax rate that will be made by the BoCC. I can tell you exactly how much you would pay to the IFD/VPSD but I can't tell you how much less you will pay to Sumter County.

If you used the same standards for purchasing a home then you would still be living with your parents. A realtor can tell you how much you would pay in property taxes today but there is no way to predict what the assessed value or property tax rate will be next year. There is ALWAYS ambiguity in these numbers until the final quarter of the year.

For 3. there is a lot of information on the Public Safety page under districtgov.org. Much of it boils down to preventing the possibility of bad things happening if the IFD is not created.

For 4. there are no specific disadvantages. There are *possible* disadvantages if the IFD board does this bad thing or the BoCC does that bad thing but if you assume noble intent then these bad things won't happen.

[Mrs.Guy]

You know what happened to the last commissioners that did NOT do the right thing………

:shrug: Are we talking about following the state's "Sunshine Law"? Or maybe the new probe by the state's Commission on Ethics that has found probable cause that the ex-commissioner awaiting trial may have violated Florida's gift law? Amazingly I didn't see that mentioned after yestersday's front page story in the paper. Don't think the online rag mentioned it either. :confused:

[Bill14564]

:shrug: Are we talking about following the state's "Sunshine Law"? Or maybe the new probe by the state's Commission on Ethics that has found probable cause that the ex-commissioner awaiting trial may have violated Florida's gift law? Amazingly I didn't see that mentioned after yestersday's front page story in the paper. Don't think the online rag mentioned it either. :confused:

Possibly not mentioned because it doesn't fit the topic and might be considered political.

[Mrs.Guy]

Possibly not mentioned because it doesn't fit the topic and might be considered political.

:) I agree but wanted a clarification from Bogie on his post #175 in this thread. Also, I didn't mean it to be political in any way.

On a different note - In your research on this have you seen anything on the projected billing for TVPS Ambulance Service? I would think it could be substantial and would considerably offset the cost. :undecided:

[Bill14564]

...

On a different note - In your research on this have you seen anything on the projected billing for TVPS Ambulance Service? I would think it could be substantial and would considerably offset the cost. :undecided:

It was mentioned in the recent presentation at the POA (https://youtu.be/0BzTqq6TuEQ?list=PLf3fpUgAY-xQlyfVFaFeq9IZClr6AGi79). It was one of the questions near the end of the presentation. I don't recall the numbers that were given.

[VApeople]

I want to be treated like other people living in Sumter County, so I am voting NO on the ballot initiative for The Villages to establish our own fire and ambulance services.

[Bogie Shooter]

:shrug: Are we talking about following the state's "Sunshine Law"? Or maybe the new probe by the state's Commission on Ethics that has found probable cause that the ex-commissioner awaiting trial may have violated Florida's gift law? Amazingly I didn't see that mentioned after yestersday's front page story in the paper. Don't think the online rag mentioned it either. :confused:

Sorry, I dare not tread in any explanation……………

[Bilyclub]

1. and 2. cannot be determined because they are dependent on changes to the property tax rate that will be made by the BoCC. I can tell you exactly how much you would pay to the IFD/VPSD but I can't tell you how much less you will pay to Sumter County.

If you used the same standards for purchasing a home then you would still be living with your parents. A realtor can tell you how much you would pay in property taxes today but there is no way to predict what the assessed value or property tax rate will be next year. There is ALWAYS ambiguity in these numbers until the final quarter of the year.

For 3. there is a lot of information on the Public Safety page under districtgov.org. Much of it boils down to preventing the possibility of bad things happening if the IFD is not created.

For 4. there are no specific disadvantages. There are *possible* disadvantages if the IFD board does this bad thing or the BoCC does that bad thing but if you assume noble intent then these bad things won't happen.

In essence you are saying this whole IFD is based on "what ifs" for the pros and cons.
This was not well thought out with a lot of vagueness built in.

[Babubhat]

Walking into a Lobster Pot which can’t be escaped.

[Happydaz]

Yes there is definitely an agenda going on here. Someone stands to gain greatly to see this defeated.
Yes someone does stand to gain, the homeowner! No way am I going to vote for a $500 increase in my taxes and the creation of a commission that is not answerable to The Villagers. The governor appoints these people they are not elected. Why would I approve something that will add $500 to my tax bill when I don’t know yet how much Sumter County will reduce my taxes by? For example, let’s say my designer home costs me $500 more to have a separate Villages Fire Department (The ambulance service has already been folded into our local fire stations so that is not an issue in this election.) Later Sumter County looks at the next tax season and decides they may need new schools with all the new homes and apartments being built so they only reduce my taxes by $200. So this new Villages Fire Department ends up costing me $300 extra. Who is going to gamble on setting this up without knowing how this will all play out. No businessman I know would enter into a deal like this without knowing all the costs involved. Why should I trust another government commission to administer my fire department? I need more facts and exact dollar amounts before I would favor a separate fire department.

[Babubhat]

Let them come back next year with concrete numbers.

[Bill14564]

In essence you are saying this whole IFD is based on "what ifs" for the pros and cons.
This was not well thought out with a lot of vagueness built in.

In fact what I am saying is the information provided is as complete as legally possible and is no less complete as what you have if the IFD is not created.

[golfing eagles]

Yes someone does stand to gain, the homeowner! No way am I going to vote for a $500 increase in my taxes and the creation of a commission that is not answerable to The Villagers. The governor appoints these people they are not elected. Why would I approve something that will add $500 to my tax bill when I don’t know yet how much Sumter County will reduce my taxes by? For example, let’s say my designer home costs me $500 more to have a separate Villages Fire Department (The ambulance service has already been folded into our local fire stations so that is not an issue in this election.) Later Sumter County looks at the next tax season and decides they may need new schools with all the new homes and apartments being built so they only reduce my taxes by $200. So this new Villages Fire Department ends up costing me $300 extra. Who is going to gamble on setting this up without knowing how this will all play out. No businessman I know would enter into a deal like this without knowing all the costs involved. Why should I trust another government commission to administer my fire department? I need more facts and exact dollar amounts before I would favor a separate fire department.

You do realize that the way current financing works, you would get a $300 tax increase if Sumter County decided it needed new schools anyway. Regardless of an IFD or not, you can't control Sumter county's taxation and spending.

[Mrs.Guy]

Yes someone does stand to gain, the homeowner! No way am I going to vote for a $500 increase in my taxes and the creation of a commission that is not answerable to The Villagers. The governor appoints these people they are not elected. Why would I approve something that will add $500 to my tax bill when I don’t know yet how much Sumter County will reduce my taxes by? For example, let’s say my designer home costs me $500 more to have a separate Villages Fire Department (The ambulance service has already been folded into our local fire stations so that is not an issue in this election.) Later Sumter County looks at the next tax season and decides they may need new schools with all the new homes and apartments being built so they only reduce my taxes by $200. So this new Villages Fire Department ends up costing me $300 extra. Who is going to gamble on setting this up without knowing how this will all play out. No businessman I know would enter into a deal like this without knowing all the costs involved. Why should I trust another government commission to administer my fire department? I need more facts and exact dollar amounts before I would favor a separate fire department.

Wow.......please do a little research on things work. :ohdear:

[Plinker]

Let them come back next year with concrete numbers.

Exactly my point. Wait until next year and provide a link so each property owner can get a precise dollar amount they would pay if the proposal was enacted. Also, more clearly offer pros and cons of a yes/no vote. Then, place the proposal on the ballot. Sure, the numbers will change year to year, but at least we will have a baseline to draw conclusions.
Right now, it appears that no concrete numbers are possible until AFTER the referendum passes. If this is the case then it appears the cart is ahead of the horse.

[Bill14564]

Exactly my point. Wait until next year and provide a link so each property owner can get a precise dollar amount they would pay if the proposal was enacted. Also, more clearly offer pros and cons of a yes/no vote. Then, place the proposal on the ballot. Sure, the numbers will change year to year, but at least we will have a baseline to draw conclusions.
Right now, it appears that no concrete numbers are possible until AFTER the referendum passes. If this is the case then it appears the cart is ahead of the horse.

Concrete numbers for your current assessment are available today and have been for a while now. How can you not know that after all the posts, articles, and announcements?

[Plinker]

Concrete numbers for your current assessment are available today and have been for a while now. How can you not know that after all the posts, articles, and announcements?

I am fully aware of the current assessments. How that would change next year should this referendum pass is anybodies guess. That is what many of the posts are concerned about. I’m agreeing with those stated concerns.

[Bill14564]

I am fully aware of the current assessments. How that would change next year should this referendum pass is anybodies guess. That is what many of the posts are concerned about. I’m agreeing with those stated concerns.

How will it change if the referendum does not pass? You don’t know that either yet that is apparently not a concern?

[Bill14564]

Exactly my point. Wait until next year and provide a link so each property owner can get a precise dollar amount they would pay if the proposal was enacted. Also, more clearly offer pros and cons of a yes/no vote. Then, place the proposal on the ballot. Sure, the numbers will change year to year, but at least we will have a baseline to draw conclusions.
Right now, it appears that no concrete numbers are possible until AFTER the referendum passes. If this is the case then it appears the cart is ahead of the horse.

Concrete numbers for your current assessment are available today and have been for a while now. How can you not know that after all the posts, articles, and announcements?

I am fully aware of the current assessments. How that would change next year should this referendum pass is anybodies guess. That is what many of the posts are concerned about. I’m agreeing with those stated concerns.

How will it change if the referendum does not pass? You don’t know that either yet that is apparently not a concern?

What do we know & what don't we know:

Assessments:
- Change every year
- Went up significantly this year
- Don't know what will happen next year
- With the IFD: Don't know
- Without the IFD: Don't know

Property tax rate:
- 6.15mils last year
- 5.59 mils this year
- ??? next year
- With the IFD: Will be decreased some amount due to VPSD being removed from budget
- Without the IFD: Don't know

VPSD budget request:
- $16M last year
- $17.6M this year
- ??? next year
- With the IFD: Don't know but will likely be approved
- Without the IFD: Don't know but will likely be approved

Fire protection cost per Village home:
- $124 + 1.33 mil last year
- $124 + 1.65 mil this year
- ??? next year
- With the IFD: $124 + 0.75*Improved value + 0.1mil (estimated)
--- Works out to be about $124 + 1.1 mil or about 0.5mil LESS than this year
--- For an exact dollar amount use the VPSD tax estimator (https://dtapf.com/simplified/villages/)
- Without the IFD: $124 + xxx mil
--- where xxx was 1.33 last year, 1.65 this year, and likely to be more next year

So what concrete information do you have about next year if the IFD does not pass? What will my assessment be? What will the VPSD budget be? What will my fire protection cost be? What precise numbers can you provide for next year if the IFD fails? If concrete numbers aren't available for the case where the IFD fails then by your logic it is time to pass the IFD.

[oldtimes]

What do we know & what don't we know:

Assessments:
- Change every year
- Went up significantly this year
- Don't know what will happen next year
- With the IFD: Don't know
- Without the IFD: Don't know

Property tax rate:
- 6.15mils last year
- 5.59 mils this year
- ??? next year
- With the IFD: Will be decreased some amount due to VPSD being removed from budget
- Without the IFD: Don't know

VPSD budget request:
- $16M last year
- $17.6M this year
- ??? next year
- With the IFD: Don't know but will likely be approved
- Without the IFD: Don't know but will likely be approved

Fire protection cost per Village home:
- $124 + 1.33 mil last year
- $124 + 1.65 mil this year
- ??? next year
- With the IFD: $124 + 0.75*Improved value + 0.1mil (estimated)
--- Works out to be about $124 + 1.1 mil or about 0.5mil LESS than this year
--- For an exact dollar amount use the VPSD tax estimator (https://dtapf.com/simplified/villages/)
- Without the IFD: $124 + xxx mil
--- where xxx was 1.33 last year, 1.65 this year, and likely to be more next year

So what concrete information do you have about next year if the IFD does not pass? What will my assessment be? What will the VPSD budget be? What will my fire protection cost be? What precise numbers can you provide for next year if the IFD fails? If concrete numbers aren't available for the case where the IFD fails then by your logic it is time to pass the IFD.

You can explain it a hundred times but you cannot make them understand it. They believe the propaganda and have already made up their minds that they don't want it.

[Byte1]

I don't know about others on here, but I am not convinced and therefore plan to vote to remain "status quo" because right now we kind of know what to expect. No one can give us definitive answers (and I understand their inability) to the cost to us if we change. Until such a time as we get a better understanding, I will have to vote "NO"

[oldtimes]

I don't know about others on here, but I am not convinced and therefore plan to vote to remain "status quo" because right now we kind of know what to expect. No one can give us definitive answers (and I understand their inability) to the cost to us if we change. Until such a time as we get a better understanding, I will have to vote "NO"

There is no "status quo" even if it gets defeated there is no guarantee the County won't raise the taxes. Where taxes are concerned there is no such thing as concrete numbers, they are always made out of sand.

[Altavia]

I don't know about others on here, but I am not convinced and therefore plan to vote to remain "status quo" because right now we kind of know what to expect. No one can give us definitive answers (and I understand their inability) to the cost to us if we change. Until such a time as we get a better understanding, I will have to vote "NO"

For me as Bill14564 noted, the financial unknowns are no different from either side.

I have more confidence in The Villages establishing a quality, cost effective fire service for The Villages than Sumter County.

[Byte1]

There is no "status quo" even if it gets defeated there is no guarantee the County won't raise the taxes. Where taxes are concerned there is no such thing as concrete numbers, they are always made out of sand.

So, we are supposed to take someone else's assurance that having an independent FD will be better, based on faith? Maybe it will be better, and I am not suggesting otherwise. The point most folks are concerned about is the possibility of an unneeded additional cost. For some on here, money is not a concern but some of us are on a fixed income and have a tendency to examine things thoroughly. Interesting that this issue is being discussed this close to the election. I'll be pulling the proverbial "lever" next week for early voting and I am not going to make the choice to change with my lack of understanding of what the results might be. You can say, that's on me.

[Kenswing]

Most fire departments throughout the state use independent fire districts. We’re actually an outlier still being under the county. I figure if it works for the other 53 ifd’s it’ll work just fine for us too.

[Plinker]

What do we know & what don't we know:

Assessments:
- Change every year
- Went up significantly this year
- Don't know what will happen next year
- With the IFD: Don't know
- Without the IFD: Don't know

Property tax rate:
- 6.15mils last year
- 5.59 mils this year
- ??? next year
- With the IFD: Will be decreased some amount due to VPSD being removed from budget
- Without the IFD: Don't know

VPSD budget request:
- $16M last year
- $17.6M this year
- ??? next year
- With the IFD: Don't know but will likely be approved
- Without the IFD: Don't know but will likely be approved

Fire protection cost per Village home:
- $124 + 1.33 mil last year
- $124 + 1.65 mil this year
- ??? next year
- With the IFD: $124 + 0.75*Improved value + 0.1mil (estimated)
--- Works out to be about $124 + 1.1 mil or about 0.5mil LESS than this year
--- For an exact dollar amount use the VPSD tax estimator (https://dtapf.com/simplified/villages/)
- Without the IFD: $124 + xxx mil
--- where xxx was 1.33 last year, 1.65 this year, and likely to be more next year

So what concrete information do you have about next year if the IFD does not pass? What will my assessment be? What will the VPSD budget be? What will my fire protection cost be? What precise numbers can you provide for next year if the IFD fails? If concrete numbers aren't available for the case where the IFD fails then by your logic it is time to pass the IFD.

The variable of concern to me in your estimate is the 0.1 mil rate. Could this not also be increased to a 1.0 mil rate? That could represent a very substantial amount of money to many Villagers. Did I read the legislation incorrectly? Can
the rate be from 0.1 to 1.0? Potentially a big difference.

[dewilson58]

Saw a road sign: Vote No. No new fire district. No new taxes.

:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:


and think, some people believe the message.

[golfing eagles]

So, we are supposed to take someone else's assurance that having an independent FD will be better, based on faith? Maybe it will be better, and I am not suggesting otherwise. The point most folks are concerned about is the possibility of an unneeded additional cost. For some on here, money is not a concern but some of us are on a fixed income and have a tendency to examine things thoroughly. Interesting that this issue is being discussed this close to the election. I'll be pulling the proverbial "lever" next week for early voting and I am not going to make the choice to change with my lack of understanding of what the results might be. You can say, that's on me.

Like you, I was initially against this proposal. My concerns were that it could be used as an excuse for the county raise taxes through a backdoor method, and that I might very well end up paying substantially more than a person on the next block for the same service because of the milage rate tied to a home's assessment.

However, looking deeper and thinking about it, the services cost what they cost, and therefore the proposal should be cost neutral. Likewise, unless the county plays games, it should be revenue neutral as well. And the county can play games with the tax rate whenever they want anyway. As far as paying more than a neighbor for the same service, we already are---3/4 of the fire services cost comes out of the general revenue which is of course based on home assessment.

Given all that, I've reconsidered and will support the new IFD---since I'm pretty sure that a merger of the two fire depts would result in a decrease in service to TV, something worth avoiding.

[twoplanekid]

Most fire departments throughout the state use independent fire districts. We’re actually an outlier still being under the county. I figure if it works for the other 53 ifd’s it’ll work just fine for us too.

I can't locate any data to backup this claim. Do you have a source for this data?

[golfing eagles]

I can't locate any data to backup this claim. Do you have a source for this data?

I also have a problem believing there are only 53 fire departments in the state of Florida. I believe there are 67 counties

Actually, 5 seconds on google shows there are 1,956 fire depts in Florida

Fire Departments - Florida (Fire Stations & Marshals) (https://www.countyoffice.org/fl-fire-departments)

[Kenswing]

I can't locate any data to backup this claim. Do you have a source for this data?

Last paragraph.

Independent fire district bill passes | News | The Villages Daily Sun | thevillagesdailysun.com (https://www.thevillagesdailysun.com/news/villages/independent-fire-district-bill-passes/article_aa6deca6-a0fc-11ec-b305-b76033df4a0f.amp.html)

[Kenswing]

I also have a problem believing there are only 53 fire departments in the state of Florida. I believe there are 67 counties

Actually, 5 seconds on google shows there are 1,956 fire depts in Florida

Fire Departments - Florida (Fire Stations & Marshals) (https://www.countyoffice.org/fl-fire-departments)

Independent fire districts. Not departments.

[twoplanekid]

Most fire departments throughout the state use independent fire districts. We’re actually an outlier still being under the county. I figure if it works for the other 53 ifd’s it’ll work just fine for us too.

I understand that there may be 53 independent fire districts. However, most fire departments are independent fire districts.?? This is what I am questioning and would like to see the data.

[oldtimes]

Saw a road sign: Vote No. No new fire district. No new taxes.

:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:


and think, some people believe the message.

Unfortunately that is true. No facts just someone's opinion.

[oldtimes]

For me as Bill14564 noted, the financial unknowns are no different from either side.

I have more confidence in The Villages establishing a quality, cost effective fire service for The Villages than Sumter County.

Exactly. There are many retired firefighters in The Villages who will be interested in being on the commission to provide good service at a reasonable cost.

[Bill14564]

The variable of concern to me in your estimate is the 0.1 mil rate. Could this not also be increased to a 1.0 mil rate? That could represent a very substantial amount of money to many Villagers. Did I read the legislation incorrectly? Can
the rate be from 0.1 to 1.0? Potentially a big difference.

Yes, the millage could rise to the 1mil cap. But, why would that happen?

It would happen because the VPSD presented a budget that required more funds. But since we have also been told that the County has never turned down a VOSD request, the same amount would be need and provided if the IFD did not exist. Voting against the IFD is no protection from increasing budgets.

You are concerned about a possible increase up to a 1 mil cap? Then you should be really concerned that in 2019 the BoCC increased the tax rate by 1.7 mils! There was no cap on *that* increase.

So, take your chances on the possibility that 1mil cap could be reached or take your chances with the BoCC and a history of raising taxes by 1.7 mils.

[Bilyclub]

So, take your chances on the possibility that 1mil cap could be reached or take your chances with the BoCC and a history of raising taxes by 1.7 mils.

So, voting yes would be taking the big chance that the BoCC would not do the right thing and lower property taxes for those paying for the TVIFD. There should also be a Sumter County IFD so that the funding source is clear.

[Babubhat]

Nothing in this thread will change anyones mind

[oldtimes]

Nothing in this thread will change anyones mind

Some will understand better than others. I know at least one who has seen the light.

[Byte1]

Like you, I was initially against this proposal. My concerns were that it could be used as an excuse for the county raise taxes through a backdoor method, and that I might very well end up paying substantially more than a person on the next block for the same service because of the milage rate tied to a home's assessment.

However, looking deeper and thinking about it, the services cost what they cost, and therefore the proposal should be cost neutral. Likewise, unless the county plays games, it should be revenue neutral as well. And the county can play games with the tax rate whenever they want anyway. As far as paying more than a neighbor for the same service, we already are---3/4 of the fire services cost comes out of the general revenue which is of course based on home assessment.

Given all that, I've reconsidered and will support the new IFD---since I'm pretty sure that a merger of the two fire depts would result in a decrease in service to TV, something worth avoiding.

Thank you....:thumbup:

[Bilyclub]

After much reading I can safely say the following:

The Sumter Co FD and The Villages FD have similar, total budgets.
The Independent Villages Fire District would include 80% of the population and property values of Sumter Co.
The Sumter Co FD would serve 20% of the population and property values in Sumter Co.
Each FD will get their funding from their service area.
All the above statements were from Don Wiley.


With similar budgets and the the passing of the TVIFD, will those 20 % in Sumter Co be in for some sticker shock when they get the bill for their FD? Why is the SCFD budget so big with less properties to serve?
Have TV properties been subsidizing the SCFD?

I think whichever way the IFD vote goes, the residents of TV will be paying something for the SCFD.

[Mrs.Guy]

After much reading I can safely say the following:

The Sumter Co FD and The Villages FD have similar, total budgets.
The Independent Villages Fire District would include 80% of the population and property values of Sumter Co.
The Sumter Co FD would serve 20% of the population and property values in Sumter Co.
Each FD will get their funding from their service area.
All the above statements were from Don Wiley.


With similar budgets and the the passing of the TVIFD, will those 20 % in Sumter Co be in for some sticker shock when they get the bill for their FD? Why is the SCFD budget so big with less properties to serve?
Have TV properties been subsidizing the SCFD?

I think whichever way the IFD vote goes, the residents of TV will be paying something for the SCFD.

:confused: Would it be safe to say that you will be going to the VHA informational meeting tonight to get the answers to your questions? The people that run YOUR government and YOUR fire dept. will be there to answer any questions. On the front page of todays paper. :read:

[kingofbeer]

Status quo sounds good to me. I don't want my property taxes to go up.

[Bilyclub]

:confused: Would it be safe to say that you will be going to the VHA informational meeting tonight to get the answers to your questions? The people that run YOUR government and YOUR fire dept. will be there to answer any questions. On the front page of todays paper. :read:

They will not answer those questions because they are not the Sumter County Board who is responsible for the Sumter County Fire Department. The SCBOC has chosen to remain silent on the whole issue except for Don Wiley.

[Babubhat]

Some will understand better than others. I know at least one who has seen the light.

One. That should decide the issue. I like my Money more than speculative promises

[Mrs.Guy]

Status quo sounds good to me. I don't want my property taxes to go up.

If the Sumter Co Board had their way and combined both dept. into one and you were laying on the ground holding your chest waiting for AMR..... well you might think just a little differently. With your last breath you might be asking where do I send the money? :undecided: And you do know the two dept. have different ISO ratings..... Take a wild guess who has the better one and pays less in insurance. Last I looked the VPSD had an ISO rating of 2 and only 2% of all Fire Dept. in the U.S. can say that. They are professionals at their job and they would like our support.....that's all I needed to know to VOTE YES. We want them there when we need them and should be there for them also. :ho:

[golfing eagles]

Status quo sounds good to me. I don't want my property taxes to go up.

If you vote yes, your property taxes may go up
If you vote no, your property taxes may go up

They shouldn't, but that will essentially be up to Sumter County, not The Villages

But if you vote no, you may have your emergency services merged with Sumter County, which would probably diminish service, AND your property taxes may go up

[Mrs.Guy]

If you vote yes, your property taxes may go up
If you vote no, your property taxes may go up

They shouldn't, but that will essentially be up to Sumter County, not The Villages

But if you vote no, you may have your emergency services merged with Sumter County, which would probably diminish service, AND your property taxes may go up

:) You can explain it to people..... you can't understand it for them.

[Mrs.Guy]

If you vote yes, your property taxes may go up
If you vote no, your property taxes may go up

They shouldn't, but that will essentially be up to Sumter County, not The Villages

But if you vote no, you may have your emergency services merged with Sumter County, which would probably diminish service, AND your property taxes may go up

:undecided: I think there may even be another possibility, if you vote yes, your property taxes may go down. Has anyone asked AMR what they made in the Villages section of Sumter Co.? I would think the collection success would be pretty good here. :shrug:

[Babubhat]

If the Sumter Co Board had their way and combined both dept. into one and you were laying on the ground holding your chest waiting for AMR..... well you might think just a little differently. With your last breath you might be asking where do I send the money? :undecided: And you do know the two dept. have different ISO ratings..... Take a wild guess who has the better one and pays less in insurance. Last I looked the VPSD had an ISO rating of 2 and only 2% of all Fire Dept. in the U.S. can say that. They are professionals at their job and they would like our support.....that's all I needed to know to VOTE YES. We want them there when we need them and should be there for them also. :ho:

If. If . If. Nothing concrete. That says it all. Not sufficiently well thought out. People need to stop obsessing over a potential minute. Emotional arguments are speculative

I don’t believe in if.

[oldtimes]

:) You can explain it to people..... you can't understand it for them.:bigbow:

[Mrs.Guy]

If. If . If. Nothing concrete. That says it all. Not sufficiently well thought out.

I don’t believe in if.

:oops: See post #226

[golfing eagles]

:) You can explain it to people..... you can't understand it for them.

The sad part is that it’s not quantum physics

[Bilyclub]

The sad part is that it’s not quantum physics


Only Sumter County politics. Much more difficult, and costlier.

[Dotneko]

So, a Yes vote increases my taxes by a few hundred dollars with no appreciable change in services.
What is the Villages rec centers and other various buildings stake in this? Are their taxes going down?
Whats in it for them?

[pokeefe45@aol.com]

Lot of information-Appreciate the explanation of why it's not possible to determine cost impact right now. I get it. I've got to believe that there's more than enough financial transparency for anyone to see how fees will be calculated, once the data is in. My glass is half full, and I am believing in our public servants. Always there will be 'bad' apples-but mostly public servants are dedicated and want to do 'good'. As for me, the more local my decisions can become, the more control I have of my own destiny (via my vote).
Haven't quite fully grasped the actual phrasing of the ballot question-But am led to believe a 'yes' vote is a vote to establish the independent fire district in the Villages, am I correct in that belief? Yes to change-No to keep status quo?
Thanx to Mr. Wiley for taking the time and making the effort to elucidate.

[Mrs.Guy]

So, a Yes vote increases my taxes by a few hundred dollars with no appreciable change in services.
What is the Villages rec centers and other various buildings stake in this? Are their taxes going down?
Whats in it for them?


:oops: You ask "Whats in it for them?" You make it sound like they are the enemy. They aren't and neither is the Developer. Educate yourself on this place and Community Development Districts and how they work if you live here..... THEM IS US! The District owned buildings and rec. centers are government owned buildings and DON"T PAY TAXES. The Developer owned properties do.

Also you state "a Yes vote increases my taxes by a few hundred dollars with no appreciable change in services." Well that's NOT TRUE.
I don't care how you cast your uninformed vote..... I do care about FACTS and people that give out misinformation. Also take the time to read ALL OF THE THREAD..... some of us actually do that!!!

[Dotneko]

The developer is not the enemy but neither are they necessarily our friends. They do nothing that doesn't first and foremost benefit them. If it benefits us along the way, then good for us.
I'm voting no. Nothing said here gives me confidence this is in my best interest.

[Two Bills]

I have no dog in this issue at all, but have followed the debate on this thread, and were I a voter, I too would vote yes.
What would be the deciding factor after the financial facts, and in some areas speculative financial facts is the wordage.
I love the word Independent.
Never been too keen on the words, Local Government Control.
Just an outsiders opinion.

[ScottFenstermaker]

If. If . If. Nothing concrete. That says it all. Not sufficiently well thought out. People need to stop obsessing over a potential minute. Emotional arguments are speculative

I don’t believe in if.

You are exactly right. We are being sold a pig in a poke by the proponents of the new fire district. The present system works, and there is no need to dismantle it and set up a Fire District with a whole lot of unknowns. Voters should keep in mind the adage: If it ain't broke, don't fix it. The fact that the enabling legislation was quickly put together and pushed through the legislature by the notorious million-dollar-Developer-employee Representative Brett Hage should raise red flags about what is going on.

[Byte1]

A couple of thoughts:
Are the present firefighters paid by the county? If so, then what happens to their retirement funding, if any? Do they still get county benefits if they are "Independent?"
Not to get political and trying to merely make a point, I received an email from a "D" organization telling me to vote "NO." That tends to make it easier for some to vote "YES." I really wish they would not make it a politically partisan issue.
I have read some very good answers on here, both "yay" and "nay." I am going to leave myself open to plausible views before I vote this week or next. So far, both views seem to make sense.
I will continue to look forward to sensible suggestions, or I will just leave it blank. I prefer not to leave it blank but rather than make the wrong decision and regret it, I figure I might end up letting others regret their choice.

[oldtimes]

A couple of thoughts:
Are the present firefighters paid by the county? If so, then what happens to their retirement funding, if any? Do they still get county benefits if they are "Independent?"
Not to get political and trying to merely make a point, I received an email from a "D" organization telling me to vote "NO." That tends to make it easier for some to vote "YES." I really wish they would not make it a politically partisan issue.
I have read some very good answers on here, both "yay" and "nay." I am going to leave myself open to plausible views before I vote this week or next. So far, both views seem to make sense.
I will continue to look forward to sensible suggestions, or I will just leave it blank. I prefer not to leave it blank but rather than make the wrong decision and regret it, I figure I might end up letting others regret their choice.

Firefighter salaries and pensions are paid by the state

[Bill14564]

A couple of thoughts:
Are the present firefighters paid by the county? If so, then what happens to their retirement funding, if any? Do they still get county benefits if they are "Independent?"
Not to get political and trying to merely make a point, I received an email from a "D" organization telling me to vote "NO." That tends to make it easier for some to vote "YES." I really wish they would not make it a politically partisan issue.
I have read some very good answers on here, both "yay" and "nay." I am going to leave myself open to plausible views before I vote this week or next. So far, both views seem to make sense.
I will continue to look forward to sensible suggestions, or I will just leave it blank. I prefer not to leave it blank but rather than make the wrong decision and regret it, I figure I might end up letting others regret their choice.

Firefighter union seems to be FOR the IFD. Can’t imagine the union risking salaries or benefits.

[golfing eagles]

A couple of thoughts:
Are the present firefighters paid by the county? If so, then what happens to their retirement funding, if any? Do they still get county benefits if they are "Independent?"
Not to get political and trying to merely make a point, I received an email from a "D" organization telling me to vote "NO." That tends to make it easier for some to vote "YES." I really wish they would not make it a politically partisan issue.
I have read some very good answers on here, both "yay" and "nay." I am going to leave myself open to plausible views before I vote this week or next. So far, both views seem to make sense.
I will continue to look forward to sensible suggestions, or I will just leave it blank. I prefer not to leave it blank but rather than make the wrong decision and regret it, I figure I might end up letting others regret their choice.

Thank you, that definitely solidifies my decision. If the organization that sent you an e-mail wants a "NO" vote, then there is no better reason on this planet to vote "YES"

[Mrs.Guy]

Firefighter salaries and pensions are paid by the state

:what: There should be a law against giving out misinformation.

Village Fire Fighters are District employees and are NOT in the State Retirement System. If you don't know that why would you state differently...... to lie? Would you please answer that..... I'm very confused.

[Mrs.Guy]

:confused: I'm thinking some of you have never heard the saying “It is better to remain silent at the risk of being thought a fool, than to talk/post and remove all doubt.”

If you are going to post, you may want to know something about the subject..... and then again, maybe not! :oops:

[oldtimes]

:what: There should be a law against giving out misinformation.

Village Fire Fighters are District employees and are NOT in the State Retirement System. If you don't know that why would you state differently...... to lie? Would you please answer that..... I'm very confused.

Isn't that what this says:
Statutes & Constitution
:View Statutes
:

Online Sunshine (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0100-0199/0175/Sections/0175.162.html)

[Mrs.Guy]

Whether one intends to vote yes or no, residents should be outraged that the proponents of the new fire district are spending our tax dollars on color brochures and what appears to be a professionally made video that are nothing more than propaganda promoting the fire district. The brochures and video are just decoration on the poke in which the pig of the fire district is being hidden.

You are exactly right. We are being sold a pig in a poke by the proponents of the new fire district. The present system works, and there is no need to dismantle it and set up a Fire District with a whole lot of unknowns. Voters should keep in mind the adage: If it ain't broke, don't fix it. The fact that the enabling legislation was quickly put together and pushed through the legislature by the notorious million-dollar-Developer-employee Representative Brett Hage should raise red flags about what is going on.

:ohdear: So.... it's safe to say you are against this under both of your user names? :coolsmiley:

Is there any possibility that you are slightly blinded by your dislike or as some would say hatred? Asking for a friend. A friend who moved to the Villages because he liked the way things are done and hasn't changed since moving here 18 years ago.

[Mrs.Guy]

Isn't that what this says:
Statutes & Constitution
:View Statutes
:

Online Sunshine (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0100-0199/0175/Sections/0175.162.html)

I didn't see VPSD in that link any place. You stated "Firefighter salaries and pensions are paid by the state" that is copy and paste from your post. IT'S NOT CORRECT ABOUT OUR FIRE DEPT.

[Dotneko]

You are exactly right. We are being sold a pig in a poke by the proponents of the new fire district. The present system works, and there is no need to dismantle it and set up a Fire District with a whole lot of unknowns. Voters should keep in mind the adage: If it ain't broke, don't fix it. The fact that the enabling legislation was quickly put together and pushed through the legislature by the notorious million-dollar-Developer-employee Representative Brett Hage should raise red flags about what is going on.

Agreed. If its a good idea, there is nothing stopping it from being put forth again later when the numbers are more concrete. Somebody is getting something out of this and it isnt us imo.

[oldtimes]

I didn't see VPSD in that link any place. You stated "Firefighter salaries and pensions are paid by the state" that is copy and paste from your post. IT'S NOT CORRECT ABOUT OUR FIRE DEPT.

Not salaries, I was wrong about that but it is my understanding that all pensions for fire and police are handled by the state. Where is it stated otherwise?

If this is misinformation it is unintentional.

[Byte1]

:Screen_of_Death: :censored: :024: