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View Full Version : Are you you? (spend off of Deep Thinkers - 4)


MartinSE
08-23-2022, 07:01 PM
Imagine if you will,

One day soon, you have an accident and damage the part of your brain that does visual processing. You are rushed to the hospital and doctors replace that part of your brain with a computer chip/implant that perfectly replicates the function of the visual cortex being replaced. You wake after your surgery and can see perfectly, maybe ever better than before.

Are you sill you, part of your brain has been replaced.

Soon after, you have another accident, another part of your brain gets replaced - full functionality is restored.

Are you still you?

Being a very clumsy person this continues over a couple years and eventually your entire brain has been replaced with artificial parts.

Are you still you? The parts work so well you have all your memories, in fact you now have perfect memory and can recall everything you have ever experienced or learned.

Are you still you? What makes you you? You think you are you, you have all your members...

This is not some silly SciFi discussion. This is beginning today. Many people are already having replacement parts - heart vales, cataract surgery replaces your lens, cochlear implants replace inner ear function. Digital camera sensors are being implanted in eyes and connected to the optical nerve and restore vision to people that were blind. These are happening today.

None are perfect, most not better than what we are born with but we are making advances daily.

Parts of roach brains were replaced with computer chips years ago, mice brains have been augmented more recently.

These areas of research are happening, and progress is happening. The above scenario is coming - probably within 30 to 50 years. Some of you will probably see it.

So, if your entire brain (or your entire body and brain) is replaced, and you can't tell, except things work as good or better ...

Are you still you?

An obvious answer is "if your soul resides in that cyborg body" then, yes, if not, then no. That is certainly one possible answer. For those of us that don't believe in souls, the answer becomes more complicated.

And if that intrigues you, let's take it another step. Your entire body and brain have been replaced with manufactured hardware - doesn't matter if it is organic or mechanical, it believes it is the original you. So, since the parts were manufactured, why not make a few extra copies - duplicates.

Say, you have a duplicate made and instruct it to kill your husbands lover while "you" are conveniently at a police convention - perfect alibi.

Are you guilty of murder? There is DNA and video and eye witnesses that saw you do the deed.

No longer is the question "Are you you", it is instead which you is you?

"Enquiring minds want to know"

(EDITED: This post is based on information contained in the book on "Information Singularity" by Ray Kurtzwell)

Decadeofdave
08-23-2022, 07:26 PM
In the year 2525......
Zagar and Evans

MartinSE
08-23-2022, 07:46 PM
If we are still alive... :)

Good song

Get real
08-24-2022, 06:30 AM
Imagine if you will,

One day soon, you have an accident and damage the part of your brain that does visual processing. You are rushed to the hospital and doctors replace that part of your brain with a computer chip/implant that perfectly replicates the function of the visual cortex being replaced. You wake after your surgery and can see perfectly, maybe ever better than before.

Are you sill you, part of your brain has been replaced.

Soon after, you have another accident, another part of your brain gets replaced - full functionality is restored.

Are you still you?

Being a very clumsy person this continues over a couple years and eventually your entire brain has been replaced with artificial parts.

Are you still you? The parts work so well you have all your memories, in fact you now have perfect memory and can recall everything you have ever experienced or learned.

Are you still you? What makes you you? You think you are you, you have all your members...

This is not some silly SciFi discussion. This is beginning today. Many people are already having replacement parts - heart vales, cataract surgery replaces your lens, cochlear implants replace inner ear function. Digital camera sensors are being implanted in eyes and connected to the optical nerve and restore vision to people that were blind. These are happening today.

None are perfect, most not better than what we are born with but we are making advances daily.

Parts of roach brains were replaced with computer chips years ago, mice brains have been augmented more recently.

These areas of research are happening, and progress is happening. The above scenario is coming - probably within 30 to 50 years. Some of you will probably see it.

So, if your entire brain (or your entire body and brain) is replaced, and you can't tell, except things work as good or better ...

Are you still you?

An obvious answer is "if your soul resides in that cyborg body" then, yes, if not, then no. That is certainly one possible answer. For those of us that don't believe in souls, the answer becomes more complicated.

And if that intrigues you, let's take it another step. Your entire body and brain have been replaced with manufactured hardware - doesn't matter if it is organic or mechanical, it believes it is the original you. So, since the parts were manufactured, why not make a few extra copies - duplicates.

Say, you have a duplicate made and instruct it to kill your husbands lover while "you" are conveniently at a police convention - perfect alibi.

Are you guilty of murder? There is DNA and video and eye witnesses that saw you do the deed.

No longer is the question "Are you you", it is instead which you is you?

"Enquiring minds want to know"

(EDITED: This post is based on information contained in the book on "Information Singularity" by Ray Kurtzwell)

Sounds like half the people in my neighborhood....all outfitted with replacement parts.

MartinSE
08-24-2022, 07:23 AM
Sounds like half the people in my neighborhood....all outfitted with replacement parts.

Yup, that is how long term changes happen, so slowly no one notices … at first..

ThirdOfFive
08-24-2022, 07:31 AM
Sounds like half the people in my neighborhood....all outfitted with replacement parts.
Hey. We're OLD, for the most part.

Welcome to the Metallic Age.

You know, that age when you end up with gold in your teeth, silver in your hair, and lead in your a__.

PugMom
08-24-2022, 09:43 AM
excellent thread, but i need more time to mentally analyze the info before i comment,, pls stand-by :icon_wink:

fdpaq0580
08-24-2022, 10:37 AM
Holy moly! Great question.
My first thought is pertaining to "replacement parts". I buy a new car serial# 111. Over the years I replace every part except the frame where the serial # is located. Since the car's registration is still for serial # 111, ist it the same car? From a legal stand point I would think it probably is.
But, if the frame is irreparably damaged and is replaced using all the original parts, the car would be reregistered with the new serial # 112. Not the same car, even though everything but the frame belonged to serial #111.
How does that relate to humans? All parts may be replaceable execept the brain. Somewhere in the brain the "serial #" resides. Like the car scenario, things can be attached to the brain to enhance function. Damage may occur to the brain, like to the cars frame, possibly repairable, possibly not. The "serial #" is still the same. The part of the brain where sentience resides is where your "serial #" is.
AI, even at its highest level, may appear to be a perfect copy of you, even programmed to "think" it is you. But, your sentience is you, while the AI is still just a copy.