Matthew 6:13.

[Taltarzac725]

Matthew 6:13 - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_6:13)

Now does God lead us into temptation or do we lose God's directions? Hard to know from the various translations of the words.

Or, is it Satan that misguides us? Or one or all of the Seven Deadly Sins?

In 2017, Pope Francis, speaking on the Italian TV channel TV2000, proposed that the wording of the translation be changed to "do not let us fall into temptation", explaining that "I am the one who falls; it's not him [i.e. God] pushing me into temptation to then see how I have fallen"

[JohnN]

The Devil made me do it.- Flip Wilson

[Taltarzac725]

The Devil made me do it.- Flip Wilson

That sounds like one interpretation of Matthew 6:13.

Or things that resemble the devil to some like mental illness; addictions to drugs, alcohol and sex; and caught in the emotional ebb and flow of a mob.

[ThirdOfFive]

The Gospel of Matthew was originally written in Greek. Therefore whatever English translation is the most faithful to the original Greek will be the closest to the true meaning of that particular Gospel.

[davem4616]

in addition to the translations....many words/phrases in the bible have actually not passed the test of time all that well. Definitions/common usage of words in the year 300AD (and earlier) often had very different connotations from how they are seen/understood today

[Taltarzac725]

in addition to the translations....many words/phrases in the bible have actually not passed the test of time all that well. Definitions/common usage of words in the year 300AD (and earlier) often had very different connotations from how they are seen/understood today

That is very true.

[Worldseries27]

matthew 6:13 - wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/matthew_6:13)

now does god lead us into temptation or do we lose god's directions? Hard to know from the various translations of the words.

Or, is it satan that misguides us? Or one or all of the seven deadly sins?
satan was in the garden of eden
satan was in the desert with jesus
satan was in the twilight zone
free will has a price

[kendi]

Matthew 6:13 - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_6:13)

Now does God lead us into temptation or do we lose God's directions? Hard to know from the various translations of the words.

Or, is it Satan that misguides us? Or one or all of the Seven Deadly Sins?

According to the theologians I listen to Pope Francis’s interpretation of the phrase is correct. Gotta go back to the original Greek wording. Translation from Greek into English does not always capture the true meaning.

[MandoMan]

Matthew 6:13 - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_6:13)

Now does God lead us into temptation or do we lose God's directions? Hard to know from the various translations of the words.

Or, is it Satan that misguides us? Or one or all of the Seven Deadly Sins?

From Wikipedia, but in line with scholarship on the topic: “Yahweh, the god in pre-exilic Judaism, created both good and evil, as stated in Isaiah 45:7: "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." The devil does not exist in Jewish scriptures. However, the influence of Zoroastrianism during the Achaemenid Empire introduced evil as a separate principle into the Jewish belief system, which gradually externalized the opposition until the Hebrew term satan developed into a specific type of supernatural entity, changing the monistic view of Judaism into a dualistic one. Later, Rabbinic Judaism rejected the Enochian books (written during the Second Temple period under Persian influence), which depicted the devil as an independent force of evil besides God. After the apocalyptic period, references to Satan in the Tanakh are thought to be allegorical.”

While there are some references to a figure we now call Satan in the Old Testament, some of them are thought to be referring to some king who thought he was as powerful as the gods. Around the time of Christ, there were new writings that claimed that evil came from this demonic figure, but this was not the majority view, and the idea of Satan as the fallen archangel in constant opposition to God and as the father of evil gradually developed in Christianity over several centuries.

The view of God as one who tempts us to do evil, expressed by Jesus in the heart of the Lord’s Prayer, which is in turn the chiastic heart of the Sermon on the Mount, was right in line with the general beliefs of Judaism in his days. It was a conservative viewpoint. A great many Christian church leaders from many denominations have accepted the words of Jesus here as truth, repellant as the idea may be.

If you doubt me, check out the Wikipedia page on “Unconditional Election,” which begins like this: “Unconditional election (also called sovereign election or unconditional grace) is a Calvinist doctrine relating to predestination that describes the actions and motives of God prior to his creation of the world, when he predestined some people to receive salvation, the elect, and the rest he left to continue in their sins and receive the just punishment, eternal damnation, for their transgressions of God's law as outlined in the Old and New Testaments of the Bible. God made these choices according to his own purposes apart from any conditions or qualities related to those persons.” What this means is that before the creation of the world, it pleased God to decide that someday you would be literally born to go to hell, and no amount of prayer or repentance or churchgoing or giving your heart to Jesus or claiming to be born again will change that. If you are okay with that teaching, you probably won’t be too upset by the idea that it is God who leads us into temptation, not Satan. Perhaps this is how he assures our damnation if he has decided to damn us. This is a minority Christian view today, but it IS what the Puritans and Pilgrims who came to our shores, supposedly guided by God, chose to believe.

[OhioBuckeye]

You know it seems like a lot of us interpret the Bible or verses differently.

[Dusty_Star]

From Wikipedia, but in line with scholarship on the topic: “Yahweh, the god in pre-exilic Judaism, created both good and evil, as stated in Isaiah 45:7: "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." The devil does not exist in Jewish scriptures. However, the influence of Zoroastrianism during the Achaemenid Empire introduced evil as a separate principle into the Jewish belief system, which gradually externalized the opposition until the Hebrew term satan developed into a specific type of supernatural entity, changing the monistic view of Judaism into a dualistic one. Later, Rabbinic Judaism rejected the Enochian books (written during the Second Temple period under Persian influence), which depicted the devil as an independent force of evil besides God. After the apocalyptic period, references to Satan in the Tanakh are thought to be allegorical.”

While there are some references to a figure we now call Satan in the Old Testament, some of them are thought to be referring to some king who thought he was as powerful as the gods. Around the time of Christ, there were new writings that claimed that evil came from this demonic figure, but this was not the majority view, and the idea of Satan as the fallen archangel in constant opposition to God and as the father of evil gradually developed in Christianity over several centuries.

The view of God as one who tempts us to do evil, expressed by Jesus in the heart of the Lord’s Prayer, which is in turn the chiastic heart of the Sermon on the Mount, was right in line with the general beliefs of Judaism in his days. It was a conservative viewpoint. A great many Christian church leaders from many denominations have accepted the words of Jesus here as truth, repellant as the idea may be.

If you doubt me, check out the Wikipedia page on “Unconditional Election,” which begins like this: “Unconditional election (also called sovereign election or unconditional grace) is a Calvinist doctrine relating to predestination that describes the actions and motives of God prior to his creation of the world, when he predestined some people to receive salvation, the elect, and the rest he left to continue in their sins and receive the just punishment, eternal damnation, for their transgressions of God's law as outlined in the Old and New Testaments of the Bible. God made these choices according to his own purposes apart from any conditions or qualities related to those persons.” What this means is that before the creation of the world, it pleased God to decide that someday you would be literally born to go to hell, and no amount of prayer or repentance or churchgoing or giving your heart to Jesus or claiming to be born again will change that. If you are okay with that teaching, you probably won’t be too upset by the idea that it is God who leads us into temptation, not Satan. Perhaps this is how he assures our damnation if he has decided to damn us. This is a minority Christian view today, but it IS what the Puritans and Pilgrims who came to our shores, supposedly guided by God, chose to believe.

The Puritans not only had no use for the Church of England they also would pay no attention to any Pope.

[fdpaq0580]

You know it seems like a lot of us interpret the Bible or verses differently.

Absolutely! In my opinion that is great. Read and interpret the Bible yourself rather than blindly accept someone else's interpretation due to their supposed position or status in a religious hierarchy. But also understand how the Bible of today came into being. Seek out the "lost" and discarded scriptures. Get the whole story, or as much as you can.

[tlshoe]

From Wikipedia, but in line with scholarship on the topic: “Yahweh, the god in pre-exilic Judaism, created both good and evil, as stated in Isaiah 45:7: "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." The devil does not exist in Jewish scriptures. However, the influence of Zoroastrianism during the Achaemenid Empire introduced evil as a separate principle into the Jewish belief system, which gradually externalized the opposition until the Hebrew term satan developed into a specific type of supernatural entity, changing the monistic view of Judaism into a dualistic one. Later, Rabbinic Judaism rejected the Enochian books (written during the Second Temple period under Persian influence), which depicted the devil as an independent force of evil besides God. After the apocalyptic period, references to Satan in the Tanakh are thought to be allegorical.”

While there are some references to a figure we now call Satan in the Old Testament, some of them are thought to be referring to some king who thought he was as powerful as the gods. Around the time of Christ, there were new writings that claimed that evil came from this demonic figure, but this was not the majority view, and the idea of Satan as the fallen archangel in constant opposition to God and as the father of evil gradually developed in Christianity over several centuries.

The view of God as one who tempts us to do evil, expressed by Jesus in the heart of the Lord’s Prayer, which is in turn the chiastic heart of the Sermon on the Mount, was right in line with the general beliefs of Judaism in his days. It was a conservative viewpoint. A great many Christian church leaders from many denominations have accepted the words of Jesus here as truth, repellant as the idea may be.

If you doubt me, check out the Wikipedia page on “Unconditional Election,” which begins like this: “Unconditional election (also called sovereign election or unconditional grace) is a Calvinist doctrine relating to predestination that describes the actions and motives of God prior to his creation of the world, when he predestined some people to receive salvation, the elect, and the rest he left to continue in their sins and receive the just punishment, eternal damnation, for their transgressions of God's law as outlined in the Old and New Testaments of the Bible. God made these choices according to his own purposes apart from any conditions or qualities related to those persons.” What this means is that before the creation of the world, it pleased God to decide that someday you would be literally born to go to hell, and no amount of prayer or repentance or churchgoing or giving your heart to Jesus or claiming to be born again will change that. If you are okay with that teaching, you probably won’t be too upset by the idea that it is God who leads us into temptation, not Satan. Perhaps this is how he assures our damnation if he has decided to damn us. This is a minority Christian view today, but it IS what the Puritans and Pilgrims who came to our shores, supposedly guided by God, chose to believe.


If interested in the topic of "predestination," you may enjoy watching a well-organized and executed debate on YouTube -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEU2IuC1d24 -- between Dr. James White, a Calvinist, and Dr. Michael Brown, a former Calvinist and converted Jew. Both are excellent debaters, and interestingly, they once teamed up to debate two other men on the issue of Trinitarian vs. Unitarian views of God. White and Brown defended the Trinitarian view in that debate.

[tlshoe]

Matthew 6:13 - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_6:13)

Now does God lead us into temptation or do we lose God's directions? Hard to know from the various translations of the words.

Or, is it Satan that misguides us? Or one or all of the Seven Deadly Sins?


Reading James 1:13-14 (verses below using ESV translation) may help shed light on the issue of whether God tempts us:
[13] Let no one say when he is tempted, 'I am being tempted by God,' for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one.
[14] But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire.

[Jack58033]

Is Rod Sterling the devil?

[fdpaq0580]

Reading James 1:13-14 (verses below using ESV translation) may help shed light on the issue of whether God tempts us:
[13] Let no one say when he is tempted, 'I am being tempted by God,' for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one.
[14] But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire.

Catch 22. God created you with needs to survive and to procreate. Those very needs are the basis for temptation. You desire that which will satisfy need.

[fdpaq0580]

Is Rod Sterling the devil?

Who is Rod Sterling?

[Worldseries27]

is rod sterling the devil?
rod sterling was a ww2 paratrooper heavily decorated who took hollywood by storm and became creator of the hit show , the twilight zone.
One of it's epic tales is " howling man" which is linked to this discussion.
Ciao

[rogerrice60]

Reading James 1:13-14 (verses below using ESV translation) may help shed light on the issue of whether God tempts us:
[13] Let no one say when he is tempted, 'I am being tempted by God,' for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one.
[14] But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire.
Absolutely true.
God does not tempt us to do evil; Satan does.
Surprised how many on this thread have a total misunderstanding of God's unending love, mercy, & grace for all of mankind. He loves each of us so much He gave his only begotten Son for our redemption!
He loves the sinner just as much as the Christian; (but hates the sin).
If you don't know Him as your Lord & Savior, talk with Him, repent of your past sins and ask Him into your heart. Now praise Him for saving your soul & tell others how easy it is to receive salvation and be with Him throughout ETERNITY (that's a long time) and much better than spending eternity in Hell!

[JMintzer]

Who is Rod Sterling?

Rod Serling's cousin... :D

[JMintzer]

rod sterling was a ww2 paratrooper heavily decorated who took hollywood by storm and became creator of the hit show , the twilight zone.
One of it's epic tales is " howling man" which is linked to this discussion.
Ciao

Close, but no cigar...

Rod Serling - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Serling)

[Worldseries27]

is rod sterling the devil?
rod sterling was a ww2 paratrooper heavily decorated who took hollywood by storm and became creator of the hit show , the twilight zone.
One of it's epic tales is " howling man" which is linked to this discussion.
Ciao

[manaboutown]

rod sterling was a ww2 paratrooper heavily decorated who took hollywood by storm and became creator of the hit show , the twilight zone.
One of it's epic tales is " howling man" which is linked to this discussion.
Ciao

I loved "The Twilight Zone". So much irony.

[Velvet]

Since by definition, God is the source of all good, He would not lead anyone astray or into temptation. Therefore, it has to be someone or something else that leads us into temptation. I like the idea about “falling” so the meaning would be “keep us from falling into temptation” myself.

[Velvet]

If interested in the topic of "predestination," you may enjoy watching a well-organized and executed debate on YouTube -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEU2IuC1d24 -- between Dr. James White, a Calvinist, and Dr. Michael Brown, a former Calvinist and converted Jew. Both are excellent debaters, and interestingly, they once teamed up to debate two other men on the issue of Trinitarian vs. Unitarian views of God. White and Brown defended the Trinitarian view in that debate.

That must have been a very interesting debate. People trying to understand the nature of God - I would love to hear their views.

[JMintzer]

rod sterling was a ww2 paratrooper heavily decorated who took hollywood by storm and became creator of the hit show , the twilight zone.
One of it's epic tales is " howling man" which is linked to this discussion.
Ciao

Serling, not Sterling...

[Taltarzac725]

Saw this online. Kind of amusing.

On a personal note, my Mom was Catholic but became Lutheran when she married my Dad. And I went to BYU Law School for about 10 days back in 1982 on a Merit Scholarship which paid for what I would have given for tuition if I had been a Mormon. But it looked like I would be taking it from all sides to convert so left to get advanced training in librarianship. I did read quite a lot of The Book of Mormon for preparation though.


A group of Christians are tasked with changing a lightbulb.
The Charismatic changes it easily; his hands are already up.



The Roman Catholic refuses; he prefers candles.



The Pentecostal changes it while his friends pray against the Lord of Darkness.



The Christian Scientist can't, but he prays for the light to turn back on.



The Calvinist refuses; God has predestined when the light will be on.



The Episcopalian changes the lightbulb while his friends say how much they liked the old one.



The Mormon tries to change it as five wives tell him how to do it right.



The Baptist changes the lightbulb, gets it approved by three committees, and then they all eat some casserole.



The Lutheran refuses: he doesn't believe in change.



The Unitarian chooses not to make a statement either in favor of, or against, the need for a lightbulb. However, if in your own journey you have found that lightbulbs work for you, you are encouraged to create a poem or modern dance about your personal relationship with the lightbulb, and present it next Sunday when we will explore a number of lightbulb traditions including incandescent, fluorescent, halogen, compact fluorescent, low-pressure sodium, and LED, all of which are equally valid paths to luminescence.

[Velvet]

Oh the lightbulb story! That has me in peels of laughter… stereotypes… a grain of truth …lol

[fdpaq0580]

Rod Serling's cousin... :D

Not first cousins, surely😏