Seniors being shorted of social security benefits

[Romad]

(WATCH) Shorting Seniors | Sharyl Attkisson (https://sharylattkisson.com/2022/08/watch-shorting-seniors-2/)

A widow signing up for survivor's benefits and her own retirement benefits at the same time is called “dual enrollment." And too often, McAdams says, it’s not a good thing.

McAdams: It could be men, but it's typically widows — women — who applied for survivor benefits, and their claims were set up incorrectly. And, as a result, they've lost money for years, and they continue to lose hundreds of dollars every month.

I wonder if anyone here has seen this!

[Bay Kid]

Happened to Dad when Mom passed. He now gets less than last year.

[bsloan1960]

We just went to a SS seminar. My wife is eligible to collect her late husband's Social Security- which is significantly more than hers would be. Our group was told that a widow/widower must choose which to collect- either your own SS or your late spouse's. You may opt for the higher of the 2. That you can not collect both.

[Stu from NYC]

If this happens a phone call to SS or a visit to their office would be in order

[manaboutown]

Even an ex-wife or ex-husband if previously married long enough can collect SS based on the earnings of their former spouse.

"If you are divorced, your ex-spouse can receive benefits based on your record (even if you have remarried) if: Your marriage lasted 10 years or longer. Your ex-spouse is unmarried. Your ex-spouse is age 62 or older."

From: Benefits Planner: Retirement | Benefits For Your Family | SSA (https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/retirement/planner/applying7.html)

[bsloan1960]

It sounds like people are saying that under Duel Enrollment someone can collect 2 Social Security checks. Is that what is being said? It is my understanding that if a divorced or late spouse's check is to be collected, a person must choose Either their own SS check OR the spouse's, and that Both can not be collected. Here is a quote from the Social Security website (If I wrong please tell me because I would benefit from being able to collect 2:

//////////
(from SS.GOV)
What is dual entitlement in Social Security?
Dually entitled beneficiaries qualify for benefits based on their own work record and a spouse or survivor benefit based on their spouse's work record. Generally, the higher of the two benefits is paid.
/////////

[Djean1981]

It sounds like people are saying that under Duel Enrollment someone can collect 2 Social Security checks. Is that what is being said? It is my understanding that if a divorced or late spouse's check is to be collected, a person must choose Either their own SS check OR the spouse's, and that Both can not be collected. Here is a quote from the Social Security website (If I wrong please tell me because I would benefit from being able to collect 2:

//////////
(from SS.GOV)
What is dual entitlement in Social Security?
Dually entitled beneficiaries qualify for benefits based on their own work record and a spouse or survivor benefit based on their spouse's work record. Generally, the higher of the two benefits is paid.
/////////
Yes, not both..

[manaboutown]

Yes, not both..


You get to take your pick.

[bsloan1960]

Thank you. So your answers prompt this next question. If you can only select ONE SS check, what is the Duel Enrollment that is being discussed?

[Bill14564]

Thank you. So your answers prompt this next question. If you can only select ONE SS check, what is the Duel Enrollment that is being discussed?

A widow (or widower) walks into the SS office to apply for benefits. They are eligible for survivor benefits from their deceased spouse and their own benefits.

What this thread is about:
- The SS office enrolls them for both (dual enrollment)
- They collect on the one that pays more

The problem: By enrolling them in both, their benefits are "locked" at their current age which might be less than full retirement age. This means their benefits are locked in at a lower amount than what they could be getting.

A better approach:
- The SS office enrolls them for survivor benefits
- Their own benefits continue to increase as they reach full retirement age or older
- At some point they enroll for their own benefits when their benefits exceed the survivor benefits

By "dual enrolling" at an early age they lock in an amount for their benefits which will never increase. By enrolling in only the survivor benefits they receive a check now but can later switch to their own benefits if those become larger than the survivor benefits.

At least that's what I understood the article to be about.

[Garywt]

I currently collect SS disability. When I am old enough to collect the normal SS I was told I get to pick the disability or the SS which ever is larger but not both.

[Worldseries27]

(watch) shorting seniors | sharyl attkisson (https://sharylattkisson.com/2022/08/watch-shorting-seniors-2/)

a widow signing up for survivor's benefits and her own retirement benefits at the same time is called “dual enrollment." and too often, mcadams says, it’s not a good thing.

Mcadams: It could be men, but it's typically widows — women — who applied for survivor benefits, and their claims were set up incorrectly. And, as a result, they've lost money for years, and they continue to lose hundreds of dollars every month.

I wonder if anyone here has seen this!
i wonder if dottie is owed money, carl loved her so.

[mydavid]

My friend was not old enough for SS when her husband passed, she received survivors SS until age 70 and then switch to her own. Her SS doubled.:BigApplause:

[Bridget Staunton]

You cannot double dip. When I lost my sweetheart, SS suggested to take his until I was older and then take my own. This is what i did & the income is much larger. If you wait until your 70 it’s increased more because it’s based on longevity & your lifespan has decreased. My understanding

[airstreamingypsy]

We just went to a SS seminar. My wife is eligible to collect her late husband's Social Security- which is significantly more than hers would be. Our group was told that a widow/widower must choose which to collect- either your own SS or your late spouse's. You may opt for the higher of the 2. That you can not collect both.

Correct. I collect my late husband's which is more than mine, I can't also collect mine.

[airstreamingypsy]

Thank you. So your answers prompt this next question. If you can only select ONE SS check, what is the Duel Enrollment that is being discussed?

Pistols at dawn?

[nn0wheremann]

(WATCH) Shorting Seniors | Sharyl Attkisson (https://sharylattkisson.com/2022/08/watch-shorting-seniors-2/)

A widow signing up for survivor's benefits and her own retirement benefits at the same time is called “dual enrollment." And too often, McAdams says, it’s not a good thing.

McAdams: It could be men, but it's typically widows — women — who applied for survivor benefits, and their claims were set up incorrectly. And, as a result, they've lost money for years, and they continue to lose hundreds of dollars every month.

I wonder if anyone here has seen this!
When the widow applies for benefits she should be given the options on which account to apply, and when, and the amounts she can be paid. Sometimes she is better off taking the reduced widows benefit at age 60, the switching to her own at full retirement age, sometimes she is better off taking her own reduced retirement at age 62, then switching to full widow’s benefit at age 65. If she remarries after age 60, the widow’s benefit can continue. If she outlives husband number 2 then she can switch to a widow’s benefit on his account if it is higher. Same rules for widowers. The answers are all in the numbers. It can get complicated, but it is comprehensible, provided she/he gets the right information from a competent Social Security claims representative. The accuracy rate on Retirement & Survivor’s Insuance (RSI) claims is extremely high. 35 years with the Administration, the last 20 of them in Office of Quality Assurance. When correcting an error the Philadelphia Program Center made on my wife’s claim, we found the folks at the Leesburg office entirely competent.

[jammaiora]

(WATCH) Shorting Seniors | Sharyl Attkisson (https://sharylattkisson.com/2022/08/watch-shorting-seniors-2/)

A widow signing up for survivor's benefits and her own retirement benefits at the same time is called “dual enrollment." And too often, McAdams says, it’s not a good thing.

McAdams: It could be men, but it's typically widows — women — who applied for survivor benefits, and their claims were set up incorrectly. And, as a result, they've lost money for years, and they continue to lose hundreds of dollars every month.

I wonder if anyone here has seen this!
Next time do some fact checking on your source. Don't be fooled by her program headline that she does independent journalism. She works for a "news" outlet/company, Sinclair, that has trouble reporting FACTS. She is a conspiracy advocate - vaccines and autism, among others. She has connections to QAnon. She has filed frivolous lawsuits and continues to lose. I wouldn't believe a word she says! In addition, she is another GRIFTER. Look at the right side of the site you sent, and you will see she is asking for money. Pathetic!

[Bill14564]

Next time do some fact checking on your source. Don't be fooled by her program headline that she does independent journalism. She works for a "news" outlet/company, Sinclair, that has trouble reporting FACTS. She is a conspiracy advocate - vaccines and autism, among others. She has connections to QAnon. She has filed frivolous lawsuits and continues to lose. I wouldn't believe a word she says! In addition, she is another GRIFTER. Look at the right side of the site you sent, and you will see she is asking for money. Pathetic!

What does any of that have to do with the subject of this thread?

Fact checking? Ok, in your fact checking what did you find about the story that was false?

[PugMom]

i think he/she posted in the wrong thread

[OhioBuckeye]

We all know S.S. Going broke. Surprised no one mentioned that. We should be concerned about our grandchildren & possibly our children. But then again maybe we don’t care!

[ryoungs]

This is ever so slightly off the subject, but here is my report anyway: My wife and I, both of us life-long teachers, get a pension under the Illinois Teachers Retirement System. It is not too shabby, the amount we get, and we have no complaints about it.

Besides teaching, I normally also worked a variety of other jobs. I earned enough by "moonlighting" that by the time I retired I had enough quarters under the SS system that I could draw the maximum Social Security. My wife gets no SS, but we both became eligible for Medicare. Of course, I can't double dip, so my Social Security is greatly reduced (I get $450 each month from SS), but I'm not complaining because that is the way the laws governing SS are set up. But here is another thing---> When we bought a house in The Villages, we took $200 K for it from an IRA account. That, of course, triggered taxes, which we expected and paid. What we didn't expect was that Social Security decided the $200 K we took from savings was income. Suddenly, our family income was quite high, at least for that year, and it caused my tiny SS check to be cut even lower. But, more importantly, our high income that year changed our family Medicare premiums. Now, our Medicare premiums are MUCH higher than before. My wife's Medicare premium, for example, went from $240 a month to $640 per month. Now, we are not complaining about any of this, but I thought it might be something worth throwing into the discussion.

[jammaiora]

What does any of that have to do with the subject of this thread?

Fact checking? Ok, in your fact checking what did you find about the story that was false?
The source of the original thread, is not credible. Therefore, I and anyone shouldn't believe what she is supposedly "reporting". You can see from responses, by followers of the tread, that the information is flawed. She has a reputation for being anti-government. Do some research on her before you trust what she is "selling"! Just another GRIFTER, LIKE THE ONE THAT GOT BOOTED!

[Speedie]

We all know S.S. Going broke. Surprised no one mentioned that. We should be concerned about our grandchildren & possibly our children. But then again maybe we don’t care!

Why not put a trillion of the loan forgiveness or trillion of free stuff for illegals into the ss fund? Problem solved for next 100 years

AND that might pay off voters over 50 to jump on the train

[Bill14564]

The source of the original thread, is not credible. Therefore, I and anyone shouldn't believe what she is supposedly "reporting". You can see from responses, by followers of the tread, that the information is flawed. She has a reputation for being anti-government. Do some research on her before you trust what she is "selling"! Just another GRIFTER, LIKE THE ONE THAT GOT BOOTED!

So you don't have any facts to dispute what the article says.

(The article may be exaggerating the number of times survivors are dual enrolled and lose benefits but it is likely that it does happen. I am thankful for the information - it is something to be aware of if I am ever in the unfortunate situation)

[toeser]

This is ever so slightly off the subject, but here is my report anyway: My wife and I, both of us life-long teachers, get a pension under the Illinois Teachers Retirement System. It is not too shabby, the amount we get, and we have no complaints about it.

Besides teaching, I normally also worked a variety of other jobs. I earned enough by "moonlighting" that by the time I retired I had enough quarters under the SS system that I could draw the maximum Social Security. My wife gets no SS, but we both became eligible for Medicare. Of course, I can't double dip, so my Social Security is greatly reduced (I get $450 each month from SS), but I'm not complaining because that is the way the laws governing SS are set up. But here is another thing---> When we bought a house in The Villages, we took $200 K for it from an IRA account. That, of course, triggered taxes, which we expected and paid. What we didn't expect was that Social Security decided the $200 K we took from savings was income. Suddenly, our family income was quite high, at least for that year, and it caused my tiny SS check to be cut even lower. But, more importantly, our high income that year changed our family Medicare premiums. Now, our Medicare premiums are MUCH higher than before. My wife's Medicare premium, for example, went from $240 a month to $640 per month. Now, we are not complaining about any of this, but I thought it might be something worth throwing into the discussion.

Because I think income taxes will be going up in the future, I have been making accelerated withdrawals from my and my wife's IRA's. Medicare really smacks you when they think you make a lot of money. Combined with supplemental insurance, our total healthcare insurance bill is absolutely huge.

[DAVES]

This is ever so slightly off the subject, but here is my report anyway: My wife and I, both of us life-long teachers, get a pension under the Illinois Teachers Retirement System. It is not too shabby, the amount we get, and we have no complaints about it.

Besides teaching, I normally also worked a variety of other jobs. I earned enough by "moonlighting" that by the time I retired I had enough quarters under the SS system that I could draw the maximum Social Security. My wife gets no SS, but we both became eligible for Medicare. Of course, I can't double dip, so my Social Security is greatly reduced (I get $450 each month from SS), but I'm not complaining because that is the way the laws governing SS are set up. But here is another thing---> When we bought a house in The Villages, we took $200 K for it from an IRA account. That, of course, triggered taxes, which we expected and paid. What we didn't expect was that Social Security decided the $200 K we took from savings was income. Suddenly, our family income was quite high, at least for that year, and it caused my tiny SS check to be cut even lower. But, more importantly, our high income that year changed our family Medicare premiums. Now, our Medicare premiums are MUCH higher than before. My wife's Medicare premium, for example, went from $240 a month to $640 per month. Now, we are not complaining about any of this, but I thought it might be something worth throwing into the discussion.

Nothing is new. Throughout history it has always been the same. Everyone wants but no one wants to pay. I was self employed. First of all self employed means when you complain about the boss you discover you are talking to yourself. People do not realize when you work for others typically over 40% of you income is UNTAXED benefits. Social security an employee pays roughly 7% tax your employer matches what they take from you. Self employed and you pay 13%.

Medicare, we never qualified for the $240, we have always paid the top rate. We were surprised to find it does not pay for us to itemize our taxes so we get the standard deduction. Thus, interest on our mortgage is not a tax deduction.

Covid payments. imagine they sent checks to retired people who have not worked in years because they could not get to WORK. If, I could have been paid I would have of course take the money. I have and continue to pay too much tax to be sent a check-I get to pay for it.

As said everyone wants, no one wants to pay-that includes me.

[Dond1959]

This is ever so slightly off the subject, but here is my report anyway: My wife and I, both of us life-long teachers, get a pension under the Illinois Teachers Retirement System. It is not too shabby, the amount we get, and we have no complaints about it.

Besides teaching, I normally also worked a variety of other jobs. I earned enough by "moonlighting" that by the time I retired I had enough quarters under the SS system that I could draw the maximum Social Security. My wife gets no SS, but we both became eligible for Medicare. Of course, I can't double dip, so my Social Security is greatly reduced (I get $450 each month from SS), but I'm not complaining because that is the way the laws governing SS are set up. But here is another thing---> When we bought a house in The Villages, we took $200 K for it from an IRA account. That, of course, triggered taxes, which we expected and paid. What we didn't expect was that Social Security decided the $200 K we took from savings was income. Suddenly, our family income was quite high, at least for that year, and it caused my tiny SS check to be cut even lower. But, more importantly, our high income that year changed our family Medicare premiums. Now, our Medicare premiums are MUCH higher than before. My wife's Medicare premium, for example, went from $240 a month to $640 per month. Now, we are not complaining about any of this, but I thought it might be something worth throwing into the discussion.

You Medicare premium will go back down once your income goes back down. It is an issue for Medicare Part B so you need to watch your income at 63 and beyond as they look back 2 years. I believe the maximum income this year for the lowest Medicare premium is around $170k.

On survivor benefits or spousal benefits SS it is weird how they calculate the amount. They will always take your benefit based on your age and then add the amount to your benefit to get up to the survivor or spousal benefit. So you are always taking your benefit when claiming. If your individual benefit is higher then you always take your own benefit. To get the maximum survivor benefit the higher earner should always wait until 70 to claim their benefit.

[Stu from NYC]

We all know S.S. Going broke. Surprised no one mentioned that. We should be concerned about our grandchildren & possibly our children. But then again maybe we don’t care!

SS not going broke at some point they will fix it (I hope).

However if they do not there is still enough money going into the system to pay out about 71% of current payouts.

[joshgun]

I currently collect SS disability. When I am old enough to collect the normal SS I was told I get to pick the disability or the SS which ever is larger but not both.

Actually, you will get two checks. One your ssdi check and a SS check for the difference between your ssdi benefit and your retirement benefit. That surprised me but how my wife was paid when she got to retirement age.

[Boomer]

This is ever so slightly off the subject, but here is my report anyway: My wife and I, both of us life-long teachers, get a pension under the Illinois Teachers Retirement System. It is not too shabby, the amount we get, and we have no complaints about it.

Besides teaching, I normally also worked a variety of other jobs. I earned enough by "moonlighting" that by the time I retired I had enough quarters under the SS system that I could draw the maximum Social Security. My wife gets no SS, but we both became eligible for Medicare. Of course, I can't double dip, so my Social Security is greatly reduced (I get $450 each month from SS), but I'm not complaining because that is the way the laws governing SS are set up. But here is another thing---> When we bought a house in The Villages, we took $200 K for it from an IRA account. That, of course, triggered taxes, which we expected and paid. What we didn't expect was that Social Security decided the $200 K we took from savings was income. Suddenly, our family income was quite high, at least for that year, and it caused my tiny SS check to be cut even lower. But, more importantly, our high income that year changed our family Medicare premiums. Now, our Medicare premiums are MUCH higher than before. My wife's Medicare premium, for example, went from $240 a month to $640 per month. Now, we are not complaining about any of this, but I thought it might be something worth throwing into the discussion.



IRMAA got you. (Income-Related Monthly Adjustment Amount)

IRMAA shows up two years after your income crosses the threshold. The first threshold for 2022, I think is $182,000 AGI, married filing jointly and $91,000 filing single. There are further thresholds. That means 2022 will drive what happens to your Medicare in 2024.

IRMAA can come as a big, ugly surprise. A lot of people don’t know about it until it’s too late.

Big IRA withdrawals can trigger IRMAA. When RMD age comes, it can be wise to project income to see how close you are to crossing that income threshold, and if it looks like you are going to — and if you are feeling charitable — you can use a QCD. (Qualified Charitable Distribution) The amount of the QCD does not get added to the AGI, so giving some money away can help to avoid IRMAA. (But you have to follow the QCD rules perfectly and keep good records.)

One of the maddening things about IRMAA is that — as I understand it — once you enter IRMAA’s territory, it’s all or nothing — even if you cross over that threshold by just a few bucks — so if you think you might come close some year, it can be worth doing some projecting. (Disclaimer: I am not an accountant, so check with yours if anything I am saying interests you in knowing more. )

If you are not to RMD age yet, you might want to think about doing some conversion to Roth along the way. It’s pay now or pay later, but paying now can pay off. I did that. BUT, my only regret is not doing more conversions. Later on, if you are into a big spending year, you can dip into that Roth and not be taxed…….


Doing these conversions is another thing that requires learning how to do it right — and that is not from some other retired teacher on TOTV. :) ……

Pay an accountant — although I have found it really helps to do a little reading on the subject first, pick up some of the tax vocabulary, and then your time with your accountant will be so much better used. In other words— do your homework first.

Boomer

[OhioBuckeye]

Don’t think the Seniors are being short changed the S.S. is running out of money thanks to one of our Presidents who saw there was so much money in it that he thought he could make it a general fund. Hope TOTV see’s that I didn’t use any names! Hope I didn’t break any rules.

[Caymus]

IRMAA got you. (Income-Related Monthly Adjustment Amount)

IRMAA shows up two years after your income crosses the threshold. The first threshold for 2022, I think is $182,000 AGI, married filing jointly and $91,000 filing single. There are further thresholds. That means 2022 will drive what happens to your Medicare in 2024.

IRMAA can come as a big, ugly surprise. A lot of people don’t know about it until it’s too late.

Big IRA withdrawals can trigger IRMAA. When RMD age comes, it can be wise to project income to see how close you are to crossing that income threshold, and if it looks like you are going to — and if you are feeling charitable — you can use a QCD. (Qualified Charitable Distribution) The amount of the QCD does not get added to the AGI, so giving some money away can help to avoid IRMAA. (But you have to follow the QCD rules perfectly and keep good records.)

One of the maddening things about IRMAA is that — as I understand it — once you enter IRMAA’s territory, it’s all or nothing — even if you cross over that threshold by just a few bucks — so if you think you might come close some year, it can be worth doing some projecting. (Disclaimer: I am not an accountant, so check with yours if anything I am saying interests you in knowing more. )

If you are not to RMD age yet, you might want to think about doing some conversion to Roth along the way. It’s pay now or pay later, but paying now can pay off. I did that. BUT, my only regret is not doing more conversions. Later on, if you are into a big spending year, you can dip into that Roth and not be taxed…….


Doing these conversions is another thing that requires learning how to do it right — and that is not from some other retired teacher on TOTV. :) ……

Pay an accountant — although I have found it really helps to do a little reading on the subject first, pick up some of the tax vocabulary, and then your time with your accountant will be so much better used. In other words— do your homework first.

Boomer

I am not on Medicare yet, but I assume that IRMMA also applies to Advantage Plans not just Part D and supplements.

[Richpetty42]

From the ssa.gov website:
If You Are The Survivor

Just as you plan for your family's protection if you die, you should consider the Social Security benefits that may be available if you are the survivor — that is, the spouse, child, or parent of a worker who dies. That person must have worked long enough under Social Security to qualify for benefits.

How Your Spouse Earns Social Security Survivors Benefits

A worker can earn up to four credits each year. In 2022, for example, your spouse can earn one credit for each $1,510 of wages or self-employment income. When your spouse has earned $6,040 they have earned their four credits for the year.

The number of credits needed to provide benefits for survivors depends on the worker's age when they die. No one needs more than 40 credits (10 years of work) to be eligible for any Social Security benefit. But, the younger a person is, the fewer credits they must have for family members to receive survivors benefits.

Some survivors can get benefits if the worker has credit for one and one-half years of work (six credits) in the three years just before their death. Each person’s situation is different and you need to talk to one of our claims representatives about your choices.

[Vermilion Villager]

Interesting conversations about dual enrollment....and we wonder why the social security system is going bankrupt? :duck:

[Caymus]

Interesting conversations about dual enrollment....and we wonder why the social security system is going bankrupt? :duck:

Don't forget SSI crazy checks.