What changes would you make at The Market at Sawgrass Grove?

[Rainger99]

There are a lot of complaints about The Market at Sawgrass Grove.

If you owned it and could make any changes, what would you do?

[tophcfa]

There are a lot of complaints about The Market at Sawgrass Grove.

If you owned it and could make any changes, what would you do?

I would sell it and use the proceeds to go scuba diving and golfing : )

[fdpaq0580]

I would sell it and use the proceeds to go scuba diving and golfing : )

That sounds great, however, I was thinking demolish it and start over. Think: better facilities, better food, reasonable pricing, and pay options that serve patrons needs or desires.
I don't expect it will improve with time. If enough people tolerate the prices and practices, even though they don't like it, then the business has no motivation to change.

[Bogie Shooter]

I would begin by reading the other thread with 131 posts.:read:

[fdpaq0580]

I would begin by reading the other thread with 131 posts.:read:

Did. Thought this was not about what you think is wrong (the other post), but a different question about what would you do different.

[Rainger99]

Did. Thought this was not about what you think is wrong (the other post), but a different question about what would you do different.

Correct. It is always easy to complain. Much harder to offer helpful suggestions. We will see how many people have useful suggestions.

[JSR22]

There are a lot of complaints about The Market at Sawgrass Grove.

If you owned it and could make any changes, what would you do?

Serve food and beverages using real dishes, silverware and glasses. Cushions on the chairs. Soundproofing on the ceiling.

[Boston-Sean]

It hadn't opened yet when I was there but I saw the Villages promotional video as the place was close to opening. From looking at the video my initial impression was that the place looked like an echo chamber. I didn't see anything that would absorb any sound. I'm fine with noise as long as it doesn't reach the level where you can't hold a conversation. My guess is that if/when that place is full and they add some music it's going to be very loud.

I think the quality/price of the food/drinks is a self correcting problem. Poor operators won't survive.

So doing something about the sound/noise would be my fix.

[Laker14]

There are a lot of complaints about The Market at Sawgrass Grove.

If you owned it and could make any changes, what would you do?

Interesting question. I would start by suggesting that we don't even know if it's broken. The fact that some people have stated they didn't like it doesn't mean that it won't function eventually just the way the developer envisioned. Nobody will know how successful it will be until at least one snowbird season has come and gone. There may be plenty of people who will patronize it, and support it, just the way it is.

I'm not in the food services business, and I haven't even been to the place yet, but from what I've read on TOTV, I think they have to make a choice between inexpensive fast food delivery, or charging enough to allow them to serve food worth eating, on real plates, with real knives and forks and glasses. It reads to me as if they are charging a premium for the thrill of being in the facility, but not serving food that is worth the premium compared to the food and cost of going to a decent restaurant outside the bubble.
That might work at a sports venue, but I think the "thrill" of being in the Sawgrass facility will wear off very fast if the food and service isn't worth the cost.

[retiredguy123]

Attach a Costco to it.

[Babubhat]

They are waiting for The 470 developments because they will have no other option. Visited once and have no reason to return

[alwann]

There are a lot of complaints about The Market at Sawgrass Grove.

If you owned it and could make any changes, what would you do?

Turn the whole damn thing into a pro shop/country club like all the ones north of 44 that are crowded with people from below 44 who have little or nothing in the way of restaurants.

[CPD050]

Attach a Costco to it.

Thanks for the laugh!

[Stu from NYC]

Thanks for the laugh!

Improve the food and the ambiance

[Kenswing]

I would put it in the new pet free village.

[JSR22]

I would put it in the new pet free village.

Very funny!

[Mrs.Guy]

There are a lot of complaints about The Market at Sawgrass Grove.

If you owned it and could make any changes, what would you do?

I would sell it and use the proceeds to go scuba diving and golfing : )

:laugh: That's hilarious! I asked the Morse family the same thing about HHCC..... they had the same reply. :rolleyes:

[tophcfa]

Turn the whole damn thing into a pro shop/country club like all the ones north of 44 that are crowded with people from below 44 who have little or nothing in the way of restaurants.

And then in about 20-25 years they can tear it all down like Hacienda Hills.

[tophcfa]

I would put it in the new pet free village.

Since we’re cross threading, there is one veeeeeery long thread that would suggest the best thing to do would be NOTHING.

[ThirdOfFive]

There are a lot of complaints about The Market at Sawgrass Grove.

If you owned it and could make any changes, what would you do?
Maybe none...I think the mistake was that it opened for business before it was ready. A lot of the complaints seem to be attributable to trying to do too much, too soon.

[Kenswing]

Since we’re cross threading, there is one veeeeeery long thread that would suggest the best thing to do would be NOTHING.

There’s a lot of wisdom in NOTHING.

[Normal]

There are a lot of complaints about The Market at Sawgrass Grove.

If you owned it and could make any changes, what would you do?

Is that a fair question when The Market at Sawgrass Grove isn’t completely open yet? Do you mean after the complete experience has been taken in?

If I was shortsighted and only had what is there now, I think I would concentrate on discounting drinks more to attract larger crowds. Then I would integrate outside activities coordinated by a marketing group to perpetuate reoccurring interest in the area. Advertising specials in food, drinks and events could go a long way. Bring in a Bubba’s type place like in Leesburg for area fish specials and throw in a Gator Joes/Rusty Bucket (Tarpon Area). Maybe even do a Homosassa type Freezer Tiki Bar?

Keep the theme, but expand the tangents by going with a Floridian theme like a beach or citrus area or something. Wine tasting would certainly be in there with local wineries , cheeses etc. Where the heck does Scottland come into play?

[Stu from NYC]

Maybe none...I think the mistake was that it opened for business before it was ready. A lot of the complaints seem to be attributable to trying to do too much, too soon.

This is what I would suggest of the owners

Lot of truth in that. Pizza place started without knowing how to use a wood fired oven it would appear.

Also reconsider your price points. You do know where your business is located.

Sound absorbing materials would be great

[VApeople]

There are a lot of complaints about The Market at Sawgrass Grove.

If you owned it and could make any changes, what would you do?

I would open it up instead of having it behind doors and air conditioned. That would make it a nice place to hang out in the shade.

Then I would improve the acoustics so it would not be so noisy.

[Normal]

This is what I would suggest of the owners

Lot of truth in that. Pizza place started without knowing how to use a wood fired oven it would appear.

Also reconsider your price points. You do know where your business is located.

Sound absorbing materials would be great

You are being too pragmatic in a situation where academics were used instead of real world common sense. The idea likely looked good on paper?

[LAFwUs]

>>If you owned it and could make any changes, what would you do?<<

wouldn't this be like trying to pour the milk back in the glass after its spilled on the floor?

The reality of Sawgrass is a big let down for nearly everyone that has gone.
Myself, family, friends & several neighbors included.
A business cannot get that lost initial momentum (customers / rep) back, let alone several combined businesses (many of which were not/could not even open - at the initial opening) in what is a very poorly executed venue, weird biz formats & super edgy practices in a generally 55yr and older community = bad mix!

Starting over may not be a bad thing,! Ditch who ever thought the current platform had any chance of success and fall back to what has clearly worked in other villages/areas.
That might be a good start, but it would require some people acknowledging that there is a problem in the first place, and secondly, its not going to fix itself with time.

[rustyp]

I would rebuild the original Katie Belle's but every expert knows there is no money to be made on TVr's who order water. Out of curiosity what is the price of water in the market of Sawgrass ?

[Dotneko]

I would redo the interior. Make it a large restaurant with comfortable seating. Incorporate the existing pizza/burger/fish kitchens into one. A nice italian place would be a good counterpoint to McGradys. Sorry, the butcher shop and bakery arent going to move enough product to be successful. Leave the coffee place and have it open 6-11. Then open the restaurant 1130 on.

[JMintzer]

Serve food and beverages using real dishes, silverware and glasses. Cushions on the chairs. Soundproofing on the ceiling.

Since the seating area is a shared space (like a food court), who would be responsible for busing the tables, washing the dishes and glasses and restocking the vendors?

I can't comment on the chairs or sound proofing, since I haven't been there since they opened...

[retiredguy123]

I agree with improving the sound issue and upgrading the seating and atmosphere to make the environment more inviting. The bar is ridiculous. Serious drinkers don't want to sit in an uncomfortable seat, in the middle of a walk through area, drinking expensive booze from a plastic cup.

But, the basic problem is that it is a food court like in a regional mall. A mall attracts lots of people who want to shop, but they need to grab something to eat while they are shopping. They don't care about the food court atmosphere, food quality, or the high prices. They are looking for a fast, convenient meal, so they can continue to shop. This is not the place for a food court.

[Stu from NYC]

You are being too pragmatic in a situation where academics were used instead of real world common sense. The idea likely looked good on paper?

Perhaps they should have run this entire concept with someone with real restaurant experience. Sounds like the owners are a bunch of amateurs

[Bikehike]

Is that a fair question when The Market at Sawgrass Grove isn’t completely open yet? Do you mean after the complete experience has been taken in?

If I was shortsighted and only had what is there now, I think I would concentrate on discounting drinks more to attract larger crowds. Then I would integrate outside activities coordinated by a marketing group to perpetuate reoccurring interest in the area. Advertising specials in food, drinks and events could go a long way. Bring in a Bubba’s type place like in Leesburg for area fish specials and throw in a Gator Joes/Rusty Bucket (Tarpon Area). Maybe even do a Homosassa type Freezer Tiki Bar?

Keep the theme, but expand the tangents by going with a Floridian theme like a beach or citrus area or something. Wine tasting would certainly be in there with local wineries , cheeses etc. Where the heck does Scottland come into play?

Great ideas they should hire you as a consultant

[thelegges]

Since Sawgrass is developer owned, nothing is going to change. Most of sawgrass is open, except for butcher, and one other spot. Haven’t had coffee yet, we go way to late.
The outside venue looks like it will be months. Which doesn’t involve inside, except for the crowds filtering in to buy from their menu.
With all the rain everyday, entertainment has been spotty at best due to lighting.

Since the next venue, square, oval, round, will be in Middleton area, with a plethora of shopping, sawgrass is replacing the CC that is at every championship, except for HH.

That may change when next championship are built, or we may see a repeat of sawgrass
Either way the developer has the last say

[Rainger99]

Since Sawgrass is developer owned, nothing is going to change.

When you say developer owned, what do you mean? Does he own McGrady's and the Market? Or does he own the land and the buildings and rent them out to private people? Does the developer own the McDonalds and the Publix at Magnolia?

[Chi-Town]

I would wait to see the finished product.

[Papa_lecki]

They were trying something new. When it’s finished, it could be nice

The inside, is loud and bad acoustically, that can be fixed.
I also dont get the Scottish restaurant tied into a florida orange grove themed place. I guess the Scottish theme works with the rec center that’s golf themed, but they only share parking lot. I would have gone with a more florida themed restaurant.

[Stu from NYC]

Since Sawgrass is developer owned, nothing is going to change. Most of sawgrass is open, except for butcher, and one other spot. Haven’t had coffee yet, we go way to late.
The outside venue looks like it will be months. Which doesn’t involve inside, except for the crowds filtering in to buy from their menu.
With all the rain everyday, entertainment has been spotty at best due to lighting.

Since the next venue, square, oval, round, will be in Middleton area, with a plethora of shopping, sawgrass is replacing the CC that is at every championship, except for HH.

That may change when next championship are built, or we may see a repeat of sawgrass
Either way the developer has the last say

Here is the thing, like him or not he and his people are brilliant businessmen. If this concept does not work he will not continue to lose money but will make changes in order to bring it into profitability.

[tophcfa]

Here is the thing, like him or not he and his people are brilliant businessmen. If this concept does not work he will not continue to lose money but will make changes in order to bring it into profitability.

Does the crystal ball show a tear down and replacement with high rise apartments?

[Mrs.Guy]

Great ideas they should hire you as a consultant

:undecided: Yeah! How did they manage to make BILLION$ without him? :rolleyes:

[Kelevision]

When you say developer owned, what do you mean? Does he own McGrady's and the Market? Or does he own the land and the buildings and rent them out to private people? Does the developer own the McDonalds and the Publix at Magnolia?

The Villages runs several restaurants here. McGrady’s is one. Others are Fenney Grill, the bars at Sawgrass and entertainment ( but not the restaurants inside sawgrass, those are leased out) they also run Lazy Mac’s and Tierra Del Sol.

[Kelevision]

Here is the thing, like him or not he and his people are brilliant businessmen. If this concept does not work he will not continue to lose money but will make changes in order to bring it into profitability.

Who’s HE?!? The developers are SHE’S now!

[hosegooseman]

When you say developer owned, what do you mean? Does he own McGrady's and the Market? Or does he own the land and the buildings and rent them out to private people? Does the developer own the McDonalds and the Publix at Magnolia?

Developer owns and as far as I recall also operates McGrady’s. Owns Sawgrass building and rents to tenants there. Most importantly he definitely owns all the land.

[Cmacnair@hotmail.com]

Install sound baffles, there are too many hard surfaces and nothing to absorb the sound it’s terrible. Adjust some of the prices on your food, except cash and give change as my money says it’s good for all legal tender. Improve the food and what it served on.

[HeleneGB]

Lower prices and sound level.

[hosegooseman]

There are a lot of complaints about The Market at Sawgrass Grove.

If you owned it and could make any changes, what would you do?

Definitely better offering from food vendors. By that I mean better portions and pricing. No matter how the economy is today, there’s no reason to only have $15+ selections for a single serving of burgers, pizza or really small amount of calamari. If the claim is superior quality, my opinion is then lower a bit, including the prices.

Although probably late now, bring different owners to the concepts. When the same group operates the pizza, burger and seafood places (pretty much every main food area there), the same philosophy, operational concepts and strategies are just going to be the same, with a different menu.

A successful food hall, like Plant Street Market in Winter Garden (similar concept), is a collection of different ideas and visions from multiple backgrounds and goals.

Demo kitchen? Who is going to do the demo? For how many people? Are these private classes? You’ll have to run a demo every other hour to impact as many residents possible, if that’s the goal. Seems like the addition of more food offerings, will be a better use of space.

Local butcher? Where’s the beef? How long is needed to get that going?

[Retwarrior]

We felt the same way. Walked in once, looked at options and prices and walked out. Seen no reason to return. I would definitely get rid of the uncomfortable seating. The noise is there felt
Like I was in a mall food court filled with noisy teenagers. We waited a long time for that place to open and are very disappointed. Didn’t realize that half the area was going to be a pro shop.

[allsport]

Correct. It is always easy to complain. Much harder to offer helpful suggestions. We will see how many people have useful suggestions.

I managed a rather large staff and told them all the time that I was always open for ideas and changes but not complaints without solutions. "If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem."

[thelegges]

When you say developer owned, what do you mean? Does he own McGrady's and the Market? Or does he own the land and the buildings and rent them out to private people? Does the developer own the McDonalds and the Publix at Magnolia?

Yes McGrady’s and yes, market building, are developer owned. Yes, on any land within TV.
Early on The developer ran many restaurants in TV, including KB’s. As times have changed they started leasing out most.

The market is leased to the businesses, one person has the pizza, and burger place. Village grown is the developer, as is the pro shop. I am guessing the “Kitchen demo” is the developer also, which may or may not rent out its space for classes. Bakery, coffee and the (butcher, which has yet to open) are individual’s.

[Mulliganguy]

Let those that like it the way it is enjoy it the way it is PERIOD!!

[Travelhunter123]

Let those that like it the way it is enjoy it the way it is PERIOD!!

It’s fun to go to on occasion
I would change the menu at the pub
Few selections

[maistocars]

I like 3 of the food places in there and also like McGrady's. What they need is to have that entertainment venue to open. Unreal they haven't opened that up yet.

[midiwiz]

There are a lot of complaints about The Market at Sawgrass Grove.

If you owned it and could make any changes, what would you do?


Ok stop the Costco campaign - they are one of my accounts - I asked and there are NO plans to come to TV for the next 3-4 years. and that was accompanied by a laugh. as in are you serious. so stop asking LOL

on to the main topic, changes to the market -

Cash is king - so standard methods of payment are madatory
change the options - less is more, i would reduce the number of food 'huts' and keep some items -

market - gone - it's a waste and sham
coffee shop - keep change location and place it in the market area - offering comfortable seating
speaking of seating all the high stools can find a dumptster - who's idea was it to sit people on totally uncomfortable chairs - the idea is to keep people there not get rid of them (a sign that the "current owner" is clueless)

Burgers - keep I'm hearing they aren't all too bad, maybe focusing the employees in one direction will make it better.
Fish - gone - too far overpriced to make any sense
Bar - price changes and better drink options. They don't even have a cocktail menu.... shame however glad to see PBR LOL
dessert - bye bye.

bet you're wondering what to do with all the extra space? make things larger - let the pub take on dinner and other business. The Market should be looked at as a different venue yet familiar.

Before I forget - sound baffles. who the heck thought none was a good idea - one person talks and no one can hear anything.

that's just the initial part. There's more but it's a start here, and then you make more changes.

[Larchap49]

There are a lot of complaints about The Market at Sawgrass Grove.

If you owned it and could make any changes, what would you do?

Lower the rent so a business does not have to overprice everything. This is not Disney. Disposable plates and flatware of better quality. Sound deadening. Definitely the food quality has to improve. Stop stealing the customers money, return the change owed or round down and except the loss because that practice is losing customers which is the result of stealing their money. Increase parking.

[Ashokan]

My wife and I went in to the food court this weekend, and walked out inn10 minutes. TOO LOUD! Worst acoustics for any food court I've ever been in. Also, it lacked any feeling of comfort. Would never eat there.
What the owners will never know is how many people avoid the place because of its poor design.

[GmaLisaG]

Keep out all the complainers? The developer always has a bigger plan.. so when Eastport opens I'm sure all of these complaints about Sawgrass will be forgotten. Life is too short ❣️

[CosmicTrucker]

More up close golf car parking. A covered walkway to the parking area. Delivery options for all food options.

[Larchap49]

I managed a rather large staff and told them all the time that I was always open for ideas and changes but not complaints without solutions. "If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem."

I worked for a boss like you. My job was to inform you what displeased your patrons not to solve your problems. If that was my job I would either be making a lot more money or it would be my business.

[dyendell]

There are a lot of complaints about The Market at Sawgrass Grove.

If you owned it and could make any changes, what would you do?

Need to add fabric that absorbs sound: carpet, cloth seating, cloth on ceilings, drapes, sound panels on walls, etc. Lower prices. No inside entertainment. Cheap liquor.

[villager7591]

You nailed it.

[rrtjp]

i would put it in the new pet free village.

lol

[BlueStarAirlines]

I still fly a lot for work and unfortunately had a few hours to kill in Newark (shudder). Sawgrass reminds me of that airport. In the middle of all the gates there are restaurants and bars with people walking all around you. Its loud and noisy, sometimes you are bumped by those passing behind you, and it just has that "food court" vibe to it.

Others have mentioned the need for sound deadening, which is critical. I think the main issue is the same as Newark....at normal capacity it would be just too busy of a place. Even a crowded restaurant is tolerable because once the adjoining tables are seated the only people walking by you are the employees. At Sawgrass its a constant. I think they need to somehow create a separation from places where you eat from where people walk. Maybe a half wall or a wood screener (11 Stunning Room Dividers that Prove Open Concept is Overrated | Wood room divider, Wood slat wall, Room partition designs (https://www.pinterest.com/pin/31243791150522889/) ).

I also think they need to settle on the purpose of Sawgrass. Right now its a proshop, a mini vegetable shop, and a place to eat and drink. If they all have to remain, wall off the Proshop and Grow with a separate entrance. Make the bar larger with more seating. As others have mentioned better seats.

[asiebel]

Put in more low top seating and comfortable chairs! Charge less to rent spaces so prices are not so high! The whole area seems cramped!

[BostonRich]

I would rebuild the original Katie Belle's but every expert knows there is no money to be made on TVr's who order water. Out of curiosity what is the price of water in the market of Sawgrass ?

I think you figured it out. These people are very smart. They purposely made it uncomfortable exactly so people won't turn it into another Katie Belles's and hang there all day.

[rrtjp]

Maybe none...I think the mistake was that it opened for business before it was ready. A lot of the complaints seem to be attributable to trying to do too much, too soon.
Can’t wait to see the prices at the Butcher when they open. Wonder if you will pay more there if you use a charge card or if they will be rounding up your bill if you pay with cash or if they will accept cash at all?
The wife and I were just there the other day around 1230 and the place looked like a ghost town, I think I saw maybe 6 people there milling around.
I personally was hoping for more out of Sawgrass, since it is only 1/2 a mile away from us I thought it would be our go to place for food & entertainment. As it stands right now it’s a **** poor attempt of a food court. Great idea but poor execution.
Maybe it did open too soon? Maybe in time it will get better, I’m hoping the latter.

[Stu from NYC]

Wonder if anyone working for the Developer will actually read this thread

[BostonRich]

Maybe in time it will get better . . .

Things will probably change once the entertainment starts.

[Bitsee]

We were in and out of there in less than 15 minutes...Boring !

I would enjoy seeing a more carnival type atmosphere.
Outdoor shooting gallery and a bowling game where you could win prizes. There could be a sunhat sales stand where you could get your name embroidered on your hat as well....remember that from the county fairs years ago ?
Then there should be a fresh fruit and vegetable market stand like the Saturday Brownwood market where prices are far more reasonable with fresher goods.
I would also incorporate a large beverage bar where you pick and pour your own drink(s) and next to that would be a Danish and donut extravaganza to choose from !
Very similar to an upscale foodmart where you serve yourself more or less.
A build your own pizza palace in there would be great also.
And on the weekend evenings I would contract stand up comic's and other likewise entertainers for some laughs.
If you desire music you can go to the squares for that.
People want to have big fun and entertain thier family and visitors when they come down to The Villages, not sip on a $5 cup of coffee and buy a $45 tee shirt,
No Thank's to that.

My votes the Carnival Concept for that place, it could be wildly
popular !

[PugMom]

That sounds great, however, I was thinking demolish it and start over. Think: better facilities, better food, reasonable pricing, and pay options that serve patrons needs or desires.
I don't expect it will improve with time. If enough people tolerate the prices and practices, even though they don't like it, then the business has no motivation to change.

i agree. it should be fashioned as a town square, albeit a smaller one, but on the other hand, it needs time to grow. nothing is perfect overnite. let's see what happens before we tear it down

[UpNorth]

Let Market of Marion come in and take it over...;)

[Ktygrett]

:BigApplause::BigApplause:We were in and out of there in less than 15 minutes...Boring !

I would enjoy seeing a more carnival type atmosphere.
Outdoor shooting gallery and a bowling game where you could win prizes. There could be a sunhat sales stand where you could get your name embroidered on your hat as well....remember that from the county fairs years ago ?
Then there should be a fresh fruit and vegetable market stand like the Saturday Brownwood market where prices are far more reasonable with fresher goods.
I would also incorporate a large beverage bar where you pick and pour your own drink(s) and next to that would be a Danish and donut extravaganza to choose from !
Very similar to an upscale foodmart where you serve yourself more or less.
A build your own pizza palace in there would be great also.
And on the weekend evenings I would contract stand up comic's and other likewise entertainers for some laughs.
If you desire music you can go to the squares for that.
People want to have big fun and entertain thier family and visitors when they come down to The Villages, not sip on a $5 cup of coffee and buy a $45 tee shirt,
No Thank's to that.

My votes the Carnival Concept for that place, it could be wildly
popular !

[loweglor]

I have not experienced Sawgrass yet but have seen the video and talked to friends who have been there. The first thing I heard about was the concessions who are change free. You don't get change back???? Is that even legal? It certainly isn't ethical. That was followed up by how high the prices are. Did I hear a $5 cup of coffee? And the noise!!!! My friends said you couldn't hear yourself think. Well, now I have absolutely no interest in going there which is a shame because I was really looking forward to it. Is there something wrong with business management in The Villages??? They couldn't keep Katie Belle's open, not profitable. They couldn't keep the Hacienda restaurant open, not profitable. Now Sawgrass. Also, businesses seem to come and go here faster than they should. Is the developer that incompetent in business management or just that greedy?

[John Mayes]

Yes McGrady’s and yes, market building, are developer owned. Yes, on any land within TV.
Early on The developer ran many restaurants in TV, including KB’s. As times have changed they started leasing out most.

The market is leased to the businesses, one person has the pizza, and burger place. Village grown is the developer, as is the pro shop. I am guessing the “Kitchen demo” is the developer also, which may or may not rent out its space for classes. Bakery, coffee and the (butcher, which has yet to open) are individual’s.

Frenchy’s Pizza, Willy’s Burgers, Little Fin Fish and the Butcher Shop are all leased and operated by the same group from Orlando. They have similar setups in and around Orlando.

[Fltpkr]

There are a lot of complaints about The Market at Sawgrass Grove.

If you owned it and could make any changes, what would you do?

Great question. The responses you get may be another matter. We don’t return to our home in TV until October, so we look forward to visiting Sawgrass and seeing for ourselves. Long distance, we see the problems that are mentioned as eventually being resolved. Neither the Developer nor the business owners are stupid. They will eventually recognize the problems and adjust. If they don’t, the businesses will be replaced by those that do. The location is simply too attractive to be ignored by savvy businesses. Also, keep in mind that the gathering area is still not complete, the outdoor bars are not open and the entertainment has not started. Sawgrass is clearly a work in progress. We are eager to visit Sawgrass and check it out.

[Worldseries27]

there are a lot of complaints about the market at sawgrass grove.

If you owned it and could make any changes, what would you do?
how about all villagers with id get 15% discount for themselves and their entourage

[Sherry8bal]

Never been there and don't even know where the heck it is, so I don't care.

[Stu from NYC]

I have not experienced Sawgrass yet but have seen the video and talked to friends who have been there. The first thing I heard about was the concessions who are change free. You don't get change back???? Is that even legal? It certainly isn't ethical. That was followed up by how high the prices are. Did I hear a $5 cup of coffee? And the noise!!!! My friends said you couldn't hear yourself think. Well, now I have absolutely no interest in going there which is a shame because I was really looking forward to it. Is there something wrong with business management in The Villages??? They couldn't keep Katie Belle's open, not profitable. They couldn't keep the Hacienda restaurant open, not profitable. Now Sawgrass. Also, businesses seem to come and go here faster than they should. Is the developer that incompetent in business management or just that greedy?

The Developer and family built this place and have become Billionaires so do not think you can call them incompetent at all. They are in business and looking to maximize their profitability. If the prices are too high or rent too high at some point they will be adjustments made

[PilotGuy9853]

For my part the price is the main thing. I know the stores in there are all independent and probably set their own price but it is just too expensive. As one poster said, you are getting what is basically fast food at the price point of a nice sit down restaurant.

[thelegges]

Wonder if anyone working for the Developer will actually read this thread

No, why would they read or participate in a bash session. They have tenets, as long as they pay rent, there are no problems. Developer successfully has run this place along time.
It takes years for venues from start to finish. Supply chain has changed their process, and May for years to come,

I truly believe Jennifer was very happy and excited how Sawgrass came together. The area fits very well for clean up of spilled food and drink.

The team picked out the interior decor, furniture, during their vmail was very happy as it was coming together. As far as the high top, they are in every bar, and nobody seems to mind using those. I agree the chairs would work better in a ice cream shop, but once the venue opens up outside how Many will mill around inside.

Cost is not in my top 5 issues if the food is good. But we do frequent Disney springs, Tampa and Orlando for restaurants and none of them are ever cheap

[Laurawilcox]

My husband and I have eaten there several times. We split what we eat so the prices haven’t been an issue. The burger and pizza were fine.

We enjoy popping in for Boston lettuce at the Villages Grown as well.

We have tried several items at Darlin’s, I like the $4 cookies and ice cream. Husband enjoys the Key Lime Pie.

I expect to the entertainment starts to be more of an excuse for people to be here and we look forward to the building have a more buzz.

We are also very grateful to have an option with those sorts of different items being very close to home and would be very disappointed to have it close or become a golf shop so we intend to continue to support it.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

That sounds great, however, I was thinking demolish it and start over. Think: better facilities, better food, reasonable pricing, and pay options that serve patrons needs or desires.
I don't expect it will improve with time. If enough people tolerate the prices and practices, even though they don't like it, then the business has no motivation to change.

I agree. Demolish it and build a real town square.

[MSGirl]

There are a lot of complaints about The Market at Sawgrass Grove.

If you owned it and could make any changes, what would you do?

I think pricing needs to be in line with other restaurants/bars in The Villages. In order to do this, rents should also be in line with other retail facilities. I’m not impressed with the pro shop, as it appears to have limited product.

[richdell]

There are a lot of complaints about The Market at Sawgrass Grove.

If you owned it and could make any changes, what would you do?

Fix the accoustics. If it's loud now, imagine what it will be like when the band is playing outside. Some posters said to have plates and silverware. I disagree. It's a glorified food court. They need to train the workers to cook the food correctly and charge reasonable prices for food court food.

Nothing wrong with a food court. When I worked in Indianapolis, I regularly had lunch in the City Market. Lots of food stalls, demo kitchen, a bar, a barbershop, other shops. They accepted credit cards or cash (and gave change). Usually it was hard to find seats, but there were benches outside or I would bring the food back to work.

:spoken:

[HRDave]

Never have so many,
whined so much about so little.

You’ll get a real Town Square when Eastport becomes reality in 2024-25.

Y’all better be hoping that inflation doesn’t destroy all of the fun & food you’re having right now. Be happy with what you have. 😎

[rrtjp]

Is that a fair question when The Market at Sawgrass Grove isn’t completely open yet? Do you mean after the complete experience has been taken in?

If I was shortsighted and only had what is there now, I think I would concentrate on discounting drinks more to attract larger crowds. Then I would integrate outside activities coordinated by a marketing group to perpetuate reoccurring interest in the area. Advertising specials in food, drinks and events could go a long way. Bring in a Bubba’s type place like in Leesburg for area fish specials and throw in a Gator Joes/Rusty Bucket (Tarpon Area). Maybe even do a Homosassa type Freezer Tiki Bar?

Keep the theme, but expand the tangents by going with a Floridian theme like a beach or citrus area or something. Wine tasting would certainly be in there with local wineries , cheeses etc. Where the heck does Scottland come into play?

Like your ideas

[rrtjp]

>>If you owned it and could make any changes, what would you do?<<

wouldn't this be like trying to pour the milk back in the glass after its spilled on the floor?

The reality of Sawgrass is a big let down for nearly everyone that has gone.
Myself, family, friends & several neighbors included.
A business cannot get that lost initial momentum (customers / rep) back, let alone several combined businesses (many of which were not/could not even open - at the initial opening) in what is a very poorly executed venue, weird biz formats & super edgy practices in a generally 55yr and older community = bad mix!

Starting over may not be a bad thing,! Ditch who ever thought the current platform had any chance of success and fall back to what has clearly worked in other villages/areas.
That might be a good start, but it would require some people acknowledging that there is a problem in the first place, and secondly, its not going to fix itself with time.
Agree
You never get a second chance of making a first good impression

[jimkerr]

I wouldn’t do anything different if I were the developer. The place hasn’t even opened completely and people are trashing it.

I have some complaints about the owner of the restaurants inside. Those are his issues though and not The Villages fault. Things such as No change being given, kiddie size drink cups, not being able to order a pizza the way you want it, expensive lobster rolls that hardly have any lobster…. Those are all complaints for that VO company that owns all of those restaurants inside Sawgrass. (Not Darlins, the coffee place or the bar)

[rsmurano]

Lower the prices. I can go to Brownwood for happy hour and get $3 well drinks, can’t at sawgrass. The ice cream place should be replaced with another scooples. I can get a hot fudge at scooples for about the same price as a 2 scoop ice cream in a cup at sawgrass.
I think all all the businesses inside of sawgrass should be replaced with a similar successful business from the Brownwood or sumter sq.
Same goes for McGrady’s.

[Dotneko]

We were in and out of there in less than 15 minutes...Boring !

I would enjoy seeing a more carnival type atmosphere.
Outdoor shooting gallery and a bowling game where you could win prizes. There could be a sunhat sales stand where you could get your name embroidered on your hat as well....remember that from the county fairs years ago ?
Then there should be a fresh fruit and vegetable market stand like the Saturday Brownwood market where prices are far more reasonable with fresher goods.
I would also incorporate a large beverage bar where you pick and pour your own drink(s) and next to that would be a Danish and donut extravaganza to choose from !
Very similar to an upscale foodmart where you serve yourself more or less.
A build your own pizza palace in there would be great also.
And on the weekend evenings I would contract stand up comic's and other likewise entertainers for some laughs.
If you desire music you can go to the squares for that.
People want to have big fun and entertain thier family and visitors when they come down to The Villages, not sip on a $5 cup of coffee and buy a $45 tee shirt,
No Thank's to that.

My votes the Carnival Concept for that place, it could be wildly
popular !

Love it!!! Skeeball, minigolf. I would be up there every night! The putting course right now needs windmills lol.

[SusanKD]

The noise level is terrible. The food prices seem higher then the squares.

[Djean1981]

Love it!!! Skeeball, minigolf. I would be up there every night! The putting course right now needs windmills lol.
Yes, skeeball!! - with tickets for prizes. A Dave and Busters type venue would be fun. Shooting arcades, video games, escape rooms, etc!!

[Stu from NYC]

I agree. Demolish it and build a real town square.

Wonder why this did not become the fourth town square?

[Stu from NYC]

No, why would they read or participate in a bash session. They have tenets, as long as they pay rent, there are no problems. Developer successfully has run this place along time.
It takes years for venues from start to finish. Supply chain has changed their process, and May for years to come,

I truly believe Jennifer was very happy and excited how Sawgrass came together. The area fits very well for clean up of spilled food and drink.

The team picked out the interior decor, furniture, during their vmail was very happy as it was coming together. As far as the high top, they are in every bar, and nobody seems to mind using those. I agree the chairs would work better in a ice cream shop, but once the venue opens up outside how Many will mill around inside.

Cost is not in my top 5 issues if the food is good. But we do frequent Disney springs, Tampa and Orlando for restaurants and none of them are ever cheap

If I owned the place would want to have feedback from customers both good and bad.

[rogerrice60]

That sounds great, however, I was thinking demolish it and start over. Think: better facilities, better food, reasonable pricing, and pay options that serve patrons needs or desires.
I don't expect it will improve with time. If enough people tolerate the prices and practices, even though they don't like it, then the business has no motivation to change.
Totally agree with your analysis!
We are very disappointed with this "downsized " Square!!
Prices are high & very little to do there!

[rogerrice60]

Totally agree with your analysis!
We are very disappointed with this "downsized " Square!
Prices are high & very little to do there!

[rogerrice60]

>>If you owned it and could make any changes, what would you do?<<

wouldn't this be like trying to pour the milk back in the glass after its spilled on the floor?

The reality of Sawgrass is a big let down for nearly everyone that has gone.
Myself, family, friends & several neighbors included.
A business cannot get that lost initial momentum (customers / rep) back, let alone several combined businesses (many of which were not/could not even open - at the initial opening) in what is a very poorly executed venue, weird biz formats & super edgy practices in a generally 55yr and older community = bad mix!

Starting over may not be a bad thing,! Ditch who ever thought the current platform had any chance of success and fall back to what has clearly worked in other villages/areas.
That might be a good start, but it would require some people acknowledging that there is a problem in the first place, and secondly, its not going to fix itself with time.
Excellent reply

[Villages Kahuna]

I’ve heard the following complaints which have lead to my decision to never visit there. Fix the following and maybe I’ll reconsider.

— Inside the noise is painfully loud.
—Prices are outrageously high

[Bogie Shooter]

Wonder why this did not become the fourth town square?

Totally agree with your analysis!
We are very disappointed with this "downsized " Square!!
Prices are high & very little to do there!

Announced September 2021

The Villages has christened its newest town center with a nod to the Morse family’s Michigan roots.

The new town center will be known as Eastport and will include The Villages’ well-known mix of shopping, dining and entertainment. Eastport will be located north of Central Parkway (County Road 470) and east of Marsh Bend Trail.

[Laker14]

I’ve heard the following complaints which have lead to my decision to never visit there. Fix the following and maybe I’ll reconsider.

— Inside the noise is painfully loud.
—Prices are outrageously high

I'll check it out at some point after I return in October. Maybe my expectations will be so low I'll be pleasantly surprised.
I have to see it for myself, even if only briefly. It sounds like a magnificent assemblage of things I don't care for; crowds, noise, uncomfortable seating, along with crummy food at high prices.
What's not to love?

[Mrs.Guy]

Announced September 2021

The Villages has christened its newest town center with a nod to the Morse family’s Michigan roots.

The new town center will be known as Eastport and will include The Villages’ well-known mix of shopping, dining and entertainment. Eastport will be located north of Central Parkway (County Road 470) and east of Marsh Bend Trail.

:coolsmiley: There you go..... putting facts in your replies. What's next, reading the entire thread before posting? :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Kelevision]

I agree. Demolish it and build a real town square.

This was never meant to be a town square. It was meant to be an alternate to a Country Club.

[Worldseries27]

announced september 2021

the villages has christened its newest town center with a nod to the morse family’s michigan roots.

The new town center will be known as eastport and will include the villages’ well-known mix of shopping, dining and entertainment. Eastport will be located north of central parkway (county road 470) and east of marsh bend trail.
if i remember right, eastport is about 2 circles from the new bexley trail/ sawgrass grove area which may have a full town square. If this is accurate then sg is merely a villages version of a 7/11

[Tom359]

Perhaps they should have run this entire concept with someone with real restaurant experience. Sounds like the owners are a bunch of amateurs

This just makes no sense. If you watch the progress videos, most of the vendors have successful restaurants in Orlando and are trying to make them work here in the villages. You can disagree with the pricing/quality, but not the experience of the vendors.

[kkingston57]

Went there one time. Looked like it was busy. This was around 2:00 on a weekday. 1st impression was that it looked like a mall's food court with an adjacent golf shop. Never seen a set up like this before. Outdoor music had not started yet. To answer posters ? I do feel that there is not anyway that this is going to be a go for the businesses inside this "food court". When was the last time anybody went out and said lets hang out the "food court". No major tenant and one regular service restaurant there.

[BigSteph]

I just think a lot of Villagers are middle-class folks looking for a reasonable meal at a reasonable price.

I would turn the Market-side of Saw Grass into an S&K/Morrison Cafeteria and watch the Villagers on a fixed income stack up at 3pm for early dinner and lines continue until early evening.

I suspect for every person who frequents Saw Grass, there is another 5 who could be captured with more moderate prices. I suspect a vegetable plate with a piece of garlic bread, and a nice berry cobbler would sell out every night for most retirement locations. Here though, we all have to be younger than we are, and wealthier than we are -- to be otherwise is to be in the uncool kids club.

[Worldseries27]

i just think a lot of villagers are middle-class folks looking for a reasonable meal at a reasonable price.

I would turn the market-side of saw grass into an s&k/morrison cafeteria and watch the villagers on a fixed income stack up at 3pm for early dinner and lines continue until early evening.

I suspect for every person who frequents saw grass, there is another 5 who could be captured with more moderate prices. I suspect a vegetable plate with a piece of garlic bread, and a nice berry cobbler would sell out every night for most retirement locations. Here though, we all have to be younger than we are, and wealthier than we are -- to be otherwise is to be in the uncool kids club.
agree with your op.
If they want to salvage sg rep they need for village management and vendors to rework their leases so that all parties, mgmt,vendors and us can meet at an agreeable pricing matrix to make this enterprise a lot more appealing and successful for all concerned

[JoMar]

I have not experienced Sawgrass yet but have seen the video and talked to friends who have been there. The first thing I heard about was the concessions who are change free. You don't get change back???? Is that even legal? It certainly isn't ethical. That was followed up by how high the prices are. Did I hear a $5 cup of coffee? And the noise!!!! My friends said you couldn't hear yourself think. Well, now I have absolutely no interest in going there which is a shame because I was really looking forward to it. Is there something wrong with business management in The Villages??? They couldn't keep Katie Belle's open, not profitable. They couldn't keep the Hacienda restaurant open, not profitable. Now Sawgrass. Also, businesses seem to come and go here faster than they should. Is the developer that incompetent in business management or just that greedy?

Since the developer doesn't own or run the business's (with few exceptions) and is making a good living I submit he is good at business management. :)

[Barborv]

I would have liked to see it done on the order of a mini food mall with restaurants with inside (the restaurant) seating, The sweet shop could have been like the French workshop (They're in Long Island NY) Fabulous with quaint tables, a good ice cream parlor, etc. But all behind a door of each business. Not a food court! And who in the heck buying meat there at the butcher?

[Stu from NYC]

This just makes no sense. If you watch the progress videos, most of the vendors have successful restaurants in Orlando and are trying to make them work here in the villages. You can disagree with the pricing/quality, but not the experience of the vendors.

Only problem with that logic is what they have done in Orlando translate into running a successful business here?

From reading the comments from people who have gone there not so sure. Time will tell and we will give them a visit once the place is finished.

[SeaCros]

Nothing. It’s a place that is so different from what is used to in TVLG so current residents have nothing but bad feelings about anything NEW. The vision of TVLG seems like it wants to evolve and do different things. Future brings change and many can’t seem to handle it.
“If you don’t like the music, change the station “

[bark4me]

I can't agree more

[dewilson58]

I can't agree more

108 posts ahead you..................:shrug:

[Altavia]

108 posts ahead you..................:shrug:

Has anytime suggested to turn it into an indoor Pickleball facility 😜

[shueburruss]

Nothing. It’s a place that is so different from what is used to in TVLG so current residents have nothing but bad feelings about anything NEW. The vision of TVLG seems like it wants to evolve and do different things. Future brings change and many can’t seem to handle it.
“If you don’t like the music, change the station “
I agree, most people as they age don’t take well to change.
The Sawgrass concept is new for The Villages. I think when snow birds return and when the music stage opens business will thrive at Sawgrass.
If not, changes will happen.
It seems every time a new business opens in The Villages the reaction is the same, “prices too high, too noisy, won’t go back, place will never make it”. And the majority of those places are still in business.
Time will tell for Sawgrass. I am looking forward to trying something new when we return next month.

[TrapX]

Developer sells houses because of the amenities. House sales are where the huge profits come from. Developer needs to look at the big picture. Make sawgrass into somewhere people really want to go to. That draws people here to buy those thousands of new houses.
Fix the acoustics, seating, etc. That's easy. Developer should give something back to all the residents and fix the high prices with providing free rent.
An amenity like Sawgrass should be something that attracts home buyers. It's not doing that. Quite the opposite.

[retiredguy123]

I agree, most people as they age don’t take well to change.
The Sawgrass concept is new for The Villages. I think when snow birds return and when the music stage opens business will thrive at Sawgrass.
If not, changes will happen.
It seems every time a new business opens in The Villages the reaction is the same, “prices too high, too noisy, won’t go back, place will never make it”. And the majority of those places are still in business.
Time will tell for Sawgrass. I am looking forward to trying something new when we return next month.
So, not to worry. All is good. Whew!

[Axemansa]

The marketplace space reminds me of the cruise ship layout on Norwegian Cruise Lines (NCL). This would be a good benchmark for the developers if the current offerings don’t work out. Think smaller, intimate restaurants with a variety of meals. On NCL, they have a dedicated steakhouse, Japanese Teppanyaki, French cuisine and pub food. Also, the comedy venues on the ships are always packed with standing room only. All of these ideas, are aligned to making the venue a desired entertainment destination rather that a market to acquire goods and services which are available in the strip stores (Publix grocery, etc.)

[thelegges]

Developer sells houses because of the amenities. House sales are where the huge profits come from. Developer needs to look at the big picture. Make sawgrass into somewhere people really want to go to. That draws people here to buy those thousands of new houses.
Fix the acoustics, seating, etc. That's easy. Developer should give something back to all the residents and fix the high prices with providing free rent.
An amenity like Sawgrass should be something that attracts home buyers. It's not doing that. Quite the opposite.

We were number #27 for a lot in Richmond. No worries if Sawgrass is not attracting home buyers, the developer can’t keep up with the demand for homes now. As you age in place TV will become more clearer in its concepts

[gweisheipl]

Seems like COSTCO missed an opportunity as BJ’s appears to be thriving.

Ok stop the Costco campaign - they are one of my accounts - I asked and there are NO plans to come to TV for the next 3-4 years. and that was accompanied by a laugh. as in are you serious. so stop asking LOL

on to the main topic, changes to the market -

Cash is king - so standard methods of payment are madatory
change the options - less is more, i would reduce the number of food 'huts' and keep some items -

market - gone - it's a waste and sham
coffee shop - keep change location and place it in the market area - offering comfortable seating
speaking of seating all the high stools can find a dumptster - who's idea was it to sit people on totally uncomfortable chairs - the idea is to keep people there not get rid of them (a sign that the "current owner" is clueless)

Burgers - keep I'm hearing they aren't all too bad, maybe focusing the employees in one direction will make it better.
Fish - gone - too far overpriced to make any sense
Bar - price changes and better drink options. They don't even have a cocktail menu.... shame however glad to see PBR LOL
dessert - bye bye.

bet you're wondering what to do with all the extra space? make things larger - let the pub take on dinner and other business. The Market should be looked at as a different venue yet familiar.

Before I forget - sound baffles. who the heck thought none was a good idea - one person talks and no one can hear anything.

that's just the initial part. There's more but it's a start here, and then you make more changes.

[gweisheipl]

Once music starts, you won’t be able to get near the place. Wait and see! There sure are a boatload of old crotchety complainers here in TV.

Developer sells houses because of the amenities. House sales are where the huge profits come from. Developer needs to look at the big picture. Make sawgrass into somewhere people really want to go to. That draws people here to buy those thousands of new houses.
Fix the acoustics, seating, etc. That's easy. Developer should give something back to all the residents and fix the high prices with providing free rent.
An amenity like Sawgrass should be something that attracts home buyers. It's not doing that. Quite the opposite.

[JoBrower]

Its always easy to criticize. Opening new restaurants is not easy, especially in these times for many reasons.. In my opinion, Sawgrass market has a great future ahead of them and will offer our residents and visitors another great area for access to good food/bev, entertainment and other activities. Being new to this area (from St. Petersburg) I’ve seen restaurants come and go. This is a great concept and happy to have them here. Tampa has what they call Tampa Armature Works and is extremely successful. It took them awhile.

With the new communities being built around us hopefully will help them perfect the communities needs and help them stay in business. I love having this concept close to my village and particular happy about The Village Grown Market. Look forward to the outdoor entertainment!

I certainly agree with lowering their prices and they definitely have to do something with the acoustics- high noise level. I will continue to support them and stay positive for future improvements!

[Bogie Shooter]

Developer sells houses because of the amenities. House sales are where the huge profits come from. Developer needs to look at the big picture. Make sawgrass into somewhere people really want to go to. That draws people here to buy those thousands of new houses.
Fix the acoustics, seating, etc. That's easy. Developer should give something back to all the residents and fix the high prices with providing free rent.
An amenity like Sawgrass should be something that attracts home buyers. It's not doing that. Quite the opposite.

Lot of assumptions here, based on reading a handful of complainers on TOTV.

[CynthiaAnn]

They didn't build a "market", they built a food court. Yes, you have Villages Grown (overpriced) and will have a butcher shop (probably overpriced), but the rest is a food court.. with plastic cups and paper plates. Maybe they should have contracted with a Portillo's type place... good hot dogs, beef sandwiches, chicken and Italian, to run this place. I would go there for that!

[Stu from NYC]

Once music starts, you won’t be able to get near the place. Wait and see! There sure are a boatload of old crotchety complainers here in TV.

Could be but also possible people come listen for a set or two and than go elsewhere for dinner.

Time will tell.

[Tom M]

It seems that this is supposed to be something closer to Edna's than a town square. In that sense it may pick up when there is entertainment. Fix the indoor noise issue, and as vendors struggle to compete with their prices, bring in lower priced vendors.

[vintageogauge]

I don't recall Sawgrass ever being touted as a square. One thing for sure in about 2 months when most of the part timers are back prices, payment options, and seating are not going to be an issue as that place will be packed every day. It's a great asset for those of us that chose to live down here and we now look forward to the "REAL" square that they will be building even further south. In the mean time we'll keep Paddock Square going too.

[Babubhat]

Betting on a captive audience like Disney. Limited options golf cart accessible down there. Customers will determine their success or not.

[Graspher]

Since the seating area is a shared space (like a food court), who would be responsible for busing the tables, washing the dishes and glasses and restocking the vendors?

I can't comment on the chairs or sound proofing, since I haven't been there since they opened...

With respect to the busing - during our visit we did see a dedicated person cleaning the tables. All of those around us who were eating did shuttle their trash into a bin - just as we did - prior to leaving. I did not see any abandoned tables littered with packaging/utensils.

I can't say if the busing person was on alert waiting to clean tables as soon as they vacated or if the person walks the floor every so often to bus.

[coffeebean]

Wonder why this did not become the fourth town square?

Seems like there is not nearly the amount of land at Sawgrass that there is in the town squares. There isn't even enough parking at Sawgrass. We went there once and will not be going back.

[thelegges]

Wondering if those who complain about prices too high, was the same clientele that sat in KB’s with a glass of water for 3 hours:clap2:

[coffeebean]

Once music starts, you won’t be able to get near the place. Wait and see! There sure are a boatload of old crotchety complainers here in TV.

Wonder if the popular bands will play at Sawgrass. Johnny Wild and Rocky come to mind. Is there room for those type of crowds?

[Traveling lady]

Interesting question. I would start by suggesting that we don't even know if it's broken. The fact that some people have stated they didn't like it doesn't mean that it won't function eventually just the way the developer envisioned. Nobody will know how successful it will be until at least one snowbird season has come and gone. There may be plenty of people who will patronize it, and support it, just the way it is.

I'm not in the food services business, and I haven't even been to the place yet, but from what I've read on TOTV, I think they have to make a choice between inexpensive fast food delivery, or charging enough to allow them to serve food worth eating, on real plates, with real knives and forks and glasses. It reads to me as if they are charging a premium for the thrill of being in the facility, but not serving food that is worth the premium compared to the food and cost of going to a decent restaurant outside the bubble.
That might work at a sports venue, but I think the "thrill" of being in the Sawgrass facility will wear off very fast if the food and service isn't worth the cost.

You state that you have not been there yet. It’s very hard to give an opinion about something if you have not seen it personally. I have been there. I will never go back again it was a complete waste of time. Unlike the other squares it does not have a bunch of small shops that you can meander in and out of. It is just an oversized food court

[Bogie Shooter]

Betting on a captive audience like Disney. Limited options golf cart accessible down there. Customers will determine their success or not.

Have you been down there?

[Bogie Shooter]

Seems like there is not nearly the amount of land at Sawgrass that there is in the town squares. There isn't even enough parking at Sawgrass. We went there once and will not be going back.

Never?

[dewilson58]

Is there room for those type of crowds?

self regulating

:ho:

[Bogie Shooter]

Wonder if the popular bands will play at Sawgrass. Johnny Wild and Rocky come to mind. Is there room for those type of crowds?

Venue too small for the popular square bands. Doubt if Sawgrass was ever intended for those bands.
They will be playing at the new town square.

[John Mayes]

Betting on a captive audience like Disney. Limited options golf cart accessible down there. Customers will determine their success or not.

So, what is not golf cart accessible??? When’s the last time you were south of 44?

[Bogie Shooter]

You state that you have not been there yet. It’s very hard to give an opinion about something if you have not seen it personally. I have been there. I will never go back again it was a complete waste of time. Unlike the other squares it does not have a bunch of small shops that you can meander in and out of. It is just an oversized food court

It's not a town square, you can't make that comparison.

[John Mayes]

Seems like there is not nearly the amount of land at Sawgrass that there is in the town squares. There isn't even enough parking at Sawgrass. We went there once and will not be going back.

You should watch Don Wiley’s latest video that directly refutes those suppositions.

[JMintzer]

You should watch Don Wiley’s latest video that directly refutes those suppositions.

Having been there, the amount of parking (which is shared with the rec center and golf course) is much much smaller than any town square...

That side of the turnpike just didn't have enough land (where they built Sawgrass) to put in a full size town square. From Chitty Chatty down to St Catherine is a narrow swath of land, compared to west/south of the turnpike... Whomever said it was a new twist on a "Country Club" for the golf course (IMHO) is much more "on point"...

Now, when they continue development farther south, the tract of land widens and they may have land for another real town square, but it seems that they will be building the next one across the Bexley Bridge in Eastport...

That will be closer for many than Brownwood...

[John Mayes]

Having been there, the amount of parking (which is shared with the rec center and golf course) is much much smaller than any town square...

That side of the turnpike just didn't have enough land (where they built Sawgrass) to put in a full size town square. From Chitty Chatty down to St Catherine is a narrow swath of land, compared to west/south of the turnpike... Whomever said it was a new twist on a "Country Club" for the golf course (IMHO) is much more "on point"...

Now, when they continue development farther south, the tract of land widens and they may have land for another real town square, but it seems that they will be building the next one across the Bexley Bridge in Eastport...

That will be closer for many than Brownwood...

You’re correct, the 4th square will be in Eastport. Announced several months ago. Sawgrass was never planned as a square.

[dewilson58]

That side of the turnpike just didn't have enough land (where they built Sawgrass) to put in a full size town square. .

False.

Scale it out............there is plenty of land including and around Sawgrass to have a full size town square IF the developer wanted to have one in that location.

[Papa_lecki]

Regarding parking, the county/township building code dictates how many parking spots for a place. I.e. how many per tennis court being built, how many per square footage of building, etc.
it makes sense there’s less parking than LSL, brownwood…. There’s almost no retail space.
For example, a driving range requires one spot per hitting bay.
A restaurant requires 1 per 125 sq. ft. of gross leasable area, or 1 per 2.5 seats, whichever is greater, plus stacking lane requirements (Do the math on that for LSL).


Here’s the code - search for parking
Municode Library (https://library.municode.com/fl/sumter_county/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=COCO_CH13LADECO_ARTVGEDE ST_DIV3TETRCIACST_S13-520DEST)

[Bill14564]

You should watch Don Wiley’s latest video that directly refutes those suppositions.

Which video was that? I didn't hear any mention of parking in 115.

[Granville75]

������������������

[Keefelane66]

When it fails turn it into a church it will probably make more money.

[JMintzer]

False.

Scale it out............there is plenty of land including and around Sawgrass to have a full size town square IF the developer wanted to have one in that location.

I disagree...

It would serve a much smaller community since they would have to use land that was used for housing...

No room from Chitty Chatty to St Cathrine. Linden and Hawkins has a ton of wetlands. Cason Hammock has the golf course.

Where would you suggest they put it?

Maybe, it they used ALL of St Catherine, they could squeeze one in...

[Timothyimitchell]

Wonder if the popular bands will play at Sawgrass. Johnny Wild and Rocky come to mind. Is there room for those type of crowds?

They will have it. It may be limited, such as weekends, but it'll happen. Watch.

[nick demis]

Survey what the locals would like, gut it and start over.

[Sensei]

No COINS? Makes some folks upset..."no change, stealin' my money!" Clever vendors would set EVERY PRICE a whole dollar price which includes tax. No more "stealin' ".
Not impressed with the noisey venue either.

[dewilson58]

I disagree.....

As suggested, scale it.

In and around Sawgrass, North side of Meggison.........3,000 feet x 4,000 feet.
Plenty of room.

As an example, Brownwood is 2,000 feet x 3,000 feet
(44 to 44a and BVista to Powell)

[John Mayes]

Which video was that? I didn't hear any mention of parking in 115.

My bad…..it was not in the video but rather in his answer to some questions that were asked when he posted the link to #115 on TOTV. I think it’s post #29;

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/construction-update-115--i-wrong-9-2-2022-a-334937/index2.html#post2133487

[JMintzer]

As suggested, scale it.

In and around Sawgrass, North side of Meggison.........3,000 feet x 4,000 feet.
Plenty of room.

As an example, Brownwood is 2,000 feet x 3,000 feet
(44 to 44a and BVista to Powell)

You're ignoring the "obvious" amount of wetlands in that area. And the golf course...

Also, very close to Brownwood...

[dewilson58]

You're ignoring the "obvious" amount of wetlands in that area. And the golf course...

Also, very close to Brownwood...

Dude.................just stop it.

Your statement, "That side of the turnpike just didn't have enough land (where they built Sawgrass) to put in a full size town square. "

There was enough land.
I'm excluding the wetlands.
If they wanted a full size town square...............there was enough land.
Town Squares and Sawgrass are planned before housing, rec centers, putt-putt.
The golf course is across the street..............I said on the North side.

If you really care...........measure it..................or are you just arguing.

:loco::loco::loco:

[flsteve]

:laugh: "Yeah, I pretty much never sit by the pool anymore" - Marco Polo

I just glanced at your signature and immediately busted out laughing!!! That is the funniest quote I have heard in a very long time. Very funny!! :BigApplause:

[coffeebean]

Never?

Maybe one time to see the completed project. I found the noise level to be extremely bad and there weren’t many people there at the time. Hopefully that problem can be fixed.

[gymratt]

The butcher pulled out of the space. It is the same one as in Plant Street Market in Winter Garden, wife talked to them last week when she was at the Farmers Market, they said it is a no go for them.....

[vintageogauge]

The butcher pulled out of the space. It is the same one as in Plant Street Market in Winter Garden, wife talked to them last week when she was at the Farmers Market, they said it is a no go for them.....

The butcher that is going in there also owns the Fish and Burger carryouts next to his butcher shop. His equipment and coolers are already in place so I'm sure the lease was signed beforehand and he won't be breaking the lease as it would be very costly for him. I might add that the butcher shop will be a success in that area as will just about anything else that goes in there, residents will pay for the convenience of it.

[dwoodley1975]

I would include a brand-name restaurant. I would make an entrance on both sides. Instead of using the golf store as an entrance. Have reasonable prices for food. Complete the square in a timely manner. Relocate some of the restaurants. There is a lot of work that can be done to that place to make it work more efficiently.

[JMintzer]

Dude.................just stop it.

Your statement, "That side of the turnpike just didn't have enough land (where they built Sawgrass) to put in a full size town square. "

There was enough land.
I'm excluding the wetlands.
If they wanted a full size town square...............there was enough land.
Town Squares and Sawgrass are planned before housing, rec centers, putt-putt.
The golf course is across the street..............I said on the North side.

If you really care...........measure it..................or are you just arguing.

:loco::loco::loco:

You are correct. Sawgrass was planned long ago. NOT TO BE A TOWN SQUARE...

It was planned to be a twist on a Country Club. Hence, the pro shop within the market. Yes, the market, NOT the town square...

The new town square was planned to be across the new Bexley bridge, in Eastport. Plenty close to all points east of the turnpike and not too close to Brownwood... Also serving those to the north (Marsh Bend, Fenney, etc) and points to be built farther south...

Putting one in both places would be contrary to how they've placed them in the past. SS is far enough from Lake Sumter, which is far enough from Brownwood. Those between them have an easy ride to any of them, and are not too far from them either...

I'm in Osceola Hills (south, near 44). I'm closest to Brownwood (which is still 15-20 minutes and a half hour to Lake Sumter). SS is waaay too far (for me) to go by golf cart on a regular basis. The new Town square in Eastport will be 15-20 minutes from just about anywhere east/north of the Turnpike...

There is a method to their madness... Just because YOU insist there is room for a town square where YOU want it to be doesn't mean it is the right place for it to be...

So dude, you can stop "just arguing" any time...

[Keefelane66]

I just glanced at your signature and immediately busted out laughing!!! That is the funniest quote I have heard in a very long time. Very funny!! :BigApplause:
This may help you out
Yeah, I Pretty Much Never Sit By The Pool Anymore T-shirt (https://printerval.com/yeah-i-pretty-much-never-sit-by-the-pool-anymore-t-shirt-p5476336?spid=159668008&tr=&adgroupid=&campaignid=17446229893&gclid=Cj0KCQjwvZCZBhCiARIsAPXbajuUqMbgiwLBIfPQkYql TDH5_jZaO8Emo-rBAQh2yfjJzM5aLJSLkogaAtiYEALw_wcB)

[dewilson58]

There is a method to their madness... Just because YOU insist there is room for a town square where YOU want it to be doesn't mean it is the right place for it to be...

So dude, you can stop "just arguing" any time...

You try so hard to change the subject, throw crap on the wall and see if anything sticks.

I'm not insisting there is room, I'm just correcting your false statement that there was no room.
I don't care if Sawgrass is a Town Square or not..............that's not the topic.

I don't care about the next town square...................that's not the topic.

The topic is, you stated: "That side of the turnpike just didn't have enough land (where they built Sawgrass) to put in a full size town square. " And you are wrong.

I'm not arguing...............just highlighting your errors, which is quite fun and people are laughing.

:laugh:

[Dotneko]

Would you two just quit your 'whose is bigger' contest. Really, nobody cares.

[dewilson58]

Would you two just quit your 'whose is bigger' contest. Really, nobody cares.

The bigger what???

[Bogie Shooter]

:1rotfl::1rotfl:

[tophcfa]

1) Also serving those to the north (Marsh Bend, Fenney, etc)…

2) Putting one in both places would be contrary to how they've placed them in the past. SS is far enough from Lake Sumter, which is far enough from Brownwood.

Holly crap, statement number 1 completely blows my mind. Serving those to the north would be the greater Mulbury/Lopez and Historic District areas. The Marsh Bend/Fenney area is over an hour plus golf cart ride from those areas going due south at 20 MPH with no slow downs. The areas mentioned are the polar opposite of the north within the Villages????

Statement number two is also a head scratcher, we live between SS and LSL, 7 minutes to SS and 9 minutes to LSL, so placement would not be contrary to historic standards. Brownwood on the other hand is kind of off the beaten path, pretty far south from LSL, a solid half hour by golf cart with no slow downs.