Electric Car Charging

[Badger 2006]

If you live in a an apartment complex, and for example you are assigned two outside parking spaces, where exactly are you supposed to charge your electric car in the evening and overnight, so one is able to get to work the next day? Since we're supposed to be all electric in the near future, are charging stations to be mandatory at apartment lots and parking structures?

[DARFAP]

Near future? Not possible.

[Badger 2006]

Near future? Not possible.

2035 projected. Not as near to me, but 13 years to a 20 year old is just around the corner.

[Vermilion Villager]

If you live in a an apartment complex, and for example you are assigned two outside parking spaces, where exactly are you supposed to charge your electric car in the evening and overnight, so one is able to get to work the next day? Since we're supposed to be all electric in the near future, are charging stations to be mandatory at apartment lots and parking structures?
Do you personally live in an apartment? Your post was kind of vague on that part… there is only one apartment complex in the villages that I know of and I believe they have some plug-ins but I'm not 100% sure.
Installing electrical outlets in a parking lot is not that big of a deal. I would assume when there is more of a need they will do so.

[Papa_lecki]

If companies REALLY thought electric cars were a thing, 7-11 would have built a car charging station next to shooters world, not a gas station.

People complain about rent now, imagine if ever apartment needed charging infrastructure and the electricity to go with it.

[retiredguy123]

If you live in a an apartment complex, and for example you are assigned two outside parking spaces, where exactly are you supposed to charge your electric car in the evening and overnight, so one is able to get to work the next day? Since we're supposed to be all electric in the near future, are charging stations to be mandatory at apartment lots and parking structures?
This will be a huge problem. Most apartment complexes don't have assigned parking spaces, and couldn't enforce it without a lot of towing. Imagine if half the vehicles in a large complex were electric. How would you prevent someone with a gasoline vehicle from parking in a space with a charging outlet? I have lived in apartment complexes where, if you didn't get home by 10 PM, you had to park on the street about a block away.

[justjim]

Interesting topic with no current answer, however, someone somewhere will come up with a solution by 2035. Meanwhile…

[Stu from NYC]

Not practical to own unless you have your own dedicated charging station.

[n8xwb]

120 volt outlets do not provide the voltage/amperage necessary to charge an all electric vehicle overnight! My Chevy Volt takes about 12 hours of charging via 120 volts go from zero miles to 50miles.

[larbud]

Interesting topic with no current answer, however, someone somewhere will come up with a solution by 2035. Meanwhile…
By 2035 the mode of transport will camels/horse and buggy…

[Djean1981]

Shhh.. don't expose the matrix.

[villagetinker]

If you live in a an apartment complex, and for example you are assigned two outside parking spaces, where exactly are you supposed to charge your electric car in the evening and overnight, so one is able to get to work the next day? Since we're supposed to be all electric in the near future, are charging stations to be mandatory at apartment lots and parking structures?

Interesting problem, and something I had never thought about. I have not seen any apartment type housing that advertised electric vehicle charging, and certainly not 'dedicated' for a specific owner. Enforcement of parking for electric vehicles only in public spaces seems to be s lost cause, and i am not sure any better for assigned spaces (think about handicapped parking).
Possibly someone from California may have some insight into this potential problem.

OP, if you are looking to move into the villages or the surrounding area, you will need to specifically ask to see if there are any arrangements for electric charging and then the arrangement s if someone uses 'your' spot.

Good luck with your quest.

[Michael G.]

This is a great concern if you what to, or thinking about a EV when looking for future housing.

When the subject of driving/owning/charging a EV's comes up, I can't help but wondering how the cold states
up north are suppose depend on this type of propulsion on Vehicules in - 10 degrees. :22yikes:

[NoMoSno]

Imagine trying to evacuate FL during a hurricane in an EV. Hope there won't be power failures along the way.

[Stu from NYC]

This is a great concern if you what to, or thinking about a EV when looking for future housing.

When the subject of driving/owning/charging a EV's comes up, I can't help but wondering how the cold states
up north are suppose depend on this type of propulsion on Vehicules in - 10 degrees. :22yikes:

Would need your own garage

[Tvflguy]

By 2035 the mode of transport will camels/horse and buggy…

And THEY will be made in China too.

[Vermilion Villager]

Imagine trying to evacuate FL during a hurricane in an EV. Hope there won't be power failures along the way.
Ahh....hate to break this to you....gas pumps need electricity to operate. :welcome:

[fdpaq0580]

Ahh....hate to break this to you....gas pumps need electricity to operate. :welcome:

Old school hand pump the fuel from ground storage into the glass pump cylinder then gravity feed your car. Or have the storage tanks above ground and straight gravity feed to car.
While I like the image of clean electric vehicles, they are not yet truly that clean or green. Someday, yes, but not yet.

[La lamy]

Apartment buildings are definitely a big issue. I lived in a condominium which was not equipped to provide electric recharging, I can only imagine how unwilling apartment building owners will be to set this up.

[spinner1001]

Ahh....hate to break this to you....gas pumps need electricity to operate. :welcome:

Florida law requires certain gas stations to have a generator to power their pumps.

Statutes & Constitution
:View Statutes
:

Online Sunshine (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0500-0599/0526/Sections/0526.143.html)

Power loss generally occurs after a storm arrives, not before.

[Blackbird45]

We all know that EVs are presently going to have charging issue, but I believe this will resolve itself faster than you think. Once a financial incentive is put in place. When I was growing up in New York there were parking meters in all shopping area. If the city believes they can make money supplying electricity the same thing will happen and the same with building complexes. Also, you will see electric companies beefing up their capacity. This has nothing to do with saving the earth, this has to do with show me the money.

[spinner1001]

If you live in a an apartment complex, and for example you are assigned two outside parking spaces, where exactly are you supposed to charge your electric car in the evening and overnight, so one is able to get to work the next day? Since we're supposed to be all electric in the near future, are charging stations to be mandatory at apartment lots and parking structures?

The hoped-for idea of our leaders is to having a lot of charging done at places of employment and public charging facilities, in addition to homes.

[villageuser]

Presently, EV charging stations are being installed at corporate locations, banks, strip malls, etc etc etc. So, there may not be such a big reliance on every apartment complex having one. Regardless, I don’t see that every apartment renter will be able to have their own charging station, so there’ll be a charging station location with a few outlets. Can you imagine people dropping off their car to charge it and then going home to relax and forgetting about their car, and the next person who wants to charge can’t get in cause you got way laid and didn’t go back to move your car? It’ll have to be organized pretty well, with fines imposed for people who over-stay their charging. Anyhow, there are solutions out there. I’m sure they’ll have to be fine-tuned along the way, but we’ll get there. The thing is to think “how do we make this better”, rather than coming up with all the roadblocks to something happening.

[dewilson58]

If you live in a an apartment complex, ..................., where exactly are you supposed to charge your electric car in the evening and overnight, .....................

What is the percentage of apartment renters can afford an electric car???
(a/k/a............Suppy & Demand)

[defrey12]

2035 is a joke. Our entire society, and world, is based on fossil fuels. They cannot institute an iffy fuel source (at best) in a U-Turn pivot in 13 years. NO ONE thought this through. Based on junk science…yes, the world is warming. But not for the reasons expounded by the doomsday crowd. It’s cyclical and happens every 10,000 years or so…we’re just stuck in it. England was once a rain forest. Politics MUST blame someone or something. Back in the 70s they tried the “we’re running out…” cry to get us out of our cars. NOT, and never will…

[richardc1947]

Just wait til you see the rent increase to cover the cost of upgrading the electrical service to provide power to those charging stations. We have a condo back in Tennessee, and one of the units installed a charging station in their carport. The service for both attached units had to be upgraded at a cost of thousands of dollars. This is just the tip of the iceberg.

[defrey12]

Well, that’s just stupid. I have to leave my house to charge my car?! NEVER going to happen! OH! Let’s not forget they have to burn fossil fuels to generate the electricity…solar and wind are still basically “negative sum” systems. And all those supposed charging stations? Whose paying for them? And the electricity coming out of them? I have yet to see a credit card slot. I’ve looked. Oh, the government is taking care that? Are they going to pay my gasoline bill as well?

[fdpaq0580]

I believe that someday the cars will not be powered by batteries, but by induction from underground cables or, perhaps, earth magnetism. Batteries are filthy to produce and dispose of.

[WingedFoot78]

That would make a trip to the west coast interesting.

[Joe C.]

It's ridiculous isn't it?

[nhtexasrn]

And UP goes the rent which is ridiculous already.

[Hdljet]

Just buy a gasoline generator, place it by the car and run it all night.

[TeresaE]

When Henry Ford develop a system to mass produce the automobile, the government didn’t suddenly mandate their use over horses. The switch came about because it was consumer driven. The infrastructure followed. Consumer choice. This should be the same. If electric cars are the way of the future, it should be driven by consumer choice, never by government mandates. If the electric car reaches the usage that the doomsayers think it should, then the government, by the people for the people, can support it though investing in the infrastructure. Yes it’s a chicken and the egg challenge, but private innovations always trump government interference. In other words, if it’s meant to be, let it be our choice. Don’t shove it down our throats as the solution to our alleged ecological doom. After all, what if we have “the science” wrong.

[ithos]

All electric by 2035 is a fantasy. The policy would cause a major drop in standard of living and restrict the ability of the citizens to travel as freely as they do today.

And that is the true objective of eliminating gas powered POVs.

[oneclickplus]

120 volt outlets do not provide the voltage/amperage necessary to charge an all electric vehicle overnight! My Chevy Volt takes about 12 hours of charging via 120 volts go from zero miles to 50miles.

My son just visited from Michigan with his electric vehicle. Plugging in at 120V reported 4+ days to an 80% charge. That's just ridiculous. We had to take it to the "Electrify America" commercial charger where he was able to get it up to 80% in about 30 minutes; this is called a level 3 charger. Four problems with this:

1) Not everyone is willing to wait 30 minutes to "fill the tank" when they can do it now in about 3 minutes.
2) The charging location is not convenient (not anywhere near "home").
3) The charge (pun intended) was $0.43/kw. For those unfamiliar, go check your electric bill for the rate you pay. It's no where near 43 cents.
4) Level 3 charging (very fast) is detrimental to the life span of the batteries. So, while you can do this, you can't do it every day without serious damage to the batteries.

Electric vehicles will NEVER replace gas /diesel vehicles. There isn't enough infrastructure. There isn't enough lithium in the world to make even a tiny fraction of the batteries that would be required. This is a wet pipe dream by the (self-censored so as not to create a "political" post).

[JMintzer]

Ahh....hate to break this to you....gas pumps need electricity to operate. :welcome:

Old school hand pump the fuel from ground storage into the glass pump cylinder then gravity feed your car. Or have the storage tanks above ground and straight gravity feed to car.
While I like the image of clean electric vehicles, they are not yet truly that clean or green. Someday, yes, but not yet.

Or use a simple generator to power the pumps... Methinks they might have enough fuel to power them...:D

[Stu from NYC]

My son just visited from Michigan with his electric vehicle. Plugging in at 120V reported 4+ days to an 80% charge. That's just ridiculous. We had to take it to the "Electrify America" commercial charger where he was able to get it up to 80% in about 30 minutes; this is called a level 3 charger. Four problems with this:

1) Not everyone is willing to wait 30 minutes to "fill the tank" when they can do it now in about 3 minutes.
2) The charging location is not convenient (not anywhere near "home").
3) The charge (pun intended) was $0.43/kw. For those unfamiliar, go check your electric bill for the rate you pay. It's no where near 43 cents.
4) Level 3 charging (very fast) is detrimental to the life span of the batteries. So, while you can do this, you can't do it every day without serious damage to the batteries.

Electric vehicles will NEVER replace gas /diesel vehicles. There isn't enough infrastructure. There isn't enough lithium in the world to make even a tiny fraction of the batteries that would be required. This is a wet pipe dream by the (self-censored so as not to create a "political" post).

Funny that nobody ever talks about the cost to charge a battery. Obviously it should be part of the equation.

[Susan1717]

My other home is a large condo complex with 150 condos, all outside parking in large lot. I don’t see any possible way they could install 150 charging stations. I cannot imagine the cost for 150 charging stations or if the complex could handle extra electricity. We aren’t even allowed a tankless water heater because our building cannot handle the extra power.
Another situation to consider, when I lived in chicago, like many, we had only street parking. There is no way the thousands of people without garages or designated parking spots could charge their car.

[retiredguy123]

Funny that nobody ever talks about the cost to charge a battery. Obviously it should be part of the equation.
It should be free!

[ECPRO]

Imagine trying to evacuate FL during a hurricane in an EV. Hope there won't be power failures along the way.
In a power failure gas stations can not pump gas.

[ffresh]

All electric by 2035 is a fantasy. The policy would cause a major drop in standard of living and restrict the ability of the citizens to travel as freely as they do today.

And that is the true objective of eliminating gas powered POVs.

CONGRATULATIONS ... unlike many Americans, you have cracked the code.
Kudos :coolsmiley:

Fred

[Bikehike]

Maybe instead of parking meters on the street they will have electric chargers at every spot

[Blackbird45]

What is the percentage of apartment renters can afford an electric car???
(a/k/a............Suppy & Demand)

Many companies, universities and people in their garage are trying to come up with a cheaper, more efficient battery. That is the most expensive part of an EV. Once that is accomplished EVs will be less expensive to produce then gas cars (Less working parts) and with all these car companies jumping into EV production the prices will drop.

[MandoMan]

Interesting problem, and something I had never thought about. I have not seen any apartment type housing that advertised electric vehicle charging, and certainly not 'dedicated' for a specific owner. Enforcement of parking for electric vehicles only in public spaces seems to be s lost cause, and i am not sure any better for assigned spaces (think about handicapped parking).
Possibly someone from California may have some insight into this potential problem.

OP, if you are looking to move into the villages or the surrounding area, you will need to specifically ask to see if there are any arrangements for electric charging and then the arrangement s if someone uses 'your' spot.

Good luck with your quest.

These are significant questions. Eventually the problems will be solved, though perhaps in an unexpected way, such as a new discovery. There were similar problems when homes began to be electrified—where would all that electricity come from? How would it reach houses? There were similar problems as the telephone system had to be developed. And then, consider the decimation of the pay phone complex after cell phones became available. The rise of online shopping has decimated shopping centers and required far more delivery vehicles. Working from home has changed the nature of business in offices. Hospitals now use day-surgery whenever possible, and that has certainly changed many things in hospitals. We always find a way to make new things work after a period of chaos that follows the introduction of something new. We adjust.

[Byte1]

One of my neighbors with an EV paid more to charge her vehicle than I pay for a tank of gas, and it took a lot longer. Just saying.

[Regorp]

Near future? Not possible.

I started driving gas cars 50 years ago and the final drive at the end of the road will be gas as well.

[ithos]

In a power failure gas stations can not pump gas.

Here you go.

MAP: Where to find gas in Florida when the power goes out (https://www.news4jax.com/weather/2019/08/29/map-where-to-find-gas-in-florida-when-the-power-goes-out/)

The state law, which applies to gas stations built or substantially renovated after July 1, 2006, was passed following the 2005 hurricane season, which saw the Sunshine State impacted in turns by hurricanes Katrina, Rita and Wilma.

Besides most cars will be topped off well before a storm hits and causes an outage.

[LuvtheVillages]

There is an apartment complex on Powell Road, across from Harbor Chase, that has 2 electric charging stations available in its lot. You have to pay to use them. You can use an app called Chargepoint, which provides access to charging stations nationwide. Some free, some paid.
I don't know how they prevent one or two cars from parking there all night long, but I doubt it's a problem, yet.

[GeriS]

Shhh.. don't expose the matrix.

Oh I think it will be soon.

[birdawg]

Some politicians looking to make millions

[NoMoSno]

Do you enjoy camping? Get a Ford F150 Lighting. They travel less than 80 miles pulling a trailer.
The Ford F-150 Lightning Barely Made It 80 Miles With a Trailer (https://www.motorbiscuit.com/ford-f-150-lightning-barely-made-it-80-miles-with-a-trailer/)

[retiredguy123]

Suppose we solve all of the charging and cost problems, and every vehicle is electric. What will we have gained?

[NoMoSno]

In a power failure gas stations can not pump gas.
You must have not lived in FL during a widespread power outage.

[TeresaE]

Imagine trying to evacuate FL during a hurricane in an EV. Hope there won't be power failures along the way.

Or a fire or earthquake in California

[threeonemiles@outlook.com]

Neither can you get electricity. When the power comes back on, you can go and find a convenient charging station for your electric chariot, provided you have enough juice to get to one.

[MrFlorida]

Ahh....hate to break this to you....gas pumps need electricity to operate. :welcome:

A lot of gas stations , especially up north have back up generators.

[MrFlorida]

Just buy a gasoline generator, place it by the car and run it all night.

Isn't that defeating the purpose of an electric car ?

[TeresaE]

We all know that EVs are presently going to have charging issue, but I believe this will resolve itself faster than you think. Once a financial incentive is put in place. When I was growing up in New York there were parking meters in all shopping area. If the city believes they can make money supplying electricity the same thing will happen and the same with building complexes. Also, you will see electric companies beefing up their capacity. This has nothing to do with saving the earth, this has to do with show me the money.

Do you really want the government in charge of your mobility? Cause that’s what we’re talking about. They could cut us off at any time if they controlled the sourceof the fuel.

[MrFlorida]

So you have an electric car, now what happens if you get to the charging station and your 10th in line ? I've seen people fight in gas lines during shortages, how would this be any different ?

[retiredguy123]

Isn't that defeating the purpose of an electric car ?
Yes.

I don't know where it was located, but I have seen photos of a huge diesel generator being used to power a vehicle charging station.

[Aqtlow]

Lol

[Aqtlow]

Yet

[Aqtlow]

With the big savings in gas you could buy a house with a garage, just saying. Lol

[Aqtlow]

Shure no foot print there lol

[Aqtlow]

Lol

[Lisanp@aol.com]

If companies REALLY thought electric cars were a thing, 7-11 would have built a car charging station next to shooters world, not a gas station.

People complain about rent now, imagine if ever apartment needed charging infrastructure and the electricity to go with it.

The convenience store retailer 7-Eleven isn’t in the car charging business, Tesla is. Tesla has a charging station in the Okahumpka Service Plaza, 7 miles away from shooters world. Tesla builds their charging network about 150 miles apart. The real question is will the villages embrace electric and build car and cart charging stations in the new town squares in Eastport and Middleton.

[Boston1945]

Ahh....hate to break this to you....gas pumps need electricity to operate. :welcome:

If I recall Florida passed some law about gas stations having backup generators for the pumps. I don't see any generators around Lake or Sumter. Over the years I have checked and even asked the stations them selfs.

[Boston1945]

We have one and ONLY one gas stations with backup generators on 466A and we have four stations in Leesburg.

[Blackbird45]

Do you really want the government in charge of your mobility? Cause that’s what we’re talking about. They could cut us off at any time if they controlled the sourceof the fuel.

This is not government control. Government helps pharmaceutical companies bring a drug to existence, but it's the individual companies that supply the public.
In the same way you will find owners of parking lots, Walmart and store like them, office buildings installing charging stations. Why because it's a profit to their bottom line. This is individual investment not government control.

[NoMoSno]

We have one and ONLY one gas stations with backup generators on 466A and we have four stations in Leesburg.
MAP: Where to find gas in Florida when the power goes out (https://www.clickorlando.com/weather/2019/08/29/map-where-to-find-gas-in-florida-when-the-power-goes-out/)

[Boston1945]

MAP: Where to find gas in Florida when the power goes out (https://www.clickorlando.com/weather/2019/08/29/map-where-to-find-gas-in-florida-when-the-power-goes-out/)

Thank you for the post. I did see that it was posted after I made my post. After living here for over 50 years it does not matter if the station does have a generator or not. They will run out of gas long before the storm even comes here. And it takes days for the tankers to come and refill the tanks. I have been without power for as long as 14 days right here in Lake county. And one thing for sure I have my own generator for backup.

[Badger 2006]

This is not government control. Government helps pharmaceutical companies bring a drug to existence, but it's the individual companies that supply the public.
In the same way you will find owners of parking lots, Walmart and store like them, office buildings installing charging stations. Why because it's a profit to their bottom line. This is individual investment not government control.

California mandates all new cars must be electric by 2035. How is that not government control?

[Number 10 GI]

What is the percentage of apartment renters can afford an electric car???
(a/k/a............Suppy & Demand)

I've read in a number of different places that the average price for an electric car is $65,000. How many hours at $15 per hour at a fast food restaurant will a person have to work in order to afford that vehicle? That price is way outside the average worker's ability in most fields to afford one. Electric cars are toys for rich people!

[Number 10 GI]

It should be free!

Please provide us with a realistic reason why it should be free to charge an electric car. How will this FREE electricity be paid for?

News Flash!!! Nothing is free, someone, usually a lot someones, is paying for it.

[Number 10 GI]

The new 7-11 convenience station next to Shooters World covers maybe a bit over 1/4 acre of land. I think there are somewhere around 12 pumps. If the average fill up takes 5 minutes, how many cars can go fill up in an hour? A bunch!
Now with 12 chargers to charge an electric car on a fast charge that takes 30 minutes, as has been mentioned earlier, how many cars can charge up in an hour? Far fewer than with gasoline. To charge the same number of electric cars you would need a whole lot of charging stations and 1/4 acre wouldn't even have enough space. It would take at least 20 acres of charging stations to even come close. How much does an acre of land cost in Chicago, New York, Los Angeles or any of the other large urban cities. Do you realize how much a charge would cost with those land prices? The belief in electric cars falls into the same category as Unicorns and Pixies.

[Stu from NYC]

The new 7-11 convenience station next to Shooters World covers maybe a bit over 1/4 acre of land. I think there are somewhere around 12 pumps. If the average fill up takes 5 minutes, how many cars can go fill up in an hour? A bunch!
Now with 12 chargers to charge an electric car on a fast charge that takes 30 minutes, as has been mentioned earlier, how many cars can charge up in an hour? Far fewer than with gasoline. To charge the same number of electric cars you would need a whole lot of charging stations and 1/4 acre wouldn't even have enough space. It would take at least 20 acres of charging stations to even come close. How much does an acre of land cost in Chicago, New York, Los Angeles or any of the other large urban cities. Do you realize how much a charge would cost with those land prices? The belief in electric cars falls into the same category as Unicorns and Pixies.

Buccees has over a 100 pumps, wonder if they will add charging stations and if so how many?

[Number 10 GI]

I hate to keep belaboring the unrealistic belief in electric cars, but some reason needs to be in the conversation. I have read a couple of articles that says for California to be able to provide enough electricity for projected population growth and the growth of electric cars mandated for 2035, the state will have to build 20 full size generating plants. Right now, the state is operating at the maximum output of electricity available. There is no way that will happen by 2035. By the time all the environmental requirements have been met, the claims by the NIBY groups who claim some endangered species is threatened have been disproved and the necessary funding has been obtained, 2035 is a pipe dream.

[JMintzer]

In a power failure gas stations can not pump gas.

Yes they can... Most have generators...

[JMintzer]

Lol

Yet

With the big savings in gas you could buy a house with a garage, just saying. Lol

Shure no foot print there lol

Lol

Quoting the posts you're replying to helps us know what you're talking about...

[JMintzer]

Please provide us with a realistic reason why it should be free to charge an electric car. How will this FREE electricity be paid for?

News Flash!!! Nothing is free, someone, usually a lot someones, is paying for it.

Sarcasm, Sheldon...

[JMintzer]

Buccees has over a 100 pumps, wonder if they will add charging stations and if so how many?

The new one, in Florence, SC has a ton of Tesla charging stations. I'd guess at leas 15-20 of them...

[retiredguy123]

Please provide us with a realistic reason why it should be free to charge an electric car. How will this FREE electricity be paid for?

News Flash!!! Nothing is free, someone, usually a lot someones, is paying for it.
See Post No. 80.

[Blackbird45]

Do you really want the government in charge of your mobility? Cause that’s what we’re talking about. They could cut us off at any time if they controlled the sourceof the fuel.

You really don't seem to understand that most of the chargers will be independently own. Either by private owners, states, cities, electric companies. No different than what is in place now. Maybe the only difference is we won't have to worry the Saudis will shut the spigot if they're not happy.

[thelegges]

The new one, in Florence, SC has a ton of Tesla charging stations. I'd guess at leas 15-20 of them...

The time we spent there we could have charged car twice:mmmm::MOJE_whot:

[JMintzer]

You really don't seem to understand that most of the chargers will be independently own. Either by private owners, states, cities, electric companies. No different than what is in place now. Maybe the only difference is we won't have to worry the Saudis will shut the spigot if they're not happy.

We shouldn't have to worry about the Saudis now...

[Stu from NYC]

The time we spent there we could have charged car twice:mmmm::MOJE_whot:

Very true it is an incredible store. Went there for first time could not believe what was there

[B-flat]

All electric by 2035 is a fantasy. The policy would cause a major drop in standard of living and restrict the ability of the citizens to travel as freely as they do today.

And that is the true objective of eliminating gas powered POVs.

:BigApplause: B-I-N-G-O!! It's all about controlling the population while the elites still move around in their high priced private jets, yachts and expensive cars.

[Woodbear]

As a business traveler, are the airport rental car companies going to have hundred of charges on site? Will I be asked to bring my rental car back full of charge? Will my car be fully charged when I pick it up?

Will the hotels have chargers for every person staying over? If I get in late, and I cannot get my car charged, is my boss ok if I miss the meeting because my electric car had no juice in it?

What a nightmare!

[MorTech]

Their plan is to control energy and food production so they can achieve a total population in the USA of 100M by 2035. That is what they mean by "sustainability". With 100M people in the USA, electric cars will be sustainable along with their "Smart Cities".

[Two Bills]

When the ICE was first massed produced, and cars came on market big time, I wonder what industry did to get fuel to all the users?:icon_wink:

[ithos]

The map is out of date for The Villages

[Blackbird45]

We shouldn't have to worry about the Saudis now...

in 1973, there was an oil embargo imposed by members of the Organization of Arab Petroleum Exporting Countries this led to fuel shortages and sky-high prices, people had to wait on long lines. In some states, consumers could only purchase gas every other day, based on whether the last digit of their license plate numbers was even or odd. The gasoline shortage also led to fears that heating oil might be in short supply through the 1979-1980 winter. Russia is more or less doing the same thing now.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't want to see this country bend the knee every time some country deicides to cut off the spigot. Electrification just might be our way to independence.

[dawnrizo]

Who will have to pay for the electricity?

[Stu from NYC]

in 1973, there was an oil embargo imposed by members of the Organization of Arab Petroleum Exporting Countries this led to fuel shortages and sky-high prices, people had to wait on long lines. In some states, consumers could only purchase gas every other day, based on whether the last digit of their license plate numbers was even or odd. The gasoline shortage also led to fears that heating oil might be in short supply through the 1979-1980 winter. Russia is more or less doing the same thing now.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't want to see this country bend the knee every time some country deicides to cut off the spigot. Electrification just might be our way to independence.

We already had independence. More oil that we could use so we were exporting.

[terenceanne]

Ask Mayor Pete or move to California - Problem solved.

[B-flat]

We already had independence. More oil that we could use so we were exporting.

Ditto! The leadership of this country has other ideas.

[Bay Kid]

Who will have to pay for the electricity?

One thing they don't talk about. They always act like it is free.

It will cost you per minute for the charge. Bring a book to read while filling her up or while waiting in line for the charge.

[OhioBuckeye]

EV’s are going to be full of surprises. This is just another surprise in buying an EV that dealers aren’t telling you about.Wait until yo find out what it cost!

[midiwiz]

If you live in a an apartment complex, and for example you are assigned two outside parking spaces, where exactly are you supposed to charge your electric car in the evening and overnight, so one is able to get to work the next day? Since we're supposed to be all electric in the near future, are charging stations to be mandatory at apartment lots and parking structures?

not sure what you are reading, but that definitely isn't happening any time soon.

[Susan1717]

Would need your own garage

There are many circumstances where an EV will not work. Many cities dwellers do not have garages nor parking and only use street parking. Many large complexes could never install that many charging stations nor handle the infrastructure. And I agree, could you imaging evacuation from a hurricane in sn Arab or stranded in a snow storm?

[Stu from NYC]

There are many circumstances where an EV will not work. Many cities dwellers do not have garages nor parking and only use street parking. Many large complexes could never install that many charging stations nor handle the infrastructure. And I agree, could you imaging evacuation from a hurricane in sn Arab or stranded in a snow storm?

Somebody in power should be thinking thru the pitfalls before committing us to full speed ahead

[ffresh]

... The belief in electric cars falls into the same category as Unicorns and Pixies.[/QUOTE]

Not to mention:
FUTURE OF THE ENVIRONMENT - The dirty secret of electric vehicles

The dirty secret of electric vehicles | World Economic Forum (https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/03/the-dirty-secret-of-electric-vehicles) :ohdear:

Fred

[Two Bills]

No negativity on this thread then!
What happened to the Great American "Can do?"
In UK electric car charging points at being located in many places.
Supermarkets, purpose built charging stations, motor way services, parking meters with a charging points attached etc.
UK and Europe seem to be light years ahead of US these days!

[MrChipster]

This will be a huge problem. Most apartment complexes don't have assigned parking spaces, and couldn't enforce it without a lot of towing. Imagine if half the vehicles in a large complex were electric. How would you prevent someone with a gasoline vehicle from parking in a space with a charging outlet? I have lived in apartment complexes where, if you didn't get home by 10 PM, you had to park on the street about a block away.

And where is that on street parking plug and who paid to get it installed?

[positiveinlife]

Lithium extraction inevitably harms the soil and causes air contamination.
According to a report by Friends of the Earth (FoE), lithium extraction inevitably harms the soil and causes air contamination. As demand rises, the mining impacts are “increasingly affecting communities where this harmful extraction takes place, jeopardising their access to water,” says the report.

If you think your saving the earth by buying an EV guess again!

[Blackbird45]

This country uses more energy than any other, we are not totally independent. It doesn't matter what administration is at the helm sooner or later the black gold will dry up and everyone will blame each other. I don't know if electrification is the final solution but burying your head in the sand until that day comes is not the answer. At the moment we have on the table alternatives, solar, wind, nuclear, they're even trying to capture the energy of waves. There will always be someone telling you that something will never work or it's not worth it. I'm sure there were 2 cave men one saying let put our meat over the fire and the other saying what a waste of time we always eat our meat raw.

[The Chipster]

I have been an EV owner for the past 14 months and am smitten with the driving experience, huge decrease in maintenance costs, zero need for gas, oil changes and tune-ups, no noxious emissions, etc. And my brakes will never wear out due to regenerative braking when you let up on the accelerator pedal. My take on many questions raised here is that we are only at the beginning of a huge transformation in automotive technology, and like all significant transitions there are uncertainties, misinformation and early adopters. For apartment dwellers, there will soon be plenty of fast chargers nearby that will quickly "fill" a car with energy for 200-300 miles of use, plenty for the average Villager for several weeks. In my family, my wife has an ICE (gas) car for longer trips, and we use my I-Pace for most daily driving. I encourage everyone to just go to a dealer and take a test drive in an EV. You will be astounded, as I was.

[MrChipster]

When Henry Ford develop a system to mass produce the automobile, the government didn’t suddenly mandate their use over horses. The switch came about because it was consumer driven. The infrastructure followed. Consumer choice. This should be the same. If electric cars are the way of the future, it should be driven by consumer choice, never by government mandates. If the electric car reaches the usage that the doomsayers think it should, then the government, by the people for the people, can support it though investing in the infrastructure. Yes it’s a chicken and the egg challenge, but private innovations always trump government interference. In other words, if it’s meant to be, let it be our choice. Don’t shove it down our throats as the solution to our alleged ecological doom. After all, what if we have “the science” wrong.

Remember not long ago Government mandated the elimination of incandescent light bulbs and we were to use CFL (compact fluorescent Light bulbs) but then the unreliability and oh yes Mercury recycling was an unfortunate side effect.

DUHHH.. Of course they knew better than us.

[DonnaNi4os]

If you live in a an apartment complex, and for example you are assigned two outside parking spaces, where exactly are you supposed to charge your electric car in the evening and overnight, so one is able to get to work the next day? Since we're supposed to be all electric in the near future, are charging stations to be mandatory at apartment lots and parking structures?

You pose a great question. My daughter works on the advertising campaign for a major car company’s electric vehicle and we have had this discussion. It is something that will eventually need addressing. In the meantime I ponder how Californians will charge their vehicles when they are having such power issues. Inquiring minds want to know.

[ffresh]

Their plan is to control energy and food production so they can achieve a total population in the USA of 100M by 2035. That is what they mean by "sustainability". With 100M people in the USA, electric cars will be sustainable along with their "Smart Cities".

The following urls show population forecasts from Deagel.com, an intelligence community asset, similar to Janes Janes | The trusted source for defence and security intelligence (https://www.janes.com/) .They both have "inside" connections to military/world intelligence. Deagle removed their population forecast for 2025 a couple of years ago - it had created quite a stir - for reasons unstated :censored: The US population had been forecast to have a 68% reduction by 2025: United States of America 316,440,000 --> 99,553,100 -68.5. The same forecasts held true for all of the other countries. One can only guess what would cause these massive reductions :ohdear:

https://www.thevoid.uk/void-post/deagel-2025-population-and-output-forecast-revisited-essential-guide/

deagel - Search (https://www.bing.com/search?q=deagel&cvid=68f8ad76e8a94d5baebef0f5df112e3a&aqs=edge.0.0l8j69i65.1782j0j1&pglt=297&FORM=ANNTA1&PC=U531)


Fred

[NoMoSno]

I have been an EV owner for the past 14 months and am smitten with the driving experience, huge decrease in maintenance costs, zero need for gas, oil changes and tune-ups, no noxious emissions, etc. And my brakes will never wear out due to regenerative braking when you let up on the accelerator pedal. My take on many questions raised here is that we are only at the beginning of a huge transformation in automotive technology, and like all significant transitions there are uncertainties, misinformation and early adopters. For apartment dwellers, there will soon be plenty of fast chargers nearby that will quickly "fill" a car with energy for 200-300 miles of use, plenty for the average Villager for several weeks. In my family, my wife has an ICE (gas) car for longer trips, and we use my I-Pace for most daily driving. I encourage everyone to just go to a dealer and take a test drive in an EV. You will be astounded, as I was.
A Jaguar that starts out at $72,000, has an 8-year warranty on the battery, with a replacement cost of $25,000 is hardly a vehicle the masses will buy. Until affordable EVs emerge they will never become mainstream.

[ffresh]

Somebody in power should be thinking thru the pitfalls before committing us to full speed ahead

OFTEN ... one person's "pitfalls" (we the people) are another's benefit (government) ; I believe it HAS been thoroughly thought through ;)

Fred

[ffresh]

This country uses more energy than any other, we are not totally independent...

Not true and we were a short time ago; and don't forget that the USA is among the largest of countries in terms of size and industrialization. This status of being, perhaps, the world's largest manufacturer was certainly true until corporations decided it was in their best interests to offshore production to China (for reasons so numerous we can't go into here). Ergo, China is the largest consumer of energy and probably the world's greatest producer of pollution as a result of lax/no laws to minimize it. This means the world's combined pollution has not been eliminated, merely exported to China. :sad:

Fred

[Dusty_Star]

Electric cars have a problem, they keep lighting houses on fire. Electric Cars Have One Problem: They Keep Lighting People'''s Houses on Fire (https://futurism.com/the-byte/electric-cars-lighting-houses-on-fire)

A Tesla spontaneously combusted on Thursday September 15, 2022. By my rough calculation it took around 25,000 gallons of water to extinguish. That amount of water would fill an 18 by 36 pool. Fully Involved Tesla Car Fire Takes Nearly 45 Minutes To Put Down In Fairfield County | Wilton Daily Voice (https://dailyvoice.com/connecticut/wilton/police-fire/fully-involved-tesla-car-fire-takes-nearly-45-minutes-to-put-down-in-fairfield-county/843836/)

[raisingJB]

Presently, EV charging stations are being installed at corporate locations, banks, strip malls, etc etc etc. So, there may not be such a big reliance on every apartment complex having one. Regardless, I don’t see that every apartment renter will be able to have their own charging station, so there’ll be a charging station location with a few outlets. Can you imagine people dropping off their car to charge it and then going home to relax and forgetting about their car, and the next person who wants to charge can’t get in cause you got way laid and didn’t go back to move your car? It’ll have to be organized pretty well, with fines imposed for people who over-stay their charging. Anyhow, there are solutions out there. I’m sure they’ll have to be fine-tuned along the way, but we’ll get there. The thing is to think “how do we make this better”, rather than coming up with all the roadblocks to something happening.



Super chargers have idle fees which are much more expensive than the fee for actually charging.

[raisingJB]

Well, that’s just stupid. I have to leave my house to charge my car?! NEVER going to happen! OH! Let’s not forget they have to burn fossil fuels to generate the electricity…solar and wind are still basically “negative sum” systems. And all those supposed charging stations? Whose paying for them? And the electricity coming out of them? I have yet to see a credit card slot. I’ve looked. Oh, the government is taking care that? Are they going to pay my gasoline bill as well?

Tesla Super Chargers don't have credit card slots. When the car is plugged in, it passes the VIN number to the charger. The credit card of the registered owner is then billed when the charging session is over.

[JMintzer]

in 1973, there was an oil embargo imposed by members of the Organization of Arab Petroleum Exporting Countries this led to fuel shortages and sky-high prices, people had to wait on long lines. In some states, consumers could only purchase gas every other day, based on whether the last digit of their license plate numbers was even or odd. The gasoline shortage also led to fears that heating oil might be in short supply through the 1979-1980 winter. Russia is more or less doing the same thing now.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't want to see this country bend the knee every time some country deicides to cut off the spigot. Electrification just might be our way to independence.

We have more oil here than the Saudi's do...

[ohioshooter]

I’m staying out of this discussion. There is no winning side.

[JMintzer]

No negativity on this thread then!
What happened to the Great American "Can do?"
In UK electric car charging points at being located in many places.
Supermarkets, purpose built charging stations, motor way services, parking meters with a charging points attached etc.
UK and Europe seem to be light years ahead of US these days!

UK and European cities are completely different that most US cities...

They are more walkable, with smaller, purpose oriented food stores. You can't go three blocks in some cities with out passing a bakery, a cheese shop, a butcher, etc...

The mass transit is completely different than in the US...

Supermarkets? Most people in cities walk to their supermarkets...

Motorway services? Great, if you're traveling. Don't help at all if you're commuting to work...

Parking meter charging? You mean run 220 to all the meters all over town?

Unfortunately, none of that will help the MILLIONS of apartment/condo dwellers in cities...

[JMintzer]

This country uses more energy than any other, we are not totally independent. It doesn't matter what administration is at the helm sooner or later the black gold will dry up and everyone will blame each other. I don't know if electrification is the final solution but burying your head in the sand until that day comes is not the answer. At the moment we have on the table alternatives, solar, wind, nuclear, they're even trying to capture the energy of waves. There will always be someone telling you that something will never work or it's not worth it. I'm sure there were 2 cave men one saying let put our meat over the fire and the other saying what a waste of time we always eat our meat raw.

Nuclear is the only answer. Yet we haven't built a new reactor since 2016, and the newest one before that went on line in 1996...

There are two being built in GA, with plans to go on line in 2023...

No where near enough...

[ffresh]

Nuclear is the only answer. Yet we haven't built a new reactor since 2016, and the newest one before that went on line in 1996...

...

Overall, at least considering our current technology, I believe you're correct. There is also this rather new development which appears promising:
Small nuclear power reactors - World Nuclear Association (https://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/nuclear-fuel-cycle/nuclear-power-reactors/small-nuclear-power-reactors.aspx)

Perhaps, the following has some merit, as far as mobility, but there may not be enough money to be made and control to be gained:

Hydrogen Generators for Cars and Trucks | Hydrogen Cars Now (https://www.hydrogencarsnow.com/index.php/hydrogen-generators-for-cars/)

SuperKit hydrogen generator for cars and trucks with engines up to 8 liters (https://www.hho-1.com/product/hydrogen-hho-generator-car-truck/) :thumbup:

Fred

[Blackbird45]

We have to take the first step.
Many posts have to do with need and money being spent and the waste of time
There is an old adage "Nothing is for certain except death and taxes".
If the benchmark is this is electrification is a waste, and the adage is true we have wasted billons if not trillions of dollars on trying to find cure for cancer. We're going to die anyway.
Let's hit the golf course.

[Rodneysblue]

If you live in a an apartment complex, and for example you are assigned two outside parking spaces, where exactly are you supposed to charge your electric car in the evening and overnight, so one is able to get to work the next day? Since we're supposed to be all electric in the near future, are charging stations to be mandatory at apartment lots and parking structures?
Did you ask management about charging your car. Maybe they have an area already set up for that. Maybe it’s an on demand thing, make a request and they’ll install one at your spot. Or maybe they won’t right now, waiting for demand to increase.

[ffresh]

We have to take the first step.
Many posts have to do with need and money being spent and the waste of time
There is an old adage "Nothing is for certain except death and taxes".
If the benchmark is this is electrification is a waste, and the adage is true we have wasted billons if not trillions of dollars on trying to find cure for cancer. We're going to die anyway.
Let's hit the golf course.

Or the restaurant after reading that entire thread about steak houses :mmmm:

Fred

[Two Bills]

UK and European cities are completely different that most US cities...

They are more walkable, with smaller, purpose oriented food stores. You can't go three blocks in some cities with out passing a bakery, a cheese shop, a butcher, etc...

Granted. They however are more a convenience shop than major shopping places

The mass transit is completely different than in the US...

When did US cities give up the bus, metro, taxi's etc?

Supermarkets? Most people in cities walk to their supermarkets...

Not a chance. Car by majority of supermarket shoppers. Not carrying half a dozen bags home on foot!.

Motorway services? Great, if you're traveling. Don't help at all if you're commuting to work...

We do allow commuters on motorways.
Anyway, EV owners should have charged their batteries overnight!

Parking meter charging? You mean run 220 to all the meters all over town?

I live in a small village, but our nearest large town is already altering its car parks and meters to accommodate EV charging.

Unfortunately, none of that will help the MILLIONS of apartment/condo dwellers in cities...

We're working on that!

///

[Nellmack]

Thanks for posting this question, it promotes conversation and that helps move the transition.
I'm on my second electric car. I had the first on for 7 years (135K miles) (original breaks, zero maintenance), the daily charge range was 220 miles. My new electric car has a daily range of 340 miles. I charge at my house and my office. The technology exists to plug into a charging station and the station will recognize your car (and account) and charge you accordingly. I've thought about the "apartment charging situation" and based on my understanding of construction and EVs, I would imagine apartment owners will provide the power grid to each parking spot and the grid will charge your account automatically. There could be a rule in place that your car can be parked in the space and charge for 24 hours (even though you only need 4 hours) after that there would be some kind of fee. The fee would police someone from taking the spot for a week. The cost of the power wiring infrastructure would be build into your electric bill. (still way cheaper than gasoline)

[retiredguy123]

Thanks for posting this question, it promotes conversation and that helps move the transition.
I'm on my second electric car. I had the first on for 7 years (135K miles) (original breaks, zero maintenance), the daily charge range was 220 miles. My new electric car has a daily range of 340 miles. I charge at my house and my office. The technology exists to plug into a charging station and the station will recognize your car (and account) and charge you accordingly. I've thought about the "apartment charging situation" and based on my understanding of construction and EVs, I would imagine apartment owners will provide the power grid to each parking spot and the grid will charge your account automatically. There could be a rule in place that your car can be parked in the space and charge for 24 hours (even though you only need 4 hours) after that there would be some kind of fee. The fee would police someone from taking the spot for a week. The cost of the power wiring infrastructure would be build into your electric bill. (still way cheaper than gasoline)
That brings up a good point. If you only have a limited number of charging spaces, the owner will need to move their vehicle to another space after charging it. So, apartment complexes will need to greatly increase the total number of parking spaces to accommodate their residents. Moving vehicles around will be a logistical nightmare. Most apartment complexes I have lived in did not have enough parking spaces when the complex was constructed. They may need to install a charging outlet for every parking space.

[Stu from NYC]

Thanks for posting this question, it promotes conversation and that helps move the transition.
I'm on my second electric car. I had the first on for 7 years (135K miles) (original breaks, zero maintenance), the daily charge range was 220 miles. My new electric car has a daily range of 340 miles. I charge at my house and my office. The technology exists to plug into a charging station and the station will recognize your car (and account) and charge you accordingly. I've thought about the "apartment charging situation" and based on my understanding of construction and EVs, I would imagine apartment owners will provide the power grid to each parking spot and the grid will charge your account automatically. There could be a rule in place that your car can be parked in the space and charge for 24 hours (even though you only need 4 hours) after that there would be some kind of fee. The fee would police someone from taking the spot for a week. The cost of the power wiring infrastructure would be build into your electric bill. (still way cheaper than gasoline)

Please tell us about the economics of charging your car. Unfortunately few people will talk about the electrical cost of charging that allows you to drive say 200 miles

[Nellmack]

Please tell us about the economics of charging your car. Unfortunately few people will talk about the electrical cost of charging that allows you to drive say 200 miles

I'll try to answer your question but please understand that I don't drive an electric car for what I save on electricity. I drive it for #1 performance (it can accelerate to 60 mph in under 2 seconds. I don't drive fast but there are times when that power comes in handy) # 2 the environment.

According to my Tesla App I charge at my house 70% of the time, 3% at Tesla Superchargers, 6% at my office and 21% at my vacation house. I pay $0.15 per kWh everywhere except the Tesla Supercharger, I pay $0.44 per kWh there. I believe a full charge would be 116kWh so if charging from my house it would be 116 x $0.15 = $17.40 for a full charge. You can't take the mileage they publish as gospel because I usually drive about 10mph over the speed limit (which means I use more power). So a full (daily) charge of 340 miles might mean I'll get 315 miles of actual driving. My usual routine is to charge my car like my phone, I plug it in at night and start every day with a full charge. On average I probably use about 30% of my battery every day so 30% of 116kWh is 34.8 kWh x $0.15 = $5.22 for a 30% charge.

I hope this helps.

[HogPilot]

Presently, EV charging stations are being installed at corporate locations, banks, strip malls, etc etc etc. So, there may not be such a big reliance on every apartment complex having one. Regardless, I don’t see that every apartment renter will be able to have their own charging station, so there’ll be a charging station location with a few outlets. Can you imagine people dropping off their car to charge it and then going home to relax and forgetting about their car, and the next person who wants to charge can’t get in cause you got way laid and didn’t go back to move your car? It’ll have to be organized pretty well, with fines imposed for people who over-stay their charging. Anyhow, there are solutions out there. I’m sure they’ll have to be fine-tuned along the way, but we’ll get there. The thing is to think “how do we make this better”, rather than coming up with all the roadblocks to something happening.

I was wondering about that. There is a cost to charge one’s car at the charging station. Once the vehicle is fully charged, I would think that the vehicle would continue to be charged a fee to park at the charging station after it’s finished it’s charging cycle. An incentive to move the vehicle so others can have use of the station. I’m not familiar with the charging app, but I suspect one can monitor the state of charge remotely / wirelessly.

[Blackbird45]

You can throw yourself on the floor, kick and scream all you want but alternate fuel vehicles are on their way sooner than you think.

When cars first appeared, people claimed they were dangerous, sounds familiar, they also complained there was no infrastructure. So, what happen, people found owning a car was easier than owning a horse.

What really made a change was the money. A new market opened, with an investment by the government building new roads (Infrastructure). Car sales, truck sales, gas stations, motels, restaurants, the country expanded overnight.
The money will make the change again. The government again is making an investment in the infrastructure. Established auto companies and startups have invested millions, some car companies claim they will only make electric cars in the near future. Other companies that see a market tied to the EV are and will start popping up all over.

You might not like it, but you can’t hold back the future and the speed of the future is controlled by the amount of money invested.

[retiredguy123]

I'll try to answer your question but please understand that I don't drive an electric car for what I save on electricity. I drive it for #1 performance (it can accelerate to 60 mph in under 2 seconds. I don't drive fast but there are times when that power comes in handy) # 2 the environment.

According to my Tesla App I charge at my house 70% of the time, 3% at Tesla Superchargers, 6% at my office and 21% at my vacation house. I pay $0.15 per kWh everywhere except the Tesla Supercharger, I pay $0.44 per kWh there. I believe a full charge would be 116kWh so if charging from my house it would be 116 x $0.15 = $17.40 for a full charge. You can't take the mileage they publish as gospel because I usually drive about 10mph over the speed limit (which means I use more power). So a full (daily) charge of 340 miles might mean I'll get 315 miles of actual driving. My usual routine is to charge my car like my phone, I plug it in at night and start every day with a full charge. On average I probably use about 30% of my battery every day so 30% of 116kWh is 34.8 kWh x $0.15 = $5.22 for a 30% charge.

I hope this helps.
Thank you.

Based on your figures, you are spending about 5.5 cents per mile.
$17.40 ÷ 315 miles = $0.055, or 5.5 cents

For a gasoline vehicle, it would be about 13 cents per mile.
$3.25 per gallon ÷ 25 miles per gallon = $0.13, or 13 cents

This assumes that you are charging your vehicle at home for $0.15 per kwh. But, if you go on a long vacation trip, your charging cost will triple, and you will actually be paying more per mile than a gasoline vehicle. Also, people who live in an apartment where they cannot use their in-house electricity, they would also need to pay a higher rate. Is that correct?

[Stu from NYC]

You can throw yourself on the floor, kick and scream all you want but alternate fuel vehicles are on their way sooner than you think.

When cars first appeared, people claimed they were dangerous, sounds familiar, they also complained there was no infrastructure. So, what happen, people found owning a car was easier than owning a horse.

What really made a change was the money. A new market opened, with an investment by the government building new roads (Infrastructure). Car sales, truck sales, gas stations, motels, restaurants, the country expanded overnight.
The money will make the change again. The government again is making an investment in the infrastructure. Established auto companies and startups have invested millions, some car companies claim they will only make electric cars in the near future. Other companies that see a market tied to the EV are and will start popping up all over.

You might not like it, but you can’t hold back the future and the speed of the future is controlled by the amount of money invested.

Alternate fuel vehicles are likely coming but not really sure it will be the ev's they are pushing at us

[retiredguy123]

I'll try to answer your question but please understand that I don't drive an electric car for what I save on electricity. I drive it for #1 performance (it can accelerate to 60 mph in under 2 seconds. I don't drive fast but there are times when that power comes in handy) # 2 the environment.

According to my Tesla App I charge at my house 70% of the time, 3% at Tesla Superchargers, 6% at my office and 21% at my vacation house. I pay $0.15 per kWh everywhere except the Tesla Supercharger, I pay $0.44 per kWh there. I believe a full charge would be 116kWh so if charging from my house it would be 116 x $0.15 = $17.40 for a full charge. You can't take the mileage they publish as gospel because I usually drive about 10mph over the speed limit (which means I use more power). So a full (daily) charge of 340 miles might mean I'll get 315 miles of actual driving. My usual routine is to charge my car like my phone, I plug it in at night and start every day with a full charge. On average I probably use about 30% of my battery every day so 30% of 116kWh is 34.8 kWh x $0.15 = $5.22 for a 30% charge.

I hope this helps.
I can understand that electric vehicles would help the environment if the electricity for charging the vehicles could be generated from renewable sources, like solar and wind. But, currently, very little of our electricity is generated that way. Couldn't we help the environment more by getting power plants to generate all electricity from renewable souces, especially our houses? You said that you drive an electric vehicle for the environment, but you are charging your vehicle from your house electricity that is most likely generated from fossil fuels. How does that help the environment?

[retiredguy123]

Alternate fuel vehicles are likely coming but not really sure it will be the ev's they are pushing at us
I agree. But, I don't think the people doing the pushing are doing it to improve the environment.

[Nellmack]

I can understand that electric vehicles would help the environment if the electricity for charging the vehicles could be generated from renewable sources, like solar and wind. But, currently, very little of our electricity is generated that way. Couldn't we help the environment more by getting power plants to generate all electricity from renewable souces, especially our houses? You said that you drive an electric vehicle for the environment, but you are charging your vehicle from your house electricity that is most likely generated from fossil fuels. How does that help the environment?

That's a great question and I see it being addressed by people on ToTV that don't understand EV's. It's actually a pretty easy answer. Combustion Engine vehicles operate at (approx) 30% efficiency Electric Vehicles operate at (approx) 80% efficiency. That means that driving EV's are 50% better for the environment than driving ICE vehicles.

There's a reason every car manufacturer is moving to EVs. The technology is finally here and it's improving every year. The cars are far superior, test drive one you'll see for yourself. Their cheaper to operate (I had a car for 7 years - zero maintenance - no brakes) I use to spend a fortune on breaks. They're better for the environment and that will improve as we switch to solar and wind. AND Oil will not last forever. Good luck with your research.

[retiredguy123]

That's a great question and I see it being addressed by people on ToTV that don't understand EV's. It's actually a pretty easy answer. Combustion Engine vehicles operate at (approx) 30% efficiency Electric Vehicles operate at (approx) 80% efficiency. That means that driving EV's are 50% better for the environment than driving ICE vehicles.

There's a reason every car manufacturer is moving to EVs. The technology is finally here and it's improving every year. The cars are far superior, test drive one you'll see for yourself. Their cheaper to operate (I had a car for 7 years - zero maintenance - no brakes) I use to spend a fortune on breaks. They're better for the environment and that will improve as we switch to solar and wind. AND Oil will not last forever. Good luck with your research.
I admit that I am not an energy expert. But, I don't think you can just compare the efficiency of an electric vehicle to the efficiency of a gasoline vehicle. You also need to consider the efficiency of the power plant that burns the fossil fuel to generate the electricity that charges the electric vehicle. That efficiency is only about 33 percent. A gasoline vehicle burns the fossil fuel directly inside the vehicle, whereas the electric vehicle needs to get electricity from a power plant that is only 33 percent efficient at converting a fossil fuel into electricity. That would seem to indicate that, in terms of converting a fossil fuel into energy to power a vehicle, the gasoline vehicle would actually be more efficient. Maybe an energy expert can explain it better.

[MrChipster]

I admit that I am not an energy expert. But, I don't think you can just compare the efficiency of an electric vehicle to the efficiency of a gasoline vehicle. You also need to consider the efficiency of the power plant that burns the fossil fuel to generate the electricity that charges the electric vehicle. That efficiency is only about 33 percent. A gasoline vehicle burns the fossil fuel directly inside the vehicle, whereas the electric vehicle needs to get electricity from a power plant that is only 33 percent efficient at converting a fossil fuel into electricity. That would seem to indicate that, in terms of converting a fossil fuel into energy to power a vehicle, the gasoline vehicle would actually be more efficient. Maybe an energy expert can explain it better.

I came from Minnesota to the villages last year and here the winter was described as harsh because we had 2 nights in the 20F range.

In Minnesota and north there have been several winters where 35 or more days in a row it never got above freezing. And several winters it never gets above 0F for a week or more.

When you go out to your unheated car when it is -20F it will barely turn over because the battery is so inefficient at that temperature.

I have a friend with a Chevy Volt and it will not even go 20 miles in the winter on cold days. And they keep it in a heated garage. They will not park it on the street or travel more than a few miles from home when it is cold because the fear getting stranded because the batteries might get to cold while parked at the store, movie, show, restaurant etc…

[JMintzer]

///

The don't shop like we do. They have smaller kitchens and refrigerators. They shop for a day or two at a time. They don't come home with "12 bags of groceries"...

And no, they are not "convenience shops"... They are full service specialty shops. You go to this shop to get your bread, that shop to get your cheese, another to buy meat, vegetables, etc...

Yes, they have grocery stores, but they are nothing like the ones we have here.

When I traveled in Europe and Scandinavia, I made it a point to go into some of the grocery stores. It was an eye opening experience...

Yes, US cities have buses and taxis, but we don't have the rail systems they have in Europe. People bike/walk everywhere. Most here live too far from their jobs to do that. Many their ride scooters. That is just starting here, with short term rentals of bikes and scooters, but very few bike lanes....

In Amsterdam, there are more bikes than people. Everyone owns two. One cheap one to commute or shop with (that will eventually get stolen), and another nice one for bike trips out in the country...

There are bike lots with thousands of bikes. I don't know how you can even find yours. Most people just grab one, figuring someone else will grab theirs...

In Rome, Vespas are parked everywhere. Tiny, 2 passenger cars are parked like we park our golf carts, 90° to the sidewalk. Very few big sedans, unless you're wealthy...

And thank you for proving my point regarding charging stations. Yes, you're supposed to charge your EV at home, over night... But that is currently impossible for millions and millions of apartment/condo dwellers...

[JMintzer]

You can throw yourself on the floor, kick and scream all you want but alternate fuel vehicles are on their way sooner than you think.

When cars first appeared, people claimed they were dangerous, sounds familiar, they also complained there was no infrastructure. So, what happen, people found owning a car was easier than owning a horse.

What really made a change was the money. A new market opened, with an investment by the government building new roads (Infrastructure). Car sales, truck sales, gas stations, motels, restaurants, the country expanded overnight.
The money will make the change again. The government again is making an investment in the infrastructure. Established auto companies and startups have invested millions, some car companies claim they will only make electric cars in the near future. Other companies that see a market tied to the EV are and will start popping up all over.

You might not like it, but you can’t hold back the future and the speed of the future is controlled by the amount of money invested.

Yes, but they are now putting the cart before the horse... Mandating EVs BEFORE they have the infrastructure in place...

[JMintzer]

That's a great question and I see it being addressed by people on ToTV that don't understand EV's. It's actually a pretty easy answer. Combustion Engine vehicles operate at (approx) 30% efficiency Electric Vehicles operate at (approx) 80% efficiency. That means that driving EV's are 50% better for the environment than driving ICE vehicles.

There's a reason every car manufacturer is moving to EVs. The technology is finally here and it's improving every year. The cars are far superior, test drive one you'll see for yourself. Their cheaper to operate (I had a car for 7 years - zero maintenance - no brakes) I use to spend a fortune on breaks. They're better for the environment and that will improve as we switch to solar and wind. AND Oil will not last forever. Good luck with your research.

No, the reason they are moving to EVs is they know they cannot meet the impending CAFE standards imposed by the Gubmint...

[Glorantha]

The past winter, a major snowstorm stranded hundreds of vehicles on I95 for hours throughout the night. When VDOT started clearing the roads, they could provide a few galleons of gas so the drivers could get their vehicles off the road. Not sure how this would have worked if most vehicles were electric.

According to Elon Musk, the 2035 timetable is unrealistic. IMHO, electric vehicles will play a role as we transition to fuel cells or something like hydrogen.

Lastly, EVs are not as green as people think. The issues with the batteries alone are detrimental to the environment
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XV9ijKAubfU

[Two Bills]

The don't shop like we do. They have smaller kitchens and refrigerators. They shop for a day or two at a time. They don't come home with "12 bags of groceries"...

And no, they are not "convenience shops"... They are full service specialty shops. You go to this shop to get your bread, that shop to get your cheese, another to buy meat, vegetables, etc...

Yes, they have grocery stores, but they are nothing like the ones we have here.

When I traveled in Europe and Scandinavia, I made it a point to go into some of the grocery stores. It was an eye opening experience...

Yes, US cities have buses and taxis, but we don't have the rail systems they have in Europe. People bike/walk everywhere. Most here live too far from their jobs to do that. Many their ride scooters. That is just starting here, with short term rentals of bikes and scooters, but very few bike lanes....

In Amsterdam, there are more bikes than people. Everyone owns two. One cheap one to commute or shop with (that will eventually get stolen), and another nice one for bike trips out in the country...

There are bike lots with thousands of bikes. I don't know how you can even find yours. Most people just grab one, figuring someone else will grab theirs...

In Rome, Vespas are parked everywhere. Tiny, 2 passenger cars are parked like we park our golf carts, 90° to the sidewalk. Very few big sedans, unless you're wealthy...

And thank you for proving my point regarding charging stations. Yes, you're supposed to charge your EV at home, over night... But that is currently impossible for millions and millions of apartment/condo dwellers...

You must have visited about 40 years ago!
OK. The Dutch have always loved their bicycles. The place is as flat as a pancake, and made for them.
As for the rest of your 'observations' regarding fridge sizes, small cars, size of supermarkets etc. I don't know what ancient places you visited, but you must have spent a lot of time in 'oldie medieval' areas.
Most in UK do shop once a week, and we actually have large refrigerators and freezers, washing machines, even dish washers just like yours, and in most cases better made and quieter.
In all our 20+ years wintering in TV we never had a domestic appliance that wasn't capable of rousing the dead when in operation!
Believe it or not, in UK we also have talking and color movies these days as well!
Plus we are installing EV power sources nationwide wherever possible!!:ho:

[CFrance]

[QUOTE=JMintzer;2138211]The don't shop like we do. They have smaller kitchens and refrigerators. They shop for a day or two at a time. They don't come home with "12 bags of groceries"...

And no, they are not "convenience shops"... They are full service specialty shops. You go to this shop to get your bread, that shop to get your cheese, another to buy meat, vegetables, etc...

Yes, they have grocery stores, but they are nothing like the ones we have here.

When I traveled in Europe and Scandinavia, I made it a point to go into some of the grocery stores. It was an eye opening experience.."[Clipped].


That's simply not true anymore. Been traveling every year to Europe for 30 years and living here half years for thirteen. In that time we've visited 7 countries. Even the tiniest rural villages have large supermarkets. And the two of the largest, e. leclerc & Carre Four, have refrigerators for sale as big as our French door model in TV. I have yet to be in someone's house or apartment that only has an under-counter fridge. People outfit their own kitchens in Europe, even in rentals, and most have gone to large refrigerators.

Outdoor markets and specialty shops still abound, but you can get anything you want in the supermarkets. Many are even open on Sundays now.

[Stu from NYC]

You must have visited about 40 years ago!
OK. The Dutch have always loved their bicycles. The place is as flat as a pancake, and made for them.
As for the rest of your 'observations' regarding fridge sizes, small cars, size of supermarkets etc. I don't know what ancient places you visited, but you must have spent a lot of time in 'oldie medieval' areas.
Most in UK do shop once a week, and we actually have large refrigerators and freezers, washing machines, even dish washers just like yours, and in most cases better made and quieter.
In all our 20+ years wintering in TV we never had a domestic appliance that wasn't capable of rousing the dead when in operation!
Believe it or not, in UK we also have talking and color movies these days as well!
Plus we are installing EV power sources nationwide wherever possible!!:ho:

Very funny thanks for sharing

[fdpaq0580]

[QUOTE=JMintzer;2138211]The don't shop like we do. They have smaller kitchens and refrigerators. They shop for a day or two at a time. They don't come home with "12 bags of groceries"...

And no, they are not "convenience shops"... They are full service specialty shops. You go to this shop to get your bread, that shop to get your cheese, another to buy meat, vegetables, etc...

Yes, they have grocery stores, but they are nothing like the ones we have here.

When I traveled in Europe and Scandinavia, I made it a point to go into some of the grocery stores. It was an eye opening experience.."[Clipped].


That's simply not true anymore. Been traveling every year to Europe for 30 years and living here half years for thirteen. In that time we've visited 7 countries. Even the tiniest rural villages have large supermarkets. And the two of the largest, e. leclerc & Carre Four, have refrigerators for sale as big as our French door model in TV. I have yet to be in someone's house or apartment that only has an under-counter fridge. People outfit their own kitchens in Europe, even in rentals, and most have gone to large refrigerators.

Outdoor markets and specialty shops still abound, but you can get anything you want in the supermarkets. Many are even open on Sundays now.

There goes the neighborhood. 😏😀

[OhioBuckeye]

What a charging station?

[dsgreen3]

This is not government control. Government helps pharmaceutical companies bring a drug to existence, but it's the individual companies that supply the public.
In the same way you will find owners of parking lots, Walmart and store like them, office buildings installing charging stations. Why because it's a profit to their bottom line. This is individual investment not government control.

Tell that to the Canadian truck driver protestors who had their bank accounts frozen. If the government has the power to control you it will be to tempting for them not to abuse that power.

[The Chipster]

A Jaguar that starts out at $72,000, has an 8-year warranty on the battery, with a replacement cost of $25,000 is hardly a vehicle the masses will buy. Until affordable EVs emerge they will never become mainstream.

I agree with your last statement. But much of the billions of dollars being spent by the big car dealers are for the development of much cheaper EVs, so this will be a natural progression of the EV market. Again, we are at the beginning.

BTW, I bought my Jaguar I-Pace used with 15,000 miles on the odometer. Total price with the $7,500 tax rebate was $43,000. Don't forget about the growing used EV market.

[Two Bills]

What a charging station?

Same as a fuel stop for gas, but fast electric charging points for EV's.

[dsgreen3]

That's a great question and I see it being addressed by people on ToTV that don't understand EV's. It's actually a pretty easy answer. Combustion Engine vehicles operate at (approx) 30% efficiency Electric Vehicles operate at (approx) 80% efficiency. That means that driving EV's are 50% better for the environment than driving ICE vehicles.

There's a reason every car manufacturer is moving to EVs. The technology is finally here and it's improving every year. The cars are far superior, test drive one you'll see for yourself. Their cheaper to operate (I had a car for 7 years - zero maintenance - no brakes) I use to spend a fortune on breaks. They're better for the environment and that will improve as we switch to solar and wind. AND Oil will not last forever. Good luck with your research.

The reason they are moving to EVs is profit, and government mandates.

[dsgreen3]

I agree with your last statement. But much of the billions of dollars being spent by the big car dealers are for the development of much cheaper EVs, so this will be a natural progression of the EV market. Again, we are at the beginning.

BTW, I bought my Jaguar I-Pace used with 15,000 miles on the odometer. Total price with the $7,500 tax rebate was $43,000. Don't forget about the growing used EV market.

The growing used EV market has a huge problem with the cost of replacement batteries

[Byte1]

in 1973, there was an oil embargo imposed by members of the Organization of Arab Petroleum Exporting Countries this led to fuel shortages and sky-high prices, people had to wait on long lines. In some states, consumers could only purchase gas every other day, based on whether the last digit of their license plate numbers was even or odd. The gasoline shortage also led to fears that heating oil might be in short supply through the 1979-1980 winter. Russia is more or less doing the same thing now.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't want to see this country bend the knee every time some country deicides to cut off the spigot. Electrification just might be our way to independence.

Two years ago, we had OIL independence. Hmm, wonder what happened....:shrug:

[Byte1]

EVs are just a novelty. They are toys for the upper class so they can brag about them. They are not realistic as a method of transportation for the masses. Some day, maybe.

[Keefelane66]

I came from Minnesota to the villages last year and here the winter was described as harsh because we had 2 nights in the 20F range.

In Minnesota and north there have been several winters where 35 or more days in a row it never got above freezing. And several winters it never gets above 0F for a week or more.

When you go out to your unheated car when it is -20F it will barely turn over because the battery is so inefficient at that temperature.

I have a friend with a Chevy Volt and it will not even go 20 miles in the winter on cold days. And they keep it in a heated garage. They will not park it on the street or travel more than a few miles from home when it is cold because the fear getting stranded because the batteries might get to cold while parked at the store, movie, show, restaurant etc…
I must respectfully say your full of Baloney and may not know what you are talking about.
A Chevy VOLT is a plug in hybrid designed to run on batteries or gasoline so even if you say battery runs out at 20 miles the gasoline engine is fed by a 8.9 gallon fuel tank.
One thing I enjoy about posts here is people make up a lot of stuff to fit their narrative without knowing anything!

[Stu from NYC]

I must respectfully say your full of Baloney and may not know what you are talking about.
A Chevy VOLT is a plug in hybrid designed to run on batteries or gasoline so even if you say battery runs out at 20 miles the gasoline engine is fed by a 8.9 gallon fuel tank.
One thing I enjoy about posts here is people make up a lot of stuff to fit their narrative without knowing anything!

Other than that how do you like this place

[Byte1]

I must respectfully say your full of Baloney and may not know what you are talking about.
A Chevy VOLT is a plug in hybrid designed to run on batteries or gasoline so even if you say battery runs out at 20 miles the gasoline engine is fed by a 8.9 gallon fuel tank.
One thing I enjoy about posts here is people make up a lot of stuff to fit their narrative without knowing anything!

True, but I bet they might know the difference between "your" and "you're." :laugh:

[Number 10 GI]

One thing I enjoy about posts here is people make up a lot of stuff to fit their narrative without knowing anything!

That the case for both sides of the argument.

[Two Bills]

EVs are just a novelty. They are toys for the upper class so they can brag about them. They are not realistic as a method of transportation for the masses. Some day, maybe.

I must let my neighbor know she has been elevated to the 'upper class.'
She will probably have to move to a better area, and take her little bourgeois electric car with her!

[JMintzer]

I must respectfully say your full of Baloney and may not know what you are talking about.
A Chevy VOLT is a plug in hybrid designed to run on batteries or gasoline so even if you say battery runs out at 20 miles the gasoline engine is fed by a 8.9 gallon fuel tank.
One thing I enjoy about posts here is people make up a lot of stuff to fit their narrative without knowing anything!

He probably meant the Chevy BOLT (the name is often confused since they sound so similar...)

That said, your (note the correct spelling) post is insulting and unnecessary...

[OhioBuckeye]

LOL, maybe tax payers! Even if you don’t own an EV.

[OhioBuckeye]

That’s exactly right, you put it in a nutshell!

[fdpaq0580]

He probably meant the Chevy BOLT (the name is often confused since they sound so similar...)

That said, your (note the correct spelling) post is insulting and unnecessary...

Now,now. He did say "respectfully". 😏

[JMintzer]

Now,now. He did say "respectfully". 😏

"I don't mean that in a bad way..."

-Dom Irrera

https://youtu.be/5CqT4_vSm5E

[ohioshooter]

He probably meant the Chevy BOLT (the name is often confused since they sound so similar...)

That said, your (note the correct spelling) post is insulting and unnecessary...
You do know that there was a Volt before the Bolt?

[JMintzer]

You do know that there was a Volt before the Bolt?

Irrelevant...

On is a hybrid, the other an EV. That was my point...

[Stu from NYC]

Irrelevant...

On is a hybrid, the other an EV. That was my point...

Splitting hairs

[JMintzer]

Splitting hairs

Me? Not at all. The poster that started this thread derailment was talking about an EV getting terrible milage in severe cold...

He said "Volt" instead of "Bolt"... I simply pointed out that it was a common mistake...

It was the other guy who had yo jump in with the insults...

[Byte1]

I must let my neighbor know she has been elevated to the 'upper class.'
She will probably have to move to a better area, and take her little bourgeois electric car with her!

Tell her to move to the Villages :)

[Luggage]

is your answer ... at most in 10 years only 10% of all cars will be electric ... if you are still in an apt in 10 years ... DON't buy electric ...