New Fire District Not Good for Veterans

[kansasr]

The district government has posted a link where you can calculate what your new tax bill will be for the proposed fire district:
Florida Fire districts quicksearch (https://dtapf.com/simplified/villages)
I suggest you check it out if you're a disabled veteran or even someone who has a significant save our homes deduction.
Neither of these benefits are applicable for the fire district assessment. Instead, it is based upon the total market value (relative improvement value)
Depending upon the level of disable veteran discount and/or save our homes allowances, property taxes could increase anywhere from 15% to 25%.
I seriously doubt the homes are going to see a similar reduction in their Sumter County taxes when the adjustment is calculated for the new fire district.

[cheweycat]

Another fine bill left to us by Brett Hage. Not only these problems but it will be almost 5 years before we actually have our own elected representatives on this board. During this time, the "appointed" representatives will have the power to do or change almost anything they want. Add to this the unknown "decrease amount" we will see from Sumter County because they no longer have responsibility for fire safety in The VIllages, this seems like a pig in a poke to me.

[Dond1959]

We need to remember the reason we went down this path to establish an independent fire district. The previous Sumter County commissioners decided to form a committee to recommend what to do with the fire department’s given the issue with ambulance response time. That committee, which included newly elected commissioner Jeff Bogue, recommended that the Sumter County and Villages fire departments be combined. There was immediate outrage from Villagers and the commission backed down and the idea of the IFD was born.

The purpose of the IFD is to take it out of Sumter County politics and ensure the Villages will have our own Fire Department addressing the needs of our citizens.

If you read the post from Don Wiley (Goldwingnut) he did a good job trying to explain what is going on. Bottom line, we will see a reduction in our county taxes because they will not be funding the Villages Fire Department. We will not know the exact amount of the cost until next June. But Don stated based on his analysis he does not believe there will be a significant overall change in what we pay. Your county taxes should go down and your fire assessment will go up.

I am interested in how you determined the 15% to 25% increase in the property taxes, do you mean fire assessment? The fire assessment is different from property taxes and no one has stated county property taxes will go up (as Don Wiley stated property taxes will go down because the county will no longer have to support the Villages Fire Department).

As a veteran myself I am very much in favor of establishing the IFD to get the Villages Fire Department out from under the political influence of the county commission.

[Bilyclub]

We need to remember the reason we went down this path to establish an independent fire district. The previous Sumter County commissioners decided to form a committee to recommend what to do with the fire department’s given the issue with ambulance response time. That committee, which included newly elected commissioner Jeff Bogue, recommended that the Sumter County and Villages fire departments be combined. There was immediate outrage from Villagers and the commission backed down and the idea of the IFD was born.

The purpose of the IFD is to take it out of Sumter County politics and ensure the Villages will have our own Fire Department addressing the needs of our citizens.

If you read the post from Don Wiley (Goldwingnut) he did a good job trying to explain what is going on. Bottom line, we will see a reduction in our county taxes because they will not be funding the Villages Fire Department. We will not know the exact amount of the cost until next June. But Don stated based on his analysis he does not believe there will be a significant overall change in what we pay. Your county taxes should go down and your fire assessment will go up.

I am interested in how you determined the 15% to 25% increase in the property taxes, do you mean fire assessment? The fire assessment is different from property taxes and no one has stated county property taxes will go up (as Don Wiley stated property taxes will go down because the county will no longer have to support the Villages Fire Department).

As a veteran myself I am very much in favor of establishing the IFD to get the Villages Fire Department out from under the political influence of the county commission.

I remember some of that differently. It was the Fire Chief Cain who didn't want the merger and campaigned for an independent fire district.

[kansasr]

Since the Sumter County tax is supposed to go down to compensate, I just took that portion of a tax bill with the current fire levy and compared that to the county tax with the new tax levy. I looked at several properties on the property appraiser's web site that had disabled veteran exemptions and each would be looking at increases in the 15-25% range. Again, for these homeowners, I seriously doubt they will see the same reduction in the Sumter County levy when it is adjusted next year if this boondoggle passes.

[Babubhat]

I don’t care what they tell me. No recourse when it turns out badly. Put BINDING numbers in writing first. Not interested in excuses. Will wind up with another unaccountable agency

[Rainger99]

I find this very confusing. Is there any possibility that, before the election, there will be informational meetings where both sides can present the arguments for and against the new district? And take questions from the audience?

That would be more useful than having the issue discussed on TOTV?

[charlie1]

I find this very confusing. Is there any possibility that, before the election, there will be informational meetings where both sides can present the arguments for and against the new district? And take questions from the audience?

That would be more useful than having the issue discussed on TOTV?

Agreed! Common sense would say that the overall cost should not change much but we are all guessing at this point since we are all getting fire service today! The one thing I like is that the Villages can control their own service level which is urban vs the rest of the county which is rural. Based on population density, the acceptable response time would surely differ between the two area but cannot be enforced in a combined district. That's the reason why cities (even small cities) have their own fire district. That all being said, I am sure the cost will rise to have our own fire district, just wish someone would tell us how much. I AM willing to pay more for a high level of service.

[Papa_lecki]

My fire assessment is $125. What are we talking, a savings of $10 - $15???

Isn’t having better ambulance response time, if you, your friend, your spouse needs ambulance worth it?

I think most of us have seen incidents with 30 - 40 minutes waits for the ambulance.

[Dond1959]

I remember some of that differently. It was the Fire Chief Cain who didn't want the merger and campaigned for an independent fire district.

It was the citizens of the Villages who showed up in large numbers at the commissioners meeting and caused the County Commission to not implement the recommendation of the committee. So, I assume you are okay with combining the two fire departments? If so, you are in the minority as almost universally Villagers wanted to keep their Fire Department separate from Sumter County. Of course Chief Cain wants to keep the Villages department separate.

[charlie1]

The $125 fire assessment is not changing. It's allot like the base rate we see on our utility bills. What is changing is the "usage" fees so to speak. Today, All the cost for Sumter county fire protection is in the overall tax rate. With the new fire district, these cost will be separated for each fire district and charged to properties within each fire district according to their districts costs. The Villages Fire district has given an estimated cost but the county has not published the impact on the overall tax rate (reduction in rate) or the new rate for the other Sumter County fire district. We only have half the information we need!

[Dond1959]

Since the Sumter County tax is supposed to go down to compensate, I just took that portion of a tax bill with the current fire levy and compared that to the county tax with the new tax levy. I looked at several properties on the property appraiser's web site that had disabled veteran exemptions and each would be looking at increases in the 15-25% range. Again, for these homeowners, I seriously doubt they will see the same reduction in the Sumter County levy when it is adjusted next year if this boondoggle passes.

I can see the estimate for the new levy on the district website. I thought we still don’t know how much the Sumter tax will be reduced. For my property it is estimated to go up to $380 for the new levy. There will be some reduction in my property taxes to be determined, so I am in favor of making VPSD a separate IFD. Everyone should go to the calculator and see you individual impact and then make a decision.

[Kenswing]

I find this very confusing. Is there any possibility that, before the election, there will be informational meetings where both sides can present the arguments for and against the new district? And take questions from the audience?

That would be more useful than having the issue discussed on TOTV?
September 14th 7:00pm at Lake Miona Rec Center.

October 24th 7:00pm at Ezell Rec Center.

Chief Cane and others from Villages Public Safety will be there to present and answer questions.

[Goldwingnut]

The $124 MSBU Fire Assessment only pays about 20% of the total cost of funding both fire departments, the rest comes from the General Fund. If the IFD is approved the $124 MSBU assessment will be replaced by a similar MSBU in both fire districts that will collect the same $124 from the properties in each of the fire districts for the properties they serve. This will represent about $2.5M in the Sumter County FD budget and about $6.5 in the V IFD budget. The $124 never has and was never designed to pay for the entire fire service costs, it is a minimum that every property pays because there are many properties in the county that pay $0.00 in county property tax.

The BOCC in July issued a contract to a company to determine the Sumter County FD costs from the General Fund, once determined the entire amount and the VPSD cost allocation will be removed from the General Fund budget and the millage rate will be reduced to everyone in the County that will equal that amount. The is being done so that you the taxpayer is not double taxed for either the same service and don't get taxed for the fire service costs of the other fire district. THIS IS THE PART OF THE PICTURE THE OP AND THE OTHER NAYSAYERS HAVE CONTINIOUSLY NEGLECTED TO MENTION AND DON'T WANT YOU TO HEAR. YOUR PROPERTY TAX WILL DECREASE. Yes, there will be a new fire assessment MSTU that will replace some or all of the decrease depending on your property value.

The VPSD and District Staff do not discuss the millage rate decrease because it is not under their control. It would be irresponsible to do so. Just because they do not discuss it does not mean that it is not being addressed, it is being addressed by Sumter County even now.

Making these uneducated posts such as the OP has is irresponsible!

I am working on a video that I will put out in about a week or so that will attempt to explain ALL the parts of the IFD process and answer the questions and fears most common to most people.

From my vantage point the IFD is a good thing for Villages residents, and I'll vote in favor of it, as a Sumter County Commissioner the IFD brings with it its own set of major headaches that I and the other Commissioner have no control over initiating or stopping but will have to deal with. I'll try to explain these in the upcoming video.

[Bill14564]

I can see the estimate for the new levy on the district website. I thought we still don’t know how much the Sumter tax will be reduced. For my property it is estimated to go up to $380 for the new levy. There will be some reduction in my property taxes to be determined, so I am in favor of making VPSD a separate IFD. Everyone should go to the calculator and see you individual impact and then make a decision.

You are paying more than $124 today. Approximately 1/3 of your property taxes goes to fire prevention today.

You can find the projected budget for 2023-2024 in the BoCC minutes. They removed $28M of fire protection funding from expenses and $14M of property taxes from income. For me, this means they removed about $200 of the $450 I was paying for fire protection.

My best guess on the IFD is I will be paying somewhere between $60 and $400 more depending on the variable Ad-valorem portion. I expect it to be closer to the $60 but that depends on how much the fire protection budget is increased and how much the BoCC decreases property taxes.

[kansasr]

As the "OP" I'd suggest you re-read my post, where I definitely state that the Sumter County assessment will decrease. The problem is that we are being asked to vote on this without any clear idea as to what this decrease will be. I also don't think it's being a "nay-sayer" when pointing out that this new assessment will be based on the total value of your property. You will not be receiving any benefits from your exemptions, which for disabled veterans, is significant. I believe my post is well informed. I have done my homework.

[Bill14564]

...

The BOCC in July issued a contract to a company to determine the Sumter County FD costs from the General Fund, once determined the entire amount and the VPSD cost allocation will be removed from the General Fund budget and the millage rate will be reduced to everyone in the County that will equal that amount. The is being done so that you the taxpayer is not double taxed for either the same service and don't get taxed for the fire service costs of the other fire district. THIS IS THE PART OF THE PICTURE THE OP AND THE OTHER NAYSAYERS HAVE CONTINIOUSLY NEGLECTED TO MENTION AND DON'T WANT YOU TO HEAR. YOUR PROPERTY TAX WILL DECREASE. Yes, there will be a new fire assessment MSTU that will replace some or all of the decrease depending on your property value.


...

The projected 2023-2024 budget as of July has been published. While both the VPSD and the SCFD expenses have been removed, the millage HAS NOT been reduced in an equal amount. $28M of fire protection has been removed but only $14M of millage has been removed.

This is only a projected budget and will not be finalized for another 12 months or so. Things may change but what has been published so far does not look that good.

[Bilyclub]

It was the citizens of the Villages who showed up in large numbers at the commissioners meeting and caused the County Commission to not implement the recommendation of the committee. So, I assume you are okay with combining the two fire departments? If so, you are in the minority as almost universally Villagers wanted to keep their Fire Department separate from Sumter County. Of course Chief Cain wants to keep the Villages department separate.

That's what a referendum decides. If your opinion is that most Villagers want a separate fire district then you shouldn't sweat the little things like posts in TOTV.

[Altavia]

As the "OP" I'd suggest you re-read my post, where I definitely state that the Sumter County assessment will decrease. The problem is that we are being asked to vote on this without any clear idea as to what this decrease will be. I also don't think it's being a "nay-sayer" when pointing out that this new assessment will be based on the total value of your property. You will not be receiving any benefits from your exemptions, which for disabled veterans, is significant. I believe my post is well informed. I have done my homework.


"New Fire District Not Good for Veterans"


Really? Even if it helps saves Veterans lives in the community?

If it unfairly taxes a group, that's a different story. That I would hope could be addressed.

Don't throw the baby out with the bath water..

[Ritagoyer]

My fire assessment is $125. What are we talking, a savings of $10 - $15???

Isn’t having better ambulance response time, if you, your friend, your spouse needs ambulance worth it?

I think most of us have seen incidents with 30 - 40 minutes waits for the ambulance.
Would it be better to add a independent ambulance service to The Villages .

[Kenswing]

Would it be better to add a independent ambulance service to The Villages .

The main reason we’re going through all this is because AMR, the independent ambulance service sucked. We were only one of several counties in the state to still use independents. No matter what the results are as to whether The Villages becomes a stand alone department, we will have our own in-house ambulance service. The ambulances have already been purchased.

[Rainger99]

September 14th 7:00pm at Lake Miona Rec Center.

October 24th 7:00pm at Ezell Rec Center.

Chief Cane and others from Villages Public Safety will be there to present and answer questions.

Will both sides be there - or will it be just one side presenting their arguments? It is hard to get both sides down here.

[Kenswing]

Will both sides be there - or will it be just one side presenting their arguments? It is hard to get both sides down here.

As I stated in my post, Chief Cain and other members of The Villages Public Safety Department will be there.

You would need to check with the county to see if they are going to have any presentations. I do see that County Commissioner Wiley is compiling questions so he can put together a video to address peoples questions.

[Bilyclub]

Are any meetings such as the County Board and CDD Districts recorded and put on YouTube ? It would be nice if this fire district information meeting was put online.

[crash]

We need to remember the reason we went down this path to establish an independent fire district. The previous Sumter County commissioners decided to form a committee to recommend what to do with the fire department’s given the issue with ambulance response time. That committee, which included newly elected commissioner Jeff Bogue, recommended that the Sumter County and Villages fire departments be combined. There was immediate outrage from Villagers and the commission backed down and the idea of the IFD was born.

The purpose of the IFD is to take it out of Sumter County politics and ensure the Villages will have our own Fire Department addressing the needs of our citizens.

If you read the post from Don Wiley (Goldwingnut) he did a good job trying to explain what is going on. Bottom line, we will see a reduction in our county taxes because they will not be funding the Villages Fire Department. We will not know the exact amount of the cost until next June. But Don stated based on his analysis he does not believe there will be a significant overall change in what we pay. Your county taxes should go down and your fire assessment will go up.

I am interested in how you determined the 15% to 25% increase in the property taxes, do you mean fire assessment? The fire assessment is different from property taxes and no one has stated county property taxes will go up (as Don Wiley stated property taxes will go down because the county will no longer have to support the Villages Fire Department).

As a veteran myself I am very much in favor of establishing the IFD to get the Villages Fire Department out from under the political influence of the county commission.
It was Bradley Arnold that came up with The 20 proposals 5 of which eliminated the Villages fire department not the commissioners. That being said I am waiting for Dons information to make up my mind. I agree it is about control of the money but don’t want to pay more for the same service.

[crash]

The $124 MSBU Fire Assessment only pays about 20% of the total cost of funding both fire departments, the rest comes from the General Fund. If the IFD is approved the $124 MSBU assessment will be replaced by a similar MSBU in both fire districts that will collect the same $124 from the properties in each of the fire districts for the properties they serve. This will represent about $2.5M in the Sumter County FD budget and about $6.5 in the V IFD budget. The $124 never has and was never designed to pay for the entire fire service costs, it is a minimum that every property pays because there are many properties in the county that pay $0.00 in county property tax.

The BOCC in July issued a contract to a company to determine the Sumter County FD costs from the General Fund, once determined the entire amount and the VPSD cost allocation will be removed from the General Fund budget and the millage rate will be reduced to everyone in the County that will equal that amount. The is being done so that you the taxpayer is not double taxed for either the same service and don't get taxed for the fire service costs of the other fire district. THIS IS THE PART OF THE PICTURE THE OP AND THE OTHER NAYSAYERS HAVE CONTINIOUSLY NEGLECTED TO MENTION AND DON'T WANT YOU TO HEAR. YOUR PROPERTY TAX WILL DECREASE. Yes, there will be a new fire assessment MSTU that will replace some or all of the decrease depending on your property value.

The VPSD and District Staff do not discuss the millage rate decrease because it is not under their control. It would be irresponsible to do so. Just because they do not discuss it does not mean that it is not being addressed, it is being addressed by Sumter County even now.

Making these uneducated posts such as the OP has is irresponsible!

I am working on a video that I will put out in about a week or so that will attempt to explain ALL the parts of the IFD process and answer the questions and fears most common to most people.

From my vantage point the IFD is a good thing for Villages residents, and I'll vote in favor of it, as a Sumter County Commissioner the IFD brings with it its own set of major headaches that I and the other Commissioner have no control over initiating or stopping but will have to deal with. I'll try to explain these in the upcoming video.

Thank you Don this is exactly the kind of information we need and are not getting. There should be an article in the Daily Sun that would say exactly what you just posted here. Again thank you for your service to the residents.

[eeroger]

I remember some of that differently. It was the Fire Chief Cain who didn't want the merger and campaigned for an independent fire district.

Chief Cain does want the new IFD. New commissioner Jeff Bogue DEFINITELY voted to get rid of The Villages Fire Dept. We have to get our fire dept out of the County's funny money game.
The Villages Public Safety Dept needs to be independent of Sumter County. Look at how far behind the eight ball they are with their ambulance service.

[Romad]

Shockingly, a Democrat drafted a good explanation of the IFD. I recommend reading this, even with the unnecessary opinions in it.

Vote No on the Independent Fire District
by Democratic Candidate for State Representative District 54 Ash Marwah

Please vote NO on the Fire District because it is nothing but a tax increase on us. There are so many things wrong with it. Here are a couple of those wrong things:

1) We will be charged three different types of Fire Taxes:

First tax: $124 flat fee per parcel, that means everyone pays $124, a homeowner or Waterfront Inn or a commercial property, all pay this flat $124, which is totally unfair to homeowners when commercial properties are paying the same fee.

Second tax 0.75 mil on improvements on your property, which is your Market Value - Land Value (This tax will be based on the valuations in June 2023.)

For a house with market value of $350,000 and land value of $50,000 in June, 2023, this tax will amount to 0.75 (350-50) = $225. This tax is also unfair to homeowners because commercial properties have much higher land value, therefore their deduct from the Market Value is much higher, lowering their tax burden and in turn increasing the tax burden on homeowners.

The third Tax is a 1 mil tax on the assessed value of your house in June 2023. Let us say for the house with market value of $350,000 has an assessed value of $250,000 then this tax will amount to 1 X 250 = $250

This third tax of 1 mil may be applied partially, meaning half or quarter of the 1 mil depending on the need as determined by a new Board of the Fire District.

Together, these 3 taxes could add up to $150 to $600 more in taxes for you. Houses on the golf course or water front, which have higher land value will fare better than other houses.

2) The County should ideally reduce our taxes by the amount of increase in taxes in the Fire District, but they are not doing it.

3) The initial five-member Board of the Fire District is appointed by the Governor, 2 for 2 years and 3 for 4 years. That means for the first four years, we are at the mercy of the majority of 3 out of 5 Appointed Board. They can raise our Fire Taxes, make long term agreements with the Developer, borrow millions or issue bonds, etc. The list is endless, and we are voting in good faith that they will do right by us. What if they don't? What if they raise our Fire Taxes 25%? There is nothing we can do about it.

[john352]

I find this very confusing. Is there any possibility that, before the election, there will be informational meetings where both sides can present the arguments for and against the new district? And take questions from the audience?

That would be more useful than having the issue discussed on TOTV?

It will be covered in the October issue of the POA Bulletin.

[Bill14564]

Hopefully, below is a fair description of what is true today.

Shockingly, a Democrat drafted a good explanation of the IFD. I recommend reading this, even with the unnecessary opinions in it.

Vote No on the Independent Fire District
by Democratic Candidate for State Representative District 54 Ash Marwah

Please vote NO on the Fire District because it is nothing but a tax increase on us. There are so many things wrong with it. Here are a couple of those wrong things:

1) We will be charged three different types of Fire Taxes:

First tax: $124 flat fee per parcel, that means everyone pays $124, a homeowner or Waterfront Inn or a commercial property, all pay this flat $124, which is totally unfair to homeowners when commercial properties are paying the same fee.

Second tax 0.75 mil on improvements on your property, which is your Market Value - Land Value (This tax will be based on the valuations in June 2023.)

For a house with market value of $350,000 and land value of $50,000 in June, 2023, this tax will amount to 0.75 (350-50) = $225. This tax is also unfair to homeowners because commercial properties have much higher land value, therefore their deduct from the Market Value is much higher, lowering their tax burden and in turn increasing the tax burden on homeowners.

The third Tax is a 1 mil tax on the assessed value of your house in June 2023. Let us say for the house with market value of $350,000 has an assessed value of $250,000 then this tax will amount to 1 X 250 = $250

This third tax of 1 mil may be applied partially, meaning half or quarter of the 1 mil depending on the need as determined by a new Board of the Fire District.

Together, these 3 taxes could add up to $150 to $600 more in taxes for you. Houses on the golf course or water front, which have higher land value will fare better than other houses.

Fire prevention funding comes from two taxes today. The first is the $124 that is assessed to every property and the second is approximately 1.65mils of your property tax. For the $350,000 home with a $250,000 assessment that would be $124 + $412 = $536 today. (the numbers in the quote above add to $599 max with the IFD)

2) The County should ideally reduce our taxes by the amount of increase in taxes in the Fire District, but they are not doing it.

The projected budget for 2024, the first year the IFD would be in effect, show a $14M to $20M reduction in taxes. (NOTE: this is a projection an entire year in advance, the real budget won't be worked on until June 2023.) While I don't understand why the reduction isn't the full $28M, it is certainly more than nothing. Because it looks like property taxes will be reduced by less than $28M, I anticipate having to pay $60 more if the IFD passes.

3) The initial five-member Board of the Fire District is appointed by the Governor, 2 for 2 years and 3 for 4 years. That means for the first four years, we are at the mercy of the majority of 3 out of 5 Appointed Board. They can raise our Fire Taxes, make long term agreements with the Developer, borrow millions or issue bonds, etc. The list is endless, and we are voting in good faith that they will do right by us. What if they don't? What if they raise our Fire Taxes 25%? There is nothing we can do about it.

Currently, the VPSD falls under the Villages Center CDD (VCCDD). This CDD is a landowner appointed board meaning it is chosen by the Developer. If the IFD does not pass then the VPSD will remain in control of the Developer-appointed VCCDD. If the IFD passes then two and four years later we will vote for the Supervisors that control the IFD. So there is a choice: possible Developer control for four years or definite Developer control for the foreseeable future.

The VCCDD does not have the taxing authority the IFD would have so they cannot raise our fire protection taxes. However, we have been told time and again that a funding request from the VPSD has NEVER been turned down. That being the case, what is keeping the VCCDD from making a funding request today for 25% more and having it passed along like all their other requests have been?

The IFD has risks but keeping things the way they are has risks too. I think it's a good sign that the VPSD is providing information and answers. The IFD page on districtgov.org even has a calculator to show what your IFD tax should be. On the other hand, while I have heard why the IFD would be a good thing, I wish they would spend time explaining why declining the IFD would be a bad thing.

[RedBaron]

This vote doesn’t affect ambulance service. That decision is set in stone and begins Oct. 1.

[RedBaron]

The main reason we’re going through all this is because AMR, the independent ambulance service sucked. We were only one of several counties in the state to still use independents. No matter what the results are as to whether The Villages becomes a stand alone department, we will have our own in-house ambulance service. The ambulances have already been purchased.
Please! This does not affect ambulance service. It is already set in stone to start Oct.1.

[Kenswing]

Please! This does not affect ambulance service. It is already set in stone to start Oct.1.
I never said that the vote affected ambulance service. What started the ball rolling for an IFD was the county addressing the ambulance service. When they had their "Committee" meetings to address the sub-par ambulance service some of the proposals included combining The Villages Fire Department into the county. That didn't sit well with a lot of people. So here we are deciding whether we want to be our own fire district.

[G.R.I.T.S.]

The district government has posted a link where you can calculate what your new tax bill will be for the proposed fire district:
Florida Fire districts quicksearch (https://dtapf.com/simplified/villages)
I suggest you check it out if you're a disabled veteran or even someone who has a significant save our homes deduction.
Neither of these benefits are applicable for the fire district assessment. Instead, it is based upon the total market value (relative improvement value)
Depending upon the level of disable veteran discount and/or save our homes allowances, property taxes could increase anywhere from 15% to 25%.
I seriously doubt the homes are going to see a similar reduction in their Sumter County taxes when the adjustment is calculated for the new fire district.

I believe that's the way it's always been...an "above the line" item relating to tax exemptions. Brett Hage didn't "leave that one" for us, as stated in another reply.

[Luggage]

so you prefer to wait one hour for an ambulance to save a few bucks ?

[john352]

Are any meetings such as the County Board and CDD Districts recorded and put on YouTube ? It would be nice if this fire district information meeting was put online.

POA SPECIAL MEETING

September 29, 2022, • 7 pm

LAUREL MANOR RECREATION CENTER

Speaker: The Villages Fire Chief Edmund Cain

Topic: Proposed Independent Fire District

This meeting will NOT be live streamed, but it will be videotaped and should be available the next day on the POA website.

You only need a Village ID to attend the meeting live.
It only costs $10 per year per household to join the POA this year; the cost is $15 starting Jan 1, 2023.

[Bilyclub]

POA SPECIAL MEETING

September 29, 2022, • 7 pm

LAUREL MANOR RECREATION CENTER

Speaker: The Villages Fire Chief Edmund Cain

Topic: Proposed Independent Fire District

This meeting will NOT be live streamed, but it will be videotaped and should be available the next day on the POA website.

You only need a Village ID to attend the meeting live.
It only costs $10 per year per household to join the POA this year; the cost is $15 starting Jan 1, 2023.




Thanks

[Romad]

I never said that the vote affected ambulance service. What started the ball rolling for an IFD was the county addressing the ambulance service. When they had their "Committee" meetings to address the sub-par ambulance service some of the proposals included combining The Villages Fire Department into the county. That didn't sit well with a lot of people. So here we are deciding whether we want to be our own fire district.

Yes, the county supervisors addressed the ambulance issue.

The fire department mafia hijacked the committee so they could be completely independent and raise as much as they wanted…from us. For all the gnashing of teeth over the property tax increase a few years ago, this will make that look like small change.

[Kenswing]

Yes, the county supervisors addressed the ambulance issue.

The fire department mafia hijacked the committee so they could be completely independent and raise as much as they wanted…from us. For all the gnashing of teeth over the property tax increase a few years ago, this will make that look like small change.

Now your colors are showing.. :1rotfl: :1rotfl: :1rotfl:

[TrapX]

I'm still trying to understand the funding. Not just mine, but for the entire proposal. The more I look at several published sources, the more I see they collectively they don't seem to add up.
It's been publicly stated that the fire budget will be the same no matter if the district is approved or not. The money comes from taxing residential properties plus commercial properties. Budget = Resident + Commercial
On The Villages Independent Fire Control and Rescue District (https://districtgov.org/departments/Public-Safety/independent-fire-control-and-rescue-district.aspx) it shows both taxes are going up. That math fails. Is the budget going way up? Is money being diverted to be spent elsewhere? Are other commercial properties going to get a huge reduction? Why are these types of questions not getting answered?

[Bill14564]

I'm still trying to understand the funding. Not just mine, but for the entire proposal. The more I look at several published sources, the more I see they collectively they don't seem to add up.
It's been publicly stated that the fire budget will be the same no matter if the district is approved or not. The money comes from taxing residential properties plus commercial properties. Budget = Resident + Commercial
On The Villages Independent Fire Control and Rescue District (https://districtgov.org/departments/Public-Safety/independent-fire-control-and-rescue-district.aspx) it shows both taxes are going up. That math fails. Is the budget going way up? Is money being diverted to be spent elsewhere? Are other commercial properties going to get a huge reduction? Why are these types of questions not getting answered?

Why are these questions not getting answered? Well, where were they asked? ToTV is not an official communications channel with the VPSD, VCCDD, or BoCC so it is no surprise that no official answer has been posted here. If the questions have been presented through appropriate channels then that *should* receive an official answer.

My guess: The "numbers people" came up with the chart and most of the officials at the Q&A sessions don't know the answer.

My current thinking: Either the 0.71mils used for the "Current Process" was completely made up or it is misleading. In any case, it isn't a number you can easily find on your tax bill and is not a true indication of how much the current service costs.

I used numbers from the FY 22-23 Proforma Budget Doc to find how much is currently being collected for fire services and how much is being sent to the VPSD.

From my calculations it seems that 1.65mils of our property taxes are used to fund the two fire services with about 0.67mils going to the VPSD. This is pretty close to the 0.71mils used for the "Current Process" column.

However, this is 0.67mils collected from everyone in the county. If the IFD is passed then the funding will only come from the 75% of the county that resides within the new district. To get to the same funding with only 75% of the properties something close to 0.89mils will need to be collected.

So to my mind, a better "Current Process" column would use 0.89mils and would show larger numbers. But since the table doesn't use that higher millage it makes it looks like everyone's taxes will increase in order to keep the budget number the same (which doesn't make sense).

This also suggests an answer to another question about the accuracy of the Assessment Rate Calculator. The "Simplified Method" collects 0.75mils but it looks like 0.89mils is needed to keep the IFD funding at the same level as the current VPSD funding. This might explain why the Calculator adds 0.1mils for the ad-valorem portion of the assessment.

NOTE: Since both the VPSD and the SCFD funding will be removed from the General Fund in 2024 we should look for our millage to be reduced from the 2024 rollback rate by about 1.65mils. The current projection for the 2024 budget does not seem to show this, even with another large increase in the tax base. Either fire service funding is coming from another source hiding in the revenue side or there is a tax increase planned. We need to watch for this and ask questions next year.

[Sandy and Ed]

I find this very confusing. Is there any possibility that, before the election, there will be informational meetings where both sides can present the arguments for and against the new district? And take questions from the audience?

That would be more useful than having the issue discussed on TOTV?
They did and they closed me down when asked how they could initially fund the bricks and mortar, equipment and response infrastructure for the substantial area south of the villages that will be included in the new district. Pretty sure we will be seeing an additional mil added to the bill to fund this capital outlay. Also probably layers of bureaucracy. Lipstick on a pig.

[Bill14564]

They did and they closed me down when asked how they could initially fund the bricks and mortar, equipment and response infrastructure for the substantial area south of the villages that will be included in the new district. Pretty sure we will be seeing an additional mil added to the bill to fund this capital outlay. Also probably layers of bureaucracy. Lipstick on a pig.

The ad valorem amount cannot be greater than 1 mil without another referendum to increase it. We cannot see "an additional mil added to the bill" since we can only see 1 mil max.

One way they *could* fund the infrastructure for the growth in the new southern area is through the same method used in the past. Another way they *could* fund it is through the 1 mil provided for in the current referendum. In either case, any new stations required by that growth will exist and will be funded; the existence of the IFD does not change that at all.

Layers of bureaucracy? Five Commissioners.

[Sabella]

It will be covered in the October issue of the POA Bulletin.

The property owners association (POA) is committed to acting as a watchdog to ensure that the Developer and local government are responsive to the needs, interests and rights of residents. October issue says no support for this- now. READ IT - READ the reasons stated and hopefully you will vote against it for now.

[twoplanekid]

so you prefer to wait one hour for an ambulance to save a few bucks ?

I still have many questions as to the increase in costs. However, it is my understanding that the new ambulances are already in service by the Village Fire Services so the issue of wait time will not improve or diminish with the approval or not of this New Fire District. But cost will increase at a larger rate if a new Fire District is created?

[Bilyclub]

My fire assessment is $125. What are we talking, a savings of $10 - $15???

Isn’t having better ambulance response time, if you, your friend, your spouse needs ambulance worth it?

I think most of us have seen incidents with 30 - 40 minutes waits for the ambulance.


The ambulance service has nothing to do with whether or not there is an independent fire district.

[twoplanekid]

The ambulance service has nothing to do with whether or not there is an independent fire district.

That is also my understand so why the cost increase if we vote for the Fire District? As all Village CDDs have a percentage of their funds allocated for District staff, I am sure that a new Fire District would also have funds used for this same purpose which is reasonable. However, the more CDDs created with more funds going into the district staff funds pot doesn't seem to reduce the funds my board is always required to provide. Is there a cost saving? I am not sure.

[Bill14564]

That is also my understand so why the cost increase if we vote for the Fire District? As all Village CDDs have a percentage of their funds allocated for District staff, I am sure that a new Fire District would also have funds used for this same purpose which is reasonable. However, the more CDDs created with more funds going into the district staff funds pot doesn't seem to reduce the funds my board is always required to provide. Is there a cost saving? I am not sure.

It's complicated.

Today you pay $124 plus about 1.63 mils for fire service. The 1.63 mils funds both the VPSD and the SCFD.

If the IFD is put in place and IF a separate tax is levied on the non-Villagers for the SCFD and IF the Sumter County BoCC doesn't increase taxes THEN you will only pay something like $124 plus about 0.99 mils for the VPSD. HOWEVER:
- The BoCC *might* continue to fund the SCFD through the general fund which means we will be taxed for that as well
- The BoCC *might* take the opportunity to effectively increase taxes by not reducing the millage as much as they should (they would still talk about a decrease but it would be less of a decrease then we would expect)

Overall cost savings? Probably not. The VPSD will still have the same expenses as before. The IFD will require five new commissioners and any administrative costs that go along with that (printing costs, scheduling costs, lawyer costs, etc). Much of this would probably be accomplished through utilizing the staff on the VCCDD similar to the other CDDs but there would be some nominal cost for that.

The benefit of the IFD, the reason for a "yes" vote, is the protection of the VPSD and the new ambulances from any changes by the BoCC. The ambulances are part of the VPSD as of this month and only because the BoCC decided to go that route. There is nothing preventing them from deciding next year to take the service away from the VPSD and go with a centralized, Sumter County ambulance service. During the discussions for the ambulance one of the members of the ad-hoc committee voted to merge the VPSD and SCFD. He was in an advisory position at that time but he is now one of the BoCC. There is nothing preventing the BoCC from deciding to essentially end the VPSD by voting to merge the two. A vote for the IFD is a vote to protect the VPSD from the BoCC.

[twoplanekid]

It's complicated.

Today you pay $124 plus about 1.63 mils for fire service. The 1.63 mils funds both the VPSD and the SCFD.

If the IFD is put in place and IF a separate tax is levied on the non-Villagers for the SCFD and IF the Sumter County BoCC doesn't increase taxes THEN you will only pay something like $124 plus about 0.99 mils for the VPSD. HOWEVER:
- The BoCC *might* continue to fund the SCFD through the general fund which means we will be taxed for that as well
- The BoCC *might* take the opportunity to effectively increase taxes by not reducing the millage as much as they should (they would still talk about a decrease but it would be less of a decrease then we would expect)

Overall cost savings? Probably not. The VPSD will still have the same expenses as before. The IFD will require five new commissioners and any administrative costs that go along with that (printing costs, scheduling costs, lawyer costs, etc). Much of this would probably be accomplished through utilizing the staff on the VCCDD similar to the other CDDs but there would be some nominal cost for that.

The benefit of the IFD, the reason for a "yes" vote, is the protection of the VPSD and the new ambulances from any changes by the BoCC. The ambulances are part of the VPSD as of this month and only because the BoCC decided to go that route. There is nothing preventing them from deciding next year to take the service away from the VPSD and go with a centralized, Sumter County ambulance service. During the discussions for the ambulance one of the members of the ad-hoc committee voted to merge the VPSD and SCFD. He was in an advisory position at that time but he is now one of the BoCC. There is nothing preventing the BoCC from deciding to essentially end the VPSD by voting to merge the two. A vote for the IFD is a vote to protect the VPSD from the BoCC.

As I know some of the people on the Sumter BoCC personally to then trust them and don't know anyone on the yet to be created Fire District board, your thoughts lead me more and more in one direction than another. Plus cost are an important.

[Dond1959]

As I know some of the people on the Sumter BoCC personally to then trust them and don't know anyone on the yet to be created Fire District board, your thoughts lead me more and more in one direction than another. Plus cost are an important.

Can you guarantee those on the BoCC that you “trust” will be on the board in 10, 15, or 20 years from now? People need to remember we were one vote away from combining VPSD and SCFD. Take the politics out of the process and approve the IFD.

[Bill14564]

As I know some of the people on the Sumter BoCC personally to then trust them and don't know anyone on the yet to be created Fire District board, your thoughts lead me more and more in one direction than another. Plus cost are an important.

You trust them in what way?

I stated:
- They might fund the SCFD through the general fund. The last I read is they have a study going to determine how to fund the SCFD. I believe they will find that a separate tax for the non-Villagers will be unacceptably high. The SCFD will need to be funded somehow and if a non-Villager tax won't do it then it will come from the general fund which means it will come from you and me.

- They might reduce the millage rate by less than the amount currently used for fire service. This is in their 2024 budget projections right now! $28M of fire service expenses have been removed but the ad valorem revenue has been reduced by only about $14M (possibly $18M but certainly not $28M). These are just projections so maybe they will be modified next June when the real numbers are available.

- They might decide to combine the VPSD and SCFD. This has already been proposed by one of the board members (I think more than one but can't find anything to back that up). When the study reveals that the cost of a separate SCFD is too high, it could easily be argued that combining the services would be more efficient. The BoCC would be taking the fiscally responsible action for all the residents of Sumter County.

Costs are important but not as important as the quality of the service. When you are kneeling next to someone who needs care and you are on the phone asking 911 how long it will take to get help to your door, an extra $10 or $100 per year will seem like a tiny price to pay for the answer to be five minutes rather than 35.

[valuemkt]

Another post that sensationalizes percentages instead of real dollars. Fire districts should look at how your property is protected. You can always live in the wilderness and pour well water on your burning house

[kkingston57]

My fire assessment is $125. What are we talking, a savings of $10 - $15???

Isn’t having better ambulance response time, if you, your friend, your spouse needs ambulance worth it?

I think most of us have seen incidents with 30 - 40 minutes waits for the ambulance.

Thanks for the better breakdown. Original article was misleading and suggested that total taxes were going up significantly and writer failed to state that property tax rates are capped. 20% on $125 is $25.00 or $2.08 a month

[Keefelane66]

The district government has posted a link where you can calculate what your new tax bill will be for the proposed fire district:
Florida Fire districts quicksearch (https://dtapf.com/simplified/villages)
I suggest you check it out if you're a disabled veteran or even someone who has a significant save our homes deduction.
Neither of these benefits are applicable for the fire district assessment. Instead, it is based upon the total market value (relative improvement value)
Depending upon the level of disable veteran discount and/or save our homes allowances, property taxes could increase anywhere from 15% to 25%.
I seriously doubt the homes are going to see a similar reduction in their Sumter County taxes when the adjustment is calculated for the new fire district.
It's just a way of scamming people out of more tax money. We already have an almost 1/2 mile walking trail that was pushed through now finding out its to narrow who signed off on that fiasco

[Bilyclub]

You trust them in what way?

I stated:
- They might fund the SCFD through the general fund. The last I read is they have a study going to determine how to fund the SCFD. I believe they will find that a separate tax for the non-Villagers will be unacceptably high. The SCFD will need to be funded somehow and if a non-Villager tax won't do it then it will come from the general fund which means it will come from you and me.

- They might reduce the millage rate by less than the amount currently used for fire service. This is in their 2024 budget projections right now! $28M of fire service expenses have been removed but the ad valorem revenue has been reduced by only about $14M (possibly $18M but certainly not $28M). These are just projections so maybe they will be modified next June when the real numbers are available.

- They might decide to combine the VPSD and SCFD. This has already been proposed by one of the board members (I think more than one but can't find anything to back that up). When the study reveals that the cost of a separate SCFD is too high, it could easily be argued that combining the services would be more efficient. The BoCC would be taking the fiscally responsible action for all the residents of Sumter County.

Costs are important but not as important as the quality of the service. When you are kneeling next to someone who needs care and you are on the phone asking 911 how long it will take to get help to your door, an extra $10 or $100 per year will seem like a tiny price to pay for the answer to be five minutes rather than 35.


So you are saying we are going to pay higher taxes no matter which way the vote goes and the added prospect of losing the independent TV department.

[Bill14564]

So you are saying we are going to pay higher taxes no matter which way the vote goes and the added prospect of losing the independent TV department.

Yes, that's the way the numbers and the history look to me.