A few snap shots from Ecuador 0 at my AirBnB

[MartinSE]

I was planning to come here next month to finish my Dental Implants which got delayed by COVID. But I cracked a tooth and needed to come early.

Here are a few snapshots from my front porch and the AirBnB's dog (who is waving to say hello to yall).

I love this country - its climate, friendly people, everything about it. Being on the equator, it has no seasons, and the sun's up and down times remain the same all year.

It is a very poor country, but the people don't sit around complaining - they are so happy and friendly and welcoming. Around 10,000 American ex-pats have migrated there so far.

NOTE: the Red Rose is about done, but I wanted to photograph it; it is over 4 inches in diameter!

Anyway, these are just some snapshots of my front porch - this is a 1 bedroom 1 bath with shower, kitchen, living room, patio, balcony - for $20/day. I had breakfast at a "fast food" stand in front of a shopping center this morning, where I went to get some groceries. I had a Ham and Chees panini with Avacado, I blueberry muffin, a bottle of Mondrian Orange soda, and a Capacino for $3,50. The taxi ride back to the apartment was $1.75. As a senior, you can go anywhere in Cuenca (the city I am in) for $0.25 on a new natural-gas-powered bus or take a taxi for $2.50.

[manaboutown]

Flowers are grown commercially in the area. Those in your photos are beautiful.

Do you enjoy eating the cuy and hornado?

A friend of mine spent some time in Quito and then two years in Asuncion, Paraguay while growing up. His father was stationed at the US embassies in those countries by LBJ. He enjoyed his time there, especially being chauffeured around in limousines. lol

Are you fluent in Spanish?

[jebartle]

Where is Equadog, he would love this post. My brother-in-law, after living there for year, rode the bus, 2 times too many, had wallet and camera stolen, beware.

[MartinSE]

Flowers are grown commercially in the area. Those in your photos are beautiful.

Do you enjoy eating the cuy and hornado?

A friend of mine spent some time in Quito and then two years in Asuncion, Paraguay while growing up. His father was stationed at the US embassies in those countries by LBJ. He enjoyed his time there, especially being chauffeured around in limousines. lol

Are you fluent in Spanish?

I love Ecuadorian food. I have not ridden in a limo since I got here, and stay in the "low rent" districts and eat and mingle with the poor.


The US embassy was kicked out of Ecuador because we used them as staging areas for S. American CIA missions in violation of the agreements we signed to get permission to place the bases there.

[MartinSE]

Where is Equadog, he would love this post. My brother-in-law, after living there for year, rode the bus, 2 times too many, had wallet and camera stolen, beware.

Well, that is one case out of 10,000.

But, seriously, I don't claim this is heaven on earth. I don't claim there is no danger. People's homes have been broken into here in TV. Beware.

[manaboutown]

[QUOTE=MartinSE;2144449]I love Ecuadorian food. I have not ridden in a limo since I got here, and stay in the "low rent" districts and eat and mingle with the poor.

The US embassy was kicked out of Ecuador because we used them as staging areas for S. American CIA missions in violation of the agreements we signed to get permission to place the bases there.[/QUOTE

So you love eating cuy (guinea pig)?

The poor you find so "friendly" may not be as happy and carefree as you profess they are...They may not sit around complaining but they do "demonstrate".

"Country Summary: Crime is a widespread problem in Ecuador. Violent crime, such as murder, assault, express kidnapping, and armed robbery, is common. Transnational criminal organizations and gangs operate in Carchi, Sucumbíos, and the northern part of Esmeraldas provinces, as well as in Guayaquil, south of Portete de Tarquí Avenue.

Demonstrations occur regularly throughout the country. Public demonstrations can take place for a variety of political and economic issues. Demonstrations can cause the shutdown of local roads and major highways, often without prior notice or estimated reopening timelines. Road closures may significantly reduce access to public transportation and airports and may disrupt travel both within and between cities."

From: Ecuador Travel Advisory (https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/ecuador-travel-advisory.html)


My friend was there during the LBJ years. Are you referring to this in 2011? The Ecuadorian police force was exposed as corrupt so they kicked out the US ambassador.

"Ecuador has announced it is expelling the US ambassador in Quito.
The move follows the release on Monday by the whistle-blowing website Wikileaks of a US diplomatic cable alleging widespread corruption within the Ecuadorean police force."

From: Ecuador expels US ambassador over Wikileaks cable - BBC News (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-12979967)

or this:

"QUITO, Feb 21 (Reuters) - The U.S. Embassy official Ecuador kicked out this week on charges of meddling in national affairs was the head of the CIA in the drug-smuggling route country, President Rafael Correa said on Saturday.

But a U.S. Embassy spokeswoman declined to comment on Correa’s account that the expelled official ran CIA operations in the Andean country, which is a crucial drug-smuggling route to drug gangs in neighboring Colombia and Peru.

Correa, a leftist ally of U.S. foe Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, expelled Mark Sullivan over charges he tried to handpick an officer heading a police unit partly financed by the United States."

From: Ecuador says expelled U.S. official was CIA operative | Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/article/ecuador-usa-cia-idUKN2131245320090221)

[Ecuadog]

Where is Equadog, he would love this post. My brother-in-law, after living there for year, rode the bus, 2 times too many, had wallet and camera stolen, beware.

I'm here and this post does pique my interest. I hope your BIL is safely back here in the USA where petty crime is unheard-of.

I have been traveling to Ecuador regularly for over 40 years and have never felt unsafe, but I like to think that I am smart enough to avoid certain areas, no matter where I go in the world.

I have eaten cuy-stuffed ravioli. My favorite Ecuadorian dishes are Shrimp Ceviche, Puerco Hornado and Fanesca.

Today, the US Ambassador to Ecuador is Michael J. Fitzpatrick. I believe that Ecuador announced the expelling of the US ambassador back in 2011 when Rafael Correa was president. Correa, now living in Belgium, has since been sentenced in absentia to eight years in prison for bribery.

[DaleDivine]

I was planning to come here next month to finish my Dental Implants which got delayed by COVID. But I cracked a tooth and needed to come early.

Here are a few snapshots from my front porch and the AirBnB's dog (who is waving to say hello to yall).

I love this country - its climate, friendly people, everything about it. Being on the equator, it has no seasons, and the sun's up and down times remain the same all year.

It is a very poor country, but the people don't sit around complaining - they are so happy and friendly and welcoming. Around 10,000 American ex-pats have migrated there so far.

NOTE: the Red Rose is about done, but I wanted to photograph it; it is over 4 inches in diameter!

Anyway, these are just some snapshots of my front porch - this is a 1 bedroom 1 bath with shower, kitchen, living room, patio, balcony - for $20/day. I had breakfast at a "fast food" stand in front of a shopping center this morning, where I went to get some groceries. I had a Ham and Chees panini with Avacado, I blueberry muffin, a bottle of Mondrian Orange soda, and a Capacino for $3,50. The taxi ride back to the apartment was $1.75. As a senior, you can go anywhere in Cuenca (the city I am in) for $0.25 on a new natural-gas-powered bus or take a taxi for $2.50.

Beautiful... Stay safe...
:thumbup::thumbup:

[airstreamingypsy]

Lucky you, I've been checking countries out....depending on how the 2024 election goes. I hadn't thought of Ecuador. Will add it to my list.

[JayBee]

So do tell us what is will cost for implants ? What were you quoted here in the states?

[MartinSE]

So do tell us what is will cost for implants ? What were you quoted here in the states?

Obviously, it depends on what you need.

My work involved sinus lifts on both sides, bone grafts to replace bone lost over the years, and the extraction of 4 teeth. I have had 3 implants on the upper left and two on the upper right. Various other detail work done while here, deep cleanings, cleanings, fillings, etc

I will be getting a bridge on the upper left to hold 4 or 5 crowns, and either two crowns or a bridge and two crowns on the upper right,

I was quoted, 4 years ago, $24,000 by my dentist here. My total costs, including flights, room, and board, for my wife and me, though she only came once, will be around $12,000 to $16,0000, depending. The cost to you will vary obviously,

The dental work, when you compare prices of individual parts, typically amounts to about 1/4 to 1/3 of the cost here. For example, my wife just had a crown here, it cost $1,500 for everything. In Ecuador, my dentist here charges $400 for the crown and another $100 or so for the prep., i.e., root canal or whoever you need. So, around $500 - or maybe $600. And the time to complete a single process, like if you want a crown, if faster, I don't recall now but I think it took a week to get into the dentist and another couple weeks to get the crown install - for my wife. Here in Cuenca I always cal ahead to make an appointment, and he always says, just walk in when you get here. I do, and he always gets me in. Typically a crown can be done the same day or in a day or two. He works with a lab that makes the crowns on demand. I have one crown he put in 3 years ago and have had no problems with it.

The flight cost has increased considerably since I started this process 3 years ago, before COVID. Then round trip on American Airlines was around $500 to $600 for a coach. On this trip, I flew Avianca, and it is about $1000 round trip. I always book a rate that allows rescheduling or canceling with no penalty, so I can reschedule the return if anything causes a delay. The cost will be much more if you fly first class or on other days of the week.

Room and board are personal. I always stay in lower-cost areas. They are typically where "Rich" Americans don't stay. If you stay in tourist areas or Expat areas, the cost is significantly higher.

As I said at the start, your cost will vary depending on what you have done, how you get here, where you stay, where you eat, etc.

[Carla B]

In the mid-sixties my husband was given a grant by the US Aid Dept. to spend six weeks in Guayaquil consulting with their university's Dept. of Business Administration. I had never been out of the country, except for a short trip or two to cosmopolitan Mexico City and had a lot of apprehension about being on our own in a 3rd World country.

However, after only one night in a small dismal hotel, my husband met an American colleague and wife (on leave from U. of Illinois) and they invited us to room and board in their large rented 2-story house in a nice neighborhood called Barrio Centenario. Two live-in maids handled all the cleaning, laundry, marketing and cooking at a cost to us of $12 per day, which left a good part of our daily stipend unspent.

We adjusted to living without air conditioning in the warmth and humidity of Guayaquil. The windows were always open. Every morning the orange juice vendor would wake us when he came to the neighborhood pushing his noisy wooden cart down the street, yelling "Naranja, Naranja."

Our hosts invited us on excursions in the new Chevrolet sedan they had brought in duty-free. He was an American of East Indian descent from Trinidad and fluent in Spanish, an enormous advantage for two naive tourists. We visited a Peace Corps town where buzzards flew over the funeral home and pigs and chickens roamed the dirt streets. But most of all, I'll never the forget the trip on the weekend we went to Quito. We drove from humid coastal Guayaquil, up the West side of the Andes, all green and verdant, and down the East side, where the climate suddenly gave way to cool and golden plains inhabited by numerous llamas and a mountainous volcano in the distance. On the way up we stopped to visit an Indian settlement and sampled our first Pisco sour.

We settled easily into the rhythm of daily life and enjoyed the cultural differences from life in the U.S., aside from the flies feasting on the raw meat hanging at the outside markets. The maids pre-washed all our food in a weak solution of nonpotable water and bleach and, thankfully, we never got sick.

The guys worked most week days but there were frequent strikes by various segments of the work force that would disrupt commercial or government services. One time a "general" strike disabled all services for a few days. Once my friend and I were locked in a super market for a short time due to a small riot. On the days of the strikes there was not much to do except stay home and play cards. We were warned of petty crime and I lost an item from my purse to a pick pocket.

The neighborhood was social and we became friends with a semi-retired doctor and his wife. There were many gatherings at our house or theirs and their extended families. Special were the pig roasts held in celebration of the return of somebody's son, nephew, cousin from schooling in the U.S. I noticed that the wives at these functions always prepared and served their husbands' plates before preparing their own and, in general, always deferred to the husband.

When the six--week assignment was nearly ended, my husband's boss, Prof. Nudd, arrived from Houston and that was cause for a going-away party hosted at our house on the night of our leaving. There were two hired bartenders and the maids had prepared a big spread. The time arrived for the three of us to leave for Guayaquil airport. So instead of shutting the party down, the bartenders simply picked up the portable bar and liquor and moved the entire party to the airport lobby for all to enjoy.

By then, I was comfortable with life in Ecuador; it was a bit of a culture shock when we returned. And flying was a lot different then!

[MartinSE]

In the mid-sixties my husband was given a grant by the US Aid Dept. to spend six weeks in Guayaquil consulting with their university's Dept. of Business Administration. I had never been out of the country, except for a short trip or two to cosmopolitan Mexico City and had a lot of apprehension about being on our own in a 3rd World country.

However, after only one night in a small dismal hotel, my husband met an American colleague and wife (on leave from U. of Illinois) and they invited us to room and board in their large rented 2-story house in a nice neighborhood called Barrio Centenario. Two live-in maids handled all the cleaning, laundry, marketing and cooking at a cost to us of $12 per day, which left a good part of our daily stipend unspent.

We adjusted to living without air conditioning in the warmth and humidity of Guayaquil. The windows were always open. Every morning the orange juice vendor would wake us when he came to the neighborhood pushing his noisy wooden cart down the street, yelling "Naranja, Naranja."

Our hosts invited us on excursions in the new Chevrolet sedan they had brought in duty-free. He was an American of East Indian descent from Trinidad and fluent in Spanish, an enormous advantage for two naive tourists. We visited a Peace Corps town where buzzards flew over the funeral home and pigs and chickens roamed the dirt streets. But most of all, I'll never the forget the trip on the weekend we went to Quito. We drove from humid coastal Guayaquil, up the West side of the Andes, all green and verdant, and down the East side, where the climate suddenly gave way to cool and golden plains inhabited by numerous llamas and a mountainous volcano in the distance. On the way up we stopped to visit an Indian settlement and sampled our first Pisco sour.

We settled easily into the rhythm of daily life and enjoyed the cultural differences from life in the U.S., aside from the flies feasting on the raw meat hanging at the outside markets. The maids pre-washed all our food in a weak solution of nonpotable water and bleach and, thankfully, we never got sick.

The guys worked most week days but there were frequent strikes by various segments of the work force that would disrupt commercial or government services. One time a "general" strike disabled all services for a few days. Once my friend and I were locked in a super market for a short time due to a small riot. On the days of the strikes there was not much to do except stay home and play cards. We were warned of petty crime and I lost an item from my purse to a pick pocket.

The neighborhood was social and we became friends with a semi-retired doctor and his wife. There were many gatherings at our house or theirs and their extended families. Special were the pig roasts held in celebration of the return of somebody's son, nephew, cousin from schooling in the U.S. I noticed that the wives at these functions always prepared and served their husbands' plates before preparing their own and, in general, always deferred to the husband.

When the six--week assignment was nearly ended, my husband's boss, Prof. Nudd, arrived from Houston and that was cause for a going-away party hosted at our house on the night of our leaving. There were two hired bartenders and the maids had prepared a big spread. The time arrived for the three of us to leave for Guayaquil airport. So instead of shutting the party down, the bartenders simply picked up the portable bar and liquor and moved the entire party to the airport lobby for all to enjoy.

By then, I was comfortable with life in Ecuador; it was a bit of a culture shock when we returned. And flying was a lot different then!

Excellent post. Thank you.

I have been to Guayaquil once (I lost my Passport and had to go there to get a new one). I think once is far more than enough in Guayaquil for me. I don't know what it was like back then, but recently it is a dirty industrial town with a very high crime rate and crowded everywhere. And "dismal" would be a kind way to describe the room I had there. Ugh...

Ecuador has a long history of socialism, the most recent Presidential election went to the Conservative Candidate, which here would be called a communist - LOL. But, it is all relative.

As with most (all?) S. American counties, the politics are turbulent. The politicians promise everything and mostly pad their own bank accounts. And, of course, the "OTHER" guy is the corrupt one, Very strong opinions on both sides, and it sometimes breaks out into violence. Glad it is not like that here. Ahem.

I have not spent any time in Quito other than flying into Ecuador. Most (all?) flights go through Quito and connect with domestic flights to other places.

I spend most of my time in Cuenca, which is a "larger" city. I have explored the countryside east of Cuenca, and your description rings very true, a very lovely country.

And yes, excellent choice of words, "culture shock". If you are looking for a suburb of a US town, you are going to be very disappointed. I refuse to participate in most of the ex-pat activities. Most of my experience with Expats in Ecuador is they sit around and bitch about how different it is from "back home" and how they want it to change to be more like where they come from. (Sounds a lot like some people here in TV - ahem.)

I guess if you love it here, don't move there.

[Aces4]

Excellent post. Thank you.

I have been to Guayaquil once (I lost my Passport and had to go there to get a new one). I think once is far more than enough in Guayaquil for me. I don't know what it was like back then, but recently it is a dirty industrial town with a very high crime rate and crowded everywhere. And "dismal" would be a kind way to describe the room I had there. Ugh...

Ecuador has a long history of socialism, the most recent Presidential election went to the Conservative Candidate, which here would be called a communist - LOL. But, it is all relative.

As with most (all?) S. American counties, the politics are turbulent. The politicians promise everything and mostly pad their own bank accounts. And, of course, the "OTHER" guy is the corrupt one, Very strong opinions on both sides, and it sometimes breaks out into violence. Glad it is not like that here. Ahem.

I have not spent any time in Quito other than flying into Ecuador. Most (all?) flights go through Quito and connect with domestic flights to other places.

I spend most of my time in Cuenca, which is a "larger" city. I have explored the countryside east of Cuenca, and your description rings very true, a very lovely country.

And yes, excellent choice of words, "culture shock". If you are looking for a suburb of a US town, you are going to be very disappointed. I refuse to participate in most of the ex-pat activities. Most of my experience with Expats in Ecuador is they sit around and bitch about how different it is from "back home" and how they want it to change to be more like where they come from. (Sounds a lot like some people here in TV - ahem.)

I guess if you love it here, don't move there.


I’m okay with anyone who wants to fly into a third world or developing country for their health or dental care but I would not be interested in the least.

I have to ask, do you have a dentist in the USA who will clean up any emergency situations that may develop because of your Ecuadorian dental procedures. Emergencies such as an oral sepsis or low virulence infection, failed bone graft or improper crown fitting for example that require prompt and urgent attention.

It is a beautiful country but that wouldn’t be my guideline for dental or healthcare. I wonder how these citizens feel when moneyed Americans use those services but because of low income levels, many in Ecuador go without..

Upon retirement, we discovered dental insurance to be too expensive for the coverages provided so we self funded our dental care. We put the proposed monthly premium away and that is our dental fund which has sufficed for any work and routine cleanings. I think we would move to dentures before we’d go to Ecuador but that’s us.

Are you also aware most high caliber dental schools in the USA will provide dental care at a greatly reduced price for the low income? (That would include implants..)

[manaboutown]

Over many pre-pandemic years several people of limited income I have known who reside in New Mexico for extensive and expensive dental procedures went to dental clinics in Juarez, Mexico, across the border from El Paso, Texas. The way it works is they stay in hotels in El Paso and vans from the clinics pick them up and drive them to and from the clinics. The dentists and oral surgeons speak English, are well trained, many in the US, and the clinics are clean and up to date. Extensive procedures are done cheaply and quickly, much more so than in the US, and the patients are sent on their way. Of course patients can return if problems develop as they only live 100 - 200 miles away at most. The Top 10 Clinics in Juarez | Book Now - Dental Departures (https://www.dentaldepartures.com/info/treatments/mexico/chihuahua/juarez)

Note how the article repeatedly stresses Juarez is now safe. lol

A couple weeks ago I was chatting with a long time Albuquerque friend who has a housekeeper who although born in the US was raised in Mexico as her parents are Mexicans. This lady grew up in Juarez so she knows it well and gets her dental care there. Her dentist along with other dentists have been forced to close their clinics due to cartel violence. They discreetly rent houses in which to practice in residential neighborhoods to avoid becoming cartel targets.

[MartinSE]

Over many pre-pandemic years several people of limited income I have known who reside in New Mexico for extensive and expensive dental procedures went to dental clinics in Juarez, Mexico, across the border from El Paso, Texas. The way it works is they stay in hotels in El Paso and vans from the clinics pick them up and drive them to and from the clinics. The dentists and oral surgeons speak English, are well trained, many in the US, and the clinics are clean and up to date. Extensive procedures are done cheaply and quickly, much more so than in the US, and the patients are sent on their way. Of course patients can return if problems develop as they only live 100 - 200 miles away at most. The Top 10 Clinics in Juarez | Book Now - Dental Departures (https://www.dentaldepartures.com/info/treatments/mexico/chihuahua/juarez)

Note how the article repeatedly stresses Juarez is now safe. lol

A couple weeks ago I was chatting with a long time Albuquerque friend who has a housekeeper who although born in the US was raised in Mexico as her parents are Mexicans. This lady grew up in Juarez so she knows it well and gets her dental care there. Her dentist along with other dentists have been forced to close their clinics due to cartel violence. They discreetly rent houses in which to practice in residential neighborhoods to avoid becoming cartel targets.

Yes, I find it sad that people living in the wealthiest country in the world often have to go to some of the poorest countries to get medical care.

Medical Vacations, as it is now called is a very fast growing industry, and many insurance companies will now pay for the trip and the treatment in a foreign country because it saves them money over paying for the same treatment here.

[manaboutown]

Yes, I find it sad that people living in the wealthiest country in the world often have to go to some of the poorest countries to get medical care.

Medical Vacations, as it is now called is a very fast growing industry, and many insurance companies will now pay for the trip and the treatment in a foreign country because it saves them money over paying for the same treatment here.

The cost of supplies and equipment is the same but the doctors and dentists in those countries not having to worry about carrying the enormous cost of US malpractice insurance is a major factor. Tort reform anyone???

On another note I had a gardener from Guadalajara, Mexico for over 20 years when I resided in Newport Beach, CA. He was a naturalized US citizen. Over those years he and I grew to know each other very well and and discussed many of our serious life decisions among other things. I regarded him as a very smart and wise man. One day he asked me about how much a crown would cost and what dentist would I recommend. I asked him why he did not get that done when he visited his family in Mexico. His response was he did not trust dentists in Mexico. They cheat on materials and so on. He would rather pay two or three times the Mexican cost in the US! He was adamant about that and had it done in the US.

[Aces4]

Yes, I find it sad that people living in the wealthiest country in the world often have to go to some of the poorest countries to get medical care.

Medical Vacations, as it is now called is a very fast growing industry, and many insurance companies will now pay for the trip and the treatment in a foreign country because it saves them money over paying for the same treatment here.


If they can afford a trip to a foreign country, they can afford dental care. They would rather spend their money on their luxuries or pleasures. The truly indigent can avail the Medicaid programs and often dentists adjust their rates and provide charity for those who real reasons for not being able to pay.

[MartinSE]

If they can afford a trip to a foreign country, they can afford dental care. They would rather spend their money on their luxuries or pleasures. The truly indigent can avail the Medicaid programs and often dentists adjust their rates and provide charity for those who real reasons for not being able to pay.

Okay, I understand now why Medical Vacations are a booming industry.

Thank you for clearing that up. I mean, silly me looking at saving $10K on a $25K medical procedure. I am so totally messed up.

And the Medicaid thing - uh, what about the other 100 million people that don't qualify for Medicaid - they make too much but can't afford the $25K medical procedure I just had, that insurance won't cover.

Oh, and to clarify for me, I could afford a couple $500 round-trip tickets to Ecuador (2019), so I should be able to afford a $25K medical procedure and not bother saving $10K in the process.

Would you please clarify that for me? I missed it when I made my decision - I thought I was saving 40% on the cost of the procedure while getting paid for vacation to an exotic foreign country. Is it unAmerican to save 40% on a $25K medical procedure?

I KNEW this thread would end up here. If it continues, I will just end the discussion. It is sad we can't even discuss this topic. I have had several members ask for information privately, it seems I am not the only one that likes to save money.

[manaboutown]

If they can afford a trip to a foreign country, they can afford dental care. They would rather spend their money on their luxuries or pleasures. The truly indigent can avail the Medicaid programs and often dentists adjust their rates and provide charity for those who real reasons for not being able to pay.

Bingo!

Plus there is no way I would go to a third world country for serious medical treatment.

[Aces4]

Okay, I understand now why Medical Vacations are a booming industry.

Thank you for clearing that up. I mean, silly me looking at saving $10K on a $25K medical procedure. I am so totally messed up.

And the Medicaid thing - uh, what about the other 100 million people that don't qualify for Medicaid - they make too much but can't afford the $25K medical procedure I just had, that insurance won't cover.

Oh, and to clarify for me, I could afford a couple $500 round-trip tickets to Ecuador (2019), so I should be able to afford a $25K medical procedure and not bother saving $10K in the process.

Would you please clarify that for me? I missed it when I made my decision - I thought I was saving 40% on the cost of the procedure while getting paid for vacation to an exotic foreign country. Is it unAmerican to save 40% on a $25K medical procedure?

I KNEW this thread would end up here. If it continues, I will just end the discussion. It is sad we can't even discuss this topic. I have had several members ask for information privately, it seems I am not the only one that likes to save money.

Un-American? You may have your usual agenda. I’m talking about safety in seeking medical/dental care outside of this country. Between the dental care/procedures and safety in third world countries, Americans are at risk choosing these services. May I ask what form of payment is accepted; personal check or charge card? It a matter of choices but sooner or later, everyone’s luck runs out.

It works for you now, go for it. Anyone considering cutting that corner should surely do their homework thoroughly before engaging in those services.

[Aces4]

I KNEW this thread would end up here. If it continues, I will just end the discussion. It is sad we can't even discuss this topic. I have had several members ask for information privately, it seems I am not the only one that likes to save money.

You directed this thread to a discussion of running out of the country for dental care when you began clucking about it is a shame people have to go outside the USA for treatment from a dentist. I pointed out that people make choices how to spend their money.

I suggest one should work for 6 months in a dental office and become familiar with equipment, employees, benefits, accountant, supplies, computer systems, phone lines, INSURANCE and so forth. Do dentists have a greater income than some other workers? They should have considering all the education, skill required and dealing with spit, halitosis, filthy teeth, lazy dental care not to mention time spent calming the terrified patients.

There are very dedicated, caring dental providers in the USA out there and I’ll stick with them.

[Nucky]

I wonder if Morgan & Morgan would come to the rescue if a person had a medical incident in Ecuador?

I did have a whole lot of truck drivers working for me that were from Ecuador. Their face lit up when they remembered the family that the left behind and told stories of how beautiful their country was. I had a friend named Hector who talked common sense into a person who could have had me jailed for the reason of their choice and he was from Ecuador. I asked Hector why he felt the need to come to my rescue. He said all the injustice he saw in his country sort of forced him to do the correct thing for me. I lost touch with him. He went back to help a brother of his who was jailed for killing another man in a drucken squabble over NOTHING. Sounds about right. Out of the gang of 8 to 10 drivers from Ecuador maybe there was a total of one dozen teeth between all of them. I like our set up better. Nobody is going to practice on me. Their Dentists didn't do them any favors. Your results may vary.

[MartinSE]

Un-American? You may have your usual agenda. I’m talking about safety in seeking medical/dental care outside of this country. Between the dental care/procedures and safety in third world countries, Americans are at risk choosing these services. May I ask what form of payment is accepted; personal check or charge card? It a matter of choices but sooner or later, everyone’s luck runs out.

It works for you now, go for it. Anyone considering cutting that corner should surely do their homework thoroughly before engaging in those services.

Funny, I guess I missed the mention of safety.

Would please share your data supporting the danger to people taking medical vacations having poorer outcomes or being injured or killed while in foreign countries, or is that just "your usual agenda"

[MartinSE]

I wonder if Morgan & Morgan would come to the rescue if a person had a medical incident in Ecuador?

I did have a whole lot of truck drivers working for me that were from Ecuador. Their face lit up when they remembered the family that the left behind and told stories of how beautiful their country was. I had a friend named Hector who talked common sense into a person who could have had me jailed for the reason of their choice and he was from Ecuador. I asked Hector why he felt the need to come to my rescue. He said all the injustice he saw in his country sort of forced him to do the correct thing for me. I lost touch with him. He went back to help a brother of his who was jailed for killing another man in a drucken squabble over NOTHING. Sounds about right. Out of the gang of 8 to 10 drivers from Ecuador maybe there was a total of one dozen teeth between all of them. I like our set up better. Nobody is going to practice on me. Their Dentists didn't do them any favors. Your results may vary.

When was this? I can't address it, I do know that almost everyone I have met here is the poorer part of Cuenca have all their teeth. Not mean that is a scientific example or anything. I do recall growing up and being around truck loaders at the farmers market in south Florida. I think there were a hundred or so working on the platform, and even at 8 or 10 I recall being fascinated by how few teeth they had. Doesn't speak well for how the poor are treated in our country either and certainly does not reflect on what dentistry was available to those that could afford to get to it and pay for it.

I have been out in the countryside in Ecuador, and the poor there make the poor in the city look wealthy. And I expect not too many of them could afford to walk a hundred miles into the city to get to a dentist. Sort of like migrant workers here can't afford to take time off to go to the dentist and, if they could, couldn't afford to pay for it.

I know a little about poor from personal experience; we were poor growing up, All my toys were ones my mother got from working at Burdines (a department store in Florida), and they were given to employees since they had been returned; most were broken. All my clothes were handed down to me. I bought my own bicycle by walking a newspaper route for a year to save money.

But I always considered us rich, because I worked from 6 to 12 loading trucks and train cars with vegetables. (My father was the agent for the railroad, so I had transportation to and from work and an "in" with the farmers that knew him. I saw what real poverty was while working alongside the poor loading those truck and train cars, and really believed I was a privileged rich kid.

And my grandfather was a retired carpenter in Winter Haven, Florida (around here), He bought some useless land outside of town and build one room houses with no glass in the windows and no indoor plumbing and let first come for server migrant workers live in them while they were in the area harvesting oranges - let as in for free, because they could afford nothing. They didn't have many teeth either.

My point is I expect the people you met were very poor in Ecuador and came to the US to escape the brutality and poverty in their own country.

I have NEVER said Ecuador was a rich country or a democratic country, but I have said the people that are much more friendly than the people here. I have said that the poor people in Cuenca are very happy despite their poverty. I have discussed how walking around the neighborhood, I was struck by how so many parents were out in the streets walking their children home from school - laughing and playing with their kids. I have talked about how in stores, the kids and their parents seem to always be happy and cheerful, unlike here, where it is common to see a parent screaming at the children while shopping,

Despite all our advantages, I question if we are really happier. I question if, for all our wealth, we are better off. I don't know. America has given me a lot of opportunities; for one, I am no longer POOR. I am not wealthy by any stretch, but I am not struggling to survive. It pains me to see posts from my granddaughter, a young mother of two, who works two jobs and sell her plasma occasionally to pay for unexpected expenses because she is too proud to ask for help.

And despite all America has done for me and how grateful I am, Ecuador is at the top of the shortlist for where my wife and I, will be migrating depending on how the 2024 elections go.

[MartinSE]

You directed this thread to a discussion of running out of the country for dental care when you began clucking about it is a shame people have to go outside the USA for treatment from a dentist. I pointed out that people make choices how to spend their money.

I suggest one should work for 6 months in a dental office and become familiar with equipment, employees, benefits, accountant, supplies, computer systems, phone lines, INSURANCE and so forth. Do dentists have a greater income than some other workers? They should have considering all the education, skill required and dealing with spit, halitosis, filthy teeth, lazy dental care not to mention time spent calming the terrified patients.

There are very dedicated, caring dental providers in the USA out there and I’ll stick with them.

Do you realize how loudly your usual agenda screams in every post you make on my threads?

NO ONE said anything about RUNNING OUT OF THE COUNTRY; the discussion was about where I am and why I am there. And saving $10K is a meaningful saving to some of us. I am happy that you can just brush off saving $10K as meanless savings. It is wonderful that you are rich.

And yes, it is a shame that people can't have the medical care they can't afford here; that is a FACT. No amount of your American Exceptionalism will change the fact.

I have never said anything bad about dentists here in America - ever. PERIOD that is a gross misrepresentation of everything I have ever said.

You are the one that came here into my thread where we were having a pleasant conversation and started making false claims about what and why I was posting.

If the fact of anyone wants to check it out (moderators?), they will find you have a habit of coming onto threads where you have not posted anything and making posts misrepresenting my posts.

I really do feel sorry for you. You have a serious problem.

[MartinSE]

Bingo!

Plus there is no way I would go to a third world country for serious medical treatment.

Good, I promise I will never vote for a law forcing you to go to Ecuador to get dental care.

[Aces4]

Funny, I guess I missed the mention of safety.

Would please share your data supporting the danger to people taking medical vacations having poorer outcomes or being injured or killed while in foreign countries, or is that just "your usual agenda"

Have you ever considered doing an online search yourself for that information.

I stated earlier, it’s your choice… do what you want. I did advise others to be cautious when considering dental work or medical treatment in a third world country to be very wary of possible complications, inferior work and personal safety. Wouldn’t you admit that is very wise advice if they are contemplating that possibility?

Also, you haven’t shared with us how payment for treatment to your dentist is made.

[MartinSE]

I am sorry to everyone who had a pleasant conversation before this gentleman came here to spread his venom.

I tried to close it because he has a history of doing this on my posts. However, for whatever reason, I could not find the close option where it is typically on threads. I will not tolerate these intrusions and have had several vacations from TOTV because I push back when this happens.

I will ask the moderators to close this thread, and I will not apologize for pushing back when attacked.

[Aces4]

Do you realize how loudly your usual agenda screams in every post you make on my threads?

NO ONE said anything about RUNNING OUT OF THE COUNTRY; the discussion was about where I am and why I am there. And saving $10K is a meaningful saving to some of us. I am happy that you can just brush off saving $10K as meanless savings. It is wonderful that you are rich.

And yes, it is a shame that people can't have the medical care they can't afford here; that is a FACT. No amount of your American Exceptionalism will change the fact.

I have never said anything bad about dentists here in America - ever. PERIOD that is a gross misrepresentation of everything I have ever said.

You are the one that came here into my thread where we were having a pleasant conversation and started making false claims about what and why I was posting.

If the fact of anyone wants to check it out (moderators?), they will find you have a habit of coming onto threads where you have not posted anything and making posts misrepresenting my posts.

I really do feel sorry for you. You have a serious problem.


Feel better now? So I assume a dialog about the position of seeking dental treatment in a third world, developing nation should not take place. BTW, were they able to use your bone for that graft? I made no false claims, stated facts and indicated it didn’t bother me where you sought treatment.

I simply provided the other side of the coin. Isn’t that better than being sued by someone who thinks they were provided with incorrect or partial information? We’re discussing serious health decisions.

[airstreamingypsy]

Martin,

I appreciated your post, as I do all your posts. For many years I was a fulltime RVer, I know that thousands of American RVers slip over the Mexican border for dental treatment. There are a few towns, that have American trained dentists that, like Ecuador, charge a fraction of what US dentists charge. The most famous border town to get dental work done in Mexico is Los Algodones. It’s a small town that borders Yuma, Arizona, and is by far the most popular border town for RVers. Because so many people go there for dental work, you might hear it called Molar City. There are over 350 dentists within a few blocks of downtown.

Los Algodones thrives on dental tourism, and the money tourists spend at shops, restaurants, and more. There are other border towns, you can find them where large percentages of RVers winter, like Yuma and the Rio Grande valley of Texas.

[Byte1]

Having lived in many countries for almost half my life, I find it interesting and amusing at times when I hear other Americans speak of how great third world countries are to them. I had a family member that agreed so much that he lived his whole retired life in a third world country, until he died of cancer. It's interesting that Americans working for our gov. overseas often find that they need "serious" medical attention and are sent home (USA) for major treatment or to another 1st world country for technical treatment/diagnosis. I've seen pregnant American females sent to London for simple ultrasound checkups on their pregnancy. On the other hand, I paid four dollars for an xray in one country. Some countries do have great medical personnel, but lack in other areas such as equipment and cleanliness. In one country, I knew an American Expat that had a fairly easy surgical procedure who died shortly after of sepsis infection. A lot of medical professionals from other countries are American educated, but that doesn't make their medical supplies or environment top quality.
Many Americans love visiting and even living in poor countries, because they can live like they are rich. Not as many countries are like that as they were early in my travels overseas, but there are still plenty of places where Americans can live the life of luxury. I have observed and heard of many, many horror stories related to overseas medicine. You may be flipping a coin, gambling when you jump into the murky water of foreign medicine. That said, if not for a persistent foreign doctor in one very dirty country we lived in, one of my family members might not have received an urgent medivac back to the U.S. for life saving surgery.
There are some very exotic and beautiful countries in this world, but for me there is only ONE U.S. of A. We have millions trying to migrate to this country, but very few want to leave and there is no one stopping them if they wish to do so.