Not happy with changes to the gate card system

[twoplanekid]

I asked this question of staff->

I heard a rumor from Bruce that the gate card system in the Villages is going to change. Be forewarned that I have been giving out and using the devices that are placed in car mirrors to activate the gates for over a year.

So, please tell me the reason for the change and why my cards will no longer work. Is there a way that these cards can still work?

I believe that the using the old cards and having to wave them out an open car window is archaic in this electronic age. So, if changes are made when will we receive a device that will automatically raise gates without human interaction?

A very large number of Villagers may be upset when they find out these (auto open) cards no longer work and then need to go back to the old, old way.
I am sorry that this change was not highlighted in a newsletter to let people know that this change was going to take place.

I hope you have some good news for me about this issue as it looks very bad at this point in time.​

and ->
One additional questions about data if collected. What data is collected , who has access to the data and data collected is used for what purpose.
I thought long ago that I was told no data was collected nor retained by the gate card system and not talking about the security cameras at the gates.

Thanks again,


they responded by saying ->


Thank you for reaching out regarding the gate access control system upgrade. This project was approved in September, with support from the Amenity Authority Committee, Project Wide Advisory Committee and the Village Center and Sumter Landing CDDs.

The District has been seeking a new software vendor for a number of years to replace the existing system. As growth continued year after year in concert with the volume of card reads at the gates, the incoming data began to overburden and, at times, exceed the capacity of the existing software database. As a result, there are instances of unauthorized cards successfully opening gates; when the new system is in place, only properly credentialed cards will open the gates.

The District identified Software House C-Cure as a viable alternative to replace the existing software. This software provides a robust and expandable access control system. The capacity of the database is capable of storing one (1) million gate cards and it is administered through one centralized database. An additional benefit to Software House C-Cure is that the software is compatible with nearly all existing peripheral equipment at the gate locations – motors, readers, arms, loops, network electronics etc. In addition, all gate cards issued by the District will continue to work. By implementing this solution, only the controller itself would be replaced.

The access control system at the gates continues to serve a vital role in the community with regard to traffic management, calming and monitoring. The benefits of proper management of the access control system will further enhance the overall management of gate card data, prevent card duplication and provide more robust reporting capabilities. This is a significant benefit to residents, Staff and local law enforcement agencies. Gate card transactions are utilized to understand the volume on certain roadways, identification of individuals in the event property is damaged, and law enforcement routinely asks for reporting at specific locations.

There are certain areas in the community, such as the RV lots, that have limited access and require specific credentials assigned to the gate card. Regardless of the type of access, the District does not condone the unauthorized duplication of cards. When cards are assigned, they are tied to a specific residence or contractor based on the credentials. As with any access control system, it is not expected that these would be duplicated since it would also unnecessarily burden the volume of cards in the system.

The AAC and PWAC both expressed interest in exploring options to improve the method in which the gates are activated, including the type of devices and/or methods for opening a gate arm. The first step in the project is to upgrade the back-end software. Once that is accomplished, Staff will be communicating the Committees/Boards on other opportunities to enhance the functionality of the gates.

I then replied ->

I totally disagree with this assessment and wish that a public discussion had taken place. I understand that access control systems at the gates serve to slow traffic and let golf carts cross. However many of your other comments I would question.

The few that need restricted access to RV lots could have been given special cards. What other areas and how many other Villagers are affected compared to the total Village population?

You never answered my question as to how much detailed data the system is keeping on people accessing public roads. We are not a gate restricted community.

If the volume of individual cards that a new system can handle is 1 million, then what’s the big deal about duplicates? Plus, the cards are cloned to one that is already in the system. I don’t under this concern about duplicates. What are the specific benefits to the public in this new change other than making many thousands of duplicate cards not function?
CLONED CARDS WILL NOT WORK???

I again ask what data is collected and who has access to this data. Is this data used by public or private firms? Can I access the data? A private or public firm is the only one assigning gate cards at this time? Please note that I am not discussing the gate cameras. I believe cameras which are now located at the gates help identify individuals for law enforcement and not gate cards as you suggest.

What is the total cost of the new system for both hardware and software going to be for residents? This change to the gate management system should have been presented and discussed at a large public meeting with details in the paper and on the district website beforehand.

I am on the NSCUDD board and have always advocated for preannounced large public discussions of changes we make that affect the public. NSCUDD has held many advertised large public meetings to discuss changes and I am proud we have done so because that is the way it should be done.

a link to details on the contracts found on districtgov.org

Coversheet (https://district.novusagenda.com/AgendaPublic/CoverSheet.aspx?ItemID=60740&MeetingID=2441)

[retiredguy123]

I appreciate your post to attempt to explain a new gate card system. But, to me, it read as mostly gobblygook. Can you condense it down to something people can understand?

[I'm Popeye!]

I'm sure those that have these "gate card" illegally (landscapers, etc..) will also be upset. :coolsmiley:

[Marathon Man]

The response seemed logical and reasonable to me.

As far as duplicates - What prevents a resident from giving a duplicate to friends in other communities? I can understand the districts stand on duplicates.

[EdFNJ]

Seems to clearly state:

An additional benefit to Software House C-Cure is that the software is compatible with nearly all existing peripheral equipment at the gate locations – motors, readers, arms, loops, network electronics etc. In addition, all gate cards issued by the District will continue to work. By implementing this solution, only the controller itself would be replaced.

Can't see how it will affect cloned cards since the ancient reader system will remain the same as all that is changing is the database software. At least for the immediate future it seems to be "much ado about nothing." I think most of us will be pushing up daisies before new READER HARDWARE is brought up for discussion, decided upon and installed throughout T.V. . Personally I'd be happy to see window stickers or devices "under the hood" as my father's 40+ year old system had in his 60 year old condo development. As for the information they are keeping, I'd be more concerned with the online tracks you leave when placing online orders or joining apps like many restaurants and businesses have as well as every credit card purchase you make. I believe my "mirror pass" will outlast me.

[twoplanekid]

I appreciate your post to attempt to explain a new gate card system. But, to me, it read as mostly gobblygook. Can you condense it down to something people can understand?


My most pressing conserns are will the cloned gate cards still work and how much is the total cost. Still not sure as I just received this reply for staff->
__________________________________________________ _________________________________

Good afternoon,

I appreciate your perspective, but this was publicly advertised on the website and on the agenda for consideration at a total of four (4) public meetings.

The roadways are public and individuals always have the option to either enter through a staffed gate, or open the gate utilizing the red button. The gate cards are issued in a pair to every home at closing, and homeowners can also purchase additional gate cards for a $15.00 charge from the District office. A total of four gate cards can be issued per home. The gate cards are assigned to the home and when used report the location, time stamp and card number.

As with any information maintained by a governmental entity, in the event a public records request is received we review the request and respond in accordance with the law. There are certain factors that prevent data from being released immediately, such as if the data has been obtained by law enforcement and tied to an active investigation.

Here is a link to the Project Wide Advisory Committee Meeting agenda, which was the first meeting that this was presented at: Coversheet (https://district.novusagenda.com/AgendaPublic/CoverSheet.aspx?ItemID=60740&MeetingID=2441)
Please note that the new gate maintenance contract cost, combined with the software upgrade, results in a $200,000 savings compared to what we were previously paying for gate maintenance alone. In year two, following the upgrade, we will realize even greater savings.

Duplication of any type of credentials for an access control system is not favorably looked upon. As I mentioned in the initial email, in order for the District to pursue advancements in how the gates are operated (such as bar codes, proximity readers etc.) , we have to upgrade the software to support it. These are upgrades that the AAC and PWAC have requested updates on once this initial phase is complete.
__________________________________________________ ________

It's good to hear that we will be saving $200,000 per year in the future but at what cost to us now. I just like to see the whole picture. So, I will ask again about the total cost and if current cloned cards will still work. While "not favorably looked on ", it isn't illegal and I believe it is a much better way to open our gates than the old cards. They are very vague about other upgrades to the system that might be implemented at some future date. I can understand this yet..

[Number 10 GI]

I don't understand the angst over duplicate cards. What difference does it make? The red button allows anyone to access any village with no need for a card! I think a bureaucrat somewhere is bored or trying to justify their existence. Sometimes I believe I'm actually living in the movie "Idiocracy".

[TSO/ISPF]

I use the little red button when driving the cart because we have 2 gate cards for our cars. What information is important to the powers that manage our roads and whatever other aspects the data collected might serve? The gates help control the flow of traffic for users of the Multi Modal Paths and that is important. Does it matter if you use a card reader or just push the button to open the gate? Either method forces you to stop before going through it. Just make sure every vehicle passing through the gates is recorded in the event of criminal activity.

[Altavia]

A couple of key sentences:

"The first step in the project is to upgrade the back-end software. Once that is accomplished, Staff will be communicating the Committees/Boards on other opportunities to enhance the functionality of the gates. "

"As I mentioned in the initial email, in order for the District to pursue advancements in how the gates are operated (such as bar codes, proximity readers etc.) , we have to upgrade the software to support it. These are upgrades that the AAC and PWAC have requested updates on once this initial phase is complete.

[Altavia]

I use the little red button when driving the cart because we have 2 gate cards for our cars. What information is important to the powers that manage our roads and whatever other aspects the data collected might serve? The gates help control the flow of traffic for users of the Multi Modal Paths and that is important. Does it matter if you use a card reader or just push the button to open the gate? Either method forces you to stop before going through it. Justin make sure every vehicle passing through the gates is recorded in the event of criminal activity.

If traffic control was the only objective, the entry gates could be configured to operate the same as exit gates. As they sometimes do during construction.

[coralway]

the software cannot handle data for perhaps 100 thousand swipes? Even if the number is twice that, seems kinda far fetched with the technology available today.

Someone needs to contact Florida based Cyber Ninjas. Those folks are apparently geniuses in counting and handling very large volume of data.

[DARFAP]

Just push the red button.

[LAFwUs]

I don't understand the angst over duplicate cards. What difference does it make? The red button allows anyone to access any village with no need for a card! I think a bureaucrat somewhere is bored or trying to justify their existence. Sometimes I believe I'm actually living in the movie "Idiocracy".

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest the "angst" over clone cards is all about the money. Isn't it always?
I couldn't guess as to how many clone cards are in circulation/use over the years, but each one would be taking away $$ or rubs against whom ever has the contract as the service provider.
None of this is about making life better for residence, because if it was, the realization that the entire antiquated system needs an overhaul/update to, oh maybe updated to circa year 2000'sh tech perhaps. (sarcasm)

There are countless fairly simple programs out there in use right now that utilize decal type scannable's, 1/3rd the size of a credit card and can be read from 100+ft away w/ vehicles in full motion and can handle millions of scannable's, take pictures/vid, record digi info, automatically open/close gates, etc. all without a single interaction of the driver.

Besides the entire system is rather ineffective as actual "access control" when anyone can hit the red button. Knowledge of, that is fairly widely known outside the villages....NO card needed.

[Ecuadog]

If traffic control was the only objective, the entry gates could be configured to operate the same as exit gates. As they sometimes do during construction.

Bingo.

[patfla06]

In Tampa many gated communities had a sticker on the side window with a bar code to enter your neighborhood.
The good part was you didn’t have to open your window.
Why couldn’t we have this instead of the card?

[djlnc]

In Tampa many gated communities had a sticker on the side window with a bar code to enter your neighborhood.
The good part was you didn’t have to open your window.
Why couldn’t we have this instead of the card?

That's what I was thinking - more like the turnpike transponders.
If storing a million cards is a big upgrade, the current system must be very primitive.

[fdpaq0580]

I use the little red button when driving the cart because we have 2 gate cards for our cars. What information is important to the powers that manage our roads and whatever other aspects the data collected might serve? The gates help control the flow of traffic for users of the Multi Modal Paths and that is important. Does it matter if you use a card reader or just push the button to open the gate? Either method forces you to stop before going through it. Just make sure every vehicle passing through the gates is recorded in the event of criminal activity.

Guess some folks are not aware that the red buttons open the gates or the person that tailgated me throughout the gate a couple nights ago just didn't want to roll down their window.

[P A Paul]

So are the car mirror strips that activate without using card considered “duplicate” cards? And they won’t work in the near future?

[tophcfa]

I don’t see what the issue is, I am in favor of no duplication of the gate cards issued to residents. Duplicates allow non villagers to enter through the MMP gate in the historic section. Duplicates allow non residents, who don’t pay for the MMP’s, to have easier access to gate passes they have no right to. The particular gate referred to has no red button and is only opened with a gate card, as it should be. We keep one of each of our gate cards hidden in our golf carts specially so we can pass through this gate. We never use a gate card in our car, no need, just hit the red button.

[blueash]

Originally Posted by Altavia View Post
If traffic control was the only objective, the entry gates could be configured to operate the same as exit gates. As they sometimes do during construction.

Bingo.

Not bingo unless you like bango. When exiting you can see any carts or pedestrians crossing the road with no obstructions. BUT, big BUT, when entering, the view of the crossing is blocked by the gate mechanism, plantings, and often a gate booth. So when you come in through the gates you cannot safely proceed coasting thru, and the crossing carts and walkers can not see you coming. So entry must be slowed/stopped much more intently than exiting.

[PersonOfInterest]

Gate card access and monitoring seems ridiculous for a non-gated community. Programming a slightly longer delay in opening the entry gates in 'automatic' mode would have just as significant an impact as waving a gate card. The exit gates which are in automatic mode actually impede traffic flow if you think about it. At the exit gates vehicles positioned to trigger the automatic gate are directly in the golf cart lane whereas vehicles at the entry gates wait outside the golf cart lane. Think of a constant flow of traffic both in and out of the gates simultaneously and you can envision stoppage of the golf cart lane at the exit gate. With a constant flow of traffic through an exit gate golf cart traffic is stopped until the constant flow of exit traffic is interrupted. Many, if not all, manned gates have no bearing on traffic flow other than merging two lanes of traffic to a single lane. There is no golf cart traffic at most of these gates. There are many gates that are in 'no golf carts allowed' areas. One would have to assume these exist to give the impression of a gated, restricted access community rather than to aid traffic flow.

[Captainpd]

The response seemed logical and reasonable to me.

As far as duplicates - What prevents a resident from giving a duplicate to friends in other communities? I can understand the districts stand on duplicates.

I could never understand the use of the gates. ABSOLUTELY ANY CAN COME INTO THE VILLAGES. If the sole purpose is to slow traffic, use the same system for leaving the Villages.

[HoosierPa]

I asked this question of staff->

I heard a rumor from Bruce that the gate card system in the Villages is going to change. Be forewarned that I have been giving out and using the devices that are placed in car mirrors to activate the gates for over a year.

So, please tell me the reason for the change and why my cards will no longer work. Is there a way that these cards can still work?

I believe that the using the old cards and having to wave them out an open car window is archaic in this electronic age. So, if changes are made when will we receive a device that will automatically raise gates without human interaction?

A very large number of Villagers may be upset when they find out these (auto open) cards no longer work and then need to go back to the old, old way.
I am sorry that this change was not highlighted in a newsletter to let people know that this change was going to take place.

I hope you have some good news for me about this issue as it looks very bad at this point in time.​

and ->
One additional questions about data if collected. What data is collected , who has access to the data and data collected is used for what purpose.
I thought long ago that I was told no data was collected nor retained by the gate card system and not talking about the security cameras at the gates.

Thanks again,


they responded by saying ->


Thank you for reaching out regarding the gate access control system upgrade. This project was approved in September, with support from the Amenity Authority Committee, Project Wide Advisory Committee and the Village Center and Sumter Landing CDDs.

The District has been seeking a new software vendor for a number of years to replace the existing system. As growth continued year after year in concert with the volume of card reads at the gates, the incoming data began to overburden and, at times, exceed the capacity of the existing software database. As a result, there are instances of unauthorized cards successfully opening gates; when the new system is in place, only properly credentialed cards will open the gates.

The District identified Software House C-Cure as a viable alternative to replace the existing software. This software provides a robust and expandable access control system. The capacity of the database is capable of storing one (1) million gate cards and it is administered through one centralized database. An additional benefit to Software House C-Cure is that the software is compatible with nearly all existing peripheral equipment at the gate locations – motors, readers, arms, loops, network electronics etc. In addition, all gate cards issued by the District will continue to work. By implementing this solution, only the controller itself would be replaced.

The access control system at the gates continues to serve a vital role in the community with regard to traffic management, calming and monitoring. The benefits of proper management of the access control system will further enhance the overall management of gate card data, prevent card duplication and provide more robust reporting capabilities. This is a significant benefit to residents, Staff and local law enforcement agencies. Gate card transactions are utilized to understand the volume on certain roadways, identification of individuals in the event property is damaged, and law enforcement routinely asks for reporting at specific locations.

There are certain areas in the community, such as the RV lots, that have limited access and require specific credentials assigned to the gate card. Regardless of the type of access, the District does not condone the unauthorized duplication of cards. When cards are assigned, they are tied to a specific residence or contractor based on the credentials. As with any access control system, it is not expected that these would be duplicated since it would also unnecessarily burden the volume of cards in the system.

The AAC and PWAC both expressed interest in exploring options to improve the method in which the gates are activated, including the type of devices and/or methods for opening a gate arm. The first step in the project is to upgrade the back-end software. Once that is accomplished, Staff will be communicating the Committees/Boards on other opportunities to enhance the functionality of the gates.

I then replied ->

I totally disagree with this assessment and wish that a public discussion had taken place. I understand that access control systems at the gates serve to slow traffic and let golf carts cross. However many of your other comments I would question.

The few that need restricted access to RV lots could have been given special cards. What other areas and how many other Villagers are affected compared to the total Village population?

You never answered my question as to how much detailed data the system is keeping on people accessing public roads. We are not a gate restricted community.

If the volume of individual cards that a new system can handle is 1 million, then what’s the big deal about duplicates? Plus, the cards are cloned to one that is already in the system. I don’t under this concern about duplicates. What are the specific benefits to the public in this new change other than making many thousands of duplicate cards not function?
CLONED CARDS WILL NOT WORK???

I again ask what data is collected and who has access to this data. Is this data used by public or private firms? Can I access the data? A private or public firm is the only one assigning gate cards at this time? Please note that I am not discussing the gate cameras. I believe cameras which are now located at the gates help identify individuals for law enforcement and not gate cards as you suggest.

What is the total cost of the new system for both hardware and software going to be for residents? This change to the gate management system should have been presented and discussed at a large public meeting with details in the paper and on the district website beforehand.

I am on the NSCUDD board and have always advocated for preannounced large public discussions of changes we make that affect the public. NSCUDD has held many advertised large public meetings to discuss changes and I am proud we have done so because that is the way it should be done.

a link to details on the contracts found on districtgov.org

Coversheet (https://district.novusagenda.com/AgendaPublic/CoverSheet.aspx?ItemID=60740&MeetingID=2441)

I’m good with whatever those assigned to make these decisions decide. Let them do their job. I’ll concentrate on retirement and living in peace and smell the roses.

[midiwiz]

I appreciate your post to attempt to explain a new gate card system. But, to me, it read as mostly gobblygook. Can you condense it down to something people can understand?


someone is screwing with his $$$$ plain and simple

[dewilson58]

]I could never understand the use of the gates. ABSOLUTELY ANY CAN COME INTO THE VILLAGES. If the sole purpose is to slow traffic, use the same system for leaving the Villages.[/SIZE]
The exit gates don't close between cars.

[Priebehouse]

I use the little red button when driving the cart because we have 2 gate cards for our cars. What information is important to the powers that manage our roads and whatever other aspects the data collected might serve? The gates help control the flow of traffic for users of the Multi Modal Paths and that is important. Does it matter if you use a card reader or just push the button to open the gate? Either method forces you to stop before going through it. Just make sure every vehicle passing through the gates is recorded in the event of criminal activity.

I guess residents have an aversion to rolling down their window and using their access card.:throwtomatoes: Really a strenuous task for sure. I have always been a proponent of using the cards. Perhaps they want to track how often actual residents use the gates. Perhaps they want to prevent "Mirror Clone" card users from approaching the gate terminals too closely or too fast just and potentially damage the equipment because they think it activated and crash through the arm (I have witnessed this three times). I think they should give some type of bonus for residents that use their valid cards for the amount of times they use it instead of pushing the button. Upgrading the technology is a good thing.

[rrtjp]

I could never understand the use of the gates. ABSOLUTELY ANY CAN COME INTO THE VILLAGES. If the sole purpose is to slow traffic, use the same system for leaving the Villages.
Exactly what I was thinking. What brain surgeon came up with the system that is in place now?

[golfing eagles]

I could never understand the use of the gates. ABSOLUTELY ANY CAN COME INTO THE VILLAGES. If the sole purpose is to slow traffic, use the same system for leaving the Villages.

Exactly what I was thinking. What brain surgeon came up with the system that is in place now?

It was never meant to be system to restrict entry to Village residents only, it is primarily a traffic control system. Security is achieved by the video surveillance, community watch drive throughs, and watchful neighbors. At many MMP crossings you cannot see entering traffic, but you can see if the gate is down.

PS: Brought to you by the same "brain surgeons" that developed the most successful retirement community in human history.

[Janie123]

We are a gated community which, I believe, reduces your insurance premiums… at least my agent asked and that’s what they told me

[Bilyclub]

Gate card access and monitoring seems ridiculous for a non-gated community. Programming a slightly longer delay in opening the entry gates in 'automatic' mode would have just as significant an impact as waving a gate card. The exit gates which are in automatic mode actually impede traffic flow if you think about it. At the exit gates vehicles positioned to trigger the automatic gate are directly in the golf cart lane whereas vehicles at the entry gates wait outside the golf cart lane. Think of a constant flow of traffic both in and out of the gates simultaneously and you can envision stoppage of the golf cart lane at the exit gate. With a constant flow of traffic through an exit gate golf cart traffic is stopped until the constant flow of exit traffic is interrupted. Many, if not all, manned gates have no bearing on traffic flow other than merging two lanes of traffic to a single lane. There is no golf cart traffic at most of these gates. There are many gates that are in 'no golf carts allowed' areas. One would have to assume these exist to give the impression of a gated, restricted access community rather than to aid traffic flow.


You must not get around TV much. I would say that many of the manned gates have either a MMP crossing at them or are on cart lane streets. Pretty sure it would be easier to name the manned gates that don't fit the description than the ones that do.

[golfing eagles]

We are a gated community which, I believe, reduces your insurance premiums… at least my agent asked and that’s what they told me

We are NOT a gated community; we are a community that happens to have gates for traffic control. The roads are owned by the county and therefore we cannot restrict access.

As far as insurance goes, check your itemized invoice. My homeowner's insurance charged $151.00 MORE for being in a "secured community". No idea how that makes any sense. Then again, they charged $4 more for being a single-story home. Another head scratcher.

[Altavia]

It was never meant to be system to restrict entry to Village residents only, it is primarily a traffic control system. Security is achieved by the video surveillance, community watch drive throughs, and watchful neighbors. At many MMP crossings you cannot see entering traffic, but you can see if the gate is down.

PS: Brought to you by the same "brain surgeons" that developed the most successful retirement community in human history.

For sure, I read this as good news.

Hopefully they are preparing the system with a more state of the art resident gate entry system.

[golfing eagles]

You must not get around TV much. I would say that many of the manned gates have either a MMP crossing at them or are on cart lane streets. Pretty sure it would be easier to name the manned gates that don't fit the description than the ones that do.

Absolutely. You can count them on one hand.

[Wilson02852]

It's great being retired. Can sit around all day and read enlightening posts by so many experts.

[NatureBoy]

When were the oldest gates that use the cards installed? That's how old the software could be. It could be running an a Pentium PC or a VAX minicomputer, and have severe limitations compared to modern computers. And have extremely high maintenance costs - companies don't like supporting very old systems; they want you to upgrade to the latest. Upgrading/replacing the back-end system every 10 or 20 years makes complete sense.

Next would be upgrading the card readers & cards. How many gates are there? Every single one of them would need to be replaced, and probably rewired & networked with wi-fi or modern network cabling. That doesn't sound cheap. Or, the whole system could be scrapped in favor of license plate readers - Oh, wait, FL doesn't require front plates, so that's out. Every resident would need to get the new dongle. That sounds like a nightmare.

And everything can't be replaced all at once, so there would need to be a time (months? years?) when both systems worked at the same time. That's not cheap or easy.

The gates control traffic flow. They tend to be at places where golf-cart traffic intersects car traffic. The gates let both types of traffic see each other. If there was nothing, I think we'd have a lot more golf-carts getting run over by contractors & residents.

Sounds to me like the people in charge publicized the decision making as required & OP missed the memo.

[Gunny2403]

I could care less!

[M2inOR]

The gates simply are there to slow everyone down.

Normally when they're functioning properly, the gate closes and opens for each car.

As others noted, they help the carts on the MMP when they are crossing the roadways.

Most people stop, even when the gate arms are missing because someone in their car or cart didn't wait properly.

When the gate arms are damaged and missing, some vehicles zoom thru without slowing down or stopping. In the last 2 weeks after the tropical storm recovery, I see a number of arms that have been damaged by inconsiderate drivers. They also ignore the temporary stop signs.

Cloned cards may be a problem. With other technologies, cloning is and should be difficult or impossible to do. Imagine if it was easy to clone your chip-enabled credit or ATM card. Bad enough that store and restaurant people can take a photo of your card and sell to others to use.

Bottom line, whatever system is used for safety at the gates, let's hope that improvements make it safer for everyone.

[raney3099]

Don’t see the big deal. It’s not gated anyway. Just have to press the button and anyone is in.🤷*♀️

[rrtjp]

It was never meant to be system to restrict entry to Village residents only, it is primarily a traffic control system. Security is achieved by the video surveillance, community watch drive throughs, and watchful neighbors. At many MMP crossings you cannot see entering traffic, but you can see if the gate is down.

PS: Brought to you by the same "brain surgeons" that developed the most successful retirement community in human history.

You know this because you have lived in every retirement community in human history, lol.
It is an archaic system. Maybe the brain surgeons subcontracted the gate system out to Curly, Larry and Mo?
Honestly I really don’t care what gate system is used here. I have nothing really to complain about living here in the most successful retirement community in history. Only one that does is probably the guy making money on cloning cards.

[JeanC]

Or……did you know the card works without even rolling your window down!!! Just pull up close enough and bam.

[golfing eagles]

You know this because you have lived in every retirement community in human history, lol.
It is an archaic system. Maybe the brain surgeons subcontracted the gate system out to Curly, Larry and Mo?
Honestly I really don’t care what gate system is used here. I have nothing really to complain about living here in the most successful retirement community in history. Only one that does is probably the guy making money on cloning cards.

Thank you for your insight----any other pearls of wisdom?????

[RICH1]

Don’t ask questions, you might get an answer you don’t want to hear!

[mkjelenbaas]

I asked this question of staff->

I heard a rumor from Bruce that the gate card system in the Villages is going to change. Be forewarned that I have been giving out and using the devices that are placed in car mirrors to activate the gates for over a year.

So, please tell me the reason for the change and why my cards will no longer work. Is there a way that these cards can still work?

I believe that the using the old cards and having to wave them out an open car window is archaic in this electronic age. So, if changes are made when will we receive a device that will automatically raise gates without human interaction?

A very large number of Villagers may be upset when they find out these (auto open) cards no longer work and then need to go back to the old, old way.
I am sorry that this change was not highlighted in a newsletter to let people know that this change was going to take place.

I hope you have some good news for me about this issue as it looks very bad at this point in time.​

and ->
One additional questions about data if collected. What data is collected , who has access to the data and data collected is used for what purpose.
I thought long ago that I was told no data was collected nor retained by the gate card system and not talking about the security cameras at the gates.

Thanks again,


they responded by saying ->


Thank you for reaching out regarding the gate access control system upgrade. This project was approved in September, with support from the Amenity Authority Committee, Project Wide Advisory Committee and the Village Center and Sumter Landing CDDs.

The District has been seeking a new software vendor for a number of years to replace the existing system. As growth continued year after year in concert with the volume of card reads at the gates, the incoming data began to overburden and, at times, exceed the capacity of the existing software database. As a result, there are instances of unauthorized cards successfully opening gates; when the new system is in place, only properly credentialed cards will open the gates.

The District identified Software House C-Cure as a viable alternative to replace the existing software. This software provides a robust and expandable access control system. The capacity of the database is capable of storing one (1) million gate cards and it is administered through one centralized database. An additional benefit to Software House C-Cure is that the software is compatible with nearly all existing peripheral equipment at the gate locations – motors, readers, arms, loops, network electronics etc. In addition, all gate cards issued by the District will continue to work. By implementing this solution, only the controller itself would be replaced.

The access control system at the gates continues to serve a vital role in the community with regard to traffic management, calming and monitoring. The benefits of proper management of the access control system will further enhance the overall management of gate card data, prevent card duplication and provide more robust reporting capabilities. This is a significant benefit to residents, Staff and local law enforcement agencies. Gate card transactions are utilized to understand the volume on certain roadways, identification of individuals in the event property is damaged, and law enforcement routinely asks for reporting at specific locations.

There are certain areas in the community, such as the RV lots, that have limited access and require specific credentials assigned to the gate card. Regardless of the type of access, the District does not condone the unauthorized duplication of cards. When cards are assigned, they are tied to a specific residence or contractor based on the credentials. As with any access control system, it is not expected that these would be duplicated since it would also unnecessarily burden the volume of cards in the system.

The AAC and PWAC both expressed interest in exploring options to improve the method in which the gates are activated, including the type of devices and/or methods for opening a gate arm. The first step in the project is to upgrade the back-end software. Once that is accomplished, Staff will be communicating the Committees/Boards on other opportunities to enhance the functionality of the gates.

I then replied ->

I totally disagree with this assessment and wish that a public discussion had taken place. I understand that access control systems at the gates serve to slow traffic and let golf carts cross. However many of your other comments I would question.

The few that need restricted access to RV lots could have been given special cards. What other areas and how many other Villagers are affected compared to the total Village population?

You never answered my question as to how much detailed data the system is keeping on people accessing public roads. We are not a gate restricted community.

If the volume of individual cards that a new system can handle is 1 million, then what’s the big deal about duplicates? Plus, the cards are cloned to one that is already in the system. I don’t under this concern about duplicates. What are the specific benefits to the public in this new change other than making many thousands of duplicate cards not function?
CLONED CARDS WILL NOT WORK???

I again ask what data is collected and who has access to this data. Is this data used by public or private firms? Can I access the data? A private or public firm is the only one assigning gate cards at this time? Please note that I am not discussing the gate cameras. I believe cameras which are now located at the gates help identify individuals for law enforcement and not gate cards as you suggest.

What is the total cost of the new system for both hardware and software going to be for residents? This change to the gate management system should have been presented and discussed at a large public meeting with details in the paper and on the district website beforehand.

I am on the NSCUDD board and have always advocated for preannounced large public discussions of changes we make that affect the public. NSCUDD has held many advertised large public meetings to discuss changes and I am proud we have done so because that is the way it should be done.

a link to details on the contracts found on districtgov.org

Coversheet (https://district.novusagenda.com/AgendaPublic/CoverSheet.aspx?ItemID=60740&MeetingID=2441)
Boy - that is a lot of typing!! And I am wondering why you have such an interest - maybe $$$ are involved??

[PJackpot]

How can anyone be concerned about an upgrade to the gate system? You expect them to keep old technology simply because it still works? It's outdated and its functionality is limited. Software has to constantly be upgraded for numerous reasons. Besides, this upgrade sounds like it's going to save a ton of money on maintenance. As far as data goes, I can't imagine there is any real personal information on the access card, other than residential information that is publicly available anyway. My guess is the same people who would be concerned about an upgrade to the gate system are the same people who can't wait to get their hands on the latest iphone. I'm fine with the decision that's been made. By the way, I have one of the readers installed on my car, and I still don't have an issue with upgrading the system. The installed reader is not that great anyway. I find you have to be right on top of the receiver to get it to work. It's handy in the rain, I'll give it that, but I find I still use my card a lot of the time; and if it doesn't work after the upgrade, I'm out $20...big deal.

[PersonOfInterest]

You must not get around TV much. I would say that many of the manned gates have either a MMP crossing at them or are on cart lane streets. Pretty sure it would be easier to name the manned gates that don't fit the description than the ones that do.

In the southern hemisphere the 2 manned gates I know of are Fenney and Marsh Bend. Neither have golf cart crossings. The gate at Morse and 466 also Morse and 441 has cart path in front of the gate if I'm not mistaken. Pardon my use of 'Most' which was an overstatement.

[bowlingal]

FYI.....the cards work right through the closed window. No need to have it installed on your mirror. Try it!!

[Tvflguy]

Personally I am perfectly AOK with the current system. When we were considering TV 10+ years ago we pressed the red button to get in. Now for 8 years as residents the card works. Sometime not thru our car window. Big deal.

Some folks love to B&M about anything or paste 1,000 words postings. I have better things to do and skip verbose stuff here.

Bottom line IMO it works just fine. Can it be upgraded? Maybe. At what cost and benefit.

So my bottom line leave it as is.

[CosmicTrucker]

FYI.....the cards work right through the closed window. No need to have it installed on your mirror. Try it!!

This works for me as well. I keep the card in my wallet and simply hold my wallet up to my closed window and it opens the gate every time.

[SusanStCatherine]

FYI.....the cards work right through the closed window. No need to have it installed on your mirror. Try it!!

I've tried holding my gate card up to and against the closed car window about five separate times and it hasn't worked once.

[SusanStCatherine]

So duplication is not favorably looked upon? That implies it can still be done and is not illegal. I don't think they can prevent it.

[Steve]

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest the "angst" over clone cards is all about the money. Isn't it always?
I couldn't guess as to how many clone cards are in circulation/use over the years, but each one would be taking away $$ or rubs against whom ever has the contract as the service provider.
None of this is about making life better for residence, because if it was, the realization that the entire antiquated system needs an overhaul/update to, oh maybe updated to circa year 2000'sh tech perhaps. (sarcasm)

There are countless fairly simple programs out there in use right now that utilize decal type scannable's, 1/3rd the size of a credit card and can be read from 100+ft away w/ vehicles in full motion and can handle millions of scannable's, take pictures/vid, record digi info, automatically open/close gates, etc. all without a single interaction of the driver.

Besides the entire system is rather ineffective as actual "access control" when anyone can hit the red button. Knowledge of, that is fairly widely known outside the villages....NO card needed.

I think you may have hit the nail on the head. That 15 bucks per extra card hits The Villages where they live--the wallet. If they really want to streamline the system do what an earlier post suggested--make the entry gates automatic just like the exit gates. No cards--period.

[NotGolfer]

We very rarely roll the window down to open gates. We can "flash" the card through the window just fine and the gates go up. I think The Villages has every right to not honor the alternative. We came without anyone twisting our arm and accept the "rules". I think the one the OP has made is his "side business: and is without permission....so he's upset when they tell him it's not allowed. What happens if someone makes a side business out of our resident I.D.??

[airstreamingypsy]

I don't understand the angst over duplicate cards. What difference does it make? The red button allows anyone to access any village with no need for a card! I think a bureaucrat somewhere is bored or trying to justify their existence. Sometimes I believe I'm actually living in the movie "Idiocracy".

Bingo. The gates are there to try to keep the crossing safe, not to keep anyone out. What difference would it make if everyone who works in TV had one? None.

[Steve]

FYI.....the cards work right through the closed window. No need to have it installed on your mirror. Try it!!

IF you get close enough. And IF the reader is programmed correctly. The one at Buena Vista and Southern Trace has been out of whack for weeks and won't read the card unless it's within a few inches.

[golfing eagles]

I've tried holding my gate card up to and against the closed car window about five separate times and it hasn't worked once.

It's all in the wrist action:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Steve]

Personally I am perfectly AOK with the current system. When we were considering TV 10+ years ago we pressed the red button to get in. Now for 8 years as residents the card works. Sometime not thru our car window. Big deal.

Some folks love to B&M about anything or paste 1,000 words postings. I have better things to do and skip verbose stuff here.

Bottom line IMO it works just fine. Can it be upgraded? Maybe. At what cost and benefit.

So my bottom line leave it as is.
I think the question is "What's the point of it all?" If it's just traffic control make the entrance gates like the exit gates--automatic.

[DonnaNi4os]

There is that little red button that easily opens the gates. The fact that there is concern about the cards seems a bit silly to me. I have a chip in my mirror and won’t be thrilled if it stops working. Seems to me that a sticker with an individual bar code on the side window would be a good way to open the gate without need to open the window. Just my humble opinion. As far as storing our information, I have nothing to hide. What’s the big deal?

[DonnaNi4os]

In Tampa many gated communities had a sticker on the side window with a bar code to enter your neighborhood.
The good part was you didn’t have to open your window.
Why couldn’t we have this instead of the card?

Agreed!

[golfing eagles]

We very rarely roll the window down to open gates. We can "flash" the card through the window just fine and the gates go up. I think The Villages has every right to not honor the alternative. We came without anyone twisting our arm and accept the "rules". I think the one the OP has made is his "side business: and is without permission....so he's upset when they tell him it's not allowed. What happens if someone makes a side business out of our resident I.D.??

Well, I can pretty much assure you that the "OP" would rather fly planes than install mirror gate cards. He also serves our community on the utility board. So I would be careful about making accusations about his intentions.

[Heytubes]

What about the RV storage lit? A different code for entry with my card.

[Steve]

There is that little red button that easily opens the gates. The fact that there is concern about the cards seems a bit silly to me. I have a chip in my mirror and won’t be thrilled if it stops working. Seems to me that a sticker with an individual bar code on the side window would be a good way to open the gate without need to open the window. Just my humble opinion. As far as storing our information, I have nothing to hide. What’s the big deal?

About the sticker: What happens when you get a new vehicle? Wanna bet there's a charge for new stickers? With the card you get rid of the car but keep the card. And, as stated earlier, why even have a card? Automatic gates in just like automatic gates out solves the "problem".

[BOB396]

If it is for traffic control, wouldn't speed bumps work just as well as gates?

[airstreamingypsy]

The response seemed logical and reasonable to me.

As far as duplicates - What prevents a resident from giving a duplicate to friends in other communities? I can understand the districts stand on duplicates.

Why would that matter? Their friends in other communities can push the red button and get in, their friends in other communities pay taxes to maintain the roads. Since they do maintain the roads they should be given gate cards.

[wisbad1]

I'm sure those that have these "gate card" illegally (landscapers, etc..) will also be upset. :coolsmiley:
Now they have to push a button. Big deal!

[Bill14564]

I think the question is "What's the point of it all?" If it's just traffic control make the entrance gates like the exit gates--automatic.

See post #25

[Bill14564]

If it is for traffic control, wouldn't speed bumps work just as well as gates?

No. Speed bumps do not create gaps in traffic that allow carts, bikes, and pedestrians to safely cross.

[golfing eagles]

If it is for traffic control, wouldn't speed bumps work just as well as gates?

NO! There are already drivers who don't see the gates and knock them down-----how much harder is it for those drivers to see a speed bump?

[Sealvi]

Original or duplicate, cards don’t matter. Someone just needs to push the big red button. Or do what I have noticed a lot of “residents” doing lately at the manned gates. Drive up to the guest lane, the “guard” hits he/his magic button and the gate opens. The “guard” doesn’t even get out of their chair. The car in that lane cuts around the cars waiting to use their cards.

This system should have a scanner that reads a tag on the bumper or window of your vehicle. Putting a card to a scanner is, as someone said, archaic.

[Sandy and Ed]

….as a volunteer in an over 55 “gated for traffic control only” community in Langhorne PA, I controlled, ordered and issued the same cards we use here now for a similar system. There was a finite quantity of sequentially numbered cards that can be controlled in that system. After I left my role the HOA management purchased another (RFID reader) system that allowed access thru a decal stuck on the windshield. Easy peasy and much more flexible to different needs of access. Approved vendors had their own access to specific gates, etc. Good system and if the powers to be want a reference I could probably put them in contact with the HOA for a review

I have no dog in this argument but for the sake of clarity: I have one of those side mirror openers (nothing more than the metal strip from inside an old delaminated white card.(??)). I love it and glad I bought it. I’ll be out $40 but will have the same convenience. So from my perspective…..no harm no foul. Looking forward to the change

[Ecuadog]

If traffic control was the only objective, the entry gates could be configured to operate the same as exit gates. As they sometimes do during construction.

Bingo.

Not bingo unless you like bango. When exiting you can see any carts or pedestrians crossing the road with no obstructions. BUT, big BUT, when entering, the view of the crossing is blocked by the gate mechanism, plantings, and often a gate booth. So when you come in through the gates you cannot safely proceed coasting thru, and the crossing carts and walkers can not see you coming. So entry must be slowed/stopped much more intently than exiting.

Then take all that stuff out and install some big-honkin' speed bumps.

[billethkid]

System is fine as is for what it does/doesn't do.
Non residents don't need anything but push a button.

Everybody that wants new/better/no roll down windows......are you prepared to pay your share to get all the new "stuff"?

Capacity increase if and where needed should pay for itself (increased resident revenues).

This whole discussion comes across as a pre-sell trial balloon.

Some bureaucrats pet play is the most likely answer.$$$$$$$

___________________________________________

:censored:

[jjombrello]

A little over the top in my opinion. I thought the response was complete and simple to understand. Upgrade the software, maintain use of current cards, explore improved ways to operate gates in the future. Pretty logic approach and hardly worth getting one's shorts in a knot over.

[Bill14564]

Public notice of the new system:
Everyone with an interest in something like this should subscribe to the notifications for upcoming meetings, at least for their CDD, either AAC or PWAC, and their utility (usually NSCUDD). Then when you receive the notification with a link to the Agenda, read it. That is how I learned which meeting to attend to hear this new system being discussed.

Cloned cards:
I don't have any sympathy for those that have tried to get around the system that exists. The new system will work within the parameters set for the old system. If you decided to work outside those parameters, good luck.

Cloned cards (2):
I also don't understand the concern that the cloned cards won't work. The readers are not being replaced, only the software behind them. The readers can only read what the cards provide. If the cloning system accurately read the original then the clone should provide the same information to the reader. We'll have to wait and see but it doesn't seem like this should be a problem.

Data collection:
If I was worried about my card being recorded then I could simply press the red button. I certainly wouldn't rely on a cloned card to prevent data collection. The only reason I can think of why someone who creates cloned cards should be concerned is if he is using a "master" copy of a card rather than cloning each customer's individual card. If the system starts noticing one card activating hundreds of gates each day with multiple gates being opened at exactly the same time then the system should rightly flag that as a problem.

New readers:
A barcode reader or license plate reader or facial recognition or pick your favorite would all require new readers at the gates, a new software package on the back end, and possibly new wiring. I read that the there are over 120 gate facilities, but that number might be low, I thought the new number was around 175 but I can't find that page again. With over 120 facilities that's over 240 new readers that would need to be purchased plus the labor to replace them plus the downtime while everything is switched over plus the expense for the new cards/codes/plates/whatever plus the inconvenience of bringing over 70,000 people in to get their new cards! No thank you, I would rather roll my window down.


Chances are that the new system will be up and running before anyone notices.

[I'm Popeye!]

I could never understand the use of the gates. ABSOLUTELY ANY CAN COME INTO THE VILLAGES. If the sole purpose is to slow traffic, use the same system for leaving the Villages.
Wrong! . . . . READ POST #19, . . . . Not ALL GATES entering the Village property have that little red button. :read:

[Bill14564]

Wrong! . . . . READ POST #19, . . . . Not ALL GATES entering the Village property have that little red button. :read:

OK, all but ONE gate in the Villages has that little red button. (and there is a good reason the one is lacking it)

[Altavia]

The single lane entry gates can be interesting at times when someone does not know about the red button, or can't reach it, or can't back up to reach the button.

Traffic backs up until somebody notices and helps.

[fcgiii]

[QUOTE=TSO/ISPF;2145845]I use the little red button when driving the cart because we have 2 gate cards for our cars. /QUOTE]

Why are you driving your cart on the street when the cart path does not need a card not gave a button?

[sowtime444]

The Villages could use HID U90 readers at all gates, and give everyone a UHF card. UHF cards have a read range of 5 meters and are powered by the reader so the cards don't need batteries (like the old school windshield cards did). The U90 reader came out in 2014 so some gates might already have it, but they are probably handing out 125kHz technology cards to everyone because not all gates have the U90. As long as they keep using 125kHz PROX technology, your card cloning business is safe.

Someday they could spend the money to put your credential digitally on your phone and have that work over Bluetooth at a long distance away (they could tune this to optimize activation distance).

[billethkid]

The Villages could use HID U90 readers at all gates, and give everyone a UHF card. UHF cards have a read range of 5 meters and are powered by the reader so the cards don't need batteries (like the old school windshield cards did). The U90 reader came out in 2014 so some gates might already have it, but they are probably handing out 125kHz technology cards to everyone because not all gates have the U90. As long as they keep using 125kHz PROX technology, your card cloning business is safe.

Someday they could spend the money to put your credential digitally on your phone and have that work over Bluetooth at a long distance away (they could tune this to optimize activation distance).

$$$$$$$$$$$$$!
Current system works!

________________________________________

:censored:

[Miekies]

So your mad that you bought an aftermarket card that's not authorized by the Villages and it will be rendered ineffective and you now will have to push a button to roll down your window and again push a button to roll up. It must be hard to deal with this massive inconvenience. Not sure why you think you are entitled to something when technically you bought an illegal device that was not village issued but after market.

It's like purchasing a broken into firestick and firestick fixes the code to prevent it from being used that way and you go after firestick for changing the product you bought hacked because you liked it though that's not the intended purpose .

[Sgt Ed]

The response seemed logical and reasonable to me.

As far as duplicates - What prevents a resident from giving a duplicate to friends in other communities? I can understand the districts stand on duplicates.
I can tell you one thing; they need to change the way the gate arms are actuated. Having to lower and raise the window is ludicrous. All that does is wear out the window regulators and to replace is expensive, no matter what brand of vehicle you drive. Then again nothing like getting all wet in the rain. If the reason is to slow down traffic for safety, then put up a system like is already in place for exiting.

[Bertram00]

someone is screwing with his $$$$ plain and simple

Give this man a cheroot - he hit it right on the nose.

[PJackpot]

Personally I am perfectly AOK with the current system. When we were considering TV 10+ years ago we pressed the red button to get in. Now for 8 years as residents the card works. Sometime not thru our car window. Big deal.

Some folks love to B&M about anything or paste 1,000 words postings. I have better things to do and skip verbose stuff here.

Bottom line IMO it works just fine. Can it be upgraded? Maybe. At what cost and benefit.

So my bottom line leave it as is.

One of the reasons for upgrading would be lack of support for older software. Try getting support on windows 2000 and see where it gets you.

[PJackpot]

A little over the top in my opinion. I thought the response was complete and simple to understand. Upgrade the software, maintain use of current cards, explore improved ways to operate gates in the future. Pretty logic approach and hardly worth getting one's shorts in a knot over.

Agreed.

[juddfl]

I agree about the sticker on the side window. A friend in a club that I belong to here in TV has had to get her drivers side window repaired twice. The first place she lived used a card for access and it burned out from opening and closing the window. Then she moved to The Villages and it happened again. Her work has her going from home to home in the villages so she is constantly opening and closing her drivers window to enter a village. She was told by 2 different mechanics that it just burns out from opening and closing the window multiple times each day. This is expensive to repair. The little red button still won't solve her problem as she would still have to open her window.

[twoplanekid]

I don’t sell cloned gate cards. Having used a cloned gate card and then firmly believing it’s a better system than using the old card, I gave cards out for free to friends and fellow Villages so that they could also enjoy using them. Those that have never used one should be careful to challenge those that have done so. Before giving the cards out for free, I specifically asked District staff if it was against the law to do so. It’s not against the law to clone these cards!

I read the NSCUDD agenda and sometimes the District 10 agenda. But, I hardly ever read the agenda for the other 16 CDDs and don’t believe how it was worded in the agenda that I would perceive this change was going to prevent the better cloned cards to not work.

Now, I have to go from a better gate card system to one that in my opinion is poor after having used both. I have asked District staff to let both sellers and Villagers know that the cloned cards will stop working sometime in the future.

[golfing eagles]

Give this man a cheroot - he hit it right on the nose.

Actually, he missed it by a mile. If you knew the OP you would be retracting that post and apologizing:ohdear::ohdear::ohdear:

[chicksinger]

I don't understand the angst over duplicate cards. What difference does it make? The red button allows anyone to access any village with no need for a card! I think a bureaucrat somewhere is bored or trying to justify their existence. Sometimes I believe I'm actually living in the movie "Idiocracy".

I agree!

[chicksinger]

In this day and age, it would make much more sense, since we are NOT a gated community and ANYONE with a finger that can push a button can get in....why not eliminate the costly plastic waste and clones and just give the residents a window sticker. It's 2022 and TV is acting like it's the turn of the century. That's how you can cut costs and knock off all the unnecessary rhetoric about creating new ones! If it's good enough for the military bases to have stickers on the cars, it's good enough here.

[TrapX]

I managed prox card access systems and they use old technology. It's a very simple system. The reader sends out a signal continuously, your card (or cloned card) gets powered up by that signal and transmits a very long number to reply. The reader checks that number to see if it is in the list of known good numbers, and open the gate if it is.
A cloned card reply is the exact same number as the original card it copied. If it was your card, the clone transmits your card number. It is not possible for the reader to tell the difference. If TV is not replacing cards, then every clone will continue to work.
Cloned cards (for a resident) has zero impact on the system. If they need the gate arm to open, it is still just one transaction to the system.
Cloned cards to non-residents is also not any additional impact to the system. One transaction - either the clone, or the button. Pay attention to what is being sold to us. Ask yourself why would those we trust be saying misleading things?

There are encrypted cards available. Much harder to clone. Also cost a lot more. I bought cards for about $0.10 in bulk, same ones as TV uses. Encrypted cards were about $5 last time I looked, and the readers were more expensive too. It would be over a million dollars more to change to encrypted cards. And the red buttons are still there because they are county owned roads.

Every swipe is logged - date, time, card number. Nothing prevents saving that data forever. Disk drives are cheap.

Wondering what the replacement controllers will cost us. Plus the labor to install. Annual costs too. The ongoing labor to maintain all those new cards and delete old cards from service. The ongoing cost for the computers and making backups. The ongoing cost for dedicated ethernet lines to every gate.
It will add up. My guess is $350k now, and over $1million yearly. I'm thinking this is money that isn't needing to be spent.

Make the entry gates work like the exit gates. That solution saves money now and in the future. Still slows traffic. Still looks like we are a gated place (for whatever that does).

[JMintzer]

Or……did you know the card works without even rolling your window down!!! Just pull up close enough and bam.

Did you know that doing that doesn't always work? Neither of our cards will cause the gat to open when held up to the window, regardless of how close we get to the card reader...

[JMintzer]

FYI.....the cards work right through the closed window. No need to have it installed on your mirror. Try it!!

I did... It doesn't...

[JMintzer]

If it is for traffic control, wouldn't speed bumps work just as well as gates?

Nope... Speed bumps require that that you only slow down a bit, not stop...

[I'm Popeye!]

OK, all but ONE gate in the Villages has that little red button. (and there is a good reason the one is lacking it)

I'm one of those that KNOW why that NO BUTTON gate is needed. Others come on here not knowing such a thing exist, but willing to comment on something they have no clue at...

[Garywt]

I guess I don’t understand why so many people don’t have the ability to open their window.

[EdFNJ]

I guess I don’t understand why so many people don’t have the ability to open their window. The same reason people drive BMW & Mercedes .... because they can and they like the conveniences or the luxury. Nothing to do with "ability" but just because it's easy and convenient to avoid it.

[pablo cruze]

I was thinking of getting the clones for my cars, but will research first. It would be better if the RFID could be powered like a garage door opener, so I could push a button in my car/cart/bike (app on a phone??) while approaching the reader. Then I could proceed faster through the restriction.

Short of this, I'll need to accept that these bottlenecks are doing their job to restrict the bad drivers from being their baddest.

[EdFNJ]

I fully understand the need for the gates to slow traffic etc but why are card readers and cards even needed? Just have the gates open and close just as the exit gates do or as they do now when a car approaches. It will serve the exact same purpose and any specific raise/lower time delay can be set in it to slow down traffic when a car approaches.

[Ecuadog]

I guess I don’t understand why so many people don’t have the ability to open their window.

Because they're broken from having to open and close them so often.

[asianthree]

[QUOTE=TSO/ISPF;2145845]I use the little red button when driving the cart because we have 2 gate cards for our cars. /QUOTE]

Why are you driving your cart on the street when the cart path does not need a card not gave a button?

Either you Don’t live here or have never traveled outside of your neighborhood
You do realize many many miles of cart lanes use streets, therefore one must press the red button to raise the gate.

[coffeebean]

I don’t see what the issue is, I am in favor of no duplication of the gate cards issued to residents. Duplicates allow non villagers to enter through the MMP gate in the historic section. Duplicates allow non residents, who don’t pay for the MMP’s, to have easier access to gate passes they have no right to. The particular gate referred to has no red button and is only opened with a gate card, as it should be. We keep one of each of our gate cards hidden in our golf carts specially so we can pass through this gate. We never use a gate card in our car, no need, just hit the red button.

I prefer not to use the red button because I don't open my car window to open the gate. I just hold the card close to the closed window and the gate opens.

[Sandy and Ed]

I managed prox card access systems and they use old technology. It's a very simple system. The reader sends out a signal continuously, your card (or cloned card) gets powered up by that signal and transmits a very long number to reply. The reader checks that number to see if it is in the list of known good numbers, and open the gate if it is.
A cloned card reply is the exact same number as the original card it copied. If it was your card, the clone transmits your card number. It is not possible for the reader to tell the difference. If TV is not replacing cards, then every clone will continue to work.
Cloned cards (for a resident) has zero impact on the system. If they need the gate arm to open, it is still just one transaction to the system.
Cloned cards to non-residents is also not any additional impact to the system. One transaction - either the clone, or the button. Pay attention to what is being sold to us. Ask yourself why would those we trust be saying misleading things?

There are encrypted cards available. Much harder to clone. Also cost a lot more. I bought cards for about $0.10 in bulk, same ones as TV uses. Encrypted cards were about $5 last time I looked, and the readers were more expensive too. It would be over a million dollars more to change to encrypted cards. And the red buttons are still there because they are county owned roads.

Every swipe is logged - date, time, card number. Nothing prevents saving that data forever. Disk drives are cheap.

Wondering what the replacement controllers will cost us. Plus the labor to install. Annual costs too. The ongoing labor to maintain all those new cards and delete old cards from service. The ongoing cost for the computers and making backups. The ongoing cost for dedicated ethernet lines to every gate.
It will add up. My guess is $350k now, and over $1million yearly. I'm thinking this is money that isn't needing to be spent.

Make the entry gates work like the exit gates. That solution saves money now and in the future. Still slows traffic. Still looks like we are a gated place (for whatever that does).
You won me over. Logical. Has my vote. Makes sense. Get rid of the cards and readers and let the entry gates work same as exit gates. Where there are two entry gates make them have a staggered opening for a “zippered” entry effect.

[coffeebean]

The exit gates don't close between cars.

Someone up-thread referred to that as "tailgating". I don't think so. I see plenty of cars exiting through the gates in a line of cars and the gates do not come down between cars. It's like there is no gate. I'm one of those who "tailgates" behind the car in front of me and does not let the gate come down as I exit. I would much prefer the exit gates be removed completely and let the golf carts wait until it is clear to proceed.

[coffeebean]

I guess residents have an aversion to rolling down their window and using their access card.:throwtomatoes: Really a strenuous task for sure. I have always been a proponent of using the cards. Perhaps they want to track how often actual residents use the gates. Perhaps they want to prevent "Mirror Clone" card users from approaching the gate terminals too closely or too fast just and potentially damage the equipment because they think it activated and crash through the arm (I have witnessed this three times). I think they should give some type of bonus for residents that use their valid cards for the amount of times they use it instead of pushing the button. Upgrading the technology is a good thing.

I'm one of those who does have an aversion to opening my window. Why let the hot air into the car? Why let the rain wet the interior of my car door? Nope, not for me. I like that I can open the gate just by holding my card to the window. Works every time without opening the window.

[Sandy and Ed]

About the sticker: What happens when you get a new vehicle? Wanna bet there's a charge for new stickers? With the card you get rid of the car but keep the card. And, as stated earlier, why even have a card? Automatic gates in just like automatic gates out solves the "problem".
Don’t put the sticker on the window. Put it on a small piece of clear plastic that you can move from auto to golf cart, etc.

[Duane McCartney]

The response seemed logical and reasonable to me.

As far as duplicates - What prevents a resident from giving a duplicate to friends in other communities? I can understand the districts stand on duplicates.

Everybody knows about the Red button, so if you drive a passenger vehicle you don't need a pass, so having duplicates isn't really an issue. These are also public roads, so they can't keep the public from using them, pass or no pass.

[Fastskiguy]

Isn't the whole idea kinda like Sams Club? Where you have to get your cart checked when you leave? It's supposed to make you feel special having to roll down your window and scan your card.

Oh and let a golf car or two get thru too.

Joe

[txfan]

Now eight pages of comments about one person’s side hustle being threatened. He isn’t “giving out” mirror-activated devices. He’s selling them.


I heard a rumor from Bruce that the gate card system in the Villages is going to change. Be forewarned that I have been giving out and using the devices that are placed in car mirrors to activate the gates for over a year.

[golfing eagles]

Now eight pages of comments about one person’s side hustle being threatened. He isn’t “giving out” mirror-activated devices. He’s selling them.


I heard a rumor from Bruce that the gate card system in the Villages is going to change. Be forewarned that I have been giving out and using the devices that are placed in car mirrors to activate the gates for over a year.

I do hope you realize that you just committed libel against the OP. And since he is a public figure of sorts involved in government here in the Villages, he might have a decent case.

[Djean1981]

I do hope you realize that you just committed libel against the OP. And since he is a public figure of sorts involved in government here in the Villages, he might have a decent case.
How is it libel? Look up the Florida libel laws..

[golfing eagles]

How is it libel?

Here's the quote:

"one person’s side hustle being threatened. He isn’t “giving out” mirror-activated devices. He’s selling them."

So to meet the definition of libel it must:

Be untrue----------------------------------------------------------check
Be public-----------------------------------------------------------check
Be intentional-----------------------------------------------------check
Cause damages-------------------------------------------------????????always the big question.

Does being accused of being a liar and having a "side hustle" result in "damages"?
Better left to the legal experts

[Djean1981]

Here's the quote:

"one person’s side hustle being threatened. He isn’t “giving out” mirror-activated devices. He’s selling them."

So to meet the definition of libel it must:

Be untrue----------------------------------------------------------check
Be public-----------------------------------------------------------check
Be intentional-----------------------------------------------------check
Cause damages-------------------------------------------------????????always the big question.

Does being accused of being a liar and having a "side hustle" result in "damages"?
Better left to the legal experts
I guess, just for clarity, what's the untrue part?

[PanamaKim]

I understand the reason for the gates is traffic control. I think it’s mostly to give golf carts an opportunity to cross in some areas. I’m sure there are many other reasons for traffic control. So if that is the MAIN reason, why the cards, why not just have an automobile pull up and after a few seconds, the gate opens. It accomplishes the same thing without all the gate card trouble and expense.

[golfing eagles]

I guess, just for clarity, what's the untrue part?

selling them
operating a "hustle"

[Djean1981]

selling them
operating a "hustle"
Oh, I don't consider the h____ word in a negative light. It shows
entrepreneurship.

[golfing eagles]

Oh, I don't consider the h____ word in a negative light. It shows
entrepreneurship.

So did Bernie Madoff :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[pauld315]

We are a gated community which, I believe, reduces your insurance premiums… at least my agent asked and that’s what they told me

Not a gated community but rather a community with gates.

[dewilson58]

Not a gated community but rather a community with gates.

OOOOOOOOOOO, but we are:

What is meant by gated community?
Definition of gated community

: a group of homes that are surrounded by a gated wall, fence, or other physical barrier.

what does it matter?!?!?!?

This topic is like dog poop..........it smells.

[Djean1981]

So did Bernie Madoff :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:
It's guess, it's opinion. A waiter that hustles and is on top of his game gets a bigger tip.

[golfing eagles]

It's guess, it's opinion. A waiter that hustles and is on top of his game gets a bigger tip.

hustle (verb) · hustles (third person present) · hustled (past tense) · hustled (past participle) · hustling (present participle)
force (someone) to move hurriedly or unceremoniously in a specified direction:
"they hustled him into the back of a horse-drawn wagon"
push roughly; jostle:
"they were hissed and hustled as they went in"
SIMILAR:
jostle
push
push roughly
bump
knock
shove

hurry; bustle:
"he had to retag second base and hustle back to first"
SIMILAR:
manhandle
push
shove
thrust
frogmarch
bulldoze

INFORMAL
NORTH AMERICAN
obtain by forceful action or persuasion:
"the brothers headed to New York to try and hustle a record deal"
(HUSTLE SOMEONE INTO)
coerce or pressure someone into doing or choosing something:
"don't be hustled into anything"
SIMILAR:
coerce
force
compel
pressure
pressurize
badger

sell aggressively:
"he hustled his company's oil around the country"
obtain by illicit action; swindle; cheat:
"Linda hustled money from men she met"
NORTH AMERICAN
INFORMAL
engage in prostitution.

Aha---different definitions. At least no one was referring to the very last one:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Djean1981]

hustle (verb) · hustles (third person present) · hustled (past tense) · hustled (past participle) · hustling (present participle)
force (someone) to move hurriedly or unceremoniously in a specified direction:
"they hustled him into the back of a horse-drawn wagon"
push roughly; jostle:
"they were hissed and hustled as they went in"
SIMILAR:
jostle
push
push roughly
bump
knock
shove

hurry; bustle:
"he had to retag second base and hustle back to first"
SIMILAR:
manhandle
push
shove
thrust
frogmarch
bulldoze

INFORMAL
NORTH AMERICAN
obtain by forceful action or persuasion:
"the brothers headed to New York to try and hustle a record deal"
(HUSTLE SOMEONE INTO)
coerce or pressure someone into doing or choosing something:
"don't be hustled into anything"
SIMILAR:
coerce
force
compel
pressure
pressurize
badger

sell aggressively:
"he hustled his company's oil around the country"
obtain by illicit action; swindle; cheat:
"Linda hustled money from men she met"
NORTH AMERICAN
INFORMAL
engage in prostitution.

Aha---different definitions. At least no one was referring to the very last one:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:
We agree that hustle can mean many things. Therefore.. opinion.

[JKELLYNY]

Why blame landscapers? All anyone has to do is push the button to open gates in our.”make believe” gated community.

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

Have you ever been behind some of these people, while they are holding there cards up against the car window ? I’m usually never in a hurry but it’s almost comical sometimes seeing them move it around , finally giving up and opening the window,which for some stretching out there arm to open the gate is probably the only exercise they’ll get all day.

[twoplanekid]

Now eight pages of comments about one person’s side hustle being threatened. He isn’t “giving out” mirror-activated devices. He’s selling them.


I heard a rumor from Bruce that the gate card system in the Villages is going to change. Be forewarned that I have been giving out and using the devices that are placed in car mirrors to activate the gates for over a year.

Please read my post # 1 and post #86 which I will repeat again for all to read->

I don’t sell cloned gate cards. Having used a cloned gate card and then firmly believing it’s a better system than using the old card, I gave cards out for free to friends and fellow Villages so that they could also enjoy using them. Those that have never used one should be careful to challenge those that have done so. Before giving the cards out for free, I specifically asked District staff if it was against the law to do so. It’s not against the law to clone these cards!

I read the NSCUDD agenda and sometimes the District 10 agenda. But, I hardly ever read the agenda for the other 16 CDDs and don’t believe how it was worded in the agenda that I would perceive this change was going to prevent the better cloned cards to not work.

Now, I have to go from a better gate card system to one that in my opinion is poor after having used both. I have asked District staff to let both sellers and Villagers know that the cloned cards will stop working sometime in the future.

Rick Rademacher

[billethkid]

Way too many folks here, have no idea how a real gated community functions.

The Villages is not a gated community.....not even close!

_________________________________________________

:censored:

[Bill14564]

Please read my post # 86 which I will repeat again for all to read->

...

I read the NSCUDD agenda and sometimes the District 10 agenda. But, I hardly ever read the agenda for the other 16 CDDs and don’t believe how it was worded in the agenda that I would perceive this change was going to prevent the better cloned cards to not work.

...
Rick Rademacher

I read the agenda, attended the meeting, read the documents (https://district.novusagenda.com/AgendaPublic/CoverSheet.aspx?ItemID=60740&MeetingID=2441), and listened to the presentation. The new system uses the existing cards and the existing readers. I heard nothing about clone cards being disabled (this was in my post #73 which I will not repeat). What did you read or hear that implies clone cards will stop working?

[dadspet]

I appreciate your post to attempt to explain a new gate card system. But, to me, it read as mostly gobblygook. Can you condense it down to something people can understand?
I agree!

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

In Tampa many gated communities had a sticker on the side window with a bar code to enter your neighborhood.
The good part was you didn’t have to open your window.
Why couldn’t we have this instead of the card?

Because those are gate-restricted communities. The Villages is not.

Our roads are public roads. Anyone has legal access to them (with VERY few exceptions such as that Hickory Hammock area near Spanish Springs). The gates - are property of the Villages. The roads that those gates cross are taxpayer-owned roads.

You don't have the /right/ to duplicate those cards or card codes and bypass the system to give non-residents entry. You don't have to like that rule, but that's the rule. Y'all are such sticklers about the deed restrictions and how no one in your neighborhood should break any rules, and then they'll have nothing to complain about.

Well - this is a rule. If you aren't breaking it, then you have nothing to complain about. You knew about the gate cards when you bought your property. If you didn't like it, you shouldn't have moved here.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Now eight pages of comments about one person’s side hustle being threatened. He isn’t “giving out” mirror-activated devices. He’s selling them.


I heard a rumor from Bruce that the gate card system in the Villages is going to change. Be forewarned that I have been giving out and using the devices that are placed in car mirrors to activate the gates for over a year.

He's not selling them. He's giving them away. He's basically helping non-residents circumvent the system that our community fees (amenity fees, assessments, I have no idea which but it's Villager homeowners who pay for it, not non-Villagers via taxes) pay for.

He doesn't have to like it. And he's not "breaking the law." But he is breaking the rules (which is not the same as breaking the law). Seems hypocritical to me, that people who pounce on anyone who violates deed restrictions in a deed restricted community, would have no problem violating the rules in a community governed with rules.

[bob47]

I fully understand the need for the gates to slow traffic etc but why are card readers and cards even needed? Just have the gates open and close just as the exit gates do or as they do now when a car approaches. It will serve the exact same purpose and any specific raise/lower time delay can be set in it to slow down traffic when a car approaches.

This question, this VERY GOOD question, has been asked several times on this forum. None of the local "experts" has offered an explanation of what's wrong with this idea. Probably because it's a good idea.

[Altavia]

Now, I have to go from a better gate card system to one that in my opinion is poor after having used both. I have asked District staff to let both sellers and Villagers know that the cloned cards will stop working sometime in the future.

Rick Rademacher

Doubtful the motivation is to disable cloned cards. Don't think that is possible without disabling all cards.

I read the intent is to upgrade and prepare the systems for a more state of the art system that no longer requires rolling a window down to activate the gate.

One result of this upgrade would be to use a different; device, barcode, ... to activate the gate. This existing cards would be phased out at some point.

[Bill14564]

...

You don't have the /right/ to duplicate those cards or card codes and bypass the system to give non-residents entry. You don't have to like that rule, but that's the rule. Y'all are such sticklers about the deed restrictions and how no one in your neighborhood should break any rules, and then they'll have nothing to complain about.

Well - this is a rule. If you aren't breaking it, then you have nothing to complain about. You knew about the gate cards when you bought your property. If you didn't like it, you shouldn't have moved here.

He's not selling them. He's giving them away. He's basically helping non-residents circumvent the system that our community fees (amenity fees, assessments, I have no idea which but it's Villager homeowners who pay for it, not non-Villagers via taxes) pay for.

He doesn't have to like it. And he's not "breaking the law." But he is breaking the rules (which is not the same as breaking the law). Seems hypocritical to me, that people who pounce on anyone who violates deed restrictions in a deed restricted community, would have no problem violating the rules in a community governed with rules.

Can you point to the rule that you believe is being broken? I looked in my deed restrictions and my CDD10 rules but saw nothing about the gates. Somewhere I read about a cost for card replacement but I don't remember reading anything about cloning cards. Where can I find this rule?

The OP stated he was cloning existing cards. If that is the case then he is not aiding non-residents in any way since they would not have a card to begin with. Plus, the purpose of the cloned cards is simply to avoid rolling down a window, not to provide any additional access. As pointed out many times, the roads are not restricted in any way and anyone, resident or not, can get through the gates simply by pressing the red button.

[Bill14564]

Doubtful the motivation is to disable cloned cards. Don't think that is possible without disabling all cards.

I read the intent is to upgrade and prepare the systems for a more state of the art system that no longer requires rolling a window down to activate the gate.

One result of this upgrade would be to use a different; device, barcode, ... to activate the gate. This existing cards would be phased out at some point.

The stated intent, as provided in the presentation linked somewhere above, is to overcome a limitation with the current controller and software. The choice was between adding up to three new readers for every gate or replacing the controller board and database.

Perhaps the new controller board will be compatible with a future upgrade to the reader and cards such that the gate could be activated without rolling down a window but that was not the reason cited for this initial work.

[newgirl]

I don't know how this is happening at all since these are all public streets. How they get away with even having gates is amazing.

[billethkid]

The in gates made to work like the out gates is an excellent idea.
Not many comments because it is a good, low cost solution utilizing the existing capability.

__________________________________________________

:censored:

[twoplanekid]

I read the agenda, attended the meeting, read the documents (https://district.novusagenda.com/AgendaPublic/CoverSheet.aspx?ItemID=60740&MeetingID=2441), and listened to the presentation. The new system uses the existing cards and the existing readers. I heard nothing about clone cards being disabled (this was in my post #73 which I will not repeat). What did you read or hear that implies clone cards will stop working?

I sent this to Brittany Wilson _>

Hi Brittany,

I still have these two questions.

To give me a total picture of the costs, what are the total costs? I understand about the cost savings per year.

Do you know if the current cloned gate cards will still work?

Maybe this is much ado about nothing yet could have been avoided if better/more public information had be given out beforehand in my opinion.

I received this reply back from Brittany Wilson ->

ood morning,

The recurring annual cost for gate maintenance is $97,884. The one time cost to upgrade the system software is $270,255. These costs are split proportionately between Village Center, Sumter Landing and Developer owned gates.

The only cards that will work in the new system are those that are active in our current system when they are migrated over.

Thank you,
Brittany

then I sent ->
Hi Brittany,

When will this migration take place? Is it one gate at a time or when all gates has been migrated that the cloned cards will not work?

Rick

received from Brittany -->

Good afternoon,

This project will take approximately 24 weeks, with a six week lead time on equipment. Each gate will be converted one at a time, and we will run the two systems as the work takes place. With that said, both systems will not be operated at the same location at the same time – each gate will be on one system or the other.

my last message and waiting on a reply from staff (Brittany)->

Are you going to let the Villagers that have cloned cards and the people that are selling them know about your stopping their cards from working? And, is there a gate that I can test my cloned card on to make sure it doesn't work?

Now everyone knows as much as I do about this situation. Please note that all of the communication took place in a public domain messaging system maintained by the District.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Can you point to the rule that you believe is being broken? I looked in my deed restrictions and my CDD10 rules but saw nothing about the gates. Somewhere I read about a cost for card replacement but I don't remember reading anything about cloning cards. Where can I find this rule?

The OP stated he was cloning existing cards. If that is the case then he is not aiding non-residents in any way since they would not have a card to begin with. Plus, the purpose of the cloned cards is simply to avoid rolling down a window, not to provide any additional access. As pointed out many times, the roads are not restricted in any way and anyone, resident or not, can get through the gates simply by pressing the red button.

When replacing gate cards, the homeowner should bring all remaining gate cards as they are issued in sets of two. Lost or stolen gate cards will be replaced at a $15.00 charge per card. Homeowners can also purchase additional gate cards for a $15.00 charge. A total of four gate cards can be issued per home. The payment types accepted are Cash, Check, MasterCard, Visa, and Discover.

If the homeowner can not be present to replace a lost card or to purchase an additional card, the homeowner must complete the Gate Card Authorization form and have it notarized. Please click here for the Gate Card Authorization Form.

No need to remember, there's the actual quote from the website. Notice what's missing from this quote: "except for people who want to just clone existing cards so that homeowners and guests and tenants don't have to go through the trouble of doing it the way we, the owners of these gates, want them to."

That's missing from that quote. So - a reasonable, intuitive, somewhat intelligent person would think "Hmm - they didn't say that there were any exceptions to the rule. I want my case to be an exception. I should either a) accept that I'm not an exception or b) contact the CDD and ask if I can be an exception."

Everyone else - will think they're more important than the rules, and do as they please.

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

I don't know how this is happening at all since these are all public streets. How they get away with even having gates is amazing.your right on point , during my walks I have seen people get to gates not realizing there’s a button and start to make u turns I’ve hollered to just push the button , I have also run into people outside the villages that actually think they can’t enter. I’ve also been surprised more people haven’t complained like the landscape guys people have mentioned that they have to push a button to get access,

streets there taxes help pay for. FYI I like the gates I am a 22 year resident and let me add I’m 83 and never used many of the amenities , golf , pools , rec centers but people who are starting to whine because they shouldn’t have to pay for things they don’t use because there older ,should be allowed to continue to whine , when costs go up whether it is taxes , maintenance , amenities and you can’t afford it , then sell your house for a profit and downsize to somewhere else.

[Bill14564]

...

The only cards that will work in the new system are those that are active in our current system when they are migrated over.

...

My thinking is that whatever information the clone cards send to the reader today make them appear to be a card active in the current system today. Why would they not look the same to the new software?

But to be sure we'll have to wait until the project starts rolling out.

[golfing eagles]

your right on point , during my walks I have seen people get to gates not realizing there’s a button and start to make u turns I’ve hollered to just push the button , I have also run into people outside the villages that actually think they can’t enter. I’ve also been surprised more people haven’t complained like the landscape guys people have mentioned that they have to push a button to get access,

streets there taxes help pay for. FYI I like the gates I am a 22 year resident and let me add I’m 83 and never used many of the amenities , golf , pools , rec centers but people who are starting to whine because they shouldn’t have to pay for things they don’t use because there older ,should be allowed to continue to whine , when costs go up whether it is taxes , maintenance , amenities and you can’t afford it , then sell your house for a profit and downsize to somewhere else.

Yes, “they” help pay for “our” roads, but “we” help pay for “their” roads. Who do you think pays more????

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

Yes, “they” help pay for “our” roads, but “we” help pay for “their” roads. Who do you think pays more????dos it matter , and we don’t have to push a button ON THERE ROADS

[Bill14564]

No need to remember, there's the actual quote from the website. Notice what's missing from this quote: "except for people who want to just clone existing cards so that homeowners and guests and tenants don't have to go through the trouble of doing it the way we, the owners of these gates, want them to."

That's missing from that quote. So - a reasonable, intuitive, somewhat intelligent person would think "Hmm - they didn't say that there were any exceptions to the rule. I want my case to be an exception. I should either a) accept that I'm not an exception or b) contact the CDD and ask if I can be an exception."

Everyone else - will think they're more important than the rules, and do as they please.

Those are the procedures for replacing a lost or stolen card. They say nothing about making copies of the card. I am on record as having two cards. When I sell or rent my property I need to return two cards. If I lose one of them then I'll need to replace it so that I can later return it. That is what the paragraph represents.

Similarly, I have three mailbox keys. When I move I will need to return three mailbox keys. I don't know the cost but I'm sure there is a way to pay to replace lost or stolen key.

But hey, maybe I want four mailbox keys. Why? It doesn't matter, I just want a fourth. I can head up to Ace Hardware and have a copy made, right? Wrong! On the key is clearly printed, "Do Not Duplicate." I assume (haven't looked) that the postal regulations also state, explicitly, that the keys shall not be duplicated.

When there is a rule it is plainly stated. Signs in your yard? No, there is a rule about that. Golf carts exceeding 20mph? No, there is a rule about that. Run a hair salon out of your home? No, there is a rule about that. Copy your garage door code to your car so you don't have to carry the remote? Yep, no rule against that. Copy a RFID card to a sticker that can be placed behind a mirror? Apparently no rule against that either.

Duplication of any type of credentials for an access control system is not favorably looked upon. Of course it is. Making multiple copies of the key to my house would not be favorably looked upon either. But, there is a big difference between, "we would prefer it not happen," and, "see section xx.xxx of the restrictions you agreed to."

But hey, I have no dog in this fight. It's just a pet peeve of mine to have someone say, "It's the law," when there is nothing they can point to that supports their opinion.

[fdpaq0580]

Have you ever been behind some of these people, while they are holding there cards up against the car window ? I’m usually never in a hurry but it’s almost comical sometimes seeing them move it around , finally giving up and opening the window,which for some stretching out there arm to open the gate is probably the only exercise they’ll get all day.

That is why I use my card even if the gate has been knocked off. Exercise! Left my village twice today and really worked up a sweat.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Those are the procedures for replacing a lost or stolen card. They say nothing about making copies of the card. I am on record as having two cards. .

You have to read ALL of the information, and not just cherry-pick a few words that justify your opinion. Here's the part you aren't noticing:

A total of four gate cards can be issued per home. The payment types accepted are Cash, Check, MasterCard, Visa, and Discover.

If the homeowner can not be present to replace a lost card or to purchase an additional card, the homeowner must complete the Gate Card Authorization form and have it notarized. Please click here for the Gate Card Authorization Form.

Translation: only 4 cards PER HOME - your home comes with 2. If you want more than 2, you have to use a special form and get it notarized, OR show up in person to up to 2 additional cards. If you do anything OTHER than be in possession of 2 cards that come with the home, AND pay for and be AUTHORIZED for up to two more cards, then you are doing something wrong.

[billethkid]

Why so much effort to get more cards or clone cards etc. when all one has to do is push the button.

I look forward to finding out what the $270,000 upgrade accomplishes that the existing system can not handle.

[JMintzer]

I'm one of those who does have an aversion to opening my window. Why let the hot air into the car? Why let the rain wet the interior of my car door? Nope, not for me. I like that I can open the gate just by holding my card to the window. Works every time without opening the window.

Somebody didn't read the thread...

More than a few people (myself included) have stated that your method DOES NOT WORK in their cars...

[JMintzer]

Someone up-thread referred to that as "tailgating". I don't think so. I see plenty of cars exiting through the gates in a line of cars and the gates do not come down between cars. It's like there is no gate. I'm one of those who "tailgates" behind the car in front of me and does not let the gate come down as I exit. I would much prefer the exit gates be removed completely and let the golf carts wait until it is clear to proceed.

How friendly...

https://i0.wp.com/www.roamingabout.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/DSC05573.jpg

[JMintzer]

Because those are gate-restricted communities. The Villages is not.

Our roads are public roads. Anyone has legal access to them (with VERY few exceptions such as that Hickory Hammock area near Spanish Springs). The gates - are property of the Villages. The roads that those gates cross are taxpayer-owned roads.

You don't have the /right/ to duplicate those cards or card codes and bypass the system to give non-residents entry. You don't have to like that rule, but that's the rule. Y'all are such sticklers about the deed restrictions and how no one in your neighborhood should break any rules, and then they'll have nothing to complain about.

Well - this is a rule. If you aren't breaking it, then you have nothing to complain about. You knew about the gate cards when you bought your property. If you didn't like it, you shouldn't have moved here.

What "rule" is being broken?

[JMintzer]

He's not selling them. He's giving them away. He's basically helping non-residents circumvent the system that our community fees (amenity fees, assessments, I have no idea which but it's Villager homeowners who pay for it, not non-Villagers via taxes) pay for.

He doesn't have to like it. And he's not "breaking the law." But he is breaking the rules (which is not the same as breaking the law). Seems hypocritical to me, that people who pounce on anyone who violates deed restrictions in a deed restricted community, would have no problem violating the rules in a community governed with rules.

Again, what "rule"?

And how is he helping "non-residents"? Do you know for a fact that he is giving them out to "non-residents"?

[JMintzer]

No need to remember, there's the actual quote from the website. Notice what's missing from this quote: "except for people who want to just clone existing cards so that homeowners and guests and tenants don't have to go through the trouble of doing it the way we, the owners of these gates, want them to."

That's missing from that quote. So - a reasonable, intuitive, somewhat intelligent person would think "Hmm - they didn't say that there were any exceptions to the rule. I want my case to be an exception. I should either a) accept that I'm not an exception or b) contact the CDD and ask if I can be an exception."

Everyone else - will think they're more important than the rules, and do as they please.

Well, the OP specifically asked if it was against the rules to clone cards and was told that it wasn't... So there's that...

[Mama C]

You moved here with a card system in place--you moved here knowing that the developer has a business and a family to support.

If you don't like it, you have the option to move to another community.

[Altavia]

Fyi



...

As I mentioned in the initial email, in order for the District to pursue advancements in how the gates are operated (such as bar codes, proximity readers etc.) , we have to upgrade the software to support it. These are upgrades that the AAC and PWAC have requested updates on once this initial phase is complete.
__________________________________________________ ________
.

[fdpaq0580]

Someone up-thread referred to that as "tailgating". I don't think so. I see plenty of cars exiting through the gates in a line of cars and the gates do not come down between cars. It's like there is no gate. I'm one of those who "tailgates" behind the car in front of me and does not let the gate come down as I exit. I would much prefer the exit gates be removed completely and let the golf carts wait until it is clear to proceed.

That may have been me. I was referring to someone tailgating on the way IN, not out. Didn't know about the red button? Didn't have a card? Just to lazy or prissy to roll down their own window? This one I could forgive, had a broken arm?

[fdpaq0580]

Why so much effort to get more cards or clone cards etc. when all one has to do is push the button.

I look forward to finding out what the $270,000 upgrade accomplishes that the existing system can not handle.

Why don't we all put the cards away and just hit the button. Unless our individual movements are being traced for some reason, what function do the cards really serve??? If the button/camera is good enough security for the general public, why do residents need extra I'd/card to enter?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Why don't we all put the cards away and just hit the button. Unless our individual movements are being traced for some reason, what function do the cards really serve??? If the button/camera is good enough security for the general public, why do residents need extra I'd/card to enter?

One possible situation where these cards come in handy:

Someone commits a crime at the Target plaza right outside the Villages on 441, and they took off in a dark grey Buick 3000. Your next door neighbor notices that YOUR Buick 3000 has been gone for three days, but you haven't been home to move it. You live in DelMar, which is - right near Target Plaza. You call community watch. They check the card history and see that SOMEONE used that card just yesterday, at the Boone gate off 441.

Well now, it's possible you've just helped the police solve TWO crimes - the theft of your car, and the license plate of the car driven by the criminal at Target Plaza - and maybe even possibly you've helped them figure out WHERE your car is now - since they went into the Historic Section - and there's really nothing there except people who live there. It's not a neighborhood that leads to anywhere else.

[cromlich]

I'm sure those that have these "gate card" illegally (landscapers, etc..) will also be upset. :coolsmiley:

They have a red button to get in......how much of our money is being spent on this? Anyone has access to getting in with the red button so why are we doing this at all? It's wrong on so many levels

[cromlich]

The response seemed logical and reasonable to me.

As far as duplicates - What prevents a resident from giving a duplicate to friends in other communities? I can understand the districts stand on duplicates.

What does it matter? All they have to do is push the red button. This is insane.

[HoosierPa]

Don’t worry. Be happy.

[retiredguy123]

Don’t worry. Be happy.
I think you're on the wrong thread.

[HoosierPa]

I sent this to Brittany Wilson _>

Hi Brittany,

I still have these two questions.

To give me a total picture of the costs, what are the total costs? I understand about the cost savings per year.

Do you know if the current cloned gate cards will still work?

Maybe this is much ado about nothing yet could have been avoided if better/more public information had be given out beforehand in my opinion.

I received this reply back from Brittany Wilson ->

ood morning,

The recurring annual cost for gate maintenance is $97,884. The one time cost to upgrade the system software is $270,255. These costs are split proportionately between Village Center, Sumter Landing and Developer owned gates.

The only cards that will work in the new system are those that are active in our current system when they are migrated over.

Thank you,
Brittany

then I sent ->
Hi Brittany,

When will this migration take place? Is it one gate at a time or when all gates has been migrated that the cloned cards will not work?

Rick

received from Brittany -->

Good afternoon,

This project will take approximately 24 weeks, with a six week lead time on equipment. Each gate will be converted one at a time, and we will run the two systems as the work takes place. With that said, both systems will not be operated at the same location at the same time – each gate will be on one system or the other.

my last message and waiting on a reply from staff (Brittany)->

Are you going to let the Villagers that have cloned cards and the people that are selling them know about your stopping their cards from working? And, is there a gate that I can test my cloned card on to make sure it doesn't work?

Now everyone knows as much as I do about this situation. Please note that all of the communication took place in a public domain messaging system maintained by the District.



Be careful or Brittany may block you when her boss finds out here work isn’t getting done because of all the emails with you and others

[retiredguy123]

I haven't heard a logical explanation of why a gate card has a better function than the red button and a camera.

And, if you want security, why not have a 24-hour surveillance camera at every gate? No cards or buttons needed. Just a time delay to open the gate and to prevent two vehicles from going through at the same time.

[twoplanekid]

Be careful or Brittany may block you when her boss finds out here work isn’t getting done because of all the emails with you and others

:icon_wink:
😊

District staff are very good people and dedicated to helping the Villages be the best place for us to live in during our remaining years. When discussing this issue with Bruce after an NSCUDD board meeting, he suggested that I contact Brittany to find the answers to my questions. If you ever attend a NSCUDD board meeting, you will discover that I do ask a lot of questions trying to be as well informed as I can be.

Even Kenny her boss is a good person.:)

[Altavia]

Why don't we all put the cards away and just hit the button. Unless our individual movements are being traced for some reason, what function do the cards really serve??? If the button/camera is good enough security for the general public, why do residents need extra I'd/card to enter?

Interesting question.

Why the concern over the duplication of a key that opens an unlocked door?

What is your info linked to the card being used for?

[Bill14564]

I haven't heard a logical explanation of why a gate card has a better function than the red button and a camera.

And, if you want security, why not have a 24-hour surveillance camera at every gate? No cards or buttons needed. Just a time delay to open the gate and to prevent two vehicles from going through at the same time.

I haven't heard or read an explanation but I've seen one in action. I watched while the driver in front of me took off their seatbelt and stepped out of the car because they weren't close enough to reach the red button. This was amusing once or twice but I fear it would become a regular occurrence if the red button was the only option.

A security camera taking photos and a delayed gate would be more convenient. I wonder what the cost would be to implement that at 200+ gates. Maybe that is one of the upgrades they are considering after the new controller boards are installed.

[NoMoSno]

I haven't heard a logical explanation of why a gate card has a better function than the red button and a camera.

And, if you want security, why not have a 24-hour surveillance camera at every gate? No cards or buttons needed. Just a time delay to open the gate and to prevent two vehicles from going through at the same time.
Cameras do run 24/7 on a loop.
A common misconception is that cameras are activated by pushing the red button.
That's how they catch gate crashers that don't push the button.

[sowilts]

Used all the methods, my Younger Brother told me to just put the card on the window and it works. Use that method now. I do roll my window down from time to time and they still work after three years. Great place to live and would not retire anywhere else. Paradise. Buy a convertible it works so easy with the top down. Sun is shining and is going to be another fantastic day. twoplanedkid seems to post great info and wants to improve how individuals access gates. Good for him. Cheers Oldman. (that's what the called me at work). Customers called me lots more name's.

[Steve]

OOOOOOOOOOO, but we are:

What is meant by gated community?
Definition of gated community

: a group of homes that are surrounded by a gated wall, fence, or other physical barrier.

what does it matter?!?!?!?

This topic is like dog poop..........it smells.
Please feel free to leave this thread at your earliest convenience.

[Steve]

I guess I don’t understand why so many people don’t have the ability to open their window.

Replacement window motor: $185-$360 (Replaced two since we moved here)

Mirror device: Pull up, wait 2 seconds, move on

[Bill14564]

Replacement window motor: $185-$360 (Replaced two since we moved here)

Mirror device: Pull up, wait 2 seconds, move on

Odd that many others haven't mentioned replacing window motors. You aren't the only one rolling your window down, I know I do it all the time and most of the cars in front of me do also. With 70,000+ homes and all the traffic and all the gates and all the people going through those gates you would expect hundreds of motors to need replacing every year.

A system that did not require rolling down a window would be better. This system *might* work through the window (it does for some). Perhaps once this upgrade is completed a mirror device will be investigated but it is sure to come with a cost both to the CDDs/PWAC and to each resident who desires to use it.

[billethkid]

But what does the $270,000 upgrade provide and why?

Who is promoting this upgrade? Why?

$270,000!!!!!

___________________________________________

:censored:

[Bill14564]

But what does the $270,000 upgrade provide and why?

Who is promoting this upgrade? Why?

$270,000!!!!!

___________________________________________

:censored:

That information is available from the PWAC page (link provided above) yet you haven't expended the effort to read it. Why?

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

Replacement window motor: $185-$360 (Replaced two since we moved here)

Mirror device: Pull up, wait 2 seconds, move on wow after living here for 22 years I’ve finally found a person who has had to replace his window motor ,AND NOT ONCE BUT TWICE ,all I can say is WOW

[billethkid]

That information is available from the PWAC page (link provided above) yet you haven't expended the effort to read it. Why?

Incorrect assertion!

[Bill14564]

Incorrect assertion!

Which is incorrect:
1. The information is on the website
2. The link was provided
3. You didn't take the time to read it

And if 3 is the incorrect assertion, then why are you asking questions without also providing the answers?

[Big O]

wow after living here for 22 years I’ve finally found a person who has had to replace his window motor ,AND NOT ONCE BUT TWICE ,all I can say is WOW

I sold window regulators to the OEM's for 30 years. (Both mechanical and electric.) They are designed and tested to a B10 life of one million cycles. That means 90% of them could be cycled 100 times a day for 50 years. (Assuming proper use or accidents.) Please contact me if you have replaced twice, I need lottery tickets

[twoplanekid]

As I started this thread to alert Villagers about changes to the gate system, let me make these three points to present my current take on this situation at this moment in time.

If the numbers presented pan out to be true for future cost savings, the District CDDs should save money on some maintenance costs by making this change.

Will the cloned cards work after these changes are made? I still am not sure from the replays received from District staff and am still waiting on the answer to this question. “Are you going to let the Villagers that have cloned cards and the people that are selling them know about your stopping their cards from working? And, is there a gate that I can test my cloned card on to make sure it doesn't work?”

Why make Villagers go outside the system to have a better system (in my opinion) for activating the gates? If the cloned coin cards still work using the new system, why doesn’t the District provide the option of receiving coin cards from them that can be placed in car mirrors to activate the gates without human intervention? I will ask them that question!

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

I sold window regulators to the OEM's for 30 years. (Both mechanical and electric.) They are designed and tested to a B10 life of one million cycles. That means 90% of them could be cycled 100 times a day for 50 years. (Assuming proper use or accidents.) Please contact me if you have replaced twice, I need lottery tickets I’m not the guy that had it replaced I’m the guy that was being SARCASTIC lol

[fdpaq0580]

Replacement window motor: $185-$360 (Replaced two since we moved here)

Mirror device: Pull up, wait 2 seconds, move on

Maybe you need a different car? Or replace the electric window with a manual one?

[C4Boston]

Those that abuse the rules are most often offended when the rules change.

[fdpaq0580]

Please feel free to leave this thread at your earliest convenience.

You don't appreciate all the valuable and informative and detailed observations? Well! Imagine that!

[hosegooseman]

I asked this question of staff->

I heard a rumor from Bruce that the gate card system in the Villages is going to change. Be forewarned that I have been giving out and using the devices that are placed in car mirrors to activate the gates for over a year.

So, please tell me the reason for the change and why my cards will no longer work. Is there a way that these cards can still work?

I believe that the using the old cards and having to wave them out an open car window is archaic in this electronic age. So, if changes are made when will we receive a device that will automatically raise gates without human interaction?

A very large number of Villagers may be upset when they find out these (auto open) cards no longer work and then need to go back to the old, old way.
I am sorry that this change was not highlighted in a newsletter to let people know that this change was going to take place.

I hope you have some good news for me about this issue as it looks very bad at this point in time.​

and ->
One additional questions about data if collected. What data is collected , who has access to the data and data collected is used for what purpose.
I thought long ago that I was told no data was collected nor retained by the gate card system and not talking about the security cameras at the gates.

Thanks again,


they responded by saying ->


Thank you for reaching out regarding the gate access control system upgrade. This project was approved in September, with support from the Amenity Authority Committee, Project Wide Advisory Committee and the Village Center and Sumter Landing CDDs.

The District has been seeking a new software vendor for a number of years to replace the existing system. As growth continued year after year in concert with the volume of card reads at the gates, the incoming data began to overburden and, at times, exceed the capacity of the existing software database. As a result, there are instances of unauthorized cards successfully opening gates; when the new system is in place, only properly credentialed cards will open the gates.

The District identified Software House C-Cure as a viable alternative to replace the existing software. This software provides a robust and expandable access control system. The capacity of the database is capable of storing one (1) million gate cards and it is administered through one centralized database. An additional benefit to Software House C-Cure is that the software is compatible with nearly all existing peripheral equipment at the gate locations – motors, readers, arms, loops, network electronics etc. In addition, all gate cards issued by the District will continue to work. By implementing this solution, only the controller itself would be replaced.

The access control system at the gates continues to serve a vital role in the community with regard to traffic management, calming and monitoring. The benefits of proper management of the access control system will further enhance the overall management of gate card data, prevent card duplication and provide more robust reporting capabilities. This is a significant benefit to residents, Staff and local law enforcement agencies. Gate card transactions are utilized to understand the volume on certain roadways, identification of individuals in the event property is damaged, and law enforcement routinely asks for reporting at specific locations.

There are certain areas in the community, such as the RV lots, that have limited access and require specific credentials assigned to the gate card. Regardless of the type of access, the District does not condone the unauthorized duplication of cards. When cards are assigned, they are tied to a specific residence or contractor based on the credentials. As with any access control system, it is not expected that these would be duplicated since it would also unnecessarily burden the volume of cards in the system.

The AAC and PWAC both expressed interest in exploring options to improve the method in which the gates are activated, including the type of devices and/or methods for opening a gate arm. The first step in the project is to upgrade the back-end software. Once that is accomplished, Staff will be communicating the Committees/Boards on other opportunities to enhance the functionality of the gates.

I then replied ->

I totally disagree with this assessment and wish that a public discussion had taken place. I understand that access control systems at the gates serve to slow traffic and let golf carts cross. However many of your other comments I would question.

The few that need restricted access to RV lots could have been given special cards. What other areas and how many other Villagers are affected compared to the total Village population?

You never answered my question as to how much detailed data the system is keeping on people accessing public roads. We are not a gate restricted community.

If the volume of individual cards that a new system can handle is 1 million, then what’s the big deal about duplicates? Plus, the cards are cloned to one that is already in the system. I don’t under this concern about duplicates. What are the specific benefits to the public in this new change other than making many thousands of duplicate cards not function?
CLONED CARDS WILL NOT WORK???

I again ask what data is collected and who has access to this data. Is this data used by public or private firms? Can I access the data? A private or public firm is the only one assigning gate cards at this time? Please note that I am not discussing the gate cameras. I believe cameras which are now located at the gates help identify individuals for law enforcement and not gate cards as you suggest.

What is the total cost of the new system for both hardware and software going to be for residents? This change to the gate management system should have been presented and discussed at a large public meeting with details in the paper and on the district website beforehand.

I am on the NSCUDD board and have always advocated for preannounced large public discussions of changes we make that affect the public. NSCUDD has held many advertised large public meetings to discuss changes and I am proud we have done so because that is the way it should be done.

a link to details on the contracts found on districtgov.org

Coversheet (https://district.novusagenda.com/AgendaPublic/CoverSheet.aspx?ItemID=60740&MeetingID=2441)

Cloned cards are not an authorized device. The “mirror” installation is a convenience not a right.

If an upgrade is needed to make sure the rest of the authorized system works properly, then go ahead.

Maybe you could pay again and clone it again?

[retiredguy123]

No need to remember, there's the actual quote from the website. Notice what's missing from this quote: "except for people who want to just clone existing cards so that homeowners and guests and tenants don't have to go through the trouble of doing it the way we, the owners of these gates, want them to."

That's missing from that quote. So - a reasonable, intuitive, somewhat intelligent person would think "Hmm - they didn't say that there were any exceptions to the rule. I want my case to be an exception. I should either a) accept that I'm not an exception or b) contact the CDD and ask if I can be an exception."

Everyone else - will think they're more important than the rules, and do as they please.
According the The Villages customer service office, there is no rule that prohibits the use of a cloned gate card on your vehicle mirror.

[retiredguy123]

Cloned cards are not an authorized device. The “mirror” installation is a convenience not a right.

If an upgrade is needed to make sure the rest of the authorized system works properly, then go ahead.

Maybe you could pay again and clone it again?
Cloned gate cards on your mirror are authorized in that there is no rule that prohibits them. They are planning to change the gate card system which will be designed to cause cloned cards to no longer function sometime during first quarter of next year. But, even then, there will still be no rule prohibiting the cloned cards. This information was obtained from the Villages customer service office.

[JMintzer]

Maybe you need a different car? Or replace the electric window with a manual one?

Maybe it was two different cars?

[billethkid]

[QUOTE=Bill14564;2146779]Which is incorrect:
1. The information is on the website
2. The link was provided
3. You didn't take the time to read it

Your post asserted I did not read the information.....THAT i s what was/is incorrect.

I am in the majority that ask questions to seek an answer.

-______________________________________

:censored:

[JMintzer]

According the The Villages customer service office, there is no rule that prohibits the use of a cloned gate card on your vehicle mirror.

Even though this has been posted several times, there are still some who cannot grasp this concept...

[retiredguy123]

Maybe you need a different car? Or replace the electric window with a manual one?
I don't think it would be possible to replace an electric window with a manual one. Or, if you could, it would cost a lot more than $360, and would be more likely to malfunction over time.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

According the The Villages customer service office, there is no rule that prohibits the use of a cloned gate card on your vehicle mirror.

Even though this has been posted several times, there are still some who cannot grasp this concept...

That also means that The Villages has no obligation to make sure "cloned cards" will continue to work nor supply any sort of "support" to continue their usage.

If Villages' upgrades make existing clones obsolete and someone's "side gig" gets harmed in the process ... tough luck.

[billethkid]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123



"If Villages' upgrades make existing clones obsolete and someone's "side gig" gets harmed in the process ... tough luck."

They will just have to rough it and push the little red button:a20:

______________________________________________
:censored:

[Altavia]

They will just have to rough it and push the little red button:a20:

______________________________________________
:censored:

I installed one of these on my mirror to hit the red button :-)

[coffeebean]

This works for me as well. I keep the card in my wallet and simply hold my wallet up to my closed window and it opens the gate every time.

We keep our gate card in the slot on the sun visor of our car. Works for me every time when I hold the card up to the closed window.

[coffeebean]

I've tried holding my gate card up to and against the closed car window about five separate times and it hasn't worked once.

You need to pull close enough to the card reader. I'm so used to it and I know where I need to be when I pull up to the gate reader. I understand it is the same deal with those card cloned strips that are installed in the side view mirrors.

[Bilyclub]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

According the The Villages customer service office, there is no rule that prohibits the use of a cloned gate card on your vehicle mirror.



That also means that The Villages has no obligation to make sure "cloned cards" will continue to work nor supply any sort of "support" to continue their usage.

If Villages' upgrades make existing clones obsolete and someone's "side gig" gets harmed in the process ... tough luck.


Or after the update the cloners will have a whole lot of business from all the old customers who now need a different cloned thing to save their window motors.

[EdFNJ]

Cloned gate cards on your mirror are authorized in that there is no rule that prohibits them. They are planning to change the gate card system which will be designed to cause cloned cards to no longer function sometime during first quarter of next year. But, even then, there will still be no rule prohibiting the cloned cards. This information was obtained from the Villages customer service office. Until EVERY PERSON'S CARD in The Villages is replaced, I highly doubt cloned cards will stop working because if they are CLONED they will be identical to the original old cards which will continue to work. Can't see how they can be separated. If you read the specs on the cards they use the only codes on the cards which are the assigned numbers and the reader system just reads that. There is no "hidden" non-copyable sub-code they can read that isn't part of the "clone" process, and until they change every card from every person and THEN turn on a new system they should likely continue to work. If someone hands out generic nonexistent codes to people which will work THAT they can track if they really want to look at the thousands of photos (assuming the cameras actually still work) to find the car connected to the faked code.

[coffeebean]

I sent this to Brittany Wilson _>

Hi Brittany,

I still have these two questions.

To give me a total picture of the costs, what are the total costs? I understand about the cost savings per year.

Do you know if the current cloned gate cards will still work?

Maybe this is much ado about nothing yet could have been avoided if better/more public information had be given out beforehand in my opinion.

I received this reply back from Brittany Wilson ->

ood morning,

The recurring annual cost for gate maintenance is $97,884. The one time cost to upgrade the system software is $270,255. These costs are split proportionately between Village Center, Sumter Landing and Developer owned gates.

The only cards that will work in the new system are those that are active in our current system when they are migrated over.

Thank you,
Brittany

then I sent ->
Hi Brittany,

When will this migration take place? Is it one gate at a time or when all gates has been migrated that the cloned cards will not work?

Rick

received from Brittany -->

Good afternoon,

This project will take approximately 24 weeks, with a six week lead time on equipment. Each gate will be converted one at a time, and we will run the two systems as the work takes place. With that said, both systems will not be operated at the same location at the same time – each gate will be on one system or the other.

my last message and waiting on a reply from staff (Brittany)->

Are you going to let the Villagers that have cloned cards and the people that are selling them know about your stopping their cards from working? And, is there a gate that I can test my cloned card on to make sure it doesn't work?

Now everyone knows as much as I do about this situation. Please note that all of the communication took place in a public domain messaging system maintained by the District.



But......the cloned cards are currently active and currently do work so why won't they work with the new system? This is what is confusing to me.

[coffeebean]

Somebody didn't read the thread...

More than a few people (myself included) have stated that your method DOES NOT WORK in their cars...

That is unfortunate for you. Sorry, but mine works every time. And......I HAVE read every post in this thread so far.

[coffeebean]

How friendly...

https://i0.wp.com/www.roamingabout.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/DSC05573.jpg

I am very friendly and very careful at the gates whether I'm driving a car or golf cart. I much prefer to wait until all vehicular traffic is clear before I proceed in my golf cart when waiting at the gates. I also do not proceed when a car driver waves at me to proceed. Cars have the right of way in that case. I do not make eye contact and will wait to proceed when traffic is cleared.

[coffeebean]

That may have been me. I was referring to someone tailgating on the way IN, not out. Didn't know about the red button? Didn't have a card? Just to lazy or prissy to roll down their own window? This one I could forgive, had a broken arm?

Oh sorry, I misunderstood and thought you were referring to exiting. The gates come down waaaaaaay too quickly at the entrance to a village. That is how these gates get knocked off. I would never ever attempt to "tailgate" a car on the way in.

[coffeebean]

~~~

[coffeebean]

Please feel free to leave this thread at your earliest convenience.

I know where you are coming from. I was also put off by that comment. He said and I quote......"This thread is like dog poop. It smells". Not nice.

[coffeebean]

Odd that many others haven't mentioned replacing window motors. You aren't the only one rolling your window down, I know I do it all the time and most of the cars in front of me do also. With 70,000+ homes and all the traffic and all the gates and all the people going through those gates you would expect hundreds of motors to need replacing every year.

A system that did not require rolling down a window would be better. This system *might* work through the window (it does for some). Perhaps once this upgrade is completed a mirror device will be investigated but it is sure to come with a cost both to the CDDs/PWAC and to each resident who desires to use it.

I will be happy to pay for the convenience of not needing to use any card.

[coffeebean]

As I started this thread to alert Villagers about changes to the gate system, let me make these three points to present my current take on this situation at this moment in time.

If the numbers presented pan out to be true for future cost savings, the District CDDs should save money on some maintenance costs by making this change.

Will the cloned cards work after these changes are made? I still am not sure from the replays received from District staff and am still waiting on the answer to this question. “Are you going to let the Villagers that have cloned cards and the people that are selling them know about your stopping their cards from working? And, is there a gate that I can test my cloned card on to make sure it doesn't work?”

Why make Villagers go outside the system to have a better system (in my opinion) for activating the gates? If the cloned coin cards still work using the new system, why doesn’t the District provide the option of receiving coin cards from them that can be placed in car mirrors to activate the gates without human intervention? I will ask them that question!

I thank you for your time and effort to make life just a bit easier for us Villagers. I appreciate your gumption.

[twoplanekid]

I thank you for your time and effort to make life just a bit easier for us Villagers. I appreciate your gumption.

I appreciate all of the comments made in this thread and especially yours as I would hope everyone is trying to make this place an even better place to live in during our late years in life. District staff is impressed by the interest show in this thread. Again, they are good people working for us and will try to accommodate improvements to the systems if feasible. So, I am hopeful that everyone will end up happy in this great place called the Villages.

[dewilson58]

I was also put off by that comment. .

:cryin2:
what were you discouraged from doing??
:shrug:

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

According the The Villages customer service office, there is no rule that prohibits the use of a cloned gate card on your vehicle mirror.



That also means that The Villages has no obligation to make sure "cloned cards" will continue to work nor supply any sort of "support" to continue their usage.

If Villages' upgrades make existing clones obsolete and someone's "side gig" gets harmed in the process ... tough luck.

How the first statement "also means" that "The Villages has no obligation to make sure "cloned cards" will continue to work nor supply any sort of "support" to continue their usage." escapes me...

And this thread has nothing to do with someone's "side gig"...

[JMintzer]

You need to pull close enough to the card reader. I'm so used to it and I know where I need to be when I pull up to the gate reader. I understand it is the same deal with those card cloned strips that are installed in the side view mirrors.

We pulled up so close we scraped the tires. The "hold it up to the window" trick does NOT work with our cards...

The mirror chip works if the tires are a foot or so away from the curb...

[TrapX]

The solution should be the one to lower costs for everyone.
Best savings: That would be no gates at all.
2nd best: If doing thigs the old way is really adding some warm and fuzzy benefit, make them work like the exit gates. That's next lowest cost because: No buttons. No cards, No new systems. No staff salaries to administer the system. No costs for new hardware, computers and ongoing yearly maintenance. Fewer broken arms to repair.
Worst thing: Spend $270k to replicate something that has zero actual value. Spend our money to do all the things that the first 2 solutions can avoid. Spend even more to "enhance" the system so it behaves like the exit gate arms. Seems like a huge waste of OUR money.

[JMintzer]

That is unfortunate for you. Sorry, but mine works every time. And......I HAVE read every post in this thread so far.

Then why would you post this?

"You need to pull close enough to the card reader."

You can't pull up any closer than when your tires are scraping the curb...

[JMintzer]

I am very friendly and very careful at the gates whether I'm driving a car or golf cart. I much prefer to wait until all vehicular traffic is clear before I proceed in my golf cart when waiting at the gates. I also do not proceed when a car driver waves at me to proceed. Cars have the right of way in that case. I do not make eye contact and will wait to proceed when traffic is cleared.

Great response... But of course it was not what I was responding to.

I was responding to your comment that they should do away with all gates and just make golf carts wait...

[JMintzer]

I will be happy to pay for the convenience of not needing to use any card.

Put a chip in your mirror... I've yet to find a gate where that doesn't work...:icon_wink:

[Mrs.Guy]

The solution should be the one to lower costs for everyone.
Best savings: That would be no gates at all.
2nd best: If doing thigs the old way is really adding some warm and fuzzy benefit, make them work like the exit gates. That's next lowest cost because: No buttons. No cards, No new systems. No staff salaries to administer the system. No costs for new hardware, computers and ongoing yearly maintenance. Fewer broken arms to repair.
Worst thing: Spend $270k to replicate something that has zero actual value. Spend our money to do all the things that the first 2 solutions can avoid. Spend even more to "enhance" the system so it behaves like the exit gate arms. Seems like a huge waste of OUR money.

:22yikes: Did they put up those gates AFTER you moved here or did you NOT notice them and how they worked?

Or another possibility could be that people move here because they love how things are done and then once here enjoy complaining about things????? I can't figure it out.....:shrug:

[golfing eagles]

The solution should be the one to lower costs for everyone.
Best savings: That would be no gates at all.
2nd best: If doing thigs the old way is really adding some warm and fuzzy benefit, make them work like the exit gates. That's next lowest cost because: No buttons. No cards, No new systems. No staff salaries to administer the system. No costs for new hardware, computers and ongoing yearly maintenance. Fewer broken arms to repair.
Worst thing: Spend $270k to replicate something that has zero actual value. Spend our money to do all the things that the first 2 solutions can avoid. Spend even more to "enhance" the system so it behaves like the exit gate arms. Seems like a huge waste of OUR money.

You might not feel this "best" if you get rammed by some bozo entering their village at 50 mph.

[Altavia]

:22yikes: Did they put up those gates AFTER you moved here or did you NOT notice them and how they worked?

Or another possibility could be that people move here because they love how things are done and then once here enjoy complaining about things????? I can't figure it out.....:shrug:

Well, when I moved in, our gate was still in construction mode and essentially worked like the exit gates with no card or button press required.

I was "hopeful" they were changing to this method in the new areas.

[Gpsma]

Get rid of these gates...what are they here for? To protect golf carts?
Golf carts should be only on a golf course...thats why they are called GOLF carts.

[dewilson58]

Get rid of these gates...what are they here for? To protect golf carts?
Golf carts should be only on a golf course...thats why they are called GOLF carts.

& to protect walkers, runners, roller-bladers, segwayers.

So let's get rid of everything and everyone.

:MOJE_whot:

[golfing eagles]

Get rid of these gates...what are they here for? To protect golf carts?
Golf carts should be only on a golf course...thats why they are called GOLF carts.

Yeah, right. You did know this is a golf cart community???

[Mrs.Guy]

Get rid of these gates...what are they here for? To protect golf carts?
Golf carts should be only on a golf course...thats why they are called GOLF carts.

:what:

[JMintzer]

Get rid of these gates...what are they here for? To protect golf carts?
Golf carts should be only on a golf course...thats why they are called GOLF carts.

The Developer thought otherwise...

https://i0.wp.com/www.roamingabout.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/DSC05573.jpg

[coffeebean]

:cryin2:
what were you discouraged from doing??
:shrug:

You lost me here. Don't quite know what you are referring to.

[coffeebean]

We pulled up so close we scraped the tires. The "hold it up to the window" trick does NOT work with our cards...

The mirror chip works if the tires are a foot or so away from the curb...

Good that the mirror chip works for you. I've never had one installed on our vehicle so will just continue to use the card.

[coffeebean]

Then why would you post this?

"You need to pull close enough to the card reader."

You can't pull up any closer than when your tires are scraping the curb...

I get it. Your card does not work through the window even if you are on top of the card reader. I just read a couple of posts ago that you scraped your tires trying to get the card reader to work through the window. My comment to pull close to the card reader was several posts ago.

[coffeebean]

Put a chip in your mirror... I've yet to find a gate where that doesn't work...:icon_wink:

I would love to use the chip in the mirror but hubby and I have one car and he does not want to have the chip installed. Oh well, he won that one. I really don't mind having to put the card up to the window but it surely would be nice not having to do that.

[coffeebean]

Get rid of these gates...what are they here for? To protect golf carts?
Golf carts should be only on a golf course...thats why they are called GOLF carts.

Oh no, no, no. You cannot be serious. Many people here use their golf carts as their main mode of transportation here in The Villages. That is what makes this community so unique. Our infrastructure is fantastic and one of a kind in the world to accommodate golf cart transportation to so many restaurants, doctors, retail stores, pharmacies and all sorts of stuff that people go to on a daily basis. The MM Paths is what makes our community special.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I really don't understand why people think it's such a hardship to use the card. Are y'all the wicked witch of the west, that you melt when exposed to water - when it's raining? Do you never take showers, or go to the pool? Or wash your faces or hands? Are you afraid your custom-woven virgin raw silk upholstery in your Rolls Royce will get bleached if you have to roll the window down on a sunny day, long enough to stick a card out and pull it back again?

I mean - what kind of obsessive compulsive disorder or phobia must one have, to be SO averse to using a gate card to get through a gate, in a community where the advertisement shows that there are gates, that people use cards to get through? Why in the world did you move to the Villages at all, if this is so profoundly offensive to your sensibilities that the very thought of using a gate card to get a gate open sends your mind spiraling into rage?

It's a gate. It's a card. It's not a big deal. The [religious] Space Lasers aren't going to come out of the card and steal your soul like the cameras in the microwave ovens do.

Such silliness.

[fdpaq0580]

Get rid of these gates...what are they here for? To protect golf carts?
Golf carts should be only on a golf course...thats why they are called GOLF carts.

Thanks. We needed a HAHA now. HAHA! 😄😃

[fdpaq0580]

I really don't understand why people think it's such a hardship to use the card. Are y'all the wicked witch of the west, that you melt when exposed to water - when it's raining? Do you never take showers, or go to the pool? Or wash your faces or hands? Are you afraid your custom-woven virgin raw silk upholstery in your Rolls Royce will get bleached if you have to roll the window down on a sunny day, long enough to stick a card out and pull it back again?

I mean - what kind of obsessive compulsive disorder or phobia must one have, to be SO averse to using a gate card to get through a gate, in a community where the advertisement shows that there are gates, that people use cards to get through? Why in the world did you move to the Villages at all, if this is so profoundly offensive to your sensibilities that the very thought of using a gate card to get a gate open sends your mind spiraling into rage?

It's a gate. It's a card. It's not a big deal. The [religious] Space Lasers aren't going to come out of the card and steal your soul like the cameras in the microwave ovens do.

Such silliness.

I don't have a Rolls Royce, I have a Hyundai and the seats are plastic/vinyl? When the rain comes in the seat gets slick, so when I hit the breaks I slide onto the floor. So embarrassing! 😡

[Snowbirdtobe]

Make your own tag clones for under $25.
Get the following from Amazon.
HENA 125KHz Card Programmer, Upgraded Handheld RFID Reader Writer Duplicator Copier
ARONGTECH 125khz rewritable T5577 Sticker Coin Adhesive Back Dia 25mm Thickness 1mm

You can read your own card and write coin sized chips.
This will work with all the gates in the villages and I used them to clone my card and tested it in many gates.
This sort of access card can be made secure with passwords encoded on the card during manufacture of the chip and by writing a password on the chip during initial programming. I don't think that this was done and maintained over the 20 years that these cards were issued. I guess we'll all know the answer to that question in a year or so when the project is done.

[JMintzer]

I really don't understand why people think it's such a hardship to use the card. Are y'all the wicked witch of the west, that you melt when exposed to water - when it's raining? Do you never take showers, or go to the pool? Or wash your faces or hands? Are you afraid your custom-woven virgin raw silk upholstery in your Rolls Royce will get bleached if you have to roll the window down on a sunny day, long enough to stick a card out and pull it back again?

I mean - what kind of obsessive compulsive disorder or phobia must one have, to be SO averse to using a gate card to get through a gate, in a community where the advertisement shows that there are gates, that people use cards to get through? Why in the world did you move to the Villages at all, if this is so profoundly offensive to your sensibilities that the very thought of using a gate card to get a gate open sends your mind spiraling into rage?

It's a gate. It's a card. It's not a big deal. The [religious] Space Lasers aren't going to come out of the card and steal your soul like the cameras in the microwave ovens do.

Such silliness.

I used to keep mine in my wallet. That meant I had to dig out my wallet from my back pocket every time I wanted to used it.

And people complain when they're stuck behind someone digging out their card...

Have you seen people drop them when reaching out the window? I have. It's a comedy of errors watching them try to pick up the card since they can't get out of their car...

IIRC, there was a days long thread about a "nasty" gate attendant who didn't run out and pick up someone's card who had dropped it on the ground...

But just clip it to the visor! Okay, what to I use when I'm in a different car?

You're right... Complaining that people don't want to use the card is such silliness...

[Altavia]

...

Have you seen people drop them when reaching out the window? I have. It's a comedy of errors watching them try to pick up the card since they can't get out of their car...

...



After doing that once, I put a small lanyard on the card ;-)

I loved the driver who smacked the red button with her hair brush :-)

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

After doing that once, I put a small lanyard on the card ;-)

I loved the driver who smacked the red button with her hair brush :-)

I've seen some folks with a lanyard for their card. I figured that was why the card has that hole in the top near the edge. I keep mine in the back of my cell phone. The phone goes in the change shelf in the car when I'm driving that, or in the phone-holder in the golf cart when I'm driving that. So I never have to dig for it. I never go anywhere without my phone.

[JMintzer]

I've seen some folks with a lanyard for their card. I figured that was why the card has that hole in the top near the edge. I keep mine in the back of my cell phone. The phone goes in the change shelf in the car when I'm driving that, or in the phone-holder in the golf cart when I'm driving that. So I never have to dig for it. I never go anywhere without my phone.

Can you still charge your phone on the pad charger with cards on the back?

I found it to be a problem with my phone...

[Garywt]

I used to keep mine in my wallet. That meant I had to dig out my wallet from my back pocket every time I wanted to used it.

And people complain when they're stuck behind someone digging out their card...

Have you seen people drop them when reaching out the window? I have. It's a comedy of errors watching them try to pick up the card since they can't get out of their car...

IIRC, there was a days long thread about a "nasty" gate attendant who didn't run out and pick up someone's card who had dropped it on the ground...

But just clip it to the visor! Okay, what to I use when I'm in a different car?

You're right... Complaining that people don't want to use the card is such silliness...

You do know you can move the card from car to car or even to the golf cart. Another option is to get additional cards.

[billethkid]

You do know you can move the card from car to car or even to the golf cart. Another option is to get additional cards.

or simply push the little red button

[Bilyclub]

Gate Card Mirror Chip Installed at your Home. Want to save your Driver side window motor or stay dry while entering your Village Gate. Have a Gate Card Mirror Chip installed in your driver side car mirror and you will not have to open your window at the gate again. Installations are available for Cars, Golf Carts and Motorcycles. Installations done throughout the Villages. Call today to set up an Installation appointment. Installed by a Village resident. Cost is $25 and includes an additional gate card.


Apparently you haven't read the whole thread. They are updating the system and are not stating if the current cloned stuff will still work with the new system.

[golfing eagles]

I don't have a Rolls Royce, I have a Hyundai and the seats are plastic/vinyl? When the rain comes in the seat gets slick, so when I hit the breaks I slide onto the floor. So embarrassing! 😡

I'm sorry:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[JMintzer]

You do know you can move the card from car to car or even to the golf cart. Another option is to get additional cards.

I found it easier to get the mirror chip...

Good thing we have choices, isn't it?

[Garywt]

I found it easier to get the mirror chip...

Good thing we have choices, isn't it?

Yes but the new gate readers are supposedly eliminating the cloned cards from working. Sounds like the Villages only wants the given cards to work.

[Altavia]

Yes but the new gate readers are supposedly eliminating the cloned cards from working. Sounds like the Villages only wants the given cards to work.

This is technically unlikely unless all cards are replaced..

[MrFlorida]

Just push the red button.

Pushing the red button as well as waving your gate card is easy enough, However people with the duplicate in the mirror don't have to roll down the window to do it....that's the reason people are upset.

[retiredguy123]

Pushing the red button as well as waving your gate card is easy enough, However people with the duplicate in the mirror don't have to roll down the window to do it....that's the reason people are upset.
Envy?

[eyc234]

Apparently you haven't read the whole thread. They are updating the system and are not stating if the current cloned stuff will still work with the new system.

:faint: So you bought an off market product and you want to complain about it not working with technology changes. Look at the changes that occur every day in technology on phones, cars, tv's, laptops, tablets, etc and no one complains. That is the way things are and will continue to be.

[eyc234]

Pushing the red button as well as waving your gate card is easy enough, However people with the duplicate in the mirror don't have to roll down the window to do it....that's the reason people are upset.

:cryin2: Have a card in every vehicle, do not roll down window and card works. We have seen and ridden with those that have chip and it requires getting just as close and just as slow as flashing card on window. A lot of complaining about nothing. Your 5 year old phone does not work on 5G either is that part of The Villages fault as well.

[billethkid]

Yes but the new gate readers are supposedly eliminating the cloned cards from working. Sounds like the Villages only wants the given cards to work.

Or simply push the little red button.....like everybody that doesn't live here does....works every time!!

______________________________________________

:censored:

[fdpaq0580]

Or simply push the little red button.....like everybody that doesn't live here does....works every time!!

______________________________________________

:censored:

(spoken in a whiney voice) But then I would have to roll my window down. All the cool/warm air would escape, and I might get wet if its raining. 😏😧
Life here is so hard.

[Garywt]

This is technically unlikely unless all cards are replaced..

That is probably true but the Villages is trying to gain back control.

[Garywt]

I use it often as I only have 2 cards and they are usually in the golf carts.

Or simply push the little red button.....like everybody that doesn't live here does....works every time!!

______________________________________________

:censored:

[JMintzer]

Yes but the new gate readers are supposedly eliminating the cloned cards from working. Sounds like the Villages only wants the given cards to work.

If the current cards continue to work, the cloned chips will continue to work. They are identical...

[JMintzer]

:cryin2: Have a card in every vehicle, do not roll down window and card works. We have seen and ridden with those that have chip and it requires getting just as close and just as slow as flashing card on window. A lot of complaining about nothing. Your 5 year old phone does not work on 5G either is that part of The Villages fault as well.

Tell me you didn't read the thread without telling me you didn't read the thread...

Once again... Holding the card up to the window DOES NOT WORK in my wife's car.

I don't know if it's a weak chip or if there's some sort of tinting in the window that interferes, but it simply does not work.

Your "new technology" analogy also fails, since the mirror chip is IDENTICAL to the chip inside your card.

If they are going to phase out the current card system, fine. Then the mirror chips won't work, either.

[JMintzer]

(spoken in a whiney voice) But then I would have to roll my window down. All the cool/warm air would escape, and I might get wet if its raining. 😏😧
Life here is so hard.

I guess you've never seen the little old ladies going back and forth, trying to get close enough to reach the red button...

I'm 6"1'. I have no problem reaching the damn button. But I've seen people actually open their door, trying to get to the "simple red button"...

[billethkid]

That is probably true but the Villages is trying to gain back control.

Gain control of what?
Public street!!
ANYBODY can come and go by simply pushing the little red button!!!

Control????????:1rotfl::1rotfl:

_________________________________________________

:censored: