Seven Years of Global Temperature Data

[sounding]

The October 2022 UAH (Univ of Alabama at Huntsville) Satellite DATA is now in and the 7-year trend is still in a slight downward trend. Even though this year (so far) is a tad warmer than last year, the global DATA trend for the last 7 years shows slight cooling. The NOAA global surface temperature DATA reflects a similar slight cooling trend. Plus, November brings early snows ... Mammoth ski season to open early with fresh snow - Los Angeles Times (https://www.latimes.com/travel/story/2022-11-02/mammoth-ski-season-open-early)

[Bill14564]

Is there a link to the source of this graph?

[sounding]

Is there a link to the source of this graph?

Here is the source data ... https://www.nsstc.uah.edu/data/msu/v6.0/tlt/uahncdc_lt_6.0.txt

And here is the monthly UAH plot of this data ... Latest Global Temps « Roy Spencer, PhD (https://www.drroyspencer.com/latest-global-temperatures/)

[tuccillo]

Here is the non cherry picked chart.

Latest Global Temps « Roy Spencer, PhD (https://www.drroyspencer.com/latest-global-temperatures/)

Is there a link to the source of this graph?

[sounding]

Here is the non cherry picked chart.

Latest Global Temps « Roy Spencer, PhD (https://www.drroyspencer.com/latest-global-temperatures/)

I already provided the Roy Spencer graph source -- nothing to hide here. Besides, there is no cherry-picking. I simply plotted all January through October temperature data from 2015 to 2022. Where is the cherry picking? When the November data comes in, I will plot that data -- and then subsequently for the December data ... a very simple straight forward process. And over the last 8 years of data, it shows a 7-year slight cooling trend.

[tuccillo]

7 years is not a reasonable length of time for a trend. Cherry picking is certainly appropriate here. Have you learned what a logarithm is?

I already provided the Roy Spencer graph source -- nothing to hide here. Besides, there is no cherry-picking. I simply plotted all January through October temperature data from 2015 to 2022. Where is the cherry picking? When the November data comes in, I will plot that data -- and then subsequently for the December data ... a very simple straight forward process. And over the last 8 years of data, it shows a 7-year slight cooling trend.

[sounding]

7 years is not a reasonable length of time for a trend. Cherry picking is certainly appropriate here. Have you learned what a logarithm is?

Anyone call claim what is good or not good, but the cooling trend began after 2015, which is why I plotted that data -- good or bad -- this data shows a cooling trend. The question is ... how long with this continue? Another question is ... why the cooling trend while CO2 continues its steady and steep upward slope?

[tuccillo]

Again, 7 years is not a trend. If you want to consider 40 years then perhaps it is worth a look. So, please stop, you are embarrassing yourself. How are you doing on learning what a logarithm is?

Anyone call claim what is good or not good, but the cooling trend began after 2015, which is why I plotted that data -- good or bad -- this data shows a cooling trend. The question is ... how long with this continue? Another question is ... why the cooling trend while CO2 continues its steady and steep upward slope?

[dewilson58]

Here is the non cherry picked chart.

Latest Global Temps « Roy Spencer, PhD (https://www.drroyspencer.com/latest-global-temperatures/)

Thanks

[MorTech]

The cooling trend started with solar cycle 24 and continues today. ..Inside a 300 year warming trend.

[Two Bills]

I like that!

95686

[Taltarzac725]

54 Great Sources for Climate Change News | Online Public Health (https://onlinepublichealth.gwu.edu/resources/sources-for-climate-news/)

There are many sources out there about global warming.

[sounding]

54 Great Sources for Climate Change News | Online Public Health (https://onlinepublichealth.gwu.edu/resources/sources-for-climate-news/)

There are many sources out there about global warming.

During the Little Ice Age there were even more sources explaining why witches caused extreme weather and fast growing glaciers -- and most sources were from government and church leaders.

[Byte1]

Whether it gets warmer or colder, it's gonna happen whether man inhabits the earth or not.

[Taltarzac725]

During the Little Ice Age there were even more sources explaining why witches caused extreme weather and fast growing glaciers -- and most sources were from government and church leaders.

What do witches have to do with global warming? The science is there. Persecuting witches was a widespread abuse of power and had little to do with facts.

[sounding]

Whether it gets warmer or colder, it's gonna happen whether man inhabits the earth or not.

Ditto -- and the best part is that CO2 helps make the earth greener and helps keep the earth comfortable for humans ... we are after all tropical life forms since we were born without fur. Man-made CO2 is helping to make our climate great again.

[sounding]

What do witches have to do with global warming? The science is there. Persecuting witches was a widespread abuse of power and had little to do with facts.

"Had little to do with facts" is exactly right -- just like today. The facts are so little that no one can identify how much "man-made" CO2 warmed the earth last year.

[Bill14564]

I already provided the Roy Spencer graph source -- nothing to hide here. Besides, there is no cherry-picking. I simply plotted all January through October temperature data from 2015 to 2022. Where is the cherry picking? When the November data comes in, I will plot that data -- and then subsequently for the December data ... a very simple straight forward process. And over the last 8 years of data, it shows a 7-year slight cooling trend.

Why show only seven years? Seven seems like a strange number to choose. What would the graph look like if you showed 4 or 10 or 20 years?

[Taltarzac725]

Why show only seven years? Seven seems like a strange number to choose. What would the graph look like if you showed 4 or 10 or 20 years?

It should show a good length of years.

[sounding]

Why show only seven years? Seven seems like a strange number to choose. What would the graph look like if you showed 4 or 10 or 20 years?

Because that's when the cooling trend began -- and now we wait and see what happens next ...

[Bill14564]

Because that's when the cooling trend began -- and now we wait and see what happens next ...

You picked the starting point so as to show the desired trend? Isn't that just a bit dishonest?

BTW: The 4, 10, and 20 year charts all show a warming trend. Perhaps the cooling trend lasted only three years and now we are back in warming?

[sounding]

You picked the starting point so as to show the desired trend? Isn't that just a bit dishonest?

BTW: The 4, 10, and 20 year charts all show a warming trend. Perhaps the cooling trend lasted only three years and now we are back in warming?

I picked the point at which slight global cooling started. This cooling is partially due to increasing incursions of polar outbreaks, accompanied by a cooling ENSO and PDO. This is why the hurricane trend has been decreasing for the past 2 years. Data also shows a weakening polar vortex, which is commonly indicative of more polar outbreaks to come -- at least in the near future.

[fdpaq0580]

Whether it gets warmer or colder, it's gonna happen whether man inhabits the earth or not.

But it wouldn't be the same with out us. 👀

[BrianL99]

Again, 7 years is not a trend. If you want to consider 40 years then perhaps it is worth a look. So, please stop, you are embarrassing yourself. How are you doing on learning what a logarithm is?

Surely you've heard the phrase: "The Emperor has no clothes"?

You're embarrassing yourself.

Instead of worrying about meaningless logarithms, look up the word "trend" in the dictionary and learn what it means. You're surely not the arbiter of how long something must exist before it qualifies as a "trend".

[Robbb]

More proof of global warming.

[sounding]

But it wouldn't be the same with out us. 👀

Fortunately, humans are helping to improve earth's climate by adding more CO2 to the air. It's odd that so many believe CO2 to be a satanic gas -- and yet no one even knows how much "man-made" CO2 warmed the earth last year. We all know exactly how much CO2 increased last year, or how much gasoline prices increased last year -- but not how much "man-made" CO2 increased earth's temperature. Think about that. Why is that not known? What is the news media hiding - besides the 7-year cooling trend? The answer is available through the use of a globally recognized equation which was created by the world's greatest scientists (including Einstein's contributions). This equation is publicly accessible via a computer program created by the US Government, which accurately describes (to the best of human knowledge) how CO2 and all other greenhouses gases affect our atmosphere. For those who don't know this equation or the program that runs it ... they will be discussed Nov 17 at 1:30 PM at Laurel Manor.

[fdpaq0580]

Fortunately, humans are helping to improve earth's climate by adding more CO2 to the air. It's odd that so many believe CO2 to be a satanic gas -- and yet no one even knows how much "man-made" CO2 warmed the earth last year. We all know exactly how much CO2 increased last year, or how much gasoline prices increased last year -- but not how much "man-made" CO2 increased earth's temperature. Think about that. Why is that not known? What is the news media hiding - besides the 7-year cooling trend? The answer is available through the use of a globally recognized equation which was created by the world's greatest scientists (including Einstein's contributions). This equation is publicly accessible via a computer program created by the US Government, which accurately describes (to the best of human knowledge) how CO2 and all other greenhouses gases affect our atmosphere. For those who don't know this equation or the program that runs it ... they will be discussed Nov 17 at 1:30 PM at Laurel Manor.

I'm sure it would be very interesting, but I will not be attending due to prior engagement. Enjoy!

[sounding]

I'm sure it would be very interesting, but I will not be attending due to prior engagement. Enjoy!

And this information will also be presented on Nov 14 at 1PM at Bridgeport.

[nick demis]

If you look at 5, 10 or100 year charts you are not looking at a true representation of what is taking place. Looking at 10,000, 100,000 year or greater duration charts to find out where we are in the climate cycle. Then you will see how little humans have on the changing climate.

[Cmacnair@hotmail.com]

Whatever you do, please do not confuse our U.S. climate czar with the fax’s.

[Worldseries27]

what do witches have to do with global warming? The science is there. Persecuting witches was a widespread abuse of power and had little to do with facts.
so hermione is safe?

[tuccillo]

I am pretty sure I know a lot more about the science than you since I am a retired research meteorologist. There is considerable short term variation in temperature data. If you are interested in anthropogenic changes then you need to consider long time periods and also compute running means. The original dataset has over 40 years of data from passive radiometers and shows a clear warming trend in the troposphere. Cherry picking a small subset (about 1/6 of the data) from the original dataset is not sound, particularly when you pick a high point as your starting point in an attempt to try to disprove an idea supported by a large amount of peer reviewed, sound research. Sounds like you are another person who doesn’t know what a logarithm is.


Surely you've heard the phrase: "The Emperor has no clothes"?

You're embarrassing yourself.

Instead of worrying about meaningless logarithms, look up the word "trend" in the dictionary and learn what it means. You're surely not the arbiter of how long something must exist before it qualifies as a "trend".

[tuccillo]

Not exactly. We know we are in an interglacial period that started about 12,000 years ago. The concern is that additional anthropogenic warming on top of the interglacial warming will be an issue. The time scale of concern is primarily the next 100 years or so. Estimates put the anthropogenic warming at about 1C. The concerns are that it could be an additional several degrees by the end of the century. While that may not sound like a lot but that is a global change. The regional impacts would be large and could create political upheaval due to migrations away from those regions most impacted.


If you look at 5, 10 or100 year charts you are not looking at a true representation of what is taking place. Looking at 10,000, 100,000 year or greater duration charts to find out where we are in the climate cycle. Then you will see how little humans have on the changing climate.

[Keefelane66]

During the Little Ice Age there were even more sources explaining why witches caused extreme weather and fast growing glaciers -- and most sources were from government and church leaders.
Might as well bring up mythology with dragons why stop at witches? I have concluded from the weather post discussions a visit to the Science & Weather Club would be a waste of my valuable time others may enjoy it.

[Two Bills]

All the scientific stuff is way above my pay grade, but it is obvious that there is a change. The bit I cannot get my head round is that it is man made.
80+ years ago when I was growing up in UK, the air quality was dire. Smog, smoke from coal fires, lead from car exhausts, it was a killer.
Now the air has never been cleaner, but the 'Greens' claim it is still our fault and conditions are getting worse! How?
That's what I find hard to even start to believe.

An article from today's BBC UK service.
The BBC are Climate change zealots.

What is climate change? A really simple guide - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24021772)

[skarra]

Please pseudo-scientists, return to your armchairs and let us all listen to what the overwhelming majority of scientists are telling us - there is a significant and accelerating change in the climate and it is warming.

Where is this energy being stored? It’s in the oceans as you would expect if you think about it. One of the ways we see this is through the melting ice caps both at the polar regions and various countries with significant amounts of snow and ice.

The real question is how will this impact life? It could be positive or negative - that’s probably the real question once we accept the reality of the situation. Water levels are rising - is that a big problem? I’m not saying either way.

So we need to stop turning it into a political battle and start thinking of the consequences and what if anything we need or want to do about it. Eg if polar bears become extinct as a result do we really care given it doesn’t impact our daily lives? Or if there’s more hurricanes do I really care if I live in a part of the country that is rarely impacted by them? Life is certainly going to be different in many ways that we haven’t really thought through but that we now have little control over given the time it takes for this slow moving ship to change course.

[dewilson58]

I am pretty sure I know a lot more about the science than you since I am a retired research meteorologist. There is considerable short term variation in temperature data. If you are interested in anthropogenic changes then you need to consider long time periods and also compute running means. The original dataset has over 40 years of data from passive radiometers and shows a clear warming trend in the troposphere. Cherry picking a small subset (about 1/6 of the data) from the original dataset is not sound, particularly when you pick a high point as your starting point in an attempt to try to disprove an idea supported by a large amount of peer reviewed, sound research. Sounds like you are another person who doesn’t know what a logarithm is.


:BigApplause:

Or, you could have said:

I pretty sure you can't fix stupid.

:icon_wink:

[fdpaq0580]

All the scientific stuff is way above my pay grade, but it is obvious that there is a change. The bit I cannot get my head round is that it is man made.
80+ years ago when I was growing up in UK, the air quality was dire. Smog, smoke from coal fires, lead from car exhausts, it was a killer.
Now the air has never been cleaner, but the 'Greens' claim it is still our fault and conditions are getting worse! How?
That's what I find hard to even start to believe.

An article from today's BBC UK service.
The BBC are Climate change zealots.

What is climate change? A really simple guide - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24021772)

Smog, smoke was worse in most highly populated and industrialized area. Now it is cleaner. The reason it is cleaner is thanks to the efforts of the "Greens" to bring attention to the problem, source of the problem and force, through law, the polluters to clean up their act. The ones at fault are usually the ones who's battle cry is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

[Two Bills]

Smog, smoke was worse in most highly populated and industrialized area. Now it is cleaner. The reason it is cleaner is thanks to the efforts of the "Greens" to bring attention to the problem, source of the problem and force, through law, the polluters to clean up their act. The ones at fault are usually the ones who's battle cry is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

80 years ago, the only 'greens' around were brassicas, and gays were just happy people!
The UK Clean Air Act of 1956 was introduced as a response to the 1952 Great Smog.
Nothing to do with any Environmental groups.
It was a time when politicians actually worked to solve problems, and not just spend all their time raising money to get reelected.

[Wondering]

The October 2022 UAH (Univ of Alabama at Huntsville) Satellite DATA is now in and the 7-year trend is still in a slight downward trend. Even though this year (so far) is a tad warmer than last year, the global DATA trend for the last 7 years shows slight cooling. The NOAA global surface temperature DATA reflects a similar slight cooling trend. Plus, November brings early snows ... Mammoth ski season to open early with fresh snow - Los Angeles Times (https://www.latimes.com/travel/story/2022-11-02/mammoth-ski-season-open-early)
What's your point? Are you a global warming/climate change scientist? If not, is your purpose for this thread to imply that legitimate scientists' analysis and predictions are incorrect? Next time indicate reason for posting. Otherwise, your thread is useless!











is your purpose for this tread to imply that scientist are incorrect in the analysis and predictions

[Vermilion Villager]

I already provided the Roy Spencer graph source -- nothing to hide here. Besides, there is no cherry-picking. I simply plotted all January through October temperature data from 2015 to 2022. Where is the cherry picking? When the November data comes in, I will plot that data -- and then subsequently for the December data ... a very simple straight forward process. And over the last 8 years of data, it shows a 7-year slight cooling trend.
Why start at 2015? Was the data not available before this year? If it was then why didn't you post it?

[Vermilion Villager]

During the Little Ice Age there were even more sources explaining why witches caused extreme weather and fast growing glaciers -- and most sources were from government and church leaders.
Oh great.......now he's talking about witches.:ohdear:

[Maker]

Many have problems with predictions of only doom and gloom. Assuming your temperature predictions are close, maybe that will lead to a much better world. More CO2 means more plant and tree growth. Additional new warmer regions become the best farm land in the history of the earth. As the population grows, newer more moderate areas will attract people to help reduce existing city overpopulation issues. If there is more precipitation, droughts will end.

Weather cycles are thousands of years long. Perhaps millions. Both warming and cooling. The speck of time is a blip on that scale. Weather forecasting is often still a 50/50 guess even 24 hours in the future. Predicting 100 years is impossible. Especially with the "long range" (3 to 6 month) forecasts being wrong more than they are right. There are too many unpredictable and unknown external factors that cause a shift.

Not exactly. We know we are in an interglacial period that started about 12,000 years ago. The concern is that additional anthropogenic warming on top of the interglacial warming will be an issue. The time scale of concern is primarily the next 100 years or so. Estimates put the anthropogenic warming at about 1C. The concerns are that it could be an additional several degrees by the end of the century. While that may not sound like a lot but that is a global change. The regional impacts would be large and could create political upheaval due to migrations away from those regions most impacted.

[Old Bob]

Ditto -- and the best part is that CO2 helps make the earth greener and helps keep the earth comfortable for humans ... we are after all tropical life forms since we were born without fur. Man-made CO2 is helping to make our climate great again.

The planet has been going through warming and cooling cycles for millions of years, and will continue. I think it is foolish to think that man can do anything about it!

[carlsondg]

The October 2022 UAH (Univ of Alabama at Huntsville) Satellite DATA is now in and the 7-year trend is still in a slight downward trend. Even though this year (so far) is a tad warmer than last year, the global DATA trend for the last 7 years shows slight cooling. The NOAA global surface temperature DATA reflects a similar slight cooling trend. Plus, November brings early snows ... Mammoth ski season to open early with fresh snow - Los Angeles Times (https://www.latimes.com/travel/story/2022-11-02/mammoth-ski-season-open-early)

never let science get in the way of a good story

[fdpaq0580]

80 years ago, the only 'greens' around were brassicas, and gays were just happy people!
The UK Clean Air Act of 1956 was introduced as a response to the 1952 Great Smog.
Nothing to do with any Environmental groups.
It was a time when politicians actually worked to solve problems, and not just spend all their time raising money to get reelected.

So, the politicians were the "greens" that regulated the industries for the benefit of the regular folks, causing industries to institute costly practices or face massive fines? I know that industry wasn't fond of the expensive clean-up Hey, have it your way, as long as we get a cleaner and healthier environment

[jimjamuser]

Here is the non cherry picked chart.

Latest Global Temps « Roy Spencer, PhD (https://www.drroyspencer.com/latest-global-temperatures/)
It looks like that graph shows INCREASING TEMPERATURES. And I remember reading in various articles that the last 8 years are GLOBALLY, the warmest since 1880 when data began to be available. And I seem to remember that the Gulf of Mexico was at RECORD highs this summer.........we all know about the size and destruction of hurricane IAN.........which seems related to the Gulf temperatures. In fact, the TV meteorologists said that the Gulf temperatures "SUPERCHARGED" hurricane IAN. In fact, there seem to be only a few "naysayers" here locally that TRY to pump up anti-Global Warming sentiment. I wish I could figure out what is gained by an agenda of misinformation. The oil companies fought to conceal Global Warming way back in 1980. Man-caused Global Warming is pretty much settled-SCIENCE at this point.

I have a friend that lives near Naples and I right now removing wet and moldy insulation from his attic. he talks about the effect of Florida's recent HOTTER summers and increased Gulf temperatures. It would be hard to convince him that the Earth was cooling recently. I think most people believe otherwise!

[jimjamuser]

Anyone call claim what is good or not good, but the cooling trend began after 2015, which is why I plotted that data -- good or bad -- this data shows a cooling trend. The question is ... how long with this continue? Another question is ... why the cooling trend while CO2 continues its steady and steep upward slope?
Well, that is correct about the increased CO2 which is increasing the acidification of the oceans and "bleaching" / KILLING reef coral.

[jimjamuser]

I like that!

95686
Unfortunately, the "End IS already here" for many animal species that have died out (very extinct) in recent years. Also sad is the Scientific prediction that by 2090 ONLY 10% of the world's coral reefs will be ALIVE. That IS going to be a bad / sad world that our great GRANDCHILDREN and future generations will have to live in. We are already seeing mass human migration northward from South America and Africa. And on the TV yesterday and today, there are pictures of hundreds of elephant and other large African animals lying very DEAD due to drought related to recent Climate
Change. There are predictions of up to 1/3 of Africa becoming uninhabitable for humans starting in 2060.

So, it looks like that "the end is near sign" is more of a Scientific prediction than some type of JOKE. But it is easier for this generation to "joke" because they will be gone and leave ALL the FUTURE hardships to new generations. Who needs a sense of fairness? Anyway, America was founded with the idea of "conquering the environment" so our ancestors must be VERY proud because it looks like we are FINALLY succeeding!

[Driller703]

Is CO2 is heavier than air? If so, how is it ending up in the upper atmosphere.

[YeOldeCurmudgeon]

Global temperatures in past seven years hottest ever observed, new data show (https://news.yahoo.com/global-temperatures-past-seven-years-182840827.html)

The last year was the earth's sixth-warmest on record, while the past seven years were among the warmest ever recorded, according to research released Thursday by NASA and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

The NOAA analysis found that while Earth was slightly cooler than 2019 and 2020, 2021 was still among the warmest on record dating back to 1880.

Every year from 2013 to 2021 was among the ten warmest recorded years, and 2021 was the 45th consecutive year with global temperatures above the 20th century average, according to the agency. The average land and ocean surface temperature during the year was about 1.5 degrees above the 20th-century average.

So, who do you believe? Who do you trust. Just watch the Weather Channel. I don't think they are lying to us.

[dougjb]

I guess this one observation from a very limited time frame from a very limited geographic location dispels the conclusions of hundreds of climatologists with advanced degrees from some very prestigious universities.

Thats one way to dispel the truth. As for me, I don't see the earth curving from my house windows. That is the case every time I have looked out each side of my house. It has been that way for many years. Since my observations suggest there is not curvature to the earth, the earth is flat.

See, I proved it!

[jimjamuser]

Ditto -- and the best part is that CO2 helps make the earth greener and helps keep the earth comfortable for humans ... we are after all tropical life forms since we were born without fur. Man-made CO2 is helping to make our climate great again.
...........by killing reef coral.....?

[jimjamuser]

"Had little to do with facts" is exactly right -- just like today. The facts are so little that no one can identify how much "man-made" CO2 warmed the earth last year.
Maybe the dead elephants can explain how Global Warming is happening.

[Kenswing]

Maybe the dead elephants can explain how Global Warming is happening.

Maybe you aren’t aware but species have been going extinct since the beginning of time. Man hasn’t even been around for most of them.

Cloudflare CAPTCHA (https://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/dinosaurs-ancient-fossils/extinction/mass-extinction)

[Laraine]

It's been pointed out that 5 or 10 years is too short of a period to base a trend on. For that matter, 150 years is too short of a period, when talking about the earth. 150 years corresponds to how long we've been observing meteorology, and how long we've said global warming has been happening. 150 years ago also happens to correspond to the coldest period in the last 10,000 years, based upon ice cores in Greenland, peat bogs, tree rings, and other measurements. It only makes sense that the temperature has gone up in that period, but it is very difficult to say if man is causing it. In fact, temperatures about 4-5000 years ago were about 2.5 deg. C higher than our current temperatures, and temperatures about 1000 years ago (the Medieval Warm Period) were about 1 deg. C higher than now. Unlikely that industrialization was causing either of those warm periods.

[jimjamuser]

I picked the point at which slight global cooling started. This cooling is partially due to increasing incursions of polar outbreaks, accompanied by a cooling ENSO and PDO. This is why the hurricane trend has been decreasing for the past 2 years. Data also shows a weakening polar vortex, which is commonly indicative of more polar outbreaks to come -- at least in the near future.
It is better to remember that Hurricane FREQUENCY is decreasing, but Hurricane INTENSITY and human deaths and costs to society are INCREASING. According to Reuters and Bloomberg...... IAN will have done about 60 BILLION dollars worth of property damage to Florida - about 20 Billion will be uninsured. Insurance premiums all over Florida will INCREASE on top of ALREADY being 3 times higher than the national average. Many will lose coverage!

Today the warmest water in the Gulf is 84 degrees. on July 17 it was 90 degrees.

[Love2Swim]

Here is the non cherry picked chart.

Latest Global Temps « Roy Spencer, PhD (https://www.drroyspencer.com/latest-global-temperatures/)

Thank you. Clearly, as most reputable scientists have said, there is an upward trend. You'd have to be brain dead not to notice the signs of global warming: The ocean temps are getting warmer, ice sheets are shrinking, glaciers are retreating, sea level is rising, extreme weather events are increasing in frequency. This is from climate.nasa.gov - while the sun has played a role in past climate changes, not this time around. It is manmade activities that are the principal driver of the greenhouse effect, a conclusion reached by scientistic experts from around the world.

[jimjamuser]

Fortunately, humans are helping to improve earth's climate by adding more CO2 to the air. It's odd that so many believe CO2 to be a satanic gas -- and yet no one even knows how much "man-made" CO2 warmed the earth last year. We all know exactly how much CO2 increased last year, or how much gasoline prices increased last year -- but not how much "man-made" CO2 increased earth's temperature. Think about that. Why is that not known? What is the news media hiding - besides the 7-year cooling trend? The answer is available through the use of a globally recognized equation which was created by the world's greatest scientists (including Einstein's contributions). This equation is publicly accessible via a computer program created by the US Government, which accurately describes (to the best of human knowledge) how CO2 and all other greenhouses gases affect our atmosphere. For those who don't know this equation or the program that runs it ... they will be discussed Nov 17 at 1:30 PM at Laurel Manor.
That's what the OIL industry said to fool Americans about pollution and Global Warming in 1980. I guess some still believe that and that Scientific knowledge is REGRESSING.

[jimjamuser]

If you look at 5, 10 or100 year charts you are not looking at a true representation of what is taking place. Looking at 10,000, 100,000 year or greater duration charts to find out where we are in the climate cycle. Then you will see how little humans have on the changing climate.
To me, that sounds like a "DISTRACTOR" as commonly used in debates.

[jimjamuser]

Not exactly. We know we are in an interglacial period that started about 12,000 years ago. The concern is that additional anthropogenic warming on top of the interglacial warming will be an issue. The time scale of concern is primarily the next 100 years or so. Estimates put the anthropogenic warming at about 1C. The concerns are that it could be an additional several degrees by the end of the century. While that may not sound like a lot but that is a global change. The regional impacts would be large and could create political upheaval due to migrations away from those regions most impacted.
Yes, exactly!

[Taltarzac725]

To me, that sounds like a "DISTRACTOR" as commonly used in debates.

It does not address the issue. We have to live with the change caused by Global Warming now in 2022. We may not survive to 3022.

[Aces4]

To me, that sounds like a "DISTRACTOR" as commonly used in debates.


I think the whole subject is a distraction. The real elephant in the room is the threat of nuclear war and no one will care what the temperature will be when that happens. Isn’t anyone listening to the development and testing occurring in unscrupulous countries. The scariest fact is those terrorists may already be entrenched among us.

[Byte1]

Well, that is correct about the increased CO2 which is increasing the acidification of the oceans and "bleaching" / KILLING reef coral.

Yes, because "killing reef coral" is sooo important to our lifestyles....:pepper2:

[jimjamuser]

All the scientific stuff is way above my pay grade, but it is obvious that there is a change. The bit I cannot get my head round is that it is man made.
80+ years ago when I was growing up in UK, the air quality was dire. Smog, smoke from coal fires, lead from car exhausts, it was a killer.
Now the air has never been cleaner, but the 'Greens' claim it is still our fault and conditions are getting worse! How?
That's what I find hard to even start to believe.

An article from today's BBC UK service.
The BBC are Climate change zealots.

What is climate change? A really simple guide - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24021772)
There is MUCH more to man-made Global Warming observations than simply AIR QUALITY improvement in the UK and the US. For one BIG FACTOR, there are double or triple the world population from 80 years ago. That BIG of a population change IS CONSIDERED BY most CLIMATE Scientists to have INCREASED the CO2 production which has produced the RAPID warming in recent years. The UK and the US simply OUTSOURCED their pollution and CO2 production in the last 80 years of our lifetimes to China and other 3rd world countries. The pollution drifts upward where we don't see it often, but it causes the RAPID WARMING of the planet. Also, Global Warming is considered a threat to US and 1st world industrial Corporations that have LOBBYISTS like for the OIL industry whose job it is to LIE to the American People. This started about 1980 and involves BIG money.

Today the Global Temperatures have increased more in the last eight years than in any similar period since 1880. Simply, the Industrial lobbyists have more money to spend on advertisement propaganda about Global Warming than Scientists have to spend on PR FOR Global Warming.

Another BIG factor is the cutting down of OLD GROWTH forest In the Amazon Rain Forest and other old-growth areas, which is needed to absorb the EXTRA CO2 and other pollutants produced by 1st world industry and IC auto engines. Those are some FACTORS that have change in the past 80 years.

[Byte1]

Global temperatures in past seven years hottest ever observed, new data show (https://news.yahoo.com/global-temperatures-past-seven-years-182840827.html)

The last year was the earth's sixth-warmest on record, while the past seven years were among the warmest ever recorded, according to research released Thursday by NASA and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

The NOAA analysis found that while Earth was slightly cooler than 2019 and 2020, 2021 was still among the warmest on record dating back to 1880.

Every year from 2013 to 2021 was among the ten warmest recorded years, and 2021 was the 45th consecutive year with global temperatures above the 20th century average, according to the agency. The average land and ocean surface temperature during the year was about 1.5 degrees above the 20th-century average.

So, who do you believe? Who do you trust. Just watch the Weather Channel. I don't think they are lying to us.

That still does not prove that mankind had anything to do with the change. Did mankind warm the earth enough to get us past the ice age?

[Byte1]

Maybe the dead elephants can explain how Global Warming is happening.

Or......we also see dead elephants that passed during the ice age. Does that indicate that since elephants are dying that the climate is cooling?

[fdpaq0580]

Yes, because "killing reef coral" is sooo important to our lifestyles....:pepper2:

More so than you know.

[Byte1]

I think the whole subject is a distraction. The real elephant in the room is the threat of nuclear war and no one will care what the temperature will be when that happens. Isn’t anyone listening to the development and testing occurring in unscrupulous countries. The scariest fact is those terrorists may already be entrenched among us.

There won't be anymore worry about global warming because the opposite will be evident....a nuclear winter. Then we'll be wishing for some global warming.

[Love2Swim]

Yes, because "killing reef coral" is sooo important to our lifestyles....:pepper2:

Don't embarrass yourself.

[jimjamuser]

All the scientific stuff is way above my pay grade, but it is obvious that there is a change. The bit I cannot get my head round is that it is man made.
80+ years ago when I was growing up in UK, the air quality was dire. Smog, smoke from coal fires, lead from car exhausts, it was a killer.
Now the air has never been cleaner, but the 'Greens' claim it is still our fault and conditions are getting worse! How?
That's what I find hard to even start to believe.

An article from today's BBC UK service.
The BBC are Climate change zealots.

What is climate change? A really simple guide - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24021772)
Those that are happy about AIR that "has never been cleaner" need to thank the "greens" that fought the good fight to make the PUBLIC AWARE that the IC auto engine produces smog and carcinogens and lowers life expectancies. The "GREENS" stimulated public awareness to force / drive the US laws for smog control devices ending in cleaner AIR.

Most of us can thank them for our longer life expectencies.

[fdpaq0580]

That still does not prove that mankind had anything to do with the change. Did mankind warm the earth enough to get us past the ice age?

Ice age, smice age! Quit recycling old red herrings.
Human kinds influence accelerated dramatically with the start of the industrial revolution and runaway population growth. This has been stated over and over. Humans are not, by themselves, causing global warming, BUT, we are making it far worse than it would be without us. And, no, I am not advocating doing away with humanity.

[jimjamuser]

Please pseudo-scientists, return to your armchairs and let us all listen to what the overwhelming majority of scientists are telling us - there is a significant and accelerating change in the climate and it is warming.

Where is this energy being stored? It’s in the oceans as you would expect if you think about it. One of the ways we see this is through the melting ice caps both at the polar regions and various countries with significant amounts of snow and ice.

The real question is how will this impact life? It could be positive or negative - that’s probably the real question once we accept the reality of the situation. Water levels are rising - is that a big problem? I’m not saying either way.

So we need to stop turning it into a political battle and start thinking of the consequences and what if anything we need or want to do about it. Eg if polar bears become extinct as a result do we really care given it doesn’t impact our daily lives? Or if there’s more hurricanes do I really care if I live in a part of the country that is rarely impacted by them? Life is certainly going to be different in many ways that we haven’t really thought through but that we now have little control over given the time it takes for this slow moving ship to change course.
Most people care about whether the Polar Bear goes extinct. And the Climate-caused deaths of Elephants and large mammals on TV today in Africa should be hateful and frightening to ALL HUMANS. The passenger pigeons are extinct now. They once darkened the skies of early America. They could have BEEN a good source of protein today. If mammals keep going extinct ........maybe man is not far behind. Today man is capable of destroying the livable environment of the earth (nuclear war) .........mankind needs to come to its senses and co-exist with the environment rather than trying to "conquer the environment" as the early US colonists talked about. Conquering MAY backfire in the FUTURE !

[fdpaq0580]

Or......we also see dead elephants that passed during the ice age. Does that indicate that since elephants are dying that the climate is cooling?

You know better.

[fdpaq0580]

I think the whole subject is a distraction. The real elephant in the room is the threat of nuclear war and no one will care what the temperature will be when that happens. Isn’t anyone listening to the development and testing occurring in unscrupulous countries. The scariest fact is those terrorists may already be entrenched among us.

That is another issue for another thread. Go for it.

[fdpaq0580]

There is MUCH more to man-made Global Warming observations than simply AIR QUALITY improvement in the UK and the US. For one BIG FACTOR, there are double or triple the world population from 80 years ago. That BIG of a population change IS CONSIDERED BY most CLIMATE Scientists to have INCREASED the CO2 production which has produced the RAPID warming in recent years. The UK and the US simply OUTSOURCED their pollution and CO2 production in the last 80 years of our lifetimes to China and other 3rd world countries. The pollution drifts upward where we don't see it often, but it causes the RAPID WARMING of the planet. Also, Global Warming is considered a threat to US and 1st world industrial Corporations that have LOBBYISTS like for the OIL industry whose job it is to LIE to the American People. This started about 1980 and involves BIG money.

Today the Global Temperatures have increased more in the last eight years than in any similar period since 1880. Simply, the Industrial lobbyists have more money to spend on advertisement propaganda about Global Warming than Scientists have to spend on PR FOR Global Warming.

Another BIG factor is the cutting down of OLD GROWTH forest In the Amazon Rain Forest and other old-growth areas, which is needed to absorb the EXTRA CO2 and other pollutants produced by 1st world industry and IC auto engines. Those are some FACTORS that have change in the past 80 years.

Great post! Deserving of a second reading. Thanks!

[fdpaq0580]

Don't embarrass yourself.

Too late. He already did .... .

[jimjamuser]

Is CO2 is heavier than air? If so, how is it ending up in the upper atmosphere.
Looked up a Columbia Climate School quote....."It is mainly DIFFUSION that allows CO2 to integrate at altitudes higher than its molecular weight ALONE would suggest - also UPDRAFT processes." My take........The earth gets warmer and there is MORE undrafted CO2 which is acting LIKE a blanket (layman's phrase) so MORE HEAT for the earth in a cycle that may reach or HAS reached a TIPPING POINT.

[jimjamuser]

Global temperatures in past seven years hottest ever observed, new data show (https://news.yahoo.com/global-temperatures-past-seven-years-182840827.html)

The last year was the earth's sixth-warmest on record, while the past seven years were among the warmest ever recorded, according to research released Thursday by NASA and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

The NOAA analysis found that while Earth was slightly cooler than 2019 and 2020, 2021 was still among the warmest on record dating back to 1880.

Every year from 2013 to 2021 was among the ten warmest recorded years, and 2021 was the 45th consecutive year with global temperatures above the 20th century average, according to the agency. The average land and ocean surface temperature during the year was about 1.5 degrees above the 20th-century average.

So, who do you believe? Who do you trust. Just watch the Weather Channel. I don't think they are lying to us.
Great post.

[Aces4]

That is another issue for another thread. Go for it.

No thanks, I’m living my life for the moment. That’s all there is at this point. I’ll let the others chase unicorns.

[jimjamuser]

Yes, because "killing reef coral" is sooo important to our lifestyles....:pepper2:
It means a lot if you are a scuba diver that enjoys the EXCEPTIONAL BEAUTY of a coral reef. Also, coral reefs are like the foundation or building block or feedstock of ALL the fish protein swimming in all the waters of the oceans. I assume that a lot of readers like to eat fish. So, YES, it is important.

[tuccillo]

There is a lot wrong in this post but I will only comment on the bigger picture. Don’t confuse weather with climate. Climate models are not trying to make the deterministic predictions of weather models. While both use the N-S equations on a rotating sphere plus diabatic processes, the application is different. Climate models are trying to capture the longer term trends.


Many have problems with predictions of only doom and gloom. Assuming your temperature predictions are close, maybe that will lead to a much better world. More CO2 means more plant and tree growth. Additional new warmer regions become the best farm land in the history of the earth. As the population grows, newer more moderate areas will attract people to help reduce existing city overpopulation issues. If there is more precipitation, droughts will end. Virtually all predictions have a probability function.

Weather cycles are thousands of years long. Perhaps millions. Both warming and cooling. The speck of time is a blip on that scale. Weather forecasting is often still a 50/50 guess even 24 hours in the future. Predicting 100 years is impossible. Especially with the "long range" (3 to 6 month) forecasts being wrong more than they are right. There are too many unpredictable and unknown external factors that cause a shift.

[dewilson58]

There is.................

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

Thanks!!!!

I'm jus sitting back enjoying your posts.

Reminds me of the days leading up to the hurricane a few years ago.

:eclipsee_gold_cup:

[fdpaq0580]

It means a lot if you are a scuba diver that enjoys the EXCEPTIONAL BEAUTY of a coral reef. Also, coral reefs are like the foundation or building block or feedstock of ALL the fish protein swimming in all the waters of the oceans. I assume that a lot of readers like to eat fish. So, YES, it is important.

Agree! Right now corals are a little like the canary in the coal mine. The canary will die as an indication the air is poison. The coral dieoff is an indication the the oceans are not healthy for living things.

[sounding]

Most people care about whether the Polar Bear goes extinct. And the Climate-caused deaths of Elephants and large mammals on TV today in Africa should be hateful and frightening to ALL HUMANS. The passenger pigeons are extinct now. They once darkened the skies of early America. They could have BEEN a good source of protein today. If mammals keep going extinct ........maybe man is not far behind. Today man is capable of destroying the livable environment of the earth (nuclear war) .........mankind needs to come to its senses and co-exist with the environment rather than trying to "conquer the environment" as the early US colonists talked about. Conquering MAY backfire in the FUTURE !

Polar Bear fears are just a myth. Those bears are steady increasing, and for just $50,000 you can shot your own to help keep them under control ... Nunavut Territory Polar Bear Hunting - Worldwide Trophy Adventures (https://worldwidetrophyadventures.com/trips/nunavut-territory-polar-bear-hunting/)

[jimjamuser]

Agree! Right now corals are a little like the canary in the coal mine. The canary will die as an indication the air is poison. The coral dieoff is an indication the the oceans are not healthy for living things.
With snorkel or Scuba when on a LIVING Coral Reef as soon as their head goes under the water........a fantastic 3D living light show begins.........the diver is surrounded by vibrant LIVING multicolored coral and on a good visibility day, they will see about 10,000 small brightly colored fish swimming in schools right next to them. You reach out to touch one and the fish and the school move effortlessly and slowly away from that touch as if in NO way do they resent your being there. You may see 3 or 4-lb fish swimming in the coral and protected by it. You WILL see barracuda - small ones around 1 foot long about I every 10 ft. From time to time, you will see a 4 ft long barracuda and you will NEVER forget it. The 2 rows of their deadly teeth move up and down with a scissor-like action and can be VERY intimidating. Many experienced divers will leave the water more often for a large barracuda than even a shark, which are rarely seen. Also rare, for me, was a closeup encounter with a large sea turtle, which are not aggressive, but beautiful in coloration and movement when underwater. There are also sea urchins and Moray Eels that are NOT beautiful and are to be AVOIDED..
........Diving in freshwater is a completely different experience - the fish are dull gray in color and fewer in number. They rapidly swim away from you. It is boring.

Because diving on a Goral Reef is such a SPECIAL fantasy world away from the surface world.........the divers are particularly saddened as THAT wonderful world is SLOWLY dying due to various pollutants such as EXCESS CO2 produced from man's overdependence on burning fossil fuels in IC engines. As long as you see tailpipe smoke from an automobile, a factory, an OIL drilling, or a forest fire you are seeing the demise of the coral reef and all the ocean life that depends on CORAL.

[jimjamuser]

Polar Bear fears are just a myth. Those bears are steady increasing, and for just $50,000 you can shot your own to help keep them under control ... Nunavut Territory Polar Bear Hunting - Worldwide Trophy Adventures (https://worldwidetrophyadventures.com/trips/nunavut-territory-polar-bear-hunting/)
And I guess we are to assume that the melting ice in the Arctic, OIL exploration, and mining operations for lithium......will all have ZERO negative effects on Polar bear populations.............RIGHT !
And I guess that I did not REALLY see over 100 elephants DEAD from lack of water due to Climate Change in Africa.

[sounding]

With snorkel or Scuba when on a LIVING Coral Reef as soon as their head goes under the water........a fantastic 3D living light show begins.........the diver is surrounded by vibrant LIVING multicolored coral and on a good visibility day, they will see about 10,000 small brightly colored fish swimming in schools right next to them. You reach out to touch one and the fish and the school move effortlessly and slowly away from that touch as if in NO way do they resent your being there. You may see 3 or 4-lb fish swimming in the coral and protected by it. You WILL see barracuda - small ones around 1 foot long about I every 10 ft. From time to time, you will see a 4 ft long barracuda and you will NEVER forget it. The 2 rows of their deadly teeth move up and down with a scissor-like action and can be VERY intimidating. Many experienced divers will leave the water more often for a large barracuda than even a shark, which are rarely seen. Also rare, for me, was a closeup encounter with a large sea turtle, which are not aggressive, but beautiful in coloration and movement when underwater. There are also sea urchins and Moray Eels that are NOT beautiful and are to be AVOIDED..
........Diving in freshwater is a completely different experience - the fish are dull gray in color and fewer in number. They rapidly swim away from you. It is boring.

Because diving on a Goral Reef is such a SPECIAL fantasy world away from the surface world.........the divers are particularly saddened as THAT wonderful world is SLOWLY dying due to various pollutants such as EXCESS CO2 produced from man's overdependence on burning fossil fuels in IC engines. As long as you see tailpipe smoke from an automobile, a factory, an OIL drilling, or a forest fire you are seeing the demise of the coral reef and all the ocean life that depends on CORAL.

That's the typical narrative -- and now the data. Corals live in the warmest waters on earth. They look forward to a warmer earth, because when the earth was warmer and had more CO2, coral diversity was much greater. Plus, Figure 2 clearly shows Great Barrier Reef corals are at an all time high ... https://www.thegwpf.org/content/uploads/2022/08/Ridd-Record-Coral-GBR.pdf?mc_cid=4682239443&mc_eid=2757d1864c

[sounding]

And I guess we are to assume that the melting ice in the Arctic, OIL exploration, and mining operations for lithium......will all have ZERO negative effects on Polar bear populations.............RIGHT !
And I guess that I did not REALLY see over 100 elephants DEAD from lack of water due to Climate Change in Africa.

Folks actually believe its melting because of propaganda. Come to the Weather Club and see actual government data showing there is no melting problem. Also, just ask the Eskimos who are worried about making living and feeding their kids -- all because there is TOO MUCH ICE ... Cruise ship cancellations disappoint Ulukhaktok residents, says mayor | CBC News (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/cruise-ships-cancelled-ulukhaktok-1.4810562)

[fdpaq0580]

That's the typical narrative -- and now the data. Corals live in the warmest waters on earth. They look forward to a warmer earth, because when the earth was warmer and had more CO2, coral diversity was much greater. Plus, Figure 2 clearly shows Great Barrier Reef corals are at an all time high ... https://www.thegwpf.org/content/uploads/2022/08/Ridd-Record-Coral-GBR.pdf?mc_cid=4682239443&mc_eid=2757d1864c

Go to NOAA and search "what is killing the oceans coral" if you would like to learn rather than just debate with your misinformation and red herrings (polar bears? Really?)

[sounding]

Go to NOAA and search "what is killing the oceans coral" if you would like to learn rather than just debate with your misinformation and red herrings (polar bears? Really?)

All these cause bleaching: Temperatures (too high and too low), Sunlight (too much and too little), salinity (too much and too little), pH (too high and too low), and others like too much fresh water, silt, and other chemicals. Bleaching is a temporary absence of algae which are ejected by the corals depending on water conditions -- and after which they wait for other algae to float by which better accommodate current conditions. If they can't find new algae after a length of time (depending on conditions) then the corals die -- adding to the already growing bedrock of reefs -- until new corals start growing again after conditions and algae availability changes. This is their life cycle -- it is normal -- and warmer waters and more CO2 are both beneficial to coral growth -- it is in the historic fossil record.

[fdpaq0580]

Folks actually believe its melting because of propaganda. Come to the Weather Club and see actual government data showing there is no melting problem. Also, just ask the Eskimos who are worried about making living and feeding their kids -- all because there is TOO MUCH ICE ... Cruise ship cancellations disappoint Ulukhaktok residents, says mayor | CBC News (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/cruise-ships-cancelled-ulukhaktok-1.4810562)

Better yet, go to the Arctic and Antarctic and see it for yourself instead of listening to some "guru" pandering to your belief in global conspiracy theories. Some of us have actually been places and have seen the damage to the melting glaciers, the damaged and dieing coral reefs, air so foul you can hardly breath.
Deny it all you want. Cling to whatever misinformation or manipulated data you wish. Sooner or later all the legitimate data will make anthropogenic climate change undeniable to any but the most fervent conspiracy theorists.

[sounding]

Better yet, go to the Arctic and Antarctic and see it for yourself instead of listening to some "guru" pandering to your belief in global conspiracy theories. Some of us have actually been places and have seen the damage to the melting glaciers, the damaged and dieing coral reefs, air so foul you can hardly breath.
Deny it all you want. Cling to whatever misinformation or manipulated data you wish. Sooner or later all the legitimate data will make anthropogenic climate change undeniable to any but the most fervent conspiracy theorists.

Why are polar bears increasing and why do they allow shooting them?

[fdpaq0580]

Polar Bear fears are just a myth. Those bears are steady increasing, and for just $50,000 you can shot your own to help keep them under control ... Nunavut Territory Polar Bear Hunting - Worldwide Trophy Adventures (https://worldwidetrophyadventures.com/trips/nunavut-territory-polar-bear-hunting/)

Great source. A for profit trophy hunting outfit trying to make a buck selling you the chance to kill a bear.

[sounding]

Great source. A for profit trophy hunting outfit trying to make a buck selling you the chance to kill a bear.

Why are the bears increasing and why do they allow hunting?

[lindaelane]

I agree that seven years is not a trend. I also believe one hurricane is not a trend (Ian is definitely climate change, say some). There are fewer hurricanes in the past 30 years, though some recently have held more water because the ocean is a little warmer. There is climate change (always), some is man made, and politicians choose whichever of the 33 common models looks the scariest for now in order to get people's votes and make us miserable (including some literal freezing and starvation coming soon in other countries) with attempting to stop fossil fuels entirely and as soon as possible. China is increasing coal and the West unable to offset them to any significant degree. We should do what we can without actions that will cause great harm (unable to heat houses, banning nitrogen fertilizer without which there will be some stavation, etc.)

[Bay Kid]

Let's all fly to a far away country to discuss how bad climate change is.

[Keefelane66]

Folks actually believe its melting because of propaganda. Come to the Weather Club and see actual government data showing there is no melting problem. Also, just ask the Eskimos who are worried about making living and feeding their kids -- all because there is TOO MUCH ICE ... Cruise ship cancellations disappoint Ulukhaktok residents, says mayor | CBC News (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/cruise-ships-cancelled-ulukhaktok-1.4810562)
Your CBS NEWS article is from “ CBC News · Posted: Sep 05, 2018 4:00 AM CT | Last Updated: September 5, 2018”

[Bill14564]

Folks actually believe its melting because of propaganda. Come to the Weather Club and see actual government data showing there is no melting problem. Also, just ask the Eskimos who are worried about making living and feeding their kids -- all because there is TOO MUCH ICE ... Cruise ship cancellations disappoint Ulukhaktok residents, says mayor | CBC News (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/cruise-ships-cancelled-ulukhaktok-1.4810562)

Your CBS NEWS article is from “ CBC News · Posted: Sep 05, 2018 4:00 AM CT | Last Updated: September 5, 2018”

Funny! Who would have thought there might be icy conditions in areas above the arctic circle?

The fact that such a cruise would even be possible, that those areas might be free from ice long enough for the cruise, might be considered evidence in support of warming.

[sounding]

Your CBS NEWS article is from “ CBC News · Posted: Sep 05, 2018 4:00 AM CT | Last Updated: September 5, 2018”

And why did the ice come back just 2 years after the so-called hottest July ever in 2016? Andy why are the Polar Bears increasing? And why did Al Gore's 2009 forecast for an ice-free North Pole by 2014 fail? And why is there more Arctic sea-ice now than when Al Gore made that fear-mongering forecast?

[airstreamingypsy]

Oh good, another climate denier thread. Me, I prefer dog poop threads.

[Bill14564]

Polar Bear fears are just a myth. Those bears are steady increasing, and for just $50,000 you can shot your own to help keep them under control ... Nunavut Territory Polar Bear Hunting - Worldwide Trophy Adventures (https://worldwidetrophyadventures.com/trips/nunavut-territory-polar-bear-hunting/)

Why are the bears increasing and why do they allow hunting?

You already provided the answer to the hunting: $50,000.

As for the number increasing, don't know if that's even true and don't know what it has to do with warming. It's not difficult to imagine that the loss of normal habitat for the bears has forced them into new patterns and new areas that has led to a population increase. *IF* that is even the case.

[PJackpot]

Surely you've heard the phrase: "The Emperor has no clothes"?

You're embarrassing yourself.

Instead of worrying about meaningless logarithms, look up the word "trend" in the dictionary and learn what it means. You're surely not the arbiter of how long something must exist before it qualifies as a "trend".

I think the phrase for Brian is more like "pompous ass".

[sounding]

Funny! Who would have thought there might be icy conditions in areas above the arctic circle?

The fact that such a cruise would even be possible, that those areas might be free from ice long enough for the cruise, might be considered evidence in support of warming.

There is global warming -- we are still thawing out from the Little Ice Age.

[Bill14564]

There is global warming -- we are still thawing out from the Little Ice Age.

But didn't you say we were in a seven year cooling trend and sea ice was increasing?

Let me try to put all this together:

The cruise was canceled because of the excess ice during a warming period while we are in a cooling trend where we are thawing out and sea ice is increasing.

[sounding]

But didn't you say we were in a seven year cooling trend and sea ice was increasing?

Let me try to put all this together:

The cruise was canceled because of the excess ice during a warming period while we are in a cooling trend where we are thawing out and sea ice is increasing.

Correct. The climate is composed of a complex series of warming and cooling cycles of varying amplitudes and frequencies. And, we are currently in a cooling Feynman cycle which is a long-term sunspot cycle. And, we are currently in a warming Eddy cycle which is a longer-term internal solar cycle. And, we are currently in a cooling Milankovitch cycle which is a very long term orbital forcing cycle. There are also others affecting us -- all of which are periodically reviewed in the weather club. All these cycles are easily found via many peer-reviewed studies. One more thing, CO2 is plant food and has never been proven to control any climate cycles.

[midiwiz]

The October 2022 UAH (Univ of Alabama at Huntsville) Satellite DATA is now in and the 7-year trend is still in a slight downward trend. Even though this year (so far) is a tad warmer than last year, the global DATA trend for the last 7 years shows slight cooling. The NOAA global surface temperature DATA reflects a similar slight cooling trend. Plus, November brings early snows ... Mammoth ski season to open early with fresh snow - Los Angeles Times (https://www.latimes.com/travel/story/2022-11-02/mammoth-ski-season-open-early)

Let me know when there is valid data to cast judgement on. 7 years is a nothing considering the age of this planet. every year is different, how can anyone say Ian is a 500 yr storm? wheres the data for the last 1500 years to prove it?

[Vermilion Villager]

It's amazing this thread has been allowed to continue yet a great conversation on Social Security was shut down by the moderator after 20 posts. If this isn't political then I don't know what is. I'd like the moderator to please explain.........

[fdpaq0580]

You already provided the answer to the hunting: $50,000.

As for the number increasing, don't know if that's even true and don't know what it has to do with warming. It's not difficult to imagine that the loss of normal habitat for the bears has forced them into new patterns and new areas that has led to a population increase. *IF* that is even the case.

Bear numbers world wide are fairly stable ... at the moment, it seems. But the bears habitat lose has made their hunting of their normal prey far more difficult. If they can't hunt their prey then, ? Bears can't order from "door dash".
As to the numbers. Years ago polar bears were put on the endangered species list, and their numbers came back. Now, a native group in northern Canada is willing to take trophy hunters out on native land (for $50,000) to kill a polar bear.
All in all, polar bear numbers are a result of being given protected status, NOT because the polar ice is not melting.

[sounding]

Let me know when there is valid data to cast judgement on. 7 years is a nothing considering the age of this planet. every year is different, how can anyone say Ian is a 500 yr storm? wheres the data for the last 1500 years to prove it?

That's a deal. I'll be right here to report on the 8-year trend -- and so on. It's just data -- no judgements needed. Just one question though ... why is CO2 underperforming and allowing cooling to happen? Are we not making enough CO2? CO2 emissions are steadily increasing and yet we're not warming -- this is very disappointing.

[fdpaq0580]

It's amazing this thread has been allowed to continue yet a great conversation on Social Security was shut down by the moderator after 20 posts. If this isn't political then I don't know what is. I'd like the moderator to please explain.........

The moderators don't have to explain. Their board, they decide who gets to play. I got dinged one morning for suggestin another poster could use another cup of coffee to wake them up. A joke the moderator thought was insulting. I didn't get it, but the moderators don't need to explain to us.

[Bill14564]

That's a deal. I'll be right here to report on the 8-year trend -- and so on. It's just data -- no judgements needed. Just one question though ... why is CO2 underperforming and allowing cooling to happen? Are we not making enough CO2? CO2 emissions are steadily increasing and yet we're not warming -- this is very disappointing.

Of course the 10 year, 20 year, 150 year, and 4 year trends all show warming. And from the look of the trendline, I wouldn't have too much confidence in that eight year trend.

[sounding]

The moderators don't have to explain. Their board, they decide who gets to play. I got dinged one morning for suggestin another poster could use another cup of coffee to wake them up. A joke the moderator thought was insulting. I didn't get it, but the moderators don't need to explain to us.

Whoa ... since when is temperature data and plant food political? Many want it to be political, but that's dangerous. Feynman saw it happening.

[sounding]

Of course the 10 year, 20 year, 150 year, and 4 year trends all show warming. And from the look of the trendline, I wouldn't have too much confidence in that eight year trend.

And why is CO2 underperforming?

[fdpaq0580]

Whoa ... since when is temperature data and plant food political? Many want it to be political, but that's dangerous. Feynman saw it happening.

Whoa, indeed! I never said it was. Were you attemting to respond to someone else?

[Bill14564]

And why is CO2 underperforming?

Is it? Is the climate understood so well that we can look at one aspect of it and say it is underperforming?

[HORNET]

Politicians using Global Warning for monetary gains

[fdpaq0580]

Politicians using Global Warning for monetary gains

Industrialists and foreign governments denying Global Warming for "monetary gains"?

Choose your conspiracy and get in the game.

[sounding]

Is it? Is the climate understood so well that we can look at one aspect of it and say it is underperforming?

But the SCIENCE says CO2 is the control knob ... Just a moment... (https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.1190653) Is it also controlling global cooling?

[Bill14564]

But the SCIENCE says CO2 is the control knob ... Just a moment... (https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.1190653) Is it also controlling global cooling?

Yes, and?

[jimjamuser]

That's the typical narrative -- and now the data. Corals live in the warmest waters on earth. They look forward to a warmer earth, because when the earth was warmer and had more CO2, coral diversity was much greater. Plus, Figure 2 clearly shows Great Barrier Reef corals are at an all time high ... https://www.thegwpf.org/content/uploads/2022/08/Ridd-Record-Coral-GBR.pdf?mc_cid=4682239443&mc_eid=2757d1864c
I read that link. It is written by ONE Australian Scientist that got FIRED in 2018 and it looks like he is trying to discredit the Australian Institute of Marine Science by saying the opposite of what they (the NIMS) say, which is like all of the world's scientists say........ coral in all the reefs (including the great barrier reef) are dying due to acidification due to EXCESS CO2 in the ocean water.

Incidentally, EXCESS CO2 and acidification is also a factor that will hurt Polar Bear populations in the FUTURE. So EXCESS CO2 is NOT just a problem in the WARM parts of the ocean - it is all parts of all oceans. Recent INCREASES in Polar Bear populations are DUE TO HUNTING REGULATIONS. In the FUTURE their environment will be threatened by Global Warming and they will either adapt or DIE OUT. Just like the more than 100 elephants that could NOT adapt and DIED in Africa recently. Environmental decay is happening all over the earth, in the oceans and in the atmosphere....... which leads to recent increased species EXTINCTION. Humans seem to have problems living in HARMONY with each other and with the other creatures of the earth. It seems to be very near-sighted of them.

[jimjamuser]

Why are polar bears increasing and why do they allow shooting them?
They are increasing ONLY RECENTLY because of increased hunting regulations and increased game management and conservation techniques. I imagine that some hunting is allowed so that money charged for the hunting permits can be used to preserve areas for the Polar Bears to OFFSET their LOSS of habitat due to Global Warming. Humans are TRYING to slow down the EXTINCTION of beautiful animal species brought about by Global Warming. But, it is like "spitting into the wind" as long as the earth is being ripped apart by EXCESS CO2 produced by IC engines and Industrial plants using coal in China and other countries (even the US).

[sounding]

I read that link. It is written by ONE Australian Scientist that got FIRED in 2018 and it looks like he is trying to discredit the Australian Institute of Marine Science by saying the opposite of what they (the NIMS) say, which is like all of the world's scientists say........ coral in all the reefs (including the great barrier reef) are dying due to acidification due to EXCESS CO2 in the ocean water.

Incidentally, EXCESS CO2 and acidification is also a factor that will hurt Polar Bear populations in the FUTURE. So EXCESS CO2 is NOT just a problem in the WARM parts of the ocean - it is all parts of all oceans. Recent INCREASES in Polar Bear populations are DUE TO HUNTING REGULATIONS. In the FUTURE their environment will be threatened by Global Warming and they will either adapt or DIE OUT. Just like the more than 100 elephants that could NOT adapt and DIED in Africa recently. Environmental decay is happening all over the earth, in the oceans and in the atmosphere....... which leads to recent increased species EXTINCTION. Humans seem to have problems living in HARMONY with each other and with the other creatures of the earth. It seems to be very near-sighted of them.

Many years ago CO2 levels were 15 to 17 times greater than today and live thrived. More is better -- the historic record clearly shows this. When you study plant leaves, you'll see that today's plants have more Stoma in order to eat food. They need more Stoma because there is less CO2 in the air. Years ago, when CO2 levels were much higher, the leaves had less Stoma because the air was richer in CO2. This is just one of many examples of why more CO2 is better. Here are others ... https://co2coalition.org/facts/water-vapor-is-the-primary-greenhouse-gas-2/

[jimjamuser]

I agree that seven years is not a trend. I also believe one hurricane is not a trend (Ian is definitely climate change, say some). There are fewer hurricanes in the past 30 years, though some recently have held more water because the ocean is a little warmer. There is climate change (always), some is man made, and politicians choose whichever of the 33 common models looks the scariest for now in order to get people's votes and make us miserable (including some literal freezing and starvation coming soon in other countries) with attempting to stop fossil fuels entirely and as soon as possible. China is increasing coal and the West unable to offset them to any significant degree. We should do what we can without actions that will cause great harm (unable to heat houses, banning nitrogen fertilizer without which there will be some stavation, etc.)
This post makes some sense and details some problems and a need to go slowly to avoid further problems. But, like a lot of statements about problems about Global Warming, it fails to mention that which is probably the biggest factor in Global Warming..........the fact that the world population has grown from 1 Billion in 1880 to 8 Billion today!
.........Obviously, with a population like that, China and others are going to RESORT to the EXCESSIVE use of coal and other fossil fuels. So, then the CO2 becomes EXCESSIVE and the earth begins to be trashed. No one can legitimately say that Global Warming is NOT caused by MAN. If human population were NOT excessive, then CO2 would NOT be excessive and Global Warming would NOT be a problem......... we would NOT even need to discuss it.
.......The 3rd World blames the 1st World for Climate Change problems.......and they are right.......yet they also have overpopulation problems. India lies somewhere between a 1st and 3rd world nation. They are overpopulated. What are 1st world countries that are NOT overpopulated? Maybe Canada, Australia, and New Zealand?????

It seems to me like ALL these FACTORS are interrelated.

[jimjamuser]

It's amazing this thread has been allowed to continue yet a great conversation on Social Security was shut down by the moderator after 20 posts. If this isn't political then I don't know what is. I'd like the moderator to please explain.........
Sorry, I don't see ANYTHING political about man-made Climate Change, which can't possibly be blamed on one party or another - it is a worldwide phenomenon (not just the US) and started about 1880 with the Industrial Revolution leading to more worldwide population and therefore more (and excessive) CO2 production.

[jimjamuser]

Whoa ... since when is temperature data and plant food political? Many want it to be political, but that's dangerous. Feynman saw it happening.
I can agree with that post. I would even extend the idea to education.

[jimjamuser]

Industrialists and foreign governments denying Global Warming for "monetary gains"?

Choose your conspiracy and get in the game.
Agreed. And industrialists that are "wedded" to fossil fuels are denying Global Warming. While some industrialists are making solar panels (hopefully more in the US and less in China). Some are making E-cars and E-bikes. Some are making home insulation and smart-home equipment. Even making more and better sailboats would be better than power boats.
.....Even living in the middle of Florida is better for the environment and people that living right on the coast.

[fdpaq0580]

This post makes some sense and details some problems and a need to go slowly to avoid further problems. But, like a lot of statements about problems about Global Warming, it fails to mention that which is probably the biggest factor in Global Warming..........the fact that the world population has grown from 1 Billion in 1880 to 8 Billion today!
.........Obviously, with a population like that, China and others are going to RESORT to the EXCESSIVE use of coal and other fossil fuels. So, then the CO2 becomes EXCESSIVE and the earth begins to be trashed. No one can legitimately say that Global Warming is NOT caused by MAN. If human population were NOT excessive, then CO2 would NOT be excessive and Global Warming would NOT be a problem......... we would NOT even need to discuss it.
.......The 3rd World blames the 1st World for Climate Change problems.......and they are right.......yet they also have overpopulation problems. India lies somewhere between a 1st and 3rd world nation. They are overpopulated. What are 1st world countries that are NOT overpopulated? Maybe Canada, Australia, and New Zealand?????

It seems to me like ALL these FACTORS are interrelated.

It is not just population, but our cleverness at creating industries that destroy and poison our habitat. Old growth forest stripped and burned to make way for factories, freeways and plantations. The plantations fool the uneducated. Swap one tree for another, what's the problem? Old growth/rainforests were very effective converting CO2 into oxygen. The plantations (like coffee and other crops) that replaced them are seldom 10% as effective. 3rd world countries destroy habitat for poor farms, causing erosion allowing fertilizers and poisons and all sorts of pollutants into the rivers and seas.
Clever monkeys, we are. Too clever for our own good? We will have to wait and see. The smart ones are trying to warn the others and developing plans to help correct the damage already done. But some can't come to grips with it. Like the first breeze before the storm, there is a faint smell. The smell of seaweed cooking in the sun, perhaps? Earth is warming, and the cycle isn't "normal".

"They paved Paradise and put up a parking lot."
J. Mitchell

[Byte1]

I wonder how much underwater volcanic eruptions have to do with polar ice melting. I know that any articles that do not conform to the idea of man's contribution to polar ice melting will be disputed and declared invalid, but just the same..........

West Antarctic Glacial Melting From Deep Earth Geological Heat Flow Not Global Warming - Climate Change Dispatch (https://climatechangedispatch.com/west-antarctic-glacial-melting-from-deep-earth-geological-heat-flow-not-global-warming/)

Other graphs that would make a good comparison to climate changes in temps.:

[sounding]

I wonder how much underwater volcanic eruptions have to do with polar ice melting. I know that any articles that do not conform to the idea of man's contribution to polar ice melting will be disputed and declared invalid, but just the same..........

West Antarctic Glacial Melting From Deep Earth Geological Heat Flow Not Global Warming - Climate Change Dispatch (https://climatechangedispatch.com/west-antarctic-glacial-melting-from-deep-earth-geological-heat-flow-not-global-warming/)

Other graphs that would make a good comparison to climate changes in temps.:

Excellent information. Here is more up North (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_a0exADJtk) and here is more down South (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raR5YgFcIQQ).

[Davonu]

…Some are making E-cars and E-bikes...
And we all know the E for these vehicles just appears out of thin air.

[jimjamuser]

Excellent information. Here is more up North (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_a0exADJtk) and here is more down South (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raR5YgFcIQQ).
NASA can set this subject straight. Google NASA.....Global Climate change......And I QUOTE...."The HEAT welling up from the Earth's interior beneath ice sheets has NOTHING to do with the relatively rapid change in Climate over RECENT DECADES driven mainly by HUMAN EMISSIONS of greenhouse gases that warm the atmosphere."

" Heat sources from the deep earth can remain STEADY for 100 MILLION years. Human-driven Climate Change is occurring in mere decades or centuries."

[jimjamuser]

And we all know the E for these vehicles just appears out of thin air.
The source of the electricity is a LARGE centrally located electric generating plant that may be getting its energy from, solar, wind, or waterfalls which are VERY CLEAN sources. The least clean source would be natural gas, which is a fossil fuel, but burns much cleaner than gasoline or diesel. And the generating plant can have SCRUBBERS much bigger and more efficient than the exhaust of thousands of individual moving cars and trucks.

[Byte1]

NASA can set this subject straight. Google NASA.....Global Climate change......And I QUOTE...."The HEAT welling up from the Earth's interior beneath ice sheets has NOTHING to do with the relatively rapid change in Climate over RECENT DECADES driven mainly by HUMAN EMISSIONS of greenhouse gases that warm the atmosphere."

" Heat sources from the deep earth can remain STEADY for 100 MILLION years. Human-driven Climate Change is occurring in mere decades or centuries."

Are you speaking of the same NASA that has trouble launching one space craft, while private industry launches several successful launches in the same time period? :D

[sounding]

NASA can set this subject straight. Google NASA.....Global Climate change......And I QUOTE...."The HEAT welling up from the Earth's interior beneath ice sheets has NOTHING to do with the relatively rapid change in Climate over RECENT DECADES driven mainly by HUMAN EMISSIONS of greenhouse gases that warm the atmosphere."

" Heat sources from the deep earth can remain STEADY for 100 MILLION years. Human-driven Climate Change is occurring in mere decades or centuries."

NASA? NASA is at the core of climate fraud ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_Rc301T-hY

[jimjamuser]

Are you speaking of the same NASA that has trouble launching one space craft, while private industry launches several successful launches in the same time period? :D
Well actually, I am speaking about the PROFESSIONAL and EXPERT Scientists with lifetimes of experience DEVOTED to UNDERSTANDING COMPLETELY the science of Climate Change. And I am thinking about how large and tall they TOWER intellectually over MERE local Village Climate-Deniers who study Climate by looking out their windows and saying, "I think the air LOOKS clean and I don't want to change my perfect life in any way and trade my old, smelly, polluting, gas golf cart for a modern electric one". They say, "CHANGE is a DIRTY WORD, I'll have none of that nonsense". Change frightens or bothers various people to a greater or lesser degree. They look to fake experts and false information (to be easily found on the internet) for JUSTIFICATION to be able to rationalize SCIENCE AWAY. Like, "Science is bad when it disagrees with my frozen-in-time ideas brought to me by LOUD lobbyists with unlimited budgets"!

[sounding]

Well actually, I am speaking about the PROFESSIONAL and EXPERT Scientists with lifetimes of experience DEVOTED to UNDERSTANDING COMPLETELY the science of Climate Change. And I am thinking about how large and tall they TOWER intellectually over MERE local Village Climate-Deniers who study Climate by looking out their windows and saying, "I think the air LOOKS clean and I don't want to change my perfect life in any way and trade my old, smelly, polluting, gas golf cart for a modern electric one". They say, "CHANGE is a DIRTY WORD, I'll have none of that nonsense". Change frightens or bothers various people to a greater or lesser degree. They look to fake experts and false information (to be easily found on the internet) for JUSTIFICATION to be able to rationalize SCIENCE AWAY. Like, "Science is bad when it disagrees with my frozen-in-time ideas brought to me by LOUD lobbyists with unlimited budgets"!

The Nobel Prize winner, Richard Feynman, said "Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." Name one "expert" who made a "climate change" prediction that verified.

[jimjamuser]

The Nobel Prize winner, Richard Feynman, said "Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." Name one "expert" who made a "climate change" prediction that verified.
Well, this expert was ONCE shot down by the OIL lobby and their BIG money in about 1980. but now his PREDICTIONS have come TRUE ..........you good friend and mine, please welcome the legendary ......Al Gore.
......And on the prior page #9, I quoted the official NASA statements of ALL their Scientists that TOWER above all deniers of Climate Change..... when NASA states that Climate Change IS CAUSED by MAN-MADE pollution that began with the Industrial Revolution and is slowly KILLING the earth's atmosphere and oceans.

Even a child like Greta Thunberg KNOWS that and decries what the world's current generation of OLD LEADERS is doing to KILL her FUTURE !!!!!!

Wake up WORLD ...........the reef Coral is dying......species are going extinct RAPIDLY........the world's upper atmosphere is polluted with methane, CO2, and other pollutants and the earth's surface temperature is rising rapidly and MAY be past dangerous TIPPING POINTS .......from which HUMAN migration and wars will develop and then there is NO turning back the environmental CLOCK.

[Byte1]

Well, this expert was ONCE shot down by the OIL lobby and their BIG money in about 1980. but now his PREDICTIONS have come TRUE ..........you good friend and mine, please welcome the legendary ......Al Gore.
......And on the prior page #9, I quoted the official NASA statements of ALL their Scientists that TOWER above all deniers of Climate Change..... when NASA states that Climate Change IS CAUSED by MAN-MADE pollution that began with the Industrial Revolution and is slowly KILLING the earth's atmosphere and oceans.

Even a child like Greta Thunberg KNOWS that and decries what the world's current generation of OLD LEADERS is doing to KILL her FUTURE !!!!!!

Wake up WORLD ...........the reef Coral is dying......species are going extinct RAPIDLY........the world's upper atmosphere is polluted with methane, CO2, and other pollutants and the earth's surface temperature is rising rapidly and MAY be past dangerous TIPPING POINTS .......from which HUMAN migration and wars will develop and then there is NO turning back the environmental CLOCK.

AL Gore? He's a drunken sod that makes his money off of guppies by his grifting. Some folks would rather rely on others to shape their opinions because they have no common sense to make their own decisions based on common sense and real facts.

[fdpaq0580]

Well, this expert was ONCE shot down by the OIL lobby and their BIG money in about 1980. but now his PREDICTIONS have come TRUE ..........you good friend and mine, please welcome the legendary ......Al Gore.
......And on the prior page #9, I quoted the official NASA statements of ALL their Scientists that TOWER above all deniers of Climate Change..... when NASA states that Climate Change IS CAUSED by MAN-MADE pollution that began with the Industrial Revolution and is slowly KILLING the earth's atmosphere and oceans.

Even a child like Greta Thunberg KNOWS that and decries what the world's current generation of OLD LEADERS is doing to KILL her FUTURE !!!!!!

Wake up WORLD ...........the reef Coral is dying......species are going extinct RAPIDLY........the world's upper atmosphere is polluted with methane, CO2, and other pollutants and the earth's surface temperature is rising rapidly and MAY be past dangerous TIPPING POINTS .......from which HUMAN migration and wars will develop and then there is NO turning back the environmental CLOCK.

"Name one blah blah". "Underwater volcanos". "NASA is the core of fraud". In my opinion, these are the words and thoughts of those who cannot or will not face up to reality because of fear of "loosing face" among their fellows. They will deny the reality until they have to tread water (poetic license), and then they will complain that "nobody ever told us". They try to "baffle with BS", the same BS that seems to dazzle them. They will denegrate, ridicule and defame well known and notable authorities in science, while clinging to and parroting the false wisdom of their chosen gurus. Attempts to discuss or enlighten are futile because they are truly "the blind who WILL NOT see".
Keep trying. Keep teaching. Some will want the truth and they will listen and learn. But, like the high school smart a$$'s that think they are "cool", some will just mess with you.

[jimjamuser]

"Name one blah blah". "Underwater volcanos". "NASA is the core of fraud". In my opinion, these are the words and thoughts of those who cannot or will not face up to reality because of fear of "loosing face" among their fellows. They will deny the reality until they have to tread water (poetic license), and then they will complain that "nobody ever told us". They try to "baffle with BS", the same BS that seems to dazzle them. They will denegrate, ridicule and defame well known and notable authorities in science, while clinging to and parroting the false wisdom of their chosen gurus. Attempts to discuss or enlighten are futile because they are truly "the blind who WILL NOT see".
Keep trying. Keep teaching. Some will want the truth and they will listen and learn. But, like the high school smart a$$'s that think they are "cool", some will just mess with you.
Thanks, your post was well said and thoughtful. There is a lot of disinformation flying around here. Imagine how frustrated Greta Thunberg must be.......at her age up against a whole world of rich Climate deniers with an army of lobbyists behind them. Young ones like her have to fight the good fight and remember that they have ANALYSED the climate situation CORRECTLY and NOT get sidetracked by the NAYSAYERS.

I presented 2 short QUOTES from NASA Scientists that summarized the whole Climate situation and put away the lie or confusion about BOTH the underwater HEAT and the IMPOTENCE and meaninglessness of the argument involving
any 100 MILLION year factor. NASA Scientists have made the "drop-the-mike" argument about Climate Change. But, I feel certain that many would -be-local-scientists will reach out and pick up that mike.

[Red Rose]

Mother Nature is in charge. I'm glad it shows a cooling trend.

[sounding]

Well, this expert was ONCE shot down by the OIL lobby and their BIG money in about 1980. but now his PREDICTIONS have come TRUE ..........you good friend and mine, please welcome the legendary ......Al Gore.
......And on the prior page #9, I quoted the official NASA statements of ALL their Scientists that TOWER above all deniers of Climate Change..... when NASA states that Climate Change IS CAUSED by MAN-MADE pollution that began with the Industrial Revolution and is slowly KILLING the earth's atmosphere and oceans.

Even a child like Greta Thunberg KNOWS that and decries what the world's current generation of OLD LEADERS is doing to KILL her FUTURE !!!!!!

Wake up WORLD ...........the reef Coral is dying......species are going extinct RAPIDLY........the world's upper atmosphere is polluted with methane, CO2, and other pollutants and the earth's surface temperature is rising rapidly and MAY be past dangerous TIPPING POINTS .......from which HUMAN migration and wars will develop and then there is NO turning back the environmental CLOCK.

Please quote the Al Gore climate change prediction that you refer too.

[fdpaq0580]

Mother Nature is in charge. I'm glad it shows a cooling trend.

Like your sarcasm. Very funny.

[fdpaq0580]

Please quote the Al Gore climate change prediction that you refer too.

Why bother? You don't really care. I think you just like messing with people. If you want an Al Gore quote, go find one you like so you can make fun of it.
Pleasant dreams, my friend. 😴 🌎

[sounding]

Why bother? You don't really care. I think you just like messing with people. If you want an Al Gore quote, go find one you like so you can make fun of it.
Pleasant dreams, my friend. 😴 🌎

Why claim that experts know how to forecast climate change if there are no verifiable examples? Al Gore got the Nobel Peace Prize for his forecasts. Which one verified -- if any?

[MorTech]

Don't worry! The "Climate Change" terrorist are going to starve you all to death very soon :)

[fdpaq0580]

Don't worry! The "Climate Change" terrorist are going to starve you all to death very soon :)

Terrorist? Really? Resorting to insult because you don't like hearing a different point of view? A verbal tarring and feathering of those who seek to help is certainly dark ages mentality, imho. If we saw you were about to step on a snake and we warned you of the situation, would we be Snake Terrorists in your eyes? Sounds like it!

[sounding]

Terrorist? Really? Resorting to insult because you don't like hearing a different point of view? A verbal tarring and feathering of those who seek to help is certainly dark ages mentality, imho. If we saw you were about to step on a snake and we warned you of the situation, would we be Snake Terrorists in your eyes? Sounds like it!

Those who visit Sri Lanka can confirm what happens when a country is forced to go green.

[fdpaq0580]

Why claim that experts know how to forecast climate change if there are no verifiable examples? Al Gore got the Nobel Peace Prize for his forecasts. Which one verified -- if any?

You can Google it as easy as I can. Maybe even easier?

[metalic]

No climate change here, then

[Keefelane66]

Those who visit Sri Lanka can confirm what happens when a country is forced to go green.
That's what happens when a ruling majority invokes their religion, for reasons of religion and culture, the Buddhists and Hindus, who venerate cow, are opposed to beef and thus are against cow slaughter.

[fdpaq0580]

Those who visit Sri Lanka can confirm what happens when a country is forced to go green.

And those who visit Alaska, Africa, Australia and The Great Barrier Reef, and many other places around the world can confirm the damage already done by changing nothing. We need to change our ways or things will get worse. It is past time to become part of the solution, rather than part of the problem.

[Bill14564]

Those who visit Sri Lanka can confirm what happens when a country is forced to go green.

That's what happens when a ruling majority invokes their religion, for reasons of religion and culture, the Buddhists and Hindus, who venerate cow, are opposed to beef and thus are against cow slaughter.

I'm amazed that all the extra, beneficial CO2 in the air didn't cause the crops to grow even better!

Gotta wonder about some of the numbers. Crops decreased 20% when farmers let 33% of their land fallow. Some might see that as in increase per acre farmed. (must be due to the CO2)

[sounding]

You can Google it as easy as I can. Maybe even easier?

I'm not the one claiming that experts can make accurate climate change forecasts. I'm just asking for examples. Problem is they don't exist -- false claims -- just like man-made climate change.

[jimjamuser]

Why claim that experts know how to forecast climate change if there are no verifiable examples? Al Gore got the Nobel Peace Prize for his forecasts. Which one verified -- if any?
Al Gore got the Nobel Peace Prize because the whole world made that decision. The whole world was able to make that CORRECT decision because the WORLD was NON-BIASED. However, "back in the USA" the OIL COMPANIES and their lobbyists used their MONEY to control the NARRATIVE and push BIAS against Al Gore. That BIAS continues today in the form of CLIMATE DENIERS. But, to the DENIERS DISMAY, right and Science, over time, wins out over ignorance and BIAS.

[fdpaq0580]

I'm not the one claiming that experts can make accurate climate change forecasts. I'm just asking for examples. Problem is they don't exist -- false claims -- just like man-made climate change.

The experts all around the world have already spoken but you deny their expertise and label truth as fraud because their finding don't go along with your preferred rhetoric. I want perfect teeth, but when my dentist finds a cavity I don't label him a fraud because I don't want to accept reality.

[sounding]

And those who visit Alaska, Africa, Australia and The Great Barrier Reef, and many other places around the world can confirm the damage already done by changing nothing. We need to change our ways or things will get worse. It is past time to become part of the solution, rather than part of the problem.

As usual, more narrative, with no evidence to show CO2 caused anything, except to make earth greener. Where's the beef?

[sounding]

No climate change here, then

That's what happens in the "desert" south-west when more and more people (espeically from other states) demand more and more water from a desert climate. Who knew.

[fdpaq0580]

Al Gore got the Nobel Peace Prize because the whole world made that decision. The whole world was able to make that CORRECT decision because the WORLD was NON-BIASED. However, "back in the USA" the OIL COMPANIES and their lobbyists used their MONEY to control the NARRATIVE and push BIAS against Al Gore. That BIAS continues today in the form of CLIMATE DENIERS. But, to the DENIERS DISMAY, right and Science, over time, wins out over ignorance and BIAS.

Yes! But, will science triumph before it is too late?

[sounding]

Al Gore got the Nobel Peace Prize because the whole world made that decision. The whole world was able to make that CORRECT decision because the WORLD was NON-BIASED. However, "back in the USA" the OIL COMPANIES and their lobbyists used their MONEY to control the NARRATIVE and push BIAS against Al Gore. That BIAS continues today in the form of CLIMATE DENIERS. But, to the DENIERS DISMAY, right and Science, over time, wins out over ignorance and BIAS.

No legitimate scientific organization ever gives an award for a "forecast." Any idiot can make a forecast. You only get awards for an unusual forecast that verifies. The Nobel Prize is now a political prize for those who produce the best science fiction stories.

[jimjamuser]

Don't worry! The "Climate Change" terrorist are going to starve you all to death very soon :)
Yes. Some people MAY STARVE. People in Africa and South America are already heading NORTH because they are STARVING due to Global Warming. Boats carrying grain to New Orleans and starving nations are unable to be FULLY LOADED because the Mississippi River is at near-record low water levels due to Global Warming. Food destined for US tables is slow in moving on the Mississippi.

Fish is getting more expensive because the basic feedstock for ocean fish protein is decreasing due to DYING coral reefs. China's increased population needs protein, so China is fishing the oceans dry with HUGE fishing fleets.

Meanwhile, ocean heat is causing HURRICANES to hit both coasts of Florida. That HEAT is forecast by Scientists to continue for the next 30 years. Scientists and young people like Greta Thunberg are warning society to change but society is reluctant. A tipping point may be reached from which life on earth will be miserable and there will be no return. The environmental CLOCK is ticking !

[fdpaq0580]

As usual, more narrative, with no evidence to show CO2 caused anything, except to make earth greener. Where's the beef?

You have been directed to the evidence many times and you label it fraud. Then you ask for evidence again, and again, on and on. That seems to be your narrative. Deny, deny, deny.

[sounding]

Yes. Some people MAY STARVE. People in Africa and South America are already heading NORTH because they are STARVING due to Global Warming. Boats carrying grain to New Orleans and starving nations are unable to be FULLY LOADED because the Mississippi River is at near-record low water levels due to Global Warming. Food destined for US tables is slow in moving on the Mississippi.

Fish is getting more expensive because the basic feedstock for ocean fish protein is decreasing due to DYING coral reefs. China's increased population needs protein, so China is fishing the oceans dry with HUGE fishing fleets.

Meanwhile, ocean heat is causing HURRICANES to hit both coasts of Florida. That HEAT is forecast by Scientists to continue for the next 30 years. Scientists and young people like Greta Thunberg are warning society to change but society is reluctant. A tipping point may be reached from which life on earth will be miserable and there will be no return. The environmental CLOCK is ticking !

Many more hurricanes hit both Florida coasts many years ago when CO2 levels were much lower than today. Hurricanes have been decreasing for the past 40 years -- if you look at the data. If you listen to the media (which ignores data) then you only hear about climate myths.

[fdpaq0580]

No legitimate scientific organization ever gives an award for a "forecast." Any idiot can make a forecast. You only get awards for an unusual forecast that verifies. The Nobel Prize is now a political prize for those who produce the best science fiction stories.

And that is why it is a waste of time continuing to respond to you. Like the child that says "why" to everything, it never ends. The teacher/parent gets frustrated, the child remains happily ignorant. Deny it all you want, the earth is heating up and mankind is an agent helping to drive it. Truth!

[sounding]

And that is why it is a waste of time continuing to respond to you. Like the child that says "why" to everything, it never ends. The teacher/parent gets frustrated, the child remains happily ignorant. Deny it all you want, the earth is heating up and mankind is an agent helping to drive it. Truth!

Excellent -- the pursuit of truth. Here is today's truth -- which of course is based on data ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSiKpEfVz2c

[jimjamuser]

Those who visit Sri Lanka can confirm what happens when a country is forced to go green.
Right now in the US of A, there are more GREEN jobs than jobs in BIG OIL. Young people see the future because they ARE the FUTURE. Unfortunately, a lot of older people are looking backward and can't see fossil fuel dying. They pretend that elephants are NOT dying even when they SEE it happening on TV. They disbelieve the Scientists that see rapid species extinction. They pretend that Coral Reef destruction will NEVER affect the cost of fish in restaurants. It is easier for older people to use the word HOAX than CONFRONT the Climate reality.

[jimjamuser]

No climate change here, then
A picture is worth a 1,000 words!

[jimjamuser]

That's what happens when a ruling majority invokes their religion, for reasons of religion and culture, the Buddhists and Hindus, who venerate cow, are opposed to beef and thus are against cow slaughter.
World population went from 1 billion people at the beginning of the Industrial Revolution to 8 billion today. That affects EVERYONE'S life.

[jimjamuser]

And those who visit Alaska, Africa, Australia and The Great Barrier Reef, and many other places around the world can confirm the damage already done by changing nothing. We need to change our ways or things will get worse. It is past time to become part of the solution, rather than part of the problem.
They ignored and laughed at Al Gore's early warnings. Today it gets harder and harder to IGNORE. When, in the FUTURE, people all over the US and Europe wake up one day and have half of South America and Africa camped out and starving in their backyards due to Climate Migration...........then what will they do .........blame Al Gore or the OIL Companies ??????

[jimjamuser]

I'm amazed that all the extra, beneficial CO2 in the air didn't cause the crops to grow even better!

Gotta wonder about some of the numbers. Crops decreased 20% when farmers let 33% of their land fallow. Some might see that as in increase per acre farmed. (must be due to the CO2)
Normal past levels of CO2 were beneficial. Today the EXCESS levels of CO2 are a POLLUTANT that due to the planet's surface heat is forced upward into the upper atmosphere and created a "blanket" (layman's terminology) which continues the HEATING cycle. Excess CO2 is caused after the Industrial Revolution by excess population served by excess Industrial and IC engine fossil fuel COMBUSTION. Let us HOPE that we have NOT passed that deadly "tipping point". Unfortunately, the Scientific predictions are for 30 years of INCREASING Global Warming!

[jimjamuser]

That's what happens in the "desert" south-west when more and more people (espeically from other states) demand more and more water from a desert climate. Who knew.
I believe that is a picture of the Mississippi River. I recognize the background island.

[jimjamuser]

Yes! But, will science triumph before it is too late?
The 1st step in solving a PROBLEM is to RECOGNIZE that problem. The UN and the World Climate Meeting recently has recognized the problem and WORRIES about a tipping point. The older segment (those in charge) of the US population REFUSES to even RECOGNIZE the problem. I guess they did NOT see the pictures of over 100 very DEAD elephants due to Global Warming. Elephants are intelligent (as are humans) but they could NOT avoid their FATE. I wonder if mankind will avoid a similar FATE ???????

[jimjamuser]

No legitimate scientific organization ever gives an award for a "forecast." Any idiot can make a forecast. You only get awards for an unusual forecast that verifies. The Nobel Prize is now a political prize for those who produce the best science fiction stories.
I have trouble believing that the world views the Nobel Peace Prize in that manner..

[jimjamuser]

Many more hurricanes hit both Florida coasts many years ago when CO2 levels were much lower than today. Hurricanes have been decreasing for the past 40 years -- if you look at the data. If you listen to the media (which ignores data) then you only hear about climate myths.
So, according to that post, I should be anti-media. What's next, I should be anti-books and then anti-science. Sounds like the promotion of "DEVOLUTION".

[fdpaq0580]

I have trouble believing that the world views the Nobel Peace Prize in that manner..

The world doesn't, but a group of cultists here do. There are always those who follow some guru, be the cause denying Global Warming or denying that the earth is a globe. Whatever their cause, they follow their leader like ants marching in a death spiral, too short sighted and too wrapped up in their ideology to see how they are being misled.

[fdpaq0580]

So, according to that post, I should be anti-media. What's next, I should be anti-books and then anti-science. Sounds like the promotion of "DEVOLUTION".

Reminiscent of "1984"? Or could that have been "Fahrenheit 451"? It's been a long time.

[dewilson58]

So,

Jimmy, you are on a roll.......................nine posts in a row.

:MOJE_whot::MOJE_whot::MOJE_whot:

[Love2Swim]

Excellent -- the pursuit of truth. Here is today's truth -- which of course is based on data ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSiKpEfVz2c

This is comedy, right? Youtube video by Tony Heller, longtime climate change denier who was banned from youtube for awhile for his bizarre conspiracies and dangerous disinformation such as Covid denial. It is scary to me that people can't see through such idiocy.

[jimjamuser]

***

[jimjamuser]

The world doesn't, but a group of cultists here do. There are always those who follow some guru, be the cause denying Global Warming or denying that the earth is a globe. Whatever their cause, they follow their leader like ants marching in a death spiral, too short sighted and too wrapped up in their ideology to see how they are being misled.
Yes, exactly.

[jimjamuser]

Reminiscent of "1984"? Or could that have been "Fahrenheit 451"? It's been a long time.
Let's see. Fahrenheit 451 was the temperature of books burning. But, both movies were about a future dystopian society. At their time they were challenging and thought-provoking. But, movies have come a long way since then.

[jimjamuser]

Jimmy, you are on a roll.......................nine posts in a row.

:MOJE_whot::MOJE_whot::MOJE_whot:
I thought that we got paid by the word.

[fdpaq0580]

I thought that we got paid by the word.

REALLY??? Who do I call? I haven't gotten my check yet.
😯