“the vha” is a trademark of the villages developer

[ScottFenstermaker]

The VHA Recommendation. The misleadingly named Villages Homeowners Advocates (better known as The VHA) has now come out in support of a Yes vote on the proposed fire district. This should surprise no one. The new fire district is being supported by the Developer (note the cap on taxes on commercial property), the Developer's appointed officials, and the Developer's newspaper.

The VHA's History. The VHA was founded in collaboration with the Developer, as VHA's own website kind of admits. Details on the ties between the VHA and the Developer can be found here: POA Accomplishments | POA of The Villages (https://www.poa4us.org/poa-accomplishments/) In any event, I have lived here for 15 years. During that time, the VHA has always served as mouthpiece for the Developer and as the Developer's minor league team--whose directors, if they behave and toe the Developer's line, can, with the Developer's backing, move up to the big league of the County Commission.

Developer Ownership of “The VHA” Trademark. Residents who have been paying attention to local politics understand the above facts. But what most residents (including members of The VHA) do not understand is that “The VHA” is actually a trademark of the Developer. You can't make this stuff up! Here is a link to the trademark office search page: Search trademark database | USPTO (https://www.uspto.gov/trademarks/search) Do a Basic Wordmark Search for “The VHA”.

The Platter of Platitudes in the VHA Voice. The VHA Voice serves up the usual platter of platitudes in its latest issue advocating a Yes vote on the fire district and glosses over all the reasons to vote NO. For example, it claims that “most residents will not see a significant increase in their tax bill.” What does “most” mean: 51%? What does “significant” mean? The truth is that there is no way of telling how much the initial unelected fire-district-board members (who, as a practical matter, will be designated by or acceptable to the Developer) will increase our taxes. One thing is clear, however, our taxes will increase! And for what???

Learn the Facts and Vote NO. One bit of advice that the VHA Voice does get right is: In researching the proposed fire district, “Always CONSIDER THE SOURCE”. By all means do so, and think about who owns The VHA trademark and the history of The VHA. Then read, or re-read, the October POA Bulletin ( https://www.poa4us.org/wp-content/uploads/simple-file-list/Bulletins/2022-10-Bulletin.pdf ), and, if you haven't already done so, reject the recommendation of the Developer's VHA and vote NO on the proposed fire district.

[Stu from NYC]

Interesting. Knew the vha usually voted for what the developer wanted but didnt know it was sort of owned by him.

[LuvtheVillages]

[ The new fire district is being supported by the Developer (note the cap on taxes on commercial property),


I agree - VOTE NO

To fund the fire district, there will be a millage rate tax on property UP TO A MAX VALUE OF $10 MILLION.

Look at any shopping plaza (they are all owned by the Developer). Look at Brownwood Hotel, or the Waterfront Hotel (owned by the Developer). Look at the new Brownwood Medical building (owned by the Developer.) If they are not each worth $10 million now, they soon will be. But the $10 million cap will stay $10 million forever.

And each of those buildings pay the same $124 per rooftop that you are paying because they have just one rooftop. Those apartment buildings at Brownwood, with dozens of units under one rooftop, also pay just $124 per building.

Why should the Developer's contribution to the fire department be capped artificially low and we have to pay full amount? Those commercial buildings and tall buildings require special equipment (which means larger firehouses).
He should be paying on the full value of his buildings, which he does now on the County property tax.

The proposed funding system is not fair.

[ScottFenstermaker]

[ The new fire district is being supported by the Developer (note the cap on taxes on commercial property),


I agree - VOTE NO

To fund the fire district, there will be a millage rate tax on property UP TO A MAX VALUE OF $10 MILLION.

Look at any shopping plaza (they are all owned by the Developer). Look at Brownwood Hotel, or the Waterfront Hotel (owned by the Developer). Look at the new Brownwood Medical building (owned by the Developer.) If they are not each worth $10 million now, they soon will be. But the $10 million cap will stay $10 million forever.

And each of those buildings pay the same $124 per rooftop that you are paying because they have just one rooftop. Those apartment buildings at Brownwood, with dozens of units under one rooftop, also pay just $124 per building.

Why should the Developer's contribution to the fire department be capped artificially low and we have to pay full amount? Those commercial buildings and tall buildings require special equipment (which means larger firehouses).
He should be paying on the full value of his buildings, which he does now on the County property tax.

The proposed funding system is not fair.

Exactly!

[ScottFenstermaker]

Interesting. Knew the vha usually voted for what the developer wanted but didnt know it was sort of owned by him.
Stu, why do you say "usually"? If you can cite one instance where the VHA has not "voted for what the developer wanted", I would be glad to be educated.

[Bill14564]

[ The new fire district is being supported by the Developer (note the cap on taxes on commercial property),


I agree - VOTE NO

To fund the fire district, there will be a millage rate tax on property UP TO A MAX VALUE OF $10 MILLION.

Look at any shopping plaza (they are all owned by the Developer). Look at Brownwood Hotel, or the Waterfront Hotel (owned by the Developer). Look at the new Brownwood Medical building (owned by the Developer.) If they are not each worth $10 million now, they soon will be. But the $10 million cap will stay $10 million forever.

And each of those buildings pay the same $124 per rooftop that you are paying because they have just one rooftop. Those apartment buildings at Brownwood, with dozens of units under one rooftop, also pay just $124 per building.

Why should the Developer's contribution to the fire department be capped artificially low and we have to pay full amount? Those commercial buildings and tall buildings require special equipment (which means larger firehouses).
He should be paying on the full value of his buildings, which he does now on the County property tax.

The proposed funding system is not fair.

Just because you don't understand it does not mean it is not fair.

Do the research - I found 17 properties that will benefit from the $10M cap. Not hundreds, not dozens, just 17 and not all of them are owned by the Villages.

The rest of the 2000+ properties clearly owned by the Villages will have the same increase that you do. Well, not exactly the same: yours will be maybe $100. Theirs will range from $100 to at least $750.

AND FOR THE UMPTEENTH TIME: YOU ARE PAYING MUCH MORE THAN $124 TODAY!

[Papa_lecki]

[B]

[B]Developer Ownership of “The VHA” Trademark. Residents who have been paying attention to local politics understand the above facts. But what most residents (including members of The VHA) do not understand is that “The VHA” is actually a trademark of the Developer. You can't make this stuff up! Here is a link to the trademark office search page: Search trademark database | USPTO (https://www.uspto.gov/trademarks/search) Do a Basic Wordmark Search for “The VHA”.


That EVIL developer, who built a community that is so nice, we all chose to move here.

Are you sure the VHA doesn’t pay a royalty to the developer to use the trademark or at least has a use agreement.
I am glad the developer trademarked it early on, prevented another organization from using the name.

[LuvtheVillages]

Just because you don't understand it does not mean it is not fair.

Do the research - I found six (6) properties that will benefit from the $10M cap. Not hundreds, not dozens, just six and not all of them are owned by the Villages.

The rest of the 100 or so properties clearly owned by the Villages will have the same increase that you do. Well, not exactly the same: yours will be maybe $100. Theirs will range from $100 to at least $750.

AND FOR THE UMPTEENTH TIME: YOU ARE PAYING MUCH MORE THAN $124 TODAY!


Ok, yes, six properties benefit from the cap today. As property values rise, how many will benefit from the cap 10 years from today? And why should there be any cap at all? What is the rationale?

And yes, I know we are paying more than $124 today. I would like to see that portion of the funding eliminated entirely, and the cost be fully put onto the millage rate tax, with NO cap. I think that would be more fair.

[Kenswing]

Hmmmm. Who to support? A group who is supported by the Developer or a lawyer who hates the Developer? Don’t care much for lawyers to begin with. But when ALL of said lawyer’s posts on this site are anti-Developer all I can conclude is that this lawyer is blinded by his hatred. Sad life to live.

[Bill14564]

Ok, yes, six properties benefit from the cap today. As property values rise, how many will benefit from the cap 10 years from today? And why should there be any cap at all? What is the rationale?

And yes, I know we are paying more than $124 today. I would like to see that portion of the funding eliminated entirely, and the cost be fully put onto the millage rate tax, with NO cap. I think that would be more fair.

NOTE: I updated my numbers. 17 properties benefit from the cap, not all owned by The Vilages, and over 2000 properties apparently owned by The Villages do NOT benefit from the cap in any way.

You still don't seem to understand. The VPSD today is funded with the $124 plus about 0.71 mils of your millage rate today, with NO cap. And with no limit on the millage rate, that 0.71 today could be much higher next year. I believe the $124 is separated from the ad-valorem so that properties that would otherwise be exempt from ad-valorem due to exemptions will still pay something towards fire protection. Roll the $124 into the ad-valorem and some portion of those fees will no longer be collected.

Those who are against the IFD aren't going to point out that that there are several caps on the IFD funding. Yes, there is the $10M cap that benefits those 17 properties but there is also a cap on the 0.75mils and on the 1mil that benefit all of us. Increasing the 0.75mils is difficult and increasing the 1mil is impossible without another referendum. Compare that with the system in place today where the BoCC controls the millage and just three years ago increased it by 33%.

How many will benefit from the cap 10 years from now? There is no way of knowing. Perhaps only five if the economy has a downturn and assessments drop. Or maybe assessments keep climbing and more benefit. But remember, the $10M cap only applies to the 0.75mil portion, it does not apply to the 0-1mil ad-valorem piece and any increase in value will result in an increase in IFD fees for those properties as well.

[LuvtheVillages]

NOTE: I updated my numbers. 17 properties benefit from the cap, not all owned by The Vilages, and over 2000 properties apparently owned by The Villages do NOT benefit from the cap in any way.

You still don't seem to understand. The VPSD today is funded with the $124 plus about 0.71 mils of your millage rate today, with NO cap. And with no limit on the millage rate, that 0.71 today could be much higher next year. I believe the $124 is separated from the ad-valorem so that properties that would otherwise be exempt from ad-valorem due to exemptions will still pay something towards fire protection. Roll the $124 into the ad-valorem and some portion of those fees will no longer be collected.

Those who are against the IFD aren't going to point out that that there are several caps on the IFD funding. Yes, there is the $10M cap that benefits those 17 properties but there is also a cap on the 0.75mils and on the 1mil that benefit all of us. Increasing the 0.75mils is difficult and increasing the 1mil is impossible without another referendum. Compare that with the system in place today where the BoCC controls the millage and just three years ago increased it by 33%.

How many will benefit from the cap 10 years from now? There is no way of knowing. Perhaps only five if the economy has a downturn and assessments drop. Or maybe assessments keep climbing and more benefit. But remember, the $10M cap only applies to the 0.75mil portion, it does not apply to the 0-1mil ad-valorem piece and any increase in value will result in an increase in IFD fees for those properties as well.


Yes, I understand all that perfectly. Just because I disagree with you does not mean I don't understand. I believe that having the fire dept cost on the county property tax, with no caps, will be more fair. Should County Commissioners abuse our trust again, they will also lose the next election.

You prefer this new method.

I guess we have to let everyone read our reasoning and decide for themselves.

[ScottFenstermaker]

That EVIL developer, who built a community that is so nice, we all chose to move here.

Are you sure the VHA doesn’t pay a royalty to the developer to use the trademark or at least has a use agreement.
I am glad the developer trademarked it early on, prevented another organization from using the name.
So you are seriously suggesting that the VHA is paying a royalty to the Developer? Wow, the would be news and even worse than a royalty-free use. Do you understand that a trademark owner who licenses a mark, in order to protect his registration, has to monitor the quality of the product or service that uses the trademark? How do you think that it that is done in the case of "The VHA" mark? I don't know, but the relationship has an odor to it. Developer ownership of "The VHA" mark certainly shows the influence that the Developer has over The Villages Homeowners Advocates organization.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I live in Lake County and therefore don't have a dog in this fight. As an observer from the outside, here's my input on the fire district situation.

From a purely capitalistic point of view, it's in the Developer's best interest to contain the district under their umbrella. In this way, they reap the rewards. They own the "company" (the fire department) and can charge the county, the CDD, whoever - whatever they want for the service. They don't have to put the service out to bid, they don't require that anyone vote on it. You might have to pay extra tax dollars, imposed by the county. That's to pay the company (the fire department) for their services. Services that will cost whatever they tell you they cost, since they OWN them and you voted to GIVE them that authority.

For that reason, I'm against giving the ownership of the fire district to the Villages. While the service is under the authority of the county, it answers to the taxpayers. While the service is under the authority of the Villages, it answers to no one.

[Bill14564]

I live in Lake County and therefore don't have a dog in this fight. As an observer from the outside, here's my input on the fire district situation.

From a purely capitalistic point of view, it's in the Developer's best interest to contain the district under their umbrella. In this way, they reap the rewards. They own the "company" (the fire department) and can charge the county, the CDD, whoever - whatever they want for the service. They don't have to put the service out to bid, they don't require that anyone vote on it. You might have to pay extra tax dollars, imposed by the county. That's to pay the company (the fire department) for their services. Services that will cost whatever they tell you they cost, since they OWN them and you voted to GIVE them that authority.

For that reason, I'm against giving the ownership of the fire district to the Villages. While the service is under the authority of the county, it answers to the taxpayers. While the service is under the authority of the Villages, it answers to no one.

What you describe in your middle paragraph is what we have today. The VCCDD "owns" the VPSD. The VCCDD tells the BoCC what is needed to provide the service and the BoCC passes it along to all of us as ad-valorem taxes.

If the IFD passes then the "ownership" of the VPSD passes from the VCCDD to the IFD board elected by the residents.

[tophcfa]

I am very concerned about the cost of the proposed fire district. The voters are basically being asked to approve writing a blank check. Come back to the voters when you have hard cost information and can report to voters with transparency what the are being asked to approve. And besides, this whole thing is putting the cart in front of the horse. Improved response time is not nearly as important an issue as the fact that medical patients will be dumped at a horribly incompetent hospital. What good is faster response time when the ultimate outcome is that one will get dumped off at a hell hole so they can hurry up and wait for absolutely terrible health care. Based on my (and many others) experience with the Villages hospital, I would rather die at home than be brought to that nightmare.

[manaboutown]

So you are seriously suggesting that the VHA is paying a royalty to the Developer? Wow, the would be news and even worse than a royalty-free use. Do you understand that a trademark owner who licenses a mark, in order to protect his registration, has to monitor the quality of the product or service that uses the trademark? How do you think that it that is done in the case of "The VHA" mark? I don't know, but the relationship has an odor to it. Developer ownership of "The VHA" mark certainly shows the influence that the Developer has over The Villages Homeowners Advocates organization.

The VHA is another tool in the developer's sales/management kit. As I understand it the VHA started in 1990 or 1991 in response to the Property Owners' Association's looking out for the interest of homeowners versus those of the developer. I cannot recall the VHA ever taking action on behalf of homeowners against the interests of the developer. The developer settled a lawsuit with the POA for $40,000,000 or so. Villages Settles Lawsuit | POA of The Villages (https://www.poa4us.org/villages-settles-lawsuit/)

[Sabella]

Look at the facts

[Cmacnair@hotmail.com]

An article in October’s POA discuss this very thing. Vote NO on the new proposal.

[jimdecastro]

In August, you resigned from the POA because of their management and leadership. Here, you cite the POA as a reference for the VHA being a puppet of the developer. Make up your mind; just like the people should make up their minds with all the facts (not just yours). All of your posts are full of ire. Why so angry?

[M2inOR]

The following is a simple, short comment from VHA rep Mike Dollard about the ballot measure that would create the new fire and emergency services district:
-----
This fall we vote on the creation of a fire district specifically for The Villages. I’ve thought about this a lot, even changed my mind a few times. I will vote yes; this will be a good thing for us. Here is why:

The cost? You will pay either way, it is just who gets the tax dollars first. One party cannot be cheaper than the other – fuel, equipment and wages are the same if you vote yes or no. The fire budget will be X amount. If I am billed that under “county tax” or under “fire tax” the budget is still X amount.

The deciding factor – when the county oversaw the ambulances, we had terrible service and nobody seemed to care. It slowly got worse and worse; still nothing was done. Tempers flared, example after example of failure but nothing was done. You had your chance (actually, many chances). It is time for new management.

[HoosierPa]

That’s because YES on the fire district is the correct vote.

[TomPerry]

The VHA Recommendation. The misleadingly named Villages Homeowners Advocates (better known as The VHA) has now come out in support of a Yes vote on the proposed fire district. This should surprise no one. The new fire district is being supported by the Developer (note the cap on taxes on commercial property), the Developer's appointed officials, and the Developer's newspaper.

The VHA's History. The VHA was founded in collaboration with the Developer, as VHA's own website kind of admits. Details on the ties between the VHA and the Developer can be found here: POA Accomplishments | POA of The Villages (https://www.poa4us.org/poa-accomplishments/) In any event, I have lived here for 15 years. During that time, the VHA has always served as mouthpiece for the Developer and as the Developer's minor league team--whose directors, if they behave and toe the Developer's line, can, with the Developer's backing, move up to the big league of the County Commission.

Developer Ownership of “The VHA” Trademark. Residents who have been paying attention to local politics understand the above facts. But what most residents (including members of The VHA) do not understand is that “The VHA” is actually a trademark of the Developer. You can't make this stuff up! Here is a link to the trademark office search page: Search trademark database | USPTO (https://www.uspto.gov/trademarks/search) Do a Basic Wordmark Search for “The VHA”.

The Platter of Platitudes in the VHA Voice. The VHA Voice serves up the usual platter of platitudes in its latest issue advocating a Yes vote on the fire district and glosses over all the reasons to vote NO. For example, it claims that “most residents will not see a significant increase in their tax bill.” What does “most” mean: 51%? What does “significant” mean? The truth is that there is no way of telling how much the initial unelected fire-district-board members (who, as a practical matter, will be designated by or acceptable to the Developer) will increase our taxes. One thing is clear, however, our taxes will increase! And for what???

Learn the Facts and Vote NO. One bit of advice that the VHA Voice does get right is: In researching the proposed fire district, “Always CONSIDER THE SOURCE”. By all means do so, and think about who owns The VHA trademark and the history of The VHA. Then read, or re-read, the October POA Bulletin ( https://www.poa4us.org/wp-content/uploads/simple-file-list/Bulletins/2022-10-Bulletin.pdf ), and, if you haven't already done so, reject the recommendation of the Developer's VHA and vote NO on the proposed fire district.
The VHA is Pro-Developer and POA is Anti-Developer. Sounds balanced! What are the Positives and the Negatives?

The Positives— the Developer made this great and beautiful place to live and enjoy our lives!
The Negatives— the POA makes hatefulness and grief to distract our lives!

If the POA supporters hate so much, they should sell out at what is nearly the top and move to a nice trailer park!

[HoosierPa]

The VHA is Pro-Developer and POA is Anti-Developer. Sounds balanced! What are the Positives and the Negatives?

The Positives— the Developer made this great and beautiful place to live and enjoy our lives!
The Negatives— the POA makes hatefulness and grief to distract our lives!

If the POA supporters hate so much, they should sell out at what is nearly the top and move to a nice trailer park!

Amen sayonara POA

[Bridget Staunton]

I have voted No, taxes high enough

[TrapX]

It appears that some people support paying more (amounts vary) under the assumption that extra money would make things better. But the numbers don't seem to add up. Paying more by residents is not going to result in more money for fire and EMS service because some other group will pay less.
Published info say the final FD funding is the same either pass or fail. I see all residential properties will pay more (per the online cost estimator, and the published sample estimates). However, the total budget is the same. So if residents pay more, but the total doesn't go up, something else must be paying less to make that balance out? Total = Resident + Commercial. What information is missing?

The county fixed the ambulances without a fire district. Why is a fire district necessary to fix other things? Isn't that the job of the people in charge today? If the district is truly only about changing funding, then won't the same people still be managing things?

Championing how this will be overseen by "independent elected citizens". But that's not happening for 2 to 4 years. Lots of comments that "puppets" for the developer will be appointed because we do not know in advance who will be on that board. If that happens, for at least 2 years these appointed people could make any number of permanent changes that cost residents a lot more money without any "citizen" oversight. They could grant exemptions, lower the cap, hire friends and family, go on a spending spree, raise the tax rates...

[pauld315]

So you are seriously suggesting that the VHA is paying a royalty to the Developer? Wow, the would be news and even worse than a royalty-free use. Do you understand that a trademark owner who licenses a mark, in order to protect his registration, has to monitor the quality of the product or service that uses the trademark? How do you think that it that is done in the case of "The VHA" mark? I don't know, but the relationship has an odor to it. Developer ownership of "The VHA" mark certainly shows the influence that the Developer has over The Villages Homeowners Advocates organization.

It is widely known that the VHA was founded by the developer and loaded up with his minions to try to put the POA out of business. They always have been controlled by the developer and everything they do is controlled by the developer, just like PWAC, AAC and most of the CDD's. It is one family rule here in The Villages.

[kansasr]

The following is a simple, short comment from VHA rep Mike Dollard about the ballot measure that would create the new fire and emergency services district:
-----
This fall we vote on the creation of a fire district specifically for The Villages. I’ve thought about this a lot, even changed my mind a few times. I will vote yes; this will be a good thing for us. Here is why:

The cost? You will pay either way, it is just who gets the tax dollars first. One party cannot be cheaper than the other – fuel, equipment and wages are the same if you vote yes or no. The fire budget will be X amount. If I am billed that under “county tax” or under “fire tax” the budget is still X amount.

The deciding factor – when the county oversaw the ambulances, we had terrible service and nobody seemed to care. It slowly got worse and worse; still nothing was done. Tempers flared, example after example of failure but nothing was done. You had your chance (actually, many chances). It is time for new management.

Unfortunately, because of the way the levy is based, I, and anyone else who has any sort of exemptions (homestead, veteran, disabled) is going to end up paying a larger share of this 'bucket of money'.

First, because of the 10 mil cap, there are currently 17 properties that exceed this amount and their "savings" because of this will be over $120,000. Who's going to make up that amount? The rest of us.

And second, because the levy is based upon the full value of your property (less land value) without any EXEMPTIONS, my tax is going to be based upon a much larger number that the corresponding tax I'm currently paying to the county.

So who does this benefit financially? Commercial properties, non homestead properties, non exempt properties.

Given that this is all about who gets the money and who divides up the money, and not who actually uses the money, it's a NO vote for me.

[Lisanp@aol.com]

IF you still had school aged children, would you wish to send them to Wildwood High School or to The Villages Charter School? It’s the exact same argument/scenario - public/county/government run vs developer controlled. I tried to go vote yesterday as I thought this issue was one that is open for all property owners to vote on with a villages iD, but I was mistaken that it’s only for those who are registered to vote in FL so you won’t get the opinion of all property owners who will be impacted accounted for with the vote anyway.

[Burgy]

Yes, I understand all that perfectly. Just because I disagree with you does not mean I don't understand. I believe that having the fire dept cost on the county property tax, with no caps, will be more fair. Should County Commissioners abuse our trust again, they will also lose the next election.

You prefer this new method.

I guess we have to let everyone read our reasoning and decide for themselves..It’s too confusing to sort out and poorly presented as to cost so I didn’t support it

[Altavia]

IF you still had school aged children, would you wish to send them to Wildwood High School or to The Villages Charter School? It’s the exact same argument/scenario - public/county/government run vs developer controlled.


Exactly, it's the quality and caliber of the management.

We get good long range planning and value for what we pay the Villages managed operations.

Sumter County not so much, and maybe even a little spiteful to the Villages residents with their zoning approvals. Anything they start takes forever to finish.

[missibu@gmail.com]

The VHA Recommendation. The misleadingly named Villages Homeowners Advocates (better known as The VHA) has now come out in support of a Yes vote on the proposed fire district. This should surprise no one. The new fire district is being supported by the Developer (note the cap on taxes on commercial property), the Developer's appointed officials, and the Developer's newspaper.

The VHA's History. The VHA was founded in collaboration with the Developer, as VHA's own website kind of admits. Details on the ties between the VHA and the Developer can be found here: POA Accomplishments | POA of The Villages (https://www.poa4us.org/poa-accomplishments/) In any event, I have lived here for 15 years. During that time, the VHA has always served as mouthpiece for the Developer and as the Developer's minor league team--whose directors, if they behave and toe the Developer's line, can, with the Developer's backing, move up to the big league of the County Commission.

Developer Ownership of “The VHA” Trademark. Residents who have been paying attention to local politics understand the above facts. But what most residents (including members of The VHA) do not understand is that “The VHA” is actually a trademark of the Developer. You can't make this stuff up! Here is a link to the trademark office search page: Search trademark database | USPTO (https://www.uspto.gov/trademarks/search) Do a Basic Wordmark Search for “The VHA”.

The Platter of Platitudes in the VHA Voice. The VHA Voice serves up the usual platter of platitudes in its latest issue advocating a Yes vote on the fire district and glosses over all the reasons to vote NO. For example, it claims that “most residents will not see a significant increase in their tax bill.” What does “most” mean: 51%? What does “significant” mean? The truth is that there is no way of telling how much the initial unelected fire-district-board members (who, as a practical matter, will be designated by or acceptable to the Developer) will increase our taxes. One thing is clear, however, our taxes will increase! And for what???

Learn the Facts and Vote NO. One bit of advice that the VHA Voice does get right is: In researching the proposed fire district, “Always CONSIDER THE SOURCE”. By all means do so, and think about who owns The VHA trademark and the history of The VHA. Then read, or re-read, the October POA Bulletin ( https://www.poa4us.org/wp-content/uploads/simple-file-list/Bulletins/2022-10-Bulletin.pdf ), and, if you haven't already done so, reject the recommendation of the Developer's VHA and vote NO on the proposed fire district.

My husband and I own a home but are not there yet not for another year are we able to vote on the proposed fire district ?

[Bogie Shooter]

My husband and I own a home but are not there yet not for another year are we able to vote on the proposed fire district ?

Election is Tuesday .....you are a little late to the dance.

[phassett]

I never thought I would see people in Florida advocating to leave the management of anything to government. As TV is still selling houses all over the place with no sign of slowing down, would they advocate for some runaway train of tax increases for fire and ambulance protection? Of all the possible ways they can bilk us out of cash, the firehouse is a little far fetched isn't it? I know we all want the best for nothing but as for me, I'll vote for faster response and more control over less.

[ScottFenstermaker]

My husband and I own a home but are not there yet not for another year are we able to vote on the proposed fire district ?
Not unless you are registered to vote within the proposed fire district.

[justjim]

My husband and I own a home but are not there yet not for another year are we able to vote on the proposed fire district ?

Nope - But you are not in that boat by yourself.

[justjim]

I never thought I would see people in Florida advocating to leave the management of anything to government. As TV is still selling houses all over the place with no sign of slowing down, would they advocate for some runaway train of tax increases for fire and ambulance protection? Of all the possible ways they can bilk us out of cash, the firehouse is a little far fetched isn't it? I know we all want the best for nothing but as for me, I'll vote for faster response and more control over less.
“Government” don’t be too hard on yourself as the government is the people.

[jimmy o]

The VHA Recommendation. The misleadingly named Villages Homeowners Advocates (better known as The VHA) has now come out in support of a Yes vote on the proposed fire district. This should surprise no one. The new fire district is being supported by the Developer (note the cap on taxes on commercial property), the Developer's appointed officials, and the Developer's newspaper.

The VHA's History. The VHA was founded in collaboration with the Developer, as VHA's own website kind of admits. Details on the ties between the VHA and the Developer can be found here: POA Accomplishments | POA of The Villages (https://www.poa4us.org/poa-accomplishments/) In any event, I have lived here for 15 years. During that time, the VHA has always served as mouthpiece for the Developer and as the Developer's minor league team--whose directors, if they behave and toe the Developer's line, can, with the Developer's backing, move up to the big league of the County Commission.

Developer Ownership of “The VHA” Trademark. Residents who have been paying attention to local politics understand the above facts. But what most residents (including members of The VHA) do not understand is that “The VHA” is actually a trademark of the Developer. You can't make this stuff up! Here is a link to the trademark office search page: Search trademark database | USPTO (https://www.uspto.gov/trademarks/search) Do a Basic Wordmark Search for “The VHA”.

The Platter of Platitudes in the VHA Voice. The VHA Voice serves up the usual platter of platitudes in its latest issue advocating a Yes vote on the fire district and glosses over all the reasons to vote NO. For example, it claims that “most residents will not see a significant increase in their tax bill.” What does “most” mean: 51%? What does “significant” mean? The truth is that there is no way of telling how much the initial unelected fire-district-board members (who, as a practical matter, will be designated by or acceptable to the Developer) will increase our taxes. One thing is clear, however, our taxes will increase! And for what???

Learn the Facts and Vote NO. One bit of advice that the VHA Voice does get right is: In researching the proposed fire district, “Always CONSIDER THE SOURCE”. By all means do so, and think about who owns The VHA trademark and the history of The VHA. Then read, or re-read, the October POA Bulletin ( https://www.poa4us.org/wp-content/uploads/simple-file-list/Bulletins/2022-10-Bulletin.pdf ), and, if you haven't already done so, reject the recommendation of the Developer's VHA and vote NO on the proposed fire district.

One post says new tax could only add. 1 mil. That post should have said 1 mil per year could be added to tax bill. Maybe I’m jaded as I come from Chicago, but I have never voted for a tax increase in my life and I doubt anything could ever change my mind on that.

[Sabella]

It is widely known that the VHA was founded by the developer and loaded up with his minions to try to put the POA out of business. They always have been controlled by the developer and everything they do is controlled by the developer, just like PWAC, AAC and most of the CDD's. It is one family rule here in The Villages.

Correct - how do others not see the VHA looks out for the developer and the POA looks out for the homeowners. Kinda reminds me of another situation where who should come first doesn’t.

[SUENRAN]

I am very concerned about the cost of the proposed fire district. The voters are basically being asked to approve writing a blank check. Come back to the voters when you have hard cost information and can report to voters with transparency what the are being asked to approve. And besides, this whole thing is putting the cart in front of the horse. Improved response time is not nearly as important an issue as the fact that medical patients will be dumped at a horribly incompetent hospital. What good is faster response time when the ultimate outcome is that one will get dumped off at a hell hole so they can hurry up and wait for absolutely terrible health care. Based on my (and many others) experience with the Villages hospital, I would rather die at home than be brought to that nightmare.

Cost information? You have been provided with this information based on current costs. The "hard cost" will can only be calculated when there is a track record....and this is what the current projection is based on. As for your statement you will get dumped off at a "hell hole"... you must have no idea how the emergency medical services work and that a person does have choices as to the facility they will be taken to.

Vote "YES" if you want to have a say in how the VPS operates and what and how they provide life saving service.

[SUENRAN]

One post says new tax could only add. 1 mil. That post should have said 1 mil per year could be added to tax bill. Maybe I’m jaded as I come from Chicago, but I have never voted for a tax increase in my life and I doubt anything could ever change my mind on that.

Keep that thought in mind when you are waiting up to 2 hours for a county provided ambulance. From Chicago area too and I really enjoy the lower tax burden in Florida....and The Villages. I've voted and I voted "YES".

[ScottFenstermaker]

Cost information? You have been provided with this information based on current costs. The "hard cost" will can only be calculated when there is a track record....and this is what the current projection is based on. As for your statement you will get dumped off at a "hell hole"... you must have no idea how the emergency medical services work and that a person does have choices as to the facility they will be taken to.

Vote "YES" if you want to have a say in how the VPS operates and what and how they provide life saving service.
And vote NO if you realize that the present system is working and you don't want to buy a pig in a poke that will increase your taxes.

[tophcfa]

Keep that thought in mind when you are waiting up to 2 hours for a county provided ambulance. From Chicago area too and I really enjoy the lower tax burden in Florida....and The Villages. I've voted and I voted "YES".

Keep in mind that when you get dumped at the ER of the Villages Hospital on El Camino Real you could very well wind up waiting 12 hours, only to finally get misdiagnosed and sent home to die. That's what happened to me, fortunately my wife got into her car and drove two days non stop to come pick me up and bring me to a real hospital in Gainesville, with very little time to spare.

I am all for quicker response time, assuming there is a decent and competent place to be brought to, but what difference does it make if you wind up at the Villages Hospital?

[ScottFenstermaker]

Keep that thought in mind when you are waiting up to 2 hours for a county provided ambulance. From Chicago area too and I really enjoy the lower tax burden in Florida....and The Villages. I've voted and I voted "YES".
When you voted, did you understand that the VPSD now has its own ambulances?

[oldtimes]

When you voted, did you understand that the VPSD now has its own ambulances?

Which the county could move to other areas of the county if they are in control.

[Kenswing]

When you voted, did you understand that the VPSD now has its own ambulances?

Which the county could reallocate at any time if they choose to restructure the fire departments.

[ScottFenstermaker]

Which the county could move to other areas of the county if they are in control.
That will never happen. All the VPSD's ambulances are now owned by the relevant CDD (i.e.The Villages Public Safety Department). In addition, under One Sumter, ALL the county commissioners are elected by Villagers.

[oldtimes]

That will never happen. All the VPSD's ambulances are now owned by the relevant CDD (i.e.The Villages Public Safety Department). In addition, under One Sumter, ALL the county commissioners are elected by Villagers.

Weren't the Villagers elected commissioners the ones who voted to raise taxes 25% just a while back? Even though they are not the same ones how do we know we can trust these not to sell out? I trust the Independent District more than I trust the County.

[jump4]

Do you think we need an Independent Fire District? Please consider the following:

--- fire control service within The Villages has been working well for many years. It is funded by Sumter County tax revenue and operated by The Village Public Safety Department. The County has always provided adequate funding for this.
--- Sumter County canceled the poor-performing AMR contract ambulance service
--- Sumter County decided to use the successful fire control service as a model for creating a new locally-run ambulance service.
--- On Oct. 1, 2022 The Village fire stations, funded by Sumter County, started running the new red ambulances.
--- The Villages now has a 5-1/2 minutes response goal for all fire and ambulance calls.
--- The Nov. 8 vote on whether to create an independent Fire District does not change the fire and ambulance service currently offered in the Villages or surrounding areas.
--- Estimates provided by The Villages District show a Yes vote to create an Independent Fire District will increase property tax bills somewhat, but do not reflect the maximum tax rate permitted by the referendum.
--- Although the Fire District amendment caps the amount of tax, if the Villages decides to charge the maximum permitted rate, it appears that property taxes for many homes would increase by $200 to $400 or more.
--- Other cities and counties with property in The Villages decided to not create an independent fire district.

It appears a Yes vote would create a new bureaucracy and increase our taxes, but have no real benefit for us residents! :(

[Bill14564]

Which the county could move to other areas of the county if they are in control.

That will never happen. All the VPSD's ambulances are now owned by the relevant CDD (i.e.The Villages Public Safety Department). In addition, under One Sumter, ALL the county commissioners are elected by Villagers.

EDIT: I misunderstood the "relevant CDD" statement. The VPSD is not a CDD.

The ambulances are "owned" by the VPSD and the VPSD is "owned" by the VCCDD.

Having the ambulances is good but using them is even better. For the ambulances to help the first person they need fuel to run them, a driver to get them to your house, an EMT to provide assistance, and they need to be carrying life saving supplies. ALL of those cost money which currently comes from the BoCC.

BoCC -> VCCDD -> VPSD -> drivers/supplies/fuel -> ambulances -> timely response.

A YES vote changes that to:

IFD -> VPSD -> drivers/supplies/fuel -> ambulances -> timely response

So what happens when the BoCC finds running separate fire services and separate ambulances is too expensive? Simple, they will make a five-year plan to consolidate the VPSD with the SCFD. Or, they will vote to merge the VPSD with the SCFD. Or, they will simply reduce funding for the separate fire service. The first has already happened. The second was brought up by a current (elected by the Villagers) commissioner when he was in a different role. The third, reduced funding, could happen as early as next October.

The IFD removes the BoCC and likely the VCCDD from the management and funding chain.

Before taking anyone's claims on here as gospel, take a look at their previous posts and see how well their crystal ball has worked in the past. This poster was quite prolific in the past under a different user name.

[Bill14564]

Do you think we need an Independent Fire District? Please consider the following:

--- fire control service within The Villages has been working well for many years. It is funded by Sumter County tax revenue and operated by The Village Public Safety Department. The County has always provided adequate funding for this.
--- Sumter County canceled the poor-performing AMR contract ambulance service
--- Sumter County decided to use the successful fire control service as a model for creating a new locally-run ambulance service.
Sumter County decided to study the poor ambulance service and subsequently to add ambulances to the fire stations only after a large outcry by the residents of the Villages. The service was poor under county control. The way to fix the service was to place it with the successful VPSD. They didn't choose to do this on their own.

This all happened by votes of the BoCC. What the BoCC giveth the BoCC can taketh away. The IFD protects the VPSD from the BoCC taking the ambulances, and the fire service, away.
--- On Oct. 1, 2022 The Village fire stations, funded by Sumter County, started running the new red ambulances.
--- The Villages now has a 5-1/2 minutes response goal for all fire and ambulance calls.
--- The Nov. 8 vote on whether to create an independent Fire District does not change the fire and ambulance service currently offered in the Villages or surrounding areas.
--- Estimates provided by The Villages District show a Yes vote to create an Independent Fire District will increase property tax bills somewhat, but do not reflect the maximum tax rate permitted by the referendum.
--- Although the Fire District amendment caps the amount of tax, if the Villages decides to charge the maximum permitted rate, it appears that property taxes for many homes would increase by $200 to $400 or more.
The maximum amounts are provided in all the IFD announcements that have come out (that chart at the bottom). The tax estimates represent what we are likely to see in order to fund the IFD/VPSD at the same level the BoCC/VCCDD/VPSD is funded at today.

The IFD *could* increase the ad-valorem tax to 1mil. That would be a surprise. For me that would mean about an additional $275. Another thread talked about the 17 properties that benefit from the $10M cap. That cap does not affect the ad-valorem portion - if it is raised for me it is raised for them too.

While a 1mil ad-valorem would add $275 for me, it would add $347,000 for those 17 properties alone and the developer has thousands of other properties that will increase as well! If you want to believe in the "developer will run the IFD board conspiracy" then you have to ask yourself: Will the IFD make a move that will cost the Developer $347,000 on 17 properties PLUS maybe another $600,000 on the rest of his properties?
--- Other cities and counties with property in The Villages decided to not create an independent fire district.

It appears a Yes vote would create a new bureaucracy and increase our taxes, but have no real benefit for us residents! :(

A Yes vote will actually decrease the bureaucracy between the resident and the VPSD.
A Yes vote *might* increase our taxes but whether that happens has a lot to do with how fair the BoCC is.
A Yes vote will ensure the VPSD has the funding it needs to continue to provide the quick and effective ambulance and fire service we have enjoyed for the last 36 days.

[M2inOR]

My husband and I own a home but are not there yet not for another year are we able to vote on the proposed fire district ?

In order to vote, you must be a registered voter here in Florida. Being a property owner is not sufficient.

And...you can only be legally registered to vote in one state. While you can have multiple residences, you can only have one domicile and voter registration.

[ScottFenstermaker]

Weren't the Villagers elected commissioners the ones who voted to raise taxes 25% just a while back? Even though they are not the same ones how do we know we can trust these not to sell out? I trust the Independent District more than I trust the County.
A brief history lesson: The 5 Commissioners who voted for the 25% tax increase were Developer puppets who enacted the tax increase to protect the Developer's sweetheart impact fee. We have now succeeded in tossing out ALL 5 of those puppets. (You can easily verify all that.)

IF we enact the new fire district, control of the fire district board during its formative first four years will be in the hands of un-elected supervisors. Those suprvisors (as a practical matter) will be designated by, or at least acceptable to, the Developer.

[oldtimes]

A brief history lesson; The 5 Commissioners who voted for the 25% tax increase were Developer puppets who enacted the tax increase to protect the Developer's sweetheart impact fee. We have now succeeded in tossing out ALL 5 of those puppets. (You can easily verify all that.)

IF we enact the new fire district, control of the fire district board during its formative first four years will be in the hands of un-elected supervisors. Those suprvisor (as a practical matter) will be designated by, or at least acceptable to, the Developer.

And after 2 to 4 years they will be elected by Villagers. I still trust them more than the County.

[ScottFenstermaker]

And after 2 to 4 years they will be elected by Villagers. I still trust them more than the County.
Were they initially all elected, I might not be opposed to the new district. But during the first four years, fire stations will be purchased from the Developer and long-term contracts will be entered into. How would you feel if one of the initial supervisors is disgraced-State Representative, million-dollar-a-year-Developer-employee Brett Hage, or maybe Brett Hage, Jr., who is a new Developer minion?

In any event, I would not vote yes without seeing a pro forma balance sheet for the new fire district, showing EXACTLY what assets (and any liabilities) will be transferred to the district and knowing what its initial financial plan is. Right now, we are being sold a pig in a poke. You would certainly never buy a business knowing as little about it as we know about the proposed fire district. The one thing that is fairly certain about it is that our taxes will increase.

[oldtimes]

Were they initially were all elected, I might not be opposed to the new district. But during the first four years, fire stations will be purchased from the Developer and long-term contracts will be entered into. How would you feel if one of the initial supervisors is disgraced-State Representative, million-dollar-a-year-Developer-employee Brett Hage, or maybe Brett Hage, Jr., who is a new Developer minion?

In any event, I would not vote yes without seeing a pro forma balance sheet for the new fire district, showing EXACTLY what assets (and any liabilities) will be transferred to the district and knowing what its initial financial plan is. Right now, we are being sold a pig in a poke. You would certainly never buy a business knowing as little about it as we know about the proposed fire district. The one thing that is fairly certain about it is that our taxes will increase.

All conjecture on your part. Taxes could go up either way and County could end up being disastrous as well. I voted yes for Villages control.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Cost information? You have been provided with this information based on current costs. The "hard cost" will can only be calculated when there is a track record....and this is what the current projection is based on. As for your statement you will get dumped off at a "hell hole"... you must have no idea how the emergency medical services work and that a person does have choices as to the facility they will be taken to.

Vote "YES" if you want to have a say in how the VPS operates and what and how they provide life saving service.

I would not trust most people to know how to operate an organization like the VPS or lifesaving services. The county has experience with it, people who are specially trained to handle it, know about it, know what to do, what not to do. Especially when it comes to handling the services for the entire county, not just a singular community in that county - no matter how many people live in that singular community.

There are thousands of people living in Sumter County, who do /not/ live in the Villages. They need to have reliable, trustworthy, efficient service too.

If you vote "yes" you'll be putting 100% of the authority and trust to do the RIGHT thing - not just what's best for you personally - in the hands of a real estate developer (and his family) who has no actual experience in handling medical or fire emergencies.

[john352]

Ok, yes, six properties benefit from the cap today. As property values rise, how many will benefit from the cap 10 years from today? And why should there be any cap at all? What is the rationale?

And yes, I know we are paying more than $124 today. I would like to see that portion of the funding eliminated entirely, and the cost be fully put onto the millage rate tax, with NO cap. I think that would be more fair.

All of the 3 story apartment buildings in the Lofts of Brownwood are on one parcel of land that is owned by the Developer. Therefore the Developer only pays $124 for all those buildings; the same $124 that you pay for your home.

[Bill14564]

All of the 3 story apartment buildings in the Lofts of Brownwood are on one parcel of land that is owned by the Developer. Therefore the Developer only pays $124 for all those buildings; the same $124 that you pay for your home.

And again, NO!

You are paying much more than $124 today. You are also paying at least 0.71mil on your taxable value for the VPSD. For me, the total comes to $330.

The Lofts of Brownwood are valued a bit higher than my home. The total for the Lofts of Brownwood comes to $19,500.

[Bill14564]

I would not trust most people to know how to operate an organization like the VPS or lifesaving services. The county has experience with it, people who are specially trained to handle it, know about it, know what to do, what not to do. Especially when it comes to handling the services for the entire county, not just a singular community in that county - no matter how many people live in that singular community.

There are thousands of people living in Sumter County, who do /not/ live in the Villages. They need to have reliable, trustworthy, efficient service too.

If you vote "yes" you'll be putting 100% of the authority and trust to do the RIGHT thing - not just what's best for you personally - in the hands of a real estate developer (and his family) who has no actual experience in handling medical or fire emergencies.

The only people in the county that have anything to do with the VPSD are the BoCC. They (mostly) do not have experience in emergency services and do not have special training. Their only role with the VPSD is to send money and leave it alone.

When the county was running the ambulance service it was a disaster. They fixed it by giving control to the fire companies - for us the VPSD.

If you vote "yes" the actual running of the VPSD will not change, it will still be with the VPSD. What changes is the funding for the VPSD will no longer depend on the BoCC and the tradeoffs they feel they need to make.

The Developer will be less in control of the VPSD under the IFD than they are now.

[Sandy and Ed]

Too many unanswered questions. I attended two of the “open” town hall type meetings at the rec centers and came away with the same unanswered questions. Unknown budget for the new bricks and mortar and equipment needed for the ever increasing new areas of the community and of course the higher concentration of people in single but multiple residence structures going up. Suggest a NO vote this time and let them come back to the table next time with more open and frank discussion and answers.

[Aloha1]

I live in Lake County and therefore don't have a dog in this fight.

Yes, you do have a "dog in this fight". The new IFD will cover ALL of The Villages, not just Sumter County. To allow a few curmudgeons to put ALL of us in Marion and Lake County at risk is not right. Their out right hatred of the "developer" affects us all. I prefer a system NOT controlled by one County board. Simply look at what these people gave us with the Sumter Commission 2 years ago. Vote YES for safety.

[Bilyclub]

Yes, you do have a "dog in this fight". The new IFD will cover ALL of The Villages, not just Sumter County. To allow a few curmudgeons to put ALL of us in Marion and Lake County at risk is not right. Their out right hatred of the "developer" affects us all. I prefer a system NOT controlled by one County board. Simply look at what these people gave us with the Sumter Commission 2 years ago. Vote YES for safety.


Good, are you volunteering to pitch in for the cost ? Sumter County TV Residents have been subsidizing more than just the Sumter County Fire Department.

[midiwiz]

[ The new fire district is being supported by the Developer (note the cap on taxes on commercial property),


I agree - VOTE NO

To fund the fire district, there will be a millage rate tax on property UP TO A MAX VALUE OF $10 MILLION.

Look at any shopping plaza (they are all owned by the Developer). Look at Brownwood Hotel, or the Waterfront Hotel (owned by the Developer). Look at the new Brownwood Medical building (owned by the Developer.) If they are not each worth $10 million now, they soon will be. But the $10 million cap will stay $10 million forever.

And each of those buildings pay the same $124 per rooftop that you are paying because they have just one rooftop. Those apartment buildings at Brownwood, with dozens of units under one rooftop, also pay just $124 per building.

Why should the Developer's contribution to the fire department be capped artificially low and we have to pay full amount? Those commercial buildings and tall buildings require special equipment (which means larger firehouses).
He should be paying on the full value of his buildings, which he does now on the County property tax.

The proposed funding system is not fair.

While I understand that just about any city you look at this is how it is funded, Sumter/wildwood have their own FD....

With that said - this is actually a "feature/amenity" and should be looked at by "the developer" as a marketing investment/write off.

[Steve]

The VHA Recommendation. The misleadingly named Villages Homeowners Advocates (better known as The VHA) has now come out in support of a Yes vote on the proposed fire district. This should surprise no one. The new fire district is being supported by the Developer (note the cap on taxes on commercial property), the Developer's appointed officials, and the Developer's newspaper.

The VHA's History. The VHA was founded in collaboration with the Developer, as VHA's own website kind of admits. Details on the ties between the VHA and the Developer can be found here: POA Accomplishments | POA of The Villages (https://www.poa4us.org/poa-accomplishments/) In any event, I have lived here for 15 years. During that time, the VHA has always served as mouthpiece for the Developer and as the Developer's minor league team--whose directors, if they behave and toe the Developer's line, can, with the Developer's backing, move up to the big league of the County Commission.

Developer Ownership of “The VHA” Trademark. Residents who have been paying attention to local politics understand the above facts. But what most residents (including members of The VHA) do not understand is that “The VHA” is actually a trademark of the Developer. You can't make this stuff up! Here is a link to the trademark office search page: Search trademark database | USPTO (https://www.uspto.gov/trademarks/search) Do a Basic Wordmark Search for “The VHA”.

The Platter of Platitudes in the VHA Voice. The VHA Voice serves up the usual platter of platitudes in its latest issue advocating a Yes vote on the fire district and glosses over all the reasons to vote NO. For example, it claims that “most residents will not see a significant increase in their tax bill.” What does “most” mean: 51%? What does “significant” mean? The truth is that there is no way of telling how much the initial unelected fire-district-board members (who, as a practical matter, will be designated by or acceptable to the Developer) will increase our taxes. One thing is clear, however, our taxes will increase! And for what???

Learn the Facts and Vote NO. One bit of advice that the VHA Voice does get right is: In researching the proposed fire district, “Always CONSIDER THE SOURCE”. By all means do so, and think about who owns The VHA trademark and the history of The VHA. Then read, or re-read, the October POA Bulletin ( https://www.poa4us.org/wp-content/uploads/simple-file-list/Bulletins/2022-10-Bulletin.pdf ), and, if you haven't already done so, reject the recommendation of the Developer's VHA and vote NO on the proposed fire district.

I also resent the fact that when I Early Voted at Laurel Manor last week firefighters were out in uniform campaigning for a "Yes" vote. I don't think public employees whose salaries are paid by the taxpayers should be campaigning for any ballot initiative from which they would financially benefit.

[Aloha1]

Good, are you volunteering to pitch in for the cost ? Sumter County TV Residents have been subsidizing more than just the Sumter County Fire Department.

We ALL pay for fire and safety. It's on our tax statement. You are not subsidizing anyone but your self.

[Aloha1]

So the original poster comes here with only 29 posts yet claims knowledge of a long time resident. I smell shenanigans. Could this be Advogado?

[Kenswing]

So the original poster comes here with only 29 posts yet claims knowledge of a long time resident. I smell shenanigans. Could this be Advogado?
Yes, it is Advogado. The mouthpiece for the POA.

[Mrs.Guy]

Yes, it is Advogado. The mouthpiece for the POA.

:sad: Not only a mouthpiece for the POA, but as I see it - A retired attorney who has a strong dislike for the developer (some would say hatred) who lets this dislike cloud his better judgment. The way we see it, he could care less about the IFD..... he just wants to think he is sticking it to the Developer and the hell with anyone else it effects.

In all fairness I will tell you, my husband is a retired Firefighter/EMT. He says we have a GREAT F.D. here! We fully support them.

IMHO the detractors need to keep their anti-big business political attitudes out of this argument.

[ScottFenstermaker]

So the original poster comes here with only 29 posts yet claims knowledge of a long time resident. I smell shenanigans. Could this be Advogado?

I have never attempted to hide my identity, but when I originally signed up on the site, everybody was using an alias, so I also did (Advogado). I recently decided that if I am going to state my opinion on a controversial issue, I should use my real name. I wish other members would also do so. I would improve the civility of the discussions. There are no shenanigans to smell. FYI, since you raised the topic, I have owned a house here for 15 years, and been a permanent resident since 2013.

[ScottFenstermaker]

Yes, it is Advogado. The mouthpiece for the POA.
See my explanation below. FYI: my only affiliation with the POA is that I am a member.

[ScottFenstermaker]

:sad: Not only a mouthpiece for the POA, but as I see it - A retired attorney who has a strong dislike for the developer (some would say hatred) who lets this dislike cloud his better judgment. The way we see it, he could care less about the IFD..... he just wants to think he is sticking it to the Developer and the hell with anyone else it effects.

In all fairness I will tell you, my husband is a retired Firefighter/EMT. He says we have a GREAT F.D. here! We fully support them.

IMHO the detractors need to keep their anti-big business political attitudes out of this argument.
The only thing I hate is a plutocracy in which local government represents the interests of only one resident. For example: Do you understand that the Developer has our local state representative, Brett Hage, on his payroll for almost a million dollars a year for part time work? But neither you nor I are the issue here. If your husband thinks that the firefighters are doing a great job under the present system, why change it by voting yes, and thereby buying a pig in a poke and increasing our taxes.

[ScottFenstermaker]

:sad: Not only a mouthpiece for the POA, but as I see it - A retired attorney who has a strong dislike for the developer (some would say hatred) who lets this dislike cloud his better judgment. The way we see it, he could care less about the IFD..... he just wants to think he is sticking it to the Developer and the hell with anyone else it effects.

In all fairness I will tell you, my husband is a retired Firefighter/EMT. He says we have a GREAT F.D. here! We fully support them.

IMHO the detractors need to keep their anti-big business political attitudes out of this argument.
The only thing I hate is a plutocracy in which local government represents the interests of only one resident. For example: Do you understand that the Developer has our local state representative, Brett Hage, on his payroll for almost a million dollars a year for part time work? But neither you nor I are the issue here. If your husband thinks that the firefighters are doing a great job under the present system, why change it by voting yes, and thereby buying a pig in a poke and increasing our taxes.

[ScottFenstermaker]

I also resent the fact that when I Early Voted at Laurel Manor last week firefighters were out in uniform campaigning for a "Yes" vote. I don't think public employees whose salaries are paid by the taxpayers should be campaigning for any ballot initiative from which they would financially benefit.
I hope that they were their on their own (not the taxpayers') time.

[ScottFenstermaker]

Too many unanswered questions. I attended two of the “open” town hall type meetings at the rec centers and came away with the same unanswered questions. Unknown budget for the new bricks and mortar and equipment needed for the ever increasing new areas of the community and of course the higher concentration of people in single but multiple residence structures going up. Suggest a NO vote this time and let them come back to the table next time with more open and frank discussion and answers.
That is my point. Think about a Yes vote as if you were buying a business. Would you buy a business knowing as little about it as we are being told about the new fire district?

[Bilyclub]

We ALL pay for fire and safety. It's on our tax statement. You are not subsidizing anyone but your self.

If you're in Marion or Lake County all you pay towards The Villages Fire Department is $124. That's why you can't vote on the Independent Fire District. Oh, forgot about the 5 bucks for the stupid smoke alarm battery changers.

[Bill14564]

If you're in Marion or Lake County all you pay towards The Villages Fire Department is $124. That's why you can't vote on the Independent Fire District. Oh, forgot about the 5 bucks for the stupid smoke alarm battery changers.

The reason residents of Lake and Marion county can't vote for the IFD is that they are not within the boundaries of the IFD. The results of the IFD vote do not directly affect them.

There are interlocal agreements between those counties and the VCCDD (?) today and there will be agreements between those counties and the IFD if it passes.

[Mrs.Guy]

If you're in Marion or Lake County all you pay towards The Villages Fire Department is $124. That's why you can't vote on the Independent Fire District. Oh, forgot about the 5 bucks for the stupid smoke alarm battery changers.

chilout You got me confused on this one...... why do you think the Villages Public Safety Dept. employees that change smoke detector batteries for some of our older residents are STUPID?

Public Safety Smoke Detector Program (https://www.districtgov.org/departments/Public-Safety/smoke-detector-program.aspx)

[SUENRAN]

And vote NO if you realize that the present system is working and you don't want to buy a pig in a poke that will increase your taxes.

The system, until purchase of ambulances for The Villages wasn't working. I guess you missed my comment about up to 2 hour wait times prior The Villages PSD purchasing ambulances. I for one am happy to pay a little extra for a quick response if I'm having a heart attack. Apparently you are willing to wait. VOTE "YES"!

[SUENRAN]

Keep in mind that when you get dumped at the ER of the Villages Hospital on El Camino Real you could very well wind up waiting 12 hours, only to finally get misdiagnosed and sent home to die. That's what happened to me, fortunately my wife got into her car and drove two days non stop to come pick me up and bring me to a real hospital in Gainesville, with very little time to spare.

I am all for quicker response time, assuming there is a decent and competent place to be brought to, but what difference does it make if you wind up at the Villages Hospital?

And that is the reason you, the PATIENT, have a choice about which hospital you wish to be transported to~

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Yes, you do have a "dog in this fight". The new IFD will cover ALL of The Villages, not just Sumter County. To allow a few curmudgeons to put ALL of us in Marion and Lake County at risk is not right. Their out right hatred of the "developer" affects us all. I prefer a system NOT controlled by one County board. Simply look at what these people gave us with the Sumter Commission 2 years ago. Vote YES for safety.

I don't have a dog in this fight, because I don't get to vote on it. Y'all vote however you feel will serve the three counties - including non-villagers - best. Or vote however you think it'll serve yourself best, and to hell with everyone who doesn't live under the Villages bubble because their needs don't matter.

I offer my opinion. But I have no actual authority to back my opinion up with a vote. You do.

[SUENRAN]

I would not trust most people to know how to operate an organization like the VPS or lifesaving services. The county has experience with it, people who are specially trained to handle it, know about it, know what to do, what not to do. Especially when it comes to handling the services for the entire county, not just a singular community in that county - no matter how many people live in that singular community.

There are thousands of people living in Sumter County, who do /not/ live in the Villages. They need to have reliable, trustworthy, efficient service too.

If you vote "yes" you'll be putting 100% of the authority and trust to do the RIGHT thing - not just what's best for you personally - in the hands of a real estate developer (and his family) who has no actual experience in handling medical or fire emergencies.

And that is the reason there will be a board supervising the VPS agency. After 2 years the "elected" (versus appointed) members (majority of the board) will be selected by voters. I also believe we have a strong Chief (Chief Cain) that does an outstanding job of provided awesome and timely delivery of emergency (and non-emergency) services to the residents.

Also, apparently the county did NOT have enough experience in running a fire and EMS department...or we wouldn't be having the conversation. Once again I will point out extremely long time delays for the AMR ambulances the county provided. I would also be willing to believe there are talented people in The Villages that have the ability and knowledge to manage the new VPS department.

Your point about the remainder of the county needing reliable and timely service is also an important issue. However is it my responsibility to pay for the fire/EMS services to the rest of the county? If one were to follow recommended staffing standards produced by the National Fire Protection Agency (NFPA) you would see that response times should be 8 minutes or less 90% of the time. Wonder how many fire stations would be needed to be built and constructed to meet this standard in the remainder of the county? You willing to pay for that? I'm very pleased with the service delivery the VPS delivers in a TIMELY way.

[SUENRAN]

While I understand that just about any city you look at this is how it is funded, Sumter/wildwood have their own FD....

With that said - this is actually a "feature/amenity" and should be looked at by "the developer" as a marketing investment/write off.

Maybe you should stop by the Wildwood Fire Department and read what the name on the side of the fire truck is.....It's not "Wildwood" it's "SUMTER".

[Altavia]

That is my point. Think about a Yes vote as if you were buying a business. Would you buy a business knowing as little about it as we are being told about the new fire district?

If buying a business, I look for the most competent and experienced management team.

[kaniess]

A Yes vote ensures that Sumter county won’t be able to combine The Villages fire department with the rural department serving the rest of the county. Those who always want to stick it to the Developer want to stick it to the Villages residents with potentially inferior fire and ambulance service.

[Altavia]

And vote NO if you realize that the present system is working and you don't want to buy a pig in a poke that will increase your taxes.

So is the million dollar sidewalk under construction for close to a year now along 44 to connect two trailer parks roughly a mile apart an example for how the FD will be managed under Sumter County Management?

[Bogie Shooter]

If you're in Marion or Lake County all you pay towards The Villages Fire Department is $124. That's why you can't vote on the Independent Fire District. Oh, forgot about the 5 bucks for the stupid smoke alarm battery changers.

chilout You got me confused on this one...... why do you think the Villages Public Safety Dept. employees that change smoke detector batteries for some of our older residents are STUPID?

Public Safety Smoke Detector Program (https://www.districtgov.org/departments/Public-Safety/smoke-detector-program.aspx)

Hey Bily, where does the 5 bucks idea come from??:evil6:

[LuvtheVillages]

So is the million dollar sidewalk under construction for close to a year now along 44 to connect two trail parks a mile apart an example for how thre FD will be managed under Sumter County Management?

That sidewalk was not built by Sumter County or its management.

It was approved by our Project Wide Committee and managed by the Villages management team. Somehow that team could not keep the price from increasing multiple times.

[Bill14564]

That sidewalk was not built by Sumter County or its management.

It was approved by our Project Wide Committee and managed by the Villages management team. Somehow that team could not keep the price from increasing multiple times.

Are you sure that's the same sidewalk? I am not aware of any sidewalk along 44 near the Villages and the recently opened path is not a mile long

[jump4]

I would not trust most people to know how to operate an organization like the VPS or lifesaving services. The county has experience with it, people who are specially trained to handle it, know about it, know what to do, what not to do. Especially when it comes to handling the services for the entire county, not just a singular community in that county - no matter how many people live in that singular community.

There are thousands of people living in Sumter County, who do /not/ live in the Villages. They need to have reliable, trustworthy, efficient service too.

If you vote "yes" you'll be putting 100% of the authority and trust to do the RIGHT thing - not just what's best for you personally - in the hands of a real estate developer (and his family) who has no actual experience in handling medical or fire emergencies.


Amen!:BigApplause:

[Altavia]

That sidewalk was not built by Sumter County or its management.

It was approved by our Project Wide Committee and managed by the Villages management team. Somehow that team could not keep the price from increasing multiple times.

No, the sidewalk in work from roughly Village Dr @ Parkwood Oaks Mobile Homes to past Heritage Blvd.

Essentially across from Brownwood Hotel and Brownwood.

I've not been able to find any info on that project.

[twoplanekid]

"A Yes vote ensures that Sumter county won’t be able to combine The Villages fire department with the rural department serving the rest of the county. Those who always want to stick it to the Developer want to stick it to the Villages residents with potentially inferior fire and ambulance service."

"The system, until purchase of ambulances for The Villages wasn't working. I guess you missed my comment about up to 2 hour wait times prior The Villages PSD purchasing ambulances. I for one am happy to pay a little extra for a quick response if I'm having a heart attack. Apparently you are willing to wait. VOTE "YES"! "

In my opinion these two reason to vote YES are not valid in that the ambulance service has now been transferred to the Villages so no new changes will be made in that service and the current fire departments in the Villages will not be changed. It's my understand that who collects what will change. Will Villagers on the current county board be more or less responsive to Villages than a newly created Fire District board? Again, it's more about funding issues and not services as I don't believe that the current stations will be expanded. New fire stations in new areas will be added but not in existing areas.

I am a lifetime member of VHA and they do some great things. I always thought it strange that this club had a special mail box at every mail station and that the Developer would only hold a meeting once a year with residents at a VHA special meeting. I attended several in the past and it was fun.

[Papa_lecki]

"I for one am happy to pay a little extra for a quick response if I'm having a heart attack. Apparently you are willing to wait. VOTE "YES"! "
This is what I dont get for those opposed to the fire district, it MAY cost more, but no more than an extra $50, $100 or $150?.
The county got us 60 to 90 minute ambulance response time.
I am gladly willing to pay extra if me, my neighbor, my wife, my friend was having a stroke or heart attack; and the ambulance is here in 5 or 10 minutes.

[oldtimes]

The only thing I hate is a plutocracy in which local government represents the interests of only one resident. For example: Do you understand that the Developer has our local state representative, Brett Hage, on his payroll for almost a million dollars a year for part time work? But neither you nor I are the issue here. If your husband thinks that the firefighters are doing a great job under the present system, why change it by voting yes, and thereby buying a pig in a poke and increasing our taxes.

///

[Villages Kahuna]

I’m glad I voted NO!

I also voted against the reappointment of all the Florida Supreme Court judges. Time for a change!

[Goldwingnut]

So is the million dollar sidewalk under construction for close to a year now along 44 to connect two trailer parks roughly a mile apart an example for how the FD will be managed under Sumter County Management?

The sidewalk being installed along SR44 is being done by the State, with State funds, Sumter County had zero say in the work and has zero cost in the project. The project also has zero value to almost everyone in the county.

[kansasr]

You mean like the new million dollar walkway to nowhere The Villages has installed at Lake Miona Rec????

[Papa_lecki]

You mean like the new million dollar walkway to nowhere The Villages has installed at Lake Miona Rec????

I thought it was a nature walking trail, which are being installed in many places south of 44. I through it was a recreation amenity.

[dewilson58]

Beam you up Scotty, please.

:1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Bogie Shooter]

So is the million dollar sidewalk under construction for close to a year now along 44 to connect two trailer parks roughly a mile apart an example for how the FD will be managed under Sumter County Management?

The sidewalk being installed along SR44 is being done by the State, with State funds, Sumter County had zero say in the work and has zero cost in the project. The project also has zero value to almost everyone in the county.

:boom:

[Oldragbagger]

You mean like the new million dollar walkway to nowhere The Villages has installed at Lake Miona Rec????

Those walkways to nowhere are wonderful walking paths. We have quite a few of them in the southern section. They are beautiful and and they are used a lot. I would have thought everyone would have appreciated them decreasing walking traffic on the streets and MMPs.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

The sidewalk being installed along SR44 is being done by the State, with State funds, Sumter County had zero say in the work and has zero cost in the project. The project also has zero value to almost everyone in the county.

Perhaps that is true. But accidents due to continual traffic pattern shifts imposed by the project has cost Lake County and Sumter County more police and emergency personnel. And yes - that is being paid for by the by the counties.

[tophcfa]

You mean like the new million dollar walkway to nowhere The Villages has installed at Lake Miona Rec????

It’s worthless, no dogs allowed.

[dewilson58]

Perhaps that is true. But accidents due to continual traffic pattern shifts imposed by the project has cost Lake County and Sumter County more police and emergency personnel. And yes - that is being paid for by the by the counties.

provide cost data to support your claim

"police" cost per population is less than average for sumter county per police scorecard

[Altavia]

:boom:

Yes, State management of construction projects is as poor as Sumter County, maybe more so.

[Bill14564]

Perhaps that is true. But accidents due to continual traffic pattern shifts imposed by the project has cost Lake County and Sumter County more police and emergency personnel. And yes - that is being paid for by the by the counties.

How has a sidewalk project near Brownwood cost Lake County anything at all?

[Bill14564]

It’s worthless, no dogs allowed.

I think you are confusing "walking path / nature trail" with "dog park."

[Mrs.Guy]

It’s worthless, no dogs allowed.

;) Kinda like "golf courses" and "swimming pools" and we know you don't think they are worthless. :rolleyes:
It is an amenity and pets aren't allowed at a lot of amenities. We do have 7 dog parks.:coolsmiley:

[Kenswing]

Looks like it’s going to be No. the No vote won by about 2,000 votes.

[ScottFenstermaker]

The VHA is another tool in the developer's sales/management kit. As I understand it the VHA started in 1990 or 1991 in response to the Property Owners' Association's looking out for the interest of homeowners versus those of the developer. I cannot recall the VHA ever taking action on behalf of homeowners against the interests of the developer. The developer settled a lawsuit with the POA for $40,000,000 or so. Villages Settles Lawsuit | POA of The Villages (https://www.poa4us.org/villages-settles-lawsuit/)

Here is what the POA website has to say about the formation of the VHA:

"In 1991, an unprecedented attempt was made to take over the POA when a slate of candidates was presented opposed to the continuation of the POA efforts in behalf of residents. The residents involved in the attempted takeover became members of the POA for the two months of November and December, and their dues were paid for by the Developer. These candidates were overwhelmingly defeated by a vote of residents. Some of the residents who were involved in the take-over attempt then formed the Developer supported Villages Homeowners Association (VHA)."

[ScottFenstermaker]

Now that the election is over, it is interesting to note that a majority of residents have apparently awoken to the fact that the Villages Homeowners Advocates is really the Villages Developer's Advocates. The voters followed the recommendation of the POA, not the recommendation of the VHA (and of the Developer's appointed officials and his newspaper) and voted down the fire district.

Now, as the POA and the other opponents of the fire district predicted: The world has not ended. Excellent fire, EMS, and ambulance services continue to be provided, and they will continue to be provided.

[golfing eagles]

Now that the election is over, it is interesting to note that a majority of residents have apparently awoken to the fact that the Villages Homeowners Advocates is really the Villages Developer's Advocates. The voters followed the recommendation of the POA, not the recommendation of the VHA (and of the Developer's appointed officials and his newspaper) and voted down the fire district.

Now, as the POA and the other opponents of the fire district predicted: The world has not ended. Excellent fire, EMS, and ambulance services continue to be provided, and they will continue to provided.

Let's hope so. But I hope everyone realizes that it remains up to the county, and not The Villages; we voted local control down

[Bill14564]

Now that the election is over, it is interesting to note that a majority of residents have apparently awoken to the fact that the Villages Homeowners Advocates is really the Villages Developer's Advocates. The voters followed the recommendation of the POA, not the recommendation of the VHA (and of the Developer's appointed officials and his newspaper) and voted down the fire district.

Now, as the POA and the other opponents of the fire district predicted: The world has not ended. Excellent fire, EMS, and ambulance services continue to be provided, and they will continue to be provided.

If the POA's goal was the fire service on 11/17 then they are severely shortsighted. Did you and they *really* think the vote would change ANYTHING prior to 10/1/2023 (11 months from now)?

I said before that a vote against the IFD was a vote to cut off your nose to spite your face. Now I see that some of those arguing against the IFD can't see past the end of their noses anyway.

Let's see what you have to say over the next 11 months as the "Developer's board" in charge of the VPSD and the "Developer's puppets" responsible for funding the VPSD go to work knowing that the VPSD is theirs for the foreseeable future.

[Mrs.Guy]

Now that the election is over, it is interesting to note that a majority of residents have apparently awoken to the fact that the Villages Homeowners Advocates is really the Villages Developer's Advocates. The voters followed the recommendation of the POA, not the recommendation of the VHA (and of the Developer's appointed officials and his newspaper) and voted down the fire district.

Now, as the POA and the other opponents of the fire district predicted: The world has not ended. Excellent fire, EMS, and ambulance services continue to be provided, and they will continue to be provided.


Yes, the PROFESSIONAL FIREFIGHTERS of the VPSD will still be there for you..... even though you you were NOT there for them!:ohdear:

[ScottFenstermaker]

If the POA's goal was the fire service on 11/17 then they are severely shortsighted. Did you and they *really* think the vote would change ANYTHING prior to 10/1/2023 (11 months from now)?

I said before that a vote against the IFD was a vote to cut off your nose to spite your face. Now I see that some of those arguing against the IFD can't see past the end of their noses anyway.

Let's see what you have to say over the next 11 months as the "Developer's board" in charge of the VPSD and the "Developer's puppets" responsible for funding the VPSD go to work knowing that the VPSD is theirs for the foreseeable future.

I agree. The future is an unknown. But with respect to the proposed fire district, the voters were being sold a pig in a poke to correct a non-existent problem. A majority of us said, "We are not buying."

[Aloha1]

I agree. The future is an unknown. But with respect to the proposed fire district, the voters were being sold a pig in a poke to correct a non-existent problem. A majority of us said, "We are not buying."

The "majority" were mislead by a few individuals. You know who you are and you should be ashamed. Interesting that the disgraced former Sumter City Commissioner you foisted on the public has now been offered a position on the POA Board. Wonder how that's gonna work out from prison.

[Dond1959]

The POA is very strategic and is looking 4 steps ahead of everyone else. They also have numerous voices on social media that consistently pound the same message. They got ESM on the board in 2020 and two more candidates in 2022. You have to respect their organization and effort. They got dems elected to the commission in a heavily republican county. Bravo for them.

But why were they really against the IFD? My personal belief is they plan to push, through their supported elected commissioners, a new Fire Impact tax. They will call it a fee, but we all know these fees (taxes) are pushed down to consumers. If the IFD had passed, they wouldn’t have been able to push this new tax. Don’t be surprised to see this proposed in 2023 from one or both of their supported commissioners. The key will be Estep, is he still in POA’s corner or has he decided to become more independent. It will be interesting to see in the next year.

[NoMo50]

Interesting that the disgraced former Sumter City Commissioner you foisted on the public has now been offered a position on the POA Board. Wonder how that's gonna work out from prison.

He won't be going to prison (although he should). The former commissioner you speak of took a deal, and testified against his co-defendant. Part of his deal was that all charges against him were dropped. So...one former commissioner is now a free man, while the other is a convicted felon.

[Happydaz]

The POA is very strategic and is looking 4 steps ahead of everyone else. They also have numerous voices on social media that consistently pound the same message. They got ESM on the board in 2020 and two more candidates in 2022. You have to respect their organization and effort. They got dems elected to the commission in a heavily republican county. Bravo for them.

But why were they really against the IFD? My personal belief is they plan to push, through their supported elected commissioners, a new Fire Impact tax. They will call it a fee, but we all know these fees (taxes) are pushed down to consumers. If the IFD had passed, they wouldn’t have been able to push this new tax. Don’t be surprised to see this proposed in 2023 from one or both of their supported commissioners. The key will be Estep, is he still in POA’s corner or has he decided to become more independent. It will be interesting to see in the next year.

Orlando has a fire impact fee in place. Many other areas in Florida charge developers a fire impact fee. People make it sound like this is some kind of novel, special tax that people are dreaming up but it is a fee charged in many communities. The reason they charge these fees is to have the developers share in financing all the new fire stations and firemen they need to hire to provide service to all the new homes and buildings these developers are building.

[Happydaz]

Some examples of Florida Counties that have one time fire impact fees on new construction are Orange, Hillsborough, Walton, Citrus, Osceola, Volusia, Lee, Collier, Santa Rosa and Lake Counties.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Let's hope so. But I hope everyone realizes that it remains up to the county, and not The Villages; we voted local control down

The majority of Sumter County's population is Villages residents. The majority of Villages residents are eligible to vote in Sumter County.

Anything the county wants, if it needs to be voted on, will happen or not happen if the Villages residents want or don't want it.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Orlando has a fire impact fee in place. Many other areas in Florida charge developers a fire impact fee. People make it sound like this is some kind of novel, special tax that people are dreaming up but it is a fee charged in many communities. The reason they charge these fees is to have the developers share in financing all the new fire stations and firemen they need to hire to provide service to all the new homes and buildings these developers are building.

And the new buyers of new properties reimburse the developer. The developer never ACTUALLY has to pay a dime.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Yes, the PROFESSIONAL FIREFIGHTERS of the VPSD will still be there for you..... even though you you were NOT there for them!:ohdear:

If he owns the property he's living in, or owns other property in the Villages, then yes he is there for the firefighters. As you say - they are professional. That means they get paid. They're paid through our tax dollars.

[Happydaz]

And the new buyers of new properties reimburse the developer. The developer never ACTUALLY has to pay a dime.

The developer also in the end pays not a dime for the land, construction materials, plumbing, electricity, etc., that go into building new homes and commercial buildings. These developments do have an impact on services and infrastructure like roads in a community and that is why many counties have impact fees. Why should existing residents pay for all the improvements needed because of these new buildings? These one time impact fees are helpful in providing a community with some of the money they need to build new schools, roads, fire stations, purchase new fire trucks, hire more policemen and firemen, etc..

[Altavia]

Did The Developer or the County pay for existing firehouses?

[Dond1959]

And the new buyers of new properties reimburse the developer. The developer never ACTUALLY has to pay a dime.

Actually that is for residential development. For commercial development it will be passed onto the consumer through higher prices on goods and services. If the taxes are too high then maybe a commercial development is not done which will make the current crowding in restaurants, stores, golf courses, and other commercial properties seem like nothing. And before you say it, the Villages developer is not the only one developing commercial properties, look at 466a.

Unfortunately there is no free lunch, someone has to pay.

[Goldwingnut]

Did The Developer or the County pay for existing firehouses?

The developer built and paid for them and then either deeded them over to the VCCDD (with the stipulation that they always be fire stations or they are returned to the developer) or they lease the property to the VPSD (a much more palatable cost structure than building or buying).

[Aloha1]

He won't be going to prison (although he should). The former commissioner you speak of took a deal, and testified against his co-defendant. Part of his deal was that all charges against him were dropped. So...one former commissioner is now a free man, while the other is a convicted felon.

What I said. One convicted, the other pleaded guilty. Both were brought to us by the OP.

[tuccillo]

No, he didn't plead guilty. He made a deal for immunity from prosecution. There are conditions that he must abide by for the immunity. If he fails to abide by those conditions then he will have implicitly plead guilty. So, he just needs to follow the rules for a designated amount of time and he is clear.

What I said. One convicted, the other pleaded guilty. Both were brought to us by the OP.

[Fltpkr]

Which the county could move to other areas of the county if they are in control.

The more I read about government in The Villages, the less I understand about how it operates and who is responsible for what.

[Bogie Shooter]

The more I read about government in The Villages, the less I understand about how it operates and who is responsible for what.

Go get educated!

Community Development District Orientation

District Orientation

You are invited to attend our “Introduction to your Special Purpose Local Government” informational program. You will learn how the districts operate and learn other important community information about the people, services, and other supporting entities that help make The Villages a premier community.

No sign-ups or fees are required for this presentation. This valuable program is held on the second and fourth Thursday of the month at 10:00 AM at the District office located at 984 Old Mill Run in Lake Sumter Landing.

For additional information, please contact the District Customer Service Center at 352-753-4508.

[ScottFenstermaker]

The developer built and paid for them and then either deeded them over to the VCCDD (with the stipulation that they always be fire stations or they are returned to the developer) or they lease the property to the VPSD (a much more palatable cost structure than building or buying).

Serious questions: Do you know how much the Developer charged the VCCDD for the stations he sold to that District (i.e., to the Villages Public Safety Department) and how much the Developer is charging for the station he rents to the VPSD?

Those amounts are difficult, if not impossible, for the public to ascertain. However, we, as taxpayers end up paying up paying them through our county taxes. Do you know where those amounts can be found and where the underlying deeds/lease agreement are recorded?

[collie1228]

No, he didn't plead guilty. He made a deal for immunity from prosecution. There are conditions that he must abide by for the immunity. If he fails to abide by those conditions then he will have implicitly plead guilty. So, he just needs to follow the rules for a designated amount of time and he is clear.

Are you sure he didn't plead out? I'm no lawyer and I don't play one on TV, but I do know that in many cases, prosecutors won't offer "a deal" unless the subject agrees to plead guilty as a condition of the deal.

[tuccillo]

My comments were based on what I read in The Daily Sun. What was printed was that the deal involved resigning his county seat and testifying at Miller’s trial, plus a bunch of other restrictions.

Are you sure he didn't plead out? I'm no lawyer and I don't play one on TV, but I do know that in many cases, prosecutors won't offer "a deal" unless the subject agrees to plead guilty as a condition of the deal.

[ScottFenstermaker]

And the new buyers of new properties reimburse the developer. The developer never ACTUALLY has to pay a dime.
You apparently have never run a business. You assume that a business can simply pass its costs on to it customers. If that were so, no business would ever go bankrupt.

If the Developer's sweetheart impact fee (40% of the cost of his county roads and 0% of the cost of his other county infrastructure) were increased, he would TRY to pass the costs on to home buyers and the price of new houses and commercial property would increase somewhat. However, unless his finance department has left money on the table in establishing the current prices, the Developer already has priced his houses at a level to maximize profits: markup per house times number of houses sold.

Any increase in price would reduce profits by reducing the number of houses sold. Therefore, the probable result of a cost increase from reasonable impact fees would be: a profit hit for the Developer and somewhat higher prices on new houses. That outcome is fine for us, the present residents, since the cost of growth would then be paid by the persons causing the cost (the Developer and new buyers), not by us (the current residents). As a result of the Developer's sweetheart impact fee, we are currently subsidizing the Developer's business.

Why do you think the Developer paid our State Representative Hage almost a million dollars after Hage sponsored legislation protecting the Developer's sweetheart impact fee???

[Stu from NYC]

You apparently have never run a business. You assume that a business can simply pass its costs on to it customers. If that were so, no business would ever go bankrupt.

If the Developer's sweetheart impact fee (40% of the cost of his county roads and 0% of the cost of his other county infrastructure) were increased, he would TRY to pass the costs on to home buyers and the price of new houses and commercial property would increase somewhat. However, unless his finance department has left money on the table in establishing the current prices, the Developer already has priced his houses at a level to maximize profits: markup per house times number of houses sold.

Any increase in price would reduce profits by reducing the number of houses sold. Therefore, the probable result of a cost increase from reasonable impact fees would be: a profit hit for the Developer and somewhat higher prices on new houses. That outcome is fine for us, the present residents, since the cost of growth would then be paid by the persons causing the cost (the Developer and new buyers), not by us (the current residents). As a result of the Developer's sweetheart impact fee, we are currently subsidizing the Developer's business.

Why do you think the Developer paid our State Representative Hage almost a million dollars after Hage sponsored legislation protecting the Developer's sweetheart impact fee???

Hage is an employee of the developer so thought he sponsored the legislation as part of his salary. How do you know he was slipped an additional million?

Either way new meaning to conflict of interest.

[manaboutown]

Hage was paid $925,096 by the developer in 2021 versus the $350,000 he was paid the prior year according to this.

Ground News - Rep. Brett Hage’s disclosure form shows major pay hike from The Villages (https://ground.news/article/rep-brett-hages-disclosure-form-shows-major-pay-hike-from-the-villages)

[ScottFenstermaker]

Hage is an employee of the developer so thought he sponsored the legislation as part of his salary. How do you know he was slipped an additional million?

Either way new meaning to conflict of interest.

The payment is actually a matter of public record. http://public.ethics.state.fl.us/Forms/2021/228403-Form6.pdf Public awareness of it is obviously the reason that Hage and the Developer realized that Hage had no chance of being re-elected and Hage didn't run for re-election.

[Stu from NYC]

Hage was paid $925,096 by the developer in 2021 versus the $350,000 he was paid the prior year according to this.

Ground News - Rep. Brett Hage’s disclosure form shows major pay hike from The Villages (https://ground.news/article/rep-brett-hages-disclosure-form-shows-major-pay-hike-from-the-villages)

Makes one wonder what he is being paid in 2022.

[manaboutown]

The value of Hage's legislative initiative is Huge. A ballpark figure for a single year might be the number of new houses sold by the developer times the cost other developers pay in impact fees per house less the amount the developer pays per house.
$/year = Housessold X (Normal ImpactFee - TV ImpactFee). This is all money for the developer's purse - before income taxes.

Of course this means current residents and other taxpayers are picking up much of the tab for new development infrastructure.

[Altavia]

The value of Hage's legislative initiative is Huge. A ballpark figure for a single year might be the number of new houses sold by the developer times the cost other developers pay in impact fees per house less the amount the developer pays per house.
$/year = Housessold X (Normal ImpactFee - TV ImpactFee). This is all money for the developer's purse - before income taxes.

Of course this means current residents and other taxpayers are picking up much of the tab for new development infrastructure.

But the new development is increasing the tax base each year.

At 5,000 new homes with an average sale price of 450K is over two billion dollars last year.

Homes built ten years ago have half the real estate tax. So the new home owners are substantially carrying the cost.

[Stu from NYC]

But the new development is increasing the tax base each year.

At 5,000 new homes with an average sale price of 450K is over two billion dollars last year.

Homes built ten years ago have half the real estate tax. So the new home owners are substantially carrying the cost.

There is a right way to do business and more and more ethics are going out the window. People run for office and they should at least give lip service to be working for we the people.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

There is a right way to do business and more and more ethics are going out the window. People run for office and they should at least give lip service to be working for we the people.

Accountability? Here? In Florida? :a20:

[Bilyclub]

If he owns the property he's living in, or owns other property in the Villages, then yes he is there for the firefighters. As you say - they are professional. That means they get paid. They're paid through our tax dollars.

Yeah, they are a rare bird in the VCDD machine. Full time employees and unionized.

[graciegirl]

There is a right way to do business and more and more ethics are going out the window. People run for office and they should at least give lip service to be working for we the people.

This thread is based on anti-developer sentiment, which is not held by the HUGE majority of people who live here. This place is run VERY WELL and no one is forced to buy here or to remain living here.

I hate it when I see groups of people trying to change something that is perfectly good for the sake of their "theory of life" or how they vote.

The VHA is a good organization. The VHA is a helpful organization and again, no one is forced to join it. I have lived here in The Villages for sixteen years and went to one meeting and it was very nice and vanilla. I do not support the POA at all.

When I needed a walker for a short spell, I learned the VHA has them and wheel chairs available at no charge. The VHA also have workshops for those who are struggling with the computer and many other helpful things.

I don't know the developer, but enjoy going to the "State of the Villages" gathering and seeing Mark Morse and family. They are just nice people it seems to me and hardworking. Most people would have stopped working long ago. They have a huge fortune that could support them all for several lifetimes. I am guessing they are proud of this place and wish to continue to support the economy that it depends on. They are very "not showoffy", the Morse family. I like what little I see.

The same people continue to voice their negative voices on this forum, year after year after year.

Please take a breath and rest.

[Stu from NYC]

This thread is based on anti-developer sentiment, which is not held by the HUGE majority of people who live here. This place is run VERY WELL and no one is forced to buy here or to remain living here.

I hate it when I see groups of people trying to change something that is perfectly good for the sake of their "theory of life" or how they vote.

The VHA is a good organization. The VHA is a helpful organization and again, no one is forced to join it. I have lived here in The Villages for sixteen years and went to one meeting and it was very nice and vanilla. I do not support the POA at all.

When I needed a walker for a short spell, I learned the VHA has them and wheel chairs available at no charge. The VHA also have workshops for those who are struggling with the computer and many other helpful things.

I don't know the developer, but enjoy going to the "State of the Villages" gathering and seeing Mark Morse and family. They are just nice people it seems to me and hardworking. Most people would have stopped working long ago. They have a huge fortune that could support them all for several lifetimes. I am guessing they are proud of this place and wish to continue to support the economy that it depends on. They are very "not showoffy", the Morse family. I like what little I see.

The same people continue to voice their negative voices on this forum, year after year after year.

Please take a breath and rest.

This is a wonderful place to live and have greatly enjoyed our three years here. Well the 18 months we were home during covid not so much but still happy to be here.

I think the developer has done a great job building this place over three generations but do think the family has way to much control over local politics. I am certainly not anti developer but call them as I see them.

[eyc234]

This is a wonderful place to live and have greatly enjoyed our three years here. Well the 18 months we were home during covid not so much but still happy to be here.

I think the developer has done a great job building this place over three generations but do think the family has way to much control over local politics. I am certainly not anti developer but call them as I see them.

:shrug: So in what city or country in the world do people with lots of money not have influence/control of politics. NYC had Trump and Bloomberg, Dallas had Perot, Ft Worth has the Bass family, Gates in Washington you could go on and on. Money, influence and power all go hand in hand. Strange how US Congress members go in not rich and come out with nothing to worry about for the rest of their lives. That is the way it is and can not see a way to stop it. Influence can be good and bad, can help public but hurt the public. There is a balancing act that must be done and due diligence.

[ScottFenstermaker]

The value of Hage's legislative initiative is Huge. A ballpark figure for a single year might be the number of new houses sold by the developer times the cost other developers pay in impact fees per house less the amount the developer pays per house.
$/year = Housessold X (Normal ImpactFee - TV ImpactFee). This is all money for the developer's purse - before income taxes.

Of course this means current residents and other taxpayers are picking up much of the tab for new development infrastructure.

You are absolutely correct.

FYI: Compared to Collier County, the value of Hage's legislation to the Developer is over a billion dollars (at the expense of current residents). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQiReUkH_V4

One of the few good developments regarding this issue is that every Developer-puppet County Commissioner who voted for the 2019 county tax increase to preserve the Developer's sweetheart impact fee has now been tossed out of office-- as has State Representative Hage, who got almost a million dollars from the Developer after sponsoring the legislation tailored to protect the Developer's sweetheart impact fee.

[twoplanekid]

I prefer not to name anyone as pro or anti developer as we are all Villagers living our dream and expressing our own wishes for the changes that are always inevitable. Everyone should be welcomed to live here and encouraged to make their desires known. Although starting my 5 year serving on the NSCUDD board, I am still learning how this community works and enjoy serving our customers to the best of my ability.

[graciegirl]

You are absolutely correct.

FYI: Compared to Collier County, the value of Hage's legislation to the Developer is over a billion dollars (at the expense of current residents). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQiReUkH_V4

One of the few good developments regarding this issue is that every Developer-puppet County Commissioner who voted for the 2019 county tax increase to preserve the Developer's sweetheart impact fee has now been tossed out of office-- as has State Representative Hage, who got almost a million dollars from the Developer after sponsoring the legislation tailored to protect the Developer's sweetheart impact fee.

You write as if the business of development of The Villages was a negative thing. It isn't. It is a wonderfully well run and safe place and unlike anything on this earth. I don't think anyone is so naive that they don't know that having powerful friends that can help your business is desirable. There is a huge industry based on favors and getting them. That is reality. Business owners make money. The only entity that I know of that wastes and loses money on a regular basis is in power now.

[Two Bills]

You write as if the business of development of The Villages was a negative thing. It isn't. It is a wonderfully well run and safe place and unlike anything on this earth. I don't think anyone is so naive that they don't know that having powerful friends that can help your business is desirable. There is a huge industry based on favors and getting them. That is reality. Business owners make money. The only entity that I know of that wastes and loses money on a regular basis is in power now.

Thin ice Gracie! Thin ice!:wave:

[manaboutown]

You are absolutely correct.

FYI: Compared to Collier County, the value of Hage's legislation to the Developer is over a billion dollars (at the expense of current residents). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQiReUkH_V4

One of the few good developments regarding this issue is that every Developer-puppet County Commissioner who voted for the 2019 county tax increase to preserve the Developer's sweetheart impact fee has now been tossed out of office-- as has State Representative Hage, who got almost a million dollars from the Developer after sponsoring the legislation tailored to protect the Developer's sweetheart impact fee.

A billion bucks a year buys a lot of jet fuel. Plenty to go flying off to Montana or wherever to shoot trophy bucks, whether legally taken or not! Montana Poaching Case | News | kulr8.com (https://www.kulr8.com/news/montana-poaching-case/article_28fe86cc-be32-5e8e-844c-62b24a145c76.html)

Last I heard the developer has three private jets at Leesburg International Airport. I find it quite curious about how a small town general aviation airport serviced by no (zero) commercial airlines gained status as a port of entry. How convenient for the developer! Leesburg International Airport - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leesburg_International_Airport)

Also as long as the developer got away with it issuing municipal bonds although not a governmental entity must have been profitable!
In midst of IRS battle, Villages refunds tax-free bonds with taxable ones – Orlando Sentinel (https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/lake/os-lk-lauren-ritchie-villages-bonds-taxable-20141128-column.html)

[Papa_lecki]

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[Bogie Shooter]

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I agree……..