3 Palms that are NOT for this zone.

[Ozzello]

Areca, Foxtail and Christmas palms ... NOT for this area, and are becoming commonly planted. (Add Norfolk Island Pine to this list as well)

If you do the research (or remember the past) you will see these palms are DAMAGED most winters here. Damaged is not just a little brown from frost, it hits the center bud (heart) of the tree and takes more than a season for recovery... or kills the tree. on a 10 year freeze cycle, they are all DEAD. Horticulture is a SCIENCE, and doesn't change because some uneducated landscape designer wants to convince you they are better than other designers because they will plant these beautiful palms.. and give you a warrantee that EXCLUDES FREEZING (Acts of God) Find a designer with ANY college in FLORIDA horticulture, landscape design, or FL agriculture and you hang on to that unicorn.

These palms are beautiful, yes. But go find a healthy 20-year-old specimen of any of these (recently planted doesn't count) and I will remove this post and apologize for the following statement:

Any landscaper encouraging use of these palms in your landscape, either doesn't know what they are talking about, or is just plain greedy beyond any sort of integrity.

Rant is over, but if you already planted one of these palms, good luck this year. The acorns are dropping REALLY heavy. No that isn't science from a book, but sometimes the old-timers around here were on to something.

[JohnN]

European Fan Palms, Windmill Palms, Sugar Palms and Sable Palms do great.

[Ozzello]

European Fan Palms, Windmill Palms, Sugar Palms and Sable Palms do great.

Agreed, as do many others. But this post is to warn people of a trend that has been getting widespread traction, to plant these 3 palms. I am not looking to promote anything, but to keep focus on the buyer beware warning here.

[Bonanza]

Ozello . . . You forgot to mention one more that shouldn't be planted here and they are abundant . . .

The Queen Palm. Landscapers push them because they are cheap. I happen to call them trash trees because they always look like they have frizzle top but the bottom line is this is not the proper zone area for them.

[NotGolfer]

We have a neighbor who has a Norfolk pine that's grown quite tall and full. During Ian, it tipped a bit and now is anchored with a rope and stake. Seemed to do o.k. during Nicole. It's been in place now for a number of years.

[Bonanza]

We have a neighbor who has a Norfolk pine that's grown quite tall and full. During Ian, it tipped a bit and now is anchored with a rope and stake. Seemed to do o.k. during Nicole. It's been in place now for a number of years.

Norfolk Island Palms are very fragile trees and should NEVER be planted close to a house or any kind of structure. They should be planted out in the open, if at all. They blow over very easily in high winds. Your neighbor should remove the tree and not stake it because its integrity has been compromised and is unsafe.

[coralway]

This is The Villages. Science don’t work here.

[Bonanza]

This is The Villages. Science don’t (sic) work here.

A lame comment. It has nothing to do with science. It has to do with common sense.

This Norfolk Island Pine is native to the South Pacific and does not do well in our plant zone.
If you are ignorant regarding the tree, read about it and get educated.
If you buy one or get one for Christmas, DON'T plant it outside in your yard!

[Southwest737]

I am one of the “ignorant” who has planted a Norfolk pine. There appear to be a bunch of these trees around TV and someone forgot to tell them that they can’t survive these harsh central FL winters. ������

[Indydealmaker]

A lame comment. It has nothing to do with science. It has to do with common sense.

This Norfolk Island Pine is native to the South Pacific and does not do well in our plant zone.
If you are ignorant regarding the tree, read about it and get educated.
If you buy one or get one for Christmas, DON'T plant it outside in your yard!

Why so vociferous?

[sowilts]

Agree with Southwest. Have six, including two that arrived in a box from North Carolina. Have noticed palm trees in Virginia. What is sad is a Live Oak at the roundabout Corbin Trail and Marsh Bend Trail was split down the trunk and will require removal. Over 100 years old.

[Travelhunter123]

Why so vociferous?

Great word
I had to look it up

[Wondering]

Areca, Foxtail and Christmas palms ... NOT for this area, and are becoming commonly planted. (Add Norfolk Island Pine to this list as well)

If you do the research (or remember the past) you will see these palms are DAMAGED most winters here. Damaged is not just a little brown from frost, it hits the center bud (heart) of the tree and takes more than a season for recovery... or kills the tree. on a 10 year freeze cycle, they are all DEAD. Horticulture is a SCIENCE, and doesn't change because some uneducated landscape designer wants to convince you they are better than other designers because they will plant these beautiful palms.. and give you a warrantee that EXCLUDES FREEZING (Acts of God) Find a designer with ANY college in FLORIDA horticulture, landscape design, or FL agriculture and you hang on to that unicorn.

These palms are beautiful, yes. But go find a healthy 20-year-old specimen of any of these (recently planted doesn't count) and I will remove this post and apologize for the following statement:

Any landscaper encouraging use of these palms in your landscape, either doesn't know what they are talking about, or is just plain greedy beyond any sort of integrity.

Rant is over, but if you already planted one of these palms, good luck this year. The acorns are dropping REALLY heavy. No that isn't science from a book, but sometimes the old-timers around here were on to something.
Roebelenii palm is another. Tampa and south is the zone.

[Villages Kahuna]

Add Queen Palms. They will be badly damaged by one or two days of sun-freezing temperatures, maybe killed. If damaged, they’ll look terrible for a couple of years.

Do you want to know what palms to plant? Plant what the Developer plants. They employ experts to choose tree and plant varieties which require less maintenance, less water, and are weather tolerant for this area. Plant varieties that you like or those “peddled” by local stores or nurseries at your own risk.

[Bonanza]

Why so vociferous?

Why so vociferous? Mainly, to make a point.

Being ignorant does not mean anyone is stupid, which is what many people think.
It's more synonymous with unawareness. Those who have planted Norfolk Island Pines really need to read/learn about them before planting them, as with many other botanical things.

No harm intended.

Google "Right Plant, Right Place" for help and information.

[Bonanza]

Add Queen Palms. They will be badly damaged by one or two days of sun-freezing temperatures, maybe killed. If damaged, they’ll look terrible for a couple of years.

Do you want to know what palms to plant? Plant what the Developer plants. They employ experts to choose tree and plant varieties which require less maintenance, less water, and are weather tolerant for this area. Plant varieties that you like or those “peddled” by local stores or nurseries at your own risk.

Sorry, Kahuna, but I feel the need to correct you.

The developer does NOT employ "experts" to choose Villages' landscaping. He employs companies who will do the job cheaply! Case in point . . . look at all the Queen palms all over the place. Notice I mentioned that earlier in this thread (see Item #4). They are a no-no here!

In many villages, they planted the wrong grass because it was cheaper, not better, and now they have gone back to St. Augustine grass. I could go on, but won't.

[Normal]

Roebelenii palm is another. Tampa and south is the zone.

Respectfully, Robellini palms are fine for the Villages area. Sumter county is in Zone 9a and 9b. Marion and Lake counties encompass a little more of the 9a zone, but are still listed as part of the planting zone for the species.
State Maps of USDA Plant Hardiness Zones (https://www.thespruce.com/find-your-usda-zone-3269819). Below freezing temperatures can burn the fronds, but the tree should come back if this happens. The palm is suggested for zones 9-11.

[midiwiz]

Areca, Foxtail and Christmas palms ... NOT for this area, and are becoming commonly planted. (Add Norfolk Island Pine to this list as well)

If you do the research (or remember the past) you will see these palms are DAMAGED most winters here. Damaged is not just a little brown from frost, it hits the center bud (heart) of the tree and takes more than a season for recovery... or kills the tree. on a 10 year freeze cycle, they are all DEAD. Horticulture is a SCIENCE, and doesn't change because some uneducated landscape designer wants to convince you they are better than other designers because they will plant these beautiful palms.. and give you a warrantee that EXCLUDES FREEZING (Acts of God) Find a designer with ANY college in FLORIDA horticulture, landscape design, or FL agriculture and you hang on to that unicorn.

These palms are beautiful, yes. But go find a healthy 20-year-old specimen of any of these (recently planted doesn't count) and I will remove this post and apologize for the following statement:

Any landscaper encouraging use of these palms in your landscape, either doesn't know what they are talking about, or is just plain greedy beyond any sort of integrity.

Rant is over, but if you already planted one of these palms, good luck this year. The acorns are dropping REALLY heavy. No that isn't science from a book, but sometimes the old-timers around here were on to something.

No idea why you felt this needed this rant....however, it lacks all depth of understanding. TV covers 3 counties, and those areas are split between zones. For example my house is all of 1 block from the warmer zone. My foxtails are absolutely fine and having zero issues as we find the other ones heavy maintenance and quite frankly a royal pain in the ***. We have had palms at our other houses and have watched all of these varieties... they all differ in care and ability to handle the environment.

Just because you wouldn't doesn't mean you need to rant on everyone else's wishes, or are you the guy that's always flipping me off in the roundabouts???

maybe when TV gets off their behind and trims these palms with "skirts" the way they should be, then you can rant.... until then blah

[Bonanza]

No idea why you felt this needed this rant....however, it lacks all depth of understanding. TV covers 3 counties, and those areas are split between zones. For example my house is all of 1 block from the warmer zone. My foxtails are absolutely fine and having zero issues as we find the other ones heavy maintenance and quite frankly a royal pain in the ***. We have had palms at our other houses and have watched all of these varieties... they all differ in care and ability to handle the environment.

Just because you wouldn't doesn't mean you need to rant on everyone else's wishes, or are you the guy that's always flipping me off in the roundabouts???

maybe when TV gets off their behind and trims these palms with "skirts" the way they should be, then you can rant.... until then blah

No idea why you felt the need for your rant; yours is definitely unjustified. Ozello is pretty much right on the money when he makes a botanical comment, unlike what you are spewing. The care of different varieties of palms does NOT differ that much in the care they all require, if at all.

You are way off regarding the palm skirts to which you refer. They are Washingtonia palms and they are supposed to have skirts and NOT be trimmed. So much for your palm knowledge credentials!

N. B. Did you ever consider that perhaps you deserve to be flipped??!?

[Whitley]

No idea why you felt the need for your rant; yours is definitely unjustified. Ozello is pretty much right on the money when he makes a botanical comment, unlike what you are spewing. The care of different varieties of palms does NOT differ that much in the care they all require, if at all.

You are way off regarding the palm skirts to which you refer. They are Washingtonia palms and they are supposed to have skirts and NOT be trimmed. So much for your palm knowledge credentials!

N. B. Did you ever consider that perhaps you deserve to be flipped??!?

Politics, dogs, and now we can add palms.

[Davonu]

It’s amazing the topics that can lead to such arrogant, antagonistic, condescending posts in this forum.

This thread raises the bar. Palm trees for crying out loud.

[Bonanza]

Politics, dogs, and now we can add palms.

Whitley . . . How could you not add the circles, a/k/a roundabouts, to your list??!?

[Love2Swim]

Whitley . . . How could you not add the circles, a/k/a roundabouts, to your list??!?

The comment about skirts is correct. I was reading that over-pruning can actually kill the tree.

[Bay Kid]

I love palms, in other peoples yards. They are beautiful.

[Ozzello]

No idea why you felt this needed this rant....however, it lacks all depth of understanding. TV covers 3 counties, and those areas are split between zones. For example my house is all of 1 block from the warmer zone. My foxtails are absolutely fine and having zero issues as we find the other ones heavy maintenance and quite frankly a royal pain in the ***. We have had palms at our other houses and have watched all of these varieties... they all differ in care and ability to handle the environment.

Just because you wouldn't doesn't mean you need to rant on everyone else's wishes, or are you the guy that's always flipping me off in the roundabouts???

maybe when TV gets off their behind and trims these palms with "skirts" the way they should be, then you can rant.... until then blah

Wow.
1st off.. QUEEN PALMS only die here when they are very small. Not a good zone for an outdoor queen palm nursery. They handle our winters fine here. In the 80s we had 2-100 year freezes and lost less than 5% of our queens. I have posted the reasons why people are losing queens, this isn't that post.
Hint: if your queens are alot of maint. , you are maintaining them WRONG, and probably heading for a dead queen that someone will tell you the cold killed.

If you have foxtails already, good luck. Weather is a tricky thing, but sooner or later the harder freezes show up.

You are NOT in a different zone. You are in 9A, granted the south end of that zone is a little warmer than the north, but not by much. Even if you are in zone 9B, my post still stands as true.

Everyone else's wishes? Mine are the same, I have wished for 40 years foxtails ( and many other tropicals) would live here long term.

Robis are SUB tropicals. We do lose a higher % than queen palms in hard freezes. I spent many years talking people out of planting them after seeing what happened in the 80s. Finally decided they are too pretty to not use, and always small enough to replace easily. Crotons the same.

I don't flip people off. Ever.
If a lot of people flip you off on traffic circles though, the problem might be you.

[Boffin]

Areca, Foxtail and Christmas palms ... NOT for this area, and are becoming commonly planted. (Add Norfolk Island Pine to this list as well)

If you do the research (or remember the past) you will see these palms are DAMAGED most winters here. Damaged is not just a little brown from frost, it hits the center bud (heart) of the tree and takes more than a season for recovery... or kills the tree. on a 10 year freeze cycle, they are all DEAD. Horticulture is a SCIENCE, and doesn't change because some uneducated landscape designer wants to convince you they are better than other designers because they will plant these beautiful palms.. and give you a warrantee that EXCLUDES FREEZING (Acts of God) Find a designer with ANY college in FLORIDA horticulture, landscape design, or FL agriculture and you hang on to that unicorn.

These palms are beautiful, yes. But go find a healthy 20-year-old specimen of any of these (recently planted doesn't count) and I will remove this post and apologize for the following statement:

Any landscaper encouraging use of these palms in your landscape, either doesn't know what they are talking about, or is just plain greedy beyond any sort of integrity.

Rant is over, but if you already planted one of these palms, good luck this year. The acorns are dropping REALLY heavy. No that isn't science from a book, but sometimes the old-timers around here were on to something.

As an aside, the following palms are native to Florida. All others are invasive.
Buccaneer Palm (Pseudophoenix sargentii)
Royal Palm (Roystonea regia)
Paurotis Palm (Acoelorrhaphe wrightii)
Cabbage Palm (Sabal palmetto)
Dwarf Palmetto (Sabal minor)
Scrub Palmetto (Sabal etonia)
Florida Silver Palm (Coccothrinax argentata)
Miami Palmetto (Sabal miamiensis)
Saw Palmetto (Serenoa repens)
Needle Palm (Rhapidophyllum hystrix)
Key Thatch Palm (Leucothrinax morrisii)
Thatch Palm (Thrinax)

[Bonanza]

As an aside, the following palms are native to Florida. All others are invasive.
Buccaneer Palm (Pseudophoenix sargentii)
Royal Palm (Roystonea regia)
Paurotis Palm (Acoelorrhaphe wrightii)
Cabbage Palm (Sabal palmetto)
Dwarf Palmetto (Sabal minor)
Scrub Palmetto (Sabal etonia)
Florida Silver Palm (Coccothrinax argentata)
Miami Palmetto (Sabal miamiensis)
Saw Palmetto (Serenoa repens)
Needle Palm (Rhapidophyllum hystrix)
Key Thatch Palm (Leucothrinax morrisii)
Thatch Palm (Thrinax)

Sorry Boffin, you've stated another misnomer on this thread.

Correction: Palms not native to Florida are not necessarily invasive and probably aren't invasive, meaning that they do not take over or spread by natural means. Yes, some of them can and do self-seed but you will never see a forest of them.

There are many botanical plants that are invasive in Florida but palms are not one of them!

[Bonanza]

As an aside, the following palms are native to Florida. All others are invasive.
Buccaneer Palm (Pseudophoenix sargentii)
Royal Palm (Roystonea regia)
Paurotis Palm (Acoelorrhaphe wrightii)
Cabbage Palm (Sabal palmetto)
Dwarf Palmetto (Sabal minor)
Scrub Palmetto (Sabal etonia)
Florida Silver Palm (Coccothrinax argentata)
Miami Palmetto (Sabal miamiensis)
Saw Palmetto (Serenoa repens)
Needle Palm (Rhapidophyllum hystrix)
Key Thatch Palm (Leucothrinax morrisii)
Thatch Palm (Thrinax)

Sorry Boffin, you've stated another misnomer on this thread.

Correction: Palms not native to Florida are not necessarily invasive and probably aren't invasive, meaning that they do not take over or spread by natural means. Yes, some of them can and do self-seed but you will never see a forest of them.

There are many botanical plants that are invasive in Florida but palms are not one of them!

[Boffin]

Sorry Boffin, you've stated another misnomer on this thread.

Correction: Palms not native to Florida are not necessarily invasive and probably aren't invasive, meaning that they do not take over or spread by natural means. Yes, some of them can and do self-seed but you will never see a forest of them.

There are many botanical plants that are invasive in Florida but palms are not one of them!
Defintion by U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service:
Invasive species are non-native plants, animals and other living organisms that thrive in areas where they don’t naturally live and cause (or are likely to cause) economic or environmental harm, or harm to human, animal or plant health. Invasive species degrade, change or displace native habitats, compete with native wildlife, and are major threats to biodiversity.
Next question is how is harm determined? I doubt that this person has the credentials to say anything is probably noninvasive. The statement made is likely therefore to also be a bit of misinformation.

[Bonanza]

Defintion by U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service:
Invasive species are non-native plants, animals and other living organisms that thrive in areas where they don’t naturally live and cause (or are likely to cause) economic or environmental harm, or harm to human, animal or plant health. Invasive species degrade, change or displace native habitats, compete with native wildlife, and are major threats to biodiversity.
Next question is how is harm determined? I doubt that this person has the credentials to say anything is probably noninvasive. The statement made is likely therefore to also be a bit of misinformation.

Once again, Boffin, you have quoted an incorrect source for the "misinformation" you've posted regarding palms. You do not go to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service for information on non-native (invasive?) palms. The correct source would be the University of Florida/IFAS, with which you obviously are not familiar; if you truly wanted pertinent information, that is the only source and the only "go-to" source. Period!

Sorry, but what you have quoted does not refer to palms or even specific plant life although there may be one or two palm varieties that could be considered invasive, but probably not at this time. Actually, what you have quoted is confusing and irrelevant because it does not apply to palms at all.

Here is a partial quote from IFAS which you may find helpful, and it refers to plants, NOT palms:

"When we consider that Florida is home to approximately 135 threatened or endangered species, the connection between invasive species prevention and management is clear. Currently, there are approximately 1,500 non-native plant species present in Florida (Wunderlin et al. 2020). Not all of these plants are invading Florida's natural areas at this time. However, once a species becomes invasive, ecological and economic costs can escalate. Having a tool to assess the status of nonnative species in the state can identify invasive plants . . . . "

I'm sorry, but I stand by my prior statements and like yours, they are not misinformation.
My credentials are through the University of Florida. What are yours???

[Ozzello]

BONANZA!

Gotta go with you on this one.

Many of the "native" species mentioned will not live in this zone anyway. Also, even many of the palms listed (and not..coconut, wild date, etc) naturally arrived to our coastlines over the years.

The elephant in the landscape room I don't hear many discuss? Florida native vs Florida friendly.

Here's one for all you "Florida Friendly" , master gardeners and such...
Does Florida friendly mean WILDLIFE supportive?
I mean as long as we are pretending that these "new" Walters viburnum varieties et al are "Native" or "friendly", shouldn't we be asking ourselves how they can be "friendly" when some hybrids (or trimming them prior to blooming or right after) don't produce the berries for the birds?
Also.. seems the same people touting "native" and "friendly" are also saying don't plant palms because of the "palm" rats...
Many species eat the fruits and bees use the pollen and nectars from our different palms.. not just rats.

There is a very wide line between completely wild ( healthy) and a sterile, 100% free and void of bugs and critters landscape. Funny how most all of us land in this very wide line somewhere, and some stand pointing fingers in both directions, calling everyone else wrong.

[Boffin]

Once again, Boffin, you have quoted an incorrect source for the "misinformation" you've posted regarding palms. You do not go to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service for information on non-native (invasive?) palms. The correct source would be the University of Florida/IFAS, with which you obviously are not familiar; if you truly wanted pertinent information, that is the only source and the only "go-to" source. Period!

Sorry, but what you have quoted does not refer to palms or even specific plant life although there may be one or two palm varieties that could be considered invasive, but probably not at this time. Actually, what you have quoted is confusing and irrelevant because it does not apply to palms at all.

Here is a partial quote from IFAS which you may find helpful, and it refers to plants, NOT palms:

"When we consider that Florida is home to approximately 135 threatened or endangered species, the connection between invasive species prevention and management is clear. Currently, there are approximately 1,500 non-native plant species present in Florida (Wunderlin et al. 2020). Not all of these plants are invading Florida's natural areas at this time. However, once a species becomes invasive, ecological and economic costs can escalate. Having a tool to assess the status of nonnative species in the state can identify invasive plants . . . . "

I'm sorry, but I stand by my prior statements and like yours, they are not misinformation.
My credentials are through the University of Florida. What are yours???
University of Florida is one authority among many. Give Florida is the capital of invasive species in the U.S. the University is well informed. Although their success in mitigation is poor, they do know a lot about them. As to nonnative/noninvasive palm trees, it was a palm tree that brought us lethal bronze disease. Of course technically, it is the bacteria that is the invasive species not the palm. At any rate given the overflow of nonnative and invasive species (palm trees and/or any others) in this state, discussion is interesting but probably will not stem the tide.

[Bonanza]

University of Florida is one authority among many. Give Florida is the capital of invasive species in the U.S. the University is well informed. Although their success in mitigation is poor, they do know a lot about them. As to nonnative/noninvasive palm trees, it was a palm tree that brought us lethal bronze disease. Of course technically, it is the bacteria that is the invasive species not the palm. At any rate given the overflow of nonnative and invasive species (palm trees and/or any others) in this state, discussion is interesting but probably will not stem the tide.

You seem to be copying information from an unknown source(s) but still do not seem to entirely understand what it means., i.e., meaningless words without any real explanation. The University has had great luck in handling many issues and diseases, but that takes a great deal of time as far as prevention goes.

What are the other Florida authorities that you have failed to mention? The main source -- the University of Florida/IFAS is virtually still the only genuine source to go by. They are more than "well informed;" they are experts!

Why are you specifically only bringing up the lethal bronze disease when there are many diseases that are prone to specific plants and/or palms? If you are bringing that up you should have mentioned that the disease is affecting the state tree -- the Sabal palm (but you didn't). I guess you failed to read about the meat and potatoes of the disease and only copied what you thought was meaningful.

[Boffin]

You seem to be copying information from an unknown source(s) but still do not seem to entirely understand what it means., i.e., meaningless words without any real explanation. The University has had great luck in handling many issues and diseases, but that takes a great deal of time as far as prevention goes.

What are the other Florida authorities that you have failed to mention? The main source -- the University of Florida/IFAS is virtually still the only genuine source to go by. They are more than "well informed;" they are experts!

Why are you specifically only bringing up the lethal bronze disease when there are many diseases that are prone to specific plants and/or palms? If you are bringing that up you should have mentioned that the disease is affecting the state tree -- the Sabal palm (but you didn't). I guess you failed to read about the meat and potatoes of the disease and only copied what you thought was meaningful.
Experts that have had luck huh? As if your words are meaningful. One thing is for sure: we will both use University of Florida information. Unfortunately, that is apparently your only source.

[Bonanza]

Experts that have had luck huh? As if your words are meaningful. One thing is for sure: we will both use University of Florida information. Unfortunately, that is apparently your only source.

Stop mincing words! Yes, the University has had good luck because they know what they are doing, meaning through trials and tribulations they have come up with methods for doing things, solving problems, etc.

And no -- the University/IFAS is not my only source of information but one that is reliable, proven, accurate, and any other positive synonyms you can find. I happen to have an extensive botanical library, as well.

I recommend that you not second-guess me. :girlneener:
:Screen_of_Death:

[jhambley]

Anyone know what varieties the developer plants?


Do you want to know what palms to plant? Plant what the Developer plants. They employ experts to choose tree and plant varieties which require less maintenance, less water, and are weather tolerant for this area. Plant varieties that you like or those “peddled” by local stores or nurseries at your own risk.

[walterray1]

Anyone know what varieties the developer plants?

Awful lot of angst and vitriol over palm trees. Everyone trying to out expert everyone else.

[Altavia]

Deleted duplicate post...

[Altavia]

Anyone know what varieties the developer plants?

Currently they only plant "Florida Friendly" plants in new home construction ( no palm trees).

[Love2Swim]

Currently they only plant "Florida Friendly" plants in new home construction ( no palm trees).

They used to plant a lot of those oak trees, which, IMHO, are way too large for our house lots. Besides, they are dirty, messy trees.

[photo1902]

Roebelenii palm is another. Tampa and south is the zone.

Tell that to my two Robellinis that have been thriving since planting them in 2015.