Does anybody now feel like the Villages is a safer place to live?

[tophcfa]

Now that Oren Miller is a convicted felon and is off the streets of the Villages does anyone feel safer? Let’s see, a harmless senior citizen whose trivial crime was misremembering (that’s a Roger Clemens term) the details of some telephone conversations is now behind bars. Meanwhile, wife beaters, drug dealers, drunken drivers, golf cart thieves, and many other dangerous criminals we should all be afraid of are walking around freely on our streets.

Something is seriously wrong with this picture. The moral of the story is that it’s not the crime one commits, it’s the people in high places that one rubs the wrong way that really matters.

[Taltarzac725]

I looked at the stuff in the paper lately. I mean theVillages Daily Sun and its coverage of the Oren Miller lying under oath case.

There is something very off about it-- both the case and the coverage.

He did lie under oath. First about talking about donuts and then talking about other stuff in places where the stuff said was in shadows. It seems though that the coverage hardly fits the crime. We will see what kind of sentence he gets.

I have met Oren Miller while he and his wife were out looking for a neighbor's missing pooch. They found it in the house of neighbor on the south side of our house. The neighbor who lost the dog was on the north side. It was the pet of a chef visiting his parents from Atlanta. They lived next door so there was a lot of confusion as the dog tags showed an owner in Atlanta. The Millers were making many calls trying to get the dog home. The chef was out to dinner with his parents and the dog must have slipped out the front door. The neighbors to the south did call the radio station about the dog they had found in their front yard. He had scratched at their front door.

[Mrs.Guy]

:shrug: What I take away from this post is #1.Oren Miller is a convicted felon. #2. Someone's hatred may be showing again.

And

I don't have a degree in Law but I don't think he was convicted of lying about donuts. :rolleyes:

[Taltarzac725]

:shrug: What I take away from this post is #1.Oren Miller is a convicted felon. #2. Someone's hatred may be showing again.

And

I don't have a degree in Law but I don't think he was convicted of lying about donuts. :rolleyes:

He lied about their talking about some other stuff. I would be very interested though in how much this happens in real life and the culprits are never caught. And if equity would find that throwing the book at Owen Miller was really worth it? Selective prosecution in other words.

[Two Bills]

A minnow taken by a shark.
The charges, however spurious, were not the point.
The point being made, was who really holds the power in The villages.
Point proven!

[ureout]

whether right or wrong I find it amazing how quickly an investigation, trial and verdict can be done. Yet politicians that are being investigated by the federal gov't take multiple years for far more supposed serious crimes ... just 1 example (matt gaetz)

[44Apple]

And, maybe I missed it, but I still haven't seen the Fire Dept results reported in that "paper". Wonder why??

[Love2Swim]

Now that Oren Miller is a convicted felon and is off the streets of the Villages does anyone feel safer? Let’s see, a harmless senior citizen whose trivial crime was misremembering (that’s a Roger Clemens term) the details of some telephone conversations is now behind bars. Meanwhile, wife beaters, drug dealers, drunken drivers, golf cart thieves, and many other dangerous criminals we should all be afraid of are walking around freely on our streets.

Something is seriously wrong with this picture. The moral of the story is that it’s not the crime one commits, it’s the people in high places that one rubs the wrong way that really matters.

Well its always been that way, unfortunately. The people in high places have the power. I too was shocked at the sentence, though. Way over the top.

[Mrs.Guy]

Well its always been that way, unfortunately. The people in high places have the power. I too was shocked at the sentence, though. Way over the top.

:ohdear: HAS NOT BEEN SENTENCED YET.

[Kenswing]

I feel safer knowing he can’t build his wife her own personal multi million dollar animal rescue facility with our tax dollars.

[Taltarzac725]

I feel safer knowing he can’t build his wife her own personal multi million dollar animal rescue facility with our tax dollars.

It is not her personal rescue facility. There were and are many people fighting for a no kill shelter in Sumter County. Things might have changed though with all the news coverage. Maybe that policy changed? They have been at this for years. I mean the Millers and their supporters. So I am not sure when Sumter County became a no kill shelter.

[wisbad1]

Now that Oren Miller is a convicted felon and is off the streets of the Villages does anyone feel safer? Let’s see, a harmless senior citizen whose trivial crime was misremembering (that’s a Roger Clemens term) the details of some telephone conversations is now behind bars. Meanwhile, wife beaters, drug dealers, drunken drivers, golf cart thieves, and many other dangerous criminals we should all be afraid of are walking around freely on our streets.

Something is seriously wrong with this picture. The moral of the story is that it’s not the crime one commits, it’s the people in high places that one rubs the wrong way that really matters.
Sad story for sure. Why’s grandpa in jail? Child molesters walking around freely, druggies and he’s locked up. God help us please.

[Taltarzac725]

Sad story for sure. Why’s grandpa in jail? Child molesters walking around freely, druggies and he’s locked up. God help us please.

He is not a shrewd politician with an army of lawyers. His approach to doing business was not well done. He has not been in the game long. The Villages Daily Sun did a real number on him though with multiple front page articles going over the same "facts".

[Kenswing]

Sad story for sure. Why’s grandpa in jail? Child molesters walking around freely, druggies and he’s locked up. God help us please.

I’d be very surprised if he got much time if any. Probably community service and probation.

This whole thing would have been a big nothingburger if he would have simply admitted that he made a mistake by secretly talking about county business. But instead he decided to lie under oath. That has proven to be a stupid decision.

[Taltarzac725]

I’d be very surprised if he got much time if any. Probably community service and probation.

This whole thing would have been a big nothingburger if he would have simply admitted that he made a mistake by secretly talking about county business. But instead he decided to lie under oath. That has proven to be a stupid decision.

That's true.

[Love2Swim]

:ohdear: HAS NOT BEEN SENTENCED YET.

Correct, I mis-spoke. I meant the fact that he is behind bars is over the top. And faces 5 years in prison. Seriously?

[Kenswing]

Correct, I mis-spoke. I meant the fact that he is behind bars is over the top. And faces 5 years in prison. Seriously?

I was surprised too that they are holding him until sentencing. I figured they’d just pull his passport. Maybe put an electronic leash on him.

[ThirdOfFive]

Now that Oren Miller is a convicted felon and is off the streets of the Villages does anyone feel safer? Let’s see, a harmless senior citizen whose trivial crime was misremembering (that’s a Roger Clemens term) the details of some telephone conversations is now behind bars. Meanwhile, wife beaters, drug dealers, drunken drivers, golf cart thieves, and many other dangerous criminals we should all be afraid of are walking around freely on our streets.

Something is seriously wrong with this picture. The moral of the story is that it’s not the crime one commits, it’s the people in high places that one rubs the wrong way that really matters.
I know very little about the case—but this is the way our system works. The judge didn’t find him guilty. A randomly-selected jury of his peers did that, and as I understand it, it took that jury something like twenty-seven minutes to arrive at that verdict.

Oh—and about whether or not we feel safer with “wife beaters, drug dealers, drunken drivers, golf cart thieves, and many other dangerous criminals” allegedly walking around freely on our streets—well, dunno about the rest of the folks here, but for a good ten years living in my former residence near Minneapolis - St. Paul, I never went into the cities without carrying personal protection. Here in TV, even though I am qualified to do so under Florida law, I haven’t done so even once.

The law seems to be doing an exceptional job here.

[Mrs.Guy]

Correct, I mis-spoke. I meant the fact that he is behind bars is over the top. And faces 5 years in prison. Seriously?

Seriously! And I'm sure he knew the possible punishment before going to trial. I also bet the other one did too...... he copped a plea. :oops:

[DAVES]

He lied about their talking about some other stuff. I would be very interested though in how much this happens in real life and the culprits are never caught. And if equity would find that throwing the book at Owen Miller was really worth it? Selective prosecution in other words.

Law, police, crime is interesting. I recall a cub scout trip to the FBI in Washington DC. Yup it was a long, long, long time ago. I still recall being told they solve 20% of the cases. The good criminals-crimes- they never know about. Most crime that is prevented is prevented out of fear of being caught. They do not catch everyone.

Selective prosecution is always so. They do not catch everyone. Real life? Caught once, it is on your record making you a suspect in other crimes. REALITY - LIFE IS NOT FAIR.

[Love2Swim]

Law, police, crime is interesting. I recall a cub scout trip to the FBI in Washington DC. Yup it was a long, long, long time ago. I still recall being told they solve 20% of the cases. The good criminals-crimes- they never know about. Most crime that is prevented is prevented out of fear of being caught. They do not catch everyone.

Selective prosecution is always so. They do not catch everyone. Real life? Caught once, it is on your record making you a suspect in other crimes. REALITY - LIFE IS NOT FAIR.

Agree. Life certainly is not fair. I think of someone like Roger Stone who was found guilty of felony charges of obstruction, making false statements and witness tampering, and he was sentenced to 40 months in prison. And then he was pardoned - completely got away with it. Quite the double standard. The law may do and exceptional job, but the powers that be can easily override the law to suit their whims.

[Taltarzac725]

Agree. Life certainly is not fair. I think of someone like Roger Stone who was found guilty of felony charges of obstruction, making false statements and witness tampering, and he was sentenced to 40 months in prison. And then he was pardoned - completely got away with it. Quite the double standard. The law may do and exceptional job, but the powers that be can easily override the law to suit their whims.

The powers that be pretty much put a watermelon ������ on the scales of justice ⚖️ against Oren Miller.

[golfing eagles]

:shrug: What I take away from this post is #1.Oren Miller is a convicted felon. #2. Someone's hatred may be showing again.

And

I don't have a degree in Law but I don't think he was convicted of lying about donuts. :rolleyes:

That pretty much sums it up

[Bruce3055]

For the most part, I hope the sunshine law is widely dis-regarded. I can't imagine any responsible leaders not talking with each other outside of formal meetings. It seems business would grind to a halt if they didn't.

Now why Miller didn't take a plea bargain if offered the same as his partner in crime is beyond me especially when he knew he was going to testify against him. But then again, maybe the pleas deal wasn't really offered to him.

And I'm disappointed about the tax payers dollars spent on this case. I sure hope he doesn't get sentenced to more jail time for his crime. I think the stress he's already gone through will keep him from taking on politicians in the future.

And I agree to throw him in jail awaiting sentencing is over the top. It reminds me of how many high level convicted folks are out on appeal - why not Miller.

One thing I can be almost glad for is the reporting on this case is hopefully almost done. It's been embarrassing.

[charlie1]

I’d be very surprised if he got much time if any. Probably community service and probation.

This whole thing would have been a big nothingburger if he would have simply admitted that he made a mistake by secretly talking about county business. But instead he decided to lie under oath. That has proven to be a stupid decision.

I would also will be surprised, when sentenced, if he gets additional prison time. I agree that he should have just admitted to the issue in the first place. Because he lied and, he did create his own problem! Apparently, his lawyers had no defense to the proof presented by the prosecutors since the jury was only out 23 minutes for deliberation. It takes that long to take a rollcall and fill out the paperwork. The jurors obviously saw no reason to discuss the case.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

For the most part, I hope the sunshine law is widely dis-regarded. I can't imagine any responsible leaders not talking with each other outside of formal meetings. It seems business would grind to a halt if they didn't.

Now why Miller didn't take a plea bargain if offered the same as his partner in crime is beyond me especially when he knew he was going to testify against him. But then again, maybe the pleas deal wasn't really offered to him.

And I'm disappointed about the tax payers dollars spent on this case. I sure hope he doesn't get sentenced to more jail time for his crime. I think the stress he's already gone through will keep him from taking on politicians in the future.

And I agree to throw him in jail awaiting sentencing is over the top. It reminds me of how many high level convicted folks are out on appeal - why not Miller.

One thing I can be almost glad for is the reporting on this case is hopefully almost done. It's been embarrassing.

Yup. Our tax dollars at work, supplying Mr. Miller with food, clothing, shelter, and medical care (if needed) until sentencing. When he /could/ be at home, paying his own way. He's not exactly wealthy enough to fly to another country to live, to avoid sentencing. And if there was even the -hint- that he might do that, just strap an anklet on him and pull his passport.

[twoplanekid]

For the most part, I hope the sunshine law is widely dis-regarded. I can't imagine any responsible leaders not talking with each other outside of formal meetings. It seems business would grind to a halt if they didn't.

Now why Miller didn't take a plea bargain if offered the same as his partner in crime is beyond me especially when he knew he was going to testify against him. But then again, maybe the pleas deal wasn't really offered to him.

And I'm disappointed about the tax payers dollars spent on this case. I sure hope he doesn't get sentenced to more jail time for his crime. I think the stress he's already gone through will keep him from taking on politicians in the future.

And I agree to throw him in jail awaiting sentencing is over the top. It reminds me of how many high level convicted folks are out on appeal - why not Miller.

One thing I can be almost glad for is the reporting on this case is hopefully almost done. It's been embarrassing.

It's a law that all elected officials in Florida must adhere to. I personally believe the Sunshine Law is too restrictive and should be modified. I suggested to staff that we should have a board meeting in December. Staff then has to contact the board chair to pass my suggestion on to him to have him decide if a board meeting is needed. My suggestions as to why I would like to have a board meeting in December are not conveyed as I don't want to use staff as an intermediary. What the heck??

[tophcfa]

For the most part, I hope the sunshine law is widely dis-regarded. I can't imagine any responsible leaders not talking with each other outside of formal meetings. It seems business would grind to a halt if they didn't.

Every state has those laws, just under a different name. You are correct, the laws can be so restrictive it makes doing one’s job way more difficult and time consuming than necessary. I used to volunteer for several boards in the small town we live in up north, but not any more primarily because of those requirements (and that we spend about half our time in the Villages). It’s a big reason many towns are struggling to find people willing to volunteer their time to serve on municipal boards.

[Caymus]

It's a law that all elected officials in Florida must adhere to. I personally believe the Sunshine Law is too restrictive and should be modified. I suggested to staff that we should have a board meeting in December. Staff then has to contact the board chair to pass my suggestion on to him to have him decide if a board meeting is needed. My suggestions as to why I would like to have a board meeting in December are not conveyed as I don't want to use staff as an intermediary. What the heck??

Are sunshine laws only at the town/municipal levels? Doesn't seem to be at Federal/State levels.

[Taltarzac725]

Are sunshine laws only at the town/municipal levels? Doesn't seem to be at Federal/State levels.

They do but with a lot of limitations-- Government in the Sunshine Act | GSA (https://www.gsa.gov/policy-regulations/policy/federal-advisory-committee-management/legislation-and-regulations/government-in-the-sunshine-act)

[Caymus]

They do but with a lot of limitations-- Government in the Sunshine Act | GSA (https://www.gsa.gov/policy-regulations/policy/federal-advisory-committee-management/legislation-and-regulations/government-in-the-sunshine-act)


So, they can't meet privately with activists or lobbyists?:icon_wink: :icon_wink:

[Taltarzac725]

So, they can't meet privately with activists or lobbyists?:icon_wink: :icon_wink:

https://fsne.org/when-it-comes-to-lobbying-florida-sunshine-laws-are-dark/

I did find this for Florida.

[Number 10 GI]

The moral of the story is that it’s not the crime one commits, it’s the people in high places that one rubs the wrong way that really matters.

The real moral of the story is that if you do stupid things, you suffer stupid consequences.

What was the adage from the 70's or 80's? If you can't do the time don't do the crime.

[Number 10 GI]

Seriously! And I'm sure he knew the possible punishment before going to trial. I also bet the other one did too...... he copped a plea. :oops:

No honor among thieves. One rat ratted out the other rat.

[Taltarzac725]

No honor among thieves. One rat ratted out the other rat.

Oren Miller is a very good person as far as I can tell.

[tophcfa]

Oren Miller is a very good person as far as I can tell.

Be careful Tal, you’ll get called a hater for saying that.

[Number 10 GI]

Absolutely the most brilliant idea I've ever heard of, eliminate the Sunshine Laws. Yeah!!! Let the politicians get behind closed doors and work out all kinds of back room deals that financially/politically benefit them and screw the taxpayers. I've got a news flash, politicians don't do anything behind closed doors that benefits the public. The only politician you can trust is the one you have with your gun to his head.

[Number 10 GI]

Oren Miller is a very good person as far as I can tell.

Good people don't violate the law and lie under oath.

[Mlogan22@tampabay.rr.com]

yes they do

[Mrs.Guy]

Oren Miller is a very good person as far as I can tell.

:confused: Are we talking out of all the people you know or just the convicted felons you know? What's the old saying?

"If a man builds a thousand bridges and commits one felony , they don't call him a bridge-builder... they call him a felon." or something like that.

I'm sure he was a very nice person..... not so sure that is how he will be remembered. And that is a shame but something he did to himself. :sad:

[New Englander]

The powers that be pretty much put a watermelon ������ on the scales of justice ⚖️ against Oren Miller.

:agree:

[Marathon Man]

He chose to lie. He chose to go to trial. He was found guilty by a jury of his peers. I don't understand the complaint.

[Taltarzac725]

:confused: Are we talking out of all the people you know or just the convicted felons you know? What's the old saying?

"If a man builds a thousand bridges and commits one felony , they don't call him a bridge-builder... they call him a felon." or something like that.

I'm sure he was a very nice person..... not so sure that is how he will be remembered. And that is a shame but something he did to himself. :sad:

This conviction will hardly matter to the people who love and admire Oren Miller. There are many of these.

[Love2Swim]

He chose to lie. He chose to go to trial. He was found guilty by a jury of his peers. I don't understand the complaint.

The complaint is that all sorts of high profile people have done so much more than he did and got away with it, while he is sitting in prison for who knows how long. The scales of justice are not evenly balanced.

[tophcfa]

Yeah!!! Let the politicians get behind closed doors and work out all kinds of back room deals that financially/politically benefit them and screw the taxpayers.

Your absolutely correct, that totally stinks. Look no further than Brett Hage for an example.

[Number 10 GI]

Your absolutely correct, that totally stinks. Look no further than Brett Hage for an example.

There are so many examples in all political parties if you will be honest about it. Didn't you read my post that the only politician that you can trust is the one you have with a gun to his head? I distrust all politicians.

[Debra Freeman]

More population; more crime. True anywhere.

[bowlingal]

And, maybe I missed it, but I still haven't seen the Fire Dept results reported in that "paper". Wonder why??

44Apple....it was in the paper with all the other election results

[bowlingal]

If an appeal is in the works, he definitely needs a new and better lawyer.

[banjobob]

So glad see nothing political in these posts.

[Rwirish]

He committed felony perjury. Nothing to do about donuts.

[Worldseries27]

Sounds like a senior citizen in over his head about both his job responsibilities and skills set he needed for them. How about a sincere mea culpa, and some forgiveness from us will catch a mansions ear in tallahassee.

[Stu from NYC]

The punishment hardly fit the crime.

If the sun had its way he would be public enemy number one.

In other words if the developer doesn't get his way one way he will get it another.

Remind me never to run for public office.

[G.R.I.T.S.]

Now that Oren Miller is a convicted felon and is off the streets of the Villages does anyone feel safer? Let’s see, a harmless senior citizen whose trivial crime was misremembering (that’s a Roger Clemens term) the details of some telephone conversations is now behind bars. Meanwhile, wife beaters, drug dealers, drunken drivers, golf cart thieves, and many other dangerous criminals we should all be afraid of are walking around freely on our streets.

Something is seriously wrong with this picture. The moral of the story is that it’s not the crime one commits, it’s the people in high places that one rubs the wrong way that really matters.
Wife beaters, drug dealers walking “our streets?” I’d like to see those stats. Agree about the DUIs and cart thieves, but even those are not rampant. Geez! 🤷🏻*♀️

[golfing eagles]

Wife beaters, drug dealers walking “our streets?” I’d like to see those stats. Agree about the DUIs and cart thieves, but even those are not rampant. Geez! 🤷🏻*♀️

Bottom line: Statistically, we live in one of the safest communities in the country. Crime rate is low, not zero. Violent crime is extremely low.

[buchananjw1]

Now that Oren Miller is a convicted felon and is off the streets of the Villages does anyone feel safer? Let’s see, a harmless senior citizen whose trivial crime was misremembering (that’s a Roger Clemens term) the details of some telephone conversations is now behind bars. Meanwhile, wife beaters, drug dealers, drunken drivers, golf cart thieves, and many other dangerous criminals we should all be afraid of are walking around freely on our streets.

Something is seriously wrong with this picture. The moral of the story is that it’s not the crime one commits, it’s the people in high places that one rubs the wrong way that really matters.
He betrayed his oath, he betrayed those of us he was elected to serve, and he did this with full understanding that he was committing a crime -- and then he lied about it. Come on! I agree other criminals should receive the punishments they deserve, but don't belittle his crime saying he's "harmless" and that the crime is "trivial". No crime that blatantly disregards an oath to serve friends and neighbors is trivial and no criminal is harmless.

[forebubba]

And, maybe I missed it, but I still haven't seen the Fire Dept results reported in that "paper". Wonder why??

You missed it. Very small 2 or 3 sentence on page 4, 5, or 6
It failed

[Warren]

It is my experience that when you get yourself in a hole, quit digging! That was the real crime here. I doubt he will receive any time. He has already been punished.

[BlueStarAirlines]

It was not this crime was difficult to solve. Step #1 in determining if there was collaboration was to pull the phone records. Using one of the 50 or so phone apps such as Telegram or Signal would have eliminated those records.

They either didn't think they were really breaking the law, didn't think it was that serious of a law, or thought they were above the law. According to the phone records, some calls were seconds....so could have been about donuts. Many other calls were 10 minutes. Both individuals were offered an immunity deal, and only one took it.

[Dilligas]

Absolutely the most brilliant idea I've ever heard of, eliminate the Sunshine Laws. Yeah!!! Let the politicians get behind closed doors and work out all kinds of back room deals that financially/politically benefit them and screw the taxpayers. I've got a news flash, politicians don't do anything behind closed doors that benefits the public. The only politician you can trust is the one you have with your gun to his head.
For proof & example, look at politics in Chicago, Detroit, etc.
Answer to original post….we are safer from corrupt politicians.

[RedChariot]

Go against the Developer and they will bury you. Few of us are any match for their power, money, and influence. We don't stand a chance.

[Judy n Ron]

Now that Oren Miller is a convicted felon and is off the streets of the Villages does anyone feel safer? Let’s see, a harmless senior citizen whose trivial crime was misremembering (that’s a Roger Clemens term) the details of some telephone conversations is now behind bars. Meanwhile, wife beaters, drug dealers, drunken drivers, golf cart thieves, and many other dangerous criminals we should all be afraid of are walking around freely on our streets.

Something is seriously wrong with this picture. The moral of the story is that it’s not the crime one commits, it’s the people in high places that one rubs the wrong way that really matters.

We wholly agree and are outraged. Oren and Angie are great folks who only want to give back to the community. This is witch hunting in the first degree. His alleged partner in crime , however, got a slap on the wrist to testify against his "friend." The Daily Sun took great pleasure in their yellow journalistic approach to Oren's case. We think the Sun staff, and prosecutors in this should spend a week on the subways of New York or the streets of Chicago and see what real crime is.

[OhioBuckeye]

Well we don’t live in TV anymore but if we or anywhere else, I wouldn’t hang out with him or be his buddy. He the kind of person that I wouldn’t want him around us senior citizens. I don’t know could TV’s legally not allow him & his wife to live their as long as he did’t do anything wrong. We don’t know if any of the millions of illegals have a prison record!

[pirwin]

Isn't talking secretly what politicians do? Isn't that also what people who influence politicians also do? Of course, oaths have no meaning if an oath to tell the truth can be ignored with impunity, but how can one prove that an alleged liar has not simply misremembered, a failure of many of us in The Villages?

Then there is the elephant in the room. Why is a commonplace secret political conversation of such importance that it deserves a court case? Who benefits? Is Justice truly being served?

[midiwiz]

Now that Oren Miller is a convicted felon and is off the streets of the Villages does anyone feel safer? Let’s see, a harmless senior citizen whose trivial crime was misremembering (that’s a Roger Clemens term) the details of some telephone conversations is now behind bars. Meanwhile, wife beaters, drug dealers, drunken drivers, golf cart thieves, and many other dangerous criminals we should all be afraid of are walking around freely on our streets.

Something is seriously wrong with this picture. The moral of the story is that it’s not the crime one commits, it’s the people in high places that one rubs the wrong way that really matters.

well not when you look at the sex offenders site...... makes you go "hmmmmmm"

[jmaccallum]

I’d be very surprised if he got much time if any. Probably community service and probation.

This whole thing would have been a big nothingburger if he would have simply admitted that he made a mistake by secretly talking about county business. But instead he decided to lie under oath. That has proven to be a stupid decision.

Agree.

All he had to do was say, “Yeah, we made some phone calls. Sorry. Won’t happen again.” He would have been fined a couple hundred $$ and probably still be a commissioner. That’s how it has worked for many who have “inadvertently” compromised the Sunshine Laws in Florida.

[sallyg]

I think the message is crystal clear.

[airstreamingypsy]

I feel safer knowing he can’t build his wife her own personal multi million dollar animal rescue facility with our tax dollars.

It had nothing to do with the animal shelter. It had to do with Oren trying to protect the citizens of Sumter County from the developer with his hand in their pockets. Oren beat the developer's lackey in an election, so he had to be punished.

[waterflower]

The B.A.R. (british accredited registry)-who controls the judges and esq. They are loyal to the crown not we the people. Maritime law, common law. 2 constitutions, military law etc. It is all against us modern day slaves. SIR-slave I remain. Research research research.

[Kenswing]

The punishment hardly fit the crime.

If the sun had its way he would be public enemy number one.

In other words if the developer doesn't get his way one way he will get it another.

Remind me never to run for public office.

What punishment? He hasn’t even been sentenced yet.

[Cripe115]

I agree, he should have admitted he was wrong and I’ve wouldn’t be in jail, and grandpas shouldn’t lie.

[tuccillo]

He should have had council when he was interviewed under oath. I am assuming he didn't because I find it hard to believe any competent council would have allowed him to answer a question if he had any doubts about whether it was true. Alternatively, he should have not answered any questions. Hindsight, as they say, is 20/20.

I agree, he should have admitted he was wrong and I’ve wouldn’t be in jail, and grandpas shouldn’t lie.

[Wondering]

Now that Oren Miller is a convicted felon and is off the streets of the Villages does anyone feel safer? Let’s see, a harmless senior citizen whose trivial crime was misremembering (that’s a Roger Clemens term) the details of some telephone conversations is now behind bars. Meanwhile, wife beaters, drug dealers, drunken drivers, golf cart thieves, and many other dangerous criminals we should all be afraid of are walking around freely on our streets.

Something is seriously wrong with this picture. The moral of the story is that it’s not the crime one commits, it’s the people in high places that one rubs the wrong way that really matters.
Well said! Ain't that the truth!

[itrainum@aol.com]

Or hunter B just to keep this politically neutral.

[golfing eagles]

It had nothing to do with the animal shelter. It had to do with Oren trying to protect the citizens of Sumter County from the developer with his hand in their pockets. Oren beat the developer's lackey in an election, so he had to be punished.

That would be one view---essentially, it's OK to commit a felony if it is for "the greater good"

The other view would be that a lifelong member of one party switched for the sole purpose of getting elected, and then pursued an anti-"company" agenda in a company town, violated the state Sunshine statutes, then committed perjury and worst of all got caught. Now people want to look the other way???? I thought we were a nation of laws.

[ThomasMur]

He’s in jail for the (crimes) he committed. Hopefully he will learn from this and be a better person when he gets out.

[jmpalladino]

I’d be very surprised if he got much time if any. Probably community service and probation.

This whole thing would have been a big nothingburger if he would have simply admitted that he made a mistake by secretly talking about county business. But instead he decided to lie under oath. That has proven to be a stupid decision.

You should look up facts before responding, but why if one thinks facts do not matter? He was taken into custody after the verdict on Friday and will not be sentenced for 3 weeks. Thus he is incarcerated now, awaiting his sentence! That is just ridiculous!

[jmpalladino]

What punishment? He hasn’t even been sentenced yet.

He is in jail pending sentencing which has been scheduled for 3 weeks. Get the facts!

[Villagesgal]

The man knowingly broke the law, then lied about it. Laws are for all and are to be upheld. Surely some of these posters are not suggesting that because he's a nice guy he should be allowed to break the law. He knew what he was doing was illegal, he had been warned and continued breaking the law anyway. He was caught, he tried to lie his way out of it and then admitted it. He is a criminal, he was convicted by a jury. He broke the law and was caught. Yes, as some pointed out, many break the law, that is true, they are still criminals, they just haven't been caught yet.
He broke the law, he was caught breaking the law, he was convicted of breaking the law, that's how it works. Nice guy or not.

[Kenswing]

He is in jail pending sentencing which has been scheduled for 3 weeks. Get the facts!

:1rotfl: Why don’t you get the facts. At least read the entire thread before making yourself look more stupid. I posted that I was surprised that they held him until sentencing. He’s a nonviolent offender. But being held over isn’t punishment. It might feel like it but it’s just part of the procedure. I feel he should have been released pending sentencing. But I’m not the judge. Maybe the judge is holding him so when he does sentence him he’ll just get time served.

[merrymini]

It is always the lie to cover up that gets you in trouble. These guys were in over their heads and were naive to think they could do the things they promised. That being said, I have no dog in this fight, prison time for this would be absolutely uncalled for.

[PJackpot]

I’d be very surprised if he got much time if any. Probably community service and probation.

This whole thing would have been a big nothingburger if he would have simply admitted that he made a mistake by secretly talking about county business. But instead he decided to lie under oath. That has proven to be a stupid decision.

I don't get this whole not being able to talk about county business thing. Congress survives on that idea. Not only that, they are always arm twisting and threatening each other over congressional issues, but a county commissioner cannot? WTF?

[Kenswing]

I don't get this whole not being able to talk about county business thing. Congress survives on that idea. Not only that, they are always arm twisting and threatening each other over congressional issues, but a county commissioner cannot? WTF?

Don’t ask me. I didn’t make the law. I didn’t break the law. It’s the responsibility of the people in office to understand the law and not break it.

Again, this isn’t really even about breaking the Sunshine Law. It’s about committing perjury. He was convicted of perjury not for breaking the Sunshine Law.

[Dotgipe]

Prison is for dangerous offenders convicted of murder, rape or child molestation. Intelligent people can’t come up with better punishments??? It costs too much to put these people in prison

[quietpine]

Liars lie. This one got caught. That’s all we need to know about his character.

[golfing eagles]

Prison is for dangerous offenders convicted of murder, rape or child molestation. Intelligent people can’t come up with better punishments??? It costs too much to put these people in prison

So "lesser" criminal (drug dealers, burglars, assaulters, etc.) should be out on the streets among us???? Personally, I could easily come up with a lot more prison space with a lot less cost. Barracks, triple razor wire fence, machine gun towers, all surrounded by a minefield and a red line with a simple sign "Ye who enter here will die". Some farm implements, some seed, and a "cooler" for all the Steve McQueen wannabees. Simple, effective, and cheap. And I bet the crime rate would plummet as well.

[ThirdOfFive]

So "lesser" criminal (drug dealers, burglars, assaulters, etc.) should be out on the streets among us???? Personally, I could easily come up with a lot more prison space with a lot less cost. Barracks, triple razor wire fence, machine gun towers, all surrounded by a minefield and a red line with a simple sign "Ye who enter here will die". Some farm implements, some seed, and a "cooler" for all the Steve McQueen wannabees. Simple, effective, and cheap. And I bet the crime rate would plummet as well.
Two suggestions (only partially tongue-in-cheek…)

1. For all those convicts wanting “early release”, all prison cells should come equipped with a curtained-off area, a strong iron bar, and a noose.

2. For lesser crimes and felonies, offer the convict a choice between jail/prison time, or public flogging.

[jjombrello]

Are you serious? This guy lied under oath, not once but twice, and then tried to explain away his untruths. He broke the law and deserves to be punished. His partner in crime confessed and took the plea. He was offered the same deal and refused it. White collar crime is no different than other forms and a jury of his peers concluded he was guilty of lying. Crime is crime, or don't you believe that misdeeds should be prosecuted? This country is based on upholding its laws and without that we have anarchy, no matter who commits the crime.

[jimjamuser]

Absolutely the most brilliant idea I've ever heard of, eliminate the Sunshine Laws. Yeah!!! Let the politicians get behind closed doors and work out all kinds of back room deals that financially/politically benefit them and screw the taxpayers. I've got a news flash, politicians don't do anything behind closed doors that benefits the public. The only politician you can trust is the one you have with your gun to his head.
i can agree with the 1st couple of sentences, but not the last. For one thing, a GENERALIZATION that ALL (100%) politicians are not trustworthy.......essentially makes no sense. All people that vote are picking SOME trustworthy politicians. Then, invoking the word "gun" seems too over the top. Then, finally. use of the word "HIS", which could have been "their" because it is IMPORTANT to remember that women can ALSO become politicians.

This might seem like "nitpicking" to some, but words and language are powerful and show the attitudes of the writer.

[Bellavita]

Its a sad day in the villages when you can hit two people on a bicycles nearly kill them run from the crime and still not be in jail, When poor Orin made a phone call and is in jail.

A shot from over the bow to anyone who wants to run for public office and not tote the company line. Sure didn't feel like the "Friendliest Hometown".

Not only do they put him in jail until sentencing like a real criminal. wow just wow.

All of us should be outraged at the unbalance of the scales of justice.

Now that Oren Miller is a convicted felon and is off the streets of the Villages does anyone feel safer? Let’s see, a harmless senior citizen whose trivial crime was misremembering (that’s a Roger Clemens term) the details of some telephone conversations is now behind bars. Meanwhile, wife beaters, drug dealers, drunken drivers, golf cart thieves, and many other dangerous criminals we should all be afraid of are walking around freely on our streets.

Something is seriously wrong with this picture. The moral of the story is that it’s not the crime one commits, it’s the people in high places that one rubs the wrong way that really matters.

[Taltarzac725]

The way the paper handled this was appalling. They pretty much prosecuted him in the paper for months and often with front page articles. These were often repeated as well or so it seemed.

The man Oren Miller basically just went into the lion's den and did not realize this until it was too late.

Its a sad day in the villages when you can hit two people on a bicycles nearly kill them run from the crime and still not be in jail, When poor Orin made a phone call and is in jail.

A shot from over the bow to anyone who wants to run for public office and not tote the company line. Sure didn't feel like the "Friendliest Hometown".

Not only do they put him in jail until sentencing like a real criminal. wow just wow.

All of us should be outraged at the unbalance of the scales of justice.

[golfing eagles]

Its a sad day in the villages when you can hit two people on a bicycles nearly kill them run from the crime and still not be in jail, When poor Orin made a phone call and is in jail.

A shot from over the bow to anyone who wants to run for public office and not tote the company line. Sure didn't feel like the "Friendliest Hometown".

Not only do they put him in jail until sentencing like a real criminal. wow just wow.

All of us should be outraged at the unbalance of the scales of justice.

Here we go again. "Poor Orin".:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

"Poor Orin" began by running on a party ticket that he was in lifelong opposition to because he knew he would be unelectable if he stuck with them
He then took an oath of office that included abiding by the Sunshine statutes of Florida. He then broke those laws and his oath. He then committed FELONY PERJURY at least twice.

Yep, "poor Orin". Hate to think he might now be punished for his CRIMINAL ACTIVITY.

[yellowtownhouse]

It had nothing to do with the animal shelter. It had to do with Oren trying to protect the citizens of Sumter County from the developer with his hand in their pockets. Oren beat the developer's lackey in an election, so he had to be punished.

I have been reading thru this entire post waiting for someone to FINALLY speak the truth regarding what was REALLY behind this! Thank you "gypsy".........inquiring minds wanted to know.

[golfing eagles]

I have been reading thru this entire post waiting for someone to FINALLY speak the truth regarding what was REALLY behind this! Thank you "gypsy".........inquiring minds wanted to know.

Yeah, right:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

I think you'll find the truth in post #93

[Mrs.Guy]

Here we go again. "Poor Orin".:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

"Poor Orin" began by running on a party ticket that he was in lifelong opposition to because he knew he would be unelectable if he stuck with them
He then took an oath of office that included abiding by the Sunshine statutes of Florida. He then broke those laws and his oath. He then committed FELONY PERJURY at least twice.

Yep, "poor Orin". Hate to think he might now be punished for his CRIMINAL ACTIVITY.

Yeah, poor Oren! What if the commissioner's name was different and the outcome was the same..... well, then I think some of these posters feeling sorry for poor Oren would be lined up fighting with each other to mix up the cocktail for the lethal injection. :cryin2:

[Taltarzac725]

Yeah, poor Oren! What if the commissioner's name was different and the outcome was the same..... well, then I think some of these posters feeling sorry for poor Oren would be lined up fighting with each other to mix up the cocktail for the lethal injection. :cryin2:

Oren Miller will probably be OK after the dust settles. The image of the Villages will be dirtier though.

[Villages Kahuna]

The Developer always gets his way. That’s what you call hard ball politics.

Now the Sumter County board is back in the firm control of the Morse family. Thanks to them and Ron DeSantis, who appointed the replacements they proposed.

And that, my friends, is how you overturn a landslide election victory.

[kingofbeer]

So, they can't meet privately with activists or lobbyists?:icon_wink: :icon_wink:
Simple Sunshine Law example ... 2 or more members of the County Commission can not discuss county business privately.

[ThirdOfFive]

Simple Sunshine Law example ... 2 or more members of the County Commission can not discuss county business privately.
Except that he wasn't found guilty of violating Florida's sunshine law. He was found guilty of lying about it under oath. Hence, "perjury".

No special interest, developer-backed or otherwise, found Oren Miller guilty of perjury. A jury of his peers did that, in exactly (as I recall the report) twenty-seven minutes.

Oren Miller violated the law. A jury of his peers found that he was guilty of that beyond a reasonable doubt. The judge will now impose sentence as prescribed by law.

End of story.

[tophcfa]

Except that he wasn't found guilty of violating Florida's sunshine law. He was found guilty of lying about it under oath. Hence, "perjury".

That’s because violating the Sunshine law is a misdemeanor. The orchestrators of the witch hunt wanted to make a bold statement so nobody else would dare consider supporting policy that is inconsistent with their agenda. Hence the highly unusual allocation of state resources to find a way to cook up a felony charge on a county commissioner. If the county commissioner in question was Bradley Arnold instead of Oren Miller the whole thing would have been a total non event.

[Marathon Man]

There is a lesson in all this. If you are going up against the big guy who you think is dirty, you better stay clean yourself. Never hand a bullet to the guy with the gun.

[John-US]

Safe? nope- in the land of misfits

[Love2Swim]

Yeah, poor Oren! What if the commissioner's name was different and the outcome was the same..... well, then I think some of these posters feeling sorry for poor Oren would be lined up fighting with each other to mix up the cocktail for the lethal injection. :cryin2:

No they wouldn't, because they don't think that way, with such negativity and hate.

[jimjamuser]

Great, you're a psychiatrist, could I get a few sessions with you? Back when I was about 11 years old my parents didn't buy this red Schwinn bicycle I wanted. I was devastated as the neighbor boy had gotten a brand new one for his birthday and I was so envious. Is that the reason I use words that have subconscious meanings? Come on jim, I could really use some help to understand why I do what I do!
Good, we have made a minor breakthrough. We have established that the Id possesses a sense of humor. We can build on that in our next session. Check with my secretary about the next available time slot.

[DAVES]

For the most part, I hope the sunshine law is widely dis-regarded. I can't imagine any responsible leaders not talking with each other outside of formal meetings. It seems business would grind to a halt if they didn't.

Now why Miller didn't take a plea bargain if offered the same as his partner in crime is beyond me especially when he knew he was going to testify against him. But then again, maybe the pleas deal wasn't really offered to him.

And I'm disappointed about the tax payers dollars spent on this case. I sure hope he doesn't get sentenced to more jail time for his crime. I think the stress he's already gone through will keep him from taking on politicians in the future.

And I agree to throw him in jail awaiting sentencing is over the top. It reminds me of how many high level convicted folks are out on appeal - why not Miller.

One thing I can be almost glad for is the reporting on this case is hopefully almost done. It's been embarrassing.

Our legal system. Assuming the person in INNOCENT. You are offered an, "opportunity," to go to trial and that is VERY expensive and risky-you can, reminder INNOCENT, be found guilty.
You are often offered another, "opportunity," and that is to sign that you are guilty of a lesser crime. Reminder-you are not guilty.

[jimjamuser]

So "lesser" criminal (drug dealers, burglars, assaulters, etc.) should be out on the streets among us???? Personally, I could easily come up with a lot more prison space with a lot less cost. Barracks, triple razor wire fence, machine gun towers, all surrounded by a minefield and a red line with a simple sign "Ye who enter here will die". Some farm implements, some seed, and a "cooler" for all the Steve McQueen wannabees. Simple, effective, and cheap. And I bet the crime rate would plummet as well.
Yes, drug dealers. assaulters, and burglars should NOT be out on the street among us. But, unfortunately, they ARE because the Police only catch a certain % of them. Which is supposed to be a deterrent, and it is. But, maybe social changes would be an equal or better deterrent. As to the remainder of the post.........it seemed to me, to be heavy on the Draconian side.

[ThirdOfFive]

Our legal system. Assuming the person in INNOCENT. You are offered an, "opportunity," to go to trial and that is VERY expensive and risky-you can, reminder INNOCENT, be found guilty.
You are often offered another, "opportunity," and that is to sign that you are guilty of a lesser crime. Reminder-you are not guilty.
I think the above quote points out a rather serious flaw in our system; i.e. "the best justice money can buy". If you have the bucks and can afford a top-notch lawyer, you have a much better chance of getting away with a lot more than some guy who ends up with a public defender.

This is not to degrade public defenders. They earn their salary and more. But they are often overworked, representing several clients, and just do not have the time or resources to spend on a case that a big-dollar private attorney might have.

[Moderator]

Any more snarkiness closes the thread.

[tophcfa]

Yes, drug dealers. assaulters, and burglars should NOT be out on the street among us. But, unfortunately, they ARE because the Police only catch a certain % of them.

It’s just like fishing in the ponds and lakes in the Villages, “catch and release”. The police catch them and the judicial system throws them back.