US Citizens fighting Recession

[RICH1]

Who really understands Supply Inflation? How are high Interest Rates going to control rising labor and material costs? Does demoralizing the American citizen ever create a positive growth experience for the future of this country…sales of “ happy pills” by the Pharmaceutical companies are reaching an all time high..

[ThirdOfFive]

Who really understands Supply Inflation? How are high Interest Rates going to control rising labor and material costs? Does demoralizing the American citizen ever create a positive growth experience for the future of this country…sales of “ happy pills” by the Pharmaceutical companies are reaching an all time high..
Who knows? Hard to discuss this topic without unveiling the dreaded "P" word.

But "does demoralizing the American citizen ever create a positive growth experience for the future of this country"? In a weird way, I think yes. History shows this to us. The stock market crash followed by the Great Depression plunged a prosperous nation into a decade-long period of high unemployment, soup kitchens, and rampant homelessness, migrations of people to hoped-for greener pastures not seen since the great push westward of the 19th century. But we came out of it better. We knew the people who accomplished it. They were our mothers and fathers--still, in some rare cases, us. Immediately following the depression, they were the soldiers, sailors and airmen who fought a two-front war on opposite ends of the globe. The won--not so much because of military acumen or exception bravery, but because of the industries back home that employed their wives and mothers.

They were "The Greatest Generation".

I was privileged to interview my mother shortly before she died, about life in that time. What I knew about the Great Depression and WW2 I learned from history books. Dad fought in the Pacific theater (won the Bronze Star for his part in the liberation of the Santo Tomas prison in Manila) but he never much talked about it. Mostly to say that He acquired a great deal of respect for the Japanese during his tenure there as part of the army of occupation. He also carried a couple of bills of "occupation money" that he showed us. But otherwise--no. Mom the same. It was characteristic of that generation. But the stuff I learned from Mom was priceless. She talked about how, during the height of the depression, people came together. People doing laundry for one another, often walking more than a mile with a full basket as gasoline was saved only for important tasks, such a plowing or rare trips for supplies. My uncle--my namesake, actually--died at age 8 of rheumatic fever during that time. His family buried him in an unmarked grave as there was no money for anything resembling a modern funeral; certainly none for a headstone. His father--my grandfather--dug his son's grave.

Fast-forward to America 2022. Our worries are largely how inflation will affect our stockpile of money, or how the rollercoaster economy is going to impact our investments. The generations that came after us, in many cases, expect the government to either help pay or forgive the student loans that they incurred going to school for the relatively lucrative job they now have, and in too many cases bemoan the fact that they're not being paid what THEY think they're worth. Our dreams are of grandiose visions of how we can save the planet. Or whether or not spending the money to robotically explore the solar system is justified. Or which EV is best. In short, we argue and bicker about things that simply had no impact at all on the lives of The Greatest Generation. THEIR concern was having enough to eat. Or a place to sleep. Or winning a war. I often wonder just what that generation would think, if they had a glimpse into OUR reality and compared it to theirs. I'm afraid they'd see what we have and are, as heaven, compared to their reality.

“Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.” This quote by author G. Michael Hopf says it perfectly, and our history proves it. The best steel is tempered in fire, after all. No one knows how long the current ills will last--or comparatively, if they're even ills at all--but I have no doubt that, in the end, we'll come out on the other side better than when we went into it. It is the American way, after all.

[Kenswing]

What’s the over/under on this thread? :1rotfl:

[RICH1]

We have very similar experiences. I really hope your right! You have raised my spirits and I Thank you for that … This most recent Railroad Contractual issue is most definitely a “ P” word discussion!

[DAVES]

Who really understands Supply Inflation? How are high Interest Rates going to control rising labor and material costs? Does demoralizing the American citizen ever create a positive growth experience for the future of this country…sales of “ happy pills” by the Pharmaceutical companies are reaching an all time high..

It has perhaps become a national obsession with complaining. Things are not that bad.
We read about Ukraine. Imagine living wondering when troops will come through or cannons and or missals? Our CPI consumer price index hit 9.1% an it is now 8.2%. I read that in England it is 10%.

Far as, "happy pills," WE are the cause. People choose to take them.

Terms-a soft landing. What does it mean? Perhaps like my post. It could be worse.

[Keefelane66]

We have very similar experiences. I really hope your right! You have raised my spirits and I Thank you for that … This most recent Railroad Contractual issue is most definitely a “ P” word discussion!
Surprising in 2022 people still need to fight for sick benefits. Greed is the worst evil combined profits of railroads this year $25 billion with diesel fuel $5+. Corporation are trying to pull the wool over our eyes, yet they are all reporting exceptionally good earnings.

[DAVES]

We have very similar experiences. I really hope your right! You have raised my spirits and I Thank you for that … This most recent Railroad Contractual issue is most definitely a “ P” word discussion!

Far as the railroad strike. The whole set up is INSANE. They regularly go on strike in the last quarter. Many retailers the holiday selling season decides if they will be in business next year. They typically have many different unions. One goes on strike and the others refuse to cross the picket line. They are not on strike so they are still paid while refusing to work.
Management, negotiating to prevent a strike, know that whatever the union guys get they will get a similar package. Many railroads have a fireman his job is to tend the non-existent steam boiler for the steam locomotive.

[vintageogauge]

Surprising in 2022 people still need to fight for sick benefits. Greed is the worst evil combined profits of railroads this year $25 billion with diesel fuel $5+. Corporation are trying to pull the wool over our eyes, yet they are all reporting exceptionally good earnings.

And there are still 10 million or so unfilled jobs out there, what's up with that?

[DAVES]

Surprising in 2022 people still need to fight for sick benefits. Greed is the worst evil combined profits of railroads this year $25 billion with diesel fuel $5+. Corporation are trying to pull the wool over our eyes, yet they are all reporting exceptionally good earnings.

We all view things based on our bias. Fair balanced is in the eye of the beholder.
A corporation is not evil it is a business format. We all can choose to purchase stock, RISK YOUR MONEY, YOUR SAVINGS, and benefit. The offered contract is if, I recall a huge raise RETROACTIVE going back three years. The sick days are PAID sick days. I am an EVIL stock owner. I do not have a pension and am living on dividends. Interesting reality those with a pension it was untaxed income to the pensioner. The pension money is invested in the stock market.

[jimbomaybe]

Who really understands Supply Inflation? How are high Interest Rates going to control rising labor and material costs? Does demoralizing the American citizen ever create a positive growth experience for the future of this country…sales of “ happy pills” by the Pharmaceutical companies are reaching an all time high..

The more money the government prints /puts in the hands of the citizenry increases demand without any work product, ie goods and services= inflation, the Fed is designed to be independent raising , lowering interest rates to adjust supply and demand , only two ways to lower inflation is to raise interest rates lowering demand or raise productivity something businesses are always trying to do, the Fed only has control of rates

[Two Bills]

I was born in UK and grew up during and in the aftermath of WW2.
Poor meant poor in those years.
We had nothing, yet we survived.
Poor today is nothing compared to those times.
Successive generations have had it so good, they have lost their power of making do in bad times.
I have no sympathy for Villagers screaming poverty and hardship.
If they are living above their means, have to big a mortgage etc. tough, downsize until your income meets your needs.
Most have never had it so good.

[RICH1]

I was born in UK and grew up during and in the aftermath of WW2.
Poor meant poor in those years.
We had nothing, yet we survived.
Poor today is nothing compared to those times.
Successive generations have had it so good, they have lost their power of making do in bad times.
I have no sympathy for Villagers screaming poverty and hardship.
If they are living above their means, have to big a mortgage etc. tough, downsize until your income meets your needs.
Most have never had it so good.
I agree…100 %…..

[Stu from NYC]

I was born in UK and grew up during and in the aftermath of WW2.
Poor meant poor in those years.
We had nothing, yet we survived.
Poor today is nothing compared to those times.
Successive generations have had it so good, they have lost their power of making do in bad times.
I have no sympathy for Villagers screaming poverty and hardship.
If they are living above their means, have to big a mortgage etc. tough, downsize until your income meets your needs.
Most have never had it so good.

/very true

[Stu from NYC]

Far as the railroad strike. The whole set up is INSANE. They regularly go on strike in the last quarter. Many retailers the holiday selling season decides if they will be in business next year. They typically have many different unions. One goes on strike and the others refuse to cross the picket line. They are not on strike so they are still paid while refusing to work.
Management, negotiating to prevent a strike, know that whatever the union guys get they will get a similar package. Many railroads have a fireman his job is to tend the non-existent steam boiler for the steam locomotive.

Amazing how it is has to come to unions protecting workers for jobs that have no reason to exist. Once upon a time unions existed for a good reason, now not so much. Sad.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

interesting view fo the railroad strike and the history of how they got here

Rail Strike: Why The Railroads Won’t Give In on Paid Leave (https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022/11/rail-strike-why-the-railroads-wont-give-in-on-paid-leave-psr-precision-scheduled-railroading.html)

F* corporatism

[Stu from NYC]

interesting view fo the railroad strike and the history of how they got here

Rail Strike: Why The Railroads Won’t Give In on Paid Leave (https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022/11/rail-strike-why-the-railroads-wont-give-in-on-paid-leave-psr-precision-scheduled-railroading.html)

F* corporatism

Seems to be a very slanted story. No word on salaries for the employees or featherbedding.

[Worldseries27]

far as the railroad strike. The whole set up is insane. They regularly go on strike in the last quarter. Many retailers the holiday selling season decides if they will be in business next year. They typically have many different unions. One goes on strike and the others refuse to cross the picket line. They are not on strike so they are still paid while refusing to work.
Management, negotiating to prevent a strike, know that whatever the union guys get they will get a similar package. Many railroads have a fireman his job is to tend the non-existent steam boiler for the steam locomotive.
your referring to pattern bargaining. One accepts then they all do.
Obsolete job titles are kept in contract books as a holding spot. Unions and management meet in arbitration and sometimes to settle a discilplinary action the individual rather than being discharged is transferred to that title. So effectively their pay is cut and they are generally used as helpers with the chance of regaining their former position by accrediting themselves in the future

[Dilligas]

Surprising in 2022 people still need to fight for sick benefits. Greed is the worst evil combined profits of railroads this year $25 billion with diesel fuel $5+. Corporation are trying to pull the wool over our eyes, yet they are all reporting exceptionally good earnings.
Even in the corporate and education world, “sick day benefits “ produce liars out of everyone. Too many workers call in “sick” to take another day off from work. Instead of having Dr appointments, they are found at the ball game, shopping, or playing golf..etc. Some organizations tried adding sick days to vacation days, but then the workers wanted more days. Many jobs that had sick days required you to “use em or loose em”, instead of carrying over for long term illnesses……so liars again to avoid loosing another day off from work.

[spinner1001]

It has perhaps become a national obsession with complaining. Things are not that bad.

Precisely. The traditional media sells more advertising by raising passions of outrage, worry, and so on. Social media is mostly an echo chamber of whatever group you want to listen to. The noise-to-signal ratio from our devices is very high. More device time isn’t healthy. But it’s easy to tune out much of the noise if we try — beginning with the on-off switch.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Seems to be a very slanted story. No word on salaries for the employees or featherbedding.

all depends upon if the points the article make, confirms or not, your current beliefs of how the railroads should work.

Personally I have no experience with how a railroad works or should work. I only have maritime transportation industry experience. The article gave me insights to how the optimization processes have transformed a traditional industry from labor intensive to minimal labor. However, the industry appears very similar to the airline industry with scheduling optimization. Lots of federal airline regulation for labor requirements, max hours, backup requirements, similar to the maritime industry with continuous testing and safety education requirements, minimum labor requirements to work in the industry. Not so much with railroads. . . . obviously.

That technology transformation in labor reduction means less opportunities for future employment, seen it, been part of it, assisted in it in some places. There are many, many secondary and tertiary effects which are very similar to the monopolies and trusts of the 1920s and 30's, with the industrial transformation.

glad I am almost watching and not participating.

[crash]

It has perhaps become a national obsession with complaining. Things are not that bad.
We read about Ukraine. Imagine living wondering when troops will come through or cannons and or missals? Our CPI consumer price index hit 9.1% an it is now 8.2%. I read that in England it is 10%.

Far as, "happy pills," WE are the cause. People choose to take them.

Terms-a soft landing. What does it mean? Perhaps like my post. It could be worse.

Soft landing means reducing inflation without going into a recession. Increasing interest rates decreases borrowing and thus spending which in turn reduces inflation. Less spending leads to layoffs which decreases spending more and in return lowers inflation but put us in a recession. It is not a U.S. only phenomenon but world wide and worse for most of the world.

[Brwne]

Seems to be a very slanted story. No word on salaries for the employees or featherbedding.

Check into the history of railroad Union negotiations for a point where increased wages were traded for no or little sick leave. Therein may be the answer to the reluctance to add it now...

[Berwin]

When I was getting my MBA in the 70s, the economics course I had to take taught that when unemployment went below 5%, inflation would result. When unemployment started dropping after the COVID recovery, I posted that concern and was poo-pooed by friends saying that theory had been debunked. And yet here we are, with unemployment low and inflation raging.

[Blackbird45]

I represented the union I belong to and was the single negotiator for a number of contracts. One that I was proud of had 27 signatures, 26 from their side of the table and mine. What it boils down in most cases is the employer's representatives are sent in with a parameter they have to stick to, and they usually try to go below that to secure their own jobs. The employers send in his representatives with one thing in mind, profits and what it takes to get what they want doesn't matter. I on the other hand would go in with a number of demands from my members which I knew many were ridiculous, but I had to put it on the table. Once you pass the nonsense and if everyone entered this in good faith you would come with settlement. I settled one contract in day most others took months. It's a tug of war. As in many negotiations you knew you had a fair contract when either both parties left the table happy or unhappy. I approached these negotiations with two priorities to ensure my members had a safe environment to work in and to get them what would be a fair salary. Many people will blame the employers and many people will blame the unions, but until you're sitting at the table you really shouldn't pass judgment.

[villager7591]

The complaining is from the self-inflicted wounds.

[Stu from NYC]

all depends upon if the points the article make, confirms or not, your current beliefs of how the railroads should work.



Have to disagree with this. Have no idea how railroad should work no experience other than every once in awhile being a passenger.

Think the writer had his point of view and was not at all a balanced article. Wonder if the writer was a member of the railroad union?

[kkingston57]

What’s the over/under on this thread? :1rotfl:

Best reply to a ? where in 90%+ of the world do not have the expertise to answer these ?s.

[Worldseries27]

when i was getting my mba in the 70s, the economics course i had to take taught that when unemployment went below 5%, inflation would result. When unemployment started dropping after the covid recovery, i posted that concern and was poo-pooed by friends saying that theory had been debunked. And yet here we are, with unemployment low and inflation raging.
which shows you that your friends had agendas not economic principles to back their beliefs upon

[kkingston57]

And there are still 10 million or so unfilled jobs out there, what's up with that?

Most of those jobs are for very unskilled labor, such as in the restaurant industry. Went to 2 restuaruants last week. Both 1/2 full and both had 15 minute wait times. Saw 1 maybe 2 wait staff walking around when we waited to hear that there was a 15 minute wait. Also, affecting skilled workers. Have a relative who can not find engineers in S. Florida. They can not afford to live there in a decent neighborhood, with a starting salary of 125K+.

[Bay Kid]

When I had a state job in the '70s we had sick leave. When I quit I had many sick leave days available. I was told by my fellow workers to be sick during the last month to use up my sick leave.

Dad called it slick leave.

[Ptmckiou]

Who really understands Supply Inflation? How are high Interest Rates going to control rising labor and material costs? Does demoralizing the American citizen ever create a positive growth experience for the future of this country…sales of “ happy pills” by the Pharmaceutical companies are reaching an all time high..

1. Supply Inflation - Since 90% of our supplies are manufactured by China, and they have been shutting thr country down every time someone gets COVID the past several years, it shuts down manufacturing and shipping, This causes months of delays, so IF there are still Widget A in stock in the USA, the price climbs because there are few of them and no guarantee of when we will bet more. Solution…bring manufacturing back to USA p, BUT not so fast. Workers in in China make A lot less than workers in USA, so that would send the prices of our products even more. No easy solution.

2. When FEDs raise interest rates, then when banks loan money it costs the consumer more for that product (aka mortgages, etc). Thereby, consumers stop purchasing those products and the prices then have to drop to compete with the shrinking group of purchasers that can still afford to purchase. It slows down the economic engine, so prices have to come down to try an attract buyers that have been pushed out of the market. It’s a fine line…reduce consumer spending without pushing the econ9my into a recession. The number to watch is unemployment. There has never been a recession with low unemployment. People are working, so we aren’t in a recession. If unemployment goes from 3% to 5%: then long term hurt on the horizon. So farm things are looking very good…gas is down, and some other prices down. It’s working.

3. Take responsibility for yourself. No one forced anyone to take drugs. Not even your doctor. Several times I’ve had doctors try to prescribe a pill and I say, “No” and I ask the alternative. Like too high of blood pressure, or glucose….losing weight helped me being the numbers back to normal. If a person is abusing a pill, it’s the person taking the pills fault. No one else. Take response your actions. Also, read up on stuff you put in your mouth. Read articles from the Mayo or Cleveland clinic, or WebMD about the product or issue. Educate yourself on alternatives. It’s your body, and YOUR responsibility what you ingest into it. BTW…”happiness” is a choice. Either you see the glass half-full, or you see the glass half-empty. Same two people looking at the exact same glass, and see something different. It’s not the glass fault….it’s you perspective. Change your perspective (turn lemons into lemonade in your head) and you’ll change your life.

[JMintzer]

Seems to be a very slanted story. No word on salaries for the employees or featherbedding.

Precisely...

I stopped reading after this:

"For months, the world’s largest economy has been teetering on the brink of collapse because America’s latter-day robber barons can’t comprehend that workers sometimes get sick."

[Bogie Shooter]

:icon_bored:::popcorn:

[Birdrm]

Even in the corporate and education world, “sick day benefits “ produce liars out of everyone. Too many workers call in “sick” to take another day off from work. Instead of having Dr appointments, they are found at the ball game, shopping, or playing golf..etc. Some organizations tried adding sick days to vacation days, but then the workers wanted more days. Many jobs that had sick days required you to “use em or loose em”, instead of carrying over for long term illnesses……so liars again to avoid loosing another day off from work.

My company has found and implemented a solution, we have no set number of vacation or sick days, we have a quoted number of billable hours that must be reached and it is that simple.

[rogerrice60]

Excellent Response!
We are a spoiled generation..

God Bless

[rogerrice60]

Excellent

[The Chipster]

Who really understands Supply Inflation? How are high Interest Rates going to control rising labor and material costs? Does demoralizing the American citizen ever create a positive growth experience for the future of this country…sales of “ happy pills” by the Pharmaceutical companies are reaching an all time high..

Raising the interest rate to cool off our super-heated economy is the only solution to inflation. This is a global situation, and our government is doing the right thing, although it is painful.

[jimjamuser]

Who really understands Supply Inflation? How are high Interest Rates going to control rising labor and material costs? Does demoralizing the American citizen ever create a positive growth experience for the future of this country…sales of “ happy pills” by the Pharmaceutical companies are reaching an all time high..
I'll take a shot at that. Supply inflation is caused by the higher cost of a barrel of oil due to Russia's war with Ukraine. Also, China mismanaged its Covid problem which leaves fewer imports from China which drives up prices, resulting in increased inflation. The answer to the 2nd question is that the FED uses its only tool, the prime interest rate increases, to make large companies and home buyers pay more for loans thus discouraging building more factories and homes. The ripple effect is like applying BRAKES to the general overheated economy. Thus hoping to cool the general economy down. many experts think that the FED began the BRAKING too LATE this time and now may NOT get it exactly right - thus driving the economy into a recession. Historically, the FED has misjudged roughly 80% of the time.

As to "happy pills"........I believe that the Pharmaceutical Industry got EXTRA greedy and OVERHYPED oxycodone. Then China and maybe Mexico wanted to cause chaos and make drug money in the US and ended up supplying Fentanyl, which has succeeded in killing a whole middle age demographic group in the US. Lots of ruined lives!!!!!!!

[jimjamuser]

1. Supply Inflation - Since 90% of our supplies are manufactured by China, and they have been shutting thr country down every time someone gets COVID the past several years, it shuts down manufacturing and shipping, This causes months of delays, so IF there are still Widget A in stock in the USA, the price climbs because there are few of them and no guarantee of when we will bet more. Solution…bring manufacturing back to USA p, BUT not so fast. Workers in in China make A lot less than workers in USA, so that would send the prices of our products even more. No easy solution.

2. When FEDs raise interest rates, then when banks loan money it costs the consumer more for that product (aka mortgages, etc). Thereby, consumers stop purchasing those products and the prices then have to drop to compete with the shrinking group of purchasers that can still afford to purchase. It slows down the economic engine, so prices have to come down to try an attract buyers that have been pushed out of the market. It’s a fine line…reduce consumer spending without pushing the econ9my into a recession. The number to watch is unemployment. There has never been a recession with low unemployment. People are working, so we aren’t in a recession. If unemployment goes from 3% to 5%: then long term hurt on the horizon. So farm things are looking very good…gas is down, and some other prices down. It’s working.

3. Take responsibility for yourself. No one forced anyone to take drugs. Not even your doctor. Several times I’ve had doctors try to prescribe a pill and I say, “No” and I ask the alternative. Like too high of blood pressure, or glucose….losing weight helped me being the numbers back to normal. If a person is abusing a pill, it’s the person taking the pills fault. No one else. Take response your actions. Also, read up on stuff you put in your mouth. Read articles from the Mayo or Cleveland clinic, or WebMD about the product or issue. Educate yourself on alternatives. It’s your body, and YOUR responsibility what you ingest into it. BTW…”happiness” is a choice. Either you see the glass half-full, or you see the glass half-empty. Same two people looking at the exact same glass, and see something different. It’s not the glass fault….it’s you perspective. Change your perspective (turn lemons into lemonade in your head) and you’ll change your life.
With respect to # 1 .....The US could make products at prices competitive with China. Shipping costs would be saved. The US would need to be to invest further in A.I. and automated manufacturing, which it will have to do in the future anyway. Right now CEOs are reluctant to change away from outsourcing to China and other countries because they are making solid profits from outsourcing as it exists and CHANGE is always difficult.
One big mistake that the US made a few decades ago was moving R +D out of the Universities and into the various industries. Also, everyone knows that China steals our technology. WE built up China into a world power, now we have to deal with the Frankenstein's monster of our own creation.

[K Paul Johnson]

Hard times make for hard people. Hard people make for soft times. Soft times make for soft people. Soft people make for hard times.....

We are entering the last phase of the cycle folks. Might be there for a while.

[Stu from NYC]

Raising the interest rate to cool off our super-heated economy is the only solution to inflation. This is a global situation, and our government is doing the right thing, although it is painful.

The other solution to cool off the economy would be for our govt to stop running a huge deficit.

[jimbomaybe]

The other solution to cool off the economy would be for our govt to stop running a huge deficit.

Spending public money is popular , never fail , tactic for political success, cut social spending ? ,raise taxes ? , businesses move " offshore" to lower expenses / prices, first it was manufacturing, when's the last time you called customer services and talked to someone who's first language was english,, "one's demeanor at the feast depends on who's ox was gored to provide said feast"

[jebartle]

The other solution to cool off the economy would be for our govt to stop running a huge deficit.

We are reducing the deficit NOW. 1.4 Trillion reduction this year.

[tuccillo]

Why don't you tell the whole story? The deficit for FY 2021 was $2.8T. The deficit for FY 2022 was $1.4T. So, instead of spending $2.8T more than the amount of tax revenue in FY 2021, the government only spent $1.4T more than the amount of tax revenue in FY 2022. Yes, I guess that is a $1.4T reduction in the deficit. The government only collected $4.9T in taxes for FY 2022 and they spent $6.3T. Doesn't sound so great anymore, does it? Numbers are meaningless without context.

We are reducing the deficit NOW. 1.4 Trillion reduction this year.

[Bay Kid]

It is a shame the people in charge don't have any idea how to run a business, or even a household budget.

[Caymus]

We are reducing the deficit NOW. 1.4 Trillion reduction this year.

Maybe it is because somebody did not get as many massive spending bills passed as he wanted.

[Love2Swim]

I was born in UK and grew up during and in the aftermath of WW2.
Poor meant poor in those years.
We had nothing, yet we survived.
Poor today is nothing compared to those times.
Successive generations have had it so good, they have lost their power of making do in bad times.
I have no sympathy for Villagers screaming poverty and hardship.
If they are living above their means, have to big a mortgage etc. tough, downsize until your income meets your needs.
Most have never had it so good.

I agree. So sick of the whining.

[Stu from NYC]

It is a shame the people in charge don't have any idea how to run a business, or even a household budget.

Other things more important to them. Sad isnt it.

[JMintzer]

We are reducing the deficit NOW. 1.4 Trillion reduction this year.

Only when compared to the HUGE deficit that was run up with all of the Covid spending...

Just wait until the "Inflation Reduction Act" kicks in...

[JMintzer]

I'll take a shot at that. Supply inflation is caused by the higher cost of a barrel of oil due to Russia's war with Ukraine. Also, China mismanaged its Covid problem which leaves fewer imports from China which drives up prices, resulting in increased inflation. The answer to the 2nd question is that the FED uses its only tool, the prime interest rate increases, to make large companies and home buyers pay more for loans thus discouraging building more factories and homes. The ripple effect is like applying BRAKES to the general overheated economy. Thus hoping to cool the general economy down. many experts think that the FED began the BRAKING too LATE this time and now may NOT get it exactly right - thus driving the economy into a recession. Historically, the FED has misjudged roughly 80% of the time.

As to "happy pills"........I believe that the Pharmaceutical Industry got EXTRA greedy and OVERHYPED oxycodone. Then China and maybe Mexico wanted to cause chaos and make drug money in the US and ended up supplying Fentanyl, which has succeeded in killing a whole middle age demographic group in the US. Lots of ruined lives!!!!!!!

You completely ignore the Govt's huge infusion of cash over the last two years...

More $$$ = more competition for goods and services...

[Stu from NYC]

You completely ignore the Govt's huge infusion of cash over the last two years...

More $$$ = more competition for goods and services...

Economics 101 should have been a required course.

[JMintzer]

Economics 101 should have been a required course.

I was a Biology major in college. I took Econ 101 as an elective...

My professor was stunned that I actually CHOSE to take the course.. It was the easiest course I took that semester...

I still remember the first words he uttered at the first lecture of the semester... "There's no such thing as a free lunch..."

"Guns & Butter"! :p

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Economics 101 should have been a required course.

1950's based rational humans' decision theory has been totally debunked with behavioral economics. No better than home economics. Totally ignores emotional bias decision making by humans who can easily fool themselves

as seen in the last two years with too much money floating around, and how humans make very poor suboptimal decisions, or reflected in bitcoin/tulips.

Finance/portfolio theory a much more practical decision making course.

[justjim]

I grew up in the 40’s, 50’s and into adulthood in 1960. I am the Son of a coal miner and grandson of a coal miner. I remember the day after day funerals in my hometown from the mine explosion that killed 109 men. It was the best of times and the worst of times. Greed then and greed now. USA may not be the best Country in the world but it’s way ahead of whatever is in second place. Fore!

[justjim]

Our government is a government of the people, by the people and for the people. As such, it is not a business which is entirely different. Do you get that?

[Stu from NYC]

Our government is a government of the people, by the people and for the people. As such, it is not a business which is entirely different. Do you get that?

I get that, but unfortunately the people that represent us have sold out to special interests. Do you get that?

Do you think our tax monies are spent wisely?

[jimjamuser]

Why don't you tell the whole story? The deficit for FY 2021 was $2.8T. The deficit for FY 2022 was $1.4T. So, instead of spending $2.8T more than the amount of tax revenue in FY 2021, the government only spent $1.4T more than the amount of tax revenue in FY 2022. Yes, I guess that is a $1.4T reduction in the deficit. The government only collected $4.9T in taxes for FY 2022 and they spent $6.3T. Doesn't sound so great anymore, does it? Numbers are meaningless without context.
It is pretty hard to CONTROL the national debt when population increases are out of CONTROL.
........Also, as ONE simple example of where government costs have increased is the problem caused by all the FIRES out west. 7 out of the last 8 years have had RECORD HEAT. Ask yourself, what CAUSED that? It is a problem that is basically being ignored at this time, but it won't go away - and it cost lives every year and it INCREASES costs to state and Federal governments. Killer hurricane IAN has cost and will cost Floridians and the
Federal government MANY billions of dollars. Also, homeowners insurance will rise and is now the highest in the US. That problem was ignored in the US and has not been worked on for the last 30 years. Europe has worked on that problem. Also, Europe and Australia have more efficient health care which allows their societies to be more work efficient and worry less - that leads to improved GNP which allows those countries to take IN more tax money which lowers their National debt.

These are just a few examples of how America could better CONTROL its national debt. And I have not even mentioned tax brackets and percentages.

[jimjamuser]

Only when compared to the HUGE deficit that was run up with all of the Covid spending...

Just wait until the "Inflation Reduction Act" kicks in...
Covid was typical in that in the US there was a HUGE time delay before solutions were implemented. In the free world, there were countries that reacted sooner than the US. However, the US reacted significantly better than Russia and China.

[jimjamuser]

You completely ignore the Govt's huge infusion of cash over the last two years...

More $$$ = more competition for goods and services...
"competition for goods and services" is the capitalist American system that works so much better than Russia and China. Large numbers of companies (competitors) in ANY GIVEN industry force prices DOWN. It is MONOPOLIES and duopolies that screw up the American FREE market and drive prices UP. Are LARGE industrial FARMS as good for America as the small individual farmers? I think NOT. Is the oil and gas industries competitive enough? I think NOT. Are the Kock brothers (now just one) good for America? I think NOT. Note that they were one of the last companies to pull out of Russia. Was that patriotic or an example of monopolistic behavior?

Recessions weaken America and will create a bigger homeless situation than we have today. Many homeowners will lose jobs and their large homes with high mortgages. And the speculators will dive in like greedy vultures! We all have to keep our fingers crossed that the Fed can get us out of this dire economic situation, even though they started too late.

[jimjamuser]

1950's based rational humans' decision theory has been totally debunked with behavioral economics. No better than home economics. Totally ignores emotional bias decision making by humans who can easily fool themselves

as seen in the last two years with too much money floating around, and how humans make very poor suboptimal decisions, or reflected in bitcoin/tulips.

Finance/portfolio theory a much more practical decision making course.
I can basically agree with that. Well stated. Economics 101 was merely a relatively easy course designed as an introduction only.

[Pairadocs]

Who knows? Hard to discuss this topic without unveiling the dreaded "P" word.

But "does demoralizing the American citizen ever create a positive growth experience for the future of this country"? In a weird way, I think yes. History shows this to us. The stock market crash followed by the Great Depression plunged a prosperous nation into a decade-long period of high unemployment, soup kitchens, and rampant homelessness, migrations of people to hoped-for greener pastures not seen since the great push westward of the 19th century. But we came out of it better. We knew the people who accomplished it. They were our mothers and fathers--still, in some rare cases, us. Immediately following the depression, they were the soldiers, sailors and airmen who fought a two-front war on opposite ends of the globe. The won--not so much because of military acumen or exception bravery, but because of the industries back home that employed their wives and mothers.

They were "The Greatest Generation".

I was privileged to interview my mother shortly before she died, about life in that time. What I knew about the Great Depression and WW2 I learned from history books. Dad fought in the Pacific theater (won the Bronze Star for his part in the liberation of the Santo Tomas prison in Manila) but he never much talked about it. Mostly to say that He acquired a great deal of respect for the Japanese during his tenure there as part of the army of occupation. He also carried a couple of bills of "occupation money" that he showed us. But otherwise--no. Mom the same. It was characteristic of that generation. But the stuff I learned from Mom was priceless. She talked about how, during the height of the depression, people came together. People doing laundry for one another, often walking more than a mile with a full basket as gasoline was saved only for important tasks, such a plowing or rare trips for supplies. My uncle--my namesake, actually--died at age 8 of rheumatic fever during that time. His family buried him in an unmarked grave as there was no money for anything resembling a modern funeral; certainly none for a headstone. His father--my grandfather--dug his son's grave.

Fast-forward to America 2022. Our worries are largely how inflation will affect our stockpile of money, or how the rollercoaster economy is going to impact our investments. The generations that came after us, in many cases, expect the government to either help pay or forgive the student loans that they incurred going to school for the relatively lucrative job they now have, and in too many cases bemoan the fact that they're not being paid what THEY think they're worth. Our dreams are of grandiose visions of how we can save the planet. Or whether or not spending the money to robotically explore the solar system is justified. Or which EV is best. In short, we argue and bicker about things that simply had no impact at all on the lives of The Greatest Generation. THEIR concern was having enough to eat. Or a place to sleep. Or winning a war. I often wonder just what that generation would think, if they had a glimpse into OUR reality and compared it to theirs. I'm afraid they'd see what we have and are, as heaven, compared to their reality.

“Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.” This quote by author G. Michael Hopf says it perfectly, and our history proves it. The best steel is tempered in fire, after all. No one knows how long the current ills will last--or comparatively, if they're even ills at all--but I have no doubt that, in the end, we'll come out on the other side better than when we went into it. It is the American way, after all.

Don't remember the first time I read a Hopf book, probably getting some sun on a beach, maybe around 2016-17, and when i read that passage i whipped out my phone and made a note of it... kind of up there with eternal truths isn't it !

[CoachKandSportsguy]

I can basically agree with that. Well stated. Economics 101 was merely a relatively easy course designed as an introduction only.

Finance goes over compound interest on saving for future value
buying a latte daily versus saving daily, impulsive buying can sink future buying
saving for a house versus buying a latte daily, most benefit analysis
interest payments and cost for borrowing total payments over lifetime
refinancing traps due to interest amortization (how the bank makes money on you!)
credit card financing versus cash
cash flow putting all expenses and income onto the same page.
Renting/leasing versus buying cash flow analysis
Risk analysis for identifying a better investment from a poorer investment
cars, houses, hot stock versus long term stocks
sweat equity versus buying new,
depreciation on a two year old car versus buying new.

Portfolio theory for not putting all your eggs in one basket, index versus individual stock
Buy low Sell high is independent from taxes, not because of taxes.

Gambling odds, gamblers fallacy, with risk of ruin calculations

These economic decisions can be taught which can overcome parentally learned rules of thumb from human biases.

good luck

[Pairadocs]

sp1. Supply Inflation - Since 90% of our supplies are manufactured by China, and they have been shutting thr country down every time someone gets COVID the past several years, it shuts down manufacturing and shipping, This causes months of delays, so IF there are still Widget A in stock in the USA, the price climbs because there are few of them and no guarantee of when we will bet more. Solution…bring manufacturing back to USA p, BUT not so fast. Workers in in China make A lot less than workers in USA, so that would send the prices of our products even more. No easy solution.

2. When FEDs raise interest rates, then when banks loan money it costs the consumer more for that product (aka mortgages, etc). Thereby, consumers stop purchasing those products and the prices then have to drop to compete with the shrinking group of purchasers that can still afford to purchase. It slows down the economic engine, so prices have to come down to try an attract buyers that have been pushed out of the market. It’s a fine line…reduce consumer spending without pushing the econ9my into a recession. The number to watch is unemployment. There has never been a recession with low unemployment. People are working, so we aren’t in a recession. If unemployment goes from 3% to 5%: then long term hurt on the horizon. So farm things are looking very good…gas is down, and some other prices down. It’s working.

3. Take responsibility for yourself. No one forced anyone to take drugs. Not even your doctor. Several times I’ve had doctors try to prescribe a pill and I say, “No” and I ask the alternative. Like too high of blood pressure, or glucose….losing weight helped me being the numbers back to normal. If a person is abusing a pill, it’s the person taking the pills fault. No one else. Take response your actions. Also, read up on stuff you put in your mouth. Read articles from the Mayo or Cleveland clinic, or WebMD about the product or issue. Educate yourself on alternatives. It’s your body, and YOUR responsibility what you ingest into it. BTW…”happiness” is a choice. Either you see the glass half-full, or you see the glass half-empty. Same two people looking at the exact same glass, and see something different. It’s not the glass fault….it’s you perspective. Change your perspective (turn lemons into lemonade in your head) and you’ll change your life.

I agree, personal responsibility is the key, but I acknowledge that I have very well educated friends who have a some what "blind spot" when it comes to what their doctor tells them to take. We ARE blessed to have many critically necessary medicines, but it is rather unsettling to hear the never ending TV ads for medications for "diseases" you have never heard of in your life, and most seem to be more "conditions" than diseases, but I split hairs there I fear. It is amazing to have friends, seemingly in good health and well educated, arrive for a visit with a literally case of legally prescribed drugs from their doctor. Have a cousin who actually asked for alternatives for lowering her moderate PB elevation. Her doctor told her nothing has been firmly established to work, that lowing sodium intake is not the answer, and added that behavioral changes are not a solution "because most patients will make them for approximately two weeks before going back to their normal diet and exercise pattern". He ended up giving her 3 separate medications for a MODERATE elevation ! She never filled them and began a search for alternatives. To try to write down the number of ads for prescription medicines in one day on all networks would be impossible ! My personal opinion is it's inappropriate to ADVERTISE PRESCRIPTION MEDICINES like cough drops, aspirin, and topical s for scratches and cuts ! Seems inappropriate and out of place, and since they require prescriptions, the ads always say "CALL YOUR DOCTOR NOW' and ask for _____ ! In no way am I not grateful for the many medications that have given members of my own family with certain conditions years of additional life, it is the kind of reckless abandon with which many medications are just routinely prescribed. When I do talk about my reserves in this area, I've had friends look at me and say "oh, you're one of THOSE, I had no idea and we've been friends a long time now". I just explain I am not "one of those" at all, I just believe caution should be a normal part of a decision, and personal responsibility HAS to be an element !

[tuccillo]

I am not sure what your point. My post was about providing context. Try to stay on point, if possible.

It is pretty hard to CONTROL the national debt when population increases are out of CONTROL.
........Also, as ONE simple example of where government costs have increased is the problem caused by all the FIRES out west. 7 out of the last 8 years have had RECORD HEAT. Ask yourself, what CAUSED that? It is a problem that is basically being ignored at this time, but it won't go away - and it cost lives every year and it INCREASES costs to state and Federal governments. Killer hurricane IAN has cost and will cost Floridians and the
Federal government MANY billions of dollars. Also, homeowners insurance will rise and is now the highest in the US. That problem was ignored in the US and has not been worked on for the last 30 years. Europe has worked on that problem. Also, Europe and Australia have more efficient health care which allows their societies to be more work efficient and worry less - that leads to improved GNP which allows those countries to take IN more tax money which lowers their National debt.

These are just a few examples of how America could better CONTROL its national debt. And I have not even mentioned tax brackets and percentages.

[jimjamuser]

sp

I agree, personal responsibility is the key, but I acknowledge that I have very well educated friends who have a some what "blind spot" when it comes to what their doctor tells them to take. We ARE blessed to have many critically necessary medicines, but it is rather unsettling to hear the never ending TV ads for medications for "diseases" you have never heard of in your life, and most seem to be more "conditions" than diseases, but I split hairs there I fear. It is amazing to have friends, seemingly in good health and well educated, arrive for a visit with a literally case of legally prescribed drugs from their doctor. Have a cousin who actually asked for alternatives for lowering her moderate PB elevation. Her doctor told her nothing has been firmly established to work, that lowing sodium intake is not the answer, and added that behavioral changes are not a solution "because most patients will make them for approximately two weeks before going back to their normal diet and exercise pattern". He ended up giving her 3 separate medications for a MODERATE elevation ! She never filled them and began a search for alternatives. To try to write down the number of ads for prescription medicines in one day on all networks would be impossible ! My personal opinion is it's inappropriate to ADVERTISE PRESCRIPTION MEDICINES like cough drops, aspirin, and topical s for scratches and cuts ! Seems inappropriate and out of place, and since they require prescriptions, the ads always say "CALL YOUR DOCTOR NOW' and ask for _____ ! In no way am I not grateful for the many medications that have given members of my own family with certain conditions years of additional life, it is the kind of reckless abandon with which many medications are just routinely prescribed. When I do talk about my reserves in this area, I've had friends look at me and say "oh, you're one of THOSE, I had no idea and we've been friends a long time now". I just explain I am not "one of those" at all, I just believe caution should be a normal part of a decision, and personal responsibility HAS to be an element !
I also do NOT believe that the Pharmaceutical Industry should advertise on television. They should ONLY advertise in medical journals.

[jimjamuser]

I am not sure what your point. My post was about providing context. Try to stay on point, if possible.
Your post stated that for 2022 so far the Federal government has spent $6.3T and collected $4.9T. That would INCREASE the National debt. I merely went with your point and gave some of my personal suggestions as to ways to control the national debt. Everyone IS concerned about the national debt and most everyone has suggestions about how to control it and when - in what part of an economic cycle is it more important to control?

[tuccillo]

Obviously. I thought that part of my post was pretty clear. You also had some unrelated nonsense about population and weather events. Focus.

Your post stated that for 2022 so far the Federal government has spent $6.3T and collected $4.9T. That would INCREASE the National debt. I merely went with your point and gave some of my personal suggestions as to ways to control the national debt. Everyone IS concerned about the national debt and most everyone has suggestions about how to control it and when - in what part of an economic cycle is it more important to control?

[justjim]

I get that, but unfortunately the people that represent us have sold out to special interests. Do you get that?

Do you think our tax monies are spent wisely?

Special interests supply much of the money to the candidates and their party as the costs for campaigns continue to grow completely out of hand. Unfortunately that is unlikely to change anytime in the near future. The same can be said for any movement toward term limits for Legislators. We can always do better in the way taxpayer money is spent.

[Stu from NYC]

Special interests supply much of the money to the candidates and their party as the costs for campaigns continue to grow completely out of hand. Unfortunately that is unlikely to change anytime in the near future. The same can be said for any movement toward term limits for Legislators. We can always do better in the way taxpayer money is spent.

Warren Buffet had it right. If the govt budget is in a deficit when the economy was doing well all sitting legislators would be forbidden from running for reelection.

He estimated the budget would be in balance within about 15 minutes.

[jebartle]

Why don't you tell the whole story? The deficit for FY 2021 was $2.8T. The deficit for FY 2022 was $1.4T. So, instead of spending $2.8T more than the amount of tax revenue in FY 2021, the government only spent $1.4T more than the amount of tax revenue in FY 2022. Yes, I guess that is a $1.4T reduction in the deficit. The government only collected $4.9T in taxes for FY 2022 and they spent $6.3T. Doesn't sound so great anymore, does it? Numbers are meaningless without context.

Maybe the loss of revenue was tax cuts, hmmmm!

[JMintzer]

Covid was typical in that in the US there was a HUGE time delay before solutions were implemented. In the free world, there were countries that reacted sooner than the US. However, the US reacted significantly better than Russia and China.

What??? Sorry, but all of that is so far from reality, that my jaw just dropped to the floor...

[Caymus]

Maybe the loss of revenue was tax cuts, hmmmm!

What loss of revenue? Just more spending.

Federal tax receipts see biggest one-year jump since 1977 despite pandemic | The Hill (https://thehill.com/policy/finance/budget/576389-federal-tax-receipts-see-biggest-one-year-jump-since-1977-despite/)

[Aces4]

What??? Sorry, but all of that is so far from reality, that my jaw just dropped to the floor...


I had a good laugh on that one too, the misinformation is ridiculous.

[JMintzer]

Maybe the loss of revenue was tax cuts, hmmmm!

Actually, pretty much every time they cut taxes, tax revenue goes up...

In Actual Dollars, Tax Cuts Boost Revenue Time After Time - Discourse (https://www.discoursemagazine.com/economics/2022/02/14/in-actual-dollars-tax-cuts-boost-revenue-time-after-time/)

[JMintzer]

I had a good laugh on that one too, the misinformation is ridiculous.

The other post was even worse, but I'd probably get a vacation if I responded...

[JMintzer]

///

[jimjamuser]

Special interests supply much of the money to the candidates and their party as the costs for campaigns continue to grow completely out of hand. Unfortunately that is unlikely to change anytime in the near future. The same can be said for any movement toward term limits for Legislators. We can always do better in the way taxpayer money is spent.
Many countries allow only one month of campaigning. In the US it seems like we must endure almost constant campaigning, lobbying, and fundraising. As far as term limits go, if I could change US Government, I would have a max of 2 terms of 5 years for Supreme Court Justices. They are NOT worth their lifetime appointment, none of them...........even Ruth Bader Ginsberg.

[jimjamuser]

What??? Sorry, but all of that is so far from reality, that my jaw just dropped to the floor...
In the US there WAS a HUGE time delay before Covid was even acknowledged. Remember the cruise ship that was NOT allowed to dock..........because it would show the TRUTH about the existence of Covid which the US was pretending to DENY. Remember ALL the body bags in the NY City area where Covid 1st hit. Remember the total deaths of around one million US citizens. By my estimation at least 200,000 deaths were due to SLOW / DELAYED reaction to Covid. Remember the delayed acceptance of the Covid vaccine. That killed a lot of Americans. Remember that in some midwestern states only 50% of the eligible adults got their 1st shot. That was a DELAY. Countries like Australia and New Zealand reacted right away - they had experience with Pandemics before. They mandated restrictions and then got close to 100% shot acceptance when shots were available.

If someone says that the US reacted rapidly to the Covid Pandemic, they are engaging in revisionist history - like they do often in countries like Russia.

[tuccillo]

What loss of revenue are you referring to? We could try a novel approach; limit spending. Hmmm.

Maybe the loss of revenue was tax cuts, hmmmm!

[Aces4]

In the US there WAS a HUGE time delay before Covid was even acknowledged. Remember the cruise ship that was NOT allowed to dock..........because it would show the TRUTH about the existence of Covid which the US was pretending to DENY. Remember ALL the body bags in the NY City area where Covid 1st hit. Remember the total deaths of around one million US citizens. By my estimation at least 200,000 deaths were due to SLOW / DELAYED reaction to Covid. Remember the delayed acceptance of the Covid vaccine. That killed a lot of Americans. Remember that in some midwestern states only 50% of the eligible adults got their 1st shot. That was a DELAY. Countries like Australia and New Zealand reacted right away - they had experience with Pandemics before. They mandated restrictions and then got close to 100% shot acceptance when shots were available.

If someone says that the US reacted rapidly to the Covid Pandemic, they are engaging in revisionist history - like they do often in countries like Russia.


You need to fact check your details, waaaay off. Have you ever heard chatter from those shut down countries.. not happy citizenry. You seem to avoid adding the medical advice that was provided that slowed the reaction to COVID.

This country was shut down so long we are finally starting to recover from the damage but the school children have been left back in academics and socialization. Mandated vaccinations with newly developed, untested for long term effects vaccines.. I don’t think so. This is the USA where people still have a say, not Russia as you seem to be very close to their policies.

We still don’t really know how many people actually died from COVID who didn’t already have very serious preexisting conditions.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

You need to fact check your details, waaaay off. Have you ever heard chatter from those shut down countries.. not happy citizenry. You seem to avoid adding the medical advice that was provided that slowed the reaction to COVID.

This country was shut down so long we are finally starting to recover from the damage but the school children have been left back in academics and socialization. Mandated vaccinations with newly developed, untested for long term effects vaccines.. I don’t think so. This is the USA where people still have a say, not Russia as you seem to be very close to their policies.

We still don’t really know how many people actually died from COVID who didn’t already have very serious preexisting conditions.

I find it ironic that some of the people railing against public education, who threatened to homeschool their kids and force schools to get rid of lousy teachers - were not capable of educating their kids when COVID gave them no other option. And no - they weren't busy working for a living - their jobs were shut down too.

[Aces4]

I find it ironic that some of the people railing against public education, who threatened to homeschool their kids and force schools to get rid of lousy teachers - were not capable of educating their kids when COVID gave them no other option. And no - they weren't busy working for a living - their jobs were shut down too.

Poppycock. You have no idea how many employees were required to work from home with school age children during and now after covid. Children have returned to school but parents working from home still work through scheduled no school days and provide for their children.

You’re advocating for parents to leave their children with “lousy teachers” rather than trying to educate them in a better manor. I’m surprised, I always had the impression you would advocate for kids, they deserve a sound education.

I know parents with incredibly complicated work, schedules and meetings who performed exceptionally under such difficult conditions. They have my complete admiration and kudos to this age group for their savvy.

[joelfmi]

Amazing how it is has to come to unions protecting workers for jobs that have no reason to exist. Once upon a time unions existed for a good reason, now not so much. Sad.
determined by their woke policies. As being a union and nonunion worker. I would prefer a union over a company like Lowes who is none union any day. These companies are only interest in their profits and not in their employees welfare and protesting their worker wright and paying them a none living

[joelfmi]

[QUOTE=joelfmi;2163459]determined by their woke policies. As being a union and nonunion worker. I would prefer a union over a company like Lowes who is none union any day. These companies are only interest in their profits and not in their employees welfare and protesting their worker wright and paying them a none living[ wage

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Poppycock. You have no idea how many employees were required to work from home with school age children during and now after covid. Children have returned to school but parents working from home still work through scheduled no school days and provide for their children.

You’re advocating for parents to leave their children with “lousy teachers” rather than trying to educate them in a better manor. I’m surprised, I always had the impression you would advocate for kids, they deserve a sound education.

I know parents with incredibly complicated work, schedules and meetings who performed exceptionally under such difficult conditions. They have my complete admiration and kudos to this age group for their savvy.

You're misreading. I don't think they are lousy teachers. I think they're lousy parents. I'm not the one complaining about lousy teachers and threatening to homeschool my kids. I believe in public education, paying teachers more, having department aides who assist those teachers. I come from one of the first "Open Classroom" public elementary schools in the country, and my mother was a teacher in the same school district for 30 years.

[Aces4]

You're misreading. I don't think they are lousy teachers. I think they're lousy parents. I'm not the one complaining about lousy teachers and threatening to homeschool my kids. I believe in public education, paying teachers more, having department aides who assist those teachers. I come from one of the first "Open Classroom" public elementary schools in the country, and my mother was a teacher in the same school district for 30 years.

We have teachers in our immediate family, wonderful teachers, and they will tell you there are many teachers who shouldn’t be in the classroom and the are too many educational demands from the government as to what will be taught.

Parents aren’t crazy, much has gone amuck. You went to school a long, long time ago and your mother taught many years ago, things have definitely changed.

This isn’t to say there aren’t wacky parents out there too with children they’ve messed up. Our family members should become authors and write about the situations they’ve seen, it would be very interesting reading.

The bottom line here are the kids that lost ground during the pandemic either through the isolation, teachers who couldn’t teach online, students who couldn’t learn online, poor financial situations which affected nutrition and so forth.

[JMintzer]

In the US there WAS a HUGE time delay before Covid was even acknowledged. Remember the cruise ship that was NOT allowed to dock..........because it would show the TRUTH about the existence of Covid which the US was pretending to DENY. Remember ALL the body bags in the NY City area where Covid 1st hit. Remember the total deaths of around one million US citizens. By my estimation at least 200,000 deaths were due to SLOW / DELAYED reaction to Covid. Remember the delayed acceptance of the Covid vaccine. That killed a lot of Americans. Remember that in some midwestern states only 50% of the eligible adults got their 1st shot. That was a DELAY. Countries like Australia and New Zealand reacted right away - they had experience with Pandemics before. They mandated restrictions and then got close to 100% shot acceptance when shots were available.

If someone says that the US reacted rapidly to the Covid Pandemic, they are engaging in revisionist history - like they do often in countries like Russia.

They tried to block travel from China in the first month, fer chrissakes!

But some folks screamed "racism" and the plans were scrapped...

Where was the vaccine initially available? Oh, right, the US...

All the body bags (and ventilators) that were never used?

The Hospital ship that was rushed to NYC and never used? The huge field hospital that was never used?

How, pray tell, do you come up with your "estimate" of 200K deaths?

People not taking the vaccine was not a "delay" by those in the government.

Australia and New Zealand are ISLANDS, which could easily control who came in and out...

Your comparisons are invalid...

[JMintzer]

You need to fact check your details, waaaay off. Have you ever heard chatter from those shut down countries.. not happy citizenry. You seem to avoid adding the medical advice that was provided that slowed the reaction to COVID.

This country was shut down so long we are finally starting to recover from the damage but the school children have been left back in academics and socialization. Mandated vaccinations with newly developed, untested for long term effects vaccines.. I don’t think so. This is the USA where people still have a say, not Russia as you seem to be very close to their policies.

We still don’t really know how many people actually died from COVID who didn’t already have very serious preexisting conditions.

And we never will...

[JMintzer]

I find it ironic that some of the people railing against public education, who threatened to homeschool their kids and force schools to get rid of lousy teachers - were not capable of educating their kids when COVID gave them no other option. And no - they weren't busy working for a living - their jobs were shut down too.

Big difference in planning to homeschool vs immediately HAVING to homeschool...

And no, not everyone had their "jobs shut down" and were able to homeschool...

[JMintzer]

You're misreading. I don't think they are lousy teachers. I think they're lousy parents. I'm not the one complaining about lousy teachers and threatening to homeschool my kids. I believe in public education, paying teachers more, having department aides who assist those teachers. I come from one of the first "Open Classroom" public elementary schools in the country, and my mother was a teacher in the same school district for 30 years.

There are plenty of lousy teaches, just as there are plenty of lousy parents.

Comparing teachers today to teachers from 50 years ago is a fool's errand...

My daughter is currently a teacher and she tells me horror stories... Stories of parents AND teachers...

[Whitley]

I am not sure what your point. My post was about providing context. Try to stay on point, if possible.

You mention population keeps increasing. I hear on the news, that developed western countries are losing population. Is the population increase a third world issue?

[jimjamuser]

I find it ironic that some of the people railing against public education, who threatened to homeschool their kids and force schools to get rid of lousy teachers - were not capable of educating their kids when COVID gave them no other option. And no - they weren't busy working for a living - their jobs were shut down too.
Agreed. Our original thread asked the questions - Who really understands inflation? and How do interest rates control labor and material costs? The basic answer to these questions involves how competent is the US education system compared to other countries. All solution roads lead back to the US reading, math, and problem-solving capability. According to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.......
Millennials in the WORKFORCE for All industrial nations were tested for math and problem-solving. The US came in LAST. Based on achievement tests, the US primary and secondary systems began declining in 1980. US colleges and Universities are still usually rated # 1 in the world (if you can afford them). Denmark has a claim to have the best education system as they enjoy a 99% literacy rate and free education from primary through College. In Finland, a school teacher must have a Masters Degree and the competition for a position is so high that only 1 in 10 succeed (they MUST pay pretty well). By another rating organization, the US primary and secondary system ranks 30th in math worldwide.

The point being, to understand the current inflation and the effect of the FED, the US society at large needs to IMPROVE its math and problem-solving skills. Which means more money INVESTED in public education!!!!!!!! Please.

[jimjamuser]

They tried to block travel from China in the first month, fer chrissakes!

But some folks screamed "racism" and the plans were scrapped...

Where was the vaccine initially available? Oh, right, the US...

All the body bags (and ventilators) that were never used?

The Hospital ship that was rushed to NYC and never used? The huge field hospital that was never used?

How, pray tell, do you come up with your "estimate" of 200K deaths?

People not taking the vaccine was not a "delay" by those in the government.

Australia and New Zealand are ISLANDS, which could easily control who came in and out...

Your comparisons are invalid...
My estimate of 200k deaths (while probably low) comes from MY OPINION that at least 200K deaths were recorded BEFORE I saw much US determined action (before the vaccine) to shut down unnecessary indoor activities, which was the primary cause of increased Covid spread. I remember the images shown on TV about the great distance that human sneezing traveled. That was the warning before the vaccines were developed. The US did NOT have the experience and knowledge about Pandemics that countries like Japan and New Zealand developed the hard way. The only tool for prevention early on was to avoid large indoor groups - and the US was slow to accomplish that. That was about the time here in The Villages when many people were having meals delivered. But The Villages reacted quicker and better than the average community in the US.

[tuccillo]

I didn't mention anything about population. You referenced the wrong post.

You mention population keeps increasing. I hear on the news, that developed western countries are losing population. Is the population increase a third world issue?

[Aces4]

Agreed. Our original thread asked the questions - Who really understands inflation? and How do interest rates control labor and material costs? The basic answer to these questions involves how competent is the US education system compared to other countries. All solution roads lead back to the US reading, math, and problem-solving capability. According to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.......
Millennials in the WORKFORCE for All industrial nations were tested for math and problem-solving. The US came in LAST. Based on achievement tests, the US primary and secondary systems began declining in 1980. US colleges and Universities are still usually rated # 1 in the world (if you can afford them). Denmark has a claim to have the best education system as they enjoy a 99% literacy rate and free education from primary through College. In Finland, a school teacher must have a Masters Degree and the competition for a position is so high that only 1 in 10 succeed (they MUST pay pretty well). By another rating organization, the US primary and secondary system ranks 30th in math worldwide.

The point being, to understand the current inflation and the effect of the FED, the US society at large needs to IMPROVE its math and problem-solving skills. Which means more money INVESTED in public education!!!!!!!! Please.

This is a joke. You could throw billions at any profession out there, surgeons, dentists, carpenters, chefs and you would still have extremely qualified workers and the duds. It’s the same with education. We all remember the gifted teachers in our classrooms who imparted wisdom and those who showed up every day to grind out another uninspired teaching assignment.

[jimjamuser]

This is a joke. You could throw billions at any profession out there, surgeons, dentists, carpenters, chefs and you would still have extremely qualified workers and the duds. It’s the same with education. We all remember the gifted teachers in our classrooms who imparted wisdom and those who showed up every day to grind out another uninspired teaching assignment.
When Finland sets its standards so high for teachers that only 1 out of 10 qualify - that pretty much GUARANTEES that there will be zero "DUDS" teaching their kids. Admittedly, in the US when I went to school there were mostly average teachers in high school - an example was a head football coach teaching health. One good teacher was teaching Spanish and one "DUD" was teaching Spanish. The Chemistry teacher was good. The Physics and Higher Algebra teachers were both excellent.

From what my wife tells me, the recent public education quality is bad and getting worse in Florida and other states. The US PUBLIC school system is like the base of a pyramid that needs to be strong to support the tip, which could be thought of as advanced A.I. and robotics, which leads to greater US GNP and economic strength.

In order to understand and prevent recessions we need the best and brightest economic students to graduate into jobs like staff members for the FED. Today we have a Taiwanese factory that produces the world's highest-quality CHIPS being built in Phoenix. The factory has one major problem, getting enough US engineers and other workers that meet their high standards. If the US wants to RECESSION-PROOF its economy, it needs to start improving education. US workforce millennials are LAST in math and problem-solving among industrialized countries.

[Aces4]

When Finland sets its standards so high for teachers that only 1 out of 10 qualify - that pretty much GUARANTEES that there will be zero "DUDS" teaching their kids. Admittedly, in the US when I went to school there were mostly average teachers in high school - an example was a head football coach teaching health. One good teacher was teaching Spanish and one "DUD" was teaching Spanish. The Chemistry teacher was good. The Physics and Higher Algebra teachers were both excellent.

From what my wife tells me, the recent public education quality is bad and getting worse in Florida and other states. The US PUBLIC school system is like the base of a pyramid that needs to be strong to support the tip, which could be thought of as advanced A.I. and robotics, which leads to greater US GNP and economic strength.

In order to understand and prevent recessions we need the best and brightest economic students to graduate into jobs like staff members for the FED. Today we have a Taiwanese factory that produces the world's highest-quality CHIPS being built in Phoenix. The factory has one major problem, getting enough US engineers and other workers that meet their high standards. If the US wants to RECESSION-PROOF its economy, it needs to start improving education. US workforce millennials are LAST in math and problem-solving among industrialized countries.


Thank you for agreeing with the educators assessment. I found high school, many, many years ago, to be an uninspiring educational experience.

The schools at that time were more focused on social activities and sports. What a disappointment with the exception of those few top notch teachers who enlightened and educated those of us who were interested. The pep rallies and “clubs” should have been an after school activity. How sports ever got tied into our educational system is beyond me. I can only imagine the distractions today.

Most of those “square pegs” in round hole students fared very well after high school in the trade occupations; plumbing, electricians, construction supervisors, carpenters and so forth. We need engineers, professionals and evaluation of directional education is necessary since trade occupations are also extremely important.

Our whole educational system needs revamping but I don’t ever see that happening now.

[jimjamuser]

From the little that I know about it, the Europeans keep their secondary schools and maybe even college SEPERATE from their sports programs. Which take place in separate sports clubs. In the US there is a quasi combo of the Europe and US methods of dealing with sports. An example would be the Bollitari Tennis Academy (now involving other sports) where tennis was the MAIN emphasis of the Academy. Tennis was taught and practiced in the morning and in the afternoons the kids went to a nearby grade or high school. Their education was secondary to their Tennis skills progress.

In another post, I talked about how the US moved AWAY from Vocational education in high school toward all College Prep type schools. This began about 1980 when the "powers that be" decided that vocational education cost a lot of money and they would have to raise property or other taxes to pay for vocational. This may have NEVER been studied, BUT, I personally, feel that this was a big turning point from both an economic and a psychological point of view !!!!!

Economically, it saved tax money for the top and middle economic strata, while punishing the lower US economic strata. It and the increasing population made for large class sizes (like 30 kids) which made it increasingly hard for teachers to teach and hard for the marginally prepared lower-class students to learn. Boys being less mature than girls and having more difficulty being over-active were hurt most by the large class sizes. They also had more behavior problems and were disciplined more.
......to be continued

[jimjamuser]

From the little that I know about it, the Europeans keep their secondary schools and maybe even college SEPERATE from their sports programs. Which take place in separate sports clubs. In the US there is a quasi combo of the Europe and US methods of dealing with sports. An example would be the Bollitari Tennis Academy (now involving other sports) where tennis was the MAIN emphasis of the Academy. Tennis was taught and practiced in the morning and in the afternoons the kids went to a nearby grade or high school. Their education was secondary to their Tennis skills progress.

In another post, I talked about how the US moved AWAY from Vocational education in high school toward all College Prep type schools. This began about 1980 when the "powers that be" decided that vocational education cost a lot of money and they would have to raise property or other taxes to pay for vocational. This may have NEVER been studied, BUT, I personally, feel that this was a big turning point from both an economic and a psychological point of view !!!!!

Economically, it saved tax money for the top and middle economic strata, while punishing the lower US economic strata. It and the increasing population made for large class sizes (like 30 kids) which made it increasingly hard for teachers to teach and hard for the marginally prepared lower-class students to learn. Boys being less mature than girls and having more difficulty being over-active were hurt most by the large class sizes. They also had more behavior problems and were disciplined more.
......to be continued
From a psychological point of view, the maturity of boys tends to be at all social strata about 2 years BEHIND girls for K through 12th grade. The girls are mature enough to not resist the desk CONFINEMENT for long periods. Boys get "antsy" and act out. For boys, lunch recess, gym, and after-school sports are their FAVORITE parts of the school day. Today a large % of boys not having sports as an outlet (a safety valve) will "act out" by joining GANGS. And ALL of these psychological forces on BOYS are exacerbated by LARGE CLASS SIZE. I would EVEN suggest that US schools are set up to DE-EMPHASIZE the male qualities while emphasizing female qualities.

So, I would conclude that by stopping Vocational Education that the US has caused unintended negative consequences and has been SHORT-SIGHTED (aka penny-wise and dollar foolish). And it ripples through society and the US economy. The US economy could be MADE more RECESSION-PROOF by better analysis and improvement of primary and secondary education. Why does Taiwan make the highest level of computer chips in the world? Why did the US RELINQUISH the top spot in science and technology? IMO it began in 1980 when US children were SHORTCHANGED IN SCHOOLS !

[Aces4]

I agree with much of what you said with the exception of the loss of trade schools. College became the “in thing” and that’s where the money was focused. And now they’re just over bloated bastions of subpar education with eyes on the sports features. I recognize that isn’t every school but I am amazed at the capabilities of a Magna Cum Laude graduate who told me it wasn’t difficult to achieve.. just turn in the assignments and show up for class. I remember helping her with math and other basic life skills she was missing after her degree.

You do realize that those in the trades live a very good lifestyle and that is because they are handy and ambitious. They don’t have to run to and pay for a health club to stay in shape. They have life skills college grads are missing.

We need college and the trades and we need them well educated in their fields. Throwing money at the problem isn’t the answer, intelligent teachers will go along way fixing the problem, as you pointed out the case in Finland.

As a side note, if I heard one more person say shtraw, shtrange, shtride, shtump, etc. I’m going to have a fit. There is a whole list of words that are being mauled in the English language.

[Two Bills]

As a side note, if I heard one more person say shtraw, shtrange, shtride, shtump, etc. I’m going to have a fit. There is a whole list of words that are being mauled in the English language.

After my last tooth fell out, I shtarted to shpeak like that!