Why no cement lining the paths south of 44?

[coffeebean]

Our MM Paths north of 44 have cement "ribbons" lining each side of the paths. This cement prevents the grass from invading the asphalt and gives the landscapers a sharp edge to keep the grass edged.

I personally have not driven on the cart paths south of 44 but my sister routinely takes a ride in her golf cart on Sundays south of 44. She has noticed that the paths down south do not have the cement "ribbon" along the sides of the asphalt. Without this ribbon of cement, the grass has invaded the asphalt and she told me those paths look awful.

Infrastructure on the cheap is what is happening down south. Too bad.

[jimdecastro]

We get no retail, gas, benches, intersection entrances. This is not even policy as the new path up north got curbs last month.

[Bogie Shooter]

Rather than jumping to conclusions , why not just call and ask?
VCDD District Property Management (https://www.districtgov.org/departments/District-Property-Management/district-property-management.aspx)

[RICH1]

Could be waiting for What they call , “wet prairie settling” It should be noticed within the next 3-5 years…

[Priebehouse]

We get no retail, gas, benches, intersection entrances. This is not even policy as the new path up north got curbs last month.
...you think they should have built the retail, streets and pathways first, then the homes? Not the best economic plan especially for the business owners. Like building a Costco in the middle of the Mojave Desert and thinking all will flock there. Give it a few years, it will all come around.chilout

[Altavia]

Our MM Paths north of 44 have cement "ribbons" lining each side of the paths. This cement prevents the grass from invading the asphalt and gives the landscapers a sharp edges to keep the grass edged.

I personally have not driven on the cart paths south of 44 but my sister routinely takes a ride in her golf cart on Sundays south of 44. She has noticed that the paths down south do not have the cement "ribbon" along the sides of the asphalt. Without this ribbon of cement, the grass has invaded the asphalt and she told me those paths look awful.

Infrastructure on the cheap is what is happening down south. Too bad.

MMP paths have cement. borders. Think she's taking about walking paths.

[UsuallyLurking]

Rather than jumping to conclusions , why not just call and ask?
VCDD District Property Management (https://www.districtgov.org/departments/District-Property-Management/district-property-management.aspx)

The concrete is not there because that is what the developer decided to do when they built the paths south of 44. I recall someone citing a developer representative saying that they wanted an appearance that reflected the more rural character of the area south of 44. (Yes, I personally think that is a bunch of crap, though I suppose if you take "rural" to mean dirt roads and such then mission accomplished.)
If individual districts, which own the paths, want to put in the concrete they can do so (though I don't know if the paths fall under "common infrastructure" and would therefore fall under the jurisdiction of PWAC).

[Papa_lecki]

Not sure exactly what you're talking about, but the MMP paths north of 44 do not have cement “curbs”.
They are at the same level as the grass, so the golf carts can pull up onto the grass.
We’ve all seen carts pulled over.
They might have curbs around the circles or the underpasses.

[Bogie Shooter]

Not sure exactly what you're talking about, but the MMP paths north of 44 do not have cement “curbs”.
They are at the same level as the grass, so the golf carts can pull up onto the grass.
We’ve all seen carts pulled over.
They might have curbs around the circles or the underpasses.

She said “ribbons”.

[Mortal1]

Some do have the cement edging and since you admit you haven't been it might be wise to take a trip to find out for yourself. There are many long stretches of just asphalt, but not all.

[justjim]

There are at least one or two other Threads regarding the MM paths south of 44. Use TOTV “search” and you will find them. Bottom line a lot changed when the Developer went south of 44 some good and some maybe not so much.

[coffeebean]

We get no retail, gas, benches, intersection entrances. This is not even policy as the new path up north got curbs last month.

I know what you are saying. I do find the "look" of The Villages south of 44 is different. Supposedly, the look is supposed to be more "natural" than more "manicured" that we have up north. As for the retail, gas and such, I keep reading on this forum that will all come in good time. Just have to wait for it.

[Stu from NYC]

I know what you are saying. I do find the "look" of The Villages south of 44 is different. Supposedly, the look is supposed to be more "natural" than more "manicured" that we have up north. As for the retail, gas and such, I keep reading on this forum that will all come in good time. Just have to wait for it.

When the population density reaches some level the stores will come. Wondering how many of us will be around to appreciate that.

[coffeebean]

Rather than jumping to conclusions , why not just call and ask?
VCDD District Property Management (https://www.districtgov.org/departments/District-Property-Management/district-property-management.aspx)

What is to jump to conclusion. There is no cement ribbon lining each side of the MM Paths down south. That is something one is able to see. Sis says the paths look awful and I believe her.

[coffeebean]

MMP paths have cement. borders. Think she's taking about walking paths.

Gee, I would have to ask my sister. I know they don't walk when they take their golf cart rides down south and I would imagine she is driving on the golf cart paths.

Come to think of it......the most recent walking path in the northern section is the path that begins at the Lake Miona Rec Center. I haven't been on that path yet but wondering if that path is just asphalt with no cement ribbons. Anyone know?

[coffeebean]

Not sure exactly what you're talking about, but the MMP paths north of 44 do not have cement “curbs”.
They are at the same level as the grass, so the golf carts can pull up onto the grass.
We’ve all seen carts pulled over.
They might have curbs around the circles or the underpasses.

I'm not referring to "curbs". These are cement "ribbons" that line each side of the MM Paths. The cement is the same level as the asphalt but the cement does not allow the grass to infiltrate it, therefore, the asphalt remains grass free.

[coffeebean]

Some do have the cement edging and since you admit you haven't been it might be wise to take a trip to find out for yourself. There are many long stretches of just asphalt, but not all.
One of my mantras has always been, "never say never" and "never say all". I imagine you are correct about that. Some paths have the cement ribbons and some don't. Thing is, north of 44, I have not seen a MMP that does not have a cement ribbon protecting the asphalt.

[John Mayes]

Gee, I would have to ask my sister. I know they don't walk when they take their golf cart rides down south and I would imagine she is driving on the golf cart paths.

Come to think of it......the most recent walking path in the northern section is the path that begins at the Lake Miona Rec Center. I haven't been on that path yet but wondering if that path is just asphalt with no cement ribbons. Anyone know?

You mean this one;

https://www.**************.com/2022/10/06/pwac-will-get-update-on-walking-path-criticized-for-cost-and-narrow-width/

[coffeebean]

You mean this one;

https://www.**************.com/2022/10/06/pwac-will-get-update-on-walking-path-criticized-for-cost-and-narrow-width/

The link is blocked with ********* but I think I have read that thread. There are many complaints that this new walking path is too narrow.

[John Mayes]

The link is blocked with ********* but I think I have read that thread. There are many complaints that this new walking path is too narrow.

Correct. Several articles in the online news that we can’t mention.

[John Mayes]

What is to jump to conclusion. There is no cement ribbon lining each side of the MM Paths down south. That is something one is able to see. Sis says the paths look awful and I believe her.

Not sure where she is driving but I’m on the MMP’s south of 44 every day. I live north of the turnpike and pretty sure I’ve been on all MMP’s on my side and I drive to the south side for golf or to eat several times a week. I’ve never noticed any MMP’s that look “awful”. Some have concrete ribbons, some don’t. I’d be interested where your sister has seen paths that look awful.

[maistocars]

Not sure I agree with "sis" if she is talking about MM paths. I ride the MMP north of 44 every day to Odell Circle and I do not see any cement ribbons on the MMPs. We stop at the dog area just south of Hillsborough all the time and pull our cart right up on the grass with everyone else without crossing any cement border.

[Bill14564]

Not sure I agree with "sis" if she is talking about MM paths. I ride the MMP north of 44 every day to Odell Circle and I do not see any cement ribbons on the MMPs. We stop at the dog area just south of Hillsborough all the time and pull our cart right up on the grass with everyone else without crossing any cement border.

??? Where is there a dog park just south of Hillsborough? If you mean the one near the Wiechens Preserve, that is Moyer Loop. The concrete ribbons are clearly visible along the MMP at Morse and Moyer Loop in google maps.I

In general, the ribbons seem to be present north of 44 and in the Fenney area but not in the area between 44 and the Turnpike.

[Kenswing]

Guilty as charged. And to think......someone once said (on this forum) that the folks north of 44 are jealous of the folks who live in the south. LOL.

It still baffles me why someone who doesn’t live south of 44, probably never visits south of 44 feels the need to bash everything south of 44 every chance he gets.

It might not be jealousy but it sure looks like some sort of personal insecurity.

[Bogie Shooter]

What is to jump to conclusion. There is no cement ribbon lining each side of the MM Paths down south. That is something one is able to see. Sis says the paths look awful and I believe her.

“Infrastructure on the cheap is what is happening down south.”coffee bean.

[Bogie Shooter]

The link is blocked with ********* but I think I have read that thread. There are many complaints that this new walking path is too narrow.

Most from people that haven’t walked the path.

[Bogie Shooter]

It still baffles me why someone who doesn’t live south of 44, probably never visits south of 44 feels the need to bash everything south of 44 every chance he gets.

It might not be jealousy but it sure looks like some sort of personal insecurity.

:thumbup:

[Marathon Man]

It still baffles me why someone who doesn’t live south of 44, probably never visits south of 44 feels the need to bash everything south of 44 every chance he gets.

It might not be jealousy but it sure looks like some sort of personal insecurity.

Well said.

[Oldragbagger]

There is nothing at all that looks terrible or awful down here. It looks different from the north of 44 areas, but different doesn’t equal awful. To those who don’t like the look of it, the simple solution is to stay up north. This whole thread is BS and just seems like pot stirring from someone who has no skin in the game in the south of 44 area. Why the obsession with something that doesn’t need to concern them is a great question though .

[Oldragbagger]

What is to jump to conclusion. There is no cement ribbon lining each side of the MM Paths down south. That is something one is able to see. Sis says the paths look awful and I believe her.

Sis is wrong. The paths down here are perfectly fine.

[charmed59]

Gee, I would have to ask my sister. I know they don't walk when they take their golf cart rides down south and I would imagine she is driving on the golf cart paths.

Come to think of it......the most recent walking path in the northern section is the path that begins at the Lake Miona Rec Center. I haven't been on that path yet but wondering if that path is just asphalt with no cement ribbons. Anyone know?

The Lake Miona Rec center path is a rubberized surface like they use for running tracks with cement borders. It is six feet wide including the cement borders. Those from the district thought when they asked for a six foot wide path it would be six feet wide not including the borders, and admittedly, that would have been wonderful. However the path does work well and is fairly popular.

There is another rubberized surface walking path north off 441, just on the other side of the 441 bridge. I don’t know if there are any south of 44, but if there are I bet they also have concrete borders.

[charmed59]

From google maps it looks like both the walking and MMPs south of the turnpike have concrete borders.

[Altavia]

From google maps it looks like both the walking and MMPs south of the turnpike have concrete borders.

Exactly, they would be very difficult to drive at night without a border.

[rustyp]

I've observed the edges of the blacktop are already breaking off on the cart paths without the concrete curbs.

[JMintzer]

??? Where is there a dog park just south of Hillsborough? If you mean the one near the Wiechens Preserve, that is Moyer Loop. The concrete ribbons are clearly visible along the MMP at Morse and Moyer Loop in google maps.I

In general, the ribbons seem to be present north of 44 and in the Fenney area but not in the area between 44 and the Turnpike.

If you keep following the path up Morse, you'll see the concrete is mostly on the west side of the path (due to the landscaping), and that it comes and goes on the east side...

[Bill14564]

If you keep following the path up Morse, you'll see the concrete is mostly on the west side of the path (due to the landscaping), and that it comes and goes on the east side...

I don't remember that and can't see it in google maps but maybe I'll look for it sometime.

But even if that is the case, it is still true that the ribbon exists on the MMPs north of 44 but is absent on many south of 44 except in the Fenney area.

[JMintzer]

I don't remember that and can't see it in google maps but maybe I'll look for it sometime.

But even if that is the case, it is still true that the ribbon exists on the MMPs north of 44 but is absent on many south of 44 except in the Fenney area.

Possibly...

Although, the last time I was down (in October), the boss and I did the "Southern Loop", crossing over the Chitty Chatty bridge, driving down to St Catherine, stopping @ Sawgrass, crossing the Turnpike and coming back thru Brownwood and I didn't notice and problems with the MMPs... In fact, I was impressed with what they've done in Marsh Bend, De Soto, Fenney and Richmond... (I didn't venture very far south of Warm Springs on the far side of the Turnpike...)

[asianthree]

Lack Flowers and waterfalls haven’t been infused into this thread yet..wait for it:clap2:

[Aces4]

Lack Flowers and waterfalls haven’t been infused into this thread yet..wait for it:clap2:

I have a question regarding the mmp’s lack of curbing. Is zoysia grass used in the landscaping along those paths or is a different type of grass used?

We had unlined blacktop streets in our patio villa area north of 466A before we moved into a house. The zoysia grass was so invasive that it was permeating the blacktop all over the streets. Ribbon curbing was installed to cure the problem. If zoysia was not used south of 44, there shouldn’t be any issues with a lack of concrete borders along the mmps.

[tophcfa]

This whole thread is BS and just seems like pot stirring from someone who has no skin in the game in the south of 44 area. Why the obsession with something that doesn’t need to concern them is a great question though .

Agree as far as concrete ribbons on the path edges goes, but the lack of Championship golf is a legitimate concern for those living north of 44. They do have skin in that game, all the people in the new areas have to go somewhere, which is definitely not a good thing for for the supply/demand equation.

[HoosierPa]

Our MM Paths north of 44 have cement "ribbons" lining each side of the paths. This cement prevents the grass from invading the asphalt and gives the landscapers a sharp edge to keep the grass edged.

I personally have not driven on the cart paths south of 44 but my sister routinely takes a ride in her golf cart on Sundays south of 44. She has noticed that the paths down south do not have the cement "ribbon" along the sides of the asphalt. Without this ribbon of cement, the grass has invaded the asphalt and she told me those paths look awful.

Infrastructure on the cheap is what is happening down south. Too bad.


The CDD’s did that north of 44 after turned over to them

[westernrider75]

I'm not referring to "curbs". These are cement "ribbons" that line each side of the MM Paths. The cement is the same level as the asphalt but the cement does not allow the grass to infiltrate it, therefore, the asphalt remains grass free.

I have yet to see any grass infiltrating the asphalt!

[Goldwingnut]

The lack of ribbon burning and the degradation of the MMPs was brought up 2 or maybe 3 years ago when I was serving on the PWAC. I expressed my concerns over the long term stability and costs for maintaining them. I made the point that the lack of ribbon curbing was such a concern north of 44 for the roads in the PV and CYV communities that the individual CDD ended up funding the installations in these communities. I questioned why they were not included and could we mandate that they be installed going forward.

District staff said they would investigate and get back to us…
Two responses were received:
1. They examined the MMP and didn’t find any significant degradation except in one area around Bradford where heavy trucks had damaged the path and their was being repaired. - A complete load of BS, before I made my comments at the PWAC meeting I had already ridden down miles of the MMPs and seen dozens of locations where there was degradation and encroachment of the grass into the surface, I had also spent the evening of the Water Lilly bridge movement over the turnpike at the Water Lilly RC area and saw numerous areas were the walking paths had started to degrade after only a few months. This has been, is, and will continue to be an issue with the walking and MMPs south of 44. Eventually, these paths will either have to be resurfaced/rebuilt and/or ribbon curbing installed to stabilize them like they are north of 44. Either way it will come at considerable expense to the residents.
2. The ribbon curbing was eliminated as a cost savings measure. There are many more miles of walking and MMPs in the areas south of 44 than elsewhere in our community. This is due to the geography of the area and the large number of wetlands areas that were preserved resulting in longer paths and the addition of miles walking paths throughout the newer areas. It was a trade off, more paths or ribbon curbing. Had the ribbon curbing been installed it would have had a significant impact on the bonds that were issued for construction. (The bonds south of 44 are consistent with those north of 44 on a $/acre to developer, once you account for time and inflation over the many years, you cannot compare the raw numbers without looking at the rising cost/acre caused by inflation. But I’ve had this discussion several times here so no more rehash.). The walking and MMPs meet the “state standards”, I however argued that they didn’t meet the long established, but unwritten, “Villages Standards” for these paths, so the ribbon curbing isn’t mandated, and therefore not installed. A business decision, good short term but bad long term for the residents.

Because of the wetlands areas and grasses that abut the walking and MMPs the need for the stabilization provided by the ribbon curbing is needed more so in the areas south of 44 than they are needed in the existing areas north of 44.

There is a lot of validity to their side of the argument, however it comes down to pay-me-now-or-pay-me-later; well it looks like “now” is the long anticipated “later”.

As the MMP maintenance falls under the PWA as common infrastructure, all the residents south of 466 will eventually have to foot the bill for the PWF costs of repairs/upgrades. This was one of the many discussion points and reasons why PWAC2 was so favored by all the signatories of the PWA, well almost all. When the bill comes due for this, as it will eventually, all of us north of 44 must be sure to thank the board of CDD7 for their efforts in railroading the agreement with false and misguided intentions and not even taking the time to vote on the new agreement. Sorry for this side track, but it is a valid point that needed to be said.

The real question at hand needs to be will the CDD 12 & 13 boards and PWAC take the necessary actions now, to “fix” this issue now or will these paths be left to fester, rot, and decay until someone gets injured and they are forced to take decisive action to upgrade, at a much higher cost. Let your voices be heard now or let your wallet be hurt later.

[Altavia]

Agree as far as concrete ribbons on the path edges goes, but the lack of Championship golf is a legitimate concern for those living north of 44. They do have skin in that game, all the people in the new areas have to go somewhere, which is definitely not a good thing for for the supply/demand equation.

In construction...

Continuing The Dream: Volume 15 (https://www.nxtbook.com/thevillages/TheVillages/ContinuingTheDream_Vol15/index.php)

[coffeebean]

Not sure where she is driving but I’m on the MMP’s south of 44 every day. I live north of the turnpike and pretty sure I’ve been on all MMP’s on my side and I drive to the south side for golf or to eat several times a week. I’ve never noticed any MMP’s that look “awful”. Some have concrete ribbons, some don’t. I’d be interested where your sister has seen paths that look awful.

Me too. I will ask her about it.

[Singerlady]

You said it. Unfortunately the Firm cheapened a lot south of 44: lot sizes, your MMP, shorter driveways, utilities in front yard, size of houses, narrower streets, etc.

[coffeebean]

Not sure I agree with "sis" if she is talking about MM paths. I ride the MMP north of 44 every day to Odell Circle and I do not see any cement ribbons on the MMPs. We stop at the dog area just south of Hillsborough all the time and pull our cart right up on the grass with everyone else without crossing any cement border.

Now this is interesting. Maybe the cement lining each side of the MMPs was stopped before getting south of 44? I really don't go very far in my golf cart; just stay around Mallory Square going to either Colony Rec Center and shopping there, Lake Miona Rec Center and then to Lake Sumter Landing. Actually, I have driven along 466 on the MMP too. All those paths do have the cement lining each side of the path so. Next time I'm riding on Morse or Buena Vista as a passenger in the car, I will look at the paths that run along those roads to see if they, in fact, do have the cement borders.

[coffeebean]

It still baffles me why someone who doesn’t live south of 44, probably never visits south of 44 feels the need to bash everything south of 44 every chance he gets.

It might not be jealousy but it sure looks like some sort of personal insecurity.

Sorry if it baffles you but I care about the appearance of all of The Villages, not just my area. The Villages has a reputation to live up to and the older villages is what made this place so popular. I just hope, as large and more populated this place gets, it will continue to have a great reputation.

[coffeebean]

“Infrastructure on the cheap is what is happening down south.”coffee bean.
I'm not a construction engineer but it seems to me that lining asphalt with a cement ribbon would cost more than just leaving the asphalt bare on the sides to be invaded by grass. No??? That is what I was referring to.

[coffeebean]

Most from people that haven’t walked the path.

I haven't walked the path by Lake Miona yet but I'm looking forward to doing that now that the weather is cooler. I will weigh in on the width of the path after I actually walk it.

[coffeebean]

Sis is wrong. The paths down here are perfectly fine.

Next time my sister takes a ride on the paths south of 44 (usually on Sundays), I'll ask her to take photos of the grass invading the asphalt. Problem is, I still don't know how to post a photo on this site so I wont' be able to post the photos. I will, however, be able to see for myself what Sis is talking about.

[rsmurano]

This is how propaganda starts, someone told someone told someone and now it’s true.
Before posting you should have 1st hand knowledge.
The paths in the south are much more thought out and look better than the paths north of 44. Down south here, we have curbs when needed. We don’t have grass growing in our paths, and all of our paths are made for golf carts, not like the paths north of 466a. If you go head on to a path after crossing issuing a street where the gates are north of 466a, there is a harsh dip, which you don’t have down south. How about the accid by waiting to happen path north of 466 where the golf carts share the road with Morse? We don’t have that here, we are off the major roads. (Did the county vote yet to get rid of the Morse golf cart path yet?).

[coffeebean]

The Lake Miona Rec center path is a rubberized surface like they use for running tracks with cement borders. It is six feet wide including the cement borders. Those from the district thought when they asked for a six foot wide path it would be six feet wide not including the borders, and admittedly, that would have been wonderful. However the path does work well and is fairly popular.

There is another rubberized surface walking path north off 441, just on the other side of the 441 bridge. I don’t know if there are any south of 44, but if there are I bet they also have concrete borders.

OMG......thank you so much for posting this. This rubberized surface is perfect for folks with arthritis, especially in the knees and ankles. Are the paths south of 44 made with this surface too? That is a wonderful addition to our area. I can't wait to take a walk. And.....there is cement ribbons lining the walking path by Lake Miona. GREAT!!!!!!

[coffeebean]

From google maps it looks like both the walking and MMPs south of the turnpike have concrete borders.

I'm very glad to hear this. I want all of The Villages to be the best it can be. Good to know it is not all the paths south of 44 that do not have the cement to protect the asphalt.

[coffeebean]

I've observed the edges of the blacktop are already breaking off on the cart paths without the concrete curbs.

Why would they even build any paths without the protection of the concrete? That is truly a concern.

[GizmoWhiskers]

Our MM Paths north of 44 have cement "ribbons" lining each side of the paths. This cement prevents the grass from invading the asphalt and gives the landscapers a sharp edge to keep the grass edged.

I personally have not driven on the cart paths south of 44 but my sister routinely takes a ride in her golf cart on Sundays south of 44. She has noticed that the paths down south do not have the cement "ribbon" along the sides of the asphalt. Without this ribbon of cement, the grass has invaded the asphalt and she told me those paths look awful.

Infrastructure on the cheap is what is happening down south. Too bad.
BINGO. Under the guides of "Everglades" or "Prairie" themes you see much less Villages touches of "Disney-like cuteness".
Take for instance the 301 entrance of DeLuna and compare it to up north. Bathroom tile on a tiny wall. South of 44 is The Villages "Developers" beginning to show clear signs of thinking no one is noticing the change in motivation. Don't get me wrong, the S of 44 bubble beats the lack of creativity elsewhere however, it IS a noticeable change in design.
??'s that make you go "hmmmm"...

Why is TV not forcing the developers or owners to open the theater in Brownwood? Lack of workers... give me a break. Comments saying Leesburg theater is great is ridiculous! TV "dream" has plenty of theaters. That's a selling point for over 55's. Covid was a great reason to close it... temporarily. Theater by golf cart. Fun for the grand kids yatta yatta.

And yes, the golf cart trails are going to fall apart as there are no curbs. Who pays then?

As The Villages grows to Clermont it will eventually be like any other 55 and older community. I'm sure the paths will become more and more diamond lanes with cars.

All good things crumble eventually. It is about the $$ and selling houses on stamp sized lots the further south they go.

3 generations ago it was all about "dreams come true" for over 55. Now it is basic rec centers and repeating designs of round-abouts. Plenty of golf for the future but even the courses are changing. Someone with more golf experience can elaborate on that but the new pitch and putt at Richmond looks awfully small. I think you get my gist.

Still, I love the bubble... just feel bad to see it changing from what it is on the north side of 44.

[tuccillo]

The one noticeable area (to me, since I ride it often) without a concrete ribbon is the stretch from the Brownwood Bridge to the bridge over the turnpike. The edges will recede with time and will have to be dealt with.

I'm very glad to hear this. I want all of The Villages to be the best it can be. Good to know it is not all the paths south of 44 that do not have the cement to protect the asphalt.

[NoMo50]

Infrastructure on the cheap is what is happening down south. Too bad.

Not sure I agree with that statement. Different does not necessarily mean cheap. The newer developed areas south of SR-44 have many more miles of MMPs and walking/biking trails than the areas north of 44. The preservation of wetlands and preserves, along with the addition of miles and miles of trails was, in my opinion, a great feature to the southern villages. We meet people all the time who live north of SR-44 that come down south to enjoy the walking/biking trails. They don't seem to mind associating with us folks who live on "the wrong side of the tracks."

[coffeebean]

I have a question regarding the mmp’s lack of curbing. Is zoysia grass used in the landscaping along those paths or is a different type of grass used?

We had unlined blacktop streets in our patio villa area north of 466A before we moved into a house. The zoysia grass was so invasive that it was permeating the blacktop all over the streets. Ribbon curbing was installed to cure the problem. If zoysia was not used south of 44, there shouldn’t be any issues with a lack of concrete borders along the mmps.
There must be issues with the grass invading the asphalt otherwise my sister would not have even mentioned it to me. She told me those paths look "awful" and she has no reason to lie about it.

[coffeebean]

I have yet to see any grass infiltrating the asphalt!

My sister has seen it so you must not have been on the paths that sis has been on.

[coffeebean]

The lack of ribbon burning and the degradation of the MMPs was brought up 2 or maybe 3 years ago when I was serving on the PWAC. I expressed my concerns over the long term stability and costs for maintaining them. I made the point that the lack of ribbon curbing was such a concern north of 44 for the roads in the PV and CYV communities that the individual CDD ended up funding the installations in these communities. I questioned why they were not included and could we mandate that they be installed going forward.

District staff said they would investigate and get back to us…
Two responses were received:
1. They examined the MMP and didn’t find any significant degradation except in one area around Bradford where heavy trucks had damaged the path and their was being repaired. - A complete load of BS, before I made my comments at the PWAC meeting I had already ridden down miles of the MMPs and seen dozens of locations where there was degradation and encroachment of the grass into the surface, I had also spent the evening of the Water Lilly bridge movement over the turnpike at the Water Lilly RC area and saw numerous areas were the walking paths had started to degrade after only a few months. This has been, is, and will continue to be an issue with the walking and MMPs south of 44. Eventually, these paths will either have to be resurfaced/rebuilt and/or ribbon curbing installed to stabilize them like they are north of 44. Either way it will come at considerable expense to the residents.
2. The ribbon curbing was eliminated as a cost savings measure. There are many more miles of walking and MMPs in the areas south of 44 than elsewhere in our community. This is due to the geography of the area and the large number of wetlands areas that were preserved resulting in longer paths and the addition of miles walking paths throughout the newer areas. It was a trade off, more paths or ribbon curbing. Had the ribbon curbing been installed it would have had a significant impact on the bonds that were issued for construction. (The bonds south of 44 are consistent with those north of 44 on a $/acre to developer, once you account for time and inflation over the many years, you cannot compare the raw numbers without looking at the rising cost/acre caused by inflation. But I’ve had this discussion several times here so no more rehash.). The walking and MMPs meet the “state standards”, I however argued that they didn’t meet the long established, but unwritten, “Villages Standards” for these paths, so the ribbon curbing isn’t mandated, and therefore not installed. A business decision, good short term but bad long term for the residents.

Because of the wetlands areas and grasses that abut the walking and MMPs the need for the stabilization provided by the ribbon curbing is needed more so in the areas south of 44 than they are needed in the existing areas north of 44.

There is a lot of validity to their side of the argument, however it comes down to pay-me-now-or-pay-me-later; well it looks like “now” is the long anticipated “later”.

As the MMP maintenance falls under the PWA as common infrastructure, all the residents south of 466 will eventually have to foot the bill for the PWF costs of repairs/upgrades. This was one of the many discussion points and reasons why PWAC2 was so favored by all the signatories of the PWA, well almost all. When the bill comes due for this, as it will eventually, all of us north of 44 must be sure to thank the board of CDD7 for their efforts in railroading the agreement with false and misguided intentions and not even taking the time to vote on the new agreement. Sorry for this side track, but it is a valid point that needed to be said.

The real question at hand needs to be will the CDD 12 & 13 boards and PWAC take the necessary actions now, to “fix” this issue now or will these paths be left to fester, rot, and decay until someone gets injured and they are forced to take decisive action to upgrade, at a much higher cost. Let your voices be heard now or let your wallet be hurt later.

Goldwingnut......I can count on you to set the record straight. Thank you for this very informative post. It verifies what I have been saying in this thread but so much more accurately and affirmatively.

[Bogie Shooter]

Is 19 posts on one thread a new record?

[BRN_RI_FL]

It’s not only the walking paths in the south, it’s the villa roadways in the north. Two different newer villas right of CR 42 have grass creeping into the roadways. I’ve complained but the answer was that is how they were designed.

[coffeebean]

Not sure I agree with that statement. Different does not necessarily mean cheap. The newer developed areas south of SR-44 have many more miles of MMPs and walking/biking trails than the areas north of 44. The preservation of wetlands and preserves, along with the addition of miles and miles of trails was, in my opinion, a great feature to the southern villages. We meet people all the time who live north of SR-44 that come down south to enjoy the walking/biking trails. They don't seem to mind associating with us folks who live on "the wrong side of the tracks."
Have you read Goldwingnut's long informative post? Most certainly, it is a cost effective way to build the paths without the cement ribbon. My original statement that the infrastructure is built "on the cheap" still stands. Goldwingnut explains the reason for it but it doesn't change the fact that those paths are less expensive to build without the cement ribbon protecting the asphalt.

[coffeebean]

It’s not only the walking paths in the south, it’s the villa roadways in the north. Two different newer villas right of CR 42 have grass creeping into the roadways. I’ve complained but the answer was that is how they were designed.

Thank you for posting a photo. I wish I could do that. So, same thing with new construction in the north. This new generation is all about saving money.

[Aces4]

It’s not only the walking paths in the south, it’s the villa roadways in the north. Two different newer villas right of CR 42 have grass creeping into the roadways. I’ve complained but the answer was that is how they were designed.

That roadway will soon be cr*p unless Villagers pay for all of these repairs.

I would ignore the people who try to pull the subject off topic by pointing out how many posts someone has made. If you haven’t read the post from Goldwing Nut, go back and read the whole thing.

Villagers will be paying the freight for all repairs to inadequate mmp installations. It’s that simple and the damaged mmps will be ugly until the proper repairs are made.

[coffeebean]

that roadway will soon be cr*p unless villagers pay for all of these repairs.

I would ignore the people who try to pull the subject off topic by pointing out how many posts someone has made. if you haven’t read the post from goldwing nut, go back and read the whole thing.

villagers will be paying the freight for all repairs to inadequate mmp installations. It’s that simple and the damaged mmps will be ugly until the proper repairs are made.

yup!

[Vermilion Villager]

There is nothing at all that looks terrible or awful down here. It looks different from the north of 44 areas, but different doesn’t equal awful. To those who don’t like the look of it, the simple solution is to stay up north. This whole thread is BS and just seems like pot stirring from someone who has no skin in the game in the south of 44 area. Why the obsession with something that doesn’t need to concern them is a great question though .
EXACTLY! I'd say at least 50% of the owners down here South of 44 sold their homes North of 44 to move down. Has anyone EVER heard of a person who sold their home South of 44 to move North of 44?? I didn't think so.......

[Aces4]

EXACTLY! I'd say at least 50% of the owners down here South of 44 sold their homes North of 44 to move down. Has anyone EVER heard of a person who sold their home South of 44 to move North of 44?? I didn't think so.......

Did it occur to you that your “area” isn’t being trashed but that a feature of your area is being highlighted as a potential problem because it was installed improperly as Goldwing Nut pointed out?

[Goldwingnut]

Let me clarify one point, the walking and MMPs are of quality design and construction, they were not done “on the cheap” or substandard and will last for many years. They meet all state construction standards. Could they have been built better by using the ribbon curbing, absolutely. The fact is that in the subtropical Florida climate that we live in, thing grow very fast, especially grass and weeds, and they will attempt to overcome anything that is an obstacle before them.

Budgets are real, epically in the construction world, if the standards meet the budget but the upgrades do not, the upgraded (ribbon curbs) don’t happen. It’s not an attempt to cheat the residents, in this case it’s a matter of both budget and the massive size of the area south of 44 being developed that make them cost prohibitive.

[Daddymac]

our mm paths north of 44 have cement "ribbons" lining each side of the paths. This cement prevents the grass from invading the asphalt and gives the landscapers a sharp edge to keep the grass edged.

I personally have not driven on the cart paths south of 44 but my sister routinely takes a ride in her golf cart on sundays south of 44. She has noticed that the paths down south do not have the cement "ribbon" along the sides of the asphalt. Without this ribbon of cement, the grass has invaded the asphalt and she told me those paths look awful.

Infrastructure on the cheap is what is happening down south. Too bad.

its all about the money money money money money money money ....... That is it

[rustyp]

And yet another PWAC success story.
- no curbing
- removal of amenity fee top stop
- water and wind tower replacement
- Sumter bridge erosion shore up

Keep those wallets open folks

[VApeople]

That roadway will soon be cr*p unless Villagers pay for all of these repairs.

Maybe a lot of Villagers like the roadways being crap.

When we lived in Fairfax County VA, there was one road with a lot of potholes and rough spots. The county government was going to have the road repaired, but the residents were very against it. The crappy road was making the cars drive slower, which they liked.

[VApeople]

We meet people all the time who live north of SR-44 that come down south to enjoy the walking/biking trails.

Yes, we live north of SR-44 and we love the walking trails in the Southern Area. Our favorites are the one in Hawkins that goes along the marsh and the new one in DeLuna, which we walked yesterday.

[BRN_RI_FL]

And yet another PWAC success story.
- no curbing
- removal of amenity fee top stop
- water and wind tower replacement
- Sumter bridge erosion shore up

Keep those wallets open folks
You can add replacement of under-road drainage system in Soulliere.

[Lottoguy]

Don't kid yourself about the "rural setting" excuse. They didn't install the concrete ribbon on those golf cart paths because it would save lots of money. Without that ribbon those paths will not hold up over time. Sometime down the road they will have to fix them.

[merrymini]

The cement ribbons absolutely help keep the asphalt together. I used to live in a town that had a lot of road with no curbing and the asphalt starts to break away at the edges. In this climate, with plants growing 11 months out of the the year versus 3 months, this could be an issue and will be in future. I have no problem with people making money. There would be no businesses without profit and the products we want would not exist without it. There are a great many issues south of 44 that do not attract me to buy there but from what I have heard, the bonds are sky high. Admittedly, I have not done the math, but a lot of unbuildable land means higher bonds I assume.

[Bogie Shooter]

The cement ribbons absolutely help keep the asphalt together. I used to live in a town that had a lot of road with no curbing and the asphalt starts to break away at the edges. In this climate, with plants growing 11 months out of the the year versus 3 months, this could be an issue and will be in future. I have no problem with people making money. There would be no businesses without profit and the products we want would not exist without it. There are a great many issues south of 44 that do not attract me to buy there but from what I have heard, the bonds are sky high. Admittedly, I have not done the math, but a lot of unbuildable land means higher bonds I assume.

Whole lot of assumptions…………

[Fastskiguy]

Sis is wrong. The paths down here are perfectly fine.

Yes

[JMintzer]

You said it. Unfortunately the Firm cheapened a lot south of 44: lot sizes, your MMP, shorter driveways, utilities in front yard, size of houses, narrower streets, etc.

The lot sizes are about the same. The newer homes south of 44 have shorter driveways because people wanted bigger back yards. They didn't want the "kissing lanais". They simply moved the houses closer to the street to accommodate that request...

[JMintzer]

This is how propaganda starts, someone told someone told someone and now it’s true.
Before posting you should have 1st hand knowledge.
The paths in the south are much more thought out and look better than the paths north of 44. Down south here, we have curbs when needed. We don’t have grass growing in our paths, and all of our paths are made for golf carts, not like the paths north of 466a. If you go head on to a path after crossing issuing a street where the gates are north of 466a, there is a harsh dip, which you don’t have down south. How about the accid by waiting to happen path north of 466 where the golf carts share the road with Morse? We don’t have that here, we are off the major roads. (Did the county vote yet to get rid of the Morse golf cart path yet?).

Have you driven down to St Catherine? Golf carts most certainly DO share a major road (Meggison) with cars...

[John Mayes]

Have you driven down to St Catherine? Golf carts most certainly DO share a major road (Meggison) with cars...

Actually, it’s Citrus Grove but you are correct. From the CG gate down through, at least Newall, the path is shared with Meggison. I assume it will be that all the way to 470 when finished.

[Altavia]

Have you driven down to St Catherine? Golf carts most certainly DO share a major road (Meggison) with cars...

Looks like they switch to Diamond lanes, are they restricted for 2 lane roads?

[VApeople]

Have you driven down to St Catherine? Golf carts most certainly DO share a major road (Meggison) with cars...

It is the same thing north of 44 on Moyer, Hillsborough, and Pinellas.

At least the walking path along Meggison is not as close to the road as the concrete sidewalks are north of 44.

Another good feature in the neighborhoods south of 44 as that dogs are not allowed at the postal stations and rec areas. Every time I go to our postal station in Osceola Hills, there are people walking thru the grass letting their dogs crap.

[Laker14]

The lack of ribbon burning and the degradation of the MMPs was brought up 2 or maybe 3 years ago when I was serving on the PWAC. I expressed my concerns over the long term stability and costs for maintaining them. I made the point that the lack of ribbon curbing was such a concern north of 44 for the roads in the PV and CYV communities that the individual CDD ended up funding the installations in these communities. I questioned why they were not included and could we mandate that they be installed going forward.

District staff said they would investigate and get back to us…
Two responses were received:
1. They examined the MMP and didn’t find any significant degradation except in one area around Bradford where heavy trucks had damaged the path and their was being repaired. - A complete load of BS, before I made my comments at the PWAC meeting I had already ridden down miles of the MMPs and seen dozens of locations where there was degradation and encroachment of the grass into the surface, I had also spent the evening of the Water Lilly bridge movement over the turnpike at the Water Lilly RC area and saw numerous areas were the walking paths had started to degrade after only a few months. This has been, is, and will continue to be an issue with the walking and MMPs south of 44. Eventually, these paths will either have to be resurfaced/rebuilt and/or ribbon curbing installed to stabilize them like they are north of 44. Either way it will come at considerable expense to the residents.
2. The ribbon curbing was eliminated as a cost savings measure. There are many more miles of walking and MMPs in the areas south of 44 than elsewhere in our community. This is due to the geography of the area and the large number of wetlands areas that were preserved resulting in longer paths and the addition of miles walking paths throughout the newer areas. It was a trade off, more paths or ribbon curbing. Had the ribbon curbing been installed it would have had a significant impact on the bonds that were issued for construction. (The bonds south of 44 are consistent with those north of 44 on a $/acre to developer, once you account for time and inflation over the many years, you cannot compare the raw numbers without looking at the rising cost/acre caused by inflation. But I’ve had this discussion several times here so no more rehash.). The walking and MMPs meet the “state standards”, I however argued that they didn’t meet the long established, but unwritten, “Villages Standards” for these paths, so the ribbon curbing isn’t mandated, and therefore not installed. A business decision, good short term but bad long term for the residents.

Because of the wetlands areas and grasses that abut the walking and MMPs the need for the stabilization provided by the ribbon curbing is needed more so in the areas south of 44 than they are needed in the existing areas north of 44.

There is a lot of validity to their side of the argument, however it comes down to pay-me-now-or-pay-me-later; well it looks like “now” is the long anticipated “later”.

As the MMP maintenance falls under the PWA as common infrastructure, all the residents south of 466 will eventually have to foot the bill for the PWF costs of repairs/upgrades. This was one of the many discussion points and reasons why PWAC2 was so favored by all the signatories of the PWA, well almost all. When the bill comes due for this, as it will eventually, all of us north of 44 must be sure to thank the board of CDD7 for their efforts in railroading the agreement with false and misguided intentions and not even taking the time to vote on the new agreement. Sorry for this side track, but it is a valid point that needed to be said.

The real question at hand needs to be will the CDD 12 & 13 boards and PWAC take the necessary actions now, to “fix” this issue now or will these paths be left to fester, rot, and decay until someone gets injured and they are forced to take decisive action to upgrade, at a much higher cost. Let your voices be heard now or let your wallet be hurt later.

Once again, thank you, Don for taking the time to enlighten us with actual facts. I have a couple of questions from this part of your post:
"As the MMP maintenance falls under the PWA as common infrastructure, all the residents south of 466 will eventually have to foot the bill for the PWF costs of repairs/upgrades. "

I looked but couldn't find what PWF stands for. Sorry if I missed it in the post, but couldn't locate it.
And to be sure I understand correctly, ALL MMPs, including the newer ones fabricated without concrete ribbons, are under one entity when it comes to maintenance ? So, even though I live between 466 and 466A, when the newer, more cheaply constructed MMPs built south of 44 deteriorate to the point of requiring intervention, I will be among those who will be charged in order to finance the repairs. Is that correct?

[Altavia]

Have you driven down to St Catherine? Golf carts most certainly DO share a major road (Meggison) with cars...

Also Marsh Bend Trail.

[vintageogauge]

It still baffles me why someone who doesn’t live south of 44, probably never visits south of 44 feels the need to bash everything south of 44 every chance he gets.

It might not be jealousy but it sure looks like some sort of personal insecurity.

I agree, is there anyone living down here complaining about the lack of "ribbons" I think not. I do know there is a lot of complaining about a new million dollar path that is too narrow to walk comfortably on but wait, that's north of 44 and those that are complaining live up there, those that live down here are not bashing it at all.

[RCMill531@comcast.net]

We love the beauty south of 44, including the golf paths.

[coffeebean]

Yes

No. The paths are not fine. I spoke with my sister again today and she said she started to notice the grass growing into the asphalt pretty much right away after the paths were built. This is the reason she says the paths look awful now.

[Goldwingnut]

Once again, thank you, Don for taking the time to enlighten us with actual facts. I have a couple of questions from this part of your post:
"As the MMP maintenance falls under the PWA as common infrastructure, all the residents south of 466 will eventually have to foot the bill for the PWF costs of repairs/upgrades. "

I looked but couldn't find what PWF stands for. Sorry if I missed it in the post, but couldn't locate it.
And to be sure I understand correctly, ALL MMPs, including the newer ones fabricated without concrete ribbons, are under one entity when it comes to maintenance ? So, even though I live between 466 and 466A, when the newer, more cheaply constructed MMPs built south of 44 deteriorate to the point of requiring intervention, I will be among those who will be charged in order to finance the repairs. Is that correct?

PWF - Project Wide Fund, it is the fund that all the members CDDs of the PWAC pay into from their respective maintenance assessments. These funds are combined and used to pay for the maintenance of the common areas. Things like cutting the grass and maintaining the storm water retention ponds. The Project Wide Agreement and its associated Project Wide Fund allow for substantial savings in contract and administrative costs by letting larger more comprehensive contracts and achieving economies of scale. Without the PWA/PWF each individual CDD would have to seek individual maintenance contracts. A few years ago while serving on the PWAC & CDD10 board, I did some digging, comparing, and calculating of the costs with and without the PWA in place, the results were that each member CDD is saving between 12% and 16% in their operating costs due to the PWA economies of scale and reduced administrative costs.

Regarding your second & third questions, the answer is Yes you will get to help pay for any of the upkeep costs, and you can thank CDD7's board for that privilege. Had they approved the 4th revision of the PWA, a PWAC2/PWA2 would have been formed south of 44 and that cost would have been carried by CDDs 12, 13, 14, and beyond and not the CDDs north of SR44. But of course, CDD7's chairman was smarter than the 42 other supervisors who approved of the new agreement and decided not to even allow it to be put it to a vote.

[Worldseries27]

could be waiting for what they call , “wet prairie settling” it should be noticed within the next 3-5 years…
rome wasn't built in a day

[crash]

...you think they should have built the retail, streets and pathways first, then the homes? Not the best economic plan especially for the business owners. Like building a Costco in the middle of the Mojave Desert and thinking all will flock there. Give it a few years, it will all come around.chilout

The paths and streets are built first but why build retail first if the population would not support it. You have to have customers before any business would want to move their business there.

Where the businesses will be are on the plan and when demand is there they will build them. Look at Brownwood and how long it took to build that out v

[Altavia]

Regarding your second & third questions, the answer is Yes you will get to help pay for any of the upkeep costs, and you can thank CDD7's board for that privilege. Had they approved the 4th revision of the PWA, a PWAC2/PWA2 would have been formed south of 44 and that cost would have been carried by CDDs 12, 13, 14, and beyond and not the CDDs north of SR44. But of course, CDD7's chairman was smarter than the 42 other supervisors who approved of the new agreement and decided not to even allow it to be put it to a vote.

Why is maintenance cost of new facilities higher than older?

[Marathon Man]

Why is maintenance cost of new facilities higher than older?

A presentation was given at each CDD board meeting explaining the reasons for the proposed formation of the PWAC2. Costs were explained. I was initially opposed to splitting the government structure. But, after seeing the presentation, I agreed with it.

[Goldwingnut]

Why is maintenance cost of new facilities higher than older?

On an apples to apples comparison, they are not and in fact may be lower because of newer materials, designs, and construction techniques. The costs of maintaining the older facilities has become lost to many as they have become long established and accepted costs, the newer facilities however as they begin to require maintenance get lots of attention as they are seen as “more money out of my pocket” when in fact these should be no different that existing costs. Do you get upset when you purchase a new car and then get upset when 4 months later you have to spend more money on it just to get an oil change? Facilities maintenance costs are no different, perhaps the biggest difference is the internet and social media, the many keyboard warriors that will raise a stink over every cost item in a budget without consideration of the facts and realities in their unbridled and uninformed rants in a vain attempt to try to raise their own social media status.

It the case of the waking trails and MMPs we are looking at an apples to oranges comparison. While both the curbed and uncurbed paths have the same function, they are constructed and will have to be maintained differently. Initial costs for the uncurbed paths is less as is the cost of replacing any given section on a linear foot basis due to the exclusion of the curbing. The curbed paths will undoubtedly have a longer and more stable useful life because of the curbing with a lower overall maintenance cost, but it comes at a higher initial price. The curbed paths however will have a higher replacement cost if a section need be replaced due to damage or other event.

Both curbed and uncurbed paths meet all state standards. The Villages had previously established a higher “Villages standard” of using a curbed path that under the new design criteria of the areas south of SR44 is obviously no longer economically sustainable and is now defaulting back to the state standards. The “I hate the developer” crowd will say that this is just about greed as they alway do, no, this is about business and the realities of dealing with the costs involved with construction and how the scale of even what seems like small things can have a significant impact. This all comes down to pay-me-now-or-pay-me-later, either way nothing is free and only one entity ever pays for anything, it’s not government or businesses, it is the one who ultimately benefits that must pay, the consumer.

[jedalton]

is there a website setup to report model paths that need repair?

[Bogie Shooter]

is there a website setup to report model paths that need repair?

VCDD District Property Management (https://districtgov.org/departments/District-Property-Management/district-property-management.aspx)

[The Chipster]

Sorry to be a nit-picker, but the engineer inside of me compels me to point out that you are speaking of "CONCRETE", not cement (which is part of concrete). I know, I know . . .

[rustyp]

Sorry to be a nit-picker, but the engineer inside of me compels me to point out that you are speaking of "CONCRETE", not cement (which is part of concrete). I know, I know . . .

RU sure ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3c9upXVQ0M

[Babber]

Another overlooked problem of the lack of "ribbons" is safety. I recently drove through the area on a early very foggy morning, The "ribbons" act as a guidance to stay on the path. Without the "ribbons" there is no outside guidance. The very least that should be done is apply the white striping on the exterior perimeters of the roadbed.

[JP]

I think the golf cart paths(and roads, and front yards, etc)south of 44 are dangerously more narrow.

[kendi]

Our MM Paths north of 44 have cement "ribbons" lining each side of the paths. This cement prevents the grass from invading the asphalt and gives the landscapers a sharp edge to keep the grass edged.

I personally have not driven on the cart paths south of 44 but my sister routinely takes a ride in her golf cart on Sundays south of 44. She has noticed that the paths down south do not have the cement "ribbon" along the sides of the asphalt. Without this ribbon of cement, the grass has invaded the asphalt and she told me those paths look awful.

Infrastructure on the cheap is what is happening down south. Too bad.

I have not seen any awful looking paths South of 44. Why does it matter to you anyway if you’ve never been? Just another chance to complain I suppose.

[JMintzer]

I have not seen any awful looking paths South of 44. Why does it matter to you anyway if you’ve never been? Just another chance to complain I suppose.

Appears that the sister doesn't live there, either...

[Altavia]

It the case of the waking trails and MMPs we are looking at an apples to oranges comparison. While both the curbed and uncurbed paths have the same function, they are constructed and will have to be maintained differently. Initial costs for the uncurbed paths is less as is the cost of replacing any given section on a linear foot basis due to the exclusion of the curbing. The curbed paths will undoubtedly have a longer and more stable useful life because of the curbing with a lower overall maintenance cost, but it comes at a higher initial price. The curbed paths however will have a higher replacement cost if a section need be replaced due to damage or other event.

.

Understood, the Water Tower designed to last just ten years came with an interesting explaination.

https://www.districtgov.org/PdfUpload/PWAC%20fact%20sheet%20-%20Water%20Tower%20and%20Windmill%205.19.22.pdf


I know why residents of more established areas might not want to share in the cost of maintaining/upgrading new paths constructed to minimum standards in the south.

But everyone can use the paths and the beautiful trails down here that attract many from the older legacy areas of the Villages.

This will be more so as the new Lifestyle Center and multiple golf courses area completed.

I'll point out also the older areas of The Villages are benefiting from relatively lower property taxes given the inflation in prices for the newer homes. A new home buyer could be paying more than double the property tax of a similar home purchased more than 10 (maybe 5) years ago - that's life.

[rustyp]

Did you ever own a blacktop drive with no edge protection such as concrete curbing or gravel shoulder ? Was that drive narrow enough that your car was parked close to the edge ? End result cracking and crumbling - guaranteed. Looks like - well you know what. Ever try to patch it ? How did that look ? Those MMPs get cart pressure on the edges all day long. They will fail. I have already observed this on those paths. If those paths have not been transferred from the developer to the CDDs contact your rep and insist considering not to accept possession without resolution or a maintenance agreement.

[tophcfa]

I'll point out also the older areas of The Villages are benefiting from relatively lower property taxes given the inflation in prices for the newer homes. A new home buyer could be paying more than double the property tax of a similar home purchased more than 10 (maybe 5) years ago - that's life.

Apparently you are not aware of the 25% property tax increase to Sumpter County homeowners that was necessitated by the infrastructure needs created by all the newer homes referenced in your post. Also, you apparently are not aware that all homes in Sumter County, regardless of when they were purchased, were recently reassessed to reflect current market values for tax calculations.

[tuccillo]

Properties are reassessed each year anyway. If you are homesteaded, there is a limit to how much the assessed value can increase because of the Save Our Homes law (about 3% or the CPI, whichever is lower). If you are homesteaded, the market value is not what your taxes are based on. They are based on the assessed value. Some of the 25% tax increase has been reduced the last 2 years. Also, the 25% increase was on the County Tax only, not the School Tax or the line items for fire and maintenance. The net effect was more like a total of about a 12% increase.

Apparently you are not aware of the 25% property tax increase to Sumpter County homeowners that was necessitated by the infrastructure needs created by all the newer homes referenced in your post. Also, you apparently are not aware that all homes in Sumter County, regardless of when they were purchased, were recently reassessed to reflect current market values for tax calculations.

[VApeople]

Apparently you are not aware of the 25% property tax increase to Sumpter County homeowners

No, we are not aware of that tax increase. Our property tax was less than last year.

[Altavia]

Our MM Paths north of 44 have cement "ribbons" lining each side of the paths. This cement prevents the grass from invading the asphalt and gives the landscapers a sharp edge to keep the grass edged.

I personally have not driven on the cart paths south of 44 but my sister routinely takes a ride in her golf cart on Sundays south of 44. She has noticed that the paths down south do not have the cement "ribbon" along the sides of the asphalt. Without this ribbon of cement, the grass has invaded the asphalt and she told me those paths look awful.

Infrastructure on the cheap is what is happening down south. Too bad.

Never paid attention, but at least the path from Monarch Grove to Everglades to the Turnpike bridge to has curbing..

[Altavia]

No, we are not aware of that tax increase. Our property tax was less than last year.

Thanks to the county investing in infrastructure that creates thousands of jobs and results in adding over two billion dollars of new homes each year to the tax base which keeps taxes low for all.

[VApeople]

Thanks to the country investing in infrastructure that creates thousands of jobs and results in adding over two billion dollars of new homes each year to the tax base which keeps taxes low for all.

Yeah, if you say so. We don't think that deeply.

[bobeaston]

Appears that the sister doesn't live there, either...It is very interesting how much of a hornets' nest can be stirred up by someone citing a second hand account of something that "looks terrible." Here we are, on page 8 of commentary because of something the original poster hasn't actually seen. Amazing.

[Normal]

Just another, “Hate everything south of 44” post…lol. Turnpike noises, new changes etc…

[Rheimer]

We will be paying for the repairs down south here sooner than later with all the people parking in the grass every day/night at Sawgrass Grove. There is plenty of parking in the parking lot. Drive by some evening and you will see the parking lot for golf carts is empty and the parking in the grass off the MM path in front of Sawgrass will be full. This is going to lead to grass replacement and repaving of the MM path as the edges of the path deteriorate. Don Wiley hit it right on the head in his last video as to the reason people are parking there. Keep up the great work Don.

[GizmoWhiskers]

Excellent info!

[eyc234]

:shocked: Just noticed on much of Buena Vista there is no cement curbing. The grass is not growing over like a jungle and the side of the roadway seems to be in good shape. Just asking if this is really a big issue. I would guess that both Buena Vista and Morse Blvd both are much more traveled by vehicles than any MM path. Is this just another false issue for some to complain about like striping the MM path so people can see but they have no issue driving on streets that are not striped on the sides or striped at all in neighborhoods. The issue of grass growing over path in the picture is an issue that should be brought up to the landscaping crews.

[VApeople]

the path from Monarch Grove to Everglades to the Turnpike bridge to has curbing..

Yeah, and I hate it!

My wife and I often walk around Hogeye Sink, which means we have to walk along that section of the MMP. We walk single file and facing oncoming golf cart traffic, and we get off the MMP when golf carts come along. That means we have to step over the hated concrete curb and, since my balance is not too good, I am always afraid of tripping on it.

[Bill14564]

Yeah, and I hate it!

My wife and I often walk around Hogeye Sink, which means we have to walk along that section of the MMP. We walk single file and facing oncoming golf cart traffic, and we get off the MMP when golf carts come along. That means we have to step over the hated concrete curb and, since my balance is not too good, I am always afraid of tripping on it.

Where along the MMP, specifically, is the concrete curbing raised above the level of the blacktop? Except for tunnels and roundabouts, all the MMP ribbon I can remember is flush with the surface.

[coffeebean]

Yeah, and I hate it!

My wife and I often walk around Hogeye Sink, which means we have to walk along that section of the MMP. We walk single file and facing oncoming golf cart traffic, and we get off the MMP when golf carts come along. That means we have to step over the hated concrete curb and, since my balance is not too good, I am always afraid of tripping on it.

The issue I brought up in my original post is not about curbs that are higher than the asphalt. My original issue is with the concrete ribbon that lines the paths on both sides. Those ribbons are the same height as the asphalt. It is there to protect the asphalt from degrading and breaking off. It is also nice to have so the landscapers can keep a nice sharp edge along the paths.

[VApeople]

Where along the MMP, specifically, is the concrete curbing raised above the level of the blacktop?

Since you are riding in a golf cart, you may not see the places where the concrete curbing is not exactly even with the blacktop. It doesn't take much of a difference to make me trip.

[Bogie Shooter]

A perfect world would eliminate all tripping hazards.
OMG what more can someone do for me………….

[jimjamuser]

MMP paths have cement. borders. Think she's taking about walking paths.
Just to be informative and educational (not snarky)....... cement is not strong by itself. It is the chemical GLUE that holds CONCRETE together. Concrete is mostly made up of rocks and sand, then water is added producing a chemical reaction (you can feel the heat given off) which "GLUES" the whole mess together. Granted many people use the terms cement and concrete as interchangeable, but they are not, technically speaking. "And now you know the rest of the story".