Question Bicyclists and Stop Signs

[rustyp]

What is the law regarding cyclists and stop signs ? Today at Watertower circle two very large groups entered the circle from Lester Drive which has a stop sign at full speed - no stop. I mean no stop. Both lead bikers did not hesitate and went into the circle full bore and the groups followed. It was like they were entering a roundabout except there is a stop sign. There was a car coming around the circle and both car and cyclists met at the intersection. It appeared the leader made the decision not to stop by staying to the extreme right. The road in the circle is about two lanes wide but not marked (striped) as such.

[tophcfa]

Based on my observations (not the law), it appears the stop signs are required for cars, suggestions for golf carts, and invisible to bikers?

[villagetinker]

The law states cyclists are required to obey ALL traffic laws just as drivers are required to, however you have observed the actual practice.

[JP]

It seems like quite a few of the bikers want you, the general public, to obey all the laws enacted for the bikers but the bikers get to pick and choose when they obey the laws. They act elite and entitled.

[ElDiabloJoe]

Dontcha know, cyclists are above petty traffic signs. Ya know what's fun, pull them over for running the stop sign and demand to see their driver's license. When they argue they don't have it because they are not driving, remind them they are operating a vehicle on city streets - requiring a driver's license. Then cite for same, and the stop sign violation (22450a).

Try to find the Lance Armstrong leader of the peloton, it is usually more effective.

Funny thing is, they don't find it nearly as amusing as I did.

[Arctic Fox]

It is just as well that those of us who drive cars and golf carts always come to a complete stop at Stop signs, or we wouldn't be in a position to be so critical of those who do not.

Failing to come to a complete stop is dangerous and against the law, whatever vehicle you are in charge of.

[Paul1934]

Retired LEO, they are subject to all vehicle codes. Have issued summonses to biker violators in situations where they blew off stop signs and traffic lights. Most complain about how hard(inconvenient) it is to stop and restart.

[Tvflguy]

It seems like quite a few of the bikers want you, the general public, to obey all the laws enacted for the bikers but the bikers get to pick and choose when they obey the laws. They act elite and entitled.

Yes and they believe that the skintight spandex and cute helmets allow them to flaunt laws. One of these days road rage could very well occur. I have seen the same nonstop streaming with no stop at signs and a line of the Entitled streaming into and thru roundabouts. One of these days….

[Babubhat]

The same people are quick to complain when run over. Karma goes around

[ThirdOfFive]

It seems like quite a few of the bikers want you, the general public, to obey all the laws enacted for the bikers but the bikers get to pick and choose when they obey the laws. They act elite and entitled.
Indeed. Such an attitude does NOT win many friends.

It is not just TV. Bicyclists pretty much everywhere are perceived in large part as entitled snobs, several cuts above we ignorant peons tooling around in our smog-belching internal combustion engines.

[coffeebean]

Based on my observations (not the law), it appears the stop signs are required for cars, suggestions for golf carts, and invisible to bikers?

Aren't bikers supposed to follow the rules of the road, including stop signs?

[John-US]

Maybe it's not an act and they ARE entitled? hmmmmm

[coffeebean]

Retired LEO, they are subject to all vehicle codes. Have issued summonses to biker violators in situations where they blew off stop signs and traffic lights. Most complain about how hard(inconvenient) it is to stop and restart.

Well, it takes a lot of effort for me to put my wittle foot on the brake pedal and then move said foot back to the accelerator pedal. Oh my, such problems in life.

[Boffin]

What is the law regarding cyclists and stop signs ? Today at Watertower circle two very large groups entered the circle from Lester Drive which has a stop sign at full speed - no stop. I mean no stop. Both lead bikers did not hesitate and went into the circle full bore and the groups followed. It was like they were entering a roundabout except there is a stop sign. There was a car coming around the circle and both car and cyclists met at the intersection. It appeared the leader made the decision not to stop by staying to the extreme right. The road in the circle is about two lanes wide but not marked (striped) as such.
They are proud to be Darwin Award candidates.

[JMintzer]

Well, it takes a lot of effort for me to put my wittle foot on the brake pedal and then move said foot back to the accelerator pedal. Oh my, such problems in life.

"Brake pedal"??? On a bike?

[Dotneko]

"Brake pedal"??? On a bike?

I believe they are sarcastically referring to braking while in a car or cart. If its too hard for the cyclists, its equally as hard for drivers....

[tophcfa]

What does that superpower, common sense, dictate what is safest? Move as a group in one smooth transaction while autoists use the other lane to pass.

Or it might be safest to not ride in large groups, so there is no need to ignore the law so as not to disrupt traffic flow?

[wisbad1]

It is just as well that those of us who drive cars and golf carts always come to a complete stop at Stop signs, or we wouldn't be in a position to be so critical of those who do not.

Failing to come to a complete stop is dangerous and against the law, whatever vehicle you are in charge of.
Should see carts and bikes flying out of the path from Eisenhower rec ,

[JerryLBell]

Studies have shown that, despite common sense, having bicycles treat stop signs as yield signs actually decreases the chances of bicycles being involved in accidents at intersections. That is why nine states have created laws to allow this. However, I do not believe Florida to be among them.

Bicycling friends of mine do feel that it is safer to bike in a group (a group is more visible than a single biker). To keep the group together sometimes means rolling through stop signs or going across traffic circles in a line. I don't know if I entirely agree with them on that.

Some also believe it is safer to ride on the roads than it is on "multi-modal" or "safety" paths. They claim that cart drivers on the multi-modal paths in The Villages are more prone to hit bikes than do cars. I don't know about that. I guess I'd rather be hit by a 1,000-pound golf cart doing 20 mph than a 3,000-4,000 pound car doing 35 mph (or faster outside of The Bubble).

I don't think bicyclers are inherently entitle snobs any more than I think all car and golf cart drivers in The Villages are distracted, drunk or too old to safely have licenses. I bicycle some, drive my cart around and definitely use my car and try to be careful when doing any of those and to see the point of view of all of those groups.

[Happydaz]

They are proud to be Darwin Award candidates.

Unfortunately in the Villages, it is the golf cart drivers who are getting the Darwin awards. They hit signs, the entrance to tunnels, or run into cars. I think we need to be more concerned about golf cart safety in The Villages than worrying about bicycles not stopping at stop signs. Many golf cart riders have been killed in the Villages in the last ten years. Why is no one concerned about this? I have seen golf cart drivers driving very fast. Many carts have been altered to exceed 20 mph. Many golf cart drivers are very reckless. Something needs to be done about the number of deaths in golf carts.

[JGibson]

Back North I know someone who got a $50 ticket for not having a bell. lol.

[JMintzer]

I believe they are sarcastically referring to braking while in a car or cart. If its too hard for the cyclists, its equally as hard for drivers....

Well, they were responding to a post about a former LEO citing "bicycle riders" for not stopping at stop signs, so...

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

What is the law regarding cyclists and stop signs ? Today at Watertower circle two very large groups entered the circle from Lester Drive which has a stop sign at full speed - no stop. I mean no stop. Both lead bikers did not hesitate and went into the circle full bore and the groups followed. It was like they were entering a roundabout except there is a stop sign. There was a car coming around the circle and both car and cyclists met at the intersection. It appeared the leader made the decision not to stop by staying to the extreme right. The road in the circle is about two lanes wide but not marked (striped) as such.

The only way they were going "at full speed" would be if they were riding e-bikes. That's the top of a fairly steep, very long hill.

The law is that they should each have stopped first.

The thing about stopping first in a large group though - is they were going uphill on a very long, fairly steep road. They would have had to EACH stop at the end of an incline. For the less athletic of the bunch - near the back of the line of bikes, that would sometimes mean WALKING their bike up the rest of the hill to the traffic circle. That means everyone in front of them would be sitting ON the traffic circle waiting for the rest of them to catch up.

This also would have resulted in any cars or golf carts behind them, being held up while they waited for everyone ahead of them to walk their bikes up the rest of the hill, and then regroup and start riding again in the traffic circle. There is no cart lane or sidewalk or MMP at that intersection for the bikes to travel on.

That is - dangerous. Yes, it's the law. But in this situation it's also dangerous.

So while you're correct that it's the law, it's also a really REALLY bad idea for a large group of bicycles to stop on Lester, St. Andrews Kiley, Magnolia, or Boone. One or two or even three together is one thing - there's little holdup, little risk. But two "large groups" - is dangerous.

[Happydaz]

Often people worry about "perceived threats" more than real threats. They worry about bicylists going through a stop sign and post on a forum and then they jump into a golf cart. Some have no seat belts and all have no helmets and yet head injuries and deaths occur every year. So which is the real threat?

Analysis of death and disability due to golf cart crashes in The Villages, Florida: 2011-2019 - PubMed (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32812819/)

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Often people worry about "perceived threats" more than real threats. They worry about bicylists going through a stop sign and post on a forum and then they jump into a golf cart. Some have no seat belts and all have no helmets and yet head injuries and deaths occur every year. So which is the real threat?

Analysis of death and disability due to golf cart crashes in The Villages, Florida: 2011-2019 - PubMed (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32812819/)

I think these drivers of motor vehicles are just upset because they know their reflexes aren't what they used to be, and they're not good enough drivers anymore to stop in time. Or they refuse to get new eyeglasses because the ones they paid "good money" for 5 years ago are just fine. Or their attention span is more limited than it used to be, because they're busy on a very important phone call and shouldn't have to watch the road.

[VApeople]

Many golf cart riders have been killed in the Villages in the last ten years. Why is no one concerned about this?

I am not concerned because we don't own a golf cart.

[Jensor17]

I agree with VillageTinker. I come from Maryland, and bicycle riders there had to obey same laws as cars and large vehicles. Bikers should have slowed, stopped, looked, Then proceed with caution. I observed this rampant disregard traffic law by local bikers in The Villages.
IT WILL ONLY TAKE ONE HORRIBLE DEATH IN A COLLISION BEFORE THE BIKERS LEARN A LESSON:
(1) A MOTOR VEHICLE CANNOT STOP AS FAST AS A BIKE, AND
(2) HUMANS RARELY SURVIVE COLLISIONS WITH 4000 LBS. OF METAL

[me4vt]

Did anyone say they were looking for Friends? That’s another subject🥴

[Oneiric]

Are there any bicyclists in this thread? I don't ride a bike but guess that the leader would say that stopping and starting a large group would be like an accordion in the midst of traffic. Although not following the laws, impractical and dangerous.

[chrisinva]

For those who didn't or couldn't read the PubMed report here's the conclusion " During the observation period, a total of 875 GC-related crashes occurred, representing an average of 136 crashes, 65 hospitalizations, and 9 dead or disabled annually. Of all crashes, 48% resulted in hospitalization, severe trauma, or death. Of these, ejection occurred in 27%, hospitalization in 55%, and death or disability in 15% of crashes. Virtually all death and disability occurred within the setting of GC used on streets or road pathways. Death and disability, particularly due to ejection during GC crashes, occur at an alarming rate when GCs are used for local transportation. We believe public awareness and the use of 3-point seatbelts in these vehicles would significantly reduce death and disability caused by these crashes."

Makes a lot of sense to me.

[GizmoWhiskers]

What is the law regarding cyclists and stop signs ? Today at Watertower circle two very large groups entered the circle from Lester Drive which has a stop sign at full speed - no stop. I mean no stop. Both lead bikers did not hesitate and went into the circle full bore and the groups followed. It was like they were entering a roundabout except there is a stop sign. There was a car coming around the circle and both car and cyclists met at the intersection. It appeared the leader made the decision not to stop by staying to the extreme right. The road in the circle is about two lanes wide but not marked (striped) as such.

In case no one has posted:

FL State Statute
316.2065
6(b) When stopping at a stop sign, persons riding bicycles in groups, after coming to a full stop and obeying all traffic laws, may proceed through the stop sign in a group of 10 or fewer at a time. Motor vehicle operators must allow one such group to travel through the intersection before moving forward.

Statutes & Constitution
:View Statutes
:

Online Sunshine (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0300-0399/0316/Sections/0316.2065.html#:~:text=Where%20bicycle%20lanes%20e xist%2C%20persons,and%20within%20the%20bicycle%20l ane).

[roscoguy]

The only way they were going "at full speed" would be if they were riding e-bikes. That's the top of a fairly steep, very long hill.

The law is that they should each have stopped first.

The thing about stopping first in a large group though - is they were going uphill on a very long, fairly steep road. They would have had to EACH stop at the end of an incline. For the less athletic of the bunch - near the back of the line of bikes, that would sometimes mean WALKING their bike up the rest of the hill to the traffic circle. That means everyone in front of them would be sitting ON the traffic circle waiting for the rest of them to catch up.

This also would have resulted in any cars or golf carts behind them, being held up while they waited for everyone ahead of them to walk their bikes up the rest of the hill, and then regroup and start riding again in the traffic circle. There is no cart lane or sidewalk or MMP at that intersection for the bikes to travel on.

That is - dangerous. Yes, it's the law. But in this situation it's also dangerous.

So while you're correct that it's the law, it's also a really REALLY bad idea for a large group of bicycles to stop on Lester, St. Andrews Kiley, Magnolia, or Boone. One or two or even three together is one thing - there's little holdup, little risk. But two "large groups" - is dangerous.

I agree with almost all of your points here, but the law regarding cyclists changed last year. In 2021, the governor signed a bill which, among other things, made it legal for groups of 10 or fewer cyclists to proceed through an intersection as a group, after a complete stop. This, according to advocacyadvance.org. Florida Has a New Bike Safety Law: Here's What You Need to Know - Advocacy Advance (https://www.advocacyadvance.org/2021/07/florida-has-a-new-bike-safety-law-heres-what-you-need-to-know/)
What he declined to do was allow cyclists to do a 'rolling stop' - which means that they could treat stop signs as yield signs, NOT as an automatic right of way.

[rustyp]

What is the law regarding cyclists and stop signs ? Today at Watertower circle two very large groups entered the circle from Lester Drive which has a stop sign at full speed - no stop. I mean no stop. Both lead bikers did not hesitate and went into the circle full bore and the groups followed. It was like they were entering a roundabout except there is a stop sign. There was a car coming around the circle and both car and cyclists met at the intersection. It appeared the leader made the decision not to stop by staying to the extreme right. The road in the circle is about two lanes wide but not marked (striped) as such.

The only way they were going "at full speed" would be if they were riding e-bikes. That's the top of a fairly steep, very long hill.

The law is that they should each have stopped first.

The thing about stopping first in a large group though - is they were going uphill on a very long, fairly steep road. They would have had to EACH stop at the end of an incline. For the less athletic of the bunch - near the back of the line of bikes, that would sometimes mean WALKING their bike up the rest of the hill to the traffic circle. That means everyone in front of them would be sitting ON the traffic circle waiting for the rest of them to catch up.

This also would have resulted in any cars or golf carts behind them, being held up while they waited for everyone ahead of them to walk their bikes up the rest of the hill, and then regroup and start riding again in the traffic circle. There is no cart lane or sidewalk or MMP at that intersection for the bikes to travel on.

That is - dangerous. Yes, it's the law. But in this situation it's also dangerous.

So while you're correct that it's the law, it's also a really REALLY bad idea for a large group of bicycles to stop on Lester, St. Andrews Kiley, Magnolia, or Boone. One or two or even three together is one thing - there's little holdup, little risk. But two "large groups" - is dangerous.

Poor choice of words on my part. What I meant was the lead cyclist did not even hesitate at the stop sign. I would not know what full speed is. Is that not a function of each rider's ability ? It is fascinating to me the rush to defend the people that broke the law but no mention of the car driver being violated in the name of their safety. That corner is nearly a blind corner and those cyclists could have easily startled the car driver and result in who knows what ?

[Chee-Chee]

It’s not as simple as tapping your breaks in a car. Hit a cyclist and even if it completely not your fault, you’re in the middle of a law suit. Then good luck.

[toeser]

What is the law regarding cyclists and stop signs ? Today at Watertower circle two very large groups entered the circle from Lester Drive which has a stop sign at full speed - no stop. I mean no stop. Both lead bikers did not hesitate and went into the circle full bore and the groups followed. It was like they were entering a roundabout except there is a stop sign. There was a car coming around the circle and both car and cyclists met at the intersection. It appeared the leader made the decision not to stop by staying to the extreme right. The road in the circle is about two lanes wide but not marked (striped) as such.


Smart states have laws that a stop sign is a yield sign for bikes. Florida is not one of those states. In any event, even if Florida had that law, the bikers were wrong because they did not yield.

[Topgun 1776]

Yes and they believe that the skintight spandex and cute helmets allow them to flaunt laws. One of these days road rage could very well occur. I have seen the same nonstop streaming with no stop at signs and a line of the Entitled streaming into and thru roundabouts. One of these days….

Remember...this is a public forum. Written threats that turn to actions...even years later... will be used against you.

We are all mostly retired here. What is anyone in so much of a hurry that you target any group...walkers, cyclists, golf carts etc?!?!?!? Seriously!!!

There's not a single mode of travel we Villagers use in TV that doesn't include others doing repetitive, dumb stuff...on a frequent basis.

Even when the other party is at fault, we are mandated to avoid the accident using any practical and prudent means necessary to do such.

Be careful with your threats...idle hands are the devil's workshop!!!

[Bill14564]

For those who didn't or couldn't read the PubMed report here's the conclusion " During the observation period, a total of 875 GC-related crashes occurred, representing an average of 136 crashes, 65 hospitalizations, and 9 dead or disabled annually. Of all crashes, 48% resulted in hospitalization, severe trauma, or death. Of these, ejection occurred in 27%, hospitalization in 55%, and death or disability in 15% of crashes. Virtually all death and disability occurred within the setting of GC used on streets or road pathways. Death and disability, particularly due to ejection during GC crashes, occur at an alarming rate when GCs are used for local transportation. We believe public awareness and the use of 3-point seatbelts in these vehicles would significantly reduce death and disability caused by these crashes."

Makes a lot of sense to me.

Do you use a 3-point seatbelt in your cart? Have you ever seen a 3-point seatbelt on a cart (I haven't)? Do you suppose the authors of the study have any data on the effectiveness of 3-point seatbelts on carts to back up that conclusion?

9 dead or disabled annually seems high to me. We have been here over two years now and though I read the bad-news paper regularly I can't remember hearing about 18 serious accidents in that time. Perhaps they don't make the paper or perhaps something changed since the report was written.

[nhtexasrn]

Retired LEO, they are subject to all vehicle codes. Have issued summonses to biker violators in situations where they blew off stop signs and traffic lights. Most complain about how hard(inconvenient) it is to stop and restart.
Well, it actually is a pain. A most cyclers are usually clipped-in to the pedals and in a high gear when they get to a stop sign. They have to unclip, stop and then restart in a high gear which can be difficult especially on a hill. That being said, they are still required to obey all traffic laws just like any other vehicle, whether it's a pain or not, by planning ahead, gearing down, unclip early and stop. Now, let's get all the cars and golf carts to do the same and we will be in good shape.

[GizmoWhiskers]

Yes and they believe that the skintight spandex and cute helmets allow them to flaunt laws. One of these days road rage could very well occur. I have seen the same nonstop streaming with no stop at signs and a line of the Entitled streaming into and thru roundabouts. One of these days….

As I posted on this thread, FL statute allows groups of up to 10 to go through stop signs as one unit. A post such as this comes across as a veil threat of potential road rage against a cyclist. Keep in mind that most cyclists these days have mounted cameras on either their bikes or their "cute" helmets. The cameras do let karma play out. Cyclists misbehaiving will be recorded as well. Relative to road rage, seems one would want to protect their freedom and retirement "nest egg" over a temporary inconvenience.

[nhtexasrn]

Are there any bicyclists in this thread? I don't ride a bike but guess that the leader would say that stopping and starting a large group would be like an accordion in the midst of traffic. Although not following the laws, impractical and dangerous.
A group of cyclists uses hand signals to alert others what they are about to do. There is a signal for slow, stop, right turn, left turn, pothole, etc. I've ridden in organized rides where there are hundreds of cyclists and it works if everyone knows what they are doing. The problem is there those who don't and that can cause a problem.

[Manders]

When I’m on my bike, I complain about cars and their drivers, when I’m driving my car I complain about bikers. See I fit in with both groups.

Reading these posts reminds me why I should quit reading these posts. Bunch of old curmudgeons.

[fdpaq0580]

As I posted on this thread, FL statute allows groups of up to 10 to go through stop signs as one unit. A post such as this comes across as a veil threat of potential road rage against a cyclist. Keep in mind that most cyclists these days have mounted cameras on either their bikes or their "cute" helmets. The cameras do let karma play out. Cyclists misbehaiving will be recorded as well. Relative to road rage, seems one would want to protect their freedom and retirement "nest egg" over a temporary inconvenience.

If I understand the statute correctly, the cyclists can Not go through the stop sign. They must come to a complete stop before proceeding as a group. Blowing through the stop sign is not acceptable.
Also, I did not interpret tvflguy's post as a threat, but as simply a warning that, sooner or later, a really bad accident could happen.
Understand and obey the rules, and don't go looking for threats where there are none.

[terryf484]

What is the law regarding cyclists and stop signs ? Today at Watertower circle two very large groups entered the circle from Lester Drive which has a stop sign at full speed - no stop. I mean no stop. Both lead bikers did not hesitate and went into the circle full bore and the groups followed. It was like they were entering a roundabout except there is a stop sign. There was a car coming around the circle and both car and cyclists met at the intersection. It appeared the leader made the decision not to stop by staying to the extreme right. The road in the circle is about two lanes wide but not marked (striped) as such.

How dare they!!! About the same as all the drivers that think the 35 mph speed limit is for everyone else!!

[sowilts]

Are there any bicyclists in this thread? I don't ride a bike but guess that the leader would say that stopping and starting a large group would be like an accordion in the midst of traffic. Although not following the laws, impractical and dangerous.
I’m a road bicyclist and have been for over 60 years. Yes I stop at more than posted stop signs. Learned at an early age I would lose to anything on the road that would make me have a bad day. Cars, Trucks, Trains, Dogs and especially Cats. They are very strong. I don’t ride in groups because all it takes is one bump and everyone may fall.

[john352]

Dontcha know, cyclists are above petty traffic signs. Ya know what's fun, pull them over for running the stop sign and demand to see their driver's license. When they argue they don't have it because they are not driving, remind them they are operating a vehicle on city streets - requiring a driver's license. Then cite for same, and the stop sign violation (22450a).

Try to find the Lance Armstrong leader of the peloton, it is usually more effective.

Funny thing is, they don't find it nearly as amusing as I did.


Florida law states that bicycle riders have to obey all traffic laws like a car drivers. However, a driver's license is not required to drive a golf cart or a bicycle.,

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Poor choice of words on my part. What I meant was the lead cyclist did not even hesitate at the stop sign. I would not know what full speed is. Is that not a function of each rider's ability ? It is fascinating to me the rush to defend the people that broke the law but no mention of the car driver being violated in the name of their safety. That corner is nearly a blind corner and those cyclists could have easily startled the car driver and result in who knows what ?

It's not a blind corner, or close to it. The water tower circle is a two-lane circle, a pretty big one that goes all the way around the entire country club building, pool, golf cart garage for cart rentals, and starter shack. If you're stopped at the line on Lester, you have a view to your left of all traffic coming from Boone (which around 1/3 around the other side of the circle). If you inch forward you can see almost to Boone itself, and all incoming traffic from the parking lot at Hilltop.

If someone coming from Boone actually stopped at THEIR corner first - then the bicycles on Lester would have started back up from their stop, and already be on the circle by the time that car gets around to Lester.

If someone had come in from Magnolia, they'd be on the inside lane, and wouldn't be interfering with incoming traffic on Lester at all.

[srswans]

Many things are illegal, many laws place people in danger. Such is the stop at traffic circle for cyclists.

It only takes a moment of thinking to see how twenty cyclists stopping individually then slowly gaining speed individually with entitled autoists trying desperately to get around them while some kind hearted souls are determined to yield their right of way to cyclists. What would you end up with? A smooth traffic flow?

NO

Well in some circles they would even call it a cluster f#@$ of confusion.

What does that superpower, common sense, dictate what is safest? Move as a group in one smooth transaction while autoists use the other lane to pass.

Exactly. It’s a matter of practical efficiency.

[rustyp]

It's not a blind corner, or close to it. The water tower circle is a two-lane circle, a pretty big one that goes all the way around the entire country club building, pool, golf cart garage for cart rentals, and starter shack. If you're stopped at the line on Lester, you have a view to your left of all traffic coming from Boone (which around 1/3 around the other side of the circle). If you inch forward you can see almost to Boone itself, and all incoming traffic from the parking lot at Hilltop.

If someone coming from Boone actually stopped at THEIR corner first - then the bicycles on Lester would have started back up from their stop, and already be on the circle by the time that car gets around to Lester.

If someone had come in from Magnolia, they'd be on the inside lane, and wouldn't be interfering with incoming traffic on Lester at all.

And that is the key if you stop. At the intersection of Lester and Watertower Circle coming from Lester there is a row of bushes on the left hand side on the far side of the Hilltop golf parking lot. One needs to get close to the stop sign to see around them. Now back to the issue - are the cyclists required by law to stop. Some are saying yes and some are saying one stops and ten can go through.

[Tyson]

Head right at them with horn blowing FULL BLAST and watch them poop tier pants. It works, they ALL STOP.

[ThirdOfFive]

A group of cyclists uses hand signals to alert others what they are about to do. There is a signal for slow, stop, right turn, left turn, pothole, etc. I've ridden in organized rides where there are hundreds of cyclists and it works if everyone knows what they are doing. The problem is there those who don't and that can cause a problem.
Yeah, I've seen those hand signals.

What does the one mean where a rider raises one hand high over his head with a certain finger extended?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Head right at them with horn blowing FULL BLAST and watch them poop tier pants. It works, they ALL STOP.

Yup - they stop, right in front of you. And you are stuck there until they get around to moving again.

That'll learn'em!

Also - if you're heading "right at them" then you're going the wrong way around a 1-way traffic circle, into the wrong lane. Way to go, Skippy!

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Yeah, I've seen those hand signals.

What does the one mean where a rider raises one hand high over his head with a certain finger extended?

It means "get the #()$* out of my way."

[Fastskiguy]

Are there any bicyclists in this thread? I don't ride a bike but guess that the leader would say that stopping and starting a large group would be like an accordion in the midst of traffic. Although not following the laws, impractical and dangerous.

Yes definitely, a very slow moving wobbly accordion.

But ebikes make it a hell of a lot easier to get going again so there is that.

Joe

[pdearmond]

Based on my observations (not the law), it appears the stop signs are required for cars, suggestions for golf carts, and invisible to bikers?

That about sums it up!

[manaboutown]

Maybe that is why there are so many DOA bicyclists all over the country.

[Happydaz]

Maybe that is why there are so many DOA bicyclists all over the country.

That is also why there are also so many DOA auto deaths per year as well as DOA golf cart deaths. Another startling statistic is the number of pedestrians that die each year by being hit by motor vehicles. Then again the largest cause of death each year in the US is heart disease. Heart disease is often due to lifestyle choices such as over eating and lack of exercise. Heart disease kills more people than anything else, but no one here talks about this because they like to overeat, drink, and not exercise. If people were really concerned about people being DOA they would pay attention to the most frequent causes of death, but no, they complain about all the little stuff, not the elephant in the room. I guess that’s human nature

[Happydaz]

I just became aware of an accident that occurred where a bicyclist who blew through a stop sign hit an SUV and totaled the SUV. The driver and passenger in the SUV were both seriously injured and taken to a local trauma center. The bicyclist was a 23 year old visiting his grand parents in The Villages. He was unscathed by the collision and his bike had a few scratches and a flat tire. The police are investigating.

[fdpaq0580]

Exactly. It’s a matter of practical efficiency.

Lame excuse.
So, biker group blows a stop sign and an accident happens. Police show up and shoot everyone involved. The rookie asks why and is told, "it's a matter of practice efficiency". Saves time and money for everyone.

[Sabella]

The bicycle riding groups create traffic and safety issues especially when large groups are riding on Morse and Buena Vista.

[cyrillulu]

Unfortunately in the Villages, it is the golf cart drivers who are getting the Darwin awards. They hit signs, the entrance to tunnels, or run into cars. I think we need to be more concerned about golf cart safety in The Villages than worrying about bicycles not stopping at stop signs. Many golf cart riders have been killed in the Villages in the last ten years. Why is no one concerned about this? I have seen golf cart drivers driving very fast. Many carts have been altered to exceed 20 mph. Many golf cart drivers are very reckless. Something needs to be done about the number of deaths in golf carts.
I agree wholeheartedly. I hate it when people call cyclists entitled, I believe it’s the golf cart drivers that feel they are entitled. I am a cyclist myself and ride around 100 miles a week on the villages module paths.
I would estimate that out all the many golf carts I meet on my sessions that:
A) 20% come to a complete stop
B) 50% do a rolling stop
C) 30% ignore them completely, drive straight through without looking or slowing.
Also many of these carts are going at speeds way, way above the 20mph , they don’t give a crap about anyone but themselves.

[rustyp]

[QUOTE=cyrillulu;2165272]I agree wholeheartedly. I hate it when people call cyclists entitled, I believe it’s the golf cart drivers that feel they are entitled. I am a cyclist myself and ride around 100 miles a week on the villages module paths.
I would estimate that out all the many golf carts I meet on my sessions that:
A) 20% come to a complete stop
B) 50% do a rolling stop
C) 30% ignore them completely, drive straight through without looking or slowing.
Also many of these carts are going at speeds way, way above the 20mph , they don’t give a crap about anyone but themselves.[/QUOTE

/// My apologies - I missed you gave credit to 20%.

[Davonu]

20+50+30=100% Thus not one cart driver stops at a stop sign. Any wager ?
Assuming these are simply reasonable estimates and not intended to be precise, I would agree with the numbers.

[tophcfa]

Exactly. It’s a matter of practical efficiency.

So ignoring stop signs is kind of like illegal immigration, breaking the law is simply a matter of practical efficiency? But it’s still breaking the law!

[golfing eagles]

Studies have shown that, despite common sense, having bicycles treat stop signs as yield signs actually decreases the chances of bicycles being involved in accidents at intersections. That is why nine states have created laws to allow this. However, I do not believe Florida to be among them.

Bicycling friends of mine do feel that it is safer to bike in a group (a group is more visible than a single biker). To keep the group together sometimes means rolling through stop signs or going across traffic circles in a line. I don't know if I entirely agree with them on that.

Some also believe it is safer to ride on the roads than it is on "multi-modal" or "safety" paths. They claim that cart drivers on the multi-modal paths in The Villages are more prone to hit bikes than do cars. I don't know about that. I guess I'd rather be hit by a 1,000-pound golf cart doing 20 mph than a 3,000-4,000 pound car doing 35 mph (or faster outside of The Bubble).

I don't think bicyclers are inherently entitle snobs any more than I think all car and golf cart drivers in The Villages are distracted, drunk or too old to safely have licenses. I bicycle some, drive my cart around and definitely use my car and try to be careful when doing any of those and to see the point of view of all of those groups.

To my knowledge, the only time a "group" is allowed to go through stop and yield signs to "stay together" is a funeral procession, which they might just get if they continue to blow through as a group in front of an oncoming vehicle.

[golfing eagles]

Unfortunately in the Villages, it is the golf cart drivers who are getting the Darwin awards. They hit signs, the entrance to tunnels, or run into cars. I think we need to be more concerned about golf cart safety in The Villages than worrying about bicycles not stopping at stop signs. Many golf cart riders have been killed in the Villages in the last ten years. Why is no one concerned about this? I have seen golf cart drivers driving very fast. Many carts have been altered to exceed 20 mph. Many golf cart drivers are very reckless. Something needs to be done about the number of deaths in golf carts.

Apples and oranges. Yes, there are some terrible golf cart drivers out there, but that is totally different from INTENTIONALLY VIOLATING THE LAW ON A BICYCLE because it is "inconvenient" to stop or they want to stay together as a group.

[golfing eagles]

Often people worry about "perceived threats" more than real threats. They worry about bicylists going through a stop sign and post on a forum and then they jump into a golf cart. Some have no seat belts and all have no helmets and yet head injuries and deaths occur every year. So which is the real threat?

Analysis of death and disability due to golf cart crashes in The Villages, Florida: 2011-2019 - PubMed (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32812819/)

Sorry, it's still the cyclists intentionally violating the law

[golfing eagles]

In case no one has posted:

FL State Statute
316.2065
6(b) When stopping at a stop sign, persons riding bicycles in groups, after coming to a full stop and obeying all traffic laws, may proceed through the stop sign in a group of 10 or fewer at a time. Motor vehicle operators must allow one such group to travel through the intersection before moving forward.

Statutes & Constitution
:View Statutes
:

Online Sunshine (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0300-0399/0316/Sections/0316.2065.html#:~:text=Where%20bicycle%20lanes%20e xist%2C%20persons,and%20within%20the%20bicycle%20l ane).

The operative phrase----FULL STOP. Last time I saw that happen was when Ramses II got stuck at the Red Sea :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[fdpaq0580]

The operative phrase----FULL STOP. Last time I saw that happen was when Ramses II got stuck at the Red Sea :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

WOW!!! You actually saw that? No wonder you are so wise, having lived so long. You must know lots of stuff!
😯

[golfing eagles]

That is also why there are also so many DOA auto deaths per year as well as DOA golf cart deaths. Another startling statistic is the number of pedestrians that die each year by being hit by motor vehicles. Then again the largest cause of death each year in the US is heart disease. Heart disease is often due to lifestyle choices such as over eating and lack of exercise. Heart disease kills more people than anything else, but no one here talks about this because they like to overeat, drink, and not exercise. If people were really concerned about people being DOA they would pay attention to the most frequent causes of death, but no, they complain about all the little stuff, not the elephant in the room. I guess that’s human nature

Sounds like a great public service announcement

[golfing eagles]

I agree wholeheartedly. I hate it when people call cyclists entitled, I believe it’s the golf cart drivers that feel they are entitled. I am a cyclist myself and ride around 100 miles a week on the villages module paths.
I would estimate that out all the many golf carts I meet on my sessions that:
A) 20% come to a complete stop
B) 50% do a rolling stop
C) 30% ignore them completely, drive straight through without looking or slowing.
Also many of these carts are going at speeds way, way above the 20mph , they don’t give a crap about anyone but themselves.

Interesting post. A cyclist who feels golf cart drivers are entitled. How surprising :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl: As far as the percentages of cyclists for the same scenarios:
0% come to a full stop
2% do a rolling stop, and
98% blow right through.

BTW, I do favor the 10 go through in a group AFTER stopping new law, and believe it or not I support cyclists treating a stop sign as a yield---assuming no one is coming and they are prepared to yield if necessary. My objection here is ONLY to those that blow right through a RB in front of me so that I have to jam on my brakes to protect THEM from their idiotic move. A good rule of thumb, regardless of the vehicles involved, is that anytime I have to brake unexpectedly because of the action of another (backing out driveway, running through stop sign to turn in front and then crawling, turning on red when traffic is coming, etc.), that person is in the WRONG and has violated traffic laws to one extent or another.

[golfing eagles]

WOW!!! You actually saw that? No wonder you are so wise, having lived so long. You must know lots of stuff!
😯

You KNOW I do!!!:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Wilharm]

It seems like quite a few of the bikers want you, the general public, to obey all the laws enacted for the bikers but the bikers get to pick and choose when they obey the laws. They act elite and entitled.

The city of Clear Lake, Iowa will ticket bikers that ignore stop signs and stop lights.

[Happydaz]

The city of Clear Lake, Iowa will ticket bikers that ignore stop signs and stop lights.

The states of Delaware, Idaho, and Colorado would not issue tickets as they have passed laws to allow bicyclists to roll through stop signs. The reason these states cite is that most accidents between bicyclists and vehicles occur at intersections. The reason many cyclists roll through is that they instinctively know that the quicker they can get through an intersection the safer they will be. Stopping and then restarting is slow and dangerous as cars can come upon a bicyclist very quickly and if a biker is going only going 5 mph he will be very vulnerable. It is very understandable for auto drivers to see rolling stops as a dangerous maneuver. It certainly looks that way when 10 bikers are seen shooting through an intersection all at once, but they are doing this for their own safety. The faster they can get through the better. Some reports have shown that rolling stops result in less bike accidents and that is why some states allow it. As a bicyclist and motorcyclist, I am acutely aware that intersections are the most dangerous part of my rides and I make sure to move through them as quickly and safely as I can. (I always come to a complete stop on my motorcycle, but I can accelerate rapidly to move through the dangerous intersections.) Still I can see how that looks to the auto driver. I agree that there are instances where bicyclists make poor decisions and do not yield to an approaching car, but that is something we all try to avoid as it endangers our lives. You are being concerned drivers posting here as you know you don’t want to hit anyone. We bicyclists appreciate that and we are trying to do our best to safely move through the streets and intersections. Maybe if you could understand a little about our situation we could also be more considerate of auto drivers as well. We are after all living in this wonderful place called The Villages.

[golfing eagles]

The states of Delaware, Idaho, and Colorado would not issue tickets as they have passed laws to allow bicyclists to roll through stop signs. The reason these states cite is that most accidents between bicyclists and vehicles occur at intersections. The reason many cyclists roll through is that they instinctively know that the quicker they can get through an intersection the safer they will be. Stopping and then restarting is slow and dangerous as cars can come upon a bicyclist very quickly and if a biker is going only going 5 mph he will be very vulnerable. It is very understandable for auto drivers to see rolling stops as a dangerous maneuver. It certainly looks that way when 10 bikers are seen shooting through an intersection all at once, but they are doing this for their own safety. The faster they can get through the better. Some reports have shown that rolling stops result in less bike accidents and that is why some states allow it. As a bicyclist and motorcyclist, I am acutely aware that intersections are the most dangerous part of my rides and I make sure to move through them as quickly and safely as I can. (I always come to a complete stop on my motorcycle, but I can accelerate rapidly to move through the dangerous intersections.) Still I can see how that looks to the auto driver. I agree that there are instances where bicyclists make poor decisions and do not yield to an approaching car, but that is something we all try to avoid as it endangers our lives. You are being concerned drivers posting here as you know you don’t want to hit anyone. We bicyclists appreciate that and we are trying to do our best to safely move through the streets and intersections. Maybe if you could understand a little about our situation we could also be more considerate of auto drivers as well. We are after all living in this wonderful place called The Villages.

Let's assume that is correct, and let's assume they are doing it for safety and not convenience. (the second assumption is bigger than the first). Even so, THEY DON'T GET TO INVENT THEIR OWN LAWS IN CONTRADICTION TO THE EXISTING TRAFFIC CODE, at least not in Florida.

BTW, if I shoot through an intersection at 70, I probably will spend less time in it and be "safer":1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Interesting post. A cyclist who feels golf cart drivers are entitled. How surprising :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl: As far as the percentages of cyclists for the same scenarios:
0% come to a full stop
2% do a rolling stop, and
98% blow right through.

BTW, I do favor the 10 go through in a group AFTER stopping new law, and believe it or not I support cyclists treating a stop sign as a yield---assuming no one is coming and they are prepared to yield if necessary. My objection here is ONLY to those that blow right through a RB in front of me so that I have to jam on my brakes to protect THEM from their idiotic move. A good rule of thumb, regardless of the vehicles involved, is that anytime I have to brake unexpectedly because of the action of another (backing out driveway, running through stop sign to turn in front and then crawling, turning on red when traffic is coming, etc.), that person is in the WRONG and has violated traffic laws to one extent or another.

Here's my personal experience as a bike-rider:

If I'm trying to go uphill, and there's no traffic on the cross street, I'll go as fast as I possibly can right through that intersection.

If I'm going downhill, I'll either stop completely, or roll through. It's around 50-50 - depends on how much I'm enjoying the ability to coast down hill that moment.

If I'm on even pavement I'll usually come to a complete stop - I'd say around 80% of the time.

If there's traffic on the cross road, OR someone coming from the other side with their turn signal on to take a left, I come to a complete stop - 100% of the time. If someone tries to give me the right of way I will get off my bicycle, and not get back on until they've passed.
This is especially true if there are people behind the guy trying to give away his right of way, or someone on the other side of the intersection wanting to take a left, while other people are moving in from my left or right.

Lastly - if I'm currently going downhill, but immediately after the stop sign is an uphill segment of road, I will come to a stop ONLY if there are cars approaching from my right or left. Otherwise I will speed through as fast as I can to make sure I have enough momentum to make it up that hill without having to get off the bike and walk.

I violate the law. I admit it. I'm also not a hypocrite who thinks badly of people who follow the same protocol in their cars or golf carts. If there's no traffic in any direction then it shouldn't matter if you, the only person at that intersection, or even near that intersection, chooses to cross that intersection.

I personally think all right turns should be yields, not stops. But - it isn't, I acknowledge that it isn't, I'm willing to take my chances.

[rustyp]

Here's my personal experience as a bike-rider:

If I'm trying to go uphill, and there's no traffic on the cross street, I'll go as fast as I possibly can right through that intersection.

If I'm going downhill, I'll either stop completely, or roll through. It's around 50-50 - depends on how much I'm enjoying the ability to coast down hill that moment.

If I'm on even pavement I'll usually come to a complete stop - I'd say around 80% of the time.

If there's traffic on the cross road, OR someone coming from the other side with their turn signal on to take a left, I come to a complete stop - 100% of the time. If someone tries to give me the right of way I will get off my bicycle, and not get back on until they've passed.
This is especially true if there are people behind the guy trying to give away his right of way, or someone on the other side of the intersection wanting to take a left, while other people are moving in from my left or right.

Lastly - if I'm currently going downhill, but immediately after the stop sign is an uphill segment of road, I will come to a stop ONLY if there are cars approaching from my right or left. Otherwise I will speed through as fast as I can to make sure I have enough momentum to make it up that hill without having to get off the bike and walk.

I violate the law. I admit it. I'm also not a hypocrite who thinks badly of people who follow the same protocol in their cars or golf carts. If there's no traffic in any direction then it shouldn't matter if you, the only person at that intersection, or even near that intersection, chooses to cross that intersection.

I personally think all right turns should be yields, not stops. But - it isn't, I acknowledge that it isn't, I'm willing to take my chances.

That's one whale of a checklist. I got a C- on my last memory test. Barely passed the hearing test. I have my name on the front of my golf cart for two reasons:
1. So I can find it after I parked it
2. Make sure it is mine - those universal keys will get you every time
I think I might be too old to handle the to do list at a stop sign on a bike. I could just come to a complete stop. Much less to remember. The added benefit of coming to a full stop is I can stand up and pull the spandex out of my caboose.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

That's one whale of a checklist. I got a C- on my last memory test. Barely passed the hearing test. I have my name on the front of my golf cart for two reasons:
1. So I can find it after I parked it
2. Make sure it is mine - those universal keys will get you every time
I think I might be too old to handle the to do list at a stop sign on a bike. I could just come to a complete stop. Much less to remember. The added benefit of coming to a full stop is I can stand up and pull the spandex out of my caboose.

It's not a checklist. I just gave a moment's thought to my usual habits when I ride my bicycle. I've been riding a bicycle a lot longer than I've been driving a golf cart, and I can tell you what my routine is for that too.

Also - wear actual bicycle shorts if the spandex is getting stuck. They're padded and supposedly they solve that problem (I wear normal shorts or jeans).

[tophcfa]

I violate the law. I admit it. I'm also not a hypocrite who thinks badly of people who follow the same protocol in their cars or golf carts. If there's no traffic in any direction then it shouldn't matter if you, the only person at that intersection, or even near that intersection, chooses to cross that intersection.

Agree, can’t remember how many times at night I have taken a left turn with a red light at the intersection of San Marino and Morse in the golf cart. When there is nobody there, I am not going to sit there for two minutes staring into an abyss waiting for the light to turn. I won’t do it in a car because you never know if there is a camera at the intersection that could snap a picture of the license plate.

[Love2Swim]

Realistically, there are any number of laws that people break on a routine basis. I may cross the street in the middle of the block, instead of going way out of my way to cross at a crosswalk. If I'm in my golf cart, I will slow down for all stop signs, but if its obvious no one is coming from either direction, I will go through. How many people have gotten to a red light in the middle of the night, and it takes forever to change. There is no one in sight. The purpose of the light is to control traffic. Common sense tells you to go through the red light instead of waiting another couple minutes for it to change. Anyone here drink when they are underage - raise your hand. How about smoking pot? Raise your hand. Did something on the internet while you were in the workplace, that wasn't work related? Theft of services - Raise your hand. Playing poker for money at home? May be prohibited based on your state of residence. Speeding? .... you get the idea.

[NoMoSno]

Common sense tells you to go through the red light instead of waiting another couple minutes for it to change.
Common sense tells me to wait and not run the red, and chance a ticket, points, and a rise in insurance cost...but you do you...

[coffeebean]

"Brake pedal"??? On a bike?

Not on a bike......in an automobile is what I was referring to.

[DAVES]

What is the law regarding cyclists and stop signs ? Today at Watertower circle two very large groups entered the circle from Lester Drive which has a stop sign at full speed - no stop. I mean no stop. Both lead bikers did not hesitate and went into the circle full bore and the groups followed. It was like they were entering a roundabout except there is a stop sign. There was a car coming around the circle and both car and cyclists met at the intersection. It appeared the leader made the decision not to stop by staying to the extreme right. The road in the circle is about two lanes wide but not marked (striped) as such.

There is no shortage of stupid inconsiderate people. Who is right who is wrong,
people will post as always, OPINIONS based on their bias. Taking a bicycle into a round a bout is a bit NUTS. Taking a group of bicycle riders into a round about is perhaps MIXED NUTS.

As far as bikes and stop signs. All should realize that a bicycle is human powered. If does not start from a stop as a car or a golf cart does. Most drivers, of cars or golf carts, if, honest, admit they do at best a rolling stop at a stop sign. When, on my bike I do the same.

Far as LAW, how many drivers know they are supposed to be three feet away from the side of a bicycle. Clearly not all drivers are good drivers. Just the other day I had a lady not more than three inches from my bike. Was she unaware or did she not care. Truth SHE WAS WRONG.

[DAVES]

The city of Clear Lake, Iowa will ticket bikers that ignore stop signs and stop lights.

I expect someone told police to do this. No one wants to get a ticket. Most police are not out to get you. Posters mostly state when I break the law it is justified but they should stop others from. Rules, laws, it is unlikely that all of us have not broken some rule to day. Car stuff you can be ticketed for and probably will not be. Tinted windows, a chip in the glass, worn wiper blades, worn brakes, headlights-improperly aimed, etc etc etc
Ticketing a bicycle for running a stop sign. You do not need to have a driver's license to drive a bike. You do not need to have identification of any kind. Officer, my name is BOB SMITH, my address is 355 Main street.
Most police use common sense.

[DAVES]

The states of Delaware, Idaho, and Colorado would not issue tickets as they have passed laws to allow bicyclists to roll through stop signs. The reason these states cite is that most accidents between bicyclists and vehicles occur at intersections. The reason many cyclists roll through is that they instinctively know that the quicker they can get through an intersection the safer they will be. Stopping and then restarting is slow and dangerous as cars can come upon a bicyclist very quickly and if a biker is going only going 5 mph he will be very vulnerable. It is very understandable for auto drivers to see rolling stops as a dangerous maneuver. It certainly looks that way when 10 bikers are seen shooting through an intersection all at once, but they are doing this for their own safety. The faster they can get through the better. Some reports have shown that rolling stops result in less bike accidents and that is why some states allow it. As a bicyclist and motorcyclist, I am acutely aware that intersections are the most dangerous part of my rides and I make sure to move through them as quickly and safely as I can. (I always come to a complete stop on my motorcycle, but I can accelerate rapidly to move through the dangerous intersections.) Still I can see how that looks to the auto driver. I agree that there are instances where bicyclists make poor decisions and do not yield to an approaching car, but that is something we all try to avoid as it endangers our lives. You are being concerned drivers posting here as you know you don’t want to hit anyone. We bicyclists appreciate that and we are trying to do our best to safely move through the streets and intersections. Maybe if you could understand a little about our situation we could also be more considerate of auto drivers as well. We are after all living in this wonderful place called The Villages.

My dad taught me to drive. Dad passed away years ago but I can still hear what he said, "Expect them to do the stupidest possible thing because that is exactly what they will do."
Same thought perhaps, more polite. You control your vehicle. You do not know the mood of drivers around you, how bright they are, their health etc etc etc.
THE BEST ACCIDENT IS THE ONE THAT DOES NOT HAPPEN.

[Dotneko]

Well, they were responding to a post about a former LEO citing "bicycle riders" for not stopping at stop signs, so...

I understood they were comparing the difficulty all operators of vehicles - cars, carts, bicycles have in starting and stopping. Sorry you didnt understand it.

[JMintzer]

I understood they were comparing the difficulty all operators of vehicles - cars, carts, bicycles have in starting and stopping. Sorry you didnt understand it.

Operators of cars and golf carts have difficulty in starting and stopping?

[Garywt]

If riding they have the same laws/rules as cars, if walking the bike they are pedestrians.

[Davonu]

If riding they have the same laws/rules as cars, if walking the bike they are pedestrians.
In Florida yes.

Quite a few states have passed laws that allow bicyclists to treat stop signs as yield signs.

[Dotneko]

Operators of cars and golf carts have difficulty in starting and stopping?

Nope. Neither do cyclists unless they are morons. They want the bike, learn to ride it properly.

[golfing eagles]

i drive my golf and stop if a bike dont i dont

///

[golfing eagles]

bickes stay in the road

///

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

There is no shortage of stupid inconsiderate people. Who is right who is wrong,
people will post as always, OPINIONS based on their bias. Taking a bicycle into a round a bout is a bit NUTS. Taking a group of bicycle riders into a round about is perhaps MIXED NUTS.

As far as bikes and stop signs. All should realize that a bicycle is human powered. If does not start from a stop as a car or a golf cart does. Most drivers, of cars or golf carts, if, honest, admit they do at best a rolling stop at a stop sign. When, on my bike I do the same.

Far as LAW, how many drivers know they are supposed to be three feet away from the side of a bicycle. Clearly not all drivers are good drivers. Just the other day I had a lady not more than three inches from my bike. Was she unaware or did she not care. Truth SHE WAS WRONG.

There is no other way to get to the country club. The country club is in the center of the roundabout. If you want to play golf there, or use the pool there, or get a meal or a drink there, then you /must/ enter the roundabout.

In addition - if you live near the country club and want to visit someone across the way - you can either ride up the couple of blocks to get to that other street - or you can ride a couple of MILES around the back way to get to the same spot.

[Laker14]

I had a moment yesterday that was partly my fault and partly a vehicle's fault. We avoided a collision by each being a bit cautious as each of us broke traffic laws.

I was coming off the MMP at a gate (I was coming from the southbound Buena Vista MMP, turning right onto Bailey Trail, heading westbound). Now, as a cart I have a "stop" sign (is it a real stop sign? I mean, the MMP is not really a thoroughfare under the purview and jurisdiction of Florida State Law as I understand it, but local convention is for carts here to give ROW to cars), there was a vehicle approaching a lowered gate arm.

I slowed way down, but did not stop, but I knew the vehicle had to stop to wait for the gate to open. So I rolled slowly through my stop sign, and made the right turn into the cart lane on Bailey.

Now I ask you to consider, while I did not come to a complete stop, is this not how most of us would handle this?

Now here is where it gets interesting. The vehicle did not wait for the gate arm to come up, nor did the vehicle stop or slow down at the gate. The vehicle continued at normal speed AROUND the gate and headed for the right cart lane on Bailey, same lane as I was headed for.

The other vehicle was a crisply moving bike. I treated it like an automobile thinking it would either wait for the gate arm, or at least slow down for me. The rider treated the situation as if the gate arm did not exist, nor the stop sign pointing at him.

We looked at each other. I slowed a bit, and let him go around me, he got in front of me on the cart/bike lane, and immediately I passed him. I couldn't tell if he was glaring at me, or just looking at me carefully. I was startled at the fact that he never even slowed down at the gate.

I am not making this story up as a theoretical situation. This actually happened on my way home from Tierra del Sol yesterday afternoon. The more I think about it, the more I wonder who would have been at fault had he T-boned my cart.

[golfing eagles]

I had a moment yesterday that was partly my fault and partly a vehicle's fault. We avoided a collision by each being a bit cautious as each of us broke traffic laws.

I was coming off the MMP at a gate (I was coming from the southbound Buena Vista MMP, turning right onto Bailey Trail, heading westbound). Now, as a cart I have a "stop" sign (is it a real stop sign? I mean, the MMP is not really a thoroughfare under the purview and jurisdiction of Florida State Law as I understand it, but local convention is for carts here to give ROW to cars), there was a vehicle approaching a lowered gate arm.

I slowed way down, but did not stop, but I knew the vehicle had to stop to wait for the gate to open. So I rolled slowly through my stop sign, and made the right turn into the cart lane on Bailey.

Now I ask you to consider, while I did not come to a complete stop, is this not how most of us would handle this?

Now here is where it gets interesting. The vehicle did not wait for the gate arm to come up, nor did the vehicle stop or slow down at the gate. The vehicle continued at normal speed AROUND the gate and headed for the right cart lane on Bailey, same lane as I was headed for.

The other vehicle was a crisply moving bike. I treated it like an automobile thinking it would either wait for the gate arm, or at least slow down for me. The rider treated the situation as if the gate arm did not exist, nor the stop sign pointing at him.

We looked at each other. I slowed a bit, and let him go around me, he got in front of me on the cart/bike lane, and immediately I passed him. I couldn't tell if he was glaring at me, or just looking at me carefully. I was startled at the fact that he never even slowed down at the gate.

I am not making this story up as a theoretical situation. This actually happened on my way home from Tierra del Sol yesterday afternoon. The more I think about it, the more I wonder who would have been at fault had he T-boned my cart.

First of all, the important thing is that no one got hurt.

Secondly, it is probably wise to assume that 100% of cyclists will blow through any stop and yield signs since they don't think traffic laws apply to them because they are inconvenient.

Thirdly, my amateur opinion as to fault under the law----contributory negligence.

[Laker14]

First of all, the important thing is that no one got hurt.

Secondly, it is probably wise to assume that 100% of cyclists will blow through any stop and yield signs since they don't think traffic laws apply to them because they are inconvenient.

Thirdly, my amateur opinion as to fault under the law----contributory negligence.

I agree with your assessment. on all three points. I was not surprised he went around the gate, and certainly not surprised he didn't stop. I was surprised by the speed at which he did it.

IMO our contributory negligence lead to the possibility of a collision, and our "contributory caution" avoided it, and in reality, we weren't really close to colliding. But if either one of us had been a tad less careful about the other, it could have been ugly.

[Davonu]

…it is probably wise to assume that 100% of cyclists will blow through any stop and yield signs since they don't think traffic laws apply to them because they are inconvenient...
Oooohhh. Lost all credibility with that statement…especially the “100%” part.

[golfing eagles]

oooohhh. Lost all credibility with that statement…especially the “100%” part.

ok, -----99.8%

[VApeople]

The more I think about it, the more I wonder who would have been at fault had he T-boned my cart.

You would have been at fault because you drove thru a clearly marked stop sign.

The biker did not have a stop sign so he did not have to stop. He had the right-of-way.

[Bill14564]

You would have been at fault because you drove thru a clearly marked stop sign.

The biker did not have a stop sign so he did not have to stop. He had the right-of-way.

??? As described, the bicyclist *did* have a stop sign, in the form of a gate blocking the road, that he ignored by riding around it.

There wouldn't be any question of fault if a car had simply broken through the gate without slowing down so why is it any different with a bicycle?

[Davonu]

??? As described, the bicyclist *did* have a stop sign, in the form of a gate blocking the road, that he ignored by riding around it.

There wouldn't be any question of fault if a car had simply broken through the gate without slowing down so why is it any different with a bicycle?
I’m not defending the bicyclist, but a gate DOES NOT equal a stop sign.

[Bill14564]

I’m not defending the bicyclist, but a gate DOES NOT equal a stop sign.

Right. A stop sign is an indicator for what the vehicle operator is supposed to do. A gate, on the other hand, is a physical barrier enforcing a behavior. One can simply ignore a sign but it takes a conscious action to either bust through or drive around a gate.

"I didn't see the sign" is hard to believe but "I didn't notice the gate" is impossible.

[VApeople]

??? As described, the bicyclist *did* have a stop sign


Did the cycler have a sign with a STOP on it?

If not, then the cycler did not have a stop sign. QED, as we used to say in class.

[Bill14564]

Did the cycler have a sign with a STOP on it?

If not, then the cycler did not have a stop sign. QED, as we used to say in class.

Are you asking if the cyclist faced a red, octangular sign with the letters STOP in white or are you asking if there was a clear indication that traffic, including cyclists, should stop?

I don't know about the former (I'm not standing there to look) but I am quite sure a out the latter.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

So - the gates at Boone in the historic section have stop signs going in, and out. That's in addition to the gates themselves. Any bicyclist driving around those gates would be violating the law by doing so, if the gates were down at the time they drove around them.

Even when the gate is up (because the attendant has to use the bathroom, or there's bad weather and they remove the gates entirely) - those stop signs exist to instruct people to stop.

I don't know about the gate at Bailey but I'd be surprised if there wasn't similar signage.

If there is no similar signage, then there's no reason for the bicyclist to stop - from a legal standpoint. A barrier preventing cars from getting through - is not going to prevent a bicycle or pedestrian or roller skater or skateboarder or Segway user from getting through. The barrier exists to stop cars, afterall.

In addition, some of the sensors won't trigger if you're just on a bicycle or walking past. The gate at the public road won't come up if you're leaving the area, and there is no red button to /leave/ the neighborhood. Only to enter it.

[rustyp]

So - the gates at Boone in the historic section have stop signs going in, and out. That's in addition to the gates themselves. Any bicyclist driving around those gates would be violating the law by doing so, if the gates were down at the time they drove around them.

Even when the gate is up (because the attendant has to use the bathroom, or there's bad weather and they remove the gates entirely) - those stop signs exist to instruct people to stop.

I don't know about the gate at Bailey but I'd be surprised if there wasn't similar signage.

If there is no similar signage, then there's no reason for the bicyclist to stop - from a legal standpoint. A barrier preventing cars from getting through - is not going to prevent a bicycle or pedestrian or roller skater or skateboarder or Segway user from getting through. The barrier exists to stop cars, afterall.

In addition, some of the sensors won't trigger if you're just on a bicycle or walking past. The gate at the public road won't come up if you're leaving the area, and there is no red button to /leave/ the neighborhood. Only to enter it.

The "IN" gate at Boone does not have a stop sign making that intersection very dangerous. It renders that intersection a three way stop. The gate house sits back from Paradise drive allowing vehicles to get up a little head of speed before entering. The three stopped vehicles assume the entering vehicle is going to stop and BINGO crash. I have witnessed many accidents there over the years. I asked one time about putting a stop sign there and the rationale for not to was it would back up incoming traffic out onto Rt 441.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

[COLOR="Red"]

The "IN" gate at Boone does not have a stop sign making that intersection very dangerous. It renders that intersection a three way stop. The gate house sits back from Paradise drive allowing vehicles to get up a little head of speed before entering. The three stopped vehicles assume the entering vehicle is going to stop and BINGO crash. I have witnessed many accidents there over the years. I asked one time about putting a stop sign there and the rationale for not to was it would back up incoming traffic out onto Rt 441.

Yes, it has a stop sign right in front of the guard shack. You have to stop before you pass the gate. Even if the gate is up (due to bathroom break or inclement weather or broken) you are still required to stop before you get to that spot, because of the stop sign outside the shack around 6 feet before the hood of your car gets to the shack door. The stop sign is not at the intersection. It's before the gate.

Once you're past the gate, you don't have to stop. The intersection itself is a 3-way stop, not a 4-way stop. The three stopped vehicles should not assume that the person entering from 441 is going to stop at the intersection, because they ALREADY stopped at the guardhouse - where the stop sign for them is located.

[rustyp]

[COLOR="Red"]

The "IN" gate at Boone does not have a stop sign making that intersection very dangerous. It renders that intersection a three way stop. The gate house sits back from Paradise drive allowing vehicles to get up a little head of speed before entering. The three stopped vehicles assume the entering vehicle is going to stop and BINGO crash. I have witnessed many accidents there over the years. I asked one time about putting a stop sign there and the rationale for not to was it would back up incoming traffic out onto Rt 441.

And in conclusion in case anyone missed the point Boone and Paradise is a three way stop. IMHO is one of the most dangerous intersections in The Villages regardless of vehicle type. Where do you think the most dangerous intersection in The Villages is ? Rules - roundabouts excluded !

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

And in conclusion in case anyone missed the point Boone and Paradise is a three way stop. IMHO is one of the most dangerous intersections in The Villages regardless of vehicle type. Where do you think the most dangerous intersection in The Villages is ? Rules - roundabouts excluded !

I don't see accidents there that often. In fact I've only seen, personally, one involving a golf cart coming down Paradise and a car. The golf cart driver didn't stop at their own stop sign, and rolled through, while the car was coming in from 441 and taking a left onto Paradise.

So - that had nothing to do with how many or few stop signs there were. It had to do with someone choosing not to stop at the stop sign they actually had.

It'd probably be a great idea if they added a sign attached to (but below) the stop signs at Boone: "Warning - traffic incoming from the gate does not stop." I don't think it'd prevent people from choosing not to proceed with caution, but it'd at least provide some culpability to the people who make those choices and get hit as a result.