Interesting article

[Koapaka]

Whatever could be the problem???


US life expectancy continues to fall, erasing 25 years of health gains (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2022/12/22/us-life-expectancy-continues-fall-erasing-25-years-health-gains/10937418002/)

[Keefelane66]

When you lose over 1 million people to Covid disease during the Pandemic and recent reports of up to 400 daily from Covid it’s expected.

[ThirdOfFive]

When you lose over 1 million people to Covid disease during the Pandemic and recent reports of up to 400 daily from Covid it’s expected.
That horse has been beaten beyond recognition.

[Stu from NYC]

That horse has been beaten beyond recognition.

How much of the drop is due to covid related issues? Would think most or all

[Two Bills]

Taking TV as a microcosm of over 55's in US.
Obesity.
Overeating
Lack of exercise.
Processed food consumption.
Sugary drinks and booze.
Its a wonder average life expectancy is as high as it is.

[JMintzer]

Taking TV as a microcosm of over 55's in US.
Obesity.
Overeating
Lack of exercise.
Processed food consumption.
Sugary drinks and booze.
Its a wonder average life expectancy is as high as it is.

That beg's the question... Why did it rise over the last 2-3 decades?

[retiredguy123]

There are too many variables to draw any definitive conclusions.

[Koapaka]

I am amazed no one even considered the obvious given the age group that most of these deaths are occurring in. Drugs pouring across our borders that are killing more people per year than the Vietnam war did. In a SINGLE year, yet no one seems interested in addressing or even acknowledging this issue.
Drug overdoses killed more Americans last year than the Vietnam War - CBS News (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/opioids-drug-overdose-killed-more-americans-last-year-than-the-vietnam-war/)

[Hape2Bhr]

I am amazed no one even considered the obvious given the age group that most of these deaths are occurring in. Drugs pouring across our borders that are killing more people per year than the Vietnam war did. In a SINGLE year, yet no one seems interested in addressing or even acknowledging this issue.
Drug overdoses killed more Americans last year than the Vietnam War - CBS News (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/opioids-drug-overdose-killed-more-americans-last-year-than-the-vietnam-war/)

Well, there are many interested; unfortunately it then becomes off limits here.

[Two Bills]

That beg's the question... Why did it rise over the last 2-3 decades?

Maybe the older generations were fitter, leaner, and knew how to cook proper food.
Could just be a blip because of Covid.
Whatever way you look at it, the medical profession has been under the cosh for last couple of years., and many minor medical issues have been missed, and are now serious issues.
For two years you were lucky to even see a doctor in person.

[retiredguy123]

Maybe the older generations were fitter, leaner, and knew how to cook proper food.
Could just be a blip because of Covid.
Whatever way you look at it, the medical profession has been under the cosh for last couple of years., and many minor medical issues have been missed, and are now serious issues.
For two years you were lucky to even see a doctor in person.
Even now, medical offices are depending on nurses and physician assistants to see patients instead of a medical doctor. Apparently, insurance companies are willing to reimburse non-doctor exams at the same rate. Usually, when I am asked to see a nurse or PA, I refuse.

[Stu from NYC]

There are too many variables to draw any definitive conclusions.

Do we need facts to come to a conclusion around here? Since when?

[Stu from NYC]

Even now, medical offices are depending on nurses and physician assistants to see patients instead of a medical doctor. Apparently, insurance companies are willing to reimburse non-doctor exams at the same rate. Usually, when I am asked to see a nurse or PA, I refuse.

We have found for basic stuff a PA or nurse practitioner can do just as good as job diagnosing us as the Dr. And we get to see them faster.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I am amazed no one even considered the obvious given the age group that most of these deaths are occurring in. Drugs pouring across our borders that are killing more people per year than the Vietnam war did. In a SINGLE year, yet no one seems interested in addressing or even acknowledging this issue.
Drug overdoses killed more Americans last year than the Vietnam War - CBS News (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/opioids-drug-overdose-killed-more-americans-last-year-than-the-vietnam-war/)

China, Mexico, and India are the three primary sources for one specific drug that causes lethal overdoses: fentanyl. As of my last trip to the google map, only one of those three countries shares a border with the USA. Thankfully, the DEA has seized more of this drug this past year, than it has in the last decade that the drug has been a problem.

That tells me the DEA is doing a good job. If it weren't, they wouldn't be seizing it. It'd be killing even MORE people.

Eliminate the demand, and the supply will dwindle. It's Americans who are overdosing - because it's Americans who insist on taking the stuff.

It's not even the only opioid killing Americans. It's just the one with the most press recently. Other opioids are legally and appropriately prescribed to patients for pain management and recovery from surgery. Just because some people are happy to "bite the bullet" and take the pain, doesn't mean everyone can, or should, do the same. When I have my hip surgery (hopefully this coming year) you better believe I'll be asking for a few days' worth of Vikoden. Unapologetically.

Everyone is addressing and acknowledging this issue, it's a HUGE issue, and complex, and there is no singular solution to it. There is a singular cause: People want these drugs. For whatever reason, they want it. Legally or illegally, they want it. To manage/treat pain or to get high, they want it. That's the cause. Until/unless you can come up with an alternative to treating/managing pain, people will continue wanting it for legitimate purposes. And as long as it's available legitimately, there will be people who get hooked. When the doctor stops prescribing it, they will seek it through illegal channels.

But - you can't trust Big Pharma, supposedly. So good luck finding an alternative to severe pain caused by cancer or major surgery recovery, or severe injury, or 3rd degree burns that take months to heal. Good luck telling those folks they can no longer minimize their agony because Johnny got his fix from China. Because that just makes SO much sense.

[spinner1001]

Whatever could be the problem???


US life expectancy continues to fall, erasing 25 years of health gains (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2022/12/22/us-life-expectancy-continues-fall-erasing-25-years-health-gains/10937418002/)

A scientific paper from the US CDC published August 2022 (link below) goes into more detail about attributed causes for the recent decline in life expectancy. It reports the single largest factor for the 2020-2021 decline is Covid and other causes were also contributing factors.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/vsrr/vsrr023.pdf

I am attaching two screenshots from the paper plotting US life expectancy over time and the attributed factors affecting the recent decline — both negative and positive factors.

[coconutmama]

China, Mexico, and India are the three primary sources for one specific drug that causes lethal overdoses: fentanyl. As of my last trip to the google map, only one of those three countries shares a border with the USA. Thankfully, the DEA has seized more of this drug this past year, than it has in the last decade that the drug has been a problem.

That tells me the DEA is doing a good job. If it weren't, they wouldn't be seizing it. It'd be killing even MORE people.

Eliminate the demand, and the supply will dwindle. It's Americans who are overdosing - because it's Americans who insist on taking the stuff.

It's not even the only opioid killing Americans. It's just the one with the most press recently. Other opioids are legally and appropriately prescribed to patients for pain management and recovery from surgery. Just because some people are happy to "bite the bullet" and take the pain, doesn't mean everyone can, or should, do the same. When I have my hip surgery (hopefully this coming year) you better believe I'll be asking for a few days' worth of Vikoden. Unapologetically.

Everyone is addressing and acknowledging this issue, it's a HUGE issue, and complex, and there is no singular solution to it. There is a singular cause: People want these drugs. For whatever reason, they want it. Legally or illegally, they want it. To manage/treat pain or to get high, they want it. That's the cause. Until/unless you can come up with an alternative to treating/managing pain, people will continue wanting it for legitimate purposes. And as long as it's available legitimately, there will be people who get hooked. When the doctor stops prescribing it, they will seek it through illegal channels.

But - you can't trust Big Pharma, supposedly. So good luck finding an alternative to severe pain caused by cancer or major surgery recovery, or severe injury, or 3rd degree burns that take months to heal. Good luck telling those folks they can no longer minimize their agony because Johnny got his fix from China. Because that just makes SO much sense.

Excellent post. Thanks for taking the time to write it. Some people fail to see the whole picture.

[Bay Kid]

A scientific paper from the US CDC published August 2022 (link below) goes into more detail about attributed causes for the recent decline in life expectancy. It reports the single largest factor for the 2020-2021 decline is Covid and other causes were also contributing factors.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/vsrr/vsrr023.pdf

I am attaching two screenshots from the paper plotting US life expectancy over time and the attributed factors affecting the recent decline — both negative and positive factors.

Could be all the covid shoots with unknown results.

[G.R.I.T.S.]

Whatever could be the problem???


US life expectancy continues to fall, erasing 25 years of health gains (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2022/12/22/us-life-expectancy-continues-fall-erasing-25-years-health-gains/10937418002/)

From what I’ve read regarding the vaccination of young people, I’d venture a guess that the shots are a contributing factor.

[Ski Bum]

Well, there are many interested; unfortunately it then becomes off limits here.

When an older person dies, it doesn't affect the longevity stats much. When tens of thousands of young men are dying from drugs every year, the stat tanks.

[MandoMan]

Whatever could be the problem???


US life expectancy continues to fall, erasing 25 years of health gains (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2022/12/22/us-life-expectancy-continues-fall-erasing-25-years-health-gains/10937418002/)

The CDC says it is due to extra people dying of Covid who would otherwise have died a few years later and the many people who have died of drug overdoses. If you don’t use illegal drugs, you don’t have to worry about the latter. It’s not things like obesity and more heart disease. Also, it’s not a very big drop.

[Susan1717]

I’m going to agree with the comments attributing much to the processed fake chemical foods and sugar consumption adding in all the million increasing fentanyl deaths and extra diseases and more covid coming across the border. Over 5 million and they’re estimating another 6 million in 2023. That will put a huge damper on hospital overload and our health care system.

[Marine1974]

Drug overdoses, Covid , murders etc etc .

[blueash]

You can attribute whatever you want in the absence of the ability to look at data and you would be certain, and certainly wrong. There has been no change in the obesity or the diet or the exercise of Americans in the last two years. You cannot blame a sudden decrease in life expectancy on this completely unchanged lifestyle.

Those above who blame the shots are completely wrong. Every single data point in every single country has produced the same finding. Shots save lives. Period. States and counties with the highest rate of acceptance of shots consistently had the lowest increased death rates during the pandemic. States and counties with the lowest rate of vaccination had higher excess death.

This is found over and over. Recently here:
COVID-19 and Excess All-Cause Mortality in the US and 20 Comparison Countries, June 2021-March 2022 | Public Health | JAMA | JAMA Network (https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2798990)
older study here:
County-level vaccination coverage and rates of COVID-19 cases and deaths in the United States: An ecological analysis - The Lancet Regional Health – Americas (https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanam/article/PIIS2667-193X(22)00008-4/fulltext)

Just stop with the stupid ignorant claim that it is the shots causing excess deaths. You are wrong, dangerously wrong.

The CDC here and similar organizations in other countries has ongoing data which accurately predicts about how many people in each age/gender/race etc will die in a normal year. They can then look at the real deaths and see if the expected pattern held, or fewer deaths or more.

This is not the same measure as life expectancy but it is related. A healthy senior citizen dying of covid is an excess life lost, but does not move the average life expectancy much. You have to loose a lot of older people to see a big drop in life expectancy. But a million will do it.
A 20 yo dying of a drug overdose is also an excess life lost but has a much greater impact on overall life expectancy [years of potential life lost]. But recently it is Covid deaths which have had the major impact on life expectancy. Data for 2022 is not yet available.

The CDC regularly updates on these problems. You can subscribe to MMWR for free and get the weekly report in your email.

"The declines in life expectancy (https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/nchs_press_releases/2022/20220831.htm) since 2019 are largely driven by the pandemic. COVID-19 deaths contributed to nearly three-fourths or 74% of the decline from 2019 to 2020 and 50% of the decline from 2020 to 2021. An estimated 16% of the decline in life expectancy from 2020 to 2021 can be attributed to increases in deaths from accidents/unintentional injuries. Drug overdose deaths account for nearly half of all unintentional injury deaths."

[maistocars]

When you lose over 1 million people to Covid disease during the Pandemic and recent reports of up to 400 daily from Covid it’s expected.
Does that include those who died of gunshot wounds that were classified as CV and everything else? Stop. Just stop and suggest you may want to change your viewing channels. I would be more worried about "excess deaths" and "sudden deaths" in healthy individuals resulting from you know what. My word...
.

[JMintzer]

China, Mexico, and India are the three primary sources for one specific drug that causes lethal overdoses: fentanyl. As of my last trip to the google map, only one of those three countries shares a border with the USA. Thankfully, the DEA has seized more of this drug this past year, than it has in the last decade that the drug has been a problem.

That tells me the DEA is doing a good job. If it weren't, they wouldn't be seizing it. It'd be killing even MORE people.

Or, they are now smuggling in such massive quantities that a "blind squirrel would be able to seize more of the drugs...

And it's customs and border patrol who are finding the majority of the drugs being "smuggled across our shared border"...

Eliminate the demand, and the supply will dwindle. It's Americans who are overdosing - because it's Americans who insist on taking the stuff.

Easier said than done. When you eliminate the jobs of a large segment o the population, people turn to drugs... A story old as time...

It's not even the only opioid killing Americans. It's just the one with the most press recently. Other opioids are legally and appropriately prescribed to patients for pain management and recovery from surgery. Just because some people are happy to "bite the bullet" and take the pain, doesn't mean everyone can, or should, do the same. When I have my hip surgery (hopefully this coming year) you better believe I'll be asking for a few days' worth of Vikoden. Unapologetically.

Everyone is addressing and acknowledging this issue, it's a HUGE issue, and complex, and there is no singular solution to it. There is a singular cause: People want these drugs. For whatever reason, they want it. Legally or illegally, they want it. To manage/treat pain or to get high, they want it. That's the cause. Until/unless you can come up with an alternative to treating/managing pain, people will continue wanting it for legitimate purposes. And as long as it's available legitimately, there will be people who get hooked. When the doctor stops prescribing it, they will seek it through illegal channels.

But - you can't trust Big Pharma, supposedly. So good luck finding an alternative to severe pain caused by cancer or major surgery recovery, or severe injury, or 3rd degree burns that take months to heal. Good luck telling those folks they can no longer minimize their agony because Johnny got his fix from China. Because that just makes SO much sense.

Straw man argument... It's not the dozen Vicodin you get post op that's killing people

[jimjamuser]

Whatever could be the problem???


US life expectancy continues to fall, erasing 25 years of health gains (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2022/12/22/us-life-expectancy-continues-fall-erasing-25-years-health-gains/10937418002/)
Someone may have already said this. If so I apologize in advance........Many US citizens and maybe other citizens of the world are dying of fentanyl overdoses - mainly those between the ages 25 and 45. There are probably other issues, but I believe that fentanyl is the main reason. And the early Delta Covid killed about 1 million. And STILL continues to kill although at a smaller rate due to the strange phenomenon of the anti-vaccers.

[JMintzer]

Someone may have already said this. If so I apologize in advance........Many US citizens and maybe other citizens of the world are dying of fentanyl overdoses - mainly those between the ages 25 and 45. There are probably other issues, but I believe that fentanyl is the main reason. And the early Delta Covid killed about 1 million. And STILL continues to kill although at a smaller rate due to the strange phenomenon of the anti-vaccers.

Except it is the vaxx'ed people who are now dying at a greater rate...

[jimjamuser]

That horse has been beaten beyond recognition.
Then, they must be CURRENTLY beating a lot of horses in China!

[jimjamuser]

Taking TV as a microcosm of over 55's in US.
Obesity.
Overeating
Lack of exercise.
Processed food consumption.
Sugary drinks and booze.
Its a wonder average life expectancy is as high as it is.
Those factors are truly problems associated with US citizens since after WW2 when we left the farm environment for the city industrial life. The link in the original post talks about decreasing lifespan after 1996 and how the increase is getting worse in recent years. So, there is a NEW factor or factors that have happened recently and started happening after 1996. That is WHY I suggested fentanyl and Covid as the likely causes.

[jimjamuser]

I am amazed no one even considered the obvious given the age group that most of these deaths are occurring in. Drugs pouring across our borders that are killing more people per year than the Vietnam war did. In a SINGLE year, yet no one seems interested in addressing or even acknowledging this issue.
Drug overdoses killed more Americans last year than the Vietnam War - CBS News (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/opioids-drug-overdose-killed-more-americans-last-year-than-the-vietnam-war/)
I thought of that right away and furthermore........the fentanyl scourge is taking out the most productive age group in the US. And I see it as a conspiracy plot hatched out by both Russia and China either separately or in concert. It is as effective as a bloodless coup or invasion and very cost-effective to our enemies. It is also possible ( I am saying possible, not absolutely) that the Pandemic was a Plan-demic and Russian trolls used propaganda to create an atmosphere of anti-vaccine attitudes. Even using religion against the US and the shots. Their objective is a divide and conquer (inexpensively). On that score, they are succeeding!

If I were in charge of the world, I would give life imprisonment to fentanyl dealers and also move the US economy quickly away from the Chinese economy by using A.I. and robotics to make the things that China makes for us now. Yes, the transition would be tough, but sometimes the easy way out is NOT the best way.

[jimjamuser]

I am amazed no one even considered the obvious given the age group that most of these deaths are occurring in. Drugs pouring across our borders that are killing more people per year than the Vietnam war did. In a SINGLE year, yet no one seems interested in addressing or even acknowledging this issue.
Drug overdoses killed more Americans last year than the Vietnam War - CBS News (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/opioids-drug-overdose-killed-more-americans-last-year-than-the-vietnam-war/)
Many important issues get little media coverage, such as Global Warming. And please spare me, "It's very cold out now".........I know.

[jimjamuser]

Well, there are many interested; unfortunately it then becomes off limits here.
I would HOPE not, because since 1996 there have been alternating Presidents of BOTH parties.

[jimjamuser]

Maybe the older generations were fitter, leaner, and knew how to cook proper food.
Could just be a blip because of Covid.
Whatever way you look at it, the medical profession has been under the cosh for last couple of years., and many minor medical issues have been missed, and are now serious issues.
For two years you were lucky to even see a doctor in person.
Which brings up the points that maybe there should be more Medical Schools and maybe the US insurance industry should try to stay out of medical practice and Doctors should be paid more than the average Wall Street trader. Fixing those problems could put more social concentration on the loss of capable, productive middle-aged US citizens

[jimjamuser]

China, Mexico, and India are the three primary sources for one specific drug that causes lethal overdoses: fentanyl. As of my last trip to the google map, only one of those three countries shares a border with the USA. Thankfully, the DEA has seized more of this drug this past year, than it has in the last decade that the drug has been a problem.

That tells me the DEA is doing a good job. If it weren't, they wouldn't be seizing it. It'd be killing even MORE people.

Eliminate the demand, and the supply will dwindle. It's Americans who are overdosing - because it's Americans who insist on taking the stuff.

It's not even the only opioid killing Americans. It's just the one with the most press recently. Other opioids are legally and appropriately prescribed to patients for pain management and recovery from surgery. Just because some people are happy to "bite the bullet" and take the pain, doesn't mean everyone can, or should, do the same. When I have my hip surgery (hopefully this coming year) you better believe I'll be asking for a few days' worth of Vikoden. Unapologetically.

Everyone is addressing and acknowledging this issue, it's a HUGE issue, and complex, and there is no singular solution to it. There is a singular cause: People want these drugs. For whatever reason, they want it. Legally or illegally, they want it. To manage/treat pain or to get high, they want it. That's the cause. Until/unless you can come up with an alternative to treating/managing pain, people will continue wanting it for legitimate purposes. And as long as it's available legitimately, there will be people who get hooked. When the doctor stops prescribing it, they will seek it through illegal channels.

But - you can't trust Big Pharma, supposedly. So good luck finding an alternative to severe pain caused by cancer or major surgery recovery, or severe injury, or 3rd degree burns that take months to heal. Good luck telling those folks they can no longer minimize their agony because Johnny got his fix from China. Because that just makes SO much sense.
Everything said in this post is uniquely valuable. The history of pain pills and their over-prescriptions has been detailed in a book or movie, I believe. And they have indicted the pharmacy company (or companies) that PUSHED the pills. I believe that one owner had to declare bankruptcy. There was false advertising involved as to the pain pills NOT being addictive. Then, when the Doctors went back to normal (or even under) prescribing - the underworld through China and other countries stepped in to supply the painkillers (in this case fentanyl, the pain and mankiller)

This is an example of supply and demand. After the demand for painkillers became high, it stayed high as doctors (learning of the danger) started SUPPLYING less to patients. Lower SUPPLY led to DEMAND for a NEW drug that bypassed the medical profession. The black market satisfied that DEMAND with non-prescription Sudafed, then oxycodone, then finally the man-killing fentanyl. (note - I am sure that I left out some details)

[jimjamuser]

I’m going to agree with the comments attributing much to the processed fake chemical foods and sugar consumption adding in all the million increasing fentanyl deaths and extra diseases and more covid coming across the border. Over 5 million and they’re estimating another 6 million in 2023. That will put a huge damper on hospital overload and our health care system.
That will be like adding an accelerant to a fire. A fire of continuing and increased fentanyl and Covid deaths.

[jimjamuser]

You can attribute whatever you want in the absence of the ability to look at data and you would be certain, and certainly wrong. There has been no change in the obesity or the diet or the exercise of Americans in the last two years. You cannot blame a sudden decrease in life expectancy on this completely unchanged lifestyle.

Those above who blame the shots are completely wrong. Every single data point in every single country has produced the same finding. Shots save lives. Period. States and counties with the highest rate of acceptance of shots consistently had the lowest increased death rates during the pandemic. States and counties with the lowest rate of vaccination had higher excess death.

This is found over and over. Recently here:
COVID-19 and Excess All-Cause Mortality in the US and 20 Comparison Countries, June 2021-March 2022 | Public Health | JAMA | JAMA Network (https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2798990)
older study here:
County-level vaccination coverage and rates of COVID-19 cases and deaths in the United States: An ecological analysis - The Lancet Regional Health – Americas (https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanam/article/PIIS2667-193X(22)00008-4/fulltext)

Just stop with the stupid ignorant claim that it is the shots causing excess deaths. You are wrong, dangerously wrong.

The CDC here and similar organizations in other countries has ongoing data which accurately predicts about how many people in each age/gender/race etc will die in a normal year. They can then look at the real deaths and see if the expected pattern held, or fewer deaths or more.

This is not the same measure as life expectancy but it is related. A healthy senior citizen dying of covid is an excess life lost, but does not move the average life expectancy much. You have to loose a lot of older people to see a big drop in life expectancy. But a million will do it.
A 20 yo dying of a drug overdose is also an excess life lost but has a much greater impact on overall life expectancy [years of potential life lost]. But recently it is Covid deaths which have had the major impact on life expectancy. Data for 2022 is not yet available.

The CDC regularly updates on these problems. You can subscribe to MMWR for free and get the weekly report in your email.

"The declines in life expectancy (https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/nchs_press_releases/2022/20220831.htm) since 2019 are largely driven by the pandemic. COVID-19 deaths contributed to nearly three-fourths or 74% of the decline from 2019 to 2020 and 50% of the decline from 2020 to 2021. An estimated 16% of the decline in life expectancy from 2020 to 2021 can be attributed to increases in deaths from accidents/unintentional injuries. Drug overdose deaths account for nearly half of all unintentional injury deaths."
A serious accurate "drop the mike" post.

[jimjamuser]

Except it is the vaxx'ed people who are now dying at a greater rate...
Today the rate of Covid deaths is VASTLY lower than BEFORE the vaccines. And those dying today (and same as earlier) are the UN-vaxxed people that refused to get the vaccines. And the MOST deaths are in states with the lowest vaccine acceptance.
........This is also PROVEN by the fact that the countries with the MOST vaccine acceptance have the least covid cases and deaths.

[NoMoSno]

........This is also PROVEN by the fact that the countries with the MOST vaccine acceptance have the least covid cases and deaths.
You must not be aware of what is going on in China.
EVERYONE has been forced to vaccinate yet 250 million contracted covid just in December.
Leaked notes from Chinese health officials estimate 250 million Covid-19 infections in December: reports | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/23/china/china-covid-infections-250-million-intl-hnk/index.html)

[tvbound]

You must not be aware of what is going on in China.
EVERYONE has been forced to vaccinate yet 250 million contracted covid just in December.
Leaked notes from Chinese health officials estimate 250 million Covid-19 infections in December: reports | CNN (/2022/12/23/china/china-covid-infections-250-million-intl-hnk/index.html)

Umm, not quite "everyone."


Why vaccine hesitancy persists in China : Goats and Soda : NPR (/sections/goatsandsoda/2022/12/09/1140830315/why-vaccine-hesitancy-persists-in-china-and-what-theyre-doing-about-it)


The least vaccinated are the elderly

"The problem of under-vaccination is most acute among the elderly. The government announced a little over a week ago that around 30% of people aged 60 and up — or roughly 80 million people — were not vaccinated and boosted as of Nov. 11. Among those 80 or older, the ratio was closer to 60%."

[NoMoSno]

Why vaccine hesitancy persists in China : Goats and Soda : NPR (https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2022/12/09/1140830315/why-vaccine-hesitancy-persists-in-china-and-what-theyre-doing-about-it)


The least vaccinated are the elderly

"The problem of under-vaccination is most acute among the elderly. The government announced a little over a week ago that around 30% of people aged 60 and up — or roughly 80 million people — were not vaccinated and boosted as of Nov. 11. Among those 80 or older, the ratio was closer to 60%."
So 80 million are not vaccinated (out of a population of 1.4 billion). Yet 250 million have contracted covid in the last 20 days.

[blueash]

Does that include those who died of gunshot wounds that were classified as CV and everything else? Stop. Just stop and suggest you may want to change your viewing channels. I would be more worried about "excess deaths" and "sudden deaths" in healthy individuals resulting from you know what. My word...
.

Evidence please. List about how many gunshot deaths you believe were misclassified as Covid deaths? You might need to rethink, or maybe just THINK, about whether you are getting good data and learning how to interpret that data. See above posts with real data. Do you believe every country in the world is misclassifying Covid deaths in an attempt to make some bizarre political point?

[blueash]

"Except it is the vaxx'ed people who are now dying at a greater rate."

A greater rate than what? Are they dying at a greater rate than the unvaccinated. No they are not. Math is hard. Understanding statistics is beyond the grasp of too many people.

If 95% of people wear seat belts and seat belts save 1/2 the lives of those who would otherwise die in crashes... consider the following.
There are 1000 crashes which would be fatal with no seat belt. Using our assumption, 950 of those crashes had seat belt wearers. As we save 1/2 the lives, we have 475 belt wearers who die [1/2 of 950] and we have only 50 non belt wearers who die. Proof in your world that people who wear seat belts "are dying at a greater rate"

That is what you are doing.

[tvbound]

So 80 million are not vaccinated (out of a population of 1.4 billion). Yet 250 million have contracted covid in the last 20 days.

In your own link, it says the 250M is purely an estimate and therefore unverifiable.

[NoMoSno]

So nearly the entire population of the US, which is just over 300 million, have caught Covid in the last 3 weeks. Wildly wrong and irresponsible statement.
Well, the information came from CNN. So probably fake news.

Looks like NPR is also being irresponsible:
China facing largest COVID surge of the pandemic: possibly 800 million cases : Goats and Soda : NPR (https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2022/12/15/1143002538/china-appears-to-be-facing-what-could-be-the-world-s-largest-coronavirus-outbrea)

and USnews:
Access Denied (https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2022-12-23/report-chinas-covid-19-infections-surge-reach-37-million-in-single-day)

covid surge in china - Google Search (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=covid+surge+in+china#ip=1)

[Caymus]

You must not be aware of what is going on in China.
EVERYONE has been forced to vaccinate yet 250 million contracted covid just in December.
Leaked notes from Chinese health officials estimate 250 million Covid-19 infections in December: reports | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/23/china/china-covid-infections-250-million-intl-hnk/index.html)

The main problems were that the Chicoms used their own inferior vaccines (backward engineered BioNTech vaccine) plus the lockdowns prevented any chance at natural immunity. They are now behind most other countries.

[blueash]

You must not be aware of what is going on in China.
EVERYONE has been forced to vaccinate yet 250 million contracted covid just in December.
Leaked notes from Chinese health officials estimate 250 million Covid-19 infections in December: reports | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/23/china/china-covid-infections-250-million-intl-hnk/index.html)

China has not forced EVERYONE to vaccinate. And the vaccine it is using is far less effective than those we are using. Sumter County has a higher vaccine uptake than China.

[jimjamuser]

So 80 million are not vaccinated (out of a population of 1.4 billion). Yet 250 million have contracted covid in the last 20 days.
Their vaccine is terrible.

[Dlpdo]

I am amazed no one even considered the obvious given the age group that most of these deaths are occurring in. Drugs pouring across our borders that are killing more people per year than the Vietnam war did. In a SINGLE year, yet no one seems interested in addressing or even acknowledging this issue.
Drug overdoses killed more Americans last year than the Vietnam War - CBS News (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/opioids-drug-overdose-killed-more-americans-last-year-than-the-vietnam-war/)
Nobody is considering it because it has nothing to do with the numbers. The number of Americans that died per year in the war wouldn’t even cause a blip in the statistics

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

You must not be aware of what is going on in China.
EVERYONE has been forced to vaccinate yet 250 million contracted covid just in December.
Leaked notes from Chinese health officials estimate 250 million Covid-19 infections in December: reports | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/23/china/china-covid-infections-250-million-intl-hnk/index.html)

There was a singular vaccine mandate in Beijing that lasted two days. It was so unpopular they cancelled it.

But the country was under a very strict lockdown, which allowed it to immobilize the virus, preventing it from spreading. They recently lifted that lockdown - and all those UNvaccinated people, who had no opportunity to become immune to the virus because of the lockdown - ended up with COVID.

[JMintzer]

Today the rate of Covid deaths is VASTLY lower than BEFORE the vaccines. And those dying today (and same as earlier) are the UN-vaxxed people that refused to get the vaccines. And the MOST deaths are in states with the lowest vaccine acceptance.
........This is also PROVEN by the fact that the countries with the MOST vaccine acceptance have the least covid cases and deaths.

Wrong...

COVID No Longer 'Pandemic of the Unvaccinated' (https://www.webmd.com/covid/news/20221127/more-vaccinated-people-dying-of-covid-as-fewer-get-booster-shots)

[JMintzer]

Evidence please. List about how many gunshot deaths you believe were misclassified as Covid deaths? You might need to rethink, or maybe just THINK, about whether you are getting good data and learning how to interpret that data. See above posts with real data. Do you believe every country in the world is misclassifying Covid deaths in an attempt to make some bizarre political point?

The sec Health in Illinois stated that ANY death where there was a positive covid test was considered a covid death. The CDC came out and said the same...

CDC coding error led to overcount of 72,000 Covid deaths | Coronavirus | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/24/cdc-coding-error-overcount-covid-deaths)

[JMintzer]

"Except it is the vaxx'ed people who are now dying at a greater rate."

A greater rate than what? Are they dying at a greater rate than the unvaccinated. No they are not. Math is hard. Understanding statistics is beyond the grasp of too many people.

If 95% of people wear seat belts and seat belts save 1/2 the lives of those who would otherwise die in crashes... consider the following.
There are 1000 crashes which would be fatal with no seat belt. Using our assumption, 950 of those crashes had seat belt wearers. As we save 1/2 the lives, we have 475 belt wearers who die [1/2 of 950] and we have only 50 non belt wearers who die. Proof in your world that people who wear seat belts "are dying at a greater rate"

That is what you are doing.

Nope. read the link I provided...

[tuccillo]

Yes, you are spot on. As you approach 100% vaccination rate then you will approach 100% of those who die from COVID have been vaccinated. In 2022, we achieved a high enough vaccination rate (nearly 90%) that a majority of those who died were actually vaccinated. It is the sort of statistic that doesn't really relay any sort of useful information. This reminds of the efficacy rates associated with the COVID vaccines when they first came out. I believe the statistic was misunderstood, and misused, by many people.

"Except it is the vaxx'ed people who are now dying at a greater rate."

A greater rate than what? Are they dying at a greater rate than the unvaccinated. No they are not. Math is hard. Understanding statistics is beyond the grasp of too many people.

If 95% of people wear seat belts and seat belts save 1/2 the lives of those who would otherwise die in crashes... consider the following.
There are 1000 crashes which would be fatal with no seat belt. Using our assumption, 950 of those crashes had seat belt wearers. As we save 1/2 the lives, we have 475 belt wearers who die [1/2 of 950] and we have only 50 non belt wearers who die. Proof in your world that people who wear seat belts "are dying at a greater rate"

That is what you are doing.

[jimjamuser]

Nobody is considering it because it has nothing to do with the numbers. The number of Americans that died per year in the war wouldn’t even cause a blip in the statistics
Fentanyl overdoses account for about 40% of the decrease in population since 1996. Most of the rest is from Covid. That is what the thread is about. It is important.

[jimjamuser]

Wrong...

COVID No Longer 'Pandemic of the Unvaccinated' (https://www.webmd.com/covid/news/20221127/more-vaccinated-people-dying-of-covid-as-fewer-get-booster-shots)
It is easy to say that I am "wrong" and that might be gratification in itself. But, I can offer an analysis that will show that I am RIGHT. Also, an interested person that wanted to decide who was correct could just refer to Blue Ash's excellent prior post, which will provide the answer to that question and ACTUALLY to ANY other relevant question.

The 1st paragraph in that link can be deceptive because.......one must remember and keep in mind that Covid DEATHS are directly proportional to AGE. That is older people are more LIKELY to die from Covid. Another fact is that NO vaccination shot has EVER been 100% effective in preventing disease or death from that disease.
.........Fact.......Older people over 60 read that they were more susceptible to dying of Covid - young people hardly at all, so the older people GOT the vaccine and booster (at least the smart ones)
......OK......need to follow closely now........The link's VERY 1st sentence says "for the 1st time, the majority of US people dying from Covid have been vaccinated. I am sure that is TRUE...........because the problem is that the link is NOT comparing EQUAL AGE populations. Obviously, older people are dying more than the young general population, which are composed of young people that are RARELY killed by Covid.

Older people die more from ANY disease than younger people. so, ALL that the link's 1st sentence really says is that EVEN WITH THE VACCINATIONS, older people are dying more FROM Covid than younger people WITHOUT the vaccine ARE DYING from Covid - because younger people have some type of natural immunity that older people do NOT have.

The link's last paragraph is a good summary. "if all states achieved the same vaccine LEVEL as Vermont, there would be a greater relative protection in the US from severe Covid disease." That last paragraph, basically, gives people the valuable advice to GET their shots and boosters and DISREGARD the anti-vaccine propaganda !

[jimjamuser]

Yes, you are spot on. As you approach 100% vaccination rate then you will approach 100% of those who die from COVID have been vaccinated. In 2022, we achieved a high enough vaccination rate (nearly 90%) that a majority of those who died were actually vaccinated. It is the sort of statistic that doesn't really relay any sort of useful information. This reminds of the efficacy rates associated with the COVID vaccines when they first came out. I believe the statistic was misunderstood, and misused, by many people.
I agree !!!!!!!

[tuccillo]

I’m glad.

I agree !!!!!!!

[JMintzer]

It is easy to say that I am "wrong" and that might be gratification in itself. But, I can offer an analysis that will show that I am RIGHT. Also, an interested person that wanted to decide who was correct could just refer to Blue Ash's excellent prior post, which will provide the answer to that question and ACTUALLY to ANY other relevant question.

The 1st paragraph in that link can be deceptive because.......one must remember and keep in mind that Covid DEATHS are directly proportional to AGE. That is older people are more LIKELY to die from Covid. Another fact is that NO vaccination shot has EVER been 100% effective in preventing disease or death from that disease.
.........Fact.......Older people over 60 read that they were more susceptible to dying of Covid - young people hardly at all, so the older people GOT the vaccine and booster (at least the smart ones)
......OK......need to follow closely now........The link's VERY 1st sentence says "for the 1st time, the majority of US people dying from Covid have been vaccinated. I am sure that is TRUE...........because the problem is that the link is NOT comparing EQUAL AGE populations. Obviously, older people are dying more than the young general population, which are composed of young people that are RARELY killed by Covid.

Older people die more from ANY disease than younger people. so, ALL that the link's 1st sentence really says is that EVEN WITH THE VACCINATIONS, older people are dying more FROM Covid than younger people WITHOUT the vaccine ARE DYING from Covid - because younger people have some type of natural immunity that older people do NOT have.

The link's last paragraph is a good summary. "if all states achieved the same vaccine LEVEL as Vermont, there would be a greater relative protection in the US from severe Covid disease." That last paragraph, basically, gives people the valuable advice to GET their shots and boosters and DISREGARD the anti-vaccine propaganda !

https://media.tenor.com/XVLeGey352YAAAAd/cherry-picking-picky.gif

[chrissy2231]

Whatever could be the problem???


US life expectancy continues to fall, erasing 25 years of health gains (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2022/12/22/us-life-expectancy-continues-fall-erasing-25-years-health-gains/10937418002/)
OBESITY! It's rampant and being encouraged by showing immense women in fashion ads.

[melpetezrinski]

Except it is the vaxx'ed people who are now dying at a greater rate...


OK, I'll bite.

89% of those dying are over 65.
94% of those over 65 have received 1 shot.

SMH

[JMintzer]

OK, I'll bite.

89% of those dying are over 65.
94% of those over 65 have received 1 shot.

SMH

Your first statement is not true. The correct number is 48%

Your fist statement leaves out a lot of info. Such as the fact that 84% of those age 25-49 have also been vaxxed...

But thanks for playing!

Share of total COVID-19 deaths by age U.S. 2022 | Statista (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1254488/us-share-of-total-covid-deaths-by-age-group/)

Archive: COVID-19 Vaccination and Case Trends by Age Group, United States | Data | Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (https://data.cdc.gov/Vaccinations/Archive-COVID-19-Vaccination-and-Case-Trends-by-Ag/gxj9-t96f)

[jimjamuser]

double post - sorry.

[jimjamuser]

https://media.tenor.com/XVLeGey352YAAAAd/cherry-picking-picky.gif
Most 6th graders that I have known just LOVE a good graphic art display in lieu of the tediousness of a serious discussion of the subject at hand.

[jimjamuser]

Most 6th graders that I have known just LOVE a good graphic art display in lieu of the tediousness of a serious discussion of the subject at hand.

[jimjamuser]

OBESITY! It's rampant and being encouraged by showing immense women in fashion ads.
That would represent less than 1/10 0f 1% of the possible reasons for the population decline since 1996.

[JMintzer]

Most 6th graders that I have known just LOVE a good graphic art display in lieu of the tediousness of a serious discussion of the subject at hand.

That's why I post them. So YOU can enjoy them...

[JMintzer]

That would represent less than 1/10 0f 1% of the possible reasons for the population decline since 1996.

I'm sure you've done the TEDIOUS research needed to come up with that figure...

[melpetezrinski]

Your first statement is not true. The correct number is 48%

Your fist statement leaves out a lot of info. Such as the fact that 84% of those age 25-49 have also been vaxxed...

But thanks for playing!

Share of total COVID-19 deaths by age U.S. 2022 | Statista (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1254488/us-share-of-total-covid-deaths-by-age-group/)

Archive: COVID-19 Vaccination and Case Trends by Age Group, United States | Data | Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (https://data.cdc.gov/Vaccinations/Archive-COVID-19-Vaccination-and-Case-Trends-by-Ag/gxj9-t96f)

I replied to your statement of "vaxx'ed people are NOW dying at a greater rate". So, this is a specific point in time, NOW. However, you tried to back up your opinion by referencing TO DATE information. How is that relevant? You need to take data that encompasses more recent information. Can we at least agree with that variable? Here is an example:

Deaths Among Older Adults Due to COVID-19 Jumped During the Summer of 2022 Before Falling Somewhat in September | KFF (https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/deaths-among-older-adults-due-to-covid-19-jumped-during-the-summer-of-2022-before-falling-somewhat-in-september/)

[Whitley]

There is an increase in sudden deaths from heart attacks and strokes among vaccinated young people infected with what the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) refers to as “mild” cases of COVID-19. Interesting.

[Whitley]

China has not forced EVERYONE to vaccinate. And the vaccine it is using is far less effective than those we are using. Sumter County has a higher vaccine uptake than China.

China's "vaccine" does not prevent getting or spreading covid either. It "May" make your symptoms less severe . (It may not, but let's go with it may).

[Whitley]

China has not forced EVERYONE to vaccinate. And the vaccine it is using is far less effective than those we are using. Sumter County has a higher vaccine uptake than China.

Do the chinese know this. From the LA Times:

At the end of August, police in China’s Hunan province came to the home of Zhang Jianping. They questioned him about why he had not been vaccinated against COVID-19, and took him by car to a hospital.

Zhang said he was very clear that he did not want to be immunized. “I am not informed. I do not consent,” he says he told the authorities. But they held down his arms and legs and forcibly injected him.

[Whitley]

Their vaccine is terrible.

Couldn't they find three rats to test it on?

[Whitley]

China has not forced EVERYONE to vaccinate. And the vaccine it is using is far less effective than those we are using. Sumter County has a higher vaccine uptake than China.

People stand in line at a coronavirus testing site in Beijing on July 2.
Mark Schiefelbein/AP
Hong Kong
CNN
—
Beijing on July 2nd announced a Covid-19 vaccine mandate for residents to enter public venues, becoming the first city in mainland China to do so as it attempts to contain a highly infectious Omicron subvariant.

From July 11, people will need to show proof of vaccination to enter a wide range of public places in the Chinese capital, including cinemas, libraries, museums, gyms, stadiums and training centers, a city health official told a news briefing Wednesday.

[Whitley]

Dr Campbell has been a proponent of vaccines in the beginning to someone who now questions the transparency and details being released to the medical professionals and people of the U.S.. As more data emerges that question, or in some cases directly oppose what we have been told, he can no longer encourage all age groups and health conditions get the vaccine. This week, a major news outlet released a story stating the Non-Vaccinated may be more likely to be bad drivers and in serious accidents. In the body they do state there is no causation shown that non vaccinated drivers cause accidents. There are many variables other than vaccine status. Even if we assume it is only due to vaccine status, results did not meet stat sig.. In spite of this, how long till Don Lemon or Howard Stern start calling for Insurance companies to use vaccine status when determining if they should issue a policy?

[JMintzer]

There is an increase in sudden deaths from heart attacks and strokes among vaccinated young people infected with what the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) refers to as “mild” cases of COVID-19. Interesting.

It was also happening to young people who were vaccinated and NOT infected...

Even MORE interesting...

[JMintzer]

I replied to your statement of "vaxx'ed people are NOW dying at a greater rate". So, this is a specific point in time, NOW. However, you tried to back up your opinion by referencing TO DATE information. How is that relevant? You need to take data that encompasses more recent information. Can we at least agree with that variable? Here is an example:

Deaths Among Older Adults Due to COVID-19 Jumped During the Summer of 2022 Before Falling Somewhat in September | KFF (https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/deaths-among-older-adults-due-to-covid-19-jumped-during-the-summer-of-2022-before-falling-somewhat-in-september/)

"To Date" info is the most current info they have...

What do you want me to use? Only yesterday's data?

[melpetezrinski]

"To Date" info is the most current info they have...

What do you want me to use? Only yesterday's data?

No not “only yesterday’s data” How about, oh I don’t know, August 2022? Maybe because that is the timeframe in the article that YOU posted (#50). It said, "people who had been vaccinated or boosted made up 58% of COVID-19 deaths in August." IN AUGUST. ONE MONTH! I can’t believe you thought this meant “to date” or “as of”, which means from the start of the pandemic until now. So, now you can go back to my post #60 and understand the percentages better. Just don’t look at your reply, which was post 61. You said 48% of the people who are dying are over 65. Where did you get that #? Was it from your first link? Did you just total 65-74 years – 22.4% and 75-84 years – 26% to get 48%. Did you forget to expand the chart to include 85+ years, which is another 27%? Also, not to reiterate the obvious, but this chart is AS OF, so start of pandemic and NOT just August 2022.

To quote yourself,
“thanks for playing”

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Do the chinese know this. From the LA Times:

At the end of August, police in China’s Hunan province came to the home of Zhang Jianping. They questioned him about why he had not been vaccinated against COVID-19, and took him by car to a hospital.

Zhang said he was very clear that he did not want to be immunized. “I am not informed. I do not consent,” he says he told the authorities. But they held down his arms and legs and forcibly injected him.

That is an op-ed based on something the author of the story saw posted on social media. There was no fact-checking done - and none needed because it was an opinion piece. You can tell it was an opinion piece because right at the top of the story is the word "Opinion."

If this had actually happened, then yes it would've been horrible. But there is no evidence that it actually happened. There isn't even any reference to WHICH social media venue the author found their information from.

In this op-ed, the author goes on to say that the government of China promoted an 80% vaccination rate. That is true, from various sources easily found with a simple google search. But equally true is the Beijing mandate only lasted two days and was eliminated basically due to lack of interest (it's more complicated than that, but that's the tl;dr version).

All references to Jhang Jianping's "experience" are sourced with this singular op-ed piece.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

People stand in line at a coronavirus testing site in Beijing on July 2.
Mark Schiefelbein/AP
Hong Kong
CNN
—
Beijing on July 2nd announced a Covid-19 vaccine mandate for residents to enter public venues, becoming the first city in mainland China to do so as it attempts to contain a highly infectious Omicron subvariant.

From July 11, people will need to show proof of vaccination to enter a wide range of public places in the Chinese capital, including cinemas, libraries, museums, gyms, stadiums and training centers, a city health official told a news briefing Wednesday.

That was a single city that tried a mandate, and it failed two days later. People who chose not to vaccinate weren't allowed in to those cinemas, libraries, and other public places in Beijing, but after that second day of failure, they were not forced to vaccinate, OR to stay home. They just couldn't go to those specific places if they made that decision for themselves.

[Caymus]

That was a single city that tried a mandate, and it failed two days later. People who chose not to vaccinate weren't allowed in to those cinemas, libraries, and other public places in Beijing, but after that second day of failure, they were not forced to vaccinate, OR to stay home. They just couldn't go to those specific places if they made that decision for themselves.

??? Where are you getting your information? Thousands of articles like this one exist.

In Shanghai, residential gates are locked and millions are running low on food | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/11/asia/china-shanghai-lockdown-culver-intl-hnk-dst/index.html)

[JMintzer]

No not “only yesterday’s data” How about, oh I don’t know, August 2022? Maybe because that is the timeframe in the article that YOU posted (#50). It said, "people who had been vaccinated or boosted made up 58% of COVID-19 deaths in August." IN AUGUST. ONE MONTH! I can’t believe you thought this meant “to date” or “as of”, which means from the start of the pandemic until now. So, now you can go back to my post #60 and understand the percentages better. Just don’t look at your reply, which was post 61. You said 48% of the people who are dying are over 65. Where did you get that #? Was it from your first link? Did you just total 65-74 years – 22.4% and 75-84 years – 26% to get 48%. Did you forget to expand the chart to include 85+ years, which is another 27%? Also, not to reiterate the obvious, but this chart is AS OF, so start of pandemic and NOT just August 2022.

To quote yourself,
“thanks for playing”

Funny, you never mentioned the post I responded to...

You know, the one that said that:

"89% of those dying are over 65.
94% of those over 65 have received 1 shot."

Both of those statements are incorrect, even using your "August 2022" info

But I'll give you the extra 27% (which STILL doesn't add up to 89%), since it didn't show up when I first looked at the link...

[Whitley]

When an older person dies, it doesn't affect the longevity stats much. When tens of thousands of young men are dying from drugs every year, the stat tanks.

Aren't we able to get data that shows increase/decrease deaths from heart disease and lung issues?

[blueash]

Wrong...

COVID No Longer 'Pandemic of the Unvaccinated' (https://www.webmd.com/covid/news/20221127/more-vaccinated-people-dying-of-covid-as-fewer-get-booster-shots)

Do you even read the links you provide? I pointed out, I thought clearly, that the reason for the change in total deaths moving toward a higher percentage of those deaths being in those vaccinated was because a high percentage of all Americans are vaccinated. And further that the risk of death remains much higher in those who have refused vaccines. Risk of death is how many die in a matched set of say 1000 vaccinated vs 1000 unvaccinated.

You continue to suggest that the vaccines do not work and the data, including the link you posted say exactly the opposite of what you are presenting to the readers of this forum. You are spreading misinformation and putting lives at risk.

From the WebMD link:
Research continues to show that people who are vaccinated or boosted have a lower risk of death. The rise in deaths among the vaccinated is the result of three factors, Cox said. They are:

A large majority of people in the U.S. have been vaccinated (267 million people in the U.S., the CDC says).
People who are at the greatest risk of dying from COVID-19 are more likely to be vaccinated and boosted, such as the elderly.
Vaccines lose their effectiveness over time; the virus changes to avoid vaccines; and people need to choose to get boosters to continue to be protected.
The case for the effectiveness of vaccines and boosters versus skipping the shots remains strong.

From the Guardian link which you used to attempt to show that deaths are being attributed to Covid when it was a trivial comorbidity... That article said nothing about that issue, rather it reported a coding error where if a box was checked reporting a date of death the software was ignoring another box that said the death was not related to Covid. This software error was caught and fixed and the numbers were revised. By the way, the error originally occurred at the state or county level when the forms were filled in. The form first asked was the death related to covid. Then the date of death was to be filled in only if YES to the first question. If someone put a date of death when the cause was not Covid the initial software guessed that the yes/no had been answered wrong. They then removed all the deaths when the "caused by Covid" was NO but a date was entered.
This in fact may have resulted in an undercount as certainly some of the forms had the error of checking the wrong yes/no box. Thus when all is said and done, the CDC undercounted Covid deaths in these mismatched forms.

I closely read the CDC reports and can promise you that the CDC never said what you claim it said that "ANY death where there was a positive covid test was considered a covid death"

If you actually care about how the CDC wanted death certificates to be filled in to allow for collection of accurate data you can read the webinar done in April 2020 when Covid was just beginning. It is very clear they only want Covid listed if it is the cause of death.
https://emergency.cdc.gov/coca/ppt/2020/04-16-20-transcript.pdf

While it is possible that some individual funeral homes or coroners did not follow CDC guidelines, that works both ways. Including there being individuals who would not list Covid on forms.
County coroner in Missouri says he omits Covid-19 from some death certificates (https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/county-coroner-missouri-says-he-omits-covid-19-some-death-n1275929)
or from this story: COVID-19 deaths obscured by inaccurate death certificates (https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/nation/2021/12/22/covid-deaths-obscured-inaccurate-death-certificates/8899157002/)
In Cape Girardeau County, Missouri, coroner Wavis Jordan said his office “doesn’t do COVID deaths.” Jordan does not investigate deaths himself. He requires families to provide proof of a positive coronavirus test before including it on a death certificate.

In 2021, he hasn’t pronounced a single person dead from COVID-19 in the 80,000-person county.

[melpetezrinski]

Funny, you never mentioned the post I responded to...

You know, the one that said that:

"89% of those dying are over 65.
94% of those over 65 have received 1 shot."

Both of those statements are incorrect, even using your "August 2022" info

But I'll give you the extra 27% (which STILL doesn't add up to 89%), since it didn't show up when I first looked at the link...


I guess you missed post #68 with the link. Of course it "doesn't add up to 89%" because your chart that "didn't show up" (LMAO), is ........wait for it........... AS OF a date. I am done here since you refuse to acknowledge or worse, can't comprehend the difference between "IN" August and "AS OF" August.

[JMintzer]

Do you even read the links you provide? I pointed out, I thought clearly, that the reason for the change in total deaths moving toward a higher percentage of those deaths being in those vaccinated was because a high percentage of all Americans are vaccinated. And further that the risk of death remains much higher in those who have refused vaccines. Risk of death is how many die in a matched set of say 1000 vaccinated vs 1000 unvaccinated.

You continue to suggest that the vaccines do not work and the data, including the link you posted say exactly the opposite of what you are presenting to the readers of this forum. You are spreading misinformation and putting lives at risk.

From the WebMD link:


From the Guardian link which you used to attempt to show that deaths are being attributed to Covid when it was a trivial comorbidity... That article said nothing about that issue, rather it reported a coding error where if a box was checked reporting a date of death the software was ignoring another box that said the death was not related to Covid. This software error was caught and fixed and the numbers were revised. By the way, the error originally occurred at the state or county level when the forms were filled in. The form first asked was the death related to covid. Then the date of death was to be filled in only if YES to the first question. If someone put a date of death when the cause was not Covid the initial software guessed that the yes/no had been answered wrong. They then removed all the deaths when the "caused by Covid" was NO but a date was entered.
This in fact may have resulted in an undercount as certainly some of the forms had the error of checking the wrong yes/no box. Thus when all is said and done, the CDC undercounted Covid deaths in these mismatched forms.

I closely read the CDC reports and can promise you that the CDC never said what you claim it said that "ANY death where there was a positive covid test was considered a covid death"

If you actually care about how the CDC wanted death certificates to be filled in to allow for collection of accurate data you can read the webinar done in April 2020 when Covid was just beginning. It is very clear they only want Covid listed if it is the cause of death.
https://emergency.cdc.gov/coca/ppt/2020/04-16-20-transcript.pdf

While it is possible that some individual funeral homes or coroners did not follow CDC guidelines, that works both ways. Including there being individuals who would not list Covid on forms.
County coroner in Missouri says he omits Covid-19 from some death certificates (https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/county-coroner-missouri-says-he-omits-covid-19-some-death-n1275929)
or from this story: COVID-19 deaths obscured by inaccurate death certificates (https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/nation/2021/12/22/covid-deaths-obscured-inaccurate-death-certificates/8899157002/)

Using your "logic", those unvaccinated are dying at a higher rate. But it's the younger population that has a much lower vaccination rate.

Yet you insist it's only the older people who are dying...

Frankly, I don't give a whit as to what "you can promise me"...

Using what they said in "April 2020" is folly, since we now know they were making things up at that time...

I've seen the videos of the director of the CDC saying exactly what I said. Same with some State Health Administrators.

Case in point:

https://youtu.be/6SjwUXyP8j4

[JMintzer]

I guess you missed post #68 with the link. Of course it "doesn't add up to 89%" because your chart that "didn't show up" (LMAO), is ........wait for it........... AS OF a date. I am done here since you refuse to acknowledge or worse, can't comprehend the difference between "IN" August and "AS OF" August.

I didn't miss anything (except the highest age group, which I already admitted), despite your rant...

And no, you're not done...

[Bay Kid]

I'm lucky. Both feet hit the floor this morning. Keep yourself as healthy as possible.