Two Massive Liberal Policies

[Guest]

The two largest "socialist" programs in existence now are Social Security (signed into law by Franklin Roosevelt) and Medicare (signed into law by Lyndon Johnson).

How many true conservatives would be willing to give up their Social Security benefits and their Medicare benefits? I figure some of you are also veterans with service-connected disablities and are collecting some monthly benefits from the VA. Let's have all the true conservatives volunteer to bite the bullet a little (being true patriots, this is a small hardship) and denounce all of your government entitlements.

Don't give me this crap of "I worked for those benefits". Show your true colors and say you do not want these socialist programs and you will not take them anymore. Walk the walk if you talk the talk.

[Guest]

This same 'straw man' has been used mindlessly by liberals as long as I can remember - it was BS when it was first posted and is still BS.

1) There is no 'opting out' of Medicare just as individual citizens will have no right to opt out of Obamacare. Medicare is forced upon you if you want to have health insurance after age 65. If you bother to check out the reasonableness of your question, you will discover that you cannot even apply for individual coverage after age 64.5.

2) Once again, you cannot 'opt out' of receiving your Social Security check. You can give it to the government or whomever you choose. I would certainly donate the money to a much more worthy charity. FYI, I give more than my SS check to worthwhile causes. Do you?

3) VA health coverage is part of the compensation package we guarantee to the patriots that have kept us safe over the years. From your suggestion I infer that you have not served your country and do not qualify for these benefits.

Before you suggest that we not provide health care for disabled vets, why don't you consider how petty this suggestion is. No person who has any love for his country or respect for the sacrifices made by others could ever write this tripe.

[Guest]

Methinks there be a troller in the area!.

btk

[Guest]

BBQ Man has written a little reply to my sataric posting and I guess I will have to answer him.

I did not say the country should not give health benefits to veterans. Military veterans are guaranteed health benefits as well as many other benefits from the VA. These include educational assistance, home loans, aid to dependents of totally disabled veterans, and finally, burial at a National Cemetery. I was employed by the VA for all of my career. I did say that you did not have to accept the monthly VA checks for service-connected disabilities. You always have the right to tell the VA you do not wish to receive your monetary benefit and they will stop your check. Did I serve in the military? Yes and proudly in the US Army from 1966 to 1969.

You do have a choice of taking your Social Security benefits. In order to collect, you have to personally apply for Social Security retirement. Do I give my Social Security check to charity? Charity gifts are a personal choice and I will not answer that - just as I would not expect you to tell this forum what charities and what amounts you choose to give.

Am I a liberal? Not on most things but I really do not like the Tea Bag Party, the "conservative Christians", or extreme right-wingers who say everyone who does not think exactly like them is not a patriot.

[Guest]

BBQ Man has written a little reply to my sataric posting and I guess I will have to answer him.

I did not say the country should not give health benefits to veterans. Military veterans are guaranteed health benefits as well as many other benefits from the VA. These include educational assistance, home loans, aid to dependents of totally disabled veterans, and finally, burial at a National Cemetery. I was employed by the VA for all of my career. I did say that you did not have to accept the monthly VA checks for service-connected disabilities. You always have the right to tell the VA you do not wish to receive your monetary benefit and they will stop your check. Did I serve in the military? Yes and proudly in the US Army from 1966 to 1969.

You do have a choice of taking your Social Security benefits. In order to collect, you have to personally apply for Social Security retirement. Do I give my Social Security check to charity? Charity gifts are a personal choice and I will not answer that - just as I would not expect you to tell this forum what charities and what amounts you choose to give.

Am I a liberal? Not on most things but I really do not like the Tea Bag Party, the "conservative Christians", or extreme right-wingers who say everyone who does not think exactly like them is not a patriot.

This quote of yours....

"but I really do not like the Tea Bag Party, the "conservative Christians", or extreme right-wingers who say everyone who does not think exactly like them is not a patriot.

Hoping you can provide ONE instance of anyone saying this. You said it happened and so it must have but I just dont recall that being said !!

[Guest]

Don't forget that Social Security had an extremely high surplus that would have sustained all the baby boomers in comfort during our golden years. The government that democrats are so fond of threw that money down the sink hole. Think "Great Society" and how well that worked out for us.:shrug:

[Guest]

Bucco was right in his last posting. I was unclear in my wording about the Tea Bag Party, "conservative Christians", and other extreme right-wingers. I should have said, "... it seems as though those groups are saying if you do not think exactly as they do, you are un-American."

Yes, there are extremists on the left as well that are just as bad or even worse.

Ajax, I was talking of conservative patriots "walking the walk after talking the talk" of rejecting their Social Security because it is a "socialist" government entitlement. Of course, I was being sarcastic as I know that no one would return their entitlement.

[Guest]

Bucco was right in his last posting. I was unclear in my wording about the Tea Bag Party, "conservative Christians", and other extreme right-wingers. I should have said, "... it seems as though those groups are saying if you do not think exactly as they do, you are un-American."

Yes, there are extremists on the left as well that are just as bad or even worse.


So, NONE of what you said happened actually happened...interesting.

Yes there are extremists on both sides and nice to hear you say that. There ALWAYS has been extremist on both sides.

It would be great if you just discussed the issues and where you stand on them, recognizing that not all will agree and sometimes, you will get an extreme response. Your posts look like you are actually "trolling" as someone suggested and trying to get folks to respond.

I use this board to try and vent, but mostly to "educate" myself reading what others have found or feel in their heart. Honestly only a few things set me off....a purely political party kind of person who no matter what the facts, will follow the "company line"....those who attack folks personally which includes posters on here but also includes those who attack candidate's families or even the candidate themselves on a personal level. That is one thing that gets me involved in the Palin threads...I do not favor her as a candidate for President, but find it repulsive when I hear statements about her education, her family, or whatever.

Ok..said my piece...will leave you to whatever is motivating you !

[Guest]

The phrase "tea bag party" puts your posting on the level of a middle schooler. If you can, please get your mind out of the gutter and try to avoid using terms that you know and intend to be insulting and derogatory.

[Guest]

Methinks there be a troller in the area!.

btk



I have to agree with you. Do Not Feed the Trolls.

[Guest]

http://www.fishinginfo.co.za/images/trolling.jpg

[Guest]

This quote of yours....

"but I really do not like the Tea Bag Party, the "conservative Christians", or extreme right-wingers who say everyone who does not think exactly like them is not a patriot.

It sounds like you don't think much of anyone who doesn't think exactly like you.

Yoda

[Guest]

This quote of yours....

"but I really do not like the Tea Bag Party, the "conservative Christians", or extreme right-wingers who say everyone who does not think exactly like them is not a patriot.

It sounds like you don't think much of anyone who doesn't think exactly like you.

Yoda

Bingo!!! Another excellent observation by the esteemed Yoda. Your perceptive analysis of this post, and also the posters use of the derogatory label "tea bag party", convinced me to bypass commenting on this thread, but I had to applaud your insight.:clap2:

[Guest]

Bingo!!! Another excellent observation by the esteemed Yoda. Your perceptive analysis of this post, and also the posters use of the derogatory label "tea bag party", convinced me to bypass commenting on this thread, but I had to applaud your insight.:clap2:

Yes, the derogatory term is used by juvenile minds to incite anger or draw attention to themselves.

[Guest]

I may not agree with certain Tea Party positions, but it shows a lack of intelligence, a lack of debating skill and a lack of class to call them "Tea *******".

[Guest]

The two largest "socialist" programs in existence now are Social Security (signed into law by Franklin Roosevelt) and Medicare (signed into law by Lyndon Johnson).

How many true conservatives would be willing to give up their Social Security benefits and their Medicare benefits? I figure some of you are also veterans with service-connected disablities and are collecting some monthly benefits from the VA. Let's have all the true conservatives volunteer to bite the bullet a little (being true patriots, this is a small hardship) and denounce all of your government entitlements.

Don't give me this crap of "I worked for those benefits". Show your true colors and say you do not want these socialist programs and you will not take them anymore. Walk the walk if you talk the talk.

I might be willing to give them up if the government returns to me every single dollar of taxes they grabbed from me in 43 years of employment, plus interest, to "fund" these programs. That would only be fair if I was to consider your premise of now removing myself from these programs that I was forced into.

[Guest]

RichieLioa

Are you saying that IF it were possible (which it is not now), you would counsel your children -or grandchildren - just entering the workforce NOT to take Medicare or Social Security (if they were to have the option) or military disability benefit and to sign a binding agreement they will never ask for government assistance in any program?

They would be free to invest any or all of their salaries into real estate, stock market, or whatever but there woulld be no "government cheese" if hard times ever came. It would be sink or swim with no government life preserver available.

That would be a gutsy move to counsel the grandkids to do.

[Guest]

I don't know about Richie Liion, but I would do it in a heartbeat if given the opportunity. Yes, I would encourage my grandchildren to do the same, when they get into the work force.

[Guest]

I did absolutely teach my children and will continue to teach my grandchildren, by the Grace of God, to believe in the power of individual responsibillity, to believe in themselves and to believe in individuals and not to believe in government and institutions as the protector of the individual. That is a no-brainer IMHO. I can't imagine teaching my children or grandchildren to depend on government cheese if times get tough.

[Guest]

RichieLioa

Are you saying that IF it were possible (which it is not now), you would counsel your children -or grandchildren - just entering the workforce NOT to take Medicare or Social Security (if they were to have the option) or military disability benefit and to sign a binding agreement they will never ask for government assistance in any program?

They would be free to invest any or all of their salaries into real estate, stock market, or whatever but there woulld be no "government cheese" if hard times ever came. It would be sink or swim with no government life preserver available.

That would be a gutsy move to counsel the grandkids to do.

Absolutely Tbugs; now more that ever. The money my children and grandchildren are, and will be, pouring into these programs, they're never going to get back. I think they could do far better for themselves if the funds were not taken from them. Of course, it only benefits them if they do indeed invest wisely and judiciously with these monies; something the feds don't even do.

[Guest]

that fit their definition of socialism-like programs, were put together with we the people in mind. By "REPRESENTATIVES" who while still politicians were more for the people than today's politically, special interest, me first oriented phony representatives whose concern for we the people is the last priority.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that had I had the option to opt out and invest the money on my own, I would be sitting here with a look forward account with substantially more equity that the government has for my same contributed funds. My funds would not have been watered down by all the bogus legislation our so called representatives put forward.

And for sure me and my investment facilitators would NEVER have bought into let's sign up and then read to see what is in what we bought (ala Pelosi stupid direction).
Also remember that social security and medicare face some future shortfalls as the government has from time to time dipped into those funds when they were deemed to have surpluses...just like corporate America did to retirement funds.

No, it would not take much incentive other than to look at the cast of characters who wear the mis-nomer "representatives"...you know the ones who don't pay their taxes, the ones who direct funds to their advantage, the ones who actually steal and the whole array of those who cannot control their zippers (both sexes).

Given a choice.....NO THANX!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest]

RichieLion and the others that tagged on: I applaud you for your words. Richie did hit the nail on the head, though, when he said individual investing would only work if done continuouly and judicially. The government Social Security (or in my case, Civil Service Retirement System) automatically took the deductions from your paycheck. How many people would be so disciplined to do it themselves every 2 weeks? You may be planning to do it every two weeks - but that Lazy Boy recliner is on sale this week (Hey, mine is great!) and I will use this weeks investment money for that.

Anyhow, some good answers.

[Guest]

I just thought I'd like to add to this discussion that of all my close friends in my neighborhood group, only one person, besides myself, is primarily pension dependent. All others have IRA's, 401K's and other private investments that make up the bulk of their retirement income. So the majority of people that I know already provided for themselves, and Social Security is just some extra income from a plan that they had no choice but to participate in.