The Future of Medicine?

[jswirs]

I recently attended an informational meeting regarding NON-SURGICAL REGENERATION, with respect to reducing or eliminating joint pain. To summarize the process: Over several weeks a series of injections, using processed blood, stem cells and bone marrow from the patient's own body, are given directly into the painful joint. This substance is then expected to stay, and even regenerate, in the joint providing the lubrication necessary to relieve pain resulting from arthritis, scar tissue from previous trauma, overuse, etc.

The process is FDA approved, but not covered by insurance. There are many testimonials from patients which have resulted in, at least, partial success and a few patients have reported they are completely pain free. However, internet research shows some patients have not been helped at all and are calling this process a scam.

Does anyone have experience with this process? Any thoughts?

[retiredguy123]

My only thought is "scam".

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I recently attended an informational meeting regarding NON-SURGICAL REGENERATION, with respect to reducing or eliminating joint pain. To summarize the process: Over several weeks a series of injections, using processed blood, stem cells and bone marrow from the patient's own body, are given directly into the painful joint. This substance is then expected to stay, and even regenerate, in the joint providing the lubrication necessary to relieve pain resulting from arthritis, scar tissue from previous trauma, overuse, etc.

The process is FDA approved, but not covered by insurance. There are many testimonials from patients which have resulted in, at least, partial success and a few patients have reported they are completely pain free. However, internet research shows some patients have not been helped at all and are calling this process a scam.

Does anyone have experience with this process? Any thoughts?

There is no evidence that these treatments will regenerate tissue. They aren't "FDA approved". They're approved for study. That's why insurance doesn't cover it. The treatments are said to be temporary, between 3-6 months depending on the treatment, and costs anywhere between $500 and $10,000 depending on the treatment.

Cartilage repair and restoration has, however, offered actual restoration success in over 80% of the patients. One of these types of treatments is prescribed, and costs between $10,000 and $14,000. More are coming, and will be approximately 40,000 once approved by the FDA for use.

The Future of Joint Repair (https://www.arthritis.org/health-wellness/treatment/joint-surgery/preplanning/the-future-of-joint-repair)

[jswirs]

There is no evidence that these treatments will regenerate tissue. They aren't "FDA approved". They're approved for study. That's why insurance doesn't cover it. The treatments are said to be temporary, between 3-6 months depending on the treatment, and costs anywhere between $500 and $10,000 depending on the treatment.

Cartilage repair and restoration has, however, offered actual restoration success in over 80% of the patients. One of these types of treatments is prescribed, and costs between $10,000 and $14,000. More are coming, and will be approximately 40,000 once approved by the FDA for use.

The Future of Joint Repair (https://www.arthritis.org/health-wellness/treatment/joint-surgery/preplanning/the-future-of-joint-repair)

Really interesting, there is hope! Thank you OBB!

[VApeople]

I was at the Moffit Cancer Center in Tampa for some skin surgery in June, and I asked the Physicians Assistant if she enjoyed her job. She said she loved her job. She had read the book, "The Emperor of all Maladies" and it had really inspired her.

I bought the book and thought it was great. It is sub-titled "a biography of cancer", and it tells about all of the people, including the author, trying their best to deal with cancer. I am reading it now for the second time.

[retiredguy123]

Yes, there is research going on. But, some stem cell clinics have been scamming people for more than 20 years with worthless, and sometimes, harmful injections. The FDA has rules about using stem cells, but many people are encouraged to go to other countries for these treatments. If it is not covered by insurance, it is probably bogus.

[PugMom]

is this like the place that advertises on VillagesRadio, Q.C. Kinetics???

[jswirs]

is this like the place that advertises on VillagesRadio, Q.C. Kinetics???

You nailed it!

[La lamy]

There is no evidence that these treatments will regenerate tissue. They aren't "FDA approved". They're approved for study. That's why insurance doesn't cover it. The treatments are said to be temporary, between 3-6 months depending on the treatment, and costs anywhere between $500 and $10,000 depending on the treatment.

Cartilage repair and restoration has, however, offered actual restoration success in over 80% of the patients. One of these types of treatments is prescribed, and costs between $10,000 and $14,000. More are coming, and will be approximately 40,000 once approved by the FDA for use.

The Future of Joint Repair (https://www.arthritis.org/health-wellness/treatment/joint-surgery/preplanning/the-future-of-joint-repair)

Great link, important to note that most of these therapies are for early onset arthritis, not bone on bone issues. MACI is what I would trust, but $40,000 is quite a steep pocketbook endeavour!!!

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Great link, important to note that most of these therapies are for early onset arthritis, not bone on bone issues. MACI is what I would trust, but $40,000 is quite a steep pocketbook endeavour!!!

My hip replacement is going to cost around $25,000 - and insurance will cover all except the first $9100 of it (I think - hope - that's the theory in any case, according to my insurance documents for next year).

So would I spend $40k or even $10k on a treatment that /might/ help? Nope. I'll go for the surgery and spend a couple of months being sore. I'm nearly bone on bone. My 3rd and final cortisone shot is starting to wear off.

[Nell57]

I recently attended an informational meeting regarding NON-SURGICAL REGENERATION, with respect to reducing or eliminating joint pain. To summarize the process: Over several weeks a series of injections, using processed blood, stem cells and bone marrow from the patient's own body, are given directly into the painful joint. This substance is then expected to stay, and even regenerate, in the joint providing the lubrication necessary to relieve pain resulting from arthritis, scar tissue from previous trauma, overuse,

The process is FDA approved, but not covered by insurance. There are many testimonials from patients which have resulted in, at least, partial success and a few patients have reported they are completely pain free. However, internet research shows some patients have not been helped at all and are calling this process a scam.

Does anyone have experience with this process? Any thoughts?

A good friend paid for this procedure and had no improvement whatsoever in her joint.
She didn’t say it was a scam. She thought maybe if she’d had it done earlier it might have worked for her.
Two years later she had the joint replaced.

[La lamy]

My hip replacement is going to cost around $25,000 - and insurance will cover all except the first $9100 of it (I think - hope - that's the theory in any case, according to my insurance documents for next year).

So would I spend $40k or even $10k on a treatment that /might/ help? Nope. I'll go for the surgery and spend a couple of months being sore. I'm nearly bone on bone. My 3rd and final cortisone shot is starting to wear off.
Makes sense. All the best to you.

[ithos]

Stem cell therapy is the real deal. It may not cure everything but its effectiveness is improving rapidly.

Jack Nicholas is one who has experienced dramatic improvement in his health.

Golfer Jack Nicklaus says stem cell therapy cured his back pain | New Scientist (https://www.newscientist.com/article/2167552-golfer-jack-nicklaus-says-stem-cell-therapy-cured-his-back-pain/)

If you might be a candidate, I recommend Tony Robbins book Life Force. It may take years before it is covered by insurance but the progress being made is substantial.

[OhioBuckeye]

With all of the Drs. & Dr. office in & around TV, does anybody really think you’re getting what you want & do you think your Dr. is doing what’s good for you or like some people say here in their comments, it’s a scam!

[Miekies]

I recently attended an informational meeting regarding NON-SURGICAL REGENERATION, with respect to reducing or eliminating joint pain. To summarize the process: Over several weeks a series of injections, using processed blood, stem cells and bone marrow from the patient's own body, are given directly into the painful joint. This substance is then expected to stay, and even regenerate, in the joint providing the lubrication necessary to relieve pain resulting from arthritis, scar tissue from previous trauma, overuse, etc.

The process is FDA approved, but not covered by insurance. There are many testimonials from patients which have resulted in, at least, partial success and a few patients have reported they are completely pain free. However, internet research shows some patients have not been helped at all and are calling this process a scam.

Does anyone have experience with this process? Any thoughts?

My father recently went this route for a damaged knee. So far the last 6 months he has been going through the process. He actually grew back his minicus and the doctors were thrilled. But the electrode stimulator (no idea on the correct name lol) they used and the compression brace actually made his entire leg extremely week. He could ride his bike for 20+ miles a day but when he came to visit me this November it was difficult for him to walk. First time I've ever seen him weak physically. They have now stopped using the compression brace and the stimulator but they believe he will still need surgery. So 6 months and he's no better. Hopefully they can figure it out better.

[Fastskiguy]

Insurance companies love things that work, especially if they save money. Yet they are not covering it. You’ve gotta wonder why.

Joe

[MidWestIA]

Usually see big claims on the back of the snake oil injection bottle
I'll change my mind if you say it's done at a major medical university or hospital

[IndianaJones]

The American College of Rheumatology & the Osteoarthritis Foundation currently do not recommend stem cell treatment of the knee for these reasons: 1) there is not a standard protocol for preparing the injection; & 2) there is not enough evidence to prove it works or is safe (see Just a moment... (https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/art.41142) ). As a research scientist I can tell you the words “safe & effective “ don’t apply here. Too many clinics are broadening the application (note it’s indicated for osteoarthritis, not “general tissue repair”) & are making too specific of success claims. Stem cells themselves are “pluri-potential” & not enough research has been done for this specific application. A paper this year (Stem cell strategy for repairing joint damage shows promise in pig model | National Institute on Aging (https://www.nia.nih.gov/news/stem-cell-strategy-repairing-joint-damage-shows-promise-pig-model)) shows “promising results in pigs” but (here’s my thoughts) it appears to be variable. If you’ve got the $$ you can take the gamble, but “results may vary”!!

[Lisanp@aol.com]

A very close friend had moderate success with this procedure in her hand. I think it is a rapidly evolving area that’s still several years off from consistent positive results, but is very promising.

[Barbscats]

I had PRP (Platelet Rich Plasma) 10 years ago on my Achilles Tendon. One injection and it took about 6 months for the tendon to regenerate.

[retiredguy123]

Just Google "stem cell clinics in China". Average cost per treatment is $18,000. Lots of clinics to choose from where you can arrange transportation and schedule a treatment. They also will refer you to clinics that they own in other countries. But I don't recommend it.

[waterflower]

The FDA, NIH, CDC are all paid by big pharma. So who is really being scammed..Follow the money.

[The Chipster]

If you want to deep dive into the massive incoming medical advancements, read "The Code Breaker". If we can live long enough, say 10 more years, we will receive FDA-approved therapies that are mind-blowing.

[ndf888]

A good friend paid for this procedure and had no improvement whatsoever in her joint.
She didn’t say it was a scam. She thought maybe if she’d had it done earlier it might have worked for her.
Two years later she had the joint replaced.

Same here. I have been talked by a sports medicine doc into undergoing prolo, prp, and eventually stem cell injections for almost a year. No noticeable improvement whatsoever. Only made the pain worse. No reputable clinical trials to show efficacy or even safety. Stay away.

There is very solid research that supports treatments for central sensitization, which almost always accompanies chronic pain and makes it much worse. They won’t make all the pain go away, but will reduce it significantly.

E.g. Central sensitization syndrome: Diagnosis, symptoms, and more (https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/central-sensitization-syndrome)

I found that the Curable app works best for me but there are many others.
Blog - Curable Health (https://www.curablehealth.com/blog?gclid=CjwKCAiAhqCdBhB0EiwAH8M_Gk9N6SmCOIxhBRB rsvKGua77U2d0ZN9nNZ8lY4OMP4xCmE1ncTv5UxoCQIgQAvD_B wE)

I would check out treatments for central sensitization before any infections or surgery. What do you have to loose? There’re no side effects and very little costs. Good luck!

[chrissy2231]

I recently attended an informational meeting regarding NON-SURGICAL REGENERATION, with respect to reducing or eliminating joint pain. To summarize the process: Over several weeks a series of injections, using processed blood, stem cells and bone marrow from the patient's own body, are given directly into the painful joint. This substance is then expected to stay, and even regenerate, in the joint providing the lubrication necessary to relieve pain resulting from arthritis, scar tissue from previous trauma, overuse, etc.

The process is FDA approved, but not covered by insurance. There are many testimonials from patients which have resulted in, at least, partial success and a few patients have reported they are completely pain free. However, internet research shows some patients have not been helped at all and are calling this process a scam.

Does anyone have experience with this process? Any thoughts?
it's prp. important to use "baby stem cells," not your own. Need at least 3 trtmnts costing $2.5K-$4.5K. buy BigelOil
Amazon.com (https://www.amazon.com/Absorbine-Bigeloil-Liquid-Gel/dp/B07DM9BDCT/ref=sr_1_9?crid=3MQDT6GWYDQ67&keywords=bagel+oil&qid=1671986896&sprefix=bigel+oil%2Caps%2C137&sr=8-9)

[Dlpdo]

I was at the Moffit Cancer Center in Tampa for some skin surgery in June, and I asked the Physicians Assistant if she enjoyed her job. She said she loved her job. She had read the book, "The Emperor of all Maladies" and it had really inspired her.

I bought the book and thought it was great. It is sub-titled "a biography of cancer", and it tells about all of the people, including the author, trying their best to deal with cancer. I am reading it now for the second time.
I have read that book. I thought I was an excellent book on the history of cancer treatments. Book came out in 2015 and since that time treatment have continued to improve.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

The FDA, NIH, CDC are all paid by big pharma. So who is really being scammed..Follow the money.

Well let's see - it's alternative medicine that isn't yet approved by the FDA for use on patients in a clinical or hospital setting. And it can cost between $1000 and $40,000 per treatment.

If I follow the money it leads me to quackery, fraud, "big suppla" and alt-med. Because Big Pharma wouldn't approve its use if the insurance companies can't save money with it.

[jimbo2012]

My wife had a stem cell injection in her knee, the results couldn't be better.

No more pain

Procedure took about 30 minutes, now about 4 months later all good.

No insurance coverage, cost about $6500.

Sure beats knee surgery replacement

[Kathryn Putt]

I had stem cells injected into both hips 3 years ago. It has worked in the right hip but not the left because it was advanced to far on the left. I just had x-rays on the right hip and it has not changed/advanced. Good luck.

[YeOldeCurmudgeon]

I had stem cells injected into both hips 3 years ago. It has worked in the right hip but not the left because it was advanced to far on the left. I just had x-rays on the right hip and it has not changed/advanced. Good luck.

Rummaging through these comments, it appears these experimental treatments have worked for some but not others. So, it leads me to conclude that it depends on a variety of factors specific to each individual but primarily how serious the deterioration of the person's joint / cartilege is. Perhaps, even the method of the practitioner may play a role. Whatever, it appears that it is not a treatment that has been perfected yet but could work for some.

[retiredguy123]

Rummaging through these comments, it appears these experimental treatments have worked for some but not others. So, it leads me to conclude that it depends on a variety of factors specific to each individual but primarily how serious the deterioration of the person's joint / cartilege is. Perhaps, even the method of the practitioner may play a role. Whatever, it appears that it is not a treatment that has been perfected yet but could work for some.
There are two additional possible factors, the placebo effect, and that fact that some people may have gotten better with no treatment at all.

[PugMom]

My hip replacement is going to cost around $25,000 - and insurance will cover all except the first $9100 of it (I think - hope - that's the theory in any case, according to my insurance documents for next year).

So would I spend $40k or even $10k on a treatment that /might/ help? Nope. I'll go for the surgery and spend a couple of months being sore. I'm nearly bone on bone. My 3rd and final cortisone shot is starting to wear off.

yeah, it sounds like you're going to need the sx @ this point. all the conservative methods of treatment have been used up- best of luck :thumbup:

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

yeah, it sounds like you're going to need the sx @ this point. all the conservative methods of treatment have been used up- best of luck :thumbup:

Thanks. I'm feeling pretty good about it actually. If you have arthritis, you will not ever "not" have arthritis. Treating the symptoms only delays the inevitable. If it's slow-growing, you could outlive the need for surgery. Circumstances have resulted in my knowing this experience would come, back when I was in my early 30's.

Thankfully because of science, medicine, big pharma, and hospitals, this is an outpatient surgery now for otherwise-healthy people (such as myself).

I'll go in, in the morning, they'll prep me, give me some good knock-out drugs that have quick recovery time. Supposedly they go in through a small incision on the upper front of my thigh, clean up whatever bone is left, then fit a ceramic cap over the joint and stitch it back up again. If all goes well in the recovery room, I walk out of there (limping, obviously) some time before dinner the same day.

Physical therapy consists exclusively of walking.

[jimjamuser]

I recently attended an informational meeting regarding NON-SURGICAL REGENERATION, with respect to reducing or eliminating joint pain. To summarize the process: Over several weeks a series of injections, using processed blood, stem cells and bone marrow from the patient's own body, are given directly into the painful joint. This substance is then expected to stay, and even regenerate, in the joint providing the lubrication necessary to relieve pain resulting from arthritis, scar tissue from previous trauma, overuse, etc.

The process is FDA approved, but not covered by insurance. There are many testimonials from patients which have resulted in, at least, partial success and a few patients have reported they are completely pain free. However, internet research shows some patients have not been helped at all and are calling this process a scam.

Does anyone have experience with this process? Any thoughts?
As to stiffness and OVERUSE.........does that also apply to the brain? I could use some improvement in that area.

[jimjamuser]

My hip replacement is going to cost around $25,000 - and insurance will cover all except the first $9100 of it (I think - hope - that's the theory in any case, according to my insurance documents for next year).

So would I spend $40k or even $10k on a treatment that /might/ help? Nope. I'll go for the surgery and spend a couple of months being sore. I'm nearly bone on bone. My 3rd and final cortisone shot is starting to wear off.
That's the better choice. I know several people that have improved their movement and even running with a hip replacement. Good luck! I hope that I am still around when Medical Science gets around to memory and brain replacement. I have been losing altitude recently.

[jimjamuser]

My father recently went this route for a damaged knee. So far the last 6 months he has been going through the process. He actually grew back his minicus and the doctors were thrilled. But the electrode stimulator (no idea on the correct name lol) they used and the compression brace actually made his entire leg extremely week. He could ride his bike for 20+ miles a day but when he came to visit me this November it was difficult for him to walk. First time I've ever seen him weak physically. They have now stopped using the compression brace and the stimulator but they believe he will still need surgery. So 6 months and he's no better. Hopefully they can figure it out better.
That tells me that long-distance bike riding may be harder on the body than fast walking or swimming. Particularly if the bike is not perfectly fitted to someone. But, it would take a lot of statistical analysis to prove that.

[jimjamuser]

The FDA, NIH, CDC are all paid by big pharma. So who is really being scammed..Follow the money.
Big Pharma like BIG anything does do the scamming. However, I part company on the idea that the FDA, NIH, and CDC are Villians and NOT independent.

[jimjamuser]

Thanks. I'm feeling pretty good about it actually. If you have arthritis, you will not ever "not" have arthritis. Treating the symptoms only delays the inevitable. If it's slow-growing, you could outlive the need for surgery. Circumstances have resulted in my knowing this experience would come, back when I was in my early 30's.

Thankfully because of science, medicine, big pharma, and hospitals, this is an outpatient surgery now for otherwise-healthy people (such as myself).

I'll go in, in the morning, they'll prep me, give me some good knock-out drugs that have quick recovery time. Supposedly they go in through a small incision on the upper front of my thigh, clean up whatever bone is left, then fit a ceramic cap over the joint and stitch it back up again. If all goes well in the recovery room, I walk out of there (limping, obviously) some time before dinner the same day.

Physical therapy consists exclusively of walking.
Boy, hospitals have some really fine knock-out drugs. The technician wondered why I grabbed the mask out of his hands because he took too long. He got a laugh out of my wanting to go under quickly. But, I knew that I was going from the "pre-lim" happy shot to the better stuff. Drugs with little downsides.....life is good under the influence.