Roundabouts and the law

[lpkruege1]

It's funny how many posts there are about the roundabouts, and how few of the people actually know the law. You may have an opinion but knowing the law may save you from having an accident or getting a ticket. Look at section 5.17 of the Florida Drivers handbook.
Florida Driver Handbook | Roundabouts (https://www.lowestpricetrafficschool.com/handbooks/driver/en/5/17#content)

[Bikehike]

Are you allowed to go around the circle twice?

[ThirdOfFive]

Are you allowed to go around the circle twice?
Only if you don't know the way out.

"But did he ever return?
No he never returned
And his fate is still unlearned
He may ride forever
'Neath the streets of Boston
He's the man, who never returned"
(The Kingston Trio)

[Babubhat]

The law is irrelevant without enforcement. Slap on wrist for driving without a license. It’s pointless to discuss

[djlnc]

Are you allowed to go around the circle twice?

Three times max!

[Papa_lecki]

Are you allowed to go around the circle twice?

Hey Kids look, Big Ben…. Parliament

[Altavia]

It's funny how many posts there are about the roundabouts, and how few of the people actually know the law. You may have an opinion but knowing the law may save you from having an accident or getting a ticket. Look at section 5.17 of the Florida Drivers handbook.
Florida Driver Handbook | Roundabouts (https://www.lowestpricetrafficschool.com/handbooks/driver/en/5/17#content)

For multi-lane roundabouts, stay in the left lane to turn left and the right lane to turn right, and all lanes to go through, unless otherwise directed by signs or pavement markings.

Stay in your lane within the roundabout and use your right turn signal to indicate your intention to exit

[Keefelane66]

Most vehicle rules in The Villages are ignored from golf cart speed to ignoring speed limit signs and of course roundabouts. What is lacking is enforcement by local law enforcement.
Amazing how so many people are at sited for no license, suspended license, expired registered vehicles, offenders are cited bonded out to drive again. No wonder why Florida has such high motor Vehicle Insurance rates. Insurance reform by the State Legislative review is ineffective.

[retiredguy123]

I never understood why the state doesn't require a proof of insurance sticker or decal on the car showing the insurance expiration date. A large percentage of drivers have no insurance, and you won't know it until they have an accident. Some drivers will buy insurance and register a car for 2 years, but cancel the insurance after the first month.

[Arctic Fox]

For multi-lane roundabouts, stay in the left lane to turn left and the right lane to turn right, and all lanes to go through, unless otherwise directed by signs or pavement markings. Stay in your lane within the roundabout and use your right turn signal to indicate your intention to exit

A good summary of what the handbook says, but the main problem is those drivers who see that the outside lane is clear so enter the roundabout, without thinking about those vehicles that are in the inside lane (and will eventually have to cross the outside lane to exit).

[Bogie Shooter]

New titled thread all the other posts will show up here.:cus::shrug::duck:

[BrianL99]

A good summary of what the handbook says, but the main problem is those drivers who see that the outside lane is clear so enter the roundabout, without thinking about those vehicles that are in the inside lane (and will eventually have to cross the outside lane to exit).

In theory, you never have to cross the "outside lane" to exit a Roundabout.

I'm sure there may be more, but the only one in TV that I'm aware of, is turning onto Moyer Loop from Morse.

[Bill14564]

In theory, you never have to cross the "outside lane" to exit a Roundabout.

I'm sure there may be more, but the only one in TV that I'm aware of, is turning onto Moyer Loop from Morse.

In practice, you always have to cross the "outside lane" if you enter the roundabout in the left lane to use the inside lane.

[Arctic Fox]

In theory, you never have to cross the "outside lane" to exit a Roundabout.

You do if you are using the roundabout correctly.

If turning left, you enter the inside lane and stay in it until you want to exit. You do NOT move into the outside lane and then turn, but turn from the inside lane, across the outside lane.

That is why those in the outside lane need to be paying attention, positioned correctly, and allow those in front to make their turn ACROSS them.

If going straight over, you (usually) have the option of going in either lane, but if you choose the inside lane you still stay in it until your exit.

[Garywt]

The biggest issues are people in the outside lane continuing to the 3rd exit or people crossing the dashed lane without looking.

[fdpaq0580]

The law is irrelevant without enforcement. Slap on wrist for driving without a license. It’s pointless to discuss

Yeah! Post cops at every exit to shoot any law breakers. Now, that is enforcement!
🔫👮🔫👮🔫👮

[fishon]

96315

Touch to play gif.

[me4vt]

Simple


96315

Touch to play gif.

[rsmurano]

No wonder why people have so many problems diving in the roundabouts, they can’t describe the correct way to navigate them. Here are a couple statements that make no sense:
1) In theory, you never have to cross the "outside lane" to exit a Roundabout.
2) stay in the inside lane to turn left.

What? If you are inside lane lane to make the 3rd exit, you will have to cross over the outside lane to exit or you will always be going in a circle.
There is no left hand turn in a roundabout, only right hand turns to exit. Going around the roundabout is not turning left, if you turn left in a roundabout you will turn into the center where all the shrubs and trees are.
Using your turn signals doesn’t make a mistake into a right (no pun intended). For example, entering the roundabout into the inside lane and making the 1st right with your turn signal on doesn’t make it right.
I see these errors occur everyday.

[mikempp]

I never understood why the state doesn't require a proof of insurance sticker or decal on the car showing the insurance expiration date. A large percentage of drivers have no insurance, and you won't know it until they have an accident. Some drivers will buy insurance and register a car for 2 years, but cancel the insurance after the first month.

Oh great, like we need more laws? They do enforce the laws, we don’t need more laws, isn’t that why you moved from New York?

[Freehiker]

Hey Kids look, Big Ben…. Parliament

Haha. I love that movie.

[Warren]

Are you allowed to go around the circle twice?

You can go around the circle as many times as you want. I don't know the law. I have one rule when i approach the traffic circle: Approach it with caution. If the other person wants, or takes, the right of way, then give it to them! Always keep your eye on the cars around you, keep distance between you and them and ASSUME they DO NOT know the law or even that you are there.

[WhirledTraveler]

["Soaring Eagle was my MPK name.]

[Arctic Fox]

Are you allowed to go around the circle twice?

The diagram does not show that option (presumably because it is an unlikely scenario) but as long as you are in the inside lane and not signaling to take the next exit you can stay there as long as you like.

[Nanettek3]

Always approach the round about with caution. Some like the one at Savannah Center/El Camino/ GlenView is in the top 3 for accidents. Be safe, learn the rules, be cautious, you never know what someone else might do..,

[mkjelenbaas]

It's funny how many posts there are about the roundabouts, and how few of the people actually know the law. You may have an opinion but knowing the law may save you from having an accident or getting a ticket. Look at section 5.17 of the Florida Drivers handbook.
Florida Driver Handbook | Roundabouts (https://www.lowestpricetrafficschool.com/handbooks/driver/en/5/17#content)
Curious - how do you know “how few” people know…..? Do you have a crystal ball!

[defrey12]

If you can’t figure that out you need to go turn in your driver’s license!

[defrey12]

Are you allowed to go around the circle twice?
If you can’t figure that out you need to go turn in your driver’s license!

[Marathon Man]

No wonder why people have so many problems diving in the roundabouts, they can’t describe the correct way to navigate them. Here are a couple statements that make no sense:
1) In theory, you never have to cross the "outside lane" to exit a Roundabout.
2) stay in the inside lane to turn left.

What? If you are inside lane lane to make the 3rd exit, you will have to cross over the outside lane to exit or you will always be going in a circle.
There is no left hand turn in a roundabout, only right hand turns to exit. Going around the roundabout is not turning left, if you turn left in a roundabout you will turn into the center where all the shrubs and trees are.
Using your turn signals doesn’t make a mistake into a right (no pun intended). For example, entering the roundabout into the inside lane and making the 1st right with your turn signal on doesn’t make it right.
I see these errors occur everyday.

You are misunderstanding the tern "turn left" as it applies to roundabouts. "Turn left" means "take the third exit". You are making a left at the intersection.

[JGibson]

The solution to this is roundabouts have only one lane. Easy Peasy!

Two lane roundabouts is the crux of the problem.

[bark4me]

It's funny how many posts there are about the roundabouts, and how few of the people actually know the law. You may have an opinion but knowing the law may save you from having an accident or getting a ticket. Look at section 5.17 of the Florida Drivers handbook.
Florida Driver Handbook | Roundabouts (https://www.lowestpricetrafficschool.com/handbooks/driver/en/5/17#content)
And you must also Yield Right of Way to vehicles already in the roundabouts

[Bogie Shooter]

Curious - how do you know “how few” people know…..? Do you have a crystal ball!

Just read the round a bout threads………:ho:

[bark4me]

Most vehicle rules in The Villages are ignored from golf cart speed to ignoring speed limit signs and of course roundabouts. What is lacking is enforcement by local law enforcement.
Amazing how so many people are at sited for no license, suspended license, expired registered vehicles, offenders are cited bonded out to drive again. No wonder why Florida has such high motor Vehicle Insurance rates. Insurance reform by the State Legislative review is ineffective.
Did you know that Fla DMV issues people with no license vehicle registrations? How many of them have chauffeurs!

[lpkruege1]

Curious - how do you know “how few” people know…..? Do you have a crystal ball!

If you watch people at the roundabouts and read the posts, isn't it obvious?

[retiredguy123]

Oh great, like we need more laws? They do enforce the laws, we don’t need more laws, isn’t that why you moved from New York?
I didn't move from New York. But, isn't it more important for a car to be insured than to be registered? You have to display proof of registration on the vehicle, but not proof of insurance. 20 percent of drivers in Florida are uninsured. It seems like Florida wants people to be driving without insurance.

[waterflower]

This is a older community of aging limitations. Why would the developer put any in. Look at all the cities where they had them. Never worked out in a busy area. Just remove them.

[Steve]

Are you allowed to go around the circle twice?

You can spin around there all day if you want. Just stay in the inside lane. But you will have to exit sooner or later...unless you run out of gas...or your batteries die.

[Davonu]

This is a older community of aging limitations. Why would the developer put any in. Look at all the cities where they had them. Never worked out in a busy area. Just remove them.
They work many, many busy places…including The Villages.

[Steve]

Three times max!

So...who does the counting to enforce that "law"?

[DonRaleigh]

This is a older community of aging limitations. Why would the developer put any in. Look at all the cities where they had them. Never worked out in a busy area. Just remove them.

“The Florida Department of Transportation (FDOT) says that roundabouts in Florida have resulted in 90 percent fewer fatal crashes, 75 percent fewer injuries in those and 10-40 percent fewer pedestrian/bicycle crashes, and they are safer for beginner and elderly drivers.”

[Laker14]

You can go around the circle as many times as you want. I don't know the law. I have one rule when i approach the traffic circle: Approach it with caution. If the other person wants, or takes, the right of way, then give it to them! Always keep your eye on the cars around you, keep distance between you and them and ASSUME they DO NOT know the law or even that you are there.

Amen to that, Brother!

[Laker14]

This is a older community of aging limitations. Why would the developer put any in. Look at all the cities where they had them. Never worked out in a busy area. Just remove them.

UGH! No thanks! 11 traffic lights between 466 and 466A? Nope.

The Developers get an A+ from me for putting in roundabouts.

[Bogie Shooter]

This is a older community of aging limitations. Why would the developer put any in. Look at all the cities where they had them. Never worked out in a busy area. Just remove them.

I assume you are talking about RAB’s? So why is it there are hundreds of them being constructed all over the country? Do a little research and you will find your statement is wrong!

[bp243]

Simple

Thank you so much for the visual! That makes it very clear. As such, if you’re turning left you stay in the left lane, but since you’re really turning right into your village, you put on your right signal as you exit the roundabout so that ongoing traffic continues to yield. Is that what you do?

[Spalumbos62]

No wonder why people have so many problems diving in the roundabouts, they can’t describe the correct way to navigate them. Here are a couple statements that make no sense:
1) In theory, you never have to cross the "outside lane" to exit a Roundabout.
2) stay in the inside lane to turn left.

What? If you are inside lane lane to make the 3rd exit, you will have to cross over the outside lane to exit or you will always be going in a circle.
There is no left hand turn in a roundabout, only right hand turns to exit. Going around the roundabout is not turning left, if you turn left in a roundabout you will turn into the center where all the shrubs and trees are.
Using your turn signals doesn’t make a mistake into a right (no pun intended). For example, entering the roundabout into the inside lane and making the 1st right with your turn signal on doesn’t make it right.
I see these errors occur everyday.

I have read every comment so far about this and I believe this one is just not understanding the concept here. Obviously when they say making a left they mean your main objective as you leave. Look at it like an intersection....you enter at 6 o'clock and exit at 9, but to do this you go around 3/4 of the circle....if it were a normal intersection you'd be turning left...hope that helps.

[djlnc]

So...who does the counting to enforce that "law"?

Word is, they're going to repurpose some of those 87,000 IRS agents to do Roundabout Reconnaissance.

[Don Ferguson]

Inside lanes have the legal right of way, over the outside lane, when turning right! That is the law. It boggled my mind when I learned that. But, I have lived here 23 years and have been well served with the simple defensive driving philosophy that assumes the driver in inside lane may turn in front of me at any time to exit. Act accordingly and you will be fine.

[YeOldeCurmudgeon]

I posted on this yesterday. Wonder why it didn't get recorded?

[Jokomo]

The law is irrelevant without enforcement. Slap on wrist for driving without a license. It’s pointless to discuss

The law is VERY helpful in civil suits for damages.

[Bogie Shooter]

I posted on this yesterday. Wonder why it didn't get recorded?

Redundant post?

[Two Bills]

Inside lanes have the legal right of way, over the outside lane, when turning right! That is the law. It boggled my mind when I learned that. But, I have lived here 23 years and have been well served with the simple defensive driving philosophy that assumes the driver in inside lane may turn in front of me at any time to exit. Act accordingly and you will be fine.

23 years, and you still don't understand how roundabouts work!

[Carla B]

In describing how to navigate a circle I think we should drop the terms "left" and "right" lanes and call them "inner" and "outer" or "inside" and "outside" lanes. Then it would be less confusing visualizing how one turns "right from the left lane." It might even save hundreds of posts on the subject.

But I think the most important thing for people new to roundabouts is to figure out where they are going well in advance of approaching the circle and whether they need to be in the inner lane. By the time you pass the green sign with the diagram at the roundabout entrance, depending on traffic it may be too late to change lanes safely.

And replacing roundabouts with stop signs or traffic lights is a bad idea. If roundabouts are correctly used, traffic flows easily and accidents tend to be less serious, due to slower speeds. Accidents at intersections with traffic lights, at least at major crossroads with higher speeds, often have major consequences.

[SeaCros]

Its good to share the law "online" but 1. not all look here or there. 2. so many people here short time dont take the time to know/understand the law/rules. 3. How is it really enforced here in TVLG?

My $0.02

[Bobendres]

Bravo. Thanks

[Laker14]

Bravo. Thanks

You are very welcome. Glad I could help.

[Carla B]

Think negotiating RAB's here is unnerving? How about this one: https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrEZ_yBWrNjMCEAsy0PxQt.;_ylu=Y29sbwNiZjEEcG9 zAzEEdnRpZAMEc2VjA3Ny/RV=2/RE=1672727298/RO=10/RU=https%3a%2f%2fwww.youtube.com%2fwatch%3fv%3d-2RCPpdmSVg/RK=2/RS=vx3adiYiOGWW1tlc2I0cFc6SWEo-

[CFrance]

Think negotiating RAB's here is unnerving? How about this one: https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrEZ_yBWrNjMCEAsy0PxQt.;_ylu=Y29sbwNiZjEEcG9 zAzEEdnRpZAMEc2VjA3Ny/RV=2/RE=1672727298/RO=10/RU=https%3a%2f%2fwww.youtube.com%2fwatch%3fv%3d-2RCPpdmSVg/RK=2/RS=vx3adiYiOGWW1tlc2I0cFc6SWEo-

On top of that, vehicles entering that particular roundabout have the right-of-way. So everyone in the roundabout has to stop and let them in.

[golfing eagles]

In describing how to navigate a circle I think we should drop the terms "left" and "right" lanes and call them "inner" and "outer" or "inside" and "outside" lanes. Then it would be less confusing visualizing how one turns "right from the left lane." It might even save hundreds of posts on the subject.

But I think the most important thing for people new to roundabouts is to figure out where they are going well in advance of approaching the circle and whether they need to be in the inner lane. By the time you pass the green sign with the diagram at the roundabout entrance, depending on traffic it may be too late to change lanes safely.

And replacing roundabouts with stop signs or traffic lights is a bad idea. If roundabouts are correctly used, traffic flows easily and accidents tend to be less serious, due to slower speeds. Accidents at intersections with traffic lights, at least at major crossroads with higher speeds, often have major consequences.

Great idea---I wish I had thought of that. Oh, wait a minute, I did, 2 days ago. Here is the exact quote from post #28 on the other RB thread:

"They are NOT turning "right". If they are proceeding 180 or 270 degrees, they can be in the left (inner) lane---for 270 they MUST be in the inner lane. Exiting in accordance with the signage is NOT turning right from the "left" lane. Perhaps it would help some people understand if we exclusively used "inner and outer" rather than "left and right" within a RB. "

[JMintzer]

You are misunderstanding the tern "turn left" as it applies to roundabouts. "Turn left" means "take the third exit". You are making a left at the intersection.

He knows what they mean when they say "turn left".

He's just being pedantic...

[JMintzer]

The solution to this is roundabouts have only one lane. Easy Peasy!

Two lane roundabouts is the crux of the problem.

Except for the carnage of two lanes merging into one at every roundabout...

[JMintzer]

This is a older community of aging limitations. Why would the developer put any in. Look at all the cities where they had them. Never worked out in a busy area. Just remove them.

They are becoming more popular in the US. They help move more traffic...

[JMintzer]

You can spin around there all day if you want. Just stay in the inside lane. But you will have to exit sooner or later...unless you run out of gas...or your batteries die.

https://media.tenor.com/9LWb7n5FbcYAAAAC/the-simpsons-circle.gif

[JMintzer]

I'm waiting for them to install one of these...

https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/lastyyy-1529072896.gif

[HJBeck]

Only on Wednesdays.

[Garry Stack]

Great notice shows it clearly

[jimmy o]

This is a older community of aging limitations. Why would the developer put any in. Look at all the cities where they had them. Never worked out in a busy area. Just remove them.
You are mistaken if you think RBs don’t work in busy areas. Study after study have proven that they work best in the US and world wide. People just need to learn to use them. TV offers golf cart classes and in those classes RB usage is also taught. TV needs more RB classes, and all Villages should take one. As I’ve found a person knowing the correct usage can then ask thoughtful questions to help clarify misunderstood answers in class.

[DrHitch]

Yes, if you miss your exit or if it's blocked (eg pedestrian) you have the right-of-way to shift to the INNER lane safely and continue around...

Funny thing, in some countries you fly INTO a roundabout and only yield on the way OUT.....

[Indydealmaker]

For multi-lane roundabouts, stay in the left lane to turn left and the right lane to turn right, and all lanes to go through, unless otherwise directed by signs or pavement markings.

Stay in your lane within the roundabout and use your right turn signal to indicate your intention to exit

When you discuss roundabouts, there is no place for "left" turns. They are not 4 way intersections.

[Bill14564]

When you discuss roundabouts, there is no place for "left" turns. They are not 4 way intersections.

Most *ARE* four-way intersections with an obstruction in the middle that you need to drive around. Fortunately, all the lanes have been shoved outward to avoid the obstruction resulting in what looks like a circle from above.

[arickis]

In the roundabout at Morse and El Camino, the on street marking arrows for the inside lane point left and straight only, they do not point to an exit right turn from the inside lane, even though their are broken white lines and a traffic lane to do so.?? This could be a valid point of contention if there is a collision from someone turning out of the RB from the inside lane. The lane shows exit acces but the arrows on the road do not.

[rogerk]

The law is only irrelevant until you’re involved in an accident that you caused because you didn’t follow the law (or the rules you considered wrong).

[rogerk]

In the roundabout at Morse and El Camino, the on street marking arrows for the inside lane point left and straight only, they do not point to an exit right turn from the inside lane, even though their are broken white lines and a traffic lane to do so.?? This could be a valid point of contention if there is a collision from someone turning out of the RB from the inside lane. The lane shows exit acces but the arrows on the road do not.
I wouldn’t try to challenge this. The laws are actually very simple and clear. Get the Sumter County booklet on driving in a roundabout. All of this is based on USDoT data and recommendations.

[Bill14564]

In the roundabout at Morse and El Camino, the on street marking arrows for the inside lane point left and straight only, they do not point to an exit right turn from the inside lane, even though their are broken white lines and a traffic lane to do so.?? This could be a valid point of contention if there is a collision from someone turning out of the RB from the inside lane. The lane shows exit acces but the arrows on the road do not.

The arrows in that roundabout, and in all the roundabouts I looked at, indicate the inside lane can proceed straight or turn left which is consistent with the green signs at the entrance to the roundabout. The broken lines don't allow the inside lane to turn right, they allow traffic already in the inside lane to travel straight out of the roundabout.

If traffic in the outside lane exits properly and traffic entering the circle yields properly then there will be no collision. Unfortunately, too many don't know or care what thw proper way is or they insist they know better.

[Two Bills]

When you discuss roundabouts, there is no place for "left" turns. They are not 4 way intersections.

A roundabout is just a junction, and the lane discipline is no different to any other two lane junction.
You make a left turn, a right turn or go straight on.
So simple.

[Jimmy Lee]

I stood in the center island of the roundabout at the intersection of Morse Blvd and the north end of Moyer Loop. I had a pencil and clipboard and recorded the number of southbound Morse Blvd. vehicles that exited the roundabout onto Moyer Loop from the left (correct) lane in the roundabout and from the right (incorrect) lane. Amazingly out of 100 vehicles 50 did it right and 50 did it wrong despite the fact that there's a green sign visible to drivers coming southbound on Morse toward the roundabout with a diagram showing which lanes to use. This was a couple of years ago, so maybe by now more people have figured it out. I admit I was was doing it wrong when moved here.

[rustyp]

Possible solution - mount 24/7 surveillance cameras in the roundabouts with the highest number of accidents. Issue picture summons for rule violators similar to citations for running a red light. Then the argumenters against the rules of RAB can have their day in court. Tell your rationals to the judge not me. In the interim for my safety follow the signs posted at your entrance to the RAB.

[Marathon Man]

This is a older community of aging limitations. Why would the developer put any in. Look at all the cities where they had them. Never worked out in a busy area. Just remove them.

What a shame that you feel this way. Does aging limitations include no longer able to learn?

[DAVES]

It's funny how many posts there are about the roundabouts, and how few of the people actually know the law. You may have an opinion but knowing the law may save you from having an accident or getting a ticket. Look at section 5.17 of the Florida Drivers handbook.
Florida Driver Handbook | Roundabouts (https://www.lowestpricetrafficschool.com/handbooks/driver/en/5/17#content)

Yes, endless posts. As I read them, I am back where I was. Assuming that people going on the roundabouts know the law, is a reach. Betting your life, that they know the law AND WILL FOLLOW IT that is a far reach.