How do we stop the addition of Pitch and Putt courses?

[Dcurrie911]

Three pitch and putt courses south of 44. These courses are the last to get booked which is a clear indicator that they are least desirable for home owners. This activity of building non-desirable pitch and putt courses south of 44 continues to put pressure on executive courses north of 44. How do we stop this bad behavior? I sent a mail to villages.com but wonder if there is a better way.

Dan

[Bogie Shooter]

:popcorn::popcorn:

[Rainger99]

I don’t know why they built Richmond as a pitch & putt instead of as an executive. It is 18 holes and the total length is about 1300 yards. You could easily put a nine hole executive on the piece of land.

[Dcurrie911]

I agree Rainger99. Same could be said for Marsh View. So how do we stop their bad behavior? Build what home owners want or The Villages will decline.

[Babubhat]

Waste of resources. Executive courses from green tees are the same thing as pitch putt

[Dcurrie911]

Babubhat, I don’t understand your reply. Could you elaborate?

[Dcurrie911]

Let’s cut to the chase. It is a fact that the pitch and putt courses book last, thus they are the least desirable courses to play. Why? It is a fact that 190 yd tee shots are harder than 90 yd tee shots. Contrary to what others may imply. People want to play courses that offer challenges. If you are ok with pitch and putt courses. Or if you are ok with people south of 44 driving north to play then please push back on my post. Otherwise, I am simply asking if there are ways to help influence the developers to build what home owners want.

[Altavia]

You're right, since there are now more people playing Pickleball than golf, those resources should be devoted to more Pickleball facilities.

Covered with lights would be really great.

[Dcurrie911]

Not a reply that I expected. But it is respected. 😊

[Rainger99]

There are thousands of people on TOTV. People should post their preferences - executive courses or pitch & putts.

If you want the developer to build more executive courses, post that.

If you want the developer to build more pitch & putts, post that.

We can send the results to the developer. I would think he might be interested in the results.

[UpNorth]

What do you expect? If the developer has a choice of building an Executive course on a piece of land or jamming it with saleable houses, it's no surprise what takes preference. They would put in mini golf if they thought it would fool enough people.

[Dcurrie911]

Yep…. If people don’t stand up they will go to virtual golf. What could be cheaper? I have contacted them, is there batter suggestions?

[Garywt]

Didn’t realize that the pitch and putts needed tee times. As for anyone south playing up north, that is what the courses are there for. Anyone can play anywhere.

[MrChip72]

I don’t know why they built Richmond as a pitch & putt instead of as an executive. It is 18 holes and the total length is about 1300 yards. You could easily put a nine hole executive on the piece of land.

Have you played Richmond? I have. The total length might be 1300 yards, but there's no way there's enough real estate there to make it an executive or at least one worth playing. When you start building holes over 150 yards you actually need a reasonable width for a fairway. Richmond is already extremely tight even for a pitch n putt. The width allotted for each hole is quite narrow. In fact there's at least 3 holes on that course where it's not difficult to accidentally land your drive on a different green than you're aiming for.

Playing on Richmond it's very obvious it was built as a buffer to the turnpike. Seems like that's why March Bend Pitch n Putt was built as well. In the case of Richmond though, they probably could've made it an Executive but it would probably mean an extra 20 homes not being built to create the extra space. Of course that means less profit for the developer. Would've been a great location for an executive though.

[derkster]

The least they could do is treat the Pitch and Putt courses as a separate category in the reservation system like they do with Executive and Championship courses. I would actually play them if it did not add a point to my Executive play totals. It is a point that impacts getting group reservations in the system and should not be considered as having played an Executive course.

[Pete Swanson]

Three pitch and putt courses south of 44. These courses are the last to get booked which is a clear indicator that they are least desirable for home owners. This activity of building non-desirable pitch and putt courses south of 44 continues to put pressure on executive courses north of 44. How do we stop this bad behavior? I sent a mail to villages.com but wonder if there is a better way.

Dan

How did you arrive at the conclusion that they are the last to be booked? What was your source of info?

[RoyCooper]

Such an odd take. It's not like The Villages invented the game for selfish reasons. Pitch N Putt is an internationally recognized game.

For those of us that moved to The Villages and have no golfing experience, we're finding the PNP's to be really enjoyable and helpful to ease us into the game.

I'll bet the same people complaining about the PNP's would be REALLY complaining if they had me in from of them on an executive course holding them up as I learn what the heck I'm doing.

[DARFAP]

So golfers hit every green from 90 yards in... Therefore, we don't need pitch and putts and green tees on exec courses. Okay. There are beginners out there. The courses are built for all levels.

[Normal]

PNPs assist many with their short game. Wedges, 9s and putters are used the for the majority of the shots on a course or in a game. I guess you could ask, “ Why are all the driving ranges north of 466 A? “ too, and people would still complain.

[CSB1228]

I don’t know why they built Richmond as a pitch & putt instead of as an executive. It is 18 holes and the total length is about 1300 yards. You could easily put a nine hole executive on the piece of land.

I've played it. I don't really like them. I don't think that 3 regular tee boxes and even a short fairway for each hole and cart paths could have been put in that area though.

[Dyand]

I love the pitch/putts and play them at least 3-4 times per week. It’s at these types of courses where you really improve your short golf game, get great exercise, and meet new people. I have not observed these courses to be the last ones booked. Sometimes I call the morning of play looking for an open tee time…usually, it’s just before dusk before I get a time. So glad to see MickeyLee open…I’ve played it twice, and love it!

[rustyp]

Three pitch and putt courses south of 44. These courses are the last to get booked which is a clear indicator that they are least desirable for home owners. This activity of building non-desirable pitch and putt courses south of 44 continues to put pressure on executive courses north of 44. How do we stop this bad behavior? I sent a mail to villages.com but wonder if there is a better way.

Dan

1 put it in the suggestion box at your postal station
2 write it in the yearly residents survey
3 then go to Katie Belle's and wait while sipping a tall glass of water with lemon

:evil6:

[Dcurrie911]

My source of information is the tee time reservation system. Simply try booking a tee time for 2 people two days out or for the next day. You will see that the vast majority if not only open tee times between 9:00 and 4:00 are on pitch and putt courses. The same was true last winter when we only had Marsh Bend. It was always the last course with open time slots.

Of course there is value in pitch and putt courses. I played Marsh Bend last year and enjoyed it. However prefer playing longer holes with grass tee boxes. And based on the reservation system the majority of other golfers within the villages feel the same way.

The last two executive courses built by T&V have been pitch and putt. If you want to see the trend continue then fine. Personally though I have sent a note to the villages.com and asked them to stop building new pitch and putt based on the information I shared above.

[jarodrig]

How did you arrive at the conclusion that they are the last to be booked? What was your source of info?

You can easily confirm that what Swanson says is true .

Log on to the tee times system and look for open tee times . Select the option to look courses by time .

What you’ll see repeatedly is that most of the executives are not available during mid morning through late afternoon. In other words , these most desirable tee times are gone.

However , you’ll see that there will be many, many tee times an available through most of the day on the Pitch and Putt courses.

Conclusion ? Yes, they ARE last to be booked if booked at all !

[coconutmama]

My source of information is the tee time reservation system. Simply try booking a tee time for 2 people two days out or for the next day. You will see that the vast majority if not only open tee times between 9:00 and 4:00 are on pitch and putt courses. The same was true last winter when we only had Marsh Bend. It was always the last course with open time slots.

Of course there is value in pitch and putt courses. I played Marsh Bend last year and enjoyed it. However prefer playing longer holes with grass tee boxes. And based on the reservation system the majority of other golfers within the villages feel the same way.

The last two executive courses built by T&V have been pitch and putt. If you want to see the trend continue then fine. Personally though I have sent a note to the villages.com and asked them to stop building new pitch and putt based on the information I shared above.

Totally agree. Glad we have PNPs, but we have enough of them (maybe 1 too many). We do need more executive 9 hole courses. But unfortunately TV is not a democracy.

[mlmarr]

It's all about land use..be happy or move.. trying to keep everyone happy is really hard these days..wanting more...

[geobar]

Be Thankful "The Morse Clan" has given you a few activities South of CR-44.
.
As you well know by now living South of CR-44 definitely does not have the number of activities as up North. Do you?
.
Perhaps your Village Sales person did not tell you everything. For some reason, they are told WHAT TO SAY and what not to MENTION.
.
People will buy South of CR-44 and do not know what they are in for.
.
Just how many Publix stores do you have to shop in in the South?
.
Might you have more than one shopping center for how many people?
.
You need to drive North to Shop, and Dine, and to a Town Square overloading them. When they were designed it was for the number of homes being developed near them. Seems the Morse Clan does not care other than selling homes for huge profits.
.
Before buying South of CR-44 do yourself a favor and talk to Real Estate Brokers not affiliated with The Villages as there are many for thier views.



Three pitch and putt courses south of 44. These courses are the last to get booked which is a clear indicator that they are least desirable for home owners. This activity of building non-desirable pitch and putt courses south of 44 continues to put pressure on executive courses north of 44. How do we stop this bad behavior? I sent a mail to villages.com but wonder if there is a better way.

Dan

[Rwirish]

A few pitch and putt courses are okay. The number is becoming excessive. Bottom line, cheaper to build a pitch and put then an executive course. Also, more houses can be squeezed in.

Not everyone can walk a pitch and putt course. They exclude many people from playing.

The number of courses south of 44 is simply concerning despite the map showing future courses.

[Altavia]

There is one more P&P in the planning, Live Oak. just south of Monarch Grove. Laural Oak, A new executive of planned just south of that.

[GizmoWhiskers]

Yep…. If people don’t stand up they will go to virtual golf. What could be cheaper? I have contacted them, is there batter suggestions?
Yep, kinda like the beautiful Brownwood theater is a building most likely collecting mold in the duct work now. The Developer has left the building...

[TomPerry]

I think there are many more people playing the PNPs than shown on the tee time reservation system. I think many people just walk up to the starter shack without a tee time and sign-in. Every time we go to Edna’s the PNP seems to have a lot of play! If you are a person who has never played golf, or is starting out as a beginner and don’t want to slow down the play on an executive course, would you sign up and pay for the tee time system if you were starting out and trying it out? The only way to find out now many people are actually playing the PNPs is to go to the starter shack and see how many have signed up on the tally sheets, or call the golf administration office and ask, they know.

[MerrieJ]

Disappointed that the closest executive course to Citrus Grove is over a half hour away. More than the one or two planned on the other side of the Turnpike would be better than several more pitch and putts.

[John Mayes]

Disappointed that the closest executive course to Citrus Grove is over a half hour away. More than the one or two planned on the other side of the Turnpike would be better than several more pitch and putts.

Actually, six executive courses are planned south of the turnpike.

[PJackpot]

Let’s cut to the chase. It is a fact that the pitch and putt courses book last, thus they are the least desirable courses to play. Why? It is a fact that 190 yd tee shots are harder than 90 yd tee shots. Contrary to what others may imply. People want to play courses that offer challenges. If you are ok with pitch and putt courses. Or if you are ok with people south of 44 driving north to play then please push back on my post. Otherwise, I am simply asking if there are ways to help influence the developers to build what home owners want.

Oh, I did not realize you speak for all homeowners.

[PJackpot]

Three pitch and putt courses south of 44. These courses are the last to get booked which is a clear indicator that they are least desirable for home owners. This activity of building non-desirable pitch and putt courses south of 44 continues to put pressure on executive courses north of 44. How do we stop this bad behavior? I sent a mail to villages.com but wonder if there is a better way.

Dan

I'm stunned at how many people here think the world revolves around them. Fortunately, I doubt the developer has any interest in what a few self absorbed individuals want.

[PaPaLarry]

Is there parking for cars at all these pitch and putt courses.?

[MerrieJ]

Per the Daily Sun on Jan. 3 -
two executive, 2 championship, one pitch and putt.

[Brwne]

Three pitch and putt courses south of 44. These courses are the last to get booked which is a clear indicator that they are least desirable for home owners. This activity of building non-desirable pitch and putt courses south of 44 continues to put pressure on executive courses north of 44. How do we stop this bad behavior? I sent a mail to villages.com but wonder if there is a better way.

Dan

The Developers are planning 20 years out, so the global picture is different than what people complain about today. Oddly enough, not everyone of the 140,000 living in "The Bubble" play golf, so other activities are also needed. There are 13 Championship courses, 41 executive courses, 3 pitch & putts, and 3 putt & plays - that's a whole lot of golf! There are plenty of opportunities to play executive courses, if you consider all 41 + 3 as options. And why not, The Bubble is a unique and amazing place to live - getting out and seeing everything above "44" may just enhance one's appreciation for the exceptional job the developers have done, are doing now, and are planning for the future.

Booking 4-some tee times for playing 4 times a week and 8 couples for Saturdays, I've experienced not getting the requested time/courses out of a list of 12 in each Request. And yes, there are tee times available 3 days in advance to provide play the Pitch & Putts - but they are full, on game day, too. We've never had to sit home, without a tee time, which, to me, is amazing. Our 8 couples were scheduled to El Diablo yesterday, so travel is not out of the question (playing in the rain is, though).

The day the Developers stop making money is the day I put my house on the market. Forbes says each of the family members are billionaires - they don't HAVE to do this, so they must ENJOY doing it.

[John Mayes]

Per the Daily Sun on Jan. 3 -
two executive, 2 championship, one pitch and putt.

Three new championship courses, (two 18’s and one 27), six executives, one additional pitch and putt and a golf academy.

Continuing The Dream: Volume 15 (https://www.nxtbook.com/thevillages/TheVillages/ContinuingTheDream_Vol15/index.php)

[Beyond The Wall]

Three pitch and putt courses south of 44. These courses are the last to get booked which is a clear indicator that they are least desirable for home owners. This activity of building non-desirable pitch and putt courses south of 44 continues to put pressure on executive courses north of 44. How do we stop this bad behavior? I sent a mail to villages.com but wonder if there is a better way.

Dan

Convert 1 or 2 executive courses way north to pitch and putt or just putt And build more executive south. The older population enjoy the shorter holes, maybe not the walking.
There seems to be plenty of pickle ball courts. Indoor or covered courts a good idea but costly idea.

The business model for the current expansion has changed.
Spanish Springs was built BEFORE the surrounding villages. Same with Sumter. Same with Brownwood. Build it and they will come!
Now its …………..They will come anyway!

Sawgrass is a new concept. While a more casual idea it is NOT A SQUARE. The newer villages are waiting for a REAL SQUARE and courses. The number of homes is putting pressure on current infrastructure to the north. Villages south of 44 are hiring bands and entertainment and holding block parties ! It shouldn’t be this way.
However , as long as demand remains high, the developer is going to build in a way that makes them the most profit. More $$$ in houses then golf courses.

Growth brings new challenges and problems. Chose your area to buy wisely

[Bogie Shooter]

Be Thankful "The Morse Clan" has given you a few activities South of CR-44.
.
As you well know by now living South of CR-44 definitely does not have the number of activities as up North. Do you?
.
Perhaps your Village Sales person did not tell you everything. For some reason, they are told WHAT TO SAY and what not to MENTION.
.
People will buy South of CR-44 and do not know what they are in for.
.
Just how many Publix stores do you have to shop in in the South?
.
Might you have more than one shopping center for how many people?
.
You need to drive North to Shop, and Dine, and to a Town Square overloading them. When they were designed it was for the number of homes being developed near them. Seems the Morse Clan does not care other than selling homes for huge profits.
.
Before buying South of CR-44 do yourself a favor and talk to Real Estate Brokers not affiliated with The Villages as there are many for thier views.

A bulletin from Port St. Lucie, FL.

[Johnsocat]

There are thousands of people on TOTV. People should post their preferences - executive courses or pitch & putts.

If you want the developer to build more executive courses, post that.

If you want the developer to build more pitch & putts, post that.

We can send the results to the developer. I would think he might be interested in the results.

I vote for a golf cart drive in movie...

[Robin Hardwick]

I vote for more executive…enough pitch and putt and championship courses until they get further south..

[ThomasMur]

They are all booked every day. I think these courses are great.

[GmaLisaG]

The good thing is if you are unhappy here you don't have to stay.

[srswans]

Is there parking for cars at all these pitch and putt courses.?

Yes - at all three south of 44.

[srswans]

Three pitch and putt courses south of 44. These courses are the last to get booked which is a clear indicator that they are least desirable for home owners. This activity of building non-desirable pitch and putt courses south of 44 continues to put pressure on executive courses north of 44. How do we stop this bad behavior? I sent a mail to villages.com but wonder if there is a better way.

Dan

I like the pitch-n-putts - good short-game practice and 18 holes.

That said, three south of 44 is enough - need more executives closer to Sawgrass - can’t wait for Eastport!

[bark4me]

Three pitch and putt courses south of 44. These courses are the last to get booked which is a clear indicator that they are least desirable for home owners. This activity of building non-desirable pitch and putt courses south of 44 continues to put pressure on executive courses north of 44. How do we stop this bad behavior? I sent a mail to villages.com but wonder if there is a better way.

Dan
You can't stop it so just relax, sit back and enjoy. Build them and they will come 😉

[justjim]

I know a number of golfers that play the executive courses because they cannot walk the pitch and putt courses. It would be nice to built a pitch and putt course with golf cart paths or an executive course (with cart paths) with only two sets of tees with the longest hole no more than 125-130 yards. Call it a “starter course”or whatever. It’s not “rocket science”. A starter course would take considerable less land and designed for golfers just starting to play or for one wanting to sharpen their short game. Almost everyone happy? ������

[DAVES]

I like the pitch-n-putts - good short-game practice and 18 holes.

That said, three south of 44 is enough - need more executives closer to Sawgrass - can’t wait for Eastport!

I for one am glad the inmates are not running this place. Imagine the endless posting to decide what flowers to put where.

[rustyp]

I know a number of golfers that play the executive courses because they cannot walk the pitch and putt courses. It would be nice to built a pitch and putt course with golf cart paths or an executive course (with cart paths) with only two sets of tees with the longest hole no more than 125-130 yards. Call it a “starter course”or whatever. It’s not “rocket science”. A starter course would take considerable less land and designed for golfers just starting to play or for one wanting to sharpen their short game. Almost everyone happy? ������

We already have one of those:
El Santiago - level 1 - big cups

[John Mayes]

Yes - at all three south of 44.

I don’t think Marshview has car parking.

[DonH57]

We already have one of those:
El Santiago - level 1 - big cups

Sarasota has big and small cups as well.

[rickaslin]

I don’t think Marshview has car parking. It is in same parking lot as Edna's

[John Mayes]

It is in same parking lot as Edna's

Yes, you’re right. My mistake. I guess I was thinking about the Fenney putt ‘n play.

[photo1902]

I don’t think Marshview has car parking.

There is ample parking for cars

[Laraine]

Now that is a valid point I hadn't thought about!

[MSGirl]

Waste of resources. Executive courses from green tees are the same thing as pitch putt
So wrong! Pitch and Putt- 1. You tee off a cushioned pad. 2. The play is completely off from an executive course 3. If there are sand traps, they are minimal 4. Greens are flat 5. There are no par 4s …

[Dilligas]

What do you expect? If the developer has a choice of building an Executive course on a piece of land or jamming it with saleable houses, it's no surprise what takes preference. They would put in mini golf if they thought it would fool enough people.
You are looking at the argument incorrectly.......the developer earns more from the land if he can sell a house that overlooks that land. A pitch & putt does not allow that, where an executive has many homes with premium lots around them.

[MSGirl]

Yep, kinda like the beautiful Brownwood theater is a building most likely collecting mold in the duct work now. The Developer has left the building...

Regarding Brownwood theater- the movie industry in Hollywood is the culprit. Unfortunately many movie theater corporations are suffering and/or going out of business. Regal is one of them…nationally

[retfc2@yahoo.com]

Three pitch and putt courses south of 44. These courses are the last to get booked which is a clear indicator that they are least desirable for home owners. This activity of building non-desirable pitch and putt courses south of 44 continues to put pressure on executive courses north of 44. How do we stop this bad behavior? I sent a mail to villages.com but wonder if there is a better way.

Dan
I platy both Ex. & P/P. I enjoy both. Are you a golf elitists? There are levels of gofers, get used to it.

[rsmurano]

Have you actually tried to get a t time at Richmond? It’s is just as difficult to get a t time as other executive course. i know some people don’t like sarasota either because it’s pretty easy. Marsh Bend needs to get cleaned up to take some pressure off Richmond.

[DonH57]

So wrong! Pitch and Putt- 1. You tee off a cushioned pad. 2. The play is completely off from an executive course 3. If there are sand traps, they are minimal 4. Greens are flat 5. There are no par 4s …

The pitch and putts are fine unfortunately those pads are not so cushioned. Anytime I've played Marshview I've used older clubs I don't care about possibly damaging. They're nice but we now have enough.

[coconutmama]

I know a number of golfers that play the executive courses because they cannot walk the pitch and putt courses. It would be nice to built a pitch and putt course with golf cart paths or an executive course (with cart paths) with only two sets of tees with the longest hole no more than 125-130 yards. Call it a “starter course”or whatever. It’s not “rocket science”. A starter course would take considerable less land and designed for golfers just starting to play or for one wanting to sharpen their short game. Almost everyone happy? ������

Yes! Many cannot walk the PNP, that is true. A cart path would be helpful. Good idea

[MandoMan]

Three pitch and putt courses south of 44. These courses are the last to get booked which is a clear indicator that they are least desirable for home owners. This activity of building non-desirable pitch and putt courses south of 44 continues to put pressure on executive courses north of 44. How do we stop this bad behavior? I sent a mail to villages.com but wonder if there is a better way.

Dan

People love the pleasure of making long drives, but for a large percentage of players who want to improve, spending hours pitching and putting will help their score a lot more. Think how many players drive bucket after bucket of balls at driving ranges but never pitch buckets and learn to place the pitched balls accurately. Pitch and putt courses focus on what may be the hardest parts of the game for most players.

[Bogie Shooter]

Yes! Many cannot walk the PNP, that is true. A cart path would be helpful. Good idea

A trail fee comes along with a cart path. Lay down you 4 bucks.

[Bogie Shooter]

Three new championship courses, (two 18’s and one 27), six executives, one additional pitch and putt and a golf academy.

Continuing The Dream: Volume 15 (https://www.nxtbook.com/thevillages/TheVillages/ContinuingTheDream_Vol15/index.php)

This is worth repeating for those that don’t read ALL posts before offering an opinion!

[coconutmama]

The OP was merely expressing an opinion. Too many snarky comments here.

[bjansson]

You have to consider the hazards of putting an executive course that close to the freeway. The fairways are a lot longer on an Executive course and you really have to belt that ball out there to get to the green. If that ball went awry you might hit someone on the freeway accidently. So in lieu of putting up great big nets to protect the freeway drivers the developer gets to save land and build more houses.

When they start developing the land farther away from the freeway I'm sure they will add more executive courses south of 44.

[MrFlorida]

We like the PNP's, great for new players.

[MaryShields]

Build more executives!

[Bogie Shooter]

Three new championship courses, (two 18’s and one 27), six executives, one additional pitch and putt and a golf academy.

Continuing The Dream: Volume 15 (https://www.nxtbook.com/thevillages/TheVillages/ContinuingTheDream_Vol15/index.php)

This is worth repeating for those that don’t read ALL posts before offering an opinion!

[Regorp]

Three pitch and putt courses south of 44. These courses are the last to get booked which is a clear indicator that they are least desirable for home owners. This activity of building non-desirable pitch and putt courses south of 44 continues to put pressure on executive courses north of 44. How do we stop this bad behavior? I sent a mail to villages.com but wonder if there is a better way.

Dan

Being a non golfer, I prefer the simple putting courses like at Ezell. No pressure but lots of fun and no shoulder/muscle injuries.

[quietpine]

It would be interesting to see actual usage for ALL executive courses. The Villages has this data. There might be some favorites or close to the south side courses that seem crowded but there are probably as many in less easily accessible areas that are under utilized. The intent might be to cause people to travel a little to a second or third choice so all courses are fairly used. Just a thought.

[JMintzer]

I don’t know why they built Richmond as a pitch & putt instead of as an executive. It is 18 holes and the total length is about 1300 yards. You could easily put a nine hole executive on the piece of land.

"Easily"? I doubt it. You'd need much more land due to the longer shots taken on most Executive courses (this included good shots and errant shots)...

[JMintzer]

Waste of resources. Executive courses from green tees are the same thing as pitch putt

Maybe from some of the front tees, but certainly not from the back tees...

[JMintzer]

Let’s cut to the chase. It is a fact that the pitch and putt courses book last, thus they are the least desirable courses to play. Why? It is a fact that 190 yd tee shots are harder than 90 yd tee shots. Contrary to what others may imply. People want to play courses that offer challenges. If you are ok with pitch and putt courses. Or if you are ok with people south of 44 driving north to play then please push back on my post. Otherwise, I am simply asking if there are ways to help influence the developers to build what home owners want.

You do know that they are currently building and have plans for 5 more executive courses South of 44, don't you?

[JMintzer]

How did you arrive at the conclusion that they are the last to be booked? What was your source of info?

All you need do is look at the available t-tims.

Even when all of the Executive courses are booked, you can easily find t-times on the pitch & putts...

[larcha]

You make a very valid point. Pitch and putt and the putting course at the First Responders recreation center should be in a separate category. Playing there should not affect points for executive golf play. It also should not be counted as "holes of golf" when advertising the number of golf holes available in The Villages.

[jimjamuser]

Three pitch and putt courses south of 44. These courses are the last to get booked which is a clear indicator that they are least desirable for home owners. This activity of building non-desirable pitch and putt courses south of 44 continues to put pressure on executive courses north of 44. How do we stop this bad behavior? I sent a mail to villages.com but wonder if there is a better way.

Dan
Basically, you don't stop it. The idea is that residents south of 44 are going to trend toward the younger range of retired seniors - like in their 50s. These younger folks don't want to WASTE the time going to a 18 hole longer type course. They realize that the longer course is BORING and of LITTLE exercise value so they would rather play the pitch and putt, which gives them the skilled shots and clubs while eliminating the driver and the 2 or whatever iron. And they may still have time to go to a weight room or run on a track for REAL EXERCISE.
...... THERE ARE many other advantages of pitch and putt.....starting with less BACK pain and injuries, which is a BIG bugaboo for the over-50 crowd that wants to pace themselves and avoid injury so that they can still be relatively PAIN free and "running, jumping, and playing" well into their 80s and up.
.......Pitch and Putt is less expensive than the alternative and leaves money left over to buy that antique vehicle that they always desired.
........Pitch and Putt is less frustrating and can be played less competitively (if desired) vs the longer alternative.
.........Pitch and Putt leaves more time at the POOL so they can work on their TAN and show off to their northern friends.
......Pitch and Putt has fewer heart attacks during the HEAT of the summer than the alternative.
.......Pitch and Putt has less grass area, therefore NEEDS less fertilizer that can run off into the close by lakes and pollute them. Also, there is the obvious need for less water, which helps keep the cost of water DOWN and helps out with the resident's budget.
........I may have missed a few others ?

[RayAmb]

If you live south of 44 get some championship courses. They were to be built . .?.
North courses are packed and your driving prices up. What’s wrong with you?

[Irish4243]

You have to consider the hazards of putting an executive course that close to the freeway. The fairways are a lot longer on an Executive course and you really have to belt that ball out there to get to the green. If that ball went awry you might hit someone on the freeway accidently. So in lieu of putting up great big nets to protect the freeway drivers the developer gets to save land and build more houses.

When they start developing the land farther away from the freeway I'm sure they will add more executive courses south of 44.

They built Southern Oaks next to the turnpike. You could hit any club and hit a car on the turnpike.

[jimkerr]

Three pitch and putt courses south of 44. These courses are the last to get booked which is a clear indicator that they are least desirable for home owners. This activity of building non-desirable pitch and putt courses south of 44 continues to put pressure on executive courses north of 44. How do we stop this bad behavior? I sent a mail to villages.com but wonder if there is a better way.

Dan

Definitely not undesirable. They are always packed. The Villages is now building the things Gen X wants.

[MSchad]

Is there parking for cars at all these pitch and putt courses.?

How many 9 hole executives have parking for cars, other than the ones south of 44? This is a golf cart community.

[photo1902]

They built Southern Oaks next to the turnpike. You could hit any club and hit a car on the turnpike.
Complete BS

[Samcat13]

You'll Need to go to the Main office wherever that is and protest. I'll sure you'll can over power the security guards.

[justjim]

Have you actually tried to get a t time at Richmond? It’s is just as difficult to get a t time as other executive course. i know some people don’t like sarasota either because it’s pretty easy. Marsh Bend needs to get cleaned up to take some pressure off Richmond.
Sarasota is not that “easy” from the black tees. I don’t see many using the oversize holes.

[golfing eagles]

I platy both Ex. & P/P. I enjoy both. Are you a golf elitists? There are levels of gofers, get used to it.

I would hardly call anyone who wants less PNP in favor of more Exec courses "a golf elitist":1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[golfing eagles]

You have to consider the hazards of putting an executive course that close to the freeway. The fairways are a lot longer on an Executive course and you really have to belt that ball out there to get to the green. If that ball went awry you might hit someone on the freeway accidently. So in lieu of putting up great big nets to protect the freeway drivers the developer gets to save land and build more houses.

When they start developing the land farther away from the freeway I'm sure they will add more executive courses south of 44.

Really "belt the ball out there" to get to the green on an exec??? Now that's the funniest comment of the day!:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Papa_lecki]

They built Southern Oaks next to the turnpike. You could hit any club and hit a car on the turnpike.

They were reviewing the design of Southern Oaks, and the FLA DOT was fine with errant golf balls landing on the windshield of trucks and cars do 75 MPH.

[Papa_lecki]

You have to consider the hazards of putting an executive course that close to the freeway. The fairways are a lot longer on an Executive course and you really have to belt that ball out there to get to the green. If that ball went awry you might hit someone on the freeway accidently. So in lieu of putting up great big nets to protect the freeway drivers the developer gets to save land and build more houses.

When they start developing the land farther away from the freeway I'm sure they will add more executive courses south of 44.

This is the EXACT opposite…. More executives are close to the turnpike or highways so they dont have to put houses near there.

I bet 10% of the residents of The Villages can hit ANY club in their bag more than 200 yards.
So a 130 yard hole, you only need a 70 yard buffer to any road.

[golfing eagles]

They built Southern Oaks next to the turnpike. You could hit any club and hit a car on the turnpike.

Complete BS

Absolutely correct. I could probably hit the turnpike, but I'd have to aim directly for it and hit it at least 280. It's a lot further away than it looks.

[golfing eagles]

They were reviewing the design of Southern Oaks, and the FLA DOT was fine with errant golf balls landing on the windshield of trucks and cars do 75 MPH.

Uh huh, yeah, right---sure they were.

[golfing eagles]

This is the EXACT opposite…. More executives are close to the turnpike or highways so they dont have to put houses near there.

I bet 10% of the residents of The Villages can hit ANY club in their bag more than 200 yards.
So a 130 yard hole, you only need a 70 yard buffer to any road.

Agree---and those of us who can hit it much longer are highly unlikely to hit the turnpike. Having played Southern Oaks at least 20 times, it's pretty hard to hit it out of bounds, and from there you have 150-250 yds until you could hit the roadway. Not going to happen.

[Sorrento19]

When you bought your home were you told you would have a new executive course next to your home?
I was not told that. Next time read the fine lines and you will not be surprised.

[jhoffha]

Lets see the 'Pitch & Putts' are cheaper to create, run and smaller so more homes can be built. So what about all this is confusing. The family wants as much $$ as they can get.

[Papa_lecki]

Lets see the 'Pitch & Putts' are cheaper to create, run and smaller so more homes can be built. So what about all this is confusing. The family wants as much $$ as they can get.

Isn’t maximizing profit, literally, the purpose of operating a business?

[MSchad]

Lets see the 'Pitch & Putts' are cheaper to create, run and smaller so more homes can be built. So what about all this is confusing. The family wants as much $$ as they can get.
Here a year and already anti developer. Why do people move here because of what the developer has created, what this place has to offer, and then start bitching about it/them?

[easydog]

Pitch and Putt courses offer a chance for people to play golf who would not otherwise play. Working at MarshView P&P ... I see it everyday. But I also see avid golfers who take the short game seriously and work to perfect their chipping/pitching and putting.
Yes... we need more courses.... period. All courses Jan - Apr are very busy.

There a number of course planned south of Monarch Grove down toward Eastpark town center .... houses are the priority.

[Papa_lecki]

Agree---and those of us who can hit it much longer are highly unlikely to hit the turnpike. Having played Southern Oaks at least 20 times, it's pretty hard to hit it out of bounds, and from there you have 150-250 yds until you could hit the roadway. Not going to happen.

Exactly, if you have the club head speed to hit the ball 250, you have a good swing, and the ball is in the fairway.

[BrianL99]

Three new championship courses, (two 18’s and one 27), six executives, one additional pitch and putt and a golf academy.

Continuing The Dream: Volume 15 (https://www.nxtbook.com/thevillages/TheVillages/ContinuingTheDream_Vol15/index.php)


Please don't hold your breathe while you're waiting for them.

[Jack5]

Me and my wife love the Pitch n Putt courses. I hope they do build more of them. Most of my friends that play also have really enjoyed playing them, and the fact that its easy to get tee times makes them even better in my opinion.

[BrianL99]

Also, there is the obvious need for less water, which helps keep the cost of water DOWN and helps out with the resident's budget.
........I may have missed a few others ?

... or speculated beyond reason.

With respect to water:

Golf Course Irrigation:

North of CR 466, golf courses are irrigated with a combination of reclaimed wastewater, storm water runoff that is collected in water retention areas, and groundwater (some upper Floridan and some Lower Floridan, depending on the specific course).
South of CR 466 all golf courses are irrigated with a combination of reclaimed wastewater and lower Floridan groundwater.

(Village Community Development Districts (https://www.districtgov.org/departments/utilities/irrigation.aspx#:~:text=Golf%20Course%20Irrigation %3A&text=South%20of%20CR%20466%20all,wastewater%20and% 20lower%20Floridan%20groundwater).)

If they can't get rid of the reclaimed wastewater by watering the golf courses, what are they going to do with it?

[JMintzer]

Basically, you don't stop it. The idea is that residents south of 44 are going to trend toward the younger range of retired seniors - like in their 50s. These younger folks don't want to WASTE the time going to a 18 hole longer type course. They realize that the longer course is BORING and of LITTLE exercise value so they would rather play the pitch and putt, which gives them the skilled shots and clubs while eliminating the driver and the 2 or whatever iron. And they may still have time to go to a weight room or run on a track for REAL EXERCISE.
...... THERE ARE many other advantages of pitch and putt.....starting with less BACK pain and injuries, which is a BIG bugaboo for the over-50 crowd that wants to pace themselves and avoid injury so that they can still be relatively PAIN free and "running, jumping, and playing" well into their 80s and up.
.......Pitch and Putt is less expensive than the alternative and leaves money left over to buy that antique vehicle that they always desired.
........Pitch and Putt is less frustrating and can be played less competitively (if desired) vs the longer alternative.
.........Pitch and Putt leaves more time at the POOL so they can work on their TAN and show off to their northern friends.
......Pitch and Putt has fewer heart attacks during the HEAT of the summer than the alternative.
.......Pitch and Putt has less grass area, therefore NEEDS less fertilizer that can run off into the close by lakes and pollute them. Also, there is the obvious need for less water, which helps keep the cost of water DOWN and helps out with the resident's budget.
........I may have missed a few others ?

Horse hockey! They are building 5-6 more Executive and 3 more Championship courses below 44.

To your other points... You know nothing about golf. Your comment that to play the pitch and putts, one must give up their "driver and the 2-iron" proves that. In reality, you would have to give up 9-10 of your (14) clubs to play.

Nor do you know anything about what "younger folks" want to do... When I play golf when I'm in MD, if I'm not in my usual 4-some, I'm ALWAYS playing with a 20-30 something kid...

My son in law is a golf fanatic and he's 35. He can't wait to visit next month so we can play golf... My wife thought golf was "boring" until she started playing. Now, she understands the skill and technique that goes into playing and she'll sit and watch a tournament on TV (when the weather is bad and we can't be outside playing golf or pickleball)... I suggest you actually try it. Maybe you'll learn something...

According to you:

Pickleball is bad... Too many injuries...
Golf is bad... Too many injuries (even though I regularly play with men in their 80's who can often kick my butt!)

I guess your solution is an e-bike, which gives minimal exercise and can get you killed...

All that grass on a golf course helps clear that dreaded CO2 you keep complaining about... The water used is reclaimed. The same water used in your sprinkler system...

[JMintzer]

They built Southern Oaks next to the turnpike. You could hit any club and hit a car on the turnpike.

Maybe if you hit sideways off the tee and aimed at the turnpike, you "MIGHT" hit it...

[JMintzer]

Definitely not undesirable. They are always packed. The Villages is now building the things Gen X wants.

No they're not packed. When I was down 2 weeks ago, It was difficult to get on the executive courses, but there were plenty of t-times available at the pitch & putts...

[JMintzer]

How many 9 hole executives have parking for cars, other than the ones south of 44? This is a golf cart community.

Many of them... And many are next to a rec center or pool, so you can park there...

[JMintzer]

Have you actually tried to get a t time at Richmond? It’s is just as difficult to get a t time as other executive course. i know some people don’t like sarasota either because it’s pretty easy. Marsh Bend needs to get cleaned up to take some pressure off Richmond.

Richmond is the "shiny new toy" that everyone wants to try...

I just looked a Richmond t-times for tomorrow...

I can book a time for 2 people, starting at 7:30am, pretty much all day long. It does get a bit crowded around 10:30-11:00, but times are still available...

[JMintzer]

You make a very valid point. Pitch and putt and the putting course at the First Responders recreation center should be in a separate category. Playing there should not affect points for executive golf play. It also should not be counted as "holes of golf" when advertising the number of golf holes available in The Villages.

Agree on the point issue...

[JMintzer]

Agree---and those of us who can hit it much longer are highly unlikely to hit the turnpike. Having played Southern Oaks at least 20 times, it's pretty hard to hit it out of bounds, and from there you have 150-250 yds until you could hit the roadway. Not going to happen.

I've done it... :o

Yanked one left and it bounced of a berm and rolled about 10 yds OOB...

[JMintzer]

Exactly, if you have the club head speed to hit the ball 250, you have a good swing, and the ball is in the fairway.

One would think...:grumpy:

I remember playing in a charity tournament, years ago, with a former B'More Orioles outfielder. He could hit the ball 280-300, but we NEVER knew where it was going to go... :1rotfl:

It was my home course, so I knew it well. We all hit first, trying to make sure we had one "in play" before he unloaded. Sometimes he helped us, sometimes... Well we're still waiting for those balls to come back to earth...

I remember the first hole, a dogleg right, forest on the right, to a blind green. The proper shot was straight along the tree line, anywhere from 200-250 yds.

Once we had that shot, he teed it up and asked, "Anyone ever go over the trees?"

I replied, "Well, not on purpose!" He laughed and said let's give it a go!"

He launched one, over the trees, directly in line with the green. I told him, "If it clears the trees, it could be amazing!"

We drove down and there was his ball, 10 feet from the pin. Of course, we all missed the eagle putt... D'oh!

[golfing eagles]

Please don't hold your breathe while you're waiting for them.

Maybe not hold your breath, but you can play Southern Oaks and look across the turnpike and see that they are under construction. Last I heard, one was due to open later this year.

[golfing eagles]

Exactly, if you have the club head speed to hit the ball 250, you have a good swing, and the ball is in the fairway.

Well, maybe not in the fairway, but certainly not 200 yards off line

[JMintzer]

Maybe not hold your breath, but you can play Southern Oaks and look across the turnpike and see that they are under construction. Last I heard, one was due to open later this year.

The Villages - Florida's Friendliest Active Adult 55+ Retirement Community (https://www.thevillages.com/whatsnew/continuing-the-dream/the-future-of-golf)

[Papa_lecki]

One would think...:grumpy:

I remember playing in a charity tournament, years ago, with a former B'More Orioles outfielder. He could hit the ball 280-300, but we NEVER knew where it was going to go... :1rotfl:

It was my home course, so I knew it well. We all hit first, trying to make sure we had one "in play" before he unloaded. Sometimes he helped us, sometimes... Well we're still waiting for those balls to come back to earth...

I remember the first hole, a dogleg right, forest on the right, to a blind green. The proper shot was straight along the tree line, anywhere from 200-250 yds.

Once we had that shot, he teed it up and asked, "Anyone ever go over the trees?"

I replied, "Well, not on purpose!" He laughed and said let's give it a go!"

He launched one, over the trees, directly in line with the green. I told him, "If it clears the trees, it could be amazing!"

We drove down and there was his ball, 10 feet from the pin. Of course, we all missed the eagle putt... D'oh!

Something similar happened to me golfing with a former NFL player. One time, the athleticism aligned, and he drove the green on a par 4, the rest of the day, all over the place.

[jabacon6669]

Sad to think that it's now all about the developer maximizing his dollar. The developer did a nice job laying out the championship courses further north, 27 holes, lined with homes. They look great. Championship courses are in short supply in the new areas. The focus has clearly changed.

[rustyp]

You make a very valid point. Pitch and putt and the putting course at the First Responders recreation center should be in a separate category. Playing there should not affect points for executive golf play. It also should not be counted as "holes of golf" when advertising the number of golf holes available in The Villages.

First Responders has only a putting course no pitch and putt. There is no reservation system for putt courses. First come first serve. Nothing to do with the point system also.

[HJBeck]

My wife and I enjoy the pitch and putt golf courses. Helps build short game skills. Haven’t noticed that they are the last to get filled. Maybe too much walking for some people. ??

[Bogie Shooter]

Sad to think that it's now all about the developer maximizing his dollar. The developer did a nice job laying out the championship courses further north, 27 holes, lined with homes. They look great. Championship courses are in short supply in the new areas. The focus has clearly changed.

Look at post #114………I see 4 champs. All within close proximity.

[sianagers@att.net]

Ok so my hubby and I LOVE the pitch and putt. Why ? Because we work still and moved near my folks because we love them! I wanted to take up golf since it’s my parents love. Marsh pitch and putt allows us to “play with them “ it’s really the only course you would want many of us on and all of my points (which aren’t many lol) are used here. I am sure if you’ve seen me you would be praising God I was NOT on your courses! I am pretty confident other novices feel the same ! Golf etiquette is pretty strict if you had us trying to play the executive courses too soon you would be posting about that instead 🤣🙃🤗

[JMintzer]

Sad to think that it's now all about the developer maximizing his dollar. The developer did a nice job laying out the championship courses further north, 27 holes, lined with homes. They look great. Championship courses are in short supply in the new areas. The focus has clearly changed.

They are in the process of building or the planning stages of three more in the Southern areas... The focus is no different...

[Altavia]

Please don't hold your breathe while you're waiting for them.

Take a drive down Warm Springs and 470 initial land prep is underway as far as the eye can see. There's evidence everything on this map has started.

It's a little mind boggling to see the scope and rate of progress. Many of the new courses started construction six months ago.

[PaPaLarry]

Thankyou

[Marathon Man]

Three pitch and putt courses south of 44. These courses are the last to get booked which is a clear indicator that they are least desirable for home owners. This activity of building non-desirable pitch and putt courses south of 44 continues to put pressure on executive courses north of 44. How do we stop this bad behavior? I sent a mail to villages.com but wonder if there is a better way.

Dan

How do we get people to stop thinking that they are in charge of what a private business decides to do? How do we get people to realize that if they are no longer unhappy with the community in which they live, that they should consider doing the only thing that they have actual control over?

[golfing eagles]

How do we get people to stop thinking that they are in charge of what a private business decides to do? How do we get people to realize that if they are no longer unhappy with the community in which they live, that they should consider doing the only thing that they have actual control over?

Much easier for them to whine on this site.

[MSGirl]

I don’t know why they built Richmond as a pitch & putt instead of as an executive. It is 18 holes and the total length is about 1300 yards. You could easily put a nine hole executive on the piece of land.

Less expensive

[Notsocrates]

Three pitch and putt courses south of 44. These courses are the last to get booked which is a clear indicator that they are least desirable for home owners. This activity of building non-desirable pitch and putt courses south of 44 continues to put pressure on executive courses north of 44. How do we stop this bad behavior? I sent a mail to
Villages.com but wonder if there is a better way.

Dan

This reminds me of the New York Times writer in 1972 who didn't understand how Nixon got elected because no one she knew voted for him.
Speak for yourself OP, and don't presume.
P&P are great.

[Gatorgreen]

Basically, you don't stop it. The idea is that residents south of 44 are going to trend toward the younger range of retired seniors - like in their 50s. These younger folks don't want to WASTE the time going to a 18 hole longer type course. They realize that the longer course is BORING and of LITTLE exercise value so they would rather play the pitch and putt, which gives them the skilled shots and clubs while eliminating the driver and the 2 or whatever iron. And they may still have time to go to a weight room or run on a track for REAL EXERCISE.
...... THERE ARE many other advantages of pitch and putt.....starting with less BACK pain and injuries, which is a BIG bugaboo for the over-50 crowd that wants to pace themselves and avoid injury so that they can still be relatively PAIN free and "running, jumping, and playing" well into their 80s and up.
.......Pitch and Putt is less expensive than the alternative and leaves money left over to buy that antique vehicle that they always desired.
........Pitch and Putt is less frustrating and can be played less competitively (if desired) vs the longer alternative.
.........Pitch and Putt leaves more time at the POOL so they can work on their TAN and show off to their northern friends.
......Pitch and Putt has fewer heart attacks during the HEAT of the summer than the alternative.
.......Pitch and Putt has less grass area, therefore NEEDS less fertilizer that can run off into the close by lakes and pollute them. Also, there is the obvious need for less water, which helps keep the cost of water DOWN and helps out with the resident's budget.
........I may have missed a few others ?

Exactly

[rsimpson]

The least they could do is treat the Pitch and Putt courses as a separate category in the reservation system like they do with Executive and Championship courses. I would actually play them if it did not add a point to my Executive play totals. It is a point that impacts getting group reservations in the system and should not be considered as having played an Executive course.

Excellent Comment on points system and Pitch & Putts. In addition, I wish there was a way to 'require' new golfers to play Pitch & Putts several times before allowing play on Executives. Then a similar requirement (or HDCP) before playing Championships. I am seeing lot's of slow play and course (unrepaired) damage from new players.
On Origianl Post - More Executives are needs South of Intrerstate too. We don't need three or four Championships down here yet. (East Point area)

[jimjamuser]

Yep…. If people don’t stand up they will go to virtual golf. What could be cheaper? I have contacted them, is there batter suggestions?
I would PREFER virtual golf because then there would be zero fertilizer runoff and zero lake nutrient pollution. And there would be zero gas engine pollution from the polluting grass-cutting equipment.

[BrianL99]

I would PREFER virtual golf because then there would be zero fertilizer runoff and zero lake nutrient pollution. And there would be zero gas engine pollution from the polluting grass-cutting equipment.

All the land dedicated to golf courses, could then become non-polluting homes, with chemical fertilizer applied by non-professionals, the grass cut by magic.

Good thinking.

[golfing eagles]

I would PREFER virtual golf because then there would be zero fertilizer runoff and zero lake nutrient pollution. And there would be zero gas engine pollution from the polluting grass-cutting equipment.

Or alternatively, we could all go back to living like we did 5,000 years ago. Does that statement also hold true for virtual football, virtual soccer, virtual baseball, and my favorite, virtual polo? Personally, I'd be in favor of virtual posters (for some)

[Jimjane]

It is my understanding that to meet the requirements of the planned development as well as the respected counties comprehensive development plan a certain amount of open space is required based on the density requested. Seems to me if the required open space can not support an executive course the developer is creating an amenity that will accommodate the space that can be enjoyed by the residents. I’m personally happy to see the effort the planners and developers make to ensure the beautiful amenities that are offered. I’ve never in my years found a way to please everyone all the time. And it seems that’s becoming more evident in todays world. Lastly I have friends that I’ve met though the years of being here that can no longer play the championship courses so they moved on to the executives. They move to the friendly tees as they grow older. Now they enjoy the pitch and putt as well as the putting areas so they can stay active in golf. I personally feel this is what our community is all about. I hope you feel the same way because we all are heading in the same direction.

[DonH57]

Exactly

This time of year I've witnessed a lot more slow play, unrepaired ball marks, bunker rakes laying in the grass, and unfilled divots, the groups behind hitting up before the other group leaves the green. A requirement to attend the Good Golf Class prior to being able to make a tee time would help but, maybe not. Kind of like asking the entitled to drive a golf cart like they have some sense.:22yikes:

[jimjamuser]

Horse hockey! They are building 5-6 more Executive and 3 more Championship courses below 44.

To your other points... You know nothing about golf. Your comment that to play the pitch and putts, one must give up their "driver and the 2-iron" proves that. In reality, you would have to give up 9-10 of your (14) clubs to play.

Nor do you know anything about what "younger folks" want to do... When I play golf when I'm in MD, if I'm not in my usual 4-some, I'm ALWAYS playing with a 20-30 something kid...

My son in law is a golf fanatic and he's 35. He can't wait to visit next month so we can play golf... My wife thought golf was "boring" until she started playing. Now, she understands the skill and technique that goes into playing and she'll sit and watch a tournament on TV (when the weather is bad and we can't be outside playing golf or pickleball)... I suggest you actually try it. Maybe you'll learn something...

According to you:

Pickleball is bad... Too many injuries...
Golf is bad... Too many injuries (even though I regularly play with men in their 80's who can often kick my butt!)

I guess your solution is an e-bike, which gives minimal exercise and can get you killed...

All that grass on a golf course helps clear that dreaded CO2 you keep complaining about... The water used is reclaimed. The same water used in your sprinkler system...
Actually....thanks I forgot to mention another problem with the larger Golf courses - that they are grass and grass does NOT compare well to TREES when it comes to removing CO2. And MANY, many TREES must get cut down to accommodate a few golfers driving polluting golf carts around when they should be walking. Bad for the planet, but golfers typically care only about themselves, so no surprise there.
..........And incidentally every year the world's forests decrease especially in the Amazon Rain (soon to be desert). If golfers really cared about their next generation, they would require that 5% of the cost of green fees were sent to an organization for preserving the Amazon and other forests. The US forests are all dry and burning as part of Global Warming, which most golfers are quick to ignore. I could say you folks are only "fore" yourselfs, but I won't.

[Altavia]

Actually....thanks I forgot to mention another problem with the larger Golf courses - that they are grass and grass does NOT compare well to TREES when it comes to removing CO2. And MANY, many TREES must get cut down to accommodate a few golfers driving polluting golf carts around when they should be walking. Bad for the planet, but golfers typically care only about themselves, so no surprise there.
......

Most of the land south of the Turnpike is former ranch lan.

They try to preserve the groves of trees that were clumped together on the ranch land.

With the addition of the many ponds and landscaping, you see more diverse wildlife, especially birds, which are the "canary" for an improving environment.

Bald Eagles and even otters are now common sight fishing the ponds where cattle formerly grazed.

And keep in mind the golf courses are also part of the storm water management system.

[golfing eagles]

Actually....thanks I forgot to mention another problem with the larger Golf courses - that they are grass and grass does NOT compare well to TREES when it comes to removing CO2. And MANY, many TREES must get cut down to accommodate a few golfers driving polluting golf carts around when they should be walking. Bad for the planet, but golfers typically care only about themselves, so no surprise there.
..........And incidentally every year the world's forests decrease especially in the Amazon Rain (soon to be desert). If golfers really cared about their next generation, they would require that 5% of the cost of green fees were sent to an organization for preserving the Amazon and other forests. The US forests are all dry and burning as part of Global Warming, which most golfers are quick to ignore. I could say you folks are only "fore" yourselfs, but I won't.

Do you have a legitimate source for that assertion??? After all both trees and grass utilize the same basic formula for photosynthesis----6CO2 + 6 H2O = C6H12O6(glucose) + 6O2, and the surface area of grass blades equals or exceeds that of "trees"

[Kenswing]

I would PREFER virtual golf because then there would be zero fertilizer runoff and zero lake nutrient pollution. And there would be zero gas engine pollution from the polluting grass-cutting equipment.

And he’s allowed to hijack yet another thread.

[golfing eagles]

And he’s allowed to hijack yet another thread.

You mean Jimmy One Note?????:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Normal]

I love the Pitch and Putts, they are so well done. Yes, it makes it sometimes difficult to book, but the courses are worth the wait. If you don’t care for them, the snowbirds will be gone in a couple of months, then there will be walk ons on every course again.

[jimjamuser]

Take a drive down Warm Springs and 470 initial land prep is underway as far as the eye can see. There's evidence everything on this map has started.

It's a little mind boggling to see the scope and rate of progress. Many of the new courses started construction six months ago.
"Land prep is underway".........that may sound wonderful to a zealous golfer, but I hear it as, " cutting down more trees and having no conscience about the environment or future generations. Forget Pitch and Putt........bigger is ALWAYS BETTER........that is the American frontier motto.......tear up the trees and environment if they get in the WAY of so-called PROGRESS.

And every year you can read about the HOLE in the middle of the Gulf of Mexico that is CAUSED by excess fertilizer and other nutrient runoff. Also, red tide is likely caused by the same runoff. And of course, the Florida MANATEE is soon to be put on the endangered species list because of habitat loss and excess human pollution destroying the seagrass that they eat. Also, think about those CONSEQUENCES (like EXTINCTION is NOT reversible) .........think about those every time you gleefully yell FORE. Maybe the Manatees and the environment should be "fore" warned. And your descendants that will only see a MANATEE STUFFED and in a MUSEUM.

[golfing eagles]

"Land prep is underway".........that may sound wonderful to a zealous golfer, but I hear it as, " cutting down more trees and having no conscience about the environment or future generations. Forget Pitch and Putt........bigger is ALWAYS BETTER........that is the American frontier motto.......tear up the trees and environment if they get in the WAY of so-called PROGRESS.

And every year you can read about the HOLE in the middle of the Gulf of Mexico that is CAUSED by excess fertilizer and other nutrient runoff. Also, red tide is likely caused by the same runoff. And of course, the Florida MANATEE is soon to be put on the endangered species list because of habitat loss and excess human pollution destroying the seagrass that they eat. Also, think about those CONSEQUENCES (like EXTINCTION is NOT reversible) .........think about those every time you gleefully yell FORE. Maybe the Manatees and the environment should be "fore" warned. And your descendants that will only see a MANATEE STUFFED and in a MUSEUM.

First of all, nobody "gleefully" yells "fore", it is usually the result of a pretty bad shot or perhaps bad judgement when it was hit.

Secondly, and here's a news flash, every century dozens of species go extinct and dozens of new species emerge. Just think what your cow fart, I mean burp scenario would be like if we still had mastodons and wooly mammoths:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Extinction and speciation are dynamic processes that have flourished for 3-4 billion years. Do you think we have the wisdom to do better than nature?

[jimjamuser]

Or alternatively, we could all go back to living like we did 5,000 years ago. Does that statement also hold true for virtual football, virtual soccer, virtual baseball, and my favorite, virtual polo? Personally, I'd be in favor of virtual posters (for some)
I have to admit that even when I rarely agree with what you say, you do have the capability for some very humorous posts. Keep up that very POSITIVE work.

[golfing eagles]

I have to admit that even when I rarely agree with what you say, you do have the capability for some very humorous posts. Keep up that very POSITIVE work.

I'll try. But you must admit it isn't easy :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Bogie Shooter]

"Land prep is underway".........that may sound wonderful to a zealous golfer, but I hear it as, " cutting down more trees and having no conscience about the environment or future generations. Forget Pitch and Putt........bigger is ALWAYS BETTER........that is the American frontier motto.......tear up the trees and environment if they get in the WAY of so-called PROGRESS.

And every year you can read about the HOLE in the middle of the Gulf of Mexico that is CAUSED by excess fertilizer and other nutrient runoff. Also, red tide is likely caused by the same runoff. And of course, the Florida MANATEE is soon to be put on the endangered species list because of habitat loss and excess human pollution destroying the seagrass that they eat. Also, think about those CONSEQUENCES (like EXTINCTION is NOT reversible) .........think about those every time you gleefully yell FORE. Maybe the Manatees and the environment should be "fore" warned. And your descendants that will only see a MANATEE STUFFED and in a MUSEUM.

Do you have any thought on the correct way to prepare Sauerkraut?:shrug:

[golfing eagles]

Do you have any thought on the correct way to prepare Sauerkraut?:shrug:

I don't know if he does or doesn't, but I think he prefers to serve it on a re-used paper plate.:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[jimjamuser]

All the land dedicated to golf courses, could then become non-polluting homes, with chemical fertilizer applied by non-professionals, the grass cut by magic.

Good thinking.
I "walk the walk" I cut my own grass with a relatively non-polluting ELECTRIC lawn mower. And I use small amounts of natural fertilizer and water by hand only sparingly and avoid all the overwatering and maintenance hassles of those dumb pop-up sprinkler heads. And I PLANTED trees 5 years ago. Love my trees! Shade in the summer.
......And I play sports, not golf, which is just a BIG pool table with huge social and environmental costs and little return in healthful exercise. Also to play the bigger courses other than Pitch and Putt, you have to take a driver and wrack and whack your knees, hips, and back in an unnatural motion. With Pitch and Putt, you avoid that extreme golf swing.

[jimjamuser]

This time of year I've witnessed a lot more slow play, unrepaired ball marks, bunker rakes laying in the grass, and unfilled divots, the groups behind hitting up before the other group leaves the green. A requirement to attend the Good Golf Class prior to being able to make a tee time would help but, maybe not. Kind of like asking the entitled to drive a golf cart like they have some sense.:22yikes:
I do agree that if you MUST play golf, you should enjoy it in an unhurried manner. If you want to be pushy and tightly wired - you need to take up being a day-trading stock trader. Or start the morning taking "doggy downers".

[jimjamuser]

Most of the land south of the Turnpike is former ranch lan.

They try to preserve the groves of trees that were clumped together on the ranch land.

With the addition of the many ponds and landscaping, you see more diverse wildlife, especially birds, which are the "canary" for an improving environment.

Bald Eagles and even otters are now common sight fishing the ponds where cattle formerly grazed.

And keep in mind the golf courses are also part of the storm water management system.
There is some TRUTH to what you say. It is ALWAYS possible to make a case for something, which sometimes is a rationalization. I know for a fact that pheasant and quail eggs are thin-shelled and NOT hatching due to excessive pesticides used in the midwest farms. Now whether the golf courses have excessive pesticide use......I do NOT know for sure, but I suspect that they do. I have seen workers spray some chemical alongside the multi use paths and I watched 2 wild large black land turtles dying from it.

[jimjamuser]

First of all, nobody "gleefully" yells "fore", it is usually the result of a pretty bad shot or perhaps bad judgement when it was hit.

Secondly, and here's a news flash, every century dozens of species go extinct and dozens of new species emerge. Just think what your cow fart, I mean burp scenario would be like if we still had mastodons and wooly mammoths:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Extinction and speciation are dynamic processes that have flourished for 3-4 billion years. Do you think we have the wisdom to do better than nature?
The "gleefully yelling FORE" was an exaggeration for EFFECT with a little HUMOROUS overtones thrown in for good measure. It IS not unusual for writers to "exaggerate for effect". Other posters have done that in other posts. Why would my humor be bad, but your humor is good? I don't see the logic?

[jimjamuser]

First of all, nobody "gleefully" yells "fore", it is usually the result of a pretty bad shot or perhaps bad judgement when it was hit.

Secondly, and here's a news flash, every century dozens of species go extinct and dozens of new species emerge. Just think what your cow fart, I mean burp scenario would be like if we still had mastodons and wooly mammoths:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Extinction and speciation are dynamic processes that have flourished for 3-4 billion years. Do you think we have the wisdom to do better than nature?
I am NOT trying to be insulting when I say this, BUT that last sentence has the term "RATIONALIZATION" written all over it.

[jimjamuser]

I don't know if he does or doesn't, but I think he prefers to serve it on a re-used paper plate.:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:
Good memory.....I do sometimes wash my paper plates and reuse them once more. Just a thing that I do.

[rsmurano]

Be Thankful "The Morse Clan" has given you a few activities South of CR-44.
.
As you well know by now living South of CR-44 definitely does not have the number of activities as up North. Do you?
.
Perhaps your Village Sales person did not tell you everything. For some reason, they are told WHAT TO SAY and what not to MENTION.
.
People will buy South of CR-44 and do not know what they are in for.
.
Just how many Publix stores do you have to shop in in the South?
.
Might you have more than one shopping center for how many people?
.
You need to drive North to Shop, and Dine, and to a Town Square overloading them. When they were designed it was for the number of homes being developed near them. Seems the Morse Clan does not care other than selling homes for huge profits.
.
Before buying South of CR-44 do yourself a favor and talk to Real Estate Brokers not affiliated with The Villages as there are many for thier views.

I wouldn’t buy north of 44 and it’s not because of the PNP courses. You can have all of that shopping mess/crowds, golf carts sharing north Morse rd, all that traffic at each roundabout/466/441, I don’t need it or want it. When I buy from sams I have it delivered so I don’t have to go north. 466 has some nice restaurants but I take the back way to get there. It’s faster for me to go to leesburg for dinner and you get a bigger selection of restaurants with less traffic than north of 44.
I can get to both Brownwood and Sumter by golf cart (with a lot of slow cart traffic) in 30 mins so I’m not that far away

[Whitley]

You're right, since there are now more people playing Pickleball than golf, those resources should be devoted to more Pickleball facilities.

Covered with lights would be really great.

You are correct. We need to start a mass mailin to change some of the pitch n put to pickleball.

[golfing eagles]

The "gleefully yelling FORE" was an exaggeration for EFFECT with a little HUMOROUS overtones thrown in for good measure. It IS not unusual for writers to "exaggerate for effect". Other posters have done that in other posts. Why would my humor be bad, but your humor is good? I don't see the logic?

Because I'm funnier than you?:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Bealman]

Such an odd take. It's not like The Villages invented the game for selfish reasons. Pitch N Putt is an internationally recognized game.

For those of us that moved to The Villages and have no golfing experience, we're finding the PNP's to be really enjoyable and helpful to ease us into the game.

I'll bet the same people complaining about the PNP's would be REALLY complaining if they had me in from of them on an executive course holding them up as I learn what the heck I'm doing.
Agree with you completely. The supposed "professional " golfers out there would be writing posts of slow people all the time if I was out on the regular courses. Prost!

[Whitley]

How do we get people to stop thinking that they are in charge of what a private business decides to do? How do we get people to realize that if they are no longer unhappy with the community in which they live, that they should consider doing the only thing that they have actual control over?

If they were no longer unhappy they would probably stay. Nothing wrong with petitioning the owners of a "private business". We are their clients after all.

[jimjamuser]

Because I'm funnier than you?:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:
Cool......that's true.

[villager4]

The executive course are not revenue producing and take up space were homes can be built. You will not see many ,if any, new executive courses with the current management,

[golfing eagles]

The executive course are not revenue producing and take up space were homes can be built. You will not see many ,if any, new executive courses with the current management,

Kind of a strange statement given the number of courses under construction and planned.

(4 posts in 12 years and that's the one chosen?)

[Marathon Man]

Another thread that triggers those that are worried about their property values in the north. The south is the modern, new design. Better, newer, and exciting with each new addition. Those that point out that the latest retirees are looking for more than just golf are absolutely correct.

[jimjamuser]

Another thread that triggers those that are worried about their property values in the north. The south is the modern, new design. Better, newer, and exciting with each new addition. Those that point out that the latest retirees are looking for more than just golf are absolutely correct.
I agree about the golf. It is becoming passe quite quickly.

[fizzle]

Three pitch and putt courses south of 44. These courses are the last to get booked which is a clear indicator that they are least desirable for home owners. This activity of building non-desirable pitch and putt courses south of 44 continues to put pressure on executive courses north of 44. How do we stop this bad behavior? I sent a mail to villages.com but wonder if there is a better way.

Dan

Just played Richmond last week and found the greens much more challenging than any of the executive courses. Most of us need to work on our short game and walking 18 holes was an added bonus.

[BrianL99]

Another thread that triggers those that are worried about their property values in the north. The south is the modern, new design. Better, newer, and exciting with each new addition.


Gets my vote, for funniest post of the new year.

[Rainger99]

Those that point out that the latest retirees are looking for more than just golf are absolutely correct.

That may be true. Golf may not be that important for the younger people moving in down south but I have not seen a single advertisement for The Villages say “Free Walking Trails For Life.”

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

The pitch and putt courses cost less to maintain and don't have to be maintained in as good of condition as other courses. The Villages doesn't listen to anyone, They do what they want and they do what will benefit them. As long as they can offer "FREE" Golf, they will do it as inexpensively as possible.

[asianthree]

Let’s cut to the chase. It is a fact that the pitch and putt courses book last, thus they are the least desirable courses to play. Why? It is a fact that 190 yd tee shots are harder than 90 yd tee shots. Contrary to what others may imply. People want to play courses that offer challenges. If you are ok with pitch and putt courses. Or if you are ok with people south of 44 driving north to play then please push back on my post. Otherwise, I am simply asking if there are ways to help influence the developers to build what home owners want.

Just looked for exec to play tomorrow, had choices of 17 tee times, at course’s minutes from our house, to 40 minute drive

[photo1902]

Just looked for exec to play tomorrow, had choices of 17 tee times, at course’s minutes from our house, to 40 minute drive
///

[JMintzer]

Excellent Comment on points system and Pitch & Putts. In addition, I wish there was a way to 'require' new golfers to play Pitch & Putts several times before allowing play on Executives. Then a similar requirement (or HDCP) before playing Championships. I am seeing lot's of slow play and course (unrepaired) damage from new players.
On Origianl Post - More Executives are needs South of Intrerstate too. We don't need three or four Championships down here yet. (East Point area)

They are currently building at least 1-2 executives and have plans for another 2-3...

[JMintzer]

I would PREFER virtual golf because then there would be zero fertilizer runoff and zero lake nutrient pollution. And there would be zero gas engine pollution from the polluting grass-cutting equipment.

And watch the houses flood during the next big storm (that you insist we will see on an ever increasing frequency...)

The golf courses serve an important function for flood control...

[JMintzer]

I would PREFER virtual golf because then there would be zero fertilizer runoff and zero lake nutrient pollution. And there would be zero gas engine pollution from the polluting grass-cutting equipment.

Are you prepared for the MASSIVE amounts of indoor construction, to serve the THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of golfers? What about the electricity USED and heat generated in order to cool said structures?

[JMintzer]

This time of year I've witnessed a lot more slow play, unrepaired ball marks, bunker rakes laying in the grass, and unfilled divots, the groups behind hitting up before the other group leaves the green. A requirement to attend the Good Golf Class prior to being able to make a tee time would help but, maybe not. Kind of like asking the entitled to drive a golf cart like they have some sense.:22yikes:

When you have a 50% increase in population, you'll see a 50% increase in bad behavior...

[Pyperup]

There are NO executive courses south of the 44 we pay the same amenities fee???? What are they thinking? Totally not good idea and no sign up at 44 and Morse feels very much separate from the rest of The Villages. Friends do not want to buy here because of it.

[JMintzer]

Actually....thanks I forgot to mention another problem with the larger Golf courses - that they are grass and grass does NOT compare well to TREES when it comes to removing CO2. And MANY, many TREES must get cut down to accommodate a few golfers driving polluting golf carts around when they should be walking. Bad for the planet, but golfers typically care only about themselves, so no surprise there.
..........And incidentally every year the world's forests decrease especially in the Amazon Rain (soon to be desert). If golfers really cared about their next generation, they would require that 5% of the cost of green fees were sent to an organization for preserving the Amazon and other forests. The US forests are all dry and burning as part of Global Warming, which most golfers are quick to ignore. I could say you folks are only "fore" yourselfs, but I won't.

The are not cutting down many trees to build golf courses in TV. They are building them on old cow pastures...

In fact, they are bending over backwards to PRESERVE the trees they have, since they ADD to the golf course. Not only in beauty, but in making them more challenging...

If you watch the most recent "Living the Dream" regarding the new golf courses, or if you had any clue about actually playing the game or designing a golf course, you'd know that...

To your other RANDOM points... They have nothing to do with golf... Frankly, I'm surprised you didn't add "the death of the coral reefs" to your post!

[JMintzer]

"Land prep is underway".........that may sound wonderful to a zealous golfer, but I hear it as, " cutting down more trees and having no conscience about the environment or future generations. Forget Pitch and Putt........bigger is ALWAYS BETTER........that is the American frontier motto.......tear up the trees and environment if they get in the WAY of so-called PROGRESS.

That's because you don't LISTEN...

And every year you can read about the HOLE in the middle of the Gulf of Mexico that is CAUSED by excess fertilizer and other nutrient runoff. Also, red tide is likely caused by the same runoff. And of course, the Florida MANATEE is soon to be put on the endangered species list because of habitat loss and excess human pollution destroying the seagrass that they eat. Also, think about those CONSEQUENCES (like EXTINCTION is NOT reversible) .........think about those every time you gleefully yell FORE. Maybe the Manatees and the environment should be "fore" warned. And your descendants that will only see a MANATEE STUFFED and in a MUSEUM.[/QUOTE]

Now you sound like Henry Gibson, from "Laugh In"...

"What about the Buffalo?"

[JMintzer]

I "walk the walk" I cut my own grass with a relatively non-polluting ELECTRIC lawn mower. And I use small amounts of natural fertilizer and water by hand only sparingly and avoid all the overwatering and maintenance hassles of those dumb pop-up sprinkler heads. And I PLANTED trees 5 years ago. Love my trees! Shade in the summer.
......And I play sports, not golf, which is just a BIG pool table with huge social and environmental costs and little return in healthful exercise. Also to play the bigger courses other than Pitch and Putt, you have to take a driver and wrack and whack your knees, hips, and back in an unnatural motion. With Pitch and Putt, you avoid that extreme golf swing.

You really don't know a thing about golf... Nor biomechanics...

[JMintzer]

There is some TRUTH to what you say. It is ALWAYS possible to make a case for something, which sometimes is a rationalization. I know for a fact that pheasant and quail eggs are thin-shelled and NOT hatching due to excessive pesticides used in the midwest farms. Now whether the golf courses have excessive pesticide use......I do NOT know for sure, but I suspect that they do. I have seen workers spray some chemical alongside the multi use paths and I watched 2 wild large black land turtles dying from it.

https://media.tenor.com/FfeH5Xw94cAAAAAC/things-that-never-happened-jeopardy.gif

[JMintzer]

The "gleefully yelling FORE" was an exaggeration for EFFECT with a little HUMOROUS overtones thrown in for good measure. It IS not unusual for writers to "exaggerate for effect". Other posters have done that in other posts. Why would my humor be bad, but your humor is good? I don't see the logic?

Welcome to our world...

[JMintzer]

I wouldn’t buy north of 44 and it’s not because of the PNP courses. You can have all of that shopping mess/crowds, golf carts sharing north Morse rd, all that traffic at each roundabout/466/441, I don’t need it or want it. When I buy from sams I have it delivered so I don’t have to go north. 466 has some nice restaurants but I take the back way to get there. It’s faster for me to go to leesburg for dinner and you get a bigger selection of restaurants with less traffic than north of 44.
I can get to both Brownwood and Sumter by golf cart (with a lot of slow cart traffic) in 30 mins so I’m not that far away

None of what you described is true for all of "north of 44..."

You're describing "north of 466"...

And I find it ironic that you would gladly travel "all the way" to LSL when it's for something you like...

[JMintzer]

Because I'm funnier than you?:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Pretty low bar you got there... :icon_wink:

[JMintzer]

Another thread that triggers those that are worried about their property values in the north. The south is the modern, new design. Better, newer, and exciting with each new addition. Those that point out that the latest retirees are looking for more than just golf are absolutely correct.

Wut?

[JMintzer]

I agree about the golf. It is becoming passe quite quickly.

Except it's not...

Access Denied (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/26/callaway-dicks-sporting-goods-score-with-growth-of-golf.html)

[JMintzer]

The pitch and putt courses cost less to maintain and don't have to be maintained in as good of condition as other courses. The Villages doesn't listen to anyone, They do what they want and they do what will benefit them. As long as they can offer "FREE" Golf, they will do it as inexpensively as possible.

While I agree with your initial point, the fact that they are building so many executive and championship courses goes against your second point...

[JMintzer]

There are NO executive courses south of the 44 we pay the same amenities fee???? What are they thinking? Totally not good idea and no sign up at 44 and Morse feels very much separate from the rest of The Villages. Friends do not want to buy here because of it.

There are at least 5 of them...

Red Fox
Gray Fox
Lowlands
Loblolly
Longleaf

[gighilton]

Three pitch and putt courses south of 44. These courses are the last to get booked which is a clear indicator that they are least desirable for home owners. This activity of building non-desirable pitch and putt courses south of 44 continues to put pressure on executive courses north of 44. How do we stop this bad behavior? I sent a mail to villages.com but wonder if there is a better way.

Dan

"Bad Behavior", what is your problem? If this is all you can find to complain about, your shouldn't be here.

[Rainger99]

Originally Posted by Pyperup View Post
There are NO executive courses south of the 44 we pay the same amenities fee???? What are they thinking? Totally not good idea and no sign up at 44 and Morse feels very much separate from the rest of The Villages. Friends do not want to buy here because of it.

There are at least 5 of them...

Red Fox
Gray Fox
Lowlands
Loblolly
Longleaf

I think he meant there are no executive courses south of 44 and north of the Turnpike. All of the ones that you mentioned are south of 44 and south of the Turnpike.

If you live in Chitty Chatty, Bradford, Hawkins, Cason Hammock, St. Catherines, and Citrus Grove, it is difficult to get to these courses by golf cart. To get to the ones south of the Turnpike by golf cart takes a long time as you have to go up to Water Lily Bridge and then back down to the courses. This is about 10 miles depending on where you live.

If you look at a map of The Villages, it appears that every home north of 44 and every home south of the Turnpike is within a mile, or at most two miles, of an executive course. There are 13 north of 466; there are 16 between 466 and 466A; there are 6 south of 466A and north of 44; there are 0 between 44 and the Turnpike, and there are 5 south of the Turnpike.

[jimjamuser]

And watch the houses flood during the next big storm (that you insist we will see on an ever increasing frequency...)

The golf courses serve an important function for flood control...
So from that last sentence I am SUPPOSED to believe that the larger, longer than Pitch and Putt golf courses, that have had MORE trees removed for fairway grass are going to be better for flood control than the less tree REMOVAL for Pitch and Putt. Somehow I can't believe that. That would mean that the small roots of grass would prevent FLOODING better than the large roots of trees.
.........I HAVE actually removed the roots of a LARGE tree and it was much harder than the removal of the grassroots. So I LOGICALLY concluded that tree roots would RESIST water flooding better than grassroots. And in the event of a flood, the trees' leaves would help evaporate the water while the grassroots would be UNDERWATER.

[jimjamuser]

The are not cutting down many trees to build golf courses in TV. They are building them on old cow pastures...

In fact, they are bending over backwards to PRESERVE the trees they have, since they ADD to the golf course. Not only in beauty, but in making them more challenging...

If you watch the most recent "Living the Dream" regarding the new golf courses, or if you had any clue about actually playing the game or designing a golf course, you'd know that...

To your other RANDOM points... They have nothing to do with golf... Frankly, I'm surprised you didn't add "the death of the coral reefs" to your post!
My point about the world's forests was PERFECTLY valid in this thread because the main point of the thread is whether to emphasis large long golf courses or smaller Pitch and Putts. And it doesn't matter about the Villages purchasing "old cow pastures" because we are talking about what they DO with them AFTER they purchase them.........they THEN have a choice of building Pitch and Putts INSTEAD of longer courses and then using the additional acreage to then plant MORE trees and make something like a wilderness walking path or a park with lots of trees. TV Land may have enough LONG golf courses and NEED more actual NATURE available for the Villagers to USE and APPRECIATE. There is a choice and a tradeoff........for example a PARK is less expensive to MAINTAIN than a GOLF course. More people would use the PARK.

[laboutj]

This thread was 20 minutes of my life that I won't get back. Elements of 'north versus south', 'elitist golfers', 'money grubbing developer' and 'save the earth'. And nothing that anyone that has commented in this thread can change. Go out and enjoy yourselves while you still can.

[ORJohnny]

Perfect!! No need to change.

[John Mayes]

This thread was 20 minutes of my life that I won't get back. Elements of 'north versus south', 'elitist golfers', 'money grubbing developer' and 'save the earth'. And nothing that anyone that has commented in this thread can change. Go out and enjoy yourselves while you still can.

LOL!! Great advice.

[Papa_lecki]

This thread was 20 minutes of my life that I won't get back. Elements of 'north versus south', 'elitist golfers', 'money grubbing developer' and 'save the earth'. And nothing that anyone that has commented in this thread can change. Go out and enjoy yourselves while you still can.

I was thinking the same thing.

Any thread that isn’t answered after one page turns into a train wreck. I find myself coming back to TOTV much less, but I do - much the same reason people slow down for car crashes.
It’s 66 and sunny, go outside.

[Bogie Shooter]

This thread was 20 minutes of my life that I won't get back. Elements of 'north versus south', 'elitist golfers', 'money grubbing developer' and 'save the earth'. And nothing that anyone that has commented in this thread can change. Go out and enjoy yourselves while you still can.

I was thinking the same thing.

Any thread that isn’t answered after one page turns into a train wreck. I find myself coming back to TOTV much less, but I do - much the same reason people slow down for car crashes.
It’s 66 and sunny, go outside.

That sums it rather well……the end? I doubt it!

[KeithRiz]

There is one more P&P in the planning, Live Oak. just south of Monarch Grove. Laural Oak, A new executive of planned just south of that.
Also south of Laurel Oak Executive, there will be an Executive course next to the driving range and Golf Teaching Academy all next to Central Lake in Eastport.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Pyperup View Post
There are NO executive courses south of the 44 we pay the same amenities fee???? What are they thinking? Totally not good idea and no sign up at 44 and Morse feels very much separate from the rest of The Villages. Friends do not want to buy here because of it.



I think he meant there are no executive courses south of 44 and north of the Turnpike. All of the ones that you mentioned are south of 44 and south of the Turnpike.

If you live in Chitty Chatty, Bradford, Hawkins, Cason Hammock, St. Catherines, and Citrus Grove, it is difficult to get to these courses by golf cart. To get to the ones south of the Turnpike by golf cart takes a long time as you have to go up to Water Lily Bridge and then back down to the courses. This is about 10 miles depending on where you live.

If you look at a map of The Villages, it appears that every home north of 44 and every home south of the Turnpike is within a mile, or at most two miles, of an executive course. There are 13 north of 466; there are 16 between 466 and 466A; there are 6 south of 466A and north of 44; there are 0 between 44 and the Turnpike, and there are 5 south of the Turnpike.

And, if you look at that same map, you'll see that most of the houses in the villages you mentioned are built on a relatively narrow sliver of land, east of Morse, with the exception of where they built the Championship course.

There simply wasn't enough square footage to build the traditional executive courses, surrounded by homes...

[JMintzer]

So from that last sentence I am SUPPOSED to believe that the larger, longer than Pitch and Putt golf courses, that have had MORE trees removed for fairway grass are going to be better for flood control than the less tree REMOVAL for Pitch and Putt. Somehow I can't believe that. That would mean that the small roots of grass would prevent FLOODING better than the large roots of trees.
.........I HAVE actually removed the roots of a LARGE tree and it was much harder than the removal of the grassroots. So I LOGICALLY concluded that tree roots would RESIST water flooding better than grassroots. And in the event of a flood, the trees' leaves would help evaporate the water while the grassroots would be UNDERWATER.

Once again, many of these courses have been built on former COW PASTURES, which don't have a lot of trees to begin with!

And no, the blades of grass don't prevent flooding, the fairways are intentionally allowed to flood during hurricanes, so that the houses won't.

EVERYBODY knows this!

[JMintzer]

My point about the world's forests was PERFECTLY valid in this thread because the main point of the thread is whether to emphasis large long golf courses or smaller Pitch and Putts. And it doesn't matter about the Villages purchasing "old cow pastures" because we are talking about what they DO with them AFTER they purchase them.........they THEN have a choice of building Pitch and Putts INSTEAD of longer courses and then using the additional acreage to then plant MORE trees and make something like a wilderness walking path or a park with lots of trees. TV Land may have enough LONG golf courses and NEED more actual NATURE available for the Villagers to USE and APPRECIATE. There is a choice and a tradeoff........for example a PARK is less expensive to MAINTAIN than a GOLF course. More people would use the PARK.

You mean walking paths like Hogs Eye Trail, that meanders thru THE TREES that they DID NOT CUT DOWN???

Did you not read the many posts in this thread about people complaining that they were building TOO MANY PITCH AND PUTTS AND NOT ENOUGH EXECUTIVE AND CHAMPIONSHIP COURSES???

But you're right... No one wants to play on the bigger courses because golf is of no interest to the younger retirees...

A while back, my buddy and I were driving down to one of the exec courses thru March bend area and he commented that he was impressed that TV had left SO MUCH LAND UNDEVELOPED along the MMP and nearby walking trail. And that no other developer would do that...

And based on the number of golf rounds played per year in TV, no more people would use the golf courses...

[jimjamuser]

Once again, many of these courses have been built on former COW PASTURES, which don't have a lot of trees to begin with!

And no, the blades of grass don't prevent flooding, the fairways are intentionally allowed to flood during hurricanes, so that the houses won't.

EVERYBODY knows this!
And also once again, I would say that it matters NOT, and not anything, about what the land was used for BEFORE THE VILLAGES purchased it. It could have been used for passenger pigeon races, snipe hunts, or a drag strip. The Villages has the wherewithal to turn about anything into anything. They could cut trees, they could plant saplings, they could have brought in mature palms or other trees. It ONLY matters what they DO AFTER they buy land. What they usually do after they buy land is move in GIANT EARTH MOVING equipment and TEAR the crappola out of anything animal or vegetable that gets in their way. Then they do homes and golf courses or WHATEVER they want. Lately, they have REALIZED that younger 50-year-olds are NOT quite as enamored by the large, long golf courses as other sports (like softball) and the shorter pitch and putt courses. So, they are bending to demand......like "bend the knee" in Game of Thrones. I hope this prevents my further getting misquoted.

[jimjamuser]

You mean walking paths like Hogs Eye Trail, that meanders thru THE TREES that they DID NOT CUT DOWN???

Did you not read the many posts in this thread about people complaining that they were building TOO MANY PITCH AND PUTTS AND NOT ENOUGH EXECUTIVE AND CHAMPIONSHIP COURSES???

But you're right... No one wants to play on the bigger courses because golf is of no interest to the younger retirees...

A while back, my buddy and I were driving down to one of the exec courses thru March bend area and he commented that he was impressed that TV had left SO MUCH LAND UNDEVELOPED along the MMP and nearby walking trail. And that no other developer would do that...

And based on the number of golf rounds played per year in TV, no more people would use the golf courses...
I have noticed the situation as quite the opposite. I notice areas left with trees to be swampy or otherwise unsuitable for building houses. I have NOT looked at every walking trail in TV Land, so some may be built on high ground. But, also some walking areas could be just money in the bank to allow builders to return in the future and build houses.
........I remember that where there once was a fenced-in acreage for a herd of buffalo, but now today on 466 there are stores and assisted living. This amounts to both progress and the big bucks.

[jimjamuser]

Once again, many of these courses have been built on former COW PASTURES, which don't have a lot of trees to begin with!

And no, the blades of grass don't prevent flooding, the fairways are intentionally allowed to flood during hurricanes, so that the houses won't.

EVERYBODY knows this!
Not sure how "intentional" that was about the houses being built on higher ground than the (UGG) long golf fairways. Maybe it is just natural for the homes to look DOWN on the (re-ugg) long golf fairways rather than the homes looking UP at the (re-re-ugg) long golf fairways. Plus waste stuff flows downhill and more (uggy) golf balls would go through more windows if the fairways were higher.

[jimjamuser]

You mean walking paths like Hogs Eye Trail, that meanders thru THE TREES that they DID NOT CUT DOWN???

Did you not read the many posts in this thread about people complaining that they were building TOO MANY PITCH AND PUTTS AND NOT ENOUGH EXECUTIVE AND CHAMPIONSHIP COURSES???

But you're right... No one wants to play on the bigger courses because golf is of no interest to the younger retirees...

A while back, my buddy and I were driving down to one of the exec courses thru March bend area and he commented that he was impressed that TV had left SO MUCH LAND UNDEVELOPED along the MMP and nearby walking trail. And that no other developer would do that...

And based on the number of golf rounds played per year in TV, no more people would use the golf courses...
Now, this isn't snark - this is an attempt at a CUTE JOKE.........here goes........wait for it.........is that buddy the hairy one in the picture with the 4 paws........what a cutie!

[Bogie Shooter]

I have noticed the situation as quite the opposite. I notice areas left with trees to be swampy or otherwise unsuitable for building houses. I have NOT looked at every walking trail in TV Land, so some may be built on high ground. But, also some walking areas could be just money in the bank to allow builders to return in the future and build houses.
........I remember that where there once was a fenced-in acreage for a herd of buffalo, but now today on 466 there are stores and assisted living. This amounts to both progress and the big bucks.

Tell me why the Buffalo were removed? I know do you?

[golfing eagles]

Tell me why the Buffalo were removed? I know do you?

Wasn't their farts causing global warming???? :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Or did grandpa do something incredibly stupid.

[Bogie Shooter]

Wasn't their farts causing global warming???? :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Or did grandpa do something incredibly stupid.

Waiting for jimjams reply.

[JMintzer]

And also once again, I would say that it matters NOT, and not anything, about what the land was used for BEFORE THE VILLAGES purchased it. It could have been used for passenger pigeon races, snipe hunts, or a drag strip. The Villages has the wherewithal to turn about anything into anything. They could cut trees, they could plant saplings, they could have brought in mature palms or other trees. It ONLY matters what they DO AFTER they buy land. What they usually do after they buy land is move in GIANT EARTH MOVING equipment and TEAR the crappola out of anything animal or vegetable that gets in their way. Then they do homes and golf courses or WHATEVER they want. Lately, they have REALIZED that younger 50-year-olds are NOT quite as enamored by the large, long golf courses as other sports (like softball) and the shorter pitch and putt courses. So, they are bending to demand......like "bend the knee" in Game of Thrones. I hope this prevents my further getting misquoted.

Once again, you repeat the same false information...

They are building and have plans for 3-4 MORE Championship and 3-5 MORE Executive courses...

The current Pitch & putt and Putting courses were added in as a fill in for land that was too small for bigger courses. NOT because of a lagging interest in golf...

And they DO plant mature palms and all sorts of trees, bushes and other ground cover. The even do it on those dreaded championship and executive golf courses that no one plays on anymore, since they're too crowded (with a nod to Yogi...)

You would know that if you ever actually visited a golf course. But you'd rather make up nonsense...

Yes, they could buy cow pastures and replant them into a forest. IF THEY WERE INSANE... What developer anywhere would do such a foolish thing?

[JMintzer]

I have noticed the situation as quite the opposite. I notice areas left with trees to be swampy or otherwise unsuitable for building houses. I have NOT looked at every walking trail in TV Land, so some may be built on high ground. But, also some walking areas could be just money in the bank to allow builders to return in the future and build houses.
........I remember that where there once was a fenced-in acreage for a herd of buffalo, but now today on 466 there are stores and assisted living. This amounts to both progress and the big bucks.

You're living in a fantasy land...

You really think that once all of the underground infrastructure is in place, and all the houses are built out, that they will return and add MORE houses to a village? Where do you come up with such nonsense?

And the buffalo were removed because some idiots kept wanting to pet them and got injured. Now, they were left with vacant land. They used that land for another purpose... They saw a need and addressed it...

[JMintzer]

Not sure how "intentional" that was about the houses being built on higher ground than the (UGG) long golf fairways. Maybe it is just natural for the homes to look DOWN on the (re-ugg) long golf fairways rather than the homes looking UP at the (re-re-ugg) long golf fairways. Plus waste stuff flows downhill and more (uggy) golf balls would go through more windows if the fairways were higher.

Ugg (sic), more nonsense...You know absolutely nothing about water management on a golf course...

Of course the golf course is built lower than the houses. They WANT that extra water. It decreases the need for watering.

I used to live on a TPC course in MD. EVERY SINGLE HOUSE was built higher than the adjacent course... It's done ON PURPOSE...

[JMintzer]

Tell me why the Buffalo were removed? I know do you?

Wasn't their farts causing global warming???? :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Or did grandpa do something incredibly stupid.

Waiting for jimjams reply.

Sorry, I wrecked the surprise... I posted the answer before I saw your questions... My bad...

[Papa_lecki]

Not sure how "intentional" that was about the houses being built on higher ground than the (UGG) long golf fairways. Maybe it is just natural for the homes to look DOWN on the (re-ugg) long golf fairways rather than the homes looking UP at the (re-re-ugg) long golf fairways. Plus waste stuff flows downhill and more (uggy) golf balls would go through more windows if the fairways were higher.

It’s called civil engineering - rain water management, it is not an accident.

[Two Bills]

I have to laugh at all the moans about how far people have to travel for shops and golf.
No one travels more than 15 minutes anywhere in TV (unless on foot) to a shop or golf course.
I will wager that the majority traveled a whole lot further in their previous homes.
I agree infrastucture went in before homes "Up North" in previous years, but everything will come to those who wait!

[BrianL99]

Not sure how "intentional" that was about the houses being built on higher ground than the (UGG) long golf fairways. Maybe it is just natural for the homes to look DOWN on the (re-ugg) long golf fairways rather than the homes looking UP at the (re-re-ugg) long golf fairways. Plus waste stuff flows downhill and more (uggy) golf balls would go through more windows if the fairways were higher.


It’s called civil engineering - rain water management, it is not an accident.

This is like an Abbott & Costello routine.

Who would build houses at a lower elevation than a golf course, when the golf course happens to be part of one of the most sophisticated drainage systems in the USA?

In a battle of wits, it's best to come armed .... I thought everyone knew that?

[BobbyD1955]

Great courses if just learning or kids come to visit. They get a lot of play not always because they can't get on elsewhere, but be cause the like them. More executive courses coming south of 44, be patient.

[JMintzer]

This is like an Abbott & Costello routine.

Who would build houses at a lower elevation than a golf course, when the golf course happens to be part of one of the most sophisticated drainage systems in the USA?

In a battle of wits, it's best to come armed .... I thought everyone knew that?

https://y.yarn.co/fb96874d-cf8f-45c6-af26-9dc1d1b578df_text.gif

[jimjamuser]

Tell me why the Buffalo were removed? I know do you?
Really want to know?.......OK......Some stupid Villagers allowed their stupid grandchildren to crawl through the fence and go out to "PET" the nice, cuddly BUFFALO. Then the buffalo did what buffalo do and protected their herd and charged the children. Later on the Buffalo got shot and sent out to restaurants. Moral of the story......stupidity reigns supreme in the camp of the ignorant.

[golfing eagles]

Really want to know?.......OK......Some stupid Villagers allowed their stupid grandchildren to crawl through the fence and go out to "PET" the nice, cuddly BUFFALO. Then the buffalo did what buffalo do and protected their herd and charged the children. Later on the Buffalo got shot and sent out to restaurants. Moral of the story......stupidity reigns supreme in the camp of the ignorant.

Sure does. But that's that many less buffalo burps you have to worry about causing global warming :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Papa_lecki]

This is like an Abbott & Costello routine.

Who would build houses at a lower elevation than a golf course, when the golf course happens to be part of one of the most sophisticated drainage systems in the USA?

In a battle of wits, it's best to come armed .... I thought everyone knew that?

It was dumb luck.

[Bogie Shooter]

Really want to know?.......OK......Some stupid Villagers allowed their stupid grandchildren to crawl through the fence and go out to "PET" the nice, cuddly BUFFALO. Then the buffalo did what buffalo do and protected their herd and charged the children. Later on the Buffalo got shot and sent out to restaurants. Moral of the story......stupidity reigns supreme in the camp of the ignorant.

So, they really were not moved by the greedy Developer to sell the land. Sometimes your stories don’t make any sense.

[Kenswing]

So, they really were not moved by the greedy Developer to sell the land. Sometimes your stories don’t make any sense.

Sometimes? :shrug:

[JMintzer]

Sometimes? :shrug:

Beat me to it! :icon_wink:

[asianthree]

Really want to know?.......OK......Some stupid Villagers allowed their stupid grandchildren to crawl through the fence and go out to "PET" the nice, cuddly BUFFALO. Then the buffalo did what buffalo do and protected their herd and charged the children. Later on the Buffalo got shot and sent out to restaurants. Moral of the story......stupidity reigns supreme in the camp of the ignorant.

Truly if the Buffalo would have charged children they would be dead.

So the real story grandpa held up the 4yo male grandchild, to pet Buffalo, leaning over the fence. Buffalo bit the child’s fingers. Lawsuit followed.

Buffalo moved to undisclosed area. Which some who live and work for TV, know exactly where they reside now.

[jimjamuser]

So, they really were not moved by the greedy Developer to sell the land. Sometimes your stories don’t make any sense.
That PARTICULAR story ( about where have all the Buffalo gone, long time passing) MUST make sense because it is TRUE.......... TRUTH has a way of making SENSE and being logical. And when it is said that sometimes I DON'T make sense, that is ALMOST a compliment because it MUST mean that most of the time, I MUST make sense.
........Thanks, I appreciate that. No one is perfect so I can be pleased when I make sense most of the time. And since this is an OPINION forum, then some folks are always going to disagree with some other folks. That's just HUMAN NATURE. One man's opinion about what makes sense is another man's (or woman's) nonsense.

[jimjamuser]

Truly if the Buffalo would have charged children they would be dead.

So the real story grandpa held up the 4yo male grandchild, to pet Buffalo, leaning over the fence. Buffalo bit the child’s fingers. Lawsuit followed.

Buffalo moved to undisclosed area. Which some who live and work for TV, know exactly where they reside now.
OK. I can believe that version of the story. It is only SLIGHTLY different from the story as I heard it. Your details MAY (?) be more accurate than the story that I was told. It is all 2nd hand stories. None of us were actually there at that time. Maybe there was something accurate that could be relied upon written in a newspaper article back then. It is NOT that interesting that anyone wants to do RESEARCH on it.
.........I just tried to be helpful because some other poster brought up the question.
.........And as to the last sentence about the Buffalo being MOVED........I would question that as just a story to make TV Land feel better about where they went.....just like the stories told by the alligator trappers about RELOCATING the alligators. Yes, the alligators get relocated to peoples' stomachs by the alligator trappers. I TEND to think that the Buffalo exist today absorbed from the stomachs of some humans into their muscle structure.

[Vermilion Villager]

OK. I can believe that version of the story. It is only SLIGHTLY different from the story as I heard it. Your details MAY (?) be more accurate than the story that I was told. It is all 2nd hand stories. None of us were actually there at that time. Maybe there was something accurate that could be relied upon written in a newspaper article back then. It is NOT that interesting that anyone wants to do RESEARCH on it.
.........I just tried to be helpful because some other poster brought up the question.
.........And as to the last sentence about the Buffalo being MOVED........I would question that as just a story to make TV Land feel better about where they went.....just like the stories told by the alligator trappers about RELOCATING the alligators. Yes, the alligators get relocated to peoples' stomachs by the alligator trappers. I TEND to think that the Buffalo exist today absorbed from the stomachs of some humans into their muscle structure.

Only in the villages could the original post be about pitch and putt golf courses and morph into buffaloes attacking children, and trapping alligators. :eclipsee_gold_cup:

[jimjamuser]

OK. I think that Pitch and Putt golf has the advantage that it appeals to more people than Executive courses. - the number of beginners in ANY sport ALWAYS exceeds the number of experts. The experts are willing to travel further for a course, so it is advantageous to have as MANY Pitch and Putts available as possible and as CLOSE as possible. The PNP courses have the advantages of COSTING much less to build and maintain while appealing to a greater audience. It seems strange to me that expert golfers would NOT want to encourage as many beginners to their sport as possible. It seems SELFISH to deny the PNP players a solid introduction to their fine and to-be-worshipped sport. You can't have a GREAT sport without a solid foundation. That is what female athletes learned beginning in about 1970 with the introduction of female soccer, tennis, running sports, and many others.
.......If I were managing The Villages' sport development, I would put in another track in the newest Villages. And I would set up an indoor (or outdoor) rock climbing situation. Also roller skate obstacle tracks. Dog obedience classes. Dog breeding classes. Dog fetching frisbees classes. Dog field trial exhibitions. Fly casting classes. Something (?) for cat lovers. And maybe some hedgehog races. Just kidding about the hedgehogs, but they can be quite cute.

[rustyp]

Only in the villages could the original post be about pitch and putt golf courses and morph into buffaloes attacking children, and trapping alligators. :eclipsee_gold_cup:

Give it enough time and it will turn to dog poop.

[Bogie Shooter]

OK. I think that Pitch and Putt golf has the advantage that it appeals to more people than Executive courses. - the number of beginners in ANY sport ALWAYS exceeds the number of experts. The experts are willing to travel further for a course, so it is advantageous to have as MANY Pitch and Putts available as possible and as CLOSE as possible. The PNP courses have the advantages of COSTING much less to build and maintain while appealing to a greater audience. It seems strange to me that expert golfers would NOT want to encourage as many beginners to their sport as possible. It seems SELFISH to deny the PNP players a solid introduction to their fine and to-be-worshipped sport. You can't have a GREAT sport without a solid foundation. That is what female athletes learned beginning in about 1970 with the introduction of female soccer, tennis, running sports, and many others.
.......If I were managing The Villages' sport development, I would put in another track in the newest Villages. And I would set up an indoor (or outdoor) rock climbing situation. Also roller skate obstacle tracks. Dog obedience classes. Dog breeding classes. Dog fetching frisbees classes. Dog field trial exhibitions. Fly casting classes. Something (?) for cat lovers. And maybe some hedgehog races. Just kidding about the hedgehogs, but they can be quite cute.

There is a Villages sport development department?

[JMintzer]

OK. I think that Pitch and Putt golf has the advantage that it appeals to more people than Executive courses. - the number of beginners in ANY sport ALWAYS exceeds the number of experts. The experts are willing to travel further for a course, so it is advantageous to have as MANY Pitch and Putts available as possible and as CLOSE as possible. The PNP courses have the advantages of COSTING much less to build and maintain while appealing to a greater audience. It seems strange to me that expert golfers would NOT want to encourage as many beginners to their sport as possible. It seems SELFISH to deny the PNP players a solid introduction to their fine and to-be-worshipped sport. You can't have a GREAT sport without a solid foundation. That is what female athletes learned beginning in about 1970 with the introduction of female soccer, tennis, running sports, and many others.
.......If I were managing The Villages' sport development, I would put in another track in the newest Villages. And I would set up an indoor (or outdoor) rock climbing situation. Also roller skate obstacle tracks. Dog obedience classes. Dog breeding classes. Dog fetching frisbees classes. Dog field trial exhibitions. Fly casting classes. Something (?) for cat lovers. And maybe some hedgehog races. Just kidding about the hedgehogs, but they can be quite cute.

One would think that the courses with plenty of open tee-times, by definition would be LESS POPULAR that those courses where it's nearly very difficult to get any tee-times, let alone good ones?

I just described the difference between the pitch & putts and the executive courses.

Those "oh so popular pitch & putts" have plenty of open tee-times, day in and day out. Where the executive courses (where beginners can get a better feel for the ENTIRE GAME OF GOLF) are nearly full, day in and day out...

Add to that, there are also more than 10xs as many executive courses than pitch & putts...

Of course you're free to "think" anything you like, but the FACTS prove your "thoughts" to be wrong...

And you actually thing "rock climbing walls" and "roller skate obstacle tracks" are a good thing for senior citizens? Are you an orthopedic surgeon, who's been punking us all this time? Trying to drum up business?

You constantly talk about golf causing injuries to people. What do you think a "roller skate obstacle track" will do?

I won't even comment on your other suggestions, but I'd like to have some of whatever you were smoking when you came up with them...

[JMintzer]

Give it enough time and it will turn to dog poop.

It's already turned to crap...

[Two Bills]

I had to laugh about Dog fetching Frisbee classes.
Last dog I had, used to look at me as if I was nuts when I threw things for him to fetch.
His attitude was, "You threw the Bl**dy thing, you go fetch it!"

[jimjamuser]

OK. I think that Pitch and Putt golf has the advantage that it appeals to more people than Executive courses. - the number of beginners in ANY sport ALWAYS exceeds the number of experts. The experts are willing to travel further for a course, so it is advantageous to have as MANY Pitch and Putts available as possible and as CLOSE as possible. The PNP courses have the advantages of COSTING much less to build and maintain while appealing to a greater audience. It seems strange to me that expert golfers would NOT want to encourage as many beginners to their sport as possible. It seems SELFISH to deny the PNP players a solid introduction to their fine and to-be-worshipped sport. You can't have a GREAT sport without a solid foundation. That is what female athletes learned beginning in about 1970 with the introduction of female soccer, tennis, running sports, and many others.
.......If I were managing The Villages' sport development, I would put in another track in the newest Villages. And I would set up an indoor (or outdoor) rock climbing situation. Also roller skate obstacle tracks. Dog obedience classes. Dog breeding classes. Dog fetching frisbees classes. Dog field trial exhibitions. Fly casting classes. Something (?) for cat lovers. And maybe some hedgehog races. Just kidding about the hedgehogs, but they can be quite cute.
Just remembered a good sport for those loyal and enthusiastic cat lovers. The great international sport of "cat juggling". This sport, I believe, was popularized in the United States by that former "All World" champion cat juggler.........Steve Martin, who was well known to be a great athlete in his youth. He could play the banjo with one hand and juggle 3 cats simultaneously in the other hand.

[JMintzer]

Just remembered a good sport for those loyal and enthusiastic cat lovers. The great international sport of "cat juggling". This sport, I believe, was popularized in the United States by that former "All World" champion cat juggler.........Steve Martin, who was well known to be a great athlete in his youth. He could play the banjo with one hand and juggle 3 cats simultaneously in the other hand.

Like that's hard to do... :jester:

[jimjamuser]

I think that the original thread starter calling the pitch and putt courses to be "non-desirable" to be ignorant and elitist. Why does he get to make that judgement?

[golfing eagles]

I think that the original thread starter calling the pitch and putt courses to be "non-desirable" to be ignorant and elitist. Why does he get to make that judgement?

Like you, he is entitled to his opinion. The bigger question is: How did this thread go from pitch and putt golf to cat juggling?????

[JMintzer]

I think that the original thread starter calling the pitch and putt courses to be "non-desirable" to be ignorant and elitist. Why does he get to make that judgement?

Because there are some actual facts so back up that opinion...

[JMintzer]

Like you, he is entitled to his opinion. The bigger question is: How did this thread go from pitch and putt golf to cat juggling?????

If you have to ask... :p

[Normal]

These courses are wonderful and great exercise. Golf carts are not permitted on them and all of them require skill. Hopefully they put more in the Villages! Sorry Northerners, you probably don’t have the room.

[jimjamuser]

Like you, he is entitled to his opinion. The bigger question is: How did this thread go from pitch and putt golf to cat juggling?????
Well, that was just a 9 iron away.

[jimjamuser]

Like you, he is entitled to his opinion. The bigger question is: How did this thread go from pitch and putt golf to cat juggling?????
I call......OVERLY judgemental!

[BrianL99]

[QUOTE=Dog breeding classes .[/QUOTE]


There's a classic. I'm sure neighbors breeding dogs would go over well in the neighborhood.

... as if there aren't already enough discussions about dogs in The Villages.

[jimjamuser]

There's a classic. I'm sure neighbors breeding dogs would go over well in the neighborhood.

... as if there aren't already enough discussions about dogs in The Villages.
I read a scientific text on dog breeding. also, as an aside, Russian scientists bred very stable human-loving foxes in 4 generations from wild to adorable.........true story!

[Causey]

The system was not able to accommodate this request. (for Thursday) My request had 16 executive golf courses listed. Obviously we have too many points, because we golf too much and nothing is available.
I stopped counting open tee times at "pitch-n-putts" at 75.

[Altavia]

The system was not able to accommodate this request. (for Thursday) My request had 16 executive golf courses listed. Obviously we have too many points, because we golf too much and nothing is available.
I stopped counting open tee times at "pitch-n-putts" at 75.

Probably, I usually get whatever I request but only play once a week.

[MSchad]

The system was not able to accommodate this request. (for Thursday) My request had 16 executive golf courses listed. Obviously we have too many points, because we golf too much and nothing is available.
I stopped counting open tee times at "pitch-n-putts" at 75.

Ok, I have to rant a bit here. Everyone complaining, but also abusing the system then griping when what they are doing penalizes them. I’m a starter, and this morning between 7:20 and 11:30 we had 15 no shows. Mostly from men and ladies groups. Now they will get triple the points and maybe knock that group out next week and knock the individuals from others requests they put in. Then they will complain about not getting tee times. I can’t feel sorry for these people.
The people I do feel sorry for are the singles and couples calling looking for open tee times. Get a call about every 15-20 minutes. Have to tell them none available because these groups have all the times sewn up. If these groups would cancel these individuals the day before and consolidate their players others could find slots online and book them. Or at least have the courtesy to call in the morning and cancel the individuals so the tee times could be given to others when they call wanting to golf. Don’t wait until your group checks in and then say… oh these 2, 3 or 4 people aren’t coming. Those slots are lost. But then I know many do this just so others can’t jump in.
I wish the system would average points over a month vs a week. Then maybe these abusers would get the message when they couldn’t get a tee time for a month.
Don't scream about not having enough courses when 16-20 slots just in the morning at one starter shack are being wasted. Now multiple that for the afternoon too, and then again for all the executive courses… 100’s of tee time wasted daily.
Rant over.

[Bogie Shooter]

Ok, I have to rant a bit here. Everyone complaining, but also abusing the system then griping when what they are doing penalizes them. I’m a starter, and this morning between 7:20 and 11:30 we had 15 no shows. Mostly from men and ladies groups. Now they will get triple the points and maybe knock that group out next week and knock the individuals from others requests they put in. Then they will complain about not getting tee times. I can’t feel sorry for these people.
The people I do feel sorry for are the singles and couples calling looking for open tee times. Get a call about every 15-20 minutes. Have to tell them none available because these groups have all the times sewn up. If these groups would cancel these individuals the day before and consolidate their players others could find slots online and book them. Or at least have the courtesy to call in the morning and cancel the individuals so the tee times could be given to others when they call wanting to golf. Don’t wait until your group checks in and then say… oh these 2, 3 or 4 people aren’t coming. Those slots are lost. But then I know many do this just so others can’t jump in.
I wish the system would average points over a month vs a week. Then maybe these abusers would get the message when they couldn’t get a tee time for a month.
Don't scream about not having enough courses when 16-20 slots just in the morning at one starter shack are being wasted. Now multiple that for the afternoon too, and then again for all the executive courses… 100’s of tee time wasted daily.
Rant over.

Thank you for offering what really is happening. Facts rather than ignorant opinions.

[Papa_lecki]

Ok, I have to rant a bit here. Everyone complaining, but also abusing the system then griping when what they are doing penalizes them. I’m a starter, and this morning between 7:20 and 11:30 we had 15 no shows. Mostly from men and ladies groups. Now they will get triple the points and maybe knock that group out next week and knock the individuals from others requests they put in. Then they will complain about not getting tee times. I can’t feel sorry for these people.
The people I do feel sorry for are the singles and couples calling looking for open tee times. Get a call about every 15-20 minutes. Have to tell them none available because these groups have all the times sewn up. If these groups would cancel these individuals the day before and consolidate their players others could find slots online and book them. Or at least have the courtesy to call in the morning and cancel the individuals so the tee times could be given to others when they call wanting to golf. Don’t wait until your group checks in and then say… oh these 2, 3 or 4 people aren’t coming. Those slots are lost. But then I know many do this just so others can’t jump in.
I wish the system would average points over a month vs a week. Then maybe these abusers would get the message when they couldn’t get a tee time for a month.
Don't scream about not having enough courses when 16-20 slots just in the morning at one starter shack are being wasted. Now multiple that for the afternoon too, and then again for all the executive courses… 100’s of tee time wasted daily.
Rant over.

Not surprised.
But the no show will play next week, the group will use another number
Isn’t a new tee time system coming, maybe it will be easy to manage the groups.

Also like the idea of averaging points over a month.

[thelegges]

Three pitch and putt courses south of 44. These courses are the last to get booked which is a clear indicator that they are least desirable for home owners. This activity of building non-desirable pitch and putt courses south of 44 continues to put pressure on executive courses north of 44. How do we stop this bad behavior? I sent a mail to villages.com but wonder if there is a better way.

Dan

Yep developer is going to change plans, just to keep you happy. See if developer will sell you the next 3 projects, for golf courses, then you can build your own village of ———-. Or ask village of Stu if he has room for what you think should be built.

Pitch and putt is a walking course, some can’t walk the course, some, more walking than they do in a week, and others just unhappy that they can’t drive their cart to the green tees, then next to the green, walking as little as possible. Some just have a hard time adjusting to carrying only 3 clubs. Either way I would bet $10 developer is going to stick to what works for them.

[Causey]

There are other solutions. Occasionally we go "off campus" to some very nice courses in the surrounding area just to avoid accumulating points. The cost is less than a Villages championship course, and almost always the conditions are better. A lot better.
Curious how these courses can have nicer conditions, at less cost.

[Causey]

There are other options in the surrounding area. The "off campus" courses we go to (to avoid points) are less expensive than Villages championship courses, with better conditions than we have here in the Villages.
Seems like the Villages championship courses are available, but too expensive for what you get.

[tvbound]

There are other options in the surrounding area. The "off campus" courses we go to (to avoid points) are less expensive than Villages championship courses, with better conditions than we have here in the Villages.
Seems like the Villages championship courses are available, but too expensive for what you get.

There's an obvious "convenience premium" on the championship courses here. Being able to drive your own cart, is the primary reason so many of us put up with mostly poor course conditions, at higher than warranted prices compared to other courses outside The Bubble.

[JMintzer]

Ok, I have to rant a bit here. Everyone complaining, but also abusing the system then griping when what they are doing penalizes them. I’m a starter, and this morning between 7:20 and 11:30 we had 15 no shows. Mostly from men and ladies groups. Now they will get triple the points and maybe knock that group out next week and knock the individuals from others requests they put in. Then they will complain about not getting tee times. I can’t feel sorry for these people.
The people I do feel sorry for are the singles and couples calling looking for open tee times. Get a call about every 15-20 minutes. Have to tell them none available because these groups have all the times sewn up. If these groups would cancel these individuals the day before and consolidate their players others could find slots online and book them. Or at least have the courtesy to call in the morning and cancel the individuals so the tee times could be given to others when they call wanting to golf. Don’t wait until your group checks in and then say… oh these 2, 3 or 4 people aren’t coming. Those slots are lost. But then I know many do this just so others can’t jump in.
I wish the system would average points over a month vs a week. Then maybe these abusers would get the message when they couldn’t get a tee time for a month.
Don't scream about not having enough courses when 16-20 slots just in the morning at one starter shack are being wasted. Now multiple that for the afternoon too, and then again for all the executive courses… 100’s of tee time wasted daily.
Rant over.

:bigbow::bigbow::bigbow: