Passing in the diamond lanes

[Hardlyworking]

There is a thread on the N***D*** site where someone is claiming to have been issued a ticket for crossing the solid white line of the diamond lane to pass another golf cart.

I did a quick search through this forum thinking that the topic has been discussed already but couldn’t find anything.

[Mlr4343]

There is a thread on the N***D*** site where someone is claiming to have been issued a ticket for crossing the solid white line of the diamond lane to pass another golf cart.

I did a quick search through this forum thinking that the topic has been discussed already but couldn’t find anything.

Been discussing this in our neighborhood for a week or so and yes it is illegal to pass while in the diamond lane, according to the Sheriffs office. I called both the sheriff and local police and confirmed. No exceptions for a golf cart to pass ANY other cart, bike, trike, etc. Hard to believe. Sent an email to Don Wiley asking if Commissioners could address it but he’s indicated it’s a state traffic law and they can’t. Not sure where to go from here

[Hardlyworking]

Been discussing this in our neighborhood for a week or so and yes it is illegal to pass while in the diamond lane, according to the Sheriffs office. I called both the sheriff and local police and confirmed. No exceptions for a golf cart to pass ANY other cart, bike, trike, etc. Hard to believe. Sent an email to Don Wiley asking if Commissioners could address it but he’s indicated it’s a state traffic law and they can’t. Not sure where to go from here

Did they happen to quote the statute?

[Bogie Shooter]

Been discussing this in our neighborhood for a week or so and yes it is illegal to pass while in the diamond lane, according to the Sheriffs office. I called both the sheriff and local police and confirmed. No exceptions for a golf cart to pass ANY other cart, bike, trike, etc. Hard to believe. Sent an email to Don Wiley asking if Commissioners could address it but he’s indicated it’s a state traffic law and they can’t. Not sure where to go from here

Stay in the lane!

[Laker14]

Been discussing this in our neighborhood for a week or so and yes it is illegal to pass while in the diamond lane, according to the Sheriffs office. I called both the sheriff and local police and confirmed. No exceptions for a golf cart to pass ANY other cart, bike, trike, etc. Hard to believe. Sent an email to Don Wiley asking if Commissioners could address it but he’s indicated it’s a state traffic law and they can’t. Not sure where to go from here

Stay in the lane!


I guess one has to make a value judgement. What is more valuable? The money I might have to pay on the slim chance I get ticketed, or the time I'll waste over the course of my remaining days on earth waiting for slow traffic?

I'll take my chances passing the bicyclist going 5mph up the incline.

[Number 10 GI]

Did they happen to quote the statute?

Read the drivers license test manual. It's pretty universal in the U.S. that you don't cross a solid white line. I believe in some states a solid white line is considered a Traffic Control Device.

[Bill14564]

It would be useful to know the statute for this. Not suggesting it isn't a law, just would be nice to be able to read the wording of the law.

[justjim]

Read the drivers license test manual. It's pretty universal in the U.S. that you don't cross a solid white line. I believe in some states a solid white line is considered a Traffic Control Device.

I agree - you are technically spot on. Take the muti-modal trails when you are running late for your tee time!

[DonH57]

Certainly there must have been a change in whatever statute covers this. Been here ten years. What's described here was not in place back then. Things change.

[villagetinker]

I have been driving since 1966, and I still remember my driving instructor stating you NEVER cross double yellow lines or solid WHITE lines to pass. On a side note, I see this all the time on Pinellas Place.

[Hardlyworking]

[QUOTE=Bogie Shooter;2183360]


I guess one has to make a value judgement. What is more valuable? The money I might have to pay on the slim chance I get ticketed, or the time I'll waste over the course of my remaining days on earth waiting for slow traffic?

I'll take my chances passing the bicyclist going 5mph up the incline.

I’m with you. Take a second and look around first.

[Tom52]

I have been driving since 1966, and I still remember my driving instructor stating you NEVER cross double yellow lines or solid WHITE lines to pass. On a side note, I see this all the time on Pinellas Place.

You are right about Pinellas. But think about this, going west on Pinellas to the Sanibel neighborhood mail station, to get there making a left turn a golf cart has to cross over the solid white diamond lane line then the solid double yellow center lane dividers. Both must be illegal according to what is being stated in this thread. Even cars going west and turning left into that mail station must cross the double yellow center dividing lines. Does that mean left turns at that location is not allowed?

What about all the left turns off Pinellas into the neighborhoods? The golf cart lanes don't have a break in the solid white diamond lane marker as you approach these left turns. Does that mean you could be ticketed because a golf cart has to cross the solid white line to get in the car traffic lane.

Something sounds contradictory here.

[bagboy]

You are right about Pinellas. But think about this, going west on Pinellas to the Sanibel neighborhood mail station, to get there making a left turn a golf cart has to cross over the solid white diamond lane line then the solid double yellow center lane dividers. Both must be illegal according to what is being stated in this thread. Even cars going west and turning left into that mail station must cross the double yellow center dividing lines. Does that mean left turns at that location is not allowed?

What about all the left turns off Pinellas into the neighborhoods? The golf cart lanes don't have a break in the solid white diamond lane marker as you approach these left turns. Does that mean you could be ticketed because a golf cart has to cross the solid white line to get in the car traffic lane.

Something sounds contradictory here.

I'll add, there are alot of turns into country clubs and executive golf courses that would seem to violate the law. And my last point, driving west on 466A, if you don't get into the right turn lane within that very short dotted line space, you won't be able to turn into Trailwinds.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Read the drivers license test manual. It's pretty universal in the U.S. that you don't cross a solid white line. I believe in some states a solid white line is considered a Traffic Control Device.

You aren't required to have a drivers license to drive a golf cart in Florida. You aren't required to take any test, or read any manual.

[Bill14564]

You are right about Pinellas. But think about this, going west on Pinellas to the Sanibel neighborhood mail station, to get there making a left turn a golf cart has to cross over the solid white diamond lane line then the solid double yellow center lane dividers. Both must be illegal according to what is being stated in this thread. Even cars going west and turning left into that mail station must cross the double yellow center dividing lines. Does that mean left turns at that location is not allowed?

What about all the left turns off Pinellas into the neighborhoods? The golf cart lanes don't have a break in the solid white diamond lane marker as you approach these left turns. Does that mean you could be ticketed because a golf cart has to cross the solid white line to get in the car traffic lane.

Something sounds contradictory here.

You will find these words in the Florida Statutes:
However, this subsection shall not be construed as prohibiting the crossing of the centerline in making a left turn into or from an alley, private road, or driveway.

[LAFwUs]

Its most likely NOT that you cannot pass, its that there is not enough diamond lane space to actually pass, without crossing the white lane stripe and then occupying the vehicular traffic lane.
Its the "use" of the vehicular lane by non licensed, slow speed vehicle that's at issue.
Its a technicality,
that as pointed out, land contradictory to driveway/turn lane use by carts or when the cart path ends and merges with vehicular lane as they sometimes do.

Further to the point, what about when walkers that are facing the wrong way, walking in the diamond lane?
On coming cart traffic isn't suppose to drift out and pass them on the outside? Hows that work exactly?

I've encountered some walkers that refuse to even budge an inch, as if right or wrong, a contact encounter with an oncoming cart doing 25mph is somehow going to be a winning situation for them....

[villagetinker]

My previous comment was to is not legal the cross the lines TO PASS, yes you need to cross these lines to make LEFT turns, which as I understand it is legal WITH TURN SIGNALS.

[LAFwUs]

My previous comment was to is not legal the cross the lines TO PASS, yes you need to cross these lines to make LEFT turns, which as I understand it is legal WITH TURN SIGNALS.

Agreed.
My guess is, whom ever is claiming they received a traffic citation, was probably occupying the vehicular lane for more/longer than just passing or to make a turn - or the officer thought they had been do so.
I can see both possibilities.

[Spartan86]

I’ve seen discussions recently about this as well. So….you’re following a slower moving vehicle in the cart lane. You come upon a side street. The white line is broken crossing the side street. Can you now go into the traffic lane, around the slower cart/bike etc and back into the cart lane?

[thelegges]

Whats the worry, I watch cars, lawn service, UPS, and USPS trucks exhilarating, crossing the double yellow, to get ahead of the merging golf cart traffic, that has already merged, all over the Villages.

Guessing they aren’t worried about a potential ticket

[Southwest737]

Deb Penney LeMay On Villages FB group posted her being ticketed for passing a slow cart. She can probably get it tossed if she takes it to court. The solid white line designates the multi modal lane. It does not define a no passing zone.
Deputy Fife needs to get a clue and stop harassing law abiding Villagers.

[Bill14564]

I’ve seen discussions recently about this as well. So….you’re following a slower moving vehicle in the cart lane. You come upon a side street. The white line is broken crossing the side street. Can you now go into the traffic lane, around the slower cart/bike etc and back into the cart lane?

If there is no traffic to hit you and no officer to give you a ticket then yes. (if a tree falls in the woods and no one is around to hear it.....)

How about if you are in a car on a two-way road with a solid yellow line to your left. When you come to an intersection the solid yellow line is broken for the length of the intersection. Can you now go into the oncoming lane, around the slower car in front of you, then back into your lane (pass in an intersection)?

[TCRSO]

From the Florida manual used to prepare for the driving test:

Solid White Line

A solid white line marks the edge of the roadway or separates lanes of traffic moving in the same direction. You may travel in the same direction on both sides of this line, but you should not cross the line unless you must do so to avoid a hazard.

[fishon]

Bicycles are hazards.

[jimdecastro]

You are right about Pinellas. But think about this, going west on Pinellas to the Sanibel neighborhood mail station, to get there making a left turn a golf cart has to cross over the solid white diamond lane line then the solid double yellow center lane dividers. Both must be illegal according to what is being stated in this thread. Even cars going west and turning left into that mail station must cross the double yellow center dividing lines. Does that mean left turns at that location is not allowed?

What about all the left turns off Pinellas into the neighborhoods? The golf cart lanes don't have a break in the solid white diamond lane marker as you approach these left turns. Does that mean you could be ticketed because a golf cart has to cross the solid white line to get in the car traffic lane.

Something sounds contradictory here.

The VHA has a Golf Cart Safety class monthly at Colony RC. While you cannot cross the line to pass, you CAN cross the line to go into the main road BEFORE the intersection (after signaling and seeing it is safe). While signaling again, you turn left - just as a car would. You should NOT turn left from the cart lane AT the intersection (where the line DOES break) - this has caused several accidents - and deaths - over the years. I verified this process with Wildwood PD.

[dewilson58]

Bicycles are hazards.

Not bicycles, people are hazards.

[Sandy and Ed]

You are right about Pinellas. But think about this, going west on Pinellas to the Sanibel neighborhood mail station, to get there making a left turn a golf cart has to cross over the solid white diamond lane line then the solid double yellow center lane dividers. Both must be illegal according to what is being stated in this thread. Even cars going west and turning left into that mail station must cross the double yellow center dividing lines. Does that mean left turns at that location is not allowed?

What about all the left turns off Pinellas into the neighborhoods? The golf cart lanes don't have a break in the solid white diamond lane marker as you approach these left turns. Does that mean you could be ticketed because a golf cart has to cross the solid white line to get in the car traffic lane.

Something sounds contradictory here.
Believe the meaning was never to “pass” another vehicle by crossing the lines. Certainly one would need to cross the lines to make a left turn into a
Driveway unless at an intersection

[kidnerkim]

I get off multi modal path because of the slow bike & walking traffic and it is hard to pass with splits, tunnels and curves. I’ll take the risk & pass on the roads

[Sandy and Ed]

I’ve seen discussions recently about this as well. So….you’re following a slower moving vehicle in the cart lane. You come upon a side street. The white line is broken crossing the side street. Can you now go into the traffic lane, around the slower cart/bike etc and back into the cart lane?
Interesting! Following the letter and not the intent. Hmmm…

[Sandy and Ed]

Ok. Now the elephant in the room…..Top speed on my cart is 20 mph. I do see it reach 21 mph downhill or in a strong tailwind. EVERYBODY passes me. Should I “adjust” that little spring so I can increase speed by 5 mph?! Probably illegal but it would help a lot of cart drivers behind me better avoid a ticket. A conundrum.

[Laker14]

Interesting! Following the letter and not the intent. Hmmm…

What do you think the intent of the law is?

Is it to make a golf cart go 5mph while a bicyclist crawls up a long incline?

How about a double yellow line, when a car approaches a bicyclist crawling up an incline?

Are we sure we know the whole story behind the citation?

[fishon]

Not bicycles, people are hazards.

You are correct. The bicycle is not a hazard. The bicyclists are the hazard.

[Bill14564]

Ok. Now the elephant in the room…..Top speed on my cart is 20 mph. I do see it reach 21 mph downhill or in a strong tailwind. EVERYBODY passes me. Should I “adjust” that little spring so I can increase speed by 5 mph?! Probably illegal but it would help a lot of cart drivers behind me better avoid a ticket. A conundrum.

Help the cart drivers behind you avoid a ticket that was the result of them making an apparently illegal pass after modifying their cart to an illegal configuration? It seems like their ticket would be the culmination of several poor choices on their part and not your responsibility in any way.

[Bill14564]

What do you think the intent of the law is?

Is it to make a golf cart go 5mph while a bicyclist crawls up a long incline?

How about a double yellow line, when a car approaches a bicyclist crawling up an incline?

Are we sure we know the whole story behind the citation?

EDIT - IGNORE, INCORRECT -> Surprisingly, Florida law contains an exception which specifically allows you to cross the center line of a road to pass a bicycle. It does not seem contain the same exception for two lanes traveling in the same direction.

Florida law allows crossing the center line of a road to pass a bicycle. It also allows crossing to the left of a solid line to pass a bicycle. What it does not allow is crossing a solid white line (no passing zone) to pass another vehicle that is NOT a bicycle.

[derkster]

Maintenance crews regularly park their vehicles in the diamond lanes while they cut grass, tend to bushes and flower beds etc. With this in mind, there will be long lines of golf carts backed up while they do their projects. We will have to start a traffic report on channel 1013 to alert drivers just where the backups are.

[Laker14]

Ok. Now the elephant in the room…..Top speed on my cart is 20 mph. I do see it reach 21 mph downhill or in a strong tailwind. EVERYBODY passes me. Should I “adjust” that little spring so I can increase speed by 5 mph?! Probably illegal but it would help a lot of cart drivers behind me better avoid a ticket. A conundrum.

I was thinking about the same elephant. It seems to me that if a LEO were to ticket a cart driver for crossing the white line to pass, while exceeding the 20mph limit, that they would cite the cart driver for the bigger infraction of operating an unregistered motor vehicle.
That is the bigger fish to fry.

If the Sumter Co. Sheriff Dept. wants to stop carts from crossing the white line to pass other carts, it could spend the whole day on Pinellas, or Bailey, or Odell, just writing tickets. Yet they don't do that, yet we are to believe one sheriff decided to do it this one time...

Something just seems weird to me in this entire scenario.

[rrtjp]

You aren't required to have a drivers license to drive a golf cart in Florida. You aren't required to take any test, or read any manual.

Maybe you should be

[kayak]

The solid white lines for the golf cart lanes have got to go. Replace every one of them with broken white lines. Problem solved.

[merrymini]

I wish the police would ticket any golf cart doing over 20 miles per hour instead. Would bring some good money in and penalize people who are, in very certain terms, breaking the law.

[rrtjp]

Not bicycles, people are hazards.

Agree

[Southwest737]

A picture of her ticket.

[Bogie Shooter]

The sheriff should put the deputy who wrote up this ticket…..in timeout.:smiley:

[wamley]

If the Sheriff said it's a violation, why not ask him to quotes the Statute that would appear on the ticket the Deputy Sheriff would put on the ticket you would receive for the violation he/she is citing you for. Typically in Vehicle and Traffic laws vehicles cannot cross solid white lines unless its to avoid an accident.

[BigHoss18]

There is a thread on the N***D*** site where someone is claiming to have been issued a ticket for crossing the solid white line of the diamond lane to pass another golf cart.

I did a quick search through this forum thinking that the topic has been discussed already but couldn’t find anything.

[rhetorical] What does this say about a society that "lets criminals steal several hundred dollars worth of retail items and run away without challenge?" And then tickets an "otherwise law-abiding citizen for crossing a solid white line to go on their way?"

"Common sense" is no longer valued or exercised among a vast majority of our hideous population.

[PoolBrews]

A picture of her ticket.

I don't think this is a real ticket. The word designated is incorrectly spelled. I see it is typed/printed out, meaning it was automatically generated, and I doubt that the wording would be spelled incorrectly.

I've never received a ticket that didn't have hand writing on it, but I haven't gotten a ticket in a loooong time.

[Larchap49]

Been discussing this in our neighborhood for a week or so and yes it is illegal to pass while in the diamond lane, according to the Sheriffs office. I called both the sheriff and local police and confirmed. No exceptions for a golf cart to pass ANY other cart, bike, trike, etc. Hard to believe. Sent an email to Don Wiley asking if Commissioners could address it but he’s indicated it’s a state traffic law and they can’t. Not sure where to go from here

The most ridiculous part is - say you are in the golf cart lane headed south, you want to make a left turn into a street on the northbound side of the street. There is no break in the solid line for you on the southbound side so technically it is illegal for you to cross the line to make your turn. Buuuut if you wait for a break in the line where a street intersects from your right you can then pull out legally. What a bunch of crap and I believe beatable in court due to inconsistencies

[rrtjp]

Ok. Now the elephant in the room…..Top speed on my cart is 20 mph. I do see it reach 21 mph downhill or in a strong tailwind. EVERYBODY passes me. Should I “adjust” that little spring so I can increase speed by 5 mph?! Probably illegal but it would help a lot of cart drivers behind me better avoid a ticket. A conundrum.

I’m not saying how fast my cart will go, lol. I typically drive around 14 or 15 mph, sometimes slower if I’m just driving around the neighborhood. If someone wants to pass me I pull over when I can and let them pass. I’m never in a hurry to get anywhere. A wise man once said “life moves pretty fast if you don’t slow down and look around once in awhile you just might miss it”. That being said, I like that if I need to pass a very slow biker or walker I can do so quickly and safely then return back to my “Sunday driver” typical speed of 14, 15 mph. IMHO it’s better to have a little extra speed and not need it than to need it and not have it. As far as being illegal to adjust your governor ? You have a better chance at winning the lottery than being pulled over in your cart for speeding. I have never seen any speed traps set up here for golf carts. Drive with caution and have respect for others that share the road or path with you, simple as that, common sense.

[CosmicTrucker]

So our sheriff thinks it’s perfectly safe to stop dead in the middle of the road waiting to turn left but quickly passing a slow vehicle is not. Ring a ding ding.

[Bill14564]

The most ridiculous part is - say you are in the golf cart lane headed south, you want to make a left turn into a street on the northbound side of the street. There is no break in the solid line for you on the southbound side so technically it is illegal for you to cross the line to make your turn. Buuuut if you wait for a break in the line where a street intersects from your right you can then pull out legally. What a bunch of crap and I believe beatable in court due to inconsistencies

Already been covered in a few previous posts.

[Bill14564]

If the Sheriff said it's a violation, why not ask him to quotes the Statute that would appear on the ticket the Deputy Sheriff would put on the ticket you would receive for the violation he/she is citing you for. Typically in Vehicle and Traffic laws vehicles cannot cross solid white lines unless its to avoid an accident.

See post #41 which may have been submitted while you were writing this.

[justjim]

“I have never seen any speed traps set up here for golf carts”. Post #47. I haven’t seen any for a couple of years but there were some a few years prior. There have been approximately a dozen fatalities while in golf carts but none that I heard were caused by speeding. Most tickets are for failing to stop at a stop sign. There are police watching, especially, in the Fruitland Park section of The Villages.

[blueash]

The section of law on the ticket:

(2) Where signs or markings are in place to define a no-passing zone as set forth in subsection (1), a driver may not, at any time, drive on the left side of the roadway within such no-passing zone or on the left side of any pavement striping designed to mark such no-passing zone throughout its length.
(3) This section does not apply to a driver who safely and briefly drives to the left of the center of the roadway only to the extent necessary to:
(a) Avoid an obstruction;
(b) Turn left into or from an alley, a private road, or a driveway; or
(c) Overtake and pass a bicycle or other nonmotorized vehicle or an electric bicycle pursuant to s. 316.083(2) or (3).

It is pretty clear that the solid white line is a pavement striping to mark a no passing zone and that with a few exceptions you cannot drive on its left. Note that you can cross that line to make a turn or avoid obstructions, bicycles, Ebikes and non-motorized vehicles. Note that avoid an obstruction is an allowed exception... see next post

[blueash]

316.2045 Obstruction of public streets, highways, and roads.—
(1)(a) A person may not willfully obstruct the free, convenient, and normal use of a public street, highway, or road by:
1. Impeding, hindering, stifling, retarding, or restraining traffic or passage thereon;


Note that Florida law defines a street as being obstructed when traffic is being impeded, retarded etc. It does not seem to require that traffic be completely blocked for an obstruction to exist.

Could a sharp lawyer make an argument that under the law the slow golf cart represented an impediment and restraint to the normal use of the road. And this statute calls such an impediment an OBSTRUCTION

You're welcome. Now you better be prepared to show that you passed a golf cart that was going very much under the speed limit, not that your souped up illegal cart wanted to fly by a cart going only 18 MPH.

It also might be best to not pull out when there is a cop in the lane, as clearly the person who got the ticket did so in front of a cop

[maistocars]

And then you ask yourself when was the last time you saw any sheriff pull over a golf cart for doing that? Puleeeeze.

[DAVES]

There is a thread on the N***D*** site where someone is claiming to have been issued a ticket for crossing the solid white line of the diamond lane to pass another golf cart.

I did a quick search through this forum thinking that the topic has been discussed already but couldn’t find anything.

An endless topic with different spins to it. People seem to always claim they are right-even when they are wrong. There used to be, likely still is, a monthly presentation by the police dept re: golf cart regulations. That would be a wise place to ask and get proper answers other than OPINIONS.

Passing another golf cart. As I understand it the LEGAL top speed for a golf cart is 20 miles per hour. If, you are passing others there is a good chance YOU are speeding. A street legal golf cart requires PLATES, INSURANCE AND A LICENSED DRIVER.

A typical golf cart is actually a second class vehicle, supposed to yield to cars and even bicycles.

[Hardlyworking]

An endless topic with different spins to it. People seem to always claim they are right-even when they are wrong. There used to be, likely still is, a monthly presentation by the police dept re: golf cart regulations. That would be a wise place to ask and get proper answers other than OPINIONS.

Passing another golf cart. As I understand it the LEGAL top speed for a golf cart is 20 miles per hour. If, you are passing others there is a good chance YOU are speeding. A street legal golf cart requires PLATES, INSURANCE AND A LICENSED DRIVER.

A typical golf cart is actually a second class vehicle, supposed to yield to cars and even bicycles.

Not necessarily. Rental carts are governed at 14 mph. I can pass that on a bicycle.

[Bill14564]

Not necessarily. Rental carts are governed at 14 mph. I can pass that on a bicycle.

Rental carts from where are governed at 14mph? I've rented three carts from two businesses and none were that slow.

[Hardlyworking]

Rental carts from where are governed at 14mph? I've rented three carts from two businesses and none were that slow.

I’ve only had one as a loaner. It couldn’t get out of its own way. Seems a lot of the slower carts are rentals. 14 was a number I’ve heard others mention in the past. Maybe it just seems like 14. Doesn’t really matter, I am not changing how I drive my golf cart.

[fdpaq0580]

Not bicycles, people are hazards.

More accurate than you realize.

[Hape2Bhr]

I’ve seen discussions recently about this as well. So….you’re following a slower moving vehicle in the cart lane. You come upon a side street. The white line is broken crossing the side street. Can you now go into the traffic lane, around the slower cart/bike etc and back into the cart lane?

This exact situation happened to me on Del Mar Drive. I had exited Spanish Springs. After passing through the gate, I was behind a motorized wheelchair moving slower than Fred Sanford. At the first intersection where the white line stopped I pulled out, passed it and pulled back in before the next white line. I was watching for :police:

[Laker14]

316.2045 Obstruction of public streets, highways, and roads.—
(1)(a) A person may not willfully obstruct the free, convenient, and normal use of a public street, highway, or road by:
1. Impeding, hindering, stifling, retarding, or restraining traffic or passage thereon;


Note that Florida law defines a street as being obstructed when traffic is being impeded, retarded etc. It does not seem to require that traffic be completely blocked for an obstruction to exist.

Could a sharp lawyer make an argument that under the law the slow golf cart represented an impediment and restraint to the normal use of the road. And this statute calls such an impediment an OBSTRUCTION

You're welcome. Now you better be prepared to show that you passed a golf cart that was going very much under the speed limit, not that your souped up illegal cart wanted to fly by a cart going only 18 MPH.

It also might be best to not pull out when there is a cop in the lane, as clearly the person who got the ticket did so in front of a cop

Ok, this makes more sense to me. Seems to me in practical application, the only problem you might run into is passing another golf cart, which probably isn't going to be necessary, unless as someone else stated, you feel the need to pass the 18mph golf cart because you want to go 20+.
Bikes are OK to pass, and it's OK to turn left, or to avoid a hazard, which I would assume would include a stopped utility vehicle, or even one going very slowly while spraying or mowing.
I think, personally, I can live with this. But then, I am not one who needs to pass so I can go 20+.

[dewilson58]

Not necessarily. Rental carts are governed at 14 mph.

Fake News.

Family just (last week) rented from The Villages, ran 20 mph.

[Bilyclub]

I might have missed it, but does it say what street and where the ticket was written. I can see the Sheriff taking heat for all the accidents happening on Morse, North of 466.

[jimjamuser]

[QUOTE=Bogie Shooter;2183360]


I guess one has to make a value judgement. What is more valuable? The money I might have to pay on the slim chance I get ticketed, or the time I'll waste over the course of my remaining days on earth waiting for slow traffic?

I'll take my chances passing the bicyclist going 5mph up the incline.
I would just ask, what about the life of the person that you are passing or the person that through NO fault of their own gets hit in a head-on collision? I prefer to take a mental margarita and be HAPPY that I am retired and left that HURRY, hurry stuff in my rearview mirror. But, unfortunately, humans are a creature of habit.

[jimjamuser]

I agree - you are technically spot on. Take the muti-modal trails when you are running late for your tee time!
Some might ask . "whose fault is that LATE business " anyway? Tee times are not quite as important as something important like getting to a hospital or a fireman to a fire. Or Police to a home robbery.

[DaveK]

I have been driving since 1966, and I still remember my driving instructor stating you NEVER cross double yellow lines or solid WHITE lines to pass. On a side note, I see this all the time on Pinellas Place.

VT is correct. I have been driving 12 years longer that him and it was that way when I took Driver's Ed. The rule of law in almost all states is that you are not permitted to cross a solid line of any color. The color only indicates whether there is opposing traffic (yellow) or traffic moving in your direction (white). In the glorious six lanes of traffic in downtown Atlanta, the HOV lane is separated from the other five lanes by a solid white line. Periodically, this solid white line changes to a dashed line where drivers are permitted to exit or enter the HOV lane.

[jimjamuser]

I have been driving since 1966, and I still remember my driving instructor stating you NEVER cross double yellow lines or solid WHITE lines to pass. On a side note, I see this all the time on Pinellas Place.
That just shows that there are NOT enough Police in TV Land. If there were then people would NOT be driving recklessly. Also,, what happens if there is some kind of a "whacko shooter" incident here in The Villages like we are seeing INCREASING around the country? Do we have to wait until they get here from Ocala or Orlando?
......If local Police are NOT numerous enough to stop SIMPLE reckless driving, how can we count on them to provide SAFETY in a serious situation? Is local property taxes NOT high enough to hire MORE officers?

[jimjamuser]

Its most likely NOT that you cannot pass, its that there is not enough diamond lane space to actually pass, without crossing the white lane stripe and then occupying the vehicular traffic lane.
Its the "use" of the vehicular lane by non licensed, slow speed vehicle that's at issue.
Its a technicality,
that as pointed out, land contradictory to driveway/turn lane use by carts or when the cart path ends and merges with vehicular lane as they sometimes do.

Further to the point, what about when walkers that are facing the wrong way, walking in the diamond lane?
On coming cart traffic isn't suppose to drift out and pass them on the outside? Hows that work exactly?

I've encountered some walkers that refuse to even budge an inch, as if right or wrong, a contact encounter with an oncoming cart doing 25mph is somehow going to be a winning situation for them....
Just today, I pulled up to a stop sign in a residential area. As I eased out so that I could see around about a 3 ft diameter hedge plant that someone had planted right up to the street. (maybe to keep cars from turning on their grass or sprinkles). As I SLOWLY pulled out to turn right, I saw a woman walking a dog about 25 % into the street and walking toward me. Suddenly, I saw a car coming fast and the driver had pulled around the lady and was full out IN the lane of the 2 lane street that I intended to turn into. If I had taken the turn like some people do in a rolling stop, he would have hit me. If I had NOT been paying attention and driving defensively and braked hard, he would have hit me.
....... So my bigger question is...........Why would someone plant a bush near a stop sign and close to the street so that a car can not see to their right? And why do NOT the community service people driving around have the AUTHORITY and competence to be able to FORESEE problems in advance - that the landscaping in peoples' yards can cause an accident. I have seen MORE than one situation where landscaping can CAUSE an accident. I have NEVER in 10 years heard that Community Service issued a warning ticket about PASSIVE SAFETY issues like that !

[jimjamuser]

Whats the worry, I watch cars, lawn service, UPS, and USPS trucks exhilarating, crossing the double yellow, to get ahead of the merging golf cart traffic, that has already merged, all over the Villages.

Guessing they aren’t worried about a potential ticket
Again, we need more Police and dedicated ones because if they MISS the little things, they are going to MESS up the life and death emergencies.

[Bogie Shooter]

Just today, I pulled up to a stop sign in a residential area. As I eased out so that I could see around about a 3 ft diameter hedge plant that someone had planted right up to the street. (maybe to keep cars from turning on their grass or sprinkles). As I SLOWLY pulled out to turn right, I saw a woman walking a dog about 25 % into the street and walking toward me. Suddenly, I saw a car coming fast and the driver had pulled around the lady and was full out IN the lane of the 2 lane street that I intended to turn into. If I had taken the turn like some people do in a rolling stop, he would have hit me. If I had NOT been paying attention and driving defensively and braked hard, he would have hit me.
....... So my bigger question is...........Why would someone plant a bush near a stop sign and close to the street so that a car can not see to their right? And why do NOT the community service people driving around have the AUTHORITY and competence to be able to FORESEE problems in advance - that the landscaping in peoples' yards can cause an accident. I have seen MORE than one situation where landscaping can CAUSE an accident. I have NEVER in 10 years heard that Community Service issued a warning ticket about PASSIVE SAFETY issues like that !

Maybe they could answer your questions. Your observation is serious enough to let them know.

Community Watch
1135 Bonita Boulevard
The Villages, FL 32162

Phone: 352-753-0550

[Papa_lecki]

I might have missed it, but does it say what street and where the ticket was written. I can see the Sheriff taking heat for all the accidents happening on Morse, North of 466.

I’m calling fake news….

Officer to golf cart driver: license and uuuh regis…drivers license please?
golf cart driver: i dont need a driver’s license to operate a golf cart
Officer: name
Golf cart driver: My name is Chi Chi Sanchez
….
Get the point, to whom do you write the ticker, what’s the penalty? Fine? Don’t share your address? Loss of license?

[JMintzer]

Fake News.

Family just (last week) rented from The Villages, ran 20 mph.

They admitted they weren't sure about the speed in a subsequent post...

[sad_sack]

To the OP - What is N***D***? Why don't you spell it out to begin with?

[JMintzer]

To the OP - What is N***D***? Why don't you spell it out to begin with?

N e x t D o o r. The software here does prohibit certain words/phrases. Don't know if that is one of them...

[Hardlyworking]

Fake News.

Family just (last week) rented from The Villages, ran 20 mph.

Just stating my experience.

[jimjamuser]

If there is no traffic to hit you and no officer to give you a ticket then yes. (if a tree falls in the woods and no one is around to hear it.....)

How about if you are in a car on a two-way road with a solid yellow line to your left. When you come to an intersection the solid yellow line is broken for the length of the intersection. Can you now go into the oncoming lane, around the slower car in front of you, then back into your lane (pass in an intersection)?
No, Not really.

[jimjamuser]

Bicycles are hazards.
Not so. Bicycles transport people without pollution or using gasoline and thus keep the cost of gasoline down. So, bicyclists are to be PRAISED.

[Number 10 GI]

You aren't required to have a drivers license to drive a golf cart in Florida. You aren't required to take any test, or read any manual.

I never said a person needed a driver's license to operate a golf cart, I was pointing out where it could be found that crossing a white line to pass is illegal. Someone was wanting a source.
It is in the best interest of anyone operating a golf cart or even a bicycle to know the applicable traffic laws. When a person is operating their cart or a bicycle on a public street, they are required to obey the law. Ignorance of the traffic laws is no excuse and can be detrimental to your physical health and detrimental to the financial health of your wallet.

[jimjamuser]

Ok. Now the elephant in the room…..Top speed on my cart is 20 mph. I do see it reach 21 mph downhill or in a strong tailwind. EVERYBODY passes me. Should I “adjust” that little spring so I can increase speed by 5 mph?! Probably illegal but it would help a lot of cart drivers behind me better avoid a ticket. A conundrum.
So should you break a law (raise speed) to keep someone else from breaking the law and speeding? A better solution would be for the Police to stop Golf cars OFTEN and check to see if the owner has been jerking around and setting the speed up illegally. That is another problem that COULD be solved by MORE and dedicated Police.
.......I RARELY see ANY Police driving in the residential areas and I see both carts and other vehicles speeding. Basically there are little apprehensions or equipment fines, so it is NO wonder that reckless driving happens.

[photo1902]

So should you break a law (raise speed) to keep someone else from breaking the law and speeding? A better solution would be for the Police to stop Golf cars OFTEN and check to see if the owner has been jerking around and setting the speed up illegally. That is another problem that COULD be solved by MORE and dedicated Police.
.......I RARELY see ANY Police driving in the residential areas and I see both carts and other vehicles speeding. Basically there are little apprehensions or equipment fines, so it is NO wonder that reckless driving happens.
Such a drama queen

[dewilson58]

So should you break a law (raise speed) to keep someone else from breaking the law and speeding? A better solution would be for the Police to stop Golf cars OFTEN and check to see if the owner has been jerking around and setting the speed up illegally. That is another problem that COULD be solved by MORE and dedicated Police.
.......I RARELY see ANY Police driving in the residential areas and I see both carts and other vehicles speeding. Basically there are little apprehensions or equipment fines, so it is NO wonder that reckless driving happens.

Maybe back off the coffee a bit.

:ho:

[jimjamuser]

I wish the police would ticket any golf cart doing over 20 miles per hour instead. Would bring some good money in and penalize people who are, in very certain terms, breaking the law.
Agreed. There is a need for Carts to have the same speed limit. I have seen them going 30 mph or more in a 25-zone. Gas golf carts have a high center of gravity so need to have a LOW speed limit.

[jimjamuser]

[rhetorical] What does this say about a society that "lets criminals steal several hundred dollars worth of retail items and run away without challenge?" And then tickets an "otherwise law-abiding citizen for crossing a solid white line to go on their way?"

"Common sense" is no longer valued or exercised among a vast majority of our hideous population.
That is basically "what-about-ism". Both situations are wrong.

[Bogie Shooter]

Such a drama queen

Maybe back off the coffee a bit.

:ho:

:1rotfl:

[jimjamuser]

Such a drama queen
Such a dramatic INSULT.

[jjombrello]

I doubt it. Been on the books a long time. They cover this in the AARP safe driving classes.

[bark4me]

Read the drivers license test manual. It's pretty universal in the U.S. that you don't cross a solid white line. I believe in some states a solid white line is considered a Traffic Control Device.
You are 💯 % correct. It is considered a "Traffic Control Device" in the state of Fla

[tuccillo]

Do you realize that the police cannot stop you without probable cause ? So, let me see how this is going to work. The police are going to illegally stop people in their golf cart and then they are going to force you out of the cart while they take it for a ride to see if it exceeds a certain speed ? So, they are going to block off a lane of the road with traffic cones so they can conduct these speed tests ? Yeah, I can see this happening. LOL.

So should you break a law (raise speed) to keep someone else from breaking the law and speeding? A better solution would be for the Police to stop Golf cars OFTEN and check to see if the owner has been jerking around and setting the speed up illegally. That is another problem that COULD be solved by MORE and dedicated Police.
.......I RARELY see ANY Police driving in the residential areas and I see both carts and other vehicles speeding. Basically there are little apprehensions or equipment fines, so it is NO wonder that reckless driving happens.

[DARFAP]

You most likely will have to use some diamond lanes to get to those multimodals.

[Hardlyworking]

Do you realize that the police cannot stop you without probable cause ? So, let me see how this is going to work. The police are going to illegally stop people in their golf cart and then they are going to force you out of the cart while they take it for a ride to see if it exceeds a certain speed ? So, they are going to block off a lane of the road with traffic cones so they can conduct these speed tests ? Yeah, I can see this happening.

You have to consider the source.

[Garywt]

I tend not to pass carts anywhere, don’t see the need nor do I feel it should be allowed. Carts that pass are generally going 25-25 mph but that is a different subject. Staying behind a bike or the like would be troublesome for all, some of these people struggle to keep moving forward never mind keeping up some speed.

Like people have said in the past, one cart behind you they have the issue, multiple carts Ling up behind you, you are the issue.

[JMintzer]

Not so. Bicycles transport people without pollution or using gasoline and thus keep the cost of gasoline down. So, bicyclists are to be PRAISED.

That doesn't change his assertion... They can still be hazards...

[JMintzer]

Agreed. There is a need for Carts to have the same speed limit. I have seen them going 30 mph or more in a 25-zone. Gas golf carts have a high center of gravity so need to have a LOW speed limit.

Wait, I thought it was 40 mph...

[Laker14]

Wait, I thought it was 40 mph...

those are the electric carts that don't cause pollution.

[Altavia]

Agreed. There is a need for Carts to have the same speed limit. I have seen them going 30 mph or more in a 25-zone. Gas golf carts have a high center of gravity so need to have a LOW speed limit.

Perhaps this was a case where it was clear the passing cart was going 20+ but without proof, the no passing ticket was issued.

Especially if the offender exhibited bad attitude during the stop.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I never said a person needed a driver's license to operate a golf cart, I was pointing out where it could be found that crossing a white line to pass is illegal. Someone was wanting a source.
It is in the best interest of anyone operating a golf cart or even a bicycle to know the applicable traffic laws. When a person is operating their cart or a bicycle on a public street, they are required to obey the law. Ignorance of the traffic laws is no excuse and can be detrimental to your physical health and detrimental to the financial health of your wallet.

Pretty sure the law requires you to wear your seatbelts. Most golf carts in the Villages don't have seatbelts. The driving manual applies to people who drive cars. There is also a motorcycle driving manual that applies to people who drive motorcycles. There's yet another one for tractor-trailer drivers. There is no mandatory golf car driving manual. The rules for golf carts are different, because they have different minimum standards, and different driving conditions. Cars aren't supposed to drive on the shoulder of a road. Golf cars are required to drive on the shoulder of the road.

Never use a manual for one thing, as an instruction book for another.

[JGibson]

I'm still curious why the OP tried to hide the spelling of the social media site of the source?

[Marathon Man]

Perhaps this was a case where it was clear the passing cart was going 20+ but without proof, the no passing ticket was issued.

Especially if the offender exhibited bad attitude during the stop.

That was my thought also.

[HIgolfers]

If the Sheriff said it's a violation, why not ask him to quotes the Statute that would appear on the ticket the Deputy Sheriff would put on the ticket you would receive for the violation he/she is citing you for. Typically in Vehicle and Traffic laws vehicles cannot cross solid white lines unless its to avoid an accident.

It does cite the statute!

[JMintzer]

those are the electric carts that don't cause pollution.

Ahhh... Of course...

[JMintzer]

I'm still curious why the OP tried to hide the spelling of the social media site of the source?

Explained in post #74

[Bogie Shooter]

You have to consider the source.

:1rotfl:

[jimjamuser]

Maybe back off the coffee a bit.

:ho:
Thanks, Tom Cruise and I have one small thing in common............we BOTH have a "NEED for SPEED".
.........Of course, I am SLIGHTLY better looking, and a LOT TALLER !

[jimjamuser]

Do you realize that the police cannot stop you without probable cause ? So, let me see how this is going to work. The police are going to illegally stop people in their golf cart and then they are going to force you out of the cart while they take it for a ride to see if it exceeds a certain speed ? So, they are going to block off a lane of the road with traffic cones so they can conduct these speed tests ? Yeah, I can see this happening. LOL.
There is ALWAYS a gulf / a difference between what is IDEALLY right and what IS practical. LEOs would NOT have to stop 100% of the carts to check them - maybe 10%. then by word of mouth and FINES, people would set their speed back to 20MPH. Actually, I would not care if EVERY CART was set at 25 MPH. Just AGREE on a low speed because gas Carts have a HIGH center of gravity and make (some chosen speed) UNIVERSAL in TV Land.
......Actually, that is SO LOGICAL that I think that even TV Land would go for that !
.......Not to mention, that it would be a safety situation and save lives. Wouldn't THAT be nice?

And, of course, as far as probable cause goes. I think that a LEO could EYEBALL a passing golf cart and KNOW when they are going 30 to 40 MPH. Even I can do that and I am OLD. ALSO, they have speed guns, I believe.

[coffeebean]

You will find these words in the Florida Statutes:
However, this subsection shall not be construed as prohibiting the crossing of the centerline in making a left turn into or from an alley, private road, or driveway.

Well........is it a construance (probably not a real word but WTH) when passing a slow moving vehicle or a bicyclist traveling 5 MPH in the diamond lane? Even I pass a really slow moving vehicle and my golf cart goes a whopping 19.9 MPH on a straight-away.

[jimjamuser]

I tend not to pass carts anywhere, don’t see the need nor do I feel it should be allowed. Carts that pass are generally going 25-25 mph but that is a different subject. Staying behind a bike or the like would be troublesome for all, some of these people struggle to keep moving forward never mind keeping up some speed.

Like people have said in the past, one cart behind you they have the issue, multiple carts Ling up behind you, you are the issue.
I would just PULL OVER because I am retired and NO LONGER in a hurry - racing with my "hair on fire". Actually, I don't have any hair TO catch on fire.

[coffeebean]

Deb Penney LeMay On Villages FB group posted her being ticketed for passing a slow cart. She can probably get it tossed if she takes it to court. The solid white line designates the multi modal lane. It does not define a no passing zone.
Deputy Fife needs to get a clue and stop harassing law abiding Villagers.

I've always thought the solid white line is to define the diamond lane from the vehicular roadway. It never even crossed my mind that the solid while line defining the diamond lane could not be crossed. I don't do it often, but I see faster carts doing it all the time when they pass me in my turtle golf cart.

[coffeebean]

Ok. Now the elephant in the room…..Top speed on my cart is 20 mph. I do see it reach 21 mph downhill or in a strong tailwind. EVERYBODY passes me. Should I “adjust” that little spring so I can increase speed by 5 mph?! Probably illegal but it would help a lot of cart drivers behind me better avoid a ticket. A conundrum.

What little spring? Is your cart gas or electric?

[jimjamuser]

Perhaps this was a case where it was clear the passing cart was going 20+ but without proof, the no passing ticket was issued.

Especially if the offender exhibited bad attitude during the stop.
It has been said that ATTITUDE is EVERYTHING in life. I would say that it is very important.

[jimjamuser]

I've always thought the solid white line is to define the diamond lane from the vehicular roadway. It never even crossed my mind that the solid while line defining the diamond lane could not be crossed. I don't do it often, but I see faster carts doing it all the time when they pass me in my turtle golf cart.
"Turtle Golf Carts do NOT roll over as much as the HOT ROD faster types do. Be glad that they are SAFER - NOT to mention that the ones with jacked-up governors are flushing too much fuel through their piston cylinders and will NOT be reliable if kept for years and years as the NORMAL 20 MPH. And also not to mention, that the faster Carts are SPEWING more POLLUTANTS into the atmosphere than about 5 newer automobiles!

[Altavia]

I've always thought the solid white line is to define the diamond lane from the vehicular roadway. It never even crossed my mind that the solid while line defining the diamond lane could not be crossed. I don't do it often, but I see faster carts doing it all the time when they pass me in my turtle golf cart.

Same here, "assumed" it applied to automobiles to keep them out of the diamond lane.

[Number 10 GI]

Pretty sure the law requires you to wear your seatbelts. Most golf carts in the Villages don't have seatbelts. The driving manual applies to people who drive cars. There is also a motorcycle driving manual that applies to people who drive motorcycles. There's yet another one for tractor-trailer drivers. There is no mandatory golf car driving manual. The rules for golf carts are different, because they have different minimum standards, and different driving conditions. Cars aren't supposed to drive on the shoulder of a road. Golf cars are required to drive on the shoulder of the road.

Never use a manual for one thing, as an instruction book for another.

ALL vehicles, cars, trucks, street sweepers, golf carts, motorcycles, tricycles, bicycles, and whatever operating on the roadways have to follow the same basic traffic laws. Stopping at stop signs, not passing in prohibited area, observing the speed limit, signaling turn intent, required vehicle lighting, proper lane usage, etc. I'd like to see someone argue with a cop that running a redlight with your golf cart is legal because there isn't a golf cart manual.

By the way, our cart has seat belts and we use them.

[tuccillo]

I'll repeat myself: the police can't stop you without probable cause. Stopping someone for speeding is different than stopping someone when they have not violated any laws. What part of that do you not understand?

There is ALWAYS a gulf / a difference between what is IDEALLY right and what IS practical. LEOs would NOT have to stop 100% of the carts to check them - maybe 10%. then by word of mouth and FINES, people would set their speed back to 20MPH. Actually, I would not care if EVERY CART was set at 25 MPH. Just AGREE on a low speed because gas Carts have a HIGH center of gravity and make (some chosen speed) UNIVERSAL in TV Land.
......Actually, that is SO LOGICAL that I think that even TV Land would go for that !
.......Not to mention, that it would be a safety situation and save lives. Wouldn't THAT be nice?

And, of course, as far as probable cause goes. I think that a LEO could EYEBALL a passing golf cart and KNOW when they are going 30 to 40 MPH. Even I can do that and I am OLD. ALSO, they have speed guns, I believe.

[coffeebean]

This exact situation happened to me on Del Mar Drive. I had exited Spanish Springs. After passing through the gate, I was behind a motorized wheelchair moving slower than Fred Sanford. At the first intersection where the white line stopped I pulled out, passed it and pulled back in before the next white line. I was watching for :police:

Waiting for a break in the stripe may not work with the traffic that you must avoid. You could go for several blocks before the break in the line and the traffic is clear. Seems silly not to be able to pass a slower moving vehicle when the traffic is clear even if it means crossing over the solid white line that marks the diamond lane.

[JMintzer]

There is ALWAYS a gulf / a difference between what is IDEALLY right and what IS practical. LEOs would NOT have to stop 100% of the carts to check them - maybe 10%. then by word of mouth and FINES, people would set their speed back to 20MPH. Actually, I would not care if EVERY CART was set at 25 MPH. Just AGREE on a low speed because gas Carts have a HIGH center of gravity and make (some chosen speed) UNIVERSAL in TV Land.
......Actually, that is SO LOGICAL that I think that even TV Land would go for that !
.......Not to mention, that it would be a safety situation and save lives. Wouldn't THAT be nice?

And, of course, as far as probable cause goes. I think that a LEO could EYEBALL a passing golf cart and KNOW when they are going 30 to 40 MPH. Even I can do that and I am OLD. ALSO, they have speed guns, I believe.

You really expect us to believe you've "eyeballed" golf carts going 40 mph?

[JMintzer]

"Turtle Golf Carts do NOT roll over as much as the HOT ROD faster types do. Be glad that they are SAFER - NOT to mention that the ones with jacked-up governors are flushing too much fuel through their piston cylinders and will NOT be reliable if kept for years and years as the NORMAL 20 MPH. And also not to mention, that the faster Carts are SPEWING more POLLUTANTS into the atmosphere than about 5 newer automobiles!

What brand "electric" golf cart do you drive?

[Hardlyworking]

You really expect us to believe you've "eyeballed" golf carts going 40 mph?

I don’t believe anything he says. He’s blocked so I don’t have to see the nonsense. Except when someone quotes him.

[Laker14]

I don’t believe anything he says. He’s blocked so I don’t have to see the nonsense. Except when someone quotes him.

I've blocked him too.
I think he just wants to engage in arguments.

[Bilyclub]

I don’t believe anything he says. He’s blocked so I don’t have to see the nonsense. Except when someone quotes him.

I've blocked him too.
I think he just wants to engage in arguments.


I'm getting close to blocking. He's been on a bad roll lately. If you block you won't see
when the greatly deserved time out happens.

[coffeebean]

Maybe back off the coffee a bit.

:ho:

I have been told that a few times on this forum. (Hence, my user name). LOL.

[Hardlyworking]

I'm getting close to blocking. He's been on a bad roll lately. If you block you won't see
when the greatly deserved time out happens.

Someone will let everyone know.

[jimjamuser]

I'm getting close to blocking. He's been on a bad roll lately. If you block you won't see
when the greatly deserved time out happens.
That guy merely expresses legitimate opinions that happen to be slightly different than the mainstream "Rah, rah, rah" stuff saying that EVERYTHING is wonderful in TV Land. If you live here long enough you will see MANY, MANY things that could EASILY be improved. It is a difficult job, but SOMEONE has to DO it !

[JMintzer]

That guy merely expresses legitimate opinions that happen to be slightly different than the mainstream "Rah, rah, rah" stuff saying that EVERYTHING is wonderful in TV Land. If you live here long enough you will see MANY, MANY things that could EASILY be improved. It is a difficult job, but SOMEONE has to DO it !

"That guy"?

Really? :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl: