How much extra would you pay for AWESOME executive conditions?

[Papa_lecki]

There are a lot of posts here about course conditions. If the amenity authority would make the conditions on the executives awesome, how much extra would you pay in you monthly amenity fee?

[dewilson58]

$$$$ is part of the problem

Golfers are the other problem

Would have to eliminate A LOT of golfers

[Bogie Shooter]

Plus the weather.

[Pairadocs]

$$$$ is part of the problem

Golfers are the other problem

Would have to eliminate A LOT of golfers

That's for sure ! How L in the world would even MORE money stop people from driving RIGHT ON the green ! How would it stop people who enter a trap at the HIGHEST point, and then collapse the entire collar as they attempt to climb out the same way ? What do you do about people who drag flag poles across the green ? Those who STEP directly on the HOLE as they pull the pole ? No, think you could throw money at that monthly and never stop it. HOW are such things stopped (never entirely) on PUBLIC courses ... the rangers DO THEIR JOBS and don't try to pose as "good will" ambassadors. Probably SAVE enough money to pay their own salaries, not to mention the expense of sitting quietly and watching the courses be torn up...after all, as long as the repairs and maintenance come out of OTHER peoples' money. Hey need even more ? Just raise the monthly fees, there's always MORE where that came from, who cares about enforcing RESPECT. Respect for property is kind of "old fashioned" anyway.

[MSchad]

There are a lot of posts here about course conditions. If the amenity authority would make the conditions on the executives awesome, how much extra would you pay in you monthly amenity fee?
Are you asking this donation from non golfers also?

[Papa_lecki]

Are you asking this donation from non golfers also?

It’s not a donation. It was a hypothetical, amenitity fees are raised by $10/25/50 a month, yes, everyone pays amenities fees.

[Papa_lecki]

That's for sure ! How L in the world would even MORE money stop people from driving RIGHT ON the green ! How would it stop people who enter a trap at the HIGHEST point, and then collapse the entire collar as they attempt to climb out the same way ? What do you do about people who drag flag poles across the green ? Those who STEP directly on the HOLE as they pull the pole ? No, think you could throw money at that monthly and never stop it. HOW are such things stopped (never entirely) on PUBLIC courses ... the rangers DO THEIR JOBS and don't try to pose as "good will" ambassadors. Probably SAVE enough money to pay their own salaries, not to mention the expense of sitting quietly and watching the courses be torn up...after all, as long as the repairs and maintenance come out of OTHER peoples' money. Hey need even more ? Just raise the monthly fees, there's always MORE where that came from, who cares about enforcing RESPECT. Respect for property is kind of "old fashioned" anyway.

Agree, many golfers are a problem.
Would we hire more marshals, train them and empower them to enforce rules?

[Battlebasset]

Take some of the executive courses, add the appropriate per round fee to do all the things you think should be done, and see who pays it. A fee would also serve the purpose of removing all of the casual golfers that create the damage you note.

Just like toll roads, if you use it, pay for it. Don't ask others to pay for it.

[Babubhat]

Not possible with the volume of play and letting carts park almost on greens. Put a white line in front where no carts can travel regardless of status

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Agree, many golfers are a problem.
Would we hire more marshals, train them and empower them to enforce rules?

They can't be empowered to enforce the rules. You and what army is going to tell some self-entitled US [insert armed forces] here who served in [insert war here] and pays his amenity fees just like everyone else that he can't park his "disabled" self in the middle of a waterlogged muddy hill toward the fairway because he overshot the last hole by 20 yards? Remember - he has a Big Bertha in his hand. You - do not. And to assuage the sensitivities of the actually disabled and the actual veterans: a lot of these folks aren't either. They just pretend they are, so that they can get the discounts, or the better seats, or the "thank you for your service" comments. And some of them just like the hats. And some of these entitled people don't pretend anything. They just believe in their heart of hearts that they are superior to everyone else, and can do as they please, and the rules apply to others, not them.

Check his ID and issue him a citation? What if he's on a lifestyle visit? How will you collect on the fine when he says "yeah I'm not paying it, good luck with that?"

There are a LOT of people who think just because they're disabled, or veterans, or both, that they are entitled to privileges that the commoners aren't entitled to. When it comes to government funding then I agree. They have earned more, there. But this is private property. They should either follow the rules, or build their own golf course and make up their own rules for it.

But there's no way to enforce this, because ambassadors aren't police officers. They guide, they suggest, they request. But they don't order.

[Psacc0]

There are a lot of posts here about course conditions. If the amenity authority would make the conditions on the executives awesome, how much extra would you pay in you monthly amenity fee?

It would seem that the executive courses may be getting additional money as people drop off the Priority program and start to pay the Trail Fee program. We did this because the Priority plan changed to no longer cover the trail fee; but the price didn’t reduce because it was explained that Trail fees were not an actual allocation passed over to the executive courses, but rather an added perk.

[Tvflguy]

There are a lot of posts here about course conditions. If the amenity authority would make the conditions on the executives awesome, how much extra would you pay in you monthly amenity fee?

I hope that you are simply developing a Strawman. Imagine if non-swimmers or tennis or pickle ball or, you name it were forced to pay more amenity $$$$ to ensure pristine conditions on their field of play. Uproar.

Same for Exec golf. Don’t know the % of non golfers in TV, but must be 50%. So have those folks pay even more for us to have velvet greens etc etc. Nope. And removing “free golf” would be nasty for TV marketing.

I have seen green conditions overall as poor on execs, but tough to improve this time of year. We play execs 3X week, and although it would be great to have pristine conditions, with the amount of play execs get this time of year, so be it.

[JMintzer]

They can't be empowered to enforce the rules. You and what army is going to tell some self-entitled US [insert armed forces] here who served in [insert war here] and pays his amenity fees just like everyone else that he can't park his "disabled" self in the middle of a waterlogged muddy hill toward the fairway because he overshot the last hole by 20 yards? Remember - he has a Big Bertha in his hand. You - do not. And to assuage the sensitivities of the actually disabled and the actual veterans: a lot of these folks aren't either. They just pretend they are, so that they can get the discounts, or the better seats, or the "thank you for your service" comments. And some of them just like the hats. And some of these entitled people don't pretend anything. They just believe in their heart of hearts that they are superior to everyone else, and can do as they please, and the rules apply to others, not them.

Check his ID and issue him a citation? What if he's on a lifestyle visit? How will you collect on the fine when he says "yeah I'm not paying it, good luck with that?"

There are a LOT of people who think just because they're disabled, or veterans, or both, that they are entitled to privileges that the commoners aren't entitled to. When it comes to government funding then I agree. They have earned more, there. But this is private property. They should either follow the rules, or build their own golf course and make up their own rules for it.

But there's no way to enforce this, because ambassadors aren't police officers. They guide, they suggest, they request. But they don't order.

Your distain for veterans and their "disabilities" is duly noted...

In reality, it would be quite easy to identify who is committing any infractions on the course.

The starter has your name and a description of your cart before you tee off.

Once out on the course, they can easily track who is on what hole.

While I agree that fines will be difficult to assess, one could easily suspend someones ability to book a tee-time after a set number of infractions...

You would know that if you actually played golf...

[dewilson58]

Summary (could have predicted):

95% will not pay a dime.

Same 95% jus complain.

:pepper2:

[karostay]

I observed a golfer on Tarpon Boil Thursday pushing a golf cart over the surface of 50% of the greens
any other golf course you would be tossed out

[Papa_lecki]

I hope that you are simply developing a Strawman. Imagine if non-swimmers or tennis or pickle ball or, you name it were forced to pay more amenity $$$$ to ensure pristine conditions on their field of play. Uproar.

Same for Exec golf. Don’t know the % of non golfers in TV, but must be 50%. So have those folks pay even more for us to have velvet greens etc etc. Nope. And removing “free golf” would be nasty for TV marketing.

I have seen green conditions overall as poor on execs, but tough to improve this time of year. We play execs 3X week, and although it would be great to have pristine conditions, with the amount of play execs get this time of year, so be it.

It was as straw man, I am not going to lobby for this to happen, it never will.

What if I asked “would you be willing to pay an extra $25 a month to replace the 25Yard pool with 50 Meter pools? Or add heaters to the family pools? Or put a 6mm cushion on all the pickle courts to save knees? Or anything for any of the other clubs/amenities?

[ThirdOfFive]

That's for sure ! How L in the world would even MORE money stop people from driving RIGHT ON the green ! How would it stop people who enter a trap at the HIGHEST point, and then collapse the entire collar as they attempt to climb out the same way ? What do you do about people who drag flag poles across the green ? Those who STEP directly on the HOLE as they pull the pole ? No, think you could throw money at that monthly and never stop it. HOW are such things stopped (never entirely) on PUBLIC courses ... the rangers DO THEIR JOBS and don't try to pose as "good will" ambassadors. Probably SAVE enough money to pay their own salaries, not to mention the expense of sitting quietly and watching the courses be torn up...after all, as long as the repairs and maintenance come out of OTHER peoples' money. Hey need even more ? Just raise the monthly fees, there's always MORE where that came from, who cares about enforcing RESPECT. Respect for property is kind of "old fashioned" anyway.
Agree.

We played with a couple from Wisconsin a couple of weeks ago. Snowbirds, here for a couple of months. Nice people but didn't know some of the rules that Villagers take for granted. Like driving carts onto fairways without a handicapped identification, fixing ball marks on the greens, clearing the area around the greens when done and go on to the next tee so the people behind can hit, etc. We were pleasant about it, giving a couple of reminders. They seemed grateful that we told them.

[Rainger99]

Agree.

We played with a couple from Wisconsin a couple of weeks ago. Snowbirds, here for a couple of months. Nice people but didn't know some of the rules that Villagers take for granted. Like driving carts onto fairways without a handicapped identification, fixing ball marks on the greens, clearing the area around the greens when done and go on to the next tee so the people behind can hit, etc. We were pleasant about it, giving a couple of reminders. They seemed grateful that we told them.

For people that don't know the rules (and there are many people here that just started playing golf), there should be a handout at each starter shack that is given to people - along with verbal instructions pointing out the major rules.

I agree that some people will just ignore it but I think most people would appreciate the information. They do seem more concerned about whether you are wearing a collared shirt rather than if you are taking good care of the course.

[JMintzer]

I observed a golfer on Tarpon Boil Thursday pushing a golf cart over the surface of 50% of the greens
any other golf course you would be tossed out

Did you call the starter shack? If not, they may not have known...

[swooner]

$$$$ is part of the problem

Golfers are the other problem

Would have to eliminate A LOT of golfers
You are really helpful. You know everything

[JMintzer]

You are really helpful. You know everything

Nice insult...

[kcrazorbackfan]

They can't be empowered to enforce the rules. You and what army is going to tell some self-entitled US [insert armed forces] here who served in [insert war here] and pays his amenity fees just like everyone else that he can't park his "disabled" self in the middle of a waterlogged muddy hill toward the fairway because he overshot the last hole by 20 yards? Remember - he has a Big Bertha in his hand. You - do not. And to assuage the sensitivities of the actually disabled and the actual veterans: a lot of these folks aren't either. They just pretend they are, so that they can get the discounts, or the better seats, or the "thank you for your service" comments. And some of them just like the hats. And some of these entitled people don't pretend anything. They just believe in their heart of hearts that they are superior to everyone else, and can do as they please, and the rules apply to others, not them.

Check his ID and issue him a citation? What if he's on a lifestyle visit? How will you collect on the fine when he says "yeah I'm not paying it, good luck with that?"

There are a LOT of people who think just because they're disabled, or veterans, or both, that they are entitled to privileges that the commoners aren't entitled to. When it comes to government funding then I agree. They have earned more, there. But this is private property. They should either follow the rules, or build their own golf course and make up their own rules for it.

But there's no way to enforce this, because ambassadors aren't police officers. They guide, they suggest, they request. But they don't order.

That was an excellent description…

[MrChip72]

I'm not convinced that throwing money at the problem would make things better. I've played a ton of busy municipal courses in North America with low budgets that were in great condition compared to many of the TV courses. Maybe their maintenance program is just better, maybe grass and irrigation selection is better.

[George Page]

Given the quality and etiquette of golfers on the executive courses, better course conditions are not unachievable.

[phousel]

They can't be empowered to enforce the rules. You and what army is going to tell some self-entitled US [insert armed forces] here who served in [insert war here] and pays his amenity fees just like everyone else that he can't park his "disabled" self in the middle of a waterlogged muddy hill toward the fairway because he overshot the last hole by 20 yards? Remember - he has a Big Bertha in his hand. You - do not. And to assuage the sensitivities of the actually disabled and the actual veterans: a lot of these folks aren't either. They just pretend they are, so that they can get the discounts, or the better seats, or the "thank you for your service" comments. And some of them just like the hats. And some of these entitled people don't pretend anything. They just believe in their heart of hearts that they are superior to everyone else, and can do as they please, and the rules apply to others, not them.

Check his ID and issue him a citation? What if he's on a lifestyle visit? How will you collect on the fine when he says "yeah I'm not paying it, good luck with that?"

There are a LOT of people who think just because they're disabled, or veterans, or both, that they are entitled to privileges that the commoners aren't entitled to. When it comes to government funding then I agree. They have earned more, there. But this is private property. They should either follow the rules, or build their own golf course and make up their own rules for it.

But there's no way to enforce this, because ambassadors aren't police officers. They guide, they suggest, they request. But they don't order.
Wow!

[mikeycereal]

They just believe in their heart of hearts

:rolleyes:

barf

[gbennethum]

$$$$ is part of the problem

Golfers are the other problem

Would have to eliminate A LOT of golfers

Yes very true, no more big groups taking up all the tee times and everyone pays a trail fee.

[TheWarriors]

How about limiting each Villager limited to two rounds per week, perhaps that would lighten the traffic on the courses. End result would be better playing conditions, trade off is you can’t play 10 rounds a week. Courses outside the Villages are self policing due to greens fees. People only play a couple times a week or less because the cost is prohibitive.

[jnsbill]

we know people wont fix their ball marks & they'll drive wherever they please and the courses get a lot of play but how about the course maintenance dept just concentrate on getting rid of the numerous weeds and bare spots on the greens?

[Bogie Shooter]

How about limiting each Villager limited to two rounds per week, perhaps that would lighten the traffic on the courses. End result would be better playing conditions, trade off is you can’t play 10 rounds a week. Courses outside the Villages are self policing due to greens fees. People only play a couple times a week or less because the cost is prohibitive.

If I don't play, can I sell my unused tee time?

[srswans]

There are a lot of posts here about course conditions. If the amenity authority would make the conditions on the executives awesome, how much extra would you pay in you monthly amenity fee?

We have this “pay more for better conditions” system already - Championship courses.

[Papa_lecki]

From these posts, it seems like we could improve conditions with some relatively inexpensive measures.

I don’t think they will
1)ever limit number of rounds (the number of executive courses needs to catch up to the population)
2)ever ‘kick someone off’ for behavior (i.e. driving too close to green)

What they could do
1) if you have less than a certain number of points in a period (6 months, 12 months) the starter gives you a nicely laminated card with pictographs of acceptable behavior (cart away from green, stay on cart path, how to enter a bunker, rake bunker, etc) - simple, maybe 4 or 5 etiquette things
2) increase the rate of the Marshall’s rotation, have them fixing ball marks (vs someone fixing ball mark wrong); fill divots on tee boxes and observing behavior
3) implement an email system, Marshall sees Mr Jones driving on the green, marshal has tee sheet and know Mr Jones has a green golf cart - Mr Jones gets a nice email, please keep cart off green, if you need help getting handicap placard, call this number
4) make good golf school more accessible - maybe run them at the putting greens at some of the executives, have ambassadors handing out flyers, etc.

These would cost SOME money, but not a fortune.
any other, productive, inexpensive ideas?

[NoMo50]

Your idea, while interesting, could never achieve success. Why? The executive courses here receive an incredible amount of play pressure, especially during snowbird season. Pressure, as in, every course booked solid...every day.

If the maintenance crews were somehow presented with a mountain of extra cash to work magic, each course would have to be closed for some period of time in order to work that magic. That would result in even more pressure on the courses remaining open, and fewer overall tee times. This is already done, to some extent, during the summer months. Many courses get shut down for weeks at a time to repair damage done during the high season.

Ever seen a dog chasing it's tail?

[rsimpson]

I observed a golfer on Tarpon Boil Thursday pushing a golf cart over the surface of 50% of the greens
any other golf course you would be tossed out

I walk all courses here with a push cart. I weigh 160 lbs. The cart weighs maybe 40 lbs with the bag and clubs, and wide wheels. I occasionally cut a corner and do WAY LESS damage than the heavy, stumble footed, cleat draging hackers out here on the green and especial around the holes. Not to mention the HDCP carts up on the aprons and the dozens of ball marks that are left for me to repair. Push Carts are NOT a part of the problem. (Wasn't me on Tarpon Boil either!)

[I'm Popeye!]

Nice insult...

Maybe, just maybe, he deserved it... :evil6:

[JMintzer]

Maybe, just maybe, he deserved it... :evil6:

I guess the insulting party will "deserve" their suspension, as well...

[Indydealmaker]

That's for sure ! How L in the world would even MORE money stop people from driving RIGHT ON the green ! How would it stop people who enter a trap at the HIGHEST point, and then collapse the entire collar as they attempt to climb out the same way ? What do you do about people who drag flag poles across the green ? Those who STEP directly on the HOLE as they pull the pole ? No, think you could throw money at that monthly and never stop it. HOW are such things stopped (never entirely) on PUBLIC courses ... the rangers DO THEIR JOBS and don't try to pose as "good will" ambassadors. Probably SAVE enough money to pay their own salaries, not to mention the expense of sitting quietly and watching the courses be torn up...after all, as long as the repairs and maintenance come out of OTHER peoples' money. Hey need even more ? Just raise the monthly fees, there's always MORE where that came from, who cares about enforcing RESPECT. Respect for property is kind of "old fashioned" anyway.

Give Ambassadors shotguns with birdshot.

[I'm Popeye!]

If I don't play, can I sell my unused tee time?

You are over the limit on posting here for the year already, stay out of it. :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Vermilion Villager]

There are a lot of posts here about course conditions. If the amenity authority would make the conditions on the executives awesome, how much extra would you pay in you monthly amenity fee?
Short course in reality is… the developer is the one who would identify the problem, and then ultimately be in charge of any modifications or improvements...including making the decision to build or not build them.
As long as the developer keeps selling homes.....there is no problem.

[SHIBUMI]

The Villages reputation is built on free golf.........not pickle ball.........the executive courses are the biggest draw.........an AWESOME executive course condition does not exist anywhere except in tiger woods backyard. You can't do 300 rounds of golf a day on a 9 hole executive course and have great conditions. If you limited the rounds to 80 a day you would have a fighting chance but 50 of those 80 wouldn't fix their ball marks. The executive courses are just fine for their purpose. We are lucky to have so many. Besides, if you watch most of the players, awesome conditions would be wasted. It cannot happen. So I guess it was just a stupid query to begin with. I have done that before too! We forgive you and suggest you find another issue that has the possibility of happening or just join a club. As far as the executive golfers are concerned, once you reach 5 swings on a hole, pick it up or go over to the driving range. Everyone will be happier.

[Flyers999]

I selected $50. I'd like to see the executive courses in better shape and more of them.

[Velvet]

There are a lot of posts here about course conditions. If the amenity authority would make the conditions on the executives awesome, how much extra would you pay in you monthly amenity fee?

Just curious, OP, from some non-golfer’s point of view: how much would you pay for bananas at Publix you did not buy?

[Papa_lecki]

Just curious, OP, from some non-golfer’s point of view: how much would you pay for bananas at Publix you did not buy?

I have no idea what that question means or how it relates to the question.

I don’t play pickle, tennis or paddle, I don’t swim in the pools (I have a pool in my back yard), I don’t belong to any clubs that use the rec centers to meet, etc, BUT, my amenity fees support them.

I would pay a premium on my amenity fees to have the BEST Pickle Ball facility in Florida, WHY? the prestige increases my property value.
Same with the flowers in the common area, they are nice, I don’t notice them, but visitors do and buyers do.

[Velvet]

Well, I’m not in the real estate business, and I play golf too but I think that people do not want to see amenity fees go up. If you took a survey to see how many people want to see it go down, I think you would get a response.
And if we are going to build anything, let’s see a great new art museum gallery etc. A wonderful concert hall etc. what about adding a little more culture?

[Bogie Shooter]

You are over the limit on posting here for the year already, stay out of it. :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Not even close.:wave:

[villagerjack]

Take some of the executive courses, add the appropriate per round fee to do all the things you think should be done, and see who pays it. A fee would also serve the purpose of removing all of the casual golfers that create the damage you note.

Just like toll roads, if you use it, pay for it. Don't ask others to pay for it.

I never heard of the term casual golfer. Do you mean everyone but you and your buddies who fashion themselves as expert golfers? I thought you experts only play on Championship courses and join the “casual “ golfers “ just to practice”? I live directly on a Par 3 championship course and see a lot of expert golfers who need a lot of “practice” Hitting the green on this 100-125 yd.distance is very rare for these experts..

The Villages is not a golfing community for retirees, it is a retirement community with golf as one of the Amenities.

[kkingston57]

There are a lot of posts here about course conditions. If the amenity authority would make the conditions on the executives awesome, how much extra would you pay in you monthly amenity fee?

What about the regular golf courses? Some are worse than some of the exec courses. Played Briarwood on 2/12 and greens were great.

[kkingston57]

Agree, many golfers are a problem.
Would we hire more marshals, train them and empower them to enforce rules?

Some tees have no grass or very little grass on them. Have never seen a cart on them. Some courses should have mats on the tees. I do hate mats.

[kkingston57]

We have this “pay more for better conditions” system already - Championship courses.

Really? So much fun hitting off food colored hard pan fairways, weeds on greens, overgrown trees in the middle of fairways, etc. There are exceptions. like Glenview, Palmer and Lopez. Courses should cost +/- $35. Not +/- $70. Pros should be giving free lessons on hitting shots off of grass that is as hard as the cart path. In the summer, rounds take 20-30 minutes longer since rough is so thick and high. Shots which barely miss fairways can be a search and rescue mission.

[rjn5656]

My question is why is there so much difference quality between conditions on the executive courses.

My thought is the maintenafce company that does the work. There is no controls
from whomever manages the execs for us.

[I'm Popeye!]

My question is why is there so much difference quality between conditions on the executive courses.

My thought is the maintenafce company that does the work. There is no controls
from whomever manages the execs for us.

Maintenance control, you want maintenance control.
They have Ambassadors plucking weeds instead of keeping the swinging lumberjacks in check. :laugh: