High altitude object shot down over US (Alaskan) territorial waters (ice)

[manaboutown]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfKRPt0ulRM

[Taltarzac725]

U.S. shoots down '''high-altitude object''' over Alaskan airspace, White House says (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/us-shoots-flying-object-alaska-airspace-white-house-says-rcna70166)

Who knows what this was?

[Arctic Fox]

Map shows a dead horse, so I guess the debris landed on that poor animal

[manaboutown]

"The way it was described to me was roughly the size of a small car as opposed to a payload that was like two or three buses sized," Kirby said.

Kirby said that the object was shot down because it was flying at around 40,000 feet and could have posed a threat to civilianaircraft versus the Chinese spy craft discovered last week, which Kirby said was at 65,000 feet and posed no threat to civilian aircraft.

Air Force Brig. Gen. Pat Ryder, a Pentagon spokesperson, said Friday afternoon that the military has located a significant amount of debris from the object, stating that it was shot down by an F-22 using an A9X missile out of Joint Base Elmendorf–Richardson in Anchorage, Alaska. He said the object entered U.S. airspace on Thursday.

"Debris that's been recovered so far is being loaded on to vessels taken ashore, cataloged, and then moved onwards to labs for subsequent analysis. And while I won't go into specifics due to classification reasons, I can say that we have located a significant amount of debris so far that will prove helpful to our further understanding of this balloon and its surveillance capabilities," Ryder said.

From: US military shoots down '''object''' flying in territorial waters over Alaska | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/u-s-military-shoots-down-object-flying-territorial-waters-over-alaska)

[Taltarzac725]

Map shows a dead horse, so I guess the debris landed on that poor animal

Funny.

Maybe Borat sent up a 🎈.

[Blueblaze]

An object the size of a small car that can travel at 40,000 ft?

Hmmmm, let's see.... our best drones are bigger than a humvee and top out at about 30,000'. A U2 can make it to 80,000', but we're the only ones who have them. And their wingspan is half a 747. Well... a 747's service ceiling is about 45K, but they're a little bigger than a Volkswagon. I hope we didn't shoot down a 747!

Iran's little toy drones are basically glorified model airplanes. Might be good for 3,000', so they're out.

Wow, that doesn't leave much other than an escaped balloon from some used car lot's "Crazy Sales Days" event. Do they have used car lots up there on the tundra? Maybe it's midget aliens (the space kind)!

Something tells me that when they get to Alaska, all they're going to find is a bag of wind (minus the bag)!

Maybe somebody should have run their latest balloon lie past a pilot before calling up CNN!

[EastCoastDawg]

An object the size of a small car that can travel at 40,000 ft? Hmmmm, let's see.... our best drones are bigger than a humvee and top out at about 30,000'. A U2 can make it to 80,000', but we're the only ones who have them...

I think we can safely assume that the Chinese have technology every bit as good as anything the West can muster.

[Get real]

The Chinese gave permission to shoot it down.

[thelegges]

An object the size of a small car that can travel at 40,000 ft?



Wow, that doesn't leave much other than an escaped balloon from some used car lot's "Crazy Sales Days" event. Do they have used car lots up there on the tundra? Maybe it's midget aliens (the space kind)!

Something tells me that when they get to Alaska, all they're going to find is a bag of wind (minus the bag)!

Maybe somebody should have run their latest balloon lie past a pilot before calling up CNN!

Now if it came from Alaska this time of the year, the plug in cable, (to keep your car from freezing) on any town Main Street, would have kept it tethered.:cold::clap2:

[Two Bills]

I think it is a disgrace that these foreigners are spying on the US.
America would never stoop so low as to do a thing like that! :pray:

[Two Bills]

An object the size of a small car that can travel at 40,000 ft?

Nearly there!
96848

[thelegges]

Maybe it was Amazon delivering a package:a040: bet that customer is going to be unhappy. Or that eBay someone bought coming from China, no wonder it takes so long to deliver if they are using balloons.

[MorTech]

They murdered Santa Claus, I tellz ya.

[lpkruege1]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfKRPt0ulRM

Want to buy some prime marsh land in Florida?

[lpkruege1]

I think we can safely assume that the Chinese have technology every bit as good as anything the West can muster.

Well, they should have, after all those dollars they spent spying on us.

[tvbound]

Wow, the "I hate America" crowd is out in full force over the actions against these very different objects. It wouldn't have mattered if the reverse actions for these two objects had been taken, the same 'Hammer' (when you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail') crowd - would be attacking/complaining about our country's actions.

Waiting to shoot down the first balloon until we could gather as much info as possible, while blocking its ability to transmit, has turned out to be very smart. Especially since it did not have the capability of gathering anything, that isn't already being provided in much more detail with Chinese satellites. It's already resulted in 6 Chinese entities contributing to its construction in being blacklisted, which couldn't have happened had it not been allowed to continue to fly and then shot down in a recoverable location.

Taking action so soon on the second object, which was a totally different situation than the first, has also turned out to be a smart move and it too will be retrieved from a frozen Arctic Ocean.

Which simply infuriates the 'ready-shoot-aim' crowd even further.

All I can say is...USA, USA, USA. LOL

[ThirdOfFive]

Word is that it was aimed at Miami, but it took a wrong turn at Albuquerque.

[Arctic Fox]

The Chinese gave permission to shoot it down.

Let's hope it wasn't Russian, then

[Blueblaze]

I think we can safely assume that the Chinese have technology every bit as good as anything the West can muster.

Well, we don't have George Jetson's flying car. What makes you think the Chinese do?

[Tvflguy]

Wow, the "I hate America" crowd is out in full force over the actions against these very different objects. It wouldn't have mattered if the reverse actions for these two objects had been taken, the same 'Hammer' (when you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail') crowd - would be attacking/complaining about our country's actions.

Waiting to shoot down the first balloon until we could gather as much info as possible, while blocking its ability to transmit, has turned out to be very smart. Especially since it did not have the capability of gathering anything, that isn't already being provided in much more detail with Chinese satellites. It's already resulted in 6 Chinese entities contributing to its construction in being blacklisted, which couldn't have happened had it not been allowed to continue to fly and then shot down in a recoverable location.

Taking action so soon on the second object, which was a totally different situation than the first, has also turned out to be a smart move and it too will be retrieved from a frozen Arctic Ocean.

Which simply infuriates the 'ready-shoot-aim' crowd even further.

All I can say is...USA, USA, USA. LOL

Wow. There was two replies to this post just earlier. IMO not controversial at all. But now they are gone. Hmmmm. One stated Keep America Great if I recall. If that was why it’s gone now, we’re in trouble.

[Blueblaze]

They murdered Santa Claus, I tellz ya.

That's the most likely scenario I've heard yet. It would take magic reindeer to fly a VW to 40,000 ft.

[Regorp]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfKRPt0ulRM

Could it be aliens looking for polar bears?

[Two Bills]

Wow. There was two replies to this post just earlier. IMO not controversial at all. But now they are gone. Hmmmm. One stated Keep America Great if I recall. If that was why it’s gone now, we’re in trouble.

One thing I learnt about when sailing, was the closer you sail to the wind, the more chance of capsizing!

[Bill14564]

Wow. There was two replies to this post just earlier. IMO not controversial at all. But now they are gone. Hmmmm. One stated Keep America Great if I recall. If that was why it’s gone now, we’re in trouble.

It's a conspiracy.

The board is run by a bunch of ..... who can't stand ......

It's a violation of our free speech! We should sue in the Supreme Court to get our money back.

OR..... The same post was made in two threads and you forgot that the those replies are in that other thread.

[Get real]

It's a conspiracy.

The board is run by a bunch of ..... who can't stand ......

It's a violation of our free speech! We should sue in the Supreme Court to get our money back.

OR..... The same post was made in two threads and you forgot that the those replies are in that other thread.
Option 1 :cool:

[tvbound]

It's a conspiracy.

The board is run by a bunch of ..... who can't stand ......

It's a violation of our free speech! We should sue in the Supreme Court to get our money back.

OR..... The same post was made in two threads and you forgot that the those replies are in that other thread.

Shhh, you're ruining a cathartic rant. lol

[PugMom]

Wow, the "I hate America" crowd is out in full force over the actions against these very different objects. It wouldn't have mattered if the reverse actions for these two objects had been taken, the same 'Hammer' (when you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail') crowd - would be attacking/complaining about our country's actions.

Waiting to shoot down the first balloon until we could gather as much info as possible, while blocking its ability to transmit, has turned out to be very smart. Especially since it did not have the capability of gathering anything, that isn't already being provided in much more detail with Chinese satellites. It's already resulted in 6 Chinese entities contributing to its construction in being blacklisted, which couldn't have happened had it not been allowed to continue to fly and then shot down in a recoverable location.

Taking action so soon on the second object, which was a totally different situation than the first, has also turned out to be a smart move and it too will be retrieved from a frozen Arctic Ocean.

Which simply infuriates the 'ready-shoot-aim' crowd even further.

All I can say is...USA, USA, USA. LOL

yeah, but how many are actually out there, & for how long. the world may never know

[jimjamuser]

I think we can safely assume that the Chinese have technology every bit as good as anything the West can muster.
I would disagree, the Chinese don't even have nuclear subs. And if we made our own cell phones and other stuff, they could never keep up with the US. The only technology they have is what they have STOLEN from us by making our stuff.

[jimjamuser]

Maybe it was Amazon delivering a package:a040: bet that customer is going to be unhappy. Or that eBay someone bought coming from China, no wonder it takes so long to deliver if they are using balloons.
I think that the US shot down the Batplane. Batman was showing Catwoman the northern lights up close. And just think maybe in nine months Gotham City could have had a new baby Robin.

[NoMoSno]

I would disagree, the Chinese don't even have nuclear subs. And if we made our own cell phones and other stuff, they could never keep up with the US. The only technology they have is what they have STOLEN from us by making our stuff.
China has 6 long range nuclear subs:
China has put longer-range ICBMs on its nuclear subs, U.S. says | The Japan Times (https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2022/11/19/asia-pacific/china-longer-range-icbms-submarines-us/)

[Worldseries27]

"the way it was described to me was roughly the size of a small car as opposed to a payload that was like two or three buses sized," kirby said.

Kirby said that the object was shot down because it was flying at around 40,000 feet and could have posed a threat to civilianaircraft versus the chinese spy craft discovered last week, which kirby said was at 65,000 feet and posed no threat to civilian aircraft.

Air force brig. Gen. Pat ryder, a pentagon spokesperson, said friday afternoon that the military has located a significant amount of debris from the object, stating that it was shot down by an f-22 using an a9x missile out of joint base elmendorf–richardson in anchorage, alaska. He said the object entered u.s. Airspace on thursday.

"debris that's been recovered so far is being loaded on to vessels taken ashore, cataloged, and then moved onwards to labs for subsequent analysis. And while i won't go into specifics due to classification reasons, i can say that we have located a significant amount of debris so far that will prove helpful to our further understanding of this balloon and its surveillance capabilities," ryder said.

From: us military shoots down '''object''' flying in territorial waters over alaska | fox news (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/u-s-military-shoots-down-object-flying-territorial-waters-over-alaska)
what's the big deal
we're old friends

[OhioBuckeye]

Is someone making a mockery out of the U.S.? So do we think we’re a strong country or a weak country, because the U. S. has to use an F-22 to pop a balloon?

[Bill14564]

Is someone making a mockery out of the U.S.? So do we think we’re a strong country or a weak country, because the U. S. has to use an F-22 to pop a balloon?

Yeah, you would think a country as great as ours could just send someone out with an eleven mile long pin to pop it.

[PugMom]

Yeah, you would think a country as great as ours could just send someone out with an eleven mile long pin to pop it.

🤣🤣😜

[Worldseries27]

🤣🤣😜
does the magician show all their tricks. Do you expect us to show our laser capabilities or are railgun capabilities to our enemies that is why they took the simple approach

[fdpaq0580]

Is someone making a mockery out of the U.S.? So do we think we’re a strong country or a weak country, because the U. S. has to use an F-22 to pop a balloon?

Our wounderful guys and gals need to practice. Why not let them practice on targets so generously provided by the Chinese?

[New Englander]

Is someone making a mockery out of the U.S.? So do we think we’re a strong country or a weak country, because the U. S. has to use an F-22 to pop a balloon?

What is you're suggestion to take something down that is at 40,000 feet in the sky?

[Worldseries27]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfKRPt0ulRM
China balloon could be a first strike weapon carrying many of these to take out our silos and our nuclear bomber bases

[PugMom]

or a possible threat to our power grids

[tvbound]

Since they were so slow, maybe the last two were just 'baby Tic Tacs' - being given flying lessons? lol


Watch USS Nimitz ‘Tic Tac’ UFO: Declassified Video Clip | HISTORY Channel (https://www.history.com/videos/uss-nimitz-tic-tac-ufo-declassified-video)

Infamous ‘Tic Tac’ UFO spotted by US Navy pilot now seen over England | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/world/infamous-tic-tac-ufo-spotted-by-u-s-navy-pilot-now-seen-over-england)

[tvbound]

or a possible threat to our power grids


Our AC power grids...or the DC ones? LOL

[MorTech]

Yup...I wuhz right...

https://media.babylonbee.com/articles/63a5fd8c8399163a5fd8c83992.jpg

[OhioBuckeye]

Can’t disagree with that one!

[OhioBuckeye]

Not here to argue New Englander just saying how I feel. You want to debate my post but you forgot to share your ideas. You get no argument from me!

[Byte1]

I would disagree, the Chinese don't even have nuclear subs. And if we made our own cell phones and other stuff, they could never keep up with the US. The only technology they have is what they have STOLEN from us by making our stuff.

Wrong! The Chinese have had nuclear subs for years and have nuclear payload ballistic missiles too.

[Blueblaze]

I think we can safely assume that the UFO's the Biden Administration "shoots down" every other day or so aren't Chinese submarines.

And I can guarantee that nobody -- Chinese, American, or Russian -- has the ability to fly a "VW-sized object" at 40,000 ft, in upper reaches of the stratosphere. The fuel alone to do that weighs more than a VW.

And they aren't balloons, either. The amount of gas needed to float a gasbag large enough to make it to 40,000 without popping is larger than a VW.

If anybody in the press had ever taken a physics class, or even bothered to peruse a copy of "Janes All The Worlds Aircraft", it might have occurred to SOMEONE by now to ask the regime to name a single object known to mankind that is the size of a VW and capable of flight at 40,000.

Not counting, Jetson's cartoons, of course.

So what are they shooting down? Shiny objects to distract you from the fact that they let a Chinese spy balloon fly across then entire nation before they decided to do anything about it.

Oh look -- Shiny!

[tvbound]

And in other big news, aluminum foil is flying off of the shelves as conspiracy nuts - are feverishly making tinfoil hats. LOL

[Whitley]

At 40,000 ft (and another object at 20,000 feet) couldn't we have used a 50cal to shoot it down. One of these "items" took two heat seeking (sidewinder) missiles at 400,000.00 each. A 50cal is as cheap as $3.00 a round.

[OhioBuckeye]

Not here to argue New Englander. All I was thinking was why send a 5 billion dollar jet fighter up there using probably using over a million dollars in fuel & using a $100,000. missle to pop it, why not use a ground to air Missle, surely it would be a lot cheaper. What do you think?

[New Englander]

Not here to argue New Englander. All I was thinking was why send a 5 billion dollar jet fighter up there using probably using over a million dollars in fuel & using a $100,000. missle to pop it, why not use a ground to air Missle, surely it would be a lot cheaper. What do you think?

I'm not here to argue either. The military made the decision how to take it down. I trust their judgement.

[HogPilot]

An object the size of a small car that can travel at 40,000 ft?

Hmmmm, let's see.... our best drones are bigger than a humvee and top out at about 30,000'. A U2 can make it to 80,000', but we're the only ones who have them. And their wingspan is half a 747. Well... a 747's service ceiling is about 45K, but they're a little bigger than a Volkswagon. I hope we didn't shoot down a 747!

Iran's little toy drones are basically glorified model airplanes. Might be good for 3,000', so they're out.

Wow, that doesn't leave much other than an escaped balloon from some used car lot's "Crazy Sales Days" event. Do they have used car lots up there on the tundra? Maybe it's midget aliens (the space kind)!

Something tells me that when they get to Alaska, all they're going to find is a bag of wind (minus the bag)!

Maybe somebody should have run their latest balloon lie past a pilot before calling up CNN!

No mention about the use of satellites to observe these objects. If they can read a license plate from outer space, why not these balloons?

[Blueblaze]

At 40,000 ft (and another object at 20,000 feet) couldn't we have used a 50cal to shoot it down. One of these "items" took two heat seeking (sidewinder) missiles at 400,000.00 each. A 50cal is as cheap as $3.00 a round.

Why? Are you suggesting that 50cal doesn't work at high altitudes? That would come as a surprise to the ME-109's that used 20cal to shoot down B-17's at 20,000' in WW2.

Besides, when you're shooting imaginary VW's flying at 40,000 feet, a well-aimed rubber band will do just as good a job as a sidewinder missile!

[fdpaq0580]

Why? Are you suggesting that 50cal doesn't work at high altitudes? That would come as a surprise to the ME-109's that used 20cal to shoot down B-17's at 20,000' in WW2.

Besides, when you're shooting imaginary VW's flying at 40,000 feet, a well-aimed rubber band will do just as good a job as a sidewinder missile!

But it is not nearly as much fun!

[tvbound]

At 40,000 ft (and another object at 20,000 feet) couldn't we have used a 50cal to shoot it down. One of these "items" took two heat seeking (sidewinder) missiles at 400,000.00 each. A 50cal is as cheap as $3.00 a round.

"At 40,000 ft (and another object at 20,000 feet) couldn't we have used a 50cal to shoot it down."


Why the U.S. used missiles, not cheap bullets, to shoot down Chinese balloon, 3 unidentified objects (https://www.yahoo.com/news/why-u-used-missiles-not-125447249.html)


But "the military's ability to respond to balloons and similar craft is constrained by physics and the capabilities of current weapons," The Washington Post reports, and you can't really pop a giant balloon with gunfire at 40,000 feet.

"You can fill a balloon full of bullet holes, and it's going to stay at altitude," David Deptula, a retired Air Force lieutenant general and fighter pilot, tells the Post. The air pressure that high up doesn't allow helium to freely escape through small holes, even if fighter jets flying by at hundreds of miles per hour can riddle the near-stationary balloon with bullets.

[Bay Kid]

What is being covered up by all the focus on balloons?

[Whitley]

Why? Are you suggesting that 50cal doesn't work at high altitudes? That would come as a surprise to the ME-109's that used 20cal to shoot down B-17's at 20,000' in WW2.

Besides, when you're shooting imaginary VW's flying at 40,000 feet, a well-aimed rubber band will do just as good a job as a sidewinder missile!

My point is that the first object was over 60,000 ft high, and as such a missile was needed. The reason I would propose is that the F22 has a ceiling height of 60,000 feet. We would be pushing the envelope of the planes abilities. The next three unknown aerial objects were at or below 40,000 feet. Can someone explain why we could not have used a 50cal to shoot these three down?

[Bill14564]

My point is that the first object was over 60,000 ft high, and as such a missile was needed. The reason I would propose is that the F22 has a ceiling height of 60,000 feet. We would be pushing the envelope of the planes abilities. The next three unknown aerial objects were at or below 40,000 feet. Can someone explain why we could not have used a 50cal to shoot these three down?

I suspect there are three reasons:
1. These balloons are not like kids balloons, you can't pop them with a pin which is what a 50 cal. round would be like. A nearby explosion was needed to shred the balloon sufficiently.

2. Those rounds need to land somewhere. Even if they hit the balloon they would continue to travel outward. The last thing the military needs is a headline about the house/car/pet/person the rounds hit on the way down.

3. The planes would not need to be nearly as close to the object to hit it with a missile.

[Whitley]

I suspect there are three reasons:
1. These balloons are not like kids balloons, you can't pop them with a pin which is what a 50 cal. round would be like. A nearby explosion was needed to shred the balloon sufficiently.

2. Those rounds need to land somewhere. Even if they hit the balloon they would continue to travel outward. The last thing the military needs is a headline about the house/car/pet/person the rounds hit on the way down.

3. The planes would not need to be nearly as close to the object to hit it with a missile.

Thank you for the response. After the initial post I reached out to my old college roommate who is a career military man. He got back to me yesterday. The balloon is so high that it has a very low internal pressure. A 50 caliber would puncture the balloon but it would not explode as it may at a lower altitude. The concern then becomes the device remaining afloat and entering a slow decline. This prevent them from choosing the location that it would fall to.

[tvbound]

Thank you for the response. After the initial post I reached out to my old college roommate who is a career military man. He got back to me yesterday. The balloon is so high that it has a very low internal pressure. A 50 caliber would puncture the balloon but it would not explode as it may at a lower altitude. The concern then becomes the device remaining afloat and entering a slow decline. This prevent them from choosing the location that it would fall to.


As already fully explained in Post #54.

[ex34449]

And I can guarantee that nobody -- Chinese, American, or Russian -- has the ability to fly a "VW-sized object" at 40,000 ft, in upper reaches of the stratosphere. The fuel alone to do that weighs more than a VW.

? The F-22 aircraft that shot the first one down has a service ceiling in upwards of 60,000 feet and I assure you is much larger than any VW you've ever seen. An F-15 that I worked on in the late 70's had a 50,000 ceiling. That was nearly a half century ago. Hell they launch missiles from that altitude as long as a VW.

And they aren't balloons, either. The amount of gas needed to float a gasbag large enough to make it to 40,000 without popping is larger than a VW.

You do realize that high altitude balloons are only partially filled at launch due to less air pressure at operational altitude. It's a sealed system that's actually pretty high tech as opposed something you'd see at the fair with an open bottom getting hot air stuffed in it.
From WIKI High-altitude balloon - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-altitude_balloon)
"High-altitude balloons or stratostats are crewed or uncrewed balloons, usually filled with helium or hydrogen, that are released into the stratosphere, generally attaining between 18 and 37 km (11 and 23 mi; 59,000 and 121,000 ft) above sea level. In 2002, a balloon named BU60-1 reached a record altitude of 53.0 km (32.9 mi; 173,900 ft)."

If anybody in the press had ever taken a physics class, or even bothered to peruse a copy of "Janes All The Worlds Aircraft", it might have occurred to SOMEONE by now to ask the regime to name a single object known to mankind that is the size of a VW and capable of flight at 40,000.

Just off the top of my head...
SR 71, U-2, F-35, F-22, F-25, F-15, F-4. SU 34, 27, 47. MIGs 29, 31, 25.
And many long haul airliners that you may have been in at the time. They often hit 42,000.

[Blueblaze]

? The F-22 aircraft that shot the first one down has a service ceiling in upwards of 60,000 feet and I assure you is much larger than any VW you've ever seen. An F-15 that I worked on in the late 70's had a 50,000 ceiling. That was nearly a half century ago. Hell they launch missiles from that altitude as long as a VW.



You do realize that high altitude balloons are only partially filled at launch due to less air pressure at operational altitude. It's a sealed system that's actually pretty high tech as opposed something you'd see at the fair with an open bottom getting hot air stuffed in it.
From WIKI High-altitude balloon - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-altitude_balloon)
"High-altitude balloons or stratostats are crewed or uncrewed balloons, usually filled with helium or hydrogen, that are released into the stratosphere, generally attaining between 18 and 37 km (11 and 23 mi; 59,000 and 121,000 ft) above sea level. In 2002, a balloon named BU60-1 reached a record altitude of 53.0 km (32.9 mi; 173,900 ft)."



Just off the top of my head...
SR 71, U-2, F-35, F-22, F-25, F-15, F-4. SU 34, 27, 47. MIGs 29, 31, 25.
And many long haul airliners that you may have been in at the time. They often hit 42,000.


I guess I should have added that Americans are just a deficient in logic as they are math and physics. The phrase "size of a VW" does not logically include all of the things in the world that are larger than a VW. The entire point of my post was to point out that there is not aerial object know to man that is as SMALL as a VW and capable of flight in the stratosphere. You merely produced a list of known objects larger than a VW that fly at high altitude.

Why would they have mentioned a VW, if it was a big as an SR 71?

[Caymus]

Was it a $12 hobby balloon?

Did Joe Biden shoot down hobbyists $12 balloon with a $380,000 missile? | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11760443/Did-Joe-Biden-shoot-hobbyists-12-balloon-380-000-missile.html)