Constitutional Carry Coming to TV?

[ThirdOfFive]

The Florida legislature is even now considering "constitutional carry" (House Bill 543, Companion Senate Bill 150) for the state of Florida. Briefly stated, constitutional carry would allow any Floridian of legal age and not otherwise forbidden to own a firearm, to carry one in public without having to obtain a permit to do so. The current permitting system would remain in effect however for those who wish to access it, most probably because of reciprocity agreements between Florida and other states.

What many people don't realize is how common constitutional carry is in America. Fully half the states already allow it. Besides Florida, the states of Nebraska, South Carolina, and New Mexico are also considering going that route as well.

I confess to being of two minds on the issue. After all, it is called "Constitutional carry" for a reason. But merely OWNING a gun does not guarantee that the owner will be able to USE it in a lawful and safe manner. The current system in Florida does provide a way to assure that a permit holder has demonstrated at least a minimum knowledge of the law as well as showing he/she has basic skills in how to use a firearm in a self-defense situation.

Is this something we want to see come to The Villages?

[ScottGo]

Just what we need, more guns.

[Bilyclub]

No, do I want every wacko on the street packing, hell no.
The bigger question is why do retired LEO's have to qualify every year, and CCL holders only every 7 years ?

[ThirdOfFive]

No, do I want every wacko on the street packing, hell no.
The bigger question is why do retired LEO's have to qualify every year, and CCL holders only every 7 years ?
Probably (though I don't know for sure) because the LEOs need to do that in order to keep their license. I know a couple of retired cops who are still licensed peace officers.

[Wing-nut2]

How would you stop it from coming to TV? There are thousands of CWFLs in TV now. On any night you could have people carrying at the town Square (25/50) or any place else in TV. It's here.

[Gpsma]

No, do I want every wacko on the street packing, hell no.
The bigger question is why do retired LEO's have to qualify every year, and CCL holders only every 7 years ?

Retired LEOs qualify under HR 218 so they can carry throughout the US. If they just want to carry in Florida then its the 7 year license.

[Wing-nut2]

A CWFL holder never has to re-qualify.

[CPD050]

No, do I want every wacko on the street packing, hell no.
The bigger question is why do retired LEO's have to qualify every year, and CCL holders only every 7 years ?

Retired LEOs qualify yearly due to a federal law which was passed to allow them to concealed carry through out the US (some exemptions and rules apply like federal buildings). No concealed carry permits needed by different states.

[billethkid]

Constitutional carry most likely will not increase the number of guns owned....maybe some increase in number who carry....

For sure in public one will not know who is carrying or not....just like before constitutional carry.

____________________________________

:censored:

[wisbad1]

The Florida legislature is even now considering "constitutional carry" (House Bill 543, Companion Senate Bill 150) for the state of Florida. Briefly stated, constitutional carry would allow any Floridian of legal age and not otherwise forbidden to own a firearm, to carry one in public without having to obtain a permit to do so. The current permitting system would remain in effect however for those who wish to access it, most probably because of reciprocity agreements between Florida and other states.

What many people don't realize is how common constitutional carry is in America. Fully half the states already allow it. Besides Florida, the states of Nebraska, South Carolina, and New Mexico are also considering going that route as well.

I confess to being of two minds on the issue. After all, it is called "Constitutional carry" for a reason. But merely OWNING a gun does not guarantee that the owner will be able to USE it in a lawful and safe manner. The current system in Florida does provide a way to assure that a permit holder has demonstrated at least a minimum knowledge of the law as well as showing he/she has basic skills in how to use a firearm in a self-defense situation.

Is this something we want to see come to The Villages?
Wait till someone shoots their foot, I’ll be nervous around people with no idea how dangerous guns are. It’s not the gun it’s the person holding it. Ask Alex Baldwin

[Byte1]

It will still be the obligation of those wishing to carry, to know the laws and restrictions. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

[jimjamuser]

The Florida legislature is even now considering "constitutional carry" (House Bill 543, Companion Senate Bill 150) for the state of Florida. Briefly stated, constitutional carry would allow any Floridian of legal age and not otherwise forbidden to own a firearm, to carry one in public without having to obtain a permit to do so. The current permitting system would remain in effect however for those who wish to access it, most probably because of reciprocity agreements between Florida and other states.

What many people don't realize is how common constitutional carry is in America. Fully half the states already allow it. Besides Florida, the states of Nebraska, South Carolina, and New Mexico are also considering going that route as well.

I confess to being of two minds on the issue. After all, it is called "Constitutional carry" for a reason. But merely OWNING a gun does not guarantee that the owner will be able to USE it in a lawful and safe manner. The current system in Florida does provide a way to assure that a permit holder has demonstrated at least a minimum knowledge of the law as well as showing he/she has basic skills in how to use a firearm in a self-defense situation.

Is this something we want to see come to The Villages?
Well, I don't....... because there are a lot of "Hotheads", uptight seniors, inflexible seniors, and demented seniors locate here. Not to mention the excessive drinking that is prevalent here.

[billethkid]

Well, I don't....... because there are a lot of "Hotheads", uptight seniors, inflexible seniors, and demented seniors locate here. Not to mention the excessive drinking that is prevalent here.

A micro mirror of Anyplace USA!

_________________________________________

:censored:

[jimjamuser]

Since places with the strictest gun ownership laws have the highest crime rates, I would say yes, it is what we need. Also, the way the government is going, we may need to use guns to keep our rights at some point, which is why we have the second amendment. I have friends that are big carry guys, I am not. However, I do own several firearms and being ex Military, know how to use them. I don't believe I would ever need them in TV, but you never know.

It is an actual right to own and carry a weapon if you want, so I would support CC.
I think that carrying a concealed firearm SHOULD require special licenses and training and methods to keep mental patients and recent felons from buying or carrying guns.
......I would be fine with non-concealed carry, BUT..........a big BUT.......if I were in charge of the US, I would require all guns sold to civilians to be SINGLE-SHOT (EVEN including pistols). That way there could be very few MASS MURDERS.
........Everyone knows that the US has the MOST Gun violence and the MOST guns. That is a DIRECT PROPORTION where more VIOLENCE happens because of MORE guns in society. The US bar chart of gun VIOLENCE compared to other countries is COMPLETELY "off the chart".
..........America has to wake up some time from this national NIGHTMARE caused by the ALL-POWERFUL greed and power promoted for the GUN manufacturers by the NRA.

[ThirdOfFive]

It will still be the obligation of those wishing to carry, to know the laws and restrictions. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.
True, except that now, in order to get a permit, you have to certify that you have read and understand the applicable laws. Whether or not you actually DID that might be another story entirely, but at least you're on record as having done so. There would be no such safeguard with constitutional carry.

[Papa_lecki]

True, except that now, in order to get a permit, you have to certify that you have read and understand the applicable laws. Whether or not you actually DID that might be another story entirely, but at least you're on record as having done so. There would be no such safeguard with constitutional carry.

That piece of paper isn’t going to mean squat if you’re involved in a shooting - justified or not.

You can’t carry (constitutional or not) if you’re a prohibited processor, you can’t buy a gun, you need to pass a background check to buy. It’s illegal to POSSESS.
If you lend your gun to a prohibited processor - you’re in deep doo doo as well - and if you don’t know if the person you are lending your gun to is a PP - don’t lend it - better yet, NEVER lend your gun.

No matter what - IT’S ILLEGAL TO KILL SOMEONE, no matter if there’s constitutional carry or not

[ThirdOfFive]

That piece of paper isn’t going to mean squat if you’re involved in a shooting - justified or not.

You can’t carry (constitutional or not) if you’re a prohibited processor, you can’t buy a gun, you need to pass a background check to buy. It’s illegal to POSSESS.
If you lend your gun to a prohibited processor - you’re in deep doo doo as well - and if you don’t know if the person you are lending your gun to is a PP - don’t lend it - better yet, NEVER lend your gun.

No matter what - IT’S ILLEGAL TO KILL SOMEONE, no matter if there’s constitutional carry or not
"There are two primary statutes in Florida outlining when the use of deadly force is justified so as to avoid criminal liability. Under Section 776.012, Florida Statutes (Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” Law), a person is justified in using deadly force (and does not have a duty to retreat) if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony or to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another. Under Section 782.02, Florida Statutes, the use of deadly force is further justified when a person is resisting any attempt to murder such person or to commit any felony upon him or her or upon or in any dwelling house in which the person is located.

If the defendant is in his or her home or vehicle, then, under Section 776.013, Florida Statutes, the law will presume that the defendant had a reasonable fear of imminent death or bodily harm if the alleged victim unlawfully entered or remained or attempted to remove another person against their will. A person who unlawfully and by force enters or attempts to enter another’s home or vehicle is furthermore presumed to be doing so with the intent to commit an unlawful act involving force or violence." (hussein and weber dot com, "self-defense under Florida law")

So despite the claim of the poster to the contrary, there ARE times when, under Florida law, it IS legal to kill another human being.

[Keefelane66]

I think that carrying a concealed firearm SHOULD require special licenses and training and methods to keep mental patients and recent felons from buying or carrying guns.
......I would be fine with non-concealed carry, BUT..........a big BUT.......if I were in charge of the US, I would require all guns sold to civilians to be SINGLE-SHOT (EVEN including pistols). That way there could be very few MASS MURDERS.
........Everyone knows that the US has the MOST Gun violence and the MOST guns. That is a DIRECT PROPORTION where more VIOLENCE happens because of MORE guns in society. The US bar chart of gun VIOLENCE compared to other countries is COMPLETELY "off the chart".
..........America has to wake up some time from this national NIGHTMARE caused by the ALL-POWERFUL greed and power promoted for the GUN manufacturers by the NRA.
Totally AGREE with your assessment

[bsloan1960]

The Florida legislature is even now considering "constitutional carry" (House Bill 543, Companion Senate Bill 150) for the state of Florida. Briefly stated, constitutional carry would allow any Floridian of legal age and not otherwise forbidden to own a firearm, to carry one in public without having to obtain a permit to do so. The current permitting system would remain in effect however for those who wish to access it, most probably because of reciprocity agreements between Florida and other states.

What many people don't realize is how common constitutional carry is in America. Fully half the states already allow it. Besides Florida, the states of Nebraska, South Carolina, and New Mexico are also considering going that route as well.

I confess to being of two minds on the issue. After all, it is called "Constitutional carry" for a reason. But merely OWNING a gun does not guarantee that the owner will be able to USE it in a lawful and safe manner. The current system in Florida does provide a way to assure that a permit holder has demonstrated at least a minimum knowledge of the law as well as showing he/she has basic skills in how to use a firearm in a self-defense situation.

Is this something we want to see come to The Villages?

Catch phases don't very often stand up to logical scrutiny. However, this one does, "The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun". The vast majority of mass shootings are stopped either by a Police Officer or civilian who is licensed to carry ending the madness by shooting the guy.

[Papa_lecki]

"There are two primary statutes in Florida outlining when the use of deadly force is justified so as to avoid criminal liability. Under Section 776.012, Florida Statutes (Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” Law), a person is justified in using deadly force (and does not have a duty to retreat) if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony or to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another. Under Section 782.02, Florida Statutes, the use of deadly force is further justified when a person is resisting any attempt to murder such person or to commit any felony upon him or her or upon or in any dwelling house in which the person is located.

If the defendant is in his or her home or vehicle, then, under Section 776.013, Florida Statutes, the law will presume that the defendant had a reasonable fear of imminent death or bodily harm if the alleged victim unlawfully entered or remained or attempted to remove another person against their will. A person who unlawfully and by force enters or attempts to enter another’s home or vehicle is furthermore presumed to be doing so with the intent to commit an unlawful act involving force or violence." (hussein and weber dot com, "self-defense under Florida law")

So despite the claim of the poster to the contrary, there ARE times when, under Florida law, it IS legal to kill another human being.

Correct……. Should have said it’s illegal to unjustifiably kill someone…but you knew what I meant. i used the term “prohibited possessor”….

I meant someone that is going to carry out a mass killing, isn’t going to follow any law on how/what/where to carry - they will purchase the weapon illegally, won’t get a background check, they don’t care about a license to carry.

[jimjamuser]

Catch phases don't very often stand up to logical scrutiny. However, this one does, "The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun". The vast majority of mass shootings are stopped either by a Police Officer or civilian who is licensed to carry ending the madness by shooting the guy.
Sorry, but that is a little like the chicken and the egg controversy.......WHICH one came FIRST? MAYBE NOW, today people may feel a NEED to carry a gun, but it happened AFTER the NRA captured the US government to produce giant PROFITS for the Gun industry OWNERS. And the "LITTLE PEOPLE" suffered the consequences.
........If one remembers back to between WW2 and 1960 the NRA was a HUNTING organization not A HUNTING HUMANS and killing humans organization. AND my Grandfather and father had HUNTING animals-type guns NOT semi-auto 30-round magazine, human-killing $3,000 military-style weapons of WAR ! And you-all will remember that MURDERS were few and far between back then. And the demented MASS-murder scene of TODAY did NOT even exist.
.........Which came 1st the MAN killings or the MAN killing weapons? I KNOW that I know!

[ckcapaul]

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[ckcapaul]

///

[mickey100]

Sorry, but that is a little like the chicken and the egg controversy.......WHICH one came FIRST? MAYBE NOW, today people may feel a NEED to carry a gun, but it happened AFTER the NRA captured the US government to produce giant PROFITS for the Gun industry OWNERS. And the "LITTLE PEOPLE" suffered the consequences.
........If one remembers back to between WW2 and 1960 the NRA was a HUNTING organization not A HUNTING HUMANS and killing humans organization. AND my Grandfather and father had HUNTING animals-type guns NOT semi-auto 30-round magazine, human-killing $3,000 military-style weapons of WAR ! And you-all will remember that MURDERS were few and far between back then. And the demented MASS-murder scene of TODAY did NOT even exist.
.........Which came 1st the MAN killings or the MAN killing weapons? I KNOW that I know!

I agree with your sentiments, but please don't capitalize everything. It comes across as shouting in internet lingo...thanks.

[Number 10 GI]

Well, I don't....... because there are a lot of "Hotheads", uptight seniors, inflexible seniors, and demented seniors locate here. Not to mention the excessive drinking that is prevalent here.

That's true and most of them have driver's licenses that allow them to operate 4,000 lb motor vehicles. No re-taking the driver's exam or demonstrate they can still drive safely.

[Number 10 GI]

Catch phases don't very often stand up to logical scrutiny. However, this one does, "The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun". The vast majority of mass shootings are stopped either by a Police Officer or civilian who is licensed to carry ending the madness by shooting the guy.

A google search will find hours of reading and watching videos of news reports where an armed citizen saved their life or another person's. Many times, just the brandishing of a weapon to a thug wanting to victimize a person has prevented the assault.
The NRA magazine every month lists 6 or so news reports of an armed good guy stopping a criminal act. The source for the article is also provided so it can be independently verified.

[Garywt]

I try not to think about it. I have never had a desire to get a gun and have never been in a situation that I wish I had one. If people carry them, then they do.

[kkingston57]

The Florida legislature is even now considering "constitutional carry" (House Bill 543, Companion Senate Bill 150) for the state of Florida. Briefly stated, constitutional carry would allow any Floridian of legal age and not otherwise forbidden to own a firearm, to carry one in public without having to obtain a permit to do so. The current permitting system would remain in effect however for those who wish to access it, most probably because of reciprocity agreements between Florida and other states.

What many people don't realize is how common constitutional carry is in America. Fully half the states already allow it. Besides Florida, the states of Nebraska, South Carolina, and New Mexico are also considering going that route as well.

I confess to being of two minds on the issue. After all, it is called "Constitutional carry" for a reason. But merely OWNING a gun does not guarantee that the owner will be able to USE it in a lawful and safe manner. The current system in Florida does provide a way to assure that a permit holder has demonstrated at least a minimum knowledge of the law as well as showing he/she has basic skills in how to use a firearm in a self-defense situation.

Is this something we want to see come to The Villages?

If this becomes law, do believe that 99% of people who have guns will not carry them and will identify people who are scared of their own shadow.

[Number 10 GI]

What is someone going to do if the low life thug has a knife , not a firearm, and is intent on doing harm? If your body is as broken down as mine, you sure as Hades aren't going be able to fight him and take his knife. You aren't going to out run him either. Even a healthy 20 something stud is going to be in a hurt against a knife wielding thug. Do you really think a young 100 lb woman is going to fare any better? Sure, you could carry a knife yourself but just how effective are you going to be? I'll answer that, you are going to be on the losing end. There have been may incidents where multiple low life scum bags without a weapon have beaten a person to death with their fists and feet. The only thing a cop can do for you is call for an ambulance or the coroner and hopefully find a witness to the crime.

[JMintzer]

Well, I don't....... because there are a lot of "Hotheads", uptight seniors, inflexible seniors, and demented seniors locate here. Not to mention the excessive drinking that is prevalent here.

Must... Resist... Don't... Want... Another... "Vacation"...

[ThirdOfFive]

A google search will find hours of reading and watching videos of news reports where an armed citizen saved their life or another person's. Many times, just the brandishing of a weapon to a thug wanting to victimize a person has prevented the assault.
The NRA magazine every month lists 6 or so news reports of an armed good guy stopping a criminal act. The source for the article is also provided so it can be independently verified.
True words.

Back in Minnesota, when permit-to-carry first went into effect nearly 20 years ago now, the doom-and-gloomers were predicting dead bodies on the streets so thick that they'd have to pick 'em up with a front-end loader. Didn't happen, of course. But a couple of other interesting things did. For example, a lot of the people opposing permit-to-carry, if they were business owners, put up those signs NO GUNS ALLOWED ON THESE PREMISES. The signs came down right quick when it became glaringly apparent that those were the businesses being targeted by the crooks and stickup artists.

The bad guys just don't like their targets shooting back.

[JMintzer]

I think that carrying a concealed firearm SHOULD require special licenses and training and methods to keep mental patients and recent felons from buying or carrying guns.

There are already Federal and State laws preventing precisely what you're afraid of...

......I would be fine with non-concealed carry, BUT..........a big BUT.......if I were in charge of the US, I would require all guns sold to civilians to be SINGLE-SHOT (EVEN including pistols). That way there could be very few MASS MURDERS.
........Everyone knows that the US has the MOST Gun violence and the MOST guns. That is a DIRECT PROPORTION where more VIOLENCE happens because of MORE guns in society.

Nope... Switzerland and Finland have a very high number of guns per capita (close to 30 per 100 people), with much less "gun violence"...

Care to explain that?

The US bar chart of gun VIOLENCE compared to other countries is COMPLETELY "off the chart".

If you remove just 5 cities, the US ranks at the very bottom of gun violence per capita...

https://youtu.be/pELwCqz2JfE

..........America has to wake up some time from this national NIGHTMARE caused by the ALL-POWERFUL greed and power promoted for the GUN manufacturers by the NRA.

So the NRA is the Wizard of Oz?

[JMintzer]

True, except that now, in order to get a permit, you have to certify that you have read and understand the applicable laws. Whether or not you actually DID that might be another story entirely, but at least you're on record as having done so. There would be no such safeguard with constitutional carry.

Same thing when you buy a gun at a gun shop...

[Two Bills]

I always have this vision of a Christmas balloon exploding in a local Walmarts, Publix, Restaurant etc. and about half the geriatrics with guns blasting at anything that moves.
Then the Police arrive and start shooting, adding to the mayhem.
Make a great finale to a film.
"Gunfight at the Golden Coral!"

[ThirdOfFive]

There are already Federal and State laws preventing precisely what you're afraid of...



Nope... Switzerland and Finland have a very high number of guns per capita (close to 30 per 100 people), with much less "gun violence"...

Care to explain that?



If you remove just 5 cities, the US ranks at the very bottom of gun violence per capita...

https://youtu.be/pELwCqz2JfE



So the NRA is the Wizard of Oz?
Good points.

The precise reason I automatically mistrust emotional arguments.

[JMintzer]

"There are two primary statutes in Florida outlining when the use of deadly force is justified so as to avoid criminal liability. Under Section 776.012, Florida Statutes (Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” Law), a person is justified in using deadly force (and does not have a duty to retreat) if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony or to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another. Under Section 782.02, Florida Statutes, the use of deadly force is further justified when a person is resisting any attempt to murder such person or to commit any felony upon him or her or upon or in any dwelling house in which the person is located.

If the defendant is in his or her home or vehicle, then, under Section 776.013, Florida Statutes, the law will presume that the defendant had a reasonable fear of imminent death or bodily harm if the alleged victim unlawfully entered or remained or attempted to remove another person against their will. A person who unlawfully and by force enters or attempts to enter another’s home or vehicle is furthermore presumed to be doing so with the intent to commit an unlawful act involving force or violence." (hussein and weber dot com, "self-defense under Florida law")

So despite the claim of the poster to the contrary, there ARE times when, under Florida law, it IS legal to kill another human being.

https://media1.giphy.com/media/NFRycyvw1kjiE/giphy.gif

[JMintzer]

Sorry, but that is a little like the chicken and the egg controversy.......WHICH one came FIRST? MAYBE NOW, today people may feel a NEED to carry a gun, but it happened AFTER the NRA captured the US government to produce giant PROFITS for the Gun industry OWNERS. And the "LITTLE PEOPLE" suffered the consequences.
........If one remembers back to between WW2 and 1960 the NRA was a HUNTING organization not A HUNTING HUMANS and killing humans organization. AND my Grandfather and father had HUNTING animals-type guns NOT semi-auto 30-round magazine, human-killing $3,000 military-style weapons of WAR ! And you-all will remember that MURDERS were few and far between back then. And the demented MASS-murder scene of TODAY did NOT even exist.
.........Which came 1st the MAN killings or the MAN killing weapons? I KNOW that I know!

Yes, back then, kids came to school with their guns in their trucks. Their hunting rifles, their SEMI-AUTO rifles, their shotguns...

After Christmas, they brought their new guns to show their friends.

And miraculously, no one was shot...

But sure, the NRA brainwashed an entire country into buying "DEATH MACHINES"!!!

I'm sure it had nothing to do with the generations of kids being on psychotropic medications...

[JMintzer]

That's true and most of them have driver's licenses that allow them to operate 4,000 lb motor vehicles. No re-taking the driver's exam or demonstrate they can still drive safely.

And thank god, no one has ever used a car or a truck as a weapon...

Oh, wait...

[JMintzer]

A google search will find hours of reading and watching videos of news reports where an armed citizen saved their life or another person's. Many times, just the brandishing of a weapon to a thug wanting to victimize a person has prevented the assault.
The NRA magazine every month lists 6 or so news reports of an armed good guy stopping a criminal act. The source for the article is also provided so it can be independently verified.

According to the FBI and the CDC, that happens between 400,000 and 2.5 MILLION times/year...

Guns Prevent Thousands of Crimes Every Day, Research Shows - Foundation for Economic Education (https://fee.org/articles/guns-prevent-thousands-of-crimes-every-day-research-show/)

[JMintzer]

I try not to think about it. I have never had a desire to get a gun and have never been in a situation that I wish I had one. If people carry them, then they do.

A perfectly reasonable and rational reply... :beer3:

[JMintzer]

I always have this vision of a Christmas balloon exploding in a local Walmarts, Publix, Restaurant etc. and about half the geriatrics with guns blasting at anything that moves.
Then the Police arrive and start shooting, adding to the mayhem.
Make a great finale to a film.
"Gunfight at the Golden Coral!"

Maybe you should lay off the "funny mushrooms"... :p

[JMintzer]

Good points.

The precise reason I automatically mistrust emotional arguments.

Most arguments agains guns ARE emotional...

[bsloan1960]

Sorry, but that is a little like the chicken and the egg controversy.......WHICH one came FIRST? MAYBE NOW, today people may feel a NEED to carry a gun, but it happened AFTER the NRA captured the US government to produce giant PROFITS for the Gun industry OWNERS. And the "LITTLE PEOPLE" suffered the consequences.
........If one remembers back to between WW2 and 1960 the NRA was a HUNTING organization not A HUNTING HUMANS and killing humans organization. AND my Grandfather and father had HUNTING animals-type guns NOT semi-auto 30-round magazine, human-killing $3,000 military-style weapons of WAR ! And you-all will remember that MURDERS were few and far between back then. And the demented MASS-murder scene of TODAY did NOT even exist.
.........Which came 1st the MAN killings or the MAN killing weapons? I KNOW that I know!

You began by stating my point was moot- then went off on a tangent. It doesn't matter if it began with a chicken or egg. What matters is a gunman killing people in a public place in the Here and Now and a person showing up with a gun to stop him from shooting more people. This is what occurs- Now. There is no philosophy or social analysis involved... or anger at the gun lobby. When a shooter is aiming at human targets I'll fire a shot at him while you argue The NRA is corrupt. Let's see who stops him. YES. There is a place for arguments. But not at the time and place of the scenario I described earlier.

[Bogie Shooter]

Why stop with concealed carry…..go for open carry!
The macho guys can show off their pretty guns.:duck:

[mikreb]

No, do I want every wacko on the street packing, hell no.
The bigger question is why do retired LEO's have to qualify every year, and CCL holders only every 7 years ?

Because retired LEO's are required annually in order to maintain qualified immunity. Citizens are not allowed to make a mistake but trained law enforcement officers can and do with impunity.

[Papa_lecki]

I always have this vision of a Christmas balloon exploding in a local Walmarts, Publix, Restaurant etc. and about half the geriatrics with guns blasting at anything that moves.
Then the Police arrive and start shooting, adding to the mayhem.
Make a great finale to a film.
"Gunfight at the Golden Coral!"

Considering a balloon pop sounds NOTHING like a firearm discharge…..

[ThirdOfFive]

Why stop with concealed carry…..go for open carry!
The macho guys can show off their pretty guns.:duck:
Minnesota has been a "shall issue" state now for nearly two decades. For some unfathomable reason, even though the rest of the restrictions surrounding a permit-to-carry up there make defending yourself illegal in all but the most dire of circumstances, the state is open carry. You can carry openly in public with impunity and as long as you have a permit you're perfectly legal. I am pretty sure it was an oversight by the lawmakers. But it is what it is.

I never did. As far as I was concerned the only person that needed to know I was carrying was me. Far better to keep it hidden than to have to deal with some millennial mom dissolving into a puddle of gibbering drool in some grocery store or Walgreen's at the sight of my LC9.

The people who add fuel to the fire by flaunting or showing off (thankfully very few, in my experience anyway) are doing no one any favors. Flaunting a gun, even though it be totally legal, is rubbing it in the face of somebody, somewhere. Totally unnecessary.

[Dusty_Star]

Must... Resist... Don't... Want... Another... "Vacation"...

Pink Panther?

[jimbomaybe]

Sorry, but that is a little like the chicken and the egg controversy.......WHICH one came FIRST? MAYBE NOW, today people may feel a NEED to carry a gun, but it happened AFTER the NRA captured the US government to produce giant PROFITS for the Gun industry OWNERS. And the "LITTLE PEOPLE" suffered the consequences.
........If one remembers back to between WW2 and 1960 the NRA was a HUNTING organization not A HUNTING HUMANS and killing humans organization. AND my Grandfather and father had HUNTING animals-type guns NOT semi-auto 30-round magazine, human-killing $3,000 military-style weapons of WAR ! And you-all will remember that MURDERS were few and far between back then. And the demented MASS-murder scene of TODAY did NOT even exist.
.........Which came 1st the MAN killings or the MAN killing weapons? I KNOW that I know!

And back in the 60s you could buy semi auto war surplus weapons through the mail, and if it was determined you were a bit off you ended up living in a place where the locks were on the outside of the doors

[Pballer]

There are already Federal and State laws preventing precisely what you're afraid of...



Nope... Switzerland and Finland have a very high number of guns per capita (close to 30 per 100 people), with much less "gun violence"...

Care to explain that?



If you remove just 5 cities, the US ranks at the very bottom of gun violence per capita...

https://youtu.be/pELwCqz2JfE



So the NRA is the Wizard of Oz?

In 2020 the states with the highest per capita murder rates were Mississippi, Louisiana and Alabama - must be due to all the big cities in these 3 states.

By the way, Florida has a higher per capita murder rate than NY. I guess our governor is not tough enough on crime.

[JMintzer]

Considering a balloon pop sounds NOTHING like a firearm discharge…..

Well... He is from England, so...

[JMintzer]

Pink Panther?

Nah, I just keep getting in trouble for some of my responses to his "more interesting" posts...

[JMintzer]

And back in the 60s you could buy semi auto war surplus weapons through the mail, and if it was determined you were a bit off you ended up living in a place where the locks were on the outside of the doors

You could buy M1 Garands (a REAL weapon of war) at Montgomery Wards... They had them in barrels in the sporting goods department...

[Caymus]

Why stop with concealed carry…..go for open carry!
The macho guys can show off their pretty guns.:duck:

Are murder rates higher in open carry counties?

[JMintzer]

In 2020 the states with the highest per capita murder rates were Mississippi, Louisiana and Alabama - must be due to all the big cities in these 3 states.

By the way, Florida has a higher per capita murder rate than NY. I guess our governor is not tough enough on crime.

Tell me you didn't watch the video without telling me you didn't watch the video...

Cities with the highest murder rates:

1. Jackson, Mississippi
2. New Orleans, Louisiana
3. Birmingham, Alabama

Analysis: For second straight year, Jackson’s homicide rate ranks highest in U.S. among major cities (https://www.wlbt.com/2023/01/07/analysis-second-straight-year-jacksons-homicide-rate-ranks-highest-us-among-major-cities/)

Oh, and btw, WHERE are those murders being committed in FL? And WHO is running those cities?

NYC does not = NY State...

[Pballer]

Tell me you didn't watch the video without telling me you didn't watch the video...

Cities with the highest murder rates:

1. Jackson, Mississippi
2. New Orleans, Louisiana
3. Birmingham, Alabama

Analysis: For second straight year, Jackson’s homicide rate ranks highest in U.S. among major cities (https://www.wlbt.com/2023/01/07/analysis-second-straight-year-jacksons-homicide-rate-ranks-highest-us-among-major-cities/)

Oh, and btw, WHERE are those murders being committed in FL? And WHO is running those cities?

NYC does not = NY State...

The per capita murder rate of NYC itself is much lower than that of these 3 states and barely above Florida as a whole. Sorry it doesn't fit your narrative.

[Taltarzac725]

Think the trouble with the Old West mentality is that many of those with guns back then could not shoot worth a damn especially if someone was shooting back at them.

[JMintzer]

The per capita murder rate of NYC itself is much lower than that of these 3 states and barely above Florida as a whole. Sorry it doesn't fit your narrative.

It was never part of my narrative...

[Papa_lecki]

Are murder rates higher in open carry counties?

Well, In Pennsylvania, the ONLY county you need a license to OPEN carry is Philadelphia - where 516 people were killed last year - so I would say no.

You can open carry in any other county in PA without a license to carry

[Papa_lecki]

In 2020 the states with the highest per capita murder rates were Mississippi, Louisiana and Alabama - must be due to all the big cities in these 3 states.

By the way, Florida has a higher per capita murder rate than NY. I guess our governor is not tough enough on crime.

Tell you what, you go into NY City and spend the night walking the streets - I’ll do the same thing here. See who feels safer.
You pick the city in FLA, Orlando, Miami, Tampa?

[Taltarzac725]

Tell you what, you go into NY City and spend the night walking the streets - I’ll do the same thing here. See who feels safer.
You pick the city in FLA, Orlando, Miami, Tampa?

There are some very nice areas of both NYC at various cities and towns in FL. There are also many very bad areas in both NYC and towns and cities in Florida. The Villages is one of the safest in Florida.

[Two Bills]

Considering a balloon pop sounds NOTHING like a firearm discharge…..

I see the Literalist Club is alive and well on TOTV.

[tjlee500]

I have a FL concealed carry license. I had to have training and went through background check with fingerprints etc. I think that is the best way to proceed. Training is essential, just like what we all go through in getting a drivers license. I want every person carrying to have basic training. It is necessary. Personally, I go to the shooting range on a regular basis and have taken additional courses. I also keep abreast of FL laws concerning firearms.

[Sandy and Ed]

It will still be the obligation of those wishing to carry, to know the laws and restrictions. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.
It’s the potential victim of an inexperienced gun carrier that concerns me. Concealed carry should require some license. There are people that act spontaneously and irrationally - some with diagnosed mental conditions that should not carry. Bipolar off meds, early onset dementia, etc. Not bad people but simply not always wired right. Hard question with no easy answers

[gettingby]

I think that carrying a concealed firearm SHOULD require special licenses and training and methods to keep mental patients and recent felons from buying or carrying guns.
......I would be fine with non-concealed carry, BUT..........a big BUT.......if I were in charge of the US, I would require all guns sold to civilians to be SINGLE-SHOT (EVEN including pistols). That way there could be very few MASS MURDERS.
........Everyone knows that the US has the MOST Gun violence and the MOST guns. That is a DIRECT PROPORTION where more VIOLENCE happens because of MORE guns in society. The US bar chart of gun VIOLENCE compared to other countries is COMPLETELY "off the chart".
..........America has to wake up some time from this national NIGHTMARE caused by the ALL-POWERFUL greed and power promoted for the GUN manufacturers by the NRA.



I’m glad you’re not in office. The only mass shootings we would have is when only the bad guys have guns (I put the government in that pile too)

[Hardlyworking]

I’m glad you’re not in office. The only mass shootings we would have is when only the bad guys have guns (I put the government in that pile too)

Unfortunately, there are way too many people in office with this mindset.

[RMHisle]

No, do I want every wacko on the street packing, hell no.
The bigger question is why do retired LEO's have to qualify every year, and CCL holders only every 7 years ?
Wackos are not allowed to own firearms.

[ThirdOfFive]

It’s the potential victim of an inexperienced gun carrier that concerns me. Concealed carry should require some license. There are people that act spontaneously and irrationally - some with diagnosed mental conditions that should not carry. Bipolar off meds, early onset dementia, etc. Not bad people but simply not always wired right. Hard question with no easy answers
Good points. All too often it is what a person DOESN'T know about guns that ends up chomping them in the shorts.

Maybe an answer is not to mandate training only if and when someone buys a gun with the intent to carry, but to make gun education mandatory in schools. The odds of that happening today are probably slim and none, given the hysteria and anti-gun bias in today's culture, but back in the day that training was freely available, though in Minnesota not a required class. But the mindset at that time was different: guns were tools, and being educated as to tool use was seen as totally logical, no different in intent than learning how to use a table saw in shop class, or becoming competent with an arc welder.

Knowing about guns goes a long way toward un-demonizing (is that a word) guns.

[Softball77]

Anyone pruchasing a weapon still has to pass the federal background check. That disqualifies many purchasers.

[La lamy]

Simply answered OP, I'm a DEFINITE NO!

[ThirdOfFive]

Simply answered OP, I'm a DEFINITE NO!
Indeed. However the number of persons with concealed carry permits already in The Villages is as I understand it much higher than in Florida as a whole (I could find no hard-and-fast numbers on this but this wisdom was shared by a gun safety instructor so I have no reason to doubt its veracity), constitutional carry would probably not add many guns to the number already being carried out there.

[dewilson58]

(I could find no hard-and-fast numbers .

Less than 14,000 CCP's in Sumter.

[me4vt]

The Florida legislature is even now considering "constitutional carry" (House Bill 543, Companion Senate Bill 150) for the state of Florida. Briefly stated, constitutional carry would allow any Floridian of legal age and not otherwise forbidden to own a firearm, to carry one in public without having to obtain a permit to do so. The current permitting system would remain in effect however for those who wish to access it, most probably because of reciprocity agreements between Florida and other states.

What many people don't realize is how common constitutional carry is in America. Fully half the states already allow it. Besides Florida, the states of Nebraska, South Carolina, and New Mexico are also considering going that route as well.

I confess to being of two minds on the issue. After all, it is called "Constitutional carry" for a reason. But merely OWNING a gun does not guarantee that the owner will be able to USE it in a lawful and safe manner. The current system in Florida does provide a way to assure that a permit holder has demonstrated at least a minimum knowledge of the law as well as showing he/she has basic skills in how to use a firearm in a self-defense situation.

Is this something we want to see come to The Villages?
The Villages don’t set State Law! So the question do “We” want it coming to The Villages, isn’t a question! It’s State Law not Village Law!!!

[Malsua]

Less than 14,000 CCP's in Sumter.

That's rookie numbers. Gonna blame it on all the northeast transplants although I have had a FL carry license since 2009, long before I bought down here.

Bad guys have always carried, so if someone carrying bothers you, I hate to break it to you but it happens around you, all the time. Good guys with permits and bad guys with bad intent carry and you simply are unaware of it.

My S&W bodyguard .380 fits in my front pocket in its holster. Even in tighter blue jeans it looks like keys or something.

[me4vt]

“We The People” don’t do business with those businesses that Post this sign!!


The Florida legislature is even now considering "constitutional carry" (House Bill 543, Companion Senate Bill 150) for the state of Florida. Briefly stated, constitutional carry would allow any Floridian of legal age and not otherwise forbidden to own a firearm, to carry one in public without having to obtain a permit to do so. The current permitting system would remain in effect however for those who wish to access it, most probably because of reciprocity agreements between Florida and other states.

What many people don't realize is how common constitutional carry is in America. Fully half the states already allow it. Besides Florida, the states of Nebraska, South Carolina, and New Mexico are also considering going that route as well.

I confess to being of two minds on the issue. After all, it is called "Constitutional carry" for a reason. But merely OWNING a gun does not guarantee that the owner will be able to USE it in a lawful and safe manner. The current system in Florida does provide a way to assure that a permit holder has demonstrated at least a minimum knowledge of the law as well as showing he/she has basic skills in how to use a firearm in a self-defense situation.

Is this something we want to see come to The Villages?

[Chamo]

One bullet …………. LMAO
You better be a dam good shot

[ThirdOfFive]

The Villages don’t set State Law! So the question do “We” want it coming to The Villages, isn’t a question! It’s State Law not Village Law!!!
And the winnah....for Glaringly Obvious Point of the Day, is...

[Papa_lecki]

One bullet …………. LMAO
You better be a dam good shot

But that’s all they need on TV

[bluecenturian]

Know your facts.

Retired LEO have to qualify each year to maintain their HR218 which is issued by their retiring agency. This agency will be subject to civil liability in a shooting therefore they require proficiency. CCP have no other agency backing them so the proficiency and liability would be on the individual.

Retired LEO get a retired ID AND a HR218 permit. You are not covered under HR218 without a valid permit which expires annually. I know plenty of retired who choose not to get the 218 and have a CCP instead since they have no plans traveling outside their home state with a firearm.

[Cheapbas]

Well, I don't....... because there are a lot of "Hotheads", uptight seniors, inflexible seniors, and demented seniors locate here. Not to mention the excessive drinking that is prevalent here.

Let’s see what happens when someone lays on their horn at the person in front for taking a split second to long to advance at a stop. People with guns in their golf carts isn’t going to work out well.

[Daxdog]

The Florida legislature is even now considering "constitutional carry" (House Bill 543, Companion Senate Bill 150) for the state of Florida. Briefly stated, constitutional carry would allow any Floridian of legal age and not otherwise forbidden to own a firearm, to carry one in public without having to obtain a permit to do so. The current permitting system would remain in effect however for those who wish to access it, most probably because of reciprocity agreements between Florida and other states.

What many people don't realize is how common constitutional carry is in America. Fully half the states already allow it. Besides Florida, the states of Nebraska, South Carolina, and New Mexico are also considering going that route as well.




I confess to being of two minds on the issue. After all, it is called "Constitutional carry" for a reason. But merely OWNING a gun does not guarantee that the owner will be able to USE it in a lawful and safe manner. The current system in Florida does provide a way to assure that a permit holder has demonstrated at least a minimum knowledge of the law as well as showing he/she has basic skills in how to use a firearm in a self-defense situation.

Is this something we want to see come to The Villages?


I don’t think it will increase the number of guns a lot, criminals don’t care about the law, and have you ever taken a class to conceal carry. Not much to it and to pass you only have to fire one round to qualify. Not sure about what retired police have to do, but ex military only have to pay the fee, no class required. It’s not like we have open carry, that would really upset some of our residents from NY and Ca. If you don’t try to hurt me of my wife you would never know if I’m carrying. If you don’t like guns, don’t buy one.

[Byte1]

Why stop with concealed carry…..go for open carry!
The macho guys can show off their pretty guns.:duck:

Or.....perhaps those "macho guys" can show off their pretty cars? Oh wait.....did you mean "guns" as in their muscular bodies? I am sure that the thousands of "guys" (and females) that carry concealed in the local area do not consider themselves "macho" but I may be mistaken. Some probably carry for self defense, but I may be mistaken about that also.

[MrFlorida]

I would be more worried about the criminals that carry guns than regular citizens....watch the local news, it's always the bad guys creating the all the problems, especially in Orange county.

[jebartle]

i think that carrying a concealed firearm should require special licenses and training and methods to keep mental patients and recent felons from buying or carrying guns.
......i would be fine with non-concealed carry, but..........a big but.......if i were in charge of the us, i would require all guns sold to civilians to be single-shot (even including pistols). That way there could be very few mass murders.
........everyone knows that the us has the most gun violence and the most guns. That is a direct proportion where more violence happens because of more guns in society. The us bar chart of gun violence compared to other countries is completely "off the chart".
..........america has to wake up some time from this national nightmare caused by the all-powerful greed and power promoted for the gun manufacturers by the nra.

amen!!!!!

[jimschlaefer]

I'm a strong supporter of Constitutional Carry. As a former NRA Pistol Instructor, Bullseye competitor and USMC veteran I am also a strong proponent for those who carry to be effectively trained in laws, technique and marksmanship. Firearms are dangerous and, in untrained hands, as much of a threat to innocent bystanders as they are to a threat. Case in point: I attended a licensing class in Texas where they required a practical part of the process to be accomplished on the range in order to qualify for the permit. A young man there was literally unable to hit a man-sized target at 7 yards. That was a dangerous situation. I'm often asked for my opinion on what folks should consider for defense. My personal opinion is that those who are not willing to practice and be effective with a pistol should consider not carrying a sidearm. That's not to define the law to carry, but the individual choice to carry. High stress, high adrenaline situations are no place for "spray and pray" self defense techniques.

[Byte1]

Let’s see what happens when someone lays on their horn at the person in front for taking a split second to long to advance at a stop. People with guns in their golf carts isn’t going to work out well.

Do you really think that we don't already have many CCW carrying while driving a golf cart or automobile in The Villages? Apparently folks on here think that anyone that carries a firearm are loose cannons (no pun intended) waiting to go off at the slightest provocation. Seems like a lot of hysteria over "what if."

[bark4me]

No, do I want every wacko on the street packing, hell no.
The bigger question is why do retired LEO's have to qualify every year, and CCL holders only every 7 years ?
Because of HR218

[JMintzer]

It’s the potential victim of an inexperienced gun carrier that concerns me. Concealed carry should require some license. There are people that act spontaneously and irrationally - some with diagnosed mental conditions that should not carry. Bipolar off meds, early onset dementia, etc. Not bad people but simply not always wired right. Hard question with no easy answers

Most of the people you mentioned are prohibited from buy a firearm, let alone carrying one...

[Lindsyburnsy]

The Florida legislature is even now considering "constitutional carry" (House Bill 543, Companion Senate Bill 150) for the state of Florida. Briefly stated, constitutional carry would allow any Floridian of legal age and not otherwise forbidden to own a firearm, to carry one in public without having to obtain a permit to do so. The current permitting system would remain in effect however for those who wish to access it, most probably because of reciprocity agreements between Florida and other states.

What many people don't realize is how common constitutional carry is in America. Fully half the states already allow it. Besides Florida, the states of Nebraska, South Carolina, and New Mexico are also considering going that route as well.

I confess to being of two minds on the issue. After all, it is called "Constitutional carry" for a reason. But merely OWNING a gun does not guarantee that the owner will be able to USE it in a lawful and safe manner. The current system in Florida does provide a way to assure that a permit holder has demonstrated at least a minimum knowledge of the law as well as showing he/she has basic skills in how to use a firearm in a self-defense situation.

Is this something we want to see come to The Villages?
So, explain to me why it's safe to carry weapons anywhere, EXCEPT at an NRA Convention or certain political rallies? Why is that exactly?

[JMintzer]

That's rookie numbers. Gonna blame it on all the northeast transplants although I have had a FL carry license since 2009, long before I bought down here.

Bad guys have always carried, so if someone carrying bothers you, I hate to break it to you but it happens around you, all the time. Good guys with permits and bad guys with bad intent carry and you simply are unaware of it.

My S&W bodyguard .380 fits in my front pocket in its holster. Even in tighter blue jeans it looks like keys or something.

I have a FL CCW, but my permanent address is still in MD...

I'd tend to think I'm not a unicorn...

[JMintzer]

Let’s see what happens when someone lays on their horn at the person in front for taking a split second to long to advance at a stop. People with guns in their golf carts isn’t going to work out well.

Yes, there have been sooo many cases of that happening already...

Wait, what?

[JMintzer]

Or.....perhaps those "macho guys" can show off their pretty cars? Oh wait.....did you mean "guns" as in their muscular bodies? I am sure that the thousands of "guys" (and females) that carry concealed in the local area do not consider themselves "macho" but I may be mistaken. Some probably carry for self defense, but I may be mistaken about that also.

It's called "projection"...

[NoMo50]

Know your facts.

Retired LEO have to qualify each year to maintain their HR218 which is issued by their retiring agency. This agency will be subject to civil liability in a shooting therefore they require proficiency. CCP have no other agency backing them so the proficiency and liability would be on the individual.

Retired LEO get a retired ID AND a HR218 permit. You are not covered under HR218 without a valid permit which expires annually. I know plenty of retired who choose not to get the 218 and have a CCP instead since they have no plans traveling outside their home state with a firearm.

Yes, you should know your facts.

HR218 is the colloquial reference to the Federal statute known as the Law Enforcement Officer's Safety Act (LEOSA), originally enacted in 2004. HR218 was the House bill that started it.

There is no such thing as an "HR218 permit." And, there is no permit issued by an officer's retiring agency. There are a great many factors that go into determining whether or not a retired police officer meets the requirements of LEOSA, but the bare minimums are:

1. Must have retired in good standing from a law enforcement agency with a minimum 10 years of qualified service.
2. Must have been issued, and carry on his/her person an ID card that specifies they are a retired peace officer.
3. Within the past 12 months, must have successfully qualified with a handgun, to at least the standards dictated by the state in which he/she resides. Proof of such qualification must be carried on their person.

So, a retired officer gets a "retired police ID" from their former agency. He gets an annual qualification card from whomever put that retired officer through a qual course. The "retiring agency" has no liability, as the only thing they certify is that the individual has retired from that department. Again, no HR218 "permit" is issued by anyone. You don't need a permit to benefit from the provisions of Federal law. You don't have a free speech permit, do you?

Here in The Villages, the Sumter County Sheriff holds annual qualification sessions for retired police officers, to allow them to satisfy that requirement under LEOSA. The Sheriff's Department just finished those sessions this month, with the shooting sessions being held at Shooters World. Both the Sheriff, and Shooters World, offer this service free of charge to the retired officers. This year, nearly 700 retired police officers took part in those sessions.

Apologies for the lengthy post, but it is important to get your facts straight.

[JMintzer]

Do you really think that we don't already have many CCW carrying while driving a golf cart or automobile in The Villages? Apparently folks on here think that anyone that carries a firearm are loose cannons (no pun intended) waiting to go off at the slightest provocation. Seems like a lot of hysteria over "what if."

Again, "projection"...

They don't trust themselves with a firearm, so they don't trust anyone else...

[JMintzer]

So, explain to me why it's safe to carry weapons anywhere, EXCEPT at an NRA Convention or certain political rallies? Why is that exactly?

Insurance regulations from the rented convention center...

[cjrjck]

I think that carrying a concealed firearm SHOULD require special licenses and training and methods to keep mental patients and recent felons from buying or carrying guns.
......I would be fine with non-concealed carry, BUT..........a big BUT.......if I were in charge of the US, I would require all guns sold to civilians to be SINGLE-SHOT (EVEN including pistols). That way there could be very few MASS MURDERS.
........Everyone knows that the US has the MOST Gun violence and the MOST guns. That is a DIRECT PROPORTION where more VIOLENCE happens because of MORE guns in society. The US bar chart of gun VIOLENCE compared to other countries is COMPLETELY "off the chart".
..........America has to wake up some time from this national NIGHTMARE caused by the ALL-POWERFUL greed and power promoted for the GUN manufacturers by the NRA.

Likely the new law restricts felons and those with certain mental issues from carrying a firearm. If they do so, it would be contrary to the law no different than now. Permit notwithstanding.

[Bilyclub]

No, do I want every wacko on the street packing, hell no.
The bigger question is why do retired LEO's have to qualify every year, and CCL holders only every 7 years ?

This was a rhetorical question. I most certainly know why, and most of the answer is politicians.
Some of your replies were so wrong.

[cjrjck]

Many will remember the 18th amendment to the Constitution. Commonly referred to as prohibition. And the 21st amendment that repealed it. As you can see, there is a process to change the Constitution of the United States. The wise founders made sure it would be a difficult process . However, if the desired goal is popular enough, history shows it can be done. For those who think the 2nd amendment needs to be changed, more power to you. But there is a process in place to do it.

[Mrfriendly]

I always have this vision of a Christmas balloon exploding in a local Walmarts, Publix, Restaurant etc. and about half the geriatrics with guns blasting at anything that moves.
Then the Police arrive and start shooting, adding to the mayhem.
Make a great finale to a film.
"Gunfight at the Golden Coral!"

I have this vision of starting a new club named The Golden Coral Gunfight Club where people angry at one another can “Let’s take this outside” and take care of business. Just not in Hadley area rec centers. 😎

[me4vt]

Well, I don't....... because there are a lot of "Hotheads", uptight seniors, inflexible seniors, and demented seniors locate here. Not to mention the excessive drinking that is prevalent here.
And you fall in that category;)

[srswans]

I have a FL concealed carry license. I had to have training and went through background check with fingerprints etc. I think that is the best way to proceed. Training is essential, just like what we all go through in getting a drivers license. I want every person carrying to have basic training. It is necessary. Personally, I go to the shooting range on a regular basis and have taken additional courses. I also keep abreast of FL laws concerning firearms.

Agree totally. Need to practice frequently including not just firing a weapon but also get training on tactical situations and some practice exercises too. (Same goes for driving - take some defensive driving courses at a race track - you’d be surprised at how much it helps,)

[Wondering]

The Florida legislature is even now considering "constitutional carry" (House Bill 543, Companion Senate Bill 150) for the state of Florida. Briefly stated, constitutional carry would allow any Floridian of legal age and not otherwise forbidden to own a firearm, to carry one in public without having to obtain a permit to do so. The current permitting system would remain in effect however for those who wish to access it, most probably because of reciprocity agreements between Florida and other states.

What many people don't realize is how common constitutional carry is in America. Fully half the states already allow it. Besides Florida, the states of Nebraska, South Carolina, and New Mexico are also considering going that route as well.

I confess to being of two minds on the issue. After all, it is called "Constitutional carry" for a reason. But merely OWNING a gun does not guarantee that the owner will be able to USE it in a lawful and safe manner. The current system in Florida does provide a way to assure that a permit holder has demonstrated at least a minimum knowledge of the law as well as showing he/she has basic skills in how to use a firearm in a self-defense situation.

Is this something we want to see come to The Villages?
Florida and some States are going back to the Wild, Wild West days of our country - pathetic when there are more guns in the US than people and more gun violence and deaths that any other industrialized country in the world. Shame on our politicians!

[ThirdOfFive]

I'm a strong supporter of Constitutional Carry. As a former NRA Pistol Instructor, Bullseye competitor and USMC veteran I am also a strong proponent for those who carry to be effectively trained in laws, technique and marksmanship. Firearms are dangerous and, in untrained hands, as much of a threat to innocent bystanders as they are to a threat. Case in point: I attended a licensing class in Texas where they required a practical part of the process to be accomplished on the range in order to qualify for the permit. A young man there was literally unable to hit a man-sized target at 7 yards. That was a dangerous situation. I'm often asked for my opinion on what folks should consider for defense. My personal opinion is that those who are not willing to practice and be effective with a pistol should consider not carrying a sidearm. That's not to define the law to carry, but the individual choice to carry. High stress, high adrenaline situations are no place for "spray and pray" self defense techniques.
Excellent points.

One thing mentioned that I think deserves more discussion is the variance in carry permit classes, state-to-state and even within a state. My wife and I were one of the first to get our permits in Minnesota nearly 20 years ago now, and the qualification class was a two-day affair: the first morning was spent discussing firearms in general, intense classroom discussion on the applicable laws, what is and what is not permitted, etc. The second day included a morning of more discussion, then an afternoon at the range where each of us demonstrated proficiency in loading, proper holstering, firing no fewer than 50 rounds from varying distances--all the hands-on stuff that goes with a permit to carry. The class was taught by an ex-cop who really knew his stuff and made sure we not only learned it but could demonstrate the knowledge when it came to actually handling the firearm. Renewals, done every five years there, were much less comprehensive, though in fairness they WERE renewal classes. Still, I felt that more emphasis on the laws, the do's and don'ts, would have been warranted. That, and each of us were only required to fire ten rounds.

Here in Florida we obtained our permits via an instructor who really knew her stuff. The advantage was that it was a class of two people, my wife and myself, so we got a lot of individualized attention and were able to ask a lot of questions. We each fired about 30 rounds, again from varying distances, discussed various situations that we might encounter, etc.

I would really question any "instructor" who only required students to fire one round as one post indicated. Such a class may fulfill the letter of the law but what can you really gain from that? Not much, I'm afraid.

[srswans]

Good points. All too often it is what a person DOESN'T know about guns that ends up chomping them in the shorts.

Maybe an answer is not to mandate training only if and when someone buys a gun with the intent to carry, but to make gun education mandatory in schools. The odds of that happening today are probably slim and none, given the hysteria and anti-gun bias in today's culture, but back in the day that training was freely available, though in Minnesota not a required class. But the mindset at that time was different: guns were tools, and being educated as to tool use was seen as totally logical, no different in intent than learning how to use a table saw in shop class, or becoming competent with an arc welder.

Knowing about guns goes a long way toward un-demonizing (is that a word) guns.

Growing up in the midwest, the county had a gun safety program for teenagers and most of us attended upon turning 13.

[Rolson08]

So that more six-year-olds can find a gun in the nightstand and shoot themselves in the face, or a 3 year finds a gun under the car seat and shoots gramma in the back. Yup, until gun owners are held completely responsible for what happens with their guns, let's just declare "open season"!!

[Boston-Sean]

I attended a licensing class in Texas where they required a practical part of the process to be accomplished on the range in order to qualify for the permit. A young man there was literally unable to hit a man-sized target at 7 yards. That was a dangerous situation.

A friend of mine was in an advanced class recently and one of the students was in way over his head. It wasn't long before he was politely kicked out of the class. Turns out he was a video game developer and wanted the experience to help him code how people move while shooting guns.

[Boston-Sean]

My personal opinion is that those who are not willing to practice and be effective with a pistol should consider not carrying a sidearm. That's not to define the law to carry, but the individual choice to carry. High stress, high adrenaline situations are no place for "spray and pray" self defense techniques.

The basic firearm safety courses give you what you need to get started. Nothing more. It's up to you to get to the range regularly and ideally get more advanced training as your skills progress. One of the biggest mistakes I see people making is purchasing their first gun with the intention of carrying it.

Buy a full size gun that's comfortable to shoot and easy to clean. Learn to shoot with that and then think about what you need in a carry gun.

[donfey]

Wait till someone shoots their foot, I’ll be nervous around people with no idea how dangerous guns are. It’s not the gun it’s the person holding it. Ask Alex Baldwin

Raise your hand if you believe nervous people, wackos, criminals, felons, or any other definition of undesirables is effectively kept from carrying a fire arm under ANY laws that prohibit them from doing so.

The licensing provision for the Concealed Carry Permit merely adds a pseudo-safeguard that responsible citizens will, initially, be trained to minimal standards. It also makes it easier for them to purchase fire arms. (It does NOT, however, exclude them from undergoing the required background check.)

[ScottGo]

Many will remember the 18th amendment to the Constitution. Commonly referred to as prohibition. And the 21st amendment that repealed it. As you can see, there is a process to change the Constitution of the United States. The wise founders made sure it would be a difficult process . However, if the desired goal is popular enough, history shows it can be done. For those who think the 2nd amendment needs to be changed, more power to you. But there is a process in place to do it.


And who would run on this campaign? In this state they would LOOSE in a landslide. Unfortunatly it will not change. Already more mass killings (3+people) than days of this year 2-19-23.

[cjrjck]

Know your facts.

Retired LEO have to qualify each year to maintain their HR218 which is issued by their retiring agency. Not exactly. If the retired LEO wishes to carry concealed, he/she will have to show evidence he met the firearms qualifications within the last year from the date he is carrying concealed. The officer can choose to not qualify for any extended period of time but will not be able to legally carry concealed if he/she did not qualify within the last year. The officer can of course go through the qualification at any point to get back into status

This agency will be subject to civil liability in a shooting therefore they require proficiency. I doubt the agency has any liability concerning retirees. No more than the state has for those who are issued a CCP. The individual in both instances is the one who is held liable for any action deemed contrary to law involving the use of a concealed firearm.

Retired LEO get a retired ID AND a HR218 permit. Retired LEOs might receive the proper credentials from their previous employer. Some agencies do not issue them and cannot be compelled to do so. Those agencies also do not issue an HR 218 permit. There is no such thing. The law stipulates that a qualified LEO, retired or not, with the proper credentials can carry concealed under LEOSA. However, one of the stipulations is that the LEO must show that he/she met the firearm qualification standards of the former agency or that of the state he/she now resides within the previous year of the date that LEO chooses to carry concealed. Some agencies do not offer firearm qualifications to former employees or the employee has moved. So there are usually options. Florida has a state sanctioned LEO qualification standard and firearm qualification is made available to qualified persons at a cost through private state-sanctioned individuals. The state nor the firearms qualifier can be held liable for the actions of those they qualify. Nor do they issue an HR 218 permit. They do issue a card that serves as documentation to allow the retired LEO to show that he or she has met the qualification requirement ; and assuming it was less than a year prior to the date he or she is carrying concealed, then that part of the statute requirements has been met.

You are not covered under HR218 without a valid permit which expires annually. I know plenty of retired who choose not to get the 218 and have a CCP instead since they have no plans traveling outside their home state with a firearm. There is no such thing as a HR 218 permit. The firearms qualification documentation can be a card or letter or such. It is not a permit. Those retired LEOs you know can at anytime meet the firearms qualification again and carry concealed under LEOSA assuming they are otherwise qualified and have the proper credentials issued to them at retirement. Also, a state issued CCP is not always restricted to the state in which it was issued. Many states have reciprocal agreements with other states.

LEOSA can be confusing. There is so much disinformation out there.

[Regorp]

The Florida legislature is even now considering "constitutional carry" (House Bill 543, Companion Senate Bill 150) for the state of Florida. Briefly stated, constitutional carry would allow any Floridian of legal age and not otherwise forbidden to own a firearm, to carry one in public without having to obtain a permit to do so. The current permitting system would remain in effect however for those who wish to access it, most probably because of reciprocity agreements between Florida and other states.

What many people don't realize is how common constitutional carry is in America. Fully half the states already allow it. Besides Florida, the states of Nebraska, South Carolina, and New Mexico are also considering going that route as well.

I confess to being of two minds on the issue. After all, it is called "Constitutional carry" for a reason. But merely OWNING a gun does not guarantee that the owner will be able to USE it in a lawful and safe manner. The current system in Florida does provide a way to assure that a permit holder has demonstrated at least a minimum knowledge of the law as well as showing he/she has basic skills in how to use a firearm in a self-defense situation.

Is this something we want to see come to The Villages?

Pretty soon everywhere will be like Dodge City or Tombstone of the old west. Dangerous!

[Boston-Sean]

Pretty soon everywhere will be like Dodge City or Tombstone of the old west. Dangerous!

There are 25 (maybe 26) states with concealed carry now.

Please list the ones that are like Dodge City or Tombstone.

Take your time. We'll wait.

[sallyg]

Nope. Bad idea.

[NoMo50]

LEOSA can be confusing. There is so much disinformation out there.

Yes, it can be confusing...at least to those who do not fall under its provisions, and actively participate in order to remain current. Which is why, in my previous post, I simply laid out the bare minimums that are required for retired officers to remain "current."

However, at its core, LEOSA is just another Federal statute. Like all statutes, it has elements that comprise its workings. Under the Federal statute, a retired police officer is authorized to carry concealed in any state, along with all U.S. territories and possessions, as long as he/she meets all of the elements laid out in the statute.

As you correctly state, there is no HR218 (LEOSA) permit. Should a retired officer, carrying concealed under LEOSA, ever be challenged by law enforcement for carrying, he/she merely needs to show a Retired ID card, along with a current qualification certification. Those two documents are their "permit."

Those who do not know the elements of LEOSA should refrain from offering opinions or "facts" about its workings. One of the main components that led to the original passage of HR218 (LEOSA) was its prominence as a "force multiplier." Giving retired officers, who were highly trained and had worked with firearms for most of their working life, the ability to carry weapons anywhere in the country was an idea with merit. It still is. I, for one, have absolutely no problem with retired police officers continuing to carry weapons while they are amongst us.

[JP]

Until they get all the illegal guns out of the hands of criminals law abiding citizens deserve to carry.

[MrFlorida]

So, most of you would rather only criminals have guns?

[Hardlyworking]

Nope. Bad idea.

You do realize that criminals when carrying a firearm are probably doing so without a permit? How do you feel about that?

[MandoMan]

The Florida legislature is even now considering "constitutional carry" (House Bill 543, Companion Senate Bill 150) for the state of Florida. Briefly stated, constitutional carry would allow any Floridian of legal age and not otherwise forbidden to own a firearm, to carry one in public without having to obtain a permit to do so. The current permitting system would remain in effect however for those who wish to access it, most probably because of reciprocity agreements between Florida and other states.

What many people don't realize is how common constitutional carry is in America. Fully half the states already allow it. Besides Florida, the states of Nebraska, South Carolina, and New Mexico are also considering going that route as well.

I confess to being of two minds on the issue. After all, it is called "Constitutional carry" for a reason. But merely OWNING a gun does not guarantee that the owner will be able to USE it in a lawful and safe manner. The current system in Florida does provide a way to assure that a permit holder has demonstrated at least a minimum knowledge of the law as well as showing he/she has basic skills in how to use a firearm in a self-defense situation.

Is this something we want to see come to The Villages?

While The Villages has an extremely low crime rate, Florida—including some of the surrounding towns—has a very high rate of violent crimes, one of the highest in the country. I’ve never seen a Villager carrying either open or concealed, but I know a very large percentage of Villagers have guns. If more of them started carrying them, I would feel a bit nervous, but it wouldn’t scare me.

However, arresting people for illegal concealed carrying of firearms is one of the major ways that law enforcement officers get the Criminal Element off the streets and into prison where they belong, at least for a day or two. There are certainly parts of Florida that will have more gun-carrying criminals on the street if this were passed, and it would be harder to get them off the street. If they want to shoot each other, I don’t care, good riddance, but I don’t want them shooting at the rest of us.

[Sabrina&Bill]

What is someone going to do if the low life thug has a knife , not a firearm, and is intent on doing harm? If your body is as broken down as mine, you sure as Hades aren't going be able to fight him and take his knife. You aren't going to out run him either. Even a healthy 20 something stud is going to be in a hurt against a knife wielding thug. Do you really think a young 100 lb woman is going to fare any better? Sure, you could carry a knife yourself but just how effective are you going to be? I'll answer that, you are going to be on the losing end. There have been may incidents where multiple low life scum bags without a weapon have beaten a person to death with their fists and feet. The only thing a cop can do for you is call for an ambulance or the coroner and hopefully find a witness to the crime.

I will get to Number 10 GI's post in a minute but just wanted to address the OP's statement about the possibility of Constitutional Carry here in FL, specially, in TV. Personally, in my opinion, I don't think it would make much difference here in TV. I have my FL CCW and never carry while here in TV and only carry when I plan to travel beyond "the bubble". I feel very safe here and have the opinion that there are others, like myself who have made the decision to leave their weapon locked up at home. Again, just my opinion. I always carry pepper spray and a knife with me 100% of the time.
I just wonder about the folks from states like NY where carrying (or ever owning) a gun is near to impossible? I wonder if you obtained your FL CCW and enjoy concealed carrying while in TV?
As for the person I quoted above; what you said really resonated with me. I am in my sixties now, I am not as strong as I once was and nor am I as fast on my feet. These days, I read of too many stories of innocent people walking the street and are robbed of their belongings and then beaten senseless often times left in a coma barely hanging on to life. I don't want that to happen to me (or anyone)! I hope that makes sense to most of you? I try to train as often as I can, usually a class every two years. I also read a lot of articles about justified shoots and questionable ones. I am supporter of the 2nd Amendment and in the same breath, I hope I never have to shoot someone.
I could go on but just want to end up with this final thought; there's a lot of murders/killings taking place all over the US and "yes", a majority of them take place in big cities, and "yes", often times a bullet is used, but not always. I think it's time to just agree that there is a lot of violence in American Culture, for whatever reason. Does it matter if someone is killed by a bullet, a knife, baseball bat, pipe, cars, trucks, bombs etc but there's always more focus when the bullet is used. What about all the serial killers who abduct men, woman and/or children and torture and abuse them till death? My point is, there's a lot of "people" out there who are not right in the head (for lack of a better word). For me, I carry because I refuse to be a victim. I carry to protect myself, my family, and friends.

[Bogie Shooter]

Until they get all the illegal guns out of the hands of criminals law abiding citizens deserve to carry.

Who is they?

[jimjamuser]

I have this vision of starting a new club named The Golden Coral Gunfight Club where people angry at one another can “Let’s take this outside” and take care of business. Just not in Hadley area rec centers. 😎
One interesting thing might be a quick draw contest set up by age range like 50 to 60 and etc. Not sure how the details would go in order to have complete safety.

[RiderOnTheStorm]

Excellent points.

One thing mentioned that I think deserves more discussion is the variance in carry permit classes, state-to-state and even within a state. My wife and I were one of the first to get our permits in Minnesota nearly 20 years ago now, and the qualification class was a two-day affair: the first morning was spent discussing firearms in general, intense classroom discussion on the applicable laws, what is and what is not permitted, etc. The second day included a morning of more discussion, then an afternoon at the range where each of us demonstrated proficiency in loading, proper holstering, firing no fewer than 50 rounds from varying distances--all the hands-on stuff that goes with a permit to carry. The class was taught by an ex-cop who really knew his stuff and made sure we not only learned it but could demonstrate the knowledge when it came to actually handling the firearm. Renewals, done every five years there, were much less comprehensive, though in fairness they WERE renewal classes. Still, I felt that more emphasis on the laws, the do's and don'ts, would have been warranted. That, and each of us were only required to fire ten rounds.

Here in Florida we obtained our permits via an instructor who really knew her stuff. The advantage was that it was a class of two people, my wife and myself, so we got a lot of individualized attention and were able to ask a lot of questions. We each fired about 30 rounds, again from varying distances, discussed various situations that we might encounter, etc.

I would really question any "instructor" who only required students to fire one round as one post indicated. Such a class may fulfill the letter of the law but what can you really gain from that? Not much, I'm afraid.

Excellent training requirements. BTW: In NY you do not need to fire a single round to obtain a CCP.

[jimjamuser]

Florida and some States are going back to the Wild, Wild West days of our country - pathetic when there are more guns in the US than people and more gun violence and deaths that any other industrialized country in the world. Shame on our politicians!
I definitely agree. I seem to remember the days before about 1970 when the NRA was a TRUE hunting magazine. Today the NRA is like a "soldiers of fortune" rabid militant organization. I stopped my membership when their magazine and emphasis became on MAN-KILLING weapons. I ALWAYS would shoot at a target with a BULLSEYE - I NEVER shot at a target with some nasty looking dude on it.........that is JUST SICK !!!!!!

[RiderOnTheStorm]

So that more six-year-olds can find a gun in the nightstand and shoot themselves in the face, or a 3 year finds a gun under the car seat and shoots gramma in the back. Yup, until gun owners are held completely responsible for what happens with their guns, let's just declare "open season"!!

One of the ,most fundamental aspects of gun safety is control of the firearm, including placing it under lock and key when not being used. Responsible owners do not store them in the nightstand or under the carseat when children are around. Child-related firearm events are very, very rare, probably much less than children dying from ingesting carelessly stored narcotics, setting fires from available matches, or pouring kettles of steaming water on themselves, but they do get much more press. There is no such "open season". Respectfully, your argument might make more sense if not for the bellicose emotion.

[jimjamuser]

Until they get all the illegal guns out of the hands of criminals law abiding citizens deserve to carry.
That IS not very LOGICAL. It is like saying that IF there were TWO suns in the sky, we would NOT need to carry guns. There is no sense or LOGIC there!

[YeOldeCurmudgeon]

The Florida legislature is even now considering "constitutional carry" (House Bill 543, Companion Senate Bill 150) for the state of Florida. Briefly stated, constitutional carry would allow any Floridian of legal age and not otherwise forbidden to own a firearm, to carry one in public without having to obtain a permit to do so. The current permitting system would remain in effect however for those who wish to access it, most probably because of reciprocity agreements between Florida and other states.

What many people don't realize is how common constitutional carry is in America. Fully half the states already allow it. Besides Florida, the states of Nebraska, South Carolina, and New Mexico are also considering going that route as well.

I confess to being of two minds on the issue. After all, it is called "Constitutional carry" for a reason. But merely OWNING a gun does not guarantee that the owner will be able to USE it in a lawful and safe manner. The current system in Florida does provide a way to assure that a permit holder has demonstrated at least a minimum knowledge of the law as well as showing he/she has basic skills in how to use a firearm in a self-defense situation.

Is this something we want to see come to The Villages?

This is insanity. Anyone who agrees to this is asking for trouble.

[Number 10 GI]

So, explain to me why it's safe to carry weapons anywhere, EXCEPT at an NRA Convention or certain political rallies? Why is that exactly?

Because when the NRA or political parties have a convention, they rent the facility where the event is to be held. The owner of the facility is the one that bans firearms, not the renters. In some instances it a city or county law that bans firearms in those buildings.

[Number 10 GI]

Again, "projection"...

They don't trust themselves with a firearm, so they don't trust anyone else...

I worked with a guy that didn't own a firearm and I asked him why. His answer, I would probably go crazy and start shooting people. He didn't think anyone else should own a gun as they probably would do the same. Now in his case it was definitely a good thing as he was quite the strange individual.

[jimjamuser]

So, most of you would rather only criminals have guns?
I would rather the gun manufacturers could only sell (by law) SINGLE-SHOT rifles, pistols, and shotguns to the PUBLIC. The military would have the automatics. And this would NOT be a problem because the ordinary citizens with the SINGLE-SHOT weapons would be able to outnumber the military so that just the repeater or non-repeater would NOT make any difference. Now the military would deploy tanks, but ordinary people could just hide their SINGLE-SHOT weapons and blend in with all the other people. The military could NOT just shoot every non-military person.
.........I state this because the people that would be against SINGLE-SHOTS would argue (incorrectly) that single-shot weapons would ENCOURAGE a military take over........I don't think so!
........This may seem RADICAL to some gun owners, but the NRA has been PREACHING for 50 years that, "It takes a GOOD guy with a GUN to neutralize a BAD guy with a GUN". Well by NOW the NRA should be made to "put-up or shut-up". Obviously, they just have that slogan to SELL MORE GUNS..........because gun violence in the US is about 20 times greater than in European countries. And it IS increasing and shows ZERO signs of stopping.
.........So, my solution MAY seem RADICAL, but at least, it IS a SOLUTION.
..........And banning military-style weapons will do ZERO because ANY semi-auto can be "accessorized" like Barby doll. So, the ONLY solution is to BAN semi-auto CIVILIAN purchases and do what I suggest or do NOTHING.......like for the last 50 years
..........Remember, Australia banned semi-auto rifles and their mass-murders went to nearly ZERO. And yes, my solution IS even more RADICAL than Australia's. But, US citizens are DYING from semi-auto guns and they will be dying at a greater RATE in the future.

[Daxdog]

The per capita murder rate of NYC itself is much lower than that of these 3 states and barely above Florida as a whole. Sorry it doesn't fit your narrative.
Come on, Chicago and Detroit have more shootings then the entire state of Fl.

[Boston-Sean]

I would rather the gun manufacturers could only sell (by law) SINGLE-SHOT rifles, pistols, and shotguns to the PUBLIC. The military would have the automatics. And this would NOT be a problem because the ordinary citizens with the SINGLE-SHOT weapons would be able to outnumber the military so that just the repeater or non-repeater would NOT make any difference. Now the military would deploy tanks, but ordinary people could just hide their SINGLE-SHOT weapons and blend in with all the other people. The military could NOT just shoot every non-military person.
.........I state this because the people that would be against SINGLE-SHOTS would argue (incorrectly) that single-shot weapons would ENCOURAGE a military take over........I don't think so!
........This may seem RADICAL to some gun owners, but the NRA has been PREACHING for 50 years that, "It takes a GOOD guy with a GUN to neutralize a BAD guy with a GUN". Well by NOW the NRA should be made to "put-up or shut-up". Obviously, they just have that slogan to SELL MORE GUNS..........because gun violence in the US is about 20 times greater than in European countries. And it IS increasing and shows ZERO signs of stopping.
.........So, my solution MAY seem RADICAL, but at least, it IS a SOLUTION.
..........And banning military-style weapons will do ZERO because ANY semi-auto can be "accessorized" like Barby doll. So, the ONLY solution is to BAN semi-auto CIVILIAN purchases and do what I suggest or do NOTHING.......like for the last 50 years
..........Remember, Australia banned semi-auto rifles and their mass-murders went to nearly ZERO. And yes, my solution IS even more RADICAL than Australia's. But, US citizens are DYING from semi-auto guns and they will be dying at a greater RATE in the future.

Anyone who has the dude blocked is missing out on some funny stuff.

[Kenswing]

Anyone who has the dude blocked is missing out on some funny stuff.
Unfortunately even though we have him blocked, every time someone quotes him we still have to see his nonsense.

[wisbad1]

That piece of paper isn’t going to mean squat if you’re involved in a shooting - justified or not.

You can’t carry (constitutional or not) if you’re a prohibited processor, you can’t buy a gun, you need to pass a background check to buy. It’s illegal to POSSESS.
If you lend your gun to a prohibited processor - you’re in deep doo doo as well - and if you don’t know if the person you are lending your gun to is a PP - don’t lend it - better yet, NEVER lend your gun.

No matter what - IT’S ILLEGAL TO KILL SOMEONE, no matter if there’s constitutional carry or not
Can’t shoot someone but a abortion is legal, makes you wonder.

[JMintzer]

Florida and some States are going back to the Wild, Wild West days of our country - pathetic when there are more guns in the US than people and more gun violence and deaths that any other industrialized country in the world. Shame on our politicians!

Nonsense... The "Wild West" was just a figment of the Dime Store Novelists and Hollywood...

Remove suicides and justifiable homicides and how many "gun deaths" do you think we have?

Japan has a similar suicide rate as the US. They just prefer to jump out of buildings...

Remove just 5 cities in the US and our "gun violence and death rate" is one of the lowest in the world...

[Hardlyworking]

Anyone who has the dude blocked is missing out on some funny stuff.

Funny stuff, but to me, not funny ha-ha. Funny weird.

[JMintzer]

Excellent points.

One thing mentioned that I think deserves more discussion is the variance in carry permit classes, state-to-state and even within a state. My wife and I were one of the first to get our permits in Minnesota nearly 20 years ago now, and the qualification class was a two-day affair: the first morning was spent discussing firearms in general, intense classroom discussion on the applicable laws, what is and what is not permitted, etc. The second day included a morning of more discussion, then an afternoon at the range where each of us demonstrated proficiency in loading, proper holstering, firing no fewer than 50 rounds from varying distances--all the hands-on stuff that goes with a permit to carry. The class was taught by an ex-cop who really knew his stuff and made sure we not only learned it but could demonstrate the knowledge when it came to actually handling the firearm. Renewals, done every five years there, were much less comprehensive, though in fairness they WERE renewal classes. Still, I felt that more emphasis on the laws, the do's and don'ts, would have been warranted. That, and each of us were only required to fire ten rounds.

Here in Florida we obtained our permits via an instructor who really knew her stuff. The advantage was that it was a class of two people, my wife and myself, so we got a lot of individualized attention and were able to ask a lot of questions. We each fired about 30 rounds, again from varying distances, discussed various situations that we might encounter, etc.

I would really question any "instructor" who only required students to fire one round as one post indicated. Such a class may fulfill the letter of the law but what can you really gain from that? Not much, I'm afraid.

I'm fully in favor of training, but the mandatory classes and what not are a significant financial burden for some.

When I first got my permit in MD, it cost over $500, took two days (I was lucky to find a weekend class, so I did't have to take time off of work)...

Now, I'm lucky that I can afford that (along with the $200, for re-training, every 3 years). But for others, it's a problem...

[JMintzer]

So that more six-year-olds can find a gun in the nightstand and shoot themselves in the face, or a 3 year finds a gun under the car seat and shoots gramma in the back. Yup, until gun owners are held completely responsible for what happens with their guns, let's just declare "open season"!!

None of that has anything to do with "Constitutional Carry", but I do agree.Those fools should be held responsible. And from what I see, they are...

[JMintzer]

A friend of mine was in an advanced class recently and one of the students was in way over his head. It wasn't long before he was politely kicked out of the class. Turns out he was a video game developer and wanted the experience to help him code how people move while shooting guns.

I took a defensive shooting course years ago and the instructors "invited" on participant to leave. He kept muzzle flashing the others in the class, firing rounds into the ground, and couldn't even load his rifle properly.

They DID offer to have him back for some one-on-one training, as he was woefully unprepared to be a gun owner...

[JMintzer]

The basic firearm safety courses give you what you need to get started. Nothing more. It's up to you to get to the range regularly and ideally get more advanced training as your skills progress. One of the biggest mistakes I see people making is purchasing their first gun with the intention of carrying it.

Buy a full size gun that's comfortable to shoot and easy to clean. Learn to shoot with that and then think about what you need in a carry gun.

Excellent post...

[Kenswing]

Concealed weapons class at Shooters World is $75. If you can afford a firearm and ammo you can probably afford the class.

[JMintzer]

And who would run on this campaign? In this state they would LOOSE in a landslide. Unfortunatly it will not change. Already more mass killings (3+people) than days of this year 2-19-23.

"Mass killings" are now 3 people?

Seems they keep changing the definition...

[JMintzer]

There are 25 (maybe 26) states with concealed carry now.

Please list the ones that are like Dodge City or Tombstone.

Take your time. We'll wait.

But we won't hold our breath...

Like I previously said, "The Wild West" was a figment of the imagination of dime store novelists and Hollywood...

[JMintzer]

While The Villages has an extremely low crime rate, Florida—including some of the surrounding towns—has a very high rate of violent crimes, one of the highest in the country. I’ve never seen a Villager carrying either open or concealed, but I know a very large percentage of Villagers have guns. If more of them started carrying them, I would feel a bit nervous, but it wouldn’t scare me.

Incorrect. Florida ranks right in the middle (21 out of 50) nationwide...

My home state of MD ranks 11th (mostly due to Baltimore and the DC suburbs). Michigan is 13th. CA ranks 14th. Illinois, 19th.

Crime in the US: All 50 states ranked by murder, violent crime rates (https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2020/01/13/most-dangerous-states-in-america-violent-crime-murder-rate/40968963/)

And of course you've never seen a Villager carrying concealed. That's because the gun is "concealed"...

Oh, and "Open Carry" is not legal in FL. Nor will it be legal with constitutional carry...

However, arresting people for illegal concealed carrying of firearms is one of the major ways that law enforcement officers get the Criminal Element off the streets and into prison where they belong, at least for a day or two. There are certainly parts of Florida that will have more gun-carrying criminals on the street if this were passed, and it would be harder to get them off the street. If they want to shoot each other, I don’t care, good riddance, but I don’t want them shooting at the rest of us.

Please explain how passing this law would cause more gun carrying criminals to be on the street and how it would be harder to get gun-carrying criminals off the street. If they are prohibited from owning a gun, they are prohibited from carrying a gun...

The problem is, once arrested, they are typically released within hours...

[JMintzer]

I will get to Number 10 GI's post in a minute but just wanted to address the OP's statement about the possibility of Constitutional Carry here in FL, specially, in TV. Personally, in my opinion, I don't think it would make much difference here in TV. I have my FL CCW and never carry while here in TV and only carry when I plan to travel beyond "the bubble". I feel very safe here and have the opinion that there are others, like myself who have made the decision to leave their weapon locked up at home. Again, just my opinion. I always carry pepper spray and a knife with me 100% of the time.
I just wonder about the folks from states like NY where carrying (or ever owning) a gun is near to impossible? I wonder if you obtained your FL CCW and enjoy concealed carrying while in TV?
As for the person I quoted above; what you said really resonated with me. I am in my sixties now, I am not as strong as I once was and nor am I as fast on my feet. These days, I read of too many stories of innocent people walking the street and are robbed of their belongings and then beaten senseless often times left in a coma barely hanging on to life. I don't want that to happen to me (or anyone)! I hope that makes sense to most of you? I try to train as often as I can, usually a class every two years. I also read a lot of articles about justified shoots and questionable ones. I am supporter of the 2nd Amendment and in the same breath, I hope I never have to shoot someone.
I could go on but just want to end up with this final thought; there's a lot of murders/killings taking place all over the US and "yes", a majority of them take place in big cities, and "yes", often times a bullet is used, but not always. I think it's time to just agree that there is a lot of violence in American Culture, for whatever reason. Does it matter if someone is killed by a bullet, a knife, baseball bat, pipe, cars, trucks, bombs etc but there's always more focus when the bullet is used. What about all the serial killers who abduct men, woman and/or children and torture and abuse them till death? My point is, there's a lot of "people" out there who are not right in the head (for lack of a better word). For me, I carry because I refuse to be a victim. I carry to protect myself, my family, and friends.

:bigbow::bigbow::bigbow:

[JMintzer]

One interesting thing might be a quick draw contest set up by age range like 50 to 60 and etc. Not sure how the details would go in order to have complete safety.

Why? "Quick Draw" by it's very nature is not safer than a regular draw. Why add risk?

Just to "show off"?

[JMintzer]

I definitely agree. I seem to remember the days before about 1970 when the NRA was a TRUE hunting magazine. Today the NRA is like a "soldiers of fortune" rabid militant organization. I stopped my membership when their magazine and emphasis became on MAN-KILLING weapons. I ALWAYS would shoot at a target with a BULLSEYE - I NEVER shot at a target with some nasty looking dude on it.........that is JUST SICK !!!!!!

What an interesting point of view... I'm surprised you never posted it before...

Oh, and could you explain what the NRA has to do with targets with "some nasty looking dude" on it?

NRA approved classes use standard Bulls-Eye targets like this:

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71fIIfLPgRL._AC_UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg

The closest thing you'll see to "some nasty looking dude" is this:

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/Y1wAAOSwVXRb7v1P/s-l500.jpg

[JMintzer]

One of the ,most fundamental aspects of gun safety is control of the firearm, including placing it under lock and key when not being used. Responsible owners do not store them in the nightstand or under the carseat when children are around. Child-related firearm events are very, very rare, probably much less than children dying from ingesting carelessly stored narcotics, setting fires from available matches, or pouring kettles of steaming water on themselves, but they do get much more press. There is no such "open season". Respectfully, your argument might make more sense if not for the bellicose emotion.

Many more children die from swimming pools...

[JMintzer]

This is insanity. Anyone who agrees to this is asking for trouble.

Well, that's certainly an opinion...

[JMintzer]

Because when the NRA or political parties have a convention, they rent the facility where the event is to be held. The owner of the facility is the one that bans firearms, not the renters. In some instances it a city or county law that bans firearms in those buildings.

Exactly...

I wish I had posted than... Oh, wait... :p:beer3:

[JRcorvette]

I support Constitutional Carry 100% however I also believe that an individual should have to attend classroom course and understand the Laws. Many people in TV who have a carry permit and carry on occasion are not proficient at shooting and are no really up on the laws. They have not idea what a nightmare they will be in if they shoot someone or even just pull a gun out on someone. This is serious stuff… but everyone has the right to defend themselves and their family and to carry some protection if they choose to. I hope the law will Pass unambiguously!

[JMintzer]

I would rather the gun manufacturers could only sell (by law) SINGLE-SHOT rifles, pistols, and shotguns to the PUBLIC. The military would have the automatics. And this would NOT be a problem because the ordinary citizens with the SINGLE-SHOT weapons would be able to outnumber the military so that just the repeater or non-repeater would NOT make any difference. Now the military would deploy tanks, but ordinary people could just hide their SINGLE-SHOT weapons and blend in with all the other people. The military could NOT just shoot every non-military person.
.........I state this because the people that would be against SINGLE-SHOTS would argue (incorrectly) that single-shot weapons would ENCOURAGE a military take over........I don't think so!
........This may seem RADICAL to some gun owners, but the NRA has been PREACHING for 50 years that, "It takes a GOOD guy with a GUN to neutralize a BAD guy with a GUN". Well by NOW the NRA should be made to "put-up or shut-up". Obviously, they just have that slogan to SELL MORE GUNS..........because gun violence in the US is about 20 times greater than in European countries. And it IS increasing and shows ZERO signs of stopping.
.........So, my solution MAY seem RADICAL, but at least, it IS a SOLUTION.
..........And banning military-style weapons will do ZERO because ANY semi-auto can be "accessorized" like Barby doll. So, the ONLY solution is to BAN semi-auto CIVILIAN purchases and do what I suggest or do NOTHING.......like for the last 50 years
..........Remember, Australia banned semi-auto rifles and their mass-murders went to nearly ZERO. And yes, my solution IS even more RADICAL than Australia's. But, US citizens are DYING from semi-auto guns and they will be dying at a greater RATE in the future.

The NRA does not sell guns...

The FBI and the CDC have stated that "the good guy with a gun" stops a crime (in most cases, never firing said gun) between 400,000-2.5 MILLION times per year...

Sound to me like they "put up"...

Australia's "Mass Murders" were "nearly zero" BEFORE they instituted their ban...

You do realize that this "semi-auto" handgun technology has been around for over 110 years, don't you?

I can only surmise you would also ban "revolvers" which have been around for over 150 years...

Allow me to retort... No way, no how, not a chance...

[JMintzer]

Unfortunately even though we have him blocked, every time someone quotes him we still have to see his nonsense.

You're welcome... Or, I'm sorry... Whichever applies.... :icon_wink:

[JMintzer]

Concealed weapons class at Shooters World is $75. If you can afford a firearm and ammo you can probably afford the class.

What does FL charge these days for the license? I haven't renewed my license in a while...

[JMintzer]

I support Constitutional Carry 100% however I also believe that an individual should have to attend classroom course and understand the Laws. Many people in TV who have a carry permit and carry on occasion are not proficient at shooting and are no really up on the laws. They have not idea what a nightmare they will be in if they shoot someone or even just pull a gun out on someone. This is serious stuff… but everyone has the right to defend themselves and their family and to carry some protection if they choose to. I hope the law will Pass unambiguously!

Many?

[Hardlyworking]

Many people in TV have driver’s licenses and I’d guess a fair amount of those can’t drive worth a darn.

[Boston-Sean]

The problem is, once arrested, they are typically released within hours...

Probably 20 years ago the Sheriff of Bristol County in Massachusetts (New Bedford area) instituted a policy of holding anyone who was arrested with a firearm on no bail until a separate hearing could be held to determine if the Perp was a "danger to the community".

The result. Shootings and gun crimes were dramatically reduced. A success story, right?

Not exactly. The usual suspects got involved and sued to stop the policy because ... wait for it ... racism.

No more of that policy. Gun crimes/shootings went back to "normal".

[JMintzer]

Many people in TV have driver’s licenses and I’d guess a fair amount of those can’t drive worth a darn.

Leave out the "in TV" part and I'd agree! ;)

[Hardlyworking]

Leave out the "in TV" part and I'd agree! ;)

That’s true.

[jimjamuser]

Anyone who has the dude blocked is missing out on some funny stuff.
Thank you for your eloquent and RINGING endorsement. I may work on a comedy routine now thanks to your encouragement. OK audience did you hear the one about the SPACE CADET that wanted to be stationed in the Midwest.......You-all have been a g-r-e-a-t audience......see you later Florida Agitators.

[jimjamuser]

Unfortunately even though we have him blocked, every time someone quotes him we still have to see his nonsense.
Believe me, I have seen a lot of nonsense flowing on these pages. And much worse than nonsense. Some people think that to LOSE something is spelled loose. I must have seen that 10 times. And the funny thing is that I myself am a bad spealler.

[jimjamuser]

I support Constitutional Carry 100% however I also believe that an individual should have to attend classroom course and understand the Laws. Many people in TV who have a carry permit and carry on occasion are not proficient at shooting and are no really up on the laws. They have not idea what a nightmare they will be in if they shoot someone or even just pull a gun out on someone. This is serious stuff… but everyone has the right to defend themselves and their family and to carry some protection if they choose to. I hope the law will Pass unambiguously!
Florida could easily be a state that has gone backward in modern progressive ideas because of the average older age of its residents. This is thanks mainly to the inability to mentally resist and recognize PROPAGANDA that is rolling in on their chosen TV channel from m - f from 8 - 11 PM. Florida has PROBLEMS getting top-rated corporations to locate in Fl because the upper management types do NOT want their children raised in such a BACKWARD environment. Yes, the U. of Florida is a top-rated University, but primary and secondary Florida schools have a bad reputation. And Yes, I know that the Villages Charter School sends a lot of students to College, but a lot of that has to do with the average income of their families - and it is an anomaly in Florida.

[jrzeis@tampabay.rr.com]

Why do so many people assume that if you decided to carry a gun it instantly makes you a mass murderer in waiting? Also, last time I checked, murder is against the law and convicted felons are not allowed to own a gun but many so anyways. Explain to me how passing new laws are suddenly going to stop criminals from breaking the new law or better yet tell me how that new law is going to start making criminals follow the new law since they don't really care about the existing laws? Do you really think telling someone that they are not allowed to murder someone is going to stop them, and do you really think they are going to be unable to obtain a forearm? It is already against the law so tell me how you are changing anything.

[jimjamuser]

Why do so many people assume that if you decided to carry a gun it instantly makes you a mass murderer in waiting? Also, last time I checked, murder is against the law and convicted felons are not allowed to own a gun but many so anyways. Explain to me how passing new laws are suddenly going to stop criminals from breaking the new law or better yet tell me how that new law is going to start making criminals follow the new law since they don't really care about the existing laws? Do you really think telling someone that they are not allowed to murder someone is going to stop them, and do you really think they are going to be unable to obtain a forearm? It is already against the law so tell me how you are changing anything.
In many countries in Europe, and New Zealand, Australia, and Japan it is NOT nearly as easy to get hold of a gun as it is in the US. By the time they get hold of a gun, they may have had 2nd thoughts and no longer want to murder someone or commit suicide. Also, it IS harder to commit suicide WITHOUT a gun - like say by using a knife or jumping from a tall building. Easily accessible guns in the US make it easy for people to commit murder or suicide.

[JMintzer]

Florida could easily be a state that has gone backward in modern progressive ideas because of the average older age of its residents. This is thanks mainly to the inability to mentally resist and recognize PROPAGANDA that is rolling in on their chosen TV channel from m - f from 8 - 11 PM. Florida has PROBLEMS getting top-rated corporations to locate in Fl because the upper management types do NOT want their children raised in such a BACKWARD environment. Yes, the U. of Florida is a top-rated University, but primary and secondary Florida schools have a bad reputation. And Yes, I know that the Villages Charter School sends a lot of students to College, but a lot of that has to do with the average income of their families - and it is an anomaly in Florida.

Sigh... It's just sooo easy to check the actual facts before posting...

Why Are So Many Companies Moving to Florida? | Business.com (https://www.business.com/articles/why-companies-are-moving-to-florida/)

2022 saw more California businesses relocate to Florida | Florida | thecentersquare.com (https://www.thecentersquare.com/florida/2022-saw-more-california-businesses-relocate-to-florida/article_558e2f38-8860-11ed-86f2-93cafb51cf43.html)

4 Reasons Why Businesses are Flocking to Florida | Buchanan Ingersoll & Rooney PC (https://www.bipc.com/4-reasons-why-businesses-are-flocking-to-florida)

They specifically mention the younger population moving here for employment, the GOOD schools...

[JMintzer]

In many countries in Europe, and New Zealand, Australia, and Japan it is NOT nearly as easy to get hold of a gun as it is in the US. By the time they get hold of a gun, they may have had 2nd thoughts and no longer want to murder someone or commit suicide. Also, it IS harder to commit suicide WITHOUT a gun - like say by using a knife or jumping from a tall building. Easily accessible guns in the US make it easy for people to commit murder or suicide.

Then why does Japan have MORE suicides than the US despite having very limited access to guns and about 1/3 the population?

"The total number of deaths from suicide was 31,413 (22,402 males and 9,011 females) in Japan and 29,180 (23,443 males and 5,737 females) in the United States."

"The most common method among both genders in Japan was hanging, followed by jumping from a high place. In the United States, it was firearms among both genders, followed by hanging among males and drugs among females."

Comparative Study about Methods of Suicide between Japan and the United States - PMC (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8784240/#:~:text=The%20total%20number%20of%20deaths,female s)%20in%20the%20United%20States).

[Number 10 GI]

The NRA was not founded as a hunting organization and has never been focused on hunting. Here is an explanation of why the organization was founded.

A Brief History of the NRA | National Rifle Association (https://home.nra.org/about-the-nra/)

[JMintzer]

The NRA was not founded as a hunting organization and has never been focused on hunting. Here is an explanation of why the organization was founded.

A Brief History of the NRA | National Rifle Association (https://home.nra.org/about-the-nra/)

Those pesky facts again...

[Villages Kahuna]

The Florida legislature is even now considering "constitutional carry" (House Bill 543, Companion Senate Bill 150) for the state of Florida. Briefly stated, constitutional carry would allow any Floridian of legal age and not otherwise forbidden to own a firearm, to carry one in public without having to obtain a permit to do so. The current permitting system would remain in effect however for those who wish to access it, most probably because of reciprocity agreements between Florida and other states.

What many people don't realize is how common constitutional carry is in America. Fully half the states already allow it. Besides Florida, the states of Nebraska, South Carolina, and New Mexico are also considering going that route as well.

I confess to being of two minds on the issue. After all, it is called "Constitutional carry" for a reason. But merely OWNING a gun does not guarantee that the owner will be able to USE it in a lawful and safe manner. The current system in Florida does provide a way to assure that a permit holder has demonstrated at least a minimum knowledge of the law as well as showing he/she has basic skills in how to use a firearm in a self-defense situation.

Is this something we want to see come to The Villages?

At least it has the “legal age” terminology. A similar law passed recently in Missouri would permit a pre-schooler or kindergartener to openly carry ANY kind of firearm into their schools and classrooms.

[Cybersprings]

[QUOTE=jimjamuser;2188870]Sorry, but that is a little like the chicken and the egg controversy.......WHICH one came FIRST? MAYBE NOW, today people may feel a NEED to carry a gun, but it happened AFTER the NRA captured the US government to produce giant PROFITS for the Gun industry OWNERS. And the "LITTLE PEOPLE" suffered the consequences.
........If one remembers back to between WW2 and 1960 the NRA was a HUNTING organization not A HUNTING HUMANS and killing humans organization. AND my Grandfather and father had HUNTING animals-type guns NOT semi-auto 30-round magazine, human-killing $3,000 military-style weapons of WAR ! And you-all will remember that MURDERS were few and far between back then. And the demented MASS-murder scene of TODAY did NOT even exist.
.........Which came 1st the MAN killings or the MAN killing weapons? I KNOW that I know![/

Sometimes I wonder if the TOTV should provide some sort of test before allowing folks to post

[ThirdOfFive]

Believe me, I have seen a lot of nonsense flowing on these pages. And much worse than nonsense. Some people think that to LOSE something is spelled loose. I must have seen that 10 times. And the funny thing is that I myself am a bad spealler.
Sorta like the definition of "cult". A "cult" is what the OTHER guy believes in! So too with nonsense: it all depends on what side of the fence you're standing on. One guy's nonsense might be another guy's gospel.

For myself I always give more attention and credence to arguments and points backed up by verifiable facts. Anyone can spout emotionally-charged buzzwords and quote "facts" that "everybody knows". That is not to say that someone does NOT have the right to express emotional opinions. Just don't expect such opinions to be held in the same esteem as those based on facts and logic.

[Causey]

"Constitutional Carry" is our guarantee that our rights are preserved for each and every American. The 2nd Amendment reads "shall not be infringed". It does not say anything about others rights being violated because someone is not comfortable with such a right.

[Fltpkr]

No. Happy hour and 9mm semi-autos - the perfect combination!

[Hardlyworking]

No. Happy hour and 9mm semi-autos - the perfect combination!

That would be illegal. You cannot carry a gun into a bar.

[ThirdOfFive]

"Constitutional Carry" is our guarantee that our rights are preserved for each and every American. The 2nd Amendment reads "shall not be infringed". It does not say anything about others rights being violated because someone is not comfortable with such a right.
Agree.

However it comes with a caveat. No right, no matter how inalienable, can be exercised absent the duty to exercise it responsibly. The right of free speech does not give one the right to yell "fire!" in a crowded theater, for example. I agree that the right to keep and bear arms is inalienable, however if I start shooting rounds into the air, even in my own front yard, I have no reason NOT to expect that a deputy or five would not show up within a matter of minutes to explain to me the error of my ways.

It is not unreasonable to expect that someone exercising their right to keep and bear arms both know how to use their firearm in a safe and responsible manner, as well as to have a knowledge of the laws pertaining to its use.

[JMintzer]

No. Happy hour and 9mm semi-autos - the perfect combination!

No difference than before Constitutional Carry, with a permit.

It is illegal to carry while impaired. Just like driving...

[Lindsyburnsy]

Except very consolidated into a very small area.

[JMintzer]

Except very consolidated into a very small area.

Huh? You think it's only TV where it will be allowed?

[nn0wheremann]

Is constitutional carry concealed carry, or open carry, for, as the song says, “all the honest world to see”?

[dewilson58]

It is illegal to carry while impaired. Just like driving...

& no carrying in a bar............drinking or not.

[ThirdOfFive]

Is constitutional carry concealed carry, or open carry, for, as the song says, “all the honest world to see”?
Depends on the state, I would think.

But here in Florida, according to an article in the Tallahassee Democrat, January 20, 2023: "Under permitless carry legislation, a person who legally owns a firearm may carry it in public, visibly or concealed, at almost any time or place, without training, registration or government licensing. Simple as that."

[daniel200]

As of Jan 31, Concealed weapon permits in the counties that include the Villages

Lake Co … 64,469
Marion Co … 56542
Sumter Co … 13875

[JMintzer]

Is constitutional carry concealed carry, or open carry, for, as the song says, “all the honest world to see”?

Concealed (at least in FL...)

Florida Constitutional Carry: House Speaker announces legislation allowing concealed guns without permits | WFLA (https://www.wfla.com/news/politics/florida-constitutional-carry-house-speaker-announces-legislation-allowing-concealed-guns-without-permits/#/questions)

[fdpaq0580]

& no carrying in a bar............drinking or not.

Where is the fun in that? As a kid watching old western movies, I used to imagine stomping into a saloon with a big iron strapped to my hip, lean on the bar, and in a deep and gravelly voice say," gimme a shot of redeye, Jasper".

[jimjamuser]

The NRA was not founded as a hunting organization and has never been focused on hunting. Here is an explanation of why the organization was founded.

A Brief History of the NRA | National Rifle Association (https://home.nra.org/about-the-nra/)
Sorry, but I PERSONALLY know for a fact that from after WW2 to about 1970 all the articles in the NRAs magazine (and Outdoor Life, to which I had about 15 years worth of subscriptions to )( and Field and Stream magazine) were EXCLUSIVELY about HUNTING not hunting humans and paintball BS. I had ZERO interest in Soldier of Fortune type TRASH magazines - I was strictly interested in fishing and bird and small and big game HUNTING.
........Then about 1970 for some reason young (stupid) MEN stopped NORMAL old-school hunting and started doing BS things like PLAY hunting each other with PAINTBALL toys.
..........The GUN MAKERS got twerped-out and PANICKED about profits FALLING. So they found some way to PROPAGANDIZE the newer generation into BUYING real guns not TOY paintball guns. Their method was to change the emphasis in the HUNTING magazines INTO jerk-type Soldier of Fortune-type magazines and push their VERY EXPENSIVE military-style rifles with silencers, front vibrating dampeners, military optics, semi-auto, BIG, BIG, stupid USELESS magazine-type ADULT TOY GUNS. What a joke .........big men have big magazines - sounds and looks like a phallic symbol to boost their SAGGING LABIDOES.
.........Another humorous thing about Paintball game participants........our generation played TAG and relieveo when we were KIDS. The paintball thing is like ADULTS (supposedly grown MEN) playing a stupid version of TAG OR TAB. And they pay BIG money for their PAINT GUNS and they waste TIME doing it and probably AFTERWARD go get some beers and tell each other what BRAVE SOLDIERS they are. What do I expect from a generation raised on JOHN WAYNE movies and Clint Eastwood.........The Good the Bad and the PAINTBALL ugly !!!!!!

[JMintzer]

Sorry, but I PERSONALLY know for a fact that from after WW2 to about 1970 all the articles in the NRAs magazine (and Outdoor Life, to which I had about 15 years worth of subscriptions to )( and Field and Stream magazine) were EXCLUSIVELY about HUNTING not hunting humans and paintball BS. I had ZERO interest in Soldier of Fortune type TRASH magazines - I was strictly interested in fishing and bird and small and big game HUNTING.
........Then about 1970 for some reason young (stupid) MEN stopped NORMAL old-school hunting and started doing BS things like PLAY hunting each other with PAINTBALL toys.
..........The GUN MAKERS got twerped-out and PANICKED about profits FALLING. So they found some way to PROPAGANDIZE the newer generation into BUYING real guns not TOY paintball guns. Their method was to change the emphasis in the HUNTING magazines INTO jerk-type Soldier of Fortune-type magazines and push their VERY EXPENSIVE military-style rifles with silencers, front vibrating dampeners, military optics, semi-auto, BIG, BIG, stupid USELESS magazine-type ADULT TOY GUNS. What a joke .........big men have big magazines - sounds and looks like a phallic symbol to boost their SAGGING LABIDOES.
.........Another humorous thing about Paintball game participants........our generation played TAG and relieveo when we were KIDS. The paintball thing is like ADULTS (supposedly grown MEN) playing a stupid version of TAG OR TAB. And they pay BIG money for their PAINT GUNS and they waste TIME doing it and probably AFTERWARD go get some beers and tell each other what BRAVE SOLDIERS they are. What do I expect from a generation raised on JOHN WAYNE movies and Clint Eastwood.........The Good the Bad and the PAINTBALL ugly !!!!!!

I can't remember seeing a SINGLE article in an NRA publication regarding paintball. Not one...

The NRA has nothing to do with "Soldier of Fortune" magazine...

And for a guy who mocks people for using "Loose" when they mean "Lose", one would think you'd be able to look up the word "Libido...

P.S. No one makes a "Silencer" for a gun... You watch too many movies (must be where you get you information about firearms...)

[jimjamuser]

[QUOTE=jimjamuser;2188870]Sorry, but that is a little like the chicken and the egg controversy.......WHICH one came FIRST? MAYBE NOW, today people may feel a NEED to carry a gun, but it happened AFTER the NRA captured the US government to produce giant PROFITS for the Gun industry OWNERS. And the "LITTLE PEOPLE" suffered the consequences.
........If one remembers back to between WW2 and 1960 the NRA was a HUNTING organization not A HUNTING HUMANS and killing humans organization. AND my Grandfather and father had HUNTING animals-type guns NOT semi-auto 30-round magazine, human-killing $3,000 military-style weapons of WAR ! And you-all will remember that MURDERS were few and far between back then. And the demented MASS-murder scene of TODAY did NOT even exist.
.........Which came 1st the MAN killings or the MAN killing weapons? I KNOW that I know![/

Sometimes I wonder if the TOTV should provide some sort of test before allowing folks to post
From the sound of it that PREFERRED test would be one that passes people that think a certain way. And would exclude ALL others that think the OPPOSITE way.
........For example, say that most people in Bubble Land would vote for (so-called)(which I would call DESTRUCTIVE to general and local SOCIETY and promoting VIOLENCE) Constitutional carry. Then, those who say, "NO, NO, that is a TERRIBLE idea" would have to be SILENCED.
..........It is my hope that people can see what this is - namely a 1st step toward a Fascist State. !st arm as many people as possible, then rile them up with violent oratory, and then have them attack some physical area, and then declare martial law. And BINGO the US gets a government like in Russia and China.
...........They say that a Country's people GET the government they DESERVE, so EVERYONE carry those MILITARY-STYLE guns and have "Constitutional carry" and watch your Country descend into violence and Fascism. Enjoy......I hope that I am NOT too old to make it to Canada.

[jimjamuser]

Depends on the state, I would think.

But here in Florida, according to an article in the Tallahassee Democrat, January 20, 2023: "Under permitless carry legislation, a person who legally owns a firearm may carry it in public, visibly or concealed, at almost any time or place, without training, registration or government licensing. Simple as that."
As worded - that means that Fl becomes the wild west where MIGHT makes RIGHT and to FEAR the quick-tempered individual with the FASTEST DRAW.
.........What a beautiful FUTURE this PORTENDS !

[ckcapaul]

Sorry, but I PERSONALLY know for a fact that from after WW2 to about 1970 all the articles in the NRAs magazine (and Outdoor Life, to which I had about 15 years worth of subscriptions to )( and Field and Stream magazine) were EXCLUSIVELY about HUNTING not hunting humans and paintball BS. I had ZERO interest in Soldier of Fortune type TRASH magazines - I was strictly interested in fishing and bird and small and big game HUNTING.
........Then about 1970 for some reason young (stupid) MEN stopped NORMAL old-school hunting and started doing BS things like PLAY hunting each other with PAINTBALL toys.
..........The GUN MAKERS got twerped-out and PANICKED about profits FALLING. So they found some way to PROPAGANDIZE the newer generation into BUYING real guns not TOY paintball guns. Their method was to change the emphasis in the HUNTING magazines INTO jerk-type Soldier of Fortune-type magazines and push their VERY EXPENSIVE military-style rifles with silencers, front vibrating dampeners, military optics, semi-auto, BIG, BIG, stupid USELESS magazine-type ADULT TOY GUNS. What a joke .........big men have big magazines - sounds and looks like a phallic symbol to boost their SAGGING LABIDOES.
.........Another humorous thing about Paintball game participants........our generation played TAG and relieveo when we were KIDS. The paintball thing is like ADULTS (supposedly grown MEN) playing a stupid version of TAG OR TAB. And they pay BIG money for their PAINT GUNS and they waste TIME doing it and probably AFTERWARD go get some beers and tell each other what BRAVE SOLDIERS they are. What do I expect from a generation raised on JOHN WAYNE movies and Clint Eastwood.........The Good the Bad and the PAINTBALL ugly !!!!!!

Pesky Facts Paintball
The game was invented in May 1981 in New Hampshire by Hayes Noel, a Wall Street stock trader, and Charles Gaines, an outdoorsman and writer

[fishon]

Sheriff Grady Judd

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UP1tOCtHo0

[snbrafford]

The Florida legislature is even now considering "constitutional carry" (House Bill 543, Companion Senate Bill 150) for the state of Florida. Briefly stated, constitutional carry would allow any Floridian of legal age and not otherwise forbidden to own a firearm, to carry one in public without having to obtain a permit to do so. The current permitting system would remain in effect however for those who wish to access it, most probably because of reciprocity agreements between Florida and other states.

What many people don't realize is how common constitutional carry is in America. Fully half the states already allow it. Besides Florida, the states of Nebraska, South Carolina, and New Mexico are also considering going that route as well.

I confess to being of two minds on the issue. After all, it is called "Constitutional carry" for a reason. But merely OWNING a gun does not guarantee that the owner will be able to USE it in a lawful and safe manner. The current system in Florida does provide a way to assure that a permit holder has demonstrated at least a minimum knowledge of the law as well as showing he/she has basic skills in how to use a firearm in a self-defense situation.

Is this something we want to see come to The Villages?

It's a sad state of affairs in this country when more people want to carry a gun for their own safety. I sometimes feel that way too when you hear of shooting just about anywhere - even when just out shopping you might be in the wrong place at the wrong time. However, I do agree that we should use existing carry permitting to ensure some kind of fire arm ability.

[PugMom]

As of Jan 31, Concealed weapon permits in the counties that include the Villages

Lake Co … 64,469
Marion Co … 56542
Sumter Co … 13875

& one of the safest places to live :beer3:

[ThirdOfFive]

As worded - that means that Fl becomes the wild west where MIGHT makes RIGHT and to FEAR the quick-tempered individual with the FASTEST DRAW.
.........What a beautiful FUTURE this PORTENDS !
History would indicate otherwise.

In Minnesota, it has been "open carry" since the inception of permits to carry. Some carried openly. I never did; the only person who needed to know I was carrying was me. Others were not as circumspect: I recall rallies at the State Capitol where people rode in the backs of pickups in a motorcade ringing the capital building and grounds, brandishing AR-15s for all to see, and open carry at 2nd Amendment rallies was just how it was done. But it was never "wild west"--even though that was the precise same rhetoric that the alarmists employed back in 2003 when permit-to-carry went into effect up there.

The bad guys don't care. They'll carry wherever and whenever; they're outside the law anyway. But people who are exercising a freedom just don't seem to do so irresponsibly, in Minnesota or, I'm pretty sure, in Florida either. Respect for law, among the law-abiding, goes deeper than that.

[jimjamuser]

History would indicate otherwise.

In Minnesota, it has been "open carry" since the inception of permits to carry. Some carried openly. I never did; the only person who needed to know I was carrying was me. Others were not as circumspect: I recall rallies at the State Capitol where people rode in the backs of pickups in a motorcade ringing the capital building and grounds, brandishing AR-15s for all to see, and open carry at 2nd Amendment rallies was just how it was done. But it was never "wild west"--even though that was the precise same rhetoric that the alarmists employed back in 2003 when permit-to-carry went into effect up there.

The bad guys don't care. They'll carry wherever and whenever; they're outside the law anyway. But people who are exercising a freedom just don't seem to do so irresponsibly, in Minnesota or, I'm pretty sure, in Florida either. Respect for law, among the law-abiding, goes deeper than that.
There are 2 divergent sentences in that post. " Never the wild, west". And then right before that, "brandishing a AR 15. If someone IS BRANDISHING a weapon then practically by definition, they are trying to intimidate another human being. That IS just WRONG to me and at the same level as a stupid BULLY in 6th grade.
..........And the TV has shown plenty of these low-life, low-IQ types in both Wisconsin and Minnesota. And in one of those states they planned to CAPTURE their lady Governor. Were they JUST going to brandish her?

[Number 10 GI]

And the TV has shown plenty of these low-life, low-IQ types in both Wisconsin and Minnesota. And in one of those states they planned to CAPTURE their lady Governor. Were they JUST going to brandish her?

That was Michigan. Get your facts straight!

[Boston-Sean]

Just wait for this to come to TV. Sounds like everyone should be carrying. Maybe get a gun rack installed on your golf cart.

Police: Armed Golf Cart Driver Kidnaps Philadelphia Woman (https://www.breitbart.com/crime/2023/02/20/police-armed-golf-cart-driver-kidnaps-philadelphia-woman/)

[Byte1]

What does FL charge these days for the license? I haven't renewed my license in a while...

Funny, I can't even remember how much the renewal fee was. I did it on line and I think it was $45. Pretty easy.

[Gpsma]

Just wait for this to come to TV. Sounds like everyone should be carrying. Maybe get a gun rack installed on your golf cart.

Police: Armed Golf Cart Driver Kidnaps Philadelphia Woman (https://www.breitbart.com/crime/2023/02/20/police-armed-golf-cart-driver-kidnaps-philadelphia-woman/)

Im goimg oit golfing tommorow with my 9mm handgun.with three spare mags.
If i see anyone there without a collared shirt, ill turn that golf course into the Old West

[Hardlyworking]

Funny, I can't even remember how much the renewal fee was. I did it on line and I think it was $45. Pretty easy.

Yep, $45 to renew. If your license expired more than 6 months ago you have to apply for a new license.

[jimjamuser]

That was Michigan. Get your facts straight!
Michigan, Minnesota, Wisconsin.......they are all the same, same. And the point I made was about the lady Governor that some residents of some NORTH Central American state were trying to kidnap and maybe do SERIOUS VIOLENCE to her. Basically, everyone knew what I meant and I did NOT want to WASTE my time and look it up exactly. I am NOT a newspaper editor that gets paid $150,000 per year. I get paid MUCH less so EXPECT me to NOT look up everything I write about so that it is PERFECT and NEVER without criticism or error.
Old Proverb - Let he (she, it) that has achieved divine PERFECTION cast the 1st slings and arrows of childish CORRECTION.

[jimjamuser]

Just wait for this to come to TV. Sounds like everyone should be carrying. Maybe get a gun rack installed on your golf cart.

Police: Armed Golf Cart Driver Kidnaps Philadelphia Woman (https://www.breitbart.com/crime/2023/02/20/police-armed-golf-cart-driver-kidnaps-philadelphia-woman/)
That IS funny, but at the same time.........it isn't funny. Lot's of older, marginally cool-headed people here in Bubble-Land. You throw in excessive drinking and arguments at the Squares at night and you have a pretty combustible mix. And you have fewer Police than needed and maybe the Police on bicycles are gone? Which was a GOOD idea.
........I for ONE do NOT want to see this Constitutional violence intensifier pass. And probably the whole idea ought to be voted on in a referendum-style question in the next election.

[JMintzer]

From the sound of it that PREFERRED test would be one that passes people that think a certain way. And would exclude ALL others that think the OPPOSITE way.
........For example, say that most people in Bubble Land would vote for (so-called)(which I would call DESTRUCTIVE to general and local SOCIETY and promoting VIOLENCE) Constitutional carry. Then, those who say, "NO, NO, that is a TERRIBLE idea" would have to be SILENCED.
..........It is my hope that people can see what this is - namely a 1st step toward a Fascist State. !st arm as many people as possible, then rile them up with violent oratory, and then have them attack some physical area, and then declare martial law. And BINGO the US gets a government like in Russia and China.
...........They say that a Country's people GET the government they DESERVE, so EVERYONE carry those MILITARY-STYLE guns and have "Constitutional carry" and watch your Country descend into violence and Fascism. Enjoy......I hope that I am NOT too old to make it to Canada.

"MILITARY-STYLE guns..."

https://img.ifunny.co/images/c4f07df4658744c2ddbd76d72a8133024e30c1b6bbca189ed8 258f82da65b95e_1.jpg

[JMintzer]

As worded - that means that Fl becomes the wild west where MIGHT makes RIGHT and to FEAR the quick-tempered individual with the FASTEST DRAW.
.........What a beautiful FUTURE this PORTENDS !

"The Wild West"... IT NEVER HAPPENED!

[JMintzer]

Pesky Facts Paintball
The game was invented in May 1981 in New Hampshire by Hayes Noel, a Wall Street stock trader, and Charles Gaines, an outdoorsman and writer

Don't bother... Facts don't matter...

[JMintzer]

That was Michigan. Get your facts straight!

"Facts"? We don't need no stinkin' facts!

[CFrance]

..........And the TV has shown plenty of these low-life, low-IQ types in both Wisconsin and Minnesota. And in one of those states they planned to CAPTURE their lady Governor. Were they JUST going to brandish her? (clipped)


Credibility lost on that one...

[ThirdOfFive]

There are 2 divergent sentences in that post. " Never the wild, west". And then right before that, "brandishing a AR 15. If someone IS BRANDISHING a weapon then practically by definition, they are trying to intimidate another human being. That IS just WRONG to me and at the same level as a stupid BULLY in 6th grade.
..........And the TV has shown plenty of these low-life, low-IQ types in both Wisconsin and Minnesota. And in one of those states they planned to CAPTURE their lady Governor. Were they JUST going to brandish her?
That was not Minnesota, but Michigan. Minnesota is ruled by a retired Master Sergeant/History teacher with delusions of adequacy.

Somewhat dangerous ground however, attempting to compare intelligence levels with gun ownership. Any correlation one could make would be completely subjective; and could possibly be seen as an attempt by the person making such a correlation to justify a certain mindset about guns and gun ownership when all other attempts at making a logical argument one way or the other have failed.

[TrapX]

However it comes with a caveat. No right, no matter how inalienable, can be exercised absent the duty to exercise it responsibly. The right of free speech does not give one the right to yell "fire!" in a crowded theater, for example.

You have that wrong.
Your 1st amendment guarantees you have the right to shout "fire" in a theater anytime you want. However, you are responsible for what happens as a result.

Translated to the 2nd amendment, it guarantees you the right to carry a gun anytime you want. However, if you use it to commit a crime, you are responsible for what happens as a result.

There is a huge difference between going to the government to ask for permission to say something, and having the right to do so, whenever you may want.

[ThirdOfFive]

You have that wrong.
Your 1st amendment guarantees you have the right to shout "fire" in a theater anytime you want. However, you are responsible for what happens as a result.

Translated to the 2nd amendment, it guarantees you the right to carry a gun anytime you want. However, if you use it to commit a crime, you are responsible for what happens as a result.

There is a huge difference between going to the government to ask for permission to say something, and having the right to do so, whenever you may want.
I believe that was the original point. Any "right" is a coin with two sides. The other side reads "responsibility".

[jimjamuser]

That was not Minnesota, but Michigan. Minnesota is ruled by a retired Master Sergeant/History teacher with delusions of adequacy.

Somewhat dangerous ground however, attempting to compare intelligence levels with gun ownership. Any correlation one could make would be completely subjective; and could possibly be seen as an attempt by the person making such a correlation to justify a certain mindset about guns and gun ownership when all other attempts at making a logical argument one way or the other have failed.
I have NO problem with gun ownership. I have crawled through cactus needles out west to HUNT Pronghorn Antelope with BOTH a rifle AND a bow. And I "fair chased" the antelope - meaning that I did not sit and WAIT for them to come to a WATERING hole like some sad assassin. So, I earned MY respect on the subject of guns and hunting.
.........I thought I made myself clear that all gun owners are NOT lowlifes, but those creeps with masks and bulletproof vests strutting like roosters with their 30 round magazine semi-autos in other words, NOT a weapon for hunting or DEFENSE (NOT offense) for a home. It is those strutting ROOSTERS with equivalent brains that we see on TV in Arizona, Minnesota, Michigan, Wisconsin and others...........that I find sickening and offensive to my 1950s image of the NRA as a hunting magazine. Just brain-dead soldiers of fortune-want-to-be-s.
.........No, there is legitimate gun ownership and YES, that is my interpretation of the situation. And I know that others may think that those POSERS are wonderful, but I think they just give GUNS and America a BAD name and image to the WORLD.

[Hardlyworking]

Are you including Antifa in those groups to which you are referring?

[Number 10 GI]

"The Wild West"... IT NEVER HAPPENED!

Yes it did! I watched it on the televisions and in the movie theaters.

That was the only place the west was wild.

[Sorrento19]

Soo how long has the Villages been here? When has this happened in the last 50 years here in TV?

[Lindsyburnsy]

How would you stop it from coming to TV? There are thousands of CWFLs in TV now. On any night you could have people carrying at the town Square (25/50) or any place else in TV. It's here.
I might worry slightly less if I knew everybody that owned a firearm was properly trained with a thorough background check and safely stored. That's just a bar too high.

[Byte1]

I might worry slightly less if I knew everybody that owned a firearm was properly trained with a thorough background check and safely stored. That's just a bar too high.

I get your point, and agree with "properly trained." However, that does not make a responsible or sensible person by itself. When I was in Junior High/Middle school we had a gun club sponsored by the school and we brought our rifles in and shot targets. We had NRA instruction/instructors that taught gun safety.
As for your point regarding "safely stored" I concur with that IF/IF your guns are stored, ie. spare guns. If you carry a gun for self defense or keep one in the home for self defense, it is not going to be safely stored. But, I do get your point. I taught my children at a very young age, gun safety and allowed them to shoot my firearms with my supervision. One of my children used to shoot competitively on the weekends, and has a very nice shooting range on the property. One of my children uses an indoor local range and a range sponsored by the state parks. My grandchildren (some of them) hunt during season. There have been no accidents in my family (knock on wood or praise GOD).
The saying has been worn out, but still relevant: "Guns do not kill people, people kill people." Even with a new gun carry law, the federal background check will still be required to purchase a firearm.

[HRDave]

As of 01/31/23, according to the FDAACS Division of Licensing, the number of concealed carry holders in the area of The Villages is:
Sumter County - 13,875
Lake County - 64,469
Marion County - 56,542

Rest Assured Villagers, at any given time there is a large number of concealed carriers in your immediate area.
Still No Wild West Shoot Outs!

[ThirdOfFive]

As of 01/31/23, according to the FDAACS Division of Licensing, the number of concealed carry holders in the area of The Villages is:
Sumter County - 13,875
Lake County - 64,469
Marion County - 56,542

Rest Assured Villagers, at any given time there is a large number of concealed carriers in your immediate area.
Still No Wild West Shoot Outs!
Gotta wonder if those permit numbers in Sumter, Lake and Marion Counties is an accurate representation of the number of people here who actually carry. Florida has reciprocity agreements with a lot of states and if you have a valid permit from one of those states you can legally carry in Florida.

At any rate it looks as if Constitutional Carry in Florida is on track to become law. As I understand it the House Judiciary Committee approved the bill 17-6 and it now goes to the full House for floor discussion. The Governor as I understand it has already indicated that it will get his signature if the Legislature approves it.

[Hardlyworking]

I had a carry permit in TN. I didn’t carry a gun everywhere I went, only to certain places. I doubt I will carry anywhere in TV but going outside, I will definitely carry one. After I took the class and passed both the classroom part and the qualifying, I paid the instructor for additional lessons on shooting in different situations and also situational awareness. The latter will sometimes help you more than having a gun.

Carrying a gun is a pain in the arse. There is no real comfortable position to carry one. Also, carrying a gun large enough to do you any good beyond 10’ makes it much worse. My carry weapon is a Ruger LCP .380. Small, but wildly inaccurate beyond 10’. I have big hands which makes it even harder to use the gun.

[jimjamuser]

I get your point, and agree with "properly trained." However, that does not make a responsible or sensible person by itself. When I was in Junior High/Middle school we had a gun club sponsored by the school and we brought our rifles in and shot targets. We had NRA instruction/instructors that taught gun safety.
As for your point regarding "safely stored" I concur with that IF/IF your guns are stored, ie. spare guns. If you carry a gun for self defense or keep one in the home for self defense, it is not going to be safely stored. But, I do get your point. I taught my children at a very young age, gun safety and allowed them to shoot my firearms with my supervision. One of my children used to shoot competitively on the weekends, and has a very nice shooting range on the property. One of my children uses an indoor local range and a range sponsored by the state parks. My grandchildren (some of them) hunt during season. There have been no accidents in my family (knock on wood or praise GOD).
The saying has been worn out, but still relevant: "Guns do not kill people, people kill people." Even with a new gun carry law, the federal background check will still be required to purchase a firearm.
Fans of the NRA may think that, "the WORN OUT" singsong is still RELEVANT, but not everyone BUYS into that propaganda. But, it makes the NRA and the Gun Makers LOTS of BIG money PROFITS, so we should NOT CARE if a few LITTLE people are killed because the US of A is # 1 by far in gun ownership on planet EARTH. Just forget those little people, they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Go back to watching the mind-numbing TV channel of choice by the Propagandists.

[jimjamuser]

Gotta wonder if those permit numbers in Sumter, Lake and Marion Counties is an accurate representation of the number of people here who actually carry. Florida has reciprocity agreements with a lot of states and if you have a valid permit from one of those states you can legally carry in Florida.

At any rate it looks as if Constitutional Carry in Florida is on track to become law. As I understand it the House Judiciary Committee approved the bill 17-6 and it now goes to the full House for floor discussion. The Governor as I understand it has already indicated that it will get his signature if the Legislature approves it.
It IS so important that it should be voted on like a referendum on the next major election by ALL the people of Florida that go to the polls. I don't TRUST the Florida legislation to do the RIGHT THING.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

......I would be fine with non-concealed carry, BUT..........a big BUT.......if I were in charge of the US, I would require all guns sold to civilians to be SINGLE-SHOT (EVEN including pistols). That way there could be very few MASS MURDERS.

The problem with this is that all multi shot guns would then be owned by criminals. If you think that by passing a law, we are going to prevent crimes, you're wrong. Laws don't prevent crimes, they simply define what crime is and provide punishment for breaking the law.

We already have laws against killing people. Do you think that gang bangers and other criminals are going to follow the law and only get single shot guns? if they are willing to break other laws then they'll be willing to break this one.


Does anyone think that multi shot guns wouldn't be available? Just look at states like California where they have laws restricting magazine capacity. They still have mass murders by people carrying more capacity than the law allows.

Does anyone know if this proposed law is going to allow open carry or would it be concealed only?

[Hardlyworking]

.

The problem with this is that all multi shot guns would then be owned by criminals. If you think that by passing a law, we are going to prevent crimes, you're wrong. Laws don't prevent crimes, they simply define what crime is and provide punishment for breaking the law.

We already have laws against killing people. Do you think that gang bangers and other criminals are going to follow the law and only get single shot guns? if they are willing to break other laws then they'll be willing to break this one.


Does anyone think that multi shot guns wouldn't be available? Just look at states like California where they have laws restricting magazine capacity. They still have mass murders by people carrying more capacity than the law allows.

Does anyone know if this proposed law is going to allow open carry or would it be concealed only?

I think it is concealed carry only, but I didn’t read the entire bill.

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2023/543/BillText/Filed/PDF

[JMintzer]

Fans of the NRA may think that, "the WORN OUT" singsong is still RELEVANT, but not everyone BUYS into that propaganda. But, it makes the NRA and the Gun Makers LOTS of BIG money PROFITS, so we should NOT CARE if a few LITTLE people are killed because the US of A is # 1 by far in gun ownership on planet EARTH. Just forget those little people, they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Go back to watching the mind-numbing TV channel of choice by the Propagandists.

Not everyone buys into YOUR propaganda, either...

Go back to watching the mind numbing TV channel of choice by YOUR Propagandists...

[Byte1]

Fans of the NRA may think that, "the WORN OUT" singsong is still RELEVANT, but not everyone BUYS into that propaganda. But, it makes the NRA and the Gun Makers LOTS of BIG money PROFITS, so we should NOT CARE if a few LITTLE people are killed because the US of A is # 1 by far in gun ownership on planet EARTH. Just forget those little people, they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Go back to watching the mind-numbing TV channel of choice by the Propagandists.

What "propaganda?"
How does the NRA make "lots of big money?"
What "little people" are you speaking of? Leprechauns? Dwarfs?
Is there something wrong with the USA having the most guns? We also have the most TVs in our homes. Is that going to make us dangerous?
What "mind-numbing TV channel" are you speaking of?
:confused:

[Byte1]

I had a carry permit in TN. I didn’t carry a gun everywhere I went, only to certain places. I doubt I will carry anywhere in TV but going outside, I will definitely carry one. After I took the class and passed both the classroom part and the qualifying, I paid the instructor for additional lessons on shooting in different situations and also situational awareness. The latter will sometimes help you more than having a gun.

Carrying a gun is a pain in the arse. There is no real comfortable position to carry one. Also, carrying a gun large enough to do you any good beyond 10’ makes it much worse. My carry weapon is a Ruger LCP .380. Small, but wildly inaccurate beyond 10’. I have big hands which makes it even harder to use the gun.

The LCP fits nicely in the back pocket. It's easy to get used to it IF/IF one wears it all the time, like one would carry a wallet. I figure that if I have to hit someone that is over 10" away, they are most likely not a major threat. I carry for self defense, not to get involved in a gun fight. These are just my thoughts, not that I am disagreeing with you. My daughter carries an LCP also and it is compact enough for most folks to carry it without a second thought. It's just my opinion, but I think the LCP is one of the best CCW pistols of choice, considering how easy it is to carry concealed.

[Hardlyworking]

The LCP fits nicely in the back pocket. It's easy to get used to it IF/IF one wears it all the time, like one would carry a wallet. I figure that if I have to hit someone that is over 10" away, they are most likely not a major threat. I carry for self defense, not to get involved in a gun fight. These are just my thoughts, not that I am disagreeing with you. My daughter carries an LCP also and it is compact enough for most folks to carry it without a second thought. It's just my opinion, but I think the LCP is one of the best CCW pistols of choice, considering how easy it is to carry concealed.

Same here. I usually carry it in my front right pocket. It doesn’t print if you use a soft holster for it. I bought it based on a recommendation from my instructor who was a retired deputy from up in Maryland.

[ThirdOfFive]

It IS so important that it should be voted on like a referendum on the next major election by ALL the people of Florida that go to the polls. I don't TRUST the Florida legislation to do the RIGHT THING.
I don’t think that “trust” in the legislature is a valid issue. The constitutional mechanism is there. The representatives in
Tallahassee of We The People are doing their jobs. The bill to establish constitutional carry is proceeding as it should. And after all, as citizens of a representative republic our allegiance is to a SYSTEM, not to any particular political stance or ideology. No system can—or should—acquiesce to a certain ideology or way of thinking, no matter how earnestly the proponents of that ideology or way of thinking might wish it.

To be honest, any system of governance that lined up precisely with my thinking would scare the living h3ll out of me.

[Boston-Sean]

I had a carry permit in TN. I didn’t carry a gun everywhere I went, only to certain places. I doubt I will carry anywhere in TV but going outside, I will definitely carry one. After I took the class and passed both the classroom part and the qualifying, I paid the instructor for additional lessons on shooting in different situations and also situational awareness. The latter will sometimes help you more than having a gun.

Carrying a gun is a pain in the arse. There is no real comfortable position to carry one. Also, carrying a gun large enough to do you any good beyond 10’ makes it much worse. My carry weapon is a Ruger LCP .380. Small, but wildly inaccurate beyond 10’. I have big hands which makes it even harder to use the gun.

"NYPD firearms expert Frank McGee says the typical police gunfight conforms to a “rule of three:” three rounds, 3 yards, three seconds. Even that might be overstating the duration of the average shootout. Studies show that 85 percent of slain police officers are killed before firing a shot, and nearly 70 percent of gunfights take place over a distance of less than 2 yards."

Civilian encounters are likely very similar.

At a distance of 10 feet on a human size target I would not blame the gun for being inaccurate. Practice more and I'm sure that gun will get more accurate.

Finding a gun you can comfortably carry and shoot well can be a challenge. But it is doable. In winter clothing I carry a Sig P229 legion, in summer clothing a Sig P365 XL. The regular size P365 was a little too small for me. Sig just came out with 17 round mags for all versions of the P365 (9mm). The extended mags do make it harder to conceal though.

I doubt I'll be carrying much in TV.

[jimjamuser]

.

The problem with this is that all multi shot guns would then be owned by criminals. If you think that by passing a law, we are going to prevent crimes, you're wrong. Laws don't prevent crimes, they simply define what crime is and provide punishment for breaking the law.

We already have laws against killing people. Do you think that gang bangers and other criminals are going to follow the law and only get single shot guns? if they are willing to break other laws then they'll be willing to break this one.


Does anyone think that multi shot guns wouldn't be available? Just look at states like California where they have laws restricting magazine capacity. They still have mass murders by people carrying more capacity than the law allows.

Does anyone know if this proposed law is going to allow open carry or would it be concealed only?
I have heard that point before, but riddle me this Batman - What if the Police took away every mult-shot weapon from the people that they arrest or search and paid a small bounty on turning them in? And then sold them in Africa or South America to pay for the bounties. After a short time period the total multi-shot weapon population might go down by 25%. Then, what would happen.......Yes, the COST of mult-shot weapons might go up ......maybe to 50% higher than before the ban. So, only the more affluent GANGSTA-types would afford them and the 2-bit PUNK could NOT. This would continue and Police departments would be buying the multi-shot weapons off the street and selling them abroad. Legal gunsmiths would NOT be allowed to work on civilian multi-shots, so many would fall into disrepair and be useless.
............Eventually, over 80% of all multi-shot weapons would be gone from the US. Now, I ask you and others, in all sincerety have you EVER heard of any plan or a better plan to fight CRIME and get the MOST DANGEROUS capable of mass-murder .......type guns off of the streets.
...........The answer my friends.......IS NO..........if you are BEING HONEST and NOT just saying, "I like my multi-shot weapons and I will hold my breath and NOT have an open mind about ANYTHING."
...........And therein lies the problem - there IS a solution to gun crimes, but no one in the US wants to have an open mind. And the NRA is a POWERFUL lobbying organization that does NOT mind screwing up US people!

[Boston-Sean]

I have heard that point before, but riddle me this Batman - What if the Police took away every mult-shot weapon from the people that they arrest or search and paid a small bounty on turning them in? And then sold them in Africa or South America to pay for the bounties.

If these "multi-shot" guns are as dangerous as you claim why would you want to dump them on the people of Africa and South America???

Oh, wait. Black + Brown people live there.

I guess White Supremacy exists even in TV.

[Boston-Sean]

Legal gunsmiths would NOT be allowed to work on civilian multi-shots, so many would fall into disrepair and be useless.


My main gun that I shoot in Steel Challenge matches has about 25K rounds through it. The only work a gunsmith has done on it was an upgrade of the trigger. And that was not necessary for the gun to function. At some point I imagine I'll need to replace the barrel and maybe the extractor and/or a spring or 2 but nothing that will require a gunsmith.

That gun will run for years of very heavy use.

The average gun owner will never need to use a gunsmith.

I'm beginning to think that you don't know a lot about firearms. It's just a hunch I have.

[Kenswing]

My main gun that I shoot in Steel Challenge matches has about 25K rounds through it. The only work a gunsmith has done on it was an upgrade of the trigger. And that was not necessary for the gun to function. At some point I imagine I'll need to replace the barrel and maybe the extractor and/or a spring or 2 but nothing that will require a gunsmith.

That gun will run for years of very heavy use.

The average gun owner will never need to use a gunsmith.

I'm beginning to think that you don't know a lot about firearms. It's just a hunch I have.
Don't be his latest sucker. He will say anything to forward his agenda whether he can support his conclusions with facts or not. He figures the more outrageous of a statement he can make the more of a rise he'll get from people on this forum. He calls it "discussion". lol

[MorTech]

An armed society is a polite society.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

An armed society is a polite society.

No, an armed society is a fearful society.

A polite society doesn't need arms.

[jimjamuser]

What "propaganda?"
How does the NRA make "lots of big money?"
What "little people" are you speaking of? Leprechauns? Dwarfs?
Is there something wrong with the USA having the most guns? We also have the most TVs in our homes. Is that going to make us dangerous?
What "mind-numbing TV channel" are you speaking of?
:confused:
Why NOT just ask me to write a book on the subject? If enough people can come up with enough money, I could write a book on the subject and I could fill in all the intuitively obvious statements. AND I could quote some HISTORY and name, the persons, places, and even the TV channel in question. And maybe even some dark web propaganda pushers.
....... sounds like a lot of work.

[Boston-Sean]

Don't be his latest sucker. He will say anything to forward his agenda whether he can support his conclusions with facts or not. He figures the more outrageous of a statement he can make the more of a rise he'll get from people on this forum. He calls it "discussion". lol

Yes, you are probably right. No one could be as stupid as he appears. Chalk it up to trolling.

[jimjamuser]

I don’t think that “trust” in the legislature is a valid issue. The constitutional mechanism is there. The representatives in
Tallahassee of We The People are doing their jobs. The bill to establish constitutional carry is proceeding as it should. And after all, as citizens of a representative republic our allegiance is to a SYSTEM, not to any particular political stance or ideology. No system can—or should—acquiesce to a certain ideology or way of thinking, no matter how earnestly the proponents of that ideology or way of thinking might wish it.

To be honest, any system of governance that lined up precisely with my thinking would scare the living h3ll out of me.
"Our allegiance is to a SYSTEM" ?????? Like A capitalist SYSTEM,MAYBE ? OK, good. I can live with that system as long as MOST people ACKNOWLEDGE that it is a system that can come out of balance in a heartbeat and turn into a CORRUPT capitalist SYSTEM. To stay in balance the Capitalistic SYSTEM of the US Government requires THREE EQUAL branches with EQUAL power. Do we have that at the Federal level........sometimes in History, but NOT currently.
..........Now, at the state level in Florida, for example......do we have equity and equality for ALL PEOPLE, by ethnicity, color, sex, race, and INCOME level. I think that we-all KNOW the answer to that one! Is the state working toward reducing the CRUSHING problem of global warming and its causing deteriorating coral reefs and intensifying HEAT and the chance of Hurricanes? Is Florida protecting coastal people, property, and wealth? Were coastal people or all people in Florida protected against Hurricane IAN since it is well known that Gulf water temperatures have been increasing for 8 years and set a record last year.
..........So since I feel that the State of Florida has let its sales-tax-paying-citizens DOWN for the last 4 or 5 years - YES I believe that we will be let down again by this SO-CALLED Constitutional (just to invoke the US Constitution) carry to allow any clown to carry a gun and show what a big man (or woman) that they are.
...........When the LAW becomes LAWLESS and inconsiderate and full of personal AMBITION, what is a citizen to DO ? If I had the resources, I think that I might move to a small town near Portland, Or.
..........I'd have to consider Australia, New Zealand, or maybe Spain. Canada would be nice in the summer.

[jimjamuser]

"NYPD firearms expert Frank McGee says the typical police gunfight conforms to a “rule of three:” three rounds, 3 yards, three seconds. Even that might be overstating the duration of the average shootout. Studies show that 85 percent of slain police officers are killed before firing a shot, and nearly 70 percent of gunfights take place over a distance of less than 2 yards."

Civilian encounters are likely very similar.

At a distance of 10 feet on a human size target I would not blame the gun for being inaccurate. Practice more and I'm sure that gun will get more accurate.

Finding a gun you can comfortably carry and shoot well can be a challenge. But it is doable. In winter clothing I carry a Sig P229 legion, in summer clothing a Sig P365 XL. The regular size P365 was a little too small for me. Sig just came out with 17 round mags for all versions of the P365 (9mm). The extended mags do make it harder to conceal though.

I doubt I'll be carrying much in TV.
If it is 3 rounds, 3 seconds, and 3 ft - then you only need 3 rounds, so why have an extender magazine?

[jimjamuser]

If these "multi-shot" guns are as dangerous as you claim why would you want to dump them on the people of Africa and South America???

Oh, wait. Black + Brown people live there.

I guess White Supremacy exists even in TV.
That IS a stretch to try and infer that I had some HIDDEN agenda about Africa and S. America. I meant NOTHING about race.......I meant that they could be SOLD in unstable countries that are at war. Most of those are in Africa and S. America. But, I don't care if they are sold in Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, or any other stan countries. they can be dumped in the ocean. My point is find the BEST way to get rid of them.
.........Incidentally Australia DID eliminate semi-auto rifles and allowed bolt action. That was a good compromise and it worked for them. they have almost ZERO mass murders. Can the US say the same thing??????? Answer NO.
I myself would do Australia ONE BETTER and go to single-shot for all pistols and rifles.
...........TODAY America wants some kind of a solution......desperately. They want to BAN semi-autos, but that won't be all that MEANINGFUL. Because you (if you know guns) and I BOTH know that a good rifleman can shoot a pump rifle as fast as a semi-auto. In Both cases, there IS a little delay in getting the sight back on target after the recoil. Even the .223 has SOME recoil. Anyway the U