Is this called shutting the barn door too late?

[Rainger99]

Spanish Lakes Fairways has removed four alligators from the retention pond where a woman was killed by an alligator earlier this week.

I called The Villages when I first got here and reported an alligator that was in a nearby retention pond. They said that they won't do anything unless it attacks either a person or an animal. So apparently, they get one attack or kill before anyone does anything about them.

Predators are cleared from lake near retirement community after woman savaged to death by reptile | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11789131/Predators-cleared-lake-near-retirement-community-woman-savaged-death-reptile.html)

[Bill14564]

Spanish Lakes Fairways has removed four alligators from the retention pond where a woman was killed by an alligator earlier this week.

I called The Villages when I first got here and reported an alligator that was in a nearby retention pond. They said that they won't do anything unless it attacks either a person or an animal. So apparently, they get one attack or kill before anyone does anything about them.

Predators are cleared from lake near retirement community after woman savaged to death by reptile | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11789131/Predators-cleared-lake-near-retirement-community-woman-savaged-death-reptile.html)

*Maybe* it was necessary to remove the one alligator who *might* now see humans as food but it certainly wasn't necessary to remove them all. (Note that they removed alligators from the entire community; there were not four alligators in one pond). The needless removal, and likely destruction, of a native animal behaving naturally is sad. I really hate the idea but maybe it is necessary to put fences around all the ponds to keep the foolish people away.

We enjoy looking for alligators in the ponds here.

Things to learn:
- There are alligators in the fresh water in Florida
- Walking your small dog at the edge of the water is dangerous
- Standing and watching an alligator swim across the pond towards you and your dog is a really bad idea

[Byte1]

Alligators are of no use in a populated community. They are only good for luggage, boots and cuisine.

[Dusty_Star]

Alligators are of no use in a populated community. They are only good for luggage, boots and cuisine.


Agree!!!

[Altavia]

*Maybe* it was necessary to remove the one alligator who *might* now see humans as food but it certainly wasn't necessary to remove them all. (Note that they removed alligators from the entire community; there were not four alligators in one pond). The needless removal, and likely destruction, of a native animal behaving naturally is sad. I really hate the idea but maybe it is necessary to put fences around all the ponds to keep the foolish people away.

We enjoy looking for alligators in the ponds here.

Things to learn:
- There are alligators in the fresh water in Florida
- Walking your small dog at the edge of the water is dangerous
- Standing and watching an alligator swim across the pond towards you and your dog is a really bad idea

- They sometimes like to watch/follow the people fishing, often see children fishing close to the edge.

[fdpaq0580]

Alligators are of no use in a populated community. They are only good for luggage, boots and cuisine.

Same could be said of all animals, wild and domestic, insects, fish, reptiles, birds (sandhill cranes are road hazards), etc. Kill them all! "And your little dog, too."
(Hope you recognise sarcasm.)

[dewilson58]

Or, they were already scheduled to be removed.

[Pairadocs]

*Maybe* it was necessary to remove the one alligator who *might* now see humans as food but it certainly wasn't necessary to remove them all. (Note that they removed alligators from the entire community; there were not four alligators in one pond). The needless removal, and likely destruction, of a native animal behaving naturally is sad. I really hate the idea but maybe it is necessary to put fences around all the ponds to keep the foolish people away.

We enjoy looking for alligators in the ponds here.

Things to learn:
- There are alligators in the fresh water in Florida
- Walking your small dog at the edge of the water is dangerous
- Standing and watching an alligator swim across the pond towards you and your dog is a really bad idea

Don't disagree with your comments, however, I think you have to think much deeper and in a more complex way concerning this incident. By that I mean, the emotional responses of human beings. Perhaps a majority of the residents of this community were outraged, in much the same way people (understandably) get outraged over any tragic incident. Sometimes the public PRESSURE overrides "common sense". Recent example might be train derailment in Ohio. "Officials" sometimes give "too much" weight to public pressure and this results in an OVER REACTION. In my opinion that is what happened here. As odd as it seems, sometimes an OVER REACTION, like in this case killing or removing ALL gators, will placate the masses ! ? No, it does not make "sense", but oddly enough it will usually serve to calm the emotions of the angry, frustrated, and fearful people.

[Bill14564]

Don't disagree with your comments, however, I think you have to think much deeper and in a more complex way concerning this incident. By that I mean, the emotional responses of human beings. Perhaps a majority of the residents of this community were outraged, in much the same way people (understandably) get outraged over any tragic incident. Sometimes the public PRESSURE overrides "common sense". Recent example might be train derailment in Ohio. "Officials" sometimes give "too much" weight to public pressure and this results in an OVER REACTION. In my opinion that is what happened here. As odd as it seems, sometimes an OVER REACTION, like in this case killing or removing ALL gators, will placate the masses ! ? No, it does not make "sense", but oddly enough it will usually serve to calm the emotions of the angry, frustrated, and fearful people.

Over reactions to calm the emotions of angry, frustrated, and fearful people often result in events that history remembers as tragedies. I have no doubt that what you say is correct, I just wish we could move beyond the emotional over reaction to more rational responses. This time it is just alligators but what/who will it be next time?

[Stu from NYC]

Perhaps a fence is in order but the alligators were here first.

[Battlebasset]

Spanish Lakes Fairways has removed four alligators from the retention pond where a woman was killed by an alligator earlier this week.

I called The Villages when I first got here and reported an alligator that was in a nearby retention pond. They said that they won't do anything unless it attacks either a person or an animal. So apparently, they get one attack or kill before anyone does anything about them.

Predators are cleared from lake near retirement community after woman savaged to death by reptile | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11789131/Predators-cleared-lake-near-retirement-community-woman-savaged-death-reptile.html)

I have a retention pond behind my house. It was the feature that sold me on my place - open space behind us and water. There is a three foot retention wall with a roughly 3 foot+ vertical bar fence on top of it. So no real worries about a gator getting into my back yard.

All that said - I never put my small dog in the backyard without me there. She could easily squeeze between the lateral bars. And I never go into the pond area. We saw a gator the first month we were here, and we almost see one daily now. It's fun to watch them lay around on the bank, and when the water is low, there is a sandbar near the drainage pipe he/she likes to lay on. It's almost like he is on top of the water. Our guests love it. The most I had in NJ were stupid deer that destroyed my landscaping and made my yard look like cow pasture.

Stay away from the ponds, use common sense, and you won't have a problem.

[Bogie Shooter]

How many people have been attacked in the history of The Villages?

[Byte1]

Perhaps a fence is in order but the alligators were here first.

So were our indigenous natives. We are at the top of the food chain, therefore if we find them(gators) dangerous and of no practical use other than something to look at and say "Oh look!" then they can be removed. Oh my, someone cleared a forest in order to build homes for PEOPLE. What a shame. They were here first. Folks need to wake up (not WOKE) and realize that if we want to exist, we have to step on ants, kill plants and animals in order to eat, etc. If gators present a danger then they need to be removed, whether someone wishes to move them to another, safer environment or just destroy them. This is a residential community, not a wildlife sanctuary.

[Byte1]

How many people have been attacked in the history of The Villages?

I would think that even one attack would be too much.

[MSchad]

Spanish Lakes Fairways has removed four alligators from the retention pond where a woman was killed by an alligator earlier this week.

I called The Villages when I first got here and reported an alligator that was in a nearby retention pond. They said that they won't do anything unless it attacks either a person or an animal. So apparently, they get one attack or kill before anyone does anything about them.

Predators are cleared from lake near retirement community after woman savaged to death by reptile | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11789131/Predators-cleared-lake-near-retirement-community-woman-savaged-death-reptile.html)
Moose are next….
Moose kicking a woman in the head while walking her dog in Alaska (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/02/22/video-moose-alaska-kicks-woman-head-walking-dog/11323740002/)

[fdpaq0580]

Moose are next….


Somebody warn the folks at the moose lodge! And the lions club and BPOE beware.

[Tvflguy]

There are risks in life.

A car on a road here passes a golf cart in the cart lane 15+ mph with a space of a couple feet. If either takes their eye off their driving, smash.

Cars are 5-6 feet away from each other going in opposite directions. Same as above, and crash.

A golfer strays too close to another and the golf club smacks him.

There are so many instances where a life is in danger. We cannot eliminate everything. Minimize the risk yes, but….

We must all be aware of dangers in everyday life. Be aware and be careful.

So sorry if humans are hurt or worse by an alligator. I enjoy seeing the occasional gator while golfing. It would be a sad day if gators are removed from THEIR environment due to a sad, but avoidable incident.

[logdog]

A couple of months ago a dog died after a vicious attack by a another dog on the Historic Side. Last year a dog bite victim had to undergo a series of rabies shots after an attack at the Mulberry Dog Park.

Do we need to consider removing all dogs from The Villages?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

So were our indigenous natives. We are at the top of the food chain, therefore if we find them(gators) dangerous and of no practical use other than something to look at and say "Oh look!" then they can be removed. Oh my, someone cleared a forest in order to build homes for PEOPLE. What a shame. They were here first. Folks need to wake up (not WOKE) and realize that if we want to exist, we have to step on ants, kill plants and animals in order to eat, etc. If gators present a danger then they need to be removed, whether someone wishes to move them to another, safer environment or just destroy them. This is a residential community, not a wildlife sanctuary.

I agree! Did you know that birds of prey kill domestic cats allowed to roam free? We need to kill all the bald eagles that fly around The Villages. They present a danger, and they need to be removed. This is a residential community, not a wildlife sanctuary.

[Number 10 GI]

Alligators are predators. That means they hunt other animals for food. When predators become too accustomed to having humans around and not fear them guess what, you become prey to them. To say that they were here first is a ludicrous statement. Bears were here before us so how happy would you be if a bear decided your lanai makes a great place to live and raid your kitchen. How about a water moccasin or cottonmouth likes your flower bed and sets up a den there? Skunks were here before us also. It would be quite aromatic if they decided to make a den beside your house! No problem, right?

Just thought about this. Rats and mice were here before us and so were termites, but people do their best to eliminate them. Remember they were here first!

[coffeebean]

So were our indigenous natives. We are at the top of the food chain, therefore if we find them(gators) dangerous and of no practical use other than something to look at and say "Oh look!" then they can be removed. Oh my, someone cleared a forest in order to build homes for PEOPLE. What a shame. They were here first. Folks need to wake up (not WOKE) and realize that if we want to exist, we have to step on ants, kill plants and animals in order to eat, etc. If gators present a danger then they need to be removed, whether someone wishes to move them to another, safer environment or just destroy them. This is a residential community, not a wildlife sanctuary.

Agree. Survival of the fittest. Humans are the fittest as we have a thought process that alligators do not. They were here first but we are here now. I would like to see every one of the alligators that live in our residential area ponds to be relocated.

[Pondboy]

Makes me sad to read these posts where people say to kill the gators and use them for luggage and shoes.

The human animal is the most dangerous animal on the planet. I always read about them killing each other vs the alligators. So why don’t we start eliminating them?

Since 1970 they (the human animal) has been responsible for eliminating 60% of the birds, mammals and fish on this planet. Imagine what they think of us?

If you don’t like gators, why did you move to Florida? Was it a secret that they were everywhere? There are in each pond, so if you don’t like that, stay away from the ponds. Simple as that.

Sadly, the human animal feeds the gators, so when they see the human, they come close looking for a free meal.

If you don’t like the other life forms on this planet, move to one without them, such as the moon or Mars.

[Rainger99]

If you don’t like gators, why did you move to Florida? Was it a secret that they were everywhere?

I don't think anyone moved here because they liked gators. And I don't think anyone moved here because they liked hurricanes.

As far as I can tell, most people move to Florida for the weather and the taxes, and they moved to the Villages for the lifestyle.

Gators and hurricanes are problems with living in Florida but if a problem can be reduced or eliminated, we should do that. Disney has a policy of removing alligators. About 226 were removed between 2016 and 2021.

226 alligators removed from Disney World since toddler’s death 5 years ago (https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2021/05/11/226-alligators-removed-from-disney-world-since-toddlers-death-5-years-ago/)

[fdpaq0580]

I don't think anyone moved here because they liked gators. And I don't think anyone moved here because they liked hurricanes.

As far as I can tell, most people move to Florida for the weather and the taxes, and they moved to the Villages for the lifestyle.

Gators and hurricanes are problems with living in Florida but if a problem can be reduced or eliminated, we should do that. Disney has a policy of removing alligators. About 226 were removed between 2016 and 2021.

226 alligators removed from Disney World since toddler’s death 5 years ago (https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2021/05/11/226-alligators-removed-from-disney-world-since-toddlers-death-5-years-ago/)

If Disney would move out of Florida they would save a lot of money not having to move alligators or clean up after hurricanes. (Sarcasm)
Personally, I really enjoy all the wildlife, especially the alligators.

[Sandy and Ed]

Alligators are of no use in a populated community. They are only good for luggage, boots and cuisine.
Don’t entirely agree. Having a coexistence with them requires us to recognize the predator - prey relationship and which is which in the environment here. Maintaining them in an enclosed area and keeping a check on their population might be an acceptable alternative

[Sandy and Ed]

Alligators are predators. That means they hunt other animals for food. When predators become too accustomed to having humans around and not fear them guess what, you become prey to them. To say that they were here first is a ludicrous statement. Bears were here before us so how happy would you be if a bear decided your lanai makes a great place to live and raid your kitchen. How about a water moccasin or cottonmouth likes your flower bed and sets up a den there? Skunks were here before us also. It would be quite aromatic if they decided to make a den beside your house! No problem, right?

Just thought about this. Rats and mice were here before us and so were termites, but people do their best to eliminate them. Remember they were here first!
Hmmmm….but you also need to consider “squatters rights”. Very hard to get a court order to get that vermin to move out of your property once they get all settled in. (Lol)

[Cobullymom]

Don't disagree with your comments, however, I think you have to think much deeper and in a more complex way concerning this incident. By that I mean, the emotional responses of human beings. Perhaps a majority of the residents of this community were outraged, in much the same way people (understandably) get outraged over any tragic incident. Sometimes the public PRESSURE overrides "common sense". Recent example might be train derailment in Ohio. "Officials" sometimes give "too much" weight to public pressure and this results in an OVER REACTION. In my opinion that is what happened here. As odd as it seems, sometimes an OVER REACTION, like in this case killing or removing ALL gators, will placate the masses ! ? No, it does not make "sense", but oddly enough it will usually serve to calm the emotions of the angry, frustrated, and fearful people.
Over reaction of train derailment? Hmm and what exactly was that point thrown out for, has so much correlation to an alligator attack on a woman, keep your politics...and no I don't agree to placating the masses, but apparently it wasn't your home or family there..

[Cobullymom]

I agree! Did you know that birds of prey kill domestic cats allowed to roam free? We need to kill all the bald eagles that fly around The Villages. They present a danger, and they need to be removed. This is a residential community, not a wildlife sanctuary.
I would hope that was sarcasm, but it looks not to be. People are the most destructive beast on this planet, we supposedly have the superior intellect? Killing everything wild because we chose to do stupid things? There is a reason each thing is on this planet. But some make me wonder why, especially some humans.

[me4vt]

Spanish Lakes Fairways has removed four alligators from the retention pond where a woman was killed by an alligator earlier this week.

I called The Villages when I first got here and reported an alligator that was in a nearby retention pond. They said that they won't do anything unless it attacks either a person or an animal. So apparently, they get one attack or kill before anyone does anything about them.

Predators are cleared from lake near retirement community after woman savaged to death by reptile | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11789131/Predators-cleared-lake-near-retirement-community-woman-savaged-death-reptile.html)
This is their Home not Yours! You invaded their living room they didn’t invade Yours🧐

[me4vt]

Alligators are of no use in a populated community. They are only good for luggage, boots and cuisine.
This is their Home not Yours! You invaded their living room they didn’t invade Yours🧐

[me4vt]

I would think that even one attack would be too much.
This is their Home not Yours! You invaded their living room they didn’t invade Yours🧐

[GizmoWhiskers]

*Maybe* it was necessary to remove the one alligator who *might* now see humans as food but it certainly wasn't necessary to remove them all. (Note that they removed alligators from the entire community; there were not four alligators in one pond). The needless removal, and likely destruction, of a native animal behaving naturally is sad. I really hate the idea but maybe it is necessary to put fences around all the ponds to keep the foolish people away.

We enjoy looking for alligators in the ponds here.

Things to learn:
- There are alligators in the fresh water in Florida
- Walking your small dog at the edge of the water is dangerous
- Standing and watching an alligator swim across the pond towards you and your dog is a really bad idea
Just an fyi... alligators can climb fences.

[me4vt]

Don't disagree with your comments, however, I think you have to think much deeper and in a more complex way concerning this incident. By that I mean, the emotional responses of human beings. Perhaps a majority of the residents of this community were outraged, in much the same way people (understandably) get outraged over any tragic incident. Sometimes the public PRESSURE overrides "common sense". Recent example might be train derailment in Ohio. "Officials" sometimes give "too much" weight to public pressure and this results in an OVER REACTION. In my opinion that is what happened here. As odd as it seems, sometimes an OVER REACTION, like in this case killing or removing ALL gators, will placate the masses ! ? No, it does not make "sense", but oddly enough it will usually serve to calm the emotions of the angry, frustrated, and fearful people.
They can always move back to New Jersey or New York 🥴

[GizmoWhiskers]

Alligators are of no use in a populated community. They are only good for luggage, boots and cuisine.
Yeah. One day someone on Red Fox or Gray Fox golf courses may be lunch or dinner to one. They are every where out there.

For our non-floridian transplants... those are NOT bullfrogs croaking in the bushes. Alligators sound like bull frogs. They can travel 20 plus miles during mating season. They can eat kids, dogs and adults. They are not cute fur babies.

[spinner1001]

Spanish Lakes Fairways has removed four alligators from the retention pond where a woman was killed by an alligator earlier this week.

I called The Villages when I first got here and reported an alligator that was in a nearby retention pond. They said that they won't do anything unless it attacks either a person or an animal. So apparently, they get one attack or kill before anyone does anything about them.

Predators are cleared from lake near retirement community after woman savaged to death by reptile | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11789131/Predators-cleared-lake-near-retirement-community-woman-savaged-death-reptile.html)

If a major natural predator is removed from an environment, the consequences would be profound and very likely negative because it would certainly upset the ecological balance. We can’t imagine the consequence details but we can imagine that the nearby natural areas would change and likely for the worse. There are plenty of examples where man has killed off animals and negative natural consequences followed.

What Happens When the Top Predator Is Removed From an Ecosystem? | Education - Seattle PI (https://education.seattlepi.com/happens-top-predator-removed-ecosystem-3496.html)

Does Killing Sharks, Wolves and Other Top Predators Solve Our Conflicts with Them? - Scientific American (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/does-killing-sharks-wolves-and-other-top-predators-solve-our-conflicts-with-them/)

Four Pests campaign - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Pests_campaign?wprov=sfti1)


Mass removal of alligators in Florida is not going to happen.

[Bill14564]

Just an fyi... alligators can climb fences.

Notice I wrote that the fences were to keep the foolish people away. People can climb fences too and some will - you can't fix stupid.

The fences would have to be designed to allow the alligators (and other wildlife) to roam and switch ponds when they need/want to.

[Gunny2403]

Spanish Lakes Fairways has removed four alligators from the retention pond where a woman was killed by an alligator earlier this week.

I called The Villages when I first got here and reported an alligator that was in a nearby retention pond. They said that they won't do anything unless it attacks either a person or an animal. So apparently, they get one attack or kill before anyone does anything about them.

Predators are cleared from lake near retirement community after woman savaged to death by reptile | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11789131/Predators-cleared-lake-near-retirement-community-woman-savaged-death-reptile.html)
Just a stupid post.

[Mrfriendly]

I have a retention pond behind my house. It was the feature that sold me on my place - open space behind us and water. There is a three foot retention wall with a roughly 3 foot+ vertical bar fence on top of it. So no real worries about a gator getting into my back yard.

All that said - I never put my small dog in the backyard without me there. She could easily squeeze between the lateral bars. And I never go into the pond area. We saw a gator the first month we were here, and we almost see one daily now. It's fun to watch them lay around on the bank, and when the water is low, there is a sandbar near the drainage pipe he/she likes to lay on. It's almost like he is on top of the water. Our guests love it. The most I had in NJ were stupid deer that destroyed my landscaping and made my yard look like cow pasture.

Stay away from the ponds, use common sense, and you won't have a problem.


Battlebasset, I will trade you 150 deer for one alligator 🤫

[Gunny2403]

Maybe.

[Black Beauty]

I've heard there are more dogs in TV than people

[RICH1]

another case of REPTILE-DISFUNCTION in The Villages

[coconutmama]

Makes me sad to read these posts where people say to kill the gators and use them for luggage and shoes.

The human animal is the most dangerous animal on the planet. I always read about them killing each other vs the alligators. So why don’t we start eliminating them?

Since 1970 they (the human animal) has been responsible for eliminating 60% of the birds, mammals and fish on this planet. Imagine what they think of us?

If you don’t like gators, why did you move to Florida? Was it a secret that they were everywhere? There are in each pond, so if you don’t like that, stay away from the ponds. Simple as that.

Sadly, the human animal feeds the gators, so when they see the human, they come close looking for a free meal.

If you don’t like the other life forms on this planet, move to one without them, such as the moon or Mars.

Totally agree. Love the gators. Remove the people that stupidly feed them & all will be fine

[sloanst]

Spanish Lakes Fairways has removed four alligators from the retention pond where a woman was killed by an alligator earlier this week.

I called The Villages when I first got here and reported an alligator that was in a nearby retention pond. They said that they won't do anything unless it attacks either a person or an animal. So apparently, they get one attack or kill before anyone does anything about them.

Predators are cleared from lake near retirement community after woman savaged to death by reptile | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11789131/Predators-cleared-lake-near-retirement-community-woman-savaged-death-reptile.html)


The Villages will bring in trappers if an alligator is too larger. I don't know how they would measure that, but they have removed gators from Mangrove that were especially huge. Also, if they find that some IDIOT is feeding the alligators, they will remove them.

[joelfmi]

Thanks for transparency. Won't be looking there

[Larchap49]

Spanish Lakes Fairways has removed four alligators from the retention pond where a woman was killed by an alligator earlier this week.

I called The Villages when I first got here and reported an alligator that was in a nearby retention pond. They said that they won't do anything unless it attacks either a person or an animal. So apparently, they get one attack or kill before anyone does anything about them.

Predators are cleared from lake near retirement community after woman savaged to death by reptile | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11789131/Predators-cleared-lake-near-retirement-community-woman-savaged-death-reptile.html)

They were here long before you. I sympathize with her family but walking yourself or a dog next to a pond is an invitation for trouble.

[3105boy]

My apologies to the naturalists, but allowing any animals who can kill humans in close proximity is wrong. Alligators are certainly not endangered. Thus, they should be treated like fish. Allow licensed hunters to harvest all in neighborhood ponds over a set size. Feed the poor with the catch. Hunting will make alligators fear humans and we will all be safer.
Photo of my front door…glad the lights were on!

[Bill14564]

The Villages will bring in trappers if an alligator is too larger. I don't know how they would measure that, but they have removed gators from Mangrove that were especially huge. Also, if they find that some IDIOT is feeding the alligators, they will remove them.

Unfortunately, you mean they will remove the alligator and not the IDIOT.

[paminix]

another case of REPTILE-DISFUNCTION in The Villages
So funny!!!

[ThirdOfFive]

another case of REPTILE-DISFUNCTION in The Villages
Now that is a hard thing to say….

Like so many other topics that get discussed here, the preconceived notions come to the fore. If one is comparing dangerous critter to dangerous critter, then the most dangerous critter on the planet happens to not be allligators at all, or even reptiles in general, but—MOSQUITOES!

It is common preconception though. I still get comments from people up north about the dangers of living in Florida, the top two being (in their minds anyway) the killer heat and deadly reptiles. But neither one is a danger if you use a little common sense. As tragic as the death of this woman was, the fact of the matter was that she was trying to rescue her dog from the alligator! Her mistake, and it turned out to be a deadly one, was that as I understand it her and her dog got too close to the water.

All that is needed is a little common sense. Don’t allow Rover to get too close to the water. Dogs are on the menu, people aren’t. Don’t look for your ball if you hit it into the weeds adjacent to a shoreline. Obey the signs that say don’t feed the alligators. Don’t go for romantic moonlight walks along any large(r) pond or body of water, especially not with Rover tagging along. Don’t get too close to that basking alligator so you can get the perfect picture (unless of course your idea of a “perfect picture” is a close-up of teeth). Use your head. Give the gators their space. Both species will be far happier.

[Dantes]

They were here before us
I do believe the world would be a better place without animals so let’s get rid of them all and have a big barbecue lol

[Dantes]

My opinion move north if you moved to Florida and didn’t do your homework about the wildlife maybe reconsider moving just my humble opinion

[Ipecoraro]

People learn to be smart! Stay away from walking by the ponds. Ponds are there for beauty and not to walk along especially with a small dog.
Look what happened to our Buffalo. Someone stupidly reached over the fence to feed them and was bitten. All the buffalo were removed because of this stupid action. We loved watching the Buffalo.
People smarten up!!!

[airstreamingypsy]

I would think that even one attack would be too much.

Oh please, if a dog attacks should we remove all dogs? All raccoons? Snakes? All everything? The woman did a stupid thing when she walked her little dog next to a pond. Period. How she could live as long as she did and not know that you don't walk dogs next to ponds is beyond me. Killing all the gators was a stunt to make people feel good, there will be plenty more where they came from.

[Lindaws]

Correct.

[MrFlorida]

Gators are a part of Florida, get with it or move.

[ahill99]

I don't believe this attack was in the Villages.

[cjrjck]

I grew up in alligator territory. For the most part they are just a part of nature to be be observed and enjoyed, but also respected. One thing that was not tolerated normally was an alligator in a neighborhood pond or community recreation center. At some point, they become a risk to pets and children. In those situations, the alligator was relocated. The Villages has far too many neighborhood alligators. Perhaps because there are few children and not an abundance of pets, the risk associated with these neighborhood alligators is considered mitigated. As someone who has been around alligators most of my life, I can tell you that many of these local neighborhood alligators in TV have little or no fear of humans. I fish in my kayak in some of the backwaters not far from here and those alligators are far different. Young ones are always curious, but the older ones don't want anything to do with you and as you approach them, they will normally fade under and away.

[TrapX]

Alligators were NOT here first. Maybe in Florida, but NOT HERE.
Look at any older satellite image where there were huge open fields before TV was built. No ponds. No alligators.
Then TV was built. Houses, roads, rec centers... and new ponds. Then the alligators moved in.
Alligators invaded our neighborhoods, not the other way around.
One would think the developer hates the bad publicity of allowing alligators to remain here to kill people. It costs him money in lost sales. A lawyer might even win a lawsuit based upon allowing a situation to exist that's known to be dangerous to humans, where they're likely to be harmed by failing to remove the alligators. That's big money.
If it's ok to remove one, than it's ok to remove all of them. Trappers can take every one they find. That can't happen soon enough.

[Bill14564]

Alligators were NOT here first. Maybe in Florida, but NOT HERE.
Look at any older satellite image where there were huge open fields before TV was built. No ponds. No alligators.
Then TV was built. Houses, roads, rec centers... and new ponds. Then the alligators moved in.
Alligators invaded our neighborhoods, not the other way around.
One would think the developer hates the bad publicity of allowing alligators to remain here to kill people. It costs him money in lost sales.
...

Good suggestion to look at the old maps. No, there was no pond 3/4 of the way down Pinellas Ave. Of course, that is because there was no Pinellas Ave. What there was instead was a lot of open, marshy land which was likely inhabited by alligators. The water was here, the alligators were here, the Villages and the people are the newcomers.

Good point about the alligators and marketing. I know every visitor I have had has asked to go out to see alligators. I enjoy seeing the alligators. They might actually be a selling point.

Far more deaths by golf carts - perhaps we should eradicate those. Far more complaints about dogs - perhaps we should ban them.

[spinner1001]

Alligators were NOT here first. Maybe in Florida, but NOT HERE.


No.

Alligators have been around here for a very long time. Scientists have been counting them in larger lakes around here for decades. Alligators certainly travel from larger lakes to smaller lakes and natural wetlands.

Authorities Mystified Over Fatal Attack | AP News (https://apnews.com/article/1874ba0341973983870914077f3c56fe)

https://usgs-cru-individual-data.s3.amazonaws.com/cmoore/tech_publications/Woodward%20%20Moore%20(1990)%20Statewide%20Surveys %20FR-1.pdf

[nhtexasrn]

So were our indigenous natives. We are at the top of the food chain, therefore if we find them(gators) dangerous and of no practical use other than something to look at and say "Oh look!" then they can be removed. Oh my, someone cleared a forest in order to build homes for PEOPLE. What a shame. They were here first. Folks need to wake up (not WOKE) and realize that if we want to exist, we have to step on ants, kill plants and animals in order to eat, etc. If gators present a danger then they need to be removed, whether someone wishes to move them to another, safer environment or just destroy them. This is a residential community, not a wildlife sanctuary. Alligators are an essential part of the ecosystem in Florida. Actually, they never present a danger to anyone! It's ignorant people who put themselves, their children and pets in harms way. It is quite easy to co-exist with wildlife here and anywhere else. Sadly, they get the short end of the stick.

[GPGuar]

Nope!

[Lchughart@gmail.com]

Truth be known, we enjoy watching the alligator in the small leak behind our house, having said that when I’m fishing I’ll keep an eye on the alligator although it doesn’t stress me out much.

[jimjamuser]

Spanish Lakes Fairways has removed four alligators from the retention pond where a woman was killed by an alligator earlier this week.

I called The Villages when I first got here and reported an alligator that was in a nearby retention pond. They said that they won't do anything unless it attacks either a person or an animal. So apparently, they get one attack or kill before anyone does anything about them.

Predators are cleared from lake near retirement community after woman savaged to death by reptile | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11789131/Predators-cleared-lake-near-retirement-community-woman-savaged-death-reptile.html)
AND the gators got that big because stupid PEOPLE feed them!

[jimjamuser]

*Maybe* it was necessary to remove the one alligator who *might* now see humans as food but it certainly wasn't necessary to remove them all. (Note that they removed alligators from the entire community; there were not four alligators in one pond). The needless removal, and likely destruction, of a native animal behaving naturally is sad. I really hate the idea but maybe it is necessary to put fences around all the ponds to keep the foolish people away.

We enjoy looking for alligators in the ponds here.

Things to learn:
- There are alligators in the fresh water in Florida
- Walking your small dog at the edge of the water is dangerous
- Standing and watching an alligator swim across the pond towards you and your dog is a really bad idea
They are hardly endangered - they will probably be on earth longer than humans. No need for large alligators (for me, over 4ft) to be allowed in TV Land ponds. Just a HUMAN DEATH waiting to happen. And the people that feed gators should have to write that lady's relatives a letter of apology.

[jimjamuser]

I have a retention pond behind my house. It was the feature that sold me on my place - open space behind us and water. There is a three foot retention wall with a roughly 3 foot+ vertical bar fence on top of it. So no real worries about a gator getting into my back yard.

All that said - I never put my small dog in the backyard without me there. She could easily squeeze between the lateral bars. And I never go into the pond area. We saw a gator the first month we were here, and we almost see one daily now. It's fun to watch them lay around on the bank, and when the water is low, there is a sandbar near the drainage pipe he/she likes to lay on. It's almost like he is on top of the water. Our guests love it. The most I had in NJ were stupid deer that destroyed my landscaping and made my yard look like cow pasture.

Stay away from the ponds, use common sense, and you won't have a problem.
During mating season or droughts, Gators will walk down the streets looking for procreation or new lakes. They might walk into your lawn from the front and not the lake. And you can't keep snakes out either.
.......If someone likes gators so much, try walking about one mile through swampy land at night.........I have
........and I don't think that too many people would want to.

[Daxdog]

A child was killed by a gator at Disney a few years ago, parents ignored a warning sign and did not watch the child. The water was a man made lake, but lots of water nearby it could came from, not the child’s fault, parents to busy drinking and not watching child.

This lady should have known better, come on man, small dog equals gator bait.

Got to be careful a eagle could take it away.

The pond near Brownwood had a gator snowbirds stopped to feel it, it got used to it and had to be destroyed.

It’s not always a Darwin Awards winner, that dog and child had no idea what was possible, but a grownup should. If she ever saw a gator in all the time she lived here, well maybe, but use some common sense and responsibility for your actions.

[Escape Artist]

Spanish Lakes Fairways has removed four alligators from the retention pond where a woman was killed by an alligator earlier this week.

I called The Villages when I first got here and reported an alligator that was in a nearby retention pond. They said that they won't do anything unless it attacks either a person or an animal. So apparently, they get one attack or kill before anyone does anything about them.

Predators are cleared from lake near retirement community after woman savaged to death by reptile | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11789131/Predators-cleared-lake-near-retirement-community-woman-savaged-death-reptile.html)

I would like to state that my fear of alligators was one of the reasons I was hesitant about moving to the Villages. This is an awful, tragic thing that happened and totally avoidable. Developments with dense populations, especially vulnerable populations like seniors or children, should remove them and locate them elsewhere.

[Carlsondm]

Alligators are of no use in a populated community. They are only good for luggage, boots and cuisine.
They were here first!

[Byte1]

I don't care whether or not gators were here before humans. If they are dangerous, they should be removed. I don't care if they eat them, make luggage out of them or whatever as long as they take them out of populated areas. I like trees but I am not a tree hugger. If a tree needs to be taken down in order to make a home, so be it. Someone mentioned birds of prey snatching up domestic cats that are allowed to roam. Sorry, but pet cats should stay in the home or be supervised by it's owner like a dog. No, I would not bother with birds of prey unless they became dangerous to humans. I don't want bears roaming the Villages, just because they were here first. I do not care who or what was here first. If I purchase a home, I don't want wildlife endangering my family or friends, period. And I have no intention of moving some place else "if I don't like it." I love wildlife and I love trees and landscapes, but if I want to build a home on my property anywhere, it doesn't matter what was there first.
The gator goes, not granny.

[Bill14564]

I don't care whether or not gators were here before humans. If they are dangerous, they should be removed. I don't care if they eat them, make luggage out of them or whatever as long as they take them out of populated areas. I like trees but I am not a tree hugger. If a tree needs to be taken down in order to make a home, so be it. Someone mentioned birds of prey snatching up domestic cats that are allowed to roam. Sorry, but pet cats should stay in the home or be supervised by it's owner like a dog. No, I would not bother with birds of prey unless they became dangerous to humans. I don't want bears roaming the Villages, just because they were here first. I do not care who or what was here first. If I purchase a home, I don't want wildlife endangering my family or friends, period. And I have no intention of moving some place else "if I don't like it." I love wildlife and I love trees and landscapes, but if I want to build a home on my property anywhere, it doesn't matter what was there first.
The gator goes, not granny.

Cars are more dangerous to humans than alligators so by your logic, cars go.
Alcohol is more dangerous to humans than alligators so by your logic, alcohol goes.
Dogs are more dangerous to humans than alligators so by your logic, dogs go.
Bicycles, golf carts, peanuts ...

OR, humans wise up and don't do stupid things and then they all can stay.

[Normal]

Spanish Lakes Fairways has removed four alligators from the retention pond where a woman was killed by an alligator earlier this week.

I called The Villages when I first got here and reported an alligator that was in a nearby retention pond. They said that they won't do anything unless it attacks either a person or an animal. So apparently, they get one attack or kill before anyone does anything about them.



There have been ZERO Gator deaths in the Villages to date. They must be doing something right!

[Byte1]

Cars are more dangerous to humans than alligators so by your logic, cars go.
Alcohol is more dangerous to humans than alligators so by your logic, alcohol goes.
Dogs are more dangerous to humans than alligators so by your logic, dogs go.
Bicycles, golf carts, peanuts ...

OR, humans wise up and don't do stupid things and then they all can stay.

Really? Not sure if you are being satiric.
Like I said earlier, we live in a populated community of seniors, some very are very slow physically and mentally. If you wish to own a gator, then you should take responsibility for it and keep it from harming others. Same with the few poisonous snakes here. I suppose by some folks logic, mosquitoes should be left alone and they should not spray here, so we don't cause them any harm. Rats should be left to live in our attics. A few bears aren't going to harm anyone, right?
C'mon folks, get some common sense. Quit trying to compare ridiculous ideas such as the dangers of car, motorcycles, dogs, birds, peanuts, etc. to REAL dangers. You all did leave out accidental drowning in the many/many swimming pools in the Villages.
There is NO common sense reason for a 'gator to stay in the Villages. We do not live in a zoo or a wildlife sanctuary. And please stop feeding the coyotes, because they are being encouraged to stay around residential areas.

[Vermilion Villager]

How many people have been attacked in the history of The Villages?

By alligators....0
By drunk cougars on the other hand.........??????:1rotfl::1rotfl:

[JoMar]

I don't care whether or not gators were here before humans. If they are dangerous, they should be removed. I don't care if they eat them, make luggage out of them or whatever as long as they take them out of populated areas. I like trees but I am not a tree hugger. If a tree needs to be taken down in order to make a home, so be it. Someone mentioned birds of prey snatching up domestic cats that are allowed to roam. Sorry, but pet cats should stay in the home or be supervised by it's owner like a dog. No, I would not bother with birds of prey unless they became dangerous to humans. I don't want bears roaming the Villages, just because they were here first. I do not care who or what was here first. If I purchase a home, I don't want wildlife endangering my family or friends, period. And I have no intention of moving some place else "if I don't like it." I love wildlife and I love trees and landscapes, but if I want to build a home on my property anywhere, it doesn't matter what was there first.
The gator goes, not granny.

They live among us.

[Daxdog]

I don't care whether or not gators were here before humans. If they are dangerous, they should be removed. I don't care if they eat them, make luggage out of them or whatever as long as they take them out of populated areas. I like trees but I am not a tree hugger. If a tree needs to be taken down in order to make a home, so be it. Someone mentioned birds of prey snatching up domestic cats that are allowed to roam. Sorry, but pet cats should stay in the home or be supervised by it's owner like a dog. No, I would not bother with birds of prey unless they became dangerous to humans. I don't want bears roaming the Villages, just because they were here first. I do not care who or what was here first. If I purchase a home, I don't want wildlife endangering my family or friends, period. And I have no intention of moving some place else "if I don't like it." I love wildlife and I love trees and landscapes, but if I want to build a home on my property anywhere, it doesn't matter what was there first.
The gator goes, not granny.

How do think they can be removed? How do you keep them from coming back?

[Maker]

There have been ZERO Gator deaths in the Villages to date. They must be doing something right!

Somebody missed the news about the granny getting killed by an alligator. Previous incidents of near misses were warning signs of serious problems coming. It was just a matter of time. And that time is here.

One preventable death is too many.

Insanity is doing the same things and expecting a different result. It's time to do something different so we avoid another unnecessary death.
Get rid of every alligator now. There are plenty elsewhere. Sad that action wasn't taken already, and someone would still be alive.

This is a community of humans, not a zoo. Alligators are a real danger to all of us. Removing them would make this a safer place to live and enjoy. Leaving them here will only lead to another death.

I dare everyone who says "leave them here" to go the the person's funeral, and look their family in their eyes and tell them how alligators are more important than human life. More important than their loved one. Stand there and watch the family cry. Feel their grief. Then tell them how she should have known better. See how that goes.

[Djean1981]

*Maybe* it was necessary to remove the one alligator who *might* now see humans as food but it certainly wasn't necessary to remove them all. (Note that they removed alligators from the entire community; there were not four alligators in one pond). The needless removal, and likely destruction, of a native animal behaving naturally is sad. I really hate the idea but maybe it is necessary to put fences around all the ponds to keep the foolish people away.

We enjoy looking for alligators in the ponds here.

Things to learn:
- There are alligators in the fresh water in Florida
- Walking your small dog at the edge of the water is dangerous
- Standing and watching an alligator swim across the pond towards you and your dog is a really bad idea
Maybe they weren't absolutely certain which one had developed a taste for humans.

[Bill14564]

Somebody missed the news about the granny getting killed by an alligator. Previous incidents of near misses were warning signs of serious problems coming. It was just a matter of time. And that time is here.

One preventable death is too many.

Insanity is doing the same things and expecting a different result. It's time to do something different so we avoid another unnecessary death.
Get rid of every alligator now. There are plenty elsewhere. Sad that action wasn't taken already, and someone would still be alive.

This is a community of humans, not a zoo. Alligators are a real danger to all of us. Removing them would make this a safer place to live and enjoy. Leaving them here will only lead to another death.

I dare everyone who says "leave them here" to go the the person's funeral, and look their family in their eyes and tell them how alligators are more important than human life. More important than their loved one. Stand there and watch the family cry. Feel their grief. Then tell them how she should have known better. See how that goes.

I missed the news about granny being killed in the Villages. Care to share a link??

If granny stands on the train tracks and gets hit do we blame the trains? If granny steps into traffic and gets hit do we blame the cars? If granny stands at the water’s edge and watches an alligator swim towards her do we blame the alligator? Choices and actions have consequences.

[meme5x]

I have a retention pond behind my house. It was the feature that sold me on my place - open space behind us and water. There is a three foot retention wall with a roughly 3 foot+ vertical bar fence on top of it. So no real worries about a gator getting into my back yard.

All that said - I never put my small dog in the backyard without me there. She could easily squeeze between the lateral bars. And I never go into the pond area. We saw a gator the first month we were here, and we almost see one daily now. It's fun to watch them lay around on the bank, and when the water is low, there is a sandbar near the drainage pipe he/she likes to lay on. It's almost like he is on top of the water. Our guests love it. The most I had in NJ were stupid deer that destroyed my landscaping and made my yard look like cow pasture.

Stay away from the ponds, use common sense, and you won't have a problem.

I agree.. don’t live by one but enjoy watching wildlife on way to postal station

[Maker]

I missed the news about granny being killed in the Villages. Care to share a link??

If granny stands on the train tracks and gets hit do we blame the trains? If granny steps into traffic and gets hit do we blame the cars? If granny stands at the water’s edge and watches an alligator swim towards her do we blame the alligator? Choices and actions have consequences.

Safety experts say "All accidents are preventable."
The choice and action to remove every alligator will prevent another accidental death. Human life outweighs everything. I support that choice 100%.
Who do I blame for a human life being killed by an alligator? I blame the people who refused to mitigate the problem, and allowed it to be a problem.

You're welcome to find a solution to the other off-topic problems you highlighted. They are not relevant to solving the issue of alligators killing people near the villages man-made ponds.

Just curious - why do you value an alligator's life over an human life?

[Bill14564]

Safety experts say "All accidents are preventable."
The choice and action to remove every alligator will prevent another accidental death. Human life outweighs everything. I support that choice 100%.
Who do I blame for a human life being killed by an alligator? I blame the people who refused to mitigate the problem, and allowed it to be a problem.

You're welcome to find a solution to the other off-topic problems you highlighted. They are not relevant to solving the issue of alligators killing people near the villages man-made ponds.

Just curious - why do you value an alligator's life over an human life?

The solution to the alligator "problem" is the same as the solution to the other, off-topic problems: Don't put yourself in an obviously dangerous situation. Don't stand on the tracks while a train is approaching is more than just grammatically the same as don't stand on the shoreline while an alligator is approaching.

Just curious - why do you think that disguising an accusation as a question makes a good argument?

In answer to your accusation, I don't value an alligator's life over an human life. If I was there at the time and had a weapon with me there is no question which of the two I would have used the weapon on.

But that isn't the situation now, it isn't an alligator life vs. human life situation. The question now is whether alligators in their natural habitat can coexist with humans? Do we need to kill all the alligators to make humans safe? Over the last 75 years there has been fewer than one death by alligator every three years. Of all the things out there that can kill us, alligators seem to be relatively safe. When you consider the circumstances behind many of those deaths (wading in to retrieve a disc or golf ball, standing on the shore watching the alligator approach) it seems the humans took the action to put themselves in danger - were it not for clearly poor choices the humans made, they would not have been killed.

If an animal is threatening a human then the animal should lose. If a human puts themselves into a dangerous situation then it's hard to blame the animal. Killing animals to make it impossible for humans to make bad choices is just wrong.

An alligator kills a human about once every three years. By contrast, dogs kill between 30 and 40 humans EACH AND EVERY YEAR! If you want to protect humans from animals then alligators are the wrong focus. When you argue to eradicate dogs as strongly as you argue to kill alligators THEN I will respect your position.

[MrFlorida]

I have friends that live up north, that moved from the city to a rural area, then started complaining about the Bears, they wanted them all removed..... If you are afraid of gators, you can always move to an area that doesn't have gators.... How about California ? You will have plenty to complain about there....

[fdpaq0580]

I find it interesting, but not surprising, just how many people think the only answer is to eradicate whatever they don't like, fear or are unable to appreciate.

[Dusty_Star]

Somebody missed the news about the granny getting killed by an alligator. Previous incidents of near misses were warning signs of serious problems coming. It was just a matter of time. And that time is here.

One preventable death is too many.

Insanity is doing the same things and expecting a different result. It's time to do something different so we avoid another unnecessary death.
Get rid of every alligator now. There are plenty elsewhere. Sad that action wasn't taken already, and someone would still be alive.

This is a community of humans, not a zoo. Alligators are a real danger to all of us. Removing them would make this a safer place to live and enjoy. Leaving them here will only lead to another death.

I dare everyone who says "leave them here" to go the the person's funeral, and look their family in their eyes and tell them how alligators are more important than human life. More important than their loved one. Stand there and watch the family cry. Feel their grief. Then tell them how she should have known better. See how that goes.

I agree with your take on this issue. I think that the rules regarding the preservation of the alligators dates to the 1970s when they were in need of protection. Since that time they have multiplied enormously. It is 50 years later & the situation has changed. The rules need to be updated to reflect changing realities. Allow hunting. Actively remove alligators from residential communities - especially communities of seniors many of whom might develop issues - vision issues of seeing the danger, mobility issues of being able to get out of the way of danger, cognitive issues of recognizing hazardous situations.
Leaving outdated rules in place is just laziness & is inviting tragedies.

[ThirdOfFive]

I find it interesting, but not surprising, just how many people think the only answer is to eradicate whatever they don't like, fear or are unable to appreciate.
Maybe not surprising, but definitely disappointing. You can’t blame a critter for being what it is. Alligators are perfectly happy being left alone in or near their watery habitats. It is the stupidity of people that is the danger, not the habits of the alligators.

[coffeebean]

Yeah. One day someone on Red Fox or Gray Fox golf courses may be lunch or dinner to one. They are every where out there.

For our non-floridian transplants... those are NOT bullfrogs croaking in the bushes. Alligators sound like bull frogs. They can travel 20 plus miles during mating season. They can eat kids, dogs and adults. They are not cute fur babies.

I would like to see all the gators here relocated. This is now a residential community. Sorry for the gators that were here first but......survival of the fittest. Humans rule.

[coffeebean]

I don't care whether or not gators were here before humans. If they are dangerous, they should be removed. I don't care if they eat them, make luggage out of them or whatever as long as they take them out of populated areas. I like trees but I am not a tree hugger. If a tree needs to be taken down in order to make a home, so be it. Someone mentioned birds of prey snatching up domestic cats that are allowed to roam. Sorry, but pet cats should stay in the home or be supervised by it's owner like a dog. No, I would not bother with birds of prey unless they became dangerous to humans. I don't want bears roaming the Villages, just because they were here first. I do not care who or what was here first. If I purchase a home, I don't want wildlife endangering my family or friends, period. And I have no intention of moving some place else "if I don't like it." I love wildlife and I love trees and landscapes, but if I want to build a home on my property anywhere, it doesn't matter what was there first.
The gator goes, not granny.

Survival of the fittest. Humans are the fittest. Relocate the gators.I wish these prehistoric reptiles became extinct like their ancestors long ago. Then we would not have to worry about these predators.

[coffeebean]

Cars are more dangerous to humans than alligators so by your logic, cars go.
Alcohol is more dangerous to humans than alligators so by your logic, alcohol goes.
Dogs are more dangerous to humans than alligators so by your logic, dogs go.
Bicycles, golf carts, peanuts ...

OR, humans wise up and don't do stupid things and then they all can stay.

Your analogies are just silly.

[coffeebean]

There have been ZERO Gator deaths in the Villages to date. They must be doing something right!

That is just being lucky. This is an accident waiting to happen here.

[coffeebean]

The solution to the alligator "problem" is the same as the solution to the other, off-topic problems: Don't put yourself in an obviously dangerous situation. Don't stand on the tracks while a train is approaching is more than just grammatically the same as don't stand on the shoreline while an alligator is approaching.

Just curious - why do you think that disguising an accusation as a question makes a good argument?

In answer to your accusation, I don't value an alligator's life over an human life. If I was there at the time and had a weapon with me there is no question which of the two I would have used the weapon on.

But that isn't the situation now, it isn't an alligator life vs. human life situation. The question now is whether alligators in their natural habitat can coexist with humans? Do we need to kill all the alligators to make humans safe? Over the last 75 years there has been fewer than one death by alligator every three years. Of all the things out there that can kill us, alligators seem to be relatively safe. When you consider the circumstances behind many of those deaths (wading in to retrieve a disc or golf ball, standing on the shore watching the alligator approach) it seems the humans took the action to put themselves in danger - were it not for clearly poor choices the humans made, they would not have been killed.

If an animal is threatening a human then the animal should lose. If a human puts themselves into a dangerous situation then it's hard to blame the animal. Killing animals to make it impossible for humans to make bad choices is just wrong.

An alligator kills a human about once every three years. By contrast, dogs kill between 30 and 40 humans EACH AND EVERY YEAR! If you want to protect humans from animals then alligators are the wrong focus. When you argue to eradicate dogs as strongly as you argue to kill alligators THEN I will respect your position.

Dogs in The Villages are supposed to be leashed; tethered to their owner. Alligators are free to roam wherever their hearts desire.

[Bill14564]

Dogs in The Villages are supposed to be leashed; tethered to their owner. Alligators are free to roam wherever their hearts desire.

Leashed, tethered, muzzled, indoors, outdoors, in the car, very small, too nice, ..... none of that matters.

If protecting human life is the most important consideration then an animal that causes deaths at a rate 90 times what an alligator does certainly needs to be dealt with first.

No alligators have killed a person in the Villages, can the same be said for dogs, have there been zero deaths by dog bite in the Villages? (I really don't know that answer)

[jimjamuser]

*Maybe* it was necessary to remove the one alligator who *might* now see humans as food but it certainly wasn't necessary to remove them all. (Note that they removed alligators from the entire community; there were not four alligators in one pond). The needless removal, and likely destruction, of a native animal behaving naturally is sad. I really hate the idea but maybe it is necessary to put fences around all the ponds to keep the foolish people away.

We enjoy looking for alligators in the ponds here.

Things to learn:
- There are alligators in the fresh water in Florida
- Walking your small dog at the edge of the water is dangerous
- Standing and watching an alligator swim across the pond towards you and your dog is a really bad idea
I disagree. No gator that BIG should be ALLOWED to live NEAR dense human communities. Should tigers and lions be allowed to roam free in the Villages. What about freshwater sharks? Are they OK?

[jimjamuser]

How do think they can be removed? How do you keep them from coming back?
There are specialized wildlife people that remove LARGE, LARGE gators. It just takes a phone call. You remove the ones over 4ft from a large area and barring droughts, you have 2 years of NOT worrying about dog kills and elderly woman being HUNTED AND KILLED.
.........To all those that feel for the plight of the poor, poor Winston 19 ft gators of the world JUST IMAGINE the SHEER TERROR experienced by that poor 85 year old lady. Now imagine the staff of say the Villages calling her relatives to say SORRY RELATIVES, "We cared MORE about Winston the prehistoric human eating KILLER than your insignificant 85-year-old relative that just became GATOR breakfast."
......And that happened in daylight......GATORS are far more aggressive at night. I can't understand ANYONE that would NOT want the lakes of the Villages hunted and hunted until all GATORS over 4 ft were eliminated. You can't possibly eliminate them all.......but you damn SURE can eliminate all those over 4 ft with just a LITTLE bit of willpower. That lady was from a generation of Americans that defeated the Nazis in WW2. You mean to tell me that our current generation does NOT have the willpower to defeat and eliminate any and all over 4 ft GATORS in The Villages. Think of LARGE gators as the Gestapo of the Villages lakes and low areas.
........I can't believe that anyone would trade HUMAN life for reptile life. I am NOT saying turn gators into endangered species - I am saying remove the LARGER human-killing ones from dense human communities like OURS. It IS one of those famous "no-brainers" where there is NOT 2 sides of the story!!!!!!!

[jimjamuser]

There have been ZERO Gator deaths in the Villages to date. They must be doing something right!
They...WHO? The gators or the Village management? The answer, my friend, is actually neither. What if the 85-year-old DEAD woman was your or my mother? Then what? Is there still going to be some academic discussion about which came 1st the Gator or the human? It does NOT, matter, The Gator as a species can continue functioning fine in Florida even if ALL Gators over 4 ft were REMOVED from densely populated elderly communities like The Villages. it is a win / win. No animal loses - the Gator continues to exist JUST NOT BIG, VERY BIG HUMAN AND DOG endangering ones in The Villages. And HUMANS AND DOGS do NOT lose either.
........A big win / win.

[jimjamuser]

Really? Not sure if you are being satiric.
Like I said earlier, we live in a populated community of seniors, some very are very slow physically and mentally. If you wish to own a gator, then you should take responsibility for it and keep it from harming others. Same with the few poisonous snakes here. I suppose by some folks logic, mosquitoes should be left alone and they should not spray here, so we don't cause them any harm. Rats should be left to live in our attics. A few bears aren't going to harm anyone, right?
C'mon folks, get some common sense. Quit trying to compare ridiculous ideas such as the dangers of car, motorcycles, dogs, birds, peanuts, etc. to REAL dangers. You all did leave out accidental drowning in the many/many swimming pools in the Villages.
There is NO common sense reason for a 'gator to stay in the Villages. We do not live in a zoo or a wildlife sanctuary. And please stop feeding the coyotes, because they are being encouraged to stay around residential areas.
Once again, another BLUE MOON..........I agree with this post !
......And coyotes have killed many small children over time in the US. Wild animals should NOT be fed, PERIOD. Small wild birds.......OK. Nothing larger.

[jimjamuser]

My apologies to the naturalists, but allowing any animals who can kill humans in close proximity is wrong. Alligators are certainly not endangered. Thus, they should be treated like fish. Allow licensed hunters to harvest all in neighborhood ponds over a set size. Feed the poor with the catch. Hunting will make alligators fear humans and we will all be safer.
Photo of my front door…glad the lights were on!
PERFECT EXAMPLE. Perfect post. There really is NO, ZERO way that anyone could possibly come back and LOGICALLY challenge that post. Really IS the "end of the story". The large Winston POTENTIALLY human killing machines called GATORS over 4 ft need to be REMOVED FROM RETIREMENT COMMUNITIES.
........There may be some good environmental benefits associated with small Gators under 4 ft in the Florida lake systems. They may keep down the trash fish or keep the turtle population in check. People in the Villages can look at the smaller sisters of Winston and it should be just as interesting and people would probably see more small ones around if the BIG ones were removed. Again a win / win. Plus, I believe that LARGE Gators are cannibalistic toward smaller Gators. (and small dogs and humans)

[jimjamuser]

So funny!!!
Too GOOD. I wish that I had thought of that one! That might make it into the top ten of all-time TOTV quips.

[jimjamuser]

Now that is a hard thing to say….

Like so many other topics that get discussed here, the preconceived notions come to the fore. If one is comparing dangerous critter to dangerous critter, then the most dangerous critter on the planet happens to not be allligators at all, or even reptiles in general, but—MOSQUITOES!

It is common preconception though. I still get comments from people up north about the dangers of living in Florida, the top two being (in their minds anyway) the killer heat and deadly reptiles. But neither one is a danger if you use a little common sense. As tragic as the death of this woman was, the fact of the matter was that she was trying to rescue her dog from the alligator! Her mistake, and it turned out to be a deadly one, was that as I understand it her and her dog got too close to the water.

All that is needed is a little common sense. Don’t allow Rover to get too close to the water. Dogs are on the menu, people aren’t. Don’t look for your ball if you hit it into the weeds adjacent to a shoreline. Obey the signs that say don’t feed the alligators. Don’t go for romantic moonlight walks along any large(r) pond or body of water, especially not with Rover tagging along. Don’t get too close to that basking alligator so you can get the perfect picture (unless of course your idea of a “perfect picture” is a close-up of teeth). Use your head. Give the gators their space. Both species will be far happier.
You can Google the actual attack. The video I saw stopped after the Woman was knocked down as the VERY LARGE Gator charged out of the water (very fast on land) at the dog and then turned its attention to the woman. It must have gotten to brutal to show after that. I suggest that all the bunny-hugging Winston-lovers WATCH that video and put themselves in her place on the ground with this GIANT dinosaur-like creature with a 2 ft long open jaw up to her face ready to pounce. I won't ever forget that video!

[jimjamuser]

People learn to be smart! Stay away from walking by the ponds. Ponds are there for beauty and not to walk along especially with a small dog.
Look what happened to our Buffalo. Someone stupidly reached over the fence to feed them and was bitten. All the buffalo were removed because of this stupid action. We loved watching the Buffalo.
People smarten up!!!
As I heard the story, children went inside the fence to "PET" the Buffalo and the herd leader charged. Either way, that IS right that it was a shame and a GREAT illustration of HUMAN ignorance concerning animals and the potential danger that they can present.

[jimjamuser]

Oh please, if a dog attacks should we remove all dogs? All raccoons? Snakes? All everything? The woman did a stupid thing when she walked her little dog next to a pond. Period. How she could live as long as she did and not know that you don't walk dogs next to ponds is beyond me. Killing all the gators was a stunt to make people feel good, there will be plenty more where they came from.
Look at the video. The gator comes quickly from far away in the water with only his eyes above water. The Gator was swimming from behind and to the side of the woman. She was NOT looking that way. The Gator made a silent STALK that would have FOOLED men, women, and children. It was an ULTIMATE PREDATOR move with centuries of DNA contributing to the deadly skill of something with a snake-sized brain.

[jimjamuser]

Oh please, if a dog attacks should we remove all dogs? All raccoons? Snakes? All everything? The woman did a stupid thing when she walked her little dog next to a pond. Period. How she could live as long as she did and not know that you don't walk dogs next to ponds is beyond me. Killing all the gators was a stunt to make people feel good, there will be plenty more where they came from.
They did NOT kill all the Gators. That is impossible. There are too many little ones. They took out the BIG ones that threaten humans and dogs. And yes, it was a classic. " shut the barn door AFTER the horse is gone" situation. Let us HOPE against ALL hopes that the Staff and Owners of the Villages LEARN from this incident and take APPROPRIATE ACTION and remove ALL large (over 4 ft) Gators in the Villages Bubble!
......I wonder if I SHOULD hold my BREATH ?????????

[jimjamuser]

Alligators were NOT here first. Maybe in Florida, but NOT HERE.
Look at any older satellite image where there were huge open fields before TV was built. No ponds. No alligators.
Then TV was built. Houses, roads, rec centers... and new ponds. Then the alligators moved in.
Alligators invaded our neighborhoods, not the other way around.
One would think the developer hates the bad publicity of allowing alligators to remain here to kill people. It costs him money in lost sales. A lawyer might even win a lawsuit based upon allowing a situation to exist that's known to be dangerous to humans, where they're likely to be harmed by failing to remove the alligators. That's big money.
If it's ok to remove one, than it's ok to remove all of them. Trappers can take every one they find. That can't happen soon enough.
I agree. Great post !

[Normal]

The Villages has an exceptional track record of NO Gator attacks. They continue to do well in keeping everyone safe. What amazes me is the continued disrespect of common sense around wildlife. You can’t continue to remove wildlife and expect them not to return. Alligators migrate a lot. When you can figure out how to control anoles, you may be into figuring out their larger cousins.

Meanwhile, if you remove one, it still gives you no assurance that another one doesn’t come into the area the following day or night.

[PugMom]

I agree! Did you know that birds of prey kill domestic cats allowed to roam free? We need to kill all the bald eagles that fly around The Villages. They present a danger, and they need to be removed. This is a residential community, not a wildlife sanctuary.

excellent reply. BUT---OP needs to realize some villages ARE next to wildlife sanctuaries. we knew this going in & chose our location because of that. maybe relocation of the residents in order??

[PugMom]

As I heard the story, children went inside the fence to "PET" the Buffalo and the herd leader charged. Either way, that IS right that it was a shame and a GREAT illustration of HUMAN ignorance concerning animals and the potential danger that they can present.

let's not forget the parents who put their kid over the fence to pet the gator :oops: :a20:

[Rainger99]

You can Google the actual attack. The video I saw stopped after the Woman was knocked down as the VERY LARGE Gator charged out of the water (very fast on land) at the dog and then turned its attention to the woman. It must have gotten to brutal to show after that. I suggest that all the bunny-hugging Winston-lovers WATCH that video and put themselves in her place on the ground with this GIANT dinosaur-like creature with a 2 ft long open jaw up to her face ready to pounce. I won't ever forget that video!

This is the video of the incident. It stops just before the woman is attacked but it is still terrifying so if it upsets you, please don't watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kprXUlml1-I

[PugMom]

I have friends that live up north, that moved from the city to a rural area, then started complaining about the Bears, they wanted them all removed..... If you are afraid of gators, you can always move to an area that doesn't have gators.... How about California ? You will have plenty to complain about there....

i've seen more bears up in Ct., than here. the only 1 i saw in Wildwood was on the chanel 6 news. :sigh:

[Maker]

When I read some of the posts against the concept of removing every alligator, and reasoning based upon cars, dogs, birds, etc... It means you have no valid response to the question at hand. Those other animals have nothing to do with the alligator issue.
Trying to change the discussion into off-topic areas is an old trick used when people have no other legitimate things to say. A politician says deny, deny, deny, then deflect, deflect, deflect.

Don't say "they were here first" because they were not. Humans built the ponds, and then alligators invaded those ponds. Even if the "here first" argument was valid, humans are here now.

I say a human life wins over any alligator. Alligators present an actual and potential risk to killing people. Time to address that problem.

If you oppose removal of the alligators.. Say it, and state your reasons why. Publicly state why an alligator life is worth more than a human life. Leave out dogs and cars and "stupid" people. State why this community should allow alligators to remain here as a threat to humans.

[Garywt]

I don’t think I have responded to this and yes anyone or thing killed by an alligator is tragic but everyone can be avoided. Just stay away, look from afar. People walking along ponds, fishing in ponds, sitting next to ponds are just asking for trouble. Gators will leave you alone if you are not at their habitat.

[Byte1]

I find it interesting, but not surprising, just how many people think the only answer is to eradicate whatever they don't like, fear or are unable to appreciate.

Oh, do you mean like banning guns?

[Byte1]

The solution to the alligator "problem" is the same as the solution to the other, off-topic problems: Don't put yourself in an obviously dangerous situation. Don't stand on the tracks while a train is approaching is more than just grammatically the same as don't stand on the shoreline while an alligator is approaching.

Just curious - why do you think that disguising an accusation as a question makes a good argument?

In answer to your accusation, I don't value an alligator's life over an human life. If I was there at the time and had a weapon with me there is no question which of the two I would have used the weapon on.
Reading those comments, I would "question which of the two."
But that isn't the situation now, it isn't an alligator life vs. human life situation. The question now is whether alligators in their natural habitat can coexist with humans?
"natural habitat?" You mean, man made don't you?
Do we need to kill all the alligators to make humans safe? Over the last 75 years there has been fewer than one death by alligator every three years. Of all the things out there that can kill us, alligators seem to be relatively safe. When you consider the circumstances behind many of those deaths (wading in to retrieve a disc or golf ball, standing on the shore watching the alligator approach) it seems the humans took the action to put themselves in danger - were it not for clearly poor choices the humans made, they would not have been killed.

If an animal is threatening a human then the animal should lose. If a human puts themselves into a dangerous situation then it's hard to blame the animal. Killing animals to make it impossible for humans to make bad choices is just wrong.

An alligator kills a human about once every three years. By contrast, dogs kill between 30 and 40 humans EACH AND EVERY YEAR! If you want to protect humans from animals then alligators are the wrong focus. When you argue to eradicate dogs as strongly as you argue to kill alligators THEN I will respect your position.

So, if I have my CCW at the time I witness an attack, what do you think would happen if I shot and killed the 'gator? I would, but everyone knows what would happen to me legally, right?
I believe it is ridiculous for folks to say, if you don't like or fear 'gators then you should move somewhere else. I guess if I don't like rattlesnakes or other poisonous snakes, I should not have them removed or killed, right? I should move because they were here first? How about coyotes? They are NOT native to Florida, yet here they are running free through the Villages. Dogs have to be on lease, but coyotes are not. Most likely and most of the time they will run away from you, but if they are hungry and see your little dog on a lease, they will attempt to attack the dog. And they WILL attack people also. One attempted to attack my spouse when we lived up North and I chased it away. After that, I shot at every one of them that crossed my land. Farmers paid $500 each for coyotes shot on their farms.
I love animals, but I also respect their dangerous and wild nature. Children and seniors should not have to fear bird watching at the ponds, or fishing. This is NOT a natural habitat for alligators. They should be removed and placed in a more natural habitat or like I said before, used at footwear, luggage and/or food. We eat chickens and cattle and give it no thought. We wear leather shoes and coats made of cowhide, pig, sheep and horse hide. We also use deer skin for clothing. I am not going to cry over the removal of a reptile that I can see on National Geographic or at the 'gator farm a few miles away.
Please don't kill the bugs that invade your house, because this is their natural habitat.....:cryin2:

[coffeebean]

I don’t think I have responded to this and yes anyone or thing killed by an alligator is tragic but everyone can be avoided. Just stay away, look from afar. People walking along ponds, fishing in ponds, sitting next to ponds are just asking for trouble. Gators will leave you alone if you are not at their habitat.

What about the gators that come calling at your front door? Will they leave you alone as you walk out your front door?

[fdpaq0580]

What about the gators that come calling at your front door? Will they leave you alone as you walk out your front door?

If one ever shows up at your door, give it a try, then report back with your findings.

[fdpaq0580]

Oh, do you mean like banning guns?

The thought of guns, whether to ban or not, never entered my mind. I do find it interesting that guns is the first, and apparently the only thing that you related to. I make no judgment, just find it interesting.

[fdpaq0580]

So, if I have my CCW at the time I witness an attack, what do you think would happen if I shot and killed the 'gator? I would, but everyone knows what would happen to me legally, right? :

Actually, I have no idea what would happen to you if you used your legal weapon to save a life. I am guessing you would be hailed as a hero. Probably, you would be interviewed by the media, end up on a few talk shows, and promote good, sensible, safe and legal gun ownership.

[Happydaz]

If you want to lower the death rate of animals killing humans you might want to look at eradicating all the bees, wasps and hornets. They kill around 56 people per year in the USA. Also dogs kill 30-50 people every year. Alcohol kills 100,000 Americans each year. Drug overdoses kill 100,000 Americans each year. Alligators kill 1 person per year.(Range 1-4) Pay attention to the real threats in your life. Remember when you get in a car you have about a 1 in 107 chance of getting killed in your lifetime in a car crash. Around 46,000 Americans die each year in automobile accidents.

[Maker]

...bees, wasps and hornets... dogs... Alcohol... overdoses... cars.

THIS thread is about alligators. It's not about deflecting the focus to other dangers. Perhaps start your own thread to discuss solutions to those other problems.
All sorts of things are made safer as new solutions are implemented once a problem is identified. Seat belts, child proof packaging, fall arrest harnesses, etc.
There is an identified problem. The most effective solution here is to get rid of every alligator.

[Bill14564]

THIS thread is about alligators. It's not about deflecting the focus to other dangers. Perhaps start your own thread to discuss solutions to those other problems.
All sorts of things are made safer as new solutions are implemented once a problem is identified. Seat belts, child proof packaging, fall arrest harnesses, etc.
There is an identified problem. The most effective solution here is to get rid of every alligator.

The identified problem is people making dangerous/foolish choices. To correct that you need to change people's behaviors. Alligators are not a risk to you or yours unless you or yours choose to put yourselves at risk. Don't make that choice.

[Happydaz]

THIS thread is about alligators. It's not about deflecting the focus to other dangers. Perhaps start your own thread to discuss solutions to those other problems.
All sorts of things are made safer as new solutions are implemented once a problem is identified. Seat belts, child proof packaging, fall arrest harnesses, etc.
There is an identified problem. The most effective solution here is to get rid of every alligator.

Don’t agree with your solution. There are 5,000,000 alligators in the USA. To get rid of every alligator would be an enormous and extremely expensive undertaking. Your argument is emotionally charged and lacks rational thinking.

[Maker]

The identified problem is people making dangerous/foolish choices. To correct that you need to change people's behaviors. Alligators are not a risk to you or yours unless you or yours choose to put yourselves at risk. Don't make that choice.

There are plenty of paths right next to the ponds. A reasonable person would assume that they are safe because someone with superior knowledge of this place chose to place them there. But they are not safe. Far from it. You even support that fact by saying everyone needs to change their behaviors. Simply by walking on a path you assumed to be safe, you are putting yourself at risk.

What about alligators wandering away from the ponds looking for food? Lurking hidden in unexpected places? What behavior do we need to change for that?

Changing behaviors isn't a practical solution, especially when guests and children are considered.

[Bill14564]

There are plenty of paths right next to the ponds. A reasonable person would assume that they are safe because someone with superior knowledge of this place chose to place them there. But they are not safe. Far from it. You even support that fact by saying everyone needs to change their behaviors. Simply by walking on a path you assumed to be safe, you are putting yourself at risk.

What about alligators wandering away from the ponds looking for food? Lurking hidden in unexpected places? What behavior do we need to change for that?

Changing behaviors isn't a practical solution, especially when guests and children are considered.

One news article about a Villager being killed (or even attacked) while walking on a path... just one.

One news article about an alligator killing a person when the person was not within three feet of the water... (there are no paths that close to water than are not protected by a fence or railing)

I suspect the closest you will find is an article about a car crash caused by hitting an alligator walking across a road late at night in a very rural area.

Give your guests and children more credit - they avoid any number of dangerous behaviors every single day (I would list some, such as not walking into moving traffic, but you would claim they are off-topic)

I agree with the statement from the other poster: Your argument is emotionally charged and lacks rational thinking.

[Maker]

Don’t agree with your solution. There are 5,000,000 alligators in the USA. To get rid of every alligator would be an enormous and extremely expensive undertaking. Your argument is emotionally charged and lacks rational thinking.

Thank you for pointing out that removing a few hundred alligators from the villages ponds would have zero impact on the total population elsewhere.

Or is this another attempt to deflect to some other conversation by making a wildly unrelated statement about the entire coountry? This is about the villages only. A retirement community of mostly older people and lots of visitors who are generally unaware of the dangers posed by doing routine things such as walking on designated pathways.

[ThirdOfFive]

THIS thread is about alligators. It's not about deflecting the focus to other dangers. Perhaps start your own thread to discuss solutions to those other problems.
All sorts of things are made safer as new solutions are implemented once a problem is identified. Seat belts, child proof packaging, fall arrest harnesses, etc.
There is an identified problem. The most effective solution here is to get rid of every alligator.
Well, that IS a solution, all right. It could be the solution to the bee problem as well, as bees (along with their cousins wasps and hornets) kill over 50 times a many Americans each year as to alligators. We COULD eradicate all of them (hugely expensive and no guaranteed result), which would certainly solve the problem of them killing humans. Just like gators. 'Course, the orange grove farmers would suffer a giant chomp to the shorts, but hey! It is all about The Childerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrn after all...

Most children learn early on that poking a stick into the nest of paper wasps can net a whole lot of undesirable consequences. Or bees for that matter. As a young lad I once tried to capture bumblebees in one of those old fashioned glass milk bottles. Pretty good scheme actually; I'd sneak up on a bumblebee feeding on a clover blossom, put the bottle slowly right behind the bee, then push the bottle forward so the bee was in the neck of the bottle and at the same time clapping a rag over the end of the bottle. It worked for the first couple of bees until I missed the third one, who took umbrage at my outrageousness and nailed my arm. I dropped the bottle and ran, not even looking back to see if the other two had escaped the bottle and were in hot pursuit. Apparently they weren't: a bumblebee can fly at over 10 mph and I doubt a 7-year-old can run that fast, even as scared as I was. But--lesson learned. I didn't blame the bumblebees. They're more than happy to leave you alone as long as you don't mess with them.

So too with gators. Several of the executive courses I've played on have gator-infested water. The fourth hole on Chula Vista for example, which plays over the water and where I've seen gators at least twice. The 6th and 7th on El Diablo both have fairways that play along the water, the seventh for at least 100 yards, and I've seen gators on both. I've played balls hit within a few yards of the shoreline. I don't do anything crazy, like poking around for balls in weeds that adjoin the shoreline (more for snakes than gators, but you never know). I give them their space. They seem more than happy to give me mine.

We can go on finding something else to blame for our own stupidity for only so long.

[Two Bills]

I just don't understand why some folks move to such a dangerous place as The Villages!
Then complain, and want to change the environment!

[Bill14564]

Thank you for pointing out that removing a few hundred alligators from the villages ponds would have zero impact on the total population elsewhere.

Or is this another attempt to deflect to some other conversation by making a wildly unrelated statement about the entire coountry? This is about the villages only. A retirement community of mostly older people and lots of visitors who are generally unaware of the dangers posed by doing routine things such as walking on designated pathways.

What dangers are those (with actual examples please)?

Anecdotal evidence: Villagers complain about everything from "chemtrails" in the sky to people just standing in the dancing areas of the squares. There have certainly been a number of complaints about golf carts endangering bicyclists and bicyclist endangering pedestrians. What I cannot remember ever seeing was a post about alligators endangering anyone on the trails. This doesn't prove a negative but since the locals are so quick to provide evidence, the lack thereof is telling.

[Whitley]

I would like to state that my fear of alligators was one of the reasons I was hesitant about moving to the Villages. This is an awful, tragic thing that happened and totally avoidable. Developments with dense populations, especially vulnerable populations like seniors or children, should remove them and locate them elsewhere.

90%+ of removals entails killing the animal.

[Normal]

I’ll put money down that more Villagers have died of natural causes than alligator attacks. Let me enjoy the views of nature that may include alligators. You can move back where you came from.

[Maker]

I’ll put money down that more Villagers have died of natural causes than alligator attacks. Let me enjoy the views of nature that may include alligators. You can move back where you came from.

Put the alligators back to where THEY came from. There were no alligators in any pond that was dug while building the villages.
If you want to see an invasive species, go to a swamp in Louisiana.

[Happydaz]

This whole thread is getting ridiculous. Let’s face it, no one is going to remove all the alligators from the Villages. Someone would have to be delusional to think they could get this accomplished. I think we are really talking about irrational fear here and no amount of rational discussion will solve this issue.

[Rainger99]

Let’s face it, no one is going to remove all the alligators from the Villages. Someone would have to be delusional to think they could get this accomplished.

I agree that we could probably never get rid of all of them. But just because you can't reach perfection doesn't mean that you shouldn't try to make the attempt. It seems that when there is an attack (whether on a person or an animal) the alligators are trapped and removed rather quickly. Most people would prefer to have them removed before the attack. Hence, the title of this thread.

[ThirdOfFive]

This whole thread is getting ridiculous. Let’s face it, no one is going to remove all the alligators from the Villages. Someone would have to be delusional to think they could get this accomplished. I think we are really talking about irrational fear here and no amount of rational discussion will solve this issue.
Agreed.

One thing that IS being accomplished here however is to give some sterling examples of just what kind of "thinking" has America ensnared today. Excusing the stupidity by totally removing the whatever-it-is that people are being stupid about. It sure does seem to cover a lot of things in America 2023.

[Normal]

Put the alligators back to where THEY came from. There were no alligators in any pond that was dug while building the villages.
If you want to see an invasive species, go to a swamp in Louisiana.
What was good for the goose, is just as good for the gander. Perhaps those who can’t deal with the native Florida habitat should relocate to where they were from? There have always been gators south of 44. Lakes Okahumpa and Deaton have always been full of them.

[JMintzer]

I disagree. No gator that BIG should be ALLOWED to live NEAR dense human communities. Should tigers and lions be allowed to roam free in the Villages. What about freshwater sharks? Are they OK?

I have no problem with them, since they're only found in Australia and Asia...

And tigers and lions are predators to man. Alligators, are not, as a rule...

[JMintzer]

Number of deaths/year by animals...

Deadliest animals to humans 2022 | Statista (https://www.statista.com/statistics/448169/deadliest-creatures-in-the-world-by-number-of-human-deaths/)

Mosquitoes are #1 with approx 1,000,000 deaths/year...

Oddly, Alligators don't even make this list...

[JMintzer]

So, if I have my CCW at the time I witness an attack, what do you think would happen if I shot and killed the 'gator? I would, but everyone knows what would happen to me legally, right?

In FL? You'd probably receive a medal...

I believe it is ridiculous for folks to say, if you don't like or fear 'gators then you should move somewhere else. I guess if I don't like rattlesnakes or other poisonous snakes, I should not have them removed or killed, right? I should move because they were here first? How about coyotes? They are NOT native to Florida, yet here they are running free through the Villages. Dogs have to be on lease, but coyotes are not. Most likely and most of the time they will run away from you, but if they are hungry and see your little dog on a lease, they will attempt to attack the dog. And they WILL attack people also. One attempted to attack my spouse when we lived up North and I chased it away. After that, I shot at every one of them that crossed my land. Farmers paid $500 each for coyotes shot on their farms.

Habitat: Coyotes are native to North America. Once strictly a western species, coyotes now occur throughout the eastern United States. Coyotes began expanding their range into northwestern Florida in the 1970s, and are now considered to be a naturalized species in all 67 Florida counties.

I love animals, but I also respect their dangerous and wild nature. Children and seniors should not have to fear bird watching at the ponds, or fishing. This is NOT a natural habitat for alligators. They should be removed and placed in a more natural habitat or like I said before, used at footwear, luggage and/or food.

This place is is full of wetlands and swamps. Which is EXACTLY their natural habitat...

We eat chickens and cattle and give it no thought. We wear leather shoes and coats made of cowhide, pig, sheep and horse hide. We also use deer skin for clothing. I am not going to cry over the removal of a reptile that I can see on National Geographic or at the 'gator farm a few miles away.
Please don't kill the bugs that invade your house, because this is their natural habitat.....:cryin2:

Inside my home is NOT a natural habitat for bugs... Maybe yours is, but who am I to judge?

They hunt alligators in the swamps all of the time... I'd love me a pair of alligator boots! Plus, I've had alligator tail on multiple occasions...

[JMintzer]

Thank you for pointing out that removing a few hundred alligators from the villages ponds would have zero impact on the total population elsewhere.

Or is this another attempt to deflect to some other conversation by making a wildly unrelated statement about the entire coountry? This is about the villages only. A retirement community of mostly older people and lots of visitors who are generally unaware of the dangers posed by doing routine things such as walking on designated pathways.

You seem to forget that they would be back in a matter of months...

[Maker]

You seem to forget that they would be back in a matter of months...

It would be ongoing. Easy to find them initially, but eventually there would be few, if none. Start in the new areas of the south (where there are none yet in the new ponds) and work north. Recheck as needed.

[JMintzer]

It would be ongoing. Easy to find them initially, but eventually there would be few, if none. Start in the new areas of the south (where there are none yet in the new ponds) and work north. Recheck as needed.

The fact that you actually think there are no gators in the south is pretty funny.

The amount of wetlands there dwarfs the that of the northern areas... To quote Dr. Ian Malcom: "Life finds a way..."

https://scrappynaturalist.files.wordpress.com/2021/03/ianmalcolm.gif

[spinner1001]

… the new areas of the south (where there are none yet in the new ponds) …

No.

[Two Bills]

There are plenty of paths right next to the ponds. A reasonable person would assume that they are safe because someone with superior knowledge of this place chose to place them there. But they are not safe. Far from it. You even support that fact by saying everyone needs to change their behaviors. Simply by walking on a path you assumed to be safe, you are putting yourself at risk.
What about alligators wandering away from the ponds looking for food? Lurking hidden in unexpected places? What behavior do we need to change for that?
Changing behaviors isn't a practical solution, especially when guests and children are considered.

As my brother who lives there would say, regarding dangerous wild life.
"Don't ever go to Australia mate, you'll Go Troppo!"

[Normal]

Beautiful areas will always have their dangers. You could vacation in Australia, lay on a beach, and get eaten by a saltwater crocodile too. Gators in Florida come with the territory.

[coffeebean]

You seem to forget that they would be back in a matter of months...

Job security for the people that remove the alligators.

[Maker]

Do you know how an alligator kills? They hide. You won't see them, even when just a few feet away. You are their target, and you don't know it. They move very fast and can easily outrun humans.
When they grab onto you, their jaws clamp on with a force like a cement truck crushing your body. Dozens of ragged teeth pierce your muscles, and start to shatter your bones. The pain is incredible as you helplessly watch it all happen.
The alligator then will flip around, taking you with him. Smashing the rest of your body into the ground, breaking most of the bones in your arms and legs. That really hurts too.
All that pain is soon exceeded as the alligator bites harder into the chunk of your body he first bit into. Shatters bones, twists and attacks harder. He rips it off your body and swallows. You want to get away, but you can't - remember your leg and arm bones are broken. You are forced to watch what is going to happen next.
But things don't end there. He's still hungry and bites you somewhere else. Maybe in your side, tearing a gaping hole in your chest, extending into your stomach, ribs and lungs. The pain is far worse than anything you felt so far, or have ever imagined.
You pray the next bite is to your heart or head to finally end this.
After a minute, the pain is starting to fade, but only because you are near death.

Remember these comforting thoughts as you die: I was a stupid person for walking on a path; others said this never happens; alligators are cute to look at; and they were here first.

Make the villages safer by removing every alligator here. Start now and continue for as long as needed. If it takes years, then get started now.
I choose Human life over alligators.

[JMintzer]

Do you know how an alligator kills? They hide. You won't see them, even when just a few feet away. You are their target, and you don't know it. They move very fast and can easily outrun humans.
When they grab onto you, their jaws clamp on with a force like a cement truck crushing your body. Dozens of ragged teeth pierce your muscles, and start to shatter your bones. The pain is incredible as you helplessly watch it all happen.
The alligator then will flip around, taking you with him. Smashing the rest of your body into the ground, breaking most of the bones in your arms and legs. That really hurts too.
All that pain is soon exceeded as the alligator bites harder into the chunk of your body he first bit into. Shatters bones, twists and attacks harder. He rips it off your body and swallows. You want to get away, but you can't - remember your leg and arm bones are broken. You are forced to watch what is going to happen next.
But things don't end there. He's still hungry and bites you somewhere else. Maybe in your side, tearing a gaping hole in your chest, extending into your stomach, ribs and lungs. The pain is far worse than anything you felt so far, or have ever imagined.
You pray the next bite is to your heart or head to finally end this.
After a minute, the pain is starting to fade, but only because you are near death.

Remember these comforting thoughts as you die: I was a stupid person for walking on a path; others said this never happens; alligators are cute to look at; and they were here first.

Make the villages safer by removing every alligator here. Start now and continue for as long as needed. If it takes years, then get started now.
I choose Human life over alligators.

That sounds HORRIBLE!

Good thing it pretty much never happens...

[fdpaq0580]

Do you know how an alligator kills? They hide. You won't see them, even when just a few feet away. You are their target, and you don't know it. They move very fast and can easily outrun humans.
When they grab onto you, their jaws clamp on with a force like a cement truck crushing your body. Dozens of ragged teeth pierce your muscles, and start to shatter your bones. The pain is incredible as you helplessly watch it all happen.
The alligator then will flip around, taking you with him. Smashing the rest of your body into the ground, breaking most of the bones in your arms and legs. That really hurts too.
All that pain is soon exceeded as the alligator bites harder into the chunk of your body he first bit into. Shatters bones, twists and attacks harder. He rips it off your body and swallows. You want to get away, but you can't - remember your leg and arm bones are broken. You are forced to watch what is going to happen next.
But things don't end there. He's still hungry and bites you somewhere else. Maybe in your side, tearing a gaping hole in your chest, extending into your stomach, ribs and lungs. The pain is far worse than anything you felt so far, or have ever imagined.
You pray the next bite is to your heart or head to finally end this.
After a minute, the pain is starting to fade, but only because you are near death.

Remember these comforting thoughts as you die: I was a stupid person for walking on a path; others said this never happens; alligators are cute to look at; and they were here first.

Make the villages safer by removing every alligator here. Start now and continue for as long as needed. If it takes years, then get started now.
I choose Human life over alligators.

Hey! That was good. Very scary graphic horror story. Zombie apocalypse, but with gators, hiding under cars, in bushes, jumping from the trees. How about Gatornado? Like Sharknado, but with gators. Scary!
If you don't want to write horror stories, you could try anti-animal propaganda. "MTVGA! Kill all alligators". The truth is you are in far greater danger every time you go shopping or go out to eat. No need to over react to a very sad, but unusual incident.

[Bill14564]

...

Remember these comforting thoughts as you die: I was a stupid person for walking on a path; others said this never happens; alligators are cute to look at; and they were here first.

Make the villages safer by removing every alligator here. Start now and continue for as long as needed. If it takes years, then get started now.
I choose Human life over alligators.

That sounds HORRIBLE!

Good thing it pretty much never happens...

It has never happened in the Villages - at least no one has presented an article about it every happening when I challenged them to do that. Hard to reduce the number of alligator deaths in the Villages to less than zero.

It has also never happened on a path. People who stray off the paths in other areas have had problems, particularly when they stray off the path and to the very edge, or into, the water.

"I choose human life over alligators." Nice statement, but isn't true. With zero deaths from alligators in the Villages and zero deaths from alligators when away from the water, human life isn't part of the choice. Be honest, you want to choose killing the alligators regardless of any risk.

You (Maker) also only want to "choose human life" when it comes to alligators. You disregarded every other risk to human life that was presented, even those that result in over 90 times more deaths. Your messaging is terribly inconsistent which raises serious doubts about your true goal.

[JMintzer]

It has never happened in the Villages - at least no one has presented an article about it every happening when I challenged them to do that. Hard to reduce the number of alligator deaths in the Villages to less than zero.

It has also never happened on a path. People who stray off the paths in other areas have had problems, particularly when they stray off the path and to the very edge, or into, the water.

"I choose human life over alligators." Nice statement, but isn't true. With zero deaths from alligators in the Villages and zero deaths from alligators when away from the water, human life isn't part of the choice. Be honest, you want to choose killing the alligators regardless of any risk.

You (Maker) also only want to "choose human life" when it comes to alligators. You disregarded every other risk to human life that was presented, even those that result in over 90 times more deaths. Your messaging is terribly inconsistent which raises serious doubts about your true goal.

Actually, I was talking about FL, in general...

Earlier in this thread, I posted the actual statistics on the topic...

And his "true goal"?

My guess is they're "terribly afraid of alligators", so they want them all gone...

Hell, every time I see that picture someone posted of a banana spider on a golf cart, I want to...

https://www.drupal.org/files/project-images/nuke-from-orbit.jpg

-Ripley, from the movie "Aliens"...

[Eagle06]

Gators are a part of living in the SouthEastern United States. You can’t remove everyone of them just because they are there. Fish and Games has guidelines for removing nuisance Gators and for when to relocate or Euthanize. Be aware of your surroundings and avoid the Gators the same as you would a wild bear or rattlesnake.

[Maker]

What happens because of other animals and insects is not relevant to alligators. If you have a problem with those, start a thread about them.

In accident investigations, when there are "near misses" that have happened, it is a leading indicator that something worse is likely to happen in the future unless corrective action is taken now. I'm sure the neighbors around the 95y woman that got killed also said it would never happen. Then it did happen. I don't buy into the "it will never happen" concept, when it already has happened. We have the choice to make things safer, or wait for another incident.

[Bill14564]

What happens because of other animals and insects is not relevant to alligators. If you have a problem with those, start a thread about them.

In accident investigations, when there are "near misses" that have happened, it is a leading indicator that something worse is likely to happen in the future unless corrective action is taken now. I'm sure the neighbors around the 95y woman that got killed also said it would never happen. Then it did happen. I don't buy into the "it will never happen" concept, when it already has happened. We have the choice to make things safer, or wait for another incident.

The woman was 85 according to reports, not 95. Details matter.

OK, you don't want to talk about the absence of alligator deaths in the Villages, so how about some reports of near misses in the Villages? List a few of those near misses, and make sure they didn't happen when someone wandered OFF the pathway and towards the water's edge.

In the one interview I heard with a neighbor of the 85yo, the neighbor couldn't understand why the woman would walk her dog near the water like that. I didn't hear anyone say it would never happen. But if you did, please post a link.

"Another incident?" In the Villages it will be the FIRST incident.

It WILL happen again. Someone WILL choose to go into or near alligator-infested waters and the alligator will do what alligators do. it will have been 100% avoidable if the HUMAN had made a different choice.

Put some thought into it and be honest: You want to kill the alligators because of your irrational fear of them.

[Normal]

This post smells of someone conflating everything to make it seem like it happened right here in the Villages even though the said attack happened nowhere near our Spanish Springs or the Villages in general.

There have of course been zero attacks or deaths here in the Villages. However, there has been a large introduction of people not native to this area. Hopefully the Villages keeps it up with an incredibly great safety record!

[Maker]

The woman was 85 according to reports, not 95.
be honest: You want to kill the alligators because of your irrational fear of them.

Sorry, typo. 85 is right. An alligator killed a 85y human.

My fear? That's just stupid fiction. Grow up. Come up with a new insult.

OSHA does things to make work places safer as a result of learning new information from near miss incidents.
NHTSA makes laws about vehicle design to make things safer as a result of learning new information about accidents.
We have a way to make things safer. To ignore that is foolish.

The is no reason to believe removing the alligators here would not make this area safer. You have not said anything to refute that. It certainly wouldn't make it more risky.

I think you just want to argue. How long have you been a PETA member?

[Bill14564]

Sorry, typo. 85 is right. An alligator killed a 85y human.

My fear? That's just stupid fiction. Grow up. Come up with a new insult.

OSHA does things to make work places safer as a result of learning new information from near miss incidents.
NHTSA makes laws about vehicle design to make things safer as a result of learning new information about accidents.
We have a way to make things safer. To ignore that is foolish.

The is no reason to believe removing the alligators here would not make this area safer. You have not said anything to refute that. It certainly wouldn't make it more risky.

I think you just want to argue. How long have you been a PETA member?

If not irrational fear then what is it? Do you just hate alligators? They aren't bothering you and won't bother you unless you encroach on them. There are many places to swim in the Villages besides the retention ponds. I don't believe there has ever been an alligator attack in the Villages, much less on one of the paths. There is no rational reason to fear the alligators in the ponds yet you seem insistent on killing them. If not irrational fear then what is it?

If you want to change the subject and start talking about workplace fatalities or roadway fatalities we can do that but I guarantee there are FAR more of those than there are deaths caused by alligators.

The reason to believe that removing the alligators here would not make the area safer is the lack of any data showing the area is unsafe now.

"Doctor, it hurts when I hit my hand with a hammer."
"Well then, stop hitting your hand with a hammer."

Alligators can be deadly if you go wading or swimming in Florida ponds or stand at the edge of a pond while an alligator approaches. Well then, stay away from the edge of the ponds.

When people chose to do foolish things at the pond near Brownwood the alligator was removed and fences were erected. There are a lot more fences around the Villages now than there were four years ago. Perhaps the Villages have acted to make things safer...by making it more difficult for people to do foolish things. But it is impossible to make anything foolproof, there is always a bigger fool around.

How long have I been a PETA member? Never was, most likely never will be. It's funny that you believe that one needs to be a member of PETA to enjoy nature and to oppose the senseless killing of animals.

[Normal]

I remember coming down to Florida’s Disney World and swimming at their huge lake when it was called River Country. The gators didn’t bother me then (and there were some) and they don’t bother me now. Get a life and live it I say.

[Maker]

So if alligators never are a danger to attack, perhaps you might want to watch a replay of On Patrol Live from Sat 3/4
In Daytona Beach, a man came out of his house and there was an alligator on his porch. The man had no reason to do such a "foolish thing". He was bit bad enough to need to go to a hospital. Lucky to be alive because the alligator was likely startled. Had it been looking for a human meal, the guy would be dead.
Police called a trapper and the alligator was shot dead on live television. The reason - they are a danger to people.

But... Only stupid people have to worry? It never happens? Irrational fear?
Sure... keep saying that.

[Normal]

So if alligators never are a danger to attack, perhaps you might want to watch a replay of On Patrol Live from Sat 3/4
In Daytona Beach, a man came out of his house and there was an alligator on his porch. The man had no reason to do such a "foolish thing". He was bit bad enough to need to go to a hospital. Lucky to be alive because the alligator was likely startled. Had it been looking for a human meal, the guy would be dead.
Police called a trapper and the alligator was shot dead on live television. The reason - they are a danger to people.

But... Only stupid people have to worry? It never happens? Irrational fear?
Sure... keep saying that.

Like car accidents (Wait, those happen a whole lot more), stove top fires (Wait, those happen a whole lot more) falling off of a ladder at home (Wait, that happens a whole lot more), dog bites (Wait, those happen a whole lot more) and choking on food (Wait, that happens a whole lot more), ingrown toenails…

I recommend the next time you see the gator you can’t stand: jump in with a Bowie knife, wrestle the culprit, gut it, skin it on shore, leave it out to dry, use the bones for a fire, slow cook the meat and eat it slowly staring down all other trespassing varmints while you relax on shore…. It will be a warning to all those coming for you.

Never run from fear or it can get you from behind, always look towards danger so you know how to react.

[coffeebean]

This post smells of someone conflating everything to make it seem like it happened right here in the Villages even though the said attack happened nowhere near our Spanish Springs or the Villages in general.

There have of course been zero attacks or deaths here in the Villages. However, there has been a large introduction of people not native to this area. Hopefully the Villages keeps it up with an incredibly great safety record!

What exactly is The Villages doing to keep everyone safe from gator attacks? Seems like nothing to me if gators can arrive at your front door and can sun themselves in full view of anyone who can see.

I lived in a master planned community in south Florida for several years and our home was on a very large man made lake which was part of the water management system. There were zero gators in our lakes/ponds because the pipes had large grates to keep gators out. I lived in the community for 11 years (five years on that beautiful lake) and never saw one gator. It can be done.

[Bill14564]

What exactly is The Villages doing to keep everyone safe from gator attacks? Seems like nothing to me if gators can arrive at your front door and can sun themselves in full view of anyone who can see.

I lived in a master planned community in south Florida for several years and our home was on a very large man made lake which was part of the water management system. There were zero gators in our lakes/ponds because the pipes had large grates to keep gators out. I lived in the community for 11 years (five years on that beautiful lake) and never saw one gator. It can be done.

Alligators are sunning themselves at your front door by swimming through the pipes?????

How many alligators have you seen at your front door?

Given your (and other's) concerns, perhaps that master planned community in South Florida is a better fit for you?

[fdpaq0580]

So if alligators never are a danger to attack, perhaps you might want to watch a replay of On Patrol Live from Sat 3/4
In Daytona Beach, a man came out of his house and there was an alligator on his porch. The man had no reason to do such a "foolish thing". He was bit bad enough to need to go to a hospital. Lucky to be alive because the alligator was likely startled. Had it been looking for a human meal, the guy would be dead.
Police called a trapper and the alligator was shot dead on live television. The reason - they are a danger to people.

But... Only stupid people have to worry? It never happens? Irrational fear?
Sure... keep saying that.

I did not see that bit of "entertainment " programming. From what you describe, the person stepped out without checking his surroundings and walked blindly into a dangerous situation. It could have been any kind of animal, gator, snake, coyote, dog, or human. There was time for police to be called, for the police to call a trapper to analyze the situation before deciding on a course of action. Since the person, obviously not aware of the surroundings and the presence of the gator, startled the lost and confused gator and was, unfortunately, bitten, you feel this incident justifies the complete eradication of one of nature's most successful and long surviving species. WOW!
Rationalize this! Similar situation: In my garden I was unaware that a neighbor's large lab was running in my direction. The dog (could have been a gator, but in this instance it was a dog) jumped me and bit and bloodied me. By your thinking, I should be demanding the distruction and eradication of all dogs, right?
(PS, I still love dogs and alligators. Still want them in my world.)

[Maker]

Given your (and other's) concerns, perhaps that master planned community in South Florida is a better fit for you?

Maybe you should move to a swamp. You wold see lots of alligators. Then the rest of us can make our homes safer here for us, our family, and visitors.
Nobody expects to step onto their porch and have an alligator hiding there. It never happened to him before, and listening to your excuses, he was stupid, foolish, and should have known better. Hogwash. That's the exact type of way accidents happen - when a combination of conditions come together exactly right... dark, location, timing, something unexpected, past history, alertness, distractions.

We cannot do anything other than remove the gators here that would be as effective preventing an attack or killing.

I have yet to hear an articulated reason why it is SAFER to leave alligators as is, instead of removing them (here, in TV). State the reason why removing them would be less safe. How leaving them reduces the possibility of an attack. Oh, you can't; that's why.

Removing them reduces, or eliminates, the risk of an attack. No matter what actions a person, child, pet, or uneducated visitor takes. That is what humans do - make things safer for everyone's greater good.
It's wonderful that you are a brilliant person that has never had any accidents happen throughout your life. Not all are as fortunate. If you did have an accident, perhaps in a car, or with a saw, or a knife, or a broken bone... wouldn't it be better if something was done before that happened to completely prevent it?

Just discuss ALLIGATORS. Not interested in deflections to bugs, cars, dogs, etc. Not my "fears" lol or needs. Not blaming "stupid" people. Not telling people to move. Not fires, ladders, or <<anything>> else.

[Kenswing]

Maybe you should move to a swamp. You wold see lots of alligators. Then the rest of us can make our homes safer here for us, our family, and visitors.
Nobody expects to step onto their porch and have an alligator hiding there. It never happened to him before, and listening to your excuses, he was stupid, foolish, and should have known better. Hogwash. That's the exact type of way accidents happen - when a combination of conditions come together exactly right... dark, location, timing, something unexpected, past history, alertness, distractions.

We cannot do anything other than remove the gators here that would be as effective preventing an attack or killing.

I have yet to hear an articulated reason why it is SAFER to leave alligators as is, instead of removing them (here, in TV). State the reason why removing them would be less safe. How leaving them reduces the possibility of an attack. Oh, you can't; that's why.

Removing them reduces, or eliminates, the risk of an attack. No matter what actions a person, child, pet, or uneducated visitor takes. That is what humans do - make things safer for everyone's greater good.
It's wonderful that you are a brilliant person that has never had any accidents happen throughout your life. Not all are as fortunate. If you did have an accident, perhaps in a car, or with a saw, or a knife, or a broken bone... wouldn't it be better if something was done before that happened to completely prevent it?

Just discuss ALLIGATORS. Not interested in deflections to bugs, cars, dogs, etc. Not my "fears" lol or needs. Not blaming "stupid" people. Not telling people to move. Not fires, ladders, or <<anything>> else.
How can you limit this discussion to just alligators when there are so many other things that are statistically so much more dangerous? Alligator attacks in The Villages are pretty much nonexistent. Where as there are plenty of other dangers that actually happen on a regular basis. Why not tackle the things that are proven hazards in The Villages then once you fix them you can start working on the smaller things. You can’t live your life in fear.

[Bill14564]

Maybe you should move to a swamp. You wold see lots of alligators. Then the rest of us can make our homes safer here for us, our family, and visitors.
Nobody expects to step onto their porch and have an alligator hiding there. It never happened to him before, and listening to your excuses, he was stupid, foolish, and should have known better. Hogwash. That's the exact type of way accidents happen - when a combination of conditions come together exactly right... dark, location, timing, something unexpected, past history, alertness, distractions.

We cannot do anything other than remove the gators here that would be as effective preventing an attack or killing.

....

Maybe I should move??? That makes no sense at all. I like it here, just the way was when I moved here, just the way it is now. If you don't like it here then there are other places to be. I, and others, do like it here. If you are afraid to live here then there are other places to live. I, and others, are not afraid. Why did you move to Florida if you are so afraid of Florida? Why did you move here and expect "here" to change to suit you?

Nobody expects.... So far only one person has experienced and he didn't live in the Villages. A couple others have pictures due to their ring cameras. Let's kill all the alligators because one was in the wrong place at the wrong time. And yes, if the individual had turned on a light and looked first they would have seen the alligator, grabbed their phone, taken a picture, and delighted their friends. They didn't do that. They got bit and the alligator got killed.

We CAN do something more effective than removing the alligators, we can learn from your reality show and be more aware of our surroundings. We can look for alligators or snakes or dogs or raccoons or panthers before stepping onto a dark porch. We can stay back from the edge of the water. We can simply be more alert.

Killing the one alligator that bit the 85 year old woman or the three others from that development or the one from Daytona Beach or even all those in the Villages is only a temporary fix. The alligator was removed from the pond at Brownwood a few years ago and now another has taken its place. This is Florida, there are alligators, learn to live with them or live somewhere else.

And as I and others have pointed out, you have the wrong focus. Dogs cause 90 times more deaths than alligators and mosquitoes cause even more. There are around 800 deaths due to automobiles every week (100,000 TIMES more than alligators) yet I bet you rode in a car or bicycled on a road or went for a walk at least once in the last week. If it is human life you care about then spend some time fighting to save 100+ people from dog deaths or 100,000+ people from car deaths that are likely to happen before you hear of another death caused by an alligator.

[Rainger99]

They don’t always stay in the water!

A Florida homeowner opened his front door. He was bitten by an alligator. (https://www.yahoo.com/news/florida-homeowner-opened-front-door-203727432.html)

[Rainger99]

They don’t always stay in the water!

A Florida homeowner opened his front door. He was bitten by an alligator. (https://www.yahoo.com/news/florida-homeowner-opened-front-door-203727432.html)

[Bogie Shooter]

So if alligators never are a danger to attack, perhaps you might want to watch a replay of On Patrol Live from Sat 3/4
In Daytona Beach, a man came out of his house and there was an alligator on his porch. The man had no reason to do such a "foolish thing". He was bit bad enough to need to go to a hospital. Lucky to be alive because the alligator was likely startled. Had it been looking for a human meal, the guy would be dead.
Police called a trapper and the alligator was shot dead on live television. The reason - they are a danger to people.

But... Only stupid people have to worry? It never happens? Irrational fear?
Sure... keep saying that.

Daytona beach…….

[Bogie Shooter]

What exactly is The Villages doing to keep everyone safe from gator attacks? Seems like nothing to me if gators can arrive at your front door and can sun themselves in full view of anyone who can see.

I lived in a master planned community in south Florida for several years and our home was on a very large man made lake which was part of the water management system. There were zero gators in our lakes/ponds because the pipes had large grates to keep gators out. I lived in the community for 11 years (five years on that beautiful lake) and never saw one gator. It can be done.

Are they (gators) really that bad in Mallory?

[Bogie Shooter]

Maybe you should move to a swamp. You wold see lots of alligators. Then the rest of us can make our homes safer here for us, our family, and visitors.
Nobody expects to step onto their porch and have an alligator hiding there. It never happened to him before, and listening to your excuses, he was stupid, foolish, and should have known better. Hogwash. That's the exact type of way accidents happen - when a combination of conditions come together exactly right... dark, location, timing, something unexpected, past history, alertness, distractions.

We cannot do anything other than remove the gators here that would be as effective preventing an attack or killing.

I have yet to hear an articulated reason why it is SAFER to leave alligators as is, instead of removing them (here, in TV). State the reason why removing them would be less safe. How leaving them reduces the possibility of an attack. Oh, you can't; that's why.

Removing them reduces, or eliminates, the risk of an attack. No matter what actions a person, child, pet, or uneducated visitor takes. That is what humans do - make things safer for everyone's greater good.
It's wonderful that you are a brilliant person that has never had any accidents happen throughout your life. Not all are as fortunate. If you did have an accident, perhaps in a car, or with a saw, or a knife, or a broken bone... wouldn't it be better if something was done before that happened to completely prevent it?

Just discuss ALLIGATORS. Not interested in deflections to bugs, cars, dogs, etc. Not my "fears" lol or needs. Not blaming "stupid" people. Not telling people to move. Not fires, ladders, or <<anything>> else.

Did realize there are gators when you decided to come to Florida 10 months ago?

[Bogie Shooter]

They don’t always stay in the water!

A Florida homeowner opened his front door. He was bitten by an alligator. (https://www.yahoo.com/news/florida-homeowner-opened-front-door-203727432.html)

So many of these instances happen every day ???……….Florida is a big place. How many have there been?

[Byte1]

I’ll put money down that more Villagers have died of natural causes than alligator attacks. Let me enjoy the views of nature that may include alligators. You can move back where you came from.

There's a gator farm within a short drive from the Villages. Alligators should be removed, if not destroyed from the Villages for HUMAN's protection. These are "bees" or other diversions from the subject. They are a hazard that is NOT necessary to our environment here in the Villages. If the idea of coming to the Villages is to view 'gators, then just keep on going South to a gator farm or zoo. We are not going to cause the extinction of these reptiles by removing them to another location of even destroying the small population here. If these reptiles are so important then we should ban golf from areas where they might reside. After all, we don't want to disturb them, do we?

[Byte1]

So many of these instances happen every day ???……….Florida is a big place. How many have there been?

One is too many.

[kcrazorbackfan]

Spanish Lakes Fairways has removed four alligators from the retention pond where a woman was killed by an alligator earlier this week.

I called The Villages when I first got here and reported an alligator that was in a nearby retention pond. They said that they won't do anything unless it attacks either a person or an animal. So apparently, they get one attack or kill before anyone does anything about them.

Predators are cleared from lake near retirement community after woman savaged to death by reptile | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11789131/Predators-cleared-lake-near-retirement-community-woman-savaged-death-reptile.html)

Hey, the gators were here first.

Darwin’s Theory is in place for those who knows that gators are in the ponds but still feel they have to walk close to them.

[Byte1]

The woman was 85 according to reports, not 95. Details matter.

OK, you don't want to talk about the absence of alligator deaths in the Villages, so how about some reports of near misses in the Villages? List a few of those near misses, and make sure they didn't happen when someone wandered OFF the pathway and towards the water's edge.

In the one interview I heard with a neighbor of the 85yo, the neighbor couldn't understand why the woman would walk her dog near the water like that. I didn't hear anyone say it would never happen. But if you did, please post a link.

"Another incident?" In the Villages it will be the FIRST incident.

It WILL happen again. Someone WILL choose to go into or near alligator-infested waters and the alligator will do what alligators do. it will have been 100% avoidable if the HUMAN had made a different choice.

Put some thought into it and be honest: You want to kill the alligators because of your irrational fear of them.

"Irrational fear???" They are consistently seen crossing or stopped next to walking paths in the Villages. There is at least one that has been seen several times, perhaps many times running from the pond to one of the greens on one of the golf courses. They have been seen sitting in front of entrances to homes....HERE. Why should humans have to "avoid" them? We are here and we shouldn't have to "avoid" them when they are a dangerous form of wildlife infringing on our environment. There is no reasonable need to have them here. Coyotes either. So, for those that are feeding them next to the golf course (guilty ones know what I am speaking of) stop feeding the wildlife.

[Rainger99]

So many of these instances happen every day ???……….Florida is a big place. How many have there been?

Thankfully, they are very rare. But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to prevent them. Before I retired, I worked in risk management - which is trying to shut the door before the horse escapes.

If you were legally responsible for an alligator attack in the Villages, would you keep them here? Or would you remove them?

And they don’t have to be killed - the Everglades is a more suitable place for alligators. They could be transported down there. It is a long walk back - and they have short legs.

[Rainger99]

If pythons migrate to the Villages, what should we do? Get rid of them or coexist?


Python invasion has exploded out of the Everglades and into nearly all of southern Florida, new map shows (https://www.yahoo.com/news/python-invasion-exploded-everglades-nearly-120000185.html)

[Kenswing]

If pythons migrate to the Villages, what should we do? Get rid of them or coexist?


Python invasion has exploded out of the Everglades and into nearly all of southern Florida, new map shows (https://www.yahoo.com/news/python-invasion-exploded-everglades-nearly-120000185.html)

Pythons, like wild hogs are an invasive species. They should be eliminated. Alligators on the other hand were here long before we were. Just because you moved in doesn’t mean they should have to move out. If you don’t like them or are afraid of them you should have picked someplace different to live.

[JMintzer]

So many of these instances happen every day ???……….Florida is a big place. How many have there been?

I posted the stats... Ridiculously rare...

[JMintzer]

"Irrational fear???" They are consistently seen crossing or stopped next to walking paths in the Villages. Their is at least one that has been seen several times, perhaps many times running from the pond to one of the greens on one of the golf courses. They have been seen sitting in front of entrances to homes....HERE. Why should humans have to "avoid" them? We are here and we shouldn't have to "avoid" them when they are a dangerous form of wildlife infringing on our environment. There is no reasonable need to have them here. Coyotes either. So, for those that are feeding them next to the golf course (guilty ones know what I am speaking of) stop feeding the wildlife.

I had a Bobcat walk up my driveway to my front door a few months ago. Caught it on my security camera...

I DEMAND all Bobcats be removed from TV! It's the ONLY prudent thing to do!

[JMintzer]

Thankfully, they are very rare. But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to prevent them. Before I retired, I worked in risk management - which is trying to shut the door before the horse escapes.

If you were legally responsible for an alligator attack in the Villages, would you keep them here? Or would you remove them?

And they don’t have to be killed - the Everglades is a more suitable place for alligators. They could be transported down there. It is a long walk back - and they have short legs.

You do realize that TV is FULL of wetland, lakes etc, that are chuck full of alligators, don't you?

We could remove every last one in TV and they would be back in a matter of months.

[spinner1001]

No one can possibly eliminate pythons from large areas of Florida.
No one can possibly eliminate alligators from large areas of Florida.
Nature wins over the humans here.
The state government will not allow all alligators to be removed from large areas of Florida.
QED.

Gators and pythons are here to stay. Saying anything to the contrary is beer talk.

[Direwolf]

Maybe you should move to a swamp. You wold see lots of alligators. Then the rest of us can make our homes safer here for us, our family, and visitors.
Nobody expects to step onto their porch and have an alligator hiding there. It never happened to him before, and listening to your excuses, he was stupid, foolish, and should have known better. Hogwash. That's the exact type of way accidents happen - when a combination of conditions come together exactly right... dark, location, timing, something unexpected, past history, alertness, distractions.

We cannot do anything other than remove the gators here that would be as effective preventing an attack or killing.

I have yet to hear an articulated reason why it is SAFER to leave alligators as is, instead of removing them (here, in TV). State the reason why removing them would be less safe. How leaving them reduces the possibility of an attack. Oh, you can't; that's why.

Removing them reduces, or eliminates, the risk of an attack. No matter what actions a person, child, pet, or uneducated visitor takes. That is what humans do - make things safer for everyone's greater good.
It's wonderful that you are a brilliant person that has never had any accidents happen throughout your life. Not all are as fortunate. If you did have an accident, perhaps in a car, or with a saw, or a knife, or a broken bone... wouldn't it be better if something was done before that happened to completely prevent it?

Just discuss ALLIGATORS. Not interested in deflections to bugs, cars, dogs, etc. Not my "fears" lol or needs. Not blaming "stupid" people. Not telling people to move. Not fires, ladders, or <<anything>> else.

Actually, you moved to a swamp. Did you do your research before moving?
Over 31 percent of Florida is wetlands. Ninety percent of those wetlands are freshwater (over 18,500 square miles), with only 10 percent being saltwater marshes and mangroves (approximately 2,000 square miles)

[Direwolf]

You do realize that TV is FULL of wetland, lakes etc, that are chuck full of alligators, don't you?

We could remove every last one in TV and they would be back in a matter of months.

you are so right.
"In fact, swamps can be found in almost every area of Florida. This is due to the state's high water table, substantial rainfall and majorly flat landscape." Swamp Life: Learning the Florida Swamp Ecosystem (https://www.theblackhammock.com/Swamp-Life--Learning-the-Florida-Swamp-Ecosystem-1-12.html)

[Normal]

I recall Larry the alligator being removed some time ago from the Villages. The Villages seems to do a pretty good job with larger alligator removal.

[Rainger99]

If you were legally responsible for an alligator attack in the Villages, would you keep them here? Or would you remove them?

No one has answered this question. If you owned the place, would you keep them here?

Although I think the Disney settlement was kept secret, there are reports that it settled for $10,000,000.

Did Lane Graves' (Boy Killed by Alligator) Family Settle with Disney? (https://www.justinziegler.net/why-i-think-disney-pay-alligator/)

If the Villages gets hit with a $10,000,000 verdict, I would think that the amenity fees would go up. Is anyone willing to pay higher amenity fees for the alligator amenity?

[Maker]

Hey, the gators were here first.

Sorry, but that is wrong. Saying it over and over does not make it true.
There were many flat fields here with no alligators. Then big holes were dug. Rubber linings were added. Water collection pipes were placed to fill that hole with drainage. All that was done by humans, yet there were no alligators there first.
As time moved on, an alligator from elsewhere wandered into those retention ponds.
People were there first, not alligators.

[fdpaq0580]

I recall Larry the alligator being removed some time ago from the Villages. The Villages seems to do a pretty good job with larger alligator removal.

I remember that too. Sad day for me. I enjoyed the occasional view we would get of that magnificent animal.

[Maker]

I posted the stats... Ridiculously rare...

Living in fear of any threat that can be mitigated is just stupid.

[Maker]

You do realize that TV is FULL of wetland, lakes etc, that are chuck full of alligators, don't you?

We could remove every last one in TV and they would be back in a matter of months.

Great idea - remove every one. Get started now. We don't care how many there are, or how long it takes. Even if it's a continuous effort.
Humans deserve a safer environment.

[Maker]

No one can possibly eliminate pythons from large areas of Florida.
No one can possibly eliminate alligators from large areas of Florida.
Nature wins over the humans here.
The state government will not allow all alligators to be removed from large areas of Florida.
QED.

Gators and pythons are here to stay. Saying anything to the contrary is beer talk.

Talk about pythons is off topic. This is about alligators.
The Villages is not a "large area" of Florida. Removing ever alligator here would not make any dent in the overall population. The state politicians would be happy to make 150000 voters here happy.
QED with real logic.

[fdpaq0580]

Living in fear of any threat that can be mitigated is just stupid.

With a universe full of danger to focus on, alligators, one of the things least likely to impact you, seems extremely irrational. I recommend talking with a psychologist to help with this phobia. If that fails, you could try anxiety meds, alcohol or pot. If none of that works, then you should move because, 1 the world doesn't revolve around you, and 2 even if they tried to kill them all, how could you ever be certain that they didn't miss the one that has your name and address.

[Maker]

With a universe full of danger to focus on, alligators, one of the things least likely to impact you, seems extremely irrational. I recommend talking with a psychologist to help with this phobia. If that fails, you could try anxiety meds, alcohol or pot. If none of that works, then you should move because, 1 the world doesn't revolve around you, and 2 even if they tried to kill them all, how could you ever be certain that they didn't miss the one that has your name and address.

Maybe you should talk to the family of the 85y that was killed by an alligator. They would love to hear your suggestions.
Getting rid of 99.999% of them here would make it a lot safer. That's better than doing nothing.

[JMintzer]

Sorry, but that is wrong. Saying it over and over does not make it true.
There were many flat fields here with no alligators. Then big holes were dug. Rubber linings were added. Water collection pipes were placed to fill that hole with drainage. All that was done by humans, yet there were no alligators there first.
As time moved on, an alligator from elsewhere wandered into those retention ponds.
People were there first, not alligators.

Watch one of GoldWing Nut's videos... You'll see how wrong you are...

There are wetlands EVERYWHERE throughout TV...

They are on many of the golf courses (Evan's Prairie and Belle Glade seem to have the most...). They are over by Lake Sumter... They are west of Buena Vista... Between Hillsborough and 44 is a HUGE area of wetlands...

Those are just the ones I can name off the top of my head...

And they are ALL OVER the place south of 44...

[JMintzer]

No one has answered this question. If you owned the place, would you keep them here?

Although I think the Disney settlement was kept secret, there are reports that it settled for $10,000,000.

Did Lane Graves' (Boy Killed by Alligator) Family Settle with Disney? (https://www.justinziegler.net/why-i-think-disney-pay-alligator/)

If the Villages gets hit with a $10,000,000 verdict, I would think that the amenity fees would go up. Is anyone willing to pay higher amenity fees for the alligator amenity?

Maybe you should talk to the family of the 85y that was killed by an alligator. They would love to hear your suggestions.
Getting rid of 99.999% of them here would make it a lot safer. That's better than doing nothing.

Emotional Straw Man arguments...

[JMintzer]

Sorry, but that is wrong. Saying it over and over does not make it true.
There were many flat fields here with no alligators. Then big holes were dug. Rubber linings were added. Water collection pipes were placed to fill that hole with drainage. All that was done by humans, yet there were no alligators there first.
As time moved on, an alligator from elsewhere wandered into those retention ponds.
People were there first, not alligators.

Those "big holes" that were dug help water your lawn and keep your house from flooding...

[JMintzer]

Living in fear of any threat that can be mitigated is just stupid.

They are mitigated. Don't walk by the ponds and you'll be safe...

[JMintzer]

Great idea - remove every one. Get started now. We don't care how many there are, or how long it takes. Even if it's a continuous effort.
Humans deserve a safer environment.

Here.... Use this... You'll be safer...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BSYpzA1IMAAiOU0.jpg

[JMintzer]

Talk about pythons is off topic. This is about alligators.
The Villages is not a "large area" of Florida. Removing ever alligator here would not make any dent in the overall population. The state politicians would be happy to make 150000 voters here happy.
QED with real logic.

150000 voters don't want the alligators removed...

[Dusty_Star]

150000 voters don't want the alligators removed...

But many of us do. You did see the gator attack in Daytona Beach on Friday night on a man's front porch? All the man did was open the door in response to the noise at the door. Good reason for video cameras, but a front porch should be a safe place.

[Bill14564]

But many of us do. You did see the gator attack in Daytona Beach on Friday night on a man's front porch? All the man did was open the door in response to the noise at the door. Good reason for video cameras, but a front porch should be a safe place.

Mine front porch is safe.

Safety tip: Don't open your front door for a noise without first looking to see what the noise was. Yes, it could be your child's friend. On the other hand, it could be an individual too intoxicated to recognize they are at the wrong door. Or, it could be someone trying to break into your house. Or, it could be some deranged individual with a gun. Or, and much less likely, it could be an alligator. Best thing to do: don't open your front door for a noise without first looking to see what the noise was.

[Kenswing]

The bottom line is that gators are here to stay. Nobody is going to spend the money to remove them even if it was a legitimate problem. If the fear of living among them is so great you have to make your own decision on whether to remain here with them or not.

[JMintzer]

But many of us do. You did see the gator attack in Daytona Beach on Friday night on a man's front porch? All the man did was open the door in response to the noise at the door. Good reason for video cameras, but a front porch should be a safe place.

"A safe place"...

Hang this on your door... It'll help just as much as trying to remove nature...

https://www.nationalsafeplace.org/assets/images/safe-place-logo.jpg

[Rainger99]

Watch: Florida gator tears through metal fence with alarming ease (https://ftw.usatoday.com/2023/03/giant-florida-alligator-busts-through-metal-fence-remarkable-ease)

[coffeebean]

Alligators are sunning themselves at your front door by swimming through the pipes?????

How many alligators have you seen at your front door?

Given your (and other's) concerns, perhaps that master planned community in South Florida is a better fit for you?

Wasn't there a photo on this thread that showed an alligator at someone's front door? That was here in The Villages. My sister, who lives in Caroline had a small alligator waiting for her right outside her lanai door when she went to walk her dog. Thank goodness, I haven't had a greeting from an alligator at our home. We don't have any water close to our home though.

[coffeebean]

Maybe you should move to a swamp. You wold see lots of alligators. Then the rest of us can make our homes safer here for us, our family, and visitors.
Nobody expects to step onto their porch and have an alligator hiding there. It never happened to him before, and listening to your excuses, he was stupid, foolish, and should have known better. Hogwash. That's the exact type of way accidents happen - when a combination of conditions come together exactly right... dark, location, timing, something unexpected, past history, alertness, distractions.

We cannot do anything other than remove the gators here that would be as effective preventing an attack or killing.

I have yet to hear an articulated reason why it is SAFER to leave alligators as is, instead of removing them (here, in TV). State the reason why removing them would be less safe. How leaving them reduces the possibility of an attack. Oh, you can't; that's why.

Removing them reduces, or eliminates, the risk of an attack. No matter what actions a person, child, pet, or uneducated visitor takes. That is what humans do - make things safer for everyone's greater good.
It's wonderful that you are a brilliant person that has never had any accidents happen throughout your life. Not all are as fortunate. If you did have an accident, perhaps in a car, or with a saw, or a knife, or a broken bone... wouldn't it be better if something was done before that happened to completely prevent it?

Just discuss ALLIGATORS. Not interested in deflections to bugs, cars, dogs, etc. Not my "fears" lol or needs. Not blaming "stupid" people. Not telling people to move. Not fires, ladders, or <<anything>> else.

That master planned community certainly was a safer environment, no doubt about that.

[fdpaq0580]

"A safe place"...

Hang this on your door... It'll help just as much as trying to remove nature...

https://www.nationalsafeplace.org/assets/images/safe-place-logo.jpg

LOL! Love the sign. What folks need to understand is this, there is no such thing as a SAFE PLACE. Alligators, diseases, accidents just waiting to happen, in or away from your home, dangers everywhere you turn. People, young and old are dieing every second of every day. One person, tragically, was killed by a gator and people lose their flipping minds and think "OH MY GAWD, alligator apocalypse! KILL THEM! KILL THEM ALL! " Makes you want to slap them and get them out of their hysteria. (Old school remedy for those freaking out and running amok.)
Where's Mick Dundee when you need him?

[coffeebean]

Are they (gators) really that bad in Mallory?

I have yet to see an alligator as long as I have lived in Mallory. We aren't near any water so I guess that helps.

[Rainger99]

I have yet to see an alligator as long as I have lived in Mallory. We aren't near any water so I guess that helps.

If you play golf, it is almost impossible not to see them or hear them.

[fdpaq0580]

Wasn't there a photo on this thread that showed an alligator at someone's front door? That was here in The Villages. My sister, who lives in Caroline had a small alligator waiting for her right outside her lanai door when she went to walk her dog. Thank goodness, I haven't had a greeting from an alligator at our home. We don't have any water close to our home though.

We have a pool. Even though it is in a birdcage, I always look before I leap. Not only for gators. Snakes and other things could be in there that you might not enjoy. Even at home, be aware of your surroundings.

[coffeebean]

If you play golf, it is almost impossible not to see them or hear them.

Never have played golf.

[Normal]

While alligators were certainly here first (last 150 million to 200 million years till present), they are still needed by all of us. Ask any Community Watch professional here in the Villages and they will tell you of the surplus of species we have that alligators consume. Raccoons, rats and large snakes would dominate our landscape without them. Only a certified nut job would eradicate something that important to our ecosystem. Alligators are much easier to see and control than a population boom of varments and snakes!

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Wasn't there a photo on this thread that showed an alligator at someone's front door? That was here in The Villages. My sister, who lives in Caroline had a small alligator waiting for her right outside her lanai door when she went to walk her dog. Thank goodness, I haven't had a greeting from an alligator at our home. We don't have any water close to our home though.

It happens, but it is extremely rare. Just like the guy in Daytona. He didn't just open the door by the way. He stepped outside without looking.

There are over 21 million people in Florida and 1.3 million alligators. If is happened once a week it would be rare. But I've been down here for eleven years and I've heard about 3-4 incidents each year.

IT'S NOT A PROBLEM!!!

[Maker]

Help me understand this... It's either A or B?
A) People who have an irrational fear of alligators should move. Or see a doctor. (why is the go-to response always to "move"? This is my home, and has been for a long time)
B) Nobody should fear alligators. BUT to be safe you must always first check around before leaving your house... just to be safe. Look through peepholes, windows or cameras to see if your porch is clear. You never know what might be there. Always look under your car before approaching it. Check where you walk; look in front, both sides, and behind too. Check bushes and shrubs from a safe distance. Don't walk on the paths. Stay away from the water, even though there is water everywhere. Carry my gun "just in case".

Those precautions sound exactly like having to live everyday in fear of what might happen if I don't do that. That I cannot enjoy the space around my residence without having to constantly be on the lookout for an alligator popping up where I might want to go. I should do all that stuff, so that I'll be ok. It all sounds like a horrible way for everyone here to have to deal with alligators. It's just a different way to live in fear. Maybe you can make a cheat sheet to hand out to all the visitors who might not be aware of having to obey these safety rules. Parents can sit their grandkids down and tell them to just stay inside because that's a lot for a child to remember. That will certainly help people believe your solution is the best one.

But solution C... Get rid of them, it eliminates both A and B. Start now. Keep at it for as long as it takes.

[Kenswing]

Help me understand this... It's either A or B?
A) People who have an irrational fear of alligators should move. Or see a doctor. (why is the go-to response always to "move"? This is my home, and has been for a long time)
B) Nobody should fear alligators. BUT to be safe you must always first check around before leaving your house... just to be safe. Look through peepholes, windows or cameras to see if your porch is clear. You never know what might be there. Always look under your car before approaching it. Check where you walk; look in front, both sides, and behind too. Check bushes and shrubs from a safe distance. Don't walk on the paths. Stay away from the water, even though there is water everywhere. Carry my gun "just in case".

Those precautions sound exactly like having to live everyday in fear of what might happen if I don't do that. That I cannot enjoy the space around my residence without having to constantly be on the lookout for an alligator popping up where I might want to go. I should do all that stuff, so that I'll be ok. It all sounds like a horrible way for everyone here to have to deal with alligators. It's just a different way to live in fear. Maybe you can make a cheat sheet to hand out to all the visitors who might not be aware of having to obey these safety rules. Parents can sit their grandkids down and tell them to just stay inside because that's a lot for a child to remember. That will certainly help people believe your solution is the best one.

But solution C... Get rid of them, it eliminates both A and B. Start now. Keep at it for as long as it takes.
With that rationale we should get rid of all cars so we wouldn’t have to look both ways before crossing the street. After all, far more people get hit by cars than get attacked by alligators.

[Bill14564]

With that rationale we should get rid of all cars so we wouldn’t have to look both ways before crossing the street. After all, far more people get hit by cars than get attacked by alligators.

Dogs too.

His choice B sounds good though he is the only one concerned about the paths and no one wants him to be armed in public.

[Maker]

Mentioning cars or dogs is called DEFLECTING. Both are off topic. That's a common defense in a discussion when there is no rational way to refute other statements.
If you want to talk about off-topic things, start a thread about them. Why are you unable to stay on topic?

[Bill14564]

Mentioning cars or dogs is called DEFLECTING. Both are off topic. That's a common defense in a discussion when there is no rational way to refute other statements.
If you want to talk about off-topic things, start a thread about them. Why are you unable to stay on topic?

Your claim is you want to save humans. I’m helping you to see that your efforts would be better spent tackling a real concern like dogs or cars. Your insistence on focusing on alligators makes me convinced the issue isn’t a concern for human life but an irrational fear.

[Kenswing]

Mentioning cars or dogs is called DEFLECTING. Both are off topic. That's a common defense in a discussion when there is no rational way to refute other statements.
If you want to talk about off-topic things, start a thread about them. Why are you unable to stay on topic?

Why are you unable to see the correlation between alligators and other more dangerous situations that surround you every day? Alligators are a statistically insignificant threat. When are you going to accept that NOTHING is going to be done in respect to removing the entire species from The Villages? They will just continue to remove problem gators as they become a problem.

It still comes down to a simple decision. Are you willing to co-exist with them or not? Because there is absolutely no indication that anyone in power is willing to take the steps that you are proposing. So go ahead and stomp your feet. Cry to the heavens. But sooner or later you will have to accept the fact that gators are here to stay. Are you?

[Veiragirl]

Alligators are of no use in a populated community. They are only good for luggage, boots and cuisine.


wrong

[Two Bills]

Remember what happened when Mao Zedong declared war on the sparrows.
Upset natures balance at your own risk!

[fdpaq0580]

Mentioning cars or dogs is called DEFLECTING. Both are off topic. That's a common defense in a discussion when there is no rational way to refute other statements.
If you want to talk about off-topic things, start a thread about them. Why are you unable to stay on topic?

"Stay on topic". Some people can't or won't be open to a reasonable alternative because they are irrationally fixated on their own narrative. Others, recognizing this, try to help the fixated one by drawing parallels or analogies. If one is so possessed by their fear that they cannot recognize simple analogies, they may need professional help.

As to the rational reason for not destroying all the alligators, try this. 1. Risk is extremely minimal. 2. Cost would be extremely high. 3. Hunting in and around areas of human activity and habitation would likely increase potential danger to the public. 4. In past attempts to alter animal populations, many have ended by creating more problems tan they fix. The list goes on and on.

[Dusty_Star]

While alligators were certainly here first (last 150 million to 200 million years till present), they are still needed by all of us. Ask any Community Watch professional here in the Villages and they will tell you of the surplus of species we have that alligators consume. Raccoons, rats and large snakes would dominate our landscape without them. Only a certified nut job would eradicate something that important to our ecosystem. Alligators are much easier to see and control than a population boom of varments and snakes!

But the point is no one IS controlling the alligators in The Villages.

[Happydaz]

“Alligator. …,,,,,,,,,,Slowly I turned step by step, inch by inch………,…,

[fdpaq0580]

“Alligator. …,,,,,,,,,,Slowly I turned step by step, inch by inch………,…,

HAHAHA!, Was the gator wearing a Susquehanna hat?

[Maker]

They will just continue to remove problem gators as they become a problem.

EXACTLY !!!
Removing problem alligators AFTER they are a problem IS THE PROBLEM.
Remove them BEFORE they are a problem. It's such a simple concept. Nothing about cars or dogs is relevant to removing alligators to prevent problem gators from being here in the first place.

A reasonable correlation would be polio. People get a vaccine to prevent polio rather than waiting until after they catch the disease (when it's too late) to do something. Remove alligators to prevent an attack, rather than taking a victim to a hospital or morgue.

It's clear you love alligators. Great for you, there are millions all around us. Go pet some.
I believe they are an unnecessary nuisance that are a ticking time bomb. One day somebody here will die because no action was taken to mitigate that threat.

[Normal]

But the point is no one IS controlling the alligators in The Villages.

The alligators are controlled in the Villages. Just ask Larry.

[Rainger99]

A proposed settlement that should make everyone happy.

Remove them from the retention ponds which I believe are man made and are very close to houses, golf courses, and walking paths.

Leave the alligators in the natural occurring lakes such as Lake Denham, Lake Deaton, Lake Okahumpka, Lake Miona, etc.

For those people who like alligators, they can go to the lakes and see them and for those who don't want alligators in the retention ponds, they will be safe.

[Kenswing]

EXACTLY !!!
Removing problem alligators AFTER they are a problem IS THE PROBLEM.
Remove them BEFORE they are a problem. It's such a simple concept. Nothing about cars or dogs is relevant to removing alligators to prevent problem gators from being here in the first place.

A reasonable correlation would be polio. People get a vaccine to prevent polio rather than waiting until after they catch the disease (when it's too late) to do something. Remove alligators to prevent an attack, rather than taking a victim to a hospital or morgue.

It's clear you love alligators. Great for you, there are millions all around us. Go pet some.
I believe they are an unnecessary nuisance that are a ticking time bomb. One day somebody here will die because no action was taken to mitigate that threat.

Polio is no way a reasonable correlation to alligators. Alligators haven't killed .00000001% of what polio did. There was an ACTUAL REASON for a polio vaccine.

The sooner you accept the fact that the gators are here to stay, the sooner you can get on with the rest of your life. It doesn't matter what you think should happen to them. The reality is they'll be here long after you're gone.

[Kenswing]

A proposed settlement that should make everyone happy.

Remove them from the retention ponds which I believe are man made and are very close to houses, golf courses, and walking paths.

Leave the alligators in the natural occurring lakes such as Lake Denham, Lake Deaton, Lake Okahumpka, Lake Miona, etc.

For those people who like alligators, they can go to the lakes and see them and for those who don't want alligators in the retention ponds, they will be safe.

So you're talking for everyone now?

[Rainger99]

So you're talking for everyone now?

I didn't say will make everyone happy. I said should.

If I said it will make everyone happy, I would be talking for everyone.

[JMintzer]

Remember what happened when Mao Zedong declared war on the sparrows.
Upset natures balance at your own risk!

https://media.tenor.com/a2q7QaF9-n0AAAAd/mother-nature-not-nice-to-fool-with-mother-nature.gif

[JMintzer]

EXACTLY !!!
Removing problem alligators AFTER they are a problem IS THE PROBLEM.
Remove them BEFORE they are a problem. It's such a simple concept. Nothing about cars or dogs is relevant to removing alligators to prevent problem gators from being here in the first place.

A reasonable correlation would be polio. People get a vaccine to prevent polio rather than waiting until after they catch the disease (when it's too late) to do something. Remove alligators to prevent an attack, rather than taking a victim to a hospital or morgue.

It's clear you love alligators. Great for you, there are millions all around us. Go pet some.
I believe they are an unnecessary nuisance that are a ticking time bomb. One day somebody here will die because no action was taken to mitigate that threat.

Polio? Why can't you stay on topic? Polio is nothing but a deflection...

Are you using it as a defense, because you have no other defense to your argument?

Or, some such nonsense...

[JMintzer]

A proposed settlement that should make everyone happy.

Remove them from the retention ponds which I believe are man made and are very close to houses, golf courses, and walking paths.

Leave the alligators in the natural occurring lakes such as Lake Denham, Lake Deaton, Lake Okahumpka, Lake Miona, etc.

For those people who like alligators, they can go to the lakes and see them and for those who don't want alligators in the retention ponds, they will be safe.

Until they come back to the retention ponds...

I'll give it a week...

[Kenswing]

Polio? Why can't you stay on topic? Polio is nothing but a deflection...

Are you using it as a defense, because you have no other defense to your argument?

Or, some such nonsense...

:1rotfl:

[JMintzer]

Help me understand this... It's either A or B?
A) People who have an irrational fear of alligators should move. Or see a doctor. (why is the go-to response always to "move"? This is my home, and has been for a long time)
B) Nobody should fear alligators. BUT to be safe you must always first check around before leaving your house... just to be safe. Look through peepholes, windows or cameras to see if your porch is clear. You never know what might be there. Always look under your car before approaching it. Check where you walk; look in front, both sides, and behind too. Check bushes and shrubs from a safe distance. Don't walk on the paths. Stay away from the water, even though there is water everywhere. Carry my gun "just in case".

Those precautions sound exactly like having to live everyday in fear of what might happen if I don't do that. That I cannot enjoy the space around my residence without having to constantly be on the lookout for an alligator popping up where I might want to go. I should do all that stuff, so that I'll be ok. It all sounds like a horrible way for everyone here to have to deal with alligators. It's just a different way to live in fear. Maybe you can make a cheat sheet to hand out to all the visitors who might not be aware of having to obey these safety rules. Parents can sit their grandkids down and tell them to just stay inside because that's a lot for a child to remember. That will certainly help people believe your solution is the best one.

But solution C... Get rid of them, it eliminates both A and B. Start now. Keep at it for as long as it takes.

https://media.tenor.com/g7nzxqrG9GIAAAAC/girl-sure-jan.gif

I see your parallel thread on "N*xt Door" is getting a similar response...

Maybe it's a sign...

[Rainger99]

Until they come back to the retention ponds...

I'll give it a week...

Why don’t we try it and see how long it takes for them to return?

[Direwolf]

So, two questions for those who want to eradicate all the gators in TV.

Who is going to pay for it?

Are you willing to have your home become a target for PETA protestors?

GCM

[JMintzer]

Why don’t we try it and see how long it takes for them to return?

Let's not...

How do you think they got in the retention ponds in the first place?

Here's some light reading about how important they are to the FL ecosystem...

are alligators important to the ecosystem in Florida - Google Search (https://www.google.com/search?q=are+alligators+important+to+the+ecosystem +in+Florida&rlz=1C5CHFA_enUS873US874&ei=muoHZKeRA6ex5NoPqp-ogAo&ved=0ahUKEwinxvTbnMv9AhWnGFkFHaoPCqAQ4dUDCBA&uact=5&oq=are+alligators+important+to+the+ecosystem+in+Fl orida&gs_lcp=Cgxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAQAzIFCCEQqwI6CggAEEcQ1gQ QsAM6BggAEBYQHjoFCAAQhgM6BQghEKABOggIIRAWEB4QHUoEC EEYAFDsAljnKWCWLWgBcAF4AIABwgGIAcEHkgEDOS4ymAEAoAE ByAEIwAEB&sclient=gws-wiz-serp)

[fdpaq0580]

A proposed settlement that should make everyone happy.

Remove them from the retention ponds which I believe are man made and are very close to houses, golf courses, and walking paths.

Leave the alligators in the natural occurring lakes such as Lake Denham, Lake Deaton, Lake Okahumpka, Lake Miona, etc.

For those people who like alligators, they can go to the lakes and see them and for those who don't want alligators in the retention ponds, they will be safe.

You must be a nice person (I seriously mean that.). You are offering a solution that attempts to avert an argument and appeal to both sides. I offer this point of view. Some individuals like to pick a "fight", others enjoy the literary tug-o-war that occurs in threads like this one. Yes, there is some bickering and mild insults, but for most, like myself, it is mostly all in fun. No real harm is intended.

Now, back to defending man's best friend, the often misunderstood alligator.

[Maker]

A proposed settlement that should make everyone happy.

Remove them from the retention ponds which I believe are man made and are very close to houses, golf courses, and walking paths.

Leave the alligators in the natural occurring lakes such as Lake Denham, Lake Deaton, Lake Okahumpka, Lake Miona, etc.

For those people who like alligators, they can go to the lakes and see them and for those who don't want alligators in the retention ponds, they will be safe.

That sounds like a reasonable approach. Let's get started.

[Maker]

Polio? Why can't you stay on topic? Polio is nothing but a deflection...

Are you using it as a defense, because you have no other defense to your argument?

Or, some such nonsense...

Polio is an example of acting proactively. Before having to deal with a crisis after problems occur.
It's not some far reaching "what about this" deflection towards fixing every other problem in the world. If someone cannot understand the difference, then there is no hope of them understanding the problem. Prevention, not reaction.

[Maker]

https://media.tenor.com/g7nzxqrG9GIAAAAC/girl-sure-jan.gif

I see your parallel thread on "N*xt Door" is getting a similar response...

Maybe it's a sign...

I don't go to that site. Nice try.

[JMintzer]

Polio is an example of acting proactively. Before having to deal with a crisis after problems occur.
It's not some far reaching "what about this" deflection towards fixing every other problem in the world. If someone cannot understand the difference, then there is no hope of them understanding the problem. Prevention, not reaction.

As already explained, Polio affects MILLIONS of people...

Alligators? single digits...

[JMintzer]

I don't go to that site. Nice try.

Then you have someone quoting you verbatim over there...

[Maker]

As already explained, Polio affects MILLIONS of people...

Alligators? single digits...

Wrong again... Polio no longer affects millions of people BECAUSE of removing the threat BEFORE it can infect people.

[Kenswing]

Wrong again... Polio no longer affects millions of people BECAUSE of removing the threat BEFORE it can infect people.
Are you just being obtuse or maybe simply trolling? Polio killed thousands of people before a vaccine was developed. That's hardly removing the threat BEFORE it can infect people.

AGAIN... Alligators aren't going anywhere. Decide whether you want to co-exist with them or not.

[Maker]

Are you just being obtuse or maybe simply trolling? Polio killed thousands of people before a vaccine was developed. That's hardly removing the threat BEFORE it can infect people.

AGAIN... Alligators aren't going anywhere. Decide whether you want to co-exist with them or not.

Fast forward a few years from now. People will say the same thing about alligators as is said about polio... Alligators used to injure and kill people BEFORE they were removed.
Being obtuse is denying humans can make that choice. Then bullying those who have a vision for a safer community.

[Byte1]

Watch one of GoldWing Nut's videos... You'll see how wrong you are...

There are wetlands EVERYWHERE throughout TV...

They are on many of the golf courses (Evan's Prairie and Belle Glade seem to have the most...). They are over by Lake Sumter... They are west of Buena Vista... Between Hillsborough and 44 is a HUGE area of wetlands...

Those are just the ones I can name off the top of my head...

And they are ALL OVER the place south of 44...

Not trying to be argumentative....BUT I don't believe that these golf courses were built around the many ponds on them that may or may not contain gators. Much of the Villages was not residential to the gators, unless I am mistaken. I believe the ponds were constructed and then the 'gators arrived. I do realize that we also have lakes that may have contained 'gators previous to Villages being constructed.
I see no reasonable argument for not making the Villages safe from dangerous wildlife, when there is absolutely no threat of causing an extinction of a species. I have no doubt that IF/IF coyotes become a dangerous nuisance, that some action would be taken to alleviate that problem. When mosquitoes became a problem here, they started periodic spraying. If we started having frequent bear incursions that posed threats then they would be removed without a complaint.

[fishon]

Maybe we should exterminate all of the animals we don’t like.

I’ll start by stating that I don’t like cats.

[Kenswing]

Fast forward a few years from now. People will say the same thing about alligators as is said about polio... Alligators used to injure and kill people BEFORE they were removed.
Being obtuse is denying humans can make that choice. Then bullying those who have a vision for a safer community.

Alligators used to kill and injure people? Show me the last time someone was killed or injured in The Villages by an alligator. Prove to me that this is an actual problem and I might get on board. There are so many things that we could address that have a far greater impact on public safety than alligators.

But let’s pretend that alligators are really a problem. What action have you taken to further your agenda? What is your idea for removal? After removal how do you keep them from coming back? How do we pay for this project? Raise taxes? Take money from another public safety budget. Give me some details.

[Dusty_Star]

Florida Gator rips through metal fence

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