So so unfair pro golf purse

[jebartle]

LPGA WINNER $270,000 HSBC
PGA WINNER $3,600,000 BAYHILL

Come on, this is ridiculous

Tennis, soccer same for both genders

Basketball, women must supplement income going overseas at sometimes find themselves in prison.

NOT FAIR!!!!!

[Keefelane66]

Agree 100%

[retiredguy123]

I don't agree. The purse is based on the amount of money that can be raised to produce and promote the tournament. It's a business, that has income and expenses, like any other business. No one is forcing women to play in a golf tournament. Where do you suggest that the extra money come from?

[fdpaq0580]

LPGA WINNER $270,000 HSBC
PGA WINNER $3,600,000 BAYHILL

Come on, this is ridiculous

Tennis, soccer same for both genders

Basketball, women must supplement income going overseas at sometimes find themselves in prison.

NOT FAIR!!!!!

I agree with you! Unfortunately, life isn't fair. In entertainment (include professional sports) pay is based on the revenue it brings in.

[ThirdOfFive]

LPGA WINNER $270,000 HSBC
PGA WINNER $3,600,000 BAYHILL

Come on, this is ridiculous

Tennis, soccer same for both genders

Basketball, women must supplement income going overseas at sometimes find themselves in prison.

NOT FAIR!!!!!
My wife's former hairdresser, back in Minnesota, charged $120 for a cut and color. Took about two hours, so based on that, he could do maybe four in a day. Pretty good money.

A cut-and-color by one of the hairdresser's (female) at Cal's Barber Shop here in TV costs $68.00. Same time spent. Same result.

Is this "fair"?

And why or why not?

[ThirdOfFive]

I agree with you! Unfortunately, life isn't fair. In entertainment (include professional sports) pay is based on the revenue it brings in.
I attended an LPGA event held at Hazeltine National Golf Club in Chaska, MN about ten years or so ago. We were there on a Friday. Great golf; we had no problem going anywhere on the course where spectators were allowed. Plenty of seating and standing space. Didn't cost much. Parking was as I recall; $5 per vehicle and there was plenty of space.

My wife attended a PGA event at the same course about five years prior to that--2009 I think. Tiger Woods was in the field. She had a special pass from a friend who worked there in some capacity or other. At the time, I think the cost per ticket was in the neighborhood of $200 per day--if you could get one. Many couldn't. Offhand I'd say that it cost a spectator about five times as much to attend the PGA championship as the LPGA one. To say nothing of the advertising revenues for television, which with Tiger in the field probably dwarfed any such revenue gained from the LPGA event.

Is this fair?

[retiredguy123]

I attended an LPGA event held at Hazeltine National Golf Club in Chaska, MN about ten years or so ago. We were there on a Friday. Great golf; we had no problem going anywhere on the course where spectators were allowed. Plenty of seating and standing space. Didn't cost much. Parking was as I recall; $5 per vehicle and there was plenty of space.

My wife attended a PGA event at the same course about five years prior to that--2009 I think. Tiger Woods was in the field. She had a special pass from a friend who worked there in some capacity or other. At the time, I think the cost per ticket was in the neighborhood of $200 per day--if you could get one. Many couldn't. Offhand I'd say that it cost a spectator about five times as much to attend the PGA championship as the LPGA one. To say nothing of the advertising revenues for television, which with Tiger in the field probably dwarfed any such revenue gained from the LPGA event.

Is this fair?
In my opinion, it is very fair. It's called capitalism and the free market.

[BrianL99]

LPGA WINNER $270,000 HSBC
PGA WINNER $3,600,000 BAYHILL

Come on, this is ridiculous

Tennis, soccer same for both genders



You're right, it is ridiculous. I can't believe the LPGA can afford to pay the winner of the HSBC more than $100,000.

Women don't support women's sports and men don't care to watch an inferior product.

Same reason that "Gentlemen's Clubs" out number "Lady's Clubs" by about 10,000:1.

As soon as some woman can compete at golf with Tiger Woods or even John Rahm, things will change ... maybe.

[Stu from NYC]

It is all about economics. When female sporting events make the same revenue as mens talk about equal pay.

[PurvisT]

It's fair due to the quality of skill. A few years ago, a boys' team from Texas u15 or u17 beat the USA women's world cup champions 7 to 2. 100-meter race in track men's time is a second faster than women. I enjoy watching women's sports, but they are not anywhere near the ability or skill of men.

[fdpaq0580]

You're right, it is ridiculous. I can't believe the LPGA can afford to pay the winner of the HSBC more than $100,000.

Women don't support women's sports and men don't care to watch an inferior product.

Same reason that "Gentlemen's Clubs" out number "Lady's Clubs" by about 10,000:1.

As soon as some woman can compete at golf with Tiger Woods or even John Rahm, things will change ... maybe.

The one objection I have with this post is the reference to women's sports as an "inferior product ". It is kind of a simple matter of "horsepower". To me, a race between two mazda miatas just as interesting as a race between two corvettes. Still requires the same skill to get the best result from your competitive limitations.

[Rainger99]

The one objection I have with this post is the reference to women's sports as an "inferior product ". It is kind of a simple matter of "horsepower". To me, a race between two mazda miatas just as interesting as a race between two corvettes. Still requires the same skill to get the best result from your competitive limitations.

I have seen great minor league baseball games. The players play harder than major leaguers since they want to get called up.

However, even though the games may be very competitive - the major leaguers get paid a lot more. Average salary for MLB is about $4 million. Minor leaguers make anywhere from $4,800 to $14,700 annually. The high-end of this scale is still below the minimum wage in the United States, which as of 2022, is an annual salary of $15,080 for a full-time worker making the Federal Minimum Wage of $7.50.

[BrianL99]

The one objection I have with this post is the reference to women's sports as an "inferior product ". It is kind of a simple matter of "horsepower". To me, a race between two mazda miatas just as interesting as a race between two corvettes. Still requires the same skill to get the best result from your competitive limitations.

If I suggested that women have "competitive limitations", I'd be accused of being a misogynist.

As most everyone has pointed out, a 3rd grader should be able to understand the financial implictations.

If it costs $10 to watch the Corvettes race, you'd be lucky to get $3 at the door, for the Mazda race.

[villager7591]

Retiredguy;
You hit it! When the LPGA generates $$$ that the PGA Tour generates, the LPGA will have payouts like the men's tour.

[JMintzer]

Same thing with the WNBA. If it weren't for massive subsidies from the NBA, the WNBA wouldn't exist. I'd wager that most women couldn't name their local WNBA team, let alone ever attend a game...

Once women's tennis started bringing in the revenue, they started receiving the same prize money (for less work, btw, since they only play 3 sets vs 5 sets for the men in the major tournaments...)

[Two Bills]

If you do not bring the money in, how can you pay more out?
Only governments work with that scenario.
Men's tournament generate the cash through the gate.
Although I enjoy watching ladies tournaments because of the smaller crowds.
Same with equal pay for women tennis players.
They only play three sets, men five.
In my book it's the male tennis players who are underpaid!

[JP]

When women start playing from the black tees and hit as far as men then maybe equal viewership and equal pay. Otherwise, no.

[ThirdOfFive]

In my opinion, it is very fair. It's called capitalism and the free market.
Bingo.

Produce a product capable of bringing in the same money, and the pay will be commensurate. Until then...

[Papa_lecki]

LPGA WINNER $270,000 HSBC
PGA WINNER $3,600,000 BAYHILL

Come on, this is ridiculous

Tennis, soccer same for both genders

Basketball, women must supplement income going overseas at sometimes find themselves in prison.

NOT FAIR!!!!!

NBA revenue = $7.4 Billion
WNBA Revenue = $60 Million

PGA Tour Revenue = $1.6 Billion
LPGA Tour revenue = $117 Million

The United States Women’s National Team (USWNT) earned more money from its male equivalent reaching the knockout stages of the 2022 FIFA World Cup in Qatar than it did from winning its own tournaments in 2015 and 2019.


“Basketball, women must supplement income going overseas at sometimes find themselves in prison.”
Not in prison for going overseas, in prison for having a drug that’s illegal in the country

[JayK!]

Boycott the sponsors. Send sponsors letters stating your concerns.

[MSchad]

Boycott the sponsors. Send sponsors letters stating your concerns.

Really, boycott sponsors!? Then they pull out sponsoring the LPGA because return on investment drops. If you want sponsors to pay more, support them and by their product. Higher return on investment equals higher value for venue.

[Clubcart]

LPGA WINNER $270,000 HSBC
PGA WINNER $3,600,000 BAYHILL

Come on, this is ridiculous

Tennis, soccer same for both genders

Basketball, women must supplement income going overseas at sometimes find themselves in prison.

NOT FAIR!!!!!

Because it's about the attendance and ads. Bill Barr explained it the best. Search on YouTube for "Women Sports, what men think but can’t say" and enjoy.

:popcorn:

Bill Burr explained it the best on this clip from YouTube...

https://youtu.be/I745Ajeq_B8

It's about the money...

[BrianL99]

Boycott the sponsors. Send sponsors letters stating your concerns.

That will surely work.

[westernrider75]

You're right, it is ridiculous. I can't believe the LPGA can afford to pay the winner of the HSBC more than $100,000.

Women don't support women's sports and men don't care to watch an inferior product.

Same reason that "Gentlemen's Clubs" out number "Lady's Clubs" by about 10,000:1.

As soon as some woman can compete at golf with Tiger Woods or even John Rahm, things will change ... maybe.

WOW that might be the most sexist comment I’ve ever seen on here! “ Women don’t support women’s sports and men don’t care to watch an inferior product”!!!!!!

The women in your life must be so proud.

[DFSchneider]

LPGA WINNER $270,000 HSBC
PGA WINNER $3,600,000 BAYHILL

Come on, this is ridiculous

Tennis, soccer same for both genders

Basketball, women must supplement income going overseas at sometimes find themselves in prison.

NOT FAIR!!!!!

Who said life is fair? There is the fairness where everything is equal. So everyone pays the same price for a theater ticket, whether a child, an adult or a senior citizen. No one has more than another. Everyone eats or no one does, for example. Logically, then, an infant and an adolescent will receive the same amount of food. It doesn’t matter that one needs more than the other. Fairness is finding the average and applying it across the board. This is fairness as equality of outcome.

[ChrisTinaBruce]

Where’s the “equitable” crocodile tears for the male adult entertainers?

[BrianL99]

You're right, it is ridiculous. I can't believe the LPGA can afford to pay the winner of the HSBC more than $100,000.

Women don't support women's sports and men don't care to watch an inferior product.

Same reason that "Gentlemen's Clubs" out number "Lady's Clubs" by about 10,000:1.

As soon as some woman can compete at golf with Tiger Woods or even John Rahm, things will change ... maybe.


WOW that might be the most sexist comment I’ve ever seen on here! “ Women don’t support women’s sports and men don’t care to watch an inferior product”!!!!!!

The women in your life must be so proud.

Real women aren't offended by the truth.

Sports will continue to be sexist, until women stop demanding separate platforms to display their inferior skills.

[Rwirish]

Unfair, how? Unfortunately women’s golf does not have the same level of support from fans, sponsors, advertisers etc. Until it does, it isn’t going to change.

[oneclickplus]

LPGA WINNER $270,000 HSBC
PGA WINNER $3,600,000 BAYHILL

Come on, this is ridiculous

Tennis, soccer same for both genders

Basketball, women must supplement income going overseas at sometimes find themselves in prison.

NOT FAIR!!!!!

This isn't a social program or a constitutional right ... this is a business. And women going overseas for any reason are imprisoned for carrying illegal drugs ... the same result as anyone else regardless of sex of occupation. They don't go to prison for playing sports.

Less people (and therefore less $$) are interested in women's sports. That's a fact. And, if there is less money from sponsors and others, the prize pool is smaller.

Bill Gates and I were in the same profession ... software development. Why is he a billionaire and I'm not? Who do I complain to in order to level the playing field (pun intended)?

[gmdds]

Same thing with the WNBA. If it weren't for massive subsidies from the NBA, the WNBA wouldn't exist. I'd wager that most women couldn't name their local WNBA team, let alone ever attend a game...

Once women's tennis started bringing in the revenue, they started receiving the same prize money (for less work, btw, since they only play 3 sets vs 5 sets for the men in the major tournaments...)

I wonder why Billie Jean King hasn’t said anything about womens tennis actually being paid the same, for less work, 3 sets vs. 5 sets. I’ve always thought highly of her…until she stands by, says nothing, and is actually proud of it. Come Billie Jean, do you want true equity or not…seems pretty hypocritical. And heaven forbid any of the announcers or others former stars say anything.

[dewilson58]

This isn't a social program or a constitutional right ... this is a business.

Agree.......................Free Market.

Let's give everyone participation awards.

Let's pay all Doctors, CPA's & Attorneys the same as hamburger flippers.

:coolsmiley::coolsmiley:

[Bob Kelly]

When women Sport draw the Money..
as men sports ...they should and will be paid as Men. ( Golf, women use much shorter course then men ) ..not the same.
Tennis was the first Woke Sport...paying the women the same is a crime ...Love watching the women....but they are not playing the same game as men! ( Not as fast or powerful) And they only play 60%of what the men play ( 3 sets to 5 sets)....So maybe they should only get %60 of what men are paid????

[rickaslin]

The one objection I have with this post is the reference to women's sports as an "inferior product ". It is kind of a simple matter of "horsepower". To me, a race between two mazda miatas just as interesting as a race between two corvettes. Still requires the same skill to get the best result from your competitive limitations.

Good comparison but the difference is you would go to the Miatas race but would go see the Corvette race!!

[ThirdOfFive]

When women Sport draw the Money..
as men sports ...they should and will be paid as Men. ( Golf, women use much shorter course then men ) ..not the same.
Tennis was the first Woke Sport...paying the women the same is a crime ...Love watching the women....but they are not playing the same game as men! ( Not as fast or powerful) And they only play 60%of what the men play ( 3 sets to 5 sets)....So maybe they should only get %60 of what men are paid????
True--sort of--

That 5-set thing for men's tennis applies only to the four major "grand slam" tournaments (Australian Open, French Open, Wimbledon, and the U.S. Open). The ATP Final and Indian Wells used to play five, but now only three. Fan attendance at the slam matches is pretty much equal men to women, and TV viewership for the grand slam events are also roughly equal, men and women. The prize money at the slams is equal, men to women, which makes sense considering the roughly equal fan attendance, media coverage, etc. for both genders.

Things drop off at non-slam events. There are roughly equal numbers of WTA (women's pro tennis) and ATP (Men's pro tennis) events per year. But the women's events just don't draw as many viewers at the matches, and "In total, the women’s competitions received 41% less media coverage than the men’s". ("Gender Media Coverage in Tennis", signal-ai dot com).

I love watching tennis, of whatever gender. But it is a fact that the games don't compare well. There are a few women's pro tennis players who have beaten men's pro players but those are the very occasional exceptions to a pretty rigid rule.

This, from topend sports dot com: "During the 1998 Australian Open, sisters Serena and Venus Williams boasted that they could beat any man ranked outside the world's top 200. The challenge was accepted by Karsten Braasch, a German player ranked No 203 (his highest ranking was No 38). Before the matches, Braasch played a round of golf in the morning, drank a couple of beers, smoked a few cigarettes, and then played the Williams sisters for a set each, one after the other. He defeated Serena, 6-1, and Venus, 6-2. Serena said afterwards "I didn't know it would be that hard. I hit shots that would have been winners on the women's tour and he got to them easily."

Facts are neither fair nor unfair. They are merely facts. And it is a fact that women's pro tennis is an inferior product to men's pro tennis.

[retiredguy123]

Men are more competitive than women, and it is not only because of physical strength or skill. The game of chess has been played around the world for more than a thousand years. It requires no physical strength or skill. But women have never been able to compete with men in chess tournaments or rankings.

[Rainger99]

If they had a Wimbledon for women and a separate Wimbledon for men, I doubt that the purses would be the same. The TV ratings would be much lower for the women’s tournament.

The women tennis players should be thankful that they are benefiting from the men players.

If the women golf would play at the same time as the men’s (alternate foursomes), they might get more money because the men are bringing in the money.

Same with the NBA and WNBA - have both games played on same night at same arena. And require TV to pay the same for both games. I think the crowds and ratings would be lower for the WNBA but who cares -the goal is equity.

[Lisanp@aol.com]

Consider supporting The Women's Sports Foundation. It was founded in 1974 by Billie Jean King to advocate for equality and to expand access and opportunities for girls and women in sports. As the mother of a female athlete, I see first hand the discrimination that exists in women's sports. Federal Title IX legislation turned 50 this past year, but female sports teams are still not funded the same way that men's teams are at the high school and college level. Until that changes, we will not see gender equity in sports at the professional level. By watching the WNBA games or LPGA tournaments, you can make a difference too!
Home - Women's Sports Foundation (http://www.womenssportsfoundation.org)

[tophcfa]

Yet when it comes to beach volleyball most viewers would prefer to watch the women.

[BrianL99]

Until that changes, we will not see gender equity in sports at the professional level. By watching the WNBA games or LPGA tournaments, you can make a difference too!
Home - Women's Sports Foundation (http://www.womenssportsfoundation.org)

"Gender equality" in sports will begin the minute a woman beats a man, at the highest level of sports competition.

"Gender equity" is what we have now. Athletes are remunerated at a level that reflects the public's interest in their sport and the level of competition.

[Lisanp@aol.com]

"Gender equality" in sports will begin the minute a woman beats a man, at the highest level of sports competition.

"Gender equity" is what we have now. Athletes are remunerated at a level that reflects the public's interest in their sport and the level of competition.

Why does a women need to be a man to matter? Don't reply - I have no interest!

[tophcfa]

"Gender equality" in sports will begin the minute a woman beats a man, at the highest level of sports competition.

Unfortunately, many confused people now define gender equality in sports to be when a man, who claims to identify as a woman, beats biological women. Very sad!

[retiredguy123]

It seems as though some posters on this thread are trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist. Why not let the free market determine the value of sports? Some sporting events are more popular than others and that is why they raise more money. Just like some movies make more money than others because more people want to see them. I don't think it is about men vs women. Also, it is not about discrimination, equaIity, or equity.

[shut the front door]

The WNBA has LOST MONEY every single year since its inception. It’s only thanks to the NBA, who covers for their losses, that WNBA players even remain employed in the first place. The WNBA already sucks around $15 million from the NBA every year.

I don’t want to hear anything about “gender pay gap”. If you present a good product to the masses, you will get rewarded. So of course they shouldn’t expect to get paid the same! How about they show ONE year of profit first before they go on complaining about pay. I’m still waiting…
One has to wonder how many women complaining about gender pay gap have ever attended a WNBA game?

[bluecenturian]

It’s based on viewership. If less people watch one event than another then the less viewed event will have a smaller prize. Why don’t you go house to house and force everyone to watch the event YOU think is unfairly paid.

[dewilson58]

Why does a women need to be a man to matter? Don't reply - I have no interest!

They don't NEED TO BE A MAN.

Overall, men are at a higher level of quality sports and audiences enjoy the higher level.

:shrug:

[BrianL99]

Why does a women need to be a man to matter? Don't reply - I have no interest!

She doesn't have to be a man, she merely has to have the ability to compete at the same level.

& I replied in the hope you'll understand a simpler explanation.

[ThirdOfFive]

Mama Nature, in her wisdom, has imbued each sex with physical characteristics (Note I said PHYSICAL) related to their biological roles. This can probably every member of the genus Homo that has inhabited this planet, up to and including Homo Sapiens. Women are the homemakers; the keepers of the hearth. They are the gender that conceives, bears and rears children and their bodies are designed for that role. Men on the other hand are designed to be the hunters, the warriors, and the protectors. They are taller, better-muscled, can run faster, jump higher, and throw a spear farther than the female gender can. On the negative side they also die earlier.

Physical sports depends on physical conditioning. Men, being the more physical of the two genders, naturally do better than women in just about all physical sports. They're designed for it; women aren't. It has always been that way. With some few exceptions, it will always be that way.

You can't fool Mother Nature.

[sowilts]

When women start playing from the black tees and hit as far as men then maybe equal viewership and equal pay. Otherwise, no.
Laura Davies out drives most pros, even now.

[dewilson58]

Laura Davies out drives most pros, even now.

Fake News

Look up facts.

Her average driving distance is 262.
Ranked 29th in LPGA.

Male Pros can't survive on 260 yards in the PGA today.

[blueash]

The United States Women’s National Team (USWNT) earned more money from its male equivalent reaching the knockout stages of the 2022 FIFA World Cup in Qatar than it did from winning its own tournaments in 2015 and 2019.


This is both true and misleading. The US soccer national teams have an agreement that whatever money the men win in FIFA is equally split with the women, and whatever money the women win is equally split with the men. That means in tournaments that the men don't even qualify which happens too often that they still get paid because the women are so successful.

[retiredguy123]

Mama Nature, in her wisdom, has imbued each sex with physical characteristics (Note I said PHYSICAL) related to their biological roles. This can probably every member of the genus Homo that has inhabited this planet, up to and including Homo Sapiens. Women are the homemakers; the keepers of the hearth. They are the gender that conceives, bears and rears children and their bodies are designed for that role. Men on the other hand are designed to be the hunters, the warriors, and the protectors. They are taller, better-muscled, can run faster, jump higher, and throw a spear farther than the female gender can. On the negative side they also die earlier.

Physical sports depends on physical conditioning. Men, being the more physical of the two genders, naturally do better than women in just about all physical sports. They're designed for it; women aren't. It has always been that way. With some few exceptions, it will always be that way.

You can't fool Mother Nature.
It's not just physical sports. Men are more competitive than women at all games, sports, and other competitive endeavors that involves objective scoring. Some examples are billiards, table tennis, chess, archery, shooting, darts, and bowling. I could be wrong, but I don't know of any competitive game or sport where men do not dominate.

[dewilson58]

Men are more competitive than women at all games, sports, and other competitive endeavors.

I don't know of any competitive game or sport where men do not dominate.


U R a brave man!!!

:ho:

[DDToto41]

I don't agree. The purse is based on the amount of money that can be raised to produce and promote the tournament. It's a business, that has income and expenses, like any other business. No one is forcing women to play in a golf tournament. Where do you suggest that the extra money come from?

If you ever watched an LPGA tournament you would see where the money could come from. The PGA seems to take precedence over the LPGA, especially on TV, even the Golf channel puts the PGA over the LPGA. If the TV stations would equalize the time of each group the money would become more even.

[tophcfa]

If you ever watched an LPGA tournament you would see where the money could come from. The PGA seems to take precedence over the LPGA, especially on TV, even the Golf channel puts the PGA over the LPGA. If the TV stations would equalize the time of each group the money would become more even.

Really, the TV stations are in business for profit. They show what generates higher ratings and associated advertising revenue. If the LPGA was more profitable to air, guess what would be on TV.

[ThirdOfFive]

It's not just physical sports. Men are more competitive than women at all games, sports, and other competitive endeavors that involves objective scoring. Some examples are billiards, table tennis, chess, archery, shooting, darts, and bowling. I could be wrong, but I don't know of any competitive game or sport where men do not dominate.
I think that is true of the top echelons of most physical sports. But outside of world-class, men and women can compete equally in a lot of sports. Tennis, for example: my wife regularly puts a solid whoopin' on me most times when she and I play.

I'd be a bit hesitant though about generalizing competitions where the criterion for competing is cerebral rather than physical. I played a whole lot of chess in my younger (university) days. Some of the tournaments I played in had women contestants, most didn't. It just wasn't something women did much back then. Today though it is different. Men still dominate but today there are a respectable number of women in the upper echelons of chess. Judit Polgar, for example, recognized as the top female chess player, achieved a #8 world ranking.

There has been studies about this. One in particular is especially fascinating, showing that achievement in chess may be due not so much to innate ability as to cultural expectations and bias. See below:

"In a 2007 study at the University of Padua, male and female players of similar ability were matched up with each other on online games. When the players were unaware of their opponent's sex, female players won slightly under half their games. When female players were told their opponent was male, they played less aggressively, and they won about one in four games. However, when female players were told their opponent was female, even though they were actually male, they were as aggressive as the male players and won about one in two games. The researchers argued that gender stereotypes may have led female players to lower their self-esteem and self-confidence when they know they are playing male players, causing them to play defensively which worsened their performance." (Maass, Anne; D'Ettole, Claudio; Cadinu, Mara (2007-05-14). "Checkmate? The role of gender stereotypes in the ultimate intellectual sport". European Journal of Social Psychology. 38 (2): 231–245. doi:10.1002/ejsp.440. S2CID 144308852., as quoted in Wikipedia). I don't know of any other studies that confirm this, but it is a fascinating study nonetheless.

There is little question that men excel in physical sports. Cerebral ones? Maybe not so much.

[jebartle]

Dr[QUOTE=dewilson58;2194123]Agree.......................Free Market.

Let's give everyone participation awards.

Let's pay all Doctors, CPA's & Attorneys the same as hamburger

Pay should be somewhat equitable, not GROSSLY unequitable like professional golf. Haven't checked stats but pretty sure Kathy Whitworth had more wins than Tiger and wonder whether in her hay day might have beaten some men headliners, only God knows.

[retiredguy123]

If you ever watched an LPGA tournament you would see where the money could come from. The PGA seems to take precedence over the LPGA, especially on TV, even the Golf channel puts the PGA over the LPGA. If the TV stations would equalize the time of each group the money would become more even.
The 2022 PGA championship final round had 5.27 million television viewers as compared to 860,000 viewers for the LPGA championship final round. That is why the TV stations don't equalize the time. They are in business to make money, and the money comes from their sponsors who pay more based on the viewership.

[jebartle]

The 2022 PGA championship final round had 5.27 television viewers as compared to 860,000 viewers for the LPGA championship final round. That is why the TV stations don't equalize the time. They are in business to make money, and the money comes from their sponsors who pay more based on the viewership.

I'm guessing, the LPGA needs a new commissioner!!!!!

[retiredguy123]

I think that is true of the top echelons of most physical sports. But outside of world-class, men and women can compete equally in a lot of sports. Tennis, for example: my wife regularly puts a solid whoopin' on me most times when she and I play.

I'd be a bit hesitant though about generalizing competitions where the criterion for competing is cerebral rather than physical. I played a whole lot of chess in my younger (university) days. Some of the tournaments I played in had women contestants, most didn't. It just wasn't something women did much back then. Today though it is different. Men still dominate but today there are a respectable number of women in the upper echelons of chess. Judit Polgar, for example, recognized as the top female chess player, achieved a #8 world ranking.

There has been studies about this. One in particular is especially fascinating, showing that achievement in chess may be due not so much to innate ability as to cultural expectations and bias. See below:

"In a 2007 study at the University of Padua, male and female players of similar ability were matched up with each other on online games. When the players were unaware of their opponent's sex, female players won slightly under half their games. When female players were told their opponent was male, they played less aggressively, and they won about one in four games. However, when female players were told their opponent was female, even though they were actually male, they were as aggressive as the male players and won about one in two games. The researchers argued that gender stereotypes may have led female players to lower their self-esteem and self-confidence when they know they are playing male players, causing them to play defensively which worsened their performance." (Maass, Anne; D'Ettole, Claudio; Cadinu, Mara (2007-05-14). "Checkmate? The role of gender stereotypes in the ultimate intellectual sport". European Journal of Social Psychology. 38 (2): 231–245. doi:10.1002/ejsp.440. S2CID 144308852., as quoted in Wikipedia). I don't know of any other studies that confirm this, but it is a fascinating study nonetheless.

There is little question that men excel in physical sports. Cerebral ones? Maybe not so much.
Thanks. Interesting. But, the fact that only 1 percent of chess grandmasters today are women says that they have a long way to go. There is no question that men dominate chess.

I would take issue with the study you cited. I think it is flawed because, in a professional chess tournament, you always know who your opponent is. He or she is sitting at the same table. It is not played online. It only demonstrates that facing your opponent may play a factor in the game. So, to me, the study doesn't have much relevance to actual chess competition. Also, the study is 15 years old.

[RiderOnTheStorm]

LPGA WINNER $270,000 HSBC
PGA WINNER $3,600,000 BAYHILL

Come on, this is ridiculous

Tennis, soccer same for both genders

Basketball, women must supplement income going overseas at sometimes find themselves in prison.

NOT FAIR!!!!!

Sad perhaps, but it is an open market. Participants share in whatever money is generated. Women's golf just doesn't seem to have the same draw.

[ThirdOfFive]

Dr[QUOTE=dewilson58;2194123]Agree.......................Free Market.

Let's give everyone participation awards.

Let's pay all Doctors, CPA's & Attorneys the same as hamburger

Pay should be somewhat equitable, not GROSSLY unequitable like professional golf. Haven't checked stats but pretty sure Kathy Whitworth had more wins than Tiger and wonder whether in her hay day might have beaten some men headliners, only God knows.
Sophistic. None of those wins by Kathy Whitworth were against the opponents who Tiger plays against.

[Kgcetm]

You wanna subsidize the difference. It is fair. Grow your sport.

[BrianL99]

Laura Davies out drives most pros, even now.

That's ridiculous.

Laura Davies' driver distance, never made it close to the average PGA Tour Player, despite the fact that she out-weighed the average PGA Tour player by some 20 lbs.

2020 Laura Davies By The Numbers | LPGA | Ladies Professional Golf Association (https://www.lpga.com/news/2020/2020-laura-davies-by-the-numbers)

[mikemalloy]

LPGA WINNER $270,000 HSBC
PGA WINNER $3,600,000 BAYHILL

Come on, this is ridiculous

Tennis, soccer same for both genders

Basketball, women must supplement income going overseas at sometimes find themselves in prison.

NOT FAIR!!!!!
Minor league baseball players play the same game as Major leaguers but get paid much less. Maybe it's because they don't generate nearly as much income as the big leagues do. The only difference is that they can't play the gender victim game.

[BrianL99]

Dr[QUOTE=dewilson58;2194123] Kathy Whitworth had more wins than Tiger and wonder whether in her hay day might have beaten some men headliners, only God knows.


The level of competition in women's golf when Kathy Whitworth played, was roughly the same level of competition found in Mixed Doubles Curling ... in Jamaica.

[dewilson58]

[QUOTE=jebartle;2194309]Dr
Sophistic. None of those wins by Kathy Whitworth were against the opponents who Tiger plays against.

Wasn't my post..............get your "reply" right.

[dewilson58]

Dr[QUOTE=dewilson58;2194123]Agree.......................Free Market.

Let's give everyone participation awards.

Let's pay all Doctors, CPA's & Attorneys the same as hamburger

Pay should be somewhat equitable, not GROSSLY unequitable like professional golf. Haven't checked stats but pretty sure Kathy Whitworth had more wins than Tiger and wonder whether in her hay day might have beaten some men headliners, only God knows.

Not my post.....................learn how to post.

[Fastskiguy]

I sometimes wonder why people watch women sports. I mean....if it's so you can "watch the best" then you'd watch mens sports. If it's not to watch the elite perform then it must be because you "just want to watch women doing stuff." Which should be a little weird right?

In a lot of sports, middle age amateur men can compete with world class women. Nobody is going to pay anything to watch those guys perform and they are not making any money doing it. But people will pay *at least something* to watch the women. Why?


Joe

[jimjamuser]

You're right, it is ridiculous. I can't believe the LPGA can afford to pay the winner of the HSBC more than $100,000.

Women don't support women's sports and men don't care to watch an inferior product.

Same reason that "Gentlemen's Clubs" out number "Lady's Clubs" by about 10,000:1.

As soon as some woman can compete at golf with Tiger Woods or even John Rahm, things will change ... maybe.
Billy Jean King might disagree with that whole male-oriented concept.

[jimjamuser]

You're right, it is ridiculous. I can't believe the LPGA can afford to pay the winner of the HSBC more than $100,000.

Women don't support women's sports and men don't care to watch an inferior product.

Same reason that "Gentlemen's Clubs" out number "Lady's Clubs" by about 10,000:1.

As soon as some woman can compete at golf with Tiger Woods or even John Rahm, things will change ... maybe.
Women's sports are an INFERIOR PRODUCT ????? Surely that is in jest. What about women's soccer teams that have won the Olympics Gold medals when the men's soccer teams were ONLY average ?????

[jimjamuser]

It's fair due to the quality of skill. A few years ago, a boys' team from Texas u15 or u17 beat the USA women's world cup champions 7 to 2. 100-meter race in track men's time is a second faster than women. I enjoy watching women's sports, but they are not anywhere near the ability or skill of men.
Those are SIMPLY unfair comparisons. Yes, the women play basketball with a SLIGHTLY smaller ball, but their hands are smaller - that can't be held against them. They play a very exciting brand of professional and amateur basketball.
......And of course, women can't QUITE run a 100-yard dash as fast as men can. On average women are slightly shorter so can take SLIGHTLY shorter strides. And women are anatomically designed with larger pelvises for childbirth.
............Incidentally, women tend to live 5 to 7 years longer than men. So they are winning that race.
............Incidentally, shorter men tend to live longer than taller men on average. Per scientific studies.

[jimjamuser]

I have seen great minor league baseball games. The players play harder than major leaguers since they want to get called up.

However, even though the games may be very competitive - the major leaguers get paid a lot more. Average salary for MLB is about $4 million. Minor leaguers make anywhere from $4,800 to $14,700 annually. The high-end of this scale is still below the minimum wage in the United States, which as of 2022, is an annual salary of $15,080 for a full-time worker making the Federal Minimum Wage of $7.50.
I have a theory about this. People go GA, GA over the top level of everything. From primadonna ballerinas and the top male ballet dancers. People get a VICARIOUS THRILL from watching the best of the best .....and THEY get the monetary rewards FOR BEING top dogs. Quarterbacks in pro football get the same GA, GA treatment. There is EVEN a top vocal performer NAMED GA,Ga......which was smart on her part.
.....My theory is that this TOP DOG mentality goes all the way BACK to ancient man and the TRIBAL leader mentality. Very similar to the LEADER dog in a WOLF pack that has the SINGULAR responsibility to get the pack to an advantageous hunting area.
.......People hunger to see the "best of the best" and tend to relatively ignore the rest.
........Years ago, the tennis fans did NOT want to watch the early rounds of a tournament when the ORDINARY highly skilled tennis pros played each other. They waited to see John McEnroe play Boris Becker or Bjorn Borg.

[BrianL99]

Women's sports are an INFERIOR PRODUCT ?????

When is the last time a woman played on the winning team in a World Series?

When's the last time a woman played on the winning team in a Stanley Cup Final?

How many women have played in the Super Bowl?

Who's the last women to beat Rafael Nadal in a Tennis Match?

When is the last time a woman played in the Masters Championship?

Who was the last woman selected as an All Star in the NBA?

I rest my case.

[miharris]

LPGA WINNER $270,000 HSBC
PGA WINNER $3,600,000 BAYHILL

Come on, this is ridiculous

Tennis, soccer same for both genders

Basketball, women must supplement income going overseas at sometimes find themselves in prison.

NOT FAIR!!!!!

So unfair!

And while we're at it, why did Tom Cruise get paid $100 million for "Top Gun Maverick "and Monica Barbaro only got paid $300k? Same movie, they both said words other people wrote, they both looked good. Maybe it's because "Top Gun starring Monica Bardaro" would not have grossed $1.37 billion?

[BrianL99]

So unfair!

And while we're at it, why did Tom Cruise get paid $100 million for "Top Gun Maverick "and Monica Barbaro only got paid $300k? Same movie, they both said words other people wrote, they both looked good. Maybe it's because "Top Gun starring Monica Bardaro" would not have grossed $1.37 billion?

Who's Monica Barbaro ?

[wamley]

Soccer both the same. I don't know where your watching soccer.

[JMintzer]

Laura Davies out drives most pros, even now.

She couldn't crack the top 100 PGA players... Even in her prime...

[JMintzer]

This is both true and misleading. The US soccer national teams have an agreement that whatever money the men win in FIFA is equally split with the women, and whatever money the women win is equally split with the men. That means in tournaments that the men don't even qualify which happens too often that they still get paid because the women are so successful.

And don't forget, in their last contract, the women players opted for payment security, accepting less, but guaranteed payments...

World Cup is only part of what they make...

[JMintzer]

If you ever watched an LPGA tournament you would see where the money could come from. The PGA seems to take precedence over the LPGA, especially on TV, even the Golf channel puts the PGA over the LPGA. If the TV stations would equalize the time of each group the money would become more even.

They know exactly what the ratings are for men's vs women's tournaments...

If less are watching the current tournaments, what makes you think the numbers would grow if they showed more?

[JMintzer]

Women's sports are an INFERIOR PRODUCT ????? Surely that is in jest. What about women's soccer teams that have won the Olympics Gold medals when the men's soccer teams were ONLY average ?????

Look at NON World Cup or Olympic soccer ratings and get back to me...

[JMintzer]

Who's Monica Barbaro ?

Exactly...

[jimjamuser]

True--sort of--

That 5-set thing for men's tennis applies only to the four major "grand slam" tournaments (Australian Open, French Open, Wimbledon, and the U.S. Open). The ATP Final and Indian Wells used to play five, but now only three. Fan attendance at the slam matches is pretty much equal men to women, and TV viewership for the grand slam events are also roughly equal, men and women. The prize money at the slams is equal, men to women, which makes sense considering the roughly equal fan attendance, media coverage, etc. for both genders.

Things drop off at non-slam events. There are roughly equal numbers of WTA (women's pro tennis) and ATP (Men's pro tennis) events per year. But the women's events just don't draw as many viewers at the matches, and "In total, the women’s competitions received 41% less media coverage than the men’s". ("Gender Media Coverage in Tennis", signal-ai dot com).

I love watching tennis, of whatever gender. But it is a fact that the games don't compare well. There are a few women's pro tennis players who have beaten men's pro players but those are the very occasional exceptions to a pretty rigid rule.

This, from topend sports dot com: "During the 1998 Australian Open, sisters Serena and Venus Williams boasted that they could beat any man ranked outside the world's top 200. The challenge was accepted by Karsten Braasch, a German player ranked No 203 (his highest ranking was No 38). Before the matches, Braasch played a round of golf in the morning, drank a couple of beers, smoked a few cigarettes, and then played the Williams sisters for a set each, one after the other. He defeated Serena, 6-1, and Venus, 6-2. Serena said afterwards "I didn't know it would be that hard. I hit shots that would have been winners on the women's tour and he got to them easily."

Facts are neither fair nor unfair. They are merely facts. And it is a fact that women's pro tennis is an inferior product to men's pro tennis.
That WAS a GOOD example about the # 203 man. I was surprised that the Williams sisters would play that match. It was a lose / lose for women's tennis. The women pros starting with Billy Jean King pointed out that the women deserved equal pay because their matches are EQUALLY exciting to watch as the men. Both are competing with EQUALS. To try to compare male to female tennis players is non-productive.
.......About 50 % of ANY tennis audience is women, so the advertisers NEED to support the women as much as the MEN.
......When I played tennis (at a high state level) I found that I learned more about strategy by watching the women players, not the men. The men served WAY faster than I ever could so there was nothing that I could LEARN from the men's game as compared with watching the SLOW MO and technique of the WOMEN.
.......Take Cris Evert for example, she was NOT strong, NOT fast, have VERY basic reproducible strokes. so, how did she get to be # 1.........BECAUSE SHE WAS MENTALLY TOUGH in her game. And THAT was a GREAT lesson for the average MALE or FEMALE amateur player! Bottom line ......you can LEARN more by watching FEMALE tennis players.
.....And I don't watch Golf, but I imagine it is the same in golf - better to LEARN by watching the female players

[Matt.Roberts]

Which sports, men’s or women’s, bring in more revenue/viewers? Until women’s sports pull in the same revenue that men’s sports do, there will be a disparity in salaries, prize money, etc.

[dewilson58]

Which sports, men’s or women’s, bring in more revenue/viewers? Until women’s sports pull in the same revenue that men’s sports do, there will be a disparity in salaries, prize money, etc.

You know that.
I know that.
Jeb just doesn't like reality.

:clap2:

[golfing eagles]

Women's sports are an INFERIOR PRODUCT ????? Surely that is in jest. What about women's soccer teams that have won the Olympics Gold medals when the men's soccer teams were ONLY average ?????

Oh, I didn't realize that those women's soccer teams won a gold medal playing against men's teams.

Also, I don't recall any women's Olympic soccer gold medals being won by men's teams and vice versa.

[Two Bills]

Oh, I didn't realize that those women's soccer teams won a gold medal playing against men's teams.

Also, I don't recall any women's Olympic soccer gold medals being won by men's teams and vice versa.

Given the latest gender options in sport, that could all change. :icon_wink:

[Rainger99]

LPGA WINNER $270,000 HSBC
PGA WINNER $3,600,000 BAYHILL

Tennis, soccer same for both.
NOT FAIR!!!!!

Most of the golf prize money comes from television revenue. If the women golfers had the same ratings as men, their prize money would be equal.

The only reason women tennis players get as much as men is because it is one tournament and the revenue is shared. Most revenue comes from broadcast rights, followed by ticket sales, and sponsorships.

Do you think any of the women want to have their own tennis tournament a few weeks before the men play and see what the TV ratings are? And the purses?

That is what golf does - separate major tournaments for men and women.

In 2022, Wimbledon viewers

Men’s final peaks at 7.5m on BBC One.
Women’s final at 3.

The men draw more than twice the viewership (which is the money) and they get paid the same as the women.

If a salesman was bringing in 2.5 times the sales than a saleswoman, and they both got paid the same, that would be unfair.

[JP]

Women will always be smaller, weaker and slower than men and hence they can't play the same as men. It's just the way it is. Because of this, their sports games are not as entertaining to watch and people don't which means less revenue and smaller purses.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Why is this unfair? First of all, money in professional sports is based on what advertisers will pay for ads.

Secondly, the LPGA is basically a minor league tour. No offense is meant by that but any tour or league or sports organization that has a qualifier in front of it's name is restricted. Lady's, women's, Senior's Junior, special needs etc are not open to the best players in the world. They are restricted to certain athletes.

The PGA tour is open to anyone that can qualify to play in it. If a woman can qualify on the PGA tour, then she would be eligible to make the same money as men on that tour. And if you think that the LPGA tour is not restricted to women, what do you think would happen if a male player on the Korn Ferry Tour decided to enter the LPGA qualifying.

There have been a few women that have played an event or two on the PGA tour but none have been successful. Some may feel that they'd make more money being at the top of the LPGA tour rankings than they would being 150th on the PGA Tour.

WNBA? If any of those women could compete in the NBA, they'd probably be allowed to play there.

Tennis is different. For some reason there is huge interest in women's tennis. This attracts big money to be invested in it. Advertisers are willing to put up a lot more money because they know people are watching.

I can't explain it but the fact is that other women's sports are nowhere as popular as women's tennis.

But unfair?? No it's all perfectly fair.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Women will always be smaller, weaker and slower than men and hence they can't play the same as men. It's just the way it is. Because of this, their sports games are not as entertaining to watch and people don't which means less revenue and smaller purses.

I wouldn't say that they're not as entertaining to watch, but they are not the unqualified "best in the world" at what they do. They are the best women in the world at what they do.

A better comparison would be the Champions Tour. Why are they not making as much as the PGA Tour? Because in the spite of the fact that they are the best players in the world over 50 years of age, they are not longer the best in the world period. If I'm not mistaken purses on the LPGA tour are higher than on the Champions tour. Is that unfair?

[dewilson58]

Yes, totally unfair...................LPGA has beautiful women............PGA, ugh.

[kkingston57]

My wife's former hairdresser, back in Minnesota, charged $120 for a cut and color. Took about two hours, so based on that, he could do maybe four in a day. Pretty good money.

A cut-and-color by one of the hairdresser's (female) at Cal's Barber Shop here in TV costs $68.00. Same time spent. Same result.

Is this "fair"?

And why or why not?

To answer your question, using this scenario this is fair in a free market economy. As we evolve fairness is going to get worse. For example we are loosing GP doctors and other lower specialty doctors at a rapid rate since a lot of doctors are getting advanced certificates and making 5X(and even more) than a GP and there is very little financial incentive for a GP. Had an achilles tendon surgery 10 years ago and doctor was paid $800 for a 1 hour surgery and 3 office visits and he was a specialist. I expected a bill for about $2,000 and would have paid it in a heartbeat if I did not have insurance.

[Miboater]

A few days ago I received an email from a LPGA tournament up in Michigan this summer. They were selling day passes for $10 and they were good Thursday though Sunday. I believe that one of the reasons why the purses are so low.

If you want to watch something funny about this topic, YouTube "Bill Burr women's sports". Lots of swearing but really funny.