Shooting at Applebee's in Lady Lake this morning. (Tuesday).

[Taltarzac725]

This involved a fatality and an argument but the facts are under investigation. One of those involved had a concealed gun carry permit.

Applebee’s patron shoots, kills man inside The Villages restaurant, police say (https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2023/03/07/applebees-patron-shoots-kills-man-inside-the-villages-restaurant-police-say/)

[dewilson58]

The lack of facts 30 hours later is interesting.

Participants of the outdoor shooting is still walking around free.

Check your chamber.

[Get real]

Is Applebees competing with Margarita Republic for the most dangerous place in The Villages?

[JGibson]

In NYC this would’ve never made the paper. Shows you how rare these occurrences are and how safe TV is.

[mrf0151]

Applebee's is open at 1am?????? Somethings not right with this whole story.

[ThirdOfFive]

In NYC this would’ve never made the paper. Shows you how rare these occurrences are and how safe TV is.
Bingo.

Sad, but true.

I recall a few weeks back when someone got arrested and charged with a 3rd degree felony (in Lady Lake I believe though I may be wrong on the location) for shoplifting 2 containers of ice cream and one of whipped cream from a convenience store. Cops would be guffawing loudly if such a thing were even reported the great majority of the areas most of us come from.

This death (even though we don’t know the particulars yet) is regrettable. But everything is relative. Law Enforcement will solve this promptly and the law will function as it should.In that respect, Villagers are lucky people.

[Boffin]

This is not NYC.

[Bogie Shooter]

To carry or not to carry? Will be debated on the next 50 posts.

[Chi-Town]

From WESH 2 news (of course).

Florida Applebee's shooting leaves man dead (https://www.wesh.com/article/man-shot-killed-applebees-florida/43233991)

.

[Dusty_Star]

Applebee's is open at 1am?????? Somethings not right with this whole story.

Applebee's is open until 1 am, except Friday & Saturday, when it stays open until 2 am.

[bagboy]

///

[tophcfa]

Applebee's is open until 1 am, except Friday & Saturday, when it stays open until 2 am.

I’ll remember that next time I’m craving some lousy food after midnight, which will be never.

[coffeebean]

Applebee's is open at 1am?????? Somethings not right with this whole story.
According to Google maps, Applebees is open until 1:00 am. Hubby and I were there yesterday afternoon when the remote news teams were setting up for their reporting of the incident. One of the reporters told us what was going on when we asked him.

[Taltarzac725]

According to Google maps, Applebees is open until 1:00 am. Hubby and I were there yesterday afternoon when the remote news teams were setting up for their reporting of the incident. One of the reporters told us what was going on when we asked him.

My older brother and his wife have eaten at that Applebee's. They like their food. Sad that this happened. It will probably take a while for the facts to get out as I expect lawyers have been hired who are telling those involved to keep quiet as the police investigate.

[RedChariot]

In NYC this would’ve never made the paper. Shows you how rare these occurrences are and how safe TV is.

This is SUPPOSED to be a retirement community! This is not what I envisioned when moving here 11 years ago. The direction this community is taking saddens me.

[Whitley]

If you want to be entertained (and have no concerns for your bodily safety) go to a Waffle House after midnight.

[Spalumbos62]

I’ll remember that next time I’m craving some lousy food after midnight, which will be never.

Comment not necessary....

[ThirdOfFive]

This is SUPPOSED to be a retirement community! This is not what I envisioned when moving here 11 years ago. The direction this community is taking saddens me.
Remember Vern Gagne? The professional wrestler from the 1960s or so? Well, even wrestlers retire and suffer the effects of aging. Vern was in a memory-care unit when another resident apparently got on his nerves. Vern body-slammed the guy and killed him. No charges because Vern was apparently suffering from advanced dementia.

We don't know at this point if the incident involved Villagers or not. Nor did the incident take place IN The Villages. But be that as it may there are 150,000 or so of us living here. None of us became angels on the day we retired, nor did we leave our likes, dislikes, prejudices, opinions, behavioral traits, etc. etc. from the place we moved from, when we moved here. We're human. We're all pretty much who we were all our lives, and with 150,000 of us in one spot, more or less, things like this WILL happen.

[Stu from NYC]

Not sure if I can believe this as it was not in the Sun this AM.

[fdpaq0580]

Comment not necessary....

I agree! Your comment was not necessary. Neither is mine.

[UpNorth]

Not sure if I can believe this as it was not in the Sun this AM.

Page C4

[Kenswing]

NOTHING good happens after midnight.

[Taltarzac725]

Page C4

I will have to look there. Did not see anything the first time around. Top right corner has a few paragraphs.

[justjim]

I will have to look there. Did not see anything the first time around. Top right corner has a few paragraphs.

Don’t feel bad I missed the small article in The Daily Sun too. Although Applebees may not technically be in The villages, most consider that shopping and restaurant area to be The Villages as it is accessible by golf cart.

[christine J Toft]

This involved a fatality and an argument but the facts are under investigation. One of those involved had a concealed gun carry permit.

Applebee’s patron shoots, kills man inside The Villages restaurant, police say (https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2023/03/07/applebees-patron-shoots-kills-man-inside-the-villages-restaurant-police-say/)

Concealed carry... And? No information saying the man shot was armed. Since when do you kill a man for putting his hand in his pocket? There may be much more to this story. A Concealed Carry is not a license to shoot at will.

[Taltarzac725]

Concealed carry... And? No information saying the man shot was armed. Since when do you kill a man for putting his hand in his pocket? There may be much more to this story. A Concealed Carry is not a license to shoot at will.

Hopefully more information will come out. The reporting has been very limited about who did what to whom and why.

[Taltarzac725]

Don’t feel bad I missed the small article in The Daily Sun too. Although Applebees may not technically be in The villages, most consider that shopping and restaurant area to be The Villages as it is accessible by golf cart.

Lady Lake contains the oldest parts of the Villages.

[Taltarzac725]

From WESH 2 news (of course).

Florida Applebee's shooting leaves man dead (https://www.wesh.com/article/man-shot-killed-applebees-florida/43233991)

.

Has more details. Still leaves a lot of questions unanswered. Like who fired the shots outside and whether or not anything was in the pockets of the victim of the shooting?
And what words were spoken and by whom? Law enforcement usually know what they are doing so I expect the facts will come out.

[maggie1]

Not sure if I can believe this as it was not in the Sun this AM.

Well, actually it was in the Sun. Check page C3, the obituaries. And that is not a "snarky" or uncaring comment, it really is there.

[lindaelane]

Hopefully more information will come out. The reporting has been very limited about who did what to whom and why.

We don't know the details of what happened. The most likely scenario is that the man entered the restaurant with gun still in hand.

Don't assume people are "bad" because they have a gun for self-defense. Lives may have been saved by the person with a concealed carry permit. I support hand guns for self-defense possessed by sane, law-abiding citizens. When we take all unlawful guns away from criminals, then we can start taking lawful guns away from the general population.

[Taltarzac725]

We don't know the details of what happened. The most likely scenario is that the man entered the restaurant with gun still in hand.

Don't assume people are "bad" because they have a gun for self-defense. Lives may have been saved by the person with a concealed carry permit. I support hand guns for self-defense possessed by sane, law-abiding citizens. When we take all unlawful guns away from criminals, then we can start taking lawful guns away from the general population.

That is not in the facts. He was reaching in his pocket according to witnesses or maybe as told by the shooter. They have not said what was in those pockets. Hopefully someone had their phone out and was recording or that the restaurant has surveillance cameras.

[JGibson]

This is SUPPOSED to be a retirement community! This is not what I envisioned when moving here 11 years ago. The direction this community is taking saddens me.

Maybe you would feel safer on Mars.

Seriously, TV is one of the safest communities in the country. Some people don't know when they have it good.

There is no place in America where some level of crime doesn't happen.

If you find a safer place besides Mars, let us know.

[dewilson58]

Facts have not been published.

Based on "stories", pretty quick trigger finger.

:ho:

[RICH1]

Why isn’t the information getting out on this Thwarted Attempted Robbery ?

[RiderOnTheStorm]

Not sure if I can believe this as it was not in the Sun this AM.

The Sun doesn't report bad news.

[ThirdOfFive]

That is not in the facts. He was reaching in his pocket according to witnesses or maybe as told by the shooter. They have not said what was in those pockets. Hopefully someone had their phone out and was recording or that the restaurant has surveillance cameras.
According to the information available, there were shots fired outside prior to the shooting. In the parking lot? If the shooter reasonably believed that he or others present risked life or great bodily harm when the person killed entered the restaurant and reached for his pocket, then at this point it would appear to be a justified shooting.

Stress "at this point". There is still a lot we don't know and that may be a completely wrong assumption. But if this story proceeds along the lines of most others of this nature, we can be assured that The Court of Public Opinion will have one side or the other tried, convicted and hung quite a long time before we know the complete story.

[Dantes]

They have a bar

[Dantes]

I haven’t seen nothing yet
Wait until the apartment complexes are completed tens of thousands of non-retirees. The villages will be easy pickings

[airstreamingypsy]

We don't know the details of what happened. The most likely scenario is that the man entered the restaurant with gun still in hand.

Don't assume people are "bad" because they have a gun for self-defense. Lives may have been saved by the person with a concealed carry permit. I support hand guns for self-defense possessed by sane, law-abiding citizens. When we take all unlawful guns away from criminals, then we can start taking lawful guns away from the general population.

I thought guns were not allowed at places that sell alcohol. It may have been a good shoot, but the shooter could still be in trouble for it. I hope for his sake the the deceased had a gun.

[justjim]

In a larger city, the chief of police would be on television with more details of this shooting. Just saying.

[retiredguy123]

I thought guns were not allowed at places that sell alcohol. It may have been a good shoot, but the shooter could still be in trouble for it. I hope for his sake the the deceased had a gun.
Not exactly. Applebees is primarily a restaurant, but they do have a bar. You can carry a firearm into a restaurant, but you cannot bring it into the bar area. You are only prohibited from carrying a firearm in an establishment whose primary purpose is to sell alcohol.

[MandoMan]

Applebee's is open at 1am?????? Somethings not right with this whole story.

Yes, until 1am. Perkins is open until midnight. Margarita Republic is open until 2 am. Surprised me, too. I thought everything around here closed down around 8. But I wouldn’t want to go to any of them at that hour if that’s the sort of clientele they draw.

[JRcorvette]

Very few facts have been released on the shooting. I am guessing that the man who was shot was carrying a gun and who knows what he was saying or how he was acting.

[mrf0151]

Applebee's is open until 1 am, except Friday & Saturday, when it stays open until 2 am.
Begs the question, WHY?

[RedChariot]

Maybe you would feel safer on Mars.

Seriously, TV is one of the safest communities in the country. Some people don't know when they have it good.

There is no place in America where some level of crime doesn't happen.

If you find a safer place besides Mars, let us know.

My point is that this is a retirement community. Or am i in a fantasy land believing that?! I understand every city in the U.S. is ridden with crime. Just seems to me we should not have people shot dead in a community of retirees.

[dewilson58]

Begs the question, WHY?

People in this world work different shifts.......................midnight might be breakfast, lunch or dinner for some.

[jimkerr]

Applebee's is open at 1am?????? Somethings not right with this whole story.

Yes they are open till 1 am. Fridays it’s 2 am!

[jimkerr]

Begs the question, WHY?

Because they are a business trying to make money.

[Robbb]

Applebee's is open at 1am?????? Somethings not right with this whole story.

I know, who goes to Applebees at 1 am, do you know how bad that food is for you?

[Taltarzac725]

My point is that this is a retirement community. Or am i in a fantasy land believing that?! I understand every city in the U.S. is ridden with crime. Just seems to me we should not have people shot dead in a community of retirees.

Only a couple that I know of here in the Villages. Two or three since they built the Villages. That is murders not suicides.

[jakers]

This is SUPPOSED to be a retirement community! This is not what I envisioned when moving here 11 years ago. The direction this community is taking saddens me.
Where will you go to feel safer?

[Michael 61]

The Villages are relatively safe - however I’m learning if there are stories like this, more times than not they occur in the northeastern/Spanish Springs/ Lady Lake quadrant of The Villages

[Taltarzac725]

Black victim. Drugs involved. Watch and learn.

I am glad that the Lady Lake Police are doing this carefully and not bringing the media in too soon. Especially with facts like these.

[MrFlorida]

This is SUPPOSED to be a retirement community! This is not what I envisioned when moving here 11 years ago. The direction this community is taking saddens me.

Unfortunally, we are not shielded from outside interests in the Villages, anybody can enter and visit at will, the squares are full of outsiders. So, unless you lock yourself in your house 24 hours a day, this can happen anywhere.

[dewilson58]

Black victim. Drugs involved. Watch and learn.

I think there is a name for this type of poster.

[MrFlorida]

I thought guns were not allowed at places that sell alcohol. It may have been a good shoot, but the shooter could still be in trouble for it. I hope for his sake the the deceased had a gun.

According to Florida law, you may carry a concealed weapon in places that serve alcohol, as long as food is also served.... A bar that serves only alcohol, is prohibited from concealed carry.

[joelfmi]

wrong!

[Rainger99]

According to the article, shots were fired outside so the employees locked the doors of the restaurant and called 911. The man tried to enter the restaurant through the front door but it was locked. At that point, a woman who was already inside the restaurant opened a side door and let the man inside.

Is there any reason why a woman would let a man with a gun inside the restaurant?

[dewilson58]

Is there any reason why a woman would let a man with a gun inside the restaurant?

Love.

[Pairadocs]

Is Applebees competing with Margarita Republic for the most dangerous place in The Villages?

Do you really think Applebee's had anything to do with it ? Interesting thought. The woman inside, who let the "shooter" (?) from out in the parking lot into the restaurant... think she was an employee or just a customer finishing up her meal after restaurant was closed ? Also doubt Margarita Republic wants to be known as "dangerous", or had anything to do with the incident(s). Is it human nature ? Or the free flowing alcohol in a community where the population has all day long (IF they choose), to do nothing but drink alcohol ? As the population grows, and grows, and grows, anywhere, the problematic individuals increase, and increase, and increase !

[Pairadocs]

That is not in the facts. He was reaching in his pocket according to witnesses or maybe as told by the shooter. They have not said what was in those pockets. Hopefully someone had their phone out and was recording or that the restaurant has surveillance cameras.

Totally agree. The "facts" and important "details" of this are really missing in the public report of it. Concerning weapons, concealed carry, etc. etc. The part most people do not get, in their sincere desire to stop senseless killings and crime, is that passing additional "laws" beyond a "reasonable" process (such as permits, or excluding those who have mental problems, etc. Do we ever REALLY know if an individual has "mental problems") really seem to be a frustrated public's fruitless effort to continue to make sure the "wrong" people do not get their hands on fire arms. When you think about that, does anyone really think this newest idea, that banks and credit card companies must report individuals who purchase fire arms by check or CC, is going to work ? How many gang members and career criminals actually purchase their fire arms with their credit cards ? How many people lie on "questionnaires" ? It's similar to all the killing you read about by SUV's (you never see an article where a person was killed by a "Ford coupe", or a "Chevy sedan", nope, it's always an SUV ! But, was it the vehicle or the driver ? Is it the gun or the person holding it ? Could we stop all this needless death, far more than shootings, by passing more and more laws concerning who can purchase an SUV, or any vehicle ? Should be prevent the purchase of a vehicle by individuals with a history of alcohol abuse, DUI, suspended license ? I personally don't think people think through these troubling questions in a logical way. Thinking these types of problems can be solved, or even controlled, by man passing more laws? Not going to work in MHO !

[Pairadocs]

In NYC this would’ve never made the paper. Shows you how rare these occurrences are and how safe TV is.

Probably true, if we really want to compare though, wouldn't we have to compare the number of incidents in the V's compared to the total number of residents and same with NYC to get an accurate pictures. Would seem to be the way to get a more accurate picture, meaning any town with 10K people, that has 100 armed robberies annually, or a town/city with 2.7 million and has 10K armed robberies annually..... would be interesting if our daily paper would publish the actual police blotter like you see in most newspapers. Always difficult to determine actual crime stats, as there are just so many ways to set up the equation used to figure them !

[Pairadocs]

Facts have not been published.

Based on "stories", pretty quick trigger finger.

:ho:

You can say that again, and again, and AGAIN... food for the masses to consume... LOL ! Few facts or details, a LOT of questions of who is/was connected to who. Any restaurant employees have any connects at all ? Just too many questions. Watch the Daily Sun for the facts when they come out.

[jimjamuser]

Bingo.

Sad, but true.

I recall a few weeks back when someone got arrested and charged with a 3rd degree felony (in Lady Lake I believe though I may be wrong on the location) for shoplifting 2 containers of ice cream and one of whipped cream from a convenience store. Cops would be guffawing loudly if such a thing were even reported the great majority of the areas most of us come from.

This death (even though we don’t know the particulars yet) is regrettable. But everything is relative. Law Enforcement will solve this promptly and the law will function as it should.In that respect, Villagers are lucky people.
Considering the size and rapid growth of the Villages, we NEED MORE Police. We are an INVITING TARGET.

[Bogie Shooter]

Considering the size and rapid growth of the Villages, we NEED MORE Police. We are an INVITING TARGET.

More police, to do what?

[Pairadocs]

Applebee's is open until 1 am, except Friday & Saturday, when it stays open until 2 am.

Have they always had these hours, until 2 a.m. on weekend, 1 a.m. other days ? I truly don't remember, but thought came to me, is this an attempt to try to recover from the devastation of covid ? Just a thought, perhaps that's the standard hours of Applebee's everywhere ? Nothing scientific, just anecdotal...but it seems the food establishments that have extended, or all night hours, attract a higher percentage (not ALL, but a higher percentage) of "troubled" or impaired guests ! ? Maybe mom's advice about nothing good happens after midnight, or even 11 p.m., might not be bad advice...LOL !

[retiredguy123]

More police, to do what?
Maybe they could arrest criminals?

[Pairadocs]

Why isn’t the information getting out on this Thwarted Attempted Robbery ?

Was it an actual robbery attempt ? Maybe the restaurant does not want the publicity ? Maybe an employee(s) were involved, maybe The Villages does not want these things made public knowledge (harms the "perfect" image) ? A LOT of "maybes"... the entertaining part of these types of social media sites, we can all express our "maybes' ...LOL !

[dewilson58]

More police, to do what?

Maybe if you get more police, they will build more sidewalks.

:beer3:

[Pairadocs]

The Sun doesn't report bad news.

Oh, NO ? Really ? LOL ! But it's good for early bird coupons right ? LOL, LOL, LOL.

[Pairadocs]

Maybe if you get more police, they will build more sidewalks.

:beer3:

This thread could be in the running for most entertaining of '23 !

[retiredguy123]

Was it an actual robbery attempt ? Maybe the restaurant does not want the publicity ? Maybe an employee(s) were involved, maybe The Villages does not want these things made public knowledge (harms the "perfect" image) ? A LOT of "maybes"... the entertaining part of these types of social media sites, we can all express our "maybes' ...LOL !
Although, it does seem strange that the police report wouldn't state whether or not the dead man had a gun.

[Pairadocs]

The Villages are relatively safe - however I’m learning if there are stories like this, more times than not they occur in the northeastern/Spanish Springs/ Lady Lake quadrant of The Villages

Really ? We have a ghetto ? Really ? That sure was not the plan or intent of the founder ! Are you sure that people are "better" (morally better grounded, spiritually aware, honest, etc.) depending on WHICH village the buy/live in ? Interesting "theory", worth thinking about. What do the real estate agents advise ? Do they inform retirees of the "good" (meaning safe villages) and the dangerous areas ? A lot for potential buyers to consider !

[Pairadocs]

Considering the size and rapid growth of the Villages, we NEED MORE Police. We are an INVITING TARGET.

I do agree that retirement communities in general, are "target" areas to some extent. Even to "service" providers, the sub-standard type "business" people who lie about licenses, registrations with the state, etc. Would more police stop the growing problem of crime nation wide, and here ? Maybe. Would not hurt I suppose, but how many communities are not having problems just finding suitable officers ? We seem to have a lot of alcohol fueled "incidents" here, not a prohibition proponent, we KNOW that does not work, but, alcohol does seem to play into a lot of incidents that reflect POOR or impaired judgment ! :ohdear::ohdear::ohdear:

[Pairadocs]

I haven’t seen nothing yet
Wait until the apartment complexes are completed tens of thousands of non-retirees. The villages will be easy pickings

I'm not being sarcastic, but do you think that non-retirees are going to drink more (or less) than retirees, or have more metal deterioration or judgment impairments ? Fewer troubling personality and character "defects" ? Interesting to contemplate, do working people actually cause more "trouble" ? I have no idea, but interesting to ponder !

[Pairadocs]

Only a couple that I know of here in the Villages. Two or three since they built the Villages. That is murders not suicides.

Oh my goodness no, that is not correct. Soon after we built in 2004, a couple was shot dead by robbers in their home in a Marion county village, and we live in a village just north of Lake Sumter, and had FBI, etc. etc. here investigating a killing (not suicide). I think you may have that impression because murders here are, as much as possible, kept as quiet as possible, more so than in most communities.

[Pairadocs]

Although, it does seem strange that the police report wouldn't state whether or not the dead man had a gun.

Could be, but then, maybe not so strange for our community where "facts" are rarely available, and we have only one daily paper. On the other hand, concerning the college student murders in Idaho, the police really kept a lid on ANY facts getting out and into print, so it's not uncommon for "us" observers to know little, or nothing, of the facts ! ?

[Taltarzac725]

Oh my goodness no, that is not correct. Soon after we built in 2004, a couple was shot dead by robbers in their home in a Marion county village, and we live in a village just north of Lake Sumter, and had FBI, etc. etc. here investigating a killing (not suicide). I think you may have that impression because murders here are, as much as possible, kept as quiet as possible, more so than in most communities.

I believe just the mother of the daughter who had a boyfriend involved with the drug trade up in Ocala died. The husband was wounded.
RENALDO DEVON McGIRTH v. STATE OF FLORIDA (2010) | FindLaw (https://caselaw.findlaw.com/fl-supreme-court/1544326.html)

[Taltarzac725]

They are probably worried about hearing from Ben Crump Ben Crump - Trial Lawyer for Justice (https://bencrump.com/) if anything is off in this shooting. He does seem to show up almost every time there is a heavily media covered death involving a black man or woman and a police department and with other wrongful death cases.

[JMintzer]

Do you really think Applebee's had anything to do with it ? Interesting thought. The woman inside, who let the "shooter" (?) from out in the parking lot into the restaurant... think she was an employee or just a customer finishing up her meal after restaurant was closed ? Also doubt Margarita Republic wants to be known as "dangerous", or had anything to do with the incident(s). Is it human nature ? Or the free flowing alcohol in a community where the population has all day long (IF they choose), to do nothing but drink alcohol ? As the population grows, and grows, and grows, anywhere, the problematic individuals increase, and increase, and increase !

Why do you assume it was someone living in TV that was involved?

You DO realize that this restaurant is on the edges of TV and serves a diverse cross section of the local population, right? Especially in the later hours of the evening...

[JMintzer]

Considering the size and rapid growth of the Villages, we NEED MORE Police. We are an INVITING TARGET.

Who in TV was a target on this shooting?

[JMintzer]

Maybe they could arrest criminals?

That is typically done AFTER a crime has been committed...

[JMintzer]

Maybe if you get more police, they will build more sidewalks.

:beer3:

:bigbow::bigbow::bigbow:

[JMintzer]

Really ? We have a ghetto ? Really ? That sure was not the plan or intent of the founder ! Are you sure that people are "better" (morally better grounded, spiritually aware, honest, etc.) depending on WHICH village the buy/live in ? Interesting "theory", worth thinking about. What do the real estate agents advise ? Do they inform retirees of the "good" (meaning safe villages) and the dangerous areas ? A lot for potential buyers to consider !

Who (besides you) mentioned a "ghetto"? :(

[JMintzer]

Could be, but then, maybe not so strange for our community where "facts" are rarely available, and we have only one daily paper. On the other hand, concerning the college student murders in Idaho, the police really kept a lid on ANY facts getting out and into print, so it's not uncommon for "us" observers to know little, or nothing, of the facts ! ?

One site also stated that the shooting occurred @ "1:00, just in time for the LUNCH rush"...

I'm sure that wasn't in the police report...

[retiredguy123]

That is typically done AFTER a crime has been committed...
Are you implying that the guns that were fired in the parking lot were legally purchased, and that none of the people involved had outstanding arrest warrants, or were possessing illegal drugs? Those are all crimes, for which the police could have made arrests.

[Taltarzac725]

Stuff does seem to happen in the Lady Lake area of the Villages more often. The Melinda Duckett suicide was somewhere up there. That case was national news so there was a lot of material in The Villages Daily Sun about it.

Probably there is more news of the bad kind happening because of 441/27 and the people coming in from there.

We never did learn what happened to Trenton Duckett.

[JMintzer]

Are you implying that the guns that were fired in the parking lot were legally purchased, and that none of the people involved had outstanding arrest warrants, or were possessing illegal drugs? Those are all crimes, for which the police could have made arrests.

Don't know how you came up with that conclusion from what I posted, but like I said... They -could- have been arrested AFTER those crimes were committed...

Now, unless you propose police stop every single person they see, how exactly do you expect them to arrest everyone with an outstanding warrant, or someone possessing illegal drugs or carrying an illegal firearm?

[retiredguy123]

Don't know how you came up with that conclusion from what I posted, but like I said... They -could- have been arrested AFTER those crimes were committed...

Now, unless you propose police stop every single person they see, how exactly do you expect them to arrest everyone with an outstanding warrant, or someone possessing illegal drugs or carrying an illegal firearm?
Just responding to the poster who said we need more police. I agree. We need more law enforcement than we currently have.

[JMintzer]

Just responding to the poster who said we need more police. I agree. We need more law enforcement than we currently have.

Well... You DID quote ME in your reply, so...

[Taltarzac725]

Just responding to the poster who said we need more police. I agree. We need more law enforcement than we currently have.

There are various police departments involved with watching the Villages--Lady Lake, Wildwood, Fruitland Park, Bushnell, and probably others as well.

And a lot of Villagers are armed.

[dewilson58]

There are various police departments involved with watching the Villages--Lady Lake, Wildwood, Fruitland Park, Bushnell, and probably others as well.

And a lot of Villagers are armed.

Hate to add facts, but given the low crime in TV, given the officers per 10,000 population..............I wonder what the is the basis for needing more officers (of other posters).

:shrug:


((maybe to track down all the gate breakers))

[MrFlorida]

The police are only here to take a report after the fact. Your personal safety is up to you.

[larbud]

The police are only here to take a report after the fact. Your personal safety is up to you.

Looks like to Me an unruly multiculturist earned his just rewards at the hands of a concerned Citizen🤔🤔

[Taltarzac725]

There are various police departments involved with watching the Villages--Lady Lake, Wildwood, Fruitland Park, Bushnell, and probably others as well.

And a lot of Villagers are armed.


And, of course, Welcome to Sumter County, FL (https://www.sumtercountysheriff.org/)

Welcome to Sumter County, FL (https://www.sumtercountysheriff.org/inside_the_scso/mission_statement.php)

They cover a lot of ground like the Florida Highway Patrol.

[Taltarzac725]

The police are only here to take a report after the fact. Your personal safety is up to you.

I recall taking care of a couple of retired realtors' home in an area of Palm Harbor that had a lot of working law enforcement with their families. There was a bank robbery one night and a chase developed. The couple abandoned their car to flee on foot right outside this neighborhood of cops. Well of several LEOs. The ended up hiding on the roof of the house next door to the couple I house sat for in Palm Harbor and also very close to a Middle School. They tossed their weapons in various gardens from the roof but one of them as far as I know was never found. This was after a police helicopter had followed the couple from where they had jumped a fence and went I into that community. The spotlight of the helicopter had woke up the two realtors and their two Westies.

[Ele201]

I know, who goes to Applebees at 1 am, do you know how bad that food is for you?
Is the food any better for someone if they go earlier in the evening to Applebee’s? Granted, eating that late at night isn’t good for you. But we don’t need the chain restaurant “police” telling us what’s good or bad for us. Let people eat what they want, it’s up to them!

[Ele201]

Applebee's is open at 1am?????? Somethings not right with this whole story.
I was surprised about that as well. I checked online, and sure enough, Applebee’s is open until 1am weeknights and 2am on weekends. Why? I don’t know of anyone having dinner or drinks that late in The Villages.

[dewilson58]

I was surprised about that as well. I checked online, and sure enough, Applebee’s is open until 1am weeknights and 2am on weekends. Why? I don’t know of anyone having dinner or drinks that late in The Villages.

Educate yourself...........................there are people working different shifts, working thru the night. Midnight could be time for breakfast, could be lunch, could be dinner for different people.

[GizmoWhiskers]

And WHY did a lady OPEN a locked door to let a man firing a gun outside in? If I heard outside gun shots... I would be happy to be eating lemon pie with the guy with the conceal permitted gun. Doubt he was a Villager, we go to bed by 10.

[MandoMan]

According to the article, shots were fired outside so the employees locked the doors of the restaurant and called 911. The man tried to enter the restaurant through the front door but it was locked. At that point, a woman who was already inside the restaurant opened a side door and let the man inside.

Is there any reason why a woman would let a man with a gun inside the restaurant?

Perhaps he was at the door pleading for entrance because someone outside was shooting at him. Perhaps a woman felt sorry for him and let him in. Or perhaps she knew him or was his lookout or was carrying drugs for him. Mere speculation on my part.

[Normal]

Fire a few rounds outside a building, then enter with a firearm and expect to live?

Not in my world.

Witness, a foreigner visiting during the unfortunate lockdown:

Me hear noises like gun or firework
Me see man with gun
We lock door
Next we see man with gun get in
Me see many red dots like stars on man
Loud noises
Me see pink mist
Man fall down, not move

[Hiltongrizz11]

The lack of facts 30 hours later is interesting.

Participants of the outdoor shooting is still walking around free.

Check your chamber.

There is probably very little lack of facts; they just aren't distributed to you or me.

That's part of police work.

[Djean1981]

Is Applebees competing with Margarita Republic for the most dangerous place in The Villages?
It has a bar..

[Heytubes]

I think there is a name for this type of poster.

So, what are you trying to say wise one?

[JMintzer]

It has a bar..

Don't they both have a bar?

[RedChariot]

Where will you go to feel safer?

I think the fact that this is not a gated community is a major factor. Relative lived in Lakewood Ranch in 2 different areas. One entrance I could not enter at all. Not manned at the time so no card no entrance. The main entrance we had to stop. Our name and license plate written down. They documented who we were visiting. Only after that were we able to pass through the gate. Prior to living here, I did not realize how important a gated community can be. And wasn't Morse smart when he decided to have the roads fall under the local jurisdictions so that anyone can enter here and ride around. Not!

[Gulfcoast]

Sounds as though a man involved in a shooting outside in the parking lot managed to gain entry into the restaurant via a side door after the restaurant had closed. And a patron still inside the restaurant, who had a concealed carry permit, wound up fatally shooting the individual.

[ThirdOfFive]

Is the food any better for someone if they go earlier in the evening to Applebee’s? Granted, eating that late at night isn’t good for you. But we don’t need the chain restaurant “police” telling us what’s good or bad for us. Let people eat what they want, it’s up to them!
!!!

[Taltarzac725]

He might have been whom they were shooting at and came into the bar to get away from the shooters.

We do not know what he had in his pocket and whether the person who shot him was drunk or not. Maybe he was reaching for his cell phone to call 911.

Sounds as though a man involved in a shooting outside in the parking lot managed to gain entry into the restaurant via a side door after the restaurant had closed. And a patron still inside the restaurant, who had a concealed carry permit, wound up fatally shooting the individual.

[RiderOnTheStorm]

Don't know how you came up with that conclusion from what I posted, but like I said... They -could- have been arrested AFTER those crimes were committed...

Now, unless you propose police stop every single person they see, how exactly do you expect them to arrest everyone with an outstanding warrant, or someone possessing illegal drugs or carrying an illegal firearm?

Facial recognition cameras and SW are capable of quickly identifying specific individuals, even out of large groups or against diverse backgrounds (e.g. outdoors). Many stores, including Apple centers, already do this as you walk in their doors in order to identify and then monitor habitual shoplifters. Likewise, some states, including NY, equip their state troopers cars with license plate recognition/identification cameras to immediately check passing cars for violations (e.g. expired registrations). It takes just a few seconds. Florida police could do the same in order to identify sought-after criminals.

[RiderOnTheStorm]

The police are only here to take a report after the fact. Your personal safety is up to you.

Truer words were never spoken. Police simply cannot respond quickly enough.

[NoMoSno]

Facial recognition cameras and SW are capable of quickly identifying specific individuals, even out of large groups or against diverse backgrounds (e.g. outdoors). Many stores, including Apple centers, already do this as you walk in their doors in order to identify and then monitor habitual shoplifters. Likewise, some states, including NY, equip their state troopers cars with license plate recognition/identification cameras to immediately check passing cars for violations (e.g. expired registrations). It takes just a few seconds. Florida police could do the same in order to identify sought-after criminals.
Florida police do use license plate recognition.
Every cruiser is equipped with the technology.

[SeaCros]

Black victim. Drugs involved. Watch and learn.
WOW. I didnt see that in the news or anything like that in the story. So nice of you to make that ASSumption

[Bellavita]

Very interesting guy gets shot after he goes inside for help?


The lack of facts 30 hours later is interesting.

Participants of the outdoor shooting is still walking around free.

Check your chamber.

[ThirdOfFive]

I see the Court of Public Opinion is in full deliberative mode…

[coffeebean]

WOW. I didnt see that in the news or anything like that in the story. So nice of you to make that ASSumption

The victim is black.........

Florida Applebee's shooting leaves man dead (https://www.wesh.com/article/man-shot-killed-applebees-florida/43233991)

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Concealed carry... And? No information saying the man shot was armed. Since when do you kill a man for putting his hand in his pocket? There may be much more to this story. A Concealed Carry is not a license to shoot at will.

No but a state Stand your Ground law is. Someone has their hand in their pocket? You can shoot them. Justification: "I thought he was reaching for his weapon, I considered it a threat to my personal safety and defended myself."

[asianthree]

I think the fact that this is not a gated community is a major factor. Relative lived in Lakewood Ranch in 2 different areas. One entrance I could not enter at all. Not manned at the time so no card no entrance. The main entrance we had to stop. Our name and license plate written down. They documented who we were visiting. Only after that were we able to pass through the gate. Prior to living here, I did not realize how important a gated community can be. And wasn't Morse smart when he decided to have the roads fall under the local jurisdictions so that anyone can enter here and ride around. Not!

Applebees isn’t inside TV proper, so gate not appropriate.

[Pairadocs]

I think the fact that this is not a gated community is a major factor. Relative lived in Lakewood Ranch in 2 different areas. One entrance I could not enter at all. Not manned at the time so no card no entrance. The main entrance we had to stop. Our name and license plate written down. They documented who we were visiting. Only after that were we able to pass through the gate. Prior to living here, I did not realize how important a gated community can be. And wasn't Morse smart when he decided to have the roads fall under the local jurisdictions so that anyone can enter here and ride around. Not!

We also have family in Lakewood Ranch. It is more secure in many ways, but, also if you noticed, many many ways to enter without a vehicle, and a few even with a vehicle if you looked closely...it's a HUGE area there !. You might look into Del Web community, just north of the Villages. When we have visited and played golf there, there was much more security (been nearly two years so may have changed), they always stopped us, took information, etc. Villages, even "way back" never attempted to be secure, even the service people could be truck loads of anyone...not necessarily actual service or repair people. As it's grown here, of course the changes are much much greater of things happening, it's all public roads and streets but most people just visiting get the idea that it is a secured gated community...it does have gates ... after all. If you have the $$$$, there are some really secure communities in the Orlando area. Have friends whose son is a well known sports professional, it's really secure. Went to his home with his parents, you would (I think ?) feel much more secure there, but, it comes at a high cost and still is not a guarantee !

[Pairadocs]

WOW. I didnt see that in the news or anything like that in the story. So nice of you to make that ASSumption


Same here, I missed the paper that printed photos that revealed the race of those involved... WOW is right ! Of course also missed the drug deal part, wish the poster had said what paper had all that... sure was not the Daily Sun...LOL !

[Bogie Shooter]

Same here, I missed the paper that printed photos that revealed the race of those involved... WOW is right ! Of course also missed the drug deal part, wish the poster had said what paper had all that... sure was not the Daily Sun...LOL !

You missed post #118...........................

[JMintzer]

Facial recognition cameras and SW are capable of quickly identifying specific individuals, even out of large groups or against diverse backgrounds (e.g. outdoors). Many stores, including Apple centers, already do this as you walk in their doors in order to identify and then monitor habitual shoplifters. Likewise, some states, including NY, equip their state troopers cars with license plate recognition/identification cameras to immediately check passing cars for violations (e.g. expired registrations). It takes just a few seconds. Florida police could do the same in order to identify sought-after criminals.

You've been watching too many movies...

[JMintzer]

Facial recognition cameras and SW are capable of quickly identifying specific individuals, even out of large groups or against diverse backgrounds (e.g. outdoors). Many stores, including Apple centers, already do this as you walk in their doors in order to identify and then monitor habitual shoplifters. Likewise, some states, including NY, equip their state troopers cars with license plate recognition/identification cameras to immediately check passing cars for violations (e.g. expired registrations). It takes just a few seconds. Florida police could do the same in order to identify sought-after criminals.

Truer words were never spoken. Police simply cannot respond quickly enough.

So which is it?

[JMintzer]

Very interesting guy gets shot after he goes inside for help?

That's certainly an assumption... Is it true? Who knows?

[JMintzer]

No but a state Stand your Ground law is. Someone has their hand in their pocket? You can shoot them. Justification: "I thought he was reaching for his weapon, I considered it a threat to my personal safety and defended myself."

Dis you read the article?

"Police allege Hudson got inside the restaurant through a side door despite attempts to keep him out. After starting a fight in the Applebee's, police say a customer who was armed shot and killed the man because Hudson allegedly reached into his pocket...."

Specifically, the "despite attempts to keep him out", and "After starting a fight"?

It wasn't just because "someone put their hand in their pocket"...

[JMintzer]

Applebees isn’t inside TV proper, so gate not appropriate.

Correct. Just as I'm sure some crime exists outside the "ultra safe" gated community of Lakewood Ranch...

[Two Bills]

You've been watching too many movies...

Regarding Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR)
In UK most police cars are equipped with the above.
It alerts cops when a car that is not taxed, insured, stolen or is of interest too them passes by.
CCTV can also register same, and track cars and people and many can use facial recognition.
The movies are already here!

[JMintzer]

Regarding Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR)
In UK most police cars are equipped with the above.
It alerts cops when a car that is not taxed, insured, stolen or is of interest too them passes by.
CCTV can also register same, and track cars and people and many can use facial recognition.
The movies are already here!

I'm fully aware of how license plate readers operate.

I'm referring to the facial recognition. While it does exist, it does not exist to the extent that it will stop crime before it happens...

[Taltarzac725]

There was a short story on tonight's ABC Orlando station a few minutes ago. No new facts though.

[dewilson58]

There was a short story on tonight's ABC Orlando station a few minutes ago. No new facts though.

It's going to get to the point where this is an "old story" and news outlets are not going to post updates once released. :cus:

[JGibson]

Probably true, if we really want to compare though, wouldn't we have to compare the number of incidents in the V's compared to the total number of residents and same with NYC to get an accurate pictures. Would seem to be the way to get a more accurate picture, meaning any town with 10K people, that has 100 armed robberies annually, or a town/city with 2.7 million and has 10K armed robberies annually..... would be interesting if our daily paper would publish the actual police blotter like you see in most newspapers. Always difficult to determine actual crime stats, as there are just so many ways to set up the equation used to figure them !

Per capita The Villages was rated the third safest place to live in America.

When was the last time there was a shooting of this magnitude in TV?

[Normal]

It was fortunate that someone had a gun to stop this crazy man.

[Taltarzac725]

It was fortunate that someone had a gun to stop this crazy man.

There are no facts showing that. He did not leave with the people shooting in the car or cars. Probably because they were targeting him. He came into the bar for safety i.e. to get out of the shooters' field of fire.

[manaboutown]

[QUOTE=Taltarzac725;2196660 He came into the bar for safety i.e. to get out of the shooters' field of fire.[/QUOTE]

Are the facts out yet? Do the facts show that?

[Normal]

Are the facts out yet? Do the facts show that?

“ Inside the restaurant, authorities said an argument occurred and the victim reached into his pants. At that point, a customer with a concealed weapon permit shot Hudson, killing him, police said.

Police said the customer, who has not been publicly identified, is cooperating with their investigators. At this time, no charges have been filed. Officials said any charges will depend on the outcome of their investigation.”

He could have harmed the people inside. I’m sure the workers/patrons are grateful to the man carrying the concealed and permitted gun. It’s good all ended well.

[Taltarzac725]

We will see. There are not enough facts shown to really tell what happened.

Was he armed? Was he arguing with the shooters outside? Was the killer drunk?

The most logical explanation is that he was arguing with the people in the car or cars and came in the bar to be safe. And was reaching for a cell phone in his pocket.

Wrongful death case probably if those are the facts. If he came in to shoot the people at Applebee's then that is another matter.

“ Inside the restaurant, authorities said an argument occurred and the victim reached into his pants. At that point, a customer with a concealed weapon permit shot Hudson, killing him, police said.

Police said the customer, who has not been publicly identified, is cooperating with their investigators. At this time, no charges have been filed. Officials said any charges will depend on the outcome of their investigation.”

He could have harmed the people inside. I’m sure the workers/patrons are grateful to the man carrying the concealed and permitted gun. It’s good all ended well.

[manaboutown]

The dead man does have a criminal record.

"All I could find on him was an arrest last year for domestic battery by strangulation and a request from Missouri for extradition from last January, and an arrest in Scott County Iowa. All records were sealed, but he does have a criminal record. That’s all I know of his history.

Hudson was seated at an outside patio table at the Applebee’s with a group of other people before walking out into the parking lot, where there was some sort of an altercation that involved at least three gunshots being fired before a vehicle left the scene.

After hearing the gunshots, customers still inside the restaurant fled out the back door. Hudson then walked around the building to the side door that employees use and entered the restaurant. Once inside, there was another altercation inside, during which Hudson reached into his pants. A man with a concealed weapons permit who was inside the restaurant shot Hudson, killing him."

From: More on Defensive Shooting – Area Ocho (https://areaocho.com/more-on-defensive-shooting/)

[Taltarzac725]

The dead man does have a criminal record.

"All I could find on him was an arrest last year for domestic battery by strangulation and a request from Missouri for extradition from last January, and an arrest in Scott County Iowa. All records were sealed, but he does have a criminal record. That’s all I know of his history.

Hudson was seated at an outside patio table at the Applebee’s with a group of other people before walking out into the parking lot, where there was some sort of an altercation that involved at least three gunshots being fired before a vehicle left the scene.

After hearing the gunshots, customers still inside the restaurant fled out the back door. Hudson then walked around the building to the side door that employees use and entered the restaurant. Once inside, there was another altercation inside, during which Hudson reached into his pants. A man with a concealed weapons permit who was inside the restaurant shot Hudson, killing him.

The fact that police have released the name of the man who was shot and not the man who did the shooting probably means that the shooter is not a suspect."

From: More on Defensive Shooting – Area Ocho (https://areaocho.com/more-on-defensive-shooting/)

Whether or not this was a defensive shooting remains to be seen. What did the person killed have in his pocket? Why did he not leave with the people in the car? Probably because he was looking for somewhere he would NOT be shot.

What I see in the facts so far is criminal negligence. There is no indication that the murdered man was armed. He would have left with the people in the cars or car. They did the shooting. Or, maybe the victim had gun residue on his hands? We do not know that.

[manaboutown]

Whether or not this was a defensive shooting remains to be seen. What did the person killed have in his pocket? Why did he not leave with the people in the car? Probably because he was looking for somewhere he would NOT be shot.

There is no point in jumping to conclusions based on speculation and hypotheticals. We do not yet know what happened. All we know about Hudson at this time is that he did have a record of violent behavior including strangulation. He has sealed criminal records in both Iowa and Missouri.

[Taltarzac725]

Irrelevant.

The killed man's record has no bearing on what the man who killed him was thinking when he shot him.

There is no point in jumping to conclusions based on hypotheticals. All we know about Hudson at this time is that he did have a record of violent behavior including strangulation. He has sealed criminal records in both Iowa and Missouri.

[manaboutown]

Irrelevant.

The killed man's record has no bearing on what the man who killed him was thinking when he shot him.

Of course it is irrelevant in a criminal trial, but past violent criminal behavior is indicative of Hudson's character.

[Normal]

Good guy with a gun, kills bad guy with a gun. Case closed!

Is there any way he can get a medal for his bravery?

At either rate, I hope we can all get a chance to say thank you to this brave citizen

[B-flat]

Good guy with a gun, kills bad guy with a gun. Case closed!

Is there any way he can get a medal for his bravery?

At either rate, I hope we can all get a chance to say thank you to this brave citizen


I hope the shooter was a member of the USCCA. He may need a strong defense and will get it from USCCA ( United States Concealed Carry Association).

Just a moment... (https://www.usconcealedcarry.com)

[Taltarzac725]

I hope the shooter was a member of the USCCA. He may need a strong defense and will get it from USCCA ( United States Concealed Carry Association).

Just a moment... (https://www.usconcealedcarry.com)

It will probably come down to a civil case of wrongful death. The facts will matter and we still do not know what those even are.

[B-flat]

It will probably come down to a civil case of wrongful death. The facts will matter and we still do not know what those even are.

Yes, I tend to agree with you on your point. USCCA may save him some serious $$$ in the long run.

[JMintzer]

There are no facts showing that. He did not leave with the people shooting in the car or cars. Probably because they were targeting him. He came into the bar for safety i.e. to get out of the shooters' field of fire.

Or... He was the shooter and the people he was shooting at fled the scene in their car/s...

Of course, some will say there are no facts to back up my theory...

Just like there are no facts to back up your theory...

But... He did get into a fight with someone once inside the restaurant...

And THAT is when he got shot...

[dewilson58]

But... He did get into a fight with someone once inside the restaurant...

.

I've only heard "verbal" inside Applebees, not physical fight.

Are there facts out there stating physical fight???

[JMintzer]

I've only heard "verbal" inside Applebees, not physical fight.

Are there facts out there stating physical fight???

A "fight" can be physical or verbal...

The first article called it an "altercation"...

The 2nd one posted said he "started a fight" after he entered the restaurant "despite attempts to keep him out"

To me, that sounds "physical"...

"After the incident, several patrons escaped, employees locked the doors to the restaurant and called 911. Police allege Hudson got inside the restaurant through a side door despite attempts to keep him out. After starting a fight in the Applebee's, police say a customer who was armed shot and killed the man because Hudson allegedly reached into his pocket."

And thats the problem. So many people here are basing their "conclusions" on minimal, somewhat conflicting, information...

[jimjamuser]

Hate to add facts, but given the low crime in TV, given the officers per 10,000 population..............I wonder what the is the basis for needing more officers (of other posters).

:shrug:


((maybe to track down all the gate breakers))
To show a fairly large presence that will deter crimes BEFORE they happen.

[jimjamuser]

I think the fact that this is not a gated community is a major factor. Relative lived in Lakewood Ranch in 2 different areas. One entrance I could not enter at all. Not manned at the time so no card no entrance. The main entrance we had to stop. Our name and license plate written down. They documented who we were visiting. Only after that were we able to pass through the gate. Prior to living here, I did not realize how important a gated community can be. And wasn't Morse smart when he decided to have the roads fall under the local jurisdictions so that anyone can enter here and ride around. Not!
Good post. Our gates ONLY give us an unwarranted feeling of safety. It is like a mirage.

[Taltarzac725]

///?

[jimjamuser]

No but a state Stand your Ground law is. Someone has their hand in their pocket? You can shoot them. Justification: "I thought he was reaching for his weapon, I considered it a threat to my personal safety and defended myself."
That does tend to promote a "quick-draw" mentality.

[JMintzer]

To show a fairly large presence that will deter crimes BEFORE they happen.

You mean all of that crime that already doesn't happen?

Crime Rate in The Villages

According to the most recent FBI reports, The Villages are among the safest places to live in Florida. With about 2,116 crimes per 100,000 people, the crime rate in The Villages is about 40% lower than the national average. The violent crime rate is about 41% lower than average as well.

[dewilson58]

To show a fairly large presence that will deter crimes BEFORE they happen.

But The Villages is pretty much crime-less now.

What crimes are you wanted a presence for in order to deter??
and
How many coppers are needed???

Provide facts, don't need unsupported opinions.

[dewilson58]

A "fight" can be physical or verbal...
..

I know.

The most current update I've seen is News 6, two days ago and they are reporting verbal.

[JMintzer]

That is also not true. He was arguing with someone to open the door for him and that person did just that. Arguing not fighting.

Didi you miss this part?

"After the incident, several patrons escaped, employees locked the doors to the restaurant and called 911. Police allege Hudson got inside the restaurant through a side door despite attempts to keep him out. After starting a fight in the Applebee's, police say a customer who was armed shot and killed the man because Hudson allegedly reached into his pocket."

"Hudson got inside the restaurant through a side door despite attempts to keep him out"

It says nothing about someone "opening the door to let him in"...

And it specifically says "after starting a fight"...

[JMintzer]

That does tend to promote a "quick-draw" mentality.

He who hesitates get's shot...

[PugMom]

Stuff does seem to happen in the Lady Lake area of the Villages more often. The Melinda Duckett suicide was somewhere up there. That case was national news so there was a lot of material in The Villages Daily Sun about it.

Probably there is more news of the bad kind happening because of 441/27 and the people coming in from there.

We never did learn what happened to Trenton Duckett.

i remember that story. i always thought the mother passed him off to some relatives or friend, but we won't really know. no remains showed up after all these years, which leads me to think he was 'adopted' out

[jimjamuser]

But The Villages is pretty much crime-less now.

What crimes are you wanted a presence for in order to deter??
and
How many coppers are needed???

Provide facts, don't need unsupported opinions.
I had tools worth $5,000 dollars stolen 5 years ago. That IS hard to put into the rearview mirror. And it is a KNOWN FACT that murders nationwide have increased in the last 3 years after the Pandemic. The US is NOT protecting its borders (both South and North ) from both criminal and perhaps non-criminal, BUT still illegal immigrants that I and no US citizen have ever gotten to vote about whether it should happen. It is also VERY OBSERVABLE that nationwide there is a vanishing middle-class, which is universally known to INCREASE potential crime. It is true that The Villages IS a UNIQUE wealthy bubble surrounded by have-nots. I am just trying to warn senior residents that future conditions seem poised to tend toward VIOLENCE.
.......Better to be WARNED and something NOT HAPPEN than something HAPPEN that a person is NOT prepared for.
.......As practical proof about the danger from increasing crime that real people here locally feel. I was just down to Rural King and the table of cartridges and shotgun shells was just about empty. 10 years ago it would have been filled. People realize that CRIME locally IS a BIG problem.

[jimjamuser]

A few years ago my home was robbed of $5K worth of tools. That IS hard to forget.

[dewilson58]

I had tools worth $5,000 dollars stolen 5 years ago.

If in TV and true, this is your only fact about crime in TV and needing more police.

:ho:

[jimjamuser]

A few years ago my home was robbed of $5K worth of tools. That IS hard to forget.
Murders are up nationwide for the last 3 years. The Villages is a bunch of rich older people SURROUNDED by neighborhoods of angry, JEALOUS have-NOTS. It IS INEVITABLE that there will be increasing crimes and clashes between these 2 groups. I am simply trying to warn older citizens that it is LIKELY that crime increases in the next several years here in OUR Bubble.
........Nationwide, murders are up in the last 3 years. Another problem is that the US has LOST its middle-class which can act as a socially stabilizing force to LOWER violence. Also, nationwide and in Florida Public schools have teachers quitting in DROVES - FORETELLING another removal of a stabilizing social FORCE.
.........I was just down to Rural King and the table where ammo is kept was almost empty. 10 years ago that same table would have been full. There are signs of social instability and potential crime ALL around.
......The Villages is VERY POTENTIALLY vulnerable to violence. It is just a matter of time. I say, better to have a fairly large Police presence and NEVER need them than have a small Police presence that does NOT deter crime in the 1st place.

[Taltarzac725]

Didi you miss this part?

"After the incident, several patrons escaped, employees locked the doors to the restaurant and called 911. Police allege Hudson got inside the restaurant through a side door despite attempts to keep him out. After starting a fight in the Applebee's, police say a customer who was armed shot and killed the man because Hudson allegedly reached into his pocket."

"Hudson got inside the restaurant through a side door despite attempts to keep him out"

It says nothing about someone "opening the door to let him in"...

And it specifically says "after starting a fight"...

How do you fight with someone when the door is locked and you are on the other side? This was people talking at one another.

[JMintzer]

Murders at up nationwide for the last 3 years. The Villages is a bunch of rich older people SURROUNDED by neighborhoods of angry, JEALOUS have-NOTS. It IS INEVITABLE that there will be increasing crimes and clashes better these 2 groups. I am simply trying to warn older citizens that it is LIKELY that crime increases in the next several years here in OUR Bubble.
........Nationwide, murders are up in the last 3 years. Another problem is that the US has LOST its middle-class which can act as a socially stabilizing force to LOWER violence. Also, nationwide and in Florida Public schools have teachers quitting in DROVES - FORETELLING another removal of a stabilizing social FORCE.
.........I was just down to Rural King and the table where ammo is kept was almost empty. 10 years ago that same table would have been full. There are signs of social instability and potential crime ALL around.
......The Villages is VERY POTENTIALLY vulnerable to violence. It is just a matter of time. I say, better to have a fairly large Police presence and NEVER need them than have a small Police presence that does NOT deter crime in the 1st place.

Wow! It's sad that you have such a poor and disparaging view of our neighbors outside TV...

And if you think that TV is nothing but a "bunch of rich people", I suggest that you visit Naples, or Palm Beach, or Boca Raton...

I've found TV to be a mix of everything form retired Blue Collar workers, Teachers, Nurses, Firefighters, Cops, Nurses, Doctors, Lawyers and Indian Chiefs. With housing prices from the mid/low $200s to well over a $Million...

[JMintzer]

How do you fight with someone when the door is locked and you are on the other side? This was people talking at one another.

Now you're just making things up...

I'm sure they simply locked the front door. You know, where the shots were fired?

Did you also miss the part where several patrons "escaped"? Apparently that door was at least partly accessible... Maybe it was the "side door", as I doubt they'd run towards the gunshots...

[JMintzer]

Murders at up nationwide for the last 3 years. The Villages is a bunch of rich older people SURROUNDED by neighborhoods of angry, JEALOUS have-NOTS. It IS INEVITABLE that there will be increasing crimes and clashes better these 2 groups. I am simply trying to warn older citizens that it is LIKELY that crime increases in the next several years here in OUR Bubble.
........Nationwide, murders are up in the last 3 years. Another problem is that the US has LOST its middle-class which can act as a socially stabilizing force to LOWER violence. Also, nationwide and in Florida Public schools have teachers quitting in DROVES - FORETELLING another removal of a stabilizing social FORCE.
.........I was just down to Rural King and the table where ammo is kept was almost empty. 10 years ago that same table would have been full. There are signs of social instability and potential crime ALL around.
......The Villages is VERY POTENTIALLY vulnerable to violence. It is just a matter of time. I say, better to have a fairly large Police presence and NEVER need them than have a small Police presence that does NOT deter crime in the 1st place.

Lest I repeat myself (I'll leave that for others to do...)

"Crime Rate in The Villages

According to the most recent FBI reports, The Villages are among the safest places to live in Florida. With about 2,116 crimes per 100,000 people, the crime rate in The Villages is about 40% lower than the national average. The violent crime rate is about 41% lower than average as well."

[dewilson58]

Lest I repeat myself (I'll leave that for others to do...)

"Crime Rate in The Villages

According to the most recent FBI reports, The Villages are among the safest places to live in Florida. With about 2,116 crimes per 100,000 people, the crime rate in The Villages is about 40% lower than the national average. The violent crime rate is about 41% lower than average as well."

Now you stop that...........................posters don't want facts.

:crap2:

[ThirdOfFive]

Murders at up nationwide for the last 3 years. The Villages is a bunch of rich older people SURROUNDED by neighborhoods of angry, JEALOUS have-NOTS. It IS INEVITABLE that there will be increasing crimes and clashes better these 2 groups. I am simply trying to warn older citizens that it is LIKELY that crime increases in the next several years here in OUR Bubble.
........Nationwide, murders are up in the last 3 years. Another problem is that the US has LOST its middle-class which can act as a socially stabilizing force to LOWER violence. Also, nationwide and in Florida Public schools have teachers quitting in DROVES - FORETELLING another removal of a stabilizing social FORCE.
.........I was just down to Rural King and the table where ammo is kept was almost empty. 10 years ago that same table would have been full. There are signs of social instability and potential crime ALL around.
......The Villages is VERY POTENTIALLY vulnerable to violence. It is just a matter of time. I say, better to have a fairly large Police presence and NEVER need them than have a small Police presence that does NOT deter crime in the 1st place.
I've heard this from some other people. Odd thing is, I haven't experienced it. Not even once. It is pretty safe to say that my wife and I probably have more non-Villager friends, than we do IN The Villages. In fact we're taking care of a farm for the next two weeks for a couple who we are friends with, while they are gone. It is a relaxing, refreshing change from Villages life (though in honesty anything more than two weeks would be more suited to a much younger man).

People tend to see what they are conditioned to see. If someone expects to see non-Villagers as "angry, jealous have-nots", then it is pretty sure that that is what they WILL see. For myself, I try to see people for what they are, and not according to some stereotype or other. The locals I've met have been warm, sincere, down-to-earth folks who have a refreshing honesty. Some of them were a bit circumspect upon first meeting (I suppose stereotypes work both ways, and my Minnesota accent is as good as wearing a sign), but it didn't take long at all for that to disappear.

People are people. Ignoring the stereotypes while giving each other the benefit of the doubt is by far the more rewarding way to go.

[Taltarzac725]

I've heard this from some other people. Odd thing is, I haven't experienced it. Not even once. It is pretty safe to say that my wife and I probably have more non-Villager friends, than we do IN The Villages. In fact we're taking care of a farm for the next two weeks for a couple who we are friends with, while they are gone. It is a relaxing, refreshing change from Villages life (though in honesty anything more than two weeks would be more suited to a much younger man).

People tend to see what they are conditioned to see. If someone expects to see non-Villagers as "angry, jealous have-nots", then it is pretty sure that that is what they WILL see. For myself, I try to see people for what they are, and not according to some stereotype or other. The locals I've met have been warm, sincere, down-to-earth folks who have a refreshing honesty. Some of them were a bit circumspect upon first meeting (I suppose stereotypes work both ways, and my Minnesota accent is as good as wearing a sign), but it didn't take long at all for that to disappear.

People are people. Ignoring the stereotypes while giving each other the benefit of the doubt is by far the more rewarding way to go.

Nicely put. I have found Minnesotans to usually be friendly. But I have not been there since the blizzard of late 1991.

[Taltarzac725]

This involved a fatality and an argument but the facts are under investigation. One of those involved had a concealed gun carry permit.

Applebee’s patron shoots, kills man inside The Villages restaurant, police say (https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2023/03/07/applebees-patron-shoots-kills-man-inside-the-villages-restaurant-police-say/)

There are the facts I am working with now. They could change.

[jimjamuser]

I've heard this from some other people. Odd thing is, I haven't experienced it. Not even once. It is pretty safe to say that my wife and I probably have more non-Villager friends, than we do IN The Villages. In fact we're taking care of a farm for the next two weeks for a couple who we are friends with, while they are gone. It is a relaxing, refreshing change from Villages life (though in honesty anything more than two weeks would be more suited to a much younger man).

People tend to see what they are conditioned to see. If someone expects to see non-Villagers as "angry, jealous have-nots", then it is pretty sure that that is what they WILL see. For myself, I try to see people for what they are, and not according to some stereotype or other. The locals I've met have been warm, sincere, down-to-earth folks who have a refreshing honesty. Some of them were a bit circumspect upon first meeting (I suppose stereotypes work both ways, and my Minnesota accent is as good as wearing a sign), but it didn't take long at all for that to disappear.

People are people. Ignoring the stereotypes while giving each other the benefit of the doubt is by far the more rewarding way to go.
So, I am assuming that you have never met the criminals that stole my $5 K worth of tools. WHEN that happens to someone.......it tends to change their attitude toward criminals. When you yourself are a VICTIM of CRIME, it is MORE DIFFICULT to "turn the other cheek".
.....I am just putting out a message of warning about potential future crime - I can see it in the cards. I don't care who agrees with me or disagrees. I did my PART with the warning!

[ThirdOfFive]

Nicely put. I have found Minnesotans to usually be friendly. But I have not been there since the blizzard of late 1991.
Oh yeah. The Halloween Blizzard! I lived in Duluth at the time; we had near 40 inches of snow over three days and then the temperature dropped like a rock. For the next four days Sixth Avenue East was the best ski run in the state.

[Caymus]

Nicely put. I have found Minnesotans to usually be friendly. But I have not been there since the blizzard of late 1991.

Isn't that called "Minnesota nice"?

[fdpaq0580]

So, I am assuming that you have never met the criminals that stole my $5 K worth of tools. WHEN that happens to someone.......it tends to change their attitude toward criminals. When you yourself are a VICTIM of CRIME, it is MORE DIFFICULT to "turn the other cheek".
.....I am just putting out a message of warning about potential future crime - I can see it in the cards. I don't care who agrees with me or disagrees. I did my PART with the warning!

As to the concept of turning the other cheek, I prefer the old saying of "once bitten, twice shy".

[Taltarzac725]

Isn't that called "Minnesota nice"?

Yes. I handled some cases while a law student at the U of MN. These were primarily at the Minnesota Correctional Facility -- Stillwater. Some of these people had committed very nasty crimes but as a law student you need to represent them as best you can. I also supervised a small group of law students after being mentored by another law student. I have a strong interest in victims' rights but had to put that on a back burner. But in some cases it is hard to tell who the victim is. Like this one at Applebee's. Not enough facts available.

Many of the people I met in the five+ years I was in Minnesota were warm. I have met many Villagers who are from Minnesota. And some had gone to the U of MN.

[asianthree]

Correct. Just as I'm sure some crime exists outside the "ultra safe" gated community of Lakewood Ranch...

Have no idea of the Lakewood Ranch you are posting about, did you mix up posts?

[Ele201]

Good post. Our gates ONLY give us an unwarranted feeling of safety. It is like a mirage.
Yes Morse was smart. Because they did Not want the Villages to be closed off. Because through traffic means more opportunities for Sales! People see it, then want to buy (maybe). It’s not gated , it’s open. All you have to do is press the red button (like a clowns nose). Couldn’t resist that!

[Taltarzac725]

Yes Morse was smart. Because they did Not want the Villages to be closed off. Because through traffic means more opportunities for Sales! People see it, then want to buy (maybe). It’s not gated , it’s open. All you have to do is press the red button (like a clowns nose). Couldn’t resist that!

We have lived here since June of 2005 and found it quite safe relative to Wildwood, Ocala, Fruitland Park, Orlando and other surrounding areas. I does help that many Villagers are retired military and/or law enforcement and are often armed. But do seem very careful about when they pull their weapons out. The training they received helps. But the wanna-be John Wayne like approach is a bad one. Probably because it kicks the nest of tort lawyers.

[JMintzer]

So, I am assuming that you have never met the criminals that stole my $5 K worth of tools. WHEN that happens to someone.......it tends to change their attitude toward criminals. When you yourself are a VICTIM of CRIME, it is MORE DIFFICULT to "turn the other cheek".
.....I am just putting out a message of warning about potential future crime - I can see it in the cards. I don't care who agrees with me or disagrees. I did my PART with the warning!

Could have been a "Rich Villager" who stole them...

[JMintzer]

I think the fact that this is not a gated community is a major factor. Relative lived in Lakewood Ranch in 2 different areas. One entrance I could not enter at all. Not manned at the time so no card no entrance. The main entrance we had to stop. Our name and license plate written down. They documented who we were visiting. Only after that were we able to pass through the gate. Prior to living here, I did not realize how important a gated community can be. And wasn't Morse smart when he decided to have the roads fall under the local jurisdictions so that anyone can enter here and ride around. Not!

You responded:

Applebees isn’t inside TV proper, so gate not appropriate.

Then, you posted:

Have no idea of the Lakewood Ranch you are posting about, did you mix up posts?

Well, you replied to a post citing the community of "Lakewood Ranch", and I responded to your response...

So no I did not mix up posts...

Did you forget what you posted?

[JMintzer]

We have lived here since June of 2005 and found it quite safe relative to Wildwood, Ocala, Fruitland Park, Orlando and other surrounding areas. I does help that many Villagers are retired military and/or law enforcement and are often armed. But do seem very careful about when they pull their weapons out. The training they received helps. But the wanna-be John Wayne like approach is a bad one. Probably because it kicks the nest of tort lawyers.

Where does this "wanna-be John Wayne like approach" exist? Other than in your imagination?

[Taltarzac725]

Where does this "wanna-be John Wayne like approach" exist? Other than in your imagination?

Lots of places. The man who killed Trayvon Martin for instance--George Zimmerman. The police who took down George Floyd which happened in Minneapolis. Instances where a lynch mob mentality creeps in and which throws caution and compassion to the wind.

Shoot first and ask questions later.

[JMintzer]

Lots of places. The man who killed Trayvon Martin for instance--George Zimmerman. The police who took down George Floyd which happened in Minneapolis. Instances where a lynch mob mentality creeps in and which throws caution and compassion to the wind.

Shoot first and ask questions later.

:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Wait... Didn't you say that the police are trained about when to pull out their weapons? Was George Floyd shot?

As to George Zimmerman, he never used his weapon until he was having his head slammed into a concrete sidewalk... Sound's pretty restrained to me...

[Taltarzac725]

:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Wait... Didn't you say that the police are trained about when to pull out their weapons? Was George Floyd shot?

As to George Zimmerman, he never used his weapon until he was having his head slammed into a concrete sidewalk... Sound's pretty restrained to me...

You are good at taking things out-of-context. The important point is making life changing decisions on very little evidence. I never said all cops are well- trained and act thoughtfully.


And we have very different takes on Treyvon Martin and his killer George Zimmerman.

[jimjamuser]

Isn't that called "Minnesota nice"?
Sounds to me like Minnesota "ICE".

[jimjamuser]

Yes Morse was smart. Because they did Not want the Villages to be closed off. Because through traffic means more opportunities for Sales! People see it, then want to buy (maybe). It’s not gated , it’s open. All you have to do is press the red button (like a clowns nose). Couldn’t resist that!
A pessimistic person might say, "What they were REALLY SELLING was the DECEPTION of a SAFE and really GATED community". It's like the glass-half-full situation often talked about.........here is a situation of either safe and wonderful or unsafe, deceptive, and pandering to the public!

[Get real]

You are good at taking things out-of-context. The important point is making life changing decisions on very little evidence. I never said all cops are well- trained and act thoughtfully.


And we have very different takes on Treyvon Martin and his killer George Zimmerman.

This could be it's own thread. But it wouldn't last long once the truth comes out.

[JGibson]

You are good at taking things out-of-context. The important point is making life changing decisions on very little evidence. I never said all cops are well- trained and act thoughtfully.





And we have very different takes on Treyvon Martin and his killer George Zimmerman.

Let me guess, you think Kyle Rittenhouse is a killer also.

Believe me, if criminals start getting blasted by folks defending themselves who live in TV word will get out quickly, suspects prey on the weak.

Florida’s stand-your-ground law should be a model for other states.

[B-flat]

let me guess, you think kyle rittenhouse is a killer also.

Believe me, if criminals start getting blasted by folks defending themselves who live in tv word will get out quickly, suspects prey on the weak.

Florida’s stand-your-ground law should be a model for other states.

ditto!!!!

[Taltarzac725]

Let me guess, you think Kyle Rittenhouse is a killer also.

Believe me, if criminals start getting blasted by folks defending themselves who live in TV word will get out quickly, suspects prey on the weak.

Florida’s stand-your-ground law should be a model for other states.

Let us get back to this week or so. How was this shooter in Lady Lake defending himself? There are not enough facts available to say one or another. And he looks trigger happy acting very quickly without actually knowing what was going on unless there are other facts.

[ThirdOfFive]

Let me guess, you think Kyle Rittenhouse is a killer also.

Believe me, if criminals start getting blasted by folks defending themselves who live in TV word will get out quickly, suspects prey on the weak.

Florida’s stand-your-ground law should be a model for other states.
Much truth in that.

I remember when permit-to-carry became law in Minnesota about 20 or so years ago. Of course we heard all the doleful prophecies about bodies piling up in the streets. Didn’t happen, of course. But what DID happen is interesting—and instructive. A lot of businesses put up those signs (I think some organizations were even giving them away) to the effect that GUNS ARE NOT ALLOWED ON THESE PREMISES. The signs came down right quick when it became evident that those were the businesses that were getting held up!

Bad guys just don’t like their targets shooting back.

[retiredguy123]

Much truth in that.

I remember when permit-to-carry became law in Minnesota about 20 or so years ago. Of course we heard all the doleful prophecies about bodies piling up in the streets. Didn’t happen, of course. But what DID happen is interesting—and instructive. A lot of businesses put up those signs (I think some organizations were even giving them away) to the effect that GUNS ARE NOT ALLOWED ON THESE PREMISES. The signs came down right quick when it became evident that those were the businesses that were getting held up!

Bad guys just don’t like their targets shooting back.
The signs are not enforceable anyway.

[mikeycereal]

Where does this "wanna-be John Wayne like approach" exist? Other than in your imagination?

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/0wK.gif

[PugMom]

I've heard this from some other people. Odd thing is, I haven't experienced it. Not even once. It is pretty safe to say that my wife and I probably have more non-Villager friends, than we do IN The Villages. In fact we're taking care of a farm for the next two weeks for a couple who we are friends with, while they are gone. It is a relaxing, refreshing change from Villages life (though in honesty anything more than two weeks would be more suited to a much younger man).

People tend to see what they are conditioned to see. If someone expects to see non-Villagers as "angry, jealous have-nots", then it is pretty sure that that is what they WILL see. For myself, I try to see people for what they are, and not according to some stereotype or other. The locals I've met have been warm, sincere, down-to-earth folks who have a refreshing honesty. Some of them were a bit circumspect upon first meeting (I suppose stereotypes work both ways, and my Minnesota accent is as good as wearing a sign), but it didn't take long at all for that to disappear.

People are people. Ignoring the stereotypes while giving each other the benefit of the doubt is by far the more rewarding way to go.

EXCELLENT reply

[jimjamuser]

Lots of places. The man who killed Trayvon Martin for instance--George Zimmerman. The police who took down George Floyd which happened in Minneapolis. Instances where a lynch mob mentality creeps in and which throws caution and compassion to the wind.

Shoot first and ask questions later.
Good post, good answer!

[jimjamuser]

You are good at taking things out-of-context. The important point is making life changing decisions on very little evidence. I never said all cops are well- trained and act thoughtfully.


And we have very different takes on Treyvon Martin and his killer George Zimmerman.
Good post, good answer!

[jimjamuser]

Let me guess, you think Kyle Rittenhouse is a killer also.

Believe me, if criminals start getting blasted by folks defending themselves who live in TV word will get out quickly, suspects prey on the weak.

Florida’s stand-your-ground law should be a model for other states.
Sounds like a lot of posters like the idea of the "wild west" coming to Florida and Bubble-Head-Land. And they SON'T seem to like the idea of having a GREATER Police presence. Sound like they are in favor of "do-it-yourself" Policing. I see this as a STRANGE dichotomy where factors are going in opposite directions.
........What I DO know is that just this morning I was talking with several people that were thinking about relocating here from up North. But, SADLY, this very incident about the Applebee's shooting has convinced them to NOT move to Florida. Between the lack of facts released ( they suspect a COVER-UP) about the Applebee's incident and the recent (almost daily) stories of shootings in Orlando, they intend to PASS on Florida. I suggested the Research Triangle in North Carolina or one of the Carolinas near a University.
........I could NOT in good conscience recommend The Villages or ANYWHERE in Florida. And besides Crime, there is another factor that they were NOT aware of (until I told them) - the summers are BRUTAL hot and outside activities are nearly impossible. Also, the predictions are for MORE heat for the whole earth for, at least, the next 8 years. I was a Boy Scout so I could never lie to them - maybe the Chamber of Commerce and Real Estate Agents can and will.
........They mentioned that the Applebees shooting could attract a nationwide audience because of the Racist possible component and the Police possible cover-up. It is possible that Al Sharpton has been made aware of this situation. And as of now, the DEAD black man's family can NOT afford a lawyer.

[Taltarzac725]

Sounds like a lot of posters like the idea of the "wild west" coming to Florida and Bubble-Head-Land. And they SON'T seem to like the idea of having a GREATER Police presence. Sound like they are in favor of "do-it-yourself" Policing. I see this as a STRANGE dichotomy where factors are going in opposite directions.
........What I DO know is that just this morning I was talking with several people that were thinking about relocating here from up North. But, SADLY, this very incident about the Applebee's shooting has convinced them to NOT move to Florida. Between the lack of facts released ( they suspect a COVER-UP) about the Applebee's incident and the recent (almost daily) stories of shootings in Orlando, they intend to PASS on Florida. I suggested the Research Triangle in North Carolina or one of the Carolinas near a University.
........I could NOT in good conscience recommend The Villages or ANYWHERE in Florida. And besides Crime, there is another factor that they were NOT aware of (until I told them) - the summers are BRUTAL hot and outside activities are nearly impossible. Also, the predictions are for MORE heat for the whole earth for, at least, the next 8 years. I was a Boy Scout so I could never lie to them - maybe the Chamber of Commerce and Real Estate Agents can and will.
........They mentioned that the Applebees shooting could attract a nationwide audience because of the Raciest possible component and the Police possible cover-up. It is possible that Al Sharpton has been made aware of this situation. And as of now, the DEAD black man's family can NOT afford a lawyer.

As far as I know wrongful death cases are often taken on a pay it if you win basis.

And the Lady Lake PD seem to be doing things right and not letting the media control the investigation. They should do it by-the-book to counter rabble rousers like Al Sharpton and Tucker Carlson.

[Taltarzac725]

And the Wild West towns often required you to give up your guns while in town. Probably because a lot of boozing and whoring were involved.

[Caymus]

And the Wild West towns often required you to give up your guns while in town. Probably because a lot of boozing and whoring were involved.

Are you implying that those are bad things?:jester:

[Taltarzac725]

Are you implying that those are bad things?:jester:

They are when men fight over women while all are drunk.

[Pairadocs]

Good post, good answer!

Ditto ! A NICE change of pace from some posts one sees on here !

[Pairadocs]

Where does this "wanna-be John Wayne like approach" exist? Other than in your imagination?

I was really interested in that also; "the J. W. wanna-be" thing, but the examples seem to all be far from the villages, and actually, are still open to interpretation. Remember the young man in the midwest, can't remember all details, but took a (lawfully owned) rifle to a gathering protest, ended up as THE #1 example of a terrorist, on every network day and night (Kyle Rittenhouse I believe was the name), a "horrible" example of our youth, and then, drip, drip, drip... the rest of the story turns out completely opposite of the nightly "news". Hopefully, a thoughtful and knowledgeable person, will (UN-emotionally) post the examples of the J.W. wanna-be actual incidents IN the Villages, and how they turned out ?

[JMintzer]

Let us get back to this week or so. How was this shooter in Lady Lake defending himself? There are not enough facts available to say one or another. And he looks trigger happy acting very quickly without actually knowing what was going on unless there are other facts.

You start by saying "there are not enough facts to say one way or another"...

Agreed!

Then... You have to go and ruin it by saying "And he looks trigger happy acting very quickly without actually knowing what was going on unless there are other facts."

So which is it?

I understand that you desperately want the latter to be so, but you can't have it both ways...

[JMintzer]

The signs are not enforceable anyway.

Worse that can happen is you being charged with "trespassing"...

[JMintzer]

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/0wK.gif

He didn't know how to swim...

I'll bet he learned right quick! :1rotfl:

[Taltarzac725]

I was really interested in that also; "the J. W. wanna-be" thing, but the examples seem to all be far from the villages, and actually, are still open to interpretation. Remember the young man in the midwest, can't remember all details, but took a (lawfully owned) rifle to a gathering protest, ended up as THE #1 example of a terrorist, on every network day and night (Kyle Rittenhouse I believe was the name), a "horrible" example of our youth, and then, drip, drip, drip... the rest of the story turns out completely opposite of the nightly "news". Hopefully, a thoughtful and knowledgeable person, will (UN-emotionally) post the examples of the J.W. wanna-be actual incidents IN the Villages, and how they turned out ?

The criminal trial went the right way in the Rittenhouse case. He was acting in self-defense.


What happens with the Applebee's shooting will probably be of interest to the same groups who got involved with the Rittenhouse shootings. Still not enough information to make a wise judgement on anyone's part in the Lady Lake death.

[JMintzer]

Sounds like a lot of posters like the idea of the "wild west" coming to Florida and Bubble-Head-Land. And they SON'T seem to like the idea of having a GREATER Police presence. Sound like they are in favor of "do-it-yourself" Policing. I see this as a STRANGE dichotomy where factors are going in opposite directions.
........What I DO know is that just this morning I was talking with several people that were thinking about relocating here from up North. But, SADLY, this very incident about the Applebee's shooting has convinced them to NOT move to Florida. Between the lack of facts released ( they suspect a COVER-UP) about the Applebee's incident and the recent (almost daily) stories of shootings in Orlando, they intend to PASS on Florida. I suggested the Research Triangle in North Carolina or one of the Carolinas near a University.
........I could NOT in good conscience recommend The Villages or ANYWHERE in Florida. And besides Crime, there is another factor that they were NOT aware of (until I told them) - the summers are BRUTAL hot and outside activities are nearly impossible. Also, the predictions are for MORE heat for the whole earth for, at least, the next 8 years. I was a Boy Scout so I could never lie to them - maybe the Chamber of Commerce and Real Estate Agents can and will.
........They mentioned that the Applebees shooting could attract a nationwide audience because of the Racist possible component and the Police possible cover-up. It is possible that Al Sharpton has been made aware of this situation. And as of now, the DEAD black man's family can NOT afford a lawyer.

Wut? "Racist possible component"? "Police cover-up"? Care to cite ANY proof to those assertions?

And only you could turn a shooting @ Applebees into a Global Warming threat... :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[JMintzer]

And the Wild West towns often required you to give up your guns while in town. Probably because a lot of boozing and whoring were involved.

There was no "Wild West".

It was the fantasy of Dime Store Novelists and Hollywood...

[JMintzer]

Are you implying that those are bad things?:jester:

Don't knock it till you've tried... Er, um... Never mind...:p

[Taltarzac725]

You start by saying "there are not enough facts to say one way or another"...

Agreed!

Then... You have to go and ruin it by saying "And he looks trigger happy acting very quickly without actually knowing what was going on unless there are other facts."

So which is it?

I understand that you desperately want the latter to be so, but you can't have it both ways...

The killer did not have much information to go on unless there are other facts. Like if they had met before....

[JMintzer]

I was really interested in that also; "the J. W. wanna-be" thing, but the examples seem to all be far from the villages, and actually, are still open to interpretation. Remember the young man in the midwest, can't remember all details, but took a (lawfully owned) rifle to a gathering protest, ended up as THE #1 example of a terrorist, on every network day and night (Kyle Rittenhouse I believe was the name), a "horrible" example of our youth, and then, drip, drip, drip... the rest of the story turns out completely opposite of the nightly "news". Hopefully, a thoughtful and knowledgeable person, will (UN-emotionally) post the examples of the J.W. wanna-be actual incidents IN the Villages, and how they turned out ?

Don't hold your breath for an answer...

[JMintzer]

The killer did not have much information to go on unless there are other facts. Like if they had met before....

You have ZERO idea what the shooter knew or didn't know...

[New Englander]

Sounds like a lot of posters like the idea of the "wild west" coming to Florida and Bubble-Head-Land. And they SON'T seem to like the idea of having a GREATER Police presence. Sound like they are in favor of "do-it-yourself" Policing. I see this as a STRANGE dichotomy where factors are going in opposite directions.
........What I DO know is that just this morning I was talking with several people that were thinking about relocating here from up North. But, SADLY, this very incident about the Applebee's shooting has convinced them to NOT move to Florida. Between the lack of facts released ( they suspect a COVER-UP) about the Applebee's incident and the recent (almost daily) stories of shootings in Orlando, they intend to PASS on Florida. I suggested the Research Triangle in North Carolina or one of the Carolinas near a University.
........I could NOT in good conscience recommend The Villages or ANYWHERE in Florida. And besides Crime, there is another factor that they were NOT aware of (until I told them) - the summers are BRUTAL hot and outside activities are nearly impossible. Also, the predictions are for MORE heat for the whole earth for, at least, the next 8 years. I was a Boy Scout so I could never lie to them - maybe the Chamber of Commerce and Real Estate Agents can and will.
........They mentioned that the Applebees shooting could attract a nationwide audience because of the Racist possible component and the Police possible cover-up. It is possible that Al Sharpton has been made aware of this situation. And as of now, the DEAD black man's family can NOT afford a lawyer.

Al Sharpton only makes an appearance when there's money to be made.

[fdpaq0580]

You have ZERO idea what the shooter knew or didn't know...

Shooter knew which way to point the gun (away from self). Shooter knew how to pull trigger.

Actually, those are just guesses.

[JohnN]

Al Sharpton only makes an appearance when there's money to be made.

and only if Ben Crump doesn't beat him to it.

[Get real]

Being a racial arsonist is an extremely profitable business these days thanks to progressive cowards.

[Pairadocs]

As far as I know wrongful death cases are often taken on a pay it if you win basis.

And the Lady Lake PD seem to be doing things right and not letting the media control the investigation. They should do it by-the-book to counter rabble rousers like Al Sharpton and Tucker Carlson.

Yes, the family of the wrongfully deceased will not have to go far to find some of the best firms in the country on a contingency basis. Ladylake a very small town police force who do not deal with this type of thing weekly like cities, so good for them to dodge the Sharpton's and the Carlson's, and even the Nancy Grace types.

[Taltarzac725]

Shooter knew which way to point the gun (away from self). Shooter knew how to pull trigger.

Actually, those are just guesses.

They are keeping things under their hats at the Lady Lake PD.

[Taltarzac725]

and only if Ben Crump doesn't beat him to it.

Ben Crump seems like a good man. Shows up on my Facebook page on occasion.

[Taltarzac725]

Yes, the family of the wrongfully deceased will not have to go far to find some of the best firms in the country on a contingency basis. Ladylake a very small town police force who do not deal with this type of thing weekly like cities, so good for them to dodge the Sharpton's and the Carlson's, and even the Nancy Grace types.

Really do not care for Nancy Grace after how she handled the Trenton Duckett matter. Which also involved Lady Lake. His grandparents lived around there and Melinda Duckett killed herself inside their house in Lady Lake or near there.

Death of Melinda Duckett - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Melinda_Duckett)

[Pairadocs]

Don't hold your breath for an answer...

True, so I'll not hold my breath, but will hold on to hope, LOL, that the drip drip facts will come. After all, I was suspicious of everything, every aspect, of the "pandemic", not very hopeful of ever knowing the FACTS ! But, lately, all these months, years, later, the drips keep dripping. One thing can always be counted on, (nearly) all people can't resist "talking" (communicating) something eventually... examples; police or emergency workers who take personal pictures at the sight of fatal accidents if it involved a well known person, criminals who can't resist posting pictures of their crimes (goods, cash, etc.) on social media sites).

[Taltarzac725]

There was no "Wild West".

It was the fantasy of Dime Store Novelists and Hollywood...

I have been to Virginia City, Nevada many times and the Wild West was very much there in the 1800s.

[Fredster]

I have been to Virginia City, Nevada many times and the Wild West was very much there in the 1800s.

WOW, you must be really old! 😳
I couldn’t resist! 😂

[Taltarzac725]

WOW, you must be really old! 😳
I couldn’t resist! 😂

It has a lot of the same bars and the like that were around back then. And the houses, mines, etc.

[jimjamuser]

And the Wild West towns often required you to give up your guns while in town. Probably because a lot of boozing and whoring were involved.
True that. The best sheriffs took the guns. but, that was before the NRA.

[jimjamuser]

Being a racial arsonist is an extremely profitable business these days thanks to progressive cowards.
I learn so much here. Those "PROGRESSIVE cowardly" commie-loving wimps.

[Normal]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725 View Post
And the Wild West towns often required you to give up your guns while in town. Probably because a lot of boozing and whoring were involved. True that. The best sheriffs took the guns. but, that was before the NRA.

As long as they didn’t confiscate the all important “long gun”.

[JMintzer]

Shooter knew which way to point the gun (away from self). Shooter knew how to pull trigger.

Actually, those are just guesses.

:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[JMintzer]

Ben Crump seems like a good man. Shows up on my Facebook page on occasion.

He's a race baiting ambulance chaser... IMHO, of course...

[JMintzer]

I have been to Virginia City, Nevada many times and the Wild West was very much there in the 1800s.

Yes, it helps sell the "mystique" to the tourists...

[Rainger99]

And we have very different takes on Treyvon Martin and his killer George Zimmerman.

Apparently the jury also had a different take on the case. Zimmerman was acquitted. I wasn't at the trial and did not follow it closely but I would defer to the jurors who were there and heard all of the evidence. The jury deliberated for 16 hours before he was acquitted.

Trial of George Zimmerman - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_of_George_Zimmerman)

[Rainger99]

I think everyone should wait for the facts to come out before jumping to any conclusion on what happened and who is the guilty party. At this point, all we know for sure is that someone was killed.

[Taltarzac725]

I think everyone should wait for the facts to come out before jumping to any conclusion on what happened and who is the guilty party. At this point, all we know for sure is that someone was killed.

Good point. Very scant facts are available.

[Taltarzac725]

Apparently the jury also had a different take on the case. Zimmerman was acquitted. I wasn't at the trial and did not follow it closely but I would defer to the jurors who were there and heard all of the evidence. The jury deliberated for 16 hours before he was acquitted.

Trial of George Zimmerman - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_of_George_Zimmerman)

Zimmerman killed Martin. He went looking for a fight. Martin was just a black man in a hoody minding his own business.

[fdpaq0580]

They are keeping things under their hats at the Lady Lake PD.

I keep stuff under my hat too. My wife disapproves. She says it makes my head look lumpy. I told her that it isn't the stuff. My head is lumpy. Hey, it is what it is.

[JMintzer]

Apparently the jury also had a different take on the case. Zimmerman was acquitted. I wasn't at the trial and did not follow it closely but I would defer to the jurors who were there and heard all of the evidence. The jury deliberated for 16 hours before he was acquitted.

Trial of George Zimmerman - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_of_George_Zimmerman)

I followed the case VERY closely, as it happened a few years after I first received my CCW...

[JMintzer]

Zimmerman killed Martin. He went looking for a fight. Martin was just a black man in a hoody minding his own business.

Nope... Never happened...

Read the transcript of the 911 call...

Zimmerman followed the instructions of the 911 operator to a "T" and Martin was egged on to attack Zimmerman by his girlfriend. She admitted it in court...

[Taltarzac725]

Nope... Never happened...

Read the transcript of the 911 call...

Zimmerman followed the instructions of the 911 operator to a "T" and Martin was egged on to attack Zimmerman by his girlfriend. She admitted it in court...

Wrong! Trayvon Martin Shooting Fast Facts | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2013/06/05/us/trayvon-martin-shooting-fast-facts/index.html)

Transcripts of Calls in the George Zimmerman Case (http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/zimmerman1/zimcalls.html)

[Normal]

In Florida, you don't have to prove you felt your life was in danger. The state has to prove you did not feel threatened, or that you didn't fear for your own safety or the safety of others. This is so if you use your firearm in self defense. The case is already closed before it is opened.

[Bay Kid]

Nothing good happens after midnight.

[Number 10 GI]

Wrong! Trayvon Martin Shooting Fast Facts | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2013/06/05/us/trayvon-martin-shooting-fast-facts/index.html)

Transcripts of Calls in the George Zimmerman Case (http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/zimmerman1/zimcalls.html)

Twelve people, the jury, who saw and heard ALL the evidence vs what the media wanted everyone to hear. Naturally the jury was wrong! Lets do away with trial by your peers and have trial by the biased, profit driven media.

[Taltarzac725]

Twelve people, the jury, who saw and heard ALL the evidence vs what the media wanted everyone to hear. Naturally the jury was wrong! Lets do away with trial by your peers and have trial by the biased, profit driven media.

Twist twist twist.

[JMintzer]

Wrong! Trayvon Martin Shooting Fast Facts | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2013/06/05/us/trayvon-martin-shooting-fast-facts/index.html)

Transcripts of Calls in the George Zimmerman Case (http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/zimmerman1/zimcalls.html)

Miss this part? Where once the dispatcher realizes Zimmerman is following Martin, and asks "Are you following and tells him "We don't need you to do that", Zimmerman follows their instructions and say he'll return to his truck and wait for the police...


"Dispatcher: Are you following him?

Zimmerman: Yeah.

Dispatcher: Okay, we don't need you to do that.

Zimmerman: Okay."


And this part? Where the dispatcher asks, multiple times, where Martin is and where he's going? Any reasonable person would see that as a request to follow said person...

"Dispatcher: Just let me know if he does anything, okay?

Zimmerman: How long until you get an officer over here?

Dispatcher: Yeah, we've got someone on the way, just let me know if this guy does anything else.

Zimmerman: Okay. These ******** they always get away. When you come to the clubhouse, you come straight in, and make a left. Actually, you would go past the clubhouse.

Dispatcher: So, it's on the left-hand side from the clubhouse?

Zimmerman: No, you go in, straight through the entrance, and then you make a left-- you go straight in, don't turn, and make a left. ****, he's running.

Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?

Zimmerman: Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood.

Dispatcher: Which entrance is that that he's heading towards?"


Then this part

"Dispatcher: All right, George. We do have them on the way. Do you want to meet with the officer when they get out there?

Zimmerman: Yeah.

Dispatcher: All right, where you going to meet with them at?

Zimmerman: If they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the clubhouse. And uh, straight past the clubhouse, and make a left. And then they go past the mailboxes, that's my truck.."

And this?

"Dispatcher: Okay, do you want to just meet with them right near the mailboxes then?

Zimmerman: Yeah, that's fine.

Dispatcher: All right, George. I'll let them know to meet you around there okay?"

Now... Which part of that shows "he was looking for a fight"?

[JMintzer]

Wrong! Trayvon Martin Shooting Fast Facts | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2013/06/05/us/trayvon-martin-shooting-fast-facts/index.html)

Transcripts of Calls in the George Zimmerman Case (http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/zimmerman1/zimcalls.html)

And you're using CNN???

They had him pegged as a murderer form day one... Evidence be damned...

[Taltarzac725]

And you're using CNN???

They had him pegged as a murderer form day one... Evidence be damned...

He did murder him. Whether it was justified or not is another matter.

[Rainger99]

He did murder him. Whether it was justified or not is another matter.

It is correct to say that he killed him. In order to be murder, it has to be an unlaw killing.

The Florida statutes state:

782.04 Murder.—
(1)(a) The unlawful killing of a human being:
1. When perpetrated from a premeditated design to effect the death of the person killed or any human being;

If it is justified, it wouldn't be unlawful so it would not be murder.

[JMintzer]

He did murder him. Whether it was justified or not is another matter.

No, he killed him... The is a significant difference...

[affald]

The fact that even that ridiculous organization that calls itself the viIIage new$ does not even comment on the long violent criminal record of the man rightfully shot to death, speaks volumes of the non freedom of speech our press is pressured to follow by the powers that be.

If a typical villager were the shot man, we would know every speeding ticket, jay walking ticket received as well as what he paid for his house.