The Daily Kos Reports That Male TSA Agents Are Targeting Women.

[RichieLion]

Some commentators have been trying to portray the outrage of fliers against the TSA as having been fomented by politically conservative voices. Well that's about to change.

Daily Kos, the ultra-liberal website has started to take notice of the outrageous actions of male TSA agents in targeting women.

They say that only female agents grope females, but it's far from the truth. Reports are coming in from many airports of male agents pressuring women to allow them to grope them or they'll be greatly delayed.

Some women have submitted, and have been traumatized by the experience.

When are we all going to rise up against this?


http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/11/30/923752/-TSA-male-agents-target-female-travellers-(w-poll)

[graciegirl]

Richie. My private research on this subject, done at Thanksgiving dinner and lunches with frequent fliers is..........it ain't so bad.

Beats the hell outa bein' blown up.

Have you flown in the last coupla weeks?

It's all good.

[MrMark]

Some commentators have been trying to portray the outrage of fliers against the TSA as having been fomented by politically conservative voices. Well that's about to change.

Daily Kos, the ultra-liberal website has started to take notice of the outrageous actions of male TSA agents in targeting women.

They say that only female agents grope females, but it's far from the truth. Reports are coming in from many airports of male agents pressuring women to allow them to grope them or they'll be greatly delayed.

Some women have submitted, and have been traumatized by the experience.

When are we all going to rise up against this?




http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/11/30/923752/-TSA-male-agents-target-female-travellers-(w-poll)

How Silly! Maybe they just like it!

[Bogie Shooter]

I flew to Philadelphia from Orlando on Thanksgiving day and returned on Tuesday. I saw nothing different regarding the security checks. Eveyone moved along with out delays. These isolated incidents are being blown way out of portion......as usual.

[RichieLion]

Richie. My private research on this subject, done at Thanksgiving dinner and lunches with frequent fliers is..........it ain't so bad.

Beats the hell outa bein' blown up.

Have you flown in the last coupla weeks?

It's all good.


They relaxed the procedures over the Thanksgiving weekend just to deflate the outcry that was building.

People who flew on Thanksgiving weekend, for the most part, were not subjected to the new enhanced pat downs or naked body scans

Just read the first hand reports, Gracie; I'm not making this up.

The new procedures are not protecting you. They're already already obsolete and ineffective. You're being conned if you believe otherwise.

[RichieLion]

I flew to Philadelphia from Orlando on Thanksgiving day and returned on Tuesday. I saw nothing different regarding the security checks. Eveyone moved along with out delays. These isolated incidents are being blown way out of portion......as usual.


Read my response to Gracie. You were duped.

[RichieLion]

How Silly! Maybe they just like it!

You're becoming a great asset to this blog, NOT!!

[Bogie Shooter]

Read my response to Gracie. You were duped.

Duped.....what the hxxx does that mean?

[RichieLion]

Duped.....what the hxxx does that mean?

It means that if you're judging the TSA by their Thanksgiving Weekend toned-down searches, you don't have a clue about what's been happening and is happening again.

[golfnut]

if u don't like the protocol at the airports, take the train or drive, not sure there are a lot of other choices...gn

[RichieLion]

if u don't like the protocol at the airports, take the train or drive, not sure there are a lot of other choices...gn

I'm not flying until the scanners and gropers are gone.

You're welcome to the search of your genitals and the search of your spouse's genitals and your children's genitals, but I'll be driving.

Doesn't mean I like it or have to shut up about it.

[RichieLion]

The point of this post was to show you that it is not just DRUDGE REPORT, or FOX NEWS, or GLENN BECK that are outraged by the new search protocols at our nations airlines, but now the ultra-ultra-lefist website THE DAILY KOS is also having to acknowledge the abuses of the TSA.

ARE YOU LISTENING OUT THERE!!!

Hello..........hello........hello

[golfnut]

you're out there buddy, doesn't sound like you'll ever be flying again....gn

[RichieLion]

you're out there buddy, doesn't sound like you'll ever be flying again....gn

I'll be flying again when the scanners and gropers are gone, and our 4th Amendment rights have been restored.

"I'm out there"; ...................unbelievable.

[784caroline]

I may not be entirely in favor of what TSA is doing, but your comments deserve a "Best wishes..and goodbye"!!

[golfnut]

if i fly in the future glad to know you're not...gn

[bkcunningham1]

I don't understand how people can be so glib about watching their freedoms being taken away before their very eyes.

I guess responses to this thread goes to answer how so many of our liberties and freedom have been taken away. It is done by gradual attrition. I know in my life time I never expected to see a judge overrule the vote of the people. Do you suppose people at one time never dreamed something like the Federal Reserve would be created?

Did you ever imagine there would be a Constitution Free Zone, a 100-mile band around the coast and borders of Mexico and Canada where no constitutional freedom applies?

Just a few short years ago, I would have argued that the government would never take over businesses in America or that we would never be forced to buy insurance. Sharia Law being upheld in any of our courts? Not a chance. Guess again.

I don't care if this TSA incident happened six months ago or six days ago. To one person or to 100. It is wrong.

Now we just stand there while we are searched and our belongings are seized all in the name of safety.

[golfnut]

bk, when were you searched and your belongings seized...gn

[RichieLion]

I don't understand how people can be so glib about watching their freedoms being taken away before their very eyes.

I guess responses to this thread goes to answer how so many of our liberties and freedom have been taken away. It is done by gradual attrition. I know in my life time I never expected to see a judge overrule the vote of the people. Do you suppose people at one time never dreamed something like the Federal Reserve would be created?

Did you ever imagine there would be a Constitution Free Zone, a 100-mile band around the coast and borders of Mexico and Canada where no constitutional freedom applies?

Just a few short years ago, I would have argued that the government would never take over businesses in America or that we would never be forced to buy insurance. Sharia Law being upheld in any of our courts? Not a chance. Guess again.

I don't care if this TSA incident happened six months ago or six days ago. To one person or to 100. It is wrong.

Now we just stand there while we are searched and our belongings are seized all in the name of safety.

Thank you BK; I thought I was in the Twilight Zone with some of the reactions to the articles I've posted here.

I'm gratified for your serious response to a serious issue.

[bkcunningham1]

bk, when were you searched and your belongings seized...gn


golfnut, I was flying into Boston with my husband headed to Woonsocket, RI, about two years ago. At the first security check point, the TSA agent looked at my ID and boarding pass and said, "Today is your lucky day." I flashed him a big ole' smile and said, "Really?"

He said yes ma'me and before I knew it a woman with rubber gloves was escourting me to a special area. She said my ticket was selected at random. They were very matter-of-fact. I was very polite. They weren't rude or anything like that. I was in shock to be honest.

They let my husband follow me around. He half-jokingly said at the time that he loved it because after the check we went through a busy area with no more lines. The funny thing, as it was happening and my husband said we were together and didn't want to get separated, I handed him my carry-on.

Nobody batted an eye. I did it without thinking because I was taking off my coat.

I was put into the scanner and into a drug testing air poofing thing. I was also physically searched. The only belonging that was taken was a bic lighter I forgot was in my purse.

I was very nervous and very cooperative. I said then that I was happy to do anything in the name of protecting our country. Now, I'm seeing things differently with the manner the government is "protecting" us.

My father-in-law just flew to Florida from Virginia during Thanksgiving. Like many people, he said it went smoothly and it is all media-hype. His container of shaving cream was too big and was tossed.

[golfnut]

imo, u may still be in the twz, but thats jmo, not bk's...gn

[RichieLion]

imo, u may still be in the twz, but thats jmo, not bk's...gn

Sorry about your closed mind on this subject. I've done all I could.

[golfnut]

and that's the best u could do....gn

[Barefoot]

I think all of us would be uncomfortable with searches that involve unnecessary patting and groping. Hopefully the number of TSA personnel abusing their power is small, and they will be fired.

However, if body searches are required to eliminate terrorists and make the skies safe for flying, then IMHO, it's a necessary evil.

[RichieLion]

I think all of us would be uncomfortable with searches that involve unnecessary patting and groping. Hopefully the number of TSA personnel abusing their power is small, and they will be fired.

However, if body searches are required to eliminate terrorists and make the skies safe for flying, then IMHO, it's a necessary evil.

"if they are required" is the crux of the matter, isn't it?

You believe they are? You believe that rape victims have to be subjected to this in the name of "security"?

These procedures are already obsolete, so what's the point?

[bkcunningham1]

Watch this video. This is where commonsense needs to come into the picture.

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/149217

[RichieLion]

WOW, what does rape have to do with this thread, you are waaaaaaay out there richielyin, where are the admins when we need them...gn

You didn't read the article. It was the first hand experience of a rape victim at the hands of a male TSA employee.

Defaming me make you look like a smuck.

[bkcunningham1]

WOW, what does rape have to do with this thread, you are waaaaaaay out there richielyin, where are the admins when we need them...gn


What he means golfnut is to use a little emphathy and to think about how someone who had been raped would feel being subjected to a body search by a stranger. Or how about someone who had been molested and didn't like to be touched by strangers.

How about the guy with the urine bag thing (I can't remember what it's called) who tried, unsucessfully, to tell the TSA agent he had a medical problem and needed to tell him about the issue.

The TSA agent ended up pushing the bag and urine went everywhere on the man. He had to fly with his own urine all over himself. Commonsense could have solved this.

[golfnut]

the term is schmuck, get a clue..start another thread on this subject, you've got three going already.

we are talking about a few isolated incidents here, the procedures in place are to protect 100,000+ people who fly every day...gn

[Bucco]

This thread is fascinating to me.

I recall a few years ago all the flap about the wiretapping by the NSA and all the emotional calls about how we were losing our freedoms despite the facts of the issue.

Now this....something tells me this is pretty much become a political issue. One side is quick to condemn the NSA wiretapping and declare the end of all of our rights and one side says it is necessary.

Now, the side that defended the wiretaps is saying it is the end of our rights, and those that were appalled by the NSA wiretaps are saying it is necessary.

What a world we live in....if you read some of the posts they are so like, almost duplicates of what was said in the political forum to make political points.

I dont know what is right or wrong since I do not have all the information, but I said when folks were complaining how they were losing all their rights with the wiretapping (continued by the current IN's despite the anger) that the media is twisting all of us into a ball and have us chasing our tails. It now seems that they, the media, control what is reported and how and we all react to it with no private investigation.

There were and will be over reaches with the wiretapping and there will be overreach with the TSA.

Now that I have angered both sides........

[Pturner]

This thread is fascinating to me.

I recall a few years ago all the flap about the wiretapping by the NSA and all the emotional calls about how we were losing our freedoms despite the facts of the issue.

Now this....something tells me this is pretty much become a political issue. One side is quick to condemn the NSA wiretapping and declare the end of all of our rights and one side says it is necessary.

Now, the side that defended the wiretaps is saying it is the end of our rights, and those that were appalled by the NSA wiretaps are saying it is necessary.

What a world we live in....if you read some of the posts they are so like, almost duplicates of what was said in the political forum to make political points.

I dont know what is right or wrong since I do not have all the information, but I said when folks were complaining how they were losing all their rights with the wiretapping (continued by the current IN's despite the anger) that the media is twisting all of us into a ball and have us chasing our tails. It now seems that they, the media, control what is reported and how and we all react to it with no private investigation.

There were and will be over reaches with the wiretapping and there will be overreach with the TSA.

Now that I have angered both sides........

I've noticed the same thing. The video with the media personalities' kid screaming is a good example. Did he stage it for ratings? It showed the child only being touched on her lower legs and upper arms, not being molested. The mom was doing nothing at all to try to calm her child down. That's not how mom's usually act when they are not being filmed for what is ironically called "reality TV".

Like Bucco, I don't have all the information but have noticed a "fast food" junk diet of media sensationalism and unsubstantiated personal accounts but little dispassionate actual "journalism," or what used to be considered journalism.

[RichieLion]

I've noticed the same thing. The video with the media personalities' kid screaming is a good example. Did he stage it for ratings? It showed the child only being touched on her lower legs and upper arms, not being molested. The mom was doing nothing at all to try to calm her child down. That's not how mom's usually act when they are not being filmed for what is ironically called "reality TV".

Like Bucco, I don't have all the information but have noticed a "fast food" junk diet of media sensationalism and unsubstantiated personal accounts but little dispassionate actual "journalism," or what used to be considered journalism.

These stories are now being reported by all sides of the media. The "conservative" media was out in front on this story, and now the "liberal" media is catching up.

When does it become journalism in your opinion?

[Pturner]

These stories are now being reported by all sides of the media. The "conservative" media was out in front on this story, and now the "liberal" media is catching up.

When does it become journalism in your opinion?

When pertinent questions are asked, all sides are presented, "facts" are investigated and substantiated and issues are presented dispassionately.

[golfnut]

well said pt and bucco....gn

[RichieLion]

When pertinent questions are asked, all sides are presented, "facts" are investigated and substantiated and issues are presented dispassionately.

Is there a major media source where your requirements for journalism are happening? Who would have to relate a news story to you for you to give it weight?

I've read stories in many major newspapers from around the country, and can link them, if you'd like.

I've read them in conservative leaning papers like the Washington Times and liberal leaning papers like the Los Angeles Times.

I've read stories liked through conservative leaning websites like The Drudge Report and now stories printed on the left leaning website The Daily Kos.

There's thousands of words printed about what we've been discussing.

[Sally Jo]

If the government gave a hoot about security they would secure the borders, profile, etc.
I don't like to fly, anyway, so this is all the excuse I need.

[Pturner]

Is there a major media source where your requirements for journalism are happening? Who would have to relate a news story to you for you to give it weight? At times, I see examples of journalism as I learned it, hopefully practiced it and attempted in a previous post to describe it in a variety of newspapers, news magazines and online media. At times, I see articles in those same publications that lack journalistic standards. I enjoy scanning newspapers from around the country and English language newspapers around the world, as well as AP and other newswires, Fortune, Forbes, Financial Times and other news and business magazines. I read these mostly online. I also read commentary in traditional media and left and right blogs but don't use opinion pieces as primary news sources. "Somebody claimed that something happened," articles, without any independent verification or substantiation, don't appeal to me, regardless of where they are published. That might be an occupational hazard, as they say. Or at least what the occupation of journalism used to be. As I've said before, sometimes I can't even imagine what they teach in journalism school anymore.

I've read stories in many major newspapers from around the country, and can link them, if you'd like.

I've read them in conservative leaning papers like the Washington Times and liberal leaning papers like the Los Angeles Times.

I've read stories liked through conservative leaning websites like The Drudge Report and now stories printed on the left leaning website The Daily Kos.

There's thousands of words printed about what we've been discussing.

Hi Richie,
I see that you asked me questions in the first paragraph of your post that I'm quoting. I've answered in bold within your text.

[Yoda]

Do not believe Dailykos. They are a propaganda arm of the left. They are just trying to stir the pot.

Yoda

[Indydealmaker]

I wonder if the posts on this thread and this forum in general would be as vociferous and disrespectful if the posters were stripped of their anonymity.

[Russ_Boston]

Question: Unless you fly for a living and are worried about the accumulation of x-rays - Why not submit to the scanner? Certainly beats the pat down in my opinion. Maybe we have to forgo some of our previous freedoms in the name of safety? Given the choice I'll take the scanner. I would bet that 99.99% of TSA agents don't like the pat down either.

[collie1228]

I agree with Russ - bring on the scanner. I have nearly two million miles on Delta, and another million or so on American, so I'm spending a lot of time in line waiting for inspection by the the TSA and their brethren throughout the world. I have to say that other than the ridiculous rules about liquids (don't get me started), and the long lines, I've found the security measures to be relatively painless. I admit I've never had an instrusive pat-down inspection, but I have gone through different scanners at many different airports and have no problem with them (although that machine in Detroit that blows air in your face and through your clothes is particularly annoying). People who worry about someone seeing them "naked" in the new scanners need to get a life; and I believe the worries about health issues resulting from x-rays or other technologies are just excuses to complain. Let's use the technologies we have, and make them mandatory. Or you can exercise your freedom of choice, like RichieLion, and not fly. I'm good with that response, and I don't understand why so many people are taking him to task over his opinion on this.

[thistrucksforyou]

Do not believe Dailykos. They are a propaganda arm of the left. They are just trying to stir the pot.

YodaStirring the pot is good ,,,it brings all the best to the top...

[Challenger]

I agree with Russ - bring on the scanner. I have nearly two million miles on Delta, and another million or so on American, so I'm spending a lot of time in line waiting for inspection by the the TSA and their brethren throughout the world. I have to say that other than the ridiculous rules about liquids (don't get me started), and the long lines, I've found the security measures to be relatively painless. I admit I've never had an instrusive pat-down inspection, but I have gone through different scanners at many different airports and have no problem with them (although that machine in Detroit that blows air in your face and through your clothes is particularly annoying). People who worry about someone seeing them "naked" in the new scanners need to get a life; and I believe the worries about health issues resulting from x-rays or other technologies are just excuses to complain. Let's use the technologies we have, and make them mandatory. Or you can exercise your freedom of choice, like RichieLion, and not fly. I'm good with that response, and I don't understand why so many people are taking him to task over his opinion on this.

My wife is 72(still lookin pretty good) had a knee replacement 6 yrs ago. We fly frequently in US and Asia. She gets the hand treatment every time and has never thought that the TSA folks were impolite or insensitive, quite to the contrary. Until we get the fail safe technology for this process , we will all need to do our best with a bad situation. The whinning annoys me and many others to whom I have spoken. The press rather than responsibly reporting situations, throws gasoline on the fire for their own benefit.Some knee jerk reactions by the TSA are understandable in light of the risks involved in trying to provide safety and to avoid the ultimate civil rights breach(death). My son is a 747 pilot, his wife is a former flight attendant and my daughter is a retired flight attendant so we have some understanding of the problems airline personnel face.

[RichieLion]

Question: Unless you fly for a living and are worried about the accumulation of x-rays - Why not submit to the scanner? Certainly beats the pat down in my opinion. Maybe we have to forgo some of our previous freedoms in the name of safety? Given the choice I'll take the scanner. I would bet that 99.99% of TSA agents don't like the pat down either.

The scanners only penetrate the first few millimeters of the skin and therefore the entire brunt of the x-ray is confined to this limited area. It might actually be safer if this low dose of terahertz radiation was distributed throughout the body as some scientists are concerned about the long term effects of this targeted exposure. They cite a possible increase in the numbers of basal cell skin cancers, and scientists are examining possible side effects related to damage to the body's dna.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1290527/Airport-body-scanners-deliver-radiation-dose-20-times-higher-thought.html

http://www.naturalnews.com/027913_full-body_scanners_DNA.html

There are plenty of people saying the scanners are safe enough, but nobody has any long term studies to know for sure, and thus all who fly, especially those who fly often, are now officially guinea pigs for this study.

The kicker to this whole thing is that the scanners will not detect explosive hidden internally. They will not detect them if they are concealed in a body cavity, (a method reportedly used in an attempt to assassinate a member of the Saudi royal family in August), and they won't detect them if they are surgically concealed.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/11/02/1903708_p2/yemen-al-qaeda-insider-told-saudis.html

Our government is already aware of bombs that can be implanted in a women's breasts which are chemically activated with a simple syringe that a person who is supposed diabetic can carry on board.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/uk/Al-Qaida-hiding-bombs-in-breast-implants-says-MI5-/articleshow/5720333.cms

The fact is that the scanners already are obsolete if the terrorist entity is determined to strike. The sense of security that you are meant to feel is a sham.

[redwitch]

Having had melanoma in the past, I'm wary of any scanner, let alone a scanner that is strong enough to see through my clothes. So, for me, using the scanner really wouldn't be an option. The idea of being groped is positively nauseating to me (let's hope I never do something foolish enough to get me arrested). That means a full body search is not something I could easily tolerate. Puts me between a rock and a hard place if I decide to fly somewhere. (Thank goodness I have no plans to do so any time in the near future.)

I'm not convinced these pat downs, searches and scanners protect us in the least. At best, I think they give people a sense of security but little more. I might be convinced if I had heard of even one incident where someone was arrested at the airport for having an explosive device AFTER being scanned or searched. I haven't heard of such an incident.

I dislike the idea of losing a civil liberty simply to give someone else a false sense of security. As much as I dislike the concept of profiling, it really is the best method to protect planes and other public areas. There are some very specific guidelines that can and should be used when looking for suicide bombers (Israel has it down pat and has shared its knowledge). Sadly, they are not because someone might be offended, even though not all are racial (excessive sweating, talking to one's self, muttering under breath, praying are factored in). Common sense has gone out of the window. We not only threw away the water and the baby, we tossed the tub away as well.

[Barefoot]

My wife is 72(still lookin pretty good) had a knee replacement 6 yrs ago. We fly frequently in US and Asia. She gets the hand treatment every time and has never thought that the TSA folks were impolite or insensitive, quite to the contrary. Until we get the fail safe technology for this process , we will all need to do our best with a bad situation. The whinning annoys me and many others to whom I have spoken. The press rather than responsibly reporting situations, throws gasoline on the fire for their own benefit.Some knee jerk reactions by the TSA are understandable in light of the risks involved in trying to provide safety and to avoid the ultimate civil rights breach(death). My son is a 747 pilot, his wife is a former flight attendant and my daughter is a retired flight attendant so we have some understanding of the problems airline personnel face.

Excellent post, to me a very sensible approach. :bowdown:

[mitchbr47]

Some commentators have been trying to portray the outrage of fliers against the TSA as having been fomented by politically conservative voices. Well that's about to change.

Daily Kos, the ultra-liberal website has started to take notice of the outrageous actions of male TSA agents in targeting women.

They say that only female agents grope females, but it's far from the truth. Reports are coming in from many airports of male agents pressuring women to allow them to grope them or they'll be greatly delayed.

Some women have submitted, and have been traumatized by the experience.

When are we all going to rise up against this?






http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/11/30/923752/-TSA-male-agents-target-female-travellers-(w-poll)
Against what? I can report that I didn't see any of this going on at 2 airports over Thanksgiving. Unless you are there and saw it firsthand, or talked to the person involved.... Where do you find or hear
these tidbits? The next thing will be an examination of my lifesavers to make sure the colors are in the correct order. I looked at that website and never saw the information you mentioned.
We could buy 4th Amendment Underwear http://cargocollective.com/4thamendment

How about doing a survey of Villagers who were groped by the TSA during their holiday travels?

Also know the reliability of sources that are quoted and don't believe everything you read on the internet.

[Yoda]

Question: Unless you fly for a living and are worried about the accumulation of x-rays - Why not submit to the scanner? Certainly beats the pat down in my opinion. Maybe we have to forgo some of our previous freedoms in the name of safety? Given the choice I'll take the scanner. I would bet that 99.99% of TSA agents don't like the pat down either.

Our constitution protects us from such searches without probable cause. Do you wish to give up that protection? I don't. There is no need. Follow the EL AL model. Scan those whom have given probable cause. The purpose behind the scanners for all is political correctness. I hope you understand that.

Yoda

[RichieLion]

Against what? I can report that I didn't see any of this going on at 2 airports over Thanksgiving. Unless you are there and saw it firsthand, or talked to the person involved.... Where do you find or hear
these tidbits? The next thing will be an examination of my lifesavers to make sure the colors are in the correct order. I looked at that website and never saw the information you mentioned.
We could buy 4th Amendment Underwear http://cargocollective.com/4thamendment

How about doing a survey of Villagers who were groped by the TSA during their holiday travels?

Also know the reliability of sources that are quoted and don't believe everything you read on the internet.

I don't know what you mean "Where do you hear these tidbits?" The story in the article attached to the original post is a first hand account of the humiliation and physical assault of a rape survivor at the hands of a male TSA agent. I didn't make it up out of hand. If you want to discount her story, go ahead. I'm sure, at least for this woman, that it won't be the first time an assault victim had her experience being doubted.

If you had followed this story at all you could have read many stories of the new protocols at our nations airports were curtailed over the Thanksgiving Weekend in order to avoid the planned protests, or "opt out day" as it was called. In the following article there are quotes from major newspapers and individual fliers. Those who flew on the holiday weekend were largely spared.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/drudge-fought-the-tsa-and-drudge-won.html

As far as your mocking of the internet as a news source, I'd like to inform you that we are now in the 21st century and this is the primary source of news and news investigation and news research.

Just in case you didn't already know.

[otherbruddaDarrell]

Just curious if you have contacted your elected state officals or other public figures about your concerns?:cryin2::cryin2:

[mitchbr47]

I don't know what you mean "Where do you hear these tidbits?" The story in the article attached to the original post is a first hand account of the humiliation and physical assault of a rape survivor at the hands of a male TSA agent. I didn't make it up out of hand. If you want to discount her story, go ahead. I'm sure, at least for this woman, that it won't be the first time an assault victim had her experience being doubted.

If you had followed this story at all you could have read many stories of the new protocols at our nations airports were curtailed over the Thanksgiving Weekend in order to avoid the planned protests, or "opt out day" as it was called. In the following article there are quotes from major newspapers and individual fliers. Those who flew on the holiday weekend were largely spared.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/drudge-fought-the-tsa-and-drudge-won.html

As far as your mocking of the internet as a news source, I'd like to inform you that we are now in the 21st century and this is the primary source of news and news investigation and news research.

Just in case you didn't already know.

I'm aware. I question the sources, not the fact that the information comes from the internet. TV personalities, whether on the left or right are not journalists. Just about anyone can write a blog. 1.5 to 2 million people fly every day in our country. If 50 people felt uncomfortable for national security, too bad. As stated by others... use the scanner, be smart with what you try to bring on board, take a train, bus, or car. Stay home.


By the way, online probably isn't the primary source of news yet. I'm sure we both know people who can't eve turn on a computer. According to the Pew Report (http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/pew_report_2_percent_of_us_adults_rely_exclusively _on_internet_for_news.php), 61% of Americans get their news from online news sources, but local tv is still the most popular means. Local newspapers reach 50%, and 17% read national versions like USA Today, WSJ, or the NY Times.
Only 2% get their news exclusively from online sources.
One can find articles in print, online, or any other media including social networking to defend any point of view. We can even banter back and forth different points of view to no avail.
It is unfortunate if all the incidents that you site were true. Maybe a pat down should not be an option. Screen staff better. But that would be construed as government intrusion.

I would imagine there are far worse things. A homeless child died today. An unborn baby was aborted. Someone froze to death. Someone was murdered in St. Louis this week. Someone lost their home due to a foreclosure, a fire, or any other reason. An addict overdosed and died. There was an alcohol related car death that devastated a family. A mentally challenged person was abused. There is a lot of pain and suffering in the world compared to the issues discussed in this forum.

[RichieLion]

So all the reports that the terrorist entities are already ready and able to use internally placed explosives that totally beat the system of airport scanners and pat-downs are being ignored in all these posts.

The scanners and pat-downs are useless and a sham action.

[graciegirl]

Question: Unless you fly for a living and are worried about the accumulation of x-rays - Why not submit to the scanner? Certainly beats the pat down in my opinion. Maybe we have to forgo some of our previous freedoms in the name of safety? Given the choice I'll take the scanner. I would bet that 99.99% of TSA agents don't like the pat down either.

I bet they don't either. It isn't part of of our natural inclination to be so physically close to people we don't know. AND not everyone washes good there or there or there and even if they do, if you are nervous your deodorant can let you down.

Those folks working for the TSA are just folks like everyone else and it is a job.

It is a rule, a new rule that keeps us safe when we fly. No biggy.

We have to do this because our family loves us and there are people who are serious about blowing up planes.

That is the bottom line. Anything else is a waste of breath.

[Yoda]

Just curious if you have contacted your elected state officals or other public figures about your concerns?:cryin2::cryin2:

If you are addressing me, the answer is YES.

Yoda

[bkcunningham1]

If you are addressing me, the answer is YES.

Yoda


Are they lameducks? Mine is. BTW, who has authority over the Dept. of Homeland Security?

[saratogaman]

The manufacturer of those new scanners is represented by the former head of Homeland Security Dept. -- Chertoff.
The revolving door continues!

[Tbugs]

If RichieLion believes everything he reads on-line, well, 'nuff said.

I had family fly this holiday time from Orlando to Baltimore - no extra scanning other than walking through the usual metal detector - no patdowns at all - one female relative did get her palms swabbed for explosive residue - none found.

Female agents will pat down female travellers (not grope, Richie). Male agents will pat down male travellers - and they also do not grope.

Richie, have you personally had any of this done to you or a family member? Do not believe everything you read on-line. It may be just made up by Glenn Beck or Keith Olberman or Sarah Palin or Nancy Grace to get them some extra air time.

[RichieLion]

If RichieLion believes everything he reads on-line, well, 'nuff said.

I had family fly this holiday time from Orlando to Baltimore - no extra scanning other than walking through the usual metal detector - no patdowns at all - one female relative did get her palms swabbed for explosive residue - none found.

Female agents will pat down female travellers (not grope, Richie). Male agents will pat down male travellers - and they also do not grope.

Richie, have you personally had any of this done to you or a family member? Do not believe everything you read on-line. It may be just made up by Glenn Beck or Keith Olberman or Sarah Palin or Nancy Grace to get them some extra air time.

I've already addressed the fact that the TSA curtailed the use of the new scanners and the advanced pat-downs in anticipation of the expected disruptions promised by call for an opt out day and linked to the news stories. If your relatives traveled over the holiday weekend they missed out on the opportunity to go through the naked x-ray or the new groping pat-downs; sorry.

Also, groping with fingers and open palm is indeed happening and is the new standard protocol that you can research for yourself, if you want, and you're ignorant about the protocols or just lying for some unknown reason.

The most recent story of TSA abuse I posted came from the ultra left blogsite The Daily Kos. So you're also ignorant to the fact that the story is
beyond casting as a right wing story driven by conservative pundits.

There are multiple first hand accounts of male agents searching women. If you want to keep your head in the sand, it's your business. I'm not writing these stories, only linking them.

If you like for your body to be handled, and don't mind watching as your
wife and children are handled in such an invasive manner, go ahead and let it happen, and believe that it is keeping you safe if you like; I don't mind.

If you don't like the tone of this response, it is because you feel the need to belittle me and not just disagree with my opinion. Must you be so childish?

[Larryandlinda]

I've already addressed the fact that the TSA curtailed the use of the new scanners and the advanced pat-downs in anticipation of the expected disruptions promised by call for an opt out day and linked to the news stories. If your relatives traveled over the holiday weekend they missed out on the opportunity to go through the naked x-ray or the new groping pat-downs; sorry.

Also, groping with fingers and open palm is indeed happening and is the new standard protocol that you can research for yourself, if you want, and you're ignorant about the protocols or just lying for some unknown reason.

The most recent story of TSA abuse I posted came from the ultra left blogsite The Daily Kos. So you're also ignorant to the fact that the story is
beyond casting as a right wing story driven by conservative pundits.

There are multiple first hand accounts of male agents searching women. If you want to keep your head in the sand, it's your business. I'm not writing these stories, only linking them.

If you like for your body to be handled, and don't mind watching as your
wife and children are handled in such an invasive manner, go ahead and let it happen, and believe that it is keeping you safe if you like; I don't mind.

If you don't like the tone of this response, it is because you feel the need to belittle me and not just disagree with my opinion. Must you be so childish?

Well, since we posted the link from a PACIFICA (a left-leaning public network)story about the aforementioned ties to the scanning machines, we've more or less tried to let this die, but so many TOTV'ers seem to have lotsa time on their hands!
We don't, unfortunately, as we are still workaholics . We did have an opportunity to fly to Spain and Portugal with two 20-something offspring and a significant other of one of them. Lotsa connections, sensitive areas like Paris and Amsterdam. We were not among the 'lucky' to have the massage, the hair blow, or the MRI, and even left shoes on. They did have a field day with my bike tools (that got through all US connections) and did something extraordinary. Instead of confiscation, they got an armed escort to walk with us all the way to the plane where they stashed the 'contraband' in cargo.

What bothers us more than the pat or portrait is the waste of time and money. We do want to be safe and hope they find a better way - but we are simply not xray not pataphobic- kids, wife, touch and hug but do it fast, leave me my tools and her knitting and get us outa there.

And you Kosophobes, can you see through a keyhole with both eyes?
Take some time and see that there's good info in there. Telling people not to read something is not a good thing.
And Rich, we appreciate your passion for what you believe, for whatever reason - there is real energy and keep us posted. The lynchmob is very small, so don't worry - and here's something bizarre you might have missed.
It's from the internet.http://www.deadseriousnews.com/?p=573

Looking forward to our December parade visit next week!

L and L

[RichieLion]

Here's an interesting article that was printed in Atlantic Magazine by security expert and author Bruce Schneier that discusses the reasons that the TSA can't now back down on it's scanner and enhanced pat-down protocols and procedures.

It's also verifies my earlier stories that the TSA shut down these procedures on Thanksgiving weekend to foil planned protests.

He puts forth some interesting analysis on why the agency can not now back down on the enhanced pat-downs and expect people to instead go through the backscatter body scanner.

[Text of the article removed - Tony]

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2010/12/why-the-tsa-cant-back-down/67337/

[Chi-Town]

Thanks Richie for recommending the Daily Kos. I had never heard of it before, but now it's in my favorites just above the Drudge Report.

[Tbugs]

I wonder if there is something in the water in the Village of Bonita?

[RichieLion]

I wonder if there is something in the water in the Village of Bonita?

You're just a cheap shot artist with little capacity for intelligent discourse. What's your damage?

[bkcunningham1]

Thanks Richie for recommending the Daily Kos. I had never heard of it before, but now it's in my favorites just above the Drudge Report.

Chi-Town, there are many Progressive blogs on the Internet. The Daily Kos crowd is in a class all their own though, IMHO. Just one example of their mindset was the death of Tony Snow. The Daily Kos blogged their wishes thatTony Snow's cancer had been contagious and killed everyone at Fox News and every Conservative he associates with. The Drudge Report is right up there though. Keep looking, there are many other Progressive attitudes and blogs out there to get your info from.

[Chi-Town]

Chi-Town, there are many Progressive blogs on the Internet. The Daily Kos crowd is in a class all their own though, IMHO. Just one example of their mindset was the death of Tony Snow. The Daily Kos blogged their wishes thatTony Snow's cancer had been contagious and killed everyone at Fox News and every Conservative he associates with. The Drudge Report is right up there though. Keep looking, there are many other Progressive attitudes and blogs out there to get your info from.
One thing for sure bk, there are nutty bloggers on both sides that write hurtful things that would get their arses kicked for if they weren't hiding behind a screen name. I find myself using USAToday.com as my news source and The Villages Daily Sun for entertainment. TOTV is my local news source. I notice that people who watch and listen to political pundits all day and night are an uptight bunch. Life's too short.

[Pturner]

Here's an interesting article that was printed in Atlantic Magazine by security expert and author Bruce Schneier that discusses the reasons that the TSA can't now back down on it's scanner and enhanced pat-down protocols and procedures.

It's also verifies my earlier stories that the TSA shut down these procedures on Thanksgiving weekend to foil planned protests.

He puts forth some interesting analysis on why the agency can not now back down on the enhanced pat-downs and expect people to instead go through the backscatter body scanner.
[Text of the article removed - Tony]http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2010/12/why-the-tsa-cant-back-down/67337/

Hi RichieLion,
A bit of a coincidence. I just spoke with a friend who flew the day before and day after Thanksgiving. She said the scanners and enhanced pat-downs were being conducted. So I Googled "relaxed airport security during thanksgiving" and a couple of other search terms and couldn't find any articles. So, I logged on to TOTV to come here to ask you for any news articles about this and saw that you linked to a blog this morning.

Schneier's opinion blog to which you linked does claim that TSA turned off the machines at most airports during Thanksgiving. However, he bases this on a link he provides to an unpublished news release from a group called "We Won't Fly". The "We Wont Fly" release states that some subscribers told "We Wont Fly" that they thought they witnessed reduced procedures.

So, would you mind sharing with me where you got the information that TSA changed its security procedures during holiday travel. I cannot find any evidence and a friend tells me that she saw the enhanced scanners and pat downs used at two airports over the holidays.

Thanks.

[bkcunningham1]

Hi RichieLion,
A bit of a coincidence. I just spoke with a friend who flew the day before and day after Thanksgiving. She said the scanners and enhanced pat-downs were being conducted. So I Googled "relaxed airport security during thanksgiving" and a couple of other search terms and couldn't find any articles. So, I logged on to TOTV to come here to ask you for any news articles about this and saw that you linked to a blog this morning.

Schneier's opinion blog to which you linked does claim that TSA turned off the machines at most airports during Thanksgiving. However, he bases this on a link he provides to an unpublished news release from a group called "We Won't Fly". The "We Wont Fly" release states that some subscribers told "We Wont Fly" that they thought they witnessed reduced procedures.

So, would you mind sharing with me where you got the information that TSA changed its security procedures during holiday travel. I cannot find any evidence and a friend tells me that she saw the enhanced scanners and pat downs used at two airports over the holidays.

Thanks.

Just a quick search Cuz, but I found this:

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/11/newark_liberty_airport_controv.html

http://www.ajc.com/business/hartsfield-braces-for-big-752867.html

[Yoda]

You're just a cheap shot artist with little capacity for intelligent discourse. What's your damage?

:agree::agree::agree:

[Pturner]

Just a quick search Cuz, but I found this:

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/11/newark_liberty_airport_controv.html

http://www.ajc.com/business/hartsfield-braces-for-big-752867.html

Thanks Cuz. The articles suggest that enhanced screening was used during the holiday at Newark and ATL, with inconsistent accounts regarding to what extent.

[tpop1]

(or should that be my fingers???) ......thru 70 posts but I need someone to explain to me, why when we had a nice civil discussion about President Bush's visit here,
there were suggestions that it be moved to the political forum,
Yet I have not seen anyone suggest this thread

nor several others like it be moved to that forum.

IT IS POLITICAL in tone and has posters denegrating each others viewpoints. It not why this visitor comes to TOTV and why this poster does not subscribe to the Political Forum!

Maybe we need a way to filter posts that we don't want to see?
_

[bkcunningham1]

Thanks Cuz. The articles suggest that enhanced screening was used during the holiday at Newark and ATL, with inconsistent accounts regarding to what extent.


I must have misread the lede paragraphs: "The choice between a "virtual strip search" and a "grope" was strictly academic Wednesday for most holiday travelers flying out of Newark Liberty International Airport.

"The majority of Newark’s full-body scanners were idle throughout much of the day, depriving most passengers of the chance to opt out of the controversial screening procedure even if they had wanted to..."

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/11/newark_liberty_airport_controv.html


And this in the Atlanta Journalarticle: "...Many of the scanners at the main security checkpoint were roped off at mid-day Tuesday. Transportation Security Administration spokesman Jonathan Allen said travelers should expect the enhanced security measures, such as the scanners, to operate "just as they would any other day." He didn't address why the full body scanners appeared to not be in use Tuesday."

http://www.ajc.com/business/hartsfield-braces-for-big-752867.html

[Barefoot]

(or should that be my fingers???) ......thru 70 posts but I need someone to explain to me, why when we had a nice civil discussion about President Bush's visit here,
there were suggestions that it be moved to the political forum,
Yet I have not seen anyone suggest this thread

nor several others like it be moved to that forum.

IT IS POLITICAL in tone and has posters denegrating each others viewpoints. It not why this visitor comes to TOTV and why this poster does not subscribe to the Political Forum!

Maybe we need a way to filter posts that we don't want to see?
_


I often skip threads if they have titles that don't interest me. I'm honestly not trying to be harsh, but if you find the 70 posts on this thread offensive or rude, why not skip the thread completely?

I don't think this thread belongs in Political; it is a discussion about security procedures. And obviously it is a "hot topic" and many people are interested and commenting on it.

[Pturner]

I must have misread the lede paragraphs: "The choice between a "virtual strip search" and a "grope" was strictly academic Wednesday for most holiday travelers flying out of Newark Liberty International Airport.

"The majority of Newark’s full-body scanners were idle throughout much of the day, depriving most passengers of the chance to opt out of the controversial screening procedure even if they had wanted to..."

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/11/newark_liberty_airport_controv.html


And this in the Atlanta Journalarticle: "...Many of the scanners at the main security checkpoint were roped off at mid-day Tuesday. Transportation Security Administration spokesman Jonathan Allen said travelers should expect the enhanced security measures, such as the scanners, to operate "just as they would any other day." He didn't address why the full body scanners appeared to not be in use Tuesday."

http://www.ajc.com/business/hartsfield-braces-for-big-752867.html

Hi Cuz,
I see no reason to think you misread the articles. The quotes you pulled out seem to suggest that the enhanced screening was used at the two airports and that accounts regarding the extent to which they were used were inconsistent.

For example: "Transportation Security Administration spokesman Jonathan Allen said travelers should expect the enhanced security measures, such as the scanners, to operate 'just as they would any other day'. " Yet the TSA spokesperson "didn't address" why many of the scanners were roped off.

That struck me as... inconsistent. Perhaps it is I who misread. Or perhaps we're just splitting some hairs. :o Or perhaps it's Miller time (though don't hold me to the brand).

:beer3:

[bkcunningham1]

Hi Cuz,
I see no reason to think you misread the articles. The quotes you pulled out seem to suggest that the enhanced screening was used at the two airports and that accounts regarding the extent to which they were used were inconsistent.

For example: "Transportation Security Administration spokesman Jonathan Allen said travelers should expect the enhanced security measures, such as the scanners, to operate 'just as they would any other day'. " Yet the TSA spokesperson "didn't address" why many of the scanners were roped off.

That struck me as... inconsistent. Perhaps it is I who misread. Or perhaps we're just splitting some hairs. :o Or perhaps it's Miller time (though don't hold me to the brand).

:beer3:

Back in the day, I wouldn't have gotten away with that "iffy" writing. My editors would have had my head and had me on the phone until presstime.
Sometimes it Coors Light, sometimes it's Bombay Shapphire and tonic. But don't hold me to that either. Cheers!!

[Tom Hannon]

The Israelis are developing an airport security device that eliminates the privacy concerns that come with full-body scanners at the airports.

It’s a booth you can step into that will not X-ray you, but will detonate any explosive device you may have on you. They see this as a win-win for everyone, with none of this crap about racial profiling. It also would eliminate the costs of a long and expensive trial. Justice would be swift. Case closed!

You're in the airport terminal and you hear a muffled explosion. Shortly thereafter an announcement comes over the PA system . . .

"Attention standby passengers — we now have a seat available on flight number XXXX. Shalom!"

Hats off to the Israelis!!!!

[Xavier]

The Israelis are developing an airport security device that eliminates the privacy concerns that come with full-body scanners at the airports.

It’s a booth you can step into that will not X-ray you, but will detonate any explosive device you may have on you. They see this as a win-win for everyone, with none of this crap about racial profiling. It also would eliminate the costs of a long and expensive trial. Justice would be swift. Case closed!

You're in the airport terminal and you hear a muffled explosion. Shortly thereafter an announcement comes over the PA system . . .

"Attention standby passengers — we now have a seat available on flight number XXXX. Shalom!"

Hats off to the Israelis!!!!

:boom::1rotfl:

X

[Yoda]

The Israelis are developing an airport security device that eliminates the privacy concerns that come with full-body scanners at the airports.

It’s a booth you can step into that will not X-ray you, but will detonate any explosive device you may have on you. They see this as a win-win for everyone, with none of this crap about racial profiling. It also would eliminate the costs of a long and expensive trial. Justice would be swift. Case closed!

You're in the airport terminal and you hear a muffled explosion. Shortly thereafter an announcement comes over the PA system . . .

"Attention standby passengers — we now have a seat available on flight number XXXX. Shalom!"

Hats off to the Israelis!!!!

That would never fly here. We would be interfering with the jihad's right to take infidels with him.

Fly El Al.

Yoda