More evidence that Florida’s home insurance system is completely broken?

[jump4]

Insurers altered adjusters' reports; slashed Hurricane Ian payouts far below damage estimates. :ohdear:

https://wapo.st/3ZHqfhg

[Pairadocs]

Insurers altered adjusters' reports; slashed Hurricane Ian payouts far below damage estimates. :ohdear:

https://wapo.st/3ZHqfhg

Are we shocked at such dishonesty ? Mission control, we have a LOT Of serious problems. Some of you are probably very familiar with Herman Wouk's works. I think of the gathering storm; the period before WW2, before our U.S. involvement. So many factors in addition to the ones most often listed in history books. Age has advantages and disadvantages; as I look around today, a bank failure (1, or perhaps more to come ?), a history of government (that's US folks, not some vague entity with very deep pockets), when insurance companies, auto companies, medicine, becomes inextricably entwined with "government", when strange bed fellows become BFF's, and the leader of a country in a serious war goes on a Hollywood style tour and even wants to participate in the Oscars, when we are even uncertain if defending our national boarders is a matter of debate, and all that we have previously gained in race relations through the turbulent years seems to be sliding backwards at an alarming rate, when people openly, and sometimes even violently protest the very existence of both police and jails... ALL of these and more not mentioned here, make me thing about the SIGNS of the "gathering storm"... yet so few of the people we elect to lead us, from local to national, seem to have a grasp of leadership... kind of "blow with the wind". Not good. Voting takes a LOT of home work, much of it not easy ! Looking up the record of judgments of every judge to be voted on to "retain", is not an easy task. Checking out every name on a ballot to determine if their words have met their stated philosophy, morality, and goals, is NOT an easy task. Maybe we should teach a more in-depth understanding of what a responsible voter must do to be prepared. Perhaps this should not be something only mentioned in 5th grade once, again in 8th grade civics once ? Later on, in high school, assignments to do in depth research on a public figure (choose a judge, state's attorney, a president, or member of congress, presently in office, and write a research paper comparing and contrasting their stated beliefs and philosophy, with their actions in office. Some times these types of contracts are just too vague to our students. Students are usually just "taught" about the "right to vote", not much follow up or actual assignments.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Insurers altered adjusters' reports; slashed Hurricane Ian payouts far below damage estimates. :ohdear:

https://wapo.st/3ZHqfhg

Why I hate working for corporations in one simple article.

[kkingston57]

Insurers altered adjusters' reports; slashed Hurricane Ian payouts far below damage estimates. :ohdear:

https://wapo.st/3ZHqfhg

I was in the biz and worked as an independent adjuster just like Mr. Lee in the article. Had about 20 different clients including Lloyds of London. About 10% of our clients did the same thing to us as they did with Mr. Lee. None of these companies were Lloyds. This type of adjusting will cause significant problems for the insurance company. In cases like this, homeowner should hire a public adjuster and/or a good lawyer who handles these type of cases. Bet that the insurance company is going to pay more than the original adjuster's estimate.

Many times I had to bite my tonque as some insurance companies altered reports/estimates without my knowledge.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Many times I had to bite my tonque as some insurance companies altered reports/estimates without my knowledge.

That's when one becomes an enabler of corporate fraud, and it sucks when that's your job/trade. Yeah, i tried to turn in a person at work for ethics violation, outright lying, and although I didn't go formal channels, I told enough people and he finally left. . . but one person is way different than a whole industry and blatant, outright fraud.

And the whole industry is corrupt, and that is a whole bigger issue, impacting all of Florida and the mortgage industry, and the housing industry, and its better for the insurance company to go bankrupt than play us for fools. .

same with health care insurance with UHC, same behaviors with their internal medical reviews. . .

Inside UnitedHealth’s Effort to Deny Coverage for a Patient’s Care — ProPublica (https://www.propublica.org/article/unitedhealth-healthcare-insurance-denial-ulcerative-colitis)

so you love UHC stock price and believe in corporatism, or you believe in consumer rights and fairness and lack of fraud for people/corporations standing behind their products . . . one side or the other. . .

and yeah, the future is uncertain, always was and always will be, so one never knows when and where the next disaster will be, so insurance here along the coast should be expensive. . and florida should be expensive relatively speaking as the risk is not linear like the rest of the country, and healthcare insurance should NOT have a huge profit motive either. . or a near monopoly status and not be held to a higher standard with record profits and bonuses for deny coverages to maintain profit growth

[kkingston57]

That's when one becomes an enabler of corporate fraud, and it sucks when that's your job/trade. Yeah, i tried to turn in a person at work for ethics violation, outright lying, and although I didn't go formal channels, I told enough people and he finally left. . . but one person is way different than a whole industry and blatant, outright fraud.

And the whole industry is corrupt, and that is a whole bigger issue, impacting all of Florida and the mortgage industry, and the housing industry, and its better for the insurance company to go bankrupt than play us for fools. .

same with health care insurance with UHC, same behaviors with their internal medical reviews. . .

Inside UnitedHealth’s Effort to Deny Coverage for a Patient’s Care — ProPublica (https://www.propublica.org/article/unitedhealth-healthcare-insurance-denial-ulcerative-colitis)

so you love UHC stock price and believe in corporatism, or you believe in consumer rights and fairness and lack of fraud for people/corporations standing behind their products . . . one side or the other. . .

and yeah, the future is uncertain, always was and always will be, so one never knows when and where the next disaster will be, so insurance here along the coast should be expensive. . and florida should be expensive relatively speaking as the risk is not linear like the rest of the country, and healthcare insurance should NOT have a huge profit motive either. . or a near monopoly status and not be held to a higher standard with record profits and bonuses for deny coverages to maintain profit growth

I bit my tongue but vowed that the insurance company would have paid big bucks if case ever went to court. Unfortunately for me and others they were the client. Insurance company would have to show that they knew more about the damages than myself and I had 1st hand knowledge of the damages. An average attorney could have ripped up the DESK adjuster.

[TheWarriors]

Is the solution the insurance companies need to raise rates to actually be able to cover losses while still making a profit? Are you willing to pay more for this coverage? And if the insurance companies are making money hand over fist, why are so many vacating the business. As home values have soared, so have repair costs and rates likely have not kept up with values. We either pay more up front or have to argue when it’s claim time. And anyone here who thinks rates are high enough to make a profit should start an insurance company we can all utilize and save on our current insurance rates.

[OhioBuckeye]

It’s not broken, but I’m guessing you mean why are Ins. rates have gone up. Well I can tell you, Ins. rates have gone up all over the country. Yea, we can find another Ins. company that’ll give cheaper rates but I’m sure that cheaper company will raise your rates next year. It’s not broken, we’re just helping the ones that put in claims. We don’t think the Ins. companies are paying them out of their pockets, they would go broke! So the govt. thinks the economy is going strong.

[Boomer]

Are we shocked at such dishonesty ? Mission control, we have a LOT Of serious problems. Some of you are probably very familiar with Herman Wouk's works. I think of the gathering storm; the period before WW2, before our U.S. involvement. So many factors in addition to the ones most often listed in history books. Age has advantages and disadvantages; as I look around today, a bank failure (1, or perhaps more to come ?), a history of government (that's US folks, not some vague entity with very deep pockets), when insurance companies, auto companies, medicine, becomes inextricably entwined with "government", when strange bed fellows become BFF's, and the leader of a country in a serious war goes on a Hollywood style tour and even wants to participate in the Oscars, when we are even uncertain if defending our national boarders is a matter of debate, and all that we have previously gained in race relations through the turbulent years seems to be sliding backwards at an alarming rate, when people openly, and sometimes even violently protest the very existence of both police and jails... ALL of these and more not mentioned here, make me thing about the SIGNS of the "gathering storm"... yet so few of the people we elect to lead us, from local to national, seem to have a grasp of leadership... kind of "blow with the wind". Not good. Voting takes a LOT of home work, much of it not easy ! Looking up the record of judgments of every judge to be voted on to "retain", is not an easy task. Checking out every name on a ballot to determine if their words have met their stated philosophy, morality, and goals, is NOT an easy task. Maybe we should teach a more in-depth understanding of what a responsible voter must do to be prepared. Perhaps this should not be something only mentioned in 5th grade once, again in 8th grade civics once ? Later on, in high school, assignments to do in depth research on a public figure (choose a judge, state's attorney, a president, or member of congress, presently in office, and write a research paper comparing and contrasting their stated beliefs and philosophy, with their actions in office. Some times these types of contracts are just too vague to our students. Students are usually just "taught" about the "right to vote", not much follow up or actual assignments.




That’s a lot, especially all in one paragraph. Anyway, I read it all. About that bank failure part……..

I am wondering if all the “news” sources out there to choose from have been making their devotees aware of the fact that in 2018 there was a rollback of banking regulations that had been put into law in 2010 — known as Dodd-Frank.

Deregulation is coming home to roost.

It did not take long……

And yet, so many have been allowing themselves to be hypnotized into sic ‘em mode as they seem to revel in hateful rhetoric designed to push buttons, to point, and distract with things that will never affect their everyday lives — like deregulation will…..and is.

This bank thing is making my skin crawl.

“Unrestrained greed is not only bad morals, it’s bad economics.”

Boomer

Pogo was right.

[jimjamuser]

I was in the biz and worked as an independent adjuster just like Mr. Lee in the article. Had about 20 different clients including Lloyds of London. About 10% of our clients did the same thing to us as they did with Mr. Lee. None of these companies were Lloyds. This type of adjusting will cause significant problems for the insurance company. In cases like this, homeowner should hire a public adjuster and/or a good lawyer who handles these type of cases. Bet that the insurance company is going to pay more than the original adjuster's estimate.

Many times I had to bite my tonque as some insurance companies altered reports/estimates without my knowledge.
Thanks, a good post. Nice to know how a real INSIDER thinks.

[jimjamuser]

That's when one becomes an enabler of corporate fraud, and it sucks when that's your job/trade. Yeah, i tried to turn in a person at work for ethics violation, outright lying, and although I didn't go formal channels, I told enough people and he finally left. . . but one person is way different than a whole industry and blatant, outright fraud.

And the whole industry is corrupt, and that is a whole bigger issue, impacting all of Florida and the mortgage industry, and the housing industry, and its better for the insurance company to go bankrupt than play us for fools. .

same with health care insurance with UHC, same behaviors with their internal medical reviews. . .

Inside UnitedHealth’s Effort to Deny Coverage for a Patient’s Care — ProPublica (https://www.propublica.org/article/unitedhealth-healthcare-insurance-denial-ulcerative-colitis)

so you love UHC stock price and believe in corporatism, or you believe in consumer rights and fairness and lack of fraud for people/corporations standing behind their products . . . one side or the other. . .

and yeah, the future is uncertain, always was and always will be, so one never knows when and where the next disaster will be, so insurance here along the coast should be expensive. . and florida should be expensive relatively speaking as the risk is not linear like the rest of the country, and healthcare insurance should NOT have a huge profit motive either. . or a near monopoly status and not be held to a higher standard with record profits and bonuses for deny coverages to maintain profit growth
In Florida, insurance should cost more because of non-linearities. OK. Also because Florida is basically an island sitting in seas of record HOT water in the summer that bodes poorly with respect to additional KILLER hurricanes. Seems that recent legislation has benefitted the insurance companies making it harder to sue them.

[jimjamuser]

Is the solution the insurance companies need to raise rates to actually be able to cover losses while still making a profit? Are you willing to pay more for this coverage? And if the insurance companies are making money hand over fist, why are so many vacating the business. As home values have soared, so have repair costs and rates likely have not kept up with values. We either pay more up front or have to argue when it’s claim time. And anyone here who thinks rates are high enough to make a profit should start an insurance company we can all utilize and save on our current insurance rates.
Village people getting together and SELF-INSURING might just be a good idea and work well. I would support that. We just need some EMPATHETIC insurance expert to STEP-UP.

[jimjamuser]

That’s a lot, especially all in one paragraph. Anyway, I read it all. About that bank failure part……..

I am wondering if all the “news” sources out there to choose from have been making their devotees aware of the fact that in 2018 there was a rollback of banking regulations that had been put into law in 2010 — known as Dodd-Frank.

Deregulation is coming home to roost.

It did not take long……

And yet, so many have been allowing themselves to be hypnotized into sic ‘em mode as they seem to revel in hateful rhetoric designed to push buttons, to point, and distract with things that will never affect their everyday lives — like deregulation will…..and is.

This bank thing is making my skin crawl.

“Unrestrained greed is not only bad morals, it’s bad economics.”

Boomer

Pogo was right.
Deregulation USUALLY has unintended consequences. Without restraints, GREED will run AMUCK and hurt 99% of the population.

[JMintzer]

In Florida, insurance should cost more because of non-linearities. OK. Also because Florida is basically an island sitting in seas of record HOT water in the summer that bodes poorly with respect to additional KILLER hurricanes. Seems that recent legislation has benefitted the insurance companies making it harder to sue them.

Funny... There has been NO increase in the number of KILLER hurricanes hitting FL...

Go figure...

[wisbad1]

Are we shocked at such dishonesty ? Mission control, we have a LOT Of serious problems. Some of you are probably very familiar with Herman Wouk's works. I think of the gathering storm; the period before WW2, before our U.S. involvement. So many factors in addition to the ones most often listed in history books. Age has advantages and disadvantages; as I look around today, a bank failure (1, or perhaps more to come ?), a history of government (that's US folks, not some vague entity with very deep pockets), when insurance companies, auto companies, medicine, becomes inextricably entwined with "government", when strange bed fellows become BFF's, and the leader of a country in a serious war goes on a Hollywood style tour and even wants to participate in the Oscars, when we are even uncertain if defending our national boarders is a matter of debate, and all that we have previously gained in race relations through the turbulent years seems to be sliding backwards at an alarming rate, when people openly, and sometimes even violently protest the very existence of both police and jails... ALL of these and more not mentioned here, make me thing about the SIGNS of the "gathering storm"... yet so few of the people we elect to lead us, from local to national, seem to have a grasp of leadership... kind of "blow with the wind". Not good. Voting takes a LOT of home work, much of it not easy ! Looking up the record of judgments of every judge to be voted on to "retain", is not an easy task. Checking out every name on a ballot to determine if their words have met their stated philosophy, morality, and goals, is NOT an easy task. Maybe we should teach a more in-depth understanding of what a responsible voter must do to be prepared. Perhaps this should not be something only mentioned in 5th grade once, again in 8th grade civics once ? Later on, in high school, assignments to do in depth research on a public figure (choose a judge, state's attorney, a president, or member of congress, presently in office, and write a research paper comparing and contrasting their stated beliefs and philosophy, with their actions in office. Some times these types of contracts are just too vague to our students. Students are usually just "taught" about the "right to vote", not much follow up or actual assignments.
Your post is too long!

[OhioBuckeye]

Wisbad1, I agree, why people write such long comments. I never read because by the time I get half way through their comment I’m confused. I’m not trying to start an argument. But long comments get into to much detail!

[Blueblaze]

We pay ridiculous rates in the Villages because insurers are allowed to use those of us who live 80 miles from the nearest hurricane storm surge to subsidize the rates for people who insist on living on an island in Tampa.

If you drive a Toyota, you don't pay Corvette insurance rates. But buy a house in the Villages, and you're stuck buying fake insurance from a no-name Florida company, just to get the same rate they're charging some idiot living in a beach house at sea level.

Write your Congressman and demand that people who live on the beach pay for their own damned hurricane risks and leave us alone!

[kkingston57]

We pay ridiculous rates in the Villages because insurers are allowed to use those of us who live 80 miles from the nearest hurricane storm surge to subsidize the rates for people who insist on living on an island in Tampa.

If you drive a Toyota, you don't pay Corvette insurance rates. But buy a house in the Villages, and you're stuck buying fake insurance from a no-name Florida company, just to get the same rate they're charging some idiot living in a beach house at sea level.

Write your Congressman and demand that people who live on the beach pay for their own damned hurricane risks and leave us alone!

People who live on the coast pay 3-4 X more than people who live in TV. We lived in Palm Beach County and 3 years ago our premium on a 300K home was $4600. ouse was 3 miles from the ocean. In order to get that price, we needed to install hurricane shutters(10K) or impact glass windows and doors (24K) Suspect that it is now over 6K and our premium for a similar quality home in TV is $1200 and we do not need the shutters or impact glass windows.

[Blueblaze]

People who live on the coast pay 3-4 X more than people who live in TV. We lived in Palm Beach County and 3 years ago our premium on a 300K home was $4600. ouse was 3 miles from the ocean. In order to get that price, we needed to install hurricane shutters(10K) or impact glass windows and doors (24K) Suspect that it is now over 6K and our premium for a similar quality home in TV is $1200 and we do not need the shutters or impact glass windows.

So you only paid twice the Villages rate to accept 10 times the risk. That's exactly what I'm talking about.

I live in a concrete house with metal studs, 110 mph wind-storm-rated windows, and a 110mph-rated roof, 80 miles from the coast, and far from any flood plain. Why should my rate be any higher than the frame house in tornado-alley Tulsa where I raised my kids? I once literally had half my roof removed by a tornado, but I never paid over $800 to insure that house. My current house is built like a fortress but costs more than twice as much to insure, just because hurricanes threaten places WHERE I DON'T LIVE, in the same state .

[Pairadocs]

That's when one becomes an enabler of corporate fraud, and it sucks when that's your job/trade. Yeah, i tried to turn in a person at work for ethics violation, outright lying, and although I didn't go formal channels, I told enough people and he finally left. . . but one person is way different than a whole industry and blatant, outright fraud.

And the whole industry is corrupt, and that is a whole bigger issue, impacting all of Florida and the mortgage industry, and the housing industry, and its better for the insurance company to go bankrupt than play us for fools. .

same with health care insurance with UHC, same behaviors with their internal medical reviews. . .

Inside UnitedHealth’s Effort to Deny Coverage for a Patient’s Care — ProPublica (https://www.propublica.org/article/unitedhealth-healthcare-insurance-denial-ulcerative-colitis)

so you love UHC stock price and believe in corporatism, or you believe in consumer rights and fairness and lack of fraud for people/corporations standing behind their products . . . one side or the other. . .

and yeah, the future is uncertain, always was and always will be, so one never knows when and where the next disaster will be, so insurance here along the coast should be expensive. . and florida should be expensive relatively speaking as the risk is not linear like the rest of the country, and healthcare insurance should NOT have a huge profit motive either. . or a near monopoly status and not be held to a higher standard with record profits and bonuses for deny coverages to maintain profit growth

I fear we have created, or stood back and said nothing as they were created before our very eyes, not a house of cards, but MANY HOUSES OF CARDS in our country; banking, insurance, medicine, even a crumbing justice system.... not looking good !

[CoachKandSportsguy]

I fear we have created, or stood back and said nothing as they were created before our very eyes, not a house of cards, but MANY HOUSES OF CARDS in our country; banking, insurance, medicine, even a crumbing justice system.... not looking good !

all corporations are systems of three legged stools of customers, employees, owners
all three in balance and life is great!

but one at the expense of the others makes the corp system more tippy, more fragile,
and mgmt always touts owners priority (who they work for) at the expense of the other two. .
now define winning for a corporation , and its the last corp standing in any industry. . ie, the monopoly

and since history rhymes, and memories of the monopolies in history in real life, our parents and grandparents, have long passed on, the lessons are forgotten without proper historical studies, the longer cycle repeats due to human biases. . .

so we are closer to a big accident in both world wars, economic upsets/stagnations / and human suffering after an impressive 40 years of peace and prosperity, but forgotten dark periods. The future of the US rhymes with Europe's, as we have a similar political and economic systems.

[bimmertl]

all corporations are systems of three legged stools of customers, employees, owners
all three in balance and life is great!

but one at the expense of the others makes the corp system more tippy, more fragile,
and mgmt always touts owners priority (who they work for) at the expense of the other two. .
now define winning for a corporation , and its the last corp standing in any industry. . ie, the monopoly

and since history rhymes, and memories of the monopolies in history in real life, our parents and grandparents, have long passed on, the lessons are forgotten without proper historical studies, the longer cycle repeats due to human biases. . .

so we are closer to a big accident in both world wars, economic upsets/stagnations / and human suffering after an impressive 40 years of peace and prosperity, but forgotten dark periods. The future of the US rhymes with Europe's, as we have a similar political and economic systems.

That really clarified the Florida HO issue.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

That really clarified the Florida HO issue.

and this isn't a google question and how to answer forum,

[kkingston57]

So you only paid twice the Villages rate to accept 10 times the risk. That's exactly what I'm talking about.

I live in a concrete house with metal studs, 110 mph wind-storm-rated windows, and a 110mph-rated roof, 80 miles from the coast, and far from any flood plain. Why should my rate be any higher than the frame house in tornado-alley Tulsa where I raised my kids? I once literally had half my roof removed by a tornado, but I never paid over $800 to insure that house. My current house is built like a fortress but costs more than twice as much to insure, just because hurricanes threaten places WHERE I DON'T LIVE, in the same state .

If I were you and did not have a mortgage, I would go without wind coverage. Per your description chances of getting damages by a windstorm are very low. However there was a tornadic out break out about 10 years ago that caused heavy damages near Mallory Hills County Club.

[Flyers999]

If I were you and did not have a mortgage, I would go without wind coverage. Per your description chances of getting damages by a windstorm are very low. However there was a tornadic out break out about 10 years ago that caused heavy damages near Mallory Hills County Club.

Certainly is tempting. I would need to know the exact odds.
The chances of hurricane force winds hitting TV that would cause catastrophic damage to your home is very low, I believe. The chances of tornado damage, I would think, is even lower since there are only around 60 tornados that hit Florida every year (according to the google).
The danger mostly is time IMO. The longer you gamble l, the more likely you are to get burned.
The cost of home insurance, without wind damage, is still reasonable. What if I decided to skip wind damage insurance for three years? Them may be by that time insurance would come down.